Newbie 1769: Happy New Year! (Post-Game)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i got excited because i saw an RQS but consider me disappointed in this one

Everyone
3. Do you prefer to play town or mafia?
4. What is your favorite/least favorite role?

3. Mafia

4. wouldnt you like to know

VOTE: ThinkBig

[gigabyteTroubadour]

_schadd, is your TB vote serious?

mine is

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh sorry it's schadd_

EBWOP

[gigabyteTroubadour]

is that because he's your buddy?

thanks for making this game easier, i was getting overgamed anyway

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh forgot to say

hey GAYreen

you remember me right?

i'm never on PS! lmfao

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm taking that 100% seriously

no sarcasm

also since RVS is over and other reasons (early game I don't like to give reasoning for most of my actuons because it helps develop my reads), i suggest not answering TB's RQS

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah i catch your drift though that's not why i'm voting

this is a good wagon

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Creature

Will you be making a vote today?

If so, who will it be?

What are your thoughts on the current gamestate?

Did ThinkBig slip that you're his partner?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

interesting.

agreed on needing more players posting though

the game did go up at like 1 am though my time

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Schadd looks good to me. Why does he look bad?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

More often then not but I see creature get scumread a fair bit when he's town too.

yeah creature's not an IC that gets killed N1

but that's not happening this game because i'm like 80% sure creature's town here

legit think creature's the easiest player to read on this site

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i feel like the posts he wrote here was like legit interest in having discussion about something

like usually scum!creature struggles to talk about something and will sometimes artificially inflate his post count with bullshit

haven't gotten that vibe at all

[gigabyteTroubadour]

interested*

[gigabyteTroubadour]

zzzz

yeah normally i wouldn't out a read like that early on but this sentiment of there being apathy/nothing to comment on (I thought my vote would be divise or interesting but??????) is kind of annoying

[gigabyteTroubadour]

divivise*

i should be coding sorry im in class

[gigabyteTroubadour]

divisive**



and eh anything to get the game moving, don't feel bad

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I can see myself as tunneling, but Schadd? His vote doesn't seem that aggressive to me.

plus idk if this is really the point in the gamestate where someone can be tunneling as town, not everyone has posted so you're still forced to read every slot that makes sense

Unless you're insinuating I'm scum going for an overblown push and preemptively going for the confbiased-townie archetype?

Also hey

[gigabyteTroubadour]

kinda hard to make a call on this game's difficulty without everyone posting

give it a day or two

also if it's worth noting i correctly called GAYreen as scum in our last game together but got lynched for like no reason in LYLO when i was calling for his head

[gigabyteTroubadour]

felt like TB's vote would be a good discussion point so that votes wouldn't have to be random. force people to take sides and good stuff like that

i kind of overestimated that potential

honestly rvs is more of a state of mind than a finite stage so usually when people say "rvs is over" it's not serious or at least subjective to whoever said that

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i thought he was building off of me tbh

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i don't really see TB town but scumreads don't really matter, especially in a small game

5 correct townreads is enough to solve a 9 player game and I usually am pretty close D1

or at least i like to think

[gigabyteTroubadour]

other than that i'm basically agreeing with you

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah i don't think this game will be that hard creature

[gigabyteTroubadour]

OK i'm here now, just got out of school , anyways, I came from PS! Mafia like gigabyteTroubadour did. So why is TB being lynched?

i'm being cagey with my reasoning because i want the newbies to form a read on a slot i think is divisive. don't want sheeped reasoning and all that just yet

but honestly i feel like i'm the only person that's

really

feeling it

what are your thoughts on him?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

this is the point where i realize that maybe my read is a bit loopy but i don't really have anything better

4. What is your favorite/least favorite role?

^ scummy RQS question IMO

like i would think in a newbie game, a newer player may kind of be off guard and, if they actually HAVE a PR, might have special interest in that role that shows when they answer the question

just gives me rolefishing vibes

[gigabyteTroubadour]

plus none of the questions were that open-ended and like setting a baseline for how people answer questions directed to them is one of the best ways of using rqs

i should know, i caught my first scum with RQS

[gigabyteTroubadour]

not really getting any town vibe from you gayreen but i think some of the things that you could be scumread here for are just weirdness from PS! meta tbh

[gigabyteTroubadour]

1. RQS stands for Random Questioning Stage which is basically is what TB started. It's an alternative to RVS that's rarely seen outside of newbie games because most people don't make good RQSs and RVS is much easier to work with.

2. Why wouldn't TB do that? I would just assume he'd do it if he was scum but there wasn't anything personality-wise that makes me think he wouldn't try that as scum. Also, why do you think someone would lie about an RQS answer? like yeah i guess the PR they'd name is effectively random but nothing is truly random (and having a different role PM is a significant bias) :/

what i mean about that is how your 87 kinda felt like the "well there's no hard evidence they're scum but if you can give me a paragraph long case in a chat format within like 10 seconds i'll consider it" which has been the death of my scumhunting on that site

can see people finding it scummy because original thought processes are generally pro-town

pedit: yeah creature basically covered it but i think the point about how it's not really common is important too

[gigabyteTroubadour]

add the word "mindset" after the quote

[gigabyteTroubadour]

well then what would you feel like lynching someone based off of

i'm townreading like 4 slots right now so my standards for scumreads are kind of low

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i dont exactly like how shadd_ lynched in left, if thats anything

?

What do you mean?

also if you don't like something I would vote for that person, having no vote is generally unhelpful since votes are completely fluid and voting for mafia is the only way to get rid of them (of course that's a subjective opinion but i think experience will show you it's pretty true)

note that usually our lynches are majority (not plurality) and the day doesn't end as soon as everyone's voting like in PS! so there's very little harm in voting for someone

[gigabyteTroubadour]

lmfao

advice for the future it's not a good idea to point out softs

also i have my 5 townreads, game over gg mafia

@Gayreen, especially because I think he's town, can you explain what you meant by your reasoning?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I mean, i guess it probably doesnt mean much in forum, but shadd_ just kinda lynched and stopped talking, and i just find it a lil susp, but thats about it :'D

yeah that's not really suspicious here in most contexts

we have like 2 weeks to go at this and people have work and school and lives in general so usually just checking in and making a few posts is typical

i don't feel his engagement in the game is bad either, like an example of where that would be suspicious is if there were more things to talk about, like dueling wagons or something

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I have 4 townreads, if you add me, it's 5v4.

so i'm townreading someone you're not

GAYreen's engagement with me felt super genuine and i think as scum he would know not to point out the tracker soft and wait to tell his partner about that because he'd be thinking about nightkills instead of lynches. felt more like town derp

You're really obvtown here. The "this game is going to be hard" comment just pinged me as super chicken little town which is classic town!Creature especially

Rask I'm vibing with really hard here and just feel spiritually connected to him here. their game here so far is probably within their scum range but it feels way more town than not so. dunno how else to word it

i liked matt's vote and his first few posts, felt like he had an idea of how to start scumhunting and his questions were pretty legit for a newbie

schadd's voting the closest thing i have to a scumread and did it on his own volition. plus his reasoning for the vote is decent enough for the point of the gamestate we're in. good tone too

not in any order but that's where i'm at

Is it a bad idea to say who your townreads are, or are you guys just opting to not say them

this post should answer that question

[gigabyteTroubadour]

honestly it's a subjective thing

like i'd make the argument in most games that it's bad to do early in a newbie because the newbies who haven't posted yet will know how to adapt to the players in the game to be townread

but with a slow gamestate like this talking about anything is the only way we can really move forward

[gigabyteTroubadour]

GAYreen (and any of the newer players here), have you read any games on here? It might be a good idea to see what's considered scummy/townie (if you don't already have a sense) or just get an idea of how a game usually goes.

Newbies are typically really slow like this but there are a few good ones out there too.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

his questions were pretty legit for a newbie

actually he only asked one question

it was a decent question though anyway

[gigabyteTroubadour]

(type in dead between colons to be just like me )

you can get a good deal of posts if you view one person's ISO but yeah it's not the same.

i can kind of sympathize with not trusting townreads after a hard scum loss (read newbie 1718 ) but honestly losses like that are the best teacher like that. What do you make of Rask btw? They're my most gutty/weird read so maybe some thoughts both ways could help develop that

also that's a boards of canada avatar right

GAYreen (and any of the newer players here), have you read any games on here? It might be a good idea to see what's considered scummy/townie (if you don't already have a sense) or just get an idea of how a game usually goes.

Do you recommend any games in particular? I've read a little bit of day 1/day 2 from a game, but games are so long that it's hard to really read through a full game.

Off the top of my head, I thought Newbie 1741 was a good game (relatively active town, quirky characters, good thought processes from both sides). It's good enough I wouldn't want to spoil the ending tbh

1746 is my only scumgame so if you want to see that in action that's there. it's more of a "what-not-to-do" sort of read though, town fucked it up pretty badly there because they took too long to do anything useful D1 and rushed D2. looking town there wasn't hard for me to do at all and I didn't even have to bus my partner who asked to be bussed in our pt

1759's my most recent town game that's finished but it's kind of a shit read

1735 was kind of crazy but not really a newbie game, lots of replacements early on and older players took most of those slots. still an interesting game

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ye

(type in dead between colons to be just like me )

yeah. or i could click on the thing on the right side of my screen. skull emoji

same. skull emoji

I'm still looking through games btw, 1729 is also a pretty decent read so far (i'm only on like page 3 though and i barely remember reading it in real time)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Actually you have two townreads I don't townread.

wait did you lose a townread then?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

^ town

[gigabyteTroubadour]

lmfao i realized that you felt that way after i hit submit

i tend to skim like every game on this site that's ongoing whenever i'm online so i have a general vibe of most people on here

i've townread some of your scumplay before so i don't really think it's a far-fetched conclusion though. i think the scum games of yours i remember was that Open with Lycanfire and that newbie with rXJr where i did have you as a townread in both

[gigabyteTroubadour]

he's at L-3 i thought

it's just me and schadd voting him

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm fantastic

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: thinkbig L-1

yeah this is L-2

wow, thanks rask

?

i don't have an issue with that vote rn either

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Okay, now I have 3 townreads.

why are your reads going down??

Well, imma put him at L-1, if thats ok

earlier you said you didn't see much reason to lynch him? what changed?

i've townread some of your scumplay before so i don't really think it's a far-fetched conclusion though. i think the scum games of yours i remember was that Open with Lycanfire and that newbie with rXJr where i did have you as a townread in both

Okay that actually makes sense, sorry for lashing out at you about it then. Couldn't really have known that but whatevs

's cool, was an obvtown reaction anyway

[gigabyteTroubadour]

is that town

i'm not sure honestly

Giga its more of a pressure thing, but considering he is almost back, i let him explain a lil more when he gets here

they're going to catch up on everything when they come back from work

dunno if that means almost

But what pressure does a vote have if you don't believe in it? all it really does in an instant like this is bring out a claim faster/end the day which isn't always pro-town

[gigabyteTroubadour]

feels too calculated to me

what, the claim?

(lack of quotes sometimes makes it unclear what people are talking about but i'm a chronic shitposter/hyperposter at times so i'm kind of a hypocrite here)

we also definitely have less than 14 days

splitting hairs, the point is valid even if TB is scum because

Two players yet have to post...

Thinkbig if you're actually town and just happened to check the thread via phone 10 minutes after I voted and overreacted based on an l-2 because you were on mobile and couldn't read and claimed because you didnt have time to respond because you weren't home yet and you also have your own personal theory that people should claim at l-2 without intent I've never heard about, I think I hate both you and my luck.

also this

[gigabyteTroubadour]

gigabyte has anyone ever compared you to aristo before?

Gamma Emerald thought I was an alt of his because I compared myself to a statue of Vladimir Lenin

but other than that no

i saw your guys' point giga and rask, i have been a little screwy with my lynching... Meh, not gonna put at L-1 without a reason

i mean if you agree with our points that's fine but usually being a bit more open about that thought process helps your vote not look opportunistic

definitely on-board with not L-1ing people without reason though

@TB, you've played scum before right? Like alone (not in a hydra, there was that game with Kain Tepes but hydras are poop for meta)? i forgot tbh

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hmm...

that's actually a valid point

[gigabyteTroubadour]

you can't prove or disprove anything in a mafia game really gayreen

there's nothing wrong with having your own reads even if they go against the grain you know.... like it's fine you agree with our points but i feel like you're being a little too sheepy

like normally i'd be scumreading you for that but A: I kind of know your play as scum and it doesn't feel like it here, and B: your pointing out the soft was just really derptown

Ill be back, gtg have dinner

aight~

[gigabyteTroubadour]

am i unexistent

i'm actually curious as to what those reads are if you don't mind sharing them

specifically the townlean

[gigabyteTroubadour]

GBT earns a bit of a townread just because they're posting very much a lot, not especially dense but not sparse either. at least, they are an especially confident scum player

i mean for me i guess this is valid (i'm more of a quotestripper as scum based on my one game) but some people are good at faking this

is anything about my hyperposting genuine specifically?

also i think rasks's emotions are very townie, why would they be scummy?

@creature i think that's a typo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm not sure what to think about Creature at the moment. It seems he's being vague with all his posts, and can't get a read on him.

Creature (especially town!Creature) usually feels like that the first time you play with him. I do like that you're more inquisitive/neutral about it rather than trying to push on it, especially considering how lynchbaity creature can be sometimes.

I'm weak with analysis and generally play with overblown gut but I'm liking the route you're going with

1. i mean for me i guess this is valid (i'm more of a quotestripper as scum based on my one game) but some people are good at faking this

2. is anything about my hyperposting genuine specifically?

3. also i think rasks's emotions are very townie, why would they be scummy?

numbers added

1. what's a quotestripper?
2. uh, nothing in particular. there's just a bunch of stuff (almost a third of posts in the thread) and it's more that you haven't screwed up than that you have done anything remarkably genuine
3. i only emotions'd once, as scum. i think it's easy to fake, since people tend to sound silly when they're angry anyway. it surely depends on rask's precedent, tho

1. Someone whose posts are usually long walls with bits of quotes and responses. Like if I write a big wall, a quotestripper would quote maybe each sentence or two and respond to it (or put a bunch of quotes in one post).

2. .... how exactly would I "screw up"? like outright scumslip or

3. Really? Most people (especially tone readers) usually believe that some degree of emotion is possible to fake as scum, but usually you can tell if someone is being genuine if you know what to look for. Like Rask's emotions feel really natural and reasonable considering their contexts (his annoyance at me saying that his play was within his scumrange probably, his reaction to TB's claim) to me. Scum might react more... obviously? (like they might state "ugh i'm pissed that..." and not really show their emotions as much through tone)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also rask's precedent (here we usually call that "meta" but people would probably get you either way) backs up that he'd act this way as town imo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh matt i forgot to mention

i definitely think a pr would claim pr, getting lynched as provable town is way worse than nk'd

plus if he's scum and claims pr he can bait the real pr to claim (or get away with a fake-claim). you're kind of close with your logic here actually, a PR only shouldn't CC D1. Always claim your real role at L-1 (and are town) unless you absolutely know what you're doing

[gigabyteTroubadour]

It only applies for investigatives (maybe jailkeepers?), but basically the logic is they can still hide while there's a second ML and get a result and then claim the start of the next day

So let's say Scum claims Tracker at L-1, but there's really just a single cop (no doctor). The cop knows for a fact that the tracker is scum and can investigate a likely partner (a guilty leads to autowin here) and then get them lynched the next day (or in LYLO). There's also the added boon that you dying in the night is still basically a guilty (in the long run it'd probably be better to cc if you're just relying on this hut we're not). If they CC'd instantly, you'd get your scum lynch most likely (we rarely keep contradicting PR claims alive. maybe doctors or BPs in this set-up?) but then you miss out on the potential autowin from a second guilty.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i guess maybe it's only smart in the single cop set-up actually

with tracker the scum that kills is the fakeclaimer always

jk can play around that ^ though

[gigabyteTroubadour]

gayreen i think rakkar's post was a good example of when "just dropped in and left" could look scummy

obviously i'm not voting him because maybe he's just too new to know how to engage with the thread but i don't think it's town either

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah if it's not TB/rakkar then i'll have to reevaulate quite a bit

@Shade, I'll answer your questions once I'm home, the drive is like an hour long

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Why would you vote someone to get them lynched, that soon in the game?

If you have a scumread (you think someone is more likely to be mafia based on their posts and your perception of their motivations), then it's simply playing to win to vote to have them lynched. The only reason, at least to me, to withhold your vote is if you're not ready to end the day with a hammer and claim.

I'm assuming that by asking that, (if this is not true then you can ignore this question) that there's a reason you believe I shouldn't have voted TB in that instant? If so, why?

This means that you can be mafia as well? I was assuming it's 1 newbie/1 SE team, isn't it? [after reading 80 I guess not]

I know this was for creature but i kind of want to comment on it

the game would focus way too much around optimal play and be too townsided (favoring town wins) if it were always 1 newbie/1 SE. Basically you'd just have to lynch all 2 or 3 SEs and then let the NKs confirm 1-2 newbies as town, and then leave the rest of the game to the remaining 3 newbies. kinda defeats the purpose of the game i feel. (if the team is in fact two newbies, godspeed. i've seen a few of newbie-newbie teams do really well but rolling scum for your first game without knowing how to town must really suck )

If there are several behaviors that are already known as scummy, why would any scum do them? Unless if you're saying a newbie might do them when they're scum which contradicts with your action - pointing them out to them.

Anyway as I said I have someone close who plays this so I know about some of these behaviors you're talking about.

Scum are inherently lying about the information they have when they play Mafia and also win the game in a different manner than Town. Basically playing this game is looking for people who are trying to hide those two things from the rest of us.

Sometimes for people first picking up this game, it's hard to really understand what someone lying about information they have looks like (maybe less so for having different motives when reading newer players but it's not always intuitive) over text. This leads to a lot of players looking for a lot of bad (in my opinion) universal tells, like "OMGUS" (voting/suspecting someone because they suspect you, which I think can be a valid reason to vote someone if you think their reasoning isn't genuine) or being over-defensive (Nobody wants confirmed town to die because that doesn't help town win at all. Survival shouldn't be your biggest priority but some people (like me lol) are really bad to reacting to pressure). Reading past games where you can see other players in your position go through the motions might help jumpstart the right thought process, and also let you see what scum in different skill levels look like.

A general understanding of psychology (not like actual psychology, but being able to put yourself in one's shoes and ask why they would do something from their vantage point) and some emotional intelligence goes a long way in scumhunting.

Thinkbig is not a newbie so if its known that people must claim after an intent on MS, him claiming there is actually scummy.

tbh i think newbies give the SE title too big of an importance it really is... I would definitely consider TB a newer player (and myself too) so it's kind of believable. Still weird and warrants explanation though imo.

What is the meaning of sheepy?

You've heard people call others "sheeple" right? Like someone who is a sheep just follows whatever big voice there is out there. Sheepy's just an adjective to describe someone who is a sheep.

Sheeping (the act of being a sheep) isn't extremely scummy imo but I think that newbie scum having trouble parsing the thread to make legitimate looking reads might mimic other player's reads. I do, however, strongly believe that GAYreen is town so by saying that I was just pointing out that he shouldn't be afraid to develop his own thoughts (which we clearly saw he had). After all, this is game is as cooperative as it is competitive, so not being sheepy and producing your own original thoughts and analysis is ultimately going to help which ever team you're on.

Their either mafia who claimed like that in first place or is really a Vanilla Town who is compromised to mafia. Going in other directions will probably help mafia in their PR haunt and I don't like that.

Yeah I'm kind of uncomfortable with this too.

Like I had a scumread on TB, yes, but now I feel like the entire gamestate revolves around me having an accurate read page 1 and if I ended up botching it for town it'll hurt us in the long run. This would be an example of why claiming at L-1 with intent is important...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Also, giga correct me if im wrong, but what you are implying is OMGUS, or lynching me because i lynched you

which posts are you referring to here? sorry i took a quick glance at my ISO and couldn't find anything.

ftr i absolutely hate the term OMGUS and cringe whenever i see people use it

Also, @GAYReen and rakkar, getting an avatar is extremely helpful and playing outside of the newbie queue will generally lead to you getting an inundation of posts telling you to get an avatar

it helps connect your posts to a face for most people and also helps you stand out, which is important regardless of your alignment imo

if you need help setting/choosing an avatar feel free to PM me, I have photoshop finesse and can edit/make (i'm not an artist fwiw. i made my own avatar by putting pictures together and changing the colors) an avatar for you. if you're on mobile i can also give you an imgur link so you can set it in that fashion

[gigabyteTroubadour]

sitewide though

i think he took on too many games again ;_;

[gigabyteTroubadour]

it's alright, tyt

[gigabyteTroubadour]

You said your vote was serious means you wanted to get them lynched. It's just hard to believe you got that strong feeling about a slot based on that post. I'm concerned about how fast you reached that state for being comfortable for saying your vote was serious not that you shouldn't have voted him.

honestly it's not as strong as i made it out to be

i kind of hope this was implied through my iso but it was like 60% posture 40% actual read, i figured acting like i had a really strong read would help divide the town and get better reads by having people take sides

starting controversy generally is a good way to get information but when people aren't interested it kind of fizzles out and doesn't help anyone

i do typically get reads on people off of 1 or 2 posts though but they're seldom lock-reads. being able to adjust your reads to the gamestate is probably one of the most important parts of play as either alignment.

I actually try* that and sorry for grammatical errors.

I'm just tired.

it's cool, i've made a lot of errors too this game

[gigabyteTroubadour]

and i'll try to cut down on hyperposting a bit, reading 9 pages of one-liners is really annoying and i'm really bad at exacerbating that

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Hey all! I have off today and tomorrow (WOO HOO) so let me take some time to catch up!

yeah tyt, you're going to get lynched today anyway

hey rakkar, do you have any thoughts or insights in the gamestate right now?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

So giga, why are you townreading schadd?

emotional vibing, liked his TB vote early game, i think his calling TB's claim calculated looks like genuine analysis, general approach to the game feels like town with like 1 game of experience off-site

but i'm kind of at a point where i have to pick two in {schadd, shade, matt} to be very confident in their townieness to get that game-winning townbloc (very confident in rask, you, and GAYreen town)

or i could just scumhunt but i honestly want to get a baseline of everyone's personality first, i'm ass at scumhunting but i don't think an overemphasis on townhunting is the right approach this game like usually works out to be, feels too slow?

rakkar needs to post something game advancing

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm kind of agreeing that rakkar + ThinkBig are scum, but I need to be prepared if one of them isn't scum.

exactly how i feel :///

we need dissent imo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

why isn't rask striked off btw

or is that just your undying paranoia of him

[gigabyteTroubadour]

that doesn't seem like a particularly scummy post to me, he could just be too busy to figure out how to jumpstart this game as town. i'm struggling to do it myself

do you think rask has a particular reason to avoid this game as scum? i think he's only in like 1 other game anyway

[gigabyteTroubadour]

This is a url to the game in question btw

Just from the bits we've seen of Rask I feel a lot more emotional depth coming from him but i also haven't fully reviewed this game to make a super strong meta-read

i mostly followed this one up to D1 and also looked at the very end because i planned on replacing into Zyf's slot but nexus told me that pre-game subs have to be given to you by Mina (they're taken directly from the queue)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Can you explain your line of thinking please? I really like to see how you will explain your reads.

On the townreads or why I need 2 to basically win?

On needing 2 more townreads, basically my townread on Creature is based on a really bulletproof (at least so far) tell in seeing how engaged he is in a game; Rask has posts like 124, 144, and 156 all have this naturalness to them in reaction time and tone that I think scum, who already know everyone's alignment, have a difficulty faking; GAYreen because I think from what little I've played with him has this naivety that reads really strongly as curious town (when I played against him as scum, most of his attention was focused on discrediting the townbloc i was forming while coasting and not really scumhunting, which was key to him winning). These are all really strong reads that I don't see myself being wrong on, while my townreads on you, schadd_, and matt I think are likely true but I think based on schadd_'s experience and just my general idea of the three of your personalities can possibly be wrong (and also the easiness of the game if we just found all the town and the scum were everyone else).

from a game theory perspective (i.e., why you basically need 5 townreads that are correct to win although it's technically 4), we have 2 mislynches before XYLO (i use this as a cross between LYLO and MYLO). this means if i correctly identify 4 other townies, then i theoretically can just powerlynch the other slots and win the game 100% of the time. Having 5 to really focus in on though is even safer because we can't always just speedlynch scummy slots (and taking it slow enough gives you time to form associative reads).

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also the point that we obviously could be wrong about TB is why we want to know his thoughts regardless of alignment and why him being the leading wagon is going to stall the game

he's reading the game with the perspective he's confirmed town, so if he's actually town this is a perspective we need. if he's scum then we get a thought process we can scrutinize and either we lynch him because it seems scummy or he gets the chance to maybe be let off the hook if his POV reads as valid enough to not lynch (although as we already discussed with the claim this is probably a bad idea).

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I really just want TB and rakkar to participate

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Hm...

VOTE: Shade

Creature, you might be onto something here actually.

But in that case this is the better vote.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

and now we wait for people to ask why

early game can be so awkward

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i mean you would say that because that's one of your tells

i say shade over rakkar because someone who's active and can respond to pressure (and for rakkar if it's shade/rakkar, is a buddy worth saving)

but the question for the audience here is why shade over TB

Oops GAYreen is in prod danger.

yeah i shot him a message just now actually

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Because I think I think ThinkBig's claim was towny I think.

let the newbies answer

but you're getting there. i still think TB has a shot of flipping scum tbh

[gigabyteTroubadour]

First if you know I'm going to question why you're voting me why you didn't answer that in the first place?

It's not just you, I'm actually a bit more interested in how everyone else responds to this

which is why i can't answer this or 4 at the second. mostly interested in schadd_ and matt's thoughts on your slot, and rakkar too.

POE stands for process of elimination, i'm assuming the rest is for creature

i do agree that the claim is suicide though but again i'm assuming that's for creature

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Mod

I thought we were voting Shade, not schadd_

this yeah

[gigabyteTroubadour]

It'd be funny if three more players decided to vote Shade too.

as effective as lolhammers are at killing scum this game would die with a lolhammer imo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Gigabyte was all paranoid earlier but switched to defending me?

??

i'm never paranoid in mafia when i'm town but i know what you mean kind of

i just said that what i've seen from you in this game was within your scumrange, but after i pointed that out your reaction was obvtown

[gigabyteTroubadour]

which is why i can't answer this or 4 at the second. mostly interested in schadd_ and matt's thoughts on your slot, and rakkar too.

actually throw TB in this group too

post or perish (i say voting for the person out of the most active most likely to flip scum )

well now that's not true. people forget about these things all the time.

i kind of hope he remembers, i saw him post elsewhere just a few minutes ago (note that this is allowed within the on-going games discussion, you just can't discuss WHAT has/hasn't been posted in that game. so i can't tell you guys if i see him prodging or wallposting or whatever, just that he is posting)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

For a while it was (which i got from vedith)

i think i got this from lycanfire

[gigabyteTroubadour]

responding to matt rn but i keep seeing these in my pedits and i'm not really following the thought process here

Why make a bunch of lists? I think you're crossing off the right people if you're going Creature style but i don't get the difference between 300 and 301

[gigabyteTroubadour]

basically I think Shade looks the worst from a TB townflip, while his questions were good (the ones you quoted I did like), I felt they were more like... questions asking about the game itself rather than questions to find motivation? He seems really hyperfocused on TB to me but his thought process/what questions he comes up with doesn't seem to follow that mindset

@Raskolnikov why you tried to put him in L1 if you didn't want him to claim?

GAYreenHamster was kinda opportunistic there as well but they didn't vote.

Thinkbig is not a newbie so if its known that people must claim after an intent on MS, him claiming there is actually scummy.

just seems like he's trying to parse things that are scummy, but the fact that collectively they don't seem to mesh right to me. He could argue it's TB/GAYreen from this, but the question to Rask reads in a way where he wants to find it suspicious so that angle doesn't make too much sense.

it implies scum mindset because he (at least where i stand in reads) can't be scum with TB and knows he flips town if he's scum, so this looks like he's setting up the right direction to push after the flip.

{TB, Shade, rakkar} probably contains both scum, but TB/Shade are unlikely partners. in theory rakkar is the right lynch, but I figured voting for the towniest of the three would

pedit: damn it rasko i wanted to point it out

also creature it's open 651

post or perish (i say voting for the person out of the most active most likely to flip scum )

I don't really follow what you are saying here. Aren't the more active players more likely to be town, because contributing as town as a direct positive correlation to our goal? And aren't the players that are lurking, and not contributing much more likely to be scum, because they don't want to help the town figure out the puzzle? (sorry for my previous post, but I tried to post this 3 times and it wasn't going through!)

Mostly, yeah, but scum also care about survival, and to do that they need to look town. I think Shade is capable of at least getting close.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

but there's the fact

EBWOP

Watch out with who's just inflating their post count.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

would

*get the right reactions to see if i'm actually right about this. don't think it's too early to say this

lmfao i'm really tired

hmmm

[gigabyteTroubadour]

tb ya killin' me here dude

[gigabyteTroubadour]

dunno how much consolidation it is but i get reads really quickly sometimes

here's another newbie where i was pretty spot-on with my initial townreads (at least i'd like to think). i did play this one differently but real life circumstances affecting my mood and yadda yadda yadda

plus i felt like i was being too in-your-face with the newbies

i would like to hear about shade's non-linear character progression though

also lynching me for that reason isn't good play btw because i have no idea if my view of the gamestate is actually valid when we get only 1 ml before lylo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

giga how do you interpret gayreen willingness to put think to l-1 without comment?

that and not that much info in general (though still more than think/rak) makes me not feel safe clearing him just yet

felt like newbie sheeping the experienced players which is obviously bad play but the nonchalantness makes me think of PS! meta

like

usually people just sit around with their hands under their laps and wait for the loudest/most experienced person to decide which lurker to arbitrarily lynch (or for another loud townie to call the loud townie scum)

so i'm going to call it NAI for the most part

plus i think he's played enough games to know that voting for no reason is considered scummy and he'd want to keep the towncred he got from pointing out schadd_'s "soft" if he were actually scum here

and there's also the fact he didn't suspect me for having reads too quickly which was also part of what got me ml'd in our last game together (and our only game in recent memory tbh)

so yeah it's mostly a meta read

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@GBT, rask: how many games have you played?

9 completed games if my count is correct (mostly losses, i think 3 wins total? 1 should have been a win and another is a win i didn't deserve in the slightest due to basically coasting the entire game due to irl circumstances), 1 ongoing i replaced out of due to the same rl circumstances impacting my play severely, and 3 ongoings including this one. i also follow almost every single game and try to bs reads too so i can say that's experience

together we have 0 games (that should show in how one-sided our interactions are together)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ooh!

2. i like the people at dominion forum but part of the fun of mafia is making character judgments about people you don't know
3. thus far, i have been mafia twice and town once. at this point, i was happy to get town just because of that, but i also like town more because knowing everything is boring
4. i like target-investigative roles, the example here being tracker

UNVOTE: gigabyteTroubador, VOTE: ThinkBig

Granted, considering your point on the newbie claiming the PR they might have gotten, he could be Tracker if he decided to soft the role in that way

i take this post as a nice big towntell tbh

maybe not as big as a tell that can be statistically be proven to be bulletproof (creature) but this is still town

[gigabyteTroubadour]

about how many games you and gayreen played on that other site?

sadly this is a question i can't really answer

the one game i keep referencing just was memorable because i got into a huge argument with the other town players about my play

but since it's an IRC games aren't stored the way they are here and i've been on-and-off of that site for like 3 years

GAYreen is a regular so i see him frequently there enough. not sure how long he's been a member though

sorry this is really arbitrary but this is the best i can answer

[gigabyteTroubadour]

the answer obviously though is "definitely more than one"

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i don't think polite or happy-go-lucky or artificially nice-feeling really suit me but i'll take it

but the last bit is definitely how i usually feel yeah

i kinda cried when EP (who was scum, what a shocker tbh in retrospect) suspected me for like no reason in PP's mini

[gigabyteTroubadour]

wait weren't you on EM with like maria and transcend and stuff too

the avatar thing

nah

we just bonded really quickly over open 646 (where i actually mention disliking EM)

l m a o

[gigabyteTroubadour]

we just bonded really quickly over open 646 (where i actually mention disliking EM)

Subject: Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

yeah em's community seems kinda toxic idk... not rly somewhere i want to associate w/ and play frequently. i like f2f mafia for a fast paced game

i like here a lot. but good to know

just so you don't have to sift through like 400 posts

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I like the part where the wordcloud forms a table lamp

it was sUPPOSED TO BE A HAMMER (did you see the second one )

and yeah i am very easy and enjoyable to mess with

house and human sequencer call me giggles for a reason

[gigabyteTroubadour]

and yeah i am very easy and enjoyable to mess with

ooh
how to do?

just go at it naturally i guess?

honestly though if i don't know you're messing with me it makes it better so like telling you wouldn't exactly help here

tb why haven't you posted anything this is worrying

[gigabyteTroubadour]

actually i kind of just made a really weird assumption so i'm going to resolve it

rask why aren't you townreading me? or at least strong enough to cross out like schadd_ or matt (creature i'd add in too but he's basically conftown tbh)

i assumed you just aren't really familiar with me and i'm not a newbie so i'm not as likely to tell as transparently but i'm worse at this then i let on sometimes

[gigabyteTroubadour]

tb

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: ThinkBig

post or perish shade wagon stopped being interesting and didnt get scummy reactions optimal play regardless of aligment yadda yadda yadda

[gigabyteTroubadour]

L-2 btw

[gigabyteTroubadour]

bored at this gamestate so readlist

{Creature} - Statistically provable conftown dont lynch this slot ever
{Rask, GAYreen} - Strong town because meta/stuff i can look into and back up
{schadd_, matt} - also strong town but are newbies i don't know so the info here is just from the game
{Shade} - Probably flips town but like what are the odds town just recognizes itself within 10 pages and forms a townbloc of 7?? paranoia nullread at worst and i'm not even that paranoid of a player usually this gamestate is just weird af
{rakkar} - disengaged two posts, everyone else is significantly townier or at least attempted to advance the game, gonna trust rask's tell. nullscum but that's generous
{tb} - ok like i get being busy and being in four games at once can be time consuming but this is a newbie game yknow... i feel like it should be a priority. i dont want to be mean but at this point it feels deliberate, if it's not i would do what i did when i fucked up a bunch of games by being useless like this and limit yourself to 2 at the very most. that includes /ins too, make sure you're never in more than 2 at once. if you're scum your play is fine because you not posting is giving the thread a derth of info at sometimes that can passively break a townbloc but like???

@newbies, if it's actually rakkar/TB and none of you have rused me (i love that word lmao) i would suggest taking on the Open queue, generally that one and Opens are more newbie friendly. you guys seem like you have a lot of potential regardless of alignment so i feel like you were cheated out of a challenging game but i think besides unfamiliarity with site culture you could probably handle a non-newbie

if that game gets too slow i wouldn't in for a second Open or normal though, go for a micro or replace into a decent newbie game. i would probably try out only one non-newbie game at a time just so you can see how much you can handle on your plate at a time

[gigabyteTroubadour]

*generally that one and normals

sorry ebwop

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah i got my vote on skull emoji

btw no clue where GAYreen went, saw him online yesterday to get an avatar but no posts. still think he's town considering the gamestate gives town some excuse to not post (nothing new to comment on yadda yadda yadda)

rakkar likely will be replaced anyway

imo the best way to get someone back into the game is to put them at L-1 and then vote them another time

if that person actually visits the site frequently yeah

doesn't really work on habitual flakers or newbie flakers

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also if any of you are open to hydra with me hmu with a good name (i'm ass at names tbh) and we can queue in the open or micro queue

hydras are where two or more people share an account and slot in a game. they're not allowed in normals and some mods don't like them but i'm a huge fan

the idea is to help improve playstyle by learning from players different or opposite to you but i enjoy just having someone who knows my motivations to bounce ideas off of (plus depending on the game i can hyperpost somewhere out of the thread and let it breathe you know)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

not sure if Human Sequencer and i are doing it soon but yeah i'd be down for it

still in this game, a micro, and a large tho so not now

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah i feel

any opinions diverging from rakkar/tb scum?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i hate this game

you all deserve better tbh

((unless it's actually not just rakkar/tb then we're just idiots D1))

tb when do you want to post here

[gigabyteTroubadour]

actually i kind of just made a really weird assumption so i'm going to resolve it

rask why aren't you townreading me? or at least strong enough to cross out like schadd_ or matt (creature i'd add in too but he's basically conftown tbh)

i assumed you just aren't really familiar with me and i'm not a newbie so i'm not as likely to tell as transparently but i'm worse at this then i let on sometimes

also rask can you get back to me on this or just refuse to answer it (not ignore it)

ty

[gigabyteTroubadour]

how is creature practically conftown

How to read Creature in a micro with almost perfect accuracy:

• 1. Click the activity overview.
  2. Find the value of (Creature's posts) / (Total posts in thread - 3)
  3. If the value is around 17 or higher you can be pretty sure this is town Creature. Disregard this if Creature has been called out for not being engaged in the game or lurking.
  • Disregard this if Creature has been called out for not being engaged in the game or lurking. Instead...
    1. If his reads are generally "townread the loudest people, scumread lurking town" he's probably scum.
    2. If he doesn't have that many crossed out lists he's probably scum.
    3. If he's not doing anything resembling scumhunting he's probably scum.
    4. If he's deliberately inflating his post count with ???? that isn't weird Creature gamesolving ???? (e.g., seeing if scumreads make sense as a scumteam by looking to see how close they are together in the playerlist) he's probably scum.
    5. If his tone feels monotonous and just more indifferent than normal he's probably scum
  4. If the value is below 10 he's almost definitely scum (but there's a small chance everyone else is just louder).

the numerical stuff also isn't pulled out of my ass i can show you the math if you want

plus the proof that the amount he posts is actually AI for him

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also towntells include:

• paranoia and constantly assuming the worst
  
  aggressive brute-forcing of game by just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks
  
  somehow being lynchbait despite being obvious town (people just seem to forget scum creature exists)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also pretend that says .17 and .1

thinking in percentages working in probability zzzz

[gigabyteTroubadour]

actually that makes sense and i kind kind of vibe with that yeah. i guess i kind of saw that when I pointed out how his questions really don't follow a thought process that ThinkBig is scum, but I can reasonably see town considering multiple angles as well as scum knowing what to push next :/

your nullreads start early tho tbh but i get it

gonna hit up your games probably if i have free time over the week

hopefully i sleep now

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i have reason to believe that TB actually forgot about this game i have to be cagey about but hopefully this remedies it a bit:

@Mod, requesting an informal prod or poke for TB considering his V/LA but also the slowed gamestate without his posting? If you don't those that that's cool too

< :/

@Matt, if Rakkar's replacement reads as obvious town, who do you think would be the best lynch? Shade is the only person i can marginally think flips scum if not TB/Rakkar but then TB/Shade doesn't make much sense to me.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

the "just lynched and left" is definitely a thing from chatroom mafia but now that you pointed it out, wouldn't the fact that this is a longer game translate and make that not as scummy as it woukd be in a different medium?

i'm assuming he doesn't have differing reads from the general consensus since i asked him earlier

not that that's townie, just that i get why he wouldn't post a readlist

The logic behind him being a TB partner I can follow, so in a world where TB is scum but then we lynch the rakkar slot after and it's town, I would be giving GAYreen less town credit.

kinda hate delving too deep into theoreticals D1, but if we're not going to get AI (alignment indicative) content from TB or rakkar's slot i'm not sure what else to do

pedit: i mean his reasoning for asking to L-1 TB was basically just "for pressure" and did feel sheepy, same with his release of his schadd_ read so I got where you came from with that point

[gigabyteTroubadour]

by being in like 10 ongoing games and maybe not wanting to face that/not liking scum probably

also pedit: gotcha, just assumed not crossed out equaled null/scumread... was the rqs the only time i mentioned me liking scum? i've posted so much here and in other games recently i kind of forgot what i said and where

[gigabyteTroubadour]

too deep for 2 am

approve of teasing Creature though i'm proud of my page 1 post for him

sleeping for real now :dea:

[gigabyteTroubadour]

sounds good

gamestate is slow af so it shouldnt be tough

mostly my shitposting tbh

[gigabyteTroubadour]

finally

also matt i'm waking up lmfao

i got like 1 hour of sleep but w/e

(early game I don't like to give reasoning for most of my actuons because it helps develop my reads)

are you asking me to explain this? assuming since you read up to pg. 3

if so like i get where you're coming from in that it's pro-town to explain reasoning for votes, but when it's page 3 in a newbie i want to see how the new players engage with my presumed reasoning and start analyzing. If I just straight up explain shit then it ruins any sort of potential to get a 100% original viewpoint from a slot because they can just say "yeah i feel the same way".

you'd have a point in a normal game i feel but here it's different

game is a slowburn because 2 slots haven't given much content and everyone townreads each other. glad to see the kumbaya breaking up tho because i signed up for a mafia game

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also which games have you read of mine

because then you'd know that that's something I believe

[gigabyteTroubadour]

2: post 89????? "i should know, i caught my first scum with RQS" ???????? wtf? ok then why would oyu shut it down if its a good noob-friendly way of catching scum? WORST CASE SCENARIO: you that concerned with q no. 4? then say "EXCEPT DONT ANSWER THIS K". this is silly and ridiculous and omg im gonna aneurysm over here.

TB's questions aren't going to catch scum.

Good RQS asks questions that can be answered with more than one word because you want to establish a baseline for how someone responds to a critical thinking question, or a question that's going to incite a reaction. "Are you scum?" works wonders, always. As does "What are your feelings on policy lynches?". Force people to take sides. the good shit

also noticing a lot of strong townreads from gbT but v weak scumreads, which is a tactic i employ as scum. you have perfect knowledge and you want to hide that, but you also have to look like youre contributing. this guy gets 4 perfect townreads by p4, but doesnt have any good scumreads? yeah no not buying that garbage.

I don't.

You buddy with EVERYONE as scum, you leave yourself with no room if you're put into a position where a read doesn't make sense.

Like I'm townreading the fuck out of your walls right now.

POE reads? TB/Shade. No fucking way does that make sense. I'm forced to re-evaulate and I can tell you right now I'm not putting up with that shit as scum.

Scum doesn't decide to create a townbloc of 6 people, especially when a replacement is obviously incoming, because if it's actually accurate sans them they give themselves no flexibility to adapt. BAM, suddenly obvtown replacement joins in? What the fuck is scum!Giga who got everyone to hold hands and smile going to do now that their scumteam from their POV makes no sense? It's shit play and while I'm not a good player I'm not ass.

speaking of which why tf is gbT townleader here at all? BECAUSE TALKATIVE SCUM????? hes not contibuting anything but townreads and post 108 "closest thing i have to a scumread" (tb)??? pls you got it down to 3 possibles and youre still gonna say you only suspect one even with the lurkin? at the very least here youd recognize that one of the two lurks is more likely to be town than not and that youre vibing with someone you shouldnt be (oh wait youre scum nvm lol)

see this is the shit showtime was arguing basically (this reads townier but)

the reads I form are going to be the reads i form. townreads are taking stances and yadda yadda yadda you know what I'm going to argue since you probably read my walls. I see something that reads to me as town I'm calling it town, 2 lurkers in a newbie game is realistic considering the point of the newbie queue is to A: educate new players, and B: keep flakers out of the main queues. paranoia isn't a thing i do as town because that does nothing but disrupt the townbloc. be smart about what you townread but don't just like scumread things because it's too easy you know?

i deal with this bs every time i roll town and 1759 was like the only time i didn't get flak for it by town tbh

115 seems like a silly thing to scumread for that reason but ok ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[gigabyteTroubadour]

tb

^is this townread associative off of me or based on play?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I don't think it's GAYreen/TB btw

gayreen is still obvtown

[gigabyteTroubadour]

1: noobtown seems to lean toward the paranoid side. theyd see q4 and dive deep into the ocean of WIFOM madness and decide its best to just pick a role that isnt theirs, or they wouldnt care and the mafia learns absolutely nothing even despite that. certainly no ones gonna ask about vt, how the hell can this be rolefishin since everybody gonna pick a p common role most likely but no ones gonna say vt? scumscuse for anti-town behavior imo

depends on the player tbh, someone like me would definitely answer it wrong

i'll admit that it's an argument i parroted from past pushes on rqss but like i agree with it fundamentally

still don't really think it's a good rqs question

[gigabyteTroubadour]

which one was bad?

the first one

usually when that's asked it has PR fishing intentions. i don't really see any other purpose of asking it besides fluff (which is generally not something i scumread but it's not good imo) or pr fishing.

wait fuck i forgot about that lmfao

gamma why were you trying to start a page 7 rqs?? like 2 and 3 are actually OK questions for an RQS (1 is a terrible rqs question and you should know that ://) but like what are you expecting to achieve with that?

I like to wait so everyone can get to know each other because I try to ask a trust-based question (question 3, about who you think is good as town)

no but like

what sort of motive did you have with those questions? what were you expecting?

and usually any time beyond page 1 is too late for an rqs... if you just want to ask the question ask it as a question

^ last time i criticized an rqs i felt was bad

(they flipped town but still, case can be right, flip wrong)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

final thoughts before life^tm

i'd like to know more about your rask read

cass, cassie?

avatar would be nice btw pretty sure you're not going to flake

not a he

~<3

[gigabyteTroubadour]

gbT; why didn't you find a way to use those questions to get info, or at least continue with a diff RQS set?

you admit its a good idea shortly after killing it dead, but do nothing to replace it? no, sorry, i dont buy it. you could have kept it going in the background while developing good reads, but you jumped on TB and stopped that train cold. i want a good answer. im halfway leaning toward starting a new q&a session here and seeing how you react lol

eh, RQS worked once for me but it's a gimmick. RVS is better now that my reads are better (i mean here they're shit apparently). Starting the game off by posturing a scumread I was hoping would be a good replacement since RVS is pointless if you can make a serious vote. Like, I was pretty intent on killing TB right then and there and I wanted that to show in my posts, still feel the bloodlust but now it's kinda gone from time. I was hoping that town would react by calling my push shit and voting me or something or see what i saw. instead people called it boring so?? sometimes shit doesn't work out

still i think "HEY GUYS GUESS WHY I'M SCUMREADING TB VOTE WITH ME" is a way more interesting way to start a game than TB's RQS

What sort of info would you expect for me to get from TB's questions, anyway? People almost always say where they're from sitewise or how much experience or whatever regardless. they don't seem like helpful questions to me

lmfao go ahead on RQS 2.0

i'll get back to you on rask because like your posting was literally the controversy i've been dying for so i'm probably going to reread every slot besides creature and gayreen from this

from memory i don't think the L-1 vote was that weird but honestly experiencing this game in real-time was really surreal

((((((((((also thanks for putting a fuckton of pressure on me regardless of alignment to not disappoint someone who watched one of my games and looks up to me apparently?? ))))))))))))

~<3

and about misgendering it's cool and happens all the time, just don't do it deliberately

she is fine too for me btw but you only get one choice so

[gigabyteTroubadour]

RVS is better now that my reads are better (i mean here they're shit apparently).

this sentence doesn't make sense so let me try to break it down

like when i was a raw newb i probably couldn't form reads during rvs

now i generally read people from like 1 post, especially in rvs

raw newbs can work with RQS because obvious material

RVS gets the game moving faster and RQS annoys people outside of the newbie queue

[gigabyteTroubadour]

cassie final final thoughts because i'm addicted to mafiascum and don't know when i want to log off

if you scumread me you have to picture me laughing my ass off the entire game and every time someone says something way off base

legit want to know if that mental image works with your read on me

also forgot to say that i enjoy being the seventh circle of hell itself

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hey before i answer casserole (i like this better than cassie), hi Grey! ♡♡

I don't like fluff too much, and try to avoid it when possible, which is why my post count is so much lower than many others.

also with -grey- in here we're going to have a fuckton of active spammy posters so get excited

regarding info to get from those questions:

first off, it sets up a baseline and makes sure you know everyones experience level. id have followed it up with an experienced-folks-only question set involving who theyve played with before and what pointers they can give about town/scum metas, but thats just because i would want to level that playing field information-wise -- ses and ic have an advantage in knowing some of their counterparts, noobs are just about completely unaware of everyone.

secondly (less important from a game perspective, more important from a learning perspective) it gives everyone an opening to ask about roles they dont understand to the ic without unintentionally (even unknowingly) softing themselves as that role -- because EVERYONE is doing it and MOST are going to be vt or scum! that gives noobs a leg up that the experienced folks already have, without shifting balance. important later, though not immediately.

third, you can always jump on random peoples questions and request followups. avoid q4 and you avoid looking like youre rolefishing. and by doing this you can grab onto anyones questions list as a thread to tug at if you want more info but dont want to be tugging on the latest discussion threads for whatever reason (cornering a suspicious player into a position, etc). it gives town a powerful tool by forcing everyone to put a bit of themselves up front at the start in a way that rvs doesnt quite do. furthermore, while you cant ask a latecomer to engage in rvs for tells, you can ask them to fill out the standard q&a sheet everyone else has got to drag info out of them. its easy to dodge a "oh whats your reads list" at this stage just coming in, too lazy to do a deep re-read or w/e you want really. it corners the lurkers into making a move that people can latch onto later if necessary, which (as you saw with my predecessor lol) isnt as easy without it.

ill seriously consider rqs 2.0 still, but im gonna wait for your reaction to this post.

p-edit: im ok with shade, but id WAY prefer schadd_, gbT or rask. moreso schadd_ or rask atm, im getting info out of gbT!

and yeah @gbT you totally strike me that way, imo were actually quite a lot alike haha

With the first point, you can usually get a good handle of someone's experience just from their posting. Schadd_ reads like he's played one or two games, you read about as experienced as me, while matt seems like a raw newb for example. It's an OK question I guess if you can't figure out how experienced players are based on how they play, but at least one of the SEs or Creautre should be able to say something.... Wrt to the meta question, it's an interesting point but we even saw in this game that it came up naturally in the discussion with Creature. After all, this is a social game, so if people already know each other it's going to come up in conversation. Plus, I think not forcing it into the discussion into a standardized questionnaire can give players the opportunity to see who actually makes the engagement to understand meta they are unfamiliar with (or even learn how to meta, since there's kind of a learning curve in getting that it's not "Player X does Y in Z situation" but "This is Player X's personality"). I'm reminded of the game where I was scum with one of my IRL friends and when that point came up, one of the townies wanted to know more about our relationship and use it as a baseline to read us due to a past game where the scumteam knew each other irl. That's obvtown as fuck.

The second point is actually a good counter-argument. I'll admit I've only heard one side of the argument and I agreed with it. Don't really have much else to say here other than I'll try to be more open-minded and let future experience decide how I feel about that question.

If I'm understanding the third point correctly, you believe the better play for me was to call out TB for question 4 and suggest something else? I've never really been a fan of RQS (again, it's a gimmick, I did it once, I did it enough times) so that isn't really going to come intuitively to me. I do like your point on how it's something you can force players to engage on, but wouldn't the same player who dodges the readlist question also just answer the RQS and nothing else? And the rest of the table engage with said lurker the same way (via rope or pressure)? Obviously not answering anything but an RQS isn't extremely alignment indicative for newer players as you would know from your predecessor, but still... I guess if you make the RQS more game-relevant (so like a generalized questionnaire about the gamestate?) then using it would be a lot more helpful/AI. If another newbie were to replace in (grey isn't a newb so), I could see asking a player to read for specific things while catching up or giving basic info about themselves (since once there's AI content it is a bit unnatural to just give that away since people want to jump straight into the game most of the time).

basically if it's not clear from what i wrote here i'd be down for RQS 2.0 if it weren't an RQS. but then i feel like that defeats the purpose of asking it at this point of the game since we have enough to go off of to ask specific questions to specific people, which gets more info than something generalized.

i'm like 90% sure i answered this the scum way
but honestly the fact that you seem to have an elaborate idea of how i should be answering this already thought up of is so town lmfao, i just hate disappointing people

also i saw during pedits...

@Matt, when did Rask become your top scumread??

going to read up now

[gigabyteTroubadour]

still writing my catchup but don't cc rask's tracker claim today if it's fake

already explained my feelings on this earlier but just reminding everyone

[gigabyteTroubadour]

im on board with most of these, but imo post 53 schadd_ is pure evil, its a quiet way of asking "is it a good play to off the IC for mafia?" like, the best you could say is NAI, to me it comes off as ultrascum

i asked a similar question when i was town in my newbie game, i don't see it as AI honestly

the idea of an IC is kind of strange at first but having one around is like training wheels. by the time D1 is over you don't really need the IC any more and the SEs can usually pull their weight

is that town i'm not sure honestly

The bigger your personal townblock is, the less you'll accept other townreads.

yeah basically but

usually in the early-game if i see something that pings me as town/genuine i just call it town, if I find something scummy i call it scummy. if that ends up in having more of one type of read then i re-evaulate

didn't really get a vibe one way or the other from 225. i realize there's the temptation to call it a townslip but it's kind of a cheap townslip to intentionally go for for newbiescum, but i don't get the vibe that means he legitimately thought that the scumteam had to have an experienced player and a newbie. I like casserole's read on it that it could be a newbie frustrated that they rolled scum with another newbie but that shows how many angles you can really come up with. it's just a meh post that doesn't ping me.

Creature, what do you mean by "harsh" in 437?

Casserole, if the general vibe is to follow me, wouldn't that insinuate I'm town? Like I suppose I could just be really influential scum, but the table seems decently smart here and capable of coming up with their own opinions. I don't see "follow giga" happening if they're my scumbuddies (i'd tell them in the PT to try to think of original thoughts and that's backed up by my last game), nor do I see it happening if they're all town and I'm scum. I'm going to look more into this once I finish catching up.

dont really agree with casserole's point on rask not crossing himself out but it is kind of funny.

creature what about my meta seems different here in 463? significant changes in posting style aren't AI for me and my town and scum games are constantly going to look and feel different depending on my mood.

honestly what irks me most about rask is that he doesn't townread GAYreen but I don't know how much of that is playstyle vs. AI

yeah 471 i get the rask scumreads now. still feel a good deal of emotional engagement so i'm probably just going to straight up reread the game but i think i'm only comfortable with {Grey, Casserole, Creature} townreads now, maybe schadd_ too.

472 is a good vote though...

can't really tell what rask is thinking about casserole page 20.

489 is a good post imo. can go into detail but i'm not really vibing with cassie's scumread of this slot

dw 492 should always be implicit

@Shade, you can always declare a V/LA for a couple of days if something like that comes up again (or you see this)! anyway, I'm not exactly following what you find scummy about GAYreen's reaction to the claim, could you go more in-depth?

don't really think the reasons cassie brings up 497 to sr mbg aren't alignment indicative, like i don't consider him a lurker and i felt his early posts had a genuine tone to them but i'm probably rereading that slot too

499 are my thoughts exactly. @TB, The best way to deal with pressure is to just contribute, trust town to find town. if you can't keep up mentally then i would definitely suggest replacing out, i've done it before in a similar situation and i won't think anything ill of you if you do.

i can vibe with 503 at this point, though i don't really feel as strongly about the scumreads (i never do tbh) so i'd say they're all about equal.

{S}Schadd
{S}Cassielle

i would definitely like to hear more about these...

on 526, creature getting that "conftown" read was more from my understanding of his meta. vibe with the TB read. GAYreen read seems a bit shallow/simplistic but i can see it coming from town. actually had the same thought on casserole (too many scumreads) but like conviction wise and just how much she needed to break up the kumbaya it's obvtown. worth noting that in a tb/rakkar world that doing what cassie is doing is TECHNICALLY the optimal play i highly highly highly doubt that that's what she's trying to do.

i still think matt's town tbh

yeah my posts are shit lol cassie

don't think 536 was a scummy answer, calling the whole thing a circlejerk i think did answer the question but

agreeing with 545 and that's basically why i've been townreading mbg. same with 563.

((just saw the tracker claim here))

actually i still need to sit and think about the claim and it kind of compromised my catch up (i just woke up like an hour ago and i have to go back to sleep so uh)

i'll just post this now

Fuck you too. "Top townread" and you don't defend me at all, don't see you anywhere and you appear the moment I claim.

dude you guys are posting like crazy and you've never been my top townread??

like give me some time to catch up i just woke up

[gigabyteTroubadour]

like earlier i was going to say that i was starting to vibe with rask scumreads but the fact he's basically been echoing my thoughts a lot feels town so??

{Creature} - obvtown
{Cassie, Grey} - town
{schadd} - leantown
{mbg} - nulltown
{TB, Shade} - lynchpool

is where i'm at now i guess but i need to review

rask is not on there because of the claim

[gigabyteTroubadour]

TB/shade doesn't make sense so obviously something's up

[gigabyteTroubadour]

actually cassie do you agree with me that TB/Shade is unlikely?

honestly i still feel like i'm in a kumbaya state and i'm not liking it but with the tracker claim no one else reads as scummy to me

probably starting by rereading mbg but

[gigabyteTroubadour]

so itd be tb + mbg, i do not foresee a shade + mbg pairing

I'm rereading the MBG ISO and I'll be giving my thoughts on it in a bit

still really have to do mental gymnastics to scumread it tbh

Grey, can you go a bit more into your scumread on him?

and my scumfeels on tb are weaker than they are on shade to a small extent ftr, so i really dont vibe with a tb+mbg team even tho its the best non-rask option

tb just needs to explain his thoughts which is why i'm fine keeping my vote on him (post or perish yadda yadda yadda), i do think he could be scummy but like?? his ISO is null and there isn't really substance that can differentiate it from prodging town vs. scum

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i do think he could be scum

ebwop

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Rakkar

Just because I wanted to vote someone and also because Rakkar is scum.

like this felt really natural and i actually liked the vote at the time (still do but rakkar slot is obvtown)

i think newbie scum who at least have the knowledge of how-to-town would try to overexplain their reads but 185 isn't that at all. the admission he has no idea why he's townreading me is just such a newbtown thing, things like that and admitting to nullreading (as if it's bad to not know or being overly nonchalant with it) are big newbtown tells for me.

239 i'm also townreading pretty hard, i would expect scum to say this is a more mocking way ("gg ez"), overplay the feeling of it being too easy, or just state the feeling ("i'm confused, it can't be this easy"). "So did we win?" has this sense of I guess honesty about the game being too easy that pings me as town.

not sure why i agreed with 294 easily and it seems like analysis i maybe gave too much credit for but like when a townread says something like this i do tend to sheep it. it has stopped me from strongarming scum D1 (cassie read 1759, so she knows I'm referring to Nobita). can see this as scummy.

307 gives me those honest-vibes too, like newbscum would know for a fact that scum has to look town because they're doing so. since i find that newbscum are more likely to trip up on the inside knowledge they have, i feel like matt just wouldn't ask about this as scum.

367's unvote also feels newbtownie. As scum, he's going to push for the scumteam being rakkar/TB narrative at this point in the gamestate. Why waffle here as scum? It's just awkward and doesn't really help him.

369 I can see as scummy, discrediting the GAYreen slot that I do think is easy pickings for shallow scumreads and an opening in the parts of the townbloc that are more townread (can't attack creature, attacking me is too obvious and hard to do without blowback). But when the rest of the ISO says town this is just as likely just newbie analysis.

transition to rask scumread was awkward since there wasn't much shown in the thread that lead up to it tbh so i can see this being sheeping (the reasoning is original though even if it's not strong), makes more sense as "well the consensus is now here, where do I stand on this?" and re-evaulating.

the catch about cassie scumreading 4 slots i thought was also something town is more likely to call out, newbie scum would just assume that having a decent amount of suspects is good (this does assume cassie!town). the way he talked about it also didn't look like he was throwing shit at a townread either.

like overall it's a genuine ISO, there are some awkward points in it but reading it as weak analysis i think makes more sense than tactical if that makes sense

wrt my scumread on mbg: scrutinize his readlists fromstart to finish and check vote patterns too. sheepy from start to finish, rapidchange in reads between first 2 lists, but backs off a wagon with a strong general scumread (that he agrees on) on it at l-1. could be noob cold feet, but still leans scum imo

I'm trying to remember what my newbie cold feet was like when our first wagon hit L-1

I remember taking more of a stronger stance and almost 180ing on my reads? hm.

mbg strikes me as more cautious and gentle though

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah 549 was town too

[gigabyteTroubadour]

-grey-? waaaay too towny. aggressive af and not in the least bit afraid to go out on a limb to find them scums

i mean

if grey is who i think he is (if he is an alt i'm keeping him under wraps sorry)

i think it's totally within his scumrange to do that

my read on him is entirely from GAYreen

[gigabyteTroubadour]

im stuck on rask. someone give to me guidance here, i have never been so sure of scum and yet had someone claim like that

intuition says lynch the partner.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

that's what they all say ♡♡

tb's at L-2 btw

[gigabyteTroubadour]

as mbg said, 8 days of discussion left, lets make use of it! and i really, really want to hear him talk about that shallow af polished af read list

yeah dw, derphammering is a scumclaim when we're constantly talking about it.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Okay, my townread on GAYreen was a mistake.

Oh nice, another claim that came out without me wanting one.

VOTE: -Grey-

Creature

What are you doing?
Where did this read come from?
Why is your townread on GAYreen a mistake?
Did I get the formatting for a Creature-asks-a-question-to-a-specific-person post right?


teasing aside what is this

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah i was hoping you could explain a bit more because i don't see it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i kind of just need to put my head against a wall and meditate. not sure what i believe in any more

going to catch up starting from post 659 in a bit but like (posting here so i know what post i left off at)

this game is really fucking surreal. feel like this table is going to bond together from it in the end.

rask is a bad lynch unless the PR wants to CC. honestly it should be up to them, as long as they don't wait until LYLO or MYLO (when we have no mislynches left).

matt bringing up the meta gives him huge townpoints btw, I knew of it but I don't read it as AI because tracker is the safest claim whether you're a town PR or scum. i really cannot see newbie scum deciding to dig up dirt on Rask like that to discredit him, it's town.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Casielle

rc i would have appreciated if you had let me catch up before hammering but whatever

clusterfucky read progression on reread looks more like trying to find ways of dismantling the townbloc. i gave her too easy a townread imo

unshakable townreads on creature, mbg, -grey- and schadd_ in order of confidence but they're all pretty unshakable.

921 was a scum hammer but i'll let rc bus casie so we can 1v1 tomorrow since apparently cassie/gigabyte makes sense as a team

game's basically solved

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

it's cassie/rc but either vote is fine

[gigabyteTroubadour]

btw now the game's over this is what creature looks like as scum

night and fucking day

[gigabyteTroubadour]

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i never got the supernatural hype tbh

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah my claim's compatible with yours

[gigabyteTroubadour]

rask i'm kind of bored is there anything you want me to comment on

you had basically radio silence from me for a day but like i don't really know what to say now since i ignored this game the whole night

That's a weird way of saying it

yeah i realize but if i say it any other way it can soft what i really am so

[gigabyteTroubadour]

?????????????

[gigabyteTroubadour]

do not "cc" me i haven't claimed nor softed shit

[gigabyteTroubadour]

rc i swear to god if i'm just having a really fucking awful game and 921 was actually a town post i really hate you right now

if you're scum you're fine and i still like you but????????????

[gigabyteTroubadour]

can we stop fucking talking about it oh my fucking god

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Code: Select all

[img]http://i.imgur.com/nBDesE7.jpg[/img]

^also bbcode for schadd_ since i'm like 100% he'd use this reaction picture too

[gigabyteTroubadour]

creature beat me to the pedit and i didn't feel like changing my vote

[gigabyteTroubadour]

do you think it's significant?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

My issue rn is that I don't see why scum Gigabyte busses in this situation rather than search out the PR if they targeted Raskol like they should have.

OK, so if you agree the optimal play is to shoot raskol is, then what the fuck is 921?

there was no shot of you getting nk'd, i don't think anyone on the TB wagon would have hammered schadd_, so???

it was a really fucking pointless hammer and when i saw it i assumed your next step would be to hardbus cassie, chain an easy ml on me, and then get a pretty easy 3-way

GBT is like 85% scum.

And what is the remaining 15% ?

Creature > Grey > MattBlack.

creature is obvious fucking town fuck off with that shit

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Get me to L-1 and we'll talk.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I thought ThinkBig was reasonably likely to be scum and I didn't want to risk you switching over.

i townread schadd_ but ok

VOTE: GBT

That's one.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I think it's really out of character for Grey to push Cass as hard as they did yesterday and to accept a compromise wagon.

i mean i would think he'd know to tone himself down by now :/

[gigabyteTroubadour]

where is grey anyway

he's on like 24/7

[gigabyteTroubadour]

we're at 3 right now

[gigabyteTroubadour]

UNVOTE:

I don't counterclaim Rask, but I would lake to make sure everyone confirms that.

^

creature unvoted

we're not ending the day just yet

[gigabyteTroubadour]

matt are you a notetaker?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'll explain more in-depth when I'm feeling better but it's a combination of townreading everyone harder and the fact that i think her constant switching of reads was finding the most convienent way to discredit the townbloc i had formed (starting with me, when no one bit then rask, then schadd_)

matt are you a notetaker?

Not sure what you mean exactly.

Do you take notes while you play? like in a word doc or notepad or something

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Do you take notes while you play? like in a word doc or notepad or something

No. Should I be taking notes?

nah

i just figured you were the type

i see you in the activity view a lot and you seem to respond slowly so i figured you did

i can't lol

anyway i asked because of that ^ and was about to say "guys mbw is conftown" but realized that train of thought made no sense unless like i actually knew

[gigabyteTroubadour]

if you really think that the way i shook up the gamestate was totally unnecessary, id like to see it in a post, clearly spelled out

to clarify...

do you mean regardless of alignment?

because i think it's

necessary

for you to do to play to your wincon, i just don't townread the way you did it any longer

I'd want to think that if cass was paired with anyone but a newbie she'd know enough about how counterclaims work to feel very ridiculous in her push. But I suppose that isn't an entirely safe assumption either.

cassie has offsite experience, it absolutely can be faked imo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Gigabyte top picks for scum?

cassie and rc still

cannot see any other options, grey possibly has rused me but this still reads like his towngame to me so i'm not considering that today

[gigabyteTroubadour]

trying to AI read rakkar seems kind of pointless i really don't get your line of thought here

[gigabyteTroubadour]

cassie i'm writing my response atm (i'm going to be functioning a lot slower than i did yesterDay so don't be surprised if i fall asleep while writing it but i am going to try)

but i wouldn't give GAYreen a pass for having experience on PS!

their meta is literal trash

if i were a decent player on their forum or in-game (although that's no one lol) maybe but if he looks newbie i'd call him newbie

i CAN see him flipping scum here don't get me wrong but i'd have to drink bleach before i even consider pushing that way before you and/or rc

[gigabyteTroubadour]

*if he were

[gigabyteTroubadour]

why did i do it the way that i did? well, why was the townblock so crystallized?

i'll answer the second bit first

Creature is a really fucking strong meta read - it's even mathematically provable. You agree with me here so we can leave this alone.

mbg i went and made that really big ISO post, i had to really stretch the content of his posts to see ANY scum motivation from it. at least from my experience i think people overestimate how scummy caution is for newbies, you just have to see where that caution is coming from. he struck me as someone who actually writes notes while playing which would have made me really sure about my townread on him if it were true but i still think he's town.

do you want me to write a huge wallpost on schadd_? i'm really sorry it's hard for me to do something like that but i can do so later. my townread of him though is basically for having really naturally timed reactions and just?? vibing? of everyone he's the mindset i Get the most but creature considering him as scum is making me feel like i missed something.

like his townread for me low-key telling everyone that i'm going to be posting differently for 1.5-2 weeks due to rl-circumstances^tm while also feeling paranoid about my radio silence (just his null read of me in general) feels EXACTLY how town should be looking at the game. i guess he feels like the model townposter to me?

pedit: schadd_ is townposting

rask is kind of similar but for a more experienced player it's less ai. but claimed tracker and all.

shade was the most meh of the group so i won't really put him there

for me these are well-justified reads^tm, i tried to be a wallposter when i was a newb (i guess i am still one?) but it takes way more energy and i usually just end up repeating myself because it's hard for me to articulate my thoughts? this feels more natural to me even if my thoughts in words seem more nebulous than they should be.

but yeah im really fucking confident that these are all town

like i skimmed your iso and i'm not really feeling your "yeah i'm going to call giga ultrascum so people sheep me when i barely pressure them BUT RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS I'M NOT GOING TO EXPLAIN WHY THEY ARE TOWN (why are they town). gonna pressure rask in the meanwhile and tunnel conftown (schadd_'s town btw so's gayreen) WAIT QUICK REVERSAL OF EVERYTHING grey's scum af and so is schadd_"

like i usually townread inconsistency that fucking obvious because hey town changes their viewpoint sometimes but??? it's approaching the point of caricature and you sticking to schadd_!scum when he's obvtowning is ???????? probably something you're sticking with because you got him at L-1 somehow

if you need more i can give it i guess but it's like 8 and i woke up at 4 for some reason i'm tired af
(don't feel bad or anything i play this game for fun)

casie can you just reread the game as if rask was town

Why's schadd_ is town again?

sounds like it's time for a wall post^tm

[gigabyteTroubadour]

like if "gee this person is suspecting slots i feel are obviously town" it feels like maaaaaybe they're trying to dismantle townreads on that slot

which is, you know

scummy

pedit: schadd_ is townposting

are you calling our town shit?

dude ok your posts are so fucking town idek why i drank the kool-aid of schadd_ maybe even being scum

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm just going to bed bye

Oh whoops, too soon.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'll do it w/e

UNVOTE:

also "accidentally" lmao

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also schadd i gave u the bbc in case you phone post so u dont have to upload to imgur but if it's not ur thing i feel

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah i just checked one last time

done for real now

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Is that because you're scum creature?

hey actually if this is not a sarcastic question

can you (and RC) give thoughts on my creature meta?

in no way, shape, or form does this read as a scumgame of creature

like after Bee Movie mafia i'm confident i can pick out scum!creature after 3-5 non-IC posts and creature's ISO still reads as a town!creature one

if i'm wrong i'd like to know why at least so i'm not giving a hard townread undeservedly

i realize that's one game but remember i skimmed through all of his micro games to make my RVS vote for that game so I'd like to think i have SOME familiarity with creature's personality

if this is scum!creature then he has significantly improved his ability to mimic his townplay and i'm honestly impressed

I don't see RC and Cass partnered together, even if RC has the fame of superbussing. Though, I feel Cass is the town and RC is the scum.

also creature if it's not casielle who would rc's theoretical partner be

mostly because i have at least some reason to think all of the other slots are town (rc included, if i squint really hard i can see how he might be town but his explanation for 921 still gives me flashbacks to my newbie so ???)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

this game honestly feels like a fever dream

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i brought it up early in the game where i caught him with it though and it still worked so idk

no offense to creature because i think highly of his townplay but i honestly don't think he's able to camouflage his scumplay even after his tells are directly pointed out

do you think the point though are wrong/not applicable?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

brb gonna actually read wave then

[gigabyteTroubadour]

there's a difference between saying "guys trust my read" and "tell me where i'm wrong" though

there's no point in telling someone to trust my read because that doesn't progress the gamestate at all

asking you to explain why your read is different actually does and is what i'm actually looking for

[gigabyteTroubadour]

speaking of grey

i'm kind of curious how he's actually reading me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

plus i kind of made it more obvious

there's a difference between saying "guys trust my read" and "tell me where i'm wrong" though

there's no point in telling someone to trust my read because that doesn't progress the gamestate at all

asking you to explain why your read is different actually does and is what i'm actually looking for

The answer to where you're wrong, assuming town, is that Creature knows exactly what you're looking for to townread him and did exactly that.

i mean fair point

but what about his play is scummy to you? this is where I'm trying to get this line of questioning to go

[gigabyteTroubadour]

aight cool

grey talk to me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

speaking of grey

i'm kind of curious how he's actually reading me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

speaking of grey

i'm kind of curious how he's actually reading me

With my EYES!

you're killing me here grey

lemme just rephrase this

do you think i'm casielle's partner? if casielle were to flip town how would that impact your town/scumread on me?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

You were townreading me D1 too, right? Do you remember exactly why?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Iirc, you seemed to be the one actually driving the game forward.

When you reconsider your reads, you do so through an objective lens

i mean

if i'm just saying "whelp everyone's town TB/rakkar" is it actually driving the game forward?

and more on the second part pls

[gigabyteTroubadour]

No, and I don't see where you got that was what my post indicated in the slightest.

but that's basically the summary of my D1 ISO... am i wrong about that ?

on the second point is that just in reference to this conversation we're having or am i forgetting an example of something from D1?

this game is actually like a fever dream i literally cannot remember anything and rereading it and trying to relive it just gives me a headache and i can't focus on it (especially once casielle starts posting walls) so like me rereading the game is going to have to wait a week when i'm actually a functional human being

schadd_ do NOT bring that up oh my god (the cunning manipulator banner)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could

it's totally real

[gigabyteTroubadour]

giga talk more about that rc/cass thingo you apparently think is scum

it's kind of at the point where it's more "lol poe" than it is actual read

rc's hammer in 921 and me not really jiving with his logic when he explained it just gives me flashbacks to my newbie where he talked me out of pushing for a NL in a 6 player mylo with a claimed, un-shot BP because he was totally going to get nk'd and no one would listen to his reads (despite the fact that i was basically his and kraska's lapdog that game because i didn't really know how to alignment read that well) and i just kind of lapped it up

like i said i want to call bullshit on rc thinking that he could possibly be the N1 kill after you claimed making his hammer pointless when i needed more time (basically to make sure i wasn't like this during D2), which makes me think scum motivation

scum motivation makes me think casielle partner because i'm not that hard of a ml to pull off in general and i think rc could totally pull that off after doing something "obviously scummy" just because of how he was in our newbie. a townflip from me would force him to "re-evaulate" or hardbus casielle but it'd still be LYLO.

it's a slightly more difficult path to take if he lynches casielle!partner but i think it'd still work in his favor

but tbh he's been kind of (kind of) towntelling so at this point i'm just throwing my hands in the air and trying to restart entirely

[gigabyteTroubadour]

would rask actually track RC after he says that?

it's a load of wifom but i think if i didn't pull the discussion that way it would have worked