I just gotta vote you after last game <3
Mini Normal 1980: TwoInAMillion - The First Game(Town Win!)
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Pocketed!
In all seriousness, it was actually quite subtle. I didn't catch on for like three days until the vanilla stuff and then I let you talk me out of it lol
Have you played with UCV before?
Why does this feel good?
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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a) If everyone starts off as town, why'd you feel the need to announce that you were giving me in particular a townread? And you said 'have a townread' That implies that your read on me changed.
b) You just put a dude that you say is probably town to L-1 on page 2 without announcing it.
p-edit: yeah that.
p-edit #2: what the hell.-
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I just spent like a very frustrating week trying to figure out if Seph was scum in MYLO. It was the most recent game I'd played with anyone here (well, besides Lalendra, who was in that game).In post 40, CultOfAthena wrote:Clusk and skitter both avoid the Frogger wagon. Skitter's vote on the Sephiroth wagon seems to me to be a repeat of Lalendra's reasoning, which is odd.
Skitter also takes what seems to me to be an obvious joke in 21 seriously. Skitter, did you think FL wasn't joking?
I don't think RVS wagons are inherently interesting or meaningful by themselves. They become interesting when people ascribe meaning to them, like when someone casts a L-1 vote on page 2 without announcing it, or when someone starts attributing motivation to people's interactions with the wagon.
Yes, I knew he wasn't being serious, but the post felt artificial and so I asked him about it so that he would talk about it more.-
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I don't think jesters are normal. He likes to do reaction tests as both alignments. I actually don't think it's AI for him.In post 38, Sephiroth wrote:I don't think hes trolling but I also don't think there's an acceptable reason to put someone at -1 when you think they're town. Maybe he is a jester, who the fuck knows.
unvote, vote: flavorleaf
What was the purpose of this vote?
Why the unvote first?
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I'm having trouble articulating this, but I'll try.In post 52, CultOfAthena wrote:
Really? I find that RVS is often theIn post 47, skitter30 wrote:I don't think RVS wagons are inherently interesting or meaningful by themselves. They become interesting when people ascribe meaning to them, like when someone casts a L-1 vote on page 2 without announcing it, or when someone starts attributing motivation to people's interactions with the wagon.bestplace to try to catch scum out – they haven't had a chance to fully put their defenses up yet, and with little town content to go off of they'll usually fall back on certain easy to find principles: don't stand out, try to distance yourself from buddies, look for any easy targets to jump on, et cetera.
What's "interesting" about attributing motivation to people's interactions with the wagon?
Like these sorts of wagons are usually used as a vehicle to get out of RVS. Like they're used to initiate conversation, exactly like you're doing here. We're having this convo now because you found the fact that I stayed off the wagon to be worth probing. To me, the Fro99er wagon now has meaning and has become interesting, because people care enough about it to talk about it.
While it's probably significant that the wagon built on Fro99er in particular, until these convos start happening, I won't be able to understand or see that significance, until people start talking about it and interactions build and conversations happen. I can't see the things you like about RVS wagons until people care enough to start talking about them.
I dunno, I hope that made sense.
p-edit: I can't keep up with you people lol.-
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Got it; was wondering what the point of a *second* reaction test along the same vein wasIn post 64, CultOfAthena wrote:It was a fake hammer – a reaction test. I didn't have anything specific I was looking for in responses, just looking for responses in general. Frogger ruined it, however.-
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a) sheIn post 54, Stitch wrote:VOTE: Skitter
Imo he's just pointing out what the jester wannabe is doing as weird to look good. He's putting 0 pressure on the slot.
b) He does this sort of thing a lot, and I don't really know how to read him in general. What kind of pressure are you expecting me to exert there?
OK, what do you think you found about Seph?In post 59, BigYoshiFan wrote:Just wanted to get off the wagon. Then I found something, saw someone else vote for that player, and just followed suit.
Yeah, this basically. Like as it's happening, I don't think it's meaningful by itself, but as these discussions happen and interactions build, it gains significance.In post 79, CultOfAthena wrote:Okay, I think I understand more of what you're saying now. I thought you were saying those things were "interesting" to try to cast shade without actually making a concrete statement. RVS wagons and these early discussions are all just something to take into context when reviewing later in the game, anyways.-
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I got distracted, but I want to follow up on this, especially in context of how Flubber started last game.In post 38, Sephiroth wrote:I don't think hes trolling but I also don't think there's an acceptable reason to put someone at -1 when you think they're town. Maybe he is a jester, who the fuck knows.
unvote, vote: flavorleaf
So, if you don't think he's trolling, do you think he meant that seriously? Like, do you think scum would *really* do that?-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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spoilered cuz I have a tendency to write a lot.
Spoiler: @Seph
Spoiler: @Stitch
Spoiler: @stitch, pt 2
OK, why?In post 113, Fro99er wrote:1) more confident in skitter-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Me. I think it's inherently NAI *for him*.In post 201, BigYoshiFan wrote:Also, can you quote where people dismissed that vote as his meta? No matter who the person is, I wouldn't categorize it as a scum move, and I thought people were just following that train of thought.
(It was in a spoiler a few pages back, you may have missed it)
I don't know if I can talk about how I'd feel about it in general, because I think someone's likeliness to do so depends on what type of player they are. Me doing that would be bizarre, to say the least. But if it was in a vacuum with someone I don't know at all, I think I'd probably find it at least a little bit scummy.
Yeah I think after that whole convo I'm agreeing with you now. (I really hope this doesn't come back to bite me lol, so this is with a grain of salt).In post 205, Creature wrote:Someone still scumreads Sephiroth?-
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Yeah I thought that was pre-mature tbh. I don't know if it's scummy.In post 216, Sephiroth wrote:Does no one else find fro99er scummy for asking me to claim for no reason?
Yes, but I think this is an inherently pointless question because everyone's going to answer it this way.
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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OK, going through that again and more slowly:
Were you trying to get a reaction from her or from everyone else? What do you think about her?In post 197, Flavor Leaf wrote:@skitter - i forgot I naked voted Lalendra for gigs, but it didn’t elicit anything, so I forgot about it, haha.
Well, I did vote you in the end, but you created enough doubt that I didn't feel strong enough about it to get Serg to vote with me.In post 203, Sephiroth wrote:(and also because I convinced skitter not to vote me)
Either way, I'm pretty sure you're town here; I now have a baseline for your scumgame, and this game is sufficiently different from that one to make me think you're town. (Namely: post frequency, you're interested in getting discussion going, your posts are more emotional and reactionary instead of rationally dissecting things; you change your stances more frequently and more fluidly. Especially the last two.).
What do you think about Frogger now?In post 166, Sephiroth wrote:Actually I take it back. Frogger isn't scum necessarily. I misconflated something they said with something yoshi said.
Townpings from this. He's being honest. FL kinda set up that question to imply that he was expecting a townread from him, and Yoshi just answered it directly with what he really felt instead of answering it the way FL seemed to have wanted.In post 208, BigYoshiFan wrote:To be honest, I didn't pay attention to most of the game; however, I did leave thinking you were a decent endgame player. Early game I honestly don't know how you did. Either way, one game doesn't define your meta, especially if you're self-aware.
This feels fabricated.In post 240, Flavor Leaf wrote:Also, Creature’s likely town. I like his fluff posts, and see them as himetting people know he’s here, and he’s trying to figure things out, but isn’t sure where to go yet, rather than him just not playing, if that makes sense.
Ok, I see where you're coming from.In post 246, Fro99er wrote:
read page 6 as me knowing I know I'm townIn post 244, skitter30 wrote:Why? He's completely null to me right now.
I'm tending to thinking that you're town here. (Namely: for fake-hammering yourself at L-1 and keeping yourself within hammer range on page 2; I feel like scum are less likely to keep themselves in a position where it would be easy for them to get lynched there; the strength of your screen read; makes sense that you feel that strongly about him in that context).-
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Lots of people did lots of incredibly stupid things that game (vigging a universal townread when there was strong evidence there may be an SK, lying about thier role, quickvoting in MYLO, lying through massclaim, lying about their role when they claimed the day after massclaim in a way that directly affected town's chances of winning the game), so getting frustrated each time someone does something stupid (self-voting, throwing out L-1 on page 2) appears to be a waste of my energy because I'd be spending waaaay too much time annoyed at people.
viewtopic.php?p=9829013#p9829013 - I decided to stop getting annoyed here when people do stupid shit because people do irrational things a lot and it's silly getting annoyed at all of them.
I don't really know what you think I'd be paranoid about here (I also don't think I was paranoid early last game. Endgame, yes. Early game, not really.)
Going off of last game, I'm pretty sure Seph is just town here. I don't especially care if you don't like the townread, but I feel most confident in this right now. His game is sufficiently different from last game that I don't think he's scum; I don't think he changed his scumgame this much in four days.
I don't understand what you're saying about UCV. Why do you think I know he's town there?
For FL, I never thought it was serious, I didn't really get why he was bringing it up in the first place, which is why I was asking him about it. There is someone on site who literally reads me like that ('she's been scum in all of my games with her so she's scum here too', for three games in a row, and I couldn't talk him out no matter what I did), but I don't exactly expect that from FL. However, it was an interesting enough statement that it was worth probing, because I'm still not sure why he felt the need to announce that he was giving me a townread at that juncture. The logic he gave wasn't really what was bothering me and I didn't take it seriously; it was the fact that he bothered to announce he was giving me a townread at all, and if it was genuine, I wanted to know what it was really based on given that the reason he gave was obviously bs.
And yes, I knew it was a second fake-hammer, which is why I asked her about it, (Again, note that it was a very general question). Namely, I understand the point of the fake-hammer - to get reactions - and that's why I didn't ask you about it once I remembered you were on the wagon (At first I thought you self-hammered and I was confused as fuck till I went back to the vc). I didn't really get the point of someone doing it *a second* time, but once she answered I realized that there was only like a five-minute difference between yours and hers, and that you had gotten to doing it first before she decided not to do it.
COA had commented about me not joining your wagon, so I explained why.
I think that's everything, but I gotta go nowish for like a day (I'm Orthodox Jewish and a Sabbath observer), but we can talk about all of that
more when I get back tomorrow night.
p-edit: @FL It felt fabricated. Yes, I've played with you as scum and I know you BS'd stuff (that's what I meant by fabricated). It feels fake. I don't know if it's scummy (which is why I didn't call it that) for you given that you often BS things, but it still feels fake.-
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This is beyond NAI for me, and I literally point this out to people each game. I usually get townread for this, but this is an awful reason to townread me, and I tell people that. It's an awful reason to scumread me too, cuz yeah, you're right, I can fake these sorts of posts without *that* much difficulty. It's NAI. The number of posts I make is a much better scumtell for me; if it looks like I'm lurking and I go like a day without posting, I'm probably scum. It's really that simple for me. (Not posting cuz I'm v/la over the weekend doesn't count and isn't AI).In post 273, Flavor Leaf wrote:viewtopic.php?p=9522015#p9522015
Look at 382/383, and hell, just look at her iso. She does do these quote wall things as scum, and pretty similarly as she is here. She even interacts with scum partners a good amount.
I’m using this to anyone who would think she’s town for those posts specifically moreso than to say she does that as scum.
If we're quoting things from last game:
viewtopic.php?p=9756594#p9756594
I"m not really sure why you've made this post in the first place given that you don't think it's AI, and I don't believe anyone else said they thought it was AI either; I'm not really sure who your audience is.
To be quite honest, this post actually feels broadly discredit-y, given that you're framing my posting style as something scummy when you and I both know that it's NAI. I know that you ended up saying that you *don't* scumread me for it, but the fact that you're bringing it up here is kinda weird given that *nobody* has mentioned this as AI in the first place.
a) I didn't say, nor did I imply, that you *had* to fabricate reads. I have, however, witnessed you making stuff up to get people lynched (Eddie in 1931 during the PR clusterfuck; you kept on going on and on about perspective slips he was making which was obviously false given that he was town and you knew that he was town). It still feels fake. I don't know why you'd do that, but it doesn't feel genuine to me.In post 276, Flavor Leaf wrote:Why would I have to fabricate reads? I believe I even gave you my thoughts on how scum should Justin look for mistakes town players make, and see that as scum, so even if I was scum I wouldn’t have to fabricate anything.
b) You agree with me that you make stuff up - 'I have a degree in BS'ing' from 271 - so I don't really understand what you have a problem with in the first place, or what this convo is even about tbh.
c)Yeah, I remember that convo; you exploit mistakes to scumread people and get them lynched. I'm not sure why this is particularly relevant to the topic at hand given that I'm not talking about scumreads, but rather a townread you gave Creature. Like I get what you're saying about *scumreads* and why you feel you don't need to fake them, but I don't get what this has to do with what I'm talking about or townreads at all.
d) I also don't get why you're taking this convo as like a personal assault on your meta, or why you're voting me for this.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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K, now that I know you're Mulch, this is bullshit. I don't think you know how to read me properly. You especially clearly don't know how to townread me. I don't remotely understand why you're so confident on this, given that you know *exactly* how I respond to pressure as scum - I panic lurk. I don't understand why you're calling me scum here on meta before I had a chance to react ffs.In post 391, Mulch wrote:Stitch is manipulative and scummy, Skitter is obvious scum through meta, Transcend is obvious scum through meta.
I don't understand the Stitch read (specifically the manipulative part), or the Transcend read.
In post 365, Wrangle wrote:Up to page 8:
Town: Sephiroth, CultofAthena, Fr0gger
Lean town: BigYoshiFan, Screenplay, Flavor Leaf
Null: Transcend, Creature, Lalendra, UC Voyager
Lean Scum: Skitter30, Stitch
Your reads are largely static between page 8 and now. You swapped Yoshi and Creature, and dropped Transcend, but they haven't really changed. You're calling out other people on this (Yoshi), but you're kinda doing it yourself.In post 369, Wrangle wrote:My reads right now:
Town: Sephiroth, CultOfAthena, Fro99er
Lean town: Flavor Leaf, Screenplay, Creature
Null: BigYoshiFan, Lelandra, UC Voyager
Lean scum: Stitch, Transcend, Skitter30
Dude, you're basically calling me scum for this right now.In post 374, Wrangle wrote:However, I've seen town and scum alike take on this style, and I've been burned too many times in the past from scumread people for irrelevant questions. I don't think this should be taken into consideration
In post 371, Wrangle wrote:Their vote on Seph came very early in the game, and they have vote parked them all game. I personally think Seph is extremely towny (and will go into this later), but the fact that they are so hesitant to change their vote (lack of read fluidity) as well as the fact I think their vote is on a townsperson pings scum to me.In post 378, Wrangle wrote:I don't really think it's something that I would push Seph on personally, because I think it's just a misunderstanding, but it's a towny reaction.
All of this reads like to me like you're trying to pocket Seph tbh.In post 386, Mulch wrote:
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a) I don't move my vote a lotIn post 398, BigYoshiFan wrote:I'll explore skitter and the meta-case a bit later. I usually just skip over meta cases of that depth, but if it's supposedly good I'll take a looksy. One thing that stood out is that in 274 he claims Sephiroth as her strongest TR for his play in general, but voted Sephiroth in RVS and parked until post 163. Not something I find particularly scummy, but I want to know why she kept her vote for so long if Sephiroth's play in general read as town.
b) I'm pretty sure he's town *because* of the convo (the one with Frogger and the L-1 and asking to claim) he was having at the time I unvoted him. I wasn't sure until then. That convo was lightyears different from like anything that happened in 1963 (like the sheer emotion/carefreeness in his posts just didn't exist in 1963. He changes his mind, his votes change, his stances change fluidly, he's a lot more casual. He's playing the game with feels and gut instead of rationally dissecting everything). That's why I unvoted when I did and not earlier, because the convo that was happening *then* is what convinced me.
I literally *just* spent a week trying to read him and figure out if 1963 was his scumgame. I now know *exactly* what his scumgame looks like. This isn't it.-
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I'm here:
{Frogger, Seph}
{Yoshi}
{COA}
{Transcend, Creature, Screen, UCV} - null/ don't know how to read.
{Lalendra, FL} - scummier side of null, but closer to null than scummy
{Stitch}
{Mulch}
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-Frogger - Still don't think scum react that way to being put at L-1 on page 2. His case on me is good and well-reasoned, although wrong.
- Seph - this isn't his scumgame, which I think I explained elsewhere. More fluidity, casualness, and emotions than 1963, which was a lot more rigid and methodological and manufactured.
- Yoshi - I also think I explained this elsewhere, but he's ridiculously transparent and just ... guileless is a good word. He's stating things exactly how he sees them.
- COA - I like her posting style and the questions that she's asking, and the follow-through she's exhibiting. I can understand her thought process.
- Srceen - I dunno, I'm just kinda meh on everything he posted. I don't think most of it is AI or unfakeable for scum. Just null to me right now.
- Transcend - Hasn't given me enough content to generate a read; most of his posts are fluff. Not sure why you're townreading either Clusk or Creature (although I find the reaction to Mulch in 401 to be a surprisingly rational way of dealing with him).
-UCV - hasn't given me enough content to generate a read, but his behavior here is reminding me a lot of 1954 tbh, so it isn't surprisng. It's annoying because I had to prod him for content like every two days, but I've seen him do this before, so I'm not going to call him scummy for it.
- Creature - hasn't given me enough content to genreate a read. I don't especially like that he isn't explaining like any of his positions.
- Lalendra - Given 1963, she might just have a scummy posting style. I was getting gutown vibes from 110 from just how .... clueless she was, and read her the same way in 1963 tbh. Her Creature post kinda negated that though, and so now she's somewhere between null and nullscum. Don't like the lack of content.
- FL - no idea how to read him tbh. I really don't like his vote on me, given that it's apparently built on the idea that I ought to know that he doesn't fake things as scum, which is ridiculous given that a) I wasn't calling him scum for that and b)he agrees with me that he BS's all the time, so I don't know what he's taking offense to exactly. I think the reaction was rather over the top. I really don't like how he brought up my posting style and framed it as something I do as scum when he admits in the same post that it's NAI.
-Stitch - I don't like either the Seph or COA votes, as both are kinda bandwagon-y and thinly reasoned. I dislike the fact that after he came back after 10 pages he mainly just continued his argument with one person. His early townread of Yoshi gives me bad vibes but I don't know how to articulate them right now. I don't know why he classified UCV as 'a good lynch' in this gamestate (and why not Lalendra, say?)
- Mulch - I had no opinion on Clusk. Also have no idea how to read Mulch, but a lot of his posts feel kinda manufactured too tbh, and they're reminding me a lot of 1946. He said he was doing that to prove some point, so that might explain the manufacturedness, but it continued even after he dropped the alt. Also most of his positions match thread consensus, and are overly defended. He's being a lot more *thorough* and explain-y than I've seen him in any of his towngames, but I have seen him do this in scumgames (1946). His read on Seph (and to a certain extent Frogger and COA), sounds kinda pocket-y tbh. Reads are static (he has basically the same reads when he was up to page 8 and after he finished his catchup). He's scumreading me on meta when he *knows* how I react to being pressured as scum and this isn't it. (tbf, I hadn't posted in the last day, and I panic-lurk as scum but I quite clearly remember having a convo with him about how I'm v/la on weekends).
VOTE: Mulch-
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If you really want to do this, go for it.
You're townreading Seph, Frogger, COA, all of whom are widely townread. Stitch is generally scumread, as am I. I have no idea what you're thinking on Transcend, given that you didn't explain that.
I acknowledged the fact that it might be because of an alt. It reads manufactured and I can point to posts in 1946 that sound extremely similar.
You're ignoring the part where I think you're pocketing people or that I'm calling you out on having the same reads on page 8 as basically after your catchup.
Your meta tell is bullshit. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73947&user_select[]=29653 ctrl + f for 'like', it only comes up about 381 times. I literally rewrote posts last game for starting every sentance with 'like'.
Here's one random post where I did it five times: viewtopic.php?p=9841829#p9841829
Your meta case in general is bullshit given that I'm pretty damn sure you know how to read me better than this.-
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I don't see how that's a lie. Most people were townreading them. A few people weren't, but if you actually look at people's reads, most people were townreading the two of them.
Same with Stitch (except scumreads, not townreads obviously).
Like number of votes != how town/scumread someone is ffs.
Waxing rhapsodic about Seph, overly explaining a scumread on me, the four trillion words you wrote to explain a scumread. I can pull up similar posts from 1946, but I'm going to need a minute.In post 434, Mulch wrote:
And what do you think is manufactured about it?In post 431, skitter30 wrote:It reads manufactured and I can point to posts in 1946 that sound extremely similar.
Point to specifics, you can't
Dude, you literally just said that me using 'like' is a scumtelll. It isn't, not even remotely.In post 429, Mulch wrote:I didn't want to out this, but every scum game Skitter uses *like* about a fuckton times per game, and as town they don't use qualitative langauge at all. It sucks that I have to give up this meta tell, but I'm too pissed not to bury you right now
Dude, this is my fucking point and the fact that you were scumreading me on meta beofre you had a chance to actually fucking interact with me is pissing me off to no end.In post 436, Mulch wrote:TBh, the speed at which you responded to me (you usually spend time making posts) makes me think you could be town, but It's hard to get past you actually saying lies
I literally can't fake this.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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People can have more than one town/scumread.In post 440, Mulch wrote:In post 437, skitter30 wrote: Like number of votes != how town/scumread someone is ffs.
Say people have three scumreads. They can't be voting all of them at the same time. Therefore, they may be scumreading someone even if they aren't voting them. A number of people were scumreading Stitch. The votes weren't on them. That doesn't mean that they aren't scumread.
I didn't go back and count the number of votes Seph/COA had when you replaced in, but several people who weren't voting them said they were townreading both of them.
I didn't lie. I don't lie, and I don't lie to make cases. (Dude, you know this. I can't fake things). I don't care if you unvote me or not. Your read on me is bullshit. Your meta tell on me is bullshit and provably wrong.In post 441, Mulch wrote:
I kind of believe youIn post 437, skitter30 wrote:Dude, this is my fucking point and the fact that you were scumreading me on meta beofre you had a chance to actually fucking interact with me is pissing me off to no end.
I literally can't fake this.
But
I'm not unvoting you until you admit you lied, even if your town-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Yeah I'm pretty sure you know I'm town here becauseIn post 444, Mulch wrote:Ok then I'm policy lynching you. I don't think your scum anymore but if I was scum I would destroy you in this arguement just because you are so off. So I'm going to keep voting you to prove that my case is righter than yoursI don't fucking react to pressure this way as scum and you know that
Your case is wrong. I'm pretty damn sure you know it's wrong. That's why you're backpedaling here, because this is literally never how I react to pressure as scum ffs and you know that. And I'm ridiculously pissed at you for pushing this idiotic line of reasoning when you should know how to read me.
Keeping your vote on me because you think my reasoning is wrong is idiotic, and yeah, a policy lynch, especially if you think I"m town. Like seriously? You can't accept that your read was wrong ('my case is righter than yours') so you're going to push me as a policy-lynch?
Like you're seriously voting me to prove that your case was right when you think you're wrong.
What the hell?
P-edit: I don't buy the AtE-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Trying to push me as obvious scum on meta before you had a chance to talk with me was really, really stupid, given that you know a *real* tell for me, and not the 'like' one you tried pushing which is ridiculous: I panic-lurk as scum, especially under pressure. If I'm interacting in real-time (especially under pressure) I'm like never scum. If it looks like I'm lurking, I'm scum. If I post just before the prod-timer, I'm scum. You know this, and I'm having a really, really hard time believing that *you* bought the meta case Frogger was pushing.
I still don't get what you're seeing in Transcend.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Because I don't think I know how to read you means that I shouldn't try? And I should ignore you when you're saying things about me that are stupid?
That was also the *only* game I had to try to read you, given that I was scum in all the others we played together, and me reading you wrong wasn't exactly the reason I lost the game. (I mean, in a certain sense, it contributed to the loss because you were mislynched, but that's not the cause of the loss).-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I apologize for contributing to that. I think I'm going to stop posting now for a bit because I don't like how upset I got and I think I need to take a breather.In post 475, Fro99er wrote:This game is no longer fun
Mulch, I apologize for getting angry with you. I still think you're faking a read on me, but I should not have gotten that annoyed at you, nor should I have taken it personally. I apologize.
I know that this is my main tell. I don't know how to fix it. I panic-lurk as scum under pressure and hate doing it but I have a ridiculously difficult time posting as scum in general and this holds even moreso when I'm under any sort of pressure.In post 477, BigYoshiFan wrote:
I really hate when people talk about their own meta with such self-awareness. If you're so aware, you'd take every measure to avoid doing it again.In post 459, skitter30 wrote:Trying to push me as obvious scum on meta before you had a chance to talk with me was really, really stupid, given that you know a *real* tell for me, and not the 'like' one you tried pushing which is ridiculous: I panic-lurk as scum, especially under pressure. If I'm interacting in real-time (especially under pressure) I'm like never scum. If it looks like I'm lurking, I'm scum. If I post just before the prod-timer, I'm scum. You know this, and I'm having a really, really hard time believing that *you* bought the meta case Frogger was pushing.
I still don't get what you're seeing in Transcend.
I panic-lurk. I don't know how to not panic-lurk.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I mean .... I say I'm not going to do that before every scumgame but I end up doing it anyways. Every single time.In post 479, BigYoshiFan wrote:Okay, but if you are scum and this is such an obvious and prominent tell, you're not going to continue to do it. Right? I don't know, a lot of people do this kind of self-aware meta thing. Maybe I haven't played enough games to understand it.
It's not something I can change on a dime just because I'm aware of it and just because I want to (if I could, I wouldn't get called out for lurking like every single scumgame I'm in, given that I've known that this is a thing since pretty much my first scumgame ever).
But I get why you don't like self-meta regardless. I only brought it up because of the meta scumreads I was getting that I felt were largely baseless.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Sorry :/In post 488, Stitch wrote:Tbh I've been avoiding this thread because reading emotions suck and now I have to go to work in like 30 minutes. Fuck everything.
Seph is rage tier, unsure if town or scum caught for wrong reasons but leaning slightly towards the former, need to see how they play with less pressure on the slot
I don't think Mulch pulls "i'm better than you fuck you all" as maf, it seems like a really shitty thing to do
Flavor Leaf isn't doing anything at all and is getting away with it
Skitters is still town especially with recent reactions
Wary of Srceenplay, feels like they were intentionally sticking to the sideline in the whole Mulch debacle
Something about Yoshi's responses to it bothers me too but I need to look again
This is something Mulch can and does do as scum, unfortunately. As town he self-destructs. As scum he freaks out. It's kinda hard to tell the difference though. I'm tending to thinking that this is scum!Mulch though, because of how much he freaked out when he had the one vote on him, which is more of a scumtell for him in my experience; he tends to be more chillaxed when he has a vote or two on him as town, and freaks out when he's close to getting mislynched (referencing 1940, 1931, and 1946. First two are town!mulch games, last is scum!mulch).
I also hate like all of his posts and I'm pretty sure his initial read on me was faked.
What's bothering you about Yoshi?
I disagree. It's tending more to scum!mulch to me tbh.In post 531, Flavor Leaf wrote:This is classic townMulch,
I also dislike how casually he gave you a 'Boon is probably town' read given that the last I was in a game with both of you and town!mulch, he was extremely paranoid of you.
Why was Clusk town? Why are you no longer strongly townreading screen? Who do you think is/was scum on the Mulch wagon?In post 489, Transcend wrote:mulch pulls off a bunch of shitty things as scum my dude
but clusk was town so no need to read him
He does this sort of thing as scum too, so how do you tell the difference?In post 501, Transcend wrote:Because mulch's pred was town and he is an absolute whackjob as town
If it was based on meta from last game, why on earth did you write a multi-paragraph novel explaning your read on him? That's what I was saying - it felt fake and overly explained and forced.In post 526, Mulch wrote:It wasn't because your posts were anything great, because by God they were awful. So how do you think I Was able to correctly identify you as strong town?
If he's just town on meta, why didn't you just say that instead of writing that? I get you were on an alt, but why didn't you just say something like 'I read his last game and he seems town on meta'. You didn't have to say *you were in* his last game and out the alt to make that argument. Frogger was making a meta case on me without being in that game.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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As of right now I think you're scummy. If I'm misreading you and someone like transcend can read you better, I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong so that I can move on to someone else. Right now, from my experience, you're acting more like scum!mulch than town!mulch. If other people think I'm wrong, I'm more than happy to have them explain it.In post 547, Mulch wrote:It's not everyones fault that you can't see the difference
The same way Frogger did - 'I looked at that other game and he's acting different'. I don't know why saying that is scummy.In post 548, Mulch wrote:HOW THE FUCK WAS I SUPPOSED TO MENTION META WHEN I WAS ON AN ALT
STOP TUNNELING AND USE YOUR BRAINS-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I've only had to try to read you in the one game, and you were playing incredibly differently from both your town *and* your scum meta in that game, which I noted and acknowledged there. But I've been with you in like four other games. Yes, I was scum in those four games, but I've personally exploited the Mulch-self-destructs-as-town thing to get you mislynched at least twice, so I know what to look for. I'm not getting that vibe right now. I am seeing a lot of similarities to 1946, however.
Again, if someone wants to explain where I'm going wrong, I'm all ears.
Spoiler:
You sound similar to these, and I can pull up more ^^^
(Holy shit why is your ISO so long???)-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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This literally means nothing to me given that I'm scumreading mulch and am nullscum on you.In post 558, Flavor Leaf wrote:Saw the Skitter post, and he was townMulch yes, but I wasn’t town there. He was right I’m in his paranoia.
TownMulch and TownBoon generally figure out we’re town both pretty early, but then it’s with caution, but Mulch and I on the same page is better than us having to deal with each other.
For all I know you're scumpartners vouching for each other. I don't trust either of you anywhere near enough to trust a read you have on someone else.In post 560, Flavor Leaf wrote:Hmm, that’s a really good post by Skitter.
Mulch, you have to at least accept that regardless of alignment, this is likely the best Skitter has been.
Okay, I’m going to start reading the middle posts I skipped. I’ve been just reading the most current page since I thought I wouldn’t have much time, but I’m hyper alert because of Mulch potential self destruct can happen anytime.
Bolded reads incredibly fake too-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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A) sheIn post 565, Flavor Leaf wrote:
I mean, good play. If he’s scum, and Mulch town, then that’s a fantastic post by Skitter. If Skitter is town, and Mulch is town, Skitter feels he has legitimate reason to push Mulch. If Mulch is scum, and Skitter is town, damn, Skitter caught you good. If they’re both scum, then their theatre is great. I don’t agree with a lot of skitter’s posts necessarily, but some people definitely will, and in Mafia, you don’t need everyone to agree with you.In post 564, Sephiroth wrote:
By good do you mean town-smelling or convincing? What if anything does the post do for your mulch read?In post 560, Flavor Leaf wrote:Hmm, that’s a really good post by Skitter.
B) this post is sooo incredibly fence-sitty and non-committal, given that you accounted for how your statement could be read no matter the alignments of me/mulch.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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OK, why?In post 573, Creature wrote:I thought 425 was pretty incriminating.
Because I felt like you were basically saying that no matter my alignment it was a good post. I also still think the way you worded it felt incredibly fake.In post 574, Flavor Leaf wrote:How is it non commital at all? I feel it’s blatantly clear where I stand considering where my vote is and the fact I’ve literally been saying this is townMulch.
I’m just saying it’s a good post no matter what scenario.
Don't especially want to right now. I'm pretty sure I'm voting scum.In post 584, Sephiroth wrote:skitter you too, let's all vote stitch-
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Eh, you're right. Mulch is still scum, but I can help wagon people.In post 587, Sephiroth wrote:
Why tunnel when you can wagon instead? There's plenty of day remaining.In post 585, skitter30 wrote:Don't especially want to right now. I'm pretty sure I'm voting scum.
VOTE: Stitch
My vote's going back on him later though.
Sorry :/In post 588, Flavor Leaf wrote:
I think I'm still kinda riled up at/by Mulch, and I think I'm overreacting to stuff right now. You're completely right; it's just a game and I'm taking it a bit too seriously and personally just now. I do appreciate the compliment.-
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I kinda think I need to take a step back from Mulch, and look at him objectively again like tomorrow (IRL) or something.In post 593, Flavor Leaf wrote:@Skitter - you still think Mulch is scum, and you’re wagoning one of the first players who started pushing Stitch?
Right now I think he's scum for faking a read on me, and for having made several posts that I think are rather bad.
This, however, made me realize that there's a probably a not-insignificant chance I'm tunneled on him and think he's scum cuz I'm annoyed at him, and has made me realize that I can't look at him objectively right now. I should probably re-evluate him, but it's not something I can do just yet. So for now I think I'm just going to look elsewhere until I can re-evaluate. I do think Stitch is scummy as well, and am willing to wagon him.In post 587, Sephiroth wrote:
Why tunnel when you can wagon instead? There's plenty of day remaining.In post 585, skitter30 wrote:Don't especially want to right now. I'm pretty sure I'm voting scum.
I'm fully aware that Mulch is/was pushing him. Mulch, however, has pushed and/or voted quite a few people since he replaced in, so I don't know if that's terribly significant; I've also seen him distance with partners this way (Serg, 1946). Since I'm also making a conscious decision to step back from Mulch for now, I've decided that I don't especially care atm that he was pushing Stitch. Once I eventually re-evaluate Mulch, I'll decide if this piece of info is relevant or significant.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I don't think that's actually an AI post.
Town:
viewtopic.php?p=9682355#p9682355
viewtopic.php?p=9525579#p9525579
Scum:
viewtopic.php?p=9532079#p9532079
viewtopic.php?p=9592594#p9592594-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I guess I can kinda see what you mean about Yoshi, that he's giving alternate conclusions, but I don't really think he's doing that in order to leave himself an out. I think he's just saying exactly what he thinks. He just seems super transparent to me.In post 634, Stitch wrote:
I don't really have a problem with his Mulch vote. What do you think about Mulch?
I'm not entirely sure why FL is scumreading me either tbh.
I think you're doing a fine job communicatingIn post 637, BigYoshiFan wrote:It's weird, that I play this game about communicating with others yet always feel nervous about sharing my thoughts.-
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@UCV: Probability *reeeeeeally* doesn't work like that.
I think Lalendra has a scummy posting style, but idk, I kinda like her last post.
Especially this part.In post 649, Lalendra wrote:I don't like that stitch came back to a wagon and didn't even bother to comment.
I'm actually getting very similar vibes to 1963 tbh.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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The odds of two coins flipped sequentially both being heads is .25, but each coin flip still has a .5 chance of being heads.
The odds of 4 3-sided dice all rolling 1 is (1/3)^4, but that doesn't change the fact that if you roll the die again, there's still a 1/3 chance of rolling a 1 that last time.
The fact that he was scum in previous games is literally completely irrelevant to his odds of being scum here since it's randomized each time, and role distribution of game 1980 is independent of role distribution of game 1972 or whatever game.
I get what you're saying, but I'm trying to explain to you that you're thinking about it wrong.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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In post 657, BigYoshiFan wrote:I appreciate you, skitter.-
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I've only played with him the once, in 1954, and he played remarkably similarly to here - largely uninterested and popping in once in a while to make some vague, unrelated comment. Was VT. So I've seen him play like this before. I definitely want him resolved (lynch, cop check, vig shot, etc) before LYLO though.
I want to move back on Mulch. Given 1946, his initial read on me was prematurely confident if I'm feeling charitable, faked if I'm not. I pointed out that it was baseless and that he knows how to read me better. He doubled down, and continued to push for my lynch even after he and I both knew he knew I was town. And then he freaked out in a way remarkably similarly to how I saw him react to pressure in 1946.
VOTE: Mulch
I wasn't particularly impressed with how Stitch reacted to being wagoned either; he just kinda ignored it. I feel more confident on scum!Mulch though; I might switch back to Stitch later.
I also feel like the gamestate is stagnating, which kinda indicates to me that scum might be complacent with it.
Also, can someone explain town!creature? I have him as hard null, but the less he does stuff, the more I want to drop him to scumlean.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I kinda attributed your lack of activity last week to Christmas lol, which is why I didn't find it *that* odd that you weren't around just before deadline, but, well you know how that turned out lol.
Idk; I don't do New Year's, but that's a fair enough explanation lol.
I don't especially think Creature is a good lynch today, but he's kinda in that same group as Lalendra/UCV for me: Want them resolved somehow before LYLO.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Me?In post 670, Sephiroth wrote:Who are you into lynching today? Who are you hardline not into lynching today?
I want Mulch. I'd be OK with Stitch, and I would probably compromise on one of {UCV/Lalendra/Creature} at deadline. I don't necessarily scumread any of them right now (they're all like some shade of null), but I do want them resolved at some point, and if we're deadlocked at deadline, I'd be OK with resolving one of them then. FL is tending kinda scummy to me too, but I don't think he's ever a lynch candidate today lol.
I am absolutely not lynching you/frogger/yoshi, probably not CoA either (although I don't like that she hasn't posted in like half a week).-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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You aren't exactly in a lurker group so much as if you continue posting the way you've been posting thus far, I don't think I'm ever going be able to get a good read on you, and I'd therefore want to get you resolved somehow before LYLO.In post 674, Creature wrote:I'm going to the lurker group because I wanted to enjoy some rest?
Like it's not exactly a lurker group, but more of a 'I don't really feel confident reading any of these people right now and I feel like I'm going to be questioning their alignment all game' group.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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I think you're town but I don't understand like any of this. Or more accurately, one of the reasons I think you're town is *because* I don't understand like any of this lol.In post 678, Sephiroth wrote:I'm pretty bad at scumhunting D1 and the game is stagnating so this is where I'm at rn:
: Creature FL YoshiFan SrcreenplayTown pile
: COA UCV LalendraLurker pile
: Skitter MulchScumlean pile
Stitch Transcend Fro99erScummy pile:
Can you explain Creature, FL, Screen, Transcend?
@Transcend: So ... is this miller claim serious, or something you did for the lolz?
@Mulch: I don't understand like any of your votes. What's wrong with Screen's question?
Spoiler: also @mulch-
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I actually feel better about srceen since you posted that; I liked his interaction with yoshi.In post 726, Sephiroth wrote:I feel less good about srceen than when I made that post but meh.
This was kinda hard to read, but I think it's the best post you've made all game.In post 727, Transcend wrote:
- I feel like the game stagnated with the stitch wagon, and yeah I don't super like the vanity wagons
- Can you explain why you think CoA is obvscum?
- Why do you think two of the wagons are on scum?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73947&user_select[]=7927In post 730, BigYoshiFan wrote:You hardly explained them at all. You can't elaborate your reads any further than that? I'm perfectly fine with gut reads, and I pay them respect when used in moderation because sometimes that's all I can use to explain a read of my own, but this just sounds non-committal and frankly scummy. You don't have to decide between two different ways of reading players, employ them both and use it to come to a general read.
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=73948&user_select[]=7927
If Seph's scum here I'd be shocked; he'd have to have drastically changed his scumgame in like four days.
p-edit: same for FL-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Yeah, I got that. I"m asking you to confirm whether or not Mulch is the neighbor of which you speak, cuz if yes, I'd kinda want you to explain why you're hard-townreading him.
(I mean, I want you to explain why you're townreading Mulch regardless, but you said you'd explain the hard-townread on your neighbor once they outed, so I'm trying to find out if that is indeed your neighbor so that you can explain the read).-
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Eh, I kinda like this post tbh. I don't really feel like scum!Stitch decides to start a thing on FL here; there's about 8 easier targets. And agree on like all the FL points.In post 787, Stitch wrote:
According to the OP, people get replaced if they don't post within 2 days of getting prodded, which should make her replace-eligible in about three hours from now iirc correctly.
viewtopic.php?p=9783627#p9783627In post 815, Sephiroth wrote:despite Skitter posting it several times.
scum-readslist ^^^^
Made a ridiculous amount of sense in that gamestate, to the point that I basically got pocketed for it and didn't notice the (minor) holes in it until like three weeks later when he got into a 1v1 with someone else. No real-time interaction like this.
No idea what he's thinking here.In post 678, Sephiroth wrote:I'm pretty bad at scumhunting D1 and the game is stagnating so this is where I'm at rn:
: Creature FL YoshiFan SrcreenplayTown pile
: COA UCV LalendraLurker pile
: Skitter MulchScumlean pile
Stitch Transcend Fro99erScummy pile:
I don't think this is his scumgame. I don't know if I can explain it better than this.
And yeah I agree with Seph. She kinda acts like this as town. No, I've never played with scum!lalendra, so I don't know if she acts differently as scum, but she has acted similarly as town.
Frogger, like even the thing you're calling her out for ('Lalendra says Frogger is town but then votes him), I've seen her do as town:
viewtopic.php?p=9787917#p9787917
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think these things are necessarily scumtells for her.
FWIW, I explicitly do not believe the neighbor claim as stated. Namely, FL might be a neighbor, but I don't think Mulch is his neighbor if he actually is. Also, I can totally see scum!him faking a neighborhood and lampshading that he just did it in another scum game. And UCV was just in that game, so he might just be pre-empting UCV calling bullshit on this tbh.In post 833, Lalendra wrote:I was waffling on Mulch/FL but I am inclined to believe the neighbor claim. My first thought was that it could be scum using neighbor as a way out but I don't think FL would have come right out and said he just won a scum game with a fake neighbor claim if that was his gambit here (unless he felt someone would check his meta and pre-empted it by doing that, which is WIFOM but would still make the claim risky).
She had an argument with Seph in 1963 where she seriously held the position that Seph was scummy because he had more than three scumreads on day 1, and everyone knows that if you have three scumreads, they must be a team together, so having more than three scumreads means that he thinks that there's more than three scum, and everyone knows that mini normals are 10:3, so Seph is scum because he has more scumreads than are possible.In post 851, Fro99er wrote:Also that creature point is laughably bad.
And then the next day she had more than three scumreads, didn't see the problem with it given the argument she had the day before, forgot about her major scumread in her opening day readslist (which hadn't changed or anything; she just actually forgot about him), and Seph got her lynched for it ... so, given that context, I find Seph's position to be rather reasonable, and although I don't think she's making that much sense, I don't think that's a scumtell for her. Like I think she actually might be this clueless/disengaged.
It's not that she can't do this as scum so much as I've seen her post like this as town.-
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like, all my reads are colored by meta. Seph isn't scum here on meta. I don't know how to explain this better. I have no idea what alignment Lalendra is. I don't especially think I can read her. I don't know if she's town. I don't know if she's scum. I do know that I literally *just* saw her get mislynched for acting this way.In post 868, Fro99er wrote:But maybe they're all just town and have these strong meta reads of each other.
Can you like explain this? I still don't get it. Like ... who exactly are the people you think he's trying to please?In post 921, Flavor Leaf wrote:Of course you are, you’re people pleasing again. But like I said, I’m in the midst of doing a Last Night Tomorrow right now.