Mini 1898 - Inception Mafia - The Hub (GAME OVER)

[Not Chara]

hello everyone!
i have questions about rule wording. they'll have to be dealt with later, when it's easier to quote. but for now:

could exactly who is allowed to initiate a kick and in which level of dreaming be clarified?
additionally: am i correct in thinking that creating a dream thread involves a majority dream lynch on a player (provided there are at least five players in the thread)? the resulting dream is the lynched player's subconscious, and the players on the wagon join them in their dream?

[Not Chara]

i actually understand all of the mechanics. wonderful. it's going to be hard to sort people if there's confusion about this.
but, to be on the safe side:

players in limbo only count as dead for the purposes of win conditions, correct? so they would still get the perception boosts on a player being flipped.

[Not Chara]

3. You should cast the public actions (like a kick) publicly in the relevant topic and the private actions - if any - using PM's.

kicks are public.
private kicks would mean scum would use them constantly to take advantage of their double Perception gain, and to ferry town players to Limbo en masse.

[Not Chara]

we can only lynch in the main thread once, Leon. it isn't possible to concentrate our lynches there. the reasons to dream are that we're forced to.

[Not Chara]

let me attempt to reword the setup. this isn't a tl;dr, it's simply a rewording in case one wants the first post structured differently.

mods, there are questions within.

Spoiler:

there are three types of threads. the main thread, the dream threads that are created during the game, and the limbo thread.
we start in a main thread, all of us. this thread (like all of them) is private so that we can be removed from it when we are brought into a dream thread/limbo.
there are multiple 'levels' to the dreams, like in Inception. they max out at four, as the level after that would be limbo (though limbo is

not

a dream thread).

when someone is majority voted with a

Dream

vote, they and all the players on that wagon are removed from the thread they are currently in, and brought into the lynched player's subconscious, one level deeper than before. (main thread goes to dream level 1, dream level 1 would go to dream level 2)
you can not see the levels above you, but you can see the dream created from the thread you're currently in. if i'm in dream level 2, and some players created a dream that went to level 3, i can see

only

the dream level 2 thread and that level 3 dream. (but i could not see a different level 3 dream happening from a different dream level 2 than the one i'm in, hypothetically). i can post in level 2, but not in level 3, i can only see it. i lose visibility in dream level 1 as soon as i move to dream level 2, and i can't see the main thread. whether you can post in a thread is reflected in the first post, and should always be checked.

lynching a player in the main thread or the limbo thread results in them flipping and dying. lynching a player in any dream thread sends them immediately to limbo. a player can only be lynched in the main thread

once

in the entire game.

players in limbo are not dead, not flipped. however, they are treated as dead only for the purposes of win conditions. dreaming players are still considered alive for win conditions.

it is not possible to lynch any players in a thread if that thread contains dreaming players.

mod, check my understanding. dreaming players cannot read the thread they left, but they are still 'in' that thread due to this rule.

fourth level dreaming is special. these players are able to see and interact with players in limbo. each player in the 4th level dream can bring back one limbo player with them, when they move up to a higher dream.

mod: can players choose to spend perception to move up a dream level without a kick being initiated?

players start with 100% perception.

please also confirm this part for me.

moving up one level of a dream costs 20% perception. 2 is 50%, etc. it's in the opening post.
moving from a 4th level dream

straight

to the main thread costs 100% perception, but moving only from a 4th level dream to a 3rd level dream costs 20% perception (as they are moving up 1 level).

this is not explicitly stated, which is why it's only a guess.

a kick can be publicly executed on a player who is currently dreaming. (by being majority dream voted, as explained, or being on that wagon). this means, you are in a thread and someone else is asleep, and one dream level deeper than you. (for example, you're in dream level 1 and there is someone in your thread who is one level deeper). that dream will be forcibly ended. (including all subdreams, of course) all players within those dreams must attempt to escape by spending perception, and move up levels to safety. if someone does not have enough perception to escape, they move to limbo.
2 or less players in any thread, with no dreaming players in that thread, is grounds for an automatic kick that will move them up one dream level (provided they can pay the perception cost)

i've omitted some exact numbers for things, and other info from the first post, such as how to recover perception.

[Not Chara]

i mean, sure. but what does having only one lynch have to do with starting to hunt now? the two don't seem related. if we had normal lynching, starting now would still make sense.

[Not Chara]

thank you. :>

so to word it another way, it's impossible to leave a dream without relying on another player to kick you out?

and rewording your first answer: in a situation in the main thread where there has not been a main thread lynch yet, and there are dreams occurring in the game, no one in the main thread can be lynched until every dream is gone?

[Not Chara]

the above should refer to moving up out of a dream. i know a dream can be left by going to limbo or a deeper dream.

[Not Chara]

Everyone good with scummy players dreaming? Unless we get the entire scumteam into a 2nd- or lower-level dream, it should work. and even if we do get the scumteam, we can observe them so it's not like they can just all lynch town without a reason.

If we don't like the group for whatever reason we can kick and start another dream. Or if we think scum don't have a lot of perception.

i'd say it depends a lot of the situation. this also means that scummy players would have more (or the only) opportunity to pull players out of limbo, and send them there.

[Not Chara]

not to mention that forcing players onto any wagon is downright impossible. plus, there are roles that get power by going through dreaming levels.
no, i think that the entire game will stretch through all threads. that's what it's built for. we need good town players within the dreams as much as we need them out.

[Not Chara]

It's nightless and the available roles are semi-open (if I'm right about afflictions), so people should be open to claiming early on, at least if they have a role that benefits from being public knowledge (like investigatives). Then we can use that information to plan out who should enter which dream and what actions they should take. If people start getting roleblocked or similar, the dreams allow us to narrow down who's doing so. (I'm assuming that you can't effect things outside your dream. Though I bet some PRs allow you to effect things in a deeper dream level, but not above your dream level or laterally).

hm, i'm not sure.
i think claiming or not claiming would be up to the actual role and player discretion.
but i've never played a nightless. surely the scum will have other ways of targeting town roles that will cause trouble for them?

[Not Chara]

I don't know if we should use the main thread lynch first. The flip will be premier currency in this setup, we should save it for when we need it most.

i was thinking that it might be better to save the main thread lynch, but now i'm not so sure. since we can't even lynch while there are dreams going on, without kicking out everyone, it might be difficult to get a good opportunity to use the lynch.

i would also be worried about apathy from no flips early on. the day one lynch is important.

i think getting information from deeper dreams/limbo will be like playing telephone. it relies entirely on the paraphrasing of players who can see what's going on in the layers below.

[Not Chara]

i think it sounds very fun. all i can say for certain is there's no obvious strategy here. there are pros and cons to different dream approaches. :>
there's also a lot more incentive for scum to clump together on dream votes. it feels like this will just be something unique that we can't adequately prepare for. we just need to read the dreaming situations as they unfold.

pedit: as i understand it, you can only see the first level down. player in the main thread can't see a second-level dream.

[Not Chara]

actually i think that needs clarification, you might be right.

can you only see the dream spawned from the thread you're in, or can you see all of its subdreams too?

[Not Chara]

that's true.
but don't forget scum regain perception at twice the rate of town. and you have to dream pretty deep to take a big chunk out of their perception. plus, it's impossible to control how deep the dreaming players go once they've left the thread you're in. they can't read the thread above, so the players can't listen to input.

a point i do want to make is we

have

to send scum into dreams. we only have one main thread lynch. the only other way to kill scum is to shove them into a dream, then have then be lynched in that dream so they go to limbo. (and then, hopefully, lynched in limbo so they actually flip, though we can win without that.)
so thinking of it like that... we need to send both scummy players and strong town players into dreams to ensure the scum go to limbo.
basically, it's going to be really, really fun. (in theory)

[Not Chara]

Deadline never resets. Time up, game over.

oh. hm.
so, initiating a kick late game, if we're relying on a deep dream to stretch the deadline, could cost us the game.

this changes things. time is a precious commodity. at maximum, the deadline for the entire game is 2 months and 10 days, and that's assuming we have a fourth-level dream to stretch it. realistically, the deadline would be more like a month and 17 days (third-level dream).

so, we should decide on what to do when the game starts during the pregame, ideally.

[Not Chara]

Deadline is universal and runs at the speed of the deepest dream. If the dreaming party at the deepest level comes back from that dream, the deadline will be divided by 1.5 for each dream level difference.

time stretches, time shrinks.

[Not Chara]

we can use kicks in the beginning of the game. less as it goes.
also oh god i have to go to bed i can already tell this game will cause my death

[Not Chara]

i don't think sending everyone to limbo is even possible. try running a simulation with the dreaming rules, it doesn't work. you need 5 players to even create a new dream, and you can't send to limbo from the main thread.

[Not Chara]

Infinity: that last limbo isn't needed. at 5 players we can just lynch in the main thread again.

Leon: i don't find mechanics opinions AI. i'm pretty sure i would be just as interested in these ideas as scum. but you're right that we should start scumhunting.

mods: thank you for the answers.
sorry for those i mislead with my misunderstanding about recovering perception.
so, every player recovers the same amount of perception on a flip. if a town player flips, it's 5% recovered. if scum, it's 10%.

[Not Chara]

that rule disappears once we hit 5 living players.

[Not Chara]

....i

assume

that players in limbo count as dead for that particular rule, but honestly i have no idea.

mods: if there are 5 players in the main thread, no dreams, and 3 players in limbo, can we lynch in the main thread?

[Not Chara]

oh. so it's entirely possible to hit a fourth-level dream with the current rules.
i don't know how i missed. it's obvious when you think about it, that the majority (7 of 12) AND the player being voted to dream would make 8 in the dream in total. from there it isn't difficult to hit the drepest level.

Neko Tail: would it be possible to edit some of the rules where the wording is confusing? i've always understood when you've explained a second time, or clarified a question.

[Not Chara]

Neko Tail

:

You can only Lynch once in the game's main thread. If there are 4 or less players still alive, this restriction is no longer in effect (and thus, you are allowed to lynch freely in the main thread).

wasn't this 5 before, not 4? it's possible i'm misremembering.
besides that... i've read the edited rules. i appreciate the clarification on some of them, thank you. :>

[Not Chara]

what do players who aren't Infinity and Leonshade think of the rules?

[Not Chara]

let's play fake RVS. i want to get things done before the real timer starts.
VOTE: McMenno
i blame you for complaining about my /out and prompting me to rejoin this game.

[Not Chara]

i want extractor, infiltrator, or savior. infiltrator especially seems like it could be fun. i'm sure all the roles are at least somewhat useful, so i'm not too worried about that.
assassin would suck. i assume it's a killing role. not a fan of being wrong on a kill.

[Not Chara]

i think lynching scum in dream threads to take them to limbo is the main goal here, not kicking them until their perception runs out. the latter approach wouldn't be focused, it would hit all of the town in those threads too.

i'm not sure about the deadline thing. i'm hoping it's the former, but rereading it looks like it might be the latter.... this game could end up being very short.

pedit: it's not

black

, it's

Cyprus

.

[Not Chara]

edgy signature there, Hiraki.

[Not Chara]

mechanics discussion really nets no AI behaviour, huh? i can't find anything to push.
let's say McMenno is town.

[Not Chara]

I kinda want to put the entire town in a position where if they don't lynch scum, they won't be able to ride the kick back up, encouraging scum to bus to stay in the game, but it's a sort of high risk high reward thing. Not sure how to optimize it either.

i'm not sure this is possible.
players stuck in a dream thread can just lynch until their numbers are low enough to automatically be kicked.

but numbers aren't my strong suite so i wouldn't know how this would actually play out.

[Not Chara]

no, you can only lynch once in the main thread. you can lynch as many times as you like in other threads.

dream threads with two of less players in them that don't have offshoot dreams of their own mean those players experience an automatic kick.

[Not Chara]

if you're in a dream thread with no dreams within it, for example.
3 players are dreaming here, and then one is lynched. the remaining two players are then kicked from that dream, because that's too few players.

[Not Chara]

VOTE: end pregame

pls im not waiting 5 days to start

it's better to decide on a lynch before ending pregame. our deadline for the whole game is constrained and we lose if we go past it.

[Not Chara]

Persivul, you seem a bit different from when I've played with you before. Why do you think that is?

why do you think someone would act the same as a normal game, in a pregame where we've only be discussing complex mechanics so far?

Leon: it was an arbitrary choice. let's say Persivul is a townlean instead. less arbitrarily.

[Not Chara]

Before the actual start of the game, there will be 7 days reserved for mechanics discussion and the start of scum-hunting.

yes, the main point of this time is for the rules, but starting scumhunting here is pragmatic, not against the spirit of the rules. but i understand your point of view.
but, yes: if players are unclear on the rules, it can cause problems down the line if a town player does something 'scummy' that was simply because of a miscommunication, or if a mafioso uses a feigned misunderstanding to get away with something.

Hiraki can be a townlean.

[Not Chara]

Leonshade: Persivul for the post answering Infinity.
arbitrary townread because... i don't know, any kind of discussion. since we all have our alignments, i feel we're already playing mafia.
thread environment isn't like that however. maybe i'm wrong.

[Not Chara]

i don't mind dreaming or not dreaming. reading dream threads won't be as mind-numbing as rereading a thread because the posts are still happening right in front of you.

[Not Chara]

hello Almost! thanks for replacing in.

[Not Chara]

fuzzy: i'm curious about 'No not Almost'. bad game in the past? :>

[Not Chara]

every single player in the game is a PR, first of all.
secondly, i'm not saying we turbo-lynch randomly. i'm saying we have several days here. i maintain that this might be a pregame, but we all have our alignments so starting to scumhunt just makes sense.

my opinion

has

changed a bit from what it was before. i don't want to lynch out of the gate. if we want to use the first wagon/flip as a jumping off point it needs time to develop.

pedit: i see what you're saying. the chances of getting scum on the first try aren't fantastic. but we'll need flips eventually because no reveal is difficult.
voting for a dream first might be better to ease into things and get more information.

[Not Chara]

tell me what you think after reading through the whole thread, questions included.

[Not Chara]

now what have i done to deserve this treatment.

[Not Chara]

now what have i done to deserve this treatment.

OMG! Did you roll SCUM???

don't pretend to act surprised, 'partner'. ;>

[Not Chara]

Well, the first question I have is whether dreams vary depending on player (lynchee) or their affiliation.

barring affliction (role) differences, i'm fairly certain all dreams are the same. they essentially just move you to a new thread where you can't see the old one.

[Not Chara]

mechanics discussion really nets no AI behaviour, huh? i can't find anything to push.
let's say McMenno is town.

Why? That post above is terrible. Someone who hasn't done much at all casting shade on people who have done less.

i didn't take that post as casting shade. it was warning players who might be less active to either fix it or replace out. easily fakeable as scum, so NAI, but i wouldn't call the behaviour scummy.

napping now. be back in thread tonight.

[Not Chara]

Persivul can be town.

[Not Chara]

Nosferatu: i misunderstood the wording of the rules. scum gain perception at the same rate as town. on any flip, everyone gains 5% perception. if it's a scum flip, that nets everyone an additional 10%, for a total for 15% perception on a scum flip. scum get this as well, so there's no difference between living scum and town.

on Infinity: i could see town getting frustrated about this too, but i understand how the tone and execution does look a little over the top. i do like the way gerry pointed it out.
slight pings from Persivul agreeing with gerry's assessment then bringing up some posts to support it. that he brought them up after the fact makes it look a bit like he was digging for something to use.

right now i have mixed feelings on most of the playerlist. it feels like we've been playing for a lot longer and there should be something more concrete, but in reality i suppose we're just barely out of 'RVS'.

[Not Chara]

i don't remember if this was brought up before:
it's possible to organize a dream lynch, then when we have two threads running, lynching someone in the main thread with the remaining 4 players. but 3 would have to agree on the kill. in practice it would likely just be awkward.
the 4 in the main thread, even if they didn't lynch, could still scumhunt the dream and each other?

[Not Chara]

Neko Tail: could we theoretically create a dream with 7 players in it and 5 in the main thread from the start, provided one of the players on the dream lynch wagon is voting themself?

[Not Chara]

you know, you're right. i was overlooking that.

[Not Chara]

and that is why i didn't comment on Almost not having read the rules. ;>

[Not Chara]

does Infinity know you that well?
i think he did believe you weren't going to read them.

[Not Chara]

what's everyone's opinion on 7 people going into the first dream (meaning the dreamer has to dream lynch themself), and 5 being left in the main thread? then we can lynch in the main thread and get something useful out of it, while still moving forward with scumhunting in the dream.

[Not Chara]

oh. yes, you're right Leonshade. i'm annoyed that i forgot that.

[Not Chara]

we can also lynch in the main thread with four people there?

we could also have two first level dreams in that case though hmmmm

doing two first-level dreams is an idea.
it does leave a single player in the main thread with nothing to do but spy on both dream threads. but i think situations like that are going to quickly become unavoidable anyway.

[Not Chara]

the second dream could only have 3 people instead. that would solve that problem.

[Not Chara]

the player lynched within the dream doesn't have to be the one dreaming.

[Not Chara]

doing two first-level dreams is a bad idea.

Corrected!

What if the 7 dreamers included NO SCUM? That's 2 guaranteed mislynches. The 7 dreamers (on the first dream) will mislynch because there are no scum there. The second dream will be scum driven and they control the majority as well, so another mislynch there. And that's just the easiest deduction out of multiple possibilities. Now feel free to so the math with 1, 2 or all 3 scum being in the first dream.

what do you suggest we do instead?

[Not Chara]

is that so strange? perception would become immediately relevant if anyone tries to bring someone back from limbo. or if abilities result in dreams being kicked, or needing to be kicked, or other things affecting perception.

it's a mechanic with several rules that interact with the others, and can send players to limbo. even if it isn't the most important facet of the game, i'm sure it will be plenty relevant.

[Not Chara]

especially in late game.

[Not Chara]

despite all this discussion about the optimal day 1 play, i'm happy so long as we get at least one dream going before we use our main thread lynch. past games say getting the entire game to agree on a highly specific course of action will be an exercise in futility.

[Not Chara]

Infinity, the entire game is based around going into dreams so we can lynch players. i really don't find it unlikely that plenty of players will be going in and out of dreams and having to watch their perception. and that isn't thinking about situations where scum players could kick anonymously and hurt town that are farther into the dream. there's a lot we don't know about the roles in this game. you can't guarantee anything when we only have the mechanics.

[Not Chara]

i'm really not the type to be able to identify the overall optimal play here. it's just not in my skillset. i could think of ideas that might

work

, but i can't predict how well in practice.

and, what Persivul said.

[Not Chara]

why should we put 7 people in a dream if we're just going to recall & lynch one of them anyway? why not just lynch them before setting up the first dream? deadline extending?

because we're not recalling and lynching one of them, that would definitely be pointless. the players that go into the dream are going to lynch and send someone to limbo.

at least, i assumed that was the idea.

[Not Chara]

oh, i see what he's saying.

who is dreaming

must

matter or it wouldn't matter whose dream we were in. it would just be a group of players in a new thread. that we have to choose and vote a specific player to get a dream thread indicates there's probably some mechanical importance to that.

[Not Chara]

I mean... There must be a way to force players into a dream, otherwise scum could just win by refusing to dream

you mean this as an explanation for why we have to vote someone to dream, right?

[Not Chara]

i'm not seeing much more i want to discuss right now.

i won't vote to skip pregame, however. we can 'start' the game with proxy votes and then actually vote once the timer begins for real.
gerry: just saw your question. all of the roles in this game have original names, Assassin is likely a killing role but there's nothing to suggest it's the assassin from another site.
i agree that massclaim probably won't be useful to us, but it depends on the roles. if scum have a way of using abilities without being detected (highly likely), they could still mess with town's PRs after the massclaim even without a nightkill.

[Not Chara]

that's not quite the question Leon asked. he wanted to know if you can go into the dream of someone while you are currently in their dream, not just re-enter theirs after leaving it.

[Not Chara]

@Chara: I cannot decide whom I would be voting to DREAM w/o actually knowing my affliction and having an idea of how the dreamer affects the dream. Do I know more about you if I'm in your subconsciousness? Or do you -maybe- have more control over it since it's yours? If My affliction says I can do one thing in level X dream it will also help me decide. Right now I can only "hope" I'm developing the right reads over alignments, but that's just about it and I'm often wrong on D1 anyway.

that's fair, you'd want to know more before deciding who to dream.

but i don't think the mechanics should have much to do with early-game scumreads. but i've not managed a single actual scumread (even a minor scumlean) this pregame phase, so maybe it just isn't happening yet.

[Not Chara]

VOTE: end pregame
i suppose one more day won't make much difference if what we've done so far hasn't netted any real alignment information.

[Not Chara]

well, i've not gotten anything i'm happy with. normal RVs in a game usually gives me more than this from the arguments that develop.

[Not Chara]

that's what i'm doing. i want to dream first.

[Not Chara]

that might've helped, it was a good environment to slip in as it was.

go town for winning.
i was wrong on all of Mathblade, Hiraki, and gerry. stellar play, Chara.

how'd scum kill BTD?

[Not Chara]

i'm glad this ended when it did because i could lose internet for 24 hours tomorrow.

[Not Chara]

like, all of my reads were wrong and i was one of the unviersal townreads. i have to reevaluate for later games. basically, i can't meta math as town just for being disagreeable, i should have realized Hiraki's apology over his mistake was too much and seemed to be damage control, and i shouldn't have let gerry coast just because of an early townread.

that we won besides that does indicate how townsided it was. possibly. though i know other people had better reads than i did. i thought it wasn't but just a small grouping of town completely destroyed it. the only kill scum got off was on someone who no one actually trusted, and was only alive due to their claim.

[Not Chara]

Gj gerry, you fooled all of us. Still think the setup was very townsided, if scum was townread that widely in a normal game there's no way town could've won.

changing the rules midgame to give that poor team a chance also indicates that.
scum would've benefited from factional abilities from the start. especially since the only barrier in front of the cop was perception and a single miller/godfather. and there were a lot of ways to deal with perception.

[Not Chara]

I think this setup is a good example of how if the mechanics are too complicated it takes away from the game. Even if it was balanced (which would be very hard to do with a setup this complex), we were focusing too much on mechanics instead of scumhunting. I think we were right to do so, but it just made the game less fun imo.

yeah we spent a lot more time arguing about optimal strategy instead of scumhunting. it was pretty draining.

having us lose if the deadline went through also added a

lot

to the stress. feels a bit like a bandaid to give scum a chance instead of a mechanic?

[Not Chara]

Factional ability given to us halfway through the game. Pretty much if we left BTD6 alive it was no longer Mafia.

Good eyes on the slip Not Chara. I was kinda hoping you'd forget.

i'm surprised no one else picked it up.

i'm not usually an advocate for slips but that one didn't have any other explanation. i think if you'd left it there instead of posting "but if you can, don't post it" i would have been way less confident of it even being a real (or faked) slip.

[Not Chara]

when Hiraki responded the way he did to the slip, it almost discouraged me from pursuing it any further due to potential embarrassment. if i'd been in a vacuum with no other players to give feedback i might have backed down.

considering how we had the game one with like 3 conftown, however, i'm not sure it would have mattered. but Hiraki going to limbo instead of being main thread lynched would have added some uncertainty and no conf-town Leonshade, so maybe not.

speaking of, McMenno's role was too powerful. in town hands it immediately made him impossible for scum to lynch, and if he hit suspicion later he could just die and bring someone else back.

i did like my role a lot. pity we didn't lynch at all until we were lynching

everyone

at once, or i would have gotten to use it.

[Not Chara]

no, that was Almost. ;> i only helped by being trustworthy. no idea why this game was the one where that happened.

no hard feelings, it was fun. but next time don't do it until you're dead and flipped. it convinced me that the cop on you was correct. otherwise i might've gotten it in my head to try and help you, and doubt the slip too.

[Not Chara]

Oh, I was right on Infinity after all haha.

There were some really unique and interesting ideas in this setup, but by the time we got down to one scum, winning was pretty much inevitable. Maybe it's a matter of results bias, but it seems like this setup can be won by getting a handful of strong townreads and killing everyone else. I'd be interested in playing a similar setup again (the idea of entering someone's subconscious would be really fitting for a game based on flavor like Psychonauts or Persona), but nightless plus infinite lynches is pretty town-sided.

inspectorscout, can i note this subconscious idea down for a Psychonauts game? Leonshade is right, it would be very cool.

pedit: you kept a good attitude considering that, gerry.

[Not Chara]

and asking Leon too, he suggested it.

[Not Chara]

did Hiraki have any other abilities? besides 1-shot manipulating who was in a dream? it seemed so weak compared to the others who had either multiple different shots or unlimited/continuous abilities.

[Not Chara]

Mathblade: you're right. without kills there's much less reason not to massclaim.

[Not Chara]

i cant believe math slipped and almost got away with it lmfao

the real mystery is how i managed to remember that the next morning after posting at 3am.

...fuck. it's 4am now.

pedit: haha, i'd hide that too.

Leonshade: sure, i'll note that too. going to finish my Binding of Isaac mini theme before even beginning to approach something like this, though.

[Not Chara]

Frozen: no problem with the error, it was resolved quickly.
i'm looking forward to seeing those notes. i agree that there were a lot of cool ideas.

gerry: sure thing. provided Frozen/inspectorscout give the ok.

pedit: there it is! thanks. <3

[Not Chara]

can someone tell me why i was obvtown? needed for future scum games. i think it was because i was genuinely harried by the deadline and actually understood what was going on most of the time, but confirmation would be good. a lot of my reads were centered around that because of how little scumhunting (relatively) there ended up being.

[Not Chara]

yes the flavour was amazing.
i loved how well the afflictions matched with characters/concepts from the movie, too. i could understand what they were all going for, and the dreams being unique to the players with minor tweaks to make them more fun was really interesting.

pedit: those changes would also have made it a lot weaker.
though how does mafia remove the cop without revealing themselves in doing so? one mafioso would also need to sacrifice.

and really Frozen, not a problem. it was an easy-fix, anyone getting the PM would have realized the issue and resolved it too.

[Not Chara]

are you all excited for the subconscious mechanic or the Psychonauts part?

[Not Chara]

i do wish i could have been mafia in this game.
but i wish i'm mafia in every game. so.

pedit: i was townreading you for leaving those rails. won't make that mistake again. when Mathblade believes something, they believe it.

[Not Chara]

Mainly the way you approached reading people and solving the game. I could tell there were things going on in your head that you didn't state outright. There were probably other things, but I'd have to look back.

appreciate the answer. i want to do whatever it is i did a second time.

Infinity: i was scumreading you some for your opinion that it was townsided. i see it was justified in hindsight, but at the time i thought you might know something the town who were discouraged didn't, and didn't have that bias that town might have. of course i should have been more discerning and gerry is the proof.

[Not Chara]

anyone who would like to discuss the dream mechanic further and how it could be improved should definitely do so here or contact me about it.

[Not Chara]

scout: thanks for tolerating my, what, 20 PMs in the last 48 hours of the game?

[Not Chara]

Heh
I've known worse
When you're designing your game, you can ask me as a reviewer.

Scum hss 24 hours to request redactions before it gets released. No, dreaming will not extend that deadline.

hahaha, don't say that. i'll take it as a challenge.

and thank you! i'll ask when that time comes and hope you have time.

pedit: noted. i'll think about alternatives.

[Not Chara]

I'm considering something that involves just giving every player their own private thread they always have read/write access to in addition to a public main thread. As players entered/left a subconscious they would get access or lose it.
So it would lose the Inception-esque levels aspect, which could lower the complexity.

I'm heavily inspired by this game, don't get me wrong. It had fantastic component ideas.

[Not Chara]

oh god, i'm writing with sentence capitals in the document and it leaked onto a site-post. i have to go to bed before i make any more blunders involving my crafted posting style.

pedit: yes, that's the idea.
i'll see how exploring Psychonauts flavour gives me ideas on what would be fun for people.

[Not Chara]

this is just the perfect excuse to finally get Psychonauts for PC.
i'm tempted to put Binding of Isaac on hold and concentrate here, but it might be better to have a more normal mini theme under my belt before attempting to run something with so many PTs.

everyone: i did have fun! even if my mood wasn't the best all of the way through the game.

[Not Chara]

the whole game i kept thinking that it would be boring and frustrating to be town in McMenno's position, but that it was optimal to have town there.

and thank you, Varsoon. your were on-base a lot more than i was.

[Not Chara]

Employer was fuzzy. could definitely have used that on BTD, even after he had died.

[Not Chara]

Almost: thanks. i try to be open-minded, which isn't difficult when i second-guess myself all of the time. if you weren't here i don't know how this would have gone.

[Not Chara]

the watered-down version i got from fuzzy

did

work on dead people, since it targeted Afflictions and not players. that's how i got my Weak Limbo Cop shot after BTD was killed.

[Not Chara]

i don't know the actual role. my guess is either a 1-shot ability to copy a stated affliction completely, or else use a power of theirs.
i was confused at first because i stole a power steal, haha.

[Not Chara]

Frozen: i'll be sure to contact you about it. thanks.