Open 561: Farmer's Market (Game Over)

[Bins]

whoops, i realize i made a few typos.

basically: if siv is scum, we should make only half the people pass. if they pass successfully, and there's a NK, we clear all of their names. if there's no NK, then we get no info, but we stall.

the current plan only stalls for 2 nights. wastes all our fruit. and honestly, it's probably not going to get us info.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Unvote

Only for a minute so we can discuss this plan.

[Formerfish]

I actually like this idea. If we lynch scum then we could have all the odd players pass fruit along. Scum would either

a. pass fruit with them, and stay hidden
b. dont pass fruit, killing, and we narrow it down to a smaller set of people
c. be one of the ones who weren't supposed to pass fruit, and makes a kill, letting us again know where to look closer at.

This could make it so that we have more nights where scum has to make a choice to kill or conform.

[Bins]

b. if scum is supposed to pass fruit and they don't, then they're fucked cause we'll know they didn't pass fruit.

[The Bulge]

My favourite part of this is the extra nights. The one major downside of the original "everyone pass" plan was the time limit. We would have had two days to safely scumhunt. As much as I've openly advocated for the original plan this whole time, if nobody finds any problems with this AND if siv flips scum, I like this plan.

[Formerfish]

Yeah, that is what I meant.

I keep circling around the idea that we are missing something here in regards to the kill. Help me work this out.

Say we do odds give fruit. 3 gives to 4, but 4 dies that night. 6 could have killed, and we won't know if 3 actually pass fruit or not because 4 died before they had a chance to tell us. What do we do then?

[The Bulge]

I could be wrong, but I understood it as

1 passes to 2
2 passes to 3
...
5 passes to 1

[Formerfish]

Ok, so you were doing half like that. I think the issue still stands, if we have 10 people and 6 kills 3, we will never know if it was 2 or 6-10 that made the kill. We would clear 1, 4, and 5 though.

[Bins]

4 would still pass to 5... 5 would pass to 6...

Scum can do a lot of fuck-y shit. Like lying. Scum always do that.

Actually... scum can screw a lot of crap up killing the pass-ers. Ugh.

[Formerfish]

It would clear a subset of people though.

[Bins]

Ugh, I don't know, if I'm scum, and I'm not a passer. I could kill a passer and just fuck up a lot of shit.

And if I'm scum, and I'm a passer. Then I could kill a passer and just fuck up a lot of shit.

And then I could just blame it on scum trying to fuck up a lot of shit.

[Formerfish]

Check it out.

11 people. Half pass, so we will round up in this case. 1>2>3>4>5>6>1

7, 8, 9, 10 do not pass.

2 dies. 3, 4, 5, 6, 1 all claim to have received fruit. That clears 3, 4, 5, and 6. Leaving 1, 7, 8, 9, 10 as suspects.

[The Bulge]

*10 people. Lynch today.

[Formerfish]

I thought we started with 12, thats my oversight.

[Aronis]

VOTE: mathbandit

This day needs to end right fucking now and I'm not lynching neil since the wagon on him is bullshit.

Also, the night strategy should absolutely be giving fruit to the person below you on the list (or on top if you're the last one). We need the information now, not later in the game, so our best strategy is indeed to get it over with on N1 and N2 and play the rest of the game mountainous but with extra information.

I will personally lead the wagon on everyone who claims to not have followed the strategy.

Also, I've got my eye on Siveure. When I started reading the thread, I had him as solidly town, until he posted this. Asking for confirmation about something that is in the scum role PM right at the front of the thread is scum behavior.

Ice is prob town. Can see the reasoning behind the Siv logic, but nobody else seemed to know, so not that indicative, imo.

Sorry, really tought time with work right now.

Ice's entry post seems fine.
No one has yet to make an actual good case on Matt.
I don't like the Neil wagon.

Maybe you have, but who's your scumreads, etc? Giving opinions on others votes is fine, but what are you thinking?

I mean....there's no deadline in the game, he places a 3rd vote on someone he gives no reason for suspecting, and avoids putting a 2nd vote (ie same as math att) on his voiced suspect (Siv) who would most assuredly regain votes that had dropped off his wagon: me, ~fish, ~bins, ~The Bulge.

Little activity is bad for town. This game has all but stalled. We need it to get going, otherwise scum can just lurk to victory.

Also, Siv is a suspect, but not high on my suspect list. I still read him as town, except for that one post that is scummy as fuck.

That post isn't great, but I just can't see it being super scummy. Ending the day without activity just allows scum to continue to lurk, etc.

[Bins]

Huh. I've given my scum reads.

ice and now siv. and i have growing suspicion for don.

not math or neil.

[Aronis]

Caught up!

Don: I'm getting fairly good vibes from him, prob town.

Fitz: He's doing enough to be considered a light town read, nothing more.

Siv: Some of his posts weren't the greatest, but I liked the math exchange. Really think he's town at this point.

Former: Pretty much just null.

Math: Superconfscum

Bins: Prob the second scum, not liking her posts. Doesn't seem like she wants to take a stance on stuff.

Ice: Maaaybe town. Some stuff of his seemed town.

[Bins]

You forgot about Bulge and Neil and I usually don't comment on reads but are you sure you read this game?

[Aronis]

So people need to get off of that wagon. Come vote math with me!

VOTE: mathbandit

Bulge is prob town. Not sure about neil.

What do you dislike about my reads?

[The Bulge]

What about myself, neil, and TSO-slot?

You town-read my top two scum reads (siv and don) and I don't like that but what can I do.

And about the Bins read... did you not read the last couple pages? She proposed a new plan. I that's not taking a stance, idk what is.

[The Bulge]

Oops. Should have previewed.

[Bins]

They're almost the exact opposite of mine, so it's natural.

Also, not scum. Have taken stance on stuff.

You quoted my post in your first review post as if that was the last post I made. Are you sure you read all my posts there, m8? Because I made the push for Ice and I've dropped it because Neil is pretty damn nice with that convincing megasupernotepost.

[Aronis]

What about myself, neil, and TSO-slot?

You town-read my top two scum reads (siv and don) and I don't like that but what can I do.

And about the Bins read... did you not read the last couple pages? She proposed a new plan. I that's not taking a stance, idk what is.

I'll try to get a more detailed reads list later, but you guys are getting ready to lynch Siv and I wanted to post something before day end at least.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Bins is the towniest towny town I think.

I am incredibly in favour of bin's plan. The slight issue is I'm not scum so you can't do it. But if we got actual scum, yeah. DO shuffle the list each night, regardless of what plan you run tbh.

I'm not actually sure I should fight this lynch tbh. 4/5 of the people who replaced in thought I looked scummy on catching up. I kinda don't want to convince everyone I'm town, hang around to lylo, have another replacement and they vote me. Eh. If the case is based a lot on interactions with don, any chance you lynch him first?

I'm also a little aggrieved SOMEONE ELSE finds me admitting I suck at dayplay suspicious? HAVE I NOT PROVEN THAT ENOUGH? I got all the votes the first time round, I defended myself with "omg I just won't defend myself" and yeah. I SUCK at playing mafia in the day. I know I suck. How is that suspicious?

Bleurgh. I had something on bulge I wanted to see if he continued but w/e. Nowhere near enough evidence to prove it's not just coincidence yet.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Oh god. That post is enormous.

*one hour later*

Um, i'm too lazy to actually go through the rest of this lol.

Spoiler:

First to start, I'm giving everyone points to access my reads. Positive points is towniness, negative is scumminess. Knowing what we know now, as I'm rereading Page 1, I'm curious. Everybody was so quick to sheep the idea of passing fruit to the person below them, I'm bound to think scum is in there. Especially before Hayato said anything.

Don_Johnson begins the post by saying basically "there must be a good idea somewhere, I just need to step back and see if I can figure it out." I don't get the benefit of posting that, and if Don_Johnson turns out to be scum, and this was a fluff / filler post, I wouldn't be surprised to see an interesting team between TSO and him. Especially with TSO's joke post of "fruit, what fruit?" Post 5 and Post 7 respectively.

Math comes up with the plan to send the fruit to the person below them. I'm basically WIFOMing here, but as scum I can see Math doing this if they speculated on the fact that two mafia were next to each other on the list. What's more likely though, is Math as town thought this would be the perfect way to break this system and find out who scum is.

So far we have TSO and Don_Johnson with -1 points. Math with 1. Everyone else 0.

The Bulge has nothing to add, but it's RVS so that's suspected. I don't like InnocentVillager adding townie points to that post, as I can't see how you can possibly attribute town or scum tells to RVS posts with no actual content. Sounds like opportunistic scum, trying to buddy by giving away free townie points. Along with InnocentVillagers town slip that I feel was faked, the idea of mafia sending fruit and killing, makes me believe that Math isn't mafia, and that the idea of being able to break the system scared scum InnocentVillager. He now has -2 points for both of the points against him. Post 9 is the post I was referring to.

Math's response to IV's attempt at discrediting the case is townie as well, stopping others form speculating on false reasoning. That's a point for Math. TSO sheeping in Post 11 is nerve-racking, but is null in general. I wouldn't attribute scum points to that. In fact I'd probably attribute town to it, because of TSO's lack of fear with that idea. Siv's following post however, makes my ears pop up. In Post 12 Siv points out that it "only gets rid of a nightkill" as if it wasn't good enough? Then he "still thinks" doing the fruit-circle on two nights is the optimal strategy. He's discussing this, like he's ALREADY discussed it before. He then sheeps a TSO vote (I'm sure for RVS reasons) which further confirms my idea that TSO could be town. The only way Siv could have talked about this before, is during the pre-game confirmation period... which would make him scum. Slip?

Well yeah. I kinda first thought about this setup previously here Also, math thought it was the perfect way to break the setup and find out who the scum are. Compared to that, JUST getting rid of two nightkills isn't great, but it's still the "best" plan (at that point). How is the grammar confusing everyone afterwards?

TSO and Don_Johnson continuing talking to each other, semi-ignoring everyone else (noted for buddying up, potential partners depending on the flip of one or the other. See posts 13-15). The Bulge again provides needless content, pointing out the over-obvious. Now I'm taking note that The Bulge is actively not contributing, while appearing to be.

In this post, Siv looks to attribute dispair to the idea of preventing two night kills at night (why is Siv actively trying to down that idea, like it's a bad thing?) and then talks about "shutting up about it" because it's "taking up space needlessly." Normally that would be a town thing to do, if there are several pages just regarding beating the set-up and it's stopping or detracting from normal town conversation. However, being as it's been less than 24 hours, and you're only on page 1, while most people haven't even contributed yet... this seems opportunistic, or almost faking it to appear town. He wasn't stopping a distraction from becoming bigger, he was appearing to. Then the whole "I have no idea how to win in the day" thing freaks me out. Isn't that the point of Mafia? Figuring out who's scum, actively pushing people during the day phases and lynching scum? If you can't win in the day, you must win at night... which at night, in this game, that'd be the scum that would be prominent. Not town. Another slip?

I'm not quite sure what I was thinking about the distraction. I didn't conceive other plans being better than compulsory fruit circle, so there wasn't really any discussion that needed to happen so I was trying to head it off before it started. Not very well, mind you.

Bleeeeeurgh. WHY IS THIS SCUMMY. IDK WHAT IM DOING AS TOWN.

Don posts with a vote on InnocentVillager, but then Siveure sheeps the vote. With my primary suspicions on Siveure, it makes it clear one or the other is scum, not both. Either IV is, or Siv is. The sheep vote for RVS is starting a wagon, and I don't like it.

Here's where Hayato finally enters the game! I don't like the sheep vote on IV either, but then Hayato makes probably the most town post of Page 1. Hayato is the only person to have brought up the idea of breaking the system actually backfiring if scum are together here. I like how Hayato doesn't shut down the idea but rather states we should "think about this some more" which is obviously referring to the obvious sheepers of the plan.

The Bulge's response to it in post 25 is townie. He explains even if that does happen, we expose that someone is lying. If they get lynched, and flip scum, we've successfully found the other scum partner by association. It's basically a 2 for 1.

I really disliked Hayato's idea (which makes me wonder if Hayato is posting without actually thinking about what Hayato was saying, which is a town-tell IMO, scum would be more careful), but although I think Hayato spoke without thinking, what I dislike more is the quick sheeping by TSO and the Bulge.

Aronis finally makes his first appearance all game, sheeping the obvious wagon from the last two posts before his, Hayato. However instead of actually addressing what Hayato said, Aronis sums up the case in a completely misrepresenting way, and justifies his vote there with the misrepped case. Look at post 35 for more information.

I'm stopping real quick at Post 36 (Bulge's post) to say an idea. What if we had opposite days? Where like Day 1 it's give a fruit to the person below you, and Day 2 it's give fruit to the person above you? Nevermind, now that I think about it the concept would be pointless because the other mafia member would do the killing and the person above them would fake claim that they received the fruit from their partner. Continuing...

I don't get the back and forth between Hayato and Aronis. I'm not sure Hayato's point there, nor am I clear why Aronis is assuming everyone would be dead after two nights of no killing. However Aronis' confusion in post 39 reads genuine to me. Townie points awarded for that.

Siv, as scum, would make a good point to try and stop this idea of breaking the setup and stopping their team two nights in a row from killing. And there it is, hidden under the blanket of "uncertainty" and random questions that really don't support anything... post 43.

So wait what? I'd make a point against the mathbandit plan in favour of hayato? I'm supporting it in #43. The only thing in favour of hayato is IF WE LYNCH SCUM which hey, bins thinks is good right now.

Argh. I didn't do the math on how scum beats either plan that hard. No real need to.

I also noticed the sort of buddying that Siv is doing with Hayato (and appears to be working) while voting on the Bulge, the easiest to wagon (in my opinion) of the people that voted on Hayato.

Easiest to wagon how? He looked scummiest? Buddying I got no real contention with.

Hayato and TSO are bouncing back opinions on strategy, which makes sense. TSO is the type of person from my Meta with him and the games I've played, TSO will vote someone out of pure frustration. Happens often actually. What's interesting to note though, is that while this is happening, Siv again buddies up to Hayate by defending Hayate. What's interesting, and I hope someone addresses this, is that Siv says the Bulge's vote was "most suspicious." Why? I wonder if Siv will go on to address this or not, or if anyone calls him out on it. (Check out post 51, just scroll up from the link below this.)

This is robbing your words. But he looked like he was trying to pretend to contribute more than he was.

Post 53 is the first place where Siv took on the idea that the plan was his too, (the entire towns) and not just a few select others in the town. Yet earlier, he pushes that Hayato's plan was good too, and voted others who didn't like that opinion (Bulge). The Bulge makes an excellent point in proving Siv's own bias and hypocriticalness in post 54, right below Siv's.

It's not because of which plan he agreed with, it's because he pushed the guy on a plan he (and the majority) disagreed with. That's not totally playstyle.

Hayate's vote on the Bulge here kind of shows Hayate getting played by Siv, and Siv's buddying is working. Meanwhile, I have no idea why scum would ever admit to a terrible play like TSO did here, so that's more townie points from my POV.

The Bulge points out the language in post 59, "furthering my plan" as for a reason for voting him, yet doesn't realize that language came from Siv. Bulge doesn't realize Siv is playing Hayate like a violin right now, neither does Hayate. However in post 60, Bulge makes an appeal to the inactive in the game, to get conversation going. Sounds like an actual town motivated post to me. You can click here to see the posts in question.

Everything about Siv's post 62 screams fake. The case on Bulge is off centered, and stretching, and the post to Hayate that he quoted is ridiculously fake. "I can't see what's wrong right now, dangitt!!!!! I totes need to go more in depth and take some more time to realize what's going on,

because I'm not actually reading.... just posting to make myself look active, while buddying up to you.

" (Emphasis and exaggeration mine.)

Ummmm... Thats about the fruit plan hayato had.

Siv and Bulge take time bickering between Siv's hypocriticalness and Bulge's confusion for why he's being voted in the first place. Aronis unvotes in the meantime. Aronis' playstyle reminds me of lazy town, who's looking to sheep the best made case. Not really like scum, trying to mislynch.

Math comes out and nails it perfectly, stupidity does not equal scum. While I think stupid was a harsh word to use for speaking before you think, it gets the point across. Check it: here. I'm not going to lie though, reading through all of this and seeing Bulge's conclusion here made me face palm.

Don_Johnson does nothing to help him appear town with this post. Voting math for no reason, yet makes it appear like the wagon is a thing. Hayato during the mean time, proves my point of Hayato sheeping Siv, and Siv actually leading the case against Bulge here.

Siv's post 80 is again buddying up to Hayato, while turning around and making a pretty pathetic case to sheep the other votes on Math. My guess is Siv saw the Don_Johnson post voting Math, and decided to go with it, in the back of Siv's mind seeing Math as the next leading wagon. And of course if you scroll down slightly, in post 82, there goes Hayato wagging his tail and following Siv.

Watch Siv's response to Hayato asking his master why Bulge is no longer scum: here. confbias? Really? There didn't appear to be any confbias there, but rather an OMGUS vote off of somebody he was buddying. In fact, an ADMITTED OMGUS vote off of somebody else.

Aronis also is confirming my point with post 86, that Aronis isn't really reading the thread. It had already been decided that we were going with the fruit plan #1 proposed by Math. Math's post on InnocentVillager at this point would be the best vote I would have agreed with. Comparitively, no other person was nearly as scummy next to Siv than Innocent Villager. Don quickly invalidates Math's post, for no reason (literally, says nothing) but to invalidate Math's opinion. (Where's the town motivation in that post, found here?

Don's scummy level is increasing rapidly. Aeronaut has still not posted and is replaced with Bins at this point. Bins makes a good post here while catching up. Hayato's sheeping is weird, but is not unprecendented when you realize Siv's manipulation and buddying up to Hayato.

Innocentvillager did a good job of explaining himself and posting back here which made me lose a lot of my suspicion on him. At this point, Marcrell and Ashura have both been replaced by Fitz and FormerFish respectively. Neither has posted, so neither really have much opinions on them.

Notice here, the distancing between Siv and "the plan" which a few posts before this Siv was all about claiming was "our plan"... here. Siv jumps back on the Bulge for no reason more than he looks weird / scummy to him, with no real reasoning.

I'm not going to lie, when Fitz came in and placed a vote on Siv, and Siv's casual "why me?" response.. I got excited. You can check that out here. My townie sense is tingling with Fitz.

Siv starts pushing TSO to wagon with him for Bulge, and when asked by Aronis why, Siv gives the most WIFOM filled answer possible. "Everything looks like it could come from scum" while not including the obvious, "everything ALSO looks like it could come from town-Bulge."

Bulge makes an OMGUS vote, though it's understandable when Siv is able to manipulate and buddy up to enough people, that they start sheeping his vote. Bulge makes a vote here, probably (my speculation) to push the gravity of the bad case against him. TSO seems genuinely interested in a case against Siv, which shows thought and consideration. That's town points for me, since I have a good understanding of Scum-TSO and that's not him.

Make note here, that Don still is doing nothing during post 122, and is the first time Don is really adressing Siv, or the idea of Siv being scum. This post screams "I don't want to buss, but I will if I have to." It's interesting that he immediately buddies up to Fitz, which if I'm correct, is the person that just called his potential scum partner out for being scummy. Good idea to get the new replacement on your side. If they think you're town and read your posts with confbias, you might get away from any suspicions.

Siv's response to Bulge's case (which was fairly good IMO based on the information revealed) is to invalidate the Bulge, and to redirect the questioning to Hayate. "Hey Bulge, is Hayate still scum?" Look Here. I bet if Bulge would have pushed Hayate as scum, Siv would have been there to back him up ASAP.

Fish's second post is on the theory of the game. First was that Fish didn't read the game yet. Fish is null at this point (Post 127). What's interesting is Siv's fake response to it. Siv pushes the idea of "woah there's another one?!?!?!" here and then

5 minutes later...

comes back and talks about it. So Siv was able to search for the game, find the game, read through the game, makes his assessment, then post it here all in... 5 minnutes? I find that rather hard to believe. Then the following post to that one, Siv again tries to invalidate Bulge by using confbias as an excuse to why his posts look scummy. Probably to Fish, who hasn't read the game yet by his own admission... another manipulation technique? (Buddying)

Bins post about her experience with the other game reading through it looks much more legit. And seeing her give that time dedication to making that assumption earned townie points for me. Also, compare her post here to Siv's "wonderful recap" of the game a few posts before it. See a difference? Perhaps one person giving more attentiveness to it? Yeah, me too...

Speaking of Siv, here Siv is trying really hard to invalidate Bulge falsly, pushing the fact that Bulge is scum... perhaps to try and invalidate the nicely made case Bulge made against Siv earlier? Then Siv completely shuts down conversation with Bulge trying to actually inquire about his case here.

The Fitz and Bins discussion on town Bulge seems genuine, they both have townie points from me. I especially liked Fish's entrance after the discussion, it looked like Fish genuinely was reading through the game. Aronis' hesitation to jump on the Siv wagon is something definitely to take notice of, here.

Bins isn't nearly as townie as Fitz is in my book yet, mostly due to a lack of posting. But she's definitely getting there, though I don't know how to view her vote on Siv here. It could easily read as bussing, should suspicion come onto Bins later. I'll definitely keep this for notes.

Siv's posts a few before this one and especially including that one, screams deflection to me. Also, Fitz, I hope you didn't forget about this post. I am not sure if Don ever answered you, but if not, this is something we definitely need to follow up on. Especially with Don's post here, screams scum trying NOT to buss their buddy. It's funny how Don asks what the case is, yet Bulge made a case that Don addressed earlier as interesting if it's true, yet never commented on it up until this point. Then asked what the case is on Siv... really Don? I can't help but think you're trying really hard not to buss your partner here.

Siv's push here screams nothing more than "hey I did a town slip! Wait no, hey wait, it's a town slip, let's not let this go! I'm going to post it again to make sure everyone sees it!" Fitz and everyone else should read this post and the following few while Siv takes personal offense to Fitz calling out Hayate for sheeping Siv everywhere. Why would this take place? Unless Siv was purposefully manipulating and buddying up to Hayate and didn't want that called out and Siv exposed. If Hayate turns on Siv, Siv could be left alone without anyone to defend him and with his partner (probably Don_Johnson) already looking like he's willing to buss him if absolutely necessary, Siv wants whatever partners he could get to defend him.

I hate the Math suspicion starting to grow on Page 10. It's off of faulty logic coming from a guy (Math) who had a different view of game theory than us. It sounds more like a new mistake than it does a purposeful scum plan. Also notice on page 11, the absolutely lack of talk concerning Siv from Don here after his repetative talk of "good case Bulge" and "what's the case on Siv" then it becomes.. nothing. No mention of Siv. In fact, it becomes a counter wagon case on Math who everyone already is starting to look at. How is this not perfect scum deflection from his partner?

Um. I'm not scum.

Siv's "come back to life" drama that was played near the end of Page 11 does not fool me one bit. More manipulation to start Page 12 with this crap while Siv is trying to use reverse psychology on those in the game. I see during Page 12, Bins has successfully been manipulated and buddied up to enough by Siv that she's now sheeping him as well. There it is! The manipulation from Siv toward Hayato, I told you it'd happen soon enough where Siv would turn against Hayato. But remember, Hayato turned against Siv first and doubted Siv, so now Siv is trying to cast suspicions on Hayato here. Rather faulty too.

Seriously? SERIOUSLY? That's a snarky defence of hayato. That's NOT suspicion of hayato.

Alright after 13 pages and seeing the inactivity / lack of effort shown by the few in this game who didn't care to give it the attention it deserved, I can completely see Fitz' town frustation here.. Although I will admit, the Bulge's post here caught me completely off guard. Where the hell did TSO come from to become your vote?

Page 14 comes along... and you have a pointless discussion about Sundays and (ironically, we're back to the same game theory discussion that Siv was so adamant against during Page 1) it's between Siv and Math! The irony! (This is not really role-related, though it is quite the coincidence... and kinda confirms that perhaps Siv said that for townie points, not actually because that was his motivation.)

Yeah... I am actually a hypocrite about that. Yeah.

Fitz, you asked how I felt about Aronis and Fish's reasonings against me here yet did not give a reason yourself for voting me. You basically said "if I can't get this lynch off, so be it. I'll go after you just because!" And that's how I took it. So maybe you can understand where I was coming from, I didn't honestly realize the game state during that moment. As far as Aronis and Fish's reasonings, Aronis hasn't been giving really any reasons to vote anyone other than lazy town answers. Sheeping people, seeing where the best direction is, etc. Fish's reasons were fighting between myself and Siv, because the way the sheeping was working, the way I see it, there has to be scum between one of us. And I agree with it to be honest. I just think because of Siv's masterful manipulation and the luck of the draw with inactivity and replacements, I think Siv has been able to wiggle out of the spot light. At least, before this post.

Now I'm at the point where Iceguy replaces innocentvillager. Iceguy has quite the task on his hands. If it wasn't for the associative pair of Don_Johnson and Siv, I'd be voting him. And damnitt, Ice did the opposite here. He provoked more suspicion in my eyes, should Siv flip town, onto himself. I hated the whole "this day needs to end right now", however true it is, expressing the apathy toward this game. While my wagon was weak, I disagree that I'd call it bullshit and dismiss it the way he did without prior knowledge of my alignment. In fact, I'd be somewhat suspicious of Hayate, depending on Siv's flip to be frank. But the thing that killed me, was the overly opportunistic vote on Math, which kinda proved to me he didn't really read the game as well as he did. Well that and the Siv accusation.

Ice picked the worst example to explain Siv being scum, out of everything Siv did, to cling to. I wonder if Ice read the game closely, or if he skimmed... I actually liked Bins here as she makes a point that no one has actually made any valid points or cases against Math. Don's back and forth with Math looks terrible for Don, because Don is trying so hard to grasp at straws. Siv also finally has a reason after that to cast suspicion on his partner, Don here. And then? This gem comes out... how do you forget Bulge when he literally pushed you for 2 weeks about how scummy you are and wanted your lynch? And in 2-3 days you suddenly forget?

I'm really, really, really bad at focusing on 10 other players at the same time. I don't really do well in games larger than 9 players. Once bulge left my attention, and he did so because I was the focus of my attention, nobody wanted to lynch bulge, everyone told me I was wrong about bulge and basically I got left in doubt, I had no reason to look at him again. Same reason I haven't looked at don.

Fish is looking better and better as I read through Page 16. Meanwhile Siv looks worse and worse. Here Siv states he's being opportunistic with his vote on Math (why? And what town-motivation is in that?) and then when voting for Don, clings to the fact that Don is lazy? What a terrible case, but it would make complete sense that he has to come up with something in case Don's wagon takes off and he has to buss his partner... Math points this out actually later on through this page, and exposes Siv also. Also: this post doesn't shock me at all Bins...

Ehm, any lynch thats not siv is okayish (definitely better than the alternative). Any lynch that's not siv's townreads is good. Math isn't a townread, math has got a wagon - hey lets vote math. Don is similar.

Here is Siv's answer when asked his opinion on me or Ice (remember, I took over the Hayate slot, that Siv tried really hard to cast suspicion on earlier)... Click Me!!! Fitz asked for suspicions on me, Siv's response "Not. At. All." Literally. What a big jump.

What? When? When did i cast suspicion on hayato? I mean, I doubted for a bit when hayato endorsed my lynch and basically worked myself out of it.

Also take a look through Page 17... once again, Don is there, Siv is there, and not a SINGLE COMMUNICATION is made between the two. Over and over and over again, throughout this entire game, there's been distancing between Don and Siv. Except for the "my top suspects are X, Y, and Don/Siv." Yet they don't talk to each other? How the hell is this possible?

Look back through it and tell me, can you find an actual conversation between the two? Anywhere?!?!?!? Bueller? BUELLER?! Wait maybe it changes...

*reads through Page 18 where both Don and Siv are posting*

Nope!

*reads what page of 19 we have currently*

Wait! Siv made a comment to Don about no kills! Finally Siv actually addressed Don without calling him one of his top suspects. Can we end this game now?

Well, there's this.

First to be lynched: Siveure DtTrikyp

Next in line to be lynched: Don_Johnson.

If for some reason I'm wrong: IceGuy. (But doubt it.)

My full reads list since I'm probably not going to die tonight anyway... (From towniest to Scum)

Math - 2
The Bulge - 2
HavingFitz - 2
Aronis - 1
Bins - 1
TSO - 1 - Buddied by Don Johnson
Everyone Else - 0
InnocentVillager -1
Don_Johnson -2 Buddied the hell out of TSO, is not talking to Siv at all, and is not actively hunting scum.
Siveure - 5

Ignore the numbers and notes next to the names, it was for my own record.

And then:

VOTE: Siveure DtTrikyp[/quote][/spoiler]

Ehm, I was gonna save this, but bulge voted second for both hayato and me, despite being the first to push in both cases.