NY 176: Completely Ridiculous Mafia (Game Over)

[Cephrir]

Might as well table Cabd until I figure out what the fuck he's claiming and {get an answer to the question I just asked/process whatever the answer is if it's been answered by the time I post this}.

Mirhawk: 249 features a kind of shitty excuse to vote Toomai. (What's scummy about posting without thinking?) We do, at least, admit quickly that it's not really anything.

In 577, Toomai's questions have become scummy again. I seem to recall agreeing with it at the time re: DJ, though. I hate the last line of this post.

I am annoyed that he still wants to lynch Toomai 400 posts after admitting his only reason for the scumread was tenuous.

931... :/

I did like his pushes on DJ at the time but, well... yeah...

I always look for remorse about wrong scumreads but I realize that it's not indicative of anything because literally no one does it ever~

Feels like he was just totally absent during the reinoe lynch, and comes in the next day calling it terrible, yuck.

I am visibly getting tired of trudging through these isos which is why this post is shit, sorry.

Um, basically, I'm now somewhat scumreading this slot because it's tunnelled Toomai the whole game for shitty reasons, I guess? I don't know, ask me when I'm less tired.

[Cephrir]

Cabd, how much confidence do you have in your ability to read me?

Meh. Not awesome. I know you're in the process of adapting your methods of play to metadodge people like falcon and mastin, and i assume i'm on the list as well, but you're the type that actively adjusts his scum AND townplay to meta-dodge, not just one or the other.

Hmm, I think any town meta adjusting by me is mostly unintentional/a product of me growing as a player, but this is basically the correct answer (I was getting my hackles up about you not pulling massive binders of meta on me, but then I realized that wasn't actually particularly fair).

[Cephrir]

Yeah so I'm sick of this thread see you all later.

[Cephrir]

Yeah so I'm sick of this thread see you all later.

: /, I love you Ceph.

Come back and

cuddle

talk about Toomai and Aegor with me.

In all seriousness I owe your walls a good reply when I'm not phone posting from this car.

I want to hear Izar snd scrambles reaction to recent ceph posts in the meantime

Hehehe, you sure know how to give warmfeels :3

I'm down for that whenever! I'm gonna get to Toomai soon, but if there's anything in particular I should be looking at, I'll hear it. I should probably figure out why you suspect Aegor.

[Cephrir]

I'm now somewhat scumreading this slot because it's tunnelled Toomai the whole game for shitty reasons, I guess? I don't know, ask me when I'm less tired.

Toomai has been scummy the whole game.

At what point have you seen him looking for scum, because he's not. He's lurking the hell out, while all the people who I'm suspicious of keep downplaying how scummy this is.

Alright, but like, have you considered doing other things?

I AM GLENN PECK. FEAR ME.

:}

Okay so here's the deal. Typically what I do when playing is mark down which posts seem alignment-indicative, assume all other posts are null, and order players based on the results. Right now, a quick look says that I have not given scumpoints to anyone currently alive since over half the game ago (I could be wrong, but nothing obvious has popped up). So in addition to everyone being either null or town, every single post I see is either null or town.

So I guess I have to start voting for people who are less town than everyone else.

Vote: ika

I seem to recall at some point mentioning that ika's reads had little if any justification. That's all I got.

I hate this :/

[Cephrir]

I could see Toomai's hypothetical partners being anyone. They could have tried to townread him early, they could have ignored him, and they could easily be bussing him given how useless he's been. I would probably analyze on a more case by case basis (i.e. do I think player X would be bussing him at this point if scum?)

[Cephrir]

Toomai first because relevant to game state.

Wagons need momentum to be sustained. A sustained wagon breaks us out of RVS.

Sustaining also goes well with the Phoenix Wright jokes at the time. So Objection! to the suggestions by Toonami that this is scum motivated.

Okay I can buy this.

Unvote

I don't know where to go now though. I like Izariael for town based on the reads list but don't have much of anything else to do something with yet.

Simplistic thinking.

Please don't abbreviate me as "toon".

I'll never see it as referring to me and always end up confusingly re-reading posts.

Aegor's being a doofus, but it's null for now. If he continues to be a doofus as the game progresses then it'll be an issue.

reinoe's entrance is awful.

Vote: reinoe

reinoe's entrance has never been and continues not to be awful; he was scummy for other reasons but not the ones Toomai ends up using, IMO.

^Toomai, convince me this is not opportunistic and that you actually thought reinoe was scummy.

It was opportunistic. I needed a reason to vote someone for the purposes of trying to steer the game towards serious mode.

I don't know that I buy this post and 278 coexisting.

Do you think the game is currently not in serious mode? If it is, what post do you think kicked off serious mode?

It's a spectrum; I don't think I can define it by pointing to specific posts. Page 10 was pretty serious mode, but when reinoe made his entrance on late 11 it regressed back into silly mode. I'm not sure what the town motivation for doing so would be, because it just creates a distraction.

So in retrospect I guess I do consider reinoe scummy for it.

Yeah so alright this is total shit.

I decided not to reread, it's not going to help me.

Toomai: Leaning scum, mostly for being way worse than the last time I played with him

Okay, so what am I doing differently? I don't know. I can't tell. I'm not capable of recognizing any playstyle other than "is playing the game".

Where are your /graphs/?

So I guess I have to start voting for people who are less town than everyone else.

Vote: ika

I seem to recall at some point mentioning that ika's reads had little if any justification. That's all I got.

I don't like the fact that this came at a time when I was grumbling about ika and no other suspects other than himself were really things.

Conclusion: Wait, why do I not have a scumread on this? I think I must not have been paying attention.

[Cephrir]

@Cephrir
Why are none of the posts you looked at for Toomai more recent then fifteen hundred posts ago?

No particular reason, nothing after that really gave me feelings. I referred to the recent ika vote though, I just didn't bother quoting it.

[Cephrir]

^ Can you explain that?

Basically, reads over time. 0% is null, +100% is conf-town, -100% is conf-scum.

While I admit to being jealous of your well ordered graph, I'm not sure as to how useful that is for scumhunting. It completely omits context.
Also since we don't know what triggered the changes that occur in the chart it's pretty useless to us as well.

It is mostly an internal tool for me, but if people want to see it (as done in previous games), I show it. If you have any questions about specific parts, ask.

Yeah, I needed to make sure that was happening, because if it wasn't, well, hello scum claim.

[Cephrir]

That's not a terrible argument. I could lynch either of Mirhawk and Toomai at this point, to be honest.

[Cephrir]

This page is one of my favorite pages in this thread.

[Cephrir]

Izy

...

[Cephrir]

It's not like it was a particularly sudden vote.

[Cephrir]

Unfortunately, much as I might wish to the contrary, I don't have any teammates to bus.

[Cephrir]

I *do* have long arms!

[Cephrir]

Toomai is at L-2.

I would warn the next potential voter about ika hammering, but I don't actually care if he does, so, whatever.

[Cephrir]

I want to be done with this day, but I also want to finish reviewing the players I've not gotten to yet so I can have better opinions tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

I don't have the foggiest idea why you suspect me or Izzy

[Cephrir]

You both look like scum to me. :/

[Cephrir]

My head says Toomai is scum.

My gut says otherwise.

The only thing this means is that I will definitely make the wrong decision.

[Cephrir]

Two of my strongest townreads are on Mirhawk and the last isn't voting.

[Cephrir]

Whatever.

VOTE: Mirhawk

[Cephrir]

That felt less wrong than I expected it to feel immediately afterward.

[Cephrir]

Trust me izy if you come after me, I will make it my job to Lynch you first.

By the way, this makes me cry.

[Cephrir]

Townreads are not earned.

They simply are.

[Cephrir]

Fence sitting is a Cephrir tell. Suck it up.

I think someone just wants to mislynch me tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

Fence sitting is a Cephrir tell. Suck it up.

I think someone just wants to mislynch me tomorrow.

so are you saying lynchign you today is not a myslynch?

If you were going to nitpick, the appropriate person to nitpick would be Mirhawk's post above this where he appears to admit to knowing I'm town

[Cephrir]

I think most of the Mirhawk wagon is scum

Your reads blow.

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:

I thought scanning was a weird term for a townread. Whoops.

Is there any particular reason for scrambles to not just full claim here?

[Cephrir]

If Cephrir, reinoe, DJ and MVP are Town I will allow AP to put a quote in my sig. I have no idea if this is allowed, but I'm willing to do it.

this rigns liek theres one scum in {Cephrir, reinoe, DJ and MVP} and 3 are dead......

If TSO is scum, he's been trying to look like he's awkwardly distancing from me for /days/.

UNVOTE:

I thought scanning was a weird term for a townread. Whoops.

Is there any particular reason for scrambles to not just full claim here?

He did, RTFT. Or just vote toomai and squirrelgirl back to whence you came.

Am I blind?

[Cephrir]

VOTE: toomai

If there are indeed 4 scum, Toomai and TSO are probably both scum.

[Cephrir]

I do too, actually. Please investigate me.

[Cephrir]

Because I don't see any other way I don't get mislynched tomorrow, even after Toomai presumably flips scum.

[Cephrir]

Oh shut up

[Cephrir]

Alright so I sort of siteflaked over the last week due to strenuous personal issues (notably needing to find a job) so forgive me as I try and recalibrate myself in this game. I sort of burned out.

Woah. holy shit. Full cop? If there is a full cop claim in the game then I am lynching either that or Cabd with haste.

Yeah, this is why I want an actual claim. If he comes back tomorrow with "lol im an odd night tracker" I will fucking cut a bitch.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir's switch onto Toomai makes me think they're both scum.

I would appreciate if someone actually checked me tonight, or just checked Cephrir - this bullshit about me being confirmed scum is moronic.

>I wasn't sure which to vote for
>Someone claimed a clear on Mirhawk
>Why the fuck would I do anything else?

[Cephrir]

Your stance on me has been so wildly inconsistent I can only assume it's in the hopes of connecting us.

[Cephrir]

Like seriously, it's getting kind of ridiculous. I was town or stupid a few pages ago, now I'm scum?

[Cephrir]

I can assure you, I am not stupid.

[Cephrir]

You being scum and Toomai being scum, in my mind, have nothing whatsoever to do with each other. If we take all our PRs at face value, there's a pretty small POE pool that contains several of my strong townreads. If we assume one of them is lying, that's still basically true.

[Cephrir]

The only problem I have with investigating you is that it precludes us from investigating me.

I could ask you the same question, seeing as you seem more convinced I'm scum than vice versa.

[Cephrir]

If Cabd was claiming investigative, I'm pretty sure he would be counterclaiming, so that must not be the case.

There are definitely too many PRs here though. A full cop in this setup seems absolutely absurd, gunsmith false positives be damned.

[Cephrir]

I may have a clue what Cabd is claiming, finally. If that's the case, I don't see any reason to make him claim today, but I also don't really understand why he seems to be taking scrambles at face value.

[Cephrir]

Vig & cop & even night gunsmith & cabd & 7 vts vs 4 scum? :S

[Cephrir]

if he's not investigative, how did night 2 clear AP? I asked about this before, but he never bothered to reply, so maybe one of you guys can answer it for me.

Good question actually.

No fucking clue.

[Cephrir]

Cabd should probably just claim, because this is getting silly.

[Cephrir]

Scum don't *always* bus, you know.

I'd have thought they'd be more likely to be the ones on Toomai before this whole fiasco who then jumped off in the hopes of getting to lynch the wrong PR today.

But that's still pretty simplistic thinking.

[Cephrir]

If we put aside PRs and Mirhawk today, there's only one non-Toomai option I would consider, and I don't see it happening right now, so eh.

[Cephrir]

I am not a god damn cephalopod.

[Cephrir]

WHAT

Also, WHAT

[Cephrir]

Why the fuck didn't you protect the claimed cop?

[Cephrir]

Hmph.

I guess I can see a scum roleblocker in this setup with the wtf gunsmiths.

Do we think it's both a roleblocker and 4 scum?

[Cephrir]

I think TSO is town.
I think TWIE is town.
I think AP is town.
I think Izzy is town.
Mirhawk is gunsmith clear, which is good but not perfect.
That only leaves Cabd, Aegor and ika. I kinda thought Aegor was town too, though.

[Cephrir]

Because when he was actually playing, he had a habit of saying what I was thinking before I did. Usually, I find that when my opinions line up with someone's that well, they tend to be town. That said, I do know that he's a very good scum player, but he's still felt good to me.

[Cephrir]

I mean, I don't think anyone is capable of predicting my reactions terribly well and intentionally being on my wavelength before I am. I'm not predictable enough. I think I've gone through and reanalyzed my read there somewhere in this thread and still felt good about it.

[Cephrir]

Also Cabd claim still sucks.

AP get in here and fullclaim.

I support this product and/or service.

[Cephrir]

If you want me to self meta I'll do it, but I would really rather not.

[Cephrir]

There's also the "make Cabd do it" option, but he's probably scum, so.

[Cephrir]

Don't worry, he isn't

[Cephrir]

I think I agree with the previous poster

[Cephrir]

Is alignment switching normal?

Not even slightly

[Cephrir]

Well, he claimed to save scrambles, so... either he's lying or scum roleblocker.

[Cephrir]

Probably both, really.

[Cephrir]

Neither, it's very much a thing and no one seems to mind. For good reason, really.

[Cephrir]

I'm a VT.

[Cephrir]

Who's Cephir? :p

What would you like to talk about? When you say setup, do you just mean "is Cabd scum"?

[Cephrir]

I'm not scum and I do not seek to explain stupid vigging decisions.

[Cephrir]

Not really.... Except that now I'm liking the bodyguard claim more than I would have liked a doc claim.

Which puts me back on AP.

What I really wanna talk about is that there has to be a roleblocker in this game right?

Like you cant put 2 investigatives in a game and no roleblocker?

But then the N2 kill makes no sense?

How likely is like a restricted RB?

I give hypothetical scum Cabd enough credit to realize that a doc claim was functionally suicide.

2 investigatives in a pretty small game, probably deserves a roleblocker. However, it's also possible the balance is thrown out of whack by the possible gunsmith cc scenario. I don't know how I would balance that. If the RB was restricted, it would be sort of awkward that it would be unable to block either Cabd or MVP ever; I could see an argument for nonconsecutive, though that tends to just be odd night.

I could see a full roleblocker on a powerful 3 scum team (which would obviously contain a doctor), but then the MVP kill becomes some pretty strange WIFOM and I don't know why they would do it when MVP claiming roleblocked probably gets him lynched day 3.

Cause their cant be a full doc in this game.

Like literally cant.

With 2 investigatives.

And potentially resticted RB.

I could see a maf doc as the scumteams big power role.

Because it doubles as the GF against double gunsmith?

No, of course there couldn't. There would be, like, no possible scumteam in that situation that would make anything balanced, and it would be ridiculously swingy.

I think this setup is obviously designed for, and possibly around, a mafia doctor.

[Cephrir]

Izariael is not scum, and lynching him will result in a scum win as assuredly as lynching me.

[Cephrir]

I can only surmise that either the scum did something wacky night 1 (like roleblock DJ and shoot them to create precisely this situation, knowing all the targets were town), or they decided to be antitown and take a shot in the dark that they didn't mention, which is certainly possible from a hydra of those two players.

[Cephrir]

Who would think up a scheme like that I wonder? If you guessed Cabd, you are correct.

[Cephrir]

Right but I also mean that the Maf Doc would also have to be restricted if AP is indeed town.

Because having our nurse become a full doc would also not be a thing that could happen this game.

I have never actually considered how an odd night protective role, or something of the like, would interact with a nurse. Hmph.

So having opposing restrictions would make a lot of sense to me?

So like odd rb and even doc?

Because I really dont understand why you would ever kill MVP if you could just rb him.

I think it may actually be legitimately safe to say that they could not RB him. Only alternative scenario, IMO, is a convoluted plot involving a rolecop on scrambles night 1.

Also I'm pretty sure TSO is scum claiming on this page.

But we should ignore that for now.

What's the scum motivation for weirdly flipping on me after the things he said earlier today? I'm not saying I don't believe there is any so much as that it bears discussion.

[Cephrir]

Discussion: "So do I".

[Cephrir]

Still not really sure what I ever did to get you so stuck on that

[Cephrir]

Well that's just me for you :/

Other than the claiming I'm not scum part, you've got me pretty much nailed to the wall there!

[Cephrir]

Ooh. I rarely think to consider timestamps (except my own sometimes when I'm scum). That's a really good point, I don't think that thought process looks particularly real.

Cabd/ika/TSO/Aegor??

Doesn't feel totally right, but it's something I can work with.

[Cephrir]

That's not actually a believable response to getting utterly demolished.

[Cephrir]

Did you protect N1?

Cabd, spit it out.

This game has a 4 man scum team, I'm a PR, and if what i think is right is right, then I have a backup role to me out there.

This doesnt look like general backup to me.

Yes. AP.

And "general backup" was the wrong term given that there's an actual role out there by that name. I thought he was some sort of secondary protective role, and I setup spec'd that he was only going to start working after my death. GM is fond of backup roles of various sorts (skypechat meta)

I have to question whether this role as stated would be normal.

[Cephrir]

That thought process genuinely 100% happened in 4 minutes, but I knew it would somehow be brought up to discredit me.

No, you didn't.

Explain how you managed to think that was an original thought.

[Cephrir]

Shut the fuck up, you're still getting hung today.

Nope, we're lynching one of your scumbuddies today ^^

[Cephrir]

Good job on the fake ATE against reinoe, by the way! You nearly had me!

[Cephrir]

Gosh, if this was my scumgame, that might be true! But, you know, it isn't.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: cabd

[Cephrir]

He is being so blatantly scum and rubbing it in our faces.

Not only am I not doing this now, on account of being town, I also have never done it, and will never do it, because why the fuck would I do that.

[Cephrir]

I'd also like you to think about this chronology of events:

Cephrir: "I have a super secret TSO tell."
TSO: "ugh"
*TSO has a hissy fit about reinoe and selfvotes"
Cephrir: "Oooh, TSO did that in FE and he was town there! I still kinda think he could be scum though." (I was up for lynch around now).
TSO: "I think you're scum, Ceph, idk why."
TSO: "Cephrir is 100% scum."
Cephrir: "So you ARE scum TSO!"

It's so reactionary and not townish.

PEdit: I just want to see if I can clear anything up - I won't write more than a line per reason, if I even respond to them.

What the fuck is scummy about my side of that

It just makes you look like scum

You also skipped the part where earlier today you pulled a "oh wait I'm only alive because ceph is town", which for one thing never made sense anyway, and for another was clearly done for the sole purpose of getting me on your side

[Cephrir]

Because if he was scum, people would easily have jumped on him, or quickhammered him, or SOMETHING. There's been nothing.
Because I've had a horrible gut feeling from him all game.
Because he repeatedly pulls shit like hardvoting Cabd when it's going to be him vs Cabd today which is horribly scummy.
Because he has done nothing all game.
Because there are quite probably 4 scum players alive today and for him to be town is incomprehensible to me.
Because a lot of stuff he's done makes no sense as town trying to figure stuff out.
Because he is a better town player than this.

-The same is theoretically true of AP. Alternatively you're just scum.
-That is nice.
-You say this is horribly scummy, and I don't have the slightest idea why. What is wrong with voting for someone I think is scum, and who is probably getting lynched today? You say this is repeated but A) I don't think it is and B) I wouldn't give a damn if it was
-I've actually done more than you, and not as little as you'd like to make out
-This is literally not a point
-Such as, for instance, _________________________
-How the fuck would you know? I have never even played with you before.

[Cephrir]

You should do stand-up.

[Cephrir]

Hold on, wait right here and I'll post a careful analysis of your gut feelings.

[Cephrir]

That was sarcasm

[Cephrir]

If anyone reads 2699 and then agrees that it's a bunch of deflections and non answers, I'll selfvote while eating my hat. Stay tuned for flying pigs.

[Cephrir]

Look, if you want to be productive, can you prod your scumbuddies or something?

[Cephrir]

Actively antitown, even.

[Cephrir]

Ika and Cabd are both scum, I don't really care.

Really hope there are somehow 3 scum, because we're obviously going to lynch me eventually and lose otherwise

[Cephrir]

If you insist

VOTE: ika

[Cephrir]

They're both scum *shrug*

[Cephrir]

Did we lose?

It's gonna be hard for me to feel dumb if we did.

[Cephrir]

Fuck this game.

VOTE: Cabd

[Cephrir]

I can't think of two scum roles that would balance this unless they were, like, both doctors.

[Cephrir]

I'd really like to see an NA team in semis. Sucks that we got such bad matchups. Come on, give me a moment of love for my country, please.

[Cephrir]

Serious question, did any of you fall for my shitty fake breadcrumb?

[Cephrir]

that post isn't a scumclaim, cabd said he would answer any questions we had so i was posing that question to him

also, what the fuck izzy, it's lylo, stop fucking around, tia

[Cephrir]

if izzy is scum trying to win a day earlier than otherwise i will probably consider suicide for how bad my reads were this game???? certainly mafia suicide anyway

[Cephrir]

>any of you

>any of the scumteam

I don't think that should be difficult to figure out

Also I don't actually have a shitty fake breadcrumb anyway

[Cephrir]

Eh, I don't really care I guess, we're going to lose one way or another anyhow.

Make my day.

[Cephrir]

TSO and Aegor, I guess

I should try to figure out whether that actually makes sense though

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

I know.

[Cephrir]

I wouldn't read anything into who does or doesn't vote cabd today

He's claimed scum

[Cephrir]

I don't feel like scum supersaint is normal, also

[Cephrir]

I feel like doc/vengeful balances gs/gs/vig/.....nurse? pretty well.

Why the flying fuck are we speculating about a vengeful mafia in the game. That has never happened ever that I can think of and Cabd would have just won the game by selfhammering if he REALLY is. I think hes a mafia doctor in all likelihood.

Why. Would. Cabd. Who I'm pretty sure loves rolling mafia.

Out himself yesterday for no reason if the game wasnt over.

Maybe because he's confident his buddies can bring it home :/

(which honestly gives me a moment of pause about TSO, him being town would be a great reason to believe this-- but I can't come up with a replacement scum I actually buy there)

[Cephrir]

Actually, yeah. I don't think Cabd acts this confident on a team with TSO and Aegor-- he'd have a good shot, yes, but not a guarantee.

I think I have something wrong here.

[Cephrir]

You're all ridiculous.

[Cephrir]

I will fucking hammer. I'll hammer him.

#sobrave

[Cephrir]

Oooooh yes that's me, I'm trying to get you to hammer my vengeful scumbuddy so I can win! Damn, I'm so upset you saw through my cunning plan

[Cephrir]

They're too scared to try to coordinate a quickhammer.

I've been there and done that.

Hell, maybe they don't even have daytalk? That would be pretty shitty planning on their part though

[Cephrir]

Just fucking vote the scum already holy crap

[Cephrir]

:/

I want it to be aegor tso but if it was that I don't know why Ap is alive

TSO or izzy being a townie left alive so they'll vote me makes a lot more sense

[Cephrir]

If you're town I gotta say it would be really beautiful if we made up and built a beautiful butterfly together

[Cephrir]

I guess I should probably iso cabd or something

[Cephrir]

The way this game has played out I am very clearly the designated endgame mislynch. From there, I have to conclude there is absolutely no way tso and izzy are both town. One of them has to be scum egging the other on.

Izzy ' s read on me over the course of the game makes less sense between the two of them. Sure tso sucks at explaining his read on me but at least he's consistent rather than flipping on me like yesterday for no discernible reason

But I need a computer to read everything aand process shit

[Cephrir]

If you could unvote until I get home that'd be great

[Cephrir]

I secretly meant when I get home tomorrow because wow today went to hell in a handbasket

[Cephrir]

We have time and there isn't necessarily daytalk. I don't like it when I see the someone would have hammered by now angle pushed too hard when daytalk isn't a known quantity

[Cephrir]

Neither Ap nor izzy has posted while there was a vote on me

Also I'm almost at a computer

[Cephrir]

hold onto your britches bitches

actually it probably wont be that great but that phrase sounded really good

[Cephrir]

vote bob

I would also vote AcBd if he is a wagon.

No reasoning provided on your initial vote, and yet you provided reasoning for an alternate vote that seems sheepy/scummy? tsk tsk

oh sorry for not giving random reasoning for my vote; I know that's a towntell

Thanks for the passive-aggressiveness. I just don't understand why you would vote Bob without listing a reason, yet list a reason you would vote for someone else and not follow through. That means it was a deliberate choice to vote Bob over Cabd... hardly random.

Okay yeah this thing is town. Screams town who is excited as fuck to play (hence why his first post was a masterpiece of lolz) and is coming out early game swinging hard.

So this is kind of an interesting one. Cabd calls Izzy town on like page 4 and then doesn't really interact with him or even make a pass at questioning that read literally ever again. All further interactions are of the basically useless questions variety. On the one hand, this reminds me of how Cabd treated me when we were scum together, but this is Cabd and obviously he'd be wise to me trying to think about his meta, so eeeeh.

For what it's worth, AP is simply going to call everything I do scummy - if you want to listen to him, great, but I'm not going to respond to his twisting. Anyone else is okay.

"twisting" implies you think he's scum. Do you?

This isn't very important but it's kind of an aggressive question. My first thought was "trying to get scumbuddy to post additional fake thought processes" but now that I've been through the iso I don't think that's what's going on here anymore.

For what it's worth, AP is simply going to call everything I do scummy - if you want to listen to him, great, but I'm not going to respond to his twisting. Anyone else is okay.

"twisting" implies you think he's scum. Do you?

I feel he has a grudge against me, at least. I'm not sold on him being town either - but the twisting itself comes from the grudge.

I genuinely think reinoe is either ballsy enough or stupid enough to play "too stupid to be scum" as scum.

Jimmy_Raynor's scum game in the newbie game I modded was pretty much him winning by his prior slot owner replacing out in a townish manner and people giving him towncred. While this replace out was more neutral, natural, and something not aimed at sinking any town cred. Thoguhts?

I feel I'm missing something very basic here - what you're telling me is that Jimmy won a scum game by coasting off slotcred - therefore, because he replaced out here, he's Town?

I'm pretty sure what you're saying is that you think he, after seeing it work so well as scum, would give reads in his replaceout if he was scum. Thing is, I don't think he even read the game or had reads to give.

Possibly. It's just a likelihood thing. That plus jimmy's super tryhard lengthy as scum from the data points I do have. He felt a lot more relaxed and such here in the few posts he has. I'm not willing to vote reinoe today. Join me on DP-scum?

And now he's treating TSo like town.Okay, sure. This will be relevant in a moment.

TSO's the only vote on Reinoe with any sort of merit, bob's and toon's are shit. Don't all post at once guys yeesh. As it is already there's three slots in this game, one of them a three-or-more-headed-hydra, with less posts than the mod for fuck's sake.

More treating TSO like town, admitting his vote is solid (ignoring for the moment that things turn out a bit differently).

{AP, Iz, Mirhawk, Aero Reinoe, maaaaaybe aegor but i have niggles}

{everyone else}

{depraved justice, MVP, maybe bob}

This is for myself than it is for everyne else, but if you ask me my read one one of the named players i'm just going to point you here for now.

So where the the fuck is TSO here? Instead of TSO in the town list, we have AP and Aegor and Mirhawk, none of whom Cabd has touched in the slightest and two of whom currently have good chances of being his scumbuddy. I think this is wanting to have the option to flop onto TSo later (though we have to question why he townreads so many if that's the thought process). AP is obvious-- Cabd doesn't want AP to get all up in his shit or he has to pretend he doesn't want AP to get up in his shit. Alignment not relevant there. In hindsight, it occurs to me that Cabd's disinterest in sorting me was probably a scum claim, because I know he'd love to stick it to me if he were town and I wasn't so he'd have been sorting me a lot harder. I'm sort of a moron .

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The day will end in 4 days, 5 hours, 17 minutes

If we could lynch someone in the next 48 hours so as not to tempt deadline rushes, that'd be fantastic. Lets start consolidating votes and getting off vanity wagons. *cough cabd cough*

Another ticker for AP town, also agree, see tales of you or really any large game in the past year for examples of why this fucking sucks. That said, uh, i'm not on any vanity wagons, learn2votecountread? I had unvoted MVP who was the main wagon at the time?

If by another he means literally the first yeah sure great.

The biggest reservation I have about TSO is that throwing a bitchfit is basically the thing I was looking for, because it pretty much happened in

FEA

every TSO game ever regardless of alignment.

FTFY

Yesterday you were going on about some big thing you were going to test overnight.

What was that about, where did it go?

It happened, and AP's town.

What the fuck did this mean??

[Cephrir]

Mean to comment after 1562: This is actually a really strong point in favor of TSO being town. That is a huge mudsling and he has no reason whatsoever to do it if TSO is his scumbuddy; why not let me run off the scent? Literally no reason.

[Cephrir]

I pretty much refuse to think too carefully about the fucking weird AP/Cabd interactions. I like my brain in one piece. But I do think it's a bit odd that AP hasn't seemed terribly apologetic about them in the aftermath.

I'm almost prepared to write off TSO as town which would make my life a lot easier in terms of the analysis I want to do. As much as his pushes on me have bothered me with their strength (I would expect a bit more tenuousness after the reinoe fiasco) and apparent lack of logic, the fire on reinoe was pretty real and I'm thinking the emotions have been too.

Aegor hasn't done anything this game.

Izzy is a weird one because he was in my corner for so long and then....just.....wasn't.

I might actually vote based on plausible teams of two even though that is essentially against my religion

[Cephrir]

My plan is to coast to lylo while remaining peripheral.

Objections should be raised now.

Not particularly what I'm doing here but god this post is still fucked and please don't do it ever again.

vote bob

I would also vote AcBd if he is a wagon.

No reasoning provided on your initial vote, and yet you provided reasoning for an alternate vote that seems sheepy/scummy? tsk tsk

Also not what I'm really doing here but this is not a scumbuddy interaction. Izzy is newish but he's not new enough to tsk at his scumbuddy. Ignore my wifom please thank you. I think in wifom sometimes and quite frankly suck it the fuck up.

TWIE and Aeronaut are townies. Iz might be if I squint hard enough.

Everyone else can still die. I don't really know who I want to vote though.

^This might be a scumbuddy interaction

People I am looking askance at: TSO, Bob, DJ, Aegor.

I don't quite get the Aegor one unless you think his whole "Im going to coast to lylo, deal with it trolls" is forced or something.

Aegor is probably null.

And if he flips scum, Im absolutely disregarding anything he has said about Toomai.

What the hell kind of statement is "Aegor is probably null" that doesn't even make sense. I still want the last sentence to be buddyesque.

Wait I figured it out. You rolled Serial Killer AGAIN, didn't you Aegor

AP likes to play the cheeky scumbutt and this could be a prime example. He would absolutely not shy away from making winky emoticons at scumbuddies.

Alrighty guys, I'm leaving for my weekend hiatus in about an hour, so I'm leaving you guys with my current reads, as underwhelming as they may be. I'll be home some time Sunday evening (Pacific time zone)

Towny:

Cephrir: I may be biased because his profile picture is Pumbaa, but several of his reads have lined up with my own ([102] listed most of my current scums). I feel that he's pushing conversation in a productive direction with some of his questions and statements as well.

Things that bother me include but are not limited to: the fact that Izzy goes back pretty hard on his apparently strongest townread me, even though my play hasn't really changed; the strength of the townread given that I wasn't actually being all that town; the strength given that I'm known as being susceptible to whiteknighting; going back on the second strongest (AP) as well in an interestingly dittoy move to TSO's thought process; aaand the reasonless null read on Aegor that I snipped out.

the lack of emotional response to Aegor from Toomai just rings wrong.

THIS is the germinaion of that scumread? Eugh.

I think that Reinoe gave a safe answer. It's something to keep in mind for late game if any of the three get that far.

Why are you specifically asking him about those 2 people? He seems rather apathetic about it.

I mean if you asked me if I'd rather lynch Izariael or Ceph at this point I wouldn't be able to give you a better answer.

So there is a progression on me but not on Izzy. What do I make of this? i don't fucking know. Izzy is very much a flow opinion here and from a hypotethetical AP Aegor team thinking izzy will be an eventual NK looks pretty reasonable at that point in time.

Ceph is too adorable to scumread right now.

I don't want this stuff to be manipulative, I really really don't, but AP is probably actually aware that I have a tremendous tendency to Oh My God You Rock and townread people right back who're on my side so it is unfortunately possible ;~;

DJ, your defense to the points I like seems to be more than hydra dis-- it looks to me like "my hydra partner and I have no communication whatsoever to the point where they move my votes without consulting me".

Seeing as the whole point of a hydra is to have someone to bounce scumreads off who you know is town, and having seen my own communication levels in town and scum hydras, I am not a fan. It's worth noting that I didn't even think both of your heads were posting, so obviously, I cannot tell you apart. You could easily be making up a second head entirely to explain away scummy behavior from my perspective (but I doubt this is the case).

Your move back to MVP as though you never rethought it at all doesn't smell right to me.

I agree with every sentence of this post.

So I quoted this as part of a series on Izzy's treatment of the DJ wagon. Izzy actually pushed them very very hard and for some reason never catches any flak at all and is never actually seen as a prime mover or anything. This is odd.

I'm not seeing much productivity coming out of this conversation, so this will be my last post on the topic. My goal here hasn't been to push for your mislynch, it was to explain why I've found you to be scummy. It was a reply to this:

Also, Iz, you are scum reading my slot for the same reason that everyone else is right?

This is kiiiinda a strong push that's trying not to look like a strong push, I think, maybe?

If you think "productivity" is of any relevance to this game then TSO and Toomai (and Bicephalous Bob) are vastly superior shots as they haven't done anything all game.

I'm really done talking to you at this point. You spent most of your first half this game taking care to shut T S O down and making sure his statements were lost in the fray, and now you're saying he hasn't done anything all game.

Hey look it's Izzy doing exactly the same thing to reinoe.

That is, pushing a lynch on a townie while painting them as useless and counterproductive and not to be listened to. I probably did the same thing at some point so I guess my license to complain about it is not that much of a thing?

listed below

So yeah, like, this is actually a pretty good post?

No, it's really not. I'd threaten you with unflipped associative tells for this, but I'm not reinoe.

I've seen this movie before.

Would Reinoe/ika/ceph make sense as a team? Ika keeps making weird posts about ceph and voting other people. Reinoe is on his way out the door and keeps talking about Ceph like its hip.

The sneaky crane is probably not to be trusted.

What the fuck is this shit? I become scum here from absolutely nowheereville?? It's kinda too much for me the way this happens. First AP starts doubtcasting on me.... and then Izzy does. Even though they were my strongest defenders all game. Did AP say "hey Izzy, we need to push Ceph, we're gonna have to mislynch him"? The possibility is foremost in my thoughts, I have to admit, and that is a very AP thing to do.

[Cephrir]

Yeah so I'm sick of this thread see you all later.

: /, I love you Ceph.

Come back and

cuddle

talk about Toomai and Aegor with me.

In all seriousness I owe your walls a good reply when I'm not phone posting from this car.

I want to hear Izar snd scrambles reaction to recent ceph posts in the meantime

I am caught up.

I really have no interest in lynching someone other than Toomai unless a compelling case is presented. That has not happened. I confess that I do not understand why so few players are voting, and the nonvoters bother me greatly.

I usually sit on my vote after D1 unless I really have a strong feeling which I don't atm.

I'm kind of pissed of that Reinoe self-voted where he did and that Ika baited them into a double hammer. I'd consider lynching Ika but he did this exact sort of thing in Xmen mafia and was town there. I want a chance to relook at Ceph and TSO Today before I commit to anything. I realize I'm not being a huge presence and that is because I am cramming for an interview tomorrow. Give me a day or two to get my head deep in this please.

Why are we being nice to me one post and bouncing ideas off me and needing to relook at me the next?

[Cephrir]

Another issue I have with AP this game. He's a really good scumhunter, strong players, and he's just been so utterly wrong. Am I allowed to Burden of Proficiency here?

[Cephrir]

Then I felt like going after Ceph because he's been on all 3 mislynches and seems to be quite comfortable with me in his pocket... His day 4 has a different tone than the others and he seems to be reacting strangely to the warning shots of the firing squad. There's more red flags here than all of China.

Then I felt like saying fuck it to both those options, because ika's dumb hammers have shot us in both knees.

VOTE: ika

here's the first shift to me and no surprises at all it makes me cry. I was strong town the last time Izzy posted about me.

[Cephrir]

LOL. Am I the lone townie?

I don't think this is a real thought

[Cephrir]

In conclusion fuck me you're all scum and I don't know which of you to not vote.

I'm leaning towards AP/Izzy.

[Cephrir]

TSO, if you can't unvote me, at least now I can die knowing I tried. If you want to go down this road I will crossvote you with a heavy heart.

[Cephrir]

I feel like I'm the only one who still cares, which is mildly ironic after I spent half the game not caring.

[Cephrir]

I'm not, but I would love to get the chance to try 3p lylo after we get today right and I think this may just be the way to do it.

I want to sit on this for a while before I completely commit to betting the game on you being town but I'm 90% going to.

[Cephrir]

Did you read my walls :p

I spend half of them calling you town ya dingus

[Cephrir]

Of course we aren't a scumteam >. <

[Cephrir]

Aegor and I you silly bird

[Cephrir]

Alright, fuck it. There is no way universe where I don't do this. If tso is scum I'm going to lose aand I don't think ap and aegor are a plausible team. I'm ready to go for broke.

Cringe.

VOTE: izariael

[Cephrir]

I probably should have just left my vote sitting out there to avoid that becoming a nailbiter

[Cephrir]

It's a really good thing I moved first, I would have been too slow from my phone

[Cephrir]

Also this setup was really townsided. What the fuck.

[Cephrir]

*hugs for ap*

[Cephrir]

<3

[Cephrir]

I felt like I was obvious scum for disbelieving the vengeful mafia bulls hit

But I refuse to pretend to think something so utterly dumb