Normal 2302: Magical Girls | GAME OVER

[curiouskarmadog]

weeeee......and we are doing stuff.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball..for old time sake.

[curiouskarmadog]

weeeee......and we are doing stuff.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball..for old time sake.

You can be town for now

VOTE: Elements

what about now?

[curiouskarmadog]

Mental note, don’t attempt humour.

curious why?

[curiouskarmadog]

also why are we talking about another game?

[curiouskarmadog]

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

Knee jerk reflex vote.

math checks out.

[curiouskarmadog]

Mental note, don’t attempt humour.

curious why?

Because my rvs with a little joke attached is the one that got the piley-on despite there being a few others to start the game off.

ah..

so if you had to guess of the "piley-on", what are there motivations?

[curiouskarmadog]

weeeee......and we are doing stuff.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball..for old time sake.

You can be town for now

VOTE: Elements

what about now?

As I'm sure you can see from my readlist, you are in the scum zone

when did that change and why?

[curiouskarmadog]

Interesting thank u

I think ur town

Tbh

I find the assertiveness of ur reads kinda overblown, like “towny enough for day 1” for example doesn’t feel appropriate

at this stage
and generally I think that’s actually slightly more likely wolf

but the more I think about it, I think in context of the slowness of this game, the level of reads you’ve been doing is very town-beneficial -> town

noting this post. I also find it...interesting.

to sum up, you think her claiming someone town this early is scummy, but given the slowness its town.

I agree (mostly) with the bolded, though some people process/categories information differently, so it remains to be seen the motivations.

why do you think this game is going slow?

[curiouskarmadog]

no one asked me, but I am inserting myself into this conversation.

How highly do you value meta Daisy?

Also right back at you, how highly do you value meta? I know you've used my meta for and against me a lot but you've also got a lot more forum experience so I'm interested to hear what you think.

I like to use meta, but I think differently from you. How a person plays as X can be subjective. I look more toward reasoning. Like if person X says that Bob is scummy because of Y, I want to know if they have seen Y as scummy before. OOORRR, more recently if they have seen someone do Y and they were indeed town. I catch scum by understanding motivations. Either way, a meta is mostly useless at this point....later in the day, not as much.

[curiouskarmadog]

How highly do you value meta Daisy?

Also right back at you, how highly do you value meta? I know you've used my meta for and against me a lot but you've also got a lot more forum experience so I'm interested to hear what you think.

I'm not a fan of meta
Partly because most of the time I get bored reading other people's past games
Partly because it's easy to manipulate
Partly because I'm not very good at recognising it

so it is a you problem right?

what are your thoughts on SOMEONE else using meta?

[curiouskarmadog]

72 and 73

so that I understand, your opinion of me changed in 72 and 73?

[curiouskarmadog]

does that make sense?

sure and noted, ill put a pin in this for now as I think "metas" are pointless at this point (which is another reason I dont understand why we are talking about other games right now)

[curiouskarmadog]

Seems early to catch someone in a lie, but here we are. work me through this timeline.

Post 38-I am town

weeeee......and we are doing stuff.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball..for old time sake.

You can be town for now

.
.
.
--I literally post nothing---
.
.
.
Post 56--I am at the top of her scum chart.

Town

Emperor flippyNips
Towwl
Morning Tweet
OopsieDaisy
Hu Tao
DrippingGoofball
sheepsaysmeep
Save The Dragons
Merlyn
geraintm
curiouskarmadog
bristep123

Scum

post 71---I vote her for a reaction check.

weeeee......and we are doing stuff.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball..for old time sake.

You can be town for now

VOTE: Elements

what about now?

post 88---you tell me I am at the top of your scum list

weeeee......and we are doing stuff.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball..for old time sake.

You can be town for now

VOTE: Elements

what about now?

As I'm sure you can see from my readlist, you are in the scum zone

.
.
.

when I ask why, you said it was because of post 72 and 73...which OCCUR AFTER YOU PUT ME ON YOUR SCUM LIST. So 72 and 73 IS NOT the reason I was on your scum list. Why lie?

first time I voted you was a reaction check, voting you again as this is my first real vote.

VOTE: Elements

[curiouskarmadog]

posting this to flush out that timeline.

72 and 73

so that I understand, your opinion of me changed in 72 and 73?

[curiouskarmadog]

but that doesnt explain the lie.

you posted (56) as your current stance on me. But the reasoning for that stance you said was (72-73).

[curiouskarmadog]

see, NOW this is where a meta comes in.

if I go back and read your other games, will I find Day 1 read to be 80% made up?

[curiouskarmadog]

and it is convenient to say.

"Hey I wasnt lying, most my read Day 1 are made up...so dont hold me to anything"

so basically you want us to ignore most everything you are saying? When should we start paying attention to your votes/reads?

I am not buying.

I asked you about your motivations. You lied.

[curiouskarmadog]

Look most posts/votes are bullshit the first 7 pages of Day 1.

When I asked you about the reasons for read, you could have said...well anything really. But you clarified that it was 72 and 73. Which wasnt true. Why say that?

[curiouskarmadog]

Well if your motivation was to get things happening. Then you have.

I caught you in a lie....and now you have my vote.

Is my vote wrong?

[curiouskarmadog]

I looked at your iso to come up with a reason, didn't feel 72, 73, so said it

Is this another lie to get things started or is this "genuine"

huh, so for the record my 72 and 73 are..

Mental note, don’t attempt humour.

curious why?

also why are we talking about another game?

if you "didnt like" these posts.

what about these posts, you thought were scummy?

[curiouskarmadog]

What does energy have to do with being scummy? What does a question being "flat" have to do with being scummy. Do my questions seem flat now?

And my questions were valid. One was to sus out if someone was using "appeal to emotion" this early in the game and to find out the motivation behind making the post.

the other was to find out why in Day 1 of a new game, we were referencing a large game meta...there was literally no reason to do so.

I am not buying ANY of these explanations.

[curiouskarmadog]

Okay I got to go to work,

Would like a wagon on Elements please.

[curiouskarmadog]

gotten busy, will catch up on Sunday....also disappointed on the lack of Elements votes.

[curiouskarmadog]

Okay..time to update this game. I used this mostly as notes for myself, when I go back to reread. But if there is something here you want me to expound upon let me know.

I left off, I caught Elements in a direct lie. When caught she state she was trying to get thing moving, but didnt clarify when we were supposed to take her seriously. All around this is super scummy. My last post was 168, page 7 (we are now on 12). Further more she used a vague term like "it felt flat" when explaining why something was scummy. I just out of a game where scum tried to say I was scummy because, "my scum hunting was inorganic". Also vague and he couldnt explain or give me a examples of what inorganic was. I made fun of this for pages to come, he eventually night killed me just to get me out of his hair (he said I was smug..heheh). Vague explanations are classic scum moves. At any rate, I expect to be killed here sooner than later.

169, Elements asks if I was going to meta her (or what?. I will relax, I have been gone.
170, Elements DOES explain they town read people when they have more energy. At the time I was one of the top posters, so this is bullshit. This whole post is kind of lame and is either scummy, or lacks the ability to think through scum hunting technics.
173/174, Elements states STD hasnt said much in the game (right after they posted), STD immediately states his worry that he usually think Elements is scum (when town) early.
178, Merlyn misread my comment. Asks me about meta. I said it was pointless NOW. Meaning before you can compare and contrast someone's actions. At that point in the game (page 2?) people were talking meta. it was indeed pointless. Elements does a thing that seemed scummy that could easily be looked up. Not pointless. THATS I said, "put a pin in it for now". I assume this was just a misread any nothing else.

--NOTE ON VOTE COUNT AT THIS POINT--(7 to kill)
Bris has 4 votes, OD, MT, Elements, sheep

180, gera vote Bris....dont like this vote. Votes "because there was not to vote them". Lame reason to join, NO scum hunting. scummy vote/post
183, MT thinks both Elements and sheep are town, meh, says because of her strategy. Seems to over look after she explained her tactics, she still leaned into it...with vague comments like "flat".
186, MT thinks I am slightly town because of my reaction to Elements. Logic is faulty though. Bad Logic or trying to make friends? "I don't think scum would see town shifting reads unpredictably and without reason and turn that into "I cannot believe i have caught you in a lie this early"." If I was scum, and "caught" Elements (town) in a lie why WOULDNT I push that?!?!

MT, can you comment on this please.

189, MT references DGB. Oh I am familiar with her. She is a wild card and (no offense) uses DGB logic, which I have never been able to decode. Back in the day, I always felt she was scum. We have tangled MANY times before. I still like her in games though........for the most part. it has been 5+ years since I played with her though.
190, Hu votes DGB, for reasons.
191, I do like Hu's questioning of Sheep there though.
192-194, Hu likes me, doesnt like Elements, but still thinks DGB is more (?) scummy....I dont like this.
200/202/203, DGB thinks Elements is town (CASE IN POINT)..also sheep and bris. doesnt provide a reason.
205, OD says she would have no problem joining element wagon, but stays on the Bris wagon for....what was the reason (need to look up)
211, Elements likes DGB read giving....well you guys should probably get a room then.

What part in particular do you like?

213, DGB has MT and Hu as scum, has me as scum too, but not sure if that is real or not.
214, towwl, does a catch up, unvotes Merlyn (who is that?) and votes Elements. note: agrees with DGB about MT. all and all, like this post.
229, MT unvotes Bris.
240, EFN is caught up, unvotes, "element is meh, everyone else null, OD town....(note no revote)
243 Merlyn (that is who that is, name with gif, got it) voted DGB....dont really like this vote.

Merlyn how does DGB's list different from Elements list before I called her out? Have you seen someone in a previous game that made detail lists that was scum?..what about town

?
245, like Bris's post even though he has Elements (and me and OD) as town. Also waves a vague finger at weak hop-ons, but doesnt pursue anything...okay, maybe this is more of a null post.
257, Sheep does a catch up (?) post, OD town, MT town, Me town (meta reference), thinks the element push is goofy (uses weird logic), DGB town, towwl town, Gera town, defends Bris vote, Hu scum, ENF and Merlyn slightly scum
261, STD gives read list. of that Hu scum, Elements (not sure). everyone else town or meh.
264, MT votes Hu
268, EFN asks a good question, "why is Bris being voted again"...town points for you
273, Elements joins the Hu wagon (note left the former leading wagon to join a wagon getting steam, sure she isnt scummy) says a nothing slot
274, then pushing Merlyn to join the Hu wagon?
280, towwl posts a read list, me OD town, DGB, bris, EFN, and Elements scum
283, DGB, MT is town
285, Towwl vote EFN....going with heart over Bris (who is the leading wagon)), Element who actually lied....I dont like this vote, it is very "cover my bases". You get credit for not likely people, but dont vote them when it could matter.

What does an EFN vote do at this point?

286, STD back with updated list, EFN now scum, Hu kindly scummy, DGB now town, Gera now town, towwl now town, Merlyn now scum......hmmm, not sure how I feel about the updates. But explains them for the most part.
287, Sheep...used the term "empty questions".

Sheep which of EFN questions were empty...can you explain what "empty" means?

I am still good with my Elements vote.

going to reread (short read?) Hu, to see what the buzz is about, but I havent seen anything initially.

[curiouskarmadog]

@karmadog

You are rightness had no good reason to vote them. I checked if I had a reason not to vote them,but as I didn't have one I joined everyone else

that was awhile ago, thoughts now? who is scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

Okay..time to update this game. I used this mostly as notes for myself, when I go back to reread. But if there is something here you want me to expound upon let me know.

I left off, I caught Elements in a direct lie. When caught she state she was trying to get thing moving, but didnt clarify when we were supposed to take her seriously. All around this is super scummy. My last post was 168, page 7 (we are now on 12). Further more she used a vague term like "it felt flat" when explaining why something was scummy. I just out of a game where scum tried to say I was scummy because, "my scum hunting was inorganic". Also vague and he couldnt explain or give me a examples of what inorganic was. I made fun of this for pages to come, he eventually night killed me just to get me out of his hair (he said I was smug..heheh). Vague explanations are classic scum moves. At any rate, I expect to be killed here sooner than later.

169, Elements asks if I was going to meta her (or what?. I will relax, I have been gone.
170, Elements DOES explain they town read people when they have more energy. At the time I was one of the top posters, so this is bullshit. This whole post is kind of lame and is either scummy, or lacks the ability to think through scum hunting technics.
173/174, Elements states STD hasnt said much in the game (right after they posted), STD immediately states his worry that he usually think Elements is scum (when town) early.
178, Merlyn misread my comment. Asks me about meta. I said it was pointless NOW. Meaning before you can compare and contrast someone's actions. At that point in the game (page 2?) people were talking meta. it was indeed pointless. Elements does a thing that seemed scummy that could easily be looked up. Not pointless. THATS I said, "put a pin in it for now". I assume this was just a misread any nothing else.

--NOTE ON VOTE COUNT AT THIS POINT--(7 to kill)
Bris has 4 votes, OD, MT, Elements, sheep

180, gera vote Bris....dont like this vote. Votes "because there was not to vote them". Lame reason to join, NO scum hunting. scummy vote/post
183, MT thinks both Elements and sheep are town, meh, says because of her strategy. Seems to over look after she explained her tactics, she still leaned into it...with vague comments like "flat".
186, MT thinks I am slightly town because of my reaction to Elements. Logic is faulty though. Bad Logic or trying to make friends? "I don't think scum would see town shifting reads unpredictably and without reason and turn that into "I cannot believe i have caught you in a lie this early"." If I was scum, and "caught" Elements (town) in a lie why WOULDNT I push that?!?!

MT, can you comment on this please.

189, MT references DGB. Oh I am familiar with her. She is a wild card and (no offense) uses DGB logic, which I have never been able to decode. Back in the day, I always felt she was scum. We have tangled MANY times before. I still like her in games though........for the most part. it has been 5+ years since I played with her though.
190, Hu votes DGB, for reasons.
191, I do like Hu's questioning of Sheep there though.
192-194, Hu likes me, doesnt like Elements, but still thinks DGB is more (?) scummy....I dont like this.
200/202/203, DGB thinks Elements is town (CASE IN POINT)..also sheep and bris. doesnt provide a reason.
205, OD says she would have no problem joining element wagon, but stays on the Bris wagon for....what was the reason (need to look up)
211, Elements likes DGB read giving....well you guys should probably get a room then.

What part in particular do you like?

213, DGB has MT and Hu as scum, has me as scum too, but not sure if that is real or not.
214, towwl, does a catch up, unvotes Merlyn (who is that?) and votes Elements. note: agrees with DGB about MT. all and all, like this post.
229, MT unvotes Bris.
240, EFN is caught up, unvotes, "element is meh, everyone else null, OD town....(note no revote)
243 Merlyn (that is who that is, name with gif, got it) voted DGB....dont really like this vote.

Merlyn how does DGB's list different from Elements list before I called her out? Have you seen someone in a previous game that made detail lists that was scum?..what about town

?
245, like Bris's post even though he has Elements (and me and OD) as town. Also waves a vague finger at weak hop-ons, but doesnt pursue anything...okay, maybe this is more of a null post.
257, Sheep does a catch up (?) post, OD town, MT town, Me town (meta reference), thinks the element push is goofy (uses weird logic), DGB town, towwl town, Gera town, defends Bris vote, Hu scum, ENF and Merlyn slightly scum
261, STD gives read list. of that Hu scum, Elements (not sure). everyone else town or meh.
264, MT votes Hu
268, EFN asks a good question, "why is Bris being voted again"...town points for you
273, Elements joins the Hu wagon (note left the former leading wagon to join a wagon getting steam, sure she isnt scummy) says a nothing slot
274, then pushing Merlyn to join the Hu wagon?
280, towwl posts a read list, me OD town, DGB, bris, EFN, and Elements scum
283, DGB, MT is town
285, Towwl vote EFN....going with heart over Bris (who is the leading wagon)), Element who actually lied....I dont like this vote, it is very "cover my bases". You get credit for not likely people, but dont vote them when it could matter.

What does an EFN vote do at this point?

286, STD back with updated list, EFN now scum, Hu kindly scummy, DGB now town, Gera now town, towwl now town, Merlyn now scum......hmmm, not sure how I feel about the updates. But explains them for the most part.
287, Sheep...used the term "empty questions".

Sheep which of EFN questions were empty...can you explain what "empty" means?

I am still good with my Elements vote.

going to reread (short read?) Hu, to see what the buzz is about, but I havent seen anything initially.

Should I be worried I'm not scumreading you right away like I did last game?

Sure...how is play different? how is it the same..

really I am asking, why bring this up?

[curiouskarmadog]

287, Sheep...used the term "empty questions". Sheep which of EFN questions were empty...can you explain what "empty" means?

yes sure he's just asking questions for the sake of asking questions. he never does anything with answers + the questions are just kinda mid

What’s wrong with dripping?

Is there normally 3 scum in a 13 player?

Why?

My town read

numéro un

is Elements.

Why?

Good talk

Why is bristep being voted again?

Spoiler:

I am free from Atlanta. Unfortunately they are taking me back to Atlanta sometime next month probably if I'm not fired by then. Regardless, I have more time now to obsess over this game. I just read through the thread again and here's a rough readslist for now

just think they are town

:
curiouskarmadog
OopsieDaisy

town enough for now

:
geraintm
Morning Tweet

could easily go either way

:
Save The Dragons
Merlyn
sheepsaysmeep
Hu Tao

am sus of

DrippingGoofball
bristep123
Emperor flippyNips
Elements

Why am I on the sus meter?

in particular I usually find "why is this person being scumread" to be a slightly +wolf question

I agree with this...some. I mean people can ask questions and sort of file it away for later. I ask questions all the time that I dont reply back with the follow up for multiple reasons...in this case I can see where you are coming from. that being said...the "why" question to DGB, wasnt a bad one. when she didnt answer he seemed to acknowledge it, but you are right he didnt pursue. Both of the "what is wrong with X" type questions...arent bad ones. for example, I found it interesting that NONE of the people on the Bris wagon at the time, answered the question (seriously). That being said, you are right, he didnt follow up.

EFN....thoughts on this?

[curiouskarmadog]

we got a couple days before the end of the Day.

Out of everyone here, Elements has actually done scummy shit. I dont believe in the explanation of the lie. Have they done anything thats town here? Sort of at a loss as to why people arent joining this wagon.

For those who think my vote should be on X.

give me the case, Ill change my vote if you can sale me. Dont say, "look at my post Y", give me your case a new. I want to see that people ACTUALLY believe in their vote.

If you think my vote is absolutely wrong....EXPLAIN WHY.

we catch scum because of people stances and when and why they change.

Bris, OD, and EFN...arent voting. I want to know why.... I want you to vote. even if it is on me...tell everyone why you think I am scum...I just want to see stances...DAY 1 STANCES.

[curiouskarmadog]

@curiouskarmadog, do you have any townreads you'd like to share?

LOL, I am paranoid of everyone. that being said.

I think this question? Seems townish...seems like someone who is (or wants to appear to be) scumhunting. So you?

Leaning town on Bris....but I dont think it is because of anything they are doing. Of course, I want there next post to have a vote in it...so pin in that read.

I like Sheeps last post, leaning town there.

everyone else is null or scum

[curiouskarmadog]

Hu Tao, what do you think of Emperor and Elements?

Naughty point for you
Don't ask others their opinions like that

Gera, what do you think of Hu and Elements.

[curiouskarmadog]

Hu Tao, what do you think of Emperor and Elements?

Naughty point for you
Don't ask others their opinions like that

What do you think of Emperor and Elements?

damn got there too late.

[curiouskarmadog]

Don't ask others their opinions like that

Hey Ger, if you have been able to tell yet, this is a ridiculous statement

but ill bite.

Why do you believe that?

[curiouskarmadog]

I claim deathproof cop with a n0 guilty on
Hu Tao
OopsieDaisy
and curiouskarmadog


got the whole scum team. We can all go home now

seems legit

[curiouskarmadog]

Don't ask others their opinions like that

Hey Ger, if you have been able to tell yet, this is a ridiculous statement

but ill bite.

Why do you believe that?

It felt like they were asking someone else rheir opinions on a 3rd or 4th player - ready to use that to justify their own reads.

It sets them up for votes they never believed in but can get away with

How much mafia have you played?

Lets say person A wants to know/get the stance on record of who Person B and C, think are scum...how would they do that?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not reading 294

Oh really?

I made a scum slip in there.

too many words for you?

Or are you just trying to get the game started right now?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not reading 294

Did you read 285?

It's a good post.
I don't like how high ckd is on it, though I am biased.
ckd is tunneling on me, but not pushing it well? Their argument boils down to "Elements lied, and their reason for it is bad". In 148 they meniton when they would use meta, then highlight that again in 155 but do nothing with that? Either ckd looked at my passed games and didn't find anything they could use to back up their attack, or ckd didn't bother checking and is hoping the weight of someone lieing is enough for them to sit on me.

add to it, you are not scum hunting.

what is your case on someone? Who is scum and why?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not reading 294

Did you read 285?

It's a good post.
I don't like how high ckd is on it, though I am biased.
ckd is tunneling on me, but not pushing it well? Their argument boils down to "Elements lied, and their reason for it is bad". In 148 they meniton when they would use meta, then highlight that again in 155 but do nothing with that? Either ckd looked at my passed games and didn't find anything they could use to back up their attack, or ckd didn't bother checking and is hoping the weight of someone lieing is enough for them to sit on me.

also it is a bit of another lie to say I am tunneling on you. I mean how do you know if you havent read ALL of my posts...like 294.

so did you read 294 or not?

[curiouskarmadog]

elements still has that "big scum energy" coming into the game but i think they've mellowed out a bit. im still kind of confused as to whether this is AI based on previous experience.

i think the making up reads to get discussion going is pretty out there for scum. i feel scum would be more careful and not try to draw attention to themselves by blatantly lying about reads. i know this sounds counterintuitive but i don't think elements is caught in a lie, i think they did a goofy play because they feel comfortable. apart from the "big scum energy" elements does seem rather relaxed. i don't know how comfortable they are playing scum though.

i'm not super keen on wagoning elements now as i think they'll become clearer in time and there's other slots i feel are far worse, like Merlyn/FB, hu tao, and bristep. maybe efn too.

what was that big scum energy they had then? by relax do you mean not post or scum hunt?

seems like you are making a bunch of excuses for them.


first they lied.

It wasnt to get something started...they thought I was town, then said I was scummy. I asked why and they gave fake reasoning.

ONLY after I caught them, did they back track.

to get me off their back, Elements then said I was town.

NOW I am scum again, because I am tunneling (even though they dont really know because they didnt read my catch up post).

for the record, that "big scum energy" is gone now? At what point, do you think that scum energy dissipated?

[curiouskarmadog]

do you really think scum are going to get caught in the easiest lie i've ever seen be posted on mafiascum

it just seems like trolling is more likely

But it wasnt trolling.

also in regards to that big scum energy....

what about now?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not reading 294

Oh really?

I made a scum slip in there.

too many words for you?

Or are you just trying to get the game started right now?

Why are you being so agressive?

add to it, you are not scum hunting.

what is your case on someone? Who is scum and why?

I'm town hunting

also it is a bit of another lie to say I am tunneling on you. I mean how do you know if you havent read ALL of my posts...like 294.
so did you read 294 or not?

So when I say it it's a lie, but when Towwl says it, it doesn't warrent any comment?

who cares if I am aggressive? I post something, you dont read, yet saying I am tunneling (even though you dont really know). makes a person mad. hint: please say being aggressive is scummy...please.

quit pointing at other people. Answer the question, and then we can talk about towwl.

[curiouskarmadog]

One question I have Karma.

see, NOW this is where a meta comes in.

if I go back and read your other games, will I find Day 1 read to be 80% made up?

You state here that the meta matters with your read on El, where if they made up reads in other games that would affect your read on them. (at least that's what i'm getting from this post lemme know if i'm wrong)

Then, in 205 I state that I am fairly unsurprised to see that El had lied about her read on you, as this matches up decently well with the meta I have of her. Alongside this, in 227 Tweet states her meta read on Elements sees her flaking out as scum. At that point in the day, Elements was one of the most active posters in the town and thus a scum!el world contradicts Tweet's meta read.

Despite this, I've seen zero acknowledgement of either of these meta reads in your analysis. You did talk about 205 in your 294, but all your comment here tells me is how hard focused you are on getting the wagon going through brute force and pressure rather than talking about the things that at the time were standing in the way of your wagon (Meta reads, El's proactivity being good to keep in the game, etc.).

205, OD says she would have no problem joining element wagon, but stays on the Bris wagon for....what was the reason (need to look up)

^^ this is the quote I'm talking about.

I'll also answer the question here again even tho I've talked about this at length, as iirc Karma didn't like people pointing them to previous posts - Bri was someone I scumread harder because there weren't any strong counterpoints to the Bristar wagon. Bristar wasn't playing proactively, Bristar's meta painted their slot in a harsh scummy light as their town play was known to be stoic/unemotional (and yet reacted with some bite at my RVS vote), etc. The Elements wagon was tempting, but the proactive nature of Elements' play made me want to keep my vote away from El at the time. Obvs that has changed now, but that's due to the Bristar slot going cold, so any push there isn't gonna be bringing the town new info.

I'm wondering now if bringing these meta reads on Elements to your awareness has changed your read on her at all?

I havent had time to any meta. if you noticed I didnt post for the longest of time and JUST got caught up. is there a particular game of Elements you think would be good for me to read?

At the end of the day, if the game you have found for Elements doesnt show her lying about why she thinks someone is town Day 1 just to get it started...and then attempt back tracking on said read....it wont be that convincing.

now that Bris as replaced out...thoughts?

[curiouskarmadog]

who cares if I am aggressive?

for the record I kinda do, but that's just cause when someone becomes aggressive towards me I become uncomfortable and will thus try and avoid future interactions with said aggression. I've got soft skin so just try and tread carefully around me please lol. I feel like I don't need to get into how me avoiding interactions with other players makes the game harder to play out for everyone (since less info would end up in the game).

sure, I understand. Really though, aggressiveness is subjective.

look from my angle...and assume (for a second) I am town...

person X says you are scum
you ask person X why, and they give you a reason.
you catch that person in a lie.
then they backtrack.
then they flounder and wont read your posts.
they then say you are tunnelling (ie only focusing on them) as another reason why you could be scummy.
YET they havent read your posts (or they are lying again) so how would they know, right?
then when you add pressure with more questions, they hit you with, why are you so aggressive?

like come on.

seriously.

I understand thin skin. I really do. But I dont think I am being all that aggressive. I have (or I believe) I have found scum. And I am pushing that read passionately.

[curiouskarmadog]

OD, do you feel I am being aggressive? Seriously?

[curiouskarmadog]

Like come endgame you flip scum, the aggressive comment will only make me worse going forward.

[curiouskarmadog]

last game I had scum kill me because of something similar.

scum said my scum hunting was inorganic and was "clearly" scum...or something the like.

I was "aggressively" trying to get them to explain the comment. Essentially highlighting for what it was. BS. I would let it go.

they finally killed me for being "too smug".

this feels the same to me.

[curiouskarmadog]

wouldnt let it go

[curiouskarmadog]

(also dang sorry to hear about that endgame you had that sounds rly sucky)

I hope you dont flip scum, you seem really sweet. Would hate it if it WAS an act.


okay, I am a bit worked up though..

will take a step back for a day or two...cool down with some fresh eyes.

besides game had a couple new joiners....dont need to flood the thread with more....stuff.

[curiouskarmadog]

Don't ask others their opinions like that

Hey Ger, if you have been able to tell yet, this is a ridiculous statement

but ill bite.

Why do you believe that?

It felt like they were asking someone else rheir opinions on a 3rd or 4th player - ready to use that to justify their own reads.

It sets them up for votes they never believed in but can get away with

How much mafia have you played?

Lets say person A wants to know/get the stance on record of who Person B and C, think are scum...how would they do that?

Played some, but always badly.

I suppose youncan ask, but too many times it is done so you mean later agree with that reasoning and use it to justify your own vote. Why I awarded a naughty point

but if someone doesnt ask someone else's stance...How does ANYONE know? this reasoning is just really bad.

[curiouskarmadog]

OD, do you feel I am being aggressive? Seriously?

This wasn't addressed to me but I feel your play is a 180⁰ from last game. So it borderline makes me want to vote you.

180 you say? How so....like exactly how? This is easy to say, but how exactly? this is funny, because in Day 1 (in that game), you joined scum in voting me because I started attacking someone early who I felt was scum.

so EXACTLY how is it different? Im trying to figure out if you actually believe this or not.

[curiouskarmadog]

HighPrincessErinys [ 3 ] sheepsaysmeep, geraintm, Save the Dragons

seems like a bad wagon

Back after 2 days at legoland

I agree, this is a terrible wagon

did u get any legos

this is an alignment indicative question btw. Be cautious how u answer

I still have my childhood castle lego set, the girls didn't want to get any.

hey maybe there is a fun different thread where you guys can talk legos, this is just fluffing up this thread, which isnt helpful.

Hey Gera, who is scum and why? Ill go ahead and take that "naughty point" because I asked.

[curiouskarmadog]

I asked OD, but dont see (or missed) an answer.

Hey Elements, I have a hot second to meta. Is there a town game where you lied about a read to "get the conversation started"? If I look, will I find a scum game?

[curiouskarmadog]

I got prodded even though I posted on Tuesday?!

[curiouskarmadog]

I will post a catch up post soon.

[curiouskarmadog]

ugh deadline is in 1 day...okay, will get to this tomorrow morning.

[curiouskarmadog]

okay will update this at lunch time. have to work this morning.

[curiouskarmadog]

My last real check in was 437 page 18.
at that time, standing question to Hu
asked Elements to provide a game (for meta) that they lied about a read to get the game started.

vote count was
(3)HighPrincessErinys sheepsaysmeep, geraintm, Save the Dragons
(1)Emperor flippyNips towwl,
(2)Elements [ 2 ] Curiouskarmadog, OopsieDaisy
(1)Me - Fire
(1)MT- Hu
(3)Hu- MT, DGB, Elements

442/443, STD answers Hu's question, then votes them (no reason given)..dont particularly like.
447, Elements ignores my request for a game to meta. Assume this means there isnt one...(probably going to "deal" with me tonight, not worth addressing now)
448, towwl puts HPE at 3 votes, towwl "only peson to town read Hu"

Why, bring attention to this?

451, OD puts HPE at 4 votes...think Hu is scummy, but wary of the wagon.
461, OD mentions that in another game (243) Hu was voted out (wrongly) as town...umm, no he wasnt (towwl calls out later)...this was just a weird post.
471, sheep votes HPE...but was already voting them?
472, sheep thinks Hu looks town.
479, emperor a nothing post with a possible soft claim..ugh
480, HPE says biggest gripe is people arent posting cases..should be edited to people are posting cases on her.
483, Elements loves to wagon hop (now on HPE), HPE at 5
484, gera, if it wasnt for Elements votes, would have switched wagon....

Please explain this?

488/489, gera answers my question of who is scum, saying they dont know...then immediately votes DGB. LOL, ridiculous (note this does bring HPE to 4)
492, Elements votes DGB..
496, MT doesnt understand HPE wagon, thinks Emp and Hu better wagons. He doesnt understand, but also doesnt ask questions.

Why not get some clarification on the HPE wagon if it bothers you?

505/506/507, Fire is bringing NOTHING to the game, votes Elements (who I still think is scum) but dont like the vote "reasoning"
523, STD votes HPE
525, Elements votes HPE....
537, MT, Can FEEL town coming from Sheep
540..Hu, in that other game I lead town to victory...HAHAHAHAHAHA.. you didnt though, this has nothing to do with this game, but made me laugh. Also the votes on you in that game wasnt for no reason.

Also Hu, you didnt answer my question. How are those game different? You said they were different, so that makes you suspect me in this game..how? Please dont avoid again.

(OD asks similar in 548)
546, Fire votes Hu
553, HPE votes Hu (LOL, in 480 you complained no one was providing case....then you vote and dont provide a case) (554, 4 minutes later, maybe provides reason?)
555/556, sheep asks HPE about reads (good question), HPE has Hu scum, gera and emper, scumlite. everyone else town or null
557, towwl asks if Hu is scum who is his buddies. this is a silly post and too early for it. also do you own stock in Hu?
577, elements votes Hu...
580, Hu vote HPE...then claim investigative PR role....calling bullshit...but now this game just got interesting. if he IS a PR, this was too fucking early to claim this shit.
586, HPE, to Hu "you are really claiming to get me killed?" This is a hugely SCUMMY POST. this is saying that you think he is town, lying to get you killed. If you thought he was scum, you would not have made this post (note, you are currently voting him)....this right here makes me want to change my vote...going to finish reading...but this is just scummy.
591, towwl vote Emporer? who is a lurker...at this point, a weak vote...an understandable one, but weak
592, HPE is suspect of Hu's claim.....Suspect? YOU ARE VOTING HIM BECAUSE YOU THINK HE IS SCUM...nope...nope...words matter and you are using the wrong ones.
594, MT unvotes.
599, towwl votes elements, I am surprised with all of your buddy buddy with Hu, you are not calling out HPE.
610, DGB, HPE response is very villagery?!?! What? How can we be reading the same posts?
611, DGB...I agree with this post though.
635, OD vote emp
636, towwl makes a good post, doesnt understand the HPE town reads.
651, emp vote elements
652, Hu votes elements
653, HPE vote emplorer (if elements flip scum, this vote is sus)

vote count
Hu Tao [ 3 ] DrippingGoofball, firebringer, Elements
Emperor flippyNips [ 3 ] OopsieDaisy, towwl, HighPrincessErinys
Elements [ 3 ] Curiouskarmadog, Emporer flippynips, hu tao
HighPrincessErinys [ 2 ] sheepsaysmeep, Save the Dragons
DrippingGoofball [ 1 ] geraintm


656, MT votes emperor
page 27, sheep looks town
676, sheep votes emp (joins the person you were last voting, not as town as last page)
678, emp soft claims?!?! lol...also calling bullshit.
698, OD goes back to HPE (who has also soft claimed)
700, Hu vote HPE
704, emp votes HPE

[curiouskarmadog]

EVERY serious wagon brought out a claim

HU hardish claim,
HPE there was a nod to something, calling it soft
and Emp soft claim

there is no freaking way all three have a role.

[curiouskarmadog]

and whats even MORE funny, is that I am having trouble swallowing them all....MAYBE maybe, Hu could be believable.

I dont believe Emp...the AtE plus poor game playing makes me wrong.

HPE reaction to the Hu claim, looked scummy. If the person I thought was scum, claimed a PR, I would have reacted differently....either begrudging pulled off my vote "for now"...or double down. your reaction was..."I find his claim suspect"..it felt wrong.

ugh...

[curiouskarmadog]

bruh this is the most shittest eod

LOL, agree-ish.

[curiouskarmadog]

I dont believe Emp...the AtE plus poor game playing makes me wrong.

..

supposed to read, "feels wrong"

[curiouskarmadog]

Other than HPE, none of the other "PRs" have question the PR claims.

[curiouskarmadog]

I think jumping at the chance when theyre both apparently pr's makes sense tbf

Yea I mean it makes sense but I'm just super uneasy right now and I'll be honest I've got no clue where to vote.

But Towwl & I agreed on Emperor last night,

logic checked out, the claim isn't as solid as Hu Tao's.

say what?

[curiouskarmadog]

I feel like as soon as I vote, the day will be done quick.

....

vote emperor.

I dont believe the claim. I dont believe he is playing like a PR. I dont believe the AtE. He looks like a sad sacking scum.

[curiouskarmadog]

The issue is according to Karma HPE also soft-claimed, which has changed my opinion again, but I don't remember seeing that post

why did you ask me where it was? I could be lying..

[curiouskarmadog]

im around now

scum could be lying about PRs and could just always get out of d1 free if we just ignored all PR claims. I think it's best to go for someone scummy regardless of claim at this point.

when did HPE soft? I think i missed it in my catch up

thanks for asking...hang on

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote.

.hang on...

[curiouskarmadog]

i get that its vague so you can cchange your claim later but scum would want to be more precise = more honest = more towny

If Hu Tao is scum, it's a great strategy to smoke out town investigative roles of every kind for counterclaiming.

Part of me wants a fullclaim from HT but it's not sure how useful that really would be for town.

I misread this.

I thought she said, part of me wants to fullclaim, but dont know how helpful ...blah blah blah.

she has indeed NOT softclaimed.

[curiouskarmadog]

I thought she was saying this as a reason she "suspeted" the Hu claim

OD...thoughts now?

[curiouskarmadog]

Honestly if y’all want it to be that’s fine. If I dont target the right person then it doesn’t help town. Could hurt us

sounds like a vig.

[curiouskarmadog]

I think curious eod is the wolfiest, towwl and oopsie have been towny

that hurtful.

[curiouskarmadog]

Honestly if y’all want it to be that’s fine. If I dont target the right person then it doesn’t help town. Could hurt us

sounds like a vig.

dont want to role-speculate too much in thread, but vig-shots are protown so a vig would prefer to go into the night over being limmed in order to get a shot off

ANY role Emp could have should want to stay alive.

thats why I hate his game play

[curiouskarmadog]

I dont like Emp's play..

I didnt like HPE reaction to the Hu claim.

both look scummy...god it would be great if both WERE scum

[curiouskarmadog]

Im leaning a HPE vote.

was going to go Emp because I thought HPE softclaimed a thing...but she didnt.

[curiouskarmadog]

sorry

[curiouskarmadog]

Im leaning a HPE vote.

was going to go Emp because I thought HPE softclaimed a thing...but she didnt.

El said this already but HPE goes by it/its pronouns btw

sorry was to this

[curiouskarmadog]

i think i'm feeling more assured

VOTE: HPE

I think that is -1...

[curiouskarmadog]

okay we got 4 hours

@mod, can we get another vote count...thanks in advance.

I got to run some errands (I was only going to post of a lunch and have been here waaaaay to long)

ill vote either HPE or Emp as needed.

I would like to see the Emp full claim before I do anything.

[curiouskarmadog]

Also at this point HPE should claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

be back in a couple hours.

[curiouskarmadog]

well I think everyone here is town

I think scum would be sort of scared to immerse themselves in that quickfire environment

well you did say I was wolfy here at eod..which is it?!?!

[curiouskarmadog]

We have 3 hours so fine, here, congrats to scum for getting 3 PR claims on day one: This one is

Town Rolecop

.
Really fuckin' miffed about having to claim this early.

oh hell.....LOL

[curiouskarmadog]

OKAY...I got to say that the likelihood of the top three wagon (not counting elements) ALLLLL being important af PRs is super low.

[curiouskarmadog]

vote elements.

[curiouskarmadog]

I have my doubts about ALL the claims.

that being said, not voting a claimed vig.

the "investigative roles" are an interesting....a rolecop COULD be scum. I will be interested in seeing Hu's reaction to this.

But I have felt Elements has been scum all day. bonus points if they come in and claim a PR role.

[curiouskarmadog]

Hu and HPE both being scum, could also be fun.

[curiouskarmadog]

VOTE: Hu Tao

Not letting this go

this isnt a horrible vote. I am still waiting on Hu to answer my question. PLUS I want to see his reaction to HPE's claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

also I hate that our claimed Vig is posting like this.

The meter has been drained

This is a lot to read. Attention span. Draining.

I Wanna try but my energy level for this game has been so low

Honestly if y’all want it to be that’s fine. If I dont target the right person then it doesn’t help town. Could hurt us

when I get a vig role, I get pumped...I really follow the game and it keep me super focused.

I mean maybe the above posting is a ploy (by scum or town)...but it IS disheartening.

[curiouskarmadog]

This one half-wants to get back on HT and go "Counterclaim lol" but at this point it's like... fuckin' whatever. Us three PR claims will sort ourselves out in the following days anyway.

well you should have done that right after. I stand by your reaction was scummy. It is possible both of you are lying, AND both of you are telling the truth.

if I was a TOWN role cop, I would have been delighted to see that claim from Hu....because would have been able to see if he was lying super easy.

nope, you reaction was not good.

fuck, the more I talk about it...the more I want to vote you.....your claim is saving you right now.

[curiouskarmadog]

that being said, here we are with you claimed.

[curiouskarmadog]

VOTE: elements

I would ask where we are at. I assume if that wasnt a hammer he is at -1?

[curiouskarmadog]

VOTE: elements

I would ask where we are at. I assume if that wasnt a hammer he is at -1?

actually I think he is at -2 now (thought he had more votes) someone else want to check that math?

[curiouskarmadog]

that being said, here we are with you claimed.

Yeah, not that that has anything to do with what you were saying.

the result is the same.

I feel like as a supposedly town investigative role, if you thought person X was scum. then person X claimed the EXACTLY SAME type of role you had. You would have said almost anything else. what you said was...

VOTE: HPE

I'm an investigation pr.

Deadline too close to draw this out.

You're REALLY claiming just to get me killed?

VERY VERY suspect of HT's claim because they don't seem the paranoid type to claim at E-2. This is likely an attempt to steer people on their wagon to mine for a freebie miselim.

this doesnt look like someone with your claimed role interacting with someone they "believe" is scum.

why would town say to someone they "think" is scum, "you really are claiming to just get me killed"? That should not have been your very first reaction...

also the phrase "very suspect", just doesnt feel right.

[curiouskarmadog]

Hu and HPE both being scum, could also be fun.

if this ends up being right...going to have a good chuckle.

[curiouskarmadog]

Im not saying you should have done that.

I am saying that what you DID do doesnt track.

[curiouskarmadog]

if you are telling the truth, end game you can give me a hardy " I told you so".

but my gut is right more than it is wrong.

[curiouskarmadog]

Yea Karma the thing is, Erinys hearing Hu Tao's claim as the counterwagon knows that that's very likely gonna force the claim out of itself. I think it's very understandable to get zoned in on HT because of what was likely to follow.

being zoned in..is not my issue.

it is what HPE said.

"you are really claiming, just to get me killed?"

why would scum claim to get her killed.....ridiculous.

this seems like someone talking to someone they know/think are town....not scum.

[curiouskarmadog]

if you are telling the truth, end game you can give me a hardy " I told you so".

but my gut is right more than it is wrong.

Bookmarking this.

OH BOY.....

I have also been known to eat my own words.


this post is probably the most TOWN thing you have said in 10 pages....lol

[curiouskarmadog]

Also sorry about the pronouns

[curiouskarmadog]

as you can tell, I dont proofread... I think, I type, I hit submit.

[curiouskarmadog]

alright, will check in an hour or so....

[curiouskarmadog]

coming down to the wire here.

less than 2 hours?

[curiouskarmadog]

again role cop doesnt have to be town right?

[curiouskarmadog]

LOL, the only claim I believe (kind of) is the vig

[curiouskarmadog]

hey OD, did Hu ever answer why he felt this game was didnt than that large other than "I suspected him that game, but dont this game". I mean...that actually doesnt make any sense, but I feel like I have asked him to explain exactly..and he has ignored.

[curiouskarmadog]

of course Elements has also ignored my request to provide a game where they lied about there reads, just to get a game started....but maybe Im just being too aggressive.

[curiouskarmadog]

thats the hammer?

[curiouskarmadog]

have you done it before as town?

[curiouskarmadog]

Ill catch up tonight.

I see Elements flipped scum

ALWAYS GO WITH MY GUT.

going to go back and read WHO opposed the wagon and when.

"why so aggressive"...LOLOLOLOL....that was just AtE

[curiouskarmadog]

Karma is looking golden right now imo, that push felt like too much for a bus imo

caught this quote. That means I am dead tonight. Being on top of all the town charts does that. Well, Ill make the most of it.

[curiouskarmadog]

Karma is looking golden right now imo, that push felt like too much for a bus imo

caught this quote. That means I am dead tonight. Being on top of all the town charts does that. Well, Ill make the most of it.

If you die tonight, our vig lives another day. That's a win in my books.

I am curious...why post this? I understand the state of the game, why did you feel the need to say this?

[curiouskarmadog]

going to do a bit of VC analysis.

550, we were here.
HighPrincessErinys [ 5 ] sheepsaysmeep, towwl, OopsieDaisy, Save the Dragons, Elements
Hu Tao [ 3 ] Morning Tweet, DrippingGoofball, firebringer
DrippingGoofball [ 1 ] geraintm
Morning Tweet [ 1 ] hu tao
Elements [ 1 ] Curiouskarmadog

notable moves...
577, ElementsScum voted HuTown
595, towwl went from Emp(VIG) to ElementsScum
635, OOD left the deflating HPETown and joined the Emp wagon.
644, Towwl join OD on Emp
651 and 652, Emp joins the Elements wagon.

655, we had gotten to here. Elements Wagon was on the move.
Hu Tao [ 3 ] DrippingGoofball, firebringer, Elements
Emperor flippyNips [ 3 ] OopsieDaisy, towwl, HighPrincessErinys
Elements [ 3 ] Curiouskarmadog, Emporer flippynips, hu tao
HighPrincessErinys [ 2 ] sheepsaysmeep, Save the Dragons
DrippingGoofball [ 1 ] geraintm

656, MT votes Emp
676, Sheep on Emp -2
698, OD unvotes Emp, goes HPE
700, Hu unvotes Elements, goes HPE
704, Emp unvotes Elements, goes HPE (man sucks that only town and presumed town made these moves)

706,
VoteCount 1.9
Emperor flippyNips [ 4 ] towwl, HighPrincessErinys, Morning Tweet, sheepsaysmeep
HighPrincessErinys [ 4 ] Save the Dragons, OopsieDaisy, hu tao, Emporer flippynips
Hu Tao [ 3 ] DrippingGoofball, firebringer, Elements
DrippingGoofball [ 1 ] geraintm
Elements [ 1 ] Curiouskarmadog

okay going to skip ahead to when the Elements wagon got a little bigger (902)
799, towwl on Elements
801. OD unvotes Hu goes Elements.
814, I vote Elements
816, HPE votes Elements
819, MT votes counter on Hu (OD signals she will go Hu)
827, Sheep votes Elements
872, STD votes counter. (interesting....follow a rabbit hole 286, where STD firms up his Meh reads, but ignores Elements)
892, OD UNVOTES ELEMENTS TO VOTE HU..with the following reason.

I can't see another player's wagon getting through in 2 hours unfortunately.

(using Sheep's vote count from 834)
elements [ 5 ] towwl, OopsieDaisy, Curiouskarmadog, HighPrincessErinys, sheepsaysmeep
Hu Tao [ 4 ] DrippingGoofball, firebringer, Elements, Morning Tweet
HighPrincessErinys [ 3 ] hu tao, Emporer flippynips, Save the Dragons
DrippingGoofball [ 1 ] geraintm

STD puts Hu on 5 v 5... (even though at one point he stated Elements giving off big scum energy, when pressed could not really explain why that changed)

OD could have stayed...both wagon were at 5v5.

902,
Hu Tao [ 6 ] drippinggoofball, firebringer, elements, Morning Tweet, save the dragons, oopsiedaisy
Elements [ 4 ] towwl, Curiouskarmadog, HighPrincessErinys, sheepsaysmeep
HighPrincessErinys [ 2 ] hu tao, Emperor FlippyNips
DrippingGoofball [ 1 ] geraintm


just by looking at that...

OD and STD look bad. (my gut says at least one of these are scum).

going to ISO them.

[curiouskarmadog]

Karma is looking golden right now imo, that push felt like too much for a bus imo

caught this quote. That means I am dead tonight. Being on top of all the town charts does that. Well, Ill make the most of it.

If you die tonight, our vig lives another day. That's a win in my books.

I am curious...why post this? I understand the state of the game, why did you feel the need to say this?

Why not? I don't see why the post is unwarranted I thought you were genuinely scared of dying lol

So you thought I was scared (who cares?)...as town, wouldnt you want scum to kill me over a vig. why bring attention to it? you could have leaned into it right? Like.."yeah I can see that".

I am sure scum arent stupid, but still.

[curiouskarmadog]

ALSO HU, if you are reading this in the dead thread.

your claim yesterday was an extremely poor play. We might have been able to go Elements yesterday if it wasnt for all the claims. Yours looked bad....I would have had no issue also hammering you yesterday.

moving on

OD

I recall you defending Elements pretty early after I caught him in that lie. Do you recall what games you Iso that led you

Sheep and Elements have made a lot of posts but I'm still yet to see anything that's pinged me towards town or scum for them. It should also be noted Elements is someone I've played with a lot and so I'm very aware their activity early game isn't really indicative of their alignment.

I asked you about your motivations. You lied.

My day 1 play is to get things to happen. If I say my motivation for doing X is to get things to happen it stops getting things to happen in the same way. So of course I lied, just so happened that this was a provable lie

As an fyi for people who want my opinion, this *kind of* checks out. Elements, like me, is someone who wants to push a proactive Day 1, often putting themselves on the line in order to create some form of activity. And you can't pressure someone into a reaction if you vocalise that intention as you vote them, because then they're fully aware of what you're doing.

Imagine if on my Bristar vote, instead of picking out an actual tangible reason to vote them, I just said nothing/an off-hand joke/outed the fact I wanted to see what they'd do if I voted em. Would we have seen the "glib" reaction then? Likely not.

On the other hand, yea El straight up lied about their thought process I can absolutely see why you wanna push this. Plus I think El is kinda scummy this game so far so I've no problem with them being a wagon. Just as someone who's played many games with El I don't find it ultra surprising like this is some out-of-character hand caught in the cookie jar moment. The biggest issue I have is El trying to manipulate me into preaching a stance that would benefit them with the activity thing :3

El has much more tangible things to be suspicious of, what with the open manipulation of me with the activity point and the lying about reads thing. But El is being an proactive player today poking/prodding/getting info from other players, and that's a great asset to have in our town.

there are more examples of how you say Elements was scummy, then defend him or write off their behavior.

[curiouskarmadog]

Also for what it is worth,

did a quick meta on Gera (his "I hate Day One" whining, left a bad taste in my mouth). It looks like as scum and town, he mentions he doesnt like day 1.

[curiouskarmadog]

Karma is looking golden right now imo, that push felt like too much for a bus imo

caught this quote. That means I am dead tonight. Being on top of all the town charts does that. Well, Ill make the most of it.

If you die tonight, our vig lives another day. That's a win in my books.

I am curious...why post this? I understand the state of the game, why did you feel the need to say this?

Why not? I don't see why the post is unwarranted I thought you were genuinely scared of dying lol

So you thought I was scared (who cares?)...as town, wouldnt you want scum to kill me over a vig. why bring attention to it? you could have leaned into it right? Like.."yeah I can see that".

I am sure scum arent stupid, but still.

I'm sorry for caring about people's feelings lmao. I don't think that hard about what I post I just post, and I don't think scum are stupid enough to leave Emperor alive another day.

thats fair...I just like to know people's motivations for posting what/when they do.


thoughts on the other stuff I posted?

[curiouskarmadog]

sorry missed this post.

Do you think an Elements wagon would've gone through yesterday if I hadn't switched?

The reason I switched was to ensure we actually voted someone out. I supported the Elements wagon at multiple points throughout the day, a lot more than like anyone here bar you.

What makes Firebringer, someone who actively argued against the Elements wagon at the end of Day 1, or Tweet, someone who also refused to enter that wagon and stayed hard locked onto HT, any more townie than me in that scenario?

yes, I think it could have...or at least we will never know.

And scum frequently bus their partner (See my complaint about STD too) only to bail when it counted. you did that. the only reason I am not voting you RIGHT NOW, is because we were down to the wire.

and dont distract. I am not talking about Fire or Tweet. I am talking about you. Im also looking at them

what do you think is a better scum play...

scum who buses their partner, but finds a reason to get off when they can.

or scum who says their partner isnt scum.

[curiouskarmadog]

dead its tell no tales.

[curiouskarmadog]

Hmm Idk how to feel about the daisy case cos she’s the whole reason I scum read element

yeah I think daisy looks good for starting up the wagon yesterday

She did?!?!?!?

[curiouskarmadog]

I don’t really want to kill daisy tho. Like literally the only reason element was on my radar

Then don't. The only person who scumreads me here right now is Karma afaik, and imo I just knocked down their biggest point as to why I'm scum.

well you didnt...literally half of those people, would have flipped if needed.

look, as I said..You defended Elements a lot in the same post you said he was scummy. During a time that we were Hu (TOWN)(5) vs Element (SCUM)(5) you switched away from someone you kept saying was scummy.

like I said, you DO have in your favor we were down to the wire. But the above facts I am not forgetting.

[curiouskarmadog]

Hmm Idk how to feel about the daisy case cos she’s the whole reason I scum read element

yeah I think daisy looks good for starting up the wagon yesterday

i dont really want Daisy gone

I care not.

now that we are in Day 2, who is scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

my reads have been awful so far this game

i wanna look over some people and see if i still feel as good about them.

Merlyn seemed pretty bad but firebringer has been a little better, and everyone else i tr at one point or another so i'm kind of lost.

will try to iso some people before i go to survivormeet

thats it?

Im not buying this.

why are you lost?

[curiouskarmadog]

And yes thirdly I did defend Elements on the meta side of things, because I do believe that her lie wasn't particularly indicative of her alignment. I still believe that. You keep screaming for evidence and yet as I keep telling you my reads on her are based on non-forum games so I can't give you any games to go and read. I scumread Elements because she tried to manipulate me into taking a hard stance on activity so I would have to townread her + her flip (as has proven) was gonna be juicy info-wise.

"screaming for evidence"? Have I asked you for that since you told me it was irl?

Am I wrong about what I said, it was 5(town)v5(scum) and you decided to vote a claimed PR.

I have ALSO said I get the circumstances AND I would have hammered him if needed....so that is why I am not voting you right now.

you seem to be blowing up after I said, I am not going to forget it though. facts are facts. I just happen to think that STD is scummier than you now.

[curiouskarmadog]

my reads have been awful so far this game

i wanna look over some people and see if i still feel as good about them.

Merlyn seemed pretty bad but firebringer has been a little better, and everyone else i tr at one point or another so i'm kind of lost.

will try to iso some people before i go to survivormeet

thats it?

Im not buying this.

why are you lost?

STD??

[curiouskarmadog]

i think the elements/firebringer interactions were spooky, the defence of elements at the end of the day from firebringer was spooky, and i think fire is enjoying the openwolfing a spooky amount.

std's slot clearly isn't worth pressuring right now and fire's been begging for a push so i'm giving it to him :3

WHY is the STD slot not worth pressuring?

this reminds me of what you were saying about elements yesterday.

holding it to you today. WHY is it not worth pressuring?

also

VOTE: STD

[curiouskarmadog]

And yes thirdly I did defend Elements on the meta side of things, because I do believe that her lie wasn't particularly indicative of her alignment. I still believe that. You keep screaming for evidence and yet as I keep telling you my reads on her are based on non-forum games so I can't give you any games to go and read. I scumread Elements because she tried to manipulate me into taking a hard stance on activity so I would have to townread her + her flip (as has proven) was gonna be juicy info-wise.

"screaming for evidence"? Have I asked you for that since you told me it was irl?

Me specifically no but you kept pestering Elements for a game iirc.

Like yea I am blowing up a bit because I thought we had something good going on

To see someone who I'm so sure is town coming at me for what I feel is an incredibly understandable decision just sucks. Especially when you're applying that read with such pressure.

well lucky for you I dont think that being overly defensive is scummy.

other stuff you have done in the game..yes,...this no.

you SEEM passionate. but the fact remains that you DID pivot at a key time.

I dont think you are the play today.

but I dont see you doing anything particularly towny right now. find some scum and we can talk.

[curiouskarmadog]

what do you think is a better scum play...

scum who buses their partner, but finds a reason to get off when they can.

or scum who says their partner isnt scum.

also to answer this, the better play is obvs the former, but the way more common play is the latter.

whats the question?

[curiouskarmadog]

maybe he is deflated because he knows he looks scummy as hell and doesnt have a defense.

so he is checked out.

[curiouskarmadog]

you think Fire would be a decent slot to pressure?

out of everyone here, that would produce the least.

now if you said Gera...I would be listening....but you didnt.

[curiouskarmadog]

but I dont see you doing anything particularly towny right now. find some scum and we can talk.

hang on a minute, according to emperor i'm the one that convinced em to shoot el?? i found scum already lol.

well he clearly isnt fucking reading the game.

I truly thought he read the last thing said yesterday (My question to El) and thought...hmm, Ill off her.

guess not.

[curiouskarmadog]

calling it for tonight.

its time for all you lurkers watching mommy and daddy fight, to provide some content.

[curiouskarmadog]

so, it was the STD and Oops votes on Hu Toa that look worse.
and i am giving Sheep a green colour too.

wow this was incredible useful and insightful. only if it wasnt already done.

[curiouskarmadog]

here are my current thoughts if the Vig is looking.

some version of town -Emperor flippyNips, sheepsaysmeep, towwl
null - DrippingGoofball, Firebringer
some version of scum - OopsieDaisy, Save The Dragons

need to iso/meta more (but leaning scum for both) - Morning Tweet, geraintm,

now clearly these 4 arent all scum, it does pain me (believe it or not) to put OD in the scum pile. OD seems to be towny and is scum hunting (which is more than 80% of the people here are doing), but she seems smart. And I bet if I were to meta her scum games, I would find the same OD. But I am an actions speaks louder than words kind of guy. and as of right now, her actions (when it comes to timing of votes) is against her.

add to the list to meta OD.

[curiouskarmadog]

...are against her...

[curiouskarmadog]

did you at least cross reference to see if I ignored, or fluffed up anything?

[curiouskarmadog]

personally I feel like STD has that "big scum energy"

[curiouskarmadog]

we are in no rush, there is no harm in waiting for a claim...

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm a novice doctor.

I dont believe it. At all. LOL, fun game, everyone has a power role.

[curiouskarmadog]

As lose as Fire is playing, Wouldnt FireScum have hammer STDtown?

[curiouskarmadog]

Ugh I'm sorry. Been busy with survivor meet prepping and work is hectic as well so I can't do what I normally do which is play at work

I'm a novice doctor.

You knew you were a likely elimination today, and you wait till now to make this claim.

when do you think I good time to make the claim would have been?

[curiouskarmadog]

so either StD is telling the truth and is town, or is bsing and scum.

tee hee...

you just described EVERY claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ugh I'm sorry.

Been busy with survivor meet prepping and work is hectic as well so I can't do what I normally do which is play at work

I'm a novice doctor.

I also dont believe he has been busy...

between his last post (before the above)

i tr every other slot pretty much so i'm wrong

Who do you tr the least

firebringer i guess? im gonna try to look at some isos though probably tomorrow at work to see if i can come up with something i feel more confident in

he posted 14 times and 5 different times.

there hasnt been much action in here during that time.

more likely than not, they decided in their scum thread for him to back off here, and crafted this WAY TOO convenient claim.

my vote stays.

[curiouskarmadog]

As lose as Fire is playing, Wouldnt FireScum have hammer STDtown?

Not necessarily. I think scum would easily be able to wait for town to hammer a green std.

They also could be scum together no?

sure (on both counts),

but I dont think we are that lucky to have pegged them both..

[curiouskarmadog]

STD is playing quite scummy,

he (with OD) led us off the scum wagon to kill town.

his claim is WAY to convenient.

I understand towwl's logic, but until I see a wagon that makes MORE sense. I am staying.

[curiouskarmadog]

so either StD is telling the truth and is town, or is bsing and scum.

tee hee...

you just described EVERY claim.

Hu Tao lied and was town in this very game lol

dammit....

ALMOST every claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

STD is playing quite scummy,

he (with OD) led us off the scum wagon to kill town.

his claim is WAY to convenient.

I understand towwl's logic, but until I see a wagon that makes MORE sense. I am staying.

If you agree with Towwl's logic, why not wagon me?

considering it...

[curiouskarmadog]

he (with OD) led us off the scum wagon to kill town.

also disputing this claim. firebringer and tweet both also contributed towards weakening the elements wagon in that same sequence of play. firebringer with the elements defence and tweet by hopping onto the hu tao wagon as that disucssion was happening. to point us two out whilst ignoring the others doesn't make sense to me.

look we are about ready to talk in circles. you know the pivotal point I am referencing.

[curiouskarmadog]

STD is playing quite scummy,

he (with OD) led us off the scum wagon to kill town.

his claim is WAY to convenient.

I understand towwl's logic, but until I see a wagon that makes MORE sense. I am staying.

If you agree with Towwl's logic, why not wagon me?

considering it...

but that being said...it is HARD for me to swallow that ODscum would post above.

[curiouskarmadog]

STD is playing quite scummy,

he (with OD) led us off the scum wagon to kill town.

his claim is WAY to convenient.

I understand towwl's logic, but until I see a wagon that makes MORE sense. I am staying.

If you agree with Towwl's logic, why not wagon me?

considering it...

but that being said...it is HARD for me to swallow that ODscum would post above.

UNLESS you are the type who are prideful and think that their scum game is untouchable.

I dont think we have ever played before....

so cant tell at this point.

[curiouskarmadog]

ohhh good maybe curious will stop tunneling soon

well I tunneled on Elements...

now I am focused on StD and Od.

if I am right, why is tunneling a bad thing?

[curiouskarmadog]

game would be funny if its curious and oops

note to self, do everything I am doing in the game when I am scum..check.


note to future metas. I am not doing this in the game we are currently in together. I swear.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ugh I'm sorry. Been busy with survivor meet prepping and work is hectic as well so I can't do what I normally do which is play at work

I'm a novice doctor.

You knew you were a likely elimination today, and you wait till now to make this claim.

when do you think I good time to make the claim would have been?

not sure, but right before they disappear for 5 days wasnt it.

so generally if someone is VLA, they should just claim before they go? I am asking specifically for STD. WHEN would have been the right time to claim?..and lets throw in a "why?" too.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am very much sheeping Towwl right now which I kinda feel bad about cause it means I'm not producing a whole lot of original daisy content(tm), but p much everything Towwl is saying just makes sense to me.

great you acknowledged it, but I am assuming you take responsibility for that decision.

I dont think DGB is scum....she is just a null read for me. Vig fodder in my opinion if the Vig doesnt have a better option.

I

[curiouskarmadog]

well a DGB kill gets us little to no information (other than me not thinking we should kill her). an STD flip (either way) provides a ton of information.

towwl, your thoughts on OD and sheep deferring to you?

[curiouskarmadog]

i still don't understand why you're not voting me karma lmao. i mean i am town but everything you've said has showed that StD & I are your two biggest scumreads, and with StD's claim and Towwl's logic (which is my logic too but in a sheepy "I just agree with it" way) it makes sense to see what happens tonight and then judge StD based on that alongside the Day 1 stuff.

with that in mind, it just leaves me as your other big scumread. and it's not like my flip doesn't give info, most of the game has been townreading me with a couple of outliers but i've pushed on a lot of people and have been controlling a lot of the conversation.

tho tbf you can also look into tweet cause i do think she's getting overlooked by a lot of people, including myself the more i talk about her the more sus i'm getting of her lol.

Why vote you? Are you trying to get me to stop voting STD? he is my biggest read atm. A vote on you does nothing. Also, I am not 100% sold you are scum AND I am sure you saw there are about 4 people in my scum pool. NOW, if STD flips scum, you are NOW again in the situation you were in with Elements. You said you felt X was scum but for "reasons", you voted someone else. I am an actions speak louder than words kind of guy. I dont know if it is your charisma or what, but I dont want you to be scum....its just...its just...well your actions they feel scummy. if you are town (win or lose) after the game we can sit back and have a good laugh....

I do not believe his claim. if he WAS a doc, a green flip would hurt us...but I am 99% sure he is lying. He claimed the ONE THING that would stop a hammer. I have recently seen STD play as a solid town. this isnt it.

I ALSO dont like the..."well I refer to someone else for my vote" bullshit that is happening right now.

take ownership of your own reads. (this goes to all)

STD is the vote today.

[curiouskarmadog]

also OD, if you are town, you and I are the biggest posters in this game....most likely we will not see end game. Im pretty sure I wont.

[curiouskarmadog]

or we can kill scum versus trying to work with them.

[curiouskarmadog]

or we can kill scum versus trying to work with them.

If you were open to a DGB vote there'd be no need for it!

this is a silly statement.

[curiouskarmadog]

What if I said, while I was reading StD's other mafia threads, I saw him state he tends to lurk when he plays scum. Which is what he has done this game (not counting current situation). In comparison to his other current games where is was constantly posting AND the game I just finished with him when he was town?

[curiouskarmadog]

by mafia threads, I mean scum PTs

[curiouskarmadog]

also going to post this, so everyone doesnt have to dig.

mafia love to do some hand waving with statements like below. if gives them a way to "like" or "not like" someone without really having to explain.

elements still has that "big scum energy" coming into the game but i think they've mellowed out a bit. im still kind of confused as to whether this is AI based on previous experience.

I call him on it.

elements still has that "big scum energy" coming into the game but i think they've mellowed out a bit. im still kind of confused as to whether this is AI based on previous experience.

i think the making up reads to get discussion going is pretty out there for scum. i feel scum would be more careful and not try to draw attention to themselves by blatantly lying about reads. i know this sounds counterintuitive but i don't think elements is caught in a lie, i think they did a goofy play because they feel comfortable. apart from the "big scum energy" elements does seem rather relaxed. i don't know how comfortable they are playing scum though.

i'm not super keen on wagoning elements now as i think they'll become clearer in time and there's other slots i feel are far worse, like Merlyn/FB, hu tao, and bristep. maybe efn too.

what was that big scum energy they had then? by relax do you mean not post or scum hunt?

seems like you are making a bunch of excuses for them.


first they lied.

It wasnt to get something started...they thought I was town, then said I was scummy. I asked why and they gave fake reasoning.

ONLY after I caught them, did they back track.

to get me off their back, Elements then said I was town.

NOW I am scum again, because I am tunneling (even though they dont really know because they didnt read my catch up post).

for the record, that "big scum energy" is gone now? At what point, do you think that scum energy dissipated?

He doesnt really answer the question (because it is bullshit)...so he changes tactics.

do you really think scum are going to get caught in the easiest lie i've ever seen be posted on mafiascum

it just seems like trolling is more likely

I dont let me get away with the hand waving comment.

do you really think scum are going to get caught in the easiest lie i've ever seen be posted on mafiascum

it just seems like trolling is more likely

But it wasnt trolling.

also in regards to that big scum energy....

what about now?

he comes back with

i think elements's energy did change from being more bombastic to a little more focused around the time they start pushing hu tao

these are just words though. it doesnt explain WHY he felt bombastic is scummy, or why focused is town. Hes played a lot of mafia. He knows being bombastic is not scummy (see the last game I was in with him) and being focused as nothing to do with being town. ALSO, Elements WAS not focused here. They werent providing cases and was just jumping on wagons. This is a load of shit.

I wish I had followed up on this. I at the time got busy, then it was the claimfest that occurred yesterday so this got lost.

StD not only changed his vote at a pivotal time, but his explanations of why Elements big scum energy disappeared was just...well false.

Also....and this isnt part of my case...but stuck in my crawl.

i was wrong about elements :<

i know it doesn't look great

but i genuinely didn't know

im kind of busy today but i'll try to post any thoughts i have

bolded is just weird phrasing. Im an investigator in real life.....when someone keeps saying "Honestly, I blah blah blah", it means they are being dishonest about something else. We ALL "genuinely" dont know. Why add this? This is a stretch....BUT it stuck out to me.

but like Elements...when I got scum in my teeth...it is hard for me to let go.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am having trouble recalling EVER being in a game where "everyone" thought someone was scum, but we werent going to kill them. If no one thinks they are town, why do we need certainty?

well unless something truly earth shattering happens...this is where my vote is staying.

you ALWAYS kill scum when you got them.

lets say...
we are down to what 2v8 right now?
lets assume we kill town today and the vig also hits town tonight. 2v6
uh oh...but there wasnt a kill? Std comes out and says..I protected X (a scum buddy).
well I guess he and X are town then....Day 3 we kill ANOTHER town...2v5

now, who knows how many kills the vig has...but lets say he has another and kill TOWN AND scum again...doesnt have a kill...2v4 (Std again says he protected X)

that puts us at 2v4 (with Std and X looking town)....given some of the people in the town who are not following...or are just lose cannons...THAT is not a place I want to be. I mean, I wont be here, Scum will definitely kill me off before this point.

I get there are a lot of assumptions in the above scenario...BUT it could happen.

IF I WERE SCUM with StD, I would be an advocate for this route.

it IS RISKY...but they are already down one scum and people clearly think StD is scum...I would try that gambit.
----

OD, tomorrow if scum didnt have a kill and no one claimed a doc ability, would you still be willing to off StD?

[curiouskarmadog]

Jesus...I am working overtime here.

Ive done my part.

If you think someone is scum...off them.

Im taking a break for this for awhile....this game can be soooo frustrating.

cant wait to read the mafia PT...either I am striking fear in scum...or im looking like a complete jackass.

Ill look at this again on Sunday or Monday.

[curiouskarmadog]

@mod also requesting a vote count

[curiouskarmadog]

fine.


I hate it.

I imagine some kind of shenanigan will happen.

Ill die tonight, and Std will say.."well I protected the vig"...

[curiouskarmadog]

ANNND I am done for real.

[curiouskarmadog]

I was hoping as a father's day gift, STD would have been finished off.

I guess you guys hate fathers in this thread.

normally I would do my long ass, "this is what I missed" catch up....but this conversationis..... "Std is scum let kill him v std is scum, lets not kill so we can test X".

when fucking shenanigans occur tomorrow and we "discover" another reason not to kill StD...ill be pissed. Well I am already pissed.

did I read some where that Emp, could day kill?

boy that would make me happy, of course, people will then have to scum hunt.

[curiouskarmadog]

when fucking shenanigans occur tomorrow and we "discover" another reason not to kill StD...ill be pissed.

[curiouskarmadog]

also for the record, I understand the plan.

I just am not happy about it. it feels wrong.

[curiouskarmadog]

so what are we thinking,

percentage chance that MT is scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

It is possible, but I doubt it.

the StD flip will be telling, MT? not really...

unless MT IS SCUM...

but given who is on it and their reasons, I do not think that MT is StD partner.


NOW, if (VERY SLIM CHANCE), StD IS town....that opens it up, COULD be possible.

Been so focused on getting StD dead, I havent really considered a partner... OD looks bad....but do I think that both ODscum and StDscum, left the Element wagon together?!? not likely.

[curiouskarmadog]

also, hats off to our Vig.

Emp's play has been lame (sorry..but true). but that kill set things in motion that was needed.

I feel like I would have had ANOTHER up hill battle today trying to get Elements killed, D2.

[curiouskarmadog]

man, I checked back in to see the flip.....

just more silly talk..

yeah NOW lets ask MT who scum is...

silly.

[curiouskarmadog]

still no flip?

[curiouskarmadog]

for shits and giggles.

Hey StD, dont leave us guessing, before the flip...were you really scum??? anything you want to say before the great beyond?

[curiouskarmadog]

I hope you dont flip scum, you seem really sweet.

Also Karma do you mind if I add this to my signature as a quote? I thought it was sweet

its true....I really didnt want you to be.

[curiouskarmadog]

if you are telling the truth, end game you can give me a hardy " I told you so".

but my gut is right more than it is wrong.

This one told you so.

you won this battle.

[curiouskarmadog]

thanks mod for the game...it was a quick fun one.

[curiouskarmadog]

I hope you dont flip scum, you seem really sweet.

Also Karma do you mind if I add this to my signature as a quote? I thought it was sweet

its true....I really didnt want you to be.

well hey you got your wish

my opinion of you would have been shattered...SHATTERED