In post 1565, fireisredsir wrote: In post 1555, Meuh wrote:TLDR: I wasn’t in a particularly good mood and your vote felt like something that piled onto a general pushback against me so I didn’t really see a reason to individually address it.
If you wanna discuss it now, I’m down
ok
1) i don't think it's very reasonable to say that you're an easy read. i read through your flash games scumgame and you started off pretty strong and imo only really fell off near the end, but expressed a desire post-game to put in more effort next time and keep improving. i don't think you've really been around long enough to be declared as a polarized player. also, std just said this almost exactly to me in a game where people said he was out of his scumrange, and i ended up believing it, and he was scum, and i lost in elo by not voting him. so im not feeling super inclined to follow arguments along those lines rn
2) my reaction to seeing the lavar flip was that i may be seeing the game from the wrong angle and that if i was on the wrong page, then the people who i felt like i was on the same page with... may not have good intentions. did you feel that way at all, prior to my pushing back in your gorilla case?
3) walk me through your progression on lavar. when i reread i found it hard to believe as genuine, and felt like i may have had it backwards on who was scum in the interaction between you two. what did you see prior to
296 that you felt were good vibes, enough for you to sheep a prior scumread? what made you decide to vote him in
822? i thought that you adding on the reasoning in
833 after the vote was kinda sketchy, although I agreed with it at the time
4) i know you've explained your thought process here a bit but i still feel like i need more. i just cannot understand how you were townbinning gorilla, even at the start of d2, then only really started considering him as a partner to marci, but still focused your push primarily on him, and now still seem to be scumreading him. can you summarize your reasons for scumreading gorilla, and what changed your read, independent of marci?
1295 just seems really counter to everything you've said about the slot previously.
1300 is also very odd considering you were one of the people declaring him town early
5) i still don't really buy your reasoning for scum being on the dwlee wagon. do you stand by that?
1) I'd argue with you about my play in Flash Games but that doesn't seem productive. I did say I want to improve, bc I think I've been playing poorly as either alignment as of late. I've been frustrated with this game for a bit but that's in large part frustration with myself. I don't think this means much to argue though so whatever, and your weariness because of std is fine.
2) Honestly? Not really. Though I'm not sure what you mean with "prior to my pushback". My reaction to the Lavar flip was kinda weird. I liked the voting bloc we had formed. So when Lavar flipped town, it was less "oh, my perspective on the game was wrong and I should reconsider" and more "oh, the bloc chose the wrong person" if that makes any sense? That's part of the reason why I got focused on the Lavar
wagon
more than Lavar themselves near the end of the day. The people, the timing, the unity, it felt right. That's why I wanted it to go through. and Lavar flipping town, while disappointing and not what I was expecting, didn't really shake that. I started questioning that a bit more though, as it got brought up and I came to make my own little readslist in
1233 and came to scrutinize what I was thinking a bit more.
3) Okay, so that moment.
292 made me laugh a bit and felt good. Like it just radiated good energy. His reasoning for his vote on Tako also overlapped with my reasoning on Tako earlier, and my vote on Enchant at that point.
294 also seemed natural and I liked it, though that may just be ego. The overlap in purpose between Lavar and I's votes also motivated my vote on Tako. I like joining votes other people place more than place standalone votes and I was interested in giving more merit to his ideas, both from the good recent vibes and to help sort him.
I didn't like the Marci wagon. I don't like sorting her day 1, the arguments against her didn't particularly hook me (I honestly barely remember them) and iirc the people pushing for her weren't the people I was most trusting of at the time.
Do keep in mind that the post Lavar made that I hated happened after my vote.
833 I spotted something I did in the game just before this one as scum in a similar scenario. To me, this made Lavar very likely scum. In Flash Games, MathBlade came in to crush my dreams. I then threw out a tinfoil "jk... unless?" as a reaction as some sort of way to try to salvage the gamestate, as poor as that attempt was. Here, the flashwagon came to crush Lavar's dreams, and he had the same reaction of throwing out a tinfoil. That immediately felt terrible to me.
4) It's kind of a situation of a few factors coming together at the right time that made me turn around on Gorilla.
1. So I had made my readslist not long ago which was not only helpful to others but for me, to more fully anchor myself somewhere. I lose track of my own thought processes when there's 16 people to read.
2. After making that readslist, I realized there were too many people I thought were town who voted Dwlee for me to be scumhunting almost exclusively there. It didn't compile. So I was a bit more skeptical of people outside of that group.
3. I was more suspicious of Marci and saw associatives there (though you said independently of Marci, oops)
4. There was a vote on Gorilla, I like voting where there's votes.
5. I wanted to see where the wagon went to assess Enchant better, like I did with Lavar on day 1.
6. While making my readslist, I realized how unsubstantial my read on Gorilla was at that point. Questioning myself on it, it felt like an odd read to let exist in spite of this.
7. I looked at Gorilla's ISO because of Enchant's vote, and didn't like it. I spent a whole lot of words talking about associatives between Gorilla and Marci, but that wasn't the only thing that stuck to me there. It was just something I was interested in delving deeper into, and it was easier to express. It's hard to really show something like "Gorilla's content lacks much actual scumhunting". Like am I just supposed to quote some posts I think are a part of this? None of them on their own would adequately prove my point, because it's a wider pattern in his gameplay. Kind of like how several people (including myself) have complained about Dunn being less substantial later on in day 1. I don't recall anyone actually pulling out quotes from it, it's just broader issue with the way Dunn's played that can be seen by looking over a good deal of posts. I recommend anyone to ISO Gorilla and see if they get any similar impressions from his day 1.
5) Kind of. I think the assumption I was making was still very much stuck in my mentality that wasn't questioning the bloc we had formed on day 1. I still do think it's fairly likely for scum to want to jump on Dwlee near EOD to get more towncred. Plus I think scum like spreading their votes around, so I'm under the impression there's at least 1 scum who was voting Dwlee. I was probably overestimating this, though.
Like the Dwlee wagon is this: Kovu, Fey, Lady Lambdadelta, Gammagooey, SirCakez.
Kovu I think is town, Fey's been looking town to me as of late tbh, LLD is town, Gamma I'm meh on and same for Cakez. Not really insane scum potential in this pool imo. Also I could've sworn RR voted for Dwlee? But I guess not. I townread them anyways so it wouldn't change much.
