Mini Normal 1874: Camping Trip Mafia (Game Over)

[Fykus]

Hey everyone.

VOTE: LUV

[Fykus]

Why would you vote a pr claim so early out the gate? I find that highly suspicious

More importantly.

Why would you fake claim mason?

If it's not a fake claim, why the fuck would you actually claim mason and out your partner?

I can't speak for innocent but i certainly didn't believe your claim so for me, him voting you wasn't even mildly suspicious let alone highly suspicious

don't know, don't care.

you lied and refused to answer my questions, that is a scum claim so hang and go away quickly

You're really calling someone scum for an obvious RSPS post? Seems to me that you're grasping at straws and trying to get an easy lynch early on day 1. This is only my second game here but this just screams scum to me.

[Fykus]

You're really calling someone scum for an obvious RSPS post? Seems to me that you're grasping at straws and trying to get an easy lynch early on day 1. This is only my second game here but this just screams scum to me.

Idk what rsps means.

I'm trying to lynch scum. Sick is scum. Get on board or stop talking to me about it. I'm not changing my vote.

Random Shitposting Stage - he was shitposting. If he were a mason why would he come out and tell everybody on day 1?

[Fykus]

VOTE: Twoface

[Fykus]

[quote="In post 66,
You're really calling someone scum for an obvious RSPS post? Seems to me that you're grasping at straws and trying to get an easy lynch early on day 1. This is only my second game here but this just screams scum to me.

Why did it take you an entire page before you voted TwoFace?[/quote]

I thought id call him out on what I considered him to be doing to see if he'd offer a reasonable response. A page later he hadnt offered one, so I put my vote on him. I'll be sure to vote at the same time I ask questions next time.

@sicko, 6: Hi Sicko. Hope you don't blindly scumread me again. That would be

weird

@sens, 23: we have a story you know.

Page 2

@fykus, 33: what are your thoughts on the sicko-two face situation?

Page 3

@fykus, 66: very scummy. Fykus just enters, comments on a popular opinion, agreeing with it, and then leaves. it's a great way for staying under the radar.

Page 4

@fykus, 85: do you have any other thoughts so far on the game?

-I feel like ive explained my thoughts on the twoface/sicko situation in my earlier comments.
-My apologies, I looked over the thread for something to comment on and the thing that stuck out the most was the stuff between twoface/sicko so thats what I commented on. Still trying to learn the game (and from what I've read its scummy to not post much at all) so I figured I'd comment on what I could.
-I'll give the game another once over and will make some more comments.

[Fykus]

Bugger, just realised I answered the first question within the quote. Here it is again:

I thought id call him out on what I considered him to be doing to see if he'd offer a reasonable response. A page later he hadnt offered one, so I put my vote on him. I'll be sure to vote at the same time I ask questions next time.

[Fykus]

Nadpool could you give us some explanations as to your votes please?

[Fykus]

Page 6

@fykus, 138: I'll throw a question for you. What do you think of Matt saying that I'm pushing you both because you are the "weakest" players in the game.

I guess its plausible but probably unlikely. I'll withhold my judgement for now since you haven't posted much yet.

For now though, I'm going to put my vote on Nadpool since he has offered nothing but seemingly random votes so far this game.

VOTE: Nadpool

[Fykus]

@lucca, sorry for misreading your question. Not sure what to think of it tbh, maybe its just one newbie sticking up for another (us newbies have gotta stick together after all). Maybe he could be scum trying to buddy with me or something? Sorry for the lack of a definitive idea of his aim with the post but I just took it at face value the first time around.

[Fykus]

Page 6

@fykus, 138: I'll throw a question for you. What do you think of Matt saying that I'm pushing you both because you are the "weakest" players in the game.

I guess its plausible but probably unlikely. I'll withhold my judgement for now since you haven't posted much yet.

For now though, I'm going to put my vote on Nadpool since he has offered nothing but seemingly random votes so far this game.

VOTE: Nadpool

So offering nothing >>> screaming scum?

Offering something as to why you're voting for someone is alot better than just voting and saying nothing else at all for 10 pages wouldnt you agree? I assume you do agree in some sense because Nadpool is one of your scum reads. As to pointing out that I waited for a page before putting my vote onto twoface after i grilled him, I'm pretty sure that I offered an explanation already. For now though, I believe where my vote is currently is fine where it is until something else/someone else acting scummy pops up.

[Fykus]

Page 9

@fykus, 205: it's okay. not mad about you misreading my question. since others have commented at this post, I'll throw my two cents: don't see anything alignment indicative, but I can't blame people who sees a bit of LAMISN.

Sorry for the newbie question but what does LAMISN mean?

[Fykus]

Fykus, what's your current read on TwoFace?

Still somewhat scum read to me, but not as much as it was before.

Sorry for the newbie question but what does LAMISN mean?

LAMIST means Look at me I'm so town! So I think LAMISN means Look at me I'm so neutral!

ah, cheers.

[Fykus]

Still somewhat scum read to me, but not as much as it was before.

What changed that it's not as strong as before?

Mainly because he explained that he likes to tunnel people during his games, but still being new to the game I'm not sure whether or not to take tunneling as a scum thing or not. (is tunneling a scum thing or are town more likely to tunnel instead?)

. As to pointing out that I waited for a page before putting my vote onto twoface after i grilled him

To be fair you didn't "grill me" at all though. You asked me a question and voted for me for a stupid reason. You're still scum reading me for the stupid reason.

If you're town, please stop being stupid. You have literally no reason to be voting or scum reading me since you didn't even fully understand why I was/am voting for sick

I apologise, this is only my second game here, I'm still learning so I kind of view aggressiveness as associated as being scummy (though I am starting to realise that this is not always the case). For now I'll withdraw my vote and hold onto it until something reasonably scummy pops up or an argument worth voting for comes along.

VOTE: unvote

[Fykus]

Page 6

@fykus, 138: I'll throw a question for you. What do you think of Matt saying that I'm pushing you both because you are the "weakest" players in the game.

I guess its plausible but probably unlikely. I'll withhold my judgement for now since you haven't posted much yet.

For now though, I'm going to put my vote on Nadpool since he has offered nothing but seemingly random votes so far this game.

VOTE: Nadpool

So offering nothing >>> screaming scum?

Offering something as to why you're voting for someone is alot better than just voting and saying nothing else at all for 10 pages wouldnt you agree? I assume you do agree in some sense because Nadpool is one of your scum reads. As to pointing out that I waited for a page before putting my vote onto twoface after i grilled him, I'm pretty sure that I offered an explanation already. For now though, I believe where my vote is currently is fine where it is until something else/someone else acting scummy pops up.

No my problem is you said a player was screaming scum (Player A). Then you vote a player who has offered nothing (Player B) without ever changing a read on the player screaming scum.

Player B is a lurker, waste of space, call it whatever. Could be scum could be town from my experience. I personally agree that Nadpool might be scum albeit for additional reasons than "offering nothing."

So if Player A is screaming scum, and you never reliquinish that screaming scum read, one you specifically state later was only strengthened by a lack of a reasonable response:

"I thought id call him out on what I considered him to be doing to see if he'd offer a reasonable response. A page later he hadnt offered one, so I put my vote on him."

and then all of a sudden vote a lurker who is doing nothing, yeah that catches my eye.

Since my vote wasn't gaining any traction at the time I decided to shift it to another potential scum I had my eye on. I'm under the assumption that during the course of the game people are supposed to make compromises in order to lynch the people they think are scum.

[Fykus]

Still somewhat scum read to me, but not as much as it was before.

What changed that it's not as strong as before?

Mainly because he explained that he likes to tunnel people during his games, but still being new to the game I'm not sure whether or not to take tunneling as a scum thing or not. (is tunneling a scum thing or are town more likely to tunnel instead?)

. As to pointing out that I waited for a page before putting my vote onto twoface after i grilled him

To be fair you didn't "grill me" at all though. You asked me a question and voted for me for a stupid reason. You're still scum reading me for the stupid reason.

If you're town, please stop being stupid. You have literally no reason to be voting or scum reading me since you didn't even fully understand why I was/am voting for sick

I apologise, this is only my second game here, I'm still learning so I kind of view aggressiveness as associated as being scummy (though I am starting to realise that this is not always the case). For now I'll withdraw my vote and hold onto it until something reasonably scummy pops up or an argument worth voting for comes along.

VOTE: unvote

So what has Nadpool done that changed ur wanting to vote him? And you really have 0 scummy reads at this point?

After watching him post some more I came to the conclusion that this is his play style with this account and its hard to discern whether or not hes scum (yet) with only one word answers. I was intending to do a quick read through and place a vote on somebody else but unfortunately had no time. About to do that now and place my vote somewhere if you'll bare with me.

[Fykus]

Ok so after having a read through again, I noticed in #251 Shannon sticks up for Twoface re: the tunneling thing but then in #301 she starts lightly putting some pressure on him again. Its not much to go on, but it could potentially be the signs of a scum team here. Apologies for not knowing how to link post numbers properly (youll have to go back through manually if you want to take a look).

VOTE: Shannon

[Fykus]

thanks matt

[Fykus]

I'm just being open and honest with my thought process, does that make me scummy? Sorry, I just assumed that honesty is the best policy here but I guess not.

[Fykus]

Ok so after having a read through again, I noticed in #251 Shannon sticks up for Twoface re: the tunneling thing but then in #301 she starts lightly putting some pressure on him again. Its not much to go on, but it could potentially be the signs of a scum team here. Apologies for not knowing how to link post numbers properly (youll have to go back through manually if you want to take a look).

Three things about this:

1. Shannon doesn't even stick up for TwoFace in 251. She just confirmed what he said was true.
2. Your whole read on Shannon is based on the fact that you say TwoFace is scum. TwoFace hasn't even flipped yet. Voting Shannon based on this doesn't make sense.
3. Even if TwoFace was scum this still doesn't make Shannon scum. The association is really weak, and doesn't mean much.

Am I not entitled to have more than scum read at one time? Is it not normal to juggle votes between your scum reads based upon how many votes are on each?

yes I am of the opinion you are giving honest thought process lately but early I am of the opinion you did something weird with your thoughts regarding TwoFace

Can you explain what was weird about my thought process re: twoface? I thought I explained it reasonably well but I haven't had time to go back and double check that though.

No my problem is you said a player was screaming scum (Player A). Then you vote a player who has offered nothing (Player B) without ever changing a read on the player screaming scum.

Player B is a lurker, waste of space, call it whatever. Could be scum could be town from my experience. I personally agree that Nadpool might be scum albeit for additional reasons than "offering nothing."

So if Player A is screaming scum, and you never reliquinish that screaming scum read, one you specifically state later was only strengthened by a lack of a reasonable response:

"I thought id call him out on what I considered him to be doing to see if he'd offer a reasonable response. A page later he hadnt offered one, so I put my vote on him."

and then all of a sudden vote a lurker who is doing nothing, yeah that catches my eye.

LUV, what do you think about this?

I don't even know what's that about or even understand it to be honest.

TwoFace wagon became all the rage
Fykus pops in throwing out accusations that Two Face's play screamed scum to him. (Yet doesn't vote TwoFace)
Fykus later votes TwoFace. When called out about this delay in voting, he said it was because he wanted to see how TwoFace reacted first. So one could deduce that TwoFace failed the reaction test, meaning he only screamed more scum to Fykus.
Fykus later votes Nadpool for "offering nothing". Nowhere between those quotes does he renounce his read of TwoFace.*

* Sorry, but if someone screamed scum to me, I would not move my vote to someone whose play was just "offering nothing" unless it was near deadline and it was to avoid a no lynch. I'd be pushing that read hard the whole day if he really screamed scum to me.

Then again, maybe the "scream scum" was only shade from someone who drew a red card this game...

I've explained my reasons for not voting twoface straight away and in retrospect I should have so as to have avoided all of this drama. I'll take it on board next time I make an accusation like that. As for shifting my vote I was hoping to put some pressure on Nadpool to get him to contribute some more rather than one word/icon responses but it seems that's just how his account plays the game so it was pointless (that and the fact that nobody else seemed to agree with me regarding his playstyle seeming scummy at first glance so my vote was basically worthless).

This is my second game, but it seems to be that a vote can be a very powerful tool, thus I switch it around alot to hopefully help to solve the game via pressure or actually succeeding in getting scum lynched. (If this assumption is wrong I'd appreciate someone to point it out for me so that I can improve my play in the future)

Looks like Fykus just gave up. He's still posting on the site, but not here.

No, haven't given up, just short on time and the other game I'm currently in is potentially coming to a close so I thought it'd be best to focus on it at that time rather than try and do a big post for this game to catch up with.

[Fykus]

Blaze it

top kek

[Fykus]

Am I not entitled to have more than scum read at one time? Is it not normal to juggle votes between your scum reads based upon how many votes are on each?

Sure, but can you tell me why you think Shannon is scum that doesn't involve TwoFace?

Give me a little bit and I'll go through and bring up all the relevant posts and whatnot. About to leave my pc atm.

[Fykus]

Fykus has played the Newbie card at least 3 times, and his posts are non-commital to his scumreads. They are also very wishy-washy. "This person is suspicious... but it could just be... and I'm a newbie here so... etc."

Are you not in favor of the Fykus wagon two face?

Im also the town JK. Go ahead and lynch your power role.

[Fykus]

Yep, me too.

VOTE: Keyen

Seems like your trying to jumpstart a new wagon to get everybody off of your one.

[Fykus]

We love you lucca

[Fykus]

VOTE: keyen

[Fykus]

By my count Keyen, Fykus, and Matt have all claimed or had someone else imply a claim for them. I'm not voting anyone who claims on D1.

We can agree to disagree about this, I'm not voting a PR claim today.

Sounds like a good way to get people to reveal their PRs ready for NKs tbh

[Fykus]

so no more detail on that claim OK?

Sounds like a good way to get people to reveal their PRs ready for NKs tbh

Coaching a scum partner into not putting their foot into shit (by claiming something that could be counterclaimed or proven to not exist in this game) perhaps?

[Fykus]

Hey guys, just re-read the last few pages to jog my memory on the lynch so bare with me here.

Ok so not long after replacing in Keyen posts this:

I'm on page 9 and got lazy to read. What should I do? I'll try to iso fykus

Which to me at the time (of me actually placing my vote) seemed like a possibly lazy scum looking for the easiest wagon to jump on to (me at the time).

Nadpools big post (dont want to quote it here cause itll take up too much space) highlighted a lot of things said by Keyen which could be construed as scummy (which I hadn't noticed the first time I read through the posts). Seeing as Nadpool seems to be a pretty experienced player I figured that I should hold his "evidence" in potentially high regard.

Meh. Congrats lynching a pr.

Next up was the half hearted claim at L-3. Like, why would somebody claim a PR (not actually saying which PR however) when they've still got 3 more votes until they were lynched? It seemed at the time like a lazy scum just throwing out the claim so that they wouldn't have to work as hard to fight the wagon in a few votes time if you understand what I mean.

As for who I jailed last night, it was shannon since I was scum reading her pretty hard yesterday. Seeing as a kill got through last regardless of my actions I'm less inclined to see shannon as scum today (for now at least). Hopefully this post has explained my thought process well enough.

And also as for my offsite scum games they were hosted on a private torrent tracker so unless you're on said sites I won't be able to link them to you. Generally though I stayed pretty quiet most of the game and ran my posts through my team mates using day chat before actually posting. If you need any more info from me feel free to ask.

[Fykus]

As for who I jailed last night, it was shannon since I was scum reading her pretty hard yesterday. Seeing as a kill got through last regardless of my actions I'm less inclined to see shannon as scum today (for now at least).

Why would you JK a scumread when there are three scum remaining? The chances of a JK correctly blocking the scum who made the kill are ridiculously low.

The best way to use a JK in this situation is to protect your top townread. That way, you pretty much function as a doc which is a pretty powerful role.

Sorry, I was under the impression that there were only 2 scum players in these games? I figured by jailing a suspected scum I could see whether or not it stopped a kill from happening which would 100% determine if that person was scum or not. I'll adjust this strategy for night 2 and jail my top town read instead (won't reveal who it is, hopefully scum will waste a shot on them).

[Fykus]

Posting to avoid a prod. About to go to work for the day so ill post something more detailed and at length this afternoon (australia time)

[Fykus]

sorry, will post this afternoon

[Fykus]

Hey everybody, I'm sorry for the last few days of only prod dodging posts, real life has been a real bitch to me. Hopefully this post can make up for it and move the game along.

I'm a watcher. Now get the fuck off my wagon

Well this seems pretty scummy. Surely a game with only 13 players wouldnt have 4 town PRs would it?

As for Sick soft claiming on day 1 I didn't even notice that tbh. In my first game on here a guy who kept saying things like that turned out to be a vanilla townie. And in all the bastard mafia games I've played people just come right out and fully claim.

Well I see that sick is effectively confirmed scum. In order for him not to be, fykus would have to be a scum pr and scum would have had to target my slot, the latter of which seems particularly unlikely.

I think there is exactly 1 scum in (sensfan; fykus). Fycus is scum if the scum team preplanned this fake claiming stuff to try and clear fykus (considering there were people doubting his claim this seems reasonable enough).

Sensfan is scum if sick just winged his claim.

I don't see sensfan making a post like 659 if the plan was for sick to fakeclaim, but other than that, he's spent an inordinate amount of time diverting pressure from sick for being 'bad town' and doing little else.

Going to have to do some more isos before i endorse lynching this very second but sick is clearly the lynch for the day.

Can you explain the logic here? Not sure if i follow?

Was waiting for Fykus to post links to the torrent site but he hasn't posted in a while and I'm impatient so I want to point out that his assumption that there are only two scum could be a townslip. He did only play a newbie game on the site where there are two scum. However, I think it's somewhat weird that if he plays a nine-player game with two scum, he'd assume that a thirteen player game also has two scum. One possibility that came to mind was that there are two scum + a traitor which would make Fykus's assumption a scumslip. Overall, he clearly is playing nothing like his newbie town-game I read through. If he does flip scum, be aware of the traitor possibility.

I apologise but its hard for me to go through and screencrap pages and pages of stuff on another site. I hope that my past game on here was sufficient enough to see my "emerging" play style. Heres a link to a game you might be able to see though where I'm town. My name is Denver on there. http://s15.zetaboards.com/Annon_Mafia/topic/10121488/1/

Townreads in order (will pick randomly from top 3 to jail tonight):

BlackVoid
Jupiter
IAI
Nadpool
Jaack
mattblackguy
Sensfan
shannon
massive
sick

Also just incase I get NKd tonight I want everybody to look into the people who have withheld voting today:

Not Voting (7): SensFan, Jaack, massive, I Am Innocent (edited to show whos actually not voting now)

I find that its pretty curious a couple of these people withhold their votes even though they're agreeing with peoples arguments here.

VOTE: Sick[/b] and thats lynch.

[Fykus]

VOTE: sick

sorry about that fucked up the code

[Fykus]

Fykus, I can agree with IAI as a potential target, but I don't think you should jail either me or blackvoid.

Whys that? Someone suggested I pick my 3 top townreads

[Fykus]

I recommend that you don't jail me fykus if you're jailer.

I'm sorry but I chose to jail you last night. It seemed to me that you were claiming some sort of PR and I figured if it was that obvious to me then it would also be just as obvious to scum. It looks like my gamble has paid off thankfully.

PEdit: I see IAI wants this too

Something that sticks out to me is Fykus' 750. One of his reasons for not believing Sick's claim was that town should not have 4 PRs in a game this size. I've just come from a game with exactly that number of PRs, so I'm calling BS on that.

Also the way he gave his list and then almost fished out a claim from them suggests that he had ulterior motives.

"Townreads in order (will pick randomly from top 3 to jail tonight):

BlackVoid
Jupiter
IAI"

I think Matt and Jaack are on the same page here. So the first thing I want today is for Fykus to claim who he acted on.

Sorry but I don't understand what you're getting at here?

Also I'm sorry to use my newbie crutch again but this is the first time that I've been in a game of this size, this seemingly being a step up from the newbie queue I figured that 3 PRs would make sense not 4?

[Fykus]

Whys that?

[Fykus]

Sorry i completely forgot about it. I I only assume that I saved jupiter because he seems to have claimed a pr. Are you implying that jupiter is actually scum?

[Fykus]

Not as of yet no, but nobody has posted yet. I also noticed that you withheld your vote yesterday. Why is that?

[Fykus]

VOTE: fykus

See you in hell candy boys!

[Fykus]

Thanks for the game guys, I apologise for the bad decision making on my part (lynching the pr, hammering myself etc) but I did honestly believe there wouldnt be more than 4 PRs in the game lol. If id have known otherwise I guess I would have tried to get myself lynched in sicks place. Alas, live and learn. Back to the newbie queue for me.

[Fykus]

If anyone could give me some advice or commentary on my play itd be greatly appreciated

[Fykus]

No we didnt. I guess we winged it

[Fykus]

thanks jupiter much appreciated. Gonna try get in a couple more newbie games and see how i go. hoping to improve from here on out