New York 115: Wickedestjr's Large Mafia (Game Over)

[DavidParker]

oh god... dp.... oh godd

Hi SB!

Seems I have a lot of reading to do.

Btw, claiming cop.

[DavidParker]

Seems I don't even get to finish my readup : (

oh well long night phase hopefully so i can catch up!

[DavidParker]

Yo scum, do you plan on killing me tonight, or should I actually bother to finish reading the thread?

[DavidParker]

Just confirming that his role is this: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... y_Neighbor ?? First game with new roles out of newby games. Anyways, time to actually read this behemoth of a threat.

Will post later tonight probably

[DavidParker]

Have to agree, and the fact the mafia have a doctor makes it almost certain there is another mafia group or a SK imo.

[DavidParker]

@mod: dana voted mitsu

[DavidParker]

LEWL. Fail.

[DavidParker]

Ugh chevre my cop claim was entirely jokes. Mostly directed at SB who was in my previous game when I was VT and claimed cop. He knew better than anyone i was kidding so maybe we should be lookin at him as possible scum who definitely didn't try to kill me because he knew i was joking!

[DavidParker]

Wow, behemoth of a read. I just read it. I probably should have been taking notes, but I think it's good to just know what's happened and I'll go from here. Right now I have to agree that there is a solid case against Mitsu. There's definitely a connection between Mitsu and EGL whether they are scum partners or there was just some "buddying up" going on, it's haard to say, but I'm leaning towards scum partners.

However, the driving factor behind my vote is there were 2 bandwagons on him at different points yesterday, likely had a scum or two on both. As stated, both bandwagons dissolved relatively easy, and I think finding Mitsu's alignment if revealed as scum would be huge in finding other scum who chainsaw defended him.

[DavidParker]

Vote: mitsu

I believe that's L-3

[DavidParker]

Yeah, that statement screamed scum trying to fit in. If you were town, you don't have to try to fit in. You just scum-hunt and analyse post and always act honestly. The things you posted are a given, that you don't want to lynch town again. Herp derp.

[DavidParker]

Interesting trickery... Bit of a no-tell. If mitsu is scum, he/she probably knew that they weren't hammered and played along. If town, well, may or may not have known. I'm still in support of a mitsu lynch.

[DavidParker]

@BM: Why am i avoided from your list of players to be looked at?? Considering the player who i replaced, had no posts (i think from checking his iso) and no read on him day 1.. I haven't yet done any real scum hunting of my own, it's kind of hard to, subbing in 40 pages into a game, but still possible if I put in the effort. I mean you have no way of connecting me to anyone or forming a good read on me, Why was I ignored from your list of people you want "heat on"?

[DavidParker]

Having posted long/analytical posts in my other 8 or so games, I felt obliged to post here (so all my watched games have me as last poster!), but havn't got any huge analysis at moment, I will go back and analyse those 3 players you mentioned BM but dont expect anything until maybe 24hours from now. Uruguay/netherlands just started and then i have to sleeP (its currently 3am) and busy all day tomorrow!

so, just saying hi

[DavidParker]

That post of Blaze's screams active lurking and jumping on a bandwagon thinly disguised as contribution.

And what is SH?

At first I agreed to some extent, but the fact he stated DH is scum and must die (ie: convinced he is probably scum) in such an aggressive manner isn't something I'd typically expect from a scum who has just been under pressure. I'd expect him to possibly bandwagon but try to post a proper justification of his vote and maybe show some reluctance.

Also, please stop the third person guys? kthx.

[DavidParker]

Oh wow, and your defence is no better. Good contribution yourself, pal.

Vote: DemonHybrid

[DavidParker]

Just stating that Richard had jumped onto my scumdar :O

[DavidParker]

Speculating on game-setup is more likely to reveal town PR's than anything else. Town PR's, if they exist, will claim when it benefits the town if at all.

[DavidParker]

What about option 6: Lynch BM?

[DavidParker]

I forgot the sarcasm tags BM.

[DavidParker]

Agree on multiple mafia groups.

With that said, blaze is still the scummiest player here to me.

Vote: blaze

[DavidParker]

I also still find mitsu scummy.

[DavidParker]

I'm inclined to believe blaze over DH at the point. Although I don't believe either really. Since I don't believe either, I'd rather lynched the claimed VT than the claimed doctor as well.

Also his AtE in iso77 is unimpressive.

Unvote

Vote: DemonHybrid

[DavidParker]

The whole DH lynch started on a bandwagon. Seeing as a huge amount of are sure Blaze is scum, why don't we lynch him and analyze people on the bandwagon if he flips doctor? Which I don't see happening. Not only that, but he'll make a great information lynch too. We have scum right in front of our eyes. Leaving him be isn't an option to me. My vote stays.

If he's a Doctor he's almost certainly dead tonight and then we can analyse the people on his wagon today anyway. Why specifically would he make a great information lynch?



Also, Richard, what does TYVM stand for?

Regardless, of his role or alignment, I don't see blaze dying tonight... Why would scum kill him? He is in the top 3 scummiest players, leaving him alive benefits scum even if he is a doctor. We shouldn't use his claim as a reason not to lynch him today. Although BM seems to have some sort of a plan that (as said) he isn't fully telling us all about, although I have a guess, which I'm not going to make public for the reason he didn't.

I think a blaze lynch would make a very good information lynch as stated.

[DavidParker]

Just ignore him.

[DavidParker]

Alright, I'm very satisfied with BM's explanation. Seems to be a justified vote, and explained very well in a town-like manner his actions.

Right now my biggest scum-vibe is from vezo.

Sorry for flying so far off the radar, it's hard to be too involved when you've subbed in 48 pages in :p

I'll still post my main scum reads of course and be involved and posting, just I can't recall every wagon on day 1 and who was on them (in fact very few, although I have been skimming some votecounts when I find a current scum-suspect)

[DavidParker]

However, I would like to test BM's theory.

Vote: q21

[DavidParker]

I think a vezo or q21 lynch is good today. To me vezo has a more consistantly scummy game, although part of his recent scumminess, relies partially on q21 being scum as well. That's why I hopped onto the q21 cause.

I still don't believe blaze's claim, and personally think he is likely to be on the "other" scum team. But as said, he can "protect" BM tonight. And mafayu with the town read on night 1 should be kept alive.

Also, BM, I guess you don't know your sanity!?!? Isn't it possible that mafayu is still scum if your sanity is unclear?? I'm not too sure, as i'm only just out of newbie games on mafiascum.

I think with the recent revelations, one of these 2 players will be lynched today, so its best people comment on those 2.

I'd still support a demonhybrid lynch btw. He could be a scum buddy of blaze's on the other team :p. Easy game! vezo+EGL+q21 scum team and blaze+demon+1 scum team. (not really sure how numbers would be balanced in a game like this)

Also, I dont care about EGL's post... just chill out and have fun, thats why i play mafia :/

[DavidParker]

You ignore EGL, that's all. Pretend it didn't happen and don't let it influence you. If you can do that, then it doesn't matter. Even though totally ignoring it is unrealistic, fact is you can still have fun.

The site I played on before this, all kinds of "cheating" occurred, and people would complain everygame, but it was still a big laugh and everyone had fun.

My favorite, was for a while instead of quicktopics, there was "wolf1" "wolf2" "wolf3" accounts that the scum would have access to that could use a wolf forum. They were only "allowed" to post in this wolf forum on those accounts. However, in one game all accounts were used by the wolves to post in the main thread, as well as in other sections of the forums (this is a warcraft 3 gaming site, so in the dota section etc) to frame people. As i was one of the wolves, it proved for a hilarious game (mostly because all 3 wolves had basically revealed themselves on day 1, and this was the only way we "almost" won).

[DavidParker]

Oh man! I forgot about Mitscum Kirijo!

[DavidParker]

he didnt vote you yet.

[DavidParker]

wow. retardation strikes.

i suppose i should claim cop again like i did with my first post? (/sarcasm)'

@CJ: WHY DID YOU CLAIM???? (unless you have some results from last night to post)

Due to recent claims...

Unvote

Yes, BM lied, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. At least until he comes back and explains himself further.

Although, if BM is now going to claim VT, I might support his lynch. Hmm.. Well I'm going to wait and see. Frankly, I'd rather lynch someone else today.

[DavidParker]

maybe. i want to see where this goes first.

[DavidParker]

regardless, he wont be having any more sheep

[DavidParker]

Look, who here honestly thinks BM is scum still??? I think it will be few. Not to mention, we get very little information from lynching him, since it's just become a policy lynch...

Do you honestly think BM calculated all of this as scum, and think he would get people to react how I'm reacting (which is defending him, and saying we shouldn't lynch him... there will always be masses who want to LaL.. I'm not one, I lie as VT all the time as well haha, SB lamer attacked me for it, but not BM apparently )

With all that said, the possibility he calculated our (or my) response did cross my mind. The thing that makes me believe him is his cop claim. He didn't have any real reason to claim cop as scum, he wasn't under any real pressure yet.. So I'd rather we get a better information lynch today on a player such as DemonHybrid/blaze/asaclardy

[DavidParker]

@CJ: Why have you ignored us and not commented on your claim?

[DavidParker]

maybe accidental?? Or maybe BM just "thinks" he killed EGL.

Vote: BM

[DavidParker]

Well, bm any last words?

[DavidParker]

and as i was reading what i hadn't read i was getting ready to unvote. bm seems obvious town, and i dont believe in policy lynches. buts it's too late I guess.

[DavidParker]

Unvote:BM

If it wasn't.

[DavidParker]

this lynch reveals 0 information...

everyone on his wagon knows hes town. When has a policy lynch ever told the town anything?

and yeah, i was very aware when i posted that i wanted to unvote, if not hammered, that i would appear scummy, but that was my honest chain of thought as i read from top of the page, i wanted less and less to have you lynched.

[DavidParker]

My guess is scum doctor as well. I havn't had a chance to properly read through after SB's flip.

[DavidParker]

Adrien is still scum, as well as Blazez, and I wouldn't at all mind seeing either of them die today. I'd still prefer Demon, though. If Blazez gets to L-1 I'll gladly hammer, and if Adrien picks up a few votes I'll swing that way. For the time being, at least, though, still keeping my vote where it is.

At any rate, these 3 people need to be the lynches for Days 3, 4 and 5. No exceptions.

Also, I don't like this post. You are just telling the mafia who to keep alive if they aren't scum. Also, there was a chance of a mafia cross-kill if one of these is scum, but now neither mafia would target these players. Because you have said this, now we probably will have to do these lynches.. There was always a chance of night kills on these players, unless we have a vig who gets about doing that. Regardless, please refrain from posts like this, it's not scummy, it's just anti-town.

[DavidParker]

@CJMILLER: Nothing to report from your tracking??

[DavidParker]

well, if he is a mafia doctor, he would be a blue mafia doctor.. something tells me from quick iso that sb and blaze weren't scum together, but thats just a hunch.

[DavidParker]

q21 visited DemonHybrid last night.

Oh, just noticed this.

[DavidParker]

That's somewhat believable. If he was a mafia-roleblocker (as BM cautioned us he might be before he got lynched), I don't think he would be roleblocking DH.

Either way, the two of these players are not on the same scum-team.

Also, can Q21 confirm that this is true??? Would be good to know our watcher is actually a watcher (or you two are scum-pals)

[DavidParker]

@Everyone: Would it be a good idea for people who were "neighborized" by silverbullet to claim? That would provide some further information for us to go on.

[DavidParker]

You also didn't consider that there are 2 scum factions. Ie: the other scum faction could kill the other team's doctor.

Since there is 2 scum factions, we can't really speculate into WIFOM'y areas of "oh scum left this guy alive, cuz hes scummy".

Right now I am leaning towards a mitsu or asaclardy lynch.

[DavidParker]

Vote: mitsu

Just cuz BM persisted in defending this guy, doesn't mean we have to...

[DavidParker]

Although i am tempted to honor one of BM's dying wishes...

Are you REALLY going to let Guy0 get away with a completely unexplained vote after providing hardly anything to today's proceedings?

[DavidParker]

I think the scummiest thing I've found about mitsu is how easily multiple band-wagons on him has fallen apart.

However, Given that there are 2 scum factions as opposed to one large scum faction, that is less of a tell.

With that said,

Vote: asaclardy

[DavidParker]

You have failed to explain why you don't deserve a vote.

[DavidParker]

/pass

[DavidParker]

Rolefishing/No-lynch vote/ stupid statements that make him seem to want to appear town ie: "L-3 don't do anything stupid".

And also I feel as if the blaze wagon is not the wagon for me right now.

[DavidParker]

@Everyone: Would it be a good idea for people who were "neighborized" by silverbullet to claim? That would provide some further information for us to go on.

I think this might be a good idea. One mafia already knows who was "neighborized" and being neighborized presumably doesn't give any hint as to role status, so sharing who Silverbullet made a neighbor might be good information to have. I can't see how it could hurt.

This is my first game with 2 mafia factions. In past games has it been common that both mafia factions have the same roles?? ie: both mafia will have 1 doctor and 1 neighborizer?? Or do they usually have different roles??

If they commonly have the same roles, I'd support a lynch on another neighborizer (ie: someone claim a neighborizer) [offtopic: thats such a weird word, and this is my first game with them in it]

I don't think people claiming if they were neighborized by SB would actually be that useful.. Unless they are about to be lynched, although they could still be on the opposite mafia faction, it would make it less likely.. Or they could claim it when the person he neighborized has actually been killed. So that's kind of useless.

The only useful neighborizing claim I can think of is if someone was neighborized by someone other than SB, and that might be the "Red neighborizer"

[DavidParker]

This is my first game with 2 mafia factions. In past games has it been common that both mafia factions have the same roles?? ie: both mafia will have 1 doctor and 1 neighborizer?? Or do they usually have different roles??

[DavidParker]

three teams??? ...

[DavidParker]

Why does it matter who he watched day 1?? If it was useful information he would have told us already....

Also, I forgot about adrian.. He definitely seems scummy to me. I'm fine with a blaze lynch but it's still early days.

[DavidParker]

Hmm, I'm okay with mitsu. But here is what I'd like to go after:

The CJMiller/q21 scum-team. (either red or blue)

Why? Both have claimed PRs. Both are still alive. CJMiller claimed a PR for no apparent reason, so far his PR claims have only been used to back up q21's claim as a jail-keeper. (ie: Said q21 visited demonhybrid, "jail keeped" him). If CJMiller had a reason to claim Watcher, I may not be so skeptical of the two of them. But right now, I believe they are likely scum.

Also, I almost voted vezok because I don't like the way he ended day so quickly, and found some other things scummy, but I told myself if neither of CJMiller/q21 dies tonight then I am going to push a lynch on one of them today (yes WIFOM intended). It just doesn't add up.

[DavidParker]

I'm not sure who is more likely to be scum, CJMiller or q21, although the case for them being scum buddies BOTH claiming PR's is quite posssible, I'm trying to figure out who is the logical lynch, to lynch first, to prove the case that both are scum (ie: if only one is scum, who is it, if neither is scum, lynching,which, will prove it).

CJMiller claimed watcher for what reason!?!?! Right now I'm more inclined to believe he is lying.

But q21, has a strong case against him presented by BM before he was lycneched (ie: ignoring the request for mod-action against the dead-scum who posted). Although not as strong.

Anyways,

Vote: CJMiller

[DavidParker]

Well, you've now forced another PR claim, CJMiller. Congrats.

[DavidParker]

Unvote

Alright, CJMiller's claim has become believable, I'll attribute him/q21 being alive to Doctor WIFOM as well as 2-scum-faction WIFOM (ie: scum think other faction will kill them off, and dont want to both target same person)

Especially if sucrose can confirm this story with some sort of a claim (or telling us it's better not for him to claim, I'm fine with that as this point). Just need a confirmation that he visited vezok or not.

Right now, vezok seems scummy to me, Adrien has been constantly scummy and would probably make a good lynch, toon_fighter was someone who hugely, pinged my scumdar on day 2. And I voted asaclardy yesterday (I think?) and would support a lynch on him as well.

Foilist just pinged my town-dar for his logical defense of CJMiller.

I retract my concern about those, given that CJMiller has results from last night which can be used to test his claim (unless there's such a thing as a scum-watcher)

[DavidParker]

Not that close?? Some mafia-cross-kills are bound to happen at some point...

[DavidParker]

Basically.. day 1: lot's of various bandwagons etc etc. BM leading his sheep around...

We know there are 2 mafia factions.

BM claimed to be cop, but was a VT, and as a result caused mass PR claims: q21 "jailkeeper" (possible scum-roleblocker), CJMiller watcher, and now a cop from Sucrose. Oh and blaze claimed cop when he was a VT, which was very unfortunate, and I'm still not sure how/why we lynched him but oh well.

Also,

Vote: Toon Fighter

Him or Richard to get my vote today probably (Would be willing to vote asaclardy as well)

[DavidParker]

toon fighter's 1440 is just game-discussion and he doesn't even attempt to look for scum or say who he finds scummy. In fact I would go so far as to say the post is borderline role-fishing.

[DavidParker]

WOW.

I just had an explanation to help you. But realized a huge flaw in it, so deleted my whole post.

Basically, night 2: q21 targets DH. CJMiller watches this. (interesting coincidence, why would he watch DH ??)
night 3: CJMiller watches vezok who is visited by sucrose. However, q21 claims to have jail-keeped sucrose. (sucrose then later claims he was jail-keeped)

my question is, if a player is roleblocked (jail-keeped) and attempted to use an action on a player, while the actions fails (ie: cop investigation), does the player still get shown to the watcher? I guess this is something that is probably included in CJMiller's role description and he is probably best to answer it.

Right now: both sucrose and q21 are claiming to have been roleblocked. I think it's possible q21 is confused by sucrose visiting vezok. Although, it doesn't add up.

HERE IS WHAT BOTHERS ME:

A Jail-keeper should PREVENT a player visiting another at night........... Sucrose visited vezok (according to watcher, and sucrose agrees he targeted him). HOWEVER, sucrose claims he got no result/was roleblocked... How does someone who is roleblocked, still visit a player ?!?!?! I'm seeing a possible scum team amongst these players. (not all 3)

[DavidParker]

@SUCROSE

: Can you confirm that 1) You targeted vezok last night, and 2) You were roleblocked last night? Did you just get no result, or wer eyou told you were roleblocked?

@q21

: Confirm you targetted (jailkeeped) sucrose last night? Ie: he should not have visited vezok

@CJMILLER

: Confirm that you saw sucrose visit vezok last night? Although judging by you quoting the pm, i'll take that as confirmation. CAN YOU further explain how you think your role works? ie: does it say if someone else targetted the same player as you, or say if they visited them?? Because right now, sucrose targetted vezok (as well as you) but didn't "visit" him since he was roleblocked. Maybe mod could help verify. I dunno.

Right now to me it seems either CJMiller or q21 is lying.

[DavidParker]

wait, cop got guilty on mitsu? or he just wants to lynch him??

thats bad logic.

[DavidParker]

Bah. I am not confirmed. Who did q21 managed to block and get blocked on the same night???
CJ is confirmed now I think.

unvote
Vote Mitsu

Cop says so.

who is this cop!? ;/

/confused.

[DavidParker]

the cop didn't reveal to having gotten a town-result on adrian though has he????

so why can't you think for yourself?

[DavidParker]

........................................
how do you even know he's a cop? he could be a scum-roleblocker claiming cop or something?

he hasn't claimed a town-result on adrian so because the cop wants him left alive, u do for what reason?!?!

the cop has no say over the actions of the town. Unless somehow we get 100% confirmation he is the cop and we know for sure his sanity, i'll be thinking for myself kthx.


Also, my problem with our 3 PR combo of sucrose/CJMiller/q21 is that they are all alive still and haven't caught us a single scum. So far every night there has still been multiple night kills and CJMiller has only outed our cop sucrose.

@Sucrose: Who did you target night's 1/2 and what results did you get?

[DavidParker]

i don't get how our cop has no results from night 1/night 2 to tell us?

sucrose seems scummy.

[DavidParker]

q21 is DEFINITELY a role-blocker of some kind however. Whether town or scum is another matter.

You just subbed in SlySly so I'll let you off:
q21 called out BM, when BM claimed to be cop (and he was a VT), because q21 had role-blocked BM. This led to a policy lynch on BM. Hence, q21 is definitely a roleblocker. If he is town he is the jailkeeper as said (probably, or some other kind of PR that would know BM was lying), if he is scum, he has some sort or role (roleblocker or detective-like role) to know Bm was lying. Okay, so he might not be a roleblocker, but he definitely is either a town PR or scum PR. q21 being scum doesn't add up at this point.

Adrien has been around and should know this....

Vote: Adrien

@Sucrose

: There seems to be some confusion floating around, but, have you claimed cop??? If not, what were you doing visiting vezok last night??

Sucrose did claim he was roleblocked, he just didn't claim cop from what I'm reading, although has strongly implied it.

[DavidParker]

Alright, at this point it's safe to say sucrose/cjmiller are almost definitely both town.

q21 definitely seems like scum now.

Except for one small point... which i'm going to re-read the post order on.

[DavidParker]

Vote: q21

You are not a "jail-keeper". So what are you?

[DavidParker]

(L-4)

[DavidParker]

Yeah, there is either a mod error, q21's claim is bogus, or "maybe" q21 was roleblocked himself... (seems very unlikely)

[DavidParker]

q21 roleblocked, AND sucrose roleblocked by someone else!!!! 3 roleblockers. Duh!

and trust me, i fully agree with lynching q21. His claim doesn't add up. So unless mod comes in here and confirms he made an error with last night's results. I am going to try lynch q21.

[DavidParker]

From my understanding slysly, each night the neighborizer chooses someone to become a neighbor with, and is given a quicktopic with them to discuss anything/etc.

That's why i was suggesting earlier maybe the targetted people of this neighborizer's should come out to give us more information.

[DavidParker]

yeah, hence let's find out if there's an error with a q21 lynch.

[DavidParker]

although i'd be surprised if he flipped jailkeeper at this point, more likely to find scum.

[DavidParker]

dont actually believe that happened :p

richard why do u care bout those odds? what a scummy thing to say.

[DavidParker]

Look, I'd love to believe that a mod-mistake may have happened, but we can't risk q21 being scum at this point, and we need to lynch him.

Case closed.

[DavidParker]

Alright, I come here, bearing a certain willingness to not lynch q21. We are getting to a point where town-numbers are dwindling with only 2 dead scum and a lot of dead town. WIth that said, scum will be looking for cross kills. At the very least they might settle for killing a town PR (ie: q21). So, lynching a probable scum who isn't like to get caught in a scum cross-fire tonight could be the way to go.

Vote toon fighter

[DavidParker]

toon fighter's defense has confirmed my scum read on him,

stick with the wagon guys!

do not falter to adversity

[DavidParker]

oh don't get me wrong, i'd still fully support a q21 lynch, seems quite likely he may be a scum buddies of mitsu's with recent happenings. but the lynch didn't seem to be going anywhere.

[DavidParker]

Alright, time to back off q21.

Unvote

Vote: Toon fighter

[DavidParker]

i've wanted toon fighter dead for a while, and my scum-dar has proven to be somewhat reliable this game.

[DavidParker]

yes

i've played with masons before, but they were always both town masons.

[DavidParker]

I'd like to voice my opinion that almost all of you have been very scummy at times, with the exception of Foilist and SlySly (somewhat), and I would support a lynch on almost anyone except these two and one of our 3 claimed PRs today.

[DavidParker]

Because let's face it, there are probably still 4 scum left, 3 on each scum faction, it will just come down to figuring out the scum teams later on.

[DavidParker]

Sweet. Let's lynch mitsu or Adrien.

[DavidParker]

Oh I'm not denying it was a bit of a cop-out. With the number of scum left, statistically speaking a random lynch is very likely to hit a scum. With that said, I'll still be voting for who I find more likely to be scum than others Chevre. I don't think you can say I'm not scum-hunting based on a single post of mine, when I've done plenty apart from that.

Anyways, I think it's finally time we took out mitsu.

Vote: mitsu

[DavidParker]

We know how to count as well, scum. Thanks for defending yourself.

[DavidParker]

It hasn't fallen on me at all, but I'm ready for it

[DavidParker]

can we get some results from our PRs?!?!?!

who was jail-kept?? that could explain the lack of a second kill. (hint: could)

who did you track??? anything?

[DavidParker]

Adrien and toon fighter are both people i'd like dead. Adrien not scum hunting and just bandwagoning, toon fighter because he's welll... scum.

Vote Toon Fighter

[DavidParker]

wait. what.

now this i don't believe.

[DavidParker]

what's your excuse sucrose?

[DavidParker]

Vote: q21

[DavidParker]

Are you retarded? it has only been brought up constantly over the past 10 or so pages of discussion... That was pretty much ALL of our actual discussion the past 2 days was the mass PR claim.

Time to think through all the claimed actions by our PR's.

Also, i'm liking the richard wagon more after his recent post.

[DavidParker]

just got off a 13 hour shift, watched some tv, and was gonna come back and try figure this mayhem out with our PR-fiasco.

I fail to believe BOTH pr's didn't submit an action. One is enough to not believe. This just gets more and more ridiculous. For me now, its just a matter of figuring out which one to lynch today.

[DavidParker]

I didn't target anyone.

I've got 10 hours sleep for the last 5 days and in the light of RL for the past few days, I forgot to send in a night action.

Great, neither did I. Anyway, I still think Richard is probably scum, followed by Toon Fighter and Foilest.

Maybe Adrien too, but we've only got 1 scum PR flip per team so far and that bugs me. But maybe the scum PR's don't line up and there really was only a doctor and an Neighborizor for scum PRs. I don't really think Chevre or SlySly are scum, they've both been pretty town the whole game. Too bad Mitsu flipped town, I was so damn sure she was scum.

I seriously thought I had another day until deadline, and I work second shift. It sucks, I'm sorry. Nothing I can do about it now.

Alright. So here we have the two explanations.

Firstly, Explanation discussion:

q21 - He claims to have been super busy in RL/not sleeping, but by some magic coincidence can post right at the start of day phase. How convenient that your super busy couple of days coincided with night phase, and happened to just end?? It's not hard to submit even a half-thought out night action if you know you're going to be busy. Heck, in past I've changed my night actions half way through night phase, when i realized i had more time to think about it.

Sucrose - Doesn't give a reason at first. Then makes a reason which is better than q21's. However, the order of claims is somewhat important. The first person claiming to forget seems more believable than the second person who claims to have forgotten (IMO). If only one is scum, it seems less likely a scum would claim to have forgotten, then a town claims after, than vice versa. Personally, I think a scum would lurk at the start of day phase to see the other PR's result before posting his/her own.

So, what do I think?

Both are scum. If only one is scum, I'm more sure q21 is scum based on the nature of his explanation and some of his scummy'ish actions previously.

Vote: q21

(reaffirming to get a wagon goinggggg!!!)

[DavidParker]

actually i'm not even sure who i'd pick as scum if only one was. Frankly, I think either both are scum or neither is scum.

Actually,

Vote: Sucrose

[DavidParker]

man. the game mechanics confusion has made this game less about mechanics and more about role mechanics and what not.. lame.

on one hand, BOTH sucorse and q21 not gettin targets is ENTIRELY uNBELIEVABLE... but on the other hand, as said, because of mod explainign how a role would work if it existed makes it hard to lynch him.

i still think a q21/sucrose lynch is optimal for today.

[DavidParker]

sigh. i'm eagerly awaiting some sort of answer to come to me.

I find it hard to scum hunt when we have to go off the information we are given. Two PRs have both conveniently not given us any results. That is scummy as hell. So scum hunting aside I think one has to go today.

[DavidParker]

can we lynch sucrose already

[DavidParker]

Vote: richard

time to vote for obv scum rather than the guy who is probably scum because of his lack of PR results but might have a legit excuse.

[DavidParker]

yeah dw q21, i went back over stuff and you are town. Sucrose i'm leaning town as well.

[DavidParker]

you're both acting like children.

Adrien pretending he decides who we lynch today and saying lynch vezo tomorrow. (although that does seem town-ish to me, it still annoying)

and just the constant bickering. I couldn't care less about your case on Adrien to be honest Richard. Nor could I care about who Adrien says we have to lynch.

[DavidParker]

go away.

[DavidParker]

ehhhh vezoscum

[DavidParker]

Vezo-Adrien team? The recent Adrien pushing strikes me as bussing, prima facie.

this post strikes me as scummy. noone has really talked about bussing with 2 scum teams, and this seems like some sort of reach for him. Rather than talking about a single person to lynch, he's trying to lead us onto 2.. regardless, i have no idea what im talking aout cuz im smashed rieet noww, but richard is probabaly scummerdo.

Vote:rchard

i think me vote on him already but oh welll

[DavidParker]

we're kind of getting to a point where there are as many scum as town anyways. I think that's why i find so many of you scummy and only have a town read from 1 or 2.

Each scum faction will have either 3 or 4 ppl. So with 12 alive, and 2 scum dead... That leaves between 4 and 6 scum.

[DavidParker]

Alright, I don't want the votes going back up while I'm asleep, and Sly seems to be lurking today, so....

Don't lynch Richard. Sly is scum, he killed CJ last night.

I do think it's a good guess Richard is Sly's partner, but we'll get to that later.

Now we're talking!

I like how he previously claimed to have no result (assuming he did find out that slysly killed CJMiller), at the start as that did leave some playing room to find slysly's scum partner.

Slysly's response seems very worried.

Also, richard's actions at L-1 is scum beyond all scum. Asks people to unvote, saying he will do isos. Iso's isn't even scum hunting, it's just putting a scummy twist on every post he has made, or basically looking at all his posts from a scum perspective, which you can do for... Anyone!

@RICHARD: I don't want an iso and you talking about all his posts, if you're making a case on Adrien, do so using logical arguments, and back it up with quotes that explain it where necessary. An iso is useless, and the fact you resorted to one makes me find you scummier. (Also asking us to unvote etc)

But, if sucrose has results, I am willing to act on those.

[DavidParker]

False results? The only thing that would make them false is if CJMiller is scum.

[DavidParker]

There are results showing you targetted the person who died, with a claimed jailkeeper/watcher/tracker and now you claiming a PR (that isn't going to be redirector), another PR as a redirector seems unlikely, unless some of these are scuM PR's. SlySly, sadly if there is a redirector you've drawn the short straw, but the picture paints you as scum.

Vote: SlySly

[DavidParker]

already trying to lead our next kill? thanks scum.

[DavidParker]

(@Richard)

[DavidParker]

Well.. Considering we've had 2 mafia factions, and a SK, and a lack of nightkills, I'd venture to say that mafia factions may be only able to kill every other night. Anyways, that's discussion that isn't really relevant. SlySly flipping SK instead of scum makes it a bit harder to find other scum, but I still feel Richard is the way to go for now.

Vote: Richard

Also, at what point (numbers of players) should we be considering a mass claim? The idea becomes more enticing as our numbers decrease it seems. Right now it seems plausible that we have at least 4 scum alive, 2 Red and 2 Blue.

Anyways, those are my initial thoughts with 10 alive now.

[DavidParker]

2 cases?

There is 2 mafia factions (i assume) AND a SK. Theoretically 3 kills a night. (Should have been 2 last night with SK dead)

Only one night has had 3 night kills, anyways, I think a mass claim may be imminent and useful soon.

[DavidParker]

popcorn mass-claim time?

[DavidParker]

Asa, its only L-3, Adrien's vote failed. I targeted Richard last night. The single kill is either a scum crosskill, or I saved Richard or I blocked Richard. I don't see why as good a lynch target as Richard would be a NK target fro scum so I'll cross that option off the list. Crosskill on the tracker? Quite possible. RB on Richard? Also possible and the reason I targeted him. At this point I don't want to race through the day in a single page, so I'm going to ask anyone who thinks Richard is town to stand up and say so and tell us why they think that.

Unvote

I have a theory as to why Richard might be town, but it's filled with WIFOM and if I state it there will be even more WIFOM and it will just help scum too much. I might bring it up tomorrow though, depending on what happens today.

[DavidParker]

Work it out yourself if you want, but it's too WIFOM'y for me to bring up.

[DavidParker]

Vote Toon Fighter

For the same reasons posted in the past day or two, I still find him easily as one of the scummiest still alive.

[DavidParker]

that just strikes me as a reckless townie who doesnt care if he dies, and doesnt care about his win-con because ppl are voting for him. not a scum move.

[DavidParker]

both of your posts seem scummy and forced to me foilist.

i think we found the two scum from different factions.

I'll be nice. Asaclardy can go first.

Vote: Asaclardy

[DavidParker]

scum is scum is scum.

Vote: Foilist

[DavidParker]

I see at least 3 scum on Richard's wagon. Maybe he is town after all!

[DavidParker]

It seems the red mafia weren't happy that the blue mafia pushed a lynch on them so struck back!

With 2 from each mafia team dead, and 1 SK dead, I think it's safe to assume there is one scum on each team right now.


@Everyone: What do people think of a mass claim right now? Would it help town or scum more?

Looking at the votecount, I think we will find more scum on Meh's wagon day 1.
Day 2 lynch is a bit of a no-tell as it became a policy lynch.
Day 3 lynch, probably find another scum.
Day 4 lynch, almost definitely find a scum, none on it revealed yet.
Day 5 lynch, lynched 3rd party, might find another scum on there but already 1 from each.
Day 6 lynch, might find another scum towards the end of the wagon.

With that said, there are 2 people from the wagon/vote analysis who stick out:
Toon Fighter and Adrien: Both are on day 1/3/4 wagons where there isn't a huge amount of scum on these wagons.

For now,

Vote: Toon Fighter

[DavidParker]

Hmm, well vezok has been on every wagon except Richard (scum) wagon.

Day 1 he wasn't on the wagon, but that was his predecssor Velocirraptor (I THINK)

@mod:

: Did vezok replace velociraptor? Front page says he replaced himself!

[DavidParker]

Just take a look at Toon Fighter.. He seems scummier and scummier!

[DavidParker]

shhh you are in a somewhat scummy position yourself

[DavidParker]

Oh I don't find you that scummy by content alone, but your position on all the wagons can't really be ignored.

[DavidParker]

Do you see me voting for you....

[DavidParker]

Because I don't believe he is "confirmed" scum like others have stated.

[DavidParker]

Most desperate plan ever.

Time for the leap of faith.

Vote: vezok

Hammered.

[DavidParker]

Wait and see the flip boys and girls.

If he is VT, last 2 scum are between Asa/Toon/Adrien.

Be ready for mass claim tomorrow.

[DavidParker]

That, is surprising.

Anyways, My guess is we have 1 blue mafia left alive.

Since I presume we aren't in lylo, I might be willing to hold off a mass claim until tomorrow.

As I have said the past 2-3 days.. Toon Fighter still seems the scummiest to me.

Vote: Toon Fighter

[DavidParker]

Wait, because he's confirmed town, that means his scum reads are 100% accurate... That sounds like lazy-scum to me...

Just like we should have listened to all of BM's scum reads when he was lynched, and then lynched q21 the following day!

[DavidParker]

ugh. hi. i'm still here. It's not like there's been any discussion the past day or two, it's just been getting to agreements on who to lynch.

Anyways, since we need something to help town discussion I am suggesting a popcorn-style mass claim.

i am willing to go first and then decide who goes next and so on. With 5 left, I think it's a reasonable time for a mass claim to have as much information around as possible, but more importantly it will give us something to discuss.

As soon as a few people agree with this idea I will happily claim.

[DavidParker]

As far as I know/remember noone else has claimed.

Adrien, you seem pretty intent on not contributing....

Considering the attention is on myself/toon fighter at the moment, that rubs of as fairly scummy.

[DavidParker]

In fact, looking at your play from the last day or two, where you were actually active and a point of discussion, the fact you aren't contributing now, makes me think you are happy to let us dual it off as long as we are pushing for a lynch other than your own. You not committing to a vote yet but leaving it until later is blatant fence-sitting, you don't even make a solid stance (just say that toon fighter seems to be omgus'ing), as if to explain a later hammer if you have to go into LYLO tomorrow. This all comes off as scum.

Vote: Adrien

[DavidParker]

Woohoo for votecounts every 6 posts!

[DavidParker]

prod asaclardy?

[DavidParker]

Oh iso analysis after I accuse you of not contributing how convenient.. But wait, you just said there's nothing to work with.. Huh? How does that work.

The fact is you are posting. I suggest things like a mass claim or there's me voting for toon figher and him voting for me based on vezok's suspicions, but you don't comment on them. Asaclardy is missing so far, Chevre posted an updated wagon look and said he would post soon so is off the hook. But you posted and posted nothing when there was stuff you could have commented on. You didn't even make it seem like you planned on contributing. But now that you've had me get on your back you're willing to. Great.

Also, don't see what you plan on getting from iso's of people.

[DavidParker]

It's up to you. If you think it will benefit the town: do it. If you think it will be a waste of time and not accomplish anything, then don't. I'll tell you that for me it won't make much difference.

Discussion Time!

Anyways, going under the assumption there is 3 blue and 3 red mafia, which seems reasonable right now. (unless there's 4 of each or something, in which case there is 3 scum alive, so I have a 3/4 chance of lynching scum anyways)

Asaclardy is probably town:

If I'm being too hasty, lemme know. Vote: RichardGHP

That is not a townie sentence right there. That's a scummy sentence trying to make sure you don't step on anyone's toes. "If I'm being to hasty?" Really? Townies don't ask permission, townies vote. He doesn't even have a major wagon on him.

unvote, vote: Asaclardy

This doesn't strike me as busing, but genuinely believe them to be of different alignments because of this.

Foilist goes on to push for Asaclardy's lynch quite heavily. Asaclardy is town.


At the same time, Foilist ignores Adrien/Toon Figher and Chevre. Adrien takes a lot of flak from numerous people so that is somewhat surprising, while Chevre hasn't been pressured by anyone but has a generally town read from everyone and a town vibe about him. Toon Fighter gets pressured by me mostly and a few other people occasionally too. So, this seems to strengthen cases on Toon and Adrien.



Now to Silverbullet...

-Adrien C

Why state a general theory and not investigate further into it?
Do you have any suspicions at all?

Possible Coaching?

Chevre you earn a few scumpoints for suspecting DP only because of his joking cop claim from his very first post (Which I am now again reverifying).

Keyword is only a few but yeah. (Also not saying DP can/can't be scum/cop/etc.)

Dunno what to make of this. But the fact there is some interaction between the two over a moot point makes me think Chevre is not scum with them. But really don't think it clears him.

@Toon
If someone threw a vote on Mitsu right now, would you hammer? Your statement confuses me... Why bother waiting for a vote if you are willing to hammer?

Interaction between these two, although this is a serious game related question and a useful one, it could be a scum interaction. I think similar to Chevre's quote a bit of a no-tell.


Conclusion:
Asaclardy is town.
I think Adrien is more likely scum than Toon Fighter.
Chevre is still neutral/no idea status but probably town because of it.

Oh and wagon analysis seems to be a useless pursuit at this point.

[DavidParker]

Oh, and, because I'm bored:

@Remaining Blue Mafia Member(s)

: I killed your scum buddy Silverbullet.

I'm a one-shot Vig.

[DavidParker]

I was wondering how long it'd take you to start grasping at straws and jump onto Toon Fighter's wagon despite saying that you find both Asa and Toon Fighter as most likely scum. You've just confirmed my vote.

And stop twisting my words. When I say he's probably town because I'm neutral on him and don't have a solid read, it's not because of that alone. It's because there is you and Toon Fighter who are both VERY scummy. IE: Process of Elimination. If you/toon fighter/asa were all very towny, I would be saying Chevre is likely scum, but you aren't. It's only logical for me to give a townish read to someone who I don't have a solid read on if 2/3 of the other people in the game have a very scummy read. (This is all assuming we have only 1 scum left)

[DavidParker]

I don't know if it's just me trying to strengthen my tunneling on Adrien or not.. (Pretty sure it's not since before analysis I was more convinced Toon was scum), but looking at the votecounts (Yes, it was useless, but I was bored), the one and only thing that stood out was the distancing in votes from Adrien/foilist.

They were only on the same wagon on day 2 and 6. Day 2 was the policy lynch on BM so they can easily get away being on the same wagon. Scum are more often on different wagons and not all on the same mislynch together.

Day 1 you can see the 3 red scum on different wagons. Sure you'd maybe expect another scum on the big wagon so that alone didn't convince me. But day 3/4/5 Adrien/foilist were ALWAYS on different wagons. To me this is distancing and them not wanting to put too many scum on a mislynch.

[DavidParker]

Anyways, that's the end of my contributions until someone other than Adrien actually posts.

[DavidParker]

Considering I am a PR I was kind of expecting 4 VT claims... Was interested somewhat in Chevre though.

The AtE here is disgusting and incredibly anti-town. Hint: You have a win-condition.

[DavidParker]

Would still like a claim from Chevre/Asaclardy (Or a replacement for Asaclardy)

[DavidParker]

The fact I haven't been quick lynched just told me one thing.

VOTE: DavidParker

How do you get quick lynched when one person is voting for you and you need 3 to lynch, and there is (most likely) only 1 scum?

[DavidParker]

Simple. There could be as little as one scum for all we know. If one of the other 3 people were scum, they probably would have hammered me right then and there. This is why I voted for myself in the first place (yeah, I guess you were kinda right when you said it was a gambit). However, the fact that all of them posted without hammering me, leads me to believe that the "at least one scum left" had to already been voting for me. It's not me, so it must be you.

Wait... once again. You had ONE vote on you. How does someone quick hammer when you have 1 vote on you? IT takes 3 votes to lynch. There is only 1 scum left. You didn't have 2 votes on you.

[DavidParker]

Oh wow, I was only looking at the most recent vote count. I assumed no votes on him had changed since I only saw his vote on me. Had a brain fart in realizing that he self-voted.

Regardless, Adrien, this assumption of yours that scum would hammer doesn't make sense. We aren't in LYLO. The most likely scenario we are in right now is a 4:1 ratio, meaning 2:1 ratio tomorrow if we mislynch. Scum would be hesitant if anything to hammer at this point.

[DavidParker]

Given it's 2 weeks away something tells me we won't struggle to find a majority.

Adrien is the most scummy for me.

Followed by Toon Fighter.

[DavidParker]

Eww. Sorry for not posting.

This is my prod-response. I've been active and watching this thread. But let's face it, no one has really put in any input and I've said all I have to say. It's just a matter of Asa/Toon/Chevre putting down a vote, unless they think some more analysis, ie: Asaclardy's iso on me to come to change anything.

One thing that does bother me is that people are focused on both myself OR Adrien as the last scum. And Adrien seems fixed on me. I'm still fully considering the possibility that any of you other 3 are (Well not really Asaclardy for reasons posted... but he might have some other 3rd party role for all I know..) I'm just putting my vote on Adrien and trying to get things moving because he is by far the scummiest and I've seen/analyzed all I can until a flop comes.

[DavidParker]

Why are you waiting for someone else to do an analysis you can do yourself?

[DavidParker]

Stop jumping at straws. That second post was made after you voted for me and there was a vote count showing you had only 1 vote. It didn't register that your self-vote had changed and you had gone from 2 votes to one vote. You are by far the scummiest thing walking and maybe a gut-scum read is the only reasoning I can see for Toon Fighter voting me over you. (And maybe a bit of an OMGUS for me tunneling him for so long)

I don't think it's really in town's interests to have both Toon Fighter and Adrien go into LYLO. Adrien has been on the chopping board and just missing it for ages.

@Toon Fighter: Why does that make CHevre/Asaclardy town!??!?!!?!?!??!!??!?!?!?!?!?! This is more of Adrien's terrible logic you are falling for. We are probably NOT in lylo. Why would a scum quick hammer? That's just setting them up to lose the next day. If chevre/asa are scum they shouldn't hammer Adriend even when he was on 2 votes because there is still another day 2 come, and a quick hammer looks scummy. So regardless of me not realizing he was on 2 votes because of his self-vote, the fact he thought someone would quick-hammer him (chevre/toon/asa) if they were scum is bad logic because scum have no need to quick hammer.

[DavidParker]

You did a trick to see who is scum??? Please, stop tooting your own horn. You did no such thing. Your "trick" was more anti-town because of your self-vote and huge AtE than a pro-town as a means of scum hunting. That wasn't scum hunting at all.

As for your second request, even if I am lynched today, I don't want that to mean you get lynched tomorrow, since the likes of Toon Fighter has just come in once again with no input and as scummy as ever. I'd say you'd probably both be left alive and the lynch would be between you two tomorrow. If Chevre or Asa is scum right now there's little town can do probably.

Also, you want to talk about "scum slips". How about this scum slip:

One-shot vig? Nah, I think scumbag killing another scumbag is more like it.

I'm just about to head off to work, so if you haven't figured it out by the time I get home, I'll hold your hand and explain it

[DavidParker]

But we have 3 dead red scum, and 2 dead blue scum.

Ie: There is one remaining scum who is on the blue team.

If I am a red scum, then there is 2 remaining blue scum, and 3/5 players left are scum, and well, I don't see that happening, for balance reasons alone, considering we had a SK as well.

Something just occurred to me that I want to go re-read btw.

[DavidParker]

OK, I had to put everything together and I have a theory: SlySly is a serial killer.

On night 1, there were only two kills because two anti-town factions both selected to kill EGL or SSBF, or one targetted Battle Mage but he was jailkept. I'm thinking a scumteam and SK-Karma targetted EGL.

On night 2, there were three kills, the only night to have three so far, showing that there are three killing roles, but we've only found two: the two scumteams.

On night 3, there were only two kills. Karma being SK makes sense because he was inactive during night three, and therefore he did not submit his kill.

On night 4, there was only one. Every anti-town faction would likely want to kill a power role, and they all chose CJMiller.

But the real problem is in SlySly's JOAT claim:

His night 1 target could be perfectly truthful, and makes a great start to the fake JOAT claim.

Night 2 is a very safe action claim. He says he targetted kunkstar7, who is still alive, but got redirected and got an innocent result on tubby216, who is dead and...innocent.

Night 3 is also safe: everyone knew karma was inactive.

Night 4, however, is the worst. SlySly said he targetted Asaclardy, but was redirected to CJMiller. If CJMiller was the only death, and q21 didn't jailkeep, then it is likely that both scumteams tried to kill CJMiller. This leads me to a few questions:

Why would a town redirector redirect SlySly, who was considered to be one of the most town people in the game?
If scum thought SlySly was a doctor, why would a scum redirector redirect him onto CJMiller, their likely target?
If scum thought SlySly was a vig, why would a scum redirector redirect him onto CJMiller, their likely target, and not another town-looking person?
And the biggest question of all, Why would a scum redirector redirect SlySly in the first place, when there are three claimed power roles, one of which being a jailkeeper who could possibly block their kill?

SlySly's claim does not make sense in the least. My vote is staying firm.

Found it! I remember someone accusing SlySly of being a SK, and was wondering if they were still alive...

Now, at the time it striked me as a ridiculous speculation that wasn't even necessary. SlySly seemed more likely to be scum than SK to me. The claim he might be a SK was kind of out-landish. When it came true I was even more surprised someone had figured it out...

Now, looking back, he was a bulletproof-SK. SK's are often bulletproof or able to survive 1 or 2 night attacks for balance reasons, ESPECIALLY in a large game.

Now, who would be aware of a player surviving a night kill? Well, scum of course. A number of nights early on there was only 2 night kills, when we have 2 mafia factions + SK. Now, if scum had targetted SlySly that would explain the lack of a kill. (The one night there was 3 night kills early on was when I used my vig ability on silverbullet, so there must have been a cross-kill as well or another attack on SlySly). So, if a player survives a night kill or even multiple night kills, scum would have good reason to think he is a SK. Especially when we had a 3-4 PR claims (none of which were doctor, and the one doctor claim ended up being a VT) and the PR's hadn't targetted him (ie: jailkeeper didn't protect slysly). So how did Chevre come to the conclusion he was a SK and not scum???

Well, because Chevre is scum and targetted SlySly for a nightkill (or two) and failed. He hadn't been protected by the jailkeeper, the claimed doctor, wasn't a doctor, and with all the PR's flying around the chance of there being an actual doctor was unlikely. So Chevre had information to make him believe we had a SK.


To me, I think this is a scum slip. Now, the question remains does this scum slip outweight Adrien's general scumminess!

[DavidParker]

Actually, time to go with my gut -

Vote: Chevre

All he has done for days is post updated vote counts with some coloring in. He has actively lurked for days, and it hasn't bothered me simply because we have had scummier players to worry about. But with 5 alive, I don't think we should ignore him any more.

[DavidParker]

Ask yourself, how could a VT come to the conclusion that SlySly was a SK??? It made more sense and was more likely he was scum than a SK.

However, scum would maybe think he was a SK if they had attempted a night kill on him and failed. As shown, by there not being 3 night kills except once (When I am claiming to have used my 1 shot vig ability), there has been either cross kills OR the bulletproof SK was targetted. If the blue team scum (Chevre) targetted SlySly they would know he is bulletproof or somehow night kill resistant and likely a SK.

Chevre is the best lynch for today based on the facts at hand. Regardless of how scummy I think you are Adrien, I am quite confident Chevre is scum now.

[DavidParker]

@Asaclardy: Where is your promised iSO?!?!

[DavidParker]

Bah! GO TOWN!

[DavidParker]

Before saying anything else.

4 ppl alive... and you guys DONT want a no lynch!?!?!

3 ppl alive, and you guys dont stop to reconsider!?!?

[DavidParker]

GJ wicked!

[DavidParker]

I was never certain about anything :/
Just had a strong read on you.

I almost chose toon fighter over you, but then changed my mind halfway through night phase. I'm just sad no one ever listened to me

[DavidParker]

http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/me8tnk4L2XfH - Red QT

No hard feelings if I tunneled on you.

Town MVP: DP
Red MVP: kunkstar7
Blue MVP - foilist13
Town LVP - Toon Fighter

[DavidParker]

asa was my only town read lol.