A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Shadow1psc]

Choose: Hascow

VOTE: MoI

Phone posting, there isn't a proper tag for choosing is there?

[Shadow1psc]

This thread -

[Shadow1psc]

The time you took finding this picture could've been used for catching up.

Who said I wasn't? Who says I don't have a handy cataloged reaction image folder (who doesn't?!)

Pro-tip: I wasn't catching up.

[Shadow1psc]

Pro-tip: I wasn't catching up.

Haven't had time to sit down and read this game. There's walls abound and it's not my lunch time yet. I will be more than happy to make snarky in-the-moment commentary though.

[Shadow1psc]

So do you want to treat it like a policy lynch or a regular one?

VOTE: Benmage.

Doesn't matter.

It matters to me and I'd say it matters to everyone else since everyone is talking about it. Strangely enough, nobody picked on your noncommittal stance on the subject. You basically said you're 'ok' with both using it as a regular lynch to catch scum AND using it to lynch a policy lynch target; those two things don't match. So, again, which is it?

Well, I agree that we should use it as a regular lynch and send someone suspicious to kill Jon Snow.

I actually will comment on this - I was following the thread last night until about the point where people jumped on Feysal's junk, but I was of the opinion that our choice was basically a second lynch. Now anyone saying "Well, let's use it on someone suspicious", if they're suspicious (you think they're scum) and you've succeeded with catching scum even (unlikely IMO), scum is going to shoot whoever the hell they want, not who we (the collective town majority opinion) wants to shoot.

[Shadow1psc]

I'm not sure I'm following you. You're saying that you agree that we should use it as a second lynch, but you also want to have control over who the chosen person will vig?

No, I'm saying if we're using it as a second lynch (smart), we can't expect to control who the extra kill is. We could certainly wish for it, and it's likely it'll be a mislynch (just based on past experience), but it's likely then that a directed kill will also be a failed attempt to hit scum, so I say we use it as a regular lynch and just don't try to direct it.

[Shadow1psc]

I dont see the slip...

[Shadow1psc]

In other news I actually think BB is town.

[Shadow1psc]

Sorry Molla that was terrible

I knew it would fail when Snowstorm didn't post anything I could remotely turn into a scumslip.

Shadow thinks I'm town because I caught his scum ass

I actually think this based on the previous game we played together.

[Shadow1psc]

post 212
-Cow: I've played with cow a lot.. I think I can read him. His opener read as eager aggressive town. The continuation of the tone of his post re-enforce this initial read.
-Plessiearrus: This post is a town post: post 108 ... the continual posting reads town as well. He giving early reads and questioning people. Town.
-Starbuck: Her opening mindset was aligned with my own. Her defeatist self choose and essential VT claim screamed of town. Scum wouldn't yield so quickly. SB isn't the one to try and skillfully manipulate such a situation. She is genuinely town.
-BBmolla: Everything reads pretty standard town. Gonna have to go with gut mostly here on how I read him.
-Snow: Noobtown read for the moment.


-Plum: To easy a vote on SB. Just seems to comment on nothing... Its like fluff posting that scum can talk about things that don't really matter. Talking about vig targets, PL..agree with me 1-1 trade is good (duh). Although, Plum can often be verbose... The cow sheeping comment reads town to me. So Plum isn't someone I'd consider lynching atm.

-Shadoweh entered the game too cutesy.... I've seen scum not sure how to enter games and therefore enter trying to be cute or funny... Again... not really the strongest read here, because I don't give shadoweh the player much credit.

I'm not shadoweh.

[Shadow1psc]

We're not lynching Hydrina or choosing them today.

[Shadow1psc]

"4) When the game has been open twenty-four hours, it's too early to base Choose or suggested vig targets based on who's not getting lynched today. (For example, I'd wager there's a very low chance that Minimum will actually get lynched today although it'll involve me failing my French test on Thursday--I start off a bit awkward sometimes, but my alignment generally shines through once I get into the game.)"

Basically this.

[Shadow1psc]

You know, this would hold a lot more weight if
a) You gave a reason.
and b) If you have actually contributed fuck to this game.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I needed to spell every-fucking-thing out for you. Should I get an interpreter to point you to the

very next fucking post I made?

[Shadow1psc]

Do you have a mouse in your pocket? Because that’s the only way you making a “we” statement makes any sense or has any credibility.

I've got something in my front pocket for you

[Shadow1psc]

Yup Shadow1 is scum also.

Oh no, you've caught me.

[Shadow1psc]

I hated how he come right in and started defending Feynal...reeks of scumbuddies...

Because scum buddies are going to white knight on day one, less than 24 hours in to said day.

Too much of this game is being taken too seriously too quickly.

[Shadow1psc]

Please, by all means, go on believing that makes her look town or whatever, but like Tammy said (I think?), there is not one thing that can be used as alignment indicative.

Just ftr, sucking on Day1 is not a reason for you not being lynched.

Neither is having a meta of acting scummy.

But tell me, what was your read on them before that?

Because unless you seeked council from the oracle of delphi, I really don't see how that post could've at all changed your thought at all...

Then you either didn't read it, or you've never played with Mina. Simple as that.

[Shadow1psc]

2. for his nice scummy post (I am so scummy, so of course I am not scum)

Because scum deliberately act scummy

[Shadow1psc]

That not but the defence of "I am so scummy, I can't be scum" is still worst.
So beeing unhelpful und checky is now a towntell?
Shadow try another explanation?

How about the explanation of, the game isn't even 3 (real) days old and people are trying to actually use limited amount of interaction in a 28 player game to pinpoint behavior as either 'scummy' or 'town', as if the game has been going on for weeks, or some mystical mindset is able to actually tell you I am scum, much in the way I've been called out for calling Mina town (which I never actually said she was, just that she shouldn't be lynched because Mina is easy to read in later days).

I haven't even properly read the whole thread, I just find it amusing that we have MoI and others trying to throw their weight around so early when no one knows jack shit for any reason on day one. Deal with it.

[Shadow1psc]

Oh, and don't confuse my attitude or posting style as a 'lack of trying' or even the more laugh worthy notion of 'lack of contributing', because there's nothing to contribute except relational tells for a later analysis if needed, and simply by actively posting and commenting, I'm still doing that. You can call my posting fluffy and I'll concede it, but I don't have much to say because I don't pretend to be able to nail scum, or even town at all day one, much less 2 days into play where the majority of people playing just look like town members hemming and hawing, trying to puff up their chests and look important. Do I have opinions? Yes. Can they be gathered from what I've posted? Most certainly. I have a town read on BBMolla, and I don't think Minamum should be lynched. I've contributed to the discussion on the matter of how to use our Choose ability, and I've seen no reason to comment on much else.

Mountains out of molehills people, this is what I'm talking about when I say people are trying to do too much after too little has happened, let alone the fact we're in a 28 player game.

[Shadow1psc]

Preview: I am trying to deal with you, Shadow. But I am afraid that isn't what you wanted.
So your defence is you are usless because it is so early in the game, so you have to be usless? When do you start to play?

I'm saying I've started playing, what I'm arguing is peoples' contrived notion of 'contributing'. I'm not going to give person by person block wall list reads when I don't have them. I have gathered as many opinions as I probably should have in a game that has been going on for less than 72 hours. I'm not going to make a huge deal out of every minor interaction because we have too many big names leading people around. What I can start doing after a number of flips and untold night actions is start reviewing the interactions people have with each other. We come in to day 2 with (I'm assuming here, only 2 scum teams and no independent faction) no less than 5 flipped people.

That's

where you can start doing real work.

How many times have you (or anyone else) sat around day 1, been called scummy for stupid posts that literally mean nothing to the game in the long run, and just laugh because you have a town PM? Don't pretend your sordid opinions mean anything in relation to factual events happening right now, if you want to policy lynch me because I'm keeping it light for now, go ahead and keep pushing it, I really don't care

[Shadow1psc]

Very much disagree with Shadow1psc that "too little has happened" on 17 pages that are very non-spammy, and not entirely sure why he's pushing that notion.

I'm not arguing that little has happened, but I am saying it's so early in both the day and the game that people are making inane giant posts and getting ruffled up over things that, I'm willing to bet, come sun up day 2, no one will have been right about a single person. It's my experience in these large theme games that that is consistently the case, and no one is particularly scummy for pushing these mislynches that happened over inane details and supposed 'slips', and everyone just moves on, as will happen here. Call me jaded maybe, but why am I going to get flustered over everything now? Today's biggest 'cases' (and I say this with disdain because no one has a case on anyone, let's just set that straight now) I think are all simply town. Feysal is probably not scum. Mina is probably not scum, but if she is we'll certainly know about it sooner rather than later. Salamence we will

for sure

know about given a few more days (real days, not game days).

Obviously we still have to choose/lynch someone, though I'm willing to bet the target will change plenty of times before day is over, and I'm not hip to any of the current targets.

[Shadow1psc]

It's all well and good to say that but if some of us didn't take it seriously the game would never progress to the point where people can get reads and have 'for serious' cases. (as far as I'm concerned it's been long enough, a few days and 17 pages should be more then enough to find scum)

If it were that easy, why, town would never lose. I'm trying to get the simple notion across that too many people are preaching their scum hunting as the word of god and that nothing of real consequence has happened

yet

that doesn't come in the form of relational tells as data the be analyzed on a later game day. That's what day one is, 90% of the time. I'm not arguing that people shouldn't talk, and if I thought that I simply wouldn't post or talk about things ever day one, and I do believe solid town reads can be gained in situations like this, but quite often the people 'acting scummy' day one are simply pushed and the real scum lay back and let it happen, and that's where you start finding your real data, inside the people who aren't making

any

noise. Yes, this sounds very much like 'just lynch lurkers day 1', though I think my point is a little more elaborate, maybe something closer to 'lynch the people who don't stick out'.

Crummy argument? Maybe, but I then invite you to point me to a game where you successfully nailed scum day 1 and got them lynched day 1 using solid evidence.

[Shadow1psc]

Call me jaded maybe

Faraday this is your fault.

@Shadow1psc:

Why are you arguing for the defusing of discussion and wagons in general?

Gun to the head, snap decision: who would you vig if you were chosen?

I can point you to Weather Mafia II where I got BBmolla-scum lynched D1 with decent pieces of evidence (why do you care if the evidence is 'right' when lynching scum, anyway? People make too much noise out of cases, and there's little point in giving your scumread ammunition against you). It happens, and it's not that rare.

There are several players who are focusing quite a bit on townreads over scumreads. See Regfan. See myself. You're making general arguments instead of pointing concrete fingers and it's quite slippery. Who is doing this messy D1 thing that you so abhor?

I'm having a general discussion, but I've pointed out that in between all this mess I can at least see one town read and two people who I don't want to see lynched because they're easier reads (and as of now don't look scum to me). Snap decision, I vig someone like MoI, or hascow. Not for any reason other than they've burned me as scum before and I know they're crafty as hell. I have no solid scum reads on anyone, and my posts are simply explaining why, and why I'm posting the way I am. Nothing more, nothing less.

Plus side? It's generating a discussion that I can actually be interested in. All the crap surrounding Feysal? Arbitrary BS (that's my stance on it, if no one got that from all my recent posting). People pushing Mina? Started as BS, and Mina's post sealed my read on the situation. Do I think the people making the fuss out of those situations are scum? Not really, town tend to make the most noise day one. I am just of the belief as a player that scum would just as well sit back and do nothing if everything is going in their favor.

Make no mistake, I'm not arguing for the diffusion of discussion, in fact, I'm participating in the opposite if you haven't noticed. I like to make noise as much as the next person, I just don't bother to do it when people like MoI are spearheading the discussion because I know as a player he has a one track mind when gets an idea. I get more out of being short and quippy (not a word) and gauging responses, because I get attacked for that

every

game, scum or not (see Storm of Swords if you weren't in it, it might as well have been my first real game here). This is no real change of how I play in any game as any side, and I continue to make the argument that a lack of scumhunting 24 hours into the game is not a legitimate thing one can argue about.

I'll concede that getting scum lynched day one happens, but you just proved my point; People make too much noise over cases, or 'this person is scummy because town wouldn't do that' type of BS. I'd rather look at relational tells, explanations, arguments and logic under pressure, but I'm simply bothered by the rabble of day one, and people wanted to know why, so I've done my best to explain it here.

[Shadow1psc]

You should stop assuming stupid = scum, btw. The way your Salamence read progressed was a clear sign of that. (And yet, it was a clear BBtown, so that was nice.)

I will be delighted to comment on this as well at a later date.

[Shadow1psc]

I make no claims to change it or force everyone to change their play style, I'm merely explaining my own for the people calling me scum, and at the same time creating a discussion they can either accept me for, ignore, or outright call 'wrong', and any other number of situations where I can derive motive, or what you called 'concrete aspects'. People felt like I wasn't saying or contributing enough, so that's where this started.

[Shadow1psc]

Regfan, you didn't post a lot in Chrono Trigger Mafia, correct?

[Shadow1psc]

Regfan, you didn't post a lot in Chrono Trigger Mafia, correct?

Content wise? Majority of it, anything that was more than 2-3 lines long was mine but post number wise I was only about 1/4th of it.

Yeah, you and Farady are pretty polarizing. I find myself agreeing with you, that last post especially, but there was something I didn't like about your posting in a different game... Good Vs. Evil maybe. Were you town there? I seem to recall thinking you were scum in some game for posting too... nice I guess would be the word? But I ended up wrong. Can you point me to a scum game of yours?

[Shadow1psc]

Okay two things. Do you actually believe that Mina is so easy to read? Because I'm not sure where you're going with this. Mina is fairly readable, but she can play a decent scum game when she wants to. But you're acting like Mina fumbles along like an idiot when she's scum spilling so many scum tells it'll be obvious. If that were true, Plessiezarus wouldn't have added that they *think* they would have a better read of minimum if Mina started posting.

Second - I remember you in GvE having a couple of scum reads on day one. CooLDog especially, so I'm trying to figure out why you keep preaching that there's nothing to know.

Point A) I think Mina is pretty easy to read. Maybe I'm biased towards you girls who seem to wear that towny town town vibe like it's the latest perfume, but I could say the exact same about you, though for different reasons.

Point B) I called cooldog out as scum from like, post one, but I didn't get him lynched, no one listened to me despite the fact that I continuously posted and pointed out all the scummy things that I found, and not a single person really agreed with me all game. It reinforces the point I've actually mentioned as scum a couple times, but truly mean when I say my voice tends to have no weight in these games in the early days, so I've become content to sit back and just let things happen (see: every ASoIaF game, GvE, Chrono Trigger). I can comment more on this when another game finishes as well.

[Shadow1psc]

I buy Shadow's stance on me, and it makes me sad to turn on him when he's the only one white-knighting me (I could appreciate some buddying right now), but I find Shadow's early play here more similar to AFFC (where he was contrarian and petty in a conscious effort to mimic his town meta) than to ASoS and GvE (where he got tetchy at points, but was full of adorable protown eagerness). My scumread of him waned somewhat when he discussed his beliefs about D1 theory, but those could be genuine regardless of alignment.

I also don't remember him being a hardline anti-D1 contributor before.

That said, I'm willing to give him some time to see if he delivers on his promise to contribute later. Shadow's alignment will become apparent with time.

See previous post, but GvE, AFfC and Chrono Trigger (especially CT) have all really reinforced my stance here that I can try and be useful, but I may as well just be funny because my reads are dismissed (and rightly so, I'm not always right), though I think the bigger point to make here is I believe my play doesn't change because every game I've been in as scum as multiball, and I just genuinely scum hunt the other team. In CT I couldn't even talk to my own scum team, and for awhile I just didn't know who they were because there were so many people and replacements, and everyone just seemed to randomly turbo-mislynch. All of my 'shock' and 'outrage' was natural because it was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen happen.

[Shadow1psc]

@MoI

– perhaps if I feel motivated I’ll respond to your recent posts explaining your motivations in self-Choosing. No promises thought as your opinion of me and my play doesn’t really matter much to me personally and I don’t think it will serve much use to others in thread.

[Shadow1psc]

Also Shadow, it’s kind of funny that you include AFFC in your list of past games where you tried to be helpful (Post 473 because you were super-scum there. Too bad the tigers ate most of that game because then the newer people could go check it out to get a good helping of Scum-Shadow (and MoI too, for that matter).

See previous post, but GvE, AFfC and Chrono Trigger (especially CT) have all really reinforced my stance here that I can try and be useful, but I may as well just be funny because my reads are dismissed (and rightly so, I'm not always right), though I think the bigger point to make here is I believe my play doesn't change because every game I've been in as scum as multiball, and I just genuinely scum hunt the other team. In CT I couldn't even talk to my own scum team, and for awhile I just didn't know who they were because there were so many people and replacements, and everyone just seemed to randomly turbo-mislynch. All of my 'shock' and 'outrage' was natural because it was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen happen.

[Shadow1psc]

Point being, if you read CT, I was scum in multiball. I legitimately thought JustinTimberlake (faraday/regfan) were scum. Like, all game. AFfC I don't remember well enough to point to a specific example, and as you said, it was eaten. My interaction at the start of the game (where I pointed at Zoraster for potentially slipping a buddy) is something I would have naturally done as scum or town, and people jumped on that like it was the scummiest thing since scum came to scum town (which I still don't understand).

I'm just misunderstood

[Shadow1psc]

Shadow - Currently posting scores and scores of bullshit, and is focused mainly on defending himself and instead of scumhunting, insists that he always scumhunts when he's scum in multiball. Which is pretty fucking scummy not only because he's trying to confirm he's town through self meta, but he's trying to say that he's only a non-contributor when he's town, which is lies and lies and lies.

Your reading comprehension is off the charts terrible.

[Shadow1psc]

Snap decision, I vig someone like MoI, or hascow. Not for any reason other than they've burned me as scum before and I know they're crafty as hell.

[Shadow1psc]

(I think it's somewhat disingenuous of Tammy to claim that we weren't in serious danger, particularly because of a bunch of people who replaced out AFTER that post and who, if anything, would make the game stagnate more--fine, not GUARANTEED to be lynched, just really, really, really fucking likely to get lynched? I was more worried about the wagon than I was letting on, but thought people would eventually just see I was town--or at least, more likely to be town than scum--and move onto actual substantial cases because the original premise of the wagon was so silly and flimsy.)

Welcome to day 1. I like swords.

[Shadow1psc]

the scum motivation is that he's trying to avoid notice. He said himself that "posting alot makes me scummy," so he knows that if he stays in the background, he won't attract as much suspicion.

Serious question, not like, sarcasm or mockery ala my previous posts, but have you played with Salamence before?

[Shadow1psc]

Mina, I'm not so afraid of a shitty vig shot if shadow is chosen to be the assassin. After he's chosen and before the lynch is reached, he will have plenty of players giving him advice on who to shoot, and I'm sure he will not stubbornly shoot Cow or MoI if we yell at him not to. Luckily it doesn't matter cuz he's scum, so.

I'm gonna go ahead and comment on this, but I'll say two things;

1) I'm not being chosen or lynched today.

2) Even if I was, with an unblockable vig shot, I would shoot one of the two of those players regardless of what anyone else said in thread.

[Shadow1psc]

Nope....

Ok, I'll get back to you on this later. Probably sooner rather than later.

[Shadow1psc]

I'd bet my end of day list is more than 80% accurate.

In 28 players?

In other news, Benmage is town.

[Shadow1psc]

Shadow’s latest I’ll shoot who I want is simply a very light Appeal To Fear for those who read either Cow or I as Town and should not be any reason to adjust Choosing him.

That is the most hilariously bullshit statement I've seen you make.

[Shadow1psc]

But MoI we can make his appeal to fear go out in flame, we just have to lynch him instead of sending him to the wall.
Shadow: Your post were this was a boost and could be read as if you choose me, I will do what I want, not interesting in what the majority wants.
So your reaction is over the top.

See, if you wanted to claim that, you would have looked at point #1 closer. Point #2 is simply my honest answer (and is somewhat linked to the more important part of the post).

[Shadow1psc]

(I think it's somewhat disingenuous of Tammy to claim that we weren't in serious danger, particularly because of a bunch of people who replaced out AFTER that post and who, if anything, would make the game stagnate more--fine, not GUARANTEED to be lynched, just really, really, really fucking likely to get lynched? I was more worried about the wagon than I was letting on, but thought people would eventually just see I was town--or at least, more likely to be town than scum--and move onto actual substantial cases because the original premise of the wagon was so silly and flimsy.)

Welcome to day 1. I like swords.

Do you have a point you'd like to make here.

On another note: Delorous Edd - this is what sniping from the sidelines looks like.

My point, obviously, was that I like swords.

[Shadow1psc]

Cow what do you think of the scum logic in a posting style like the ones you quoted here: post 382

The first post I quoted there is him claiming scum, and as already mentioned, that's one of my policy votes when I see it.

Secondly, "too much is being taken too seriously" is a way for scum to say "don't pay attention to what I do early because it's unimportant". Basically, his scum logic is play "too scummy to be scum".

Nice way to twist words, where did I ever say what I do isn't important? Nor did I call myself too scummy to be scum, I merely pointed out that scum don't tend to intentionally act scummy. Seems redundant. Your entire argument is based around a huge discussion you never really responded to. You've contributed less than I have, by and large to the current discussions for that matter. Just because I'm loud and in your face, y u hatin ; ;

[Shadow1psc]

I've contributed less because there's too much talking for me to contribute to.

Oh, but the second I go on a long winded rant about why I don't contribute as much and I'm scum. Good catch

[Shadow1psc]

God, I can finally link this; http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22064

Read Salamence. Enjoy our free lynch. UNVOTE: VOTE: Salamence

[Shadow1psc]

God, I can finally link this; http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22064

Read Salamence. Enjoy our free lynch. UNVOTE: VOTE: Salamence

Seriously Shadow? Have you been just trolling around waiting for that game to finish so you could link it and call for a policy lynch? Do you have any actual scum reads?

If this were a policy lynch why would I need evidence from an in progress game (hint: in

that

game we already went down the road of exploring Sala's town meta). In other news, are you going to stop being scummy?

[Shadow1psc]

Spoiler: Sala's Catchup

But seriously - we have a large theme with 28 players, prequels most of which had two scum teams, and even in the few snippets of flavor we've seen there have been references to multiple threats. Of course I expect this to be multiball

Sorry, I'm not that into the flavor.

But even if some of the games of the same series, blah blah blah, you can't really expect anyone to use the word multiball without knowing much. No one knows if the game is truly multiball or not, but mentioning it could be scum with knowledge of other intruders of the castle.

I chose to vote Sally over the rest because it has already been stated that it said nowhere that there are defiantely more than one scumteam and this looked like a sleazy hop onto an easy bandwagon. BBMolla's jump on Feysal wasnt any better.

Every day, it seems like I'm being told that bandwagoning is scummy, and that bandwagoning is town.

We'll see.

Choosing should be policy lynch central since I can easily imagine choosing scum and giving that scumbag a strongman vig being worse for the town than taking out 2 townies that would otherwise get mislynched or screw up in some other way.

Ahh you are correct...

FYI the assassin thing is only a D1 event like thing. Nailing scum is still best as it equates to a 1-1 trade off... i.e. always good for town.

But I'm sure a viable PL target will showthemselves eventually to be chosen.

So do you want to treat it like a policy lynch or a regular one?

VOTE: Benmage.

Doesn't matter.

But there is a difference between the two, right???

Im a little too drunk to post.... I blame faraday.. i wish mina wasnt scum.

Then vote him

I disagree that this should be used as a second scum lynch and if that makes me scum in everyone's eyes so be it.

Do you think MoI is possible scum for self-choosing?

I think it should be the hands of a VT. A townie who has nothing to lose, but would still follow the wishes of the majority.

If it ends up in scum hands, we won't know where it lands.

I didn't want to claim this early, but I'm choosing myself because I know that I am town and that I have nothing to lose.

Take this from a guy that played day-vig, even if you are a VT and you sacrifice yourself for the cause, chances of you hitting scum are less than that compared to you hitting town.

Salamance scum - that jump on the feysal wagon was horrendous: he chooses him instead of voting him, he smacks on RVS-esque commentary and then asks something that was already asked (with multiple question marks, mind you).
Starbuck scum - mostly what was already said. The initial I-thought-about-it-but-really-didn't about the Chooses, followed by more of that, followed by not reading the argument closely at all.

So I'm taking you don't buy the starbuck VT claim?

So why are you voting me? Because of what I said or because of me jumping on the bandwagon?

This is why.
BBmolla admitted that his vote is sheeping and only sheeping. He didn't try to pull any fancy "BUT WHAT IF I MISSED SOMETHING????????/?" Granted, he's not town for it, but I'm not assigning him any scumpoints, either.
Dolorous Edd is just... wrong. He was the first to point it, when there were no actual votes on Feysal.

So explain to me why sheeping is less scummy than my post.

This thread -

This is fluff and you should feel bad.

If for some reason people don’t see the wisdom of sending me I will happily send MOS as a policy Choice.

So MoI, why do you want to die? I don't see the scum motivation, no, but I don't see MoI's motivation to do so, what makes you think (if you are town) that you will hit scum?

Overall, why are you the best choice vs anyone else?

Unvote, vote: Salamence20

Hi CES, I'm happy to see you.

Where did your vote come from, I don't remember you mentioning me in any of your posts.

VOTE: Snowstorm

LOL

Nice scumslip

LOL

GREATEST. REACTION. TEST. EVER.

What were you trying to accomplish?

You guys are terrible at continuing reaction tests.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Salamence

Better vote.

Again, what were you trying to accomplish, and why am I the better vote.

And yes I am voting him because Staeg asked why I'm not voting him, I ISO'd him, noticed he's not town, realized he's scum

So your sheeping? Cool.

Why is Sala obv-scum? Explain it to me.

Sala would like to know this as well?

Just target him with whatever your ability is please, I want to get that guilty and laugh in your face

Of course you would want me to be guity, wouldn't you, BB? sorry to inform you, but I am not.

Sorry, you should have stipulated that in the first place. I honestly can't say for certain without an actual flip to work with. Gut says probably someone active-lurking (like Shadow1spc) or someone who should NOT make it to endgame like Sala or MOS since it is the first 24 hours of the thread.

But MoI...

I haven't done anything yet.

MoI do you think I'm scum

You still haven't put a reason on why I am scum, quit dodging the question.

If there is anything else important that I miss, please do tell.

Meanwhile, I'll be waiting for BB's reasoning of Sal obvscum.

Salamence we will

for sure

know about given a few more days (real days, not game days).

I don't like this statement, and I am sure I know why I don't like this statement.

I know what you are trying to do, you are waiting for some kind of post that is either scummy, VI, or both.

So, to sum it up, the following players should be dead come massclaim day (preferably within the next 4 days):
Salamence
Dolorous Edd
Hyperion
Shadow

I would still like starbuck to die (who STILL hasn't nameclaimed), but I'm more or less alone there.

Why should starbuck claim at all? He already claimed VT, what more is there for you to find out?

I would like to know why you want DE, Hyperion, and Shadow dead, because I am sure I know you want me dead because of my shitty LyLo play, which is more biased than actual scummyness.

-------------------------------------------------------

So anyways, lets get on to the reads.

Town:
MoI
Pandora
Tyene
Edd
Cow
Lyanna
Molla
Starbuck
Pless
Stefan
Salamence20
Regfan

Null:
Benmage
Staeg
Plum
Jal
Feysal
Pappums
SoO
MoS
Mocking
BV
RedFF
Petyr

Scum:
Minimum
Shadow
Snowstorm
Hyperion

Sala is trying too hard. Sala is most certainly the super VI fly-off-the-cuff type of player who doesn't really seem to care what other people think and as town isn't worried too much about correcting himself or looking proper, at all. #777 screams bad, and if you're not seeing the discrepancy between play styles, I can't do much for you GK.

-p-edit-
Plum, what was the point of that post?

[Shadow1psc]

Mostly to note that Greenknight's behavior is confusing me and making me wonder what's up with him and if that says anything about the wagons (answer: quite possibly, but not something I can tell with current info).

So why not say that instead of rewording what happened like, one post ago?

[Shadow1psc]

All he's doing is basically prod-dodging and responding to votes with "I disagree".

That's a pretty terrible way to put that, I like the level of effort SnowStorm is putting in and it seems genuine. You more accurately described Hascow than you've described Snowstorm here.

[Shadow1psc]

I don't know that I've seen town benmage exasperated at the amount of content in a game before.

[Shadow1psc]

I don't know that I've seen town benmage exasperated at the amount of content in a game before.

Link exasperated scumBenmage please.

I don't know that I've played as scum with you. Just seems like a bitch move. That goes for everyone wimping out at the amount of content

in a 28 player game

.

[Shadow1psc]

Should be, played with you, where you are a member of a scum faction.

[Shadow1psc]

No, my point directly at you as that you haven't taken the "I'm awesome don't give a shit" town benmage stance yet, and

you in particular

balking at the size of the game doesn't sit well with me.

[Shadow1psc]

I am too tired to ISO my second strongest suspicion atm, and even if after the ISO i will believe he is also scum, using CHOOSE on him would be more sensible, therefore i will do the ISO tomorrow.

"I haven't read someone, but I bet you after I do, they'll be scum!"

Top notch stuff from the guy with 5 posts all of which talk about trying to catch up.

[Shadow1psc]

Contributing day one is subjective. Consider: we've made the same number of votes this day. Just because you feel like wall posting doesn't give your posts any more weight than mine. Also, nice fishing.

[Shadow1psc]

So so so tired of Shadow doing nothing but sniping from the sidelines. Like really, I suppose according to Post 724 he's got some magnificent ~role~ he knows will keep him off the lynch/choose wagon but does that mean we have to be subjected to an entire game full of sniping/cutesy gifs/gloating type posts??? Like seriously, can we just lynch/choose him and be done with it? Please???

This shoulda been quoted in the last post*

[Shadow1psc]

Minimum has more posts than you and has posted each day this week?

[Shadow1psc]

If I live past Night 1 maybe I'll be motivated to begin caring again. Until then I'll probably prod-dodge out the day so I don't have to see all the whining in thread.

I'll just leave this here as well before you respond.

[Shadow1psc]

I'll just ignore your trying to draw parallels between the two of us since you are scum and all.

Naturally.

[Shadow1psc]

^This rings genuine.

I just spent way too long of a game in the opposite situation (me scum, sala town). This doesn't ring the same, in multiple ways. Sala don't give a fuck, about anything seemingly, and is like the hyperactive puppy that no one likes. He's trying too hard to be appeasing in this game, and posting nearly enough (but I don't know if that has to do with the amount of games he's supposedly in).

[Shadow1psc]

But he was active as fuck in KH. That hasn't really changed (and he's dead in 3 of those)

[Shadow1psc]

Oh please, and you were just going after me for being on a "useless" wagon.

Don't try to make sense of Benmage, it's futile.

[Shadow1psc]

Ladies and gentleman, Minatown.

[Shadow1psc]

Cow, I don't suppose you could explain your vote and choose...

before

replacing out, could you? It doesn't require any extra work or reading from you, just "here is why I found this scummy on page two."

Shadow, how were those posts of mine any more town than any other posts I've made this game?

Did I say they weren't?

[Shadow1psc]

Hint: I said this way long ago.

We're not lynching Hydrina or choosing them today.

[Shadow1psc]

(That said, I'm sorry if my post was what tipped you over into replacing out. I just wanted to see more of your thought process.)

Shadow...are you saying you said we shouldn't lynch Minimum because you had a strong town read on me at that point of the game?

What exactly makes you so confident that I'm town?

It's less about me being confident that you're town, but you're someone who tends to put in considerable effort when you can, and why are going to get rid of someone who is at least putting in such an effort and seems (to me) decently easy to read as the game goes on? I don't have a scum read on you, and I know CES is a goofball. Same goes for Tammy, and probably Tierce. I mentioned this earlier.

[Shadow1psc]

pedit: wanker

Bully for me.

[Shadow1psc]

You asked two different questions, and I answered them both, interestingly enough,

before

you even asked the question

1) When I said Minimum wasn't going to be lynched today:

"It's less about me being confident that you're town, but you're someone who tends to put in considerable effort when you can, and why are going to get rid of someone who is at least putting in such an effort and seems (to me) decently easy to read as the game goes on? I don't have a scum read on you, and I know CES is a goofball. Same goes for Tammy, and probably Tierce. I mentioned this earlier."

2) When I said you were Minatown:

"Shadow, how were those posts of mine any more town than any other posts I've made this game?"

- Mina

"Did I say they weren't?"

- Shadow

Please explain to me your confusion on my stance of you. I never thought you were scummy, and your most recent largeposts™ have swayed me into thinking you're more likely town than scum, therefor you're not 'null'.

[Shadow1psc]

I realize you're looking to get a read no me, but feigning ignorance just annoys me

[Shadow1psc]

Finished the ISO of Shadow1psc. Out of his 70 posts, more than 2/3 are about nothing (that's like two extra pages to read). I just hate this style.

So you can concede that more than 20 of my posts are helpful, and you still have less than 15

total

posts. By your own admission I have at least contributed more than you, smaller more insightful posts and misunderstanding of them not withstanding. Even if we were to consider every one of your posts a paragon of town excellence (which, due to your attacks on Snow, we

know

they aren't), you've still done less in this game than me

I can live with that.

[Shadow1psc]

Everyone who isn't Shadow1psc, imagine yourself telling the bolded part. What would you use in place of the word that i erased?

This is also taken so far out of context it actually hurts. This was in response to someone calling me scum, so literally your one point of merit for choosing me is a misrep at best, and scummy yourself at worst.

[Shadow1psc]

Saporerint wagon is the correct wagon.

Unchoose
Choose: Kortul

I don't have a strong read on Feysal, but I believe I have a stronger read on Kortul, and just about everyone sees him pushing nothing but easy lynch targets. We know one is more or less town, and I know I'm town, so yeah. Bvoigt could switch to the choose wagon I guess, but for now.

[Shadow1psc]

Unchoose
Choose: Kortul

[Shadow1psc]

Picking up holiday prod. Skimmed last few pages, Benmage's logic is terrible, Kortul still scummy, Mina still confused, I'll deliver a propper response when I can sit down at a pc. Lol @ Feysal wagon.

[Shadow1psc]

Seriously? Claim inc, 'cause I'm not dealing with this on a holiday weekend.

[Shadow1psc]

I'm Ramsay Bolton, torturer. I can target one person each night, and upon a successful action, not only are they roleblocked, but they're rolecopped for any active abilities. Only works if they have active abilities, so if I were to target myself, I'd be told that I was a 'Torturer'.

[Shadow1psc]

What the hell happened while I was gone?

Where did this DCLX wagon come from? I don't really understand why he's being wagoned here.

I'm a little skeptical of shadow's claim, but I'm not sure if I want to risk it Day 1. Shadow, what faction are you aligned with?

In the meantime...

Unchoose, Choose: Feysal

Unless I really don't like shadow's answers, I'm more comfortable with this choose today.

Lannister

Allia

nce

. Color emphasis mine, I don't know the exact colors Faraday used.

I'm currently trying to finish a few applications (seriously, the next person who accuses me of tactically lurking can shove it--leaving aside that I'm not that cheap as either alignment, I'm putting more effort into this game than most people are even though I didn't want to play in the first place), so there's a lot of stuff I won't respond to now.

But doing this temporarily so that no one does anything stupd:

Unvote

Unchoose

Shadow, have you ever heard of the torturer role before?

Don't have high hopes that DC will flip scum right now, but Feysal's big reads post also looked town, so I'm at a loss for options. I'm starting to think the scum are hidden among the stronger players, but I have no clue which ones.

MoS, what's the source of your confidence that DC is a bad wagon?

(By the way, PlumNacho's hop onto Shadow bugged the shit out of me. They made a huge case on bvoigt that singlehandedly started the wagon, don't ever back down from it...but then when Shadow's wagon gains momentum mostly as a counterwagon to bvoigt...without even mentioning bvoigt, they make

another

big case on Shadow, and hop over? This was when bvoigt hadn't said a single word in his defence. They don't even seem to have a moment of town "Hmm, should I switch wagons? Both of these are good," self-reflection. Just another giant case to persuade people onto Shadow.)

Never heard of it before, and I expressed my curiosity of it towards the mod in my confirm to him. It feels too swingy to me if this is multiball.

What does shadow do? Jailkeep a cop, to find out they have investigate...

Sounds like an uber scum role.

Still down to hang.

Roleblock* a target of my choice*, if I'm successful (not blocked or misdirected myself), I find out their role name, which as hinted at by the mod, is only directly correlated to their active ability. IE, if they have a passive or factional ability, but no active, I would get told that X player does not have an active role. If something were to interfere with me, I would get no result from my target. To paraphrase, again, the example given to me, if I were to target myself (myself being a different, targetable person), I would be told Shadow1psc is a Torturer. There is no indication in my role that says I would get told, for instance, that Shadow1psc is a roleblocker+rolecop, or any other specific information.

[Shadow1psc]

itt: Everything I talked about at the beginning of the thread in regards to day one play is completely true and the only relevant thing anyone has done all day.

[Shadow1psc]

Saporerint still a great lynch, and we need to lock in our choose sooo...

Unchoose:
Choose: DLCXVI

[Shadow1psc]

Think of it as actively making sure Feysal isn't chosen.

[Shadow1psc]

On a more serious note that means that i don't really believe your claim now. You posted something 2 hours later, which means that your claim post wasn't the last chance to post during the day

Seriously, you've been misrepping people all game. You either have very poor selective reading, or you're scummy scum mcscummerson. I like to start my first impressions of people as "they're probably not that dumb, they're probably scum", and work down. Ergo, if you're town, you need to read more thoroughly, or not join 28 player games.

[Shadow1psc]

Flash wagon Saporerint? No?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bvoigt

[Shadow1psc]

We have to lock a lynch, yes?

[Shadow1psc]

Can we go back to lynching Shadow instead? PLEASE!!!!

What imaginary slight have you perceived this time?

[Shadow1psc]

I feel like this is a choice between a turd sandwich and giant douche right now. For both the vote and the choose.

I have expressed, actually, that I don't like any of the wagons. But we're not no-lynching, and I buy Stefan's claim and sincerity more than anything Bvoigt has said. Vig is an easy claim etc.

[Shadow1psc]

I have expressed, actually, that I don't like any of the wagons. But we're not no-lynching, and I buy Stefan's claim and sincerity more than anything Bvoigt has said. Vig is an easy claim etc.

It's ok. We get that as scum you want to lynch a Vig.

That it doesn't make sense given that you could likely prove he was Mafia via your Role (since you could confirm bvoigts role name as Vig) should not be considered in the least ....

Or I could confirm any number of other suspicious claims because

everyone and their mother claimed today

. And yes, I think it's in town's interest if we don't have five million kills tonight.

[Shadow1psc]

Actually, this gives me an idea...

[Shadow1psc]

What can I say, I like rattling your chains MoI.

[Shadow1psc]

But in all seriousness, you make more sense than I do this early in regards to that logic, so I'll concede. Sorry Stefan,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bvoigt

[Shadow1psc]

Shadow: If you are sorry, you should perhaps chance your vote.

Or I could confirm any number of other suspicious claims because everyone and their mother claimed today. And yes, I think it's in town's interest if we don't have five million kills tonight.

Bullshit.

Why would you bother to confirm a Mason claim given that it would be wasting the Role-block element of your role? Why would you bother confirming a VT claim? The odds you block the Nightkill in either case is pretty much zero.

Now the Vig on the other hand would be a good confirm if you are 'worried' about Nightkills.

1. It confirms him as Town.
2. It makes sure he doesn't kill Town regardless of his alignment
3. It helps establish a baseline for the number of other kill sources.

The 'five million Nightkills" is funny. Good work on using over-exaggeration to hide the weakness of your argument.

[Shadow1psc]

This is me being REALLY tired this morning.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: stefan

[Shadow1psc]

Have I misunderstood how the Torturer role works? Isn't "mason" a passive ability? How could Shadow possibly confirm it?

Congratulations you found the point. Shadow1 said "everyone and their sister claimed so why would I not check them" when most of the claims don't make sense for him to check.

Unless of course they're lying... which is the point of checking... keep up here MoI.

[Shadow1psc]

Thank you.

[Shadow1psc]

Fuck. No freaking time to lynch Bvoigt. Which is rather depressing.

@Pless

- Yea, I wasn't going to be here. Then I skimmed that we were thinking about

no lynching

. Anyways, for your questions, yea forgot about you because I just kept copying and pasting and rearranging my reads. Sorry about that. You're somewhere between null and leaning scum (kind of where Shinori/Sala is).

@StefanB

-

"Can you do a bit more to point it out?"

Umm, no? But I am 99% sure he's lying.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bvoigt

[Shadow1psc]

Bvoigt is scum. Investigation returned

no active role

.

[Shadow1psc]

I was not blocked and I'm 100% sure I wasnt redirected. My result was that Bvoigt doesn't have any kind of active ability. If he was a vig, that would be active no?

I wasn't voting because I had to read that start of day vote thing, I didn't get it at first and thought our regular votes were being done by pm, now that I know it's not the case -

VOTE: bvoigt

[Shadow1psc]

I'm not sure what you're asking.

[Shadow1psc]

See if this were day one I would have simply said "I'll double you up " and it wouldn't have made sense either. So it's ok.

[Shadow1psc]

Also, what result would you get if you were roleblocked?

I covered this when I claimed. I would actually be told something different when blocked as opposed to being told my target has no active ability/role.

[Shadow1psc]

Lol Faraday

[Shadow1psc]

Bvoigt shot no one. He may have attempted though, and I find it silly if he's part of a different scum faction that he sent the kill.

[Shadow1psc]

I'm perfectly contet not to quick lynch. I hate ending day early and I have some ideas about coordinating our jail keep.

[Shadow1psc]

How much of the game have you read?

[Shadow1psc]

I misread shadows saying Staeg instead of BVO. I don't know why.

I'm fine with BVO lynch, however if Bvo flips town we look at staeg and shadows because of weird stuff i got in my pm last night.

##Vote: Bvo

So, you have information that potentially clears Bvoigt and implicates Staeg and Shadow somehow and you're just fine lynching Bvoigt in case? If that's not what you mean, what do you mean?

No I think I actually have info that potentially pegs someone as scum along with BVO. It could implicate bvo as town though but it's also something I don't fele at liberty to discuss because it could just be more beneficial to scum than town.

Why mention anything then...?

[Shadow1psc]

Kortul still scums it up, but that hilarity from Saporerint is too delicious.

Shinori, you've pretty much claimed watcher at this point, why dance around this? Why all the hoopla if you're just going to resolve to not say anything? You've painted the target on your back for no reason (we're not making the decision to jailkeep publicly, not by any stretch). The only reason I could see for this is if you want to gamble on their being a doctor (it seems the scum fear one), but I could royally screw that up anyway.

As Benmage I believe originally proposed, we should take our strongest 2-5 town reads (5 being a pool maybe too large) and everyone should privately pitch in a vote there. I think 2 makes it too narrow, and possibly easy for scum to swing it and shoot the person they all did not vote for, and five also brings about the same distinct possibility. So somewhere in 3-4 lies our answer, I believe.

[Shadow1psc]

I should clarify I have no knowledge of the composition of the scum team(s), but better safe than sorry if there's just one (there's currently no hard evidence to the contrary). I'm still wanting to assume multiball though, in which case having a pool of 3 candidates is probably fine.

[Shadow1psc]

This would flip as 'Seacore, Victarion Greyjoy member of the 'I'm fucking badass' club. and Fucking Awesome Pirate' won the game pregame. As you can see the Rolename may not always reveal the full nature of the ability.

Ability notation, (A) = Active, (P) = Passive, (F) = Factional.

Explain how this did not answer your question right away.

[Shadow1psc]

(Kortul isn't scum)

I really don't get that feeling, but this is obviously going to have to wait a couple days to resolve anyway.

As far as Jailkeep candidates, should we all try to find a majority list to agree on? As much as I think Shinori played rather ridiculously, I've seen worse and obviously he should be on the list. I'd like to put my name forward for obvious reasons.

[Shadow1psc]

Jail Shinori.

Iec claim.

Lynch Bvoigt.

End day.

Doc on Shadow.

This is bad and you should feel bad.

[Shadow1psc]

Should everyone confirm that they've sent their jail vote before we finish this lynch?

[Shadow1psc]

I've sent my jailkeep vote in.

[Shadow1psc]

Before I send mine in.. we're doing townreads aye?

Whose some list of 3-5 people have been using?

We haven't publicly posted a list. Obviously you want to protect strong town reads or claimed PRs.

[Shadow1psc]

Similar to what Magua said about me, I'm not getting scum vibes from him right away.

[Shadow1psc]

Okay, enough of this. I have caught up, but since we're lynching bvoigt anyway, there is little reason to post updated reads today, particularly town reads thanks to the jailkeep vote. Those can wait for the next phase, as can all the other matters of note that have come up today, by which I mean Shinori's claim and Saporerint's slip. I don't like either of them, for different reasons. It would have been much wiser for Shinori not to reveal anything if he was not going to reveal everything at once, now he just turned himself into a target for no reason. I don't find this suspicious though. Saporerint's slip on the other hand reeks of concern about being targeted with Shadow's ability. I can't think of any town role that would explain that concern, and their explanation was too vague to be of use. Full claim will be needed.

I did consider the relationships of some suspects. I agree that Starbuck is very unlikely to be Stannis aligned due to being attacked by redFF, however I can easily see her as partner to bvoigt, after the way bvoigt consistently defended her yesterday. At the time it was fairly safe to do, since few people suspected Starbuck at all, mostly just me and Staeg. In fact, Staeg attacking Starbuck for not name claiming and bvoigt defending her points to them not being a team. I believe Staeg to be the one that does not fit.

I'm fairly certain bvoigt will not flip Stannis aligned. This is because they should have anticipated bvoigt would be targeted by Shadow, yet they did not kill Shadow to try and give bvoigt a fighting chance. Remember that the assassination was unstoppable by any town abilities, so they could easily have gotten rid of Shadow with it. The fact they did not indicates they did not care what happened to bvoigt.

I have submitted my jailkeep vote.

Anyone else find this ridiculously lacking? Feysal going down into my pool of weak scum reads.

[Shadow1psc]

My analysis is there to be required, not to be foolishly squandered. Most of the limited time I have for mafia goes into just keeping up with this juggernaut, and an easy day like this when I don't need to analyze everything and everyone is very welcome. I'm not going to waste effort on pushing cases when the lynch of the day is already decided, or explaining town reads when it would likely give away my jailkeep choice.

I don't understand the bit of a contradiction you come yourself into between these two posts. Can you clarify?

I'm going to need you to clarify first what you mean, since I don't see any contradiction.

The problem I have with your last post is not that it was a catch up post, but something that literally, nearly word for word just said stuff other people said.

[Shadow1psc]

Well that was uneventful.