3d20 – The Great Board Game War [GAME OVER]

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: Dragon of the West - Seems the sort to take Pai Sho way too seriously

I've lost my lotus tile. Most people think the lotus tile insignificant, but it is essential for the unusual strategy that I employ.

VOTE: Marashu

[Dragon of the West]

lotus tile

lotus tile? whats that?

For my Pai Sho game. Most people think the lotus tile insignificant, but it is essential for the unusual strategy that I employ.

[Dragon of the West]

V/LA until Sunday

I'll try to do a catch up tomorrow though. Realize I'm several pages behind

[Dragon of the West]

Okay, catching up. It's possible some of the fudged rolls had their alignment altered, isn't there? If that's the case I don't think role cops knowing the pre-game town roles is surefire, but I guess it could work in most cases

[Dragon of the West]

My pre-game roll was a town neighborizer

[Dragon of the West]

James you're going to get nowhere trying to sort Cyrus by his opinion on PGO.

I feel like I need to relearn this lesson every game with him

[Dragon of the West]

I don't understand

Do you not think it implies he didn't end up as town?

Either from the "can't answer this" when there was nothing to answer, or from the "yet" implying he has some impressive revelation to reveal later in the game.

Cyrus is just like that idk

Unfortunately true lol

[Dragon of the West]

btw james left a super big crumb how else would he know it was 7,7,1

Come again?
You assume I left a super big crumb, and proceed to reveal what you think is a super big crumb?
You think I bread crumbed a power role, where people have stated openly that the role shouldn't claim?

He thinks you guessing the rolls means you must be that role

[Dragon of the West]

Town Multitasking Voyeur
very weak

so t3 rolled . Town Multitasking Voyeur
very weak. maybe it got fudged by mod to make it better.

You haven't answered 107 nor 130.
Why is this?

is that better . i so think your not pro team but anti team and you are just siting here going look at me im so town.

I'm sat here going "look at me im so town"?
My points against you had posts backing them up. Can you back this up? I know you can't but I'd like you to try.
Not a single one of my posts has a hint of LAMIST. I haven't made an argument that I'm town to anybody once. The only time I've commented on my alignment, was my previous role, and the fact that I'm not certain town roles. So this isn't a point against me you just are throwing words around as a form of OMGUS.

I think James is town. Also, James you're wasting your time trying to reason with Cyrus

[Dragon of the West]

*Cakez read.
Yes let's have weed cake

t3 is pro team. this time around. i cant get a solid read on dw yet though this guy scares me its like he always acts the same no matter what he roles.

I think this comes from town!cyrus

[Dragon of the West]

are we even going to scum hunt or just mec talk all day.

I mean we could kill u and call it a day

Policy limming Cyrus is Nero's favorite past time

[Dragon of the West]

Yeah so I got very little on that read through.

Townleans: James, Marashu, Kyo, Cyrus, T3
We can just wait to see if Thor becomes more engaged later and if he does that's probably scum indicative
Cyrus is permanent VI in my mind, I don't really care about limming there until like closer to Melo unless it's just absolutely assured he's scum
Guess I'll see how cakez catch-up goes but I'm tempted to sheep T3 on his Cakez read

[Dragon of the West]

Last comment before I disappear again for a little while, I'm 99% sure cyrus62 didn't actually roll PGO or he didn't roll town.
JamesTheNames' explanation:
He at first just declared he rolled a 7 somewhere. I believe he intended to use this, to fake claim PGO at some point in the future. After people started to claim he had to insert the 7 somewhere, so he just put it at the front. I don't think he expected someone to realise it was PGO so early on, and hence the weird response when I outed it. I'm confident either a scum partner of his "rolled PGO", or nothing at all. He could definitely be lying about his role, and actually be the one who rolled a Mason-type for Dwlee99.

Cyrus definitely didn't say 7 with the intention to fake claim PGO in the future. It's just so unlikely he plans that far ahead to make a fake claim. James, I'm assuming you haven't played with Cyrus before, right? Stop trying to make him make sense, he never does even when he's town

[Dragon of the West]

Stop trying to make him make sense, he never does even when he's town

All the more reason to hammer then?
Anti-town is anti-town. Even if a person always acts in an anti-town fashion or a weird fashion does not change that fact.

Just feels like a wasted lim tbh. Otherwise I'd just lim Cyrus as the very first lim in every game I'm in with him because he's always anti town

[Dragon of the West]

like i want to believe's dragon's read because he's played with you before but I'm not convinced.

I'm not overly confident Cyrus is town, it's just that I've seen town!cyrus act totally anti town. He tends to get tunneled and entire day phases get wasted focused on him.

[Dragon of the West]

Stop trying to make him make sense, he never does even when he's town

All the more reason to hammer then?
Anti-town is anti-town. Even if a person always acts in an anti-town fashion or a weird fashion does not change that fact.

Just feels like a wasted lim tbh. Otherwise I'd just lim Cyrus as the very first lim in every game I'm in with him because he's always anti town

I suspect this is a policy matter we are going to just have to agree to disagree on.

You might be right. I'm willing to listen to why policy limming him every game is the right move, it just seems like a free mislim for scum when he's town though

[Dragon of the West]

Spoiler: @Dragon
In post 336, Dragon of the West wrote:
Cyrus is permanent VI in my mind, I don't really care about limming there until like closer to Melo unless it's just absolutely assured he's scum

if he's either scum or VI then why in the world would you save him for melo
In post 336, Dragon of the West wrote:
scum
Guess I'll see how cakez catch-up goes but I'm tempted to sheep T3 on his Cakez read

why's that

Closer to Melo, as in limmed before melo but later in the game. I would never want to let him get TO Melo.

Me thinking of sheeping T3 is because 1) this seems like a towny T3 2) I've never played with Cakez so I have no meta background there, and 3) there wasn't much about anyone's play so far that pinged me so sheeping a townlean of mine to create pressure feels like it might be the best option

[Dragon of the West]

@Dragon of the West, 2 things:

1) Why are you so determined to stop be pushing cyrus62? I'd understand a comment or two, but 6/13 of your posts relate basically to people wasting time pushing / policy voting cyrus62. I don't think this is AI I just find it really strange, it would be far too convenient for this to be a scum defence after all.

2) Why do you think an increase in Thor Ragnarok's activity would be scum indicative? I really had Thor Ragnarok pegged as a Jester, but nobody rolled it (provided people told the truth), and I can't think of a single case where a person wouldn't out a Jester existing.

1) You can push Cyrus if you like at this point, and you could be right that he's scum. I guess my thought process was:
- you seem towny, so I don't want fellow town wasting their time or tunneling on a slot for reasons that aren't AI for a given player that they're unfamiliar with. Figured I'd at least try to explain to you how he is
- in a selfish way, I wanted to avoid having to read the sludge that ends up resulting in a back and forth with Cyrus when someone tries to use reason or logic with him

2) The implication of Thor becoming more active in a later day phase is that they may have gotten recruited. Not necessarily rock solid but it could be an indicator based on what they've said so far

[Dragon of the West]

Looks like we have 10-2-1 by claims. It seems likely there are people lying considering the alignment distribution

I mean alignment rolls are just probability, the odds of not rolling a balanced alignment setup is pretty reasonable. Just requires the mod to change the alignment dice to make correct team numbers

[Dragon of the West]

If your role could have originally come from town voyeur multitasking, please claim that it could have - but dont claim your full role. If it could not have, please also note that it could not have.

For now I'll VOTE: RMH

My role could not have come from multitasking voyeur

[Dragon of the West]

Dragon is a part of the list because town/neighborizer/none is only one roll (the role die) apart from all of the other "town/[insert role here]/none" claims. So town Neighborizer, town pgo, town rolecop, and 2 town roleblockers - all of these claimed no modifier. Technically cakes with 2 modifiers could have had trolls that resulted in no modifier as well so he is included too

I wasn't sure if I wanted to claim the modifier because I wanted to think through if keeping it a secret could conftown anyone or bring some sort of advantage to town...if the original modifier was kept, it would likely be possible to confirm it D2. But if it wasn't kept we'd have a conftown essentially because we'd know the modifier is what changed...I guess the possibility of having a cult messes up having conftown, though; and now that I'm thinking about it scum could just not use the modifier to seem conftown...bleh. Also, your reasoning for late game claim and mechanics makes a lot of sense.

I originally rolled a Town

Doubled

Neighborizer. So that modifier should make the role pretty distinct from the others if it was kept.

[Dragon of the West]

the good news is no one got God farther

I guess my question is how do you know that

[Dragon of the West]

i'm so glad kyouko can do mechanics analysis AND scumhunt. a godsend. get you a girl who can do both
ill sheep kyouku on rmh if we cant get cyrus today

and now
i present my case
recent cyrus town:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87032
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87116
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=86803

also recent cyrus town, more similar to his play this game but noticeably different
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=86947

this is cyrus scum. On one hand, this seems to have been his first scum game after a hiatus. On the other hand, it looks more like his play this game than the others.
(actually- is this his only scum game so far?)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86913

i have other posts half-written but im tired after meta-ing again lol. ill come back to them later....

Redtea honestly feels a little fabricated. Might be because I haven't played with them before, but it just doesn't feel like genuine posting. Like the meta 'reads' are easy enough filler to fake as scum

[Dragon of the West]

Quick warning, waiting on mobile and laptop repairs, so my post quality will decrease as I'm posting from my PlayStation's web browser.

this is dedication

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: redtea

[Dragon of the West]

Dragon #596
gee maybe you should READ THEM THEN

My issue with your meta posts more specifically is that you say something really nondescript like "They're acting similar to this game I linked"...but don't expand on what is similar or what about the similarities is actually scum indicative or town indicative. I could read an ISO if I wanted, but that's not telling me what you're actually getting out of them. Part of this also comes from the fact that I don't like metadiving. I'll use my familiarity with players from previous games I've played with them, but I'm not reading through old games I wasn't a part of and didn't have to think through in the moment to guide my opinion on a current game

[Dragon of the West]

So if someone's going to do that, I want to see WHAT is similar and why they feel it's indicative

[Dragon of the West]

I'm gonna be honest, I'm not above policy limming Thor. Cyrus is anti town every game in the way that his play doesn't make any sense, but I at least believe when he rolls town he is

trying

to play in a pro-town way. Thor just doesn't gaf here and I don't like that. He deserves to be limmed for playing purposefully anti-town regardless of alignment

[Dragon of the West]

If you were actually town, 371 and 551 would narrow your role for scum, why would town do this? They wouldn't. 590 seems like a poor excuse for this.

Trying to flesh out this thought, why would scum do 371 and 551?

[Dragon of the West]

It seemed like to me he's just saying that he has a role that someone rolled

I'm saying my role isn't what that someone claimed and if my modifier also doesn't match up to a claim then we know someone lied because only one dice can be changed by mod in someone's role.

No this is why people weren't supposed to claim if something matches exactly - if scum rolled your role and lied about it they now know what you have

How would they narrow anything down though? If you were in a normal newbie game and said "I'm one of the 9 roles" it doesn't reveal what you actually are. The same applies here does it not?

No, I'll explain with a hypothetical. Let's say I was given a scum role, but I rolled town rampaging doctor. If I'm scum, I could lie about what I rolled. Then, if someone says "my role isn't on the list", I know that person is way more likely to be the rampaging doctor I rolled. If we claim "on the list" or "not on the list", it gives info to scum without giving anything equivalent back to town.

Also, I didn't understand how claiming it was not on the list would benefit scum until this Kyo post...and it seems you didn't fully grasp it either. So saying someone else is scum, especially for what wasn't clear or discussed until AFTER their posts you're saying are scummy, seems really hypocritical

[Dragon of the West]

Dragon crumbled Doubled in his first 2 posts btw - he repeated that quote about the Lotus tile word for word. This was before Dragon should have known about a multitasking role, so if we flip any multitasking scum, Dragon needs to go (assuming we've already caught cult)

Damn, that would've been a good crumb. I was just quoting my favorite show and Cyrus played into it by inadvertently saying the next line. Those two posts weren't identical, btw.

I'm now seeing the Kyo that reads WAYYY into crumbs that misread Dwlee all those times lmao

[Dragon of the West]

Specifically the Even Night Parity Cop, Multitasking Voyeur, and Odd Night Roleblocker.

Disagree with this because the roles could have been strengthened or had the alignment changed. It doesn't necessarily create conftown

[Dragon of the West]

It seemed like to me he's just saying that he has a role that someone rolled

I'm saying my role isn't what that someone claimed and if my modifier also doesn't match up to a claim then we know someone lied because only one dice can be changed by mod in someone's role.

No this is why people weren't supposed to claim if something matches exactly - if scum rolled your role and lied about it they now know what you have

How would they narrow anything down though? If you were in a normal newbie game and said "I'm one of the 9 roles" it doesn't reveal what you actually are. The same applies here does it not?

No, I'll explain with a hypothetical. Let's say I was given a scum role, but I rolled town rampaging doctor. If I'm scum, I could lie about what I rolled. Then, if someone says "my role isn't on the list", I know that person is way more likely to be the rampaging doctor I rolled. If we claim "on the list" or "not on the list", it gives info to scum without giving anything equivalent back to town.

Also, I didn't understand how claiming it was not on the list would benefit scum until this Kyo post...and it seems you didn't fully grasp it either. So saying someone else is scum, especially for what wasn't clear or discussed until AFTER their posts you're saying are scummy, seems really hypocritical

James this was @ you btw, I'd like your thoughts on how this relates to your Dwlee read

[Dragon of the West]

Ayyeee Gamma

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: nero why you voteing Thor he already town claims a pr.

I CC

Actually?

[Dragon of the West]

Dwlee what's your confidence on your James scumread?

[Dragon of the West]

your post is kinda dumb and it aggravates me.

Tbh Nero this was fair. I was just drunk and hoping something interesting would happen in this game lol

[Dragon of the West]

I don't think people are gonna join me on redtea before deadline.
VOTE: Thor
Is there a world where a no lim makes sense? Do we think odds of hitting scum/cult today is >50%? With such a high amount of PRs I'm wondering if it ever makes sense to avoid a mislim today and come in tomorrow with a bunch of results to play off of

[Dragon of the West]

Dwlee what's your confidence on your James scumread?

It's the strongest lead I have so probably about 60%

Hmmm...do you think him pushing NAI stuff as AI is more likely to be scum or just bad town?

I think his response to me saying he was being hypocritical was word vomit

[Dragon of the West]

Do you think word vomit is townie? I think more likely to be scum due to his reaction to my push. I think he has started playing way more cautious as a reaction to my push on him and hasn't done any real solving since my initial push on him.

I don't think word vomit is townie, no. That was a separate thought for why I think they might be scum.

I just wanted to see you progress your thoughts on if the NAI stuff could come from town. I agree with you that they've disengaged since the pushback and that seems scummy to me

[Dragon of the West]

I'd be down with voting Thor, James, or Cyrus if any of those end up being the only viable lims; I'm assuming I'm off about the no lim thing but I'm interested to hear what people think about it.

Cyrus claiming VT makes that a fine alternate to the no lim because he's either lying or we don't have to worry about limming a PR

[Dragon of the West]

i'm so glad kyouko can do mechanics analysis AND scumhunt. a godsend. get you a girl who can do both
ill sheep kyouku on rmh if we cant get cyrus today

and now
i present my case
recent cyrus town:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87032
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87116
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=86803

also recent cyrus town, more similar to his play this game but noticeably different
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=86947

this is cyrus scum. On one hand, this seems to have been his first scum game after a hiatus. On the other hand, it looks more like his play this game than the others.
(actually- is this his only scum game so far?)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86913

i have other posts half-written but im tired after meta-ing again lol. ill come back to them later....

Redtea honestly feels a little fabricated. Might be because I haven't played with them before, but it just doesn't feel like genuine posting. Like the meta 'reads' are easy enough filler to fake as scum

Dragon #596
gee maybe you should READ THEM THEN

My issue with your meta posts more specifically is that you say something really nondescript like "They're acting similar to this game I linked"...but don't expand on what is similar or what about the similarities is actually scum indicative or town indicative. I could read an ISO if I wanted, but that's not telling me what you're actually getting out of them. Part of this also comes from the fact that I don't like metadiving. I'll use my familiarity with players from previous games I've played with them, but I'm not reading through old games I wasn't a part of and didn't have to think through in the moment to guide my opinion on a current game

So if someone's going to do that, I want to see WHAT is similar and why they feel it's indicative

@Gamma

[Dragon of the West]

votecount 1.8

Dwlee99 (3): Marashu, ssbm_Kyouko, SirCakez

SirCakez (2): T3, Gamma Emerald
Thor Ragnarok (2): Dragon of the West, Robert M Hunter
cyrus62 (1): JamesTheNames, redtea
Robert M Hunter (1): Nero Cain
JamesTheNames (1): Dwlee99
Nero Cain (1): Thor Ragnarok

With 13 alive it takes 7 to reach a consensus.

(expired on 2021-08-30 14:54:57) to deadline.

Pretty sure Nero is voting Thor

[Dragon of the West]

Here's some of the earlier examples

Spoiler:

sooo... i also... did some meta can you believe it. flipped some of my reads. guess it pays sometimes.
except for Thor who has nothing to meta, and i have no read on.

kyouko: town or third party
t3: town or third party
sircakez: town-lean

megAz: very unsure
nero cain: very unsure
marashu: no idea
DotW: didn't meta, too early to form an opinion

Robert M: didn't meta, but scum-lean
jamesthenames: probably scum, but

could

be improved town
cyrus: scum

VOTE: cyrus62

It takes me all about 45 mins to a hour to read 25 pages in a book. So 9 pages would take me to about 25 to 30 mins with me going in deep and reading each line twice.

i don't know about you all but it takes me longer to read a mafia game than a book. Think you're in the minority my guy

Any way I see that we had a lot actively early but now it has faded and no ones even scum hunting at all besides James ,Nero red tea and my self.

you?????
lmfao no you're not. i know you can and you're not.
like i want to believe's dragon's read because he's played with you before but I'm not convinced.

I have always been a very quick reader how is that scummy

i did not mean to imply anything by that comment, other than that you have unreasonable expectations

i could act scummy if you like james everything i have done so far fits my town meta though.

How does that make you town?
How would I know this isn't scum you acting in what you think is your "town meta".
This isn't a valid defence nor a reason not to scum read you, it only increases my confidence because you can't come up with a coherent excuse.

hard agree also it doesnt fit his town meta afaik

but could be improved town

This is just for my understanding because I've seen it before but never actually asked what it means, what does "improved town" mean?

er, what i mean is based on your meta. your scum play had a much more imbalanced word count/substance ratio. Your current play seems more balanced, but you're also definitely participating more than what I saw in your town games. Based on that, either you're scum toning it down, or town improving your game, is what my thoughts were.

Red tea I'm hunting scum I just don't give town reads leans or nul reads nor do I give scum reads leans . If I think I found scum I vote them till I see a flip.

okay. I didn't say you're not giving reads. I said you're not hunting.

i'm so glad kyouko can do mechanics analysis AND scumhunt. a godsend. get you a girl who can do both
ill sheep kyouku on rmh if we cant get cyrus today

and now
i present my case
recent cyrus town:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87032
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87116
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=86803

also recent cyrus town, more similar to his play this game but noticeably different
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=86947

this is cyrus scum. On one hand, this seems to have been his first scum game after a hiatus. On the other hand, it looks more like his play this game than the others.
(actually- is this his only scum game so far?)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86913

i have other posts half-written but im tired after meta-ing again lol. ill come back to them later....

[Dragon of the West]

Have you played with redtea before? This is the first time I've played with them so I'm afraid I'm reading into their play wrong

[Dragon of the West]

Trust me, it'd be a bad idea to vote me out. I don't really know how to use my role but it has a lot of potential if I target the right person with it, just trust me on this one.

If you want to vote me out because you think scum will recruit me, fair enough, I get it, but otherwise it's a really bad idea.

Why would anyone trust you to use a strong role you don't know how to use if you're town

[Dragon of the West]

no, but tbh he strikes me as perhaps similar to The Other Thor

Idk The Other Thor but I'll go back to redtea if the votes are there. I don't like Thor's reaction to receiving votes

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: cakes your omging needs work. @ dragon of the west. i stated no one should claim anything and that i recommend every one claim vt also i have shown countless of times why vt can exists so calling me a flat out lire here is kinda of offensive.

Cyrus, this whole game is based around people lying. I don't really know what to say if you're so fragile being scum that you have to lash out. But my point wasn't that you were definitely lying; it's that if you're lying about being VT then I'm fine limming a liar and if you aren't lying then limming an unhelpful, anti-town VT is probably the best mislim we could have

[Dragon of the West]

Thor - by begging to be recruited you pretty much 100% guaranteed no 3rd party would recruit you because you'd be suspected. And you turned yourself into mislim bait so scum wouldn't waste a NK on you

[Dragon of the West]

I really don't know how to use my role and I'd love some advice for how to use it

If there's a neighborizer or recruiter, just talk to me now so I can get pointers early before I use it on someone I shouldn't

Also, why would you ask the neighborizer to target you? What if they're a town neighborizer?

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: unvote
Debating on going back to voting redtea

[Dragon of the West]

If there is a cult it isn't gamma

There is no if it was rolled.

what is this trying to say

Mega claimed their initial roll was a cult bus driver. That is why, in general, people think there's probably a cult in the game. The main scenario where there isn't a cult is if mega lied about their initial roll to lead us to hunting a cult that doesn't exist. No way mega outs the cult roll of they themselves are cult, so your slot isn't cult. With the assumptions that mega didn't lie and the cult portion of their roll wasn't fudged (which I don't think it would be given the setup specs), there's a cult

[Dragon of the West]

I don't really get the Cakez reads beyond the fact that they haven't been very engaged with the game

[Dragon of the West]

@redtea - I literally just went through your ISO and quoted the first handful of meta related quotes I found to give examples. And tbh I didn't like that it swayed gamma so easily.
Also, I told you I wasn't going to metadive. Me asking you what AI stuff you got from your meta reads was about me getting a better read on you and the legitimacy of your reads/metadives.
The "assuming I'm off" was me saying that I'm guessing I'm wrong that a no lim could be a good play for D1. I think that might of been an extension of a thought from my post before that one

[Dragon of the West]

Have you played with redtea before? This is the first time I've played with them so I'm afraid I'm reading into their play wrong

and to the left you can see scum covering his ass with the classic "maybe im wrong tho :/"
(update: this was the point in my catching-up I thought scum might be successful in pushing my elim. I believe that is what Dragon was planning for here with this post)

Nah, I'm just not sure of people's alignments before they flip because I'm town. And this being our first game together means I have no basis for how you tend to play so reading you D1 is that much harder. I'm trash at D1 reads in general and I don't understand how people tend to be so overly confident of reads this early in a game

[Dragon of the West]

Alright, I'm going to bed. Be back in ~10 hours to consolidate as needed
VOTE: Cyrus

[Dragon of the West]

My rampaging modifier probably got modified to odd-night so then there's an odd-night and even-night parity cop. I buy it. Who are we wagoning? We don't have much time

Either that or even-night just got switched to odd-night to make it a little stronger

[Dragon of the West]

Wait did I just accidentally catch Cyrus lol

Yes lmao

[Dragon of the West]

i fucking lied as a gambit for the 1st time it payed off i am town parity cop with no mod i can check him and se if he is green or red.

That's not even how it works. You'd have to check him N1 and someone different N2 and all it would tell you is if they're the same or different alignments

[Dragon of the West]

You aren't multitasking homie.
Kyo hammer at your convenience.
Oh wait...Cyrus you're at E-1...maybe just self hammer like you threatened?

[Dragon of the West]

i fucking lied as a gambit for the 1st time it payed off i am town parity cop with no mod i can check him and se if he is green or red.

That's not even how it works. You'd have to check him N1 and someone different N2 and all it would tell you is if they're the same or different alignments

mine said i can check 2 people each night.

Even if that were true, which it isn't, it would still just tell you if those two people have the same or different alignments. Not which alignment

[Dragon of the West]

and I'll do you one better I'll hammer my self to prove im town i have done this before and am not scared to do it again

Bet

[Dragon of the West]

That's a variation...I guess it's possible that's being used here but normal parity cop just selects 1

[Dragon of the West]

But that has nothing to do with multitasking

[Dragon of the West]

The biggest downside is that I like to ISO people after they flip. I'm not looking forward to cyrus' ISO.

May god have mercy on your soul

[Dragon of the West]

safe to assume Thor was recruited or voyeured, unless he's in a hood with James' second target

I dislike this assumption

[Dragon of the West]

The wildest part about all this is that cyrus was telling the truth about his role AND the CC would have caught Cakez' lie. I'm trying to figure out why mafia would know that Cakez' claim is a fake considering 3 people rolled Parity Cop.

I don't think this is true because there were 3 claimed parity cop rolls so Cyrus' role was just a modified version of Kyo's mafia parity cop and there could still be 2 other parity cops in game

[Dragon of the West]

Cakez claim could've still been a modified version of the even night PC

[Dragon of the West]

safe to assume Thor was recruited or voyeured, unless he's in a hood with James' second target

I dislike this assumption

Where do you think 3 kills comes from if not from the PGO?

Meh, you're probably right. I just feel surprised someone would target Thor after his claim. I guess the only other option would be a vig of some sort but I think that's unlikely

[Dragon of the West]

Cyrus doesn't typically lie, I believe he really did roll PGO and was maybe fishing for PGO. This together all but confirms that Thor is a PGO and is not teamed with Cyrus.

Thanks this makes sense

[Dragon of the West]

Dragon are you in a hood with Thor?

I am not

[Dragon of the West]

Mafia Rampaging Parity Cop has a rampaging factional kill that killed all 3 players

I find this incredibly unlikely. That would be 2 of the 5 roll fudges on mafia parity cops. I think modifying the mafia PC with doubled was giving mafia substantial power against 3P, no reason to have another PC switch alignments

[Dragon of the West]

That was a Rabaroo costume not a bunny onesie

[Dragon of the West]

Marashu - did you end up putting yourself through the pain of reading Cyrus' ISO? Was wondering if you got anything from that. I got like 30 posts through it before I gave up

[Dragon of the West]

revealed that he was doubled neighborizer, was hoping dragon wouldn't reveal the modifier so he could use it in a cc/to make his role look less good

This is why I was hesitant to out the modifier initially :/ Feel bad I outted him

[Dragon of the West]

Just did a little list. FMPOV game feels POEd. I think Dragon/Nero/Gamma should end it. Would like full claims from all 3, will start with

VOTE: Dragon

Because killing James confirms your roll was true and is motivation for scum!you to kill him

Maybe I'm naive but not gonna lie I wouldn't have valued killing a double neighborizer over the other roles rolled. Also, I think scum would assume that Town would true claim in most cases so if there were any lies it would mostly likely be from scum, which scum would obviously know about, so I wouldn't worry about fake roll claims as scum.

I don't like the idea of full claiming my role at this point because I don't think it's as simple as POE and there's likely 2 scum left if RMH was the reason for T3 and Cakez deaths

[Dragon of the West]

Also just realized that if RMH claim is true, then none of the deaths are particularly PGO related so I don't know how you're clearing Thor completely

[Dragon of the West]

Also just realized that if RMH claim is true, then none of the deaths are particularly PGO related so I don't know how you're clearing Thor completely

Hmm, I feel like I had good reason to think Thor was not partnered with Cyrus but maybe that was James not partnered with Cyrus. This is true of course though, Thor could be lying about PGO.

If you remember, let me know. I feel like I remember thinking Cyrus seemed like he could be partnered with Thor early on in D1. I'll try to find the posts that pinged me

[Dragon of the West]

well we know theres a cult bus driver .

i think any way lol

Just noticed this... Do we think Cyrus TMI'd Mega here?

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: thor

VOTE: Nero Cain

Nice try

VOTE: nero why you voteing Thor he already town claims a pr.

VOTE: thor

We're not killing thor, I have no idea why james would out that

Who voted you table champion we anit killing Thor since when he's had bad play left and right never even gave his dice rolls he just claimed what he rolled every one else gave a dice number .

It might have been this? But on re-read I realize I misread what Cyrus was actually saying and it just is nonsense so ignore me

[Dragon of the West]

Hi i'm SO busy I'm dying

but I want to play the mafias

and there it is. Multitasking crumb.

T3 certainly rolled Cult or some other scum faction + Multitasking Voyeur

I....don't buy this being a crumb or that T3 thought this was a multitasking crumb

[Dragon of the West]

I don't even make sense as a cyrus buddy

Can you explain why

[Dragon of the West]

d1 I felt like they were scummy for saying that they wouldn't vote SSBM and then they said that SSBM is either town or 3p. And now they're hard scumreadng her so eh idk.

Maybe this is too simplistic but I almost think scum!redtea would be hyper aware of not drastically changing their read on Kyo without more substance.

I also fail to see that redtea v Kyo change being a SvS progression so I'm confused that you're pushing the idea that they're both scum

[Dragon of the West]

so cyrus claimed to have rolled and you think he lied about what his roll was?

James pretty much gave Cyrus' a roll claim...Cyrus didn't claim his roll on his own, only after James said "I bet you're PGO" and Cyrus went "Aw geez great job now scum know there's a PGO"

[Dragon of the West]

Still think it's too early to POE.

Heel turn

[Dragon of the West]

or maybe we both misread a lil'? I'm asking if the theory is that Cyrus fakeclaimed his roll and had his buddy Thor claim it then why am I being pushed over Thor? Doesn't really make sense to me.

This seems too...nice?...to be the way town!Nero reacts to play he thinks is off

[Dragon of the West]

"why are you scum reading me"

just reread!

"why do you think im being obtuse?"

REREAD!

This is kinda fair tbh

[Dragon of the West]

Hi i'm SO busy I'm dying

but I want to play the mafias

and there it is. Multitasking crumb.

T3 certainly rolled Cult or some other scum faction + Multitasking Voyeur

I....don't buy this being a crumb or that T3 thought this was a multitasking crumb

How do you explain T3's play D1 if you dont think he rolled Cult Multitasking Voyeur and pegged Cakez as the CMV? Or if you do think that's what happened, then why do you think T3 tunneled him? What did T3 see from Cakez to tip him off?

T3 picks out really small things about people's play a lot, usually via meta, and tunnels on it. I'm not really going to tin foil hat to try and figure out why he had Cakez pegged, but I won't say it's impossible T3 rolled CMV. I just don't believe, if that's the case, that he thought Cakez was crumbing multitasking and that made him so sure Cakez was cult

[Dragon of the West]

Still think it's too early to POE.

Heel turn

I meant too early to massclaim and solve via POE using the list. I think tomorrow we'll probably be able to

Just did a little list. FMPOV game feels POEd. I think Dragon/Nero/Gamma should end it. Would like full claims from all 3, will start with

VOTE: Dragon

Because killing James confirms your roll was true and is motivation for scum!you to kill him

[Dragon of the West]

I think Nero and Kyo is SvT but I'm not sure which is which

[Dragon of the West]

Nero, if you're town here I'm sorry I'm being such a bad member of your fan club.

@Dwlee - do you have any opinions on Nero?

[Dragon of the West]

SSBM keeps doing this weird thing where she weaves in and out of the list. sometimes it's like she treats the roll list like gospel and other times she just sort of ignores it and revisions it. Like all of d1 she was cult hunting and then it became "well maybe there isn't a cult." and today her thoughts on Thor being scum are nonsense.

Not gonna lie, the way Kyo has treated the list as described here has bothered me. Certain things seemed to be matter of fact accepted like they must be true, while other seemingly identical types of information was thrown away to fit theories

[Dragon of the West]

DW what do you think about Marashu? We could kill that if you really don't want to do SSBM. Same q @ Gamma and DOTW.

I haven't really taken issue with Marashu's play. I don't think I'd go there today, much more willing to go Kyo.

I was torn on Gamma going into this day phase. Let me re-read their ISO, certain moments have made me think they're town but I can't really shake the feeling they might not be

[Dragon of the West]

I was torn on Gamma going into this day phase. Let me re-read their ISO, certain moments have made me think they're town but I can't really shake the feeling they might not be

Yeah after re-read I'm really meh on gamma's slot...I don't think anything D1 indicates they couldn't be Cyrus' scum partner and if anything their play seemed like someone not ready to bus D1 but realizing from the get go they might have to because it's Cyrus...I'd be inclined to say Gamma would normally throw Cyrus straight into a dumpster and grill him D1 as scum partners EXCEPT for the fact that Cyrus most likely got scums' best role to hunt cult and they wouldn't want to lose that D1.
I think Gamma and Kyo could be SvT or TvT but I don't see them ever being SvS. I could probably end up going either of those slots today but I'd like Kyo to come back and talk about literally anything game related that isn't mechanics

[Dragon of the West]

Is there any particular instance of me not following the list exactly that you feel is unjust?

Hang tight I'll find examples after dinner

[Dragon of the West]

Jk I'm gonna do it in the morning when I'm on PC instead of mobile

[Dragon of the West]

This is going to take awhile so I'll probably just post a few examples. I found these interesting because you're treating Meg's cult roll as factual here; even though you think they might be scum. That should have pinged you right here that the cult roll might have been a lie if you thought scum!meg was a possibility

I feel like you were taking my question to mean that right now when I posted the question that I was against eliminating Meg. That's not what I was implying and I wanted to clear that up. The more I've thought about it though, I doubt Meg is Cult, and I want to find Cult first, so now (but not at the time I posted 770), I am opposed to eliminating Meg.

Shit, just realized cult can bus drive james and the rolecop results will be wrong...

[Dragon of the West]

I have a feeling I'm going to just walk away from this ISO more confused.

I know this is probably just because it's stream of consciousness but the way you say mention Cyrus as town and immediately go in to who would be lying about rolls within the same sentence felt weird in hindsight

Cyrus also town here, considering only 3 anti-town rolls are claimed I'm guessing at least one of the liars about rolls is scum or cult that originally rolled a scum role

[Dragon of the West]

Looking back the vote hopping didn't make sense here. say gamma scum and vote -> vote James -> explain why gamma scum and should be voted

Spoiler:

I kinda just want to know if the cult is real. We're too fragmented. This is the most pro-town elim today I think

VOTE: Gamma

I could also do James because I can see Gamma/James as partners, and if they are, the cult is possibly a lie to distract from scum

No, I also think Cyrus or Nero could be cult as I've said earlier. Dwlee is still my top cultread but there is no interest in that and I figured the next best thing would be to eliminate Gamma and find out if the cult roll is definitely true if he flips town.

It could still be a true roll coming from scum, but there is a possibility it's a lie if Gamma is scum.

I also thought Thor could be cult but I was willfully ignoring it because he was clearly softing PGO. I was going to push him D2 or D3 if we still hadn't found the cult leader.

Cyrus feels like a safe enough elimination and if he did get cult his PGO play maybe makes a little sense. I mean it does make sense, but not for Cyrus I feel. If he flips town we know pgo is real and we only lose a VT as well so it's not all downside.

I also feel like Cyrus is townie and is maybe just getting pushed as an easy mislim though.

I dont follow the case on cakez. Lack of engagement, and sheeped me on RMH? Is that it, or did I miss something else? I'm not really TRing him but I dont remember him being on my radar as possible cult. I'll check my notes in the morning. I'll be around before deadline.

Oh eww the Cyrus wagon is James and Dragon no way, if scum think he's cult they can shoot him

VOTE: james for now. Not sure about this cakez wagon. T3 has been vocal about cakez being scum since daystart and that's pretty much all he's posting about. I'd vote T3 out today as possible cult here. No reason he wouldnt be cult here, and he's laying a but low. Says he's not motivated though so I question if that's why he's so bare today, or if he's bare because he's unmotivated to play 3P. Ngl I feel like T3 would enjoy cult leader so maybe hes just actually not cult here. The tunnel has been unusual though

I kinda just want to know if the cult is real. We're too fragmented. This is the most pro-town elim today I think

VOTE: Gamma

I could also do James because I can see Gamma/James as partners, and if they are, the cult is possibly a lie to distract from scum

the cult is possibly a lie to distract from scum

I mean Jesus fuck, you were cult hunting all day and someone rolled cult. Am I really the only one that thinks this is B.S?

Not gonna lie, it made me super nervous when I read it.

Like, I need to know your thought process kyouko.

My thought process is, if it werent for the existence of cult, I'd be townreading Dwlee and Cyrus, and wouldn't be interested in eliminating either of them today. I'm also thinking James is caught scum, and I didn't want to vote him still, even as sure as I am that he's scum, I didn't want to vote him because of the existence of cult.

I had considered early on that claiming they rolled cult is something scum could do to throw town off the scent, but didn't put much stock into the likelihood of that, until I realized that I'm most interested in voting out Dwlee, who would be completely off the table (for me at least) if this was confirmed singleball. So if scum did fake the cult roll to distract town, it is working on me. It's working on at least half of us I would estimate. I just won a game with Dwlee as town in ELO recently and I would really like to be able to work with him here if possible, so I

want

MegA/Gamma to be scum that lied about cult. I

want

to believe there isn't a cult, and if I can flip Gamma and see he's red, I can convince myself to work with Dwlee.

[Dragon of the West]

Sorry Nero, my heart's not really in a Kyo lim. Like there are some things from their iso I don't like but it's not enough. I think Gamma is where I feel most strongly about rn VOTE: Gamma

[Dragon of the West]

@ DOTW, Gamma Why did you stop scumreading redtea?

Idk, they're still south of null but I felt like I wasn't getting any traction there

[Dragon of the West]

I'll claim first in massclaim tomorrow so I'll be locked in before any results on me

I thought tomorrow was only massclaim if we mislimmed/couldn't find cult? We've got 1 scum and the CL...I don't see a reason to massclaim D3

[Dragon of the West]

I actually think I prefer a Thor elim over a Gamma claim at this point. VOTE: Thor

Can we at least get a gamma claim first? We aren't getting much new info from a Thor lim right now if he flips green

[Dragon of the West]

DotW you should check the n1 flips again

What do we think the starting setup was? As I understand it, RMH claimed one shot. If there end up being multiple NKs tonight then we can assess that tomorrow but I don't think we should be assuming mass claim tomorrow. Even if we assume two people rolled cult so one got rolled to 3rd party:

T/S/C/3P
D1: 9/2/1/1 or 8/3/1/1?
D2: 7/1/0/1 or 6/2/0/1?
D3 on mislim: 5/1/0/1 or 4/2/0/1

Am I off on this? Or do we think it's likely there's a second NK?

[Dragon of the West]

Right but what are the odds it has a NK? or that it wasn't fudged? I'm unsure if T3's roll was actually CMV or fudged into Cult

[Dragon of the West]

Btw, I'm fine with saying we need to massclaim if there are 2 town deaths tonight but I don't want us going into tomorrow with the strategy of "tomorrow is def massclaim"

[Dragon of the West]

Culting resolves after NKs so it was dead for good anyways

[Dragon of the West]

So Gamma's roleblocker would have come from RMH, right? Just went back to check the list and Thor claimed he rolled odd night roleblocker which T3 flipped

[Dragon of the West]

Alright...I don't think Gamma is scum assuming no one comes forth with a CC unless RMH and Gamma are scum partners which seems unlikely. If Gamma was a scum roleblocker, I feel like they would have targeted the suspected doubled vig with the roleblocker on N1 and tried to kill cult. Gamma clearly thought Cakez was scummy D1, from scum perspective that would mean cult but from town perspective they could only roleblock so that's what they would do

[Dragon of the West]

If Thor's really off the table, then I propose this:

tonight I will target Thor

. I encourage at least one other person to do so as well. If I'm the only death and at least one other person did target him, then Thor was lying.

Assuming you're a weak PR and town...this could actually be a good move if we don't lim Thor

[Dragon of the West]

UNVOTE:

[Dragon of the West]

If Thor's really off the table, then I propose this:

tonight I will target Thor

. I encourage at least one other person to do so as well. If I'm the only death and at least one other person did target him, then Thor was lying.

Assuming you're a weak PR and town...this could actually be a good move if we don't lim Thor

Except I don't think a second person should target Thor....
Hm I have to think about this

[Dragon of the West]

I think that ^ was hammer

[Dragon of the West]

Why would Marashu offer to target Thor N2 with that role? I assumed he was the even night tracker or something. I'm assuming he was lying about being willing to target there, I just don't know why

[Dragon of the West]

I mean I'm gonna go right here I think. Does anyone have meaningful results?
VOTE: Kyo

[Dragon of the West]

Updated and fixed list, in chronological order:

These are the current roll claims, who made them, and the post they were made in:
Ssbm_Kyouko - [13, 8, 1] Mafia Parity Cop with no modification - 25
Dwlee99 - [12, 8, 14] Town Parity Cop with a

Rampaging

modication - 34
Marashu - [1-12, 8, 7] Town Parity Cop with an Even-Night modification - 37
MegAzumarill - [19, 17, 20] Cult Bus Driver with a Reroll Twice modification - 57
JamesTheNames - [6, 10, 7] Town Tracker with an Even-Night modification - 64
Cyrus62 - [7, 7, 1] Town Paranoid Gun Owner with no modification - 72
T3 - [1-12, 14, 5] Town Voyeur with a Multitasking modification - 139
Thor Ragnarok - [1-12, 19, ?] Town Roleblocker with an unknown modification - 167
Redtea - [14, 6, 20] Mafia Fruit Vendor with a Reroll Twice modification - 171
Nero Cain - [1-12, 9, ?] Town Rolecop with an unknown Modification - 226
SirCakez - [1-12, 9, 20] Town Rolecop with a Reroll Twice modication - 268
Dragon of the West - [1-12, 5, ?] Town Neighborizer with an unknown modification - 322
Robert M Hunter - [2, 19, 3] Town Roleblocker with no modification - 344

Quoting so I don't have to keep searching it

[Dragon of the West]

I'll be back later tonight or tomorrow morning to really dive into this but I'm with Dwlee that I don't think role cops should be claiming first

[Dragon of the West]

So I have a kind of idea...what if people claimed their targets each night but not their roles? It would limit fake claims later without revealing actual details until it was appropriate

[Dragon of the West]

Whilst I’d like if more people would vote kyouko beyond that I feel like there’s not much for me to say rn

I don’t mind getting eliminated at some point but why not kyouko?

I trust Kyouko’s claim

Gamma what makes you trust Kyo's claim at this stage when pretty much until the end of the day yesterday you were looking to lim there?

[Dragon of the West]

UNVOTE:

[Dragon of the West]

Redtea - while we wait for Nero can you tell me why you targeted him vs someone else?

[Dragon of the West]

Whilst I’d like if more people would vote kyouko beyond that I feel like there’s not much for me to say rn

I don’t mind getting eliminated at some point but why not kyouko?

I trust Kyouko’s claim

Gamma what makes you trust Kyo's claim at this stage when pretty much until the end of the day yesterday you were looking to lim there?

I actually kinda caught hints of kyouko being a tracker when she was planning NAs

Did you roleblock her last night?

[Dragon of the West]

Nero does that mean you got No Result on your N2 action?

[Dragon of the West]

Rampaging claim involves the players that targeted his target also receiving fruit

I don't think there's a world where mafia fruit vendor uses it's action after the role being outed D1

[Dragon of the West]

I also would like any other roleblocker to claim right now. I'm assuming there isn't one beyond Gamma and T3, and tbh I don't think Gamma would lie about their role with people claiming they rolled role cops so they probably are a role blocker even if scum

[Dragon of the West]

No one vote yet until people out targets and/or results

[Dragon of the West]

We can just kill Nero then

Need to do numbers on that, not sure if it makes sense for SK to kill scum

[Dragon of the West]

I feel like you shouldn't just jump to "we can just kill Nero" if part of your plan's resolution might involve the 3P helping the town wincon

[Dragon of the West]

What redtea is claiming my role isn't true so either he's just scum and lying or he was bussed. I'm an even night parity cop that targeted Marashu n2.

Why did you target Marashu

[Dragon of the West]

So technically, with no other claims, these 2 roles can both exist and be town if Dwlee's role was fudged into Town Even-Night Parity Cop, and Marashu's was fudged into Town Even-Night Rolecop

This isn't the only possibility. Nero's roll could be true and be fudged from ugly to even night for Redtea's claim

[Dragon of the West]

@Gamma - what are your modifiers

[Dragon of the West]

Oh and while you're at it confirm you targeted RMH

[Dragon of the West]

One of Kyo or Gamma is scum

[Dragon of the West]

Without CC I think I trust Nero's claim cause it's on the list from flipped town.

I feel like it's possible, but that also means Nero's roll hasn't been claimed directly...so Nero's roll would have to be the one Redtea is claiming

[Dragon of the West]

I'm town Rampaging Parity cop. I targeted Kyo both nights. N1 she got no visitors. N2 she had one visitor visible to me, and that visitor had a different alignment than Kyo. Kyo is claiming she was roleblocked. Obviously if that's a lie, she's scum. If that visitor was Mara, then Kyo is scum because Mara flipped town. If that visitor was Gamma, then gamma is scum because they're the only other roleblocker and they're lying about targeting RMH.

The possibility of a bus driver muddies things, but I think it's most likely that Gamma is scum and lied about being a bus driver. Even if there's a bus driver, we effectively have 2 1v1s. Redtea vs Nero and Gamma vs Kyo and the bus driver couldn't have swapped people in a way that makes both of these 1v1s TvT. I think flipping Gamma is the correct first move because that will help us confirm the existence of a bus driver. If they flip town, then I think it's most likely Kyo is scum.
But I also think Gamma & Nero make the most sense as remaining scum partners

[Dragon of the West]

I’m 4 shot, and yes I targeted RMH last night

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma is scum and lied about

being

rolling

bus driver.

EBWOP

[Dragon of the West]

Honestly if Gamma flips red it doesn't clear Kyo either...because Mara could have still been the one to target Kyo...I thought Kyo was mega scummy for derailing the Gamma wagon yesterday and turned it into a Thor mislim. I wonder if Mara thought the same thing and used his roleblock on Kyo

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma Emerald-4x roleblocker
ssbm_Kyouko-even night tracker
Dwlee99-complex jailkeeper
Nero Cain-even night parity cop
Robert M Hunter-1x vig
Dragon of the West-rampaging parity cop
redtea-even night rolecop

Putting it together with rolls:
Gamma - Cult Multitasking Bus Driver, unconfirmed
Kyo - Mafia parity cop, fudged/confirmed
Dwlee - rampaging parity cop, confirmed
Nero - ugly rolecop, fudged/claimed
RMH - 1d4 roleblocker, claimed
DotW - Doubled neighborizer, confirmed
Redtea - Mafia fruit vendor, unconfirmed

[Dragon of the West]

Well Gamma's role is 4-shot and RMH claimed no modifiers.

Oh hm maybe Kyo is a better vote cause the roleblock could have been Marashu?

I think the bus driver messiness means it makes sense to go Gamma first

Pedit: if we flip Gamma and he's town then Kyo is scum unless bus driver got her N2

[Dragon of the West]

A scum flip either way doesn’t resolve the 1v1 tbh

This is true but it also can come from scum to make sure a mislim is left on the table if it's TvS and they're limmed first

[Dragon of the West]

If bus driver and roleblock then either the 3p role is a combined roleblocker bus driver (not the case) or two people would have visited Kyo, not one. So there wasn't any bus driving.

If Mara got targeted by bus driver then it'd fuck up a TvT interaction because I only see who visited Kyo, not who visited the people that visited Kyo

[Dragon of the West]

But in that scenario, neither of them are guaranteed to be scum...but then you know the bus driver couldn't have made redtea see the fruit vendor

[Dragon of the West]

But bus driver visits both targets to bus them I thought.

They could have visited mara and someone different who is scum, makes mara look scum, then I see mara as the not real alignment, meaning Kyo could be town and the alignment of their visitor not match

[Dragon of the West]

My theory rn is Marashu targeted Kyo and roleblocked her.

Do you think the bus driver played into the Redtea v Nero or do you think Redtea is lying or do you it didn't interfere and Redtea caught Nero

[Dragon of the West]

And if Kyo flips town what is your plan?

[Dragon of the West]

Okay rampaging as a modifier works reflexively, not directly. So you perform it on the person visiting regardless of them being bus driven. It's like if I visit PGO and I get bus driven I still die to PGO, not the person I got swapped with.

It tells me if the alignment of the visitor matches the alignment of my target. If Mara got targeted by bus driver and the other bus driver's target was scum, Mara would appear to be scum-aligned. If Kyo is town and Mara got swapped with a scum-alignment, I'm pretty sure I'd get the result I got: the visitor has a different alignment than my target. That would be a very convoluted thing to happen, but it's not impossible

[Dragon of the West]

Mara's roleblock would go through before he got killed

[Dragon of the West]

swapped RMH with someone else

Would have had to been swapped with you for you to get roleblocked from it. But I would have seen multiple visitors so that's not the case

[Dragon of the West]

Let me ask for clarification. Per my role PM, when I target a player, I will learn if their alignment matches that of each of their visitors. But I'm now realizing that it might just mean I'll find out if all visitors share alignment or if not all do...it might not give individual results

[Dragon of the West]

For the record my result for N2 said (paraphrased but the bold is a key part) "

A

visitor's alignment did not match your target's"
So if you're town then only one nontown person visited you which would align with town!Gamma and bus driver but not scum!gamma and bus driver

[Dragon of the West]

Bolded is false. The rampaging modifier acts reflexively, which I don't believe can be swapped.

It would make me see the person Mara was swapped with, not just aligned but I would literally see the other person

[Dragon of the West]

Not just *alignment

[Dragon of the West]

If what you are saying was true then if I targeted a PGO but got swapped with someone the person I got swapped with would die instead. That's not how it works.

Your action doesn't change. It makes the person you're switch with receive the actions done to you and vice versa, following action resolution

[Dragon of the West]

Being Bulletproof (immune to nightkills), Atheist (immune to culting) always resolves first.
Paranoid Gun Owner (reflexively shooting someone who visits you)
Asceticizer resolves before
Roleblocker, Jailkeeper (roleblock)
Bus Drive resolves before
Doctor, Babysitter, Jailkeeper (heal)
Fruit Vendor, Neighborizer
Goon, Serial Killer, and Vigilante
Cult Leader
Cop, Parity Cop, Role Cop, Finder
Tracker, Motion Detector, Voyeur

You would get shot by PGO still because that resolves before the bus driver

[Dragon of the West]

But my action of parity cop resolves AFTER bus driver so I would see the person that got swapped

[Dragon of the West]

dragon can be scum

I know you don't believe this

[Dragon of the West]

I think that the nero/redtea 1v1 is better today though

"Here's every way a bus driver could wreck PC results so that I can still be town but also that other 1v1 where a simple bus driver interaction means Redtea would see Nero having the wrong role is the one we should lim in and it's totally not because that's the one I'm not a part of"

[Dragon of the West]

I receive individual results for each visitor. So Kyo was only targeted by one person

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma is 100% scum

[Dragon of the West]

Hammer scum!Kyouko for the glory!

Town!Gamma NEVER posts this. Gamma is very logical and all about thinking things through. This is absolutely manipulation of RMH because he posted (next quote incoming...on mobile)

[Dragon of the West]

I lied.

I lied because no one claimed to have rolled my role and I figured the scum was lying about their rolls and I wanted to confuse them a little but honestly I wasn't sure what the best way would be maybe it worked maybe it didn't.

(1) This was my actual dice roll: 3 20-SIDED DICE: (2, 19, 4) = 25
(2) My actual role is 1-shot double vig and

I killed SirCakez and T3.

I can die happy!!!! This is the best game ever!

I'm a frikkin' hero and annihilated the cult N1, what's it like feeling like a hero? Now I know!

Sheer manipulation. Didn't even try to hide it at all

[Dragon of the West]

I said we should have flipped gamma first yesterday for this exact reason. RMH and I are town, Gamma and Nero are scum and Redtea is 50/50 town or serial killer/other 3rd party

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma, if your roll was true you should think there's a bus driver that could have affected my result

[Dragon of the West]

And since you're scum you know you most likely blocked Kyo

[Dragon of the West]

No, we've talked through this. The bus driver could have swapped who my visited my target

[Dragon of the West]

if T3 did roll cult as Kyo suggested (still not sure how likely that was) and multiple players rolled cult, the second player to roll cult would be switched to 3rd party. that second one could possibly have been Gamma's roll if real. Or, T3's rolled alignment could have been town and the mod fudged it to cult and then fudged the bus driver roll to 3rd part to make it more balanced because bus driver cult leader could have been crazy strong if it survived any amount past D1. Orrrrrrrrrrr Gamma's slot lied about their roll and they're scum

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma, if you're town here I'm genuinely sorry but there's just no way your play at the end of the last day phase plus my result on Kyo AND Kyo being block N2 can let me think you're town.

Also, I'd be shocked if Nero was an even night Parity cop. that would be such a weak role in a mini setup where there's a double vig and we're in Mylo D4....they won't even have a second result to clear or guilty anyone...it was a convenient claim because Mara (who claimed rolling the even night parity cop) just died and flipped green.

Keeping Dwlee alive obviously would have been bad for scum with his role but I would like to thank them for killing their because part of me didn't believe the complex jailkeeper claim and I thought he might be SK....complex seems like such a weird modifier to keep in this setup too unless one of the mafia got switch to goon for some spicy end-game interactions that made it so Dwlee couldn't block scum NK as easily

[Dragon of the West]

No, we've talked through this. The bus driver could have swapped who my visited my target

yeah no
you yourself said you'd get multiple results if more than one person visited your target. if a and another role were bus driven from parson a to person b, you should have gotten a check for person b + the bus driver and person b + the other role you were swapped with
honestly I made my point in haste because if the only other visitor to your target besides you was the bus driver was you no extra result would have to exist, but by doing so you trapped yourself

No.

I target player A. I see who visits player A. Player B targets player A, so I see player B's alignment vs player A's alignment. If the bus driver targets player B and player C, my alignment comparison result would be between player A and player C, but I still only see one person visiting player A

[Dragon of the West]

and to clarify, I don't see WHO visits player A. I just see how many and the results of the alignment comparison.

[Dragon of the West]

Who visited redtea last night?

[Dragon of the West]

Redtea, I know for a fact you aren't main scum so sorry for my early read. Now please just don't be SK

[Dragon of the West]

if dotw and another pr target a player, and are bus driven to another player, dotw would detect the bus driver and the other PR

You're being purposefully obtuse. The VISITING player can get bus driven to a third player. I don't see that interaction! Just who visits my target

[Dragon of the West]

Redtea does my assessment make sense? We don't think RMH is scum here do we? I'm 99% sure scum!Gamma roleblocked you last night just in case you lied about being gated

[Dragon of the West]

Let's talk tomorrow after Gamma and Nero iron out their story and claims in their PT. I think I could vote either slot but I think voting Gamma makes more sense to me at this point.

RMH - please wait until everyone is around to vote. If you're town, Gamma misled you yesterday and I think that's where we should be voting today

[Dragon of the West]

Same dotw, I'm worried you or rmh are 3rd party but it's starting to look unlikely.
Gun to head gamma is scum over rmh, but while I'm pretty sure, I'm not 100% certain. If I was as confident in your alignment as I was of dwlee's I'd be certain, and I'd take your word on Gamma not exuting his town play here.

Like most likely Nero today Gamma tomorrow and boom we're done, but like I said I'm gonna do my due diligence at least.

I think the fact that there were 3 kills N1 and 1 kill every other night gives credence to RMH's claim of one shot doubled vig. Nothing else makes sense with the flips. And I don't think the doubled vig and the doubled parity cop would be given to scum

[Dragon of the West]

Also, town getting two roleblockers AND a jailkeeper seems unlikely. Switching the last roleblocker (Gamma's claimed role) to scum makes sense to me

[Dragon of the West]

Redtea - why did you target Nero N2?

Nero - did you get any result N2?

Gamma - who did you target N3?

[Dragon of the West]

@ DOTW and RHM

Gamma and redtea are scum together, you have to vote gamma or red or you guys will lose

Would you not also lose?

[Dragon of the West]

Fucking fuck me

[Dragon of the West]

If we limmed Gamma instead of Kyo like I wanted we'd have figured it out

[Dragon of the West]

Nero you scumbag I knew it this time lol

[Dragon of the West]

or maybe we both misread a lil'? I'm asking if the theory is that Cyrus fakeclaimed his roll and had his buddy Thor claim it then why am I being pushed over Thor? Doesn't really make sense to me.

This seems too...nice?...to be the way town!Nero reacts to play he thinks is off

I knew it here and I shouldn't have accepted his explanation. He made sure to avoid being this nice again

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma did you block Redtea last night phase?

[Dragon of the West]

Tbh I didn't think there were 2 3rd party and 1 scum left...I felt comfortable with Redtea's vote sitting out because I thought they were on scum so there wasn't a chance at a quick hammer. The only way for town to win going into that last day was for us to both go gamma right away with Nero and then Nero kill RMH because we locktowned him rather than killing Redtea who had the guilty

[Dragon of the West]

Wild setup though. Gg werewolves and thanks Cook for scheming this up and modding!