Mini Normal 1964 - Hell Is 56k Dialup - Endgame!

[Keychain]

tentative scumread on UC Voyager
If it weren't for cys first post I'd be voting there tho tbh

Aw that's all right, I'll do it for you.

VOTE: cytheflyguy

Overly focused on reading someone by meta instead of sorting the players actually present.


@UCV 15: love it

[Keychain]

Katyusha: what I mean is it's like stalling. Going for the player who hasn't yet confirmed and requesting meta - especially considering that the amount that somebody rolls scum is not alignment indicative at all unless I misunderstand completely - then sitting back and waiting for this one player instead of looking into any of the others available.
I don't like it. It feels like busywork.

@Keychain I mean.. um.. you could have started by voting with me

schadd? Why? I like cy.

You

should be voting with

me

.

keychain u r scum, hello!

Hello! Nah mate should I be voting you?

[Keychain]

Nope. What about you?

tentative scumread on UC Voyager
If it weren't for cys first post I'd be voting there tho tbh

Aw that's all right, I'll do it for you.

VOTE: cytheflyguy

Overly focused on reading someone by meta instead of sorting the players actually present.


@UCV 15: love it

Well I mean, what would you like me to do on the first page? If you look at the first thing I said, I go off the logic of someone else, not just straight up asking for meta with no context. I was trying to work with someone else to get the game rolling.

UCV 4: "Transcend is scum 60% of the time"
You 13: "This is useful information let us dig deeper"
Despite the fact that Transcend presumably also received his role via randomisation, making this kind of useless as an endeavour. Doing kind of useless things is okay at this point in the game, I agree. But there was no way this was leading anywhere. Then waiting for content from Transcend instead of using what you already had available from other players. It doesn't feel like you were actually trying to "get the game rolling".

It's not like you were in an empty room with UCV. Nearly half the game had posted before you, and you had said not a thing about any of them.

i mean im not defending it as good play - i just think silly busy work at this stage of the game isnt AI for someone out of practice and like cy from what i can gather from his posts. maybe a different player you could argue but it doesnt seem out of place to me

Good point here though.

VOTE: Keychain

Found one

Hello, can I help you?


@Jodaxq: why no vote?

[Keychain]

Hi Havo!

Is there anything else that particularly strikes you to comment on atm


I would
Like to know

Yup. I don't understand Katyusha's scumread on Firaja because she's given no reason for it apart from disagreeing with him, and it looks like she mixed up Jodaxq and Firaja in 68 or else I just didn't understand that last comment at all. Also schadd's posts are works of art but I don't know what I think about them alignment wise yet.

Were you asking after something in particular?

[Keychain]

Hi Havo!

Hi Key!

Ok if I call u that?

Knee jerk reaction - Who’s scum?

A-OK to call me that
That's the question, isn't it? Not sure. Not a fan of the way wavemode and EE came in and dropped votes with confidence and not much else, Firaja

is

pretty stilted, and I'm still pretty happy voting cy.
And I don't know why you thought that post of mine was on point.

@Keychain

68 is actually talking to you lmao sorry

if my firaja vote was just for disagreeing with him i'd also be scumreading you here - theres more to it but i want people to do more before i push a full case

although saying it's just because i'm disagreeing feels a bit reductive. it was in the way he explained his reasoning that felt off (i.e. that he wasnt really parsing the game like i would expect town to)

Yeah I know you were talking to me, I meant this bit:

plus firaga casting suspicion there is

Firaja hadn't posted anything recently that you could have been referring to but I'm assuming you meant that Firaja's read there meant that you view cy more favourably.

Yeah it was a bit reductive, I know. I wanted more details from you though beyond the ones you'd explicitly stated, especially if you're trying to get players to join you. I'm happy with this response for now.


PEdit:
@cy: huh okay. Give me a bit and I'll get to that, but in the meantime I'm interested - do you think I'm scum?

[Keychain]

I'm still liking it

Okay so:

A) You misquoted me. I said "If we're going by this logic, I think this would be a good place to start." Keywords: "If we're going by this logic". I thought other people would be going by this logic and decided to take a stab at it.

Yeah, my apologies, I should have put a disclaimer that it was my takeaway from the post, not a direct quote.
Can you explain what that logic was? Because from my POV it looks like you were assuming Transcend had a higher-than-random chance of rolling scum. I find that difficult to believe you accepted this premise, even more so that you would expect other people to do so, so please help me understand.

B) So because half of the people appeared before Transcend, I should have grasped at straws with them first? I went with a small thing that I could just look at -- not even actually scumreading him. And I addressed some of the faulty logic, it's not like I followed it blindly.

See above regarding why I find it difficult to understand how you followed

any

of the logic.
But no. I mean... you started a game. Players were posting things. Players with alignments. Instead of looking at their posts to work out if they were scum or not, you instead decided to inquire into the meta of a player who hadn't even posted, so you had zero way to develop a read from that at that point. I would have expected it to give you some sort of opinion on UCV, but I see no evidence of that so far.

C) What type of information? Like his previous games? How do I access that -- legit question. That'd be useful information down the road.

Yeah that was a legit question. When I'm doing background research I check wikis first (next to the PM button at the bottom left of each post) then the topic search Katyusha linked (go to profile of the player, bottom right of that). But you said you trying to get the game rolling, not that you were setting up for well down the track. Those are different things to me.


On another note: why are you voting Firaja?

[Keychain]

Reading's good for you but I'll try be concise.

@107

UNVOTE:

Not sure how I feel about the flip to being super agreeable or the townread on me, but I particularly liked point A and the explanation of the Firaja vote.

@108
I definitely roll scum more than my fair share, but it still doesn't have any bearing on my alignment in any one game.

Is there anything else that particularly strikes you to comment on atm

I would
Like to know

Yup. I don't understand Katyusha's scumread on Firaja because she's given no reason for it apart from disagreeing with him, and it looks like she mixed up Jodaxq and Firaja in 68 or else I just didn't understand that last comment at all. Also schadd's posts are works of art but I don't know what I think about them alignment wise yet.

Were you asking after something in particular?

Ya it feels like to me first impression; you spent your time expanding on a cy scumread that wasnt that great to begin with :////

Im aware Im townreading him for a reason you might not be looking at but
Well, it's actually a reason that you've acknowledged in 83
Post 68 from Katyusha is a good point but apparently it's not enough to impact your read on cy in any noticable way?
It's sort of pinging me.

I had my reply to this on hold until cy responded, and now he has.

It

was

a good point and it did lessen my scumread on him, but you didn't see it. I do know I was pushing harder than the strength of my scumread actually warranted, because I'm just not that great at getting reads without interrogating people a bit and it has other advantages worth coming across a bit overeager.

Vote Count One, Or "I Can't Believe No-one Commented On" Flogging Of One Of Your Member""

It's the high speed internet at stake here! I see we've upgraded to slaughtering now.

[Keychain]

Scum of course would be trying to look like they are scumhunting, however I believe (at least for the moment) Katyusha and cy are genuinely scumhunting, as they were using what they had at that time to show their reads.
The UCV "meta" discussion didn't really advance because of him, and while it did advance, he basically undid everything that was discussed to do with it by discarding it as a joke, which in affect discarded what was achieved due to it, which is why I find what he did scummy and distracting looking back.

...What did you think UCV was going to do when someone took his joke seriously?

I can't read 100 and 110 and not scumread u

yeah mate you make it sound like I'm twisting your arm to get you to scumread me. I'm interested in what pinged you about those though?

What do you mean by super agreeable?

Your other responses to me like 61 and 96 came across a lot sharper than 107.

And it's not the quality of the townread - it's very easy to townread actual town with actual reasons when you're scum, so that doesn't really give me any reassurance of your alignment. But I find I get townread that solidly by scum more often than town, so it worries me a bit.


I'd really like to hear from Jo on her cy read.

[Keychain]

Could also do cy

Why? I liked his response for the most part.

i have problems with your cy progression basically
but im conflicted about a thing rn

Is this a thing you're planning to share with the class?


@UCV: who is scum?

PEdit: damn it I was asking that Zach

[Keychain]

No Key Chain it actually is not thanks

You don't have to be aggro Keychain will remember this though.
Can you explain your schadd scumread?

keychain has a lot of padding

?

Check my previous games. I used to be super excitable and wasn't mature enough to play. That's why I took such a long break. I wanted to play more seriously, but sometimes niceness comes out every now and again

With that, I can't control your previous interactions, but I have more reason to townread you and not scumread you.

You're digging yourself a hole here but I want to see what you do outside of interacting with me. Didn't like that response to Transcend - I don't understand how finding your post artificial and scumreading you off that is illogical.

You can play serious and be nice simultaneously!

uc voyager are u excited to Hunt Some sCum!

uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh

VOTE: UC Voyager

Please post a read

[Keychain]

@Havo: Someone feeling out of step with the game is not necessarily scum, I agree, but it's also not necessarily town. Can feel it as either alignment though I think it's more likely to come from scum. Your vote on and leap off comes across bad if that's the basis. Apart from Jo, can you summarise your townreads for me?


@Jo: do your thing! Poke at things you don't understand, or focus on the things you

can

parse. The way you went from cy to UCV shortly after I did unnerves me - was my read influencing you?

Do you scumread Transcend?

pedit u dont like any of his posts but hes town?

It was apparently a bad joke.

uhh which bit was the joke?

tbh I feel like I'm missing something in this game. There's a lot of strange interactions.

iReAlLyDoNoTlIKeThIsPoStInThEsLiGhTeSTbItGuYsIsItJuStMe

No I agree, also are you biased against phone posters because I had to turn my phone sideways to read this

also keychain cant be read with vibes most likely

Huh okay I don't know why you'd think this. Normally it's logic that leads people to townread me when I'm scum. In that case - how should I read you? At the moment I'm leaning scum.
Also your schadd read gives me nothing.

[Keychain]

also keychain cant be read with vibes most likely

Huh okay I don't know why you'd think this. Normally it's logic that leads people to townread me when I'm scum. In that case - how should I read you? At the moment I'm leaning scum.

that's an awful convenient read keychain
I was saying you employ logic when you're scum so reading you with -vibez- is bad

Okay I tried but I have no idea what vibes are so I'm probably going to abandon that for now unless someone wants to explain. Really not my forte.

The second part of my comment was not an idle question. I left the door open for you to tell me why I shouldn't be scumreading you. You responded by trying to scare me off with how my scumread of you

looks

, but gave me no reason why it's

wrong

.

well Jodax. why me?

because i havn't posted much or scum hunted?!?!?

crappy. i do that as town sometimes. You can't meta me because the only type of gameplay you have seen from me is my town PR play

So when you're a town PR (who was outed and therefore roleblocked every night) you come right out and scum hunt openly, but when you're a vanilla civ you don't?

did i say i was VT?
no. what i said was you have seen my "town pr game style" and it is way to early to be meta reading!
so trying to use "he publicly scum reads and what not as town" isn't valid

When did I ever say that? Before my last post I never talked about your meta. All I'm saying is through all the fluff from the first 11 pages of this game, you and Everyone Else (the single user) have managed to remain active while not participating at all.

i havn't posted in a while!

Methinks someone doth protest too much and that effort could be better put to use scumhunting. But also I don't think I want you lynched D1.

When did I go from Cy to UCV? I made a comment that I agreed that the early interaction between Cy and UCV looked more bad towards Cy. Since that point Cy has responded adequately and I buy his excuse about being out-of-practice. UCV has just posted a bunch of filler posts and I know he's been playing a lot of mafia recently.
The joke seemed obvious to me but I guess not. It was just an immature "oh you don't like me? Well I don't like you!"

Reading your ISO - posts 66, 67, 104 are all cy-negative, the first two were either furthering my push or agreeing with it via direct quotes and the last one repeated a point I had made in 100. I notice when people agree with me.
Plus 213, where you voted UCV. After I did in 209, after dropping cy. Maybe I'm seeing things because ego.

VOTE: Jodaxq

Why do you think that being out of practice is a reasonable explanation for cy's actions? Like can you go into more detail?
Also good catch in 280.

This game

yes it's fun, you should play it

[Keychain]

You are a total puzzle to me.

[Keychain]

keech

... are you talking to me

If so, more explainy posts like 190, that's all I need. I struggle to follow without that.

also do I do too many words, is that what you mean by padding because I'm still ??? on that one

In 259 you encouraged me to do my thing. That's what I've been trying to do. The only relevant thing that I felt that happened in the opening pages was the Cy/UCV exchange and I commented on it. You just happened to beat me to it both times. My read wasn't as strong as Cy though so I never voted for him.
And I think out of practice is a valid excuse because I feel like it's easy to jump out like that when you're not in the flow of things. If you come into a game thinking "I remember that I need to be proactive because I'm town" then I could easily see mis-jumping on an RVS vote.

Indeed, do your thing!

However I would think that someone coming into a game thinking that is... far more likely to be scum? Surely town comes into a game focusing less on how they need to act and more what they need to do, if I'm making that clear.

You said earlier you're unsure on Havo and Zach. What would make you more sure one way or the other? Can you share thoughts on each of them?

[Keychain]

[Keychain]

I failed telepathy in uni tho

and I don't know how to read you without knowing why you do things

[Keychain]

KEECH

oh my god WHAT

I failed telepathy in uni tho

wait lmao what

how do you play mafia then

I make people tell me what they're thinking and I try figure out the ones who are lying

keech the leech

wow

[Keychain]

I kind of agree so far with those three Transcend

I was town with UCV in a newbie for a bit, he replaced into a pretty towny slot but we mislynched him same day

He did pick out the final scum though

[Keychain]

The second part of my comment was not an idle question. I left the door open for you to tell me why I shouldn't be scumreading you. You responded by trying to scare me off with how my scumread of you

looks

, but gave me no reason why it's

wrong

.

I said why I scumread schadd, I don't know why you scumread me so I assumed it's cause I'm lynching you? I feel the evil, Keychain. I feel it in the pit of my soul.

Yeah that's not me, that's either your scum role PM or that cute new avi

I asked how I should read you, since you think I can't be read with "vibes". Just answer, hey? How should I know you're town here? My read on you is irrelevant to answering that question.

So when you're a town PR (who was outed and therefore roleblocked every night) you come right out and scum hunt openly, but when you're a vanilla civ you don't?

Does this look a little like rolefishing to anyone else...? Or am I overthinking it?

VOTE: Firaja

i c what's going on heree now

Is Transcend a scumfuck? Find out on the next episode of Blues Clues

I don't see. I thought it was fair?
Also if you've got something on Transcend, preferably better than what you have on schadd, I'm listening

[Keychain]

In that case -

how should I read you?

At the moment I'm leaning scum.

This is the question I'm talking about

[Keychain]

Yes I would like that if you've got one.

I'm not trying to correlate them, the one thing made me think of the other, and if you have an idea on how to read me I thought you'd have an idea on how I should read you. Would you prefer if I made a case on why I think you're scum?

Firaja and Joda are actually very obviously town. As the resident Unkillable Townie I declare these wagons unacceptable

As resident doggo, Keech is unacceptable.

but doggo why

[Keychain]

Translateion : case me please

and Id like one order of "Why r u acting like I don't have a Firaja scumread"

You can't ask me to case you and then beg for help!

The first time I said I thought you might be scum was in 259. Reasons for that weren't that strong. Your read on me was fine but saying you have an idea of how to read me felt more like discrediting Transcend's townread than anything else. Your schadd read was always empty. 174 was defensive and 181 was a weird retreat.

I was more interested in how you'd react to my read, and you were focused on it being "convenient", which is like... no, it's not, as scum I really wouldn't want to get into a 1v1 with you. Like I said it didn't seem like you cared that it was wrong, which it would be if you were town. I guess that's believable if you were sure I'm scum, but not liking my cy progression is pretty sparse for being that sure.

Also if your reason for scumreading me is my cy progression, I'd have expected you to comment during the course of this conversation on that zigzag I just did, but nothing.

I know you have a scumread on Firaja, I saw it and asked about it about part of it thirty seconds ago in 368 but you didn't answer. Your read on him is a point in favour of you being town. 346 is probably the strongest part of that read. Are you voting there because it's where you think you'll get the strongest support or because it's your strongest scumread?

You had Jo listed as a possible lynch in 334 but then seem to defend her shortly after in 350 and 351.

You've been maintaining suspicion of Transcend, which I would be super keen to hear about, but nothing further than that. And you had EE as a potential lynch, is that for lurking? Where did your schadd scumread go?

You could just be town that I can't understand, which is why I'm talking to you, but I don't get that impression so far, so I'm happy with you as one of my top scumreads until I have reason to believe otherwise.

[Keychain]

Dayvig would have been more convincing if this:

ite you failed the test

shoot keech

hadn't already happened and been ignored by the mod. Also it was a scumday but thank you!

I read all of wavemode posts in Mickey Mouse voice it has brought great enjoyment to my life

oh HELL what have you done

Also regarding your rebuttal:

I don't take you guys seriously because you're lynching on obvtown so no I'm not really considering your "progressions" if I think they could all be faked

your estimation of my scumplay is too high

joda may have been spooky at times but her reaction to pressure isn't really scum at all and not realizing it going forward means you're probably doing it on purpose

your estimation of my townplay is too high

Anything more than that is not going to be constructive. I don't think we're getting anywhere with this, do you? Neither of us is even voting the other. I'll reconsider your points later under the assumption that I'm misreading you and you're actually town.

Other things probably more worth focusing on atm.

[Keychain]

If you say so.

[Keychain]

Keychain can I get an update on your jodaxq read

She's looking better on reread. I don't think she's the type who'd try to lurk away a wagon, but she's made some good points and seems to have stayed fairly consistent under pressure and is mostly still pushing her reads instead of defending herself.

UNVOTE:

In addition I feel uncomfortable being on this L-2 wagon while Dunnstral is on it from that gut read last year or whenever it was. I want a better idea of the whole playerlist, there's players I need to reread.

But for you, what is the point in this discussion with her? You still think she's town?

town and scum

we should no lynch every day

then mafia, you no kill every night, then see how many days we can get in before the mod gets mad and tells us to kill people!

JK, lets not do that, i wan't to join a game to do that one day, but i don't think this one, i really like the flavor in the vote counts

I saw a game where this actually happened instead of people just talking about it, wish I could find it again.


I'm not going to be on board with any kind of UCV wagon today I think. Too easy to mislynch and if he's scum, he's got buddies and associations with them that will make him easier to sort.

[Keychain]

i wonder how easy this game would be if i took it seriously. lol
i am 100% positive scum want to lynch bait me.

UCV buddy you have to stop saying such

incredibly

scummy things. However - why don't you think scum are WKing you instead?

as you just said you answered the question that was unfair
Was it really unfair lol
It's a pretty typical question

firaja has only done one major thing (push ucv) and the rest of his stuff is non committal
What I said was pretty fine
his motivation for (pushing a mislynch) is self explanatory

his motivation for pushing uc exactly is because Uc isn't a hard target
he probably chose ucv cause assuming and ucv are both town you can easily appear to be scumhunting by pushing based off of that interaction
which is why his (real) entrance to the game was focused on cy;uc, progresses into the uc push
hangs out there
doesn't attract lot of pressure





Side note 133 is still best post in the game

I'm starting to understand you now. We were talking about different things.
The scum motivation for UCV's actions are to mislynch me. He chose me because I was the other significant wagon.

no because i can meta read you. you are either town PR or scum!

... crikey.

as you just said you answered the question that was unfair
Was it really unfair lol
It's a pretty typical question

firaja has only done one major thing (push ucv) and the rest of his stuff is non committal
What I said was pretty fine
his motivation for (pushing a mislynch) is self explanatory

his motivation for pushing uc exactly is because Uc isn't a hard target
he probably chose ucv cause assuming and ucv are both town you can easily appear to be scumhunting by pushing based off of that interaction
which is why his (real) entrance to the game was focused on cy;uc, progresses into the uc push
hangs out there
doesn't attract lot of pressure





Side note 133 is still best post in the game

Hey buddy who's scum

Can we lynch keychain

love you too

In addition I feel uncomfortable being on this L-2 wagon while Dunnstral is on it from that gut read last year or whenever it was.

On who............................ oh

UNVOTE:

My bad, I'm going to read up on this in the morning, been kind of busy

I don't know why I'm being singled out for you as if I'm a substantial piece of the puzzle right now

It's your lack of substance that's getting you "singled out". L-2 on a wagon that I'm getting cold feet on is going to get me off it. It's worse when there's someone just parked on it with no reason behind their vote, no reaction to the wagon development, nothing. You're being a blind spot in kind of an important place, versus wavemode and EE who are being blind spots on the periphery.


I'm having a sit down to work things out because I think I'm losing track of threads but while I do

VOTE: Everyone Else

how about

reads

You're just scraping by with the bare minimum, but it seems like you're keeping up in some way. You must have some thoughts.

[Keychain]

Yes yes your Joda wagon died and you are sad so now you want cy instead. I'm thinking.

I'm having a sit down to work things out because I think I'm losing track of threads

I got through most of the players but I need to stop for the night.

Right now, from town to scum:
Firaja
wavemode
Katyusha
Havo
Dunnstral
UC Voyager
Everyone Else
cytheflyguy

Leaves Transcend, Zach, Joda and schadd for tomorrow. I'll have more interesting things to say when I've finished the rest of the playerlist, hopefully.

I have learned that scum tend to contribute more because

most people prefer to play scum.

(bolding mine)

I missed this the first time round. I just... ahahahaha is this really true? I certainly don't prefer scum Do you have any sources for this bold claim, UCV?

[Keychain]

Not until I've finished

Remind me what you think about UCV again?

[Keychain]

Welcome, North and Srceen! Lovely to see both of you again. Bye Firaja and UCV.

Joda's dropped out of top three for me. North, do you have anything more than a lean on anyone, or is Joda your top scumread?

[Keychain]

I see, okay.

Let's lynch cy

Sure. I'd also be good with EE and Zach as of right now. There's a couple people "supporting" the EE wagon but not voting him which makes me want to push that, but Cy is probably scum.

VOTE: cytheflyguy


@Zach: I feel like a lot of your scumread on Firaja is scumreading inexperience, and it makes you maintaining a townread on Joda seem really awkward in comparison.

Also

You've been hopping from mislynch to mislynch cause scum are driving lynches

if it wasnt clear before i was reallt asking joda why i'd be lynch shopping as scum with plurality
assuming even two of these wagons could be town makes it not hard to just idle on a wagon...

...how does lynch hopping make me scum and you town

This is extremely frustrating. I had serious problems with lurkers/replacements in my newbie game and I considered not playing anymore because of it. I was told, however, that beyond the newbie queue this was a lot less of a problem. Like yeah it's a small sample size but we have two people who are not doing anything and are clearly prod dodging (Everyone Else and Dunnstral), we have two people being replaced with a third looking like it's on its way. On top of that, we have "active" members like Schadd who hasn't hardly posted anything relevant and Katyusha who admits she's been useless. It's a pretty bad time when I'm talking about Wavemode as having one of the better contributions to the game.

I agree, it's frustrating. You're right, it's a small sample size - some games are better than others in this respect. Newbies

are

really bad for replacements. Don't let this drive you off.

Sort the active players, do what you can to get the content you need out of the lurkers, appreciate the players who replace into a flaked slot.

[Keychain]

I'm guessing it's the lack of activity as deadline approaches, seems pretty self explanatory. If you've got things to say, you should say them soon.

I was townreading Firaja, but you seem a lot scummier. You also haven't changed your vote since replace in, and it's on the leading wagon when we have plurality lynch Where do you want it?

Would all the lovely people who just got prodded be able to chip in just a little bit? Maybe figure out where they want to vote?

VOTE: Everyone Else
I don't like that hop onto Srceen and Transcend has abandoned me on Cy.
Havo, you're not a double voter, are you?

[Keychain]

Hmm, okay, different senses of time. I don't celebrate Thanksgiving so I didn't take that into account, but things have been slowing down and it feels like it's not going to pick up until the deadline is much closer. Then there'll be the scramble.

I'd rather not share the details of my read on you until you're done getting into the game. Then we can talk about it.

Yo key

The slot is empty

I can't really vote it

Just because it's empty doesn't mean it's not scum, but yeah I get you

You wanna vote EE instead then? I'd prefer that over Joda rn. What were your thoughts on him?

Like

I really do not feel like I'm tunneling on UCV. I've said at least once that I'm willing to change my vote if someone can present a strong argument against it or a stronger argument for someone else and I've gotten neither. In fact, a lot of people either also voted UCV or admitted he'd be an okay lynch but they'd prefer someone else. That kind of talk is not going to pull me off my read. The only person in this game who opposed a UCV lynch for reasons other than thinking I'm scum has been Zach and I've said multiple times that the "UCV wouldn't play this way as scum" argument doesn't hold water with me.

this seems like town falling for lynchbait, particularly the first line. But you voted her immediately after?

Though my early scumreads are often the most accurate. Ugh.

The Sub Tweets Are Real
But Our Eyes Aren't Real

Vision Is 20/20 Six Eyes Like Mississippi

You... having a moment there?

[Keychain]

It's your lack of substance that's getting you "singled out". L-2 on a wagon that I'm getting cold feet on is going to get me off it. It's worse when there's someone just parked on it with no reason behind their vote, no reaction to the wagon development, nothing. You're being a blind spot in kind of an important place, versus wavemode and EE who are being blind spots on the periphery.

And that's tactical vs me not being here?

You're kind of suspicious keychain, are you scum? (I'll read up I've been neglecting this game)

I'm not scum, no. I don't know how you think I'm suspicious if you haven't been reading the game

I don't think it was tactical? You're acting like I'm hard scumreading you for it or something.

Not being happy with a blind spot on a leading wagon and so putting the brakes on until it's cleared up ≠ thinking that blind spot is lurker scum. You don't need to be defensive.

Espeonage Replaces cytheflyguy.

Welcome, Espeonage!

VOTE: Espeonage

[Keychain]

Id bet money Espe has a town slot lol

I disagree but we'll see. You getting that read from Espeon or Cy?

I'm probably



VOTE: EE

Why didn't you do this when I was voting him?


Also Dunnstral popped his head in, do you have any thoughts on that?

[Keychain]

Oh, Katya's back! Yay. Even if she doesn't read my posts sorry for walling but it's how I try balance out my infrequent posting.

I really don't know what to do with schadd, he and Katya are on a similar level for me of "could go either way".

I'm sceptical of the wagon analysis. Looks too easy to manipulate as scum, and too easy to just see what you want to see as town.

@Katya: My notes are all on my computer damn it so I'm working from memory. But regarding Firaja - when I reread him the "wishy washiness" you mention in 653, which I also didn't really like earlier in the game, came across way more like an indicator of uninformedness than scum trying to stay below the radar. Like 37 and 42, way early - that doesn't look like scum trying to look like they're contributing, that looks like town unsure of their reads.

Can I interest you in a Cy/Espeon case if I try and edit 50% of the words out of it after I write it the first time?

[Keychain]

Happy thanksgiving! I'll do that sometime this evening then, when I'm on my laptop. I can't really tell what's a wallpost while on my phone and I need to reference stuff.

You sure like those ™s, don't you? Though you've done yours with superscript.

TM
^TM
™

[Keychain]

i'd say i'm fully in this game now even if i still haven't gotten around to wall iso-ing everyone yet - feel free to engage. the same goes for keychain, who i believe said something along the same lines.

Why no vote? Also, I don't think you've given your read on the Cy/Espe slot, I'd like to hear that.

Regarding Dunnstral vs EE: For me, Dunnstral is null. Voting there is literally a lurker-lynch. It looks a lot like he's only skimming a couple of recent posts each time he says anything, from his response to me and his vote on Espe. Your 701 is seriously weird. Dunnstral is an awful lynch for today and I'm sure you can do better than that.
EE is also lurking but his actions have been considerably more scummy. Every time someone votes him he appears and splashes around a bit. It doesn't seem like uninvested town, who I don't think would be so bothered by a bit of pressure. 462 and 506 were particularly bad as posts that looked like he was trying to exist in the game but contributed exactly nothing.

What benefit do you get out of trying to equalise the two?

VOTE: Espeonage

gut scummy

but why must you do this to the wagon

I'm

on

@keychain, can you explain your reads progression on cy? it seems like you came out of an early game interaction townreading him but there's about a 350 post gap where he doesn't come up at all until 517, where he's at the bottom of the list. what happened?

This can serve as my Cy case, which I promised I'd do last night but ah well.

517 was made after reviewing the ISOs of the players listed, which is when the change mostly occurred. However you've also missed signs of my townread wavering in 209.

Several things that I initially townread him for came across really scummy on reread. For example, I have no idea what I was thinking when I unvoted in 110 and said I "particularly liked point A" in 107. On reflection, the point takes some severe mental gymnastics. For reference:

A) My train of thought was not, "If I can trust this person, and Transcend has a higher than normal chance of being scum, then he should be prodded because he is more than likely scum in this game."

It was, "If I can trust this person, and Transcend has a higher than normal chance of being scum, he would probably have a higher chance of not playing because he is scum and does not want to play the same role once again, as he was the only person to not confirm." The reason I fell for the joke was because the statistics relied on behavior, especially the part about if someone replaced him. It's flimsy logic, yeah, but if you read my posts, I did not 100% agree with UC, I was just talking statistics so I could anticipate behavior.

Like ??? how did I townread this. The main problem I had with him was on him not reading the players in the game, and this is just a terribly convoluted excuse to have not been doing that.

The early Transcend meta thing still rings really false to me, though 18 suggests it really is a genuine misunderstanding because it looks like he thought that Transcend was less likely to stay in games where he's town so I'm conflicted over that one.

Then overly defensive in 61/72 and easily persuaded to vote by Katya in 76. 96 A) is a really bad excuse, in that from an early game post he decided to throw out everything he'd ever known about mafia to engage in some meta speculation about a player he didn't know not confirming for alignment-related reasons because... he thought everyone was going to be doing this?

I still dislike the solid townread on me in 107 considering how unsure he seems to be of other reads, and renewing it in 143 comes across really appease-y.
381 "been meaning to move my vote somewhere else" doesn't look like a town thought process - his vote was on a scumread of his as I understand it (Firaja) and it looks like he cares an awful lot about what he looks like.
400's "Like...isn't that questionable logic? Like even more questionable than my original blunder" is pretty icky, because he's acknowledging that he looks scummy but is trying to shift people scumreading him for it onto Transcend.

Those are the reasons he was at the bottom of my list. At this point I'm finding it hard to see his actions as town-motivated.


@Zach 692:

[Keychain]

ah sorry to see you go.

[Keychain]

by the way, nice hat!

addendum to the last non-hat related post:

VOTE: Espeonage

gut scummy

but why must you do this to the wagon

I'm

on

it seems here that you even recognize that dunnstral's hop-ons are scummy - why place such a huge divide between the two?

Thanks! And it's not that I think it's scummy, that's not what I was pointing out. I was laughing that he made nearly the exact same post as 269 that I complained about before. Also the divide between "null" and "lean scum" is... not huge.

responding to the first part of this separate from the second.

i'd say i'm fully in this game now even if i still haven't gotten around to wall iso-ing everyone yet - feel free to engage. the same goes for keychain, who i believe said something along the same lines.

Why no vote? Also, I don't think you've given your read on the Cy/Espe slot, I'd like to hear that.

i'm waiting on schadd. cy had a really awkward rvs and nothing else he did really stood out to me. nothing espe has done has looked particularly townie to me, either - i'd be willing to lynch there.

Regarding Dunnstral vs EE: For me, Dunnstral is null. Voting there is literally a lurker-lynch. It looks a lot like he's only skimming a couple of recent posts each time he says anything, from his response to me and his vote on Espe. Your 701 is seriously weird. Dunnstral is an awful lynch for today and I'm sure you can do better than that.
EE is also lurking but his actions have been considerably more scummy. Every time someone votes him he appears and splashes around a bit. It doesn't seem like uninvested town, who I don't think would be so bothered by a bit of pressure. 462 and 506 were particularly bad as posts that looked like he was trying to exist in the game but contributed exactly nothing.

i'm not really sure why there's such a huge divide between the two to you, and to me dunn's actions seem a lot scummier. i don't think only responding to posts about you is a scumtell, at least when it comes to lurkers. i say this because there have been games i've been in that i've found it hard to get into and i find myself only responding to either comments about me or questions directed towards me. dunnstral, on the other hand, only seems to hop in to vote the consensus wagon. i'm not saying either are the best lynch today - what i'm saying is that the people who want an everyone else lynch should really be looking at dunnstral instead.

What benefit do you get out of trying to equalise the two?

why are you assuming that i'm scum here? i'm really not sure what to make of this comment. i would think confbias but you don't seem to show that anywhere else. why do you assume that i have some ulterior motive or gain some benefit out of examining dunnstral, as opposed to it being my actual thoughts and a genuine attempt to get into this game?

A crucial part of my towngame is throwing out my good reads to tunnel on town, don't you know? not sure why you'd think I'm confbiasing on you when I've told you I strongly townread your slot though.

I'll concede that my reasoning for EE isn't strong, but I still don't like how you're trying to talk me into scumreading a slot that has done nothing. I'm happy to leave him until he can get into the game.

I'm referring to your persistence in comparing the two, as shown in these posts.

Spoiler:

will attend to this later! nsg asked for townreads and explanations and i can give one of those transcend keychain wavemode maybe dunnstral espeonage? did espeonage replace fajita

the explanations are the more important part of that equation so i'd still appreciate those, but this is still useful.


for all of you voting everyone else, why isn't dunnstral the better lynch? while everyone else hasn't even been putting forward the pretense of scumhunting or playing the game, dunnstral's gut reads and votes seem to suspiciously align with the popular wagons at the time. is there some meta aspect that i'm missing here?

(should also point out that his gutread on me was scum, and I don't think I've been a popular wagon at any point)

nsg, lol

?

Lol

*Why EE

I can't say his posts aren't doing shit because they are, he's aware when he enters the game, they're just deliberately not doing nothing which is pretty scummy

Same with Dunnstral

schadd is also a non entity but he's also wavy so I'm fine with having my read be dynamic there
schadd is more or less doing the same thing he was doing the whole game he's just not posting him now which is why katyusha kind of confuses me

I have unfortunately been delaying getting into this game

this is all he's said lmao

so what made you choose ee over dunnstral?

im getting voted on?

I really don’t know why we aren’t lynching this?

There is no kind of consensus.

why that over this?

so what made you choose ee over dunnstral?

i don't put priority on scum
but the outside possibility exists that dunnstral is just being a fuck nugget. which is something that's actually liable to have happened


i dont care tho id vote either way

huh

If you are town, you must have a reason. I scumread Cy for trying to analyse an absent player and the situation roughly applies here too. Your actions make sense as town if you're suspicious of the EE wagon and you're looking for scum on it. But you say you're suspicious of Dunn, and you're trying to move people compromising on a lurker onto a

different

lurker. Do you see why that might set off alarm bells for me?

[Keychain]

Same. Hi LUV!

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

I really didn't like your entrance in any way, at all.

I’m focusing on Dunn right now because I scum read him and I recall a few people grouping him with my slot so there seems that there is actual interest there.

Why are you scumreading him?

Who wants to do Dunn?

It doesn’t help sort Zach but it can and most likely will cut down on the noise in the future.

could you elaborate on this?

They tend to tunnel each other pretty aggressively whenever they’re in a game together which leads to a lot of noise that no one wants to read.

This is an awful, awful reason, considering how much noise you make. Weird way to try and gain support.

I’m not going to focus on pushing my scum reads much right now unless we’re given a deadline extension. I’m focused on achieving the best lynch.

Best lynch is

scum

, christ almighty

An important thing you seem to be missing is an explanation of why you townread the leading wagon.

[Keychain]

Hi Keychain!

I have my own reasons for scum reading Dunn that’ll get into a bit. However the game state is why I threw out my suggestion. It feels like a combination of people sniffing for reasons to push a policy lynch and/or mindlessly scrambling to get a lynch in. I don’t feel like I have enough time to try prevent either of those things and I don’t feel like I’m going to learn anything if any of the leading wagons flip. I also town read them. I rather just go with the collective for now, let our PRs do their thing, and analyze the data Day 2 if we’re not given an extension.

You still didn't explain why you townread them. I live and breathe reasons, don't let me die thanks.
That's an interesting view on the game state, by which I mean I disagree completely though my gamestatemeter is generally pretty rubbish.

Plurality lynch means that town doesn't have to scramble to avoid a no lynch, and if they're "scrambling" it's because they are invested and want their scumreads lynched instead of their townreads, and I don't know why you'd call that mindless.
Alternatively scrambling indicates scum with a teammate at risk. If that's what you perceive as the gamestate, why aren't you using that information?

You are the one who has used policy as a reason for your preferred lynches, I don't think anyone else has - if anything the push to lynch Dunnstral comes across really badly to me and I still don't understand why you'd go for that. When there's slots talking, lynching a lurker gives the least amount of information to town for D2. If that's something you're concerned about, I don't understand why this is your preferred lynch. Flipping a leading wagon is considerably more useful.

I don’t think you’ve played with me to call me a noisy player so I’d like to know where this is coming from.

Mmm, true. Maybe a bit uncharitable on my part, sorry. I'm mostly going off the fact that you replaced in about five hours ago and have nearly filled two pages all on your lonesome. Also I do read other parts of the site, such as MD.
Your reasoning is still shite regardless.

All I can say is put yourself in my shoes. You replace in with 2 days left and you don’t scum read any of the current leading wagons, you think scum are playing town hard, you have your own scum reads and are confident in them but know it’s going to be a dog fight to get traction on them and/or lynched, but you noticed one of your scum reads generated some interest so you feel it might be worth a shot.

If you're confident, start your dog fight, then. Which of

Dunn, Havo, Katy, Keychain, and Schadd

do you most want lynched (because they're

scum

not because you don't like their towngame), independent of how likely it is that it'll go through?

I actually don’t know what North wants to argue with me about.

...who are you talking to

[Keychain]

Oh hey Espe. Remember that time in 735 you thought Joda was a good wagon? Why did you change your mind?

[Keychain]

Oh hi schadd! Always lovely to read your posts.

So just thinking out loud.

LUV is happy to provide policy reasons for his preferred lynches in 832, 833 and 841 and critique the reasoning of others, but refuses point blank to even say who his top scumread is. This doesn't seem like town replacing in and trying to get their opinions out (@Srceen 861) before night or trying to work with a fractured town to get a better lynch than the options on the table.

Sure, I prefer it when people give their reasons because it means I can actually get some kind of read on them, it helps me evaluate my own reads, and it just makes me all around more useful when people don't stonewall me. Because... team game, yay town, working together etc.
But this deliberate refusal to try and lynch scum despite the proven ability of this town to change wagons on a dime and the fact that you don't even need a

majority

is bizarre and I really can't just write it off as playstyle.

But maybe I'm wrong and I'm thinking I might be. I could also go for Espe or Joda. I just want some kind of information to work with.

Though

Yep if everyone else gets their vanity wagon I'm gonna get mine.

Vote: Havo

I’ve been TR by half the players and I’m obvious town.

But keep digging your own graves.

this is so, so cringe.

Also Joda

Uzi has gained some points with me for not breaking down and voting schadd out of self-preservation.

?
I just can't see why he would vote schadd out of self preservation as any alignment, what do you mean?


(

Happy birthday, mod!

)

[Keychain]

Nah you're all right.
VOTE: Espeonage
Vastly prefer this over schadd

[Keychain]

I'll be back two hours before deadline.

[Keychain]

gg scum <3

This is my first town win!!

[Keychain]

gg scum <3

This is my first town win!!

wait actually???

thats so sad im glad to have been a key player though

Yeah it's hilarious. Thanks for saying such lovely things about my townplay You did awesome Day 2.



Also yes thank you so much for modding KidAmn, it was very fun while it lasted and the flavour was enjoyable to read.

[Keychain]

Wait Day 2 ended really quick, didn't it? Day 2

and

3.