Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[Cephrir]

Sup clodpoles, im the jes-- oh sorry wrong account

VOTE: implosion

[Cephrir]

Such confidence in our alignment, though~

I was counting on someone going oops perspective slip there.

That it's you is concerning.

is it bad that i thought it was kind of valid

also what if we didn't slayers gambit on page 1

[Cephrir]

You're welcome to fake a scum read on us, but you're signing your own elim wagon the next day if so

huh?

[Cephrir]

i think i do, actually. it's fun. sets the vibe.

also, slayers gambit has always been stupid.

[Cephrir]

damn, i had the idea to start pirateposting as a fake scumclaim but it won't land the same without pooky being here.

[Cephrir]

You're welcome to fake a scum read on us, but you're signing your own elim wagon the next day if so

huh?

Missed this. I'm putting BoP on morph to not misread us, and I'm saying that if they claim to scumread us and get us miselim'd, they should be the next day's elim with prejudice.

But we'll see what develops. Like you say, it's page one.

--PA

P-edit: pirate posting will be autocoted tyvm

sure, but if they did invent a fake scumread on you, surely they would retract it before your miselimination. if they didn't, then yeah, i can't see anyone buying that excuse the following day

[Cephrir]

Why are you so wooden?

am i? i feel pretty loose so far!

[Cephrir]

Why are you so wooden?

am i? i feel pretty loose so far!

It was interesting that you stepped into the middle of the dance, though!

you know what they say, it takes three to thrango.

[Cephrir]

i have come to dread red pms lately because my rate of rolling it in the past 2 years has been like 70% or higher

[Cephrir]

im actually a hydra of me myself an i :V

[Cephrir]

would be an odd hydra name if they weren't, really

[Cephrir]

I also know Tammy is recognized as a very strong scum hunter if I'm not mistaken...

She's in the top 90% of scumhunters on site, dontcha know!

--PA

beat me to it

[Cephrir]

Why are you so wooden?

am i? i feel pretty loose so far!

It was interesting that you stepped into the middle of the dance, though!

you know what they say, it takes three to thrango.

Did you get anything useful from it?

maybe a tiny townread on amazons? i expect tammy to be an easy read for me anyways (despite the fact i don't really know what her scum game looks like, shh) so probably not THAT useful

[Cephrir]

i wonder what having solid reads on page 4 is like. it sounds nice.

[Cephrir]

Ceph what are your page 6 thoughts?

i'm liking shirou a moderate amount. they seem at ease and i don't mean because they're talking about how at ease they are/want to be.

i didn't care for fua's first post.

[Cephrir]

i've been reading the thread over the course of the day but still don't really have anything interesting to say unfortunately.

uh oh

[Cephrir]

And yeah, I joined because I was asked by the mod. Presumably because I was active in a normal game.

The only familiar face to me is Ceph and I don’t know his mafia game at all.

i believe you have me at a disadvantage. who're you?

[Cephrir]

i've been reading the thread over the course of the day but still don't really have anything interesting to say unfortunately.

uh oh

elaborate?

this post made me think of nsg's scum meta (of active lurking at best)

[Cephrir]

I tried to think about something more...FUN, and I kinda had a silly idea, but I felt a bit too self-conscious in this playerlist to open the game with it. Well either way that's as far as I know for town, for scum I can imagine multiple fun gambits to do...

:townposting:

[Cephrir]

tried to think about something more...FUN, and I kinda had a silly idea, but I felt a bit too self-conscious in this playerlist to open the game with it.

NSG and both halves of morph are mechanics nerds, you will find safe haven for that sort of topic should you change your mind.

(potentially last post I promise)

I'm also a bit of a mechanical nerd but you see, I don't care as much about the

optimal

thing to do as much as I like having a plan that seems fun and mildly chaotic/unexpected to execute, which often makes me create silly plans that don't actually achieve anything or plans that are too swingy.

Well, but since we barely have anything to talk about at the moment, before I leave I'll mention it I guess.

I thought perhaps we should

massclaim

. Right here in D1, except with a weird and ?silly? rule:

We can lie about ours roles/night.

Therefore you may end up thinking "okay, but what is the difference between doing that and nothing?", and this is my reasoning:

Before we rolled alignments, I was thinking about how to play scum in this setup because as town it seemed simply enough to just claim actions when necessary and scum/town hunt normally. But as scum in this setup, you're gonna need to fakeclaim, and at minimum one of the scum needs to claim either cop or doctor, they can't all claim the same role no matter the setup roll.

I'm not gonna do scum job for them and explain what is sub-optimal to fakeclaim and why, but the fakeclaim you're gonna use in this game is kinda important, but even if you understand what to fakeclaim and when as scum here, the thing is what's "optimal" to fakeclaim depends on what town PRs do and what results they end up with, so basically it's very circumstantial.

As scum I would want to delay my claim here as far as possible so that I can have maximum flexibility to hopefully counter how circumstantial/swingy this setup can get.

Therefore, if we "massclaimed but you're free to lie about it", the people that lied about their roles can camouflage the people that will tell the truth, (scum have the numbers of cops/doctors but that still wouldn't tell much to them about who is lying or not), and in for their turn, the people that later confirm their role as what they initially "claimed" here are more likely than not town/telling the truth (with the caveat that the early your night action is, the "townier" it sounds). Even if scum decides to fakeclaim something here and follow up on it for the "town points"/"WIFOM", they are still gonna be locked on a claim and there's definitely "mechanical penalties" here for scum fakeclaiming early.

There's some other stuff it can do as well but if I explain that part it's quite a bit more pointless, it needs to happen naturally.

Basically, it's a "plan" that perhaps will do literally nothing positive, perhaps there's even the possibility of stuff going wrong and scum correctly identifying the ones that told the truth, but also the possibility that it'll cause they do certain mechanical mistakes which I'm trying my best to not explain in detail at the same time I try to explain the potential positive side of all this.

Hmm, basically, it's less of a "mechanical plan" and more of a silly gamble/gambit. It feels like a too serious/experienced playerlist for this to ever take off so I thought I shouldn't bother mentioning it, but here we are I guess.

i still don't see how this is different from doing nothing, but you can be town for posting it

[Cephrir]

I tried to think about something more...FUN, and I kinda had a silly idea, but I felt a bit too self-conscious in this playerlist to open the game with it. Well either way that's as far as I know for town, for scum I can imagine multiple fun gambits to do...

:townposting:

That's the easy takeaway, the hard one is understanding the path behind 199 so por favor, step up to the NSG-whisperer stage and enlighten us.

i haven't actually played with her especially often! i just got this idea in team mafia somehow and it worked

[Cephrir]

why would that mean anything at any point in the game?

[Cephrir]

so 238 essentially just says "hey look everyone i have handwritten notes" since there is no actual reason for it to exist.

[Cephrir]

No, I was pointing out something I noticed from earlier discussion. My bad if that came off as scum trying to seem active, I kind of just stream of consciousness write a lot of the time. I should really proofread more.

Regardless, do you not find any interesting at all in 172 and the reaction in 173? Do you have any other posts you find more interesting?

172 is one of the least interesting posts in the thread. 173 is mildly interesting.

[Cephrir]

If you want my honest opinion, and do not take this as instant FoS as I think it would be silly to do this over a fairly minor incident, but my gut reaction says that this looks well... a little manufactured. It certainly doesn't seem like a random vote, but it feels like either or both sides could have manufactured a reason to vote.

this is why i sometimes get scumread for squirrelly language isn't it.

[Cephrir]

is there anything that stands out to you?

i have already posted commentary about the things that most interested me as we went along. what else are you looking for?

[Cephrir]

If you want my honest opinion, and do not take this as instant FoS as I think it would be silly to do this over a fairly minor incident, but my gut reaction says that this looks well... a little manufactured. It certainly doesn't seem like a random vote, but it feels like either or both sides could have manufactured a reason to vote.

this is why i sometimes get scumread for squirrelly language isn't it.

Is it like looking in a mirror?

a little bit. i found myself wondering why this simple statement was couched in so much uncertainty and wondering if there was scum motivation for that, then remembered that i do this all the time.

[Cephrir]

Interested in how claiming confusion over hydras is anything but NAI. Like, I've seen scum fake confusion over the mechanics to appear +town. But over hydra composition?

expressing confusion is easier than engaging with the game & they offered excuses for not finding scum before even trying

[Cephrir]

The interaction between Tejate and Ceph from 238 on is pinging me. 238 itself does strike me as a lot of nothing that

could

be scum indicative. Ceph calling him out on it though, for some reason I didn't like it even though I generally agreed with the sentiment. And overall I feel like Tejate is coming out of that back and forth looking towny, and Ceph null-scum.

baffling

[Cephrir]

Interested in how claiming confusion over hydras is anything but NAI. Like, I've seen scum fake confusion over the mechanics to appear +town. But over hydra composition?

expressing confusion is easier than engaging with the game & they offered excuses for not finding scum before even trying

I am engaging with the game though. In fact I did so right after that post. So that’s kind of a skewed way of looking at things without context.

entry posts are special.

[Cephrir]

There are reasons to vote Ceph

Are there? Because you've failed to provide any.

[Cephrir]

That’s because it is OMGUS. He said expressing confusion is easier than engaging with the game while ignoring that I’ve been engaging since then, which feels dismissive.

Perhaps I'm not being clear enough

I found your first post suspicious because it was your first post. I think it can be difficult for scum to feel out the vibe of the thread in a way that allows them to make a non-awkward first post. numberQ (iirc) asked me why I did not like your first post; I have now explained it. I have not particularly commented on how my opinion of you has or hasn't evolved since then, as far as I'm aware.

[Cephrir]

Do you like my other posts?

I would characterize them as fine. 173 I disagree with but I don't think that's necessarily a problem. I am still processing the interaction we're having right now, not sure what I think about that just yet.

[Cephrir]

There are reasons to vote Ceph

Are there? Because you've failed to provide any.

I mean you literally quoted me a few posts back giving a reason to vote you. This is honestly such a strange reaction

VOTE: Cephrir

I did quote 273 wherein you express suspicion of me. However, I don't think anything in that post constitues a reason. If anything you posted the opposite of a reason to suspect me.

[Cephrir]

'Kay.

[Cephrir]

I called you null-scum. How is that the opposite of a reason?

it's a read

a reason would be why you have that read

your join date is in 2011 come on

[Cephrir]

Ceph is giving me major "SE pushing on a mislimmable Newbie in the Newbie Queue" vibes

?? i'm not even pushing anyone

[Cephrir]

ok, i guess that's fair

[Cephrir]

I called you null-scum. How is that the opposite of a reason?

it's a read

a reason would be why you have that read

your join date is in 2011 come on

The reason I have that read is because I looked at your posts and they made me think, "that guy is null-scum". Idk what you're implying by bringing up my join date, but if anything it means I'm comfortable trusting my gut and the general vibes I get even if I don't always put it into exact words. And judging from this interaction that was driven by me acting on my gut, I also feel pretty comfortable saying it's working.

this conversation is ridiculous and i'm done participating in it. have a nice day

[Cephrir]

I can see implosion and GL as a scum pairing.

i was just thinking of emptyvoting one of these two and now my thunder is slightly stolen. v rude.

VOTE: guiltylion

[Cephrir]

fua, why morph town? i was just thinking it's a little alarming i don't have any reason to townread them yet

[Cephrir]

it's weird, i went to bed feeling like no one was scum and have woken up thinking everyone is scum.

[Cephrir]

fua, why morph town? i was just thinking it's a little alarming i don't have any reason to townread them yet

why nsg, too? i don't feel like she has done anything

[Cephrir]

everyone keeps talking about me and tejate having a fight and i don't really feel like that's a thing that actually happened

[Cephrir]

Anyway.

Unvote

VOTE: morph the cat

[Cephrir]

"experience" and "experience with me" are different animals

[Cephrir]

i would estimate ive played with him maybe 2 or 3 times ever but i lack your encyclopedic recollection of past games

[Cephrir]

That game actually had me, ceph, morph and GL. Little wild.

I took a quick look back too and observed that I had you as obvious scun by the end, which makes me feel like I'll be able to read you again.

[Cephrir]

roughly translates to "swagger"

I do have a lot of swag, but I'm afraid I'm not Sigmund.

I know! Sigmund was a Pooky alt and you are not.

Also true. It's relatively easy to figure out who I am if you've played with me before.

Must we do this information asymmetry thing. I dislike it.

[Cephrir]

But even if you don't agree with any of that, just look at the other major point of this post. Ceph claims to like Shirou, despite him ALSO complaining about hydra stuff in his opening post.

Almost as though it is more complex than that as I already stated. And moreover I said I like shiro in general while I only commented on fua's first post (also, it's amazing how fire I've taken for that one extremely normal comment), so this is apples and oranges

[Cephrir]

like when has it ever been a thing that if you have an opinion about one post you must therefore have the same opinion about any similar post AND express that opinion too.

[Cephrir]

To be absolutely fair, Ceph gave these opinions in response to a direct question about his thoughts on page 6, and Shirou's opening post didn't happen on page 6. So in a vacuum, this point is bullshit. But in context with the rest of Ceph's ISO I can't help but see it as suspicious.

After this, Ceph proceeds to pocket Shirou with 207 and 223.

What context?

What makes this pocketing and not having a townread?

[Cephrir]

Ceph

?

[Cephrir]

Note how nowhere in there is a single actual refutation of my read, just consistently saying that I have no reason to come after him.

Your point was "Ceph has engaged in a townie behavior, but it's pinging me for gut reasons."

How could I possibly refute that?

[Cephrir]

You ran right over our reads list.

What, am I supposed to shut up while the big kids talk about things that matter? I'm gonna do my thing.

[Cephrir]

At a stage where people are starting to put out reads and leans, even tentative ones, here Ceph is giving a reason why he might not be able to. And then of course, he does not for the rest of his ISO. This is also +scum - he's been in several interactions and debates, but his only takeaway is that "everyone is scum"?

I did not literally mean that I think everyone is scum. I'm just feeling more paranoid today. I still have reads.

[Cephrir]

You ran right over our reads list.

now that i've arrived, it seems fine. i'd like to be higher but don't expect to be. i've been wondering why ydrasse is being showered in townreads, so it's nice that i'm at least not alone.

[Cephrir]

roughly translates to "swagger"

I do have a lot of swag, but I'm afraid I'm not Sigmund.

I know! Sigmund was a Pooky alt and you are not.

Also true. It's relatively easy to figure out who I am if you've played with me before.

Must we do this information asymmetry thing. I dislike it.

I mean everyone has access to the information that I'm not a Pooky alt since I played in a game with a Pooky alt. And Ceph, you personally know who I am.

I don't, actually!

[Cephrir]

It seems like nQ wagon might be a popular choice for today? We should still explore our options, though.

This post gives me awful gut vibes and feels like it's supposed to go in the Scum PT.

i don't think it was a slip, but i agree that it's a bad post.

[Cephrir]

You ran right over our reads list.

What, am I supposed to shut up while the big kids talk about things that matter? I'm gonna do my thing.

Not at all. I figured you'd have some thoughts about it, though.

(you'll notice that i was pages behind and responding as i went)

[Cephrir]

like also

"town parade on numberq"

no read on numberq given

do you think that town's all going to pile on numberq and be wrong then or is numberq scum who town's going to get right

if it's the first why haven't you said anything/tried to soothe things a bit and if it's the second do you think i feel a need to bus this early on

why even anticipate a pile-on at all

tbh though you probably should pile on me, I think I do my best work under pressure.

sounds good, your work could certainly stand to improve

VOTE: numberQ

[Cephrir]

i think this is a good plan but await a counterargument

[Cephrir]

wait that's not what the plan was

[Cephrir]

Actually why

not

just massclaim now? We don't even have to say what night they work on-- just our roles themselves. We instantly narrow down at least one scum in a group through that alone.

i think this isn't good

[Cephrir]

Why wouldn't someone just wait until Day 4 or 5 to claim when there's very little room or margin of error left?

well if they're claiming cop at that time, they can't claim to have investigated someone who died night 2

[Cephrir]

Have you never put your ducks in a row and singled out potential miselims to push as scum? By taking one of those away and putting that fat towncred on myself I remove some of their power and give town time to talk about the events preceding my alignment and role reveal.

What towncred are you getting though? That's my point.

well, there is the towncred they're getting from being obviously town on these last 2 pages, does that help

[Cephrir]

there's been a few instances of Cephrir commenting negatively on something without following through on it.

I'm sure this won't do anything for you, but for, this is normal behavior for me

[Cephrir]

I guess we are not giving numberQ the votes he asked for

VOTE: northsidegal

[Cephrir]

i would like to get content out of her before we go thinking about ending the day, at least

[Cephrir]

i would like to get content out of her before we go thinking about ending the day, at least

doesn't feel like we're ending today anytime soon though?

It's only been 48 hours.

i think i misread the tone of your post

[Cephrir]

morph/amazon are both underwhelming and could both be scum. come at me.

but i have a lot of fish to fry. maybe i should try harder to fry them since morph doesn't seem to be doing that for me.

[Cephrir]

town: shirou
town lean: fua, tejate
neutral: ydrasse, amazonian i GUESS but please do more
neutral but i look extra not impressed while talking about them: everyone else
scumlean: guiltylion, nsg

do better

[Cephrir]

actually let's bump fua up to that top tier i think they deserve that

[Cephrir]

morph/amazon are both underwhelming and could both be scum. come at me.

but i have a lot of fish to fry. maybe i should try harder to fry them since morph doesn't seem to be doing that for me.

To quote Cobra Kai, you're a towel.

Maybe you're a town towel, but I have an awful lot of memories of scum-you casting various aspersions on me/my hydrae over the years.

yet you also get leery if i townbin you! my recollection is that i usually townbin you (ffery) as scum. but it's not solely because suspecting you is a waste of time

i've given you time but it's been 30 pages and i'm still decidedly whelmed

[Cephrir]

my recollection is that i usually townbin you (ffery) as scum

but idk i could be wrong about this memories are hard.

[Cephrir]

honestly now that i think about it this is more or less what i'd expect from a morph/amazon scumteam. a cursory dance followed by townlocking each other for inscrutable or too easy reasons, and amazon not doing much to interact with the rest of the game because it's easy for them to look good interacting with morph.

so i reiterate, do better

[Cephrir]

maybe you'd have made more of a show of it? hm

[Cephrir]

yes good go retreat to your hydra lair to discuss how to handle an UPPITY cephrir

that's right the peasants are getting UPPITY

[Cephrir]

yes good go retreat to your hydra lair to discuss how to handle an UPPITY cephrir

that's right the peasants are getting UPPITY

If you expect instant replies from me today and probably this week, you are doomed to disappointment.

it was fun to pretend i had a leg up on you for once in my life ok

[Cephrir]

i don't suppose you have any interest in sharing the reasons for that with the class

[Cephrir]

I'd be annoyed but it's not like there's a shortage of viable scum candidates atm.

Ceph, where's your GL scumlean coming from?

i'm expecting town-GL to produce compelling analysis and be a town leader, and i haven't seen that so far

[Cephrir]

I don't think morph's 753 tracks with the meta read claim. If open games aren't either of your cups of tea, then idk how you're getting such a strong meta read in this open game as to put them in the "forever town" category. I play differently enough in the different queues (or at least I think I do) that I'd consider it difficult for someone to meta me THAT strongly across them.

idk though, feels like that thought is meshing with Ceph because of 766 and that gives me pause. Maybe I'm paranoid

i would advise you not to worry about unflipped associatives as a general rule. worry about agreeing with me if i flip scum later, but otherwise it's not worth the brain power

[Cephrir]

the nice thing about open games is you know exactly what level of jank you're walking into.

if i could be assured non-janky normals, i would play those.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Cephrir]

D3 pass:
morph the cat (Cabd & fferyllt): town read, but respecting their scum range. Happy to chat as they like.

do you think giving d3 passes is a particularly sensible thing for your slot to do? actually this basically applies to morph too; i should think if either of you had concerns about anyone, they should be voiced rather than tabled as there is an above average likelihood of you not being long for the game by name alone

[Cephrir]

you do call it a townread too i guess so i guess it's just a townread with reservations. i may just be prickly about the concept of passes.

[Cephrir]

I think we should just elim the scummiest player. Shrug emoji.

[Cephrir]

No need to apologize for any of that, I'm glad you're engaging in a healthier way.

^

[Cephrir]

Town: {fua, Shirou, Amazonian Legends, Tejate Raichu, Ydrasse}
Town Enough For Now: {Cephrir, implosion, morph}
Needs More Data: {NSG}
Would Lim: {numbersQ}
Would Lim With No Mercy: {redtea, imaginality}

does it bother you at all that this is also approximately what you'd get if you sorted the PL by charisma (tejate being the main exception)? This is something I've been thinking about a lot more lately.

[Cephrir]

I guess it's fine to look for the easy scum first. and i don't hate the argument against imaginality.

I have liked this stream of posts from GL, although it's not powerful enough for my concern level about him to vanish entirely... it sometimes treads into eyeglaze territory which fits sort of a, scum profile? that exists in my head

[Cephrir]

Town: {fua, Shirou, Amazonian Legends, Tejate Raichu, Ydrasse}
Town Enough For Now: {Cephrir, implosion, morph}
Needs More Data: {NSG}
Would Lim: {numbersQ}
Would Lim With No Mercy: {redtea, imaginality}

does it bother you at all that this is also approximately what you'd get if you sorted the PL by charisma (tejate being the main exception)? This is something I've been thinking about a lot more lately.

How would you have ranked charisma to alignment in your last large theme game?

You would think since that game was so easy that the scumteams would be full of low charisma players, but they actually weren't. It's a charismatic playerlist overall, but aside from WhemeStar and Reiuji I would say they're all around the middle of the road on a relative basis.

[Cephrir]

At this time, I would like to use my vote to pressure all three of the significant lurkers at once somehow.

VOTE: nsg

[Cephrir]

This purely reactive post makes me think you're caught up and perfectly happy with the game state / not doing anything.

[Cephrir]

Also like how do you propose anyone have a synchronous dialogue with you if you are infrequently here.

[Cephrir]

I'm just really offput by implosion for some reason. Can't quite put my finger on it.

Mutual, except I can~

This is a very strange post that sets off alarm bells for me. I can’t see a town motivation for making this.

I don't think it's strange at all? Are you sure you understood it?

[Cephrir]

Also like how do you propose anyone have a synchronous dialogue with you if you are infrequently here.

This week in particular being first week back at work is less representative of me. In general 6am to 12pm UTC is the best time for me to be having back and forths

okay but i'm american so that's the middle of the night lol

[Cephrir]

Feel free to explain it to me. I may well have misunderstood.

I believe he is saying that he is offput by morph and he can name the reason. Or maybe that he knows why morph is offput by him and it's because they're scum?

Oh, I bet you read this as talking about himself which actually is more directly supported by the text.

[Cephrir]

Instead of asking why he just says ‘I feel the same way’ which is just weird and an attempt to brush off suspicion through OMGUS and undermining Morph’s own statement, which I think is scummy.

Hero solve is Ceph/Implosion/Tejate. Clearly this is correct.

fair enough

[Cephrir]

although i guess i don't know why he'd be expected to ask why when the entire point of their post was to say they wouldn't be able to answer that question

[Cephrir]

What Tejate said. And Morph is a very dangerous scum player. They deserve more wariness that 990 seems to indicate you're affording them, and I believe they would agree with this.

[Cephrir]

What Tejate said. And Morph is a very dangerous scum player. They deserve more wariness that 990 seems to indicate you're affording them, and I believe they would agree with this.

I agree that half of Morph is a very dangerous scum player!

Pooky would agree with your statement fully though (Cabd pays him to big up my scum game).

What I've skimmed of your scum game instilled fear in me.

[Cephrir]

and your scumreads are doing those things??

[Cephrir]

I mean yes I don't deny being good either, I just think fua is giving you a pass for behavior that you exhibit in every game.

[Cephrir]

I dont like ur odds on that bet mate

[Cephrir]

I am indifferent about voting for redtea. I don't especially want to end the day yet.

[Cephrir]

nsg, imaginality, maybe implosion

[Cephrir]

yah but it'd have to be exactly those 2 fmpov and thats not terribly likely

im not cocky about it

[Cephrir]

I am indifferent about voting for redtea. I don't especially want to end the day yet.

I'm not sure GL was suggesting we end the day right this second.

GL, could you elaborate on what exactly you meant by wanting to vote redtea? I assumed you meant closer to the end of our timer, as opposed to starting a wagon right now?

I want to start a wagon right now, but I don't want the day to end. Why is everyone acting like voting somebody is now a signal that you're ready for the day to end? Did I miss a change in sitemeta or something?

When the game is in a weak state like this (multiple people not voting, no serious wagons) it makes it really easy for scum to blend in. They can just post words without having to do anything or commit to anything. I like it when wagons get up to E-3, E-2, E-1, even if I'm not ready for an actual hammer, even if the person being wagoned isn't my top choice. It means people who are on the wagon are more committed to who they're voting - and if they back off at that point, it often says a lot. It means people who

aren't

on the wagon are confronted with a question - will they ultimately support this wagon? Or are they going to speak up against it? Who do they think should be the center of attention instead? And it means the person

being

wagoned is now staring down a Very Real possibility that they might die today.

The current gamestate provokes none of these interesting questions and doesn't put any pressure on anybody to do anything or take any stances. It's easy to write your opinions about a post or an ISO. It's a lot harder to put your money where your mouth is. That's why wagons are good. They create stakes that demand real positions and real commitment.

okay

VOTE: redtea

[Cephrir]

also i resent ceph implying that everybody above me on that one list is more charismatic than me (except ydrasse), i have more charm than a bracelet

i said approximately!!

also hooray content

[Cephrir]

i think i'll have to let that percolate tomorrow rather than try to process it while playing ff14.

[Cephrir]

I'm here and happy to interact but you haven't really given me much to interact directly with :p

The point on 603 from Ydrasse is interesting and the meta-guiltylion thing is interesting. I'm not as sold on the first point.

I also think the AL/morph thing is maybe a little off - morph's stated strength in reading AL is drastically higher than the other way around and like, I imagine morph-scum with AL-town wouldn't really be able to get away with

not

making a statement like that, right? There was a lot of talk about specifically that pairing having high BoP to read quickly.

i see that this point was already made in a different way, but it surprises me that anyone could post right after nsg's posts without having anything to say about shirou. that was clearly the most interesting thing there, no? why is it not on the list of interesting things.

as for my own thoughts, i will start actually reading his posts for intention again as i have been treating him as essentially conftown. i wouldn't mind more words about reasons to suspect shirou other than the elevated paranoia from this revelation-of-sorts.

nsg is no longer a scumread for me and will likely move up the readlist if this sort of thing continues.

i mean you said that shirou being deepscum was your pet theory so it just seems strange that after saying "now we're talking" when i bring it up you don't have anything more to say about it

I don't really have a ton more to say. Specifically his play was reminding me kind of of another specific scumgame I'll go find, though I really don't know if there's any actual reason my brain was making the connection to it other than it being a scumgame where I felt like I had very good reasons to townread someone and I was wrong. This is also related to how I was saying I wanted to townread Shirou earlier but felt like I couldn't, because I feel like his play is similar to some scumgames that have snowed me before.

why did this theory need to be kept in your pocket?

[Cephrir]

also I dislike that redtea wagon. They're more likely than not town to me and even if you can't see their slot that way, they've barely been here. You're mostly voting them for inactivity and not having much content to go off rather than because they've been really "scummy". It feels like almost a RVS wagon...except on page 40-ish.

It's fine I guess if it's just a "oh let's do a random wagon out of some gut suspicious" (literally like a RVS?), but a lurky slot that is a consensus scum read for almost everyone? yeah, doesn't feel a lot like scum to me either even outside of their content itself.

i feel differently. my hope was simply to get redtea to do anything, and i find that this method usually works. unfortunately we have the opposite of a vote-happy playerlist, and the result of that is that we can't build a pressure wagon on anyone at all. i feel this is depriving us of a valuable tool. i would happily vote-hop anywhere in about half the playerlist just to see what happens, but we don't seem to have enough players willing to use this tool.

[Cephrir]

(i realize i haven't actually moved my vote that much either, and i don't feel like explaining why i don't think that's contradictory)

[Cephrir]

if redtea is scum I may have fucked up in #1109

but even if they are town I may be suspected over defending them for "no good reason"

however, I do still boldly claim:

it feels like a semi-RVS wagon out of apathy and those almost never flip scum. Neither does getting a wagon on them usually do much more than making people comfortable on sitting in that stagnating wagon.

The easiest course of action would have been trying to start a counter wagon because I sensed you guys would vote redtea before, but unhappily I'm not confident enough yet to push a counterwagon.

i didn't really care about 1109 but i didn't love this attempt to clean it up

[Cephrir]

Tej seems fun and shouldn't be limmed today for that reason alone

this statement seems like, wildly out of tune with the rest of your play

[Cephrir]

(i realize i haven't actually moved my vote that much either, and i don't feel like explaining why i don't think that's contradictory)

what? you've made 7 votes.

oh. huh.

[Cephrir]

k

VOTE: imaginality

[Cephrir]

why did you break the combo

[Cephrir]

2/10 reaction did not enjoy

[Cephrir]

Two things: first, I'd like to do this exercise once again since it seems like imaginality is going to be a very popular wagon. Let's make the assumption that right now, 2 non-voters vote for imaginality right now (which would be hammer) and he flips Doctor. Do you glean anything from this information? And what do you gain information wise if he flips mafia?

Also, is it necessary to really claim your night in this setup? I don't feel like it helps us very much at all.

idk

i didnt expect this wagon to start looking like it could go to elim, but i have no issue if it does

i'll analyze the flip after i get it. i don't like to waste my time doing so beforehand

[Cephrir]

it is difficult to calm my kneejerk reaction of townreading to shirou's self-conscious posts.

[Cephrir]

I guess it's fine to look for the easy scum first. and i don't hate the argument against imaginality.

I have liked this stream of posts from GL, although it's not powerful enough for my concern level about him to vanish entirely... it sometimes treads into eyeglaze territory which fits sort of a, scum profile? that exists in my head

Can you talk more about that scum profile. What did you think about his push to get a redtea wagon started?

There was a theme game run by piegirl (i think) in which i (chandra nalaar) rolled ascetic tracker. there were two players in this game who tended to write a lot of words, but those words left me kind of cold and blah. that is, they had a lot of content but for whatever reason there wasn't a lot of life behind the posts for me / they were boring. i proceeded to get tracker guilties on both of them. since then i have viewed "lots of words that don't make me feel anything" with suspicion. i don't think it's a perfect match for GL this game at all, and even that string of posts i liked a bit as stated here, but something that came to mind.

i am mildly surprised to see him being so seemingly carefree but not super concerned or anything. i suppose i would be interested in why he chose redtea specifically.

[Cephrir]

Ffery just gave away the farm.

It's about her attitude at potentially being dead weight.

why did she do this? it seems out of character.

[Cephrir]

may i inquire about your motivation for rereading and/or what prompted it?

[Cephrir]

i probably haven't gotten to be above suspicion in any game since!

[Cephrir]

ok thx

[Cephrir]

ok thx

Do you still have concerns about morph and if so is it still underwhelming?

yeah they still havent impressed me

i asked this question because i was wondering if they were trying to generate content survivalistically in response to reads on them falling

[Cephrir]

im not trying to be a jerk just probing to determine the validity of my thoughts

[Cephrir]

i genuinely dont understand why youre so upset about this

[Cephrir]

like you didn't want me to do things out loud because you KNOW that when I take a can-opener to my skull and put my thoughts about the game out there, players' reads of me get better.

of course i want you to do that, i want to read you better

i dont think i would do something like this intentionally anyway

[Cephrir]

i found your answer satisfying enough and wouldnt have mentioned it again if i wasnt asked about it

[Cephrir]

i got an answer and didn't have a problem with it so i wasn't really concerned anymore

[Cephrir]

I'm curious why you assumed the notes were handwritten?

i didn't mean that bit literally; was just calling back to when titus did this as it's where my head went.

[Cephrir]

I'm curious why you assumed the notes were handwritten?

i didn't mean that bit literally; was just calling back to when titus did this as it's where my head went.

It seemed to be an aspect of scumreading Tejate? Or suspecting him at least.

yeah, the handwrittenness isn't really that relevant to the view of it as potentially a tell.

[Cephrir]

Though granted, putting imaginality at E-1 was probably a bit hasty, one of a few things I regret doing last night. Don't play mafia when your brain is melting, kids.

[Cephrir]

I know it's annoying when you're expecting someone to town read you easily and work together, and they're sitting over there squinty eyed

me, living this every game

[Cephrir]

VOTE: redtea

'Kay.

Morph I think you need to just be ok with me taking my sweet time on you. Ffery alone I've occasionally gotten there by the end of day 1 but even then I often dont. It's an important read for me to get right and I don't intend to rush. Sideline sniping is not unusual behavior from me.

[Cephrir]

I mean I often think I should be townread but it never happens, and I cannot back that up; I'd love to be worthy of working with you sometime but I know that that's not what I get to do and my analytical abilities arent really up to snuff anyway.

I guess I'm just bitching about never getting to be in the cool kids club while also being unwilling to do the work required.

[Cephrir]

I suppose it's happened. Usually I feel like everyone insists on holding me at arm's length. Perhaps I'mjust not meeting some standard of townies but boy is that bar high.j

[Cephrir]

I'm not much of a mobile typist huh.

[Cephrir]

Apologies, I'm trying to ATE less.

[Cephrir]

Also Ceph, why are you sheeping Morph like that when you don't town read them?

I'm just pretty indifferent between those two votes right now, although your posts are making me think I'm being too hasty.

[Cephrir]

I do feel like giving morph the opportunity to have the vote they want could help me just BOP them instead of arriving at a read. :p

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:

I'll take this more seriously and return when I actually have time to think.

[Cephrir]

I meant those toooo

Later. I am pretty busy the next few days; evidently I cannot do anything g without upsetting someone which kinda suggests to me that this is important.

[Cephrir]

I just want to point, Ceph, that this was me saying I wanted your thoughts about our reads list.

In reply to your post I made that explicit. :/

After our discussion last night about your feeling shut out in a lot of games, running into this convo in my reread hit me right in the face. Maybe sometimes your expectation of being shut out is self-fulfilling.

Yes, you framed it as though I had done something wrong when I didnt even know you had posted a read list yet. This felt confusing and hostile to me. This post is also strangely hostile.

[Cephrir]

what is "this"? The redtea/imaginality wagons?

Yes and my vote specifically.

[Cephrir]

I'll do an updated read list next time I have more brain cells than "posting from a Subway."

Re: how I expected you to interact: in a word, more. It felt too easy.

[Cephrir]

I have many morph queries to answer, I know, I will answer them.

To answer out of order this page: hypoclaiming doesn't work because town players don't flip with their night, just as "cop" or "doctor". I was willing to vote GL partially because I felt like he's the type of player for whom coordinated pressure might help sort, along with him being null (this is e.g. why I didn't list nsg because I didn't think coordinated pressure on her would be as useful).

I havent really thought about whether this would be worth it, but you could hypoclaim a night and then give your hypo result on the day after. Or you could hypoclaim every day from 2 on (if I'm a cop I wasnt a night 1 cop, etc)

[Cephrir]

Partially this is fair criticism and I'd chalk it down to me just playing this game in a way that isn't particularly focused, in general.

But also partially... this is incredibly uncharitable.

???????
I dont know that I liked any of this post.

[Cephrir]

. I do see numbers point about how he didn't refute the read but just pointed out that the reasons weren't there or weren't very good.

I still don't think I understand how these things are different. It probably isnt very important.

[Cephrir]

Yeah no still dont have the brain cells to actually comprehend the post density right now. Ttyl.

[Cephrir]

can i just decide to ignore the entire problem and vote nsg

later

[Cephrir]

is that pushing a narrative or is it just reality

[Cephrir]

nsg

but im essentially 10 pages behind

[Cephrir]

ok let's try this again!

i'm coming into this feeling like voting imaginality after some distance from the thread. my memory is full of holes but when i think about reasons to vote for imaginality im like "the scummy stuff he posted" and when i think about reasons to vote for redtea i'm like,,,, morph said so???? maybe i need to reread their posts on the subject or the pages i'm rereading will move me but i don't really get it at the moment.

You're trying to seem like you're "reconsidering" your read on me but all your points to me just sound like nitpick.

"He used the pronoun we". Like, if you've a problem with that you would have a problem with most of my posts because I always write that way regardless of alignment to avoid people going "oh it's a perspective slip!" or something dumb like that. There's multiple posts of mine that I do talk as if I'm part of the collective town or so.

and after all that rereading, research and all...you vote redtea. The consensus lurky scum read.

Let me ask you, did you skim the game Ydrasse's linked? You've now mentioned rereading "dedede" and other games for Ceph/Implosion dozens of times by now, but doesn't feel like you're trying to sort your top suspect as much?

Also Tejate you're gaining scum points for your last posts trying to reconsider Imaginality just because...I'm not even sure why. Because Amazon told you that saying "you're funny so I don't want to elim you" is a joke? Wasn't that kinda clear? I don't buy you reconsidering because of that, I feel you're reconsidering simply because the momentum for Imaginality seems to be diminishing, so you're either looking for an out to vote someone other than your potential buddy, or you're simply trying to follow consensus again. It's scummy either way to me.

i know there was a Great Warning about shirou but it's so hard not to want to follow good posts. this is mostly a note to myself to actually care about the response to this.

Also Ceph, why are you sheeping Morph like that when you don't town read them?

Do you really think Imaginality accepting all the votes on him and being like "my elimination is okay as long as we get the most information out of it" is less scummy than...redtea's ISO lacking much content?

Let me ask you

How many times have you seen a lurky slot that doesn't have much content in their ISO being just limbait and flipping town?

sometimes. i have bought into the school of thought that lurkers with meh content are actually just scum a shocking percentage of the time in the current meta. it's disappointing, but true. naturally, it's not going to happen every time.

VS

How many times have you seen a townie instantly go into defeatist mode and say stuff like "My miselimination is okay as long as we can get the most info out of it?".

yeah... rarely.

I do not understand your switch there at all. It feels like you're just trying to play around Morph rather than actually critically thinking who has the highest chances of flipping scum. You're back to null and maybe in fact even null scum depending on how you reply the above.

i am having a struggle between my belief in their scumhunting abilities and listening to myself. i sometimes like to look to others because i've observed that i'm not particularly good at finding scum. and also, i would feel bad about miseliming morph... i don't know what catching them would even look like... maybe it looks like this and they're playing my own emotion-laden game against me? but i'm weak >:

[Cephrir]

i might owe myself a little generosity & need to get over the idea that a loss is worse if it was ~my fault~

[Cephrir]

if an LSG player was thinking these thoughts at me, i would tell them to get out there, make mistakes and get messy because that's how learning happens.

[Cephrir]

Red tea - this one is an absolute toss up. I don’t have a town read here, but neither do I have a scum read. I might have some thoughts about guilty lions push here when I get back from the rink and reread a few things, but I would not be surprised if redtea flipped town or scum. Penguin has reasons to scum read them, and I’m not opposed. Though I did not like the spoilered portion of the “wall”.

I guess this is just a you read? Otherwise why is your vote here.

[Cephrir]

Partially this is fair criticism and I'd chalk it down to me just playing this game in a way that isn't particularly focused, in general.

But also partially... this is incredibly uncharitable.

???????
I dont know that I liked any of this post.

with fresher eyes, i no longer agree with my own post on this subject. i just think this phrasing is goofy and that's not scummy.

[Cephrir]

But also partially... this is incredibly uncharitable. My empty vote on you was the start of an attempt to sort. 462 is to sort you. 520 is to try to get a baseline of how to think about your play. 530 is trying to interact with you and you (temporarily) refusing. 632 is me floating something of yours I thought was scummy to see what others think. This is all literally in the first 1/3 of those 54 mentions.

"Not one of them is geared toward sorting you" is, tbh, insulting in its hyperbolicity.

I don't see anything where I feel like you've tried to figure out my mindset or ask me ~questions~ about my stances. Maybe we go about sorting so differently?

my perception is that you're scumreading or at least heavily distrusting implosion; not that one can't olive branch a scumread, but surprised by the conciliation.

[Cephrir]

The perspective slip thing doesn't really jive to me (I don't see why redtea-scum would lie about having read less of the thread than they have, that doesn't exactly make them look good).

I don't think I said redtea was lying about how much they've read of the thread? The point was more I don't understand how they could genuinely engage with things in the way that they did, if they hadn't read the thread.

i struggle to see the distinction

My opinion on redtea right now is annoyingly similar to Shirou's: they have the aesthetics in my mind of a slot that could easily be either alignment but is prone to being misread as scum if town. I feel like imaginality is a better shot for actual scum - to compare the two, they both have been on the sidelines of the day, but whenever imaginality comes into the thread it feels to me like he's coming in for the sake of giving stances or looking like he has them, and not figuring out stances. Whereas from redtea I don't even get the vibe that they care about appearing to have stances. Basically I don't get the vibe of caring about appearances from redtea. To be fair if they are scum this is probably the point of why they've been playing this way. I think it's the way imaginality's wallish posts have worked that gives me this impression, whereas yeah you point out redtea's wallreadpost is sort of all over the place/weird and it's like, idk, I feel like they'd want to flesh it out a bit more as scum. Kind of like what Shirou was saying of people maybe underestimating redtea's scumgame, I feel like redtea's game as scum here would have to be essentially very lazy/sloppy because of the pressure they've been under whereas as town I think it's easier to see their posting as like, someone just not all that invested/engaged in the game yet.

Okay maybe I actually do townlean them now that I write this out.

i am glad i sucked it up and read a paragraph this large. i agree.

I still have reservations on morph and I'm still sorry that I do. I'm not panicking and saying hang the blessed feline or anything. It's not even a scum read, it's just I still don't feel confident in the read as I would like. I do like a lot of what ffery has posted. She's shown some fire and punch when it seems like she would and I want so very much for this to be a town read that I feel super confident on. The pushback on cephrir yesterday when she posited that he was casting asparagus because when she starts posting her thoughts people start feeling better about her still sits wrong. But it could very well be a bit of annoyance that people who should be reading her better are hesitating. I know how annoying that is. I haven't had a problem with their reads or posting save what I mentioned last night with regards to me. Penguin has them at an actual town read and hasn't felt concerned by anything that cabd has posted. This doesn't mean that I don't want to interact or work with morph on reads when I'm very well aware that this is likely a me problem.

thank goodness for this. i guess i hydra gives you permission to post something like this and never act on it, but nonetheless. also, please don't be sorry for having reads, i say hypocritically

fua, why morph town? i was just thinking it's a little alarming i don't have any reason to townread them yet

Why did you think it was alarming at this point when you have a harder time getting a townread on ffery this early anyway?

having to worry about their alignment is always alarming

Don't yell at me though!

never. this just gives me permission to have analogous concerns myself.

[Cephrir]

trying to figure out something out of all that that I don't feel awkward putting out there

posting shouldn't make town players feel awkward?

also, holistically re: this post - why won't you generate this many words about something other than defending yourself?

[Cephrir]

watch out GL i'm isoing you if that isn't clear

this went nowhere, i guess?

[Cephrir]

Also, Shirou's argument that Tejate is trying to divert from me falls apart when I flip town. So to my mind there are three possibilities here about why Shirou is pushing this point:

1. Shirou is town and believes he's making a good point against Tejate.
2. Shirou is scum and thinks making it look like Tejate is a plausible buddy for me will help get my mislim over the line
3. Shirou is scumbuddies with Tejate and knows this attack on Tejate will be invalidated once I flip, making Tejate look better than if Shirou hadn't called him scummy over this, while helping them with distancing

(2 and 3 could both be true.)

what uninteresting analysis this is, and to make it worse you didn't even offer an opinion about which of these scenarios is happening or why.

[Cephrir]

That was why I was trying to figure out how much I should be concerned about Ydrasse's claim.

Where were you concerned with Ydrasse's claim? I see where you were suspecting her and where you were concerned about fua's claim, but I don't see where you were specifically concerned with Ydrasse's claim.

I deliberately stayed vague about the reason in my post #713 ("I'm also suspicious of Ydrasse. Need to go back and get the quotes but I remember being pinged at least a couple of times.") because I didn't want to out myself as N2 doc at that point. In the background I was trying to figure out how much her claim should make me wary of her hence the probability discussion.

This is the best post in your ISO. Your claim considering this is kinda more believable except...

Ydrasse's claim came right after I suggested perhaps we should massclaim except we could

lie

about it.

Why do you seem so confident that Ydrasse is telling the truth there?

In fact, even if I hadn't said anything about lie being permissible, why would you assume someone would necessarily be telling the truth when claiming out of the blue like that? It's definitely possible to be a townie doing WIFOM even if I hadn't said that we could lie about it, but it's

especially

likely and possible that it's WIFOM even if she's town due to the fact I said lying to confuse scum was okay.

At the same time this makes your claim a bit more believable, it also kinda reeks of TMI by how much you trust that Ydrasse was telling the truth there, which may be a sign you knew she was town, because as scum it's easier to believe what comes from townies is just the truth.

(I know you're considering "she may be lying and is scum", but the scenario I'm talking about is one where she's lying, except she's town doing it for WIFOM when some posts before she claimed it, I had suggested the idea. It doesn't feel you gave much consideration/thought to the possibilities here. )

i don't care for it at all. i suppose imaginality's previous math post being wrong does match up with also not understanding probability, i guess

idk imag comes off as a cerebral type so it's harder for me to believe he was like "ah yes, ydrasse here is claiming for no reason because she is irrational"

[Cephrir]

Ceph has not been pinging my radar nearly as much, in either direction. His posting feels less directed than it did back when I was pressing him. I have very few notes about him up to page 42, except for his post 897 where he is very waffley on GL. And he says GL's page 35/36 posting "treads into eyeglaze territory" and somehow that's a scumtell?

i see you postulating scumteams that don't include me and i'm not sure how a few pages of not pinging you has overcome what was a singular focus before.

I have very few notes about him

literally the exact line in my notes

TODO to ISO him as well. I also noted down

COOL NOTES BRO

He can prove himself town by voting implosion with me though - how about it, numberQ?

i threw up in my mouth a little reading this

[Cephrir]

is scum this blatantly superficial?

sure

[Cephrir]

whenever imaginality was casing implosion he sounded a lot more doubtful/uncertain than he is acting now

hmm

can i just decide to ignore the entire problem and vote nsg

later

Not gonna lie this thought crossed my mind as well.

This weekend got away from me and I’m headed to bed soon, so I won’t be doing much tonight.

I don’t particularly like the way that imaginality is bargaining with nq. I don’t mind that he’s bargaining, but the way he’s bargaining with nq about the towncred he’ll get if he votes implosion over him feels wrong in its presentation. I read backwards so at first I thought he was talking to an no that he was town reading with the promise of towncred which felt wrong but then it made a little more sense to see him scumreading nq as well, but the focus still feels weird. Eh I just reread 1561 and he is somewhat doing what I was going to say I thought he should be doing, so I don’t know, I’ll come back to this tomorrow.

the only counterpoint i could offer to this is that most scum would have realized that "bargain" was a spectacularly bad move and not doubled down on it.

[Cephrir]

In terms of explicitly pushing redtea v me, here are the posts I found

ah, so you had fuck all and had to go back and impute. thanks for letting us know!

[Cephrir]

I postulated a single time, and it was specifically about an association between redtea and imag. Wasn't meant to be a full team solve.

more to the point, then - what is your read on me?

[Cephrir]

But seriously is there something wrong with having notes? idk what you're even trying to say with this

don't worry about it i'm just being a curmudgeon

[Cephrir]

at the moment, i have too many theories to count. i think redtea and imaginality are both posting like scum here, but i'm also like moderately worried about morph, ydrasse, and nsg. and i notice that of those 5 scumreads only 1 is actually posting lots (which may be an indication that i'm completely off).

but right now my leading theory is that these players are both scum, and i think it's smarter and healthier to test the "maybe this game is just easy" theory before i go off and wrap myself in knots

VOTE: imaginality

[Cephrir]

I was exaggerating yes I felt like the non serious tone was apparent but maybe not

[Cephrir]

*actively cheerleads the day ending*

[Cephrir]

I'm less bored now. Let's try this. Next post, folks, give us your GTH (gun-to-head) fua reads.

--PA

town

[Cephrir]

Okay so penguin got enough people to answer her question.

We healed fua last night.

heh, i thought so.

[Cephrir]

Yeah no kills exist but I’d be surprised plus Fua’s reaction to penguins question reads like

she

they thought that was a cop clear. Can be faked to as well but I don’t think so.

yeah if there's no cc and they're that smart i'll happily lose this one tbh

[Cephrir]

im not used to hunting from wagns especially town wagons but that does seem for some reason like a useful avenue this game

[Cephrir]

im not used to hunting from wagns especially town wagons but that does seem for some reason like a useful avenue this game

so you agree with Tejate's vision that there's likely scum (and perhaps multiple scum) in the Imaginality wagon?

Or do you perhaps agree with mine that it's likely there's at least one scum out of Imaginality's wagon?

i don't like to think in terms of "there's scum in this wagon," i think that alone is too specific, however i want to analyze the flow of votes in general and see if anyone stands out.

[Cephrir]

but i'm not going to do it right now because i am ~not sober~

[Cephrir]

Top of my head not super interested in a tecate wagon but I should probably like try

[Cephrir]

oh dang now i *really* have to try.

i am not used to being in this position!

[Cephrir]

yeah maybe i should just iso some players of interest. or something.

[Cephrir]

i have to admit to finding this somewhat compelling at the moment. but i don't want to be complacent and watch all the work get done for me. even though i'm only not working on this at this very moment on account of not really feeling like it.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: implosion

if I die today cop/flip this next

case on me is full of disingenuous shit

Tejate/implosion/redtea probably

I TR everyone else except numbersQ but I'm willing to buy his claim

i don't like this reaction very much

[Cephrir]

oh i guess he keeps going that's good

[Cephrir]

what do you think about hall the actual arguments I'm making

this is something i need to sit down with.

why does this game insist on being unplayable on the fly.

[Cephrir]

regardless of GL alignment though

I still think there's scum in Tejate/Meg *especially* with those recent claims now (if we're to believe them and for now I'm gonna believe on them, I like numberQ recent posts. They feel like he's really engaged in solving the game).


GL may or not be scum in my pov but there's almost always a guaranteed scum in Tejate/Meg for me. If both Tejate/Meg are town, I think it would be a bizarre world and we should name this game "NK15's Bizarre Adventures", but if that ever happened at all of both being town, I think there would be guaranteed scum in GL/Morph then, if not both?

What is it about these slots that make you think theres one as opposed to suspecting both of them in general?

[Cephrir]

brain says shitou then but gut says shirou scum
VOTE: Shirou

Feels agenda-y and less interested in actually solving

What's agenday about that string of posts?

[Cephrir]

Among that whole series of wallposts implo did, much of which I didn't like at all, this sticks out as something I really really do not like. This just doesn't make sense to me within the context of the situation at all.

Can you explain this

I liked the point but did not examine the context

[Cephrir]

i feel like i should do stuff but the post density makes it difficult to want to

what if we just go for the easy one first

VOTE: megazumarill

[Cephrir]

Agh but that's not going to reduce the post density at all

[Cephrir]

i dont want to discourage anyone from DOing Stuff but it's interesting to observe who responds to this seemingly town-loaded gamestate by springing into action and who is chilling

[Cephrir]

Alright, I'm back. Are the two hydrae still online by any chance?

Amazonian Legends, in my opinion, has given me more townpings than not so far. In the read format list I had earlier, they'd be neutral town-lean. They spent the early game mostly asking questions rather than jumping in headfirst, and their questions seem fairly relevant to looking at people's mindsets. While they don't have as much content as others here, I'd say what they have posted is fairly content dense, if perhaps a bit laser focused a lot of the time. The focus on reacting to single players or statements at any given time does give me a bit of pause, but it's not enough to make me not want to give them a day 1 pass.

morph, on the other hand, I'm not so sure on. I'm leaning slightly towards null scum, though closer to null than scum. I see most of the reads on morph are meta so far so I can't read into that too much, but as for this thread I am not particularly impressed with what they have posted. This is probably the single most town thing they have posted in a while from my perspective. A lot of their recent discussion seemed to be on meta reads, with little on current content although I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wait for catchup.

Sorry if I kept either of you waiting., ended up being a little distracted mid-post.

Well, since I have engaged little with either of you (AL/morph) I would like to start discussion with my reads on you. I think I know where to categorize you two now, give me a minute to write down a proper post.

Minutes more like eons.

I wanna engage before crash but you're not back so :~/

Pedit wow timing

Damn your favorite post was spay not me.


Rude.

Hey, I'm sure there's plenty of posts you can make that I'll like. Hang in there.

a day 1 pass.

The morphisms. They go on and on and on.

Regardless of whether you are town or scum, I will concede that I like your terminology.

Day X pass is pretty good.

Regardless of whether you are town or scum, I will concede that I like your terminology.

Day X pass is pretty good.

We ought to make a list. There's a ton of little things we have introduced into the cultural dictionary here that we are proud of.


My recent favorite is polonium tea.

Okay I swear, last off topic post for now. You get your own wiki page, right? You could use that.

i went to a random page to start thinking about how the imaginality votes happened and found this instead. this is such a wet noodle of an interaction.

"hey hydras, i want to dance"
"okay"
>tejate posts reads talking around the hydras rather than to them
morph doesn't even comment on how lame this Promised Post That Kept You Waiting is and they talk about nothing at all as though that was the expected outcome?

what is this trash??

[Cephrir]

does either of them comment later on how fucking lame this was???? they should both suspect each other after this imo

[Cephrir]

Well, not necessarily I guess, asynchronous dialogue is possible but I get more from back and forth when I'm online at the same time as the other player(s), especially in fastpaced games.

We were online at the same time a little bit ago, and you're unsure of us, why no back and forth?

tejate completely ignored this post?

[Cephrir]

oh nvm i read what i wanted to read on that one

[Cephrir]

there are so many offtopic or playing other games instead of this one morph posts.

is it perhaps pulling teeth for you to play this game since ffery is driving.

[Cephrir]

god i just spotted that "ffery gave away the farm" post again and... idk you're so weird this game is a spade just a spade.