THE REST OF YOU FEEL FREE TO JUST SKIP THIS MESS FROM PAGE 239 TO HERE IF YOU WANT. IT'S JUST ME AND TITUS FIGHTING AND I THINK SHE COULD BE SCUM AND SHE THINKS I COULD BE SCUM.
IF YOU WANT TO READ IT...HAVE FUN.
pagetop
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
@titus,can 100% verify all that's been said Bout me. What you also cat see is our occasional 'oh god you fucking better be town or I'm going to feel such a fool' posts in the p t , which are way too genuine to fake and also would take a worldclass scum player to eve think about creating in that way.
If we promise not to lynch aelita tomorrow, barring a guilty or whatever, can you night action someone else? This protection arguement feels really , really dumb and at best motivated by ego, not town!feels.
(Also, I call bullshit on you not realising I've had more than. Ten posts today. I've directed more than that explicitly in the direction of you and aelita. Right now I can't work out if you are lazy, bad, or scum. Because your words and actions don't match).
Not sure if you've noticed, but you want the third link needed for confirmation chain (Dunnstral) gone, therefore making the whole process useless. So yeah, try again.
In post 6152, Bellaphant wrote:If we promise not to lynch aelita tomorrow, barring a guilty or whatever, can you night action someone else? This protection arguement feels really , really dumb and at best motivated by ego, not town!feels.
No. My cop is also who I am bonded with and I want to bond with obvious town to me.
In post 6155, Titus wrote:Aelita, look can you case Vecna? I think that'll do more for sorting than displaying your intelligence by being antagonistic.
I'll try, but I am not good at this stuff, and my reads are out of whack. Case in point: Skybird slip-up in SU. That's why I demoted myself to sheeping people I know are good at this.
In post 6155, Titus wrote:Aelita, look can you case Vecna? I think that'll do more for sorting than displaying your intelligence by being antagonistic.
I'll try, but I am not good at this stuff, and my reads are out of whack. Case in point: Skybird slip-up in SU2. That's why I demoted myself to sheeping people I know are good at this.
In post 6155, Titus wrote:Aelita, look can you case Vecna? I think that'll do more for sorting than displaying your intelligence by being antagonistic.
I'll try, but I am not good at this stuff, and my reads are out of whack. Case in point: Skybird slip-up in SU2. That's why I demoted myself to sheeping people I know are good at this.
EBWOP
I get it. I know you're figuring out what went wrong but your play there was better, even if wrong. It's ok to be wrong. You still gotta try.
In post 5781, Vecna wrote:Also i havent seen a single game where you do not defend your townreafs titus. Youve been defending heart, giga, dunn and a bunch of other people.
You actively tried to stop dunn's lynch. You actively shaded me for my scumreads on the active posters.
Your defensing and shading is selective.
No shit. I protect town and lynch scum. By definition that's selective.
This post reeks.
yeah this was a bad post but i'm oddly ok with the way he's waffling on me?
My scumreads aren't getting lynched today. Vecna went back to yuck posting and I largely don't give a shit since the things that need to happen for my reads to move aren't happening.
oh ok
honestly i dont even know any more
It was NOT a bad post. Stop agreeing with titus because its convenient if youre town. Read my posts on titus, think about the arguments, dont just mindlessly shade it.
Titus is scum this game. Her reactions and actions in so many areas are disingenuous and different from her towngame.
In post 5935, Eddiebyte wrote:like if vecna flips town that doesn't change the fact dunn is probably scum
i want aelita's alignment confirmed so sure i'll avoid voting him today but come d3 (or d4 if we confirm me i guess?? at that point i would think scum screw up with this though) i'm going to tunnel tf out of him
Stop lining up mislynches. Ill flip town, and dunn probably will as well after that.
If u want responses youll soon get em. Ive already stated im on a trip and restricted to phone posting which i hate with a passion.
Id throw in a "wake up town" for good measure, but w/e. A titis lynch is one of those things i guess is pointless to try and push for since youre only gonna start reading any anti titus arguments when its approaching lylo and youre suddenly starting to wonder why a cop claimed titus aint floating upaide down yet.
In post 5959, Fro99er wrote:Titus is almost probably scum for that made up read on me.
I'm asking her how my reads make me and Vecna scum together, and instead of responding, she just says I'm flailing.
DON'T FALL FOR THAT SHIT
DUDE IVE BEEN SAYING THIS ALL GAME.
YET EVERYONE is shading every post i make, including you.
Its no surprise that titus names 3 names she wants to lynch day1, wheres shes pushes very hard for two of them and seems very hesitant aboit the third one - which then happens to flip scum.
at least give me the chance to have an actual conversation with vecna because i have no clue what the fuck was going on in his head from his last post (town or scum).
like if we lynch dunn right now i'll have no clue where to go from there because from the way he's playing i'm pretty sure he's trying to get bussed (or, if he's heavily wagoned, he will be bussed) so i still need to sort out all of my reads
Allow me some timento get back hone and have a proper conversation? Ill answer any question you might have.
THE REST OF YOU FEEL FREE TO JUST SKIP THIS MESS FROM PAGE 239 TO HERE IF YOU WANT. IT'S JUST ME AND TITUS FIGHTING AND I THINK SHE COULD BE SCUM AND SHE THINKS I COULD BE SCUM.
Spoiler: every post of Bella's on D2 with my read and reactions. I've already talked about her D1 play
In post 4687, Bellaphant wrote:i# have read up and am going to have a muc better day two.
Null. Bella is a better later game player.
In post 4708, Bellaphant wrote:Aelita, your read hasn't progressed at all? Can you tal to me bout the rest of your reads?
with all the info in the document, waiting for everyone to check in before we leap to any conclusions.
This is bella observing that someone's read list hasn't progressed and trying to push this for more info about why. I see this as town motivation. Instead of just accusing Aelita of being scum, bella's trying to get a read by forcing Aelita to interact.
In post 4713, Bellaphant wrote:Aelita, can you link me to that's readlist and any explanation you've given?
In post 4724, Bellaphant wrote:No, I'm trying to apply logic to the statements 'I migh be being buddied' and 'I can't tell you where'.
^ one of the towniest posts titus has made.
Bella trying to figure out why Aelita's two statements don't make sense. Scum bella would probably just take Aelita's word for it or totally disbelieve it and push it instead of trying to mentally sort it.
Also, the part where Bella says this is a town post by Titus is interesting because it shows Bella is trying to actively sort Titus. Bella has waffled on Titus all game and this is just another example of the waffle. Scum!bella is more of a tryhard and would be casing Titus if she really thought that was an angle she could push.
In post 4775, Titus wrote:I kinda wanna back away from the role mechanics for a bit.
Agree; we should be looking at the lynch
I am convinced that at least two scum were on that wagon.
With his play that useless (only a bit worse than mine) it's competently inconceivable to me that scum didn't bus the fuck out of the slot.
Do you agree?
if you do.... how on earth are you using 'the lynch' to find scum?
if you don't...why not?
Bella and I talked about this in our PT, but it makes total sense for scum to bus shiqf if it looked inevitable. It doesn't mean it's guaranteed to happen, and bella and I could be wrong, but it's me and her trying to figure out if scum really did bus. Again, it makes sense that IF scum were to bus, it's a useless shiqf that provides less info than other lynches, and who can't kill. so if somehow we lynched the other 3 scum first, and shiqf was left alive with like 5-7 people left, the only way shiqf wins is through town lynches since they can't night kill.
In post 4808, Bellaphant wrote:@dun, Nope, you claimed in the 25 pages between where I read, and where I posted, as i found a thing from frog to reply to. I re-read everything overnight,
anf iirc you were taling about titus?
You can't push me for not being here and not knowing what was going on, and then for vote parking at the same time.
I'd like someone I can talk to bond with me overnight.
Bella makes some points against Dunn. This is either-alignment bella.
@titus, what's a trap? explain it to me like i'm five?
Bella has been back and forth on Eddie, so to say eddie wanted D1 over is pro fucking town is interesting because she could just pretend it's not, like other people are doing (cough, Dunn, cough) if she was scum. Or this only makes sense if Eddie and Bella are a scum pair. But given her waffling on Eddie I don't think that makes sense.
These two go together and show bella know's whats up with my action. It's null, but it's possibly pro-town given I didn't tell her in our PT that I didn't want her to out that we actually did bond yet. Probably doesn't make sense to the rest of you.
In post 5059, Bellaphant wrote:The JJ pushes are generally awful though and him being counter wagon to scum surely suggests town? Also there was an interesting early shifq push that fell apart, that I will be clearer on when not phone posting.
P-edit, this is kind of what I was saying about bussing but got told 'no' by giga and 'no effect you' from Dunn. At least Titus is considering shit.
Bella pushing this angle that JJ is a counterwagon is only scum motivated if, as Titus believes, JJ and Bella are scum together. As town it surely is an observation that a lot of town make (including myself which I made this exact observation in Bringer mafia 2 when Sheep got lynched as scum and was the "counter" to Lowell -- who ended up also as scum and Lowell rode that cred to a lylo win)
In post 5109, Bellaphant wrote:....Yeah, that was where my notes about the early shiqf wagon come in. The conversation that came after it/around it is super interesting as well:
P55, trans votes shifq pretty randomly. By 56, so does fire, and so does frog because 'sheeping fire'. heart says shiqf is scum (doesn't vote) but says people won't go for it because it's easy. Jj then pipes up - why aren't we wagoning Eddie any more, Eddie's vote (possibly on shiqf) is bad, what is the case on shifq. ali tries to engage shiqf in a super towny way
Jj mentions going after random and is called out by trans for a lhf read.
Votes fl off shifq super quick - frog votes trans when he says frog is sheeping him on shiqf, then quickly unvotes.
This whole early wagon makes me consider I've been reading trans wrong at the end of the day. If jj flips scum, i can't see eddie ALSO being scum.
But I don't think jj is scum. he consistently tries to move the game forward and has responded well to pressure.
Reconsidering her Transcend read and her JJ read and her Eddie read. How is this scum motivated to reconsider the game state upon re-reading something?
hey, earlier you said vecna should be better than this. so should you.
This is pointed bella. Pointed bella is, based off my extensive experience with her as town, is town rather than scum. The "look, i'd love to actually talk to you about shit, but your tunnel on me is boring and lazy" is not something scum!bella ever says. The one time she rolled scum, she was a total tryhard and didn't make these pointed statements. Meta read that you don't have to believe me on, but this is actually a TONE thing I CAN read for once.
Honestly, a lynch in you/jj/dunn would sort so much of the game for me. why shouldn't it be you?
@trans - i've actually read everything! is there anything you wanna chat about?
This is at Titus. And she's reconsidering a Titus lynch again after saying Titus towned it up with a post. I mean, the waffle on Titus is so huge that she has to really be playing her best scumgame ever to fool me like this around her actual attempts to FIGURE THIS GAME OUT. She's trying to sort, she seems a bit lost, but thinks a flip can help. That's fucking town.
In post 5141, Bellaphant wrote:@dunn, i'm not voting you? like i said, stop making shit up. Making shit up is a pretty good reason for me to vote you though, no?
@eddie, frog is occasionally pushing my 'omg, paranoia' buttons, but you are right about the emotion read. I genuinely believe he's trying to sort the game, but I think his reads are in flux right now? Like, the shiqf wagon stuff was in my notes to talk about, so i can see the thought process coming from town.
' like if we stuck to our guns and stayed on jj yesterday we'd still be pushed on being off the wagon because of shiqf's role' talk to me about this?
Bella has correctly sorted my reads are in flux. Hers are too. BTW, we're talking behind the scenes in our bond, and I can honestly say in our Bond PT she's also trying to actively sort the game. She just works better in 1 on 1 situations with people she likes. This is how we fucking solved Numbers Mafia (Plotinus' mini normal). Town bella worked together with town!me in a neighborhood to figure shit out and win that game for town. THIS IS HOW TOWN BELLA OPERATES. Need proof? I'll fucking link the game (or go to the mini normal archives and find Plotinus' Numbers mafia game).
In post 5147, Bellaphant wrote:jj, i don't think you strongly townread me, but I'd be good to bond with you?
Dunn I WAS BEHIND. I'm not now. jesus fucking christ are you just trying to make this game literally miserable for me? Lke, that's all your shitty shitty push is achieving.
Pissed off at dunn's bullshit push which is bullshit.
Trying to sort Ali around this whole JJ/Ali/random thing. I think bella thinks if Ali can provide info around whether Ali is interested in sorting her, it'll help bella sort ali better? IDK.
In post 5213, Bellaphant wrote:i can't work out if my reluctance to lynch eddie is because he's the only one of titus/dunn/eddie that actually engages me
@jj, i'll submit?
This is town. Titus and Dunn are not actively engaging her. Just calling her scum with no legitimate reasons other than "she opposed the TB wagon"
In post 5235, Bellaphant wrote:I am super into vecna's posting on this page. I normally hate nca so maybe I'm conf!biasing
This is only scum Bella if it's Vecna and Bella scumteam, which Titus I guess believes is possible? I mean, if Titus doesn't think Vecna is scum anymore (and TB is Vecna), then surely her reason for scumreading Bella for defending TB/Vecna slot shouldn't be valid at this point? Because that was strictly a preflip association made by Titus. That's probably also why Bella calls Titus' read on her stale in one of the earlier posts.
In post 5294, Bellaphant wrote:Day one bellaphant is lynch bait. Day two Bella isn't, so either Titus and Dunn are gonna get bored soon, or they are gonna start to look worse than they do already.
Honestly though, considering how strong the town is, I'm not surprised if scum are demotivated.
Her first sentence about lynchbait is factually true. As scum, I've twice gotten her near lynched or lynched D1 because she IS lynchbait on D1.
In post 5454, Bellaphant wrote:Aelita - you've spent more words discussing other games than this one.
Either you want to sheep titus because you hav no reads and thoughts of your own about THIS game, in which case, stop shitting up the game, OR, actually engage in this game.
Can we shoot this?
have we had a vc recently?
I think bella is angrily townreading Aelita at this point, hence calling for a vig (when as of right now there's no evidence for a vig) rather than a lynch which is interesting given how D1 started and she was pressureing Aelita. Shows an evolving read and a legitimate attempt to sort.
I spent most of yesterday thinking dunn was scum. The nightkill actions make much more sense if dunn i scum - why isn't he dead? also, since today he's literally made shit up about me, and when i got defended implied frog was scum, was a completely fabricated read.
Early yesterday, eddie was scum. He towned it up under pressure and did a really good analysis of his wagon. a few things really worry me about him, but he's the only one in my scum!pile that's engaging with me clearly, so it's making me hesitant. I can go int pingy things about eddie more if you want?
Bella explaining her reads when asked. Null, but it does show how she evolved on Eddie.
I looked at bella's iso and thought she was voting me because her last vote was 3000 posts ago
Never said anything about you being scum
And then you admit it
Ugh.
Titus, i don' see how your scum!team works together. how are you rationalising that in your head?
Also, what has menno done that isn't coasting?
also, i'm 'mathmatically' scum? hmmm?
I'd love you to lock sort me, titus.
Inviting titus to actually sort her instead of resorting to a 3000 post stale read. This is trying to get info from Titus as much as it is about defending herself.
In post 5600, Bellaphant wrote:no titus, come, on. the post to random honestly made it look like you were considering shit.
and now i get 'his iso' and 'poe' and 'desperate' without any follow through. fucking give me something.
also, why am i the one in our relationship that's, you know, actaully making the effort to sort the other? because i've had hangovers more fun than trying to engage with you and aelita.
Bella is trying to actively engage titus and have titus give her real reasons and things. She's considering Titus could be considering shit UNTIL titus gave reasons that really didn't look like considering shit. Bella is considering all options, not pigeonholing Titus into either scum or town. SHE'S ACTIVELY FUCKING TRYING TO READ TITUS AND FIGURE TITUS OUT. SHE'S GIVING TITUS EVERY LAST BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.
Also, bella is doing her obvtown thing where she makes a good point in a total sarcastic manner. This is 100% town bella if I ever had a doubt, it's this post. (that's also why I responded I love you B -- it was to this post).
In post 5602, Bellaphant wrote:bc you're scum read on me is 175 pages old. And you haven't engaged with me properly once.
In post 1663, Vecna wrote:Titus, wanna bond with me? You can be the active bonding member. You wont even have to speak at all.
The fact im offering to bond with you has allready towncleared me. Anyone that ever has played a game where we were in it together knows this as a fact.
Gorkington, you will now publicly town-clear me or accept that you are confirmed scum.
Lets see, who else do we got......
Ok, im town.
So, we doing this bonding thing Titus?
Tries to dictate actions and does self-meta in order to town-clear themselves.
In post 1666, Vecna wrote:Also, I have finished reading page 2, and Alisae is most definately scum.
VOTE: Alisae
Seems town here, because this reminds me of certain other player.
Bella hoods are great tho we crushed our last hood
PEdit: But I am le towns
Happy to see Frogger in another game, his departure in the last one was too soon. I feel like we might get a second chance at that town-circle thing. No mathblade in sight. No ABR either. Score.
In post 13, Alisae wrote:I'm sorry my long lost love, we can't bond.
DO NOT BOND WITH ME. IT WILL NOT WORK
The -irony- here is biting. Its like a full-on reverse from civ. Well basically half a full-on reverse. Im crumbing my role here.
In post 82, Alisae wrote:Fiiiiiiiiire
staaaaaawp
trolllllling
meeeeeeeeee
You're burnin my roses ;~;
You keep trying to buddy me!!!!!
But I read your sig!
I am nervous of your scum game!
Requesting Titus' opinion over this Firebringer opening. Im not used to such frivolous openings from the slot. Its allready feeling well scummy at this point. Opinion Titus?
In post 94, Alisae wrote:Oh yeah, this playerlist is fucking lit.
This is going to be a good, high quality game.
Famous
Last
Words
In post 111, Alisae wrote:Red like roses fills my dreams and brings me to the place you rest.
White is cold and always yearning, burdened by a royal test.
Black the beast descends from shadows.
Yellow beauty burns gold.
In post 112, Heartless wrote:ok just need to bleach off the ball gags real quick
eyes wide shut tuesday got a little out of hand last time...
Honestly, at this point im just quoting a lot of posts to make this wall look big and impressive since obviously nothing interesting is happening on the first x pages. Lets see if anyone is actually reading this stuff and calling me out on this. Also, kinky.
Better than to get Titus'd and being forced to suddenly read 100 pages as a townclear.....which is kind of giving me a deja-vu, since im a townclear this game as well. You guys just dont know it yet.
In post 139, Aelita wrote:Give me one good reason to vote me for pointing out something known to public.
It's a mix of pointing out daytalk right away, acting defeated about it (it really doesn't matter?), and now this reaction (not quite realizing why I voted you and trying to paint it as something else)
Shots fired - im already getting a small townread on dunnstral on page6. Awesome. Town dunnstral is a great thing. And it was an interesting test and conclusion as well.....This aelita is setting records for an early aelita-post count because everyone will be like "omg it posted more than 5 times in a single dayphase, it must be town".
In post 142, Aelita wrote:It matters to me, bud. I am weird. Get used to it.
Oh, confrontational as well eh. Thats a new trick.
In post 150, ThinkBig wrote:Disclaimer: I am deaf. Because I am deaf, my partner cannot post in bonds. However, I will take the passive role in that bond (and have to if I understand my role PM correctly)
So boring, there is absolutely no subtlety to these crumbs and its totally ruining my surprise.
In post 151, Aelita wrote:Who wants to bond with me? I love neighborhoods, I thrive on neighborhoods. Give me a neighborhood and I am a happy camper.
In post 142, Aelita wrote:It matters to me, bud. I am weird. Get used to it.
dunn aelita's reaction to your push is kinda obvtown
also dunn wtf r u talking about with trans
shiqf wrote:Hello travelers! I am shiqf, two slices of ham!
VOTE: Gorkington
serious vote?
either way
Gorkington wrote:
i dont like being wagoned ugh
oof
ow
firebringer why are you doing this to me you made me look so bad by saying all of those things
why are you so good at reading my early game
yeah uh
Gorkington wrote:NO
IM NOT FUCKING AROUND RIGHT NOW THIS IS HOW I PLAY THIS GAME
HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF NOT BEING TRUTHFUL
ive never played with gork so i dont actually know if this is his norm but either way
Is this how this Eddie fellow posts? I dont like it. Makes me want to lynch the slot. So far everything this slot has written makes me want to lynch the slot.
In post 202, Aelita wrote:I am crazzzyyyy traiiiiinnnnn, and I am looooviiiinggg it
In post 1666, Vecna wrote:Also, I have finished reading page 2, and Alisae is most definately scum.
VOTE: Alisae
I have not done ANYTHING AI in those 2 pages.
This is complete bullshit. Your wording here implies that your scumread is super fucking heavy considering it's been 2 pages.
Can we lynch this?
Hahahahaha, here fishy fishy fishy, i have a wurm for you.
In post 1722, Vecna wrote:Never mind, its 2 am, my vision is blurry and its time for a nap.
Remaining catch-up will have to wait for aproximately 16ish hours or so due to weekend shenanigans.
Id like to bond with someone, and im a delayed neighbourhood prolonger - with the awesome caveat of being the only person that can talk in my hoods since im deaf so im going nanananana cant hear you. Im just copying the fake-claim started by thinkbig to hide my pool of sizeable and powerfull abilities.
Except a ton of fake-guilties from me. Or not. Maybe theyre real. You'll know once I flip. But be expecting me to out guilties on my bonded partners a lot.
Scummy.
In post 1873, Vecna wrote:Startup part 2 commencing now. Titus voting me means Titus likely being scum.
Scummy, because he scumreads someone simply cos that someone voted them.
In post 1889, Vecna wrote:Catchup wall + notes part 2, starting at gamepage 10.
You see when companies are trying to raise capital they have two primary methods of doing so.
They either issue stocks or they get loans.
One loan or investment is a bond.
A bond is just something that general public can have access to.
Company borrows from you in order to finance their operations and they pay a fixed rate called the coupon rate or stated rate of the bond.
Now that's different than the actual market interest rate is, which if you want to go further changes whether the bond is being sold at premium or discount which affects the worth of bond, but that is kind of useless to you.
Bonds are good investment tools but the general public rarely owns bonds except for in things like mutual funds which will have a mixture of stocks and bonds that gets a modest rate of returns
Now there is also a seperate thing called being "bonded"
Which in financial world just means being insured. This is usually for someone entrusted with some money or asset so if the asset goes missing, the insurance company will cover damages and the bonded person while be investigated.
Any questions?
Scumread on Firebringer increasing, too much clever little posting still going on from the slot at this point.
In post 160, Gorkington wrote:hi everyone wow look there sure are a lot of pages already haha
looking forward to playing a game of mafia!
should be a lot of fun i think!
Gork is actually good at this game.
That he comes in with a newb sounding post like this is something he's well aware could get him scumread
And he did it anyway because he DGAF
He's town
So again Eddiebyte, explain that scumread
Frogger doing things that sound towny.
-----
More posts on page 11 from Aelita, Titus and Giga hydra that make me suspicious (cba quoting all)
2. If Bella and I successfully bond, I know you guys will hate this but, instead of spamming this thread I'll probably just hideout in our hood tomorrow
Can you explain to me the eddiebyte wagon to me? I kinda just woke up and don't get it.
AND NOOOOOOOOOOOOO FROG YOU GIVE ME SADS
page 13 or 14 and im still not liking any of Alisae's posts. In fact im hating them with a passion. It better change quickly.
Shiqf instantly shaken at a whiff of pressure. Might be scum as well.
In post 359, Randomnamechange wrote:ok gork is town
and titus and mcmenno are here
titus posting is town i think from them?
menno would be posting like this from either alignment
and that pick of the person from aelita's avi is fucking adorable
Strange entrance post from RM. Keeping an eye on the slot. I like RM. Also, I have no unholy idea why he thinks the posting from Titus was town-posting.
In post 414, jjh927 wrote:Woah, I'm gonna need more time with the actual posting here to put some reads together, but I'm suspicious of the Eddie wagon. Not because I disagree that Eddie's behaviour is a bit scummy, because it is, but because of how the wagon has formed.
I think Frog townread Bella for a combination of meta/familiarity and, more importantly, being on the Eddie bandwagon. I'm suspicious of Frog and Random from that wagon.
I hate this post. Its the worst post in the thread up untill this point. Attention on this JJ Abrahams guy is increasing.
In post 443, Titus wrote:Ok, I submitted the bond.
Time for prod dodges on my least favorite day.
I am taking requests for smiles and hugs.
Why so passive day1 again Titus? Do something spectacular already.
Your antagonizing game is rather weak. Up it up 4 notches please.
In post 461, jjh927 wrote:Wait, how am I the one shooting down anyone? Frog dismissed my argument as something it wasn't. He's being passive aggressive here. I don't think he's trying to make me seem like I'm scum, but he's definitely trying to discredit me as a bad town.
Ali, you're the only person in this game I can meta-read and the only time you've been scum, you were SK and the way our little exchange went forced some differences in play. But I'm going to townread you for your total lack of subtlety in general here.
I'm actually townreading Bella because Frog reasoning is pretty solid and nobody has challenged his ability to meta-read Bella. I don't trust my opinions on the hydras, because I've never played with hydras before and there being 2 people fucks with the way I tend to read.
There's been a lot of shitposting that I'd have to wade through 2-3 more times in order to really get a feel for everyone, and we're getting into an actual conversation here with plenty of IRL time to go, so I'm not sure it's worth doing that.
PEdit:
Vote: Eddiebyte
I like the vote......but the tone of this post comes off extremely weird. I dont know this person (i think?) but this post alone is grounds for being extremely suspicious of this slot. Ill be keeping an eye on you as well.
In post 480, Eddiebyte wrote:I don't particularly think our wagon is scum driven though. I wouldn't be shocked if it was all town, and would be extremely shocked if there was more than one scum. this kind of rvs wagon is usually mostly town and scum usually milks towncred off of it. at least, that's if you don't put stock in vca I mostly consider those votes on us townie tonally more than anything esle. I find scum often like to attach arbitrary reasoning etc to votes.
More scumposting^extreme. After reading this shit im raelly wondering hwo this day didnt end like within 2 pages of this shit going down.
In post 510, Alisae wrote:Like, the way Eddie analyzed his wagon was like "I'm throwing out words and reads to look like I'm doing something and look like I'm being productive."
I don't like it.
This.
In post 514, Alisae wrote:WAIT?
IS TRANSCEND READING ME CORRECTLY????????
Does this Titus posting style ever stop? I havent played a game with scumtus yet, but dont tell me this is the playstyle people are referring to as mastermind Titus? Right now its more like someone with an extremely large tongue drewling all over the place.
I dont vibe well with these reads really. Which is surprising, last game me and frogger were pretty much on the same page about a lot of things. Whats going on here. Only the Eddie, Menno and Heart reads are where id put them....which is a rather big difference overall. Maybe its because im not live-reading, maybe its because Frogger has a lot more experience with a bunch of these people.....but these....reads.....feel off to me.
In post 621, jjh927 wrote:I'm pretty happy, actually. It's my default state.
Alisae, I actually townread ThinkBig just because he's deaf. He can't fake someone else not being able to post, right? So I have no reason to doubt that this is fact. Next up, we have to consider why a scum role would have this modifier, and I just can't see it happening. It smells of balance changes to make a town role weaker. I don't really think it would make scum any weaker.
Ooooh look at the smart boy. Yes, that right. My role mechanically townclears me pretty much.
I will be at work for 3 more hours. I'll hopefully be posting some tonight. Due to my negative utilities, I was thinking about claiming ok full. However, I still have a few questions about my role.
Flavor Name: Beethoven
Role: I am a Modified Bond Passively Bonded Self-Enabling Disabled Night-Talk Enabler.
Essentially if I understand everything correctly, when I am passive in a bond, I can compose a piece of music and the following night I will enable night chat for the game.
Oh, my role was full-claimed already, how wonderfull. Guess im not gonna be alive very long in this game. Unless scum realize im most likely just an innocent child which enables night chat every once in a while with bad reads
Hehehehe, look at Alisae dreading the idea of having to waste a NK on thinkbig.
In post 653, jjh927 wrote:It's consistent, though. He's not completely certain that his role is the way he understands it. Twice.
I can confirm that this is due to how the role PM is written. It is quite tricky to understand, and took even me a while.
In post 670, Gorkington wrote:hopefully i'll get there.
im pretty bummed in general right now and i dont like how im playing
p-edit: hehe
Bummed is not acceptable. Would you like cat videos?
Im starting to suspect Titus has some role requirement that every post she makes needs to be hippy/uplifting/goody-goody in nature. Is your flavour like bob dylan or bob marley Titus? Or the teacher from beavis and butthead?
In post 676, Titus wrote:No. I'm supposed to post happy things, you do all the scum catching while I am on a beach, smiling.
O snap, called it.
Slightly scummy, cos he scumreads Firebringer for his playstyle, ie. something they always do
In post 1873, Vecna wrote:Startup part 2 commencing now. Titus voting me means Titus likely being scum.
So your stance is that anyone voting you is scum? :O
Well, I am the same, let's bond.
We can do that.
Well, I made it quite clear what my stance on him is here.
In post 1893, Vecna wrote:Ill need to be passive though Aelita, as described in TB's earlier claim (you can see it quoted in my wall if you missed it).
In post 1873, Vecna wrote:Startup part 2 commencing now. Titus voting me means Titus likely being scum.
I didn't vote for you, I voted for ThinkBig. Nothing you have done has made me change my mind, and especially not this thinly veiled threat.
Oh ok fair enough, I didnt read the last 10 pages or so, I thought you had voted me after I replaced in, which I wouldve found very scummy (which I think you can understand).
In post 707, jjh927 wrote:I like waiting for people to give an inkling that they have reads before I start reading people, because I believe tone is a really important tool for scumhunting and you can't really analyse tone without knowing what people think about other people.
You're not looking for any specific tone by itself. You're looking for one that is itself out of place. I don't think Alisae has much of a case here, and I've been able to match his trains of thought in the past.
Im starting to like this JJ more and more, the more I see him post. It could still be scum, but he's at least producing some sensible things. The fact he correctly analysed TB doesnt hurt ofcourse. I guess I actually agree strategically with TB's descision to claim the role, and was considering doing the same thing after my reread.
By the way we're not lynching at all until every bond is figured out
I think Titus is scum though
Mcmenno pls confirm you did the thing when you're here/we're doing the thing
Then why did you unvote titus. I haven't looked, but there's either 0 or 1 votes on her. Why unvote?
This is an attempt to look towny by unvoting then saying it's all about the BONDS baby
teeehehehehehehe
shit posting is turning awesome... i already have three srs and dunn weakest yippie skippy
Titus' your posting is really weird. Your reads are really weird as well. I cant follow how you could reach those SR's youre having here at all.
In post 877, Gorkington wrote:im probably going to vote dunnstral if thinkbig fizzles.
but.
i dont really think thinkbig is going to fizzle.
I really find it rather strange people are actually voting TB and talking about voting TB here so much. The claim he made is so obv-town this feels really really weird. What gives Gorkington. I feel you need to explain to me, now, why you were trying to push this wagon so hard. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Ditto to Titus, who likes to think about mechanics as well. She should also know this role is basically a town-confirm. Its like an innocent child in a slightly different casing.
Who do you think is scum RC?
I'll sheep your reads.
I get the idea you have more info
Fire continues to shitpost, and shitpost, and shitpost. Up until this point he hasnt made a single post with actually game related content. Not used to this posting style. Scumread intensifies.
In post 925, ThinkBig wrote:But seriously. L3 already. Wtf am I even doing wrong?
Scum caught for the wrong reasons.
Except I'm town.
Meh, I do have to admit my predecessors posting style was pretty pretty useless.
In post 967, Eddiebyte wrote:I lightly trd tb before 962, my better half thinks he's scum but I thinks scumn tb wouldn't have been phonwposting there as a whole. i think if anything hed be lurking on phone and posting in the scum pt if hed be posting at all. he did not answer why he claimed which I want to know. sniping out of our wallpost and posting this now to say I am now doubting that with this replace. unrelated I don't want tb to replace out on my last game for a while :v
In post 962, ThinkBig wrote:I town read Fro99er firstly because scum usually don't push people for town reading them.
I might replace out.
NO
FUCK NO
YOU TOWN READ ME AND THEN I PUSHED YOU FOR TOWN READING ME
WHY DID YOU TOWN READ ME IN THE FIRST PLACE
Hi frog, im TB's replacement, and I also think youre probably town. Gonna try and push me too? (Id advise against it.)
In post 991, Eddiebyte wrote:the wall's kind of getting more incoherent than normal so i might just cut some stuff off and get to it after i fully catch up btw if it's needed
probably gonna finish it in a sec and then however long it takes eddie to skim the entire thing before i post (i hate wall posting for that reason but here i think it's kind of necessary for obv reasons)
pedit: honestly i never know how to read thinkbig like i instinctively scumread everything he does and i've liked alisae's interactions with me here so im trusting his meta
eddie's tr i get though which is why i actually want to cold meta him myself when im less........
jjh927 wrote:TB has done nothing but shitpost since he revealed his role. I still think that would probably be a town role btw, but the way he's handled people voting him and asking him questions has been shit.
HOWEVER, I don't think we should lynch him today, scum or not. His role can only be beneficial to town. We just need to decide on a town member to pair with him to get that person a free active pairing in the bond and the ability to talk in night 2.
i dont really see why forced-passive is specifically town utility, scum can be passive normally.
actually rereading the claim i'm not even sure what it is like is he an encryptor or does he let us talk after the lynch...?
Seriously, these tripple announcements of a wall post are kind of scummy Giga.....Like you want to try even harder and harder to push out all the potential towncred, because you wrote a post that is slightly above average in length? This post better be worth it.
In post 998, Alisae wrote:Except TB claims a lot.
For no reason.
TBH
it might be the only thing I can really think of at the moment that makes him town.
Except I think it's also very possible that TB's firsts posts, he claimed neg utility, and checked in with his scumteam to see how he should proceed from there.
Ok, this wall is actually kind of pretty. I havent played with scum-giga, so im not sure if theyre capable of fabricating this train of thought, but it looks pretty towny - allthough ive never seen them post anything close to this elaborate as town before halfway into day1, so it could -maybe maybe- also be some scum posting, but most likely not.
like he's usually obvscum when he's scum and reads as like weirdly passive - like "ethereal" is the word i use to describe it in my head but i don't know if that makes sense
the rest of the table besides dunn i'm not super familiar with but like trans i can read with like 99.9% certainty
Alisae wrote:
In post 1004, Eddiebyte wrote:mcmenno's vote isnt even about me which i guess is fine but i have no clue how 284 is even a scumclaim so uh....... plus the rest of his posting is kind of just lazy posturing that doesn't really strike me as trying to fish for a reaction (which is the only town motive i could really come up with)
btw I tried clicking on the link and for some reason it didn't work?
it's the post where eddie claims a n0 guilty - probably got fucked up with all of the c&ping from the pt
(i forgot i have other games to catch up on so im not going yet)
In post 1004, Eddiebyte wrote:like gork's entrance was basically like that as were his reactions
Wait, so it was like gork here?
Or still talking about that other game? Was gork scum there?
ok hold on
I scumread dunn in bee movie mafia but i had a stronger scumread in creature in that game
i pushed dunn in rvs lazily in that game in a similar manner i pushed gork in this game (who i also scumread at the time)
does this help? :/
Kind of interesting though......giga commented on my part1 of the wall saying he agreed and felt the same about some of my quotes where i scumread Transcend.....but here he's saying its his biggest townread, and hes easy to read.....so what is it Giga?
I"m having an awful game so far and you all deserve better than me. Please give me access to dead thread. Thanks.
If this is a strategic replace I'm blacklisting you forever after the shit you pulled in Cabd's game
It wasnt, the poor guy probably felt bad because you guys were all bashing on him for CLAIMING HIS ROLE. Which, with the role he described to you guys - was a strategically strong move, and pretty much impossible to be an actual scum role in role madness (and RC's pr's in these games are usually pretty damn strong judging by the last Upick he did, no?). How should he have responded to everyone suddenly scumreading him because he claimed early?
Well, unless anyone wants to ask me anything before I do. 5 minutes or so.
PEdit: Are replacements due to this kind of crap common here?
I think tb is a good guy and wouldn't strategically replace out intentionally, I do know he hates playing scum passionately and I do know he evaded questions in the process of subbing out.
Not sure what use it is at this point, but ill gladly answer anything (if I can) if theres still open questions. I actually agree with the way he handled claiming the role. At any rate, anyone that has played with me as town before knows im a rather easy townread, and theres pretty much only 2 people on this site that misread me often while im town.
Scummy for trying to sell NAI stuff as AI and also because weird =/= scummy
In post 1083, jjh927 wrote:The fuck is happening with TB? Is this a meta self-deprecating ATE? I'm with you on calling it unethical, Frog. The question is, would scum!TB destroy every last shred of future credibility with a last ditch attempt to sway the town with... this? I think TB is just a horrendously frustrated town now. If he actually pulled this shit off as scum, what would be the meta-consequences?
This is scummy
Catchup wall continuing, guess its only here where it starts happening what you just mentioned Giga. Before this post everything Fire did was pure fluff & nonsense. I might not be fully aware of the meta since Gorkington also made that rediculous "this is town fire" post, but im not seeing it based on my own experiences (maybe theyre flawed due to hydra's being in the mix).
I guess ill keep an open mind, but I have low tolerance for contiuous contentless shitposting when I know the slot can do much better.
In post 1109, Alisae wrote:tbh I sorta agree with what jj is saying here. I don't see why scum defends tb here unless tb is fake claiming and has a really important role that the scumteam has to keep.
Surely you cannot be REALLY thinking this? TB has claimed 2 things that are both verifiable. They all fit to a certain flavour. This type of reasoning is rediculous alisae. There is no reason to fakeclaim something you cannot deliver on AS SCUM, in your very first post. They claimed it because this role can have some easy town utility, but it needs to be linked in a certain way, and theres a slight disadvantage in that the linked person cannot comunicate in the PT. Scum will have to deal with it by either using a NK on a role that is no direct danger to them, besides the vote from someone -that should be near town-confirmed upon claim-. This role is essentially a slightly better innocent child, except you have to confirm yourself instead of having the mod do it. Im going to eat a NK, or be town leader and give us night chat. Its that simple.
Ending my short wall again, because this is also important.
Trying to townfirm himself based on a role. Scum roles can have town utility, as shown in SU2 mafia, therefore, having town utility doesn't preclude someone from being scum.
In post 1922, Eddiebyte wrote:okay vecna. you said you agree with thinkbig claiming there, correct? why do you think claiming there made any sense?
Because the utility in this role is being pretty much town-confirmed in a role madness setup Giga. The nightchat is a nice gimmick, but its not really earth-shattering. The good part of the role is that it could -never- be a scum power in role madness. Anyone with a grain of common sense that can setup spec should see this instantly. Scum need potent abilities to circumnavigate the minefield of town abilities, not -this- role that I have.
Scum will either have to waste a nightkill on me, a nightkill they cannot then use to hit/hunt a powerfull PR, or theyll have to deal with me as near town-clear. And I intend to make the price of not NK'ing me high.
Besides, Ludwig von Beethoven as scum? Go listen to some moonlight sonata and calm your troubled mind.
Roles by themselves don't prove one as town.
In post 1972, Vecna wrote:Im not gonna forget to put a nice spoiler around my wall this time. BUT, please dont let that stop you from actually reading them. You buggers now I can obv-town so please allow me the possibility and read all that
And what, you're saying that I would defend town!TB for towncred? I assure you, I do not know TB's alignment but I take his breaking down to be sincere and personally believe that it would be worse on so many levels to break down like that as scum. I do not think he is a terrible person, as Frog seems to be implying. If you townread someone who is on the chopping block, you should always speak up.
No I am saying the way you went about defending or throwing questions in game was inherently scummy.
Nothing to do with TB alignment
ooh, it finally woke up. Thinking that JJ is White-knighting my slot. It might be the case. I do think at least one towny shouldve seen the inherent towny nature of the actual claim, since its just rediculous to think the claim could be a scum claimin that ability.
This may be true for the way he defended himself and replaced out.....but lets be honest here. The fact pretty much noone even thought things through with the actual claim is kind of sad as well.
In post 1129, Alisae wrote:So you weren't understanding what I was refering to when I was crumbing about chocolates and stuff.
Are chocolates in this context the same thing as cookies but slightly difference? Because if so, I have a real sweet tooth, and ill make you see the light yet - ive never failed in that regard yet, and you know it - so give me some time and an open mind.
In post 1143, Gorkington wrote:i just wanted to say
that as of right now
ive got a good feeling about this group of players.
like.
sometimes i play a game
and im like "oh my fuck if i die everything will fall apart".
but i think theres some good townies in this game.
and im kind of excited about it!
I think youre misreading at least 1 of them.
In post 1145, Gorkington wrote:like holy shit we've had two wagons in one day.
thats awesome sauce.
p-edit: I WASNT GOING TO SAY IT BUT I MEAN.
We had about 5 in civ mafia day1....didnt turn out so well
And this post again I kind of like. I really hope my little voice is wrong and Frogger is actually town. That'd be nice. Id like the option of a 2nd try.
Gorkington, why so high on the continuous shitposting. Care to do some more goodposting again? And none of that evil Ate that you used to fool me last time.
i mean... i GUESS you could possibly townread the replace-out outburst/s but that should've been shattered by the retraction
what is town about 4 half-assed townreads on the spammer friends?
Im getting some scum-pings from this slot as well. Just small ones for now. But now that I think about it.....this slot really hasnt done shit yet so far. Im gonna go ahead and place an early wager this one is carefully hiding scum.
In post 646, jjh927 wrote:PEdit: It would be town utility, wouldn't it? I guess I'm assuming things are predictable like that. Maybe I am wrong after all.
(quick aside about MS meta: any upick mod worth their salt will make scum roles that have conceivable town utility. it's also possible there's "scummy" dimensions to the role [like strongman or ninja or something] in addition to the "town" part. with a few exceptions [obvious confirmables like mason/IC; for the most part killing roles are town] role is null in upicks/role madness.)
Yuuuuuup, this slot is starting to ping me slightly harder for scum now. Im expecting a push from the slot to see if it can get TB lynched in the next few pages without actually being an obvious driving force behind it.
Im watching you potential buckets.
In post 1239, Heartless wrote:probably the best point for thinkbig being town now is transcend wking the wagon
oh. lol.
In post 1240, Transcend wrote:you guys have got to be kidding me if you think that his BEETHOVEN claim is fake and there's some scum counterclaim to that.
beethoven's not gonna be scumsided, the role he has doesn't sound scumsided at all
plus his iso is town as fuck what the fuck are you guys missing i don't even understand
thinkbig don't hardclaim in your third post for no reason next game lmfao
if i have to pull up meta i will but after botching my read on trans in pyp-with-cards i can pick up when trans doesnt give a shit about the game and becomes easy lynchbait :/
@trans what do you think of dunn here? im kind of sketched out by the fact he completely ignored the fact im pushing on him and you havent really weighed in on him when i'm trying to wagon him against your townread?
ftr i'm not going to vote tb until i can at least review the meta points and i wont have time until like after work so
pedit:
Transcend wrote:you guys have got to be kidding me if you think that his BEETHOVEN claim is fake and there's some scum counterclaim to that.
beethoven's not gonna be scumsided, the role he has doesn't sound scumsided at all
plus his iso is town as fuck what the fuck are you guys missing i don't even understand
thinkbig don't hardclaim in your third post for no reason next game lmfao
you know flavor's nai right :/
Quite some truth in these posts, and they make me feel slightly better about both slots. They both might be town yet.
In post 1240, Transcend wrote:you guys have got to be kidding me if you think that his BEETHOVEN claim is fake and there's some scum counterclaim to that.
beethoven's not gonna be scumsided, the role he has doesn't sound scumsided at all
plus his iso is town as fuck what the fuck are you guys missing i don't even understand
thinkbig don't hardclaim in your third post for no reason next game lmfao
did you not read heartless statement about upicks the scum roles having SOME town utility?
you aren't new buddy.
BIG EEEEEEW-post. yuk. Scumpoints through - the - roof.
In post 1241, Eddiebyte wrote:@trans what do you think of dunn here? im kind of sketched out by the fact he completely ignored the fact im pushing on him and you havent really weighed in on him when i'm trying to wagon him against your townread?
i can't read him anymore
he used to be so fucking obvious town within about 5 posts of his game
but now he's hard to read
Shame Transcend didnt post stuff like this straight away. Im actually likin this group of posts quite a lot, and I felt the exact same way. To me, Dunn's entrance felt like a carbon copy of PYP. He has gone inactive, and I dont know his scumgame, but I felt pretty good about a slight TR on dunn for his early posting. Not a read on very certain on yet, but its a good starting point.
In post 1247, Firebringer wrote:i really think this excuse on TB role claim being town is silly.
if you want to argue TB doesn't claim his first post as scum, thats worthy of something.
Saying his role is inherently townie is stupid
It is not, at all. The role is inherantly towny.
Unless you really think its one of those games where I have a role pm with like 6 lines of abilities, with a ton of hidden scum potential that all need to mesh with the beethoven theme. Id rather say thinking along those lines is "stupid" as you put it though. And the Upick role design really doesnt get based on giving someone an OBVIOUS town role pm, and then just randomly adding some extra scum abilities that make no sense whatsoever flavourwise.
Lets just say my role is that of a frail old man. Its the role that balances the other town pr's with a higher power level. Thats what beethoven was after all. A musical genious with a nice trick, but very few other noteworthy traits (afaik).
In post 1240, Transcend wrote:plus his iso is town as fuck what the fuck are you guys missing i don't even understand
a town case should be SUPER easy then
This slot just keeps taking the occasional putshots at people, without really showing any hunting or original thought of its own.
This slot is quickly entering my scum top3
In post 1277, Gorkington wrote:{also i have to be honest fire, im a little scared of heartless :s dont tell them i said that though}
aaaah, someone else is noticing what im noticing eh? Good. We finally get to be town together gorkington, and youre having a nice activity level here. Bravo, it pleases me.
In post 1280, Firebringer wrote:i am hard to read. why are people town reading me?
if anyone should be nervous of someone, it should be you guys of me.
my scum game is pro now.
See: Kids Mafia
And these type of ego posts come from scum x times out of x [fill in your own imagined statistic, but its scum more often than not]
Alisae is weakest scum read, because their case on TB felt a bit townie, but meh.
I am not letting that read go easily.
But then again.....I might be allergic to his posting style, but I can vibe with these reads pretty well. I think he's wrong about transcend at this point (but im not too sure yet), but I can all see these reads coming from a town analysis quite easily.
In post 1318, Bellaphant wrote:You've made 85 posts and had zero impact on the game? I can't see where your head is at at all.
- its on purpose though.....the question is....why?
Lets see, im upto page 54 now or so. Not gonna stop just yet since its actually kind of an interesting game so far. Gonna try and do a new little reads-list thingy here.
These reads are as im seeing the game based on page 1-54, keep that in mind please.
Firebringer is the weakest scumread there. JJ isnt terribly strong of a read either. At this point id love to lynch McMenno since he's not gonna do any AI shit the entire game anyway and he'll be a lategame mislynch as town, and a good informationless scumlynch if scum. Yes, I know youre going to attack me for this last line, but its still a smart idea.
In post 1922, Eddiebyte wrote:okay vecna. you said you agree with thinkbig claiming there, correct? why do you think claiming there made any sense?
Because the utility in this role is being pretty much town-confirmed in a role madness setup Giga. The nightchat is a nice gimmick, but its not really earth-shattering. The good part of the role is that it could -never- be a scum power in role madness. Anyone with a grain of common sense that can setup spec should see this instantly. Scum need potent abilities to circumnavigate the minefield of town abilities, not -this- role that I have.
Scum will either have to waste a nightkill on me, a nightkill they cannot then use to hit/hunt a powerfull PR, or theyll have to deal with me as near town-clear. And I intend to make the price of not NK'ing me high.
Besides, Ludwig von Beethoven as scum? Go listen to some moonlight sonata and calm your troubled mind.
Three things. A. Why can't it be a scum role?
B. setup spec doesn't work D1 unless massclaim because lol why?
C. The last bit is kinda a fallacy since alignments were RNG'd.
Vecna, I WILL work with you, can you just show me that you're doing town things if you're town.
In post 1995, Gorkington wrote:and please, do tell me, why is your role NEVER in the hands of scum?
explain it to me.
like im a fucking dumbo.
Ive allready gone into this twice guys.....But im slowly starting to get used to having to explain my thoughts several times so here we go once more for good measure.
Role design for scum in role madness'; normally focussed around giving them power to either mess with town investigatives, kill, or indeed appear as being a town pr. This has been said, and its largely true. HOWEVER, the way in which this last thing is usually done is not by giving scum a power that is completely useless to them......but by giving them something that is also usefull in either disrupting town, or narrowing down good targets for their NK. Giving scum rolecops/watchers/trackers and the like. Maybe some neighbourhood nonsense for good wifom. I dont recall it ever happening where they get a role with double negative utility for just scum that do benefit town, just so they can wifom. Im quite sure most of the mods here are going to agree with me that that would just be bad design.
The only way you'd give a role like mine to scum, in role madness, is to average out some other rediculously strong PR. This is still weak design though, since it makes for way too swingy setups if the strong powerfull pr is taken out.
All of this is just weak bla-bla-bla about mechanics though, but it does reinforce my point im trying to make.
Giving the scum a role that;
Doesnt allow town to talk to them in a pt they form (thus not even allowing them to wifom here, or gather information, which is bad bad design for scum in neighbourhoods)
Makes them charge up a night as the passive player
Gives town the ability to keep talking during night2.....
Does absolutely nothing for scum. Its double negative utility. It makes no sense to put a role like this on the scum team. At all. In a role madness game.
And yes, I feel fine to setup spec about this type of stuff on day1 since they Upick games get ran all the time - and they always are filled with a bunch of rediculously strong PR's. But ill dare you to find me an example where the mod balances it by giving scum a role with double negative utility, where the only upside is some weird wifom play.
Ill concede the point about flavours not being AI, because apparently theyre not. That still doesnt mean that it would make any sense for there to be any positive scum abilities besides the ones ive claimed that make sense within the flavour context.
At any rate, im done with this discussion. Its not interesting, and if you dont agree with me on these statements its just not interesting to go on bickering about it. My play is super-simple to read, and my abilities and play will soon confirm me as town easily. There might be some stubborn slowpokes that keep doubting me, and thats fine - I can live with that.
But I think we both know you wont be one of them gorkington.
Role =/=alignment. And because of the way SU2 went, people who try to imply otherwise automatically go into my scumpile, no questions asked.
In post 1928, Vecna wrote:Because the utility in this role is being pretty much town-confirmed in a role madness setup Giga. The nightchat is a nice gimmick, but its not really earth-shattering. The good part of the role is that it could -never- be a scum power in role madness. Anyone with a grain of common sense that can setup spec should see this instantly. Scum need potent abilities to circumnavigate the minefield of town abilities, not -this- role that I have.
As the designer of
many
role madness games, all I have to say to this is: no.
Ok, point me to one of your games where you designed a scum-role such as mine.
Where 3 of the abilities/passives are dedicated to fit one theme, and their only purpose is to wifom town at the downside of having 2 negative utilities to your own team.
Lets see it then.
In SU2, there was a role which couldn't make a kill. It was a scum role.
Ever since vecna replaced TB he's been walling good stuff - I feel he's different to double deck too (that sounds generic but he really kind of does feel that way)
roleplay
er
can you be specific about that like
??? his reads are all over the place it feels like he's trying to disrupt forming townblocs (like fro99er/alisae as scum? i really dont buy it)
i wanna say his catchup walls were similar there too so but i dont actually remember
Wtf is this nonsense man? Breaking up a 2-person town-block? You really think me having some day1 hold-backs on the frogger slot is "breaking up townblocks"? This is just a fake-ass reasoning to try to get a likely lynch pushed through on a slot that is suspicious of you.
My reads arent all over the place, ive placed a nice coloured thing at the end of my catchup. Sure, its changing - thats what town do.
VECNA YOURE SCUMMY BUT YOUR PRED WAS KINDA TOWNY BUT I MIGHT CHANGE MY MIND
If I was actually scum, you'd be thinking I was town. You know this to be true. For you, id try-hard my scumgame again and improve on it. But lately I cant really seem to be caring enough when I roll scum.
In post 2508, Aelita wrote:But okay, go on, and when Vecna flips scum, because naturally, I am the one blameable. But hey, it's not as if I tried to warn you all not to repeat my mistake. And fyi, those things aren't just directed at you, but at those who are willing to townclear Vecna solely because 'their role can't be a scumrole'
For someone that keeps harping on about my role....why am I scum?
In post 2550, Transcend wrote:You're basically auto town if Vecna flips scum. But if only one of you is town, it's likely he over ye.
Why is it only 1 though?
I do agree with Aelita somewhat that just because she attacks me she is the insta-lynch candidate.
She's wrong regarding my allignment, and I do hope theres some ways to break that tunnel, but wéll see about that.
Hi Aelita, we played before - you know im great at solving games when I have a good day and that im good at obv-towning and that the longer a game continues, the more unlynchable I become.
Is this why you secretly want me lynched? At any rate, im still not understanding your reasons for scumreading me, and id like you to explain them in a crystal clear manner to me.
Yes, because being unlynchable doesn't preclude you from being scum. In SU2 scum coasted by till the end by appearing reasonable and active, and they were still scum. Conclusion: if I scumread you, I am not gonna let your activity or 'reasonable' posts sway me, cos it'll only lead to repeat of SU2 and I don't want to mess up and be declared a moron again.
In post 2445, Transcend wrote:every time i go to vote aelita i have to stop myself because they're ust too amusing
obviously slot doesn't live to lylo tho
And why not? Because I question clearing someone based on a role due to being burned for doing the very same thing in one of the previous games? Because I learned from that mistake, unlike randomidget here? Yeah, such a reasonable thought process. I swear that everyone should follow this beacon of logic.
IM
NOT
FUCKING
TOWNREADING
THE
CLAIM
QFT
Well that's all I see. I am with Aelita here 100%. Vecna hasn't even attempted to sort anyone, so I don't know what flowers he gave.
Hi Titus, answer this one honestly.
HAVE YOU EVEN READ MY CATCHUP WALLS?
'I am being active and solving the game, so I must be town' appeal. Guess who employed the same tactic once? Scum.
In post 2601, Vecna wrote:Anyways im getting some dinner now, after that I want some live chats with titus to talk for a bit in this game.
Are you availlable in an hour Titus?
Im getting the very honest impression youre not trying to sort my slot at all here. Which is troubling me quite a lot.
You wanted your little gambit earlier, all fine. But now were going to have some honest talks about that, and why you keep insisting im not scumhunting. Its nice that you wanna pull me into some emersive thing by using language you used in another game where you caught me as scum, but its not what is happening here.
Youre not actually even reading my posts.
If you had, you'd have spotted that little trap-question that I posted there in VERY BIG LETTERS. Im sure a lot of people have seen it.
Were gonna talk. And were gonna sort this shit out.
'Oh look at me, I am gamesolving, now townread me'.
In post 2607, Aelita wrote:The reason I want you lynched is simple: my brain is telling me you are scum, because when I see your posts, I cannot help but think of someone who tricked me into believing they're town but were scum, and I refuse to let that happen again. Therefore, I promised myself that I will always scumread someone if there's even a miniscule amount of evidence against them to avoid being tricked again like that.
Basically, it's better to be paranoid and wrong than to be too trusting and feel like an idiot afterwards.
Well at least thats honest. Guess ill just completely ignore you as well then since that doesnt seem to be anything I can actually influence or interact with.
Its not all how mafia is played though.
Why are you afraid of me tricking you?
Why arent you afraid of Titus doing it?
Or Firebringer?
Hell, why arent you more afraid of McMenno tricking you into thinking he's town?
Why would me tricking you feel like more of an idiot than any of the other players in this game?
Because you are the one going about how your role/activity/scumhunting makes you town when scum can 'scumhunt' and post big walls easily
In post 2626, Eddiebyte wrote:I asked how good his scum game is. nobody answered me.
vecna? he hard pocketed me last time so i'll be honest i have no clue how to read him
never have seen him as town
I think RandoMidget and Alisae are normally very good at detecting my town-game (allthough for Alisae it sometimes takes a while).
Not completely sure both are town here yet - Random is having a slightly different tone to what im used to, Ali seems to be approaching lock-town rather rapidly - but I think you should be able to trust their judgement.
If Titus gives me an honest chance to do my thing, you can trust her judgement as well. I need her to answer why she's not reading my catchup posts though.
'Once Titus townreads me, you can trust her judgment cos she is only decent at this game while she townreads me'
In post 2426, Vecna wrote:Wtf is this nonsense man? Breaking up a 2-person town-block? You really think me having some day1 hold-backs on the frogger slot is "breaking up townblocks"? This is just a fake-ass reasoning to try to get a likely lynch pushed through on a slot that is suspicious of you.
My reads arent all over the place, ive placed a nice coloured thing at the end of my catchup. Sure, its changing - thats what town do.
I meant in general and just gave an example.
Your attack on fire sucks because I'm pretty sure this is his towngame and you're attacking him for something as vapid as shitposting. Give me something more solid on him.
Your scumread on Alisae/Fro99er is equally vague and I'm struggling to really see how you came to that conclusion even from what I remember of your catchup posts.
You still haven't told me why Aelita sounds coached, either.
And your townread on us looks like the kind of read you'd have on someone you might push later.
Like it seems you're just attacking well-townread people when I'm reading the gamestate as having mostly town cohesion.
Giga, I think youre putting too much emphasis on stuff that was a momentary comment, and an opinion that has likely changed since. Im still going to try and answer these for transparencies sake to make you feel better about my slot since im all about that and all.
Why does my attack on fire suck? He was shitposting a ton without actual content. Shitposting is NAI, and just because you think he's town doesnt make it true. Well maybe it does, but im the kind of egotistical guy that likes to draw his own conclusions, and the way Fire was posting -I- could not read him. Since my attack he has started shitposting a lot less, so I call it a win. I think youre probably right, and that he's maybe town - but im still gonna be keeping an eye on him.
I think Frogger is being a bit too artificial still. I havent seen anything that I know he's capable off yet. Alisae is telling me im wrong, maybe I am - but I know frog is capable of delivering play that I can easily townread. He hasnt done so yet. If he wants my townread, he's going to have to earn it. Im not going to state here what im looking for, I cba potentially coaching scum.
As for the read on you - it looks like that because its true. I dont have a strong read on you yet, so Im gonna work on forming that and if I think youre scum youre goddamn right I will come back to push you. My reads are still heavily fluctuating as you noticed yourself, and I read people by attacking them and pressuring them. Thats my style as town, so prepare for more of it.
And just because im attacking well town-read people doesnt mean im breaking up any townblock. There is no such thing yet from what I can see. The only thing of note that has happened this game is a poor push on TB, and a push on Dunn. Im not sure Im very happy about this Dunn push yet, and I think he's someone ill be able to read quite well later on. I dont think ill be voting there today unless its to save my own hide (but im counting on this not being nessacery).
'I am attacking widely townread people, yet I am still town and you'd better agree to this'
In post 2607, Aelita wrote:The reason I want you lynched is simple: my brain is telling me you are scum, because when I see your posts, I cannot help but think of someone who tricked me into believing they're town but were scum, and I refuse to let that happen again. Therefore, I promised myself that I will always scumread someone if there's even a miniscule amount of evidence against them to avoid being tricked again like that.
Basically, it's better to be paranoid and wrong than to be too trusting and feel like an idiot afterwards.
Well at least thats honest. Guess ill just completely ignore you as well then since that doesnt seem to be anything I can actually influence or interact with.
Its not all how mafia is played though.
Why are you afraid of me tricking you?
Why arent you afraid of Titus doing it?
Or Firebringer?
Hell, why arent you more afraid of McMenno tricking you into thinking he's town?
Why would me tricking you feel like more of an idiot than any of the other players in this game?
vecna not to be a bitch but i think the answer here is kind of transparent if you were actually trying to read into aelita
i'll let her speak for herself but still come on
It is transparent? Do TB and Aelita have some thing? Or what am I missing here?
I really dont understand why me of all people, she is afraid of getting tricked by. We hardly have any history at all.
You can use her reasoning to scumread and vote anyone, but youre ok with it?
Do please explain it to me if she doesnt, because im at a loss.
'Even though you explained her reasoning, I am gonna pretend that you didn't because I am town even though there's reason for her to believe otherwise'
In post 2679, Vecna wrote:Name your 4-5, and we play a little game to check afterwards who is closer, ok?
why do you want to play a game to check who is closer afterwards
rather than trying to condense reads to find scum?
sorry.
i dont buy it.
not for a fucking second.
you arent this cutesy as town.
you would be trying to solve the game with me here.
not placating me with platitudes like this.
Have you seen the pages upon pages of attacks against me Gorkington? Did you notice that there were about 30 questions aimed at me in the last 8 pages? Are you really pretending I can ignore all that?
Are you really pretending im not trying to gamesolve? Have you missed my posts attacking certain people? Do you think im doing that just because I have a personal grudge?
It really sounds to me youre just trying to hop onto the bandwagon because its the easy thing to do here.
Ill give you one insight; The scumteam containts a lot of the big names, they view themselves as high end players and bigshots. The fact theyre taking me on on day1 means they know they can likely get away with it and talk their way through it after my flip.
These same players know my value and that im hard to lynch, and thats why theres this big push on me right now.
If you want to gamesolve with me, fine - then give me time to get out from under this pressure - dont pile more on it. Because thats dishonest horse-shit.
Scum can be hard to lynch, but that alone doesn't make them not scum.
In post 3282, Aelita wrote:You wanted to talk to me, so what happened with that?
I was catching up on 20 pages, sorry.
We can talk later instead, I dont think ill be changing your mind regardless. It appears im no longer a lynch candidate atm, so ill just let my actions do the talking instead.
Give me that benefit of the doubt at least. And I think people should realize theres a limit to anyones capabilities as scum. Very few people are gonna be able to type smooth like I have been in all my talking in this game and make it appear honest (apparently giga disagreed, but w/e).
Just saying you want to lynch me, after all the effort I put in - with the main reason being not wanna be fooled and not liking the claim and hoping to be towncleared by it - is not really a nice thing to do fmpmov.
This is scummy too, because you, as scum, would naturally insist on this being false even if it's not. I'll let you dispute my arguments and say to me with a straight face, that scum would admit to being scum and wouldn't try to use every argument they have in order to avoid being lynched.
In post 3306, Aelita wrote:But okay. Present me as a Satan. We'll see who is laughing when you flip scum.
Getting me lynched is not gonna be that easy. And even if you do manage, youre gonna see a
town beethoven
flip. Wooptie-doo.
And that's why I scumread you. You re trying to coast by on being town-cleared by flavor. Just like Reasonably Rational (who, by the way, was also a smooth typer there) and Skybird in SU2 mafia. I am not gonna be fooled by that twice.
Are you really gonna stand there and say im "coasting by" on my claim? I dont give a fuck about the claim, and neither does anyone else. I feel it should make me even more lock-town, true, but ive put in about 10 pages worth of content that should far out-do any effect of that claim.
Stop talking about that claim and evaluate my damn play instead.
You also tried to imply that effort makes you town, when scum can make effort as well.
In post 3334, Vecna wrote:Im gonna be so annoyed if I open up that scum-chat after the game and someone gave Aelita instructions to be this game's mathblade on purpose.
In post 3333, Aelita wrote:Don't play dumb. You said 'designate me as a town leader, lynch 3 random people on 3 subsequent days and let me appoint a successor in case scum nightkills me'.
you realize this was just shitposting right?
Like, are you really thinking that was a serious game strategy suggestion?
In post 5781, Vecna wrote:Also i havent seen a single game where you do not defend your townreafs titus. Youve been defending heart, giga, dunn and a bunch of other people.
You actively tried to stop dunn's lynch. You actively shaded me for my scumreads on the active posters.
Your defensing and shading is selective.
'You are defending your townreads, therefore you're scummy'
In post 6123, Titus wrote:He expected you to flail if I pushed on your Bella read.
I want heartless to tell me why he expected me to flail.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
I mostly consider those votes on us townie tonally more than anything esle. I find scum often like to attach arbitrary reasoning etc to votes.
is also important.
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}
we crushed our last hood