[Game Over] Newbie 1784 - Escape Room

[Chronicle]

Not BP

VOTE: StealthyNoodle

[Chronicle]

I do not like this strat at all, I think it's a bad way to teach newbies to play and I refuse to claim either way.

Refusing to claim even though it's a pro-town strat?

[Chronicle]

@Chronicle
@Loopdan
explain your votes from earlier

It's RVS. There is nothing to explain except that I wanted to build a wagon.

[Chronicle]

Well. I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I mean hell, I suggested it and I'm not sold on it being absolutely the right thing to do. Refusing to participate in a widely-accepted pro-Town practice is only scummy if it is widely accepted; this is not.

From what I gather nancy's only concern is that it takes away from the usual game starting RVS, but I don't see why claiming BPs would hinder any form of discussion. There are still votes being thrown and reactions to wagons and votes springing up, aside from the additional setup spec happening I don't see how we have strayed much from the usual RVS as a result of claiming BPs.

[Chronicle]

Yes. Have you been reading my posts? What do you think about my refusal? Does it mean that I'm scum? You should probably go ahead and lynch me, if so.

At that point in time I had only read that far into the game, not fully caught up.

And no, I don't think it makes you scum.

[Chronicle]

It puts the focus on the setup rather than the play. There is enough setup-spec on MS, we don't need to encourage that. Newbie queue should be about learning to play, not solving the setup to churn out a win as easily and quickly as possible. There's also a tendency for games to stall out when a newbie lands a BP role PM because the newbie BP just loses interest, and scum have less ability to fakeclaim, which is an important thing for newbie scum to learn how to do. The amount of times scum actually claim BP is so miniscule that this strategy is really not necessary to ward that off as if it's some threat.

I take it that this summarises all your concerns with claiming BP?

[Chronicle]

The emphasis on setup spec rather than scumhunting and the cost of getting into these exact situations, where we are squabbling over setup spec rather than scumhunting, is precisely why this strat sucks.

Only if there is a refusal to claim.

[Chronicle]

The emphasis on setup spec rather than scumhunting and the cost of getting into these exact situations, where we are squabbling over setup spec rather than scumhunting, is precisely why this strat sucks.

Only if there is a refusal to claim.

Wouldn't be a refusal if the strat weren't pushed

It's already been pushed, so if your concern is that it clutters the game with setup spec and not scumhunting, your continued refusal to claim only drags this on longer.

[Chronicle]

Also why is Tes scum?

[Chronicle]

This person has been staring at that noose for hours, not uttering a single word.

UNVOTE: nancy
VOTE: bjc0303

Ew

[Chronicle]

Whatever. It's obvious I'm VT anyway from this whole stupid thing.

Why is Tes not scum?

He's a null to me. What have you seen that you think is scum motivated?

[Chronicle]

This is why I think it is more important to teach everyone to keep their roles secret.
It is information scum does not have. This game is all about information and scum already has more than town. The more they get the more it hurt us.

Not a concern if we lynch scum.

Speaking of which, why are you voting Loop?

[Chronicle]

Alright, so if I'm scum, then what would I do in this situation if I were town?

Forming coherent sentences would be a good start.

[Chronicle]

I voted Loopdan to see what whymafia would do.

So do you think Loop could be scum?

[Chronicle]

Care to elaborate on the ew?

Pretending to be proactive and generating content, but really that's a useless vote.

I also disliked it when you voted bjc.

[Chronicle]

If you're at the stage in the game where you don't have anyone you're scumreading heavily or don't have any wagons you want to actively push at that time, it's generally a fine idea to push on people who are absent or lurking in an effort to get them to contribute to the game. With that in mind, do you have any problems with the post? What did you dislike about my vote on bjc?

My point still stands. Why push someone who hasn't even posted in this game yet when there are so many others to interact with? You don't even have to push a wagon, but interactions with anyone else would generate some sort of contact or reaction.

Engaging with someone who hasn't even made an entry seems counter productive. There is nothing to gain, you can't even ask him a question when you don't know any of his stances. Any vote or wagon on him just seems empty and baseless.

And I disliked your bjc for the exact same reasons.

[Chronicle]

It's productive for the very reason that the intent (and it's up to you to parse whether or not the vote was truly made with this intent or was just an easy vote) is to bring that person into the game. You can interact with people in thread without voting them, but you can't interact with someone who isn't in the thread at all. It's kind of an on-principle thing. If it's only one vote it won't be particularly effective, but it's the principle of "get in here and help us catch scum or you die" that matters, and if a wagon forms and that slot is in fact lurking rather than absent, they are forced to engage in the thread where they otherwise could've continued to lurk. Does that make sense?

Does a wagon really force them to come into this thread? If he's been avoiding this game, sure.

He hasn't come online since this game started. It's a lazy push. I understand the rationale behind voting a lurker to encourage content, but surely you can see this vote will not accomplish that.

In his current state, he's only making it easier for scum. He might or might not be scum himself, but being inactive isn't the way to prove your innocence.

Voting him won't work like a prod would, and will not magically get him back.

So you'd rather trust someone who won't respond to your questions then, than someone who does? You're just proving my point here, mate.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said I would trust someone who wouldn't respond to my questions. I said trying to engage someone who hasn't even entered the game will not help us progress the game.

If you are town, stop being lazy with your vote. A bjc is useless when he was last online 12 hours before this game started.

Or if you're scum just trying to look proactive in finding scum, go ahead.

[Chronicle]

VOTE: Whymafia

Why?

[Chronicle]

Why the heck would he go online just to lurk? It would simply weaken his position as scum. Your reasoning makes no sense.

Same if he were town? Him not posting in this thread is therefore not alignment indicative, as you have previously implied.

He entered the game at the moment he accepted his role. He might be flaking, he might be lurking. And hopefully he'll show up to speak his mind about that sooner or later.

Convenient how you just snipped out the whole part about putting words in my mouth while replying to me.

Stop shoving people around. Again, if I feel like someone's more fit for the vote, I'll gladly change my mind.

Your vote is wasted on a slot that hasn't even logged in since the game started, and you voting him will not pop him an email telling him to check in on this game and post his thoughts.

And when he does finally catch up, he will post his thoughts accordingly. Your one vote doesn't do anything. It will not spur any sort of reaction, it does not give him any sort of incentive to pay more attention to this game, because he is not ignoring this game. Because he hasn't even logged in yet.

Your vote does not do anything. His inactivity thus far is not alignment indicative.

[Chronicle]

Well, what I've trying to push you towards looking at not strictly whether the you like the vote, but whether you like the post. I got hints of you reading into that in 159, but I wanted to see whether you just thought that voting lurkers on policy was bad or whether you were reading into Noodle's motivation and finding it lacking.

What's the difference between the vote and the post? I dislike both of them. I have nothing against voting lurkers if your case is that they are scum coasting, but Noodle's vote on bjc just read as pointless and empty, one I'd from newbscum. An easy push on a lurker to appear active in looking for scum.

quote="In post 170, nancy"]It looks like you have done this somewhat after all, which is great. But I'd also encourage you to question Noodle on it rather than just come to the conclusion that it's a bad post. Noodle may very well not have realized that bjc hadn't come online since the game started (I certainly didn't), for instance, or may just not have thought it through very well, or may have been following a thought process that hadn't occurred to you, or something else entirely. The only way to know for sure (granted, he could always be scum and lie, so you can't really know for sure) is to question him.[/quote]
I highly doubt there was a substantial thought process behind that vote. bjc hasn't even posted anything yet.

[Chronicle]

Oh wow I butchered that quote tag

[Chronicle]

Why are we debating his alignment when he's not even lurking - he hasn't logged on since the game started.

Exactly why I can't justify a vote on bjc.

Also, what are your reads so far? Has your read on Loop changed?

[Chronicle]

So, do you agree that he might very well be lurking then? And do you deny that lurking is a pro-scum strat?

Do you agree that he could also just not have logged in and your actions literally do nothing to encourage content from his slot because he possibly hasn't even checked the site?

I do not deny that lurking is scum indicative, but you have no way of proving that he is lurking and intentionally trying to coast.

If bjc0303 is lurking, he sees this. If there's more pressure and he's still lurking, there'll probably be a response as well. To explain further:

He doesn't have to be online to lurk.

I don't get why you keep pushing such an invalid argument.

My words on you are just as useless as your vote.

[Chronicle]

I highly doubt there was a substantial thought process behind that vote. bjc hasn't even posted anything yet.

Not sure if you're trolling, or just trying to be an a-hole.

I'm just being honest. It was a simple vote, there wasn't much behind it. Which is why I disliked it, because I think it's a real waste of a vote.

[Chronicle]

Even if he was scum lurking he can only lurk for so long before he gets prodded. And that's an actual incentive for him to post.

[Chronicle]

Trying to pushing a pressure wagon on a lurker? Sure.

But you have no proof he is lurking, nor any form of indication that he could be lurkscum.

[Chronicle]

VOTE: Whymafia

[Chronicle]

Lurking does not mean you do not post entirely. You post minimally, enough to dodge prods. It let's you fly under the radar as scum.

And also scum may not consciously adopt lurking as a strat, but apathy from knowing alignments and fear of getting caught or suspected would result in lurking, hence why it's normally seen as scum indicative.

[Chronicle]

Why this naked vote?

I don't think Noodle is scum anymore.

[Chronicle]

{Pine, Screenplay, WhyMafia}
{Chronicle, Loopdan}
{bjc}
{Noodle}
{Tes}

Is this your actual readlist? Because if it is, I'm curious about your WhyMafia read.

[Chronicle]

@chronicle it was not a good idea to vote me and just leave me hanging. You just simply voted me and left. Do you have anything to add?

I'm going to be doing naked votes often, I'm beginning to like them.

[Chronicle]

nancy talk to me about your Loopdan read. I'll look into that messy Tes interaction you two are having later/tmr.

WhyMafia, between nancy and Noodle, who do you think is more likely to be scum and why?

Noodle, who do you think could be scum?

[Chronicle]

I'll look into that messy Tes interaction you two are having later/tmr.

Okay there wasn't much to read.

Actually I don't get your stronger townreads. Is Pine a meta read? Why is WhyMafia town at all?

[Chronicle]

The end result resembled sandwiches if one
squinted their eyes, however Screenplay and Chronicle begged to differ and promptly voted the
aspiring chef for secretly trying to poison them.

On a side note this flavour is hilarious lol

[Chronicle]

I still keep one noodle on nancy, for the same reasons as before.

nancy is prob town though. Ignoring her setup spec stances(actually even if I took them into account), her approach to the game has been largely towny.

[Chronicle]

I personally think pine is worth looking into -
He begins by heavily defending Nancy and proceeds to leave

In addition, I would have to say Nancy has a higher chance of scum than stealthy atm. She repeatedly appeals to my emotions, making me want to trust her. My other reasoning in on my reads list from page 8. I don't feel like repeating all of it. Just go check. That being said, I do appreciate what you said Nancy xd.

What even? Have you even thought to yourself why AtE is scummy before you said this?

[Chronicle]

Before that, am I the only one who'd prefer that nancy didn't put teaching above playing to her win-con? Is there anyone who prefers that she's playing this way?

No, I would have preferred she just went along with it and save us the trouble, but I do not think that alone tells anything of her alignment.

[Chronicle]

If nancy's town, I find it weird that she's decided to share that she'll cast aside her win-con for teaching others to play. In addition to being a minor rule break(or am I in the wrong here?), she's soley agreeing to lower the majority of players' chances of winning.

If nancy's scum, she could simply be lying about casting aside win-con for teaching, merely using it as a coverup. She wouldn't be breaking any rules either(being a self-proclaimed SE, I suppose she'd do her best to respect the rules).

Understand it from her POV. The whole point of a newbie is to learn how to play the game, getting a hang of forming reads, associations, learning lingo, and practicing skills like fake-claiming and ccing etc.

We don't play newbies with the intent of breaking the setup to find the most ideal strategy, and while I personally feel like that is something worth learning, it takes a lot away from the learning experience of a newbie game, because if things go well we would be playing a follow the tracker as early as page 1, and that's pointless.

While I think that claiming BPs wouldn't ruin the newbie game entirely, save for certain scenarios, I understand what she's trying to achieve, and it doesn't make sense for me to think her scum for it when she could be making that argument as town, but genuinely believing the strat takes away from the newbie game experience.

[Chronicle]

Only practical reason I see, for it not being rulebreaking, is that she's scum pretending to cast aside win-con. Does my scumlean make sense?

Makes sense

[Chronicle]

You seem very eager to disprove of me and nancy's "useless" vote. Maybe you actually just really disliked those votes "going to waste".

No, I just disliked it a lot.

[Chronicle]

Your repetitive naked votes let's you lie low. You avoid any comeback, thus robbing us of your reaction.

I have never ran away from explaining my thoughts, if you ask I will deliver, unless there is something I want to try.

Naked votes are something that I'm trying, they won't last outside of helping me form early reads.

[Chronicle]

And you do seem to put a lot of effort in defending nancy, concidering you were among the first ones to take note of her claim-refusal.

Also because I thought she could be town.

[Chronicle]

I also like to stubbornly think I'm right.

[Chronicle]

You're laying low, sharing few original ideas.
You seem to be asking others' for their opinions instead of providing/sharing your own; it would be a great way to spur heat between other players.

Well, what do you want to know?

[Chronicle]

WhyMafia responded in a way that I liked at a few different points.

Which posts and why? I don't see anything particularly towny

[Chronicle]

Or would you like expand on this vote, and the reason you didn't add anything when WhyMafia asked?

Didn't have anything to add. Just moving on to the next person to push and get a feel on

[Chronicle]

Have not finished catching up but

Not tracker

VOTE: nancy

[Chronicle]

Who do you think is scum? Why? Lots of town reads from you, lots of questions, but an interesting blank when it comes to scum reads. So if you had to lynch someone right now, who would you lynch?

nancy, pine, whymafia

Preference of lynch in that order

[Chronicle]

I will post better tmr, got some studying to do tonight

[Chronicle]

Please explain what specific posts lead to your reads if at all possible. Since nancy is your strongest read I'm most interested in this.

I initially thought her to be town until the recent interaction with Noodle, then I rethought my read on her and waited for more content from her regarding the whole wincon argument

[Chronicle]

And with her stances on pine and noodle(disagree with both of them) as well as her recent reaction, it kinda reads as scum getting defensive.

[Chronicle]

Aside from that, I just don't wanna lynch outside that pool because I feel the rest of the playerlist are townreads of varying strength

[Chronicle]

I don't think a Pine lynch is the best lynch to do at the moment, though

[Chronicle]

What do you think about Srceenplay? Do you disagree with my assessment of him?

Can't read him for shit. I also dislike any vote on pine, and I'd rather see the slot replaced at this point.

[Chronicle]

Oh wow pine posted a wall

[Chronicle]

And with her stances on pine and noodle(disagree with both of them) as well as her recent reaction, it kinda reads as scum getting defensive.

I don't get defensive as scum but which parts read as scum getting defensive?

Defensive isn't a very good word to represent what I see it as in retrospect

Jumpy?

[Chronicle]

Readlist - StealthyNoodle

Likely Town	StealthyNudes!
	WhyMafia, Loopdan
	TesXX, Srceenplay
Null	CogMachine
	Pine
	Chronicle
	nancy
Likely Scum

Why is WhyMafia town???

Same goes for nancy, you never told me which posts felt town to you.

[Chronicle]

-WhyMafia 303 strikes me as gamesolving. Asking incisive motivations-based questions of the hardest-to-sort active player.

Uhmmmmm

But I don't see how that question made any sense

[Chronicle]

Not sure if I really agree on that Noodle read, I like noodle for town.

[Chronicle]

Whymafia:
*Is pretty actively asking relevant questions.
*Seems to put some effort into providing theories of his own.
*Seems to be pushing the game a lot, and is somewhat annoyed when the game stalls.
*He's fine with

Has he been asking relevant questions? Has he been pushing the gamestate?

I'd have to ISO him to verify these things, but the very fact I have to do that means I can't recall him doing any of these.

His questions always seem aimless and empty, and his posts are forgettable and have never stood out.

Why is he town.

[Chronicle]

Give me time to read this.

I play on mobile and I hate you for this post.

[Chronicle]

This one? A couple of things.

1) Scum tend to hedge their bets with their reads. They like to have few TRs, few SRs, and lots of grey area that they can work with and be flexible/opportunistic. By pressing someone to commit to hard reads, WM is narrowing that grey area and putting the suspect off balance.
2) The choice of suspect is also kind of telling. WM didn't pick someone who was strongly present or someone who was absent, he picked someone who had thus far been difficult to sort. That strikes me as gamesolving.
3) This sort of question forces people to make connections and associatives, and can be very handy down the road.

Now, I don't think WM meant all of that, but the motives are probably Town. The quoted post more than anything else seems to vindicate my cold feet regarding early WM suspicion.

Asking someone to name their strong TR and strong SR would already be looking for reads that were originally outside of their grey area. I don't think this question really pulls out anything from a player, and kinda hints of light PR hunting(though admittedly thinking about it it won't amount to anything).

Fair enough, he asking Srceenplay is interesting, but I'm not sure I agree 100% with that read into it.

And honestly, so would any readlist.

The question is pretty out of nowhere and while I like the perspective that if encourages players to take a stance on other players, I think this question fails to achieve that, and I don't think he made that question was made with that intent anyway.

[Chronicle]

Not sure if I really agree on that Noodle read, I like noodle for town.

You're welcome to disagree, but I'd like to hear your Towncase on Noodle.

Mostly formed through my interaction with him on nancy, and any interaction with him from that point onwards, but just going through his ISO briefly:
[p]197[/p] doesn't shy away from his very superficially-contradictory statement on the claiming BP strat
[p]220[/p] [p]225[/p] [p]256[/p] reads as actively looking at players
[p]249[/p] actually scumhunting
[p]270[/p] actually cares about interactions and responses

[Chronicle]

Not sure if I really agree on that Noodle read, I like noodle for town.

You're welcome to disagree, but I'd like to hear your Towncase on Noodle.

Mostly formed through my interaction with him on nancy, and any interaction with him from that point onwards, but just going through his ISO briefly:
197 doesn't shy away from his very superficially-contradictory statement on the claiming BP strat
220 225 256 reads as actively looking at players
249 actually scumhunting
270 actually cares about interactions and responses

Fixed that.

[Chronicle]

Can't really find the motivation to look at recent posts, so I'll push that back a bit. For some reason I'm reading it but nothing is processing.

Missed this post. What do you think is scum indicative about being jumpy? Describe what scum being jumpy looks like to you, and why Town can't be jumpy? I don't agree with your characterization, btw, but I'm curious about what you're seeing in my posts.

But just to address this quickly, after getting some pressure your sudden big reaction seems out of nowhere(310, 314, 316 mainly). Read to me as being driven into a corner, because of how it contrasts to your play the rest of the day(which read as town: calm, responsive etc).

That, along with the whole wincon argument.

But I'm tired now, and honestly I don't like where my vote is right now. I only got off the WhyMafia wagon because it lacked support, and your wagon just sprung up + I wanted to see where the wincon argument went. Now with Srceenplay and his confusing mess of "I voted cuz he's not around to defend but don't want an easy lynch" and some other shit, I need to sit back and rethink my reads.

UNVOTE:

Srceen, WhyMafia and Tes are my preferred lynches as of now. Noodle and Cog are out of the question.

And I still need to make up my mind about Loop, Pine and nancy, though the first 2 lean town.

Also nancy/pine, still don't see Noodle being scum

[Chronicle]

Also
Regarding Stealthy's post, I was only defending Pine bc lynching someone based on someone who is inactive is ridiculous. I also defended the person Cog replaced (albeit less so bc I was busy when they were trying to lynch him)

Sorry, what was this addressed to?

[Chronicle]

Re Pine, I'll talk about him some more at a later point, but I'd rather give the newbies time to engage with him / his content more and let him establish himself in thread first. Don't want to color people's perception of him any more than I already have.

Actually please tell us now. I'm curious as well.

[Chronicle]

I don't know if that means my reads are off, their reads are off, if one of them is scum and the other's reads are off, or if they are both scum. I'm usually pretty good at finding town, so this is sticking out to me.

Aye, the fact that they both sit on the Noodle wagon confuses me too. Doesn't make sense that they scumread Noodle, but if it was a nancy/Pine it doesn't seem like the best push they could make.

[Chronicle]

anyway I'm on a data crunch. Reading and will respond to questions, but content won't be heavy.

[Chronicle]

Preemptive prod dodge. Too busy tonight, should have time tmr

[Chronicle]

WhyMafia and StealtyNoodle are the scum team! GG!

Noodle is town.

[Chronicle]

I am honesty confused at this point
Nobody was talking so I made a joke
Hammer me
When my flip is revealed, I think it will be pretty obvious who is scum

If you are town, this seems like an awful play.

If you are scum, I 100% approve.

[Chronicle]

I love how WhyMafia's beautiful Yoda-haiku just fetched him a vote.

That was not even close to a haiku smh

@screenplay
It was on the forum that introduced me to mafia
I heard that you guys here are all tryhards and I would be hammered if I spoke yoda-esque. I'm actually surprised nobody else voted me besides you.

If you voted WhyMafia and think he's scum for the yoda post, you have lost me.
Also not a town post

[Chronicle]

Maybe I'm just trying to win the game, something you really haven't been doing much (unless of course you're scum, which in that case you're doing just a tad better)

It's time to bare down and find scum.

Lol and you've been doing a lot?

VOTE: WhyMafia

Don't know why I got off you in the first place.

[Chronicle]

Still waiting on that Noodle scumcase

Still waiting for the nancy/Pine reads

[Chronicle]

My TR on Noodle is fading.

Why

[Chronicle]

@556
Naked voting - so?
Hypocrisy - not sure how this bjc thing relates to anything? I wanted nancy to claim because I felt the strat helped town, but I didn't think her refusal meant anything alignment indicative. I explained this many times before, were you reading?

The rest I'm too lazy to reply to because mobile. I'll just pick out the important ones.

What's wrong with asking for a towncase in you?

I believe I have explained why i thought Noodle was town before.

I don't recall ever saying it was a solid, solid scumread. Nice misrep. Anyway, after the interaction with Noodle I began to rethink the whole wincon/claiming BP thing, then decided nancy could be scum for it and decided to move my vote there.

[Chronicle]

If I counted correctly, L-2

[Chronicle]

Not sure if I really agree on that Noodle read, I like noodle for town.

You're welcome to disagree, but I'd like to hear your Towncase on Noodle.

Mostly formed through my interaction with him on nancy, and any interaction with him from that point onwards, but just going through his ISO briefly:
197 doesn't shy away from his very superficially-contradictory statement on the claiming BP strat
220 225 256 reads as actively looking at players
249 actually scumhunting
270 actually cares about interactions and responses

Fixed that.

Everything I said back then still stands. I still see a pretty town motivated mindset from his posts. What are you seeing that's scum motivated?

[Chronicle]

He has pushed nancy for scum before, no?

[Chronicle]

@Chronicle what post number did you give reasoning

what the fuck I just brought it up in 567, but my brief Noodle read came way back in 407

what

the

fuck

[Chronicle]

Reaction fishing .. what a common excuse

So .. what made you want to "reaction fish" me. After all, "I never run away from explaining my thoughts"

Lol what makes you think you're special, I naked voted a lot of people.

And if you think I'm not explaining something enough, just tell me.

[Chronicle]

I agree that Chronicle has been really sure of me being town. He doesn't seem to be concerned at all, that I might be going behind everyone's back, dodging votes(except for nancy's and Pine's which really lack any explanation for now). Why are you so sure I'm town Chronicle, and who do you find most likely to be scum atm?

Sorry for not posting detailed reads yet. I'll get to it.

WhyMafia, obviously

[Chronicle]

Also you're not really going behind everybody's backs, as you've said. Pine and nancy have scumreads on you, and I think Srceenplay too? I'm just waiting for their cases, but I'm pretty confident in you being town.

[Chronicle]

Well ignore this part, I see now that you already explained yourself a couple of times on that matter.

oh
I was blind?
Can you give me post numbers?

yes, you are blind.

and also scum.

[Chronicle]

The only way I can see Chronicle being scum is with Pine

Why?

Also still waiting on your explanation of your pine TR.

And that read on Noodle.

[Chronicle]

Chronicle what kind of experience do you have with forum mafia?

None. I've played IRL and chatmafia though. Sup?

[Chronicle]

Nancy you have WM as town?

[Chronicle]

That doesn't help me with understanding why you scumread him in the first place, or why you no longer scumread him

[Chronicle]

Fair enough

You haven't changed your mind at all ever since that original post?

Correct

[Chronicle]

Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true fyi

Like how you repeated multiple times that I never explained my Noodle read? Anything else you want to lie about?

[Chronicle]

And now we play follow the tracker.....

[Chronicle]

Anyway mobile posting, will be on a computer tonight.

[Chronicle]

I am lazy to read.

Please summarise the last 3 pages for me so that I don't have to sit down and read all of them.

^@nancy and noodle

Thanks

[Chronicle]

love ya

[Chronicle]

VOTE: nancy

come on board loop

[Chronicle]

your noodle push sucks

[Chronicle]

because you are scum and you can't do a good push on town

[Chronicle]

because I did read it, but i am too lazy to entertain you right now given how the last 3 pages have gone nowhere.

[Chronicle]

but if you would to try, tell me why noodle is scum

[Chronicle]

scummy as fuck vote from you.

lol

yeah i did

[Chronicle]

i haven't asked any questions?

[Chronicle]

oh i see what you mean, about noodle

[Chronicle]

but if you would to try, tell me why noodle is scum

you're saying this question is redundant?

[Chronicle]

This is why I said you were behaving like caught scum, ftr Noodle. The only way you soft PR like this is if you are scum because if you were actually a PR you would be trying to get the wagon off you so that you didn't have to claim, not sitting back and refusing to engage with people at risk of getting run up to L-1.

That doesn't read at all like caught scum

[Chronicle]

but he doesn't have to be softing PR if he thinks he's playing obvtown

[Chronicle]

but if you would to try, tell me why noodle is scum

you're saying this question is redundant?

Yes, given that I've spent the past few pages talking about this.

it was less of asking for reasons and more of summarising the last 3 pages kind of "tell me why he is scum"

[Chronicle]

There is literally nothing about Noodle that reads as obvtown and he hasn't said once that he considers himself obvtown.

The summary is that he's scum because he refuses to back his shit up, he isn't questioning himself, and he doesn't care about being sorted. Town wants to help people sort them. Scum do not.

Like, his stances are a mess of contradictions and it's not as though I've come at him with anything other than reasonable questions about his motivation and thought processes and yet all he's responded with until his most recent post is more or less gtfo.

the few times he has said thanks to people who have commented that they townread him seems to me like he's pretty aware that he's playing just fine.

what has he failed to back up? his vote on you? 675? afaik you have been in his lynchpool since this game started, so why does it come as a surprise he votes you over pine, when pine has done nearly fuckall this game.

when has noodle had contradictions? i don't recall him calling someone town the whole game, and then suddenly call that person scum(ahem ahem).

[Chronicle]

No no no no this is the completely wrong mindset. I'm asking you questions to get more out of you, because you haven't explained things properly and people need explanations to be able to sort things for you. We can't follow your thought processes if you don't lay them out for us, and you'll never realize if there's anything wrong with your thought processes if you don't do the same. It's a great method to /interact/, to start a conversation and get people /involved/. Like, thinking that someone is suspicious for trying to delve into your reasoning is the absolute OPPOSITE of what should be happening. You 100% need to fix this approach if you're Town.

You /do/ need to elaborate on your post, because it /isn't/ understandable.

I don't want to guess for myself which unstable reads you're referring to. I want you to tell me, so that I know precisely what you are thinking, where those thoughts are coming from, and where they are going. If I simply read your posts and assume that I am following your thought processes then there is SO MUCH room for error and misinterpretation and that is EXACTLY what Town needs to avoid like the plague.

This post of yours is honestly really really bad. You're assuming the worst about my motivations at every single opportunity and you're showing that you don't care /one bit/ about engaging with me, instead you just want to push a self-serving narrative and portray my actions in a way that fits with that, which is the /complete opposite/ of /everything/ you should be doing as a Townie.

i keep flipping between the past few pages and i hate this post because of how much it misreps noodle. has he not explained his read on you prior to his most recent vote? yes he has, since a really fucking long time ago. has he been hiding any reads or failed to explain them? not that i can remember?

sure, granted your question on what he meant by "unstable reads" was valid, because that wasn't very clear, but everything else here just paints noodle's recent frustration in bad light, and if you say that "assuming the worst about (one's) motivations at every single opportunity" is the "complete opposite of everything you should be doing as a townie", then you seem to be living your very own scumtells right here, because all you have done a lot of downtalking noodle's reads (707) without really explaining why they are reads that would come from scum, as opposed to town having wrong reads.

pedit: why ask me? i'm not noodle. but if you want me to guess, if i were noodle and i thought pine's wall post was scummy, only to never receive a response from pine because he just never came back, i would rather let the replacement play and read him and just continue pushing whoever else i think is scum.

uhm, baseless meaning he has nothing to back up his scumreads, then no. baseless meaning you don't agree that his reasons for scumreading you are valid, then maybe.

lol, so this contradictions have nothing to do with his reads and all to do with his opinions on setup spec? then i'm not really interested. also, can you remind me when he says his scumread on you weakened?

[Chronicle]

Why are you interested in defending Noodle?

in case it hasn't been clear enough

Not sure if I really agree on that Noodle read, I like noodle for town.

Not sure if I really agree on that Noodle read, I like noodle for town.

You're welcome to disagree, but I'd like to hear your Towncase on Noodle.

Mostly formed through my interaction with him on nancy, and any interaction with him from that point onwards, but just going through his ISO briefly:
197 doesn't shy away from his very superficially-contradictory statement on the claiming BP strat
220 225 256 reads as actively looking at players
249 actually scumhunting
270 actually cares about interactions and responses

Fixed that.

Srceen, WhyMafia and Tes are my preferred lynches as of now. Noodle and Cog are out of the question.

And I still need to make up my mind about Loop, Pine and nancy, though the first 2 lean town.

Also nancy/pine, still don't see Noodle being scum

WhyMafia and StealtyNoodle are the scum team! GG!

Noodle is town.

i think noodle is town

[Chronicle]

UNVOTE:

I hate you nancy

[Chronicle]

It's not me

[Chronicle]

You don't think Noodle can defend himself? Saying that you think Noodle is Town isn't really answering my question. It's Day 1 and I don't believe anyone can be completely positive in their reads yet barring meta so the question remains, why are you going out of your way to defend him?

Because I'm pretty confident in it, and I'd like to believe I'm right.

[Chronicle]

I'm actually a bit lazy to reply to the rest of the post because I'd need to run some ISOs and I'm on mobile so I'm not going to

[Chronicle]

Please, thoughts on this.

The only thing I'm thinking of is why haven't you unvoted?

[Chronicle]

Oh everyone is online

Hello

[Chronicle]

Alright. And would you care to correct him as IC that I am conf!town by virtue of not having been CC'd?

i don't understand why you need to do this, or why anyone is still pushing your lynch

which strongly susggests loopscum and noodlescum

[Chronicle]

Alright. And would you care to correct him as IC that I am conf!town by virtue of not having been CC'd?

I think we have been clear we don't want a doc cc.

no, not really

[Chronicle]

Alright. And would you care to correct him as IC that I am conf!town by virtue of not having been CC'd?

i don't understand why you need to do this, or why anyone is still pushing your lynch

which strongly susggests loopscum and noodlescum

Why does it strongly suggest that? Why is Src then not scum also?

i admit i'm not fully caught up, but yes it would suggest that to.

imo as long as a claim isn't cc'd it's true, and town have nothing to gain to continue pushing the slot. if there is a cc, it will come out eventually, and then you lynch.

(of course that's not true for all matrix 6 setups cuz not all claims can be cc'd)

[Chronicle]

wait is src even voting you?

[Chronicle]

In fact I basically oppose Drixx being lynched here. If we're going to lynch for a Chronicle/Drixx team we should lynch Chronicle.

You'd end yourself with a town lynch and more apathy D2.

[Chronicle]

Anyway I'm on mobile so I can't do any ISO runs or expansive research, but based on the last few pages and what I can remember

I still like Noodle for town. Honestly with all the scumreads on him I've tried to reevaluate this read but I can't convince myself he's scum, outside of his reaction to the nancy claim. My first instinct was to unvote and wait for a CC, but the way he continued to push for it(like Loop) just read as scum desperate for a lynch.

Which brings me to Loop. Adding on to his play post nancy claim, I remember him posing questions through the game, so he's kind of had a tonal townread/gut town, but I haven't seen anything insightful from the slot honestly. So could be scum for the usual appearing to be scumhunting but not really doing anything. I really only thought about this post nancy claim.

Pine/Drixx: didn't care for Pine's play. Was never active enough to determine if he was lurking or if his attention was divided, never produced enough content and interactions(with me at least) for me to have a decent read. If nancy knows Pine's meta well enough, I'm all for sheeping. Regarding Drixx, I honestly can't tell y'all anything right now because I have paid very little attention to the slot, but gut town?

WhyMafia, although I pushed him for scum previously, his recent posts I like tonally. Thinking back he has this genuine tone that I've been cautious of, which could explain why I decided to push him for scum, but I don't think newbscum play like this. The perspective that he could be buddies with Pine/Drixx are interesting, but my thoughts on his play alone just make me think it's confbias reads.

Srceenplay is a probscum, going off what I remember from his play. I can't recall him taking strong stances, or forming any of his own significant stances. He's got a lot of sheeping and random jumping of votes, and I'm quite upset I'm only thinking about this now.

Am I forgetting someone

[Chronicle]

The AtE isn't even good because you're completely missing the point of why I even said that.

Not AtE, just saying

[Chronicle]

Actually I see what you meant then

But the fact that you've listed me as your preferred lynch a buncha times still makes that post relevant

[Chronicle]

Oh Tess

I'm not sure about Tess, I'll run his ISO

[Chronicle]

Skimmed his recent posts, I'd put Tess as nullscum because fluffy posting

[Chronicle]

Hello nancy

I've got some time now, and I got no guarantee I'll be around deadline, so talk to me for a bit then I'll throw my vote before going off to bed

[Chronicle]

How do you feel about the meta argument against you? I notice you've started naming gut reads since Void pointed it out, and your reads seem to be following mine a little wrt WM and Src. Thoughts?

Also, talk to me about your thought processes in this post? Why were you so ready to believe in scum!Noodle after spending most of the Day defending him? I realize that you've once again affirmed your TR there.

Don't have any particular thoughts. The difference is that I fucked that game with a bad D1 play, so I wasn't eager to throw a vote, and the games content made it hard to get a good read. Just couldn't get into it.

Void pointed out what? Most of them I've listed as gut because I'm going off my gut right now, not reading ISOs and thinking about them.

Hmm, possible that I may unknowingly have sheeped you on those because I read it and agreed with them. Are you concerned I'm buddying?

I just thought that his actions post youclaim didn't reflect town, because it opposed what I would have done. As much as I thought you were scum, it would be the worst idea to continue to push your lynch without a CC, because if scum weren't already on the wagon, the unneeded suspicion I would throw on the claim would only make it easier for scum and demotivating for town.

While I do think that was a scummy move, I still think he's town. His posting since he unvoted ring as genuine reevaluation, and I like it.

[Chronicle]

Skimmed his recent posts, I'd put Tess as nullscum because fluffy posting

Elaboration on this could be helpful.

I just skimmed his recent posts, that are pretty empty, promise on delivering but not really delivering. I would wait on that readlist, but with less than a day to deadline I don't think it will come. My failure to recall anything outstanding about the slot kinda makes me think he's been fluffing most the game and coasting.

A bit lazy to reaffirm this though, I don't like reading ISOs on mobile

[Chronicle]

Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true fyi

Like how you repeated multiple times that I never explained my Noodle read? Anything else you want to lie about?

What changed your mind about this?

Not sure what you're referring to here

[Chronicle]

@chronicle even now, my gut is screaming that nancy's scum. I'm waiting for doc to claim before deadline.

Yeah, don't think that's gonna happen

[Chronicle]

Talk to me about this sequence in retrospect? Didn't get much explanation from you at the time about your thought process there, and I never got much from wrt your scumread on my slot in the first place. Why were you scumreading me? Where do you think you went wrong in reading me?

I'm pretty confident Noodle is town, and the way your interaction with him played out I just couldn't see it as town vs town, and I didn't like how you responded to his posts(previously explained), and similar to how I've been cautious about WM due to his tone, I've been cautious about you because of your town. That, and I sheeped the wincon argument a bit.

I think I probably confbiased/played off of my emotions a bit too much, but granted I don't think your play has been obvtown. Towny, sure, but against Noodle whom I townread harder, and the whole noise that came with BP claims early game, it just ended with me thinking you were probably scum, and I ended up tunnelling from there.

[Chronicle]

Don't envy your foneposting btw. Not sure how you manage to cope with that.

I hate playing mobile too but I don't really have time with my computer often

[Chronicle]

I'm more concerned that the reads don't feel entirely genuine. Especially your read on WM. You've not addressed why any of your previous points against him were wrong, you've simply said that you like him tonally recently and that you don't think newb!scum would play the way he has been playing. (< Elaborate on this please.) With as sure as you've seemed all game, that's quite a shift.

It was probably a bit of OMGUS, a bit of me thinking he should be playing better because he's played before. My push on him wasn't the first thing on my mind, because I'm more concerned with what's happened postclaim and my read on Noodle. The list likely won't be very consistent, because it's heavily gut and heavily based on recent content.

I'll relook my WM push though since you're interested

[Chronicle]

Which posts specifically? What about them seem genuine to you?

I hate questions like this that make me jump between pages.

[Chronicle]

Page 40 has the stream of consciousness kinda vibe that I like.

[Chronicle]

Whether or not it's genuine is kind of a gut thing, but imagine being scum and having your strongest "scumread" claim PR, unCC'd. Seems kinda hard to make a good reevaluation post with a nice flow of thoughts, because imo it's hard to fake as scum

[Chronicle]

If you were tunneled on me why were you instead pushing WM all day, until I started pushing Noodle?

I only tunneled you after my WM push

[Chronicle]

I dislike his nightkill related posting, because it's just dumping suspicion.

Not sure what you've quoted is really representative of his recent reevaluation

[Chronicle]

Anyway my battery is running low, I'll come back to this game later

[Chronicle]

His reevaluation would only really have to happen in a significant sense wrt my slot because me being scum shouldn't affect other slots unless he was basing his reads heavily off associatives.

And alright, thanks very much for standing up to the inquisition. You're a hero regardless of alignment.

Hmmm, I'm not sure about Noodle specifically, but I feel reactions to your claim are pretty worthwhile for reevaluating reads.

[Chronicle]

Src/Loop
Drixx/WM/Tess

Lynch preference from top to bottom, left to right are in no particular order.

[Chronicle]

Well I'd prefer Src and Loop, but like I could compromise on the other 3 if there's anything compelling between now and deadline.

[Chronicle]

I see some dislike for Drixx on the Pine slot, but I feel like that's a metaread so I can't really get behind it. On the other hand, I'd trust people who have played with another player more to read them better than I can.

I'm kinda undecided on my WM read. I feel ok about him now, but I didn't always so I'm just sitting on it.

Tess....I could actually move him up one level with Src/Loop

[Chronicle]

Hypothetically speaking Chronicle, if you were scum and you found yourself at the top of people's lynch lists, would you bus your partner in an attempt to salvage some Town cred?

Am I already postured to bus?

[Chronicle]

I wouldn't bus even if I was in that situation though.

[Chronicle]

Am I already postured to bus?

Hm?

If I was already postured to bus my scumbuddy, and he was a potential lynch, then maybe. But pretty hard to say. I probably wouldn't though.

[Chronicle]

I think I'll be around before deadline. I'll hold out my vote until then

[Chronicle]

Hello

[Chronicle]

I don't have a strong opinion on Chronicle. I'll look into him. Mind linking me to the posts you find scummiest?

Their tone, from the meta you provided. I'll quote our interaction earlier into a wall and you can take from it what you will.

Just my tone?

[Chronicle]

Not genuine = scum motivated?

[Chronicle]

Is my push on WM bad because I let it go in my recent readlist?

What about my Noodle read doesn't feel genuine? Because I hold on to that strongly, but not my WM read?

And why does the meta he brought up have anything to do with this game? The way that game played is I pulled a gambit that fucked town over. 4v2 with one page of content is really hard to play.

This game is not that game.

[Chronicle]

You're not backing these up as much as I thought you would.

[Chronicle]

Why does it feel fake?

What's scum motivated about my interactions with Noodle? Do you read it as WK? Buddying?

[Chronicle]

Also, if I flip scum, what would you do D2

And if I flip town, what would you do D2

[Chronicle]

Anyway I'll be off for now, I'll be around at deadline

[Chronicle]

Src/Loop
Drixx/WM/Tess

Lynch preference from top to bottom, left to right are in no particular order.

Well I'd prefer Src and Loop, but like I could compromise on the other 3 if there's anything compelling between now and deadline.

This seems like you are okay with pretty much any lynch outside of StealthyNoodle. Why?

It's the read I'm most confident in?

[Chronicle]

Also, if I flip scum, what would you do D2

And if I flip town, what would you do D2

The (spiteful/mad) town version of this is: "When I flip town, then what are you going to do?" (note that this version offers no help to the claimed win con).

The proper town version of this is: "When I flip town, please consider X, Y and Zed." (in other words, give reads and info dump).

I don't believe any town version of the post includes a townie entertaining himself flipping as scum.

And who are you to tell me how I want to play as town

[Chronicle]

Okay, so I ISO'd Chronicle and read through the quotewall and I'm still null on the slot. I didn't find the defense of Noodle particularly scummy. It could easily be town that had a townread. I was mildly suspicious of Chronicle leaving their options open entirely and being ready to sheep nancy's Pine scumread. That combined with Drixx's latest post probably indicates that they're not partnered but I wouldn't bank on it. I re-read Chronicle's towngame again and the tone does seem to be a lot different than here and Chronicle's responses that the game was short doesn't really address that. I'm conflicted.

Stop reading me with my meta. I don't think the scumhunters game is gonna help you very much. And 1 game of meta is a stretch to get an accurate read

[Chronicle]

You didn't actually answer my 1259 though Chronicle. What was even the point of your post asking nancy what her reads would be if you were scum?

I was curious who she thought would be my buddy, but really it's not a question I posed with the intention of dismantling the scumread on me, or with any deep intention really.

[Chronicle]

Seriously though, Chronicle, it's not exactly pro-town to start attacking the flipped Town slot in twilight.. Just saying. Kinda scumping it a bit here.

I didn't even know we're in twilight?

[Chronicle]

I'm still reading

[Chronicle]

I can't count votes in mobile, so is Drixx hammered or not?

Skimmed the rest and from what I understood, he isn't?

[Chronicle]

Oh okay nancy was hammer

[Chronicle]

Anyway I'm exhausted, I'll just wait for the flips then rethink my reads.

[Chronicle]

I'll be on a computer during the weekends, so look into the last few pages then.

And I also realize the only informative flip will be Drixx lol

[Chronicle]

And who are you to tell me how I want to play as town

Ftr the "as town" here is entirely redundant as Town

???

[Chronicle]

In seriousness though, Chronicle, you can complain about people using meta against you, but this is a pretty fundamental thing that I'd strongly expect to be regular across games. You are way more laid back in your Town meta. Your reads are more natural. You're kinda stilted here.

I know, but meta off one game is unreliable, and how a game plays out vastly affects my play, as you can see then and I can see here. I'm a lot more happy with how I was playing here(until recently because how things have played I'm a bit burnt out), and I didn't like how I played then.

[Chronicle]

Nvm, suspecting Drixxnancy doesn't make sense after hammer went down.

Nancy is unCCed????????????????????????????

[Chronicle]

It could still be WhyMafia. It's not like scum would be naive enough to give up but I had to try. It could still be Chronicle doing a no-kill gambit since there wasn't actually a kill last night. We still have a pool of six to analyze. I don't want to get overconfident. I'm going to look over the game more closely this day phase.

I thought we came into D2 with 3 conftown but then I realised this. Reading up.

[Chronicle]

Wait, why wasn't there a kill tonight? Either doc is here and protected someone, or they went for nancy(BP)? Why wouldn't they try to kill tracker, when they're the only one left?

BP or a no kill gambit.

[Chronicle]

In case you're wondering why it's autowin btw, we have two Tracker clears by Day 3 plus, thanks to anti-bus^TM we know that Noodle and Tes have 0.00001% chance of being scum, meaning that the only slots left with any chance of being scum today are {Chronicle, Loopdan, Srceenplay, WhyMafia}. Even if we were to mislynch today, Town goes into Day 3 with 3 conf!towns and a scumpool of 2. So yes, autowin. But it's just WM so it doesn't really matter.

Does the track on me make me clear though with a no kill on our hands? I could be scum pulling a no kill, so it doesn't really clear me. Meaning we don't have a tracker clear today, so at best we'd only have a tracker clear tomorrow

Only provided the tracker doesn't die

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we're in auto win yet?

[Chronicle]

Prod dogdging because my data connection is dodgy tonight, but I'll be back on my pc in about 24h. I have skimmed though, and the voting shitshow was confusing.

So I apologize but I'll have to make yall wait a little longer for my catch up

[Chronicle]

Srceenplay why are you voting to no lynch when there's a confirmed tracker?

No Lynch is optimal when you're playing follow the Tracker, as long as the BP is alive.

Doc? BP?

[Chronicle]

I like 1637 btw, and going back to that post, looking at the Noodle post WM was responding to, Noodle brought up some Pine/WM interactions too

[Chronicle]

Slight FOS on TesXX and StealthyNoodle for that. Replacements usually offer a fresh perspective of the game so it's scum-sided to not want one.

I'd prefer to consider things like this as NAI honestly. Replacements can't answer for the actions of their predecessor, even if they do offer activity and fresh perspectives. I can see the pros and cons of both ends.

[Chronicle]

Nice

Hi Alisae

[Chronicle]

In case you're wondering why it's autowin btw, we have two Tracker clears by Day 3 plus, thanks to anti-bus^TM we know that Noodle and Tes have 0.00001% chance of being scum, meaning that the only slots left with any chance of being scum today are {Chronicle, Loopdan, Srceenplay, WhyMafia}. Even if we were to mislynch today, Town goes into Day 3 with 3 conf!towns and a scumpool of 2. So yes, autowin. But it's just WM so it doesn't really matter.

Does the track on me make me clear though with a no kill on our hands? I could be scum pulling a no kill, so it doesn't really clear me. Meaning we don't have a tracker clear today, so at best we'd only have a tracker clear tomorrow

Only provided the tracker doesn't die

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we're in auto win yet?

I too kinda suspected it given the NK

[Chronicle]

But I was kinda expecting nancy to be doc and not someone else. This works too though.

[Chronicle]

Loopdan was heavily softing Doctor

I did not see this though.

[Chronicle]

Just don't treat me as conftown then. A no result on a track is useless if there was no night flip

[Chronicle]

If you're hungry for the perfect town win, then I'd advise not. But if you just want to see if your read on me was right asap, then just go ahead. We can afford a mislynch anyway.

[Chronicle]

You would lose Alisae though.

[Chronicle]

Trading conftown for conftown, and we're not in autowin

[Chronicle]

Conftown being mechanically conftown, that doesn't really put you and noodle in conftown.

[Chronicle]

Heya void

Pedits Heya Noodle

[Chronicle]

That makes a lot more sense

[Chronicle]

Alisae why did you claim doc?

[Chronicle]

Can we just flashwagon

[Chronicle]

VOTE: Srceenplay

[Chronicle]

And I am all for getting this game over and done with.

UNVOTE:

[Chronicle]

Didn't u Sr Noodle most of D1 tho

[Chronicle]

If I counted right that isn't hammer

[Chronicle]

2017 post get

[Chronicle]

I've got no motivation to play currently, I'm just quietly following.

[Chronicle]

Should I buy myself a milk tea

In all seriousness, I'm trying to decide if you're town based off the u pick we just had, but given your play style a tonal read wouldn't be accurate

And your relationship with nancy doesn't help me really.

I'm really just rather watch Srceenplay flip, but holding off because Void doesn't want to yet

[Chronicle]

I've got no motivation to play currently, I'm just quietly following.

is it bcuz ur scumz?

nah

[Chronicle]

The u pick doesn't serve as good meta material though

[Chronicle]

I've got no motivation to play currently, I'm just quietly following.

is it bcuz ur scumz?

nah

r u sure tho

Yap :vt:

[Chronicle]

Sure