CONTROL - GAME OVER!

[mastina]

Proxy my vote to: Lady Lambdadelta

I'll vote whoever LLD does (even if it's me).

Peace offering: I promise never to vote LLD prior to D5-at-earliest (barring guilties on her). I reserve right to state suspicion, but promise not to act on it, and the proxy vote is proof of commitment to this promise.

[mastina]

(I'll give a readslist later. Probably not tonight, I've got an endocrinology appointment tomorrow that I want to prepare for and covid to conquer, but some time tomorrow, or at the latest, by Friday, guarantee I'll be playing here too. Give me a lil' bit of time, this game's start time was just a little inconvenient, sorry.)

[mastina]

VOTE: Ircher
(proxy vote to LLD)

(I'll be around later tonight to comment properly tho.)

[mastina]

VOTE: Greeting

Fourth

Ah shit, here we go again.

Going to be VLA for a couple days. My mom is Covid positive and I’m either Covid positive or I got the flu, but waiting on results. I just can’t stay awake for more than a couple minutes right now :/

Town.

VOTE: Roden

Town?

Second
VOTE: MUSH
For tunneling me last game

Scum?

First
VOTE: MUSH

Good evening
VOTE: Bell

Scum.

[mastina]

u guys got beef?

Deserved, thanks to what I did.

(Also tictac's town.)

I'll vote whoever LLD does (even if it's me).

Why are you doing that?

It's my way at attempting to make amends for past wrongs.

I really wanted to play this game but LLD had signed up for it before I did, and I wanted to make sure she didn't replace out thanks to my presence, so...

I start the game informed that LLD is red.

Folks.

VOTE: mastina

Town.

Greetings!

VOTE: The three bears

Town?

VOTE: Save The Dragons

VOTE: three bears

Scum?

[mastina]

Bell
Save The Dragons
The Three Bears (Titus, Flea the Magician, Noraa)
NorwegianboyEE
Tet
Roden
tictac
Malakittens
Lady Lambdadelta

Dwlee99
Princess Elodie
Greeting

T3

MUSHSHAGANA
Toogeloo

Galron
MegAzumarill
Arcade Pals (Dunnstral, MariaR)

Ircher
Cephrir

Kinda surprised that I genuinely have a good readslist from literally just two pages but this is genuinely seriously actually a good readslist imo.

[mastina]

Mush feels town to me tbh.

I'm having a hard time pinning down an alignment for Mush but since I'm sheeping LLD and Ircher/Cephrir (both LLD pushes) are slots I scumread anyway, I might as well sheep her on Mush being town.

[mastina]

(me locking was just trolling and not game related)

For the record, this is bad modding as it has a direct influence on the game, namely?

I'm conftowning both LLD and Three Bears from it.

Buthey, I won't complain from having two conftown from bad modding practices.

[mastina]

(That said I was townreading both slots anyway but the bad modding practice elevates them from 'already town' to conftown imo.)

[mastina]

norwee

Do i know you?

I'm

pretty

sure Tet's outted their main account already? As in, can be found if you look for it?

Butyeah knowing their main, they town.

[mastina]

Fuck reading all of this.

You know, I

thought

that, too, when I saw I'd have 20 pages to read.

But then I read them and actually? It's honestly not that bad. It's quite doable, there's a lot less to read than you'd think by the page count.

I genuinely was able to get a read on almost every player in the game (LLD, T3, Mush, and Toog being the exceptions) just from the first two pages.

(That said you're probably scum saying this due to not wanting to effort, so...)

[mastina]

is this an SCP game?!

Unironically, yes. The organization CONTROL is basically the Alan Wake Universe's lawyer-friendly version of the SCP foundation.

They literally exist in a building that is an Eldritch Location in of itself (similar to the SCP Foundation), they operate on a "need to know" basis, they secure things, they contain things, they protect things, and there's multiple horrors within their base, and the staff have a short life expectancy.

(I have decent flavor knowledge from having caught multiple playthroughs of the game and looking up some facts on TVTropes, but I admit I'm not as much of a flavor nerd on it as, sayyyy, Chrono Trigger. I know more than someone who hasn't done their research, but not as much as someone who has actually had extensive exposure to the game.)

[mastina]

Has anyone ever made an Tet offensive joke based on your username?

Nope, shoot your shot.

You have big Tetties.

[mastina]

Lady Lambdadelta
The Three Bears (Titus, Flea the Magician, Noraa)
Bell
Save The Dragons
NorwegianboyEE
Tet
Roden
tictac
Malakittens

Dwlee99
Princess Elodie
Greeting

MUSHSHAGANA

T3
Toogeloo

Galron
MegAzumarill
Arcade Pals (Dunnstral, MariaR)

Ircher
Cephrir

Kinda surprised that I genuinely have a good readslist from literally just two pages but this is genuinely seriously actually a good readslist imo.

Pagetopping this with the minor switch of T3/Mush (Mush trusting LLD, T3's entrance not being as town as I was hoping.)

[mastina]

Do you plan on just sheeping LLD all game?

Well that depends on how good I think her reads are.

But vote-wise, until the end of D1 is the plan.

[mastina]

Also what the fuck I trust LLD every game I play with her to date tbh it should be NAI LOL

I'm not townreading you on your LLD stance; I'm trusting LLD on her read of you.

So much confidence and putting up a whole readslist after so much meme-ing and fluff that was in this game?

Honestly I don't blame you for saying that as you're fairly new but if any experienced player can't get reads on the majority of the playerlist from those first two pages they're frankly incompetent, those are the two most alignment-telling pages I've ever seen ever.

mastina Idk what your Deal is with the town/scum "sorting" you're doing BUUUUUUUUT I don't like it can you explain the fuckin reads you're doing please thanks in advance!!!

Can't do it right now (fatass father eating is triggering misophonia through headphones, need to be extra distracted with extra sound and typing doesn't mask the crunch of lettuce which is one of the worst triggers), but later, sure.

mastina's page 2 readlist is questionable

I genuinely think it's honestly the best readslist I've made so no, not questionable; I stand by all those reads as being INCREDIBLY likely to be accurate.

[mastina]

These?

Yes, but also:

Lady Lambdadelta
The Three Bears (Titus, Flea the Magician, Noraa)
Bell
Save The Dragons
NorwegianboyEE
Tet
Roden
tictac
Malakittens

Dwlee99
Princess Elodie
Greeting

MUSHSHAGANA

T3
Toogeloo

Galron
MegAzumarill
Arcade Pals (Dunnstral, MariaR)

Ircher
Cephrir

This is, very obviously, Cephrir's scumgame. LLD was dead on the money with her accusation there. If I wasn't sheeping LLD's vote on Ircher I'd be voting Ceph to be honest because he's transparently scum and has been since page two.

This is, very obviously, not Ircher's towngame. LLD's suspicion there is dead on the money and her accusation there is good, so I am all too happy to sheep her there because she's right.

Arcade Pals instantly gave off incredibly bad vibes and while they're not as lockscum as Ircher and Cephrir are, they're still pretty damn suspect.

MegAzumarill is also pretty sketchy, although from memory I don't remember why. I can say that if I were to quote Meg's posts though it'd instantly stand out, similar to the way Arcade Pals and Galron would.

Galron just seems like obvscum here from the getgo, in a way similar to MegAzumarill and Arcade Pals, albeit my lack of familiarity with him and the comparatively minor nature of the scumness means he's higher on the list.

Toogeloo is a blank for me because they're Toog, honestly. I don't know how to read Toog. I just don't. And even if I thought I could (I know I can't), from Toog's content so far, I've got no read one way or another.

T3's content so far has been distressingly not town, but also not alarmingly scum.

Mush I can't get a read on, but I'm sheeping LLD's townread there.

Greeting is obviously town and pretty damn transparently so.
Ditto with Princess Elodie.
This is Dwlee's towngame here pretty obviously as well.

Malakittens I feel doesn't make her V/LA post in the way she did if she's scum so I think that she's town here.
tictac has made it instantly and very obvious that he's town here, from not just the claim but also play, where he's pushing, etc.
Roden, this is the town Roden I've seen before I'm like 90% sure of that.
Tet, knowing who Tet is, is very very VERY obviously town playing their towngame.
This is the towniest Norwee has ever been ever, so he's just obvtown.
StD is also the towniest he's ever been, at least if you know his meta (which by now, I do). This is NOT StD as scum, at all, whatsoever.
Bell's an open book to read. He's posting so he's town. Purely by play, this is my strongest townread.
LLD and The Three Bears are genuinely modslipped to be conftown. Even if they weren't, I think that LLD's town here and The Three Bears are quite painfully obviously town. Three Bears would probably be my second-strongest townread behind Bell (although with StD and Norwee in the running with Tet not far behind, it's a very close call since genuinely Three Bears StD Norwee Tet and Bell are all just THAT town this game), but the modslip elevates them even higher.

All of these reads I'm incredibly confident in and I legit think that this is genuinely my best D1 readslist of all time.

[mastina]

Save The Dragons said "Fourth" and he is your second highest townread

With damn good reason--that genuinely was enough to instantly clear him as obvtown to me.

[mastina]

there is not a single reason anywhere to be found here, as per usual. put up or shut up.

I can back the reads up with reasons when not having a bad brain day. (I'm unfortunately having a bad brain day weekend, sorry. Been that way since circa Friday-Saturday. It'll pass, but it does interfere with mafia.)

In the mean time, will be trying to stay on top of reading and commenting and with luck that'll keep the workload down enough so that when the bad brain waves pass, I'll be in a zone where I can explain things more properly.

[mastina]

Three Bears, Mastina and Mush is my block of trusted individuals ATM.
More applications are welcome.

Well, {Bell, StD} for a start are obvious.
{Tet, tictac, Malakittens} are also solid additions.

Plus LLD's basically modslipped conftown, so can be added as well.

[mastina]

mastina does a lot of hocus pocus to get her reads

I mean, generally speaking, yes--I have a method to make something out of what many see as nothing. I have a whole process involved in generating reads from the RVS. It's basically something I've got down to a science. So yes, I do have a way of pulling rabbits out of my hat when it comes to the RVS.

...But while that might be true

in general

, when it comes to

this

game?

You don't need to be me in order to get reads from the first two pages.

This is, genuinely, the biggest, most telling, first two pages I've ever seen in any game ever on mafiascum.net. I've never seen a game where the reads were more obvious more quickly. We basically had the shortest RVS possible in a large theme because by the end of page two, reads on basically everyone became ridiculously easy.

[mastina]

I am an enigma, spooky.

I get the reference.
(Then again I know your identity, so...)

My read there could change. Depends on Mastina. I don't really have an issue with her vibes readlist, I'm sure there is *some* depth to it but it's what I'm waiting on.

I'll explain on a not-bad-brainday, promise. (I was planning on explaining on like Saturday circa, but, bad brainwaves hit, and I honestly wouldn't be posting in any game at all right now if not for the need to avoid prods. I just am not in a place to play mafia right now but have no choice. With luck I'll be in the mafia headspace within the next couple of days or so, but obviously, not something I can tell you a time. It'll happen when it happens. Bad brain days are usually temporary, in the 24-72 hour range, and we're through about 48 hours so that's why I'm hoping within 48 hours I'll be back in force.)

[mastina]

I got sick this weekend, is what happened. Sorry that I'm not here applying more pressure on the thread, I've been literally dying. !5 people from work have covid.

<3 LLD <3
I know the feeling. <3
(No really, I do; I'm still sick with covid. It's been over a week, still coughing, with no signs of the coughing stopping...)
(Granted my main issue right now is mental rather than physical butstill.)

[mastina]

V/LA 48 hours

(Closing Wednesday into opening Thursday = can't post at all on Wednesday.)
Won't be able to post at all on Wednesday, but I'll force posts later tonight and on Thursday regardless of how much I don't feel like them.

[mastina]

The thing about ircher is that I hate multiquote when it's responding to more than one person. My eyes just glaze over. And it's difficult to quote snip. I've read through his two wall multi-quotes though and they're on point, just not a lot of depth. But that's pot and kettle.

While I feel like Ircher is scum, I am honor-bound to defend him on this point in spite of how it'd potentially weaken my standing in terms of pushing Ircher as scum, in that Ircher doing the multiquote with things that are on-point is actually his town meta.

It's just that him not having depth is still him being scum since the difference between town and scum is that town quotestripes and is onpoint with depth and Ircher as scum occasionally (but does not as consistently) quotestripes onpoint but lacks depth.

(Btw side-note, StD v Roden is pretty obviously TvT but I can't really go in as much depth as I'd prefer to there since I'm not sure I'll be able to get caught up yet alone be lucid. I'm running out of time tonight, both before I need sleep and in brain power.)

I'll do a readslist but I'm not as confident in some reads.

It's okay, you can borrow my confidence by sheeping me. <3

that is one extremely non-controversial readslist

Disagree, it's got a couple of reads I'd call incredibly controversial:

***Town***
Ceph
-
Mastina
***Scum***

[mastina]

i think i slipped up too with noraa pronouns, i'm sorry

^

uhhh what is happening on this page?? If I'm reading this right and Mush is bullying the best faerie bear, HOW DARE YOU.

Mush v Flea is to me I'm not sure if it's hilarious or depressing as it's two plural people fighting each other when I'm pretty damn sure both are town now.

I think these early read lists of yours arent things you normally would elaborate on, but I'd really appreciate follow-up on Noree, and a range of confidence in that tr.

I have like a 66% ability to soulread Norwee.

As in, 2/3rds of the time, I can soulread Norwee--and even in the one third where I can't soulread Norwee, I can't get a read on Norwee.

So when I say Norwee is town here, without a doubt? It's the soulread in effect.

Why can I soulread Norwee? Fucked if I know, I legit have no clue why Norwee's the one player onsite that I have the soulread ability of in 2021-2022. But I can, and this is Norwee as town.

With very very high confidence.

I'll do my best to explain it when it's not 4 am and I have work the next day.

[mastina]

we have 22 players. its not 7. why are people saying its 7???????????????

Technically speaking, there's one way we

could

have seven, and that's if the game's multiball. Which is definitely possible, since the game has multiple factions. The Hiss are the main enemy and primary antagonist of the game, but the Hiss is still hostile to a secondary antagonist, The Mold, which is hostile to The Hiss. That, aside from other malevolent objects of powers and other malevolent entities. (The Furnace for instance, but also that one thing that Jesse can't fight and needs to contain, the rolling death ball thingy.) Malevolent entities/objects of power are all individual things so probably not a multiple-member faction, but could exist as solo-scum of some kind.

That having been said, obviously, no point in speculating multiball before it is proven so because,
1: The game doesn't feel like it's multiball (gamestate-wise it doesn't seem to fit), and,
2: If it were multiball we'd be able to tell as much over time.

So I'm assuming singleball until otherwise proven wrong, which would be a lot less than seven. We're talking, probably five. Maybe,

maybe

6 if the town's incredibly stacked, but 5 is more likely.

SHOW ME

I don't think I need to say it but I'll say it anyway; LLD v StD is TvT.

Btw side-note, StD v Roden is pretty obviously TvT but I can't really go in as much depth as I'd prefer to there since I'm not sure I'll be able to get caught up yet alone be lucid. I'm running out of time tonight, both before I need sleep and in brain power.)

Wowee this sure seems like an example of a place where obvious scum cephrir must be different in an explainable way!!!

It is, I just need to have the time and mental mindset to explain.

[mastina]

do u think its possible that norwee mixed up his reg playstyle to try and sneak by as scum here?

Oh he's tried that before, it doesn't work.

Also even if he did, this is his regular playstyle anyway, so...

(Btw sorry I'm not doing much. My brain is a scattered mess. I wanted to be here last night but couldn't be, I wanted to do stuff today but now I'm like trying to do five different things, I've got adhd bad with a focus on watching the lec debut day, watching a stream of FFVII Remake that'll be coming up, league, streaming, here, attending to a text I got which I need to not forget about, work stuff including something that if I don't attend to I'll literally lose my job, medical stuff including needing to check to make sure there's no conflict between my medical appointment and work, looking into if I can get an appointment sooner than the medical appointment for behavioral health to get a gender dysphoria diagnosis sooner, probably more? I've got like ten things to do, too many things to do in too little time. I wasn't around last night but I honestly shouldn't be around now, I'm here now because I need to be here rather than because I'm in the mindset. I promise that I WILL be explaining, I WILL be doing better content, when I'm not genuinely swamped with all this shit. It should clear up within a couple of weeks altho I admit that unfortunately, I probably won't be able to get my shit together before the end of D1. I'll still TRY of course so with LUCK I'll get done earlier and be able to do things sooner but I don't want to make a promise I can't keep and the fact of the matter is, I've got a bunch of shit going on and will be busy for ~2 weeks or so. I SHOULD be better circa February, and with LUCK I can be better sooner, but I will be having trouble. Shouldn't be much of a problem tho because we're eliminating Ircher my top suspect right now anyway and I'm not a top priority nightkill so circa D2 I'll be able to play, explain things, become more obvtown, etc. Just sucks that it'll need to wait. Hope people understand.)

@Mastina
I see you are online. Do you still agree with Ircher wagon? I want to flip this to death so we can move on.

Yup!

Now granted. I'll need to keep my promise to LLD. So I'll need to sheep her vote.

But I'm using her unvoting without revoting as an excuse to keep my vote on Ircher since unvoting isn't a vote on someone meaning I don't need to remove my vote when she unvotes, and Ircher's a scumread, so...

[mastina]

Reading Mastina’s words on the game this page majes me feel like i should watch an longplay on youtube, because it sounds pretty wicked.

It's made by the same people who made Alan Wake and is canonically set in the same universe, so it's very good. I haven't seen all of Control, but I've seen decent amounts and looked up more when I realized I couldn't catch the entire thing. (The people I watched playthroughs of it, I couldn't consistently catch the entirety of their streams start to finish and I don't have time to watch their vods even on 2x speed.)

The setting is really fascinating, with the implication that Alan Wake basically wrote Jesse, Control, and The Hiss into existence, the entirety of the Control complex, all the lore it has, the various bits and pieces of info you can pick up, and the gameplay mechanics are pretty neat. It's more action-oriented than Alan Wake, with subtler horror. (Alan Wake is more action-horror with the horror being prominently displayed and the action not being consistent; Control is more action with the horror being more subtle. They both have in common a malevolent entity taking control of people and the people being shells of themselves post-possession, and this aspect is very prominent in both games, but Alan Wake has the atmosphere of a horror game, whereas Control has the atmosphere of an action game. Both have mysteries to them, both have horror to them, and arguably the horror of Control is more horrific than the horror of Alan Wake, but the horror in Control is far far far more subtle overall imo because a lot of it is in optional lore. The lore of Control is more horrific but it being lore, it's largely optional.)

[mastina]

And people actually said that the Dunnstral slot was scum.

It is tho?

[mastina]

In case I die tonight, tictac is my pocket scumread and Mastina!town would trust that read.

I don't remember you having a history with tictac but I am probably a dummy dum dum with it existing and me being a total moron in having forgotten it, but yes, I would trust you there.

(btw if anything happened in Greeting's last page of posting that was alignment indicative I didn't really see it because I was too focused on reporting Greeting's posts, so let me know if I missed anything important on that page.)

[mastina]

You seem much less engaged than when you are town.

I'm also a lot more sick from Covid, busy with work in

spite

of being sick with Covid, and in general busy with rl than in past towngames.

I'm trying to keep up on streams I watch, I'm trying to keep up on professional league of legends, I've got numerous doctor stuff I need to get done, I've got a bunch of job stuff I need to do, I work 5/7 days a week for ~5 hours give or take (and commute adds 2 hours per day given 1 hour one-way so that's 7/24 hours for work), I'm suffering from the symptoms listed in here of EXTREME fatigue (I'm literally dead tired right now a full 1-3 hours before I normally would be and I've been exhausted all day), not to mention that I am still coughing 18 days after my symptoms first appeared and the cough isn't going away.

And on top of all that?

I'm more busy with online stuff here, too, and then on top of that?

This game's going at, what, 20 pages per rl day? Something close to that.

Given my covid-induced chronic fatigue and swamp of rl stuff, I'm doing the best that I can.

When I am more recovered and when I am less swamped, I'll be around more.

That won't happen immediately, I gave the timeline already. Circa 2 weeks, give or take a week. 1 week if I'm lucky, 3 weeks if I'm unlucky.

I WILL be doing the explaining I want to do, I WILL be doing the pushes I want to do, just...I literally

can't

yet.

[mastina]

Oops that was meant to be bundled with this post, too, accidentally forgot to merge my windows.

I am Helen Marshall, a non-consecutive night friendly neighbor.

So I don't really believe this claim since I don't really see the flavor connection and Helen Marshall is infected by The Hiss lategame and is one of the lategame bosses, but I'll trust those with more intimate flavor knowledge than my own. (I know a lot about the game, but I don't know

everything

about the game and there's apparently people like Toogeloo who do in fact know everything about the game.)

[mastina]

yeah definitely a confirmable role, I'm not voting ircher out, I'll deal with reads later
UNVOTE: ircher

Oh I should also mention this.

I don't believe the claim, but I acknowledge it's not to be elimmed D1 so I do need to do this:

UNVOTE: Ircher

Back to fully sheeping LLD.

[mastina]

I looked up Tet's main and they're just obvious town this game

^^^

[mastina]

TL;DR Helen Marshall isn't really Friendly Neighbor material IMHO, but it's a confirmable role, so... Whatever.

So if the flavor isn't a good fit and the role ends up not confirmed can we agree to elim Ircher then?

You can argue not on D2 and Ircher's claim would mean not D3 either but if Ircher isn't clear by D4, with the confirmable role not confirmed and the flavor not matching and the play being scum can we kill the scum who is fakeclaiming (Ircher) then?

[mastina]

Mastina will become obvious one way or the other given the space. So they get time until it's evident that benefit of the doubt is being taken advantage of.

I guarantee you, and this IS a promise (one that I can keep), that:
-When I am not as sick from covid as I am,
-When I am not as swamped with important rl shit as I am,
-When the game pace slows down somewhat,
-And/or when I have less shit to do onsite,
(It only needs to be like 2-3/4 of these, it needs to be more than one and yes ideally all four but I can get by with only 2-3 of them being true.)

I'll be doing everything that I

want

to be doing but can't.

But right now I AM very badly sick from covid;
I AM swamped with REALLY important rl shit to take care of;
The game pace IS hard to keep up with right now;
I DO have a lot of onsite shit to keep up with.

This game gets a bit of the short end of the stick right now but I do promise it won't last indefinitely.

Now, while I can promise a return to prime form after I'm less bogged down, I can't promise a

date

on the return to form. Even my 2 weeks give or take a week is just an estimate not a guarantee. But with these conditions met or mostly met, I CAN and DO guarantee I WILL be doing all the shit I want to. I'll give a full breakdown of each player, my read on them, etc., in more detail, along with changes, shifts, everything that I can think of. It'll happen, it's just that I can't do it

right now

.

[mastina]

And people actually said that the Dunnstral slot was scum.

It is tho?

Based on?

Being the scumplay of both heads of the hydra and of the combined nature of the hydra.

[mastina]

Mastina we get it, you're busy. You can just try to make as much content as possible instead of focusing it on JUST saying how busy you are and why.

Yes which is these:

And people actually said that the Dunnstral slot was scum.

It is tho?

Based on?

Being the scumplay of both heads of the hydra and of the combined nature of the hydra.

TL;DR Helen Marshall isn't really Friendly Neighbor material IMHO, but it's a confirmable role, so... Whatever.

So if the flavor isn't a good fit and the role ends up not confirmed can we agree to elim Ircher then?

You can argue not on D2 and Ircher's claim would mean not D3 either but if Ircher isn't clear by D4, with the confirmable role not confirmed and the flavor not matching and the play being scum can we kill the scum who is fakeclaiming (Ircher) then?

I looked up Tet's main and they're just obvious town this game

^^^

yeah definitely a confirmable role, I'm not voting ircher out, I'll deal with reads later
UNVOTE: ircher

Oh I should also mention this.

I don't believe the claim, but I acknowledge it's not to be elimmed D1 so I do need to do this:

UNVOTE: Ircher

Back to fully sheeping LLD.

Oops that was meant to be bundled with this post, too, accidentally forgot to merge my windows.

I am Helen Marshall, a non-consecutive night friendly neighbor.

So I don't really believe this claim since I don't really see the flavor connection and Helen Marshall is infected by The Hiss lategame and is one of the lategame bosses, but I'll trust those with more intimate flavor knowledge than my own. (I know a lot about the game, but I don't know

everything

about the game and there's apparently people like Toogeloo who do in fact know everything about the game.)

do u think its possible that norwee mixed up his reg playstyle to try and sneak by as scum here?

Oh he's tried that before, it doesn't work.

Also even if he did, this is his regular playstyle anyway, so...

(Btw sorry I'm not doing much. My brain is a scattered mess. I wanted to be here last night but couldn't be, I wanted to do stuff today but now I'm like trying to do five different things, I've got adhd bad with a focus on watching the lec debut day, watching a stream of FFVII Remake that'll be coming up, league, streaming, here, attending to a text I got which I need to not forget about, work stuff including something that if I don't attend to I'll literally lose my job, medical stuff including needing to check to make sure there's no conflict between my medical appointment and work, looking into if I can get an appointment sooner than the medical appointment for behavioral health to get a gender dysphoria diagnosis sooner, probably more? I've got like ten things to do, too many things to do in too little time. I wasn't around last night but I honestly shouldn't be around now, I'm here now because I need to be here rather than because I'm in the mindset. I promise that I WILL be explaining, I WILL be doing better content, when I'm not genuinely swamped with all this shit. It should clear up within a couple of weeks altho I admit that unfortunately, I probably won't be able to get my shit together before the end of D1. I'll still TRY of course so with LUCK I'll get done earlier and be able to do things sooner but I don't want to make a promise I can't keep and the fact of the matter is, I've got a bunch of shit going on and will be busy for ~2 weeks or so. I SHOULD be better circa February, and with LUCK I can be better sooner, but I will be having trouble. Shouldn't be much of a problem tho because we're eliminating Ircher my top suspect right now anyway and I'm not a top priority nightkill so circa D2 I'll be able to play, explain things, become more obvtown, etc. Just sucks that it'll need to wait. Hope people understand.)

@Mastina
I see you are online. Do you still agree with Ircher wagon? I want to flip this to death so we can move on.

Yup!

Now granted. I'll need to keep my promise to LLD. So I'll need to sheep her vote.

But I'm using her unvoting without revoting as an excuse to keep my vote on Ircher since unvoting isn't a vote on someone meaning I don't need to remove my vote when she unvotes, and Ircher's a scumread, so...

SHOW ME

I don't think I need to say it but I'll say it anyway; LLD v StD is TvT.

Btw side-note, StD v Roden is pretty obviously TvT but I can't really go in as much depth as I'd prefer to there since I'm not sure I'll be able to get caught up yet alone be lucid. I'm running out of time tonight, both before I need sleep and in brain power.)

Wowee this sure seems like an example of a place where obvious scum cephrir must be different in an explainable way!!!

It is

uhhh what is happening on this page?? If I'm reading this right and Mush is bullying the best faerie bear, HOW DARE YOU.

Mush v Flea is to me I'm not sure if it's hilarious or depressing as it's two plural people fighting each other when I'm pretty damn sure both are town now.

I think these early read lists of yours arent things you normally would elaborate on, but I'd really appreciate follow-up on Noree, and a range of confidence in that tr.

I have like a 66% ability to soulread Norwee.

As in, 2/3rds of the time, I can soulread Norwee--and even in the one third where I can't soulread Norwee, I can't get a read on Norwee.

So when I say Norwee is town here, without a doubt? It's the soulread in effect.

Why can I soulread Norwee? Fucked if I know, I legit have no clue why Norwee's the one player onsite that I have the soulread ability of in 2021-2022. But I can, and this is Norwee as town.

With very very high confidence.

The thing about ircher is that I hate multiquote when it's responding to more than one person. My eyes just glaze over. And it's difficult to quote snip. I've read through his two wall multi-quotes though and they're on point, just not a lot of depth. But that's pot and kettle.

While I feel like Ircher is scum, I am honor-bound to defend him on this point in spite of how it'd potentially weaken my standing in terms of pushing Ircher as scum, in that Ircher doing the multiquote with things that are on-point is actually his town meta.

It's just that him not having depth is still him being scum since the difference between town and scum is that town quotestripes and is onpoint with depth and Ircher as scum occasionally (but does not as consistently) quotestripes onpoint but lacks depth.

(Btw side-note, StD v Roden is pretty obviously TvT but I can't really go in as much depth as I'd prefer to there since I'm not sure I'll be able to get caught up yet alone be lucid. I'm running out of time tonight, both before I need sleep and in brain power.)

I'll do a readslist but I'm not as confident in some reads.

It's okay, you can borrow my confidence by sheeping me. <3

that is one extremely non-controversial readslist

Disagree, it's got a couple of reads I'd call incredibly controversial:

***Town***
Ceph
-
Mastina
***Scum***

mastina does a lot of hocus pocus to get her reads

I mean, generally speaking, yes--I have a method to make something out of what many see as nothing. I have a whole process involved in generating reads from the RVS. It's basically something I've got down to a science. So yes, I do have a way of pulling rabbits out of my hat when it comes to the RVS.

...But while that might be true

in general

, when it comes to

this

game?

You don't need to be me in order to get reads from the first two pages.

This is, genuinely, the biggest, most telling, first two pages I've ever seen in any game ever on mafiascum.net. I've never seen a game where the reads were more obvious more quickly. We basically had the shortest RVS possible in a large theme because by the end of page two, reads on basically everyone became ridiculously easy.

Three Bears, Mastina and Mush is my block of trusted individuals ATM.
More applications are welcome.

Well, {Bell, StD} for a start are obvious.
{Tet, tictac, Malakittens} are also solid additions.

Plus LLD's basically modslipped conftown, so can be added as well.

Save The Dragons said "Fourth" and he is your second highest townread

With damn good reason--that genuinely was enough to instantly clear him as obvtown to me.

These?

Yes, but also:

Lady Lambdadelta
The Three Bears (Titus, Flea the Magician, Noraa)
Bell
Save The Dragons
NorwegianboyEE
Tet
Roden
tictac
Malakittens

Dwlee99
Princess Elodie
Greeting

MUSHSHAGANA

T3
Toogeloo

Galron
MegAzumarill
Arcade Pals (Dunnstral, MariaR)

Ircher
Cephrir

This is, very obviously, Cephrir's scumgame. LLD was dead on the money with her accusation there. If I wasn't sheeping LLD's vote on Ircher I'd be voting Ceph to be honest because he's transparently scum and has been since page two.

This is, very obviously, not Ircher's towngame. LLD's suspicion there is dead on the money and her accusation there is good, so I am all too happy to sheep her there because she's right.

Arcade Pals instantly gave off incredibly bad vibes and while they're not as lockscum as Ircher and Cephrir are, they're still pretty damn suspect.

MegAzumarill is also pretty sketchy, although from memory I don't remember why. I can say that if I were to quote Meg's posts though it'd instantly stand out, similar to the way Arcade Pals and Galron would.

Galron just seems like obvscum here from the getgo, in a way similar to MegAzumarill and Arcade Pals, albeit my lack of familiarity with him and the comparatively minor nature of the scumness means he's higher on the list.

Toogeloo is a blank for me because they're Toog, honestly. I don't know how to read Toog. I just don't. And even if I thought I could (I know I can't), from Toog's content so far, I've got no read one way or another.

T3's content so far has been distressingly not town, but also not alarmingly scum.

Mush I can't get a read on, but I'm sheeping LLD's townread there.

Greeting is obviously town and pretty damn transparently so.
Ditto with Princess Elodie.
This is Dwlee's towngame here pretty obviously as well.

Malakittens I feel doesn't make her V/LA post in the way she did if she's scum so I think that she's town here.
tictac has made it instantly and very obvious that he's town here, from not just the claim but also play, where he's pushing, etc.
Roden, this is the town Roden I've seen before I'm like 90% sure of that.
Tet, knowing who Tet is, is very very VERY obviously town playing their towngame.
This is the towniest Norwee has ever been ever, so he's just obvtown.
StD is also the towniest he's ever been, at least if you know his meta (which by now, I do). This is NOT StD as scum, at all, whatsoever.
Bell's an open book to read. He's posting so he's town. Purely by play, this is my strongest townread.
LLD and The Three Bears are genuinely modslipped to be conftown. Even if they weren't, I think that LLD's town here and The Three Bears are quite painfully obviously town. Three Bears would probably be my second-strongest townread behind Bell (although with StD and Norwee in the running with Tet not far behind, it's a very close call since genuinely Three Bears StD Norwee Tet and Bell are all just THAT town this game), but the modslip elevates them even higher.

All of these reads I'm incredibly confident in and I legit think that this is genuinely my best D1 readslist of all time.

(I think you get the idea, I trust I've made my point that my iso isn't just "will do things later, promise".)

[mastina]

(oops forgot to edit out some fluff and some "will do this later"s from the quotes above. But, even with me accidentally leaving them in I think you can see the content there and yes it basically all holds true still; the gamestate hasn't changed in like 2000 posts. Some reads have strengthened, but by and large my reads back then still are identical to my reads now because literally everything that's happened has basically only reinforced the existing reads to me.)

[mastina]

vote:ircher

Oh hey are we actually going to eliminate Ircher here?

We're not going to accept his bullshit and wait until D4 to eliminate him?

We can actually eliminate scum on D2?

Sweet!

VOTE: Ircher

(I honestly don't care how close Ircher is to elimination, I'm voting Ircher because Ircher is scum.)

[mastina]

why target bears

Well The Mold is a secondary antagonist in the game so it's almost assuredly malevolent meaning scum in nature meaning whatever it did to them was bad and scum doing something bad to a town player is to be expected, so...

If you mean why scum would want to do something bad to them specifically, well...

imo???? good reads, loud, hyperposts, builds good rapport w other players

+ being obvtown from all three heads to be super-duper-mega-obvtown.

[mastina]

mastina and lld haven't checked in.

(Honestly I know it's kinda selfish but I kinda want the game to just go fairly quickly into another night, because the fewer players that are alive, the fewer pages will be produced per day, which will make it easier for me to do what I want to in this game once I get my rl shit together. Which, btw, I'm about halfway done with, but half isn't all the way and it needs to be done-done, so...)

[mastina]

Why is roden again the only person making sense.

Roden does that as town.

[mastina]

Okay so if you care about that why did you hammer before Titus got a chance to post any reads

(I honestly don't care how close Ircher is to elimination, I'm voting Ircher because Ircher is scum.)

mastina and lld haven't checked in.

(Honestly I know it's kinda selfish but I kinda want the game to just go fairly quickly into another night, because the fewer players that are alive, the fewer pages will be produced per day, which will make it easier for me to do what I want to in this game once I get my rl shit together. Which, btw, I'm about halfway done with, but half isn't all the way and it needs to be done-done, so...)

^

I legit didn't know it was the hammer--but I also didn't care.

I made it very clear on D1 that I wanted Ircher dead.

I was cynical, thinking that after Ircher inevitably claimed precisely what he did that the town would want to give him another chance, delaying his elimination to D4.

But then I saw multiple votes on Ircher, meaning there was interest in actually voting out the scum on D2. So I voted the scum because it's what I wanted to do.

(also I will catch up, but it's 4:30 and I

really

need to get to bed, I'm actually overdue on going to bed by 30-60 minutes here. Will try to catch up tomorrow tho.)

[mastina]

So uh.

I got infected by the mold last night. (And I very much did not target The Three Bears.)

It was a night notification, of not listening to instructions, and having eaten the mold.

[mastina]

So uh.

I got infected by the mold last night

. (And I very much did not target The Three Bears.)

It was a night notification, of not listening to instructions, and having eaten the mold.

(so that people don't miss it)

[mastina]

Mastina are you still busy or what.

For now, but not for long. The lack of business is coming VERY soon. Like, less than two weeks, soon. The worst case scenario is 2 weeks; the best case scenario would be 3-7 days.

cool ok massy ur conftown. how do you feel today?

Hoping that, like you, I live for another day phase because I'm

close

to being around more and being able to put my 100% in, but it's not quite there yet.

(Yesterday I had an appointment with someone who should be giving me the letter I need for hormones, so my hope is, get things started this week, settle into routine next week, including being around here more, so that's ~7 days from now.)

Also feeling a bit vindicated since if mold is scum, it means that in spite of me having not given a readslist since D1, my reads are probably still onpoint:

Lady Lambdadelta
The Three Bears (Titus, Flea the Magician, Noraa)
Bell
Save The Dragons
NorwegianboyEE
Tet
Roden
tictac
Malakittens

Dwlee99
Princess Elodie
Greeting

MUSHSHAGANA

T3
Toogeloo

Galron
MegAzumarill
Arcade Pals (Dunnstral, MariaR)

Ircher
Cephrir

This is, very obviously, Cephrir's scumgame. LLD was dead on the money with her accusation there. If I wasn't sheeping LLD's vote on Ircher I'd be voting Ceph to be honest because he's transparently scum and has been since page two.

This is, very obviously, not Ircher's towngame. LLD's suspicion there is dead on the money and her accusation there is good, so I am all too happy to sheep her there because she's right.

Arcade Pals instantly gave off incredibly bad vibes and while they're not as lockscum as Ircher and Cephrir are, they're still pretty damn suspect.

MegAzumarill is also pretty sketchy, although from memory I don't remember why. I can say that if I were to quote Meg's posts though it'd instantly stand out, similar to the way Arcade Pals and Galron would.

Galron just seems like obvscum here from the getgo, in a way similar to MegAzumarill and Arcade Pals, albeit my lack of familiarity with him and the comparatively minor nature of the scumness means he's higher on the list.

Toogeloo is a blank for me because they're Toog, honestly. I don't know how to read Toog. I just don't. And even if I thought I could (I know I can't), from Toog's content so far, I've got no read one way or another.

T3's content so far has been distressingly not town, but also not alarmingly scum.

Mush I can't get a read on, but I'm sheeping LLD's townread there.

Greeting is obviously town and pretty damn transparently so.
Ditto with Princess Elodie.
This is Dwlee's towngame here pretty obviously as well.

Malakittens I feel doesn't make her V/LA post in the way she did if she's scum so I think that she's town here.
tictac has made it instantly and very obvious that he's town here, from not just the claim but also play, where he's pushing, etc.
Roden, this is the town Roden I've seen before I'm like 90% sure of that.
Tet, knowing who Tet is, is very very VERY obviously town playing their towngame.
This is the towniest Norwee has ever been ever, so he's just obvtown.
StD is also the towniest he's ever been, at least if you know his meta (which by now, I do). This is NOT StD as scum, at all, whatsoever.
Bell's an open book to read. He's posting so he's town. Purely by play, this is my strongest townread.
LLD and The Three Bears are genuinely modslipped to be conftown. Even if they weren't, I think that LLD's town here and The Three Bears are quite painfully obviously town. Three Bears would probably be my second-strongest townread behind Bell (although with StD and Norwee in the running with Tet not far behind, it's a very close call since genuinely Three Bears StD Norwee Tet and Bell are all just THAT town this game), but the modslip elevates them even higher.

All of these reads I'm incredibly confident in and I legit think that this is genuinely my best D1 readslist of all time.

Obviously, this isn't 100% right, but I think I'm probably in the 95% range here.

VOTE: Cephrir

[mastina]

I reread a little and my general POE is galron/ceph/roden/norwee/dunn/mastina
Hopefully a few scum in there

Well, Galron/Dunn/Ceph are all scumreads of mine, so, yes, there is in fact scum in there.

I'll happily help you eliminate any of those three.

You're on your own if you want to try Norwee (he's still town here 100%, I know his towngame and this is it like 200% as in basically strongest townread here) or Roden (still pretty damn sure this is Roden's towngame altho this is not the same level of soulread Norwee is) tho.

[mastina]

something something mastina being confident and correct on a day 1 scumread is probably in and of itself damning for her

Actually I've had confident correct scumreads in almost every towngame I've played. I can give the receipts for proof if you doubt that but suffice to say, the meme around me is greatly exaggerated.

i think he actually made efforts to try and solve the game, i like that yesterday he was trying to sort slots. So far this game has been a lot of ramming slots to their death and i think it's a good sign someone is trying to solve the entire game instead of scum just hanging back sacrificing ircher and letting us do TWIE.

Ceph efforting/solving = Ceph scum tho. When the town is ramming slots to their death, Ceph as scum has a field day looking like town without it affecting the town's implosion.

im astounded that no one cares about bell this game. he's a free read and the read is scum

Also this is backwards. Bell is a free read, yes. The read is town.

[mastina]

Bears i don't think any of the heads are playing like they would as scum + their reactions to thinking they were poisoned and going to die day 2 felt pretty damn genuine and not like something they'd bother faking as scum

Pretty much, yeah.

Bears has legit been one of the most obvtown slots in the game since D1.

The slots that have been obvtown the entire game are {Bell, Bears, StD, Norwee, Tet (IF you know their main)}.

All of them are town, period.

I have other townreads, obviously! But those townreads? Never ever EVER wrong here. They are legit 100% all town.

[mastina]

The Three Bears (4) -

Dunnstral

, tictac,

Cephrir

, Save the Dragons

Gee I wonder what alignment is driving this wagon?

The Three Bears (4) - Dunnstral, tictac, Cephrir, Save the Dragons

Oh look its the rest f the scum team

Well StD's town and tictac's mostly null (degraded townread) to me but Dunn and Ceph? Definitely!

[mastina]

@Mastina when you coming back. I feel like this is pretty unlike you to be afk for so long.

Well the town hammered while I was busy--I genuinely didn't get to play an entire day phase.

(also I will catch up, but it's 4:30 and I

really

need to get to bed, I'm actually overdue on going to bed by 30-60 minutes here. Will try to catch up tomorrow tho.)

This was my last post before the end of the day phase. Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:31 am.

You know when the day ended?

(dayend but snip)

Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:16 am. 26 hours later. I would've been around if the game wasn't literally in night. Can't post while the game's in the night, now, can I?

but ya scummy.

i havent been this town in multiple years

You haven't

played

in multiple years, either.

[mastina]

gonna go play civ now

(Fun fact I'm actually on again off again working on a Civ 3 mod but obviously with how busy I am atm it's more "off", which is frustrating since I actually REALLY want to finish it.)

I felt good about them until they stopped existing.

Maybe don't hammer a player before I post and then I can exist more.

(Yes I realize I was technically the hammer vote on D2 but I made it VERY clear that I wanted to vote Ircher. I didn't care what the vote was, I was always voting Ircher as long as there was a wagon there, and there was a wagon there, so I followed through on exactly what I said I would do.)

ugh mastinas such a fuckin nothin slot.

I'm doing the best I can while busy but my iso is far from 'nothing'.

If you want me to elaborate on any individual read, I'm all too happy to! (A full readslist I don't have the time for breaking down each read in detail but one read doesn't take nearly as much time to type up.)

I have made it pretty damn unambiguous what said reads are and, by and large, they have not changed since D1.

If you're wondering WHY they haven't changed since D1, serious question: what game developments have come up that would've changed literally any of my reads? The town players are just as town (well mostly) and the scum players just as scum and the null players just as null (well mostly) and if you want me to explain the why I'll be happy to. On all players when I have more time, or on any individual player now.

theres no reason to mold mastina if she's dying.
-noraa

Hey, uhhhhhhh, Noraa?

So uh.

I got infected by the mold last night. (And I very much did not target The Three Bears.)

It was a night notification, of not listening to instructions, and having eaten the mold.

I didn't claim that I was molded until after you made this post.

Howwwwwwww did you know I was molded before I said I was molded?

[mastina]

I don't really trust these mold claims. If they were on town read players, maybe, but with Bears and mastina both claiming it, it makes no sense.

Bears is literally one of the towniest slots in the game.

I'd also like to point out that mastina basically Beetlejuice's and then claimed it.

I literally came home from work, took a shower, and logged in here to post. After the slightest of detours to check my messages since I got two rather than the expected one. If nobody had posted at all, I'd be there at that time; if people had been posting way way more, I'd be there at that time. My presence has zero correlation to others and is entirely due to my rl schedule as has been made abundantly clear. I'm indefinitely (until/unless work changes) V/LA from Tuesday Night to Thursday Evenings due to working the closing Wednesday shift and opening Thursday shift. That ain't changing any time soon. And today, I had to pick up my medications, too. It went work->medication->home->shower->mafiascum. There was zero reading before-hand. I jumped straight in without having read a word, and I didn't even read anything while at work.

But can you elaborate on why this is obviously Cephrirs scum game.

Well basically, the townier Ceph looks, the more he's actually scum.

Ceph has a lot of snark regardless of alignment, but as town is a lot more lowkey in many aspects. He'll still be low-activity as scum in spite of being more high-key as scum, but his low activity is different. As scum his lower activity is basically more, well, timed conveniently, whereas when town his low activity is because he doesn't give a fuck.

It's a hard read to explain but this is just his scumgame through and through. It was legit obvious that he was scum from his first post.

[mastina]

Massy you said you'd help me. Please help me im really bad at putting my thoughts into words.

Help on what? Pushing Dunn or defending you?

Because I can do both. <3

VOTE: Dunnstral

[mastina]

but now mastina sees the obvtown bell n its like ???????? ok fuck we got townlocks here DAMN

I've had Bell as obvtown since literally page two.

if that's true, why are they still alive?

We had no kill N1 which there's literally a dozen possible explanations for.

LLD, for instance, could have been killed if scum, knowing who they targeted N1, figured out LLD was a protective. As one example of the dozens.

Tet basically hardclaimed investigative PR of some kind yesterday, so that is an easy explanation of N3.

Why would scum kill an unknown role when they have town players giving away being TPRs? (As a reminder, this is not a role madness game. There are in fact VTs, so revealing you are a power role is actually

revealing

.)

Plus, as an aside: this game has a lot of players scum would want to kill. One of them being alive isn't any more surprising than the other.

The scum only have one nightkill per night. They can't kill everyone they want to.

Mold might genuinely be a way for them to set up said kill as a second scum kill, just with a condition that makes it not trigger immediately.

mastina i fuckin cant believe both dragons n norwegian r town. u will need 2 sell me on that. 1 of that pair has gotta b scum

Well I can soulread Norwee and this is Norwee is town.

As for StD, it's basically that StD has never been more obvtown than he has this game, and he is very very VERY obviously scum when he's scum. This is StD's towngame through and through because the difference between his towngame and scumgame is night/day and this is the brightest of the bright lights and is way way way beyond what StD is capable of as scum.

[mastina]

Unless Dunn is like the godfather of scum and wooled me, ai can't follow that. And after today's performance by Ceph, I'm sold on town there too. You will get no support from me on either of those.

Fortunately you're probably scum here so I don't need your support to eliminate your scumbuddies.

[mastina]

sorry i mix you and lld up often. i thought you'd died last night for some reason. idk.

Today I learned that Noraa thinks that I'm a good enough player to be on LLD's caliber.

(<3 the honor is great <3)

[mastina]

I'm a noodle because my job is hard and for some reason it isn't actually getting any less busy.
I get home and all I want to do is play pathfinder and sleep and worry about all the paper work and stuff I have to do/might forget.

This is a big-ass mood and very much #relate as this is basically me in a nutshell here.

but you need to reassess based on him being a wet noodle for the last 100 pages, which i don't believe you have actually read

Of those I've read 80-90 of them and Bell is still town.

Bell's still active and scumhunting enough for it to be quite obvious he's town here.

[mastina]

This game feels like a loss

?

It's D4 and we have one scum dead and today seems like an excellent chance for another scum dead.

The only faction this game is a loss for is the scum.

[mastina]

Knowing LLD was town, I can definitely see this as maf being like "heeey I shall pick this strong town member I wish to be associated with. Trust me I'm town"

1: LLD might not be immune to being pocketed, but she would

never

be pocketed by me. EVER. She would never ever ever think I am town when I am scum and even if she does think I am town? She wouldn't care and would still be willing to eliminate me thanks to our history, so on that note:

2: Don't you fucking

dare

call that a scum-motivated action. You do NOT know the history between LLD and I. I have previously earned her spite, justifiably so. To the point where I genuinely was worried I was on an LLD blacklist of "never play with me again mastina" mentality from her.

I made an attempt to mend that bad blood so you can

fuck off

with the accusation that it was scum motivated. Don't you fucking dare.

Greeting had just had this giant post SRing Ircher, before that lots of momentum was going towards Ircher, (obviously with hindsight...) this feels like maf going "My partner is flipping? I want the town points for bussing" like, (this is not my vote) is also setting up later for if Ircher towntells, then mastina can be like "see this is towny!!! that wasn't my vote anyways!!"

I had already promised to sheep LLD. LLD voted Ircher, and so I followed suit.

But as it so happens? I was already scumreading Ircher anyway. Ircher was transparently scum from page two, and had LLD voted a town player, I'd have been forced to vote that town player but would have stated my suspicion on Ircher anyway. The fact that LLD was voting a scumread of mine was a godsend as it meant I could put my money (vote) where my mouth (voice) was.

This is like the standard "I'm making reads and not explaining a single one" and looking back at those posts, they look to agree with what pretty much everyone else was saying.. so we just copy their reads, call them our own, no reasoning... again, this really feels like something maf would do

You can fuck off with the accusation that I would EVER copy anyone's reads EVER.

I never fucking copy other players reads. Ever. I develop them on my own. If they happen to just so happen overlap with the group consensus? That's fine. But they were not made because of others. My reads are my own. Nobody else's.

Now, granted.

I have three metrics that I read players off of.

Generic general tells where "this is more likely to come from town" and "this is more likely to come from scum" in general.

Then, refining said tells with meta specific tells, where, "this generic towntell does not apply to this player", "this generic scumtell does not apply to this player"; "this generic towntell is actually a scumtell for this player"; etc.

And the third has

similarity

to copying the reads of others: it's basically "peer pressure". If I have no read on a slot, I can be influenced by the voices of players that I trust to be town. If I have a slot as null but all of the players I think are town think the slot is an alignment, they will in fact influence me to think the slot is town. (This is actually where my Mush townread comes from!) If I have a scumread that literally everyone tells me is wrong, I will start to doubt it. Depending on the strength, potentially the opposite too (tho I am more likely to think "no they're wrong, I KNOW this slot is town, fuck what the consensus says").

And while not directly part of that, players I am scumreading can have influence on my reads, making me townread/scumread slots I otherwise would not, altho this is separate from the peer pressure metric imo.

But while that peer pressure exists and is one of my three axes for developing reads?

It's not a copy of the reads and in this game I've had like...maybe 2-4 of my reads be peer pressure influenced?

Literally every. single. other. read. I developed on my own because I have the fucking experience to develop those reads and know them to be true.

And This feels again like maf, "oh I shall blame the mod, but these 2 are town"

Mafia complain about conftown from bullshit sources that's true enough.
Mafia might raise a concern about conftown from bullshit sources to the mod in private about it compromising the game that's true enough.

But I did neither of those and pretending I am is disingenuous as fuck.

So fuck off with this "case" of yours.

[mastina]

I'm interested in voting Roden.

I'm not.

Roden's town and between Dunn here and this:

VOTE: Roden

Absolute 0% interest in voting Roden, ever.

Y'all are literally doing the scum's job for them by voting Roden here.

[mastina]

VOTE: Andante

(Andante is also town btw. Not as solidly as others, but similarly town to Roden.

{Bell, Save the Dragons, The Three Bears, NorwegianboyEE} are all locktown of locktown, townbloc of townbloc, basically conftown in how town they are, S++ tier townreads, same tier as Tet was at. 100% absolutely town, CANNOT be scum. Andante and Roden aren't on that level.

Andante and Roden are more on the Malakittens level that LLD was also at, which is also the level catboi is at. The strong townread level, but not locktown of locktown. A, to A+, tier townreads. Reads that I'm quite confident on, but unlike the above, they're instead 95% town. Basically impossible to be scum, but not fully impossible, just improbable to the extreme.)

[mastina]

Can we fucking lose the phrase "bring receipts" yet?

I don’t even know what that means.

Basically, backing an accusation with the proof behind the accusation, and the proof being extensive, covering not just one area, but a full list of areas. Most commonly, multiple games, but can be multiple days in a single game from multiple players.

At least that's how I use it.
(I'm pretty terribly at following through on giving receipts tho so secretly every time I offer I'm hoping nobody actually takes me up because while I would never lie and I genuinely

can

get the receipts...that's :effort: and I really really really don't like doing the work unless I absolutely have to, so I genuinely prefer to not go through the work to prove things.)

Another question. How many scum are we looking at? Cus if there are like 5 i prob need to reconsider if some of my previous townreads are mistaken.

Oh it's 5 definitely and I realize I don't have as many hard-scumreads as I should (I should have 4, I only have two), but I figure that's a "cross the bridge when we come to it" moment where we'll figure out who's scum after 3/5 of the scum are dead and we have more info to work with.

[mastina]

Want Roden or Mastina.

Fuck off.

Why do you have reason to townread them both? Is a better question. Asking for a friend.

Because this isn't my scumgame and you should know that, for a start.

i mean my issue with mastina is that i fucking hope she is town so bad. like i would be heartbroken if she were scum because we mindmeld so hard i cant even.

I've never mindmelded with a player when I was scum pretty sure. (Also for that matter I'm reasonably sure I've never mindmelded with scum before but I'm less certain on that.)

every time i look at her posts im like IT CANT POSSIBLY BE TOWN but then im like fuck i fucking want it to be town
and im just in this constant state of extremely conflicting thoughts. Because flea thinks massy is town, im not willing to touch it.

Well let me give you a handy guide.
"Yes, mastina, we know. You have a flowchart."

...Well, yes, that is a handy guide, but

actually

, let me give you an even

better

guide.

If I am incredibly active and posting and my posts look incredibly accurate AT THE TIME (no hindsight here! You can't look at the reads and say that in hindsight they were right or in hindsight they were wrong, you need to look at them in the CONTEXT of WHEN they were made and think if, AT THAT TIME, they looked accurate), I am town. It almost never happens, but hey, once in a blue moon, it does. When my activity picks up in this game (and hey it should be picking up now that most of my shit is behind me!), this will be me in this game!

If I am incredibly active and posting and my posts look incredibly inaccurate AT THE TIME (no hindsight here! You can't look at the reads and say that in hindsight they were right or in hindsight they were wrong, you need to look at them in the CONTEXT of WHEN they were made and think if, AT THAT TIME, they looked accurate), still town--this happens a lot because my passion shows even when I am incredibly wrong.

If I am incredibly inactive but my posts look incredibly accurate AT THE TIME (no hindsight here! You can't look at the reads and say that in hindsight they were right or in hindsight they were wrong, you need to look at them in the CONTEXT of WHEN they were made and think if, AT THAT TIME, they looked accurate), still town--real life gets in the way of my games and frankly so do other mafia games. This game's not in mylo or lylo for instance, so it's not a top priority for me especially with the dead scum we have, the number of players we have, the amount of time we have, the likelihood of having extra PRs that we have, etc. I can and do have lowkey towngames where I was incredibly inactive but still town. (Ask Flea, fae should know.) If I am making sense but less active, chances are it's a lowkey towngame of mine where I'm not able to be passionate and proactive but where I am still very much town.

The only time where I am scum is when I am incredibly inactive but my posts look incredibly inaccurate AT THE TIME.

The kill cephrir idea persisting through the day I think is actually a good sign cephrir does flip scum in this game. I would suggest this as today's elimination but everyone is warned.

mastina being scum checks out. im sort of just trying to let myself believe this because I've felt off about her for a long time now. I'm just really unsure of how to feel about it because she like agrees with us on everything. she's so towny and I just really fucking want her to be town here and it upsets me to consider that she might just be scum and that's why I feel this way. But I'm considering it now.

The latter does not support the former since I've been voting Ceph basically the entire time. I was voting Ceph until YOU asked me to vote Dunn yesterday, you may recall.

Speaking of which tho:

VOTE: Cephrir

[mastina]

If it's a scum ability, scum can claim to have been molded to be cleared, no?

Sure but I don't fakeclaim as scum, so...

i still have too many srs though. like mastina, cephrir, toog?, andante?, fenrir? for scum

I'd vote ny of those except STD, honestly.

pedit Ceph comes in and makes me wanna hit that vote button....

I sheeped you (on a secondary scumread that was your primary), you wanna sheep me (on a primary scumread that is your secondary)?

[mastina]

@mastina hi why aren't your reads changing this game?

Why should they?

What, in the flips we've had this game, would have changed my reads?

All the town dead were pretty much mostly or entirely town in my list;
All the scum read were explicitly my scumreads.

So tell me Ceph.

When I've been entirely 100% right so far.

Why would I change my reads from thusfar-proven-accurate, to anything else?

oh btw. i had a read sometime yesterday or overnight idr which but im pretty certain [mastina, cephrir] has scum. i have like 70% accuracy with these types of reads but i think it is true here. their dynamic was really really weird in one interaction i found.
it was like an indirect interaction that i currently dont remember anything about anymore. but it was suuuuuuch a weird interaction. pretty sure those two have scum pretty much impossible that both are town

How convenient then that I've been voting Cephrir and scumreading him the whole game and thus am fully behind limming him then.

i guess pushing me all game gives her cover to not actually vote the partners she's been bussing?

Oh so you're saying I've not voted the scum are you?

Let's test that theory by looking at the facts and evidence!

VOTE: Ircher

Ircher (7) - Save the Dragons, NorwegianboyEE, MegAzumarill, Galron, Lady Lambdadelta, MUSHSHAGANA, mastina

Ircher (1) - mastina

VOTE: Ircher

Ircher (11) - Lady Lambdadelta, Tet, Cephrir, Val89, NorwegianboyEE, MUSHSHAGANA, Save the Dragons, Dunnstral, Toogeloo, Malakittens, mastina

VOTE: Dunnstral

Dunnstral (3) - The Three Bears, NorwegianboyEE, mastina

Dunnstral (8) - NorwegianboyEE, mastina, Bell, Save the Dragons, Cephrir, Andante, catboi, The Three Bears

It seems like this is outright fabrication from you Ceph and anyone doing any factchecking can tell you're bullshitting!

[mastina]

Scum are running out of wiggle room. I think today might be a good day for mass flavor claim.

im not really feeling like reading stuff rn but if we do this, we are going second to last. we're only second to catboi.

Of course Noraa chooses to not feel like reading stuff

just

as I'm posting.

[mastina]

Do you not think Ceph has towntold these latest pages Mastina. I can't really see them as scummy atm.

I really don't see anything town from him at all to be honest.

I legit don't get why people are?

[mastina]

Btw now that it's over I feel obligated to mention:
scumastina is now officially back to her pre-funk days; the curse of never being able to play the game as scum has been broken.

[mastina]

(basically mastina doesn't believe noraa busses, so scum-noraa would only bus in town-mastina world)

Wait do I?

This is not a thing I remember...

[mastina]

i mixed up noraa and nancy

NGL I don't even remember that for Nancy, either.

But, regardless: with this knowledge, why haven't you revised your statement off of the new info that makes your prior take obsolete?

[mastina]

Super off topic, but is Tet actually RCEnigma?

I can answer this given that I have known Tet's identity this whole time, but I won't confirm/deny anything while Tet is dead.

[mastina]

Mastina what's your read on Tictac/Galron currently.
I was gonna ask why you townread Tictac but noticed you downgraded them to nullread at some point.

My read on Tictac is "fucked if I know".
Tictacs a total blank.

As for Galron, I both do, and don't, know his alignment. It's hard to explain, but I will elaborate when I can.

[mastina]

Oh hey I can now state my read on Galron: Galron is town.

I was in two games with Galron at the same time.

In both games, Galron's play was looking fairly identical. Similar content, similar posting frequency, similar tone, etc.

I didn't know what alignment Galron was in either game but the similarity between them meant there was a high chance that Galron was the same alignment in both.

Which was even further reinforced by this:

1-shot Neapolitan

Another weak claim but because it's weak it lends support to Ircher's weak claim.

1-shot Neapolitan

Another weak claim but because it's weak it lends support to Ircher's weak claim.

I'm getting games mixed up

What game was Galron getting Mizzy's game mixed up with? I'm pretty sure that Galron was getting Mizzy's game mixed up with

this

game, due to being the same alignment and maybe same role in both.

Now, obviously.

This isn't 100%.

Galron could just be similar superficially regardless of alignment so the two games could be two different alignments.

Galron could get a towngame and a scumgame confused so the two games could be two different alignments.

So this isn't like "100% locktown" level of town, but like: statistically speaking, I think that there's a much higher chance of Galron being town.

[mastina]

This isn't 100%.

Doesn’t even feel 50%.
You saying it could mean anything but in the same post that it is more likely town? Why?

Because per the site rules update it's discouraged to say something you believe to be 100% is actually 100%.

(Which is to say it's not 100% but I'm like in the 95-99% range here.)

[mastina]

why not interact with like any of the 20 posts I've made on Galron if she TRs galron so much... I do not get it

Uh because the game in question literally only ended today and I didn't know Galron's alignment there?

I knew (well, 'knew') that Galron was the same alignment in both games.

I didn't know what alignment Galron

was

in both games.

It took that game ending and Galron being town there for me to know Galron was town here.

Before that, Galron very well could've been scum.

[mastina]

(Yes I am about to post here but I am figuring out a way to do so without getting banned by the listmods which I am already at huge risk of and fuck it might legit be too late and they're discussing a ban on me now, but regardless, I am going to need to figure out what to say very very...delicately...to put it lightly. But I do have

words

to say and they are

quite

strong ones.)

[mastina]

I think she believes in what she's saying. It's too bizarre of a defense to come from scum, and I can understand the thought process behind it. I see it as her town telling, but I don't think the case itself means Galron is town.

Spoiler alert!

The read I said was 99% town, was actually 99% town, and I was 100% correct in saying that Galron was town for it.

Who'd'a'thought???

I don’t think Galron is town

I want Mastina DEAD

You'd THINK you'd have fucking learned, but nope!

Back to the same bullshit!

Galron (8) - tictac, NorwegianboyEE, catboi, Roden, Andante, Toogeloo, Save the Dragons, Cephrir
Cephrir (2) - mastina, The Three Bears
tictac (1) - Malakittens
Not voting (2) - Cephrir, Galron

There is no fucking way that was an all-town wagon on Galron.

Not. a. fucking. chance.

Now, catboi is proven town.

Norwee is just town.

StD is transparently town.

Objectively, that leaves {tictac, Roden, Andante, Toogeloo, Cephrir} (yes I am counting Ceph even if he's not officially listed given his intentions here), but if you believe Roden to be town the way I do, that leaves 1-3 scum in {tictac, Andante, Toogeloo, Cephrir}.

It's

almost

like we should have fucking eliminated Cephrir yesterday like I wanted!

VOTE: Cephrir

[mastina]

also my reads have been ON FIRE.

Try matching mine.

Bell

Save The Dragons
The Three Bears (Titus, Flea the Magician, Noraa)
NorwegianboyEE

Tet

Roden

tictac

(this read would later drop)

Malakittens

Lady Lambdadelta

Dwlee99

Princess Elodie
Greeting

(this read would later go up)

T3

(okay this read was lower than ideal so this is one miss)

MUSHSHAGANA

(this read would skyrocket up later)

Toogeloo

Galron

(this read was uncertain until Mizzy's game finished at which point it shot straight up to conftown)

MegAzumarill

(okay this read was much lower than ideal so this is miss #2)

Arcade Pals (Dunnstral, MariaR)

Ircher

Cephrir

If your reads have been on fire, mine have been a fucking sun. (Or at least a volcano.)

dw today is an even numbered day so we will hit scum that's apparently how it works

Funny you mention that.

You know what both prior even days had in common?

The town was onboard with my scumreads! I scumread Ircher and the town was onboard with that; I scumread Dunnstral, and the town was onboard with that.

You know what all three prior odd days had in common?

The town was not onboard with my scumreads! I scumread Ircher; the town let him live. I scumread Cephrir and Dunnstral; the town let Ceph and Dunn live. I scumread Cephrir, the town fucking eliminated GALRON of all slots.

It's

almost

like I know what I am fucking talking about here and am actually having the best damn towngame of my life. Where I should be fucking sheeped.

[mastina]

[quote="In post 5150, Roden"They also believe Toog has to get elim'd next, he isn't providing any meaningful input and Tet sees it as scum indicative. [/quote]Funny you mention that, because it's quite important.

I'll be getting back to you on

why

it's important because Tet is correct, more than Tet could know.

[mastina]

It is a little odd that no one has gone after toog at any point

I mean, I've described this from Toog before.

This is just what Toog

does

.

Toog stays under the radar. Toog avoids gathering attention.

Now, granted.

I used to think that was scum indicative from Toog--as it turns out, it's not, Toog does that as town too.

...But while it is not alignment indicative as Toog does that regardless of Toog's alignment...

...Toog's content in town/scum games is different and what Toog is doing this game is scum.

[mastina]

i think mastina and cephrir need to up their games if town because we are losing if you dont.

I DID FUCKING STEP MY GAME UP.

I FUCKING TOLD YOU THAT GALRON WAS 99% TOWN.

I FUCKING ASKED FOR YOU TO SHEEP ME ON CEPHRIR.

Like, I was pushing both Dunnstral and Cephrir, but of the two, voting Cephrir. You asked me to swap to Dunnstral, so I did.

But then, after you got my help on Dunnstral, I asked for you to return the favor for Cephrir.

BECAUSE I WANTED CEPH DEAD YESTERDAY.

Like.

You are town. All three heads are painfully, obviously, ridiculously town.
Norwee is town here. This is Norwee's towngame through and through. I don't think I would

need

to soulread Norwee here to see that he's town here but even if he wasn't obvtown from play, I just DO soulread him. He's just town here.
Save the Dragons is night and day different between his towngame and his scumgame and this is his towngame through and through. He

cannot

be scum as this is the most obvtown he has ever been.
Roden is pretty damn strongly town here; Malakittens is pretty damn town here; Galron was fucking 99% town here and catboi was obvtown before he even replaced in and was elevated to basically conftown after he did.

So genuinely?

Genuinely.

For three scum.

We had a pool of {tictac, Andante, Toogeloo, Cephrir}.

One town in there.

And three scum.

While there's a

chance

of {Roden, Malakittens} containing deepscum (and I need to emphasize what 'chance' means--chance means it's

possible

, but not

probable

, and is "cross that bridge only IF we come to it"), {Bears, Norwee, StD} are

never

scum here.

With a townflip in the pool of four yesterday we'd genuinely have all three scum today and with a scumflip? Even better.

I

am not the one who needs to step my fucking game up. MY GAME IS AT ITS FUCKING PEAK RIGHT NOW.

It's everyone who's fucking ignoring me that needs to step it up.

[mastina]

Feel like Toog claim is real since it’d be weird fake claim from scum since we already have ascetic type role in Tictac.
And flavour checks out.

Norwee Toog is a

flavor expert

.

Of

course

flavor for a claim checks out.

But the thing about Toogeloo's claim?

It's a scum fakeclaim.

Why?

Because

inherent to Toogeloo's claim is an inability to prove the claim true

.

Not ONLY in the claimed gated shots, but ALSO in targeting A DEAD TOWNIE, and FURTHERMORE in the ambiguity of 'negative actions'.

That's literally a triple-whammy of "this role cannot be proven in any way shape or form".
That's a triple-whammy of "this role cannot be shown to be fake from another role".

It's pretty damn clearly a fakeclaim so shame on you for fucking buying it.

Although considering Took has master knowledge of the game and is apparently flavour expert maybe i shouldn’t use that to solve Galron allignment, never mind that.

You mean the flavor expert that:
Didn't wait for Grendel to claim flavor?
Didn't go hard against Ircher?
Didn't ask for TWIE's flavor/role?
And said THIS about Galron?

That flavor expert?

[mastina]

Why is mastina so high? She's jack all this game.

Funny you say that. Because you know what?

There's a way to prove that.

It's called an iso.

So let's do a little math.

How many posts have I made?

As of this one? 86 going on 87.

How many of those posts have had no content in them? Let's literally count them all. One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, mayyyybe-ten (debatable), mayyybe-another (also debatable). So let's say that between the two debatable each is half of a no-content post rounding the total out to ten.

Now let's do some simple addition. (Actually subtraction but it's a Macklemore lyric.)
What's 86/87 - 10?
Why, pretty simple!

That'd be 76/77.

Okay, so now let's do a little more advanced math, a little thing called division!

What's 77/87? (Or if you prefer, 76/86)
0.8850574712643678--which is 88.50574712643678% content. (Or if you prefer, 88.37209302325581% content.)

Almost a 90% content ratio! Where 9/10 of my posts are making content!

That sure doesn't sound like I've done jack all game. It sounds a lot to me like I've been posting content the entire fucking game.

But hey! Let's go check the nature of the content, just to be sure! After all, not all content is created equal, right? So maybe I'm telling the truth about the content being there but being misleading about how good it is? So let's see if the posts are shit!

VOTE: Ircher

A vote on scum? That doesn't look like I'm doing nothing.

VOTE: Greeting

Fourth

Ah shit, here we go again.

Going to be VLA for a couple days. My mom is Covid positive and I’m either Covid positive or I got the flu, but waiting on results. I just can’t stay awake for more than a couple minutes right now :/

Town.

Second
VOTE: MUSH
For tunneling me last game

Scum?

First
VOTE: MUSH

Good evening
VOTE: Bell

Scum.

I start the game informed that LLD is red.

Folks.

VOTE: mastina

Town.

Greetings!

VOTE: The three bears

Town?

Why, it looks like these reads seem to have all been good ones!

Bell

Save The Dragons
The Three Bears (Titus, Flea the Magician, Noraa)
NorwegianboyEE

Tet

Roden

tictac

(this read would later drop)

Malakittens

Lady Lambdadelta

Dwlee99

Princess Elodie
Greeting

(this read would later go up)

T3

(okay this read was lower than ideal so this is one miss)

MUSHSHAGANA

(this read would skyrocket up later)

Toogeloo

Galron

(this read was uncertain until Mizzy's game finished at which point it shot straight up to conftown)

MegAzumarill

(okay this read was much lower than ideal so this is miss #2)

Arcade Pals (Dunnstral, MariaR)

Ircher

Cephrir

It's not

perfect

, but this looks like it's pretty damn good for D1!

(me locking was just trolling and not game related)

For the record, this is bad modding as it has a direct influence on the game, namely? I'm conftowning both LLD and Three Bears from it. Buthey, I won't complain from having two conftown from bad modding practices.

Literally conftowning two slots sure is doing nothing! I could do a lot of these too since a lot of my reads I explain in the iso.

So let's skip ahead, shall we?

These?

Yes, but also:

Lady Lambdadelta
The Three Bears (Titus, Flea the Magician, Noraa)
Bell
Save The Dragons
NorwegianboyEE
Tet
Roden
tictac
Malakittens

Dwlee99
Princess Elodie
Greeting

MUSHSHAGANA

T3
Toogeloo

Galron
MegAzumarill
Arcade Pals (Dunnstral, MariaR)

Ircher
Cephrir

This is, very obviously, Cephrir's scumgame. LLD was dead on the money with her accusation there. If I wasn't sheeping LLD's vote on Ircher I'd be voting Ceph to be honest because he's transparently scum and has been since page two.

This is, very obviously, not Ircher's towngame. LLD's suspicion there is dead on the money and her accusation there is good, so I am all too happy to sheep her there because she's right.

Arcade Pals instantly gave off incredibly bad vibes and while they're not as lockscum as Ircher and Cephrir are, they're still pretty damn suspect.

Toogeloo is a blank for me because they're Toog, honestly. I don't know how to read Toog. I just don't. And even if I thought I could (I know I can't), from Toog's content so far, I've got no read one way or another.

T3's content so far has been distressingly not town, but also not alarmingly scum.

Mush I can't get a read on, but I'm sheeping LLD's townread there.

Greeting is obviously town and pretty damn transparently so.
Ditto with Princess Elodie.

Malakittens I feel doesn't make her V/LA post in the way she did if she's scum so I think that she's town here.
tictac has made it instantly and very obvious that he's town here, from not just the claim but also play, where he's pushing, etc.
Roden, this is the town Roden I've seen before I'm like 90% sure of that.
Tet, knowing who Tet is, is very very VERY obviously town playing their towngame.
This is the towniest Norwee has ever been ever, so he's just obvtown.
StD is also the towniest he's ever been, at least if you know his meta (which by now, I do). This is NOT StD as scum, at all, whatsoever.
Bell's an open book to read. He's posting so he's town. Purely by play, this is my strongest townread.
LLD and The Three Bears are genuinely modslipped to be conftown. Even if they weren't, I think that LLD's town here and The Three Bears are quite painfully obviously town. Three Bears would probably be my second-strongest townread behind Bell (although with StD and Norwee in the running with Tet not far behind, it's a very close call since genuinely Three Bears StD Norwee Tet and Bell are all just THAT town this game), but the modslip elevates them even higher.

All of these reads I'm incredibly confident in and I legit think that this is genuinely my best D1 readslist of all time.

This looks like I am actually explaining my reads! And not having them left as empty.

I could quote a whole lot more but let's keep it fairly succinct and skip ahead some!

vote:ircher

Oh hey are we actually going to eliminate Ircher here?

We're not going to accept his bullshit and wait until D4 to eliminate him?

We can actually eliminate scum on D2?

Sweet!

VOTE: Ircher

(I honestly don't care how close Ircher is to elimination, I'm voting Ircher because Ircher is scum.)

Wouldn't you know it? I voted scum D2 as well as D1!

Massy you said you'd help me. Please help me im really bad at putting my thoughts into words.

Help on what? Pushing Dunn or defending you?

Because I can do both. <3

VOTE: Dunnstral

Well would you look at that? I voted scum on D4 as well! That's confirmed three out of six days I voted scum and if Ceph is scum it's genuinely 6/6.

Oh hey I can now state my read on Galron: Galron is town.

I was in two games with Galron at the same time.

In both games, Galron's play was looking fairly identical. Similar content, similar posting frequency, similar tone, etc.

I didn't know what alignment Galron was in either game but the similarity between them meant there was a high chance that Galron was the same alignment in both.

Which was even further reinforced by this:

1-shot Neapolitan

Another weak claim but because it's weak it lends support to Ircher's weak claim.

1-shot Neapolitan

Another weak claim but because it's weak it lends support to Ircher's weak claim.

I'm getting games mixed up

What game was Galron getting Mizzy's game mixed up with? I'm pretty sure that Galron was getting Mizzy's game mixed up with

this

game, due to being the same alignment and maybe same role in both.

Now, obviously.

This isn't 100%.

Galron could just be similar superficially regardless of alignment so the two games could be two different alignments.

Galron could get a towngame and a scumgame confused so the two games could be two different alignments.

So this isn't like "100% locktown" level of town, but like: statistically speaking, I think that there's a much higher chance of Galron being town.

And I was hard-defending Galron.

So if that's "jack all", Toogeloo, what do you consider content? If the above all constitutes having done nothing, what do you consider having done something?

They also believe Toog has to get elim'd next, he isn't providing any meaningful input and Tet sees it as scum indicative.

Let's go back to this, shall we?

Toogeloo has said

I

have done "jack all" of anything.

But you know what?

There's a player slot that fits this description way better than I do:

Toogeloo, who in the words of Roden saying the words of Tet: Toogeloo is not providing meaningful input. Want proof? Well this is Toogeloo's iso.
It's comparable to mine in number of posts.

Let's see how many of them are content, shall we?
Here's the first, a vote on me.
A second, furthering.
A Norwee townread, for a grand total of two reads given.
Discrediting of LLD-Bears being town.
Backpedaling.
Elaboration on the discredit.
A vote on a slot we know to be town.
Defense of a slot we know to be scum.
There is an Ircher vote, and a mention of wagoning Arcade Pals, but that vote leaves and goes onto the mislim wagon for the day. (Without a claim mind you.)
They do vote Ircher D2, but again defends Dunnstral.
As a reminder: at this point Toogeloo has stated a read on a grand total of three slots: mastina-scum (a read I know to be wrong), Dunnstral-town (a read we know was wrong), and Norwee-town (okay this one's right).

Three reads--that's literally it.

It takes nearly 4000 posts and until DAY FOUR for Toogeloo to give more than three reads. Now granted, it's a lot more than three reads, but it still has flipped scum as strong town.

On Day Four (as a reminder: we eliminated scum-Dunn that day), Toogeloo pushed me, and hard-defended Dunnstral.

After having been proven wrong on Dunnstral, Toogeloo has nothing to say on the matter, and continues going on. Toog does add a townread on Roden in to their credit, but there's no acknowledgement of having been wrong.

And then Toogeloo L-1'd Galron. Who was, as a reminder, town.

Now, that looks an awful lot like an iso full of "jack all", in Toogeloo's own words. Because it's basically nothing. It's literally just the bare minimum.

So Toogeloo is actually hard-projecting.

The thing Toogeloo is accusing me of having done (which is objectively false and can be proven by looking at my iso) is a thing that

Toogeloo is actually guilty of having done[/url].

The ONLY reason I'm not voting Toogeloo here is because I want Ceph dead more than Toog.

[mastina]

Mastina could still be fakeclaiming

Due to a CERTAIN rule change that I VEHEMENTLY disagree with, I cannot really respond to this without getting banned as I am probably already dangerously close but fucked if I know where the line on that rule is precisely, it's a fucking bullshit rule change and the sheer ambiguity present in how fucking hard it is to know where the line is in what I can and can't say is proof of why it's a shitty ass rule which yes, does in fact punish neurodivergent folk on mafiascum (more on that below), so let's just say that I am attempting to remain within the rule and if I am not actually within the rule, that's proof of why the rule is so bullshit because this is literally

me trying to follow the rule

while still

playing the game

.

But let's just say: I have some VERY strong words to say about that rule change; check out what I have to say there and think about how likely it is that I am to fakeclaim as scum.

That said, without linking to MD (where I can probably track down other MD posts beyond/before the rule change if I cared to for the record), and in trying to fit to the spirit of the rule in spite of how fucking bullshit the rule is, let me attempt to word this in a way that is within the rule and is entirely 100% specific to this game:

There is a reason in

this game

that I would not fakeclaim as scum.

What reason is that?

It's called "I have an anxiety disorder".
Now, if you want to disbelieve me on the above,
One, you're an asshole, because you should never fucking disbelieve someone when they say they have a disorder like that, and two, I can pretty damn easily prove that I do in fact have an anxiety disorder.

But since I am going to

assume

you are not an asshole, I am going to assume you do in fact believe me when I say I have a pretty damn bad/severe anxiety disorder.
So...What does that mean?

Well let me tell you what it means.

It means I am neurotic and borderline paranoid.

So what does that mean in a mafia game precisely?

Well let me give you some background on what anxiety does to someone.
When I was driving my car, I got a "what if I am in a crash and I shatter my knee?" thought. Anxiety.
"What if I suffer from a heart attack?" thought. Anxiety.
"What if a bear or cougar mauls me on the way to my car" while it's dark. Anxiety.
"What if I lose my job from having done something wrong?". Anxiety.
"What if this condition I can see/feel/etc. is something actually severe?" Anxiety.
I have borderline crippling anxiety, and the above are daily examples of how it manifests.

So now! Let's translate what that very same anxiety does to me in a

mafia

context.
And I mean that both in the sense of mafia game, and in the case for showing why I would not be fakeclaiming in this specific game, a mafia

alignment

!

Do you know how I think when I am scum?
Well in the context of this game, I can tell you what would happen for the idea of fakeclaiming being infected by the mold:
"What if there is a mold tracker role that can track players who have mold? If such a role exists and I fakeclaim, I could be caught by it!"
"What if there is a mold detector role that can detect mold on a player they target? If such a role exists and I fakeclaim, I could be caught by it!"
"What if there is a role that can detect things like [poisoned] [infected] etc. and they target me? If such a role exists and I fakeclaim, they wouldn't see the mold!"
"What if I need to use the mold every single night in order to use the role properly? What if not using the mold for a night literally costs us the game from having not used it?"
Depending on what the mold actually

does

, there might also be something akin to "What if the mold triggers and I am not impacted the way the players with the mold are?".
Depending on how the mold infects people (say for instance it could spread based on night actions), there might also be something akin to "What if someone targets me and then doesn't get infected by mold? Wouldn't that out me as a liar?"

I'm probably missing two or three more that come to mind.

You may insist.
"No human being could actually think that way!"
"Those thoughts are ridiculous!"
"Those thoughts are clearly absurd."
"Those thoughts are so improbable as to be borderline impossible."
And similar.

But if so?

If anything like that enters your mind?

You don't fucking know how anxiety works

in my brain

.

Because that is

precisely

how it works.

Yes, those thoughts are paranoia.
Yes, those thoughts are ridiculously unlikely.
Yes, those thoughts are neurotic, even deranged.

But that is how scumastina thinks. She fears so much as a 1%.
If there is a 1% chance of being caught in a lie, it means my anxiety will cause me to fear that possibility being real, and the thought then consumes my mind. It's an idea, it grows like a disease, and consumes me. The 1% grows to a 50+% in my mind. So the things that might be safe to do in practice become borderline suicide in my mind.

If the site mods want to ban me for having just described to you how my anxiety works, then by god I'm going to say something I never thought I would say and say that I will join Nancy Drew in saying that the site staff literally

is

discriminating against Neurodivergent folks.

Because guess what? Anxiety + Autism is why I am a wallposter. I'm obsessed with explaining my thoughts to perfection, thus, cannot be succinct.

I can no less get over a fear of fakeclaiming than I can be succinct. Them banning me for a fear of fakeclaiming as scum would literally be equivalent to them banning me for not being succinct. I'm dead serious in that comparison. It would be banning me for something that is

a fundamental immutable unchangeable aspect of myself

.

So I do truly hope that this is within their new bullshit rule, and also a sufficient answer to your statement.

[mastina]

I can certainly see that possibility, she isnt really posting

Let's break down my schedule since this is important.

On Sunday, I leave for work at ~6:20 am pacific time. I work until ~3 pm pacific time, and get home at ~4 pm pacific. While I'll be streaming more on that day soon enough which means I will be more busy on that day soon enough, overall, what this means is that I am usually available that day to post. Sometimes, I may not, if too busy with other things, obligations, the mafiascum tasks being too much, etc. But most of the time, I am free. I just need to be in bed before 4 am.

On Monday, I get up at ~12:00 pm pacific, give or take half an hour. I can sometimes squeeze mafia in during this time, but if not, I leave for work within an hour or so, and work finishes at 8 pm pacific. Which gets me home at 9 pm pacific. Since it's the same "bed at 4 am or sooner", that means I have ~7 hours of free time. Meaning that, like Sunday, I am usually available that day to post. Sometimes, I may not, if too busy with other things, obligations, the mafiascum tasks being too much, etc. But most of the time, I am free.

On Tuesday, my schedule is identical to Monday. There is a stream I usually watch once I get home which lasts until ~11:30 pm pacific, which cuts down the free time from ~7 hours down to ~3-5, but I still am usually available that day to post. Sometimes, I may not, if too busy with other things, obligations, the mafiascum tasks being too much, etc. But most of the time, I am free.

On Wednesday, I

might

be able to post at the same times as I do on Monday/Tuesday when waking up pre-work, but post-work? Not a chance. I am the closing guard on Wednesday which means same finishing time as Monday/Tuesday, but being the opening guard on Thursday means I am

required

to go STRAIGHT to bed in order to get 6 hours of sleep (and it's always close to me falling under). This means that if I do not get to post on Wednesday morning, I do not get to post at all during this section of the week.

On Thursday, I wake up at ~3:30 am and go straight to work. Work lasts until ~1:15 pm by default, but staff stuff can make it last much longer than that. Assuming no staff stuff, I get home at ~2:30-3:00 pm. While there is the same Tuesday streamer present on this day (also present on Sunday btw usually at that 7-11 pm range), and they eat up ~7-11 pm, that still leaves me time both before they stream, and after they stream, for me to post. We are in that timeframe now.

Granted, I DO stream on Thursday Nights when I can (can't tonight due to doctor appointment tomorrow), and that means I only have until ~2-3 am free, but that's a lot of time. Sometimes, I may not, if too busy with other things, obligations, the mafiascum tasks being too much, etc. But most of the time, I am free.

On Friday, I wake up whenever, which usually is in the ~2 pm mark give or take an hour. While there is the same streamer present on this day (~7-11 pm), and I have family night, I'm usually free for the entire rest of the day. Meaning I can post here. Sometimes, I may not, if too busy with other things, obligations, the mafiascum tasks being too much, etc. But most of the time, I am free. I do stream at ~3 am, so I do run out of time eventually, but it's still a lot of free time.

On Saturday, I usually wake up at ~2 pm mark give or take an hour. I need to go to bed at ~9-11 pm to wake up for work on Sunday, so I am not as free. For the longest time, Saturday was my "designated mafiascum day off", because I've always had a morning Sunday shift and often staff meetings on Saturday and Fridays have late Family Night leaving me wanting a day to recover. So this day, far less frequent, but still sometimes present onsite.

This is, by and large, an indefinite schedule. Infinitely repeating. Week after week after week. I try to remind the mods that I am V/LA every Wednesday-Thursday, but should I forget, it remains true regardless of whether I say it inthread/announce it or not.



...Now, why did I just go and say all of that?

Why, let's remember: when did this game open?

As it so happens: the game opened on a Wednesday!

When did it open on Wednesday?

6 pm pacific.

Where am I, per the above, during that time? And for how long?

I am working, and cannot post until...today, as it turns out!

So as a matter of fact: why, yes, I wasn't posting!

I

can't

post during that time!

But while I might not post every single day and I do miss days on occasion, the fact of the matter is: I am still posting

most

days.

For instance, math time: This game has been open for ~37 days, give or take.
Removing two days per night, we can remove ten days from that total for the number of days that I

can

post.
Which means that this game has had ~27 days where I can post.

How many posts have I made in 27 days?

It's up to ~87/88 now.

Well do you know what that works out to?

~3.259259259259259 posts per day.

And that's including the days that I can't post and/or didn't post.

I am posting an average of over three times per day.

I am posting content in those posts.

I very fucking much AM around.

If people think I am NOT around?

I suggest they actually take a fucking LOOK to see if their thought holds merit. (It doesn't.)

[mastina]

Mastina

Ashtray, VT.

Whoever the fuck is left since I think all of {Cephrir, Toogeloo, tictac, Andante} have claimed. (Andante if not, tho.)

[mastina]

Spoiler:

i think mastina and cephrir need to up their games if town because we are losing if you dont.

I DID FUCKING STEP MY GAME UP.

I FUCKING TOLD YOU THAT GALRON WAS 99% TOWN.

I FUCKING ASKED FOR YOU TO SHEEP ME ON CEPHRIR.

Like, I was pushing both Dunnstral and Cephrir, but of the two, voting Cephrir. You asked me to swap to Dunnstral, so I did.

But then, after you got my help on Dunnstral, I asked for you to return the favor for Cephrir.

BECAUSE I WANTED CEPH DEAD YESTERDAY.

Like.

You are town. All three heads are painfully, obviously, ridiculously town.
Norwee is town here. This is Norwee's towngame through and through. I don't think I would

need

to soulread Norwee here to see that he's town here but even if he wasn't obvtown from play, I just DO soulread him. He's just town here.
Save the Dragons is night and day different between his towngame and his scumgame and this is his towngame through and through. He

cannot

be scum as this is the most obvtown he has ever been.
Roden is pretty damn strongly town here; Malakittens is pretty damn town here; Galron was fucking 99% town here and catboi was obvtown before he even replaced in and was elevated to basically conftown after he did.

So genuinely?

Genuinely.

For three scum.

We had a pool of {tictac, Andante, Toogeloo, Cephrir}.

One town in there.

And three scum.

While there's a

chance

of {Roden, Malakittens} containing deepscum (and I need to emphasize what 'chance' means--chance means it's

possible

, but not

probable

, and is "cross that bridge only IF we come to it"), {Bears, Norwee, StD} are

never

scum here.

With a townflip in the pool of four yesterday we'd genuinely have all three scum today and with a scumflip? Even better.

I

am not the one who needs to step my fucking game up. MY GAME IS AT ITS FUCKING PEAK RIGHT NOW.

It's everyone who's fucking ignoring me that needs to step it up.

ok im sold. tell me which one is most likely scum. we'll elim it today.

Honestly?
If I am being completely honest, Toogeloo is actually more likely to be scum. Their play is lackluster (Cephrir in contrast has efforted), their play is highly scum indicative (this field tho, Ceph still beats Toog in because this is Ceph's scumgame), and they are hypocritical with claims:

Toogeloo said basically the whole game that the players claiming mold were disingenuous about it, including accusing me of fakeclaiming.

But Toog's own claim is doing the very thing they accused me of; it cannot be proven and is easy to fake.

I really don't want to admit that tho and was tempted to just outright lie and say that Cephrir is the most likely scum, just because I have wanted him dead longer and also stronger.

Which is frankly one reason that I am still keeping my vote on Ceph. I realize that objectively, Toog is more scum than Ceph, but subjectivity, Ceph still is my preferred elimination.

[mastina]

I am not the one who needs to step my fucking game up. MY GAME IS AT ITS FUCKING PEAK RIGHT NOW.

It's everyone who's fucking ignoring me that needs to step it up.

Honestly, this makes me skeptical of everything you say. After largely fooling you in UPick a Normal until possibly the last day, I can't say you're on top of your game.

I don't want to vote Cephrir based on my VCA, but I would be willing to change to Toog if my hydra partners are willing.

~Mama

Well for a start, I didn't say that my reads are great in every game; I said that my reads are great THIS game.

But, I should note, in the game you "fooled" me, there were two major reasons for my townread:
One: Elements claimed a scum preference and Taly No Preference. With me knowing that Taly was a mason and he submitted no preference and under the assumption of Elements town, that made me believe that you had a mechanical reason to be town thanks to you also submitting No Preference.

And Two: It didn't look like you had scumbuddies. Which, on D1, you didn't. You knew who the scum were, but couldn't communicate with them and they didn't know that you were scum. This showed in your play, since those factors USUALLY indicate that abslot is town.

[mastina]

I am not the one who needs to step my fucking game up. MY GAME IS AT ITS FUCKING PEAK RIGHT NOW.

It's everyone who's fucking ignoring me that needs to step it up.

Honestly, this makes me skeptical of everything you say. After largely fooling you in UPick a Normal until possibly the last day, I can't say you're on top of your game.

I don't want to vote Cephrir based on my VCA, but I would be willing to change to Toog if my hydra partners are willing.

~Mama

Well for a start, I didn't say that my reads are great in every game; I said that my reads are great THIS game.

But, I should note, in the game you "fooled" me, there were two major reasons for my townread:
One: Elements claimed a scum preference and Taly No Preference. With me knowing that Taly was a mason and he submitted no preference and under the assumption of Elements town, that made me believe that you had a mechanical reason to be town thanks to you also submitting No Preference.

And Two: It didn't look like you had scumbuddies. Which, on D1, you didn't. You knew who the scum were, but couldn't communicate with them and they didn't know that you were scum. This showed in your play, since those factors USUALLY indicate that abslot is town.

Basically,
It was clear from both your posting and the posts of others in the gamestate especially given my mechtalk that:
You were not coordinating with the scumteam;
You were not communicating with the scumteam;
Nobody was treating you as a scumbuddy would treat their partners.

These three things were all true, because on D1, you couldn't coordinate or communicate with them and they didn't know who you were. They could GUESS, and you could attempt to SIGNAL, but clear unambiguous 100% effective communication/coordination was impossible.

And I picked up on the lack of it.

Tell me, Titus: if YOU saw a slot on D1 that had nobody treating them as a scumbuddy, and it was obvious that they weren't communicating or coordinating with scum:
Would your first thought be,
"Oh this slot's a traitor"…
…Or would it be, "Oh this slot is town"?

For D1, it was a good read.

And you may recall: D4 was scuffed for the town thanks to a certain SOMEONE deciding to fucking fakeclaim a guilty on a town power role.

That basically-gamethrowing move aside, if D4 were allowed to play out the way it SHOULD have, as a day NORMALLY would: suspicion would have mounted on D4, especially given that I was going to push Dwlee.

You may recall that I didn't get a chance to post at all on D4 due to the fakeclaim on town, but had I, it'd have been pushing Dwlee, and nothing you could do would stop me from having pushed Dwlee, so attempting to protect them wouldn't sway me; it'd have only made me suspect you.

Granted, I should admit that my word choice is very specific: nothing YOU could do would change my read. Or Galron or Greeting or even Taly. SOMEONE deciding to fakeclaim could in fact have swayed me away from Dwlee--and onto them. (as shown by D5)

[mastina]

Ye gods Mastina just gave me a new hairstyle...

FWIW Mastina, I'm 100% on board with you, you're my locktown read currently (And you know my locktown reads are few and far between).

I am locking on Andante though here.

-Pinkie (All unsigned are Momma)

For the record, I'm willing to vote any of {Cephrir, Andante, Toogeloo, Tictac} in the preference of Cephrir

>

Toogeloo > Andante

>

Tictac, so I would join you on Andante, it's just that she isn't my first or second choice.

That group of four for sure has 3/4 scum tho, so her having AT LEAST a 75% chance of flipping scum means that she's a good wagon.

I just think that Ceph and Toog are better wagons.

[mastina]

I'm leaning mastina Toog atm. Need to get straight with hydra partners though. Adante isn't a terrible vote though.

~Mama

If you asked me to, I'd vote either of Toog/Andante.

[mastina]

toog can die tomorrow though because he normally towns up under pressure and if it doesnt happen, he's probs just scum.

idk about massy still. both of my hydra buddies now think she's scum and im leaning that way as well unfortunately.

I'm willing to vote literally everyone that your hydra is collectively scumreading.

I'm not scum here and that should be transparently obvious.

[mastina]

Why are you so much better at explaining your reads in other games that are over than in this one

Well right now, I'm phoneposting; my explanations right now are quite comparable to my explanations in those games while I was phoneposting.

Previously though, it's multiple things:
I was focused on other games more than this one. I can only focus on so many things at once. When all of my attention is on one game, I'm going to explain more than when divided between three or four. And in the games I am more focused on, there will be more explanation.

I have honestly a lot less of a need to explain half of my reads. Any townread who isn't a suspect, waste of time to explain. It's only the scumreads that need explanation.

Explanation is additive; I haven't compiled my suspicion into a single post as a case, but it's still scattered through my iso.

And a combination of tiredness, bad brain waves, and time crunch;
My explanations here are comparable to there in the times I had those factors.

[mastina]

that looks like a pretty damning iso to me.

While this is true,

Follow up question: why did you try to protect LLD during Night 1?

The reason I asked this question was because I looked back to see if maybe you crumbed this at some point, but I didn't really find anything. If anything, your ISO contradicts your claim.

Spoiler: CTRL+F LLD

It's ordinary to be an awe of LLD.

Anyone else weirded out that LLD did an obvious fake vig on Noraa, Noraa took it to heart, and then LLD takes a break while Three Bears gets freebie town reads?

Food for thought.

Now I'm hungry. I could use a sandwich or something.

Like to me...

No one should ever take a day vig 24 hours into the game seriously unless it's Bad Idea Mafia, and I certainly wouldn't expect that from Noraa.

I usually expect LLD to play like she's going to die Night 1. I'm used to her gambits, and the fake day vig is easily something she's do for reactions, but she went no where with it and is now slinking in the shadows of gameplay.

The whole thing seems weird to me.

Reads List:

Norwee - Town
LLD - Null
Mastina - Scum

I'm currently a sheep.

You barely mention LLD, this was all you said about her while she was alive. All you did was show suspicion of her and call her a null read, so why would you protect her from hostile abilities? Why wouldn't you protect your town read? In fact, why didn't you target Ircher to protect him from a scum Roleblock in case he actually was a Friendly Neighbor?

Ircher confirms tonight, simples.

inb4 "I was blocked."

You even anticipate it here. Targeting LLD just doesn't make sense, and I feel pretty sure that you're lying about it.

^This is better. (I cut out the Toog + Norwee part because Norwee is town and thus cannot be scum with Toog.)

Intent to L-1 Toogeloo

;
If nobody objects, I'll do so within 36 hours. (Before Wednesday morning, so tonight, Tuesday morning, or Tuesday night)

[mastina]

refuge in audacity is such a cool tactic.

A tactic from a tictac is truly a tongue twister. (Try saying that sentence ten times fast...)

lol 9 days still till deadline

We do not need to use all that time.

We can, if there is a need.

But I don't think there is a need.

leaving massclaims unfinished still a mistake, but dunno what to do about it.

There's two sides to it.

On the one hand: finishing massclaim would give us the whole picture of the claimed setup, allowing us to better figure out who is town and who is scum, and give us an idea of what scum have done and so on and so forth. It would also remove any possibility of deepscum waiting on a claim for an opportunistic moment.

But on the other hand: every unclaimed player is probably just town. We already have a fairly good scum pool, and the town players claiming roles would only hand scum the ideal road map for their own night actions. There's no risk of scum making a claim later because the unclaimed players are all town. We already have a scumpool so finishing massclaim doesn't really help us narrow it down any further (since if any of the unclaimed slots had information clearing a slot within the PoE, they'd have claimed it).

So while both have advantages and disadvantages, imo, the advantages of finishing massclaim are far far outweighed by the disadvantages of finishing massclaim given the unclaimed slots.

Theres only 1 role I'm curious about seeing, but I also don't WANT to see if because if Roden has it, I need to kick ass, if Mala has it then I need to reassess a couple of things. It's technically a PR and instantly lock clearing for that slot imo.

Oh if you and I are thinking of the same thing (and I'm pretty damn sure we are in fact thinking of the same thing), then I can tell you whether Roden is/isn't it (because I would know thanks to ~reasons~--not role obv since I'm a VT, but other ~reasons~), but per the above, I don't think I should.

I know what you are getting at (at least I think I do), and I

agree

that it is an instantly lock-clearing of the slot in question for that role. So not telling the scum who has that instantly-lock-clearing of the slot role is for the best, so I should probably not tell you if Roden is/isn't it even though I know the answer.

Also:

Intent to hammer Toogeloo

[mastina]

So I got the message from the beyond but I am genuinely tempted to just outright ignore it because the dead thread have basically polar opposites of my thoughts.

Toogeloo was apparently molded on N5. Dunnstral is claiming that it's mylo. (Not quite the word used, message used a more "modern" term but I'm paraphrasing here.)

Toogeloo says that Dylan might be an honest claim from mafia (but fuck that, Bears are town; this is what I meant by "tempted to genuinely just outright ignore the message from beyond");

Toogeloo says that Roden and Cephrir are town (Roden, sure! But Ceph, fuck that; this is what I meant by tempted to genuinely just outright ignore the message from beyond");

Toogeloo leans scum on Bears.

That was all I got tho.

[mastina]

so scumz declined the mystery-box of super-duper-PRness and went for the fruitvendor?
wanna fininish massclaims now,

or just yeet bears?

I'm still not molded lol, see I think our plan should be to vote out maf!

I'm honestly still convinced bears maf

, like, bears are all "we're a powerful role!!! not vt!!" ok, if you're a powerful role, what info for us do you have?

So like.

We can agree that these two are mafia, right?

That Bears is town and that the scum thought that they could get a Bears yeet in mylo and are pushing them as a mylo mislim, right?

'Cause it sure looks that way to me!

[mastina]

But i don’t need an confirmation to see that both Tictac and Andante are angling hard for an Bears lim today. >_>

Oh hey mind meld!

...Have I mentioned that Norwee is town this game?

'Cause he is.

[mastina]

Can I get a case on Ceph? People keep saying Ceph and I legitimately don't know why.

Well for a start, PoE.

But also this has been Ceph's scumgame.

like why are we even being suspected

Maybe because it's mylo and the scum want to win via mislimming you.

Just a thought.

like we've just been towny across the board and constantly drowned out.

I've been listening to you the whole game.

I've sheeped you, I've worked with you, you are not alone; it's the scum that are doubtcasting you. <3

It has to be in or Andante/Ceph/Tictac.
I just don’t see a world where that is wrong.

^

[mastina]

dead thread thinks we're scum???????? what the fuck is happening over there :/

I know, right?!? There's a damn good reason I was tempted to not mention it all because fuck that.

Bears is town.

Norwee is town.

{Malakittens, Roden} has a high chance of being town.

So like.

That leaves only three names left, with three scum, so...

[mastina]

so this is a no-yeet to get out of evens situation?

I think it's a no yeet situation? and people should ask to fast night...

So first tictac and Andante say "Bears scum".

And now tictac and Andante say "no yeet".

I'm sensing a pattern here...

[mastina]

Enough people are around that a quick hammer could've happened by now...

For the record I've been around the entire time, just offline. (I am always paranoid of people checking when I have logged in / when I am online, seeing I am not posting here even if I don't post anywhere on site, accusing me of posting in a mafia PT, so I do most of my reading offline. But I have been here the entire time.)

I am having trouble figuring out something to actually say (brain kinda scrambled), but I've been around, reading offline, including seeing the two votes on Andante. So if I was scum and if Andante wasn't scum and if there were no scum votes already on Andante: yes, I could in fact coordinate a quickhammer with a scumbuddy.

I wouldn't even need to scumclaim for it.

I would cast a, "VOTE: Andante; I see the wagon there, I agree with it, I know it's a risk but it's a risk I'm willing to take", and leave the scumclaim of a hammer to my scumbuddies.

But, I am town and I am giving it time even tho it should legit just be Andante/Cephrir/tictac here.

If Ceph is scum that's gonna fuck me up tbh.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but like:
Bears is obvtown from all three heads; Bears is basically conftown from role; Bears is molded when mold is a scum ability; Bears cannot be scum.
You would know yourself to be town (and I believe it); you have been molded; you are not scum.
I am town; I have been molded; I am not scum.
Malakittens is almost certainly town by both role and play; if she is town, the number of scum candidates thus shrinks considerably.

Who does that leave?

For three scum:
{Norwee, Cephrir, Andante, tictac}.
3/4 of those would be scum.

The only way for Cephrir to be town is if all the rest were not.

The thing is, tho, Norwee is town here. I really wish I could explain the read there, figure out a way to describe why this is Norwee's townplay rather than scumplay. I don't have a way to really express it. Like, I knew Norwee was scum when Norwee was scum, but I couldn't really describe it then, either. I somehow just

knew

. And somehow, I just

know

that Norwee is town here. It genuinely is a soulread, and I just don't see how the soulread there could ever be wrong.

Beyond that, Norwee and I have basically mind melded and been on the same wavelength a lot, another very good indicator of sharing an alignment. Sure, it's not foolproof, but it's very very likely. Norwee has just been...so active, so invested in the game, so genuine, so sincere, I don't see how that's Norwee as scum.

And then we get how Cephrir has just been playing exactly like he plays when he's scum. Yes, the meta I am using, I have used for a long time--but I legit don't think it is outdated in spite of the age. Most players who have played for the length Cephrir has will have their meta shift, but in the case of Cephrir, I genuinely just don't think his scumplay HAS shifted from my model.

If you take it for granted that I am town (and I am) and knowing that Bears is town and having a good idea that Mala is town, then it's both that Norwee is town by every metric and Cephrir looks like scum to me.

[mastina]

but mastina is my gut based on past looking at votes.

I voted Ircher the first time I logged in both D1 and D2. My placement on the wagon is irrelevant to VCA because had I been online like 12-16 hours earlier my votes would be like second or third rather than near the back.

I voted Dunnstral after being asked to by you, but Dunnstral was already a scumread of mine the entire game. And the fact of the matter is, I DID move my vote to Dunnstral after you asked me to. I was under no obligation to do so as scum. I could have feigned stubbornness on pushing a Cephrir scumread and/or try to get you to sheep me and dissuade you from voting Dunnstral. I could have just not acknowledged you. But I didn't; I moved because you

asked

me to, and Dunnstral was already a scumread, so I was willing to sheep you.

The only times I've not voted

confirmed

scum is when I have voted my game-long callout of scum. (Cephrir.)

The fact my name has come up so consistently all game for 0 reason should tell you something

The fact that you have

survived

when your name has come up so consistently when all others whose names came up have not should tell me something, too.

lets yeet andante
i feel terrible for not doing so long ago

I AM willing to vote there if we're all ready to, so to speak, risk it, because imo it's actually not that much of a risk.

But, obviously: no need to rush mylo because it IS mylo. Mislim, we loose; wrong yeet, we lose. So, we have the luxury of taking time. To

some

extent, it will probably end up as an, "oh well if we're wrong we're wrong" moment, in that if Bears all collectively decide Andante scum (as in universal across all 3 heads) and you say Andante is scum that's probably good enough (Norwee is already there, I am already there). Bonus points if Roden is also on board.

Not sure if that makes sense, but basically:
I'm pretty damn sure Andante is scum.
If we, collectively, are willing to risk the game on Andante right now, then there's no need to wait and we can just pile the votes on without a care.
But if we are not willing to risk the game on Andante being scum right now, then there's no need to rush, because we have the luxury of time and can take said time to make the best possible decision today.

[mastina]

what, using their abilities as though they were town? i do that shit all the time

I mean the mods literally didn't give me a grandfather clause (generally speaking when you make a rule change it is best to start enforcing it

after

any currently-running game has completed but I will have

words

to say on that when this game finishes, believe you me) and handed me a warning for this very behavior in that, yes, as scum I basically DO exclusively use my abilities in an incredibly town-looking way in order to get the towncred from it. So this is true in that

in theory

it could be scum...

...But

in practice

, it's just not.

If I'm scum against mastina this game, why haven't I killed her yet?

Because you don't respect my towngame?

You genuinely see it as no threat; why the fuck would you ever kill me when you think my towngame is a joke?

I can be a nuisance to you when scumreading you; I can be annoying to you when I scumread you. But in your eyes I am not a threat to you.

Now granted. Obviously, I have a higher opinion of my towngame than you do; I personally would like to think that I am in fact a credible threat because I can in fact get people to work with me and can in fact be quite accurate and I'm basically unyeetable so a 1v1 against me is borderline unwinnable for a scum player.

...But while *I* think that of myself, it doesn't matter what *I* think of my townplay. It matters what

the scum

think of my townplay--you included. And you don't think I'm a threat to you.

true but i mean like, mastina is not interested in listening

I mean--my reads are never as certain as I pretend they are.

So like.

I'm not actually 100% on you being scum no matter how much I may pretend I am.

But like.

While there is the paranoia of "what if I'm wrong?" with every town post you make, with every good point you raise, with the gut pangs from your posts which make me think "this actually sounds town"...

...I still come back to scum because who else could be scum if not you, Ceph?

It's not Bears. They're town for literally every possible reason a slot could be town.
It's not Norwee. I just can't see Norwee as scum here.
The only possibilities are {Malakittens, Roden}.
Roden has looked town to me the entire game, has been molded when we know mold is a scum ability, and has Ircher interactions that don't look like those of a scumbuddy.
Malakittens has looked town to me the entire game and the use of her role has been the towniest possible usage of it which makes her look like town.

And then there's the fact that you do overall still scream scum the way you have when scum in the past.

So like.

How is it possible for you to

not

be scum, here?

Where is it that I could be going wrong?

I just don't see how I could be.

[mastina]

one of them killed lld
and its mastina

Respectfully, if I was going to kill LLD, it'd have been N1 or not at all. (And since LLD can't protect herself and no other source of killstopping N1 has been claimed, LLD's protection is the only possible source of a failed N1 nightkill.)

Who would I have killed?

Greeting/catboi? Greeting, hell no; Greeting is in no way shape or form a thread. And as for catboi? I don't give a fuck about catboi/petapan. I realize people think he's a very good player, but I've never seen it. I've never encountered this alleged skill. I've heard more about catboi's scumgame which is definitely impressive but I've not seen his towngame. I never kill there.

You? Maybe in 2015 but in this day and age, Mala, you're so "out" of games that you're not really a threat. (No offense meant, but it's the harsh truth.)

T3/Val? Definitely not.
TWIE? Definitely not.
Galron? Definitely not.
Toogeloo? Definitely not.
StD? Definitely not.
Dwlee/Andante? Definitely not.
tictac? Definitely not.

Cephrir? Ahahaha no. I don't kill Ceph ever.

Tet? I mean, it's

possible

, but while Tet is a mandatory kill before lylo, Tet's not exactly on my N1 list. Tet's mostly a scaling threat: not a threat immediately, but a threat the longer the game goes on. So N1 is a waste.

Bell? Okay I would kill Bell N1, so that's

one

possible N1 candidate that's not LLD, but I can tell you that I'd prefer LLD over Bell because while Bell is obvtown and Bell has good reads, Bell has absolutely zero charisma and is the Creature of this day and age: zero ability to convince others that he's right. So while it's

possible

I'd kill him N1, LLD would override him in priority. In other words, while Bell would be an N1 kill candidate

in a vacuum

, when

compared to other options

, never.

MUSH? This is my first game with MUSH and off of D1 nothing MUSH did or said was really kill-worthy.

Roden? I've played with Roden, what, twice? Roden was decent, and eventually a threat, but is similar to Tet in being a

scaling

threat. Not a N1 threat to take care of, and honestly, not as scary as Tet. Competent, skilled, but not kill-worthy except in specific niche situations.

The one and ONLY slot that could rival LLD for an N1 kill is The Three Bears, because of the triple threat. However, LLD is imo more of a threat and more scary than Bears is because while Bears is incredibly obvtown and reasonably accurate and reasonably charismatic, they are not as charismatic as LLD and their accuracy is far less consistent than LLD's.

So I never kill anyone but LLD N1 here; the fact that LLD lived to see D2 is proof that I am town.

Can I get a list of everyone's stances?

Andante/Ceph/Tictac scummy
Rest are townreads.

^

[mastina]

I hate the no lim

I wonder which three slots voted for it?

I wonder which three slots I have suspicion on?

Just a thought.

[mastina]

I mean i also scumread Tictac so it wouldn’t be that much of an difference to me, would like to see what Three Bears or Mastina thinks though.

tictac's the least scum of them imo.

If

there's a deepwolf, then there's a chance for tictac to be town so Ceph and Andante piling on there to me is "either tictac's the least valuable scum role or there's a deepwolf and tictac's town".

So I prefer Andante or Ceph honestly.

[mastina]

If Tictac/Ceph/Andante scum then they'd be pretty boxed in atm. Not much to do other than buss.
Of course the exception is if 2 are scum, Tictac town, and 1 deepwolf we don't know about. But i feel killing Andante at least will hit scum since Tictac is being encouraged as an vote from both them+Ceph.

^This. (Have I mentioned Norwee's town?)

[mastina]

I am having trouble figuring out something to actually say (brain kinda scrambled), but I've been around, reading offline

if u doing this. just pop in and say "i'm present"

Against my principles so no.

they claimed conftown and it wasn't true.

It was tho.

Bears claimed to enable Jesse's vig.

We know that Jesse's vig had an enabler.

Bears is un-CC'd in being the enabler.

The enabler is far far more likely to be town than scum, so Bears is basically conftown from their claim.

like scum has an abiliity that conftowns people and they used it 3 times?

Four times, actually, given Toogeloo's claim.

We don't know the mechanics of the mold.

We know the mold is a scum ability, per scum TMI communicated to us from the beyond.

But we don't know what it actually

does

.

There's literally half a dozen roles it could be which could make molding multiple town players worth it.

[mastina]

they actually in prod range tho. i don't think she'd do that 4 strat reasons

I mean...I

can't

anymore per a certain rule change that the mod team might as well have called "the mastina rule", so you're correct, I wouldn't do it for strategic reasons, but only because doing it for strategic reasons would earn me a ban.

If it wasn't recently made against site rules tho, I absolutely would.

[mastina]

To be honest at this point I actually prefer Andante over Ceph.

[mastina]

If it wasn't recently made against site rules tho, I absolutely would.

(basically, anything that is not against my principles and not against site rules, I would do in order to play to win. There is huge overlap between my principles and site rules. Things like the honor rule, not playing on multiple accounts, etc. are obvious examples; they are against site rules, but even if they were not, they are against my principles. There are certain things in my principles not covered by site rules which I will never do tho. And there are certain things that are covered by site rules that I very much would do as not being against my principles--but because they are site rules, I must abide by them. Thus, I will play to my wincon and do anything that is not against site rules or my principles. Prior to the rule change, dipping into prod range deliberately would not be against the site rules and would not be against my principles so I would in fact do it to play to my wincon. But post-rule-change, it IS against the rules even though it's not against my principles so even tho it'd be playing to my wincon, eating a ban for it would not be worth the win.)

[mastina]

Hi.

?

If this is about VCA, then:

but mastina is my gut based on past looking at votes.

I voted Ircher the first time I logged in both D1 and D2. My placement on the wagon is irrelevant to VCA because had I been online like 12-16 hours earlier my votes would be like second or third rather than near the back.

I voted Dunnstral after being asked to by you, but Dunnstral was already a scumread of mine the entire game. And the fact of the matter is, I DID move my vote to Dunnstral after you asked me to. I was under no obligation to do so as scum. I could have feigned stubbornness on pushing a Cephrir scumread and/or try to get you to sheep me and dissuade you from voting Dunnstral. I could have just not acknowledged you. But I didn't; I moved because you

asked

me to, and Dunnstral was already a scumread, so I was willing to sheep you.

The only times I've not voted

confirmed

scum is when I have voted my game-long callout of scum. (Cephrir.)

Don't fucking discriminate against me based on my timezone of posting and look at the bloody TIMESTAMPS of the votes. How much time passed between my last post, the votes accumulating, and my vote. (For instance, the time between my last post on D1, and my first post on D2 which was an Ircher vote, and the time it took for those other Ircher votes.)

If this is about me not posting, then: I literally posted multiple times less than twelve hours ago? I'm here and around and posting.

So this is a ? regardless.

I'm never scum here from my votes; I'm never scum here from my activity.

[mastina]

mastina is the only possible scum on too many wagons.

What wagons would that be?

Ircher on D1?

My vote was hard-bound by my promise to sheep LLD. I was always going to vote whoever LLD did on D1 regardless of what alignment I rolled. (I

might

have still voted Ircher without that promise, but I also probably would've just voted Ceph.)

Ircher on D2?

I literally said all of D1 that I wanted to vote for Ircher and did not believe the claim; I was cynical in thinking that the town would let him live until D4--so when there was a wagon on him D2, I wasn't going to let the momentum on that dissipate.

Cephrir on D3? I was the only one voting Ceph on D3.

Ceph on D4? Pretty sure I was alone in voting Ceph there.

Dunnstral on D4?

You literally

asked

me to vote there

. I'd have preferred to keep my vote on Cephrir otherwise. It was YOU asking me to move to Dunn that made me move to Dunn. (And, again, as scum, I was under no obligation to. I could have invented half a dozen reasons to stay off of Dunnstral.)

Ceph on D5? I was the only one voting Ceph on D5.

Ceph on D6? I might've had Norwee join me there but otherwise I was alone in voting Ceph on D6.

'Cause those are genuinely the only votes I've cast the entire game.

One vote that was hard-bound to whoever LLD was voting and was a decision I made before I had gotten a role PM.
One vote that I made very clear on D1 that I wanted to make on D2.
Four votes on the same player that I have scumread the entire game.
And one vote that

your hydra asked me to make

, and I followed through on it because I had no reason not to--I had no reason not to because I am town and I was scumreading Dunn; if I was scum, I had a pretty damn obvious reason not to!

And under this theory of Mastina!scum who are their teammates and who are the town?

^That.

If you think I'm scum with Andante then fucking vote Andante with me

first

. I am willing to vote for Andante and at this stage actually think I prefer that.

If you think I'm scum with Cephrir, then fucking vote Cephrir with me

first

. I've been calling for Cephrir's death for longer and at the same strength that your hydra has for Dunnstral.

If you think I'm scum with tictac, then I will gladly vote tictac with you.

Any scumteam that requires me to be scum with any of the above?

Vote the name up there

first

, because the only options are:
Either I am scum who is willing to bus AGAIN after having already double-bussed...

...OR, I am town who is actually not scum and I am trying to vote for scum.

And if your scumteam

doesn't

involve any of the names above?

Well then you're literally calling 2/3 of {Malakittens, Norwee, Roden} scum because for me to be scum and not be scum with any of tictac/Andante/Cephrir means that my scumbuddies would need to be among the remaining players.

So either your options are:
I am scum with a player that I am willing to bus (in which case: join me in voting that player),
Or I am town who is going to vote scum (in which case: join me in voting that player).

Those are the ONLY two possible worlds.

{tic, Mastina & andante}

So name which of tictac and Andante you want me to vote, and I will be voting them.

[mastina]

Mastina you want to vote Andante? Seems more likely than Ceph today.

Yes, but I am waiting. Titus might be literally gamethrowing a game that we by all rights SHOULD have locked, by her suspicion on me, but while her voting for me may be gamethrowing, I still owe her the time/chance to show her work and from it, create a better version. (Granted, tempted to do some vca of my own anyway, but that'll have to wait until I am home from work.)

[mastina]

I hate the sudden Bears vs Mastina thing. I feel so certain that both of them are town...

That's because we ARE both town.

Titus is genuinely on the edge of throwing the game with that vote/suspicion.

I am town here by every metric.

This is not my scumgame.

I am infected by mold, which we know is a scum power that has targeted exclusively town. (And I am phoneposting so I hope that the listmods don't ban me for saying that I don't fakeclaim as scum because I can explain the why within the updated site rules, just not while phoneposting.)

I have a very damn strong preference for not bussing.

I have no viable scumbuddies and even if I did, I'd be willing to vote for them (barring them being Mala/Norwee), which means that we always vote for the alleged scumbuddies BEFORE voting me.

So I am town here, pretty damn obviously so.

But so are Bears.

[mastina]

I hate the sudden Bears vs Mastina thing. I feel so certain that both of them are town...

That's because we ARE both town.

Titus is genuinely on the edge of throwing the game with that vote/suspicion.

I am town here by every metric.

This is not my scumgame.

I am infected by mold, which we know is a scum power that has targeted exclusively town. (And I am phoneposting so I hope that the listmods don't ban me for saying that I don't fakeclaim as scum because I can explain the why within the updated site rules, just not while phoneposting.)

I have a very damn strong preference for not bussing.

I have no viable scumbuddies and even if I did, I'd be willing to vote for them (barring them being Mala/Norwee), which means that we always vote for the alleged scumbuddies BEFORE voting me.

So I am town here, pretty damn obviously so.

But so are Bears.

(Okay, so I might be able to explain the why of not fakeclaiming as scum even while phoneposting, but:
I wouldn't be able to multiquote, making the argument weaker, and it would take an absurdly long time, when I only have AT MOST half an hour.

Which is another reason that the rule change is bullshit.

It discriminates against both phoneposters and autistic individuals.

Saying, "I don't fakeclaim as scum" is shorthand. It's provably and definitively not entirely true, because I actually can and have. But using it as shorthand is convenient for saving time and effort instead of the far lengthier description of, "it would be a bad idea for me to fakeclaim here as scum for this very long list of reasons".

And yet, the former, the shorthand, is now illegal by site rules, while the latter is legal.

One of the two takes 30 seconds to say. Nobody actually takes the shorthand incredibly literally and thinks that I would never fakeclaim as scum even when it's advantageous to do so; everyone has the understanding that the shorthand is exactly that: a shorter version of the longer version.

A longer version which takes 30 minutes to type, mind you, and which is better with multiple quotes which is impossible while phoneposting.

Basically: it takes far more time and effort, not to mention, restricting against phoneposters, not to mention, discriminating against neurodivergent individuals, to explain what the shorthand already conveyed.

Thus: bullshit rule change.

And I will have VERY strong words to say after this game has ended about how atrociously the mod team has handled this, but I can't do so while this game is ongoing. But while I get that the rule change needed to be made at some point, their policy and the wording of the rule and their enforcement and more is all absolute horseshit.)

[mastina]

I hate the sudden Bears vs Mastina thing. I feel so certain that both of them are town...

That's because we ARE both town.

Titus is genuinely on the edge of throwing the game with that vote/suspicion.

I am town here by every metric.

This is not my scumgame.

I am infected by mold, which we know is a scum power that has targeted exclusively town. (And I am phoneposting so I hope that the listmods don't ban me for saying that I don't fakeclaim as scum because I can explain the why within the updated site rules, just not while phoneposting.)

I have a very damn strong preference for not bussing.

I have no viable scumbuddies and even if I did, I'd be willing to vote for them (barring them being Mala/Norwee), which means that we always vote for the alleged scumbuddies BEFORE voting me.

So I am town here, pretty damn obviously so.

But so are Bears.

BTW I meant to do this in
A prior game, but I should PROBABLY clarify the difference between gamethrowing and gamethrowing.

Yes, I just typed the same exact word twice, that's WHY I need tor clarify the diffeence between the two.

Can't do that while phoneposting, but basically:

As far as I know, neitpher word has a synonym to differentiatve between the two.

As far as I know ,6 each can be said exactly the same way no mattwr what.

But one is severe, and not what I ever mean, and the other is more mild and human, and is my intended definition.

But, phoneposting, so it'll need to wait.

[mastina]

Or is that simply what you need to push to save Andante.

Sure seems that way to me.

(Btw I know I didn't get the VCA, or explanation of why I wouldn't fakeclaim in this game as scum along with a note change for why the rule change of saying 'no fakeclaim as scum is a trust tell' is bullshit, or the differentiating between gamethrowing and gamethrowing, and I do apologize; I was too tired last night, and with the closing shift into opening shift I have today, I won't be able to until Thursday at the earliest, sorry. But, plenty of time then so with luck will do so then.)

[mastina]

I’m a very subjective player.
And the greatest strenght of town is that they KNOW that they are town.
I can see that Mastina does not make sense as scum here, they just don’t.
But know who does? andante.

It's like there are two of her

Spoiler:

Norwee if it weren't for the fact that I am an atrocious hydra partner (I have like an 80% flake rate on partners, I leave avatars/signatures/passwords/account names to my partner, they do 90% of the work and all for a 20% chance of interacting with me), I would legit love to hydra with you. <3

HURT: Andante

Intent to vote Andante

Will do so after work tomorrow.

[mastina]

VOTE: andante

Yo, at work, so I don't have the ability to say much, including not being able to say what I was going to this afternoon, but since SOMEONE hammered, it's not like I will get a chance to.

I wanted to investigate Tictac more since Tictac called for Galron sending mail.

But Tictac is ascetic.

I wanted a chance to check his iso out to see if my memory there is accurate, see if there was an inconsistency, etc., but I won't be able to.

I wanted to do my own vca, but I won't be able to.

I wanted to explain the why behind why I wouldn't fakeclaim this game, within the boundaries of the new rules. (Again, I can do so--just, not while phoneposting, since it requires quoting both myself and Toog.)

And more.

I was almost certainly going to vote Andante after that, but I wasn't ready YET.

So I think that the hammer, of Tictac NOT ONLY denying me the chance to do this work, BUT ALSO preventing me from being able to have my name on the scum elimination by having effectively stole my spot, is a scumclaim from Tictac.

[mastina]

there really is only two scum left. interesting. anyways i'll be back after a concert. im busy rn.

-noraa

So it's just Ceph/Tictac, then.

[mastina]

...Why are there only four scum? 3P is impossible at this point, right? With the Mala kill we know for sure that scum aren't hunting for the Mold distributor, so it has to be a scum role. But why only four? I half considered that Andante could've been a Death Godfather, or really any of the past town flips, but I know that's just unlikely. I genuinely feel bad voting Andante now though...

Presumably, whatever the mold is, makes up for the lost member.

I agree that it doesn't make sense for there to be only 4 scum, but we know that is the case now.

That said, I distinctly recall that someone said 4 scum earlier in the game; I wanna find who, as that could've been TMI.

[mastina]

Once we get our dead chat phone call settled, should we actually No Elim today? I don't think any more kills will be as obvious as the Mala one at this point.

If we nolim, the most likely kill is Bears, since everyone else is claimed VT. (You, me, Ceph, Norwee.)

Discounting Tictac, obv.

So, while we COULD, to see who the scum kill, I'd prefer not to.

[mastina]

there really is only two scum left. interesting. anyways i'll be back after a concert. im busy rn.

-noraa

So it's just Ceph/Tictac, then.

Imagine reading yesterday and showing up to today still unironically peddling this dreck.

I mean.

What makes that not be the team?

A vote on Tictac that we now know was not during Mylo?

[mastina]

No message?

I assume incompetence as the only options are sending to scum who didn't claim, Malakittens in spite of her being the obv kill, or tictac the ascetic.

Best I can think of is to reread Day 7 and see if anyone TMI'd that it wasn't actually ELo.

This, but for TMI of only 4 scum. I can't do that until Thursday, but I'll see what I can do then.

That's what I was thinking, but that's also the easy answer, and every time we tried to vote for the easy answer the past three days, we ended up flipping town. I'm hesitant to just say "yeah it's probably Tictac" after we said "yeah it's probably Galron/Toog/Andante" and barely even got any info out of the flips.

I mean Galron was just incompetence. There was no way Galron was scum there. You pushed that through in spite of me literally giving you the reasons why Galron should've just been town.

Toogeloo fakeclaimed as town--during massclaim. That biased our perspectives by giving us faulty information and making us operate under false assumptions.

Yesterday, for Andante, we assumed yesterday was mylo. That was a false assumption.

False assumptions may have led to the Toog/Andante mislims, but those two flipping town does not mean the poe in of itself was wrong. It just meant that we had faulty assumptions that led us to eliminate the town in the PoE first, before the scum. But the PoE basically

can't

be wrong.

me doing everything in my power to avoid a town elim?

That in of itself is arguably TMI.

Yesterday was not mylo. Town could die without the town losing the game. So scum defending the town mislim sets that scum up for mylo.

why would i bus tictac in that situation? it would be suicide

If it actually went through, sure. But scum had the knowledge that yesterday wasn't actually mylo so they had the knowledge that quickhammers would never be a real thing, which meant that voting tictac was far less risky.

Fake Vote: tictac

HURT: tictac
+1 to this.

I think that tictac is actually the best elimination here, even though I still believe Ceph is scum per the above. As for why tictac,

i think if we have 2 scum with molding ability then Tictac is prob one, and the other is fake claiming being molded to get townread for it.

^This would be why.

(And, again: Norwee saying what I was thinking before I could say it? Proof that Norwee is town.)

[mastina]

like her reads were good good good and then they just went totally downhill. i need to revisit her day 1 reads with the current flips in mind

My reads never stopped being good, with the exception of Toogeloo and Andante. I had Galron as locktown for instance, and have been calling Ceph scum the whole game. I've also been calling you town which you know to be correct, so my accuracy here is just fine, thankyouverymuch.

Page 232 shows Tictac "forgetting" we didn't have a "mislim banked" or whatever. If that's something you'd be looking for.

Also tictac pushed for a no-lim when, per the mold existing, that would be a hilariously bad idea.

liked mastina being pissed that i stole her rightful place on scum-andante wagon, but then she updated not at all on town-andante

You might not have hammered a wagon on scum for the towncred, but what you

did

do was get a fast-pass to mylo.

And, what I said about the denial of information remains true. You prevented me from having a chance to analyze more, as I had intended to do later that day.

The exact reasons for why the hammer was a scumclaim have changed, sure! That the hammer was a scumclaim has not, because it still very much was one.

[mastina]

I’m more in doubt of whether Roden or Mastina could possibly be scum.

Roden is

possible

, I admit, but incredibly unlikely.

We know mold is probably scum.

We know that Roden claimed molded.

Roden has seemed town by play the entire game.

And Roden's interactions with flipped scum (as well as their interactions with Roden) strongly indicate Roden to be town.

The only way Roden could be scum is if Roden fakeclaimed the mold to be set up as a deepwolf via crossbussing shenanigans and Roden's scumgame is much better than I have given credit for.

But even if Roden

was

scum, who would it be with?

Not you; you're town.
Not Bears; Bears is town.
Not me; I am town.

The options would be Roden/Cephrir or Roden/tictac--and I don't see any world where we eliminate Roden first, there; it should always be whichever of Cephrir/tictac you most strongly believe is the best player to eliminate. Especially given that if Roden is in fact town as I believe, then the scumteam would just be Ceph/tictac.

[mastina]

Mastina show me a world in which town can win here.

Easy; eliminating two scum in a row. Ideally mold-source-scum first.

It's really not that hard. You just need to eliminate the scum.

I am aware Ceph just cased tictac as scum. I'm ambivalent about whether it's genuinely not scum-scum or if it's scum distancing, but I actually think that no matter what, tictac is the right elimination here. The only world where tictac isn't scum is if it's Cephrir + Roden, but I seem to recall midgame interactions that very strongly suggest that wouldn't be the case.

I can go back to verify these on Thursday to be sure, but I just think that tictac's the best elimination here by far.

[mastina]

Basically.

Bears is never scum here. I've said this for the whole game, and there's a plethora of evidence to support this. The modslip that townspewed them; that they were molded; that this is all three heads' towngames by a landslide; by them being heavily against Ircher; by them hard-hard-HARD pushing Dunnstral; by their hydra's hydraness being on display with clear times where they lacked synergy and then needed to talk it out to create synergy.

Norwee is never scum here. He's been on the same exact wavelength as me the entire game in a way that scum cannot orchestrate. There's no way that he can think the same things I do, before I actually think them. He's playing to his town meta and he's basically just radiating town energy, an aura that I can just

see

. I am sticking to my soulread there because that soulread is never wrong.

I am town.

With 6 alive and the above 3 as town, that means 2/3 of the following are scum:
{Cephrir, Roden, tictac}.
Whoever you call town in there, you must call the other two scum.

I've had Roden as town due to Roden playing as I would expect Roden to play as town combined with Roden's interactions with scum combined with Roden's claim of being molded combined with Roden's flavor being a very important character (altho I admit it's a bit strange that Polaris is a VT; I honestly thought Polaris was the vig enabler because flavorwise it makes a whole lot more sense for Polaris to enable the vig than it does for her brother to enable the vig because Polaris is kinda sorta merged with Jesse? Kinda sorta empowers Jesse? It's a bit hard to explain, but Polaris is bonded with Jesse, is her biggest ally, is the source that allows for fighting against The Hiss, so I thought Roden was the enabler until Roden claimed VT).
But I admit that, this being mylo, I do in fact need to give Roden a more thorough look to see if the townread holds or if the above are weaker than I thought or if the above are outweighed by the reasons for Roden to be scum.

Basically, if I were to trust my game-long reads it'd be {Cephrir, tictac}.
If I were wrong on Cephrir/Roden, it'd be {Roden, tictac}.

But I genuinely don't see the world where tictac is ever town here. Yes, I will need to look into Ceph-Roden interactions to see if they're scum-scum, but while there's reasons for Ceph to be town and there's reasons for Roden to be town, there...really isn't any reason for tictac to be town.

At all.

[mastina]

Actually ima just put the money where my mouth is.
I 100% agree with the opinion that Tictac has to be scum here.
I know there has been townflips earlier but Galron did indeed fake claim when he shouldn’t have, and Andante i feel would have been the lim today on an Tictac!scumflip anyways.
So my reads are not really proven to have been wrong based on those flips. It’s just unlucky distractions imo. So i don’t see the need to re-evaluate away from Tictac!scum. So i say, kill Tictac today. Find the partner tommorow.
VOTE: Tictac

Didn't I just lay out a plan that would force tictac to vote first?

Please pay attention.

My homicide trial is done. I'm very annoyed though as this gives me little confidence in anyone's ability to follow instructions.

~Mama

Pardon my goldfish memory, but where were those instructions?

I legit have absolutely zero memory of any plan regarding Tictac.

[mastina]

So you're treating this as 2vs4?

Yes.

There's three possible worlds.

World number one: mold is a scum ability. That means it is a 2v4. So the correct option is to treat it as such.

World number two: mold is a 3p ability, but the 3p is non-malevolent. In that situation, the 3p is not a threat to the town and I can't think of a single player here who, if they were 3p (barring tictac but tictac is just scum), hasn't shown genuine scumhunting. You, Norwee, Roden, Ceph, all have shown what, if you were 3p, would be real scumhunting. So the 3p in this scenario still helps the town in eliminating the scum, tictac.

World number three: mold is a 3p ability, and is malevolent. In this situation, we still aim for eliminating scum, and leave eliminating the mold to the last remaining scum. We, admittedly, cannot prevent the malevolent mold from winning on its own by votes, but presumably, the scum would not be able to win with the mold either and thus would need to eliminate the mold in order to win.

In all three worlds, we aim to eliminate two scum. And I still believe we are in the first world.

I detailed about fake voting to force the scummy people to vote first.

Oh, that.

Well, it seems tictac is refusing to play along, given...

lets see if sanity has a chance here
VOTE: no yeet

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

[mastina]

So you're treating this as 2vs4?

Yes.

There's three possible worlds.

World number one: mold is a scum ability. That means it is a 2v4. So the correct option is to treat it as such.

World number two: mold is a 3p ability, but the 3p is non-malevolent. In that situation, the 3p is not a threat to the town and I can't think of a single player here who, if they were 3p (barring tictac but tictac is just scum), hasn't shown genuine scumhunting. You, Norwee, Roden, Ceph, all have shown what, if you were 3p, would be real scumhunting. So the 3p in this scenario still helps the town in eliminating the scum, tictac.

World number three: mold is a 3p ability, and is malevolent. In this situation, we still aim for eliminating scum, and leave eliminating the mold to the last remaining scum. We, admittedly, cannot prevent the malevolent mold from winning on its own by votes, but presumably, the scum would not be able to win with the mold either and thus would need to eliminate the mold in order to win.

In all three worlds, we aim to eliminate two scum. And I still believe we are in the first world.

I detailed about fake voting to force the scummy people to vote first.

Oh, that.

Well, it seems tictac is refusing to play along, given...

lets see if sanity has a chance here
VOTE: no yeet

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

OK, so why in your mind is Tictac not been yeet yet as an ascetic who should've been gone long ago, and do you think the power balance and flips indicates a 4 person scumteam?
What do you think the mold actually does? If you're aware of the lore around it, do you see it matching up?

Tictac wasn't yeeted D1 because if you look at tictacs iso, D1 posting was actually reasonably good. It was not egregious enough to be worthy of a D1 yeet.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D2 because we eliminated a different scumbag that day.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D3 because Tet erroneously believed that there was a guilty on TWIE.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D4 because we yeeted a different scumbag that day.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D5 because y'all decided to gamethrow by yeeting Galron. THIS was the day that Tictac SHOULD have been yeeted.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D6 because Toogeloo decided that fakeclaiming as town was somehow a good idea. If not D5, THIS was the day we should've yeeted Tictac, and we probably WOULD have, if not for the fakeclaim.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D7 because we erroneously believed that yesterday was Mylo. HAD WE KNOWN that it wasn't Mylo on D7, we SHOULD have yeeted Tictac. But since we didn't, we operated under false ideas.

Gotta go.

[mastina]

So you're treating this as 2vs4?

Yes.

There's three possible worlds.

World number one: mold is a scum ability. That means it is a 2v4. So the correct option is to treat it as such.

World number two: mold is a 3p ability, but the 3p is non-malevolent. In that situation, the 3p is not a threat to the town and I can't think of a single player here who, if they were 3p (barring tictac but tictac is just scum), hasn't shown genuine scumhunting. You, Norwee, Roden, Ceph, all have shown what, if you were 3p, would be real scumhunting. So the 3p in this scenario still helps the town in eliminating the scum, tictac.

World number three: mold is a 3p ability, and is malevolent. In this situation, we still aim for eliminating scum, and leave eliminating the mold to the last remaining scum. We, admittedly, cannot prevent the malevolent mold from winning on its own by votes, but presumably, the scum would not be able to win with the mold either and thus would need to eliminate the mold in order to win.

In all three worlds, we aim to eliminate two scum. And I still believe we are in the first world.

I detailed about fake voting to force the scummy people to vote first.

Oh, that.

Well, it seems tictac is refusing to play along, given...

lets see if sanity has a chance here
VOTE: no yeet

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

OK, so why in your mind is Tictac not been yeet yet as an ascetic who should've been gone long ago, and do you think the power balance and flips indicates a 4 person scumteam?
What do you think the mold actually does? If you're aware of the lore around it, do you see it matching up?

Tictac wasn't yeeted D1 because if you look at tictacs iso, D1 posting was actually reasonably good. It was not egregious enough to be worthy of a D1 yeet.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D2 because we eliminated a different scumbag that day.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D3 because Tet erroneously believed that there was a guilty on TWIE.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D4 because we yeeted a different scumbag that day.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D5 because y'all decided to gamethrow by yeeting Galron. THIS was the day that Tictac SHOULD have been yeeted.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D6 because Toogeloo decided that fakeclaiming as town was somehow a good idea. If not D5, THIS was the day we should've yeeted Tictac, and we probably WOULD have, if not for the fakeclaim.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D7 because we erroneously believed that yesterday was Mylo. HAD WE KNOWN that it wasn't Mylo on D7, we SHOULD have yeeted Tictac. But since we didn't, we operated under false ideas.

Gotta go.

Sorry, this post isn't finished; special work stuff tonight interrupted me. Can't finish, gotta rotatez but I'll redo the post when first able to.

[mastina]

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

odds of a vote being correct in 2v4: 2/5
odds of a vote being correct in 2v3: 2/4 (> 2/5)
price of a wrong yeet is the same in both

2 votes and no hammer in 2v4 -> min 1 quaranteed scum in pool of 3
1 vote and no hammer in 2v3 -> min1 quaranteed scum in pool of 2

2v3 mech is way better than 2v4 mech.
i'll grant that molding may happen (if norw is town), but don't have a reason to think it has a relevant mech effect at all.


lets compare Titus protocol with doing literally thee opposite in a general case:
1. scummiest player votes (who probably has a poor voting history) then other players vote in a pool that contains that player
2. towniest player votes (who probably has a good voting history) then other player vote in a pool that contains

that towny player

it's pretty easy to see that option 1 goes thru 2 poor odds in order to lead to a coordinated scumyeet when option 2 goes thru 2 better odds.
it trades odds of success for avoidance of responsibility 4 the townie players just because it's more pleasant 4 them and they can.

u spent the day hardpushing me. is the reason u don't have a vote down just cause u think compliance w arbitrary rules is cool?

if i can't have a no-yeet i'm probs voting u, not even 4 this, but cause i think ur stance on molding as a guarantee townstamp from scum is too naive to be believable.

i'd rather do the noyeet tho, so i'll give it 24h yet.

This is egregiously wrong in a way to, using your own words, is a stance too naive to be believable.

In a vacuum, yes, lylo is better than Mylo.

We are not in a vacuum.

In this game, we both have a very obvious nighykill in the form of Three Bears (they are a universal townread with BOATLOADS of reasons to be town), but ALSO the looming threat of the mold.

You are blatantly and egregiously ignoring the very real threat that the mold possesses. And a nolim just means that someone who we COULD have had contributing, would instead be dead.

That, and even your stated reason for scumreading me is bullshit.

If every claim of being molded were a townstamp as you're saying that I am saying, then it'd mean that the scumteam would be precisely you+Norwee. Is that a scumteam which I have proposed?

…No?

…Yeah, thought not.

So, OBVIOUSLY, mold is not a guaranteed town stamp. One of Ceph/Roden MUST be scum. In other words, this post is bullshit in every way.

[mastina]

So you're treating this as 2vs4?

Yes.

There's three possible worlds.

World number one: mold is a scum ability. That means it is a 2v4. So the correct option is to treat it as such.

World number two: mold is a 3p ability, but the 3p is non-malevolent. In that situation, the 3p is not a threat to the town and I can't think of a single player here who, if they were 3p (barring tictac but tictac is just scum), hasn't shown genuine scumhunting. You, Norwee, Roden, Ceph, all have shown what, if you were 3p, would be real scumhunting. So the 3p in this scenario still helps the town in eliminating the scum, tictac.

World number three: mold is a 3p ability, and is malevolent. In this situation, we still aim for eliminating scum, and leave eliminating the mold to the last remaining scum. We, admittedly, cannot prevent the malevolent mold from winning on its own by votes, but presumably, the scum would not be able to win with the mold either and thus would need to eliminate the mold in order to win.

In all three worlds, we aim to eliminate two scum. And I still believe we are in the first world.

I detailed about fake voting to force the scummy people to vote first.

Oh, that.

Well, it seems tictac is refusing to play along, given...

lets see if sanity has a chance here
VOTE: no yeet

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

OK, so why in your mind is Tictac not been yeet yet as an ascetic who should've been gone long ago, and do you think the power balance and flips indicates a 4 person scumteam?
What do you think the mold actually does? If you're aware of the lore around it, do you see it matching up?

Tictac wasn't yeeted D1 because if you look at tictacs iso, D1 posting was actually reasonably good. It was not egregious enough to be worthy of a D1 yeet.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D2 because we eliminated a different scumbag that day.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D3 because Tet erroneously believed that there was a guilty on TWIE.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D4 because we yeeted a different scumbag that day.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D5 because y'all decided to gamethrow by yeeting Galron. THIS was the day that Tictac SHOULD have been yeeted.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D6 because Toogeloo decided that fakeclaiming as town was somehow a good idea. If not D5, THIS was the day we should've yeeted Tictac, and we probably WOULD have, if not for the fakeclaim.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D7 because we erroneously believed that yesterday was Mylo. HAD WE KNOWN that it wasn't Mylo on D7, we SHOULD have yeeted Tictac. But since we didn't, we operated under false ideas.

Gotta go.

Sorry, this post isn't finished; special work stuff tonight interrupted me. Can't finish, gotta rotatez but I'll redo the post when first able to.

Back to this:
Tictac is alive because realistically, we only had a couple days where we could've eliminated Tictac.

As for the power balance: balance wise, I legit don't see how 4 scum is balanced, REGARDLESS of the mold being scum or 3p. We SHOULD have a 5th scum, except…well, we don't.

So whatever the mold does, it NEEDS to make up for the lack of an extra scum.

I believe that if the mold was a benevolent 3p, they'd have claimed by now, since there's genuinely no reason not to.

That there isn't a mold source claim, combined by the game being severely underpowered by only 4 scum, means malevolence, beit malevolent 3p or scum.

Which makes sense, since lorewise, mold is very much not benevolent and is a secondary antagonist in the game.

(Can explain better when home.)

[mastina]

so far i have observer zero mech effect from mold. maybe u have some specific fear youd like to adress rather than general fearmongering?

There's no fearmongering, just facts.

Fact: there has been no player to claim to be the 3p. Given I'm the biggest defender of 3ps onsite, a benevolent 3p has literally no reason to not claim.
Fact: there cannot be 5 scum, we are proven to have only 4.
Fact: we know the dead scum have indicated that the mold was a scum ability. (Whether this is true is not a fact, but that scum did say it is a fact.)
Fact: by the game balance, the game is NOT balanced for only four scum. There MUST be some method of making the game less townsided, by the sheer lack of power the scum have versus what the town has when scum have only 4 members.

Inference: with no benevolent 3p, and with only 4 scum, and with the scum being underpowered, then mold is either scum or malevolent 3p.

This is not really something that can be debated. That inference has to be true.

So what does that inference get us?

Well if the mold is either malevolent 3p or scum, then the mold must, inherently, be

malevolent

.
Malevolence from mold, means that not doing anything against the mold? Is, inherently: a bad idea. We might not know

what

it does. But we know it must do

something

to make up for the lack of a fifth scum. That something must be bad for the town, because if the mold was not bad for the town, then we would need a fifth scum.

seem to remember u saying this of roden as well. ii'll look 4 it if it's relevant.

It is relevant, but not in the way you're trying to paint it as.
If the mold is 3p, then, sure, being molded does not make a player town.

However, we know that it was indicated in a TMI as a scum ability;
We know that the game is not balanced with only 4 groupscum;
We know that there is no reason for a benevolent 3p to not claim here.

Ergo, there is

at least

a 50% chance the mold is a scum ability, raised much much higher if you believe the dead town of the dead scum having TMI spewed it as such.

So, yes: being genuinely molded is a very strong indicator of being town.
With Bears Roden Cephrir all claiming it, not all of those claims are true.
But the true claims among them are far more likely to be town claims.
And Bears's claim is the most town of them.

More than that: you're trying to paint mold as the only reason for my townreads.

It's not.

Bears is town for so many reasons that every time I try to list the reasons Bears is town, I miss something because it's too damn hard to remember that many reasons.

Roden has fairly strong reasons to not be scum. (Now granted. I am still considering Roden as scum since if Cephrir isn't scum then Roden would be.)

I know myself to be town and I would be able to point out reasons why if need be.

So mold is not a free pass to being town as you are saying I am saying. It just supports the already existing reasons.

u neglectected to point out anything that was wrong w the post.

You saying "mold is not problematic" (when we know for a fact that it must be) and you saying "Bears being killed does no harm", is not the same as those things being true.

And given that I said both of those: yes, I did in fact point out what was wrong with your post.

[mastina]

metaing ceph really didnt help. i just find him scummy every game goddamnit

(That's because he's usually scum.)

No coordinated quick hammer + Bears still putting in effort to solve is such a fucking relief tbh

I mean Bears was never going to be scum here.

There's no possible team for a hammer to happen.

One of {tictac, Cephrir}

must

be scum.

I think I'm comfortable doing this.

VOTE: tictac

L-1

This will prove it even more.

[mastina]

So there's no hammer on tictac with both Roden and Bears having posted while tictac is at L-1.

At this stage that means there's a minimum of 1 scum in {tictac, Cephrir, Norwee, (technically me)}.

Norwee is never scum here.

So that means that tictac + Cephrir or tictac + Roden are the only options. (It can't be Cephrir + Roden because if it were, Roden would've hammered.)

[mastina]

If I were a betting man, I might wager that they're doing theater today (because it's mastina)

I've been scumreading tictac since like D5, and had tictac as at null even before that.

That said:

I think that tictac's partner probably realized a long time ago he was never surviving this day and played with that in mind

Given there's still a very high chance you're tictac's scumbuddy?

What you said here is probably true!

...And applicable to you.

When did

you

begin to push tictac, hmm, Ceph?

I'm pretty damn sure I've pushed tictac as scum for much much longer than you have this game.

[mastina]

i wanna say town mastina waits a bit more before voting to see the effect of the 2 votes first.

I did. I waited like 24 hours or so. I

did

debate not voting there; I

did

debate waiting longer. But ultimately, I felt that I had already waited long enough, and that there was nothing to be gained by waiting.

@ mastina it's meaningless to say mold is malevolent if u can't give an example of

how

in practice it could be malevolent.

"If you eliminate the impossible, then whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth" springs to mind.

We know the mold must be malevolent because of the lack of 3p claim and game balance demanding it be so, since a benevolent 3p for balance purposes is considered basically town by any competent game designer.

What the malevolence does, frankly, doesn't matter. It's malevolent. That's all we need to know to know that the mold is bad.

And if you weren't desperately trying to misrep me, you'd find that I have in fact given examples of how the mold could be malevolent.

Mold could be an arsonist like action, able to kill everyone.
Mold could be a vanillaizer, disabling the role of the player infected.
Mold could be a method of proxy-killing, by directing the kill to be done by an infected individual.
Mold could be a roleblock of the players infected.
Mold could be a redirector, able to redirect the actions of the players infected.
Mold could serve as a rolecop, giving information.
Mold could cause everyone except mold to lose.

This is far from a complete list of what the mold

could

do.

But it doesn't matter what it could do.
What matters is the knowledge that

no matter what it does

, it by necessity MUST be malevolent.

It is malevolent from a flavor perspective.
It is malevolent because a benevolent 3p would have zero reason to not have claimed by now.
It is malevolent because game balance demands it, given only 4 groupscum and non-malevolent mold not accommodating for that.

So no matter what bad effect the mold has, it is a bad effect. Period. So your continued insistence on ignoring the dangers of the mold is in fact: scummy as fuck.

[mastina]

(Also my L-1 got more info I feel than me not voting. It spurned Bears into high gear, confirmed what I knew, confirmed scum weren't waiting to hammer, etc.)

[mastina]

when was the "dead thread slip" anyways? perchance the night after mastina claimed molded?

Impossible to tell for sure. However,

I talk with dead people. For example, you know that Tet was blocked N2. I know he was blocked N3 as well. I don't know of a clever way to do it, but I've been chasing things like mail and mold today because Tet mentioned them.

No, I tried LLD but she didn't respond. Tet thought STD sent him mail, and STD confirmed that. He also believed mold was a scum ability of some sort, but I haven't gotten too far with that.

Anyway, I have some news. I got a phone call from the afterlife, specified as "Contact From the Beyond".

apparently scum might've TMI'd a bit

in the dead chat.

Dunn also hinted that the Mold actually is a scum ability

.

Mold got TMI'd as a scum ability according to dead chat.

^This seems to suggest it's unlikely.

Mold could be an arsonist like action, able to kill everyone.

i which case nothing we do today will matter. game would be called already.

Norwee isn't infected and there are two scum. If everyone needs to be infected, and we eliminate the mold today, threat neutralized before it could take effect.

This is also true if, like an arsonist, everyone needs to be infected/doused

before

you hit the 'ignite' button--which would mean even after Norwee was infected, we'd still have a final day phase tomorrow since it would take an extra night phase to hit the 'ignite' switch.

and even this assumes i gamethrew for lols and didn't immolate last night.

Arsonists can't ignite while everyone is not doused. If there were an arsonist who could kill everyone doused without needing to douse everyone? Sure, yes, the game would have ended--so

that version

of arsonist is impossible.

That version, which is a variation and an uncommon one at that, rather than the normal/default version.

And the normal/default version is very much still possible.

so yea. after eliminating the impossible. "no yeet" is the best answer even if "mold is supes weak" is improbable.

Mold being 3p that ends the game is in no way shape or form made impossible by you saying "this isn't the case".

And I very much did not say that mold was unlikely to be a 3p that ends the game--if the mold is 3p, then that would in fact be precisely what the mold

is

. I said the mold could not be benevolent 3p. You are attempting to combine the two, when they are very much separate. The mold cannot be benevolent 3p. The mold very much can be malevolent 3p that ends the game in a solo win.

That, plus the above reasons for why it can still be a dangerous scum action, mean: no, no limming is not a good idea; it is never a good idea.

[mastina]

Oops botched quotes, lemme fix that:

when was the "dead thread slip" anyways? perchance the night after mastina claimed molded?

Impossible to tell for sure. However,

I talk with dead people. For example, you know that Tet was blocked N2. I know he was blocked N3 as well. I don't know of a clever way to do it, but I've been chasing things like mail and mold today because Tet mentioned them.

No, I tried LLD but she didn't respond. Tet thought STD sent him mail, and STD confirmed that. He also believed mold was a scum ability of some sort, but I haven't gotten too far with that.

Anyway, I have some news. I got a phone call from the afterlife, specified as "Contact From the Beyond".

apparently scum might've TMI'd a bit

in the dead chat.

Dunn also hinted that the Mold actually is a scum ability

.

Mold got TMI'd as a scum ability according to dead chat.

^This seems to suggest it's unlikely.

Mold could be an arsonist like action, able to kill everyone.

i which case nothing we do today will matter. game would be called already.

Norwee isn't infected and there are two scum. If everyone needs to be infected, and we eliminate the mold today, threat neutralized before it could take effect.

This is also true if, like an arsonist, everyone needs to be infected/doused

before

you hit the 'ignite' button--which would mean even after Norwee was infected, we'd still have a final day phase tomorrow since it would take an extra night phase to hit the 'ignite' switch.

and even this assumes i gamethrew for lols and didn't immolate last night.

Arsonists can't ignite while everyone is not doused. If there were an arsonist who could kill everyone doused without needing to douse everyone? Sure, yes, the game would have ended--so

that version

of arsonist is impossible.

That version, which is a variation and an uncommon one at that, rather than the normal/default version.

And the normal/default version is very much still possible.

so yea. after eliminating the impossible. "no yeet" is the best answer even if "mold is supes weak" is improbable.

Mold being 3p that ends the game is in no way shape or form made impossible by you saying "this isn't the case".

And I very much did not say that mold was unlikely to be a 3p that ends the game--if the mold is 3p, then that would in fact be precisely what the mold

is

. I said the mold could not be benevolent 3p. You are attempting to combine the two, when they are very much separate. The mold cannot be benevolent 3p. The mold very much can be malevolent 3p that ends the game in a solo win.

That, plus the above reasons for why it can still be a dangerous scum action, mean: no, no limming is not a good idea; it is never a good idea.

[mastina]

Also hasn’t Mastina explained that they don’t really buss as scum?

Yeah, I literally wrote an article on it, and have a recent track record (look at where Suripoko and Rogue are in my readslist and what I did on D2 with Suripoko) to prove that it still applies.

Bussing doesn't give enough town credit to be worth the loss in a member; bussing gives the town a free elimination on scum; bussing can ironically be seen as TMI because town players are more likely to fuck up than scum players so having good reads can be seen as TMI. So bussing is basically never worth it. You're putting the town's spotlight/focus onto a scumbuddy and increasing the odds the town is going to go to the right place, all for what? Towncred that the town doesn't actually give? Because the town expects bussing, because town players are so used to bussing, there's no benefit to bussing.

mastina can you explain how cakez locking the thread conftowned LLD and us

Well, basically: it was direct moderator influence on the game. It was the mod playing along with a fake-vig. That meant that the mod was using their moderator-given knowledge of the game to know the alignments/roles of both participants, and decided to have some personal fun.

That moderator interference doesn't happen if LLD/Bears contains scum.

That, aside from how the interaction hard-spewed both participants as town. SirCakez locking the thread strengthened this. If SirCakez had not locked the thread, then the reactions would have been seen as possibly just reactions. SirCakez locking the thread gave a moderator-approved seal of authenticity of, "yes, these interactions were real, not fake", which hard-spewed you and LLD as town.

Basically, the mod trolling as he called it, revealed moderator info he had access to but which we did not (altho we could infer, from both you and LLD being obvtown anyway). He knew that there would be reactions to be had from his trolling--those reactions would not exist if there were scum in you; he would only know there was something to be gained from trolling if he knew that the participants were town.

It legitimized your reaction to the dayvig and it legitimized the fake-dayvig. It gave us moderator-provided info for free, because SirCakez has knowledge we don't and his actions are painted by that.

There might've been more, even stronger, reasons than that, but I've forgotten them. (I feel like I am missing something really big about just how clearing the modlock was. Like, really big, "this is literally what makes them conftown", big, and the above are lackluster compared to it. But I can't for the life of me remember it, so the above will have to suffice instead.)

if you are town,
the only possible teams are [roden, mastina, cephrir] + tictac
or mastina + cephrir.
rank the four choices in terms of how likely they are

Cephrir + tictac > Roden + tictac >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x infinity Norwee + tictac/Cephrir (because Norwee is never scum here)

Basically, there's zero universes in which tictac is town here, because Norwee is always town here and if either of you/Roden were scum with a non-tictac name, you'd have hammered by now.

[mastina]

Mastina SRs galron and toog. so she doesnt have PERFECT reads.

Actually, my Galron read fluctuated between town and scum in both this game and uPick Normal--
I could tell Galron was playing identically in both, and he even posted about Ircher (from this game) in uPick Normal, telling me he was the same alignment in both.

The problem was, I didn't know

which

alignment that was until uPick Normal ended, revealing he was town.

I went from Galron town both games to Galron scum both games to Galron town both games to Galron scum both games to Galron town both games, and it was off of his posting in both games. When he looked town in one game, it affected my read on him in both games; when he started to look scum in one game, it affected my read on him in both games. Which will show if you iso me in both games. (Btw that should also tell you that I am town here because if I was scum in this game while knowing Galron was sharing an alignment in both games, I'd have locktowned Galron in uPick Normal. As in lock LOCKtowned him. Instead, the read was far more fluid, fluctuating with my doubt. Because I didn't know his alignment here, I didn't know his alignment there.)

all we have to do is find the town in that group and we win.

That would be me. I can give a plethora of reasons for why if you'd prefer, since I'm well out of my scum meta and even disregarding meta there's half a dozen reasons for me to be town in

this

game that aren't meta-related.

the point is to not be paranoid of everyone in the game.

Just be like me and whenever you get paranoid, say "nah fuck that" and double down on your reads! Reverse the paranoia and turn it into absolute conviction that no, you are not wrong.

Works pretty damn well for me.

Malal would say tictac/mastina is the team here. just a thought.

And then she would vote tictac because she also had suspicion on Roden--since a Roden/mastina team is impossible, but theoretically Roden-tictac and mastina-tictac are both possible, she'd vote tictac because tictac would be scum no matter what.

[mastina]

However, we know that it was indicated in a TMI as a scum ability;

Where?

5150 among others. And we know we can trust Roden here--

If Roden were lying about that, then Galron would've said so in the message to me.

That, aside from the fact that the only world where Roden would be scum is Roden + tictac since in any other world, Roden hammers tictac.

Plus, Roden's almost certainly town anyways, so.

The information is reliable.

[mastina]

Knew the Galron wagon felt off. Problem is that Tictac might've been lined up to be the next mis-elim. Which means we have way more deep wolves than I thought and that a bunch of my reads have to be wrong.

Anyway, I have some news. I got a phone call from the afterlife, specified as "Contact From the Beyond". Kinda surprised I was chosen but

apparently

scum might've TMI'd a bit in the dead chat.

Gonna try to paraphrase as best as I can.

First, Tet says that they still don't think STD is scum even after the claim. They don't think it makes sense to RB them and send them a letter, then confirm the presence of a Roleblocker instead of just targeting the town JK or something comparable. Only way that works is if the abilities are tied. They also believe Toog has to get elim'd next, he isn't providing any meaningful input and Tet sees it as scum indicative.

Dunn also hinted that the Mold actually is a scum ability.

Bell says not to immediately go after Tictac because the vibes are bad. We need to explore everything more.

That's all I got. I pretty much agree with everything that was sent to me.

This is nothing concrete. This is speculation from a dead red who is smart enough to know that they win over a neutral 3p.

-Pinkie

I can address this later, but actually, Flea, I just had a breakthrough realization thanks to your posts:

Unless the 3p is an arsonist who needs to ignite during a night phase, there CANNOT be a 3p in this game at all.

Why?

Well:
-There are precisely two players who have not claimed infected. These are Norwee and Tictac.
-There are six players alive. Six, not five.
-There is, presumably, two groupscum alive.
-tictac is at L-1.

What happens when you combine all these points together?

You might be able to figure it out on your own, but if not, I'll explain when I can.

Basically, the above four points mean that it's literally impossible for today to be a kingmaker. There MUST be two scum, and ONLY two scum. (That, or the scumteam is only 3 members strong, which would still mean no kingmaker today.)

[mastina]

Stop trying to make no yeet happen, it’s not gonna happen.

^^^

Just because it is nearly impossible for there to be a 3p does not mean that it is a good idea to nolim.

Not only is there a world where actually yes there is a 3p mold (I literally said how) albeit admittedly not very likely,
Not only will a nolim just mean that Bears is night killed,
But also, the mold most likely being scum makes it a VERY BAD IDEA to nolim.

[mastina]

like tictac, the team is either you and someone or mastina and cephrir. There are no other possibilities. From you point of view me and roden are conftown.
Norwee is not i suppose but you havent even tried to solve as much as i have and im not the one at e-1 right now.

This should tell you what tictacs alignment is.

I have solved a plenty.

So has Norwee.

Ceph, more debatable, but even HE beats put Tictac.

[mastina]

2 months or so ago, in the alternate universe where tictac is town

"hey mastina i have an idea. let's try to throw the game as hard as we possibly can."
"brilliant idea cephrir. you are such a genius. we will win by losing."

I mean.

This would apply in any world where I would be scum.

I can't be scum because I don't have anyone who realistically COULD be scum with me.

You, on the other hand …

[mastina]

i don't think norway is groupscum.

so you think mastina and cephrir is the scum team for sure but instead we should be no limming?
from your perspective, you should be 100% certian thats the team if norwee is town to you. make this make sense please

Tictac is scum, that's how.

[mastina]

NORWEE I TRUSTED YOU D:

*

[mastina]

(the asterisk is for my next post)

[mastina]

Scum had an doctor? Now that’s extremely annoying.
I wanted everyone to die and the setup screws me over like that.

There's another side to that coin, Norwee.

The town commented that the scum weren't hunting for the 3p.

The thing is, we

were

--

With our

roleblock

, instead of the nightkill.

When the scum PT is released (

no redactions

, btw), you'll see that we basically had everything about you nailed down completely (albeit accidentally/fragmented):

I figured out that the mold would show as their safeclaim to a rolecop (kinda sorta).
We both figured out that the mold would have a 1x bulletproof.
After the fact, Cephrir even figured out that your mold was roleblock-immune. (And I was going to write a post about this in the scum PT but ran out of time, basically outlining, "there's X worlds" where some were Norwee-mold related, where we could, or couldn't, block your ignite.)

And most critically of all?

The night immediately following the Andante elimination?

We knew you were the mold.

We knew you were the mold, and we were planning to take advantage of you being the mold in order to guarantee a scum win: we knew that you wouldn't be able to douse tictac so you would need to eliminate tictac, which meant that in the 6p mylo, scum couldn't be voted out. And to make sure of it, we roleblocked you and the plan was for Cephrir to fakeclaim having been molded. (You'll see the why when the PT is released.)

Imagine our surprise when Cephrir, instead of needing to fakeclaim having been molded, was

actually molded

in spite of us having roleblocked you!

So while you say "Scum had an doctor? Now that’s extremely annoying.
I wanted everyone to die and the setup screws me over like that."...

...I can say: Mold had immunity to the roleblock? Now that’s extremely annoying.
I wanted the 3p to not win and the setup screws me over like that.

So I'll call it even.
You got screwed over by the doctor, WE got screwed over by your roleblock immunity!

[mastina]

I don’t want to like have a pity prize. If the wincon was written to be 50% then it’s 50%.

It's okay Norwee, I know the feeling of being 3p that was intending to win solo, only to end up having to share it with the mafia. <3

[mastina]

The whole reason i fought against no lim was because i knew a town lim on Tictac would fulfill scums win condition before i could activate my nuke.

Ditto for me fighting against the no-lim. I fought against it because I knew that if tictac was eliminated with nobody left undoused, the nuke could be fired right then and there.

[mastina]

Anyway i’m grateful for being allowed to win by technicality, but i can’t accept this as an win in my heart :/
I was never supposed to be able to scumside, my goal was to destroy everyone, and i didn’t factor in scum doctor that could block my killing. If i’d known that i would have radically changed my strategy and focused a lot more on killing scum than i ended up doing.

You deserve a Hannibal nom. Arsonist is really hard to play, harder than a serial killer, and you still did extraordinarily well.

I do need to go to bed thanks to opening work shift tomorrow, but this is something I intend to do tomorrow.

(Speaking of which: with this game now ended I will have quite a rant to post tomorrow, too.)

[mastina]

Mod said that you would have had to reapply your mold and then reignite to kill Mastina. If they had ever identified you, and shot you, then they would have won the race.

I mean, if Norwee ignited, then I live thanks to the doctor, and if Norwee needed to reapply the mold, that's me getting rid of Norwee's BP while Norwee reinfects me, and then Norwee pulling the trigger the next night while I also pull the trigger, resulting in us both being dead to each other.

I do lose that race tho if Norwee

didn't

need to redouse me.

[mastina]

massy dont you love us :[

Yes and in this game which is hellish for the town, killing you is a sign of affection, as to end your suffering.

[mastina]

I was certain on Mastina being town until the 3p-denial

I didn't deny the 3p tho?

I said it was impossible for the 3p to be benevolent, which was true, because the 3p wasn't benevolent.

I said the mold would thus inherently be malevolent--which it was.

I knew because I was scum that the mold was 3p, but a town me wouldn't know if it was malevolent-3p or scum-malevolent but I wouldn't

care

because it'd be malevolent regardless.

[mastina]

Subject: CONTROL - Bright Falls

This is never happening this game, but can you imagine a more explosive ending then an arsonist thinking they had the win.

Ignited.

One Mafia lived because of a Mafia doc.

Day start, only arsonist and Mafia.

[mastina]

Also I gotta say I'm kinda disappointed:

Lots of people were saying, "scum are in a tight spot", "scum look like they will lose", "scum are definitely having the walls close in on them", etc....

...But in postgame it was all "gg Norwee you did well" with no mention of the scum having done well.

I worked hard to orchestrate the Cephrir interactions the way we did and yet in spite of hard-bussing him, keeping him alive by going for the town slot three days in a row, and aside from one random comment from Andante and tictac on the last game day after being at L-1, nobody, not a single person without spoilers, suspected that mastina-Cephrir was the scumteam. Everyone who scumread one of us was townreading the other.

[mastina]

Subject: CONTROL - Bright Falls

Worst part, is that he must think he won.

The ascetic player was what he thought was his great hurdle to get past, and he got him, and now he has everyone tagged. He thinks he wins tonight, and he doesnt

I mean we were planning to weaponize that the entire time. Norwee having immunity to being roleblocked threw a wrench in our plans, but we were always planning on making Norwee thought he had won with the tictac elimination when he hadn't.

[mastina]

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but this is the nth time I've been in a game being modded by someone I'm playing with in another game. That's especially problematic when I am scum in either game. Is there an existing conversation about that somewhere? I'd like to check it out.

Oh yeah, being scum in two different games at the same time is

incredibly

rough.

The playerlist overlap made it borderline impossible for me to figure out the optimal play in both games.

Do I play the same way in both games at the same time and risk going down in both the moment I go down in one?

Or do I play in exact opposite ways, but make the players suspect that I am scum in at least one of the games, in the hope that my scumflip in one will clear me in the other? (This is what I opted for btw.)

It's incredibly damn hard.

[mastina]

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but this is the nth time I've been in a game being modded by someone I'm playing with in another game. That's especially problematic when I am scum in either game. Is there an existing conversation about that somewhere? I'd like to check it out.

Oh yeah, being scum in two different games at the same time is

incredibly

rough.

The playerlist overlap made it borderline impossible for me to figure out the optimal play in both games.

Do I play the same way in both games at the same time and risk going down in both the moment I go down in one?

Or do I play in exact opposite ways, but make the players suspect that I am scum in at least one of the games, in the hope that my scumflip in one will clear me in the other? (This is what I opted for btw.)

It's incredibly damn hard.

(Hilariously enough, I ended up killing LLD N2 in both games. So apparently, I'm not scum if LLD dies N1 or lives to D3, but I AM scum if LLD dies N2... )

[mastina]

I have often pondered that topic myself. What is the right choice in terms of “play to win”?

Play to win in both, apparently.