Mini Normal 1980: TwoInAMillion - The First Game(Town Win!)

[skitter30]

VOTE: Seph

I just gotta vote you after last game <3

@mod:

Always v/la on Fridays and Saturdays.

[skitter30]

Pocketed!

In all seriousness, it was actually quite subtle. I didn't catch on for like three days until the vanilla stuff and then I let you talk me out of it lol

Have you played with UCV before?

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

This feels good

Why does this feel good?

[skitter30]

@Fl:

Yeah, as far as I know, the only games I've played with you were 1931 and 1940, and we were both scum.

Are you really trying to give me a townread for that reason? Cuz I'm quite sure you know that alignments don't work like that lol

[skitter30]

a) If everyone starts off as town, why'd you feel the need to announce that you were giving me in particular a townread? And you said 'have a townread' That implies that your read on me changed.

b) You just put a dude that you say is probably town to L-1 on page 2 without announcing it.

p-edit: yeah that.

p-edit #2: what the hell.

[skitter30]

Clusk and skitter both avoid the Frogger wagon. Skitter's vote on the Sephiroth wagon seems to me to be a repeat of Lalendra's reasoning, which is odd.

Skitter also takes what seems to me to be an obvious joke in 21 seriously. Skitter, did you think FL wasn't joking?

I just spent like a very frustrating week trying to figure out if Seph was scum in MYLO. It was the most recent game I'd played with anyone here (well, besides Lalendra, who was in that game).

I don't think RVS wagons are inherently interesting or meaningful by themselves. They become interesting when people ascribe meaning to them, like when someone casts a L-1 vote on page 2 without announcing it, or when someone starts attributing motivation to people's interactions with the wagon.

Yes, I knew he wasn't being serious, but the post felt artificial and so I asked him about it so that he would talk about it more.

[skitter30]

I don't think hes trolling but I also don't think there's an acceptable reason to put someone at -1 when you think they're town. Maybe he is a jester, who the fuck knows.

unvote, vote: flavorleaf

I don't think jesters are normal. He likes to do reaction tests as both alignments. I actually don't think it's AI for him.

VOTE: Fro99er

What was the purpose of this vote?

VOTE: Sephiroth

Why the unvote first?

[skitter30]

I don't think RVS wagons are inherently interesting or meaningful by themselves. They become interesting when people ascribe meaning to them, like when someone casts a L-1 vote on page 2 without announcing it, or when someone starts attributing motivation to people's interactions with the wagon.

Really? I find that RVS is often the

best

place to try to catch scum out – they haven't had a chance to fully put their defenses up yet, and with little town content to go off of they'll usually fall back on certain easy to find principles: don't stand out, try to distance yourself from buddies, look for any easy targets to jump on, et cetera.

What's "interesting" about attributing motivation to people's interactions with the wagon?

I'm having trouble articulating this, but I'll try.

Like these sorts of wagons are usually used as a vehicle to get out of RVS. Like they're used to initiate conversation, exactly like you're doing here. We're having this convo now because you found the fact that I stayed off the wagon to be worth probing. To me, the Fro99er wagon now has meaning and has become interesting, because people care enough about it to talk about it.

While it's probably significant that the wagon built on Fro99er in particular, until these convos start happening, I won't be able to understand or see that significance, until people start talking about it and interactions build and conversations happen. I can't see the things you like about RVS wagons until people care enough to start talking about them.

I dunno, I hope that made sense.

p-edit: I can't keep up with you people lol.

[skitter30]

It was a fake hammer – a reaction test. I didn't have anything specific I was looking for in responses, just looking for responses in general. Frogger ruined it, however.

Got it; was wondering what the point of a *second* reaction test along the same vein was

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter

Imo he's just pointing out what the jester wannabe is doing as weird to look good. He's putting 0 pressure on the slot.

a) she

b) He does this sort of thing a lot, and I don't really know how to read him in general. What kind of pressure are you expecting me to exert there?

Just wanted to get off the wagon. Then I found something, saw someone else vote for that player, and just followed suit.

OK, what do you think you found about Seph?

Okay, I think I understand more of what you're saying now. I thought you were saying those things were "interesting" to try to cast shade without actually making a concrete statement. RVS wagons and these early discussions are all just something to take into context when reviewing later in the game, anyways.

Yeah, this basically. Like as it's happening, I don't think it's meaningful by itself, but as these discussions happen and interactions build, it gains significance.

[skitter30]

I don't think hes trolling but I also don't think there's an acceptable reason to put someone at -1 when you think they're town. Maybe he is a jester, who the fuck knows.

unvote, vote: flavorleaf

I got distracted, but I want to follow up on this, especially in context of how Flubber started last game.

So, if you don't think he's trolling, do you think he meant that seriously? Like, do you think scum would *really* do that?

[skitter30]

spoilered cuz I have a tendency to write a lot.

Spoiler: @Seph

Really?

Obviously I'm not convinced that flavor is scum but I think it deserved a vote. L-1 on D1 is scummy, regardless of what is said after the fact, but why y'all acting like I'm sitting here calling flavor confscum?

Is this directed at me? Cuz if so, you're misrepping me; I never said you called him confscum, nor am I acting like you called him that.

I'm asking about your vote because the way you reacted to the L-1 is kinda similar to how you responded to Flubber last game, and I dunno; this feels low-hanging-fruit-y tbh.

Especially with this since you're defending your FL vote, when a lot of interesting things have happened between now and then, but haven't really reacted to like any of them, except for a post Yoshi made about you. It's an easily defendable position for you to take (L-1 on someone you call town is bad!), but I don't see any obvious scum motivation for someone to do that either tbh. I have a feeling we might get into the 'but there isn't town motivation either' thing, and this is kinda why I feel like it's similar to how you reacted to Flubber.

Spoiler: @Stitch

I want actual reads on somebody because you're just talking game theory as a substitute for taking a stance on the current game. With what you know about the meta that's fair but I don't see you actually looking to work out his alignment (scum are more likely to say that they dunno how to read a player without doing anything to solve it).

a) Boon does this sort of thing as town; he gets reads through reactions. Boon does this sort of thing as scum; he likes to emulate his townmeta. He clearly wasn't interested in elaborating (multiple people were talking about the L-1 thing and his only comment on the issue was something along the lines of 'you guys know I'm Boon, right?'), so me asking him repeatedly why he did it isn't really going to be that productive imo and there was a lot happening just then so I decided to focus other things, like responding to comments people had for me

b) I therefore think talking to him about the townreads he's giving out is more interesting and more productive than talking about the L-1, since I don't think the L-1 is particularly AI for him. He hasn't responded to the question I asked him though.

c) I think he'll ultimately get resolved via night actions or via fake-claiming something and getting lynched, so I don't want to focus on him too much right now (ie early day1) anyways. He can kinda take over the gamestate when he does something like this (L-1 or fake-claiming), so I don't want the game to become about *him* to the point where other players start falling through the cracks.

Spoiler: @stitch, pt 2

If you want reads, here's where I am for now:

COA - townlean for now

Fro99er - probably town; having trouble seeing scum reaction-test by faking their own hammer on page 2 and leaving themselves in hammerable-range; I feel like scum have more of a survival instinct

Yoshi- I think he just got flustered when COA was grilling him about his entrance. I don't know if that's AI though; I don't like 59 though because to a certain extent it feels like he was waiting for someone else to vote before he felt comfortable doing it himself; feels a little too hesitant and wary and unconfident.

seph - I'm wary of him because of last game; I don't love his FL vote; I need to talk to him more.

creature - the fact that he hasn't posted yet is worrying for him.

Everyone else hasn't left a strong enough impression on me yet, or I think what they've posted is NAI.

1) more confident in skitter

OK, why?

[skitter30]

I'm around but kinda in middle of a writing a post and I'm like watching this go down in p-edits.

I don't know if I feel good about L-1 on Seph right now.

UNVOTE:

I'll figure this out a little later.

[skitter30]

I think I'm just going to spoil this.

Spoiler:

Putting someone at L-1 early can come from both alignments, it just comes down to how gutsy the voter is rather than individual playstyle.

I was fine with Seph initially but I don't like this flailing.

Just because I’m popular, you all don’t think I’m scummy? What is this madness? Scum is likely defending me somewhere.

I think it's inherently NAI for you. Yes, in a vacuum I think it's scummy, but I can see you doing it on purpose as either alignment, so I don't think it tells me much about your alignment.

Part of my meta? I’d do it as any alignment. It elicits these beautiful reactions.

Right, this is my whole point. It's literally NAI for you, so trying to read alignment into it is kinda pointless.

Unvote

Why the unvote? You were voting Lalendra?

------

I can buy into skitter's reaction to Flavor Leaf now that it's better explained and the reads they have are mostly reasonable (although I'd like to explain what you like about Athena because I'm iffy).

Yeah, I tend to be thinking about 12 billion things at one time, so it doesn't all get into the thread at any given moment, especially not when a page of posts happen in the time it takes me to make one; instead of writing everything that I'm thinking, which could take a while, I'll post a tldr version and elaborate if people ask about it later, or if I just feel like it.

I liked the way CoA is trying to generate content and to pressure people. I'm slightly concerned that she might be scum trying to set the agenda, but given that it's early day1 and her pushes have generated content and discussion, I'm ok with just calling her town for now and reevaluating as the game progresses. I also think that she might be reading too much into Yoshi's 'hi' tbh.

Why are you iffy on her?

-----

Especially when half of them were to say that RVS votes were forced...it's RVS, of course they are. smh

This gives me bad vibes. It feels kinda follow-the-leader-y, like she's just using Transcend's question to throw shade on Creature.

------

I don't really find most things that happen in RVS that interesting or noteworthy. You want me to comment on whether Yoshi saying hi was awkward or not? I find something to push a little and I vote for it. Last game it was flubbers "not me" post and in this game its -1ing on someone you say is town. I guess all y'all know who boon is and that makes it okay for him but I have no clue.

OK, so you think we're still in RVS? I don't know if I would characterize the L-1 to be 'okay' so much as inherently NAI for him in particular. But then, I did this last game, so what do I know?

Being at -2 for no reason is a higher priority

than

attempting to fabricate an opinion that I don't have at this point in the game.

Bolded feels kinda genuine. Italicized feels kinda affected and rhetoric-y. I'm conflicted.

Lalendra's activity doesn't seem AI to me based on the last game I played with her where she did the exact same thing as town.

I don't know if it's AI for her or not, but she did behave rather similarly as town last game. I'm trying to decide if the above is scummy or something she might just say as town.

Different direction? I'm the only one who called him scummy for this and voted him. What do you mean, trying to get me to look at something else? fucking LOL dude read the thread.

I don't like the way you joined my wagon at all. Tentatively over 3 posts coming around to thinking I'm scum only makes sense if theres a strong reason to think I'm scum. This 'oh well I gave him a chance to talk about other stuff' feels very contrived when my decision to defend myself makes perfect sense.

Like why do you think its important to jump on me for not engaging with the game when I've done far more to than either UC Voyager or Lalendra? It seems like youre deciding to join the wagon then finding the reason to scum read me rather than the other way around.

This part feels genuine to me too.

Yeah I'm just going to end this post cuz like three pages happened while I was writing this lol

[skitter30]

Also, can you quote where people dismissed that vote as his meta? No matter who the person is, I wouldn't categorize it as a scum move, and I thought people were just following that train of thought.

Me. I think it's inherently NAI *for him*.

(It was in a spoiler a few pages back, you may have missed it)

I don't know if I can talk about how I'd feel about it in general, because I think someone's likeliness to do so depends on what type of player they are. Me doing that would be bizarre, to say the least. But if it was in a vacuum with someone I don't know at all, I think I'd probably find it at least a little bit scummy.

Someone still scumreads Sephiroth?

Yeah I think after that whole convo I'm agreeing with you now. (I really hope this doesn't come back to bite me lol, so this is with a grain of salt).

[skitter30]

Does no one else find fro99er scummy for asking me to claim for no reason?

Yeah I thought that was pre-mature tbh. I don't know if it's scummy.

A question for everybody

Are you town?

Yes, but I think this is an inherently pointless question because everyone's going to answer it this way.

[skitter30]

Why? He's completely null to me right now.

[skitter30]

OK, going through that again and more slowly:

@skitter - i forgot I naked voted Lalendra for gigs, but it didn’t elicit anything, so I forgot about it, haha.

Were you trying to get a reaction from her or from everyone else? What do you think about her?

(and also because I convinced skitter not to vote me)

Well, I did vote you in the end, but you created enough doubt that I didn't feel strong enough about it to get Serg to vote with me.

Either way, I'm pretty sure you're town here; I now have a baseline for your scumgame, and this game is sufficiently different from that one to make me think you're town. (Namely: post frequency, you're interested in getting discussion going, your posts are more emotional and reactionary instead of rationally dissecting things; you change your stances more frequently and more fluidly. Especially the last two.).

Actually I take it back. Frogger isn't scum necessarily. I misconflated something they said with something yoshi said.

What do you think about Frogger now?

To be honest, I didn't pay attention to most of the game; however, I did leave thinking you were a decent endgame player. Early game I honestly don't know how you did. Either way, one game doesn't define your meta, especially if you're self-aware.

Townpings from this. He's being honest. FL kinda set up that question to imply that he was expecting a townread from him, and Yoshi just answered it directly with what he really felt instead of answering it the way FL seemed to have wanted.

Also, Creature’s likely town. I like his fluff posts, and see them as himetting people know he’s here, and he’s trying to figure things out, but isn’t sure where to go yet, rather than him just not playing, if that makes sense.

This feels fabricated.

Why? He's completely null to me right now.

read page 6 as me knowing I know I'm town

Ok, I see where you're coming from.

I'm tending to thinking that you're town here. (Namely: for fake-hammering yourself at L-1 and keeping yourself within hammer range on page 2; I feel like scum are less likely to keep themselves in a position where it would be easy for them to get lynched there; the strength of your screen read; makes sense that you feel that strongly about him in that context).

[skitter30]

Lots of people did lots of incredibly stupid things that game (vigging a universal townread when there was strong evidence there may be an SK, lying about thier role, quickvoting in MYLO, lying through massclaim, lying about their role when they claimed the day after massclaim in a way that directly affected town's chances of winning the game), so getting frustrated each time someone does something stupid (self-voting, throwing out L-1 on page 2) appears to be a waste of my energy because I'd be spending waaaay too much time annoyed at people.

viewtopic.php?p=9829013#p9829013 - I decided to stop getting annoyed here when people do stupid shit because people do irrational things a lot and it's silly getting annoyed at all of them.

I don't really know what you think I'd be paranoid about here (I also don't think I was paranoid early last game. Endgame, yes. Early game, not really.)

Going off of last game, I'm pretty sure Seph is just town here. I don't especially care if you don't like the townread, but I feel most confident in this right now. His game is sufficiently different from last game that I don't think he's scum; I don't think he changed his scumgame this much in four days.

I don't understand what you're saying about UCV. Why do you think I know he's town there?

For FL, I never thought it was serious, I didn't really get why he was bringing it up in the first place, which is why I was asking him about it. There is someone on site who literally reads me like that ('she's been scum in all of my games with her so she's scum here too', for three games in a row, and I couldn't talk him out no matter what I did), but I don't exactly expect that from FL. However, it was an interesting enough statement that it was worth probing, because I'm still not sure why he felt the need to announce that he was giving me a townread at that juncture. The logic he gave wasn't really what was bothering me and I didn't take it seriously; it was the fact that he bothered to announce he was giving me a townread at all, and if it was genuine, I wanted to know what it was really based on given that the reason he gave was obviously bs.

And yes, I knew it was a second fake-hammer, which is why I asked her about it, (Again, note that it was a very general question). Namely, I understand the point of the fake-hammer - to get reactions - and that's why I didn't ask you about it once I remembered you were on the wagon (At first I thought you self-hammered and I was confused as fuck till I went back to the vc). I didn't really get the point of someone doing it *a second* time, but once she answered I realized that there was only like a five-minute difference between yours and hers, and that you had gotten to doing it first before she decided not to do it.

COA had commented about me not joining your wagon, so I explained why.

I think that's everything, but I gotta go nowish for like a day (I'm Orthodox Jewish and a Sabbath observer), but we can talk about all of that
more when I get back tomorrow night.

p-edit: @FL It felt fabricated. Yes, I've played with you as scum and I know you BS'd stuff (that's what I meant by fabricated). It feels fake. I don't know if it's scummy (which is why I didn't call it that) for you given that you often BS things, but it still feels fake.

[skitter30]

Eh, I want to respond to that, but I gotta go IRL. I can pick this up tom night.

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?p=9522015#p9522015

Look at 382/383, and hell, just look at her iso. She does do these quote wall things as scum, and pretty similarly as she is here. She even interacts with scum partners a good amount.

I’m using this to anyone who would think she’s town for those posts specifically moreso than to say she does that as scum.

This is beyond NAI for me, and I literally point this out to people each game. I usually get townread for this, but this is an awful reason to townread me, and I tell people that. It's an awful reason to scumread me too, cuz yeah, you're right, I can fake these sorts of posts without *that* much difficulty. It's NAI. The number of posts I make is a much better scumtell for me; if it looks like I'm lurking and I go like a day without posting, I'm probably scum. It's really that simple for me. (Not posting cuz I'm v/la over the weekend doesn't count and isn't AI).

If we're quoting things from last game:

viewtopic.php?p=9756594#p9756594

I"m not really sure why you've made this post in the first place given that you don't think it's AI, and I don't believe anyone else said they thought it was AI either; I'm not really sure who your audience is.

To be quite honest, this post actually feels broadly discredit-y, given that you're framing my posting style as something scummy when you and I both know that it's NAI. I know that you ended up saying that you *don't* scumread me for it, but the fact that you're bringing it up here is kinda weird given that *nobody* has mentioned this as AI in the first place.

Why would I have to fabricate reads? I believe I even gave you my thoughts on how scum should Justin look for mistakes town players make, and see that as scum, so even if I was scum I wouldn’t have to fabricate anything.

a) I didn't say, nor did I imply, that you *had* to fabricate reads. I have, however, witnessed you making stuff up to get people lynched (Eddie in 1931 during the PR clusterfuck; you kept on going on and on about perspective slips he was making which was obviously false given that he was town and you knew that he was town). It still feels fake. I don't know why you'd do that, but it doesn't feel genuine to me.

b) You agree with me that you make stuff up - 'I have a degree in BS'ing' from 271 - so I don't really understand what you have a problem with in the first place, or what this convo is even about tbh.

c)Yeah, I remember that convo; you exploit mistakes to scumread people and get them lynched. I'm not sure why this is particularly relevant to the topic at hand given that I'm not talking about scumreads, but rather a townread you gave Creature. Like I get what you're saying about *scumreads* and why you feel you don't need to fake them, but I don't get what this has to do with what I'm talking about or townreads at all.

d) I also don't get why you're taking this convo as like a personal assault on your meta, or why you're voting me for this.

[skitter30]

Stitch is manipulative and scummy, Skitter is obvious scum through meta, Transcend is obvious scum through meta.

K, now that I know you're Mulch, this is bullshit. I don't think you know how to read me properly. You especially clearly don't know how to townread me. I don't remotely understand why you're so confident on this, given that you know *exactly* how I respond to pressure as scum - I panic lurk. I don't understand why you're calling me scum here on meta before I had a chance to react ffs.

I don't understand the Stitch read (specifically the manipulative part), or the Transcend read.

Up to page 8:

Town: Sephiroth, CultofAthena, Fr0gger

Lean town: BigYoshiFan, Screenplay, Flavor Leaf

Null: Transcend, Creature, Lalendra, UC Voyager

Lean Scum: Skitter30, Stitch

My reads right now:

Town: Sephiroth, CultOfAthena, Fro99er
Lean town: Flavor Leaf, Screenplay, Creature
Null: BigYoshiFan, Lelandra, UC Voyager
Lean scum: Stitch, Transcend, Skitter30

Your reads are largely static between page 8 and now. You swapped Yoshi and Creature, and dropped Transcend, but they haven't really changed. You're calling out other people on this (Yoshi), but you're kinda doing it yourself.

However, I've seen town and scum alike take on this style, and I've been burned too many times in the past from scumread people for irrelevant questions. I don't think this should be taken into consideration

Dude, you're basically calling me scum for this right now.

Their vote on Seph came very early in the game, and they have vote parked them all game. I personally think Seph is extremely towny (and will go into this later), but the fact that they are so hesitant to change their vote (lack of read fluidity) as well as the fact I think their vote is on a townsperson pings scum to me.

I don't really think it's something that I would push Seph on personally, because I think it's just a misunderstanding, but it's a towny reaction.

All of this reads like to me like you're trying to pocket Seph tbh.
-------

I'll explore skitter and the meta-case a bit later. I usually just skip over meta cases of that depth, but if it's supposedly good I'll take a looksy. One thing that stood out is that in 274 he claims Sephiroth as her strongest TR for his play in general, but voted Sephiroth in RVS and parked until post 163. Not something I find particularly scummy, but I want to know why she kept her vote for so long if Sephiroth's play in general read as town.

a) I don't move my vote a lot

b) I'm pretty sure he's town *because* of the convo (the one with Frogger and the L-1 and asking to claim) he was having at the time I unvoted him. I wasn't sure until then. That convo was lightyears different from like anything that happened in 1963 (like the sheer emotion/carefreeness in his posts just didn't exist in 1963. He changes his mind, his votes change, his stances change fluidly, he's a lot more casual. He's playing the game with feels and gut instead of rationally dissecting everything). That's why I unvoted when I did and not earlier, because the convo that was happening *then* is what convinced me.

I literally *just* spent a week trying to read him and figure out if 1963 was his scumgame. I now know *exactly* what his scumgame looks like. This isn't it.

[skitter30]

I'm here:

{Frogger, Seph}
{Yoshi}
{COA}
{Transcend, Creature, Screen, UCV} - null/ don't know how to read.
{Lalendra, FL} - scummier side of null, but closer to null than scummy
{Stitch}
{Mulch}

-------

-Frogger - Still don't think scum react that way to being put at L-1 on page 2. His case on me is good and well-reasoned, although wrong.

- Seph - this isn't his scumgame, which I think I explained elsewhere. More fluidity, casualness, and emotions than 1963, which was a lot more rigid and methodological and manufactured.

- Yoshi - I also think I explained this elsewhere, but he's ridiculously transparent and just ... guileless is a good word. He's stating things exactly how he sees them.

- COA - I like her posting style and the questions that she's asking, and the follow-through she's exhibiting. I can understand her thought process.

- Srceen - I dunno, I'm just kinda meh on everything he posted. I don't think most of it is AI or unfakeable for scum. Just null to me right now.

- Transcend - Hasn't given me enough content to generate a read; most of his posts are fluff. Not sure why you're townreading either Clusk or Creature (although I find the reaction to Mulch in 401 to be a surprisingly rational way of dealing with him).

-UCV - hasn't given me enough content to generate a read, but his behavior here is reminding me a lot of 1954 tbh, so it isn't surprisng. It's annoying because I had to prod him for content like every two days, but I've seen him do this before, so I'm not going to call him scummy for it.

- Creature - hasn't given me enough content to genreate a read. I don't especially like that he isn't explaining like any of his positions.

- Lalendra - Given 1963, she might just have a scummy posting style. I was getting gutown vibes from 110 from just how .... clueless she was, and read her the same way in 1963 tbh. Her Creature post kinda negated that though, and so now she's somewhere between null and nullscum. Don't like the lack of content.

- FL - no idea how to read him tbh. I really don't like his vote on me, given that it's apparently built on the idea that I ought to know that he doesn't fake things as scum, which is ridiculous given that a) I wasn't calling him scum for that and b)he agrees with me that he BS's all the time, so I don't know what he's taking offense to exactly. I think the reaction was rather over the top. I really don't like how he brought up my posting style and framed it as something I do as scum when he admits in the same post that it's NAI.

-Stitch - I don't like either the Seph or COA votes, as both are kinda bandwagon-y and thinly reasoned. I dislike the fact that after he came back after 10 pages he mainly just continued his argument with one person. His early townread of Yoshi gives me bad vibes but I don't know how to articulate them right now. I don't know why he classified UCV as 'a good lynch' in this gamestate (and why not Lalendra, say?)

- Mulch - I had no opinion on Clusk. Also have no idea how to read Mulch, but a lot of his posts feel kinda manufactured too tbh, and they're reminding me a lot of 1946. He said he was doing that to prove some point, so that might explain the manufacturedness, but it continued even after he dropped the alt. Also most of his positions match thread consensus, and are overly defended. He's being a lot more *thorough* and explain-y than I've seen him in any of his towngames, but I have seen him do this in scumgames (1946). His read on Seph (and to a certain extent Frogger and COA), sounds kinda pocket-y tbh. Reads are static (he has basically the same reads when he was up to page 8 and after he finished his catchup). He's scumreading me on meta when he *knows* how I react to being pressured as scum and this isn't it. (tbf, I hadn't posted in the last day, and I panic-lurk as scum but I quite clearly remember having a convo with him about how I'm v/la on weekends).

VOTE: Mulch

[skitter30]

He's pissing me off and knows how to read me better than this.

[skitter30]

If you really want to do this, go for it.

You're townreading Seph, Frogger, COA, all of whom are widely townread. Stitch is generally scumread, as am I. I have no idea what you're thinking on Transcend, given that you didn't explain that.

I acknowledged the fact that it might be because of an alt. It reads manufactured and I can point to posts in 1946 that sound extremely similar.

You're ignoring the part where I think you're pocketing people or that I'm calling you out on having the same reads on page 8 as basically after your catchup.

Your meta tell is bullshit. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73947&user_select[]=29653 ctrl + f for 'like', it only comes up about 381 times. I literally rewrote posts last game for starting every sentance with 'like'.

Here's one random post where I did it five times: viewtopic.php?p=9841829#p9841829

Your meta case in general is bullshit given that I'm pretty damn sure you know how to read me better than this.

[skitter30]

I don't see how that's a lie. Most people were townreading them. A few people weren't, but if you actually look at people's reads, most people were townreading the two of them.

Same with Stitch (except scumreads, not townreads obviously).

Like number of votes != how town/scumread someone is ffs.

It reads manufactured and I can point to posts in 1946 that sound extremely similar.

And what do you think is manufactured about it?

Point to specifics, you can't

Waxing rhapsodic about Seph, overly explaining a scumread on me, the four trillion words you wrote to explain a scumread. I can pull up similar posts from 1946, but I'm going to need a minute.

I didn't want to out this, but every scum game Skitter uses *like* about a fuckton times per game, and as town they don't use qualitative langauge at all. It sucks that I have to give up this meta tell, but I'm too pissed not to bury you right now

Dude, you literally just said that me using 'like' is a scumtelll. It isn't, not even remotely.

TBh, the speed at which you responded to me (you usually spend time making posts) makes me think you could be town, but It's hard to get past you actually saying lies

Dude, this is my fucking point and the fact that you were scumreading me on meta beofre you had a chance to actually fucking interact with me is pissing me off to no end.

I literally can't fake this.

[skitter30]

Like number of votes != how town/scumread someone is ffs.

People can have more than one town/scumread.

Say people have three scumreads. They can't be voting all of them at the same time. Therefore, they may be scumreading someone even if they aren't voting them. A number of people were scumreading Stitch. The votes weren't on them. That doesn't mean that they aren't scumread.

I didn't go back and count the number of votes Seph/COA had when you replaced in, but several people who weren't voting them said they were townreading both of them.

Dude, this is my fucking point and the fact that you were scumreading me on meta beofre you had a chance to actually fucking interact with me is pissing me off to no end.

I literally can't fake this.

I kind of believe you

But

I'm not unvoting you until you admit you lied, even if your town

I didn't lie. I don't lie, and I don't lie to make cases. (Dude, you know this. I can't fake things). I don't care if you unvote me or not. Your read on me is bullshit. Your meta tell on me is bullshit and provably wrong.

[skitter30]

Ok then I'm policy lynching you. I don't think your scum anymore but if I was scum I would destroy you in this arguement just because you are so off. So I'm going to keep voting you to prove that my case is righter than yours

Yeah I'm pretty sure you know I'm town here because

I don't fucking react to pressure this way as scum and you know that

Your case is wrong. I'm pretty damn sure you know it's wrong. That's why you're backpedaling here, because this is literally never how I react to pressure as scum ffs and you know that. And I'm ridiculously pissed at you for pushing this idiotic line of reasoning when you should know how to read me.

Keeping your vote on me because you think my reasoning is wrong is idiotic, and yeah, a policy lynch, especially if you think I"m town. Like seriously? You can't accept that your read was wrong ('my case is righter than yours') so you're going to push me as a policy-lynch?

Like you're seriously voting me to prove that your case was right when you think you're wrong.

What the hell?

P-edit: I don't buy the AtE

[skitter30]

So, you're just dropping the push/meta/policy-lynch on me? What the hell?

And why are you now pushing transcend?

[skitter30]

Trying to push me as obvious scum on meta before you had a chance to talk with me was really, really stupid, given that you know a *real* tell for me, and not the 'like' one you tried pushing which is ridiculous: I panic-lurk as scum, especially under pressure. If I'm interacting in real-time (especially under pressure) I'm like never scum. If it looks like I'm lurking, I'm scum. If I post just before the prod-timer, I'm scum. You know this, and I'm having a really, really hard time believing that *you* bought the meta case Frogger was pushing.

I still don't get what you're seeing in Transcend.

[skitter30]

Fine, I'll drop it, but I think your push on me was fake as fuck given that you actually know how to read me properly.

And I can't take an explanation of 'I know how to read Transcend' as being remotely credible given the argument we just had.

[skitter30]

Yeah, I said I didn't know how to read you. I'm pretty good at recognizing when people are bullshitting reads on me though.

[skitter30]

Because I don't think I know how to read you means that I shouldn't try? And I should ignore you when you're saying things about me that are stupid?

That was also the *only* game I had to try to read you, given that I was scum in all the others we played together, and me reading you wrong wasn't exactly the reason I lost the game. (I mean, in a certain sense, it contributed to the loss because you were mislynched, but that's not the cause of the loss).

[skitter30]

Mulch, why do I feel like you're trying to turn the topic of discussion away from the fact that you're being scumread and instead into one of:

a) the fact that you're taking the moral high-ground

b) that towns do better on MU

c) that town would have won 1963 if you hadn't been mislynched.

[skitter30]

This game is no longer fun

I apologize for contributing to that. I think I'm going to stop posting now for a bit because I don't like how upset I got and I think I need to take a breather.

Mulch, I apologize for getting angry with you. I still think you're faking a read on me, but I should not have gotten that annoyed at you, nor should I have taken it personally. I apologize.

Trying to push me as obvious scum on meta before you had a chance to talk with me was really, really stupid, given that you know a *real* tell for me, and not the 'like' one you tried pushing which is ridiculous: I panic-lurk as scum, especially under pressure. If I'm interacting in real-time (especially under pressure) I'm like never scum. If it looks like I'm lurking, I'm scum. If I post just before the prod-timer, I'm scum. You know this, and I'm having a really, really hard time believing that *you* bought the meta case Frogger was pushing.

I still don't get what you're seeing in Transcend.

I really hate when people talk about their own meta with such self-awareness. If you're so aware, you'd take every measure to avoid doing it again.

I know that this is my main tell. I don't know how to fix it. I panic-lurk as scum under pressure and hate doing it but I have a ridiculously difficult time posting as scum in general and this holds even moreso when I'm under any sort of pressure.

I panic-lurk. I don't know how to not panic-lurk.

[skitter30]

Okay, but if you are scum and this is such an obvious and prominent tell, you're not going to continue to do it. Right? I don't know, a lot of people do this kind of self-aware meta thing. Maybe I haven't played enough games to understand it.

I mean .... I say I'm not going to do that before every scumgame but I end up doing it anyways. Every single time.

It's not something I can change on a dime just because I'm aware of it and just because I want to (if I could, I wouldn't get called out for lurking like every single scumgame I'm in, given that I've known that this is a thing since pretty much my first scumgame ever).

But I get why you don't like self-meta regardless. I only brought it up because of the meta scumreads I was getting that I felt were largely baseless.

[skitter30]

Tbh I've been avoiding this thread because reading emotions suck and now I have to go to work in like 30 minutes. Fuck everything.

Seph is rage tier, unsure if town or scum caught for wrong reasons but leaning slightly towards the former, need to see how they play with less pressure on the slot
I don't think Mulch pulls "i'm better than you fuck you all" as maf, it seems like a really shitty thing to do
Flavor Leaf isn't doing anything at all and is getting away with it
Skitters is still town especially with recent reactions
Wary of Srceenplay, feels like they were intentionally sticking to the sideline in the whole Mulch debacle
Something about Yoshi's responses to it bothers me too but I need to look again

Sorry :/

This is something Mulch can and does do as scum, unfortunately. As town he self-destructs. As scum he freaks out. It's kinda hard to tell the difference though. I'm tending to thinking that this is scum!Mulch though, because of how much he freaked out when he had the one vote on him, which is more of a scumtell for him in my experience; he tends to be more chillaxed when he has a vote or two on him as town, and freaks out when he's close to getting mislynched (referencing 1940, 1931, and 1946. First two are town!mulch games, last is scum!mulch).

I also hate like all of his posts and I'm pretty sure his initial read on me was faked.

What's bothering you about Yoshi?

This is classic townMulch,

I disagree. It's tending more to scum!mulch to me tbh.

I also dislike how casually he gave you a 'Boon is probably town' read given that the last I was in a game with both of you and town!mulch, he was extremely paranoid of you.

mulch pulls off a bunch of shitty things as scum my dude

but clusk was town so no need to read him

Why was Clusk town? Why are you no longer strongly townreading screen? Who do you think is/was scum on the Mulch wagon?

Because mulch's pred was town and he is an absolute whackjob as town

He does this sort of thing as scum too, so how do you tell the difference?

It wasn't because your posts were anything great, because by God they were awful. So how do you think I Was able to correctly identify you as strong town?

If it was based on meta from last game, why on earth did you write a multi-paragraph novel explaning your read on him? That's what I was saying - it felt fake and overly explained and forced.

If he's just town on meta, why didn't you just say that instead of writing that? I get you were on an alt, but why didn't you just say something like 'I read his last game and he seems town on meta'. You didn't have to say *you were in* his last game and out the alt to make that argument. Frogger was making a meta case on me without being in that game.

[skitter30]

It's not everyones fault that you can't see the difference

As of right now I think you're scummy. If I'm misreading you and someone like transcend can read you better, I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong so that I can move on to someone else. Right now, from my experience, you're acting more like scum!mulch than town!mulch. If other people think I'm wrong, I'm more than happy to have them explain it.

HOW THE FUCK WAS I SUPPOSED TO MENTION META WHEN I WAS ON AN ALT

STOP TUNNELING AND USE YOUR BRAINS

The same way Frogger did - 'I looked at that other game and he's acting different'. I don't know why saying that is scummy.

[skitter30]

I've only had to try to read you in the one game, and you were playing incredibly differently from both your town *and* your scum meta in that game, which I noted and acknowledged there. But I've been with you in like four other games. Yes, I was scum in those four games, but I've personally exploited the Mulch-self-destructs-as-town thing to get you mislynched at least twice, so I know what to look for. I'm not getting that vibe right now. I am seeing a lot of similarities to 1946, however.

Again, if someone wants to explain where I'm going wrong, I'm all ears.

Spoiler:

viewtopic.php?p=9589537#p9589537 - same over-explainy stuff

viewtopic.php?p=9591728#p9591728 - first time a townie voted you

viewtopic.php?p=9594616#p9594616 - over-explain-y

viewtopic.php?p=9594660#p9594660 - over-explain-y

viewtopic.php?p=9629033#p9629033 - over-reaction-y ATE

viewtopic.php?p=9657529#p9657529 - when you were getting seriously wagoned

viewtopic.php?p=9657556#p9657556 - self-vote over-reaction-y ATE when you were getting wagoned

viewtopic.php?p=9657598#p9657598 - over-reaction-y ATE after you got hammered

You sound similar to these, and I can pull up more ^^^

(Holy shit why is your ISO so long???)

[skitter30]

Saw the Skitter post, and he was townMulch yes, but I wasn’t town there. He was right I’m in his paranoia.

TownMulch and TownBoon generally figure out we’re town both pretty early, but then it’s with caution, but Mulch and I on the same page is better than us having to deal with each other.

This literally means nothing to me given that I'm scumreading mulch and am nullscum on you.

For all I know you're scumpartners vouching for each other. I don't trust either of you anywhere near enough to trust a read you have on someone else.

Hmm, that’s a really good post by Skitter.

Mulch, you have to at least accept that regardless of alignment, this is likely the best Skitter has been.

Okay, I’m going to start reading the middle posts I skipped. I’ve been just reading the most current page since I thought I wouldn’t have much time, but I’m hyper alert because of Mulch potential self destruct can happen anytime.

Bolded reads incredibly fake too

[skitter30]

Hmm, that’s a really good post by Skitter.

By good do you mean town-smelling or convincing? What if anything does the post do for your mulch read?

I mean, good play. If he’s scum, and Mulch town, then that’s a fantastic post by Skitter. If Skitter is town, and Mulch is town, Skitter feels he has legitimate reason to push Mulch. If Mulch is scum, and Skitter is town, damn, Skitter caught you good. If they’re both scum, then their theatre is great. I don’t agree with a lot of skitter’s posts necessarily, but some people definitely will, and in Mafia, you don’t need everyone to agree with you.

A) she

B) this post is sooo incredibly fence-sitty and non-committal, given that you accounted for how your statement could be read no matter the alignments of me/mulch.

[skitter30]

Agreed. It feels like he's trying to avoid giving a hard answer.

[skitter30]

I thought 425 was pretty incriminating.

OK, why?

How is it non commital at all? I feel it’s blatantly clear where I stand considering where my vote is and the fact I’ve literally been saying this is townMulch.

I’m just saying it’s a good post no matter what scenario.

Because I felt like you were basically saying that no matter my alignment it was a good post. I also still think the way you worded it felt incredibly fake.

skitter you too, let's all vote stitch

Don't especially want to right now. I'm pretty sure I'm voting scum.

[skitter30]

Don't especially want to right now. I'm pretty sure I'm voting scum.

Why tunnel when you can wagon instead? There's plenty of day remaining.

Eh, you're right. Mulch is still scum, but I can help wagon people.

VOTE: Stitch

My vote's going back on him later though.

Sorry :/

I think I'm still kinda riled up at/by Mulch, and I think I'm overreacting to stuff right now. You're completely right; it's just a game and I'm taking it a bit too seriously and personally just now. I do appreciate the compliment.

[skitter30]

@Skitter - you still think Mulch is scum, and you’re wagoning one of the first players who started pushing Stitch?

I kinda think I need to take a step back from Mulch, and look at him objectively again like tomorrow (IRL) or something.

Right now I think he's scum for faking a read on me, and for having made several posts that I think are rather bad.

Don't especially want to right now. I'm pretty sure I'm voting scum.

Why tunnel when you can wagon instead? There's plenty of day remaining.

This, however, made me realize that there's a probably a not-insignificant chance I'm tunneled on him and think he's scum cuz I'm annoyed at him, and has made me realize that I can't look at him objectively right now. I should probably re-evluate him, but it's not something I can do just yet. So for now I think I'm just going to look elsewhere until I can re-evaluate. I do think Stitch is scummy as well, and am willing to wagon him.

I'm fully aware that Mulch is/was pushing him. Mulch, however, has pushed and/or voted quite a few people since he replaced in, so I don't know if that's terribly significant; I've also seen him distance with partners this way (Serg, 1946). Since I'm also making a conscious decision to step back from Mulch for now, I've decided that I don't especially care atm that he was pushing Stitch. Once I eventually re-evaluate Mulch, I'll decide if this piece of info is relevant or significant.

[skitter30]

I don't think that's actually an AI post.

Town:

viewtopic.php?p=9682355#p9682355

viewtopic.php?p=9525579#p9525579

Scum:
viewtopic.php?p=9532079#p9532079

viewtopic.php?p=9592594#p9592594

[skitter30]

I guess I can kinda see what you mean about Yoshi, that he's giving alternate conclusions, but I don't really think he's doing that in order to leave himself an out. I think he's just saying exactly what he thinks. He just seems super transparent to me.

I don't really have a problem with his Mulch vote. What do you think about Mulch?

I'm not entirely sure why FL is scumreading me either tbh.

It's weird, that I play this game about communicating with others yet always feel nervous about sharing my thoughts.

I think you're doing a fine job communicating

[skitter30]

@UCV: Probability *reeeeeeally* doesn't work like that.

I think Lalendra has a scummy posting style, but idk, I kinda like her last post.

I don't like that stitch came back to a wagon and didn't even bother to comment.

Especially this part.

I'm actually getting very similar vibes to 1963 tbh.

[skitter30]

Eh, you put it in real words. I was just going to facepalm and link the wiki article on the law of large numbers, but I decided that would probably not be super helpful lol

[skitter30]

The odds of two coins flipped sequentially both being heads is .25, but each coin flip still has a .5 chance of being heads.

The odds of 4 3-sided dice all rolling 1 is (1/3)^4, but that doesn't change the fact that if you roll the die again, there's still a 1/3 chance of rolling a 1 that last time.

The fact that he was scum in previous games is literally completely irrelevant to his odds of being scum here since it's randomized each time, and role distribution of game 1980 is independent of role distribution of game 1972 or whatever game.

I get what you're saying, but I'm trying to explain to you that you're thinking about it wrong.

[skitter30]

I appreciate you, skitter.

[skitter30]

I've only played with him the once, in 1954, and he played remarkably similarly to here - largely uninterested and popping in once in a while to make some vague, unrelated comment. Was VT. So I've seen him play like this before. I definitely want him resolved (lynch, cop check, vig shot, etc) before LYLO though.

I want to move back on Mulch. Given 1946, his initial read on me was prematurely confident if I'm feeling charitable, faked if I'm not. I pointed out that it was baseless and that he knows how to read me better. He doubled down, and continued to push for my lynch even after he and I both knew he knew I was town. And then he freaked out in a way remarkably similarly to how I saw him react to pressure in 1946.

VOTE: Mulch

I wasn't particularly impressed with how Stitch reacted to being wagoned either; he just kinda ignored it. I feel more confident on scum!Mulch though; I might switch back to Stitch later.

I also feel like the gamestate is stagnating, which kinda indicates to me that scum might be complacent with it.

Also, can someone explain town!creature? I have him as hard null, but the less he does stuff, the more I want to drop him to scumlean.

[skitter30]

I kinda attributed your lack of activity last week to Christmas lol, which is why I didn't find it *that* odd that you weren't around just before deadline, but, well you know how that turned out lol.

Idk; I don't do New Year's, but that's a fair enough explanation lol.

I don't especially think Creature is a good lynch today, but he's kinda in that same group as Lalendra/UCV for me: Want them resolved somehow before LYLO.

[skitter30]

Who are you into lynching today? Who are you hardline not into lynching today?

Me?

I want Mulch. I'd be OK with Stitch, and I would probably compromise on one of {UCV/Lalendra/Creature} at deadline. I don't necessarily scumread any of them right now (they're all like some shade of null), but I do want them resolved at some point, and if we're deadlocked at deadline, I'd be OK with resolving one of them then. FL is tending kinda scummy to me too, but I don't think he's ever a lynch candidate today lol.

I am absolutely not lynching you/frogger/yoshi, probably not CoA either (although I don't like that she hasn't posted in like half a week).

[skitter30]

I'm going to the lurker group because I wanted to enjoy some rest?

You aren't exactly in a lurker group so much as if you continue posting the way you've been posting thus far, I don't think I'm ever going be able to get a good read on you, and I'd therefore want to get you resolved somehow before LYLO.

Like it's not exactly a lurker group, but more of a 'I don't really feel confident reading any of these people right now and I feel like I'm going to be questioning their alignment all game' group.

[skitter30]

I'm pretty bad at scumhunting D1 and the game is stagnating so this is where I'm at rn:

Town pile

: Creature FL YoshiFan Srcreenplay

Lurker pile

: COA UCV Lalendra

Scumlean pile

: Skitter Mulch

Scummy pile:

Stitch Transcend Fro99er

I think you're town but I don't understand like any of this. Or more accurately, one of the reasons I think you're town is *because* I don't understand like any of this lol.

Can you explain Creature, FL, Screen, Transcend?

@Transcend: So ... is this miller claim serious, or something you did for the lolz?

@Mulch: I don't understand like any of your votes. What's wrong with Screen's question?

Spoiler: also @mulch

Usually have snark as town

You have no snark

Therefore you are scum

OMG IM GOING TO EXPLODE

If someone calls this fake I'm vote parking them for the rest of the game

OMG IM GOING TO EXPLODE

Fake

Like this wasn't snark to you?

[skitter30]

I feel less good about srceen than when I made that post but meh.

I actually feel better about srceen since you posted that; I liked his interaction with yoshi.

This was kinda hard to read, but I think it's the best post you've made all game.

- I feel like the game stagnated with the stitch wagon, and yeah I don't super like the vanity wagons

- Can you explain why you think CoA is obvscum?

- Why do you think two of the wagons are on scum?

You hardly explained them at all. You can't elaborate your reads any further than that? I'm perfectly fine with gut reads, and I pay them respect when used in moderation because sometimes that's all I can use to explain a read of my own, but this just sounds non-committal and frankly scummy. You don't have to decide between two different ways of reading players, employ them both and use it to come to a general read.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73947&user_select[]=7927

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=73948&user_select[]=7927

If Seph's scum here I'd be shocked; he'd have to have drastically changed his scumgame in like four days.

p-edit: same for FL

[skitter30]

So you're claiming neighbors with Mulch?

[skitter30]

Yeah, I got that. I"m asking you to confirm whether or not Mulch is the neighbor of which you speak, cuz if yes, I'd kinda want you to explain why you're hard-townreading him.

(I mean, I want you to explain why you're townreading Mulch regardless, but you said you'd explain the hard-townread on your neighbor once they outed, so I'm trying to find out if that is indeed your neighbor so that you can explain the read).

[skitter30]

Eh, I kinda like this post tbh. I don't really feel like scum!Stitch decides to start a thing on FL here; there's about 8 easier targets. And agree on like all the FL points.

@mod can you prod COA? It's been like 4 days since they posted

According to the OP, people get replaced if they don't post within 2 days of getting prodded, which should make her replace-eligible in about three hours from now iirc correctly.

despite Skitter posting it several times.

viewtopic.php?p=9783627#p9783627

scum-readslist ^^^^

Made a ridiculous amount of sense in that gamestate, to the point that I basically got pocketed for it and didn't notice the (minor) holes in it until like three weeks later when he got into a 1v1 with someone else. No real-time interaction like this.

I'm pretty bad at scumhunting D1 and the game is stagnating so this is where I'm at rn:

Town pile

: Creature FL YoshiFan Srcreenplay

Lurker pile

: COA UCV Lalendra

Scumlean pile

: Skitter Mulch

Scummy pile:

Stitch Transcend Fro99er

No idea what he's thinking here.

I don't think this is his scumgame. I don't know if I can explain it better than this.

And yeah I agree with Seph. She kinda acts like this as town. No, I've never played with scum!lalendra, so I don't know if she acts differently as scum, but she has acted similarly as town.

Frogger, like even the thing you're calling her out for ('Lalendra says Frogger is town but then votes him), I've seen her do as town:

viewtopic.php?p=9787917#p9787917

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think these things are necessarily scumtells for her.

I was waffling on Mulch/FL but I am inclined to believe the neighbor claim. My first thought was that it could be scum using neighbor as a way out but I don't think FL would have come right out and said he just won a scum game with a fake neighbor claim if that was his gambit here (unless he felt someone would check his meta and pre-empted it by doing that, which is WIFOM but would still make the claim risky).

FWIW, I explicitly do not believe the neighbor claim as stated. Namely, FL might be a neighbor, but I don't think Mulch is his neighbor if he actually is. Also, I can totally see scum!him faking a neighborhood and lampshading that he just did it in another scum game. And UCV was just in that game, so he might just be pre-empting UCV calling bullshit on this tbh.

Also that creature point is laughably bad.

She had an argument with Seph in 1963 where she seriously held the position that Seph was scummy because he had more than three scumreads on day 1, and everyone knows that if you have three scumreads, they must be a team together, so having more than three scumreads means that he thinks that there's more than three scum, and everyone knows that mini normals are 10:3, so Seph is scum because he has more scumreads than are possible.

And then the next day she had more than three scumreads, didn't see the problem with it given the argument she had the day before, forgot about her major scumread in her opening day readslist (which hadn't changed or anything; she just actually forgot about him), and Seph got her lynched for it ... so, given that context, I find Seph's position to be rather reasonable, and although I don't think she's making that much sense, I don't think that's a scumtell for her. Like I think she actually might be this clueless/disengaged.

It's not that she can't do this as scum so much as I've seen her post like this as town.

[skitter30]

But maybe they're all just town and have these strong meta reads of each other.

like, all my reads are colored by meta. Seph isn't scum here on meta. I don't know how to explain this better. I have no idea what alignment Lalendra is. I don't especially think I can read her. I don't know if she's town. I don't know if she's scum. I do know that I literally *just* saw her get mislynched for acting this way.

Of course you are, you’re people pleasing again. But like I said, I’m in the midst of doing a Last Night Tomorrow right now.

Can you like explain this? I still don't get it. Like ... who exactly are the people you think he's trying to please?

[skitter30]

No, I can understand the people-pleasing thing wrt to the fact that you've been wagon-hopping. But that's not what he's accusing you of:

And your reads list was people pleasing as hell. Nobody should be town reading me right now. I’m intentionally playing in a way so people won’t be town reading me as of right now.

I don't understand why FL's characterizing your townread on him as being 'people-pleasing', given that I don't exactly see a specific audience that you'd be trying to please/appease/agree with by giving that read. I mean, other than himself, but a) I don't know why he thinks you'd be doing that there and b) this is long a really weird round-about way of accusing you of trying to pocket him.

[skitter30]

skitter, why aren’t you pushing Mulch harder if you think they are scum? Or at least finding another wagon that’s bigger that you agree with.

The vote parking while not pushing mulch but sitting there defending others’ as town per meta is :/

Kinda trying to avoid turning the thread into another ragefest ....

I don't especially like the other wagons right now:

- I actually kinda liked Stitch's recent posts, and two of my biggest scumreads are pushing it, which kinda makes me wary of joining it.

- Still think yoshi's town

- I think the cases on Lalendra are unconvincing. Like I'll vote here at deadline, but I don't think she's scummy right now given that I saw her behaving like this recently as town

- I'm voting Mulch

- I'm obviously not voting myself

- I've asked transcend multiple times why he thinks COA is scummy; he's never answered and I still don't get it

- I think you're town

- Similar feelings on UCV as Lalendra. Like he's def not acting townie, but I've seen him act like this as town before so ...

- Don't understand the screen wagon

(I think I caught all the wagons lol)

tldr: I don't really change my vote often, and I don't really vote null-reads unless it's like deadline. Out of all the vanity wagons, Mulch is scummiest to me.

Like I approach the game more from 'I think A is scum because x,y,z so I want to vote for them' then from 'I don't see why A is town so I don't see why I shouldn't vote for them'. Lalendra and UCV, and kinda Stitch and Srceen too, fall into the latter category for me. Like I don't especially townread them, but I don't especially scumread them either, so I don't really see a reason to vote them just now. Close to deadline, this goes out the window though.

I would vote FL actually too, but I kinda think that's less likely to happen than Mulch, so yeah.

Although now that I think about it, I do want to trace the Stitch wagon and see what happened there. I'll do that at some point later tonight.

[skitter30]

Cuz I don't think you're ever getting lynched today so I don't see the point. It's not that I don't want to do the work so much as I don't think it's a feasible wagon in this gamestate.

Why are you baiting me to vote you?

And I'd feel better about you if you just like responded to me.

No, I can understand the people-pleasing thing wrt to the fact that you've been wagon-hopping. But that's not what he's accusing you of:

And your reads list was people pleasing as hell. Nobody should be town reading me right now. I’m intentionally playing in a way so people won’t be town reading me as of right now.

I don't understand why FL's characterizing your townread on him as being 'people-pleasing', given that I don't exactly see a specific audience that you'd be trying to please/appease/agree with by giving that read. I mean, other than himself, but a) I don't know why he thinks you'd be doing that there and b) this is long a really weird round-about way of accusing you of trying to pocket him.

[skitter30]

FWIW, I explicitly do not believe the neighbor claim as stated. Namely, FL might be a neighbor, but I don't think Mulch is his neighbor if he actually is.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the mechanics but I'm not sure what you mean here. Isn't neighbor inherently town? And if Flavor Leaf is a neighbor, and mulch is not his neighbor, then wouldn't he call mulch out for fake claiming neighbor? I guess I'm saying I can only see this working if they are both scum, but you say you believe the neighbor claim which I thought had to make him town.

Neighbors aren't inherently town.

Mulch has already admitted to not being his neighbor.

I only vaguely believe the neighbor claim.

[skitter30]

This is literally the first time I’ve been on the Stitch wagon,

This is my point? You and Mulch want it. I scumread both of you. The fact that this is the first time you're on it is significant because ...?

Like, who cares if it’s less likely to happen.

And like me. I care. I don't see the point in starting yet another vanity wagon that I *really* don't think is going to lead anywhere right now. Mulch has some amount of support; I don't think you do.

and your hesitance in voting me keeps me from town reading you.

???? What on earth does this even mean? You'd townread me if I voted for you? What does one thing have to do with the other?

This is why I feel like you're baiting me into voting for you. Like what does this even mean?

Vote me.

And this, of course, compounds that feeling.

Okay, honestly, there is absolutely zero point to fake claiming a neighborhood right here. I fakeclaimed it in that last game because it’s the only way we got out of my own scum partner counter claiming my fake claim in late Day 3.

And I have answered that question, and it honestly doesn’t matter.

I can actually see you pulling this twice in a row just so you can have fun with the WIFOM.

If you answered it, where did you answer it? And I do think it matters because I think your reasoning for voting him was bs because it doesn't make much sense. You specifically accused him of 'people-pleasing', which by definition kinda necessitates on audience for him to be catering to. Like where is this happening?

Why was I at all a town read with the way I've been playing and it seemed like he just wanted to ease me away.

Is this what you mean? Like ... why was he manipulating that list to ease *you* specifically away? Like ... what's the motivation for that there?

[skitter30]

Vote me.

I don't get why you're baiting me to vote you, or why you're being incredibly manipulative about it ('my hesitance in voting you keeps you from not townreading me'). Like the fact that you keep on doing this in a really slimy way makes me want to not do it.

I feel like no matter what I do, you're going to scumread me for it:

-if I don't vote you, I feel like you're going to tell me I'm not putting my money where my mouth is

- if I do vote you, I feel like you're going to tell me I did it for the townread.

I kinda feel like you set me up that no matter what I do, you have a reason to scumread me.

I don't really like this, and I feel kinda manipulated.

To be fair, I have my perspective of knowing it’s not fake, but you should know that my scum game, while it might seem chaotic, is completely and entirely controlled. I like having synergy with my scum teams. I always have my support as scum. Where’s my support here?

I fakeclaimed it in that last game because it’s the only way we got out of my own scum partner counter claiming my fake claim in late Day 3

????

You fakeclaimed it last game because your partner cc'd your fake-claim ... but I should be able to tell you're not doing it here because your scumteam always supports you and that isn't visibly happening here? What on earth are you trying to say?

and you have pointed out that this is different from my scum game.

I don't believe I've ever said that. I do believe I've said multiple times that some of the things you're doing I think is NAI.

The entirety of his reads list was put in a way where the right people would be happy with it, and the wrong people didn’t matter. I believe I said this in my color wheel.

This is bullshit and literally means nothing. That's my whole problem with your vote on him. It sounds nice but doesn't actually mean anything and I can't get you to back up what you're saying concretely.

Wasn’t it you the one who were confused with a lot of Seph’s reads?

viewtopic.php?p=9783627#p9783627

scum-readslist ^^^^

Made a ridiculous amount of sense in that gamestate, to the point that I basically got pocketed for it and didn't notice the (minor) holes in it until like three weeks later when he got into a 1v1 with someone else. No real-time interaction like this.

I'm pretty bad at scumhunting D1 and the game is stagnating so this is where I'm at rn:

Town pile

: Creature FL YoshiFan Srcreenplay

Lurker pile

: COA UCV Lalendra

Scumlean pile

: Skitter Mulch

Scummy pile:

Stitch Transcend Fro99er

No idea what he's thinking here.

I don't think this is his scumgame. I don't know if I can explain it better than this.

I think you're town but I don't understand like any of this. Or more accurately, one of the reasons I think you're town is *because* I don't understand like any of this lol.

[skitter30]

Right, that's my whole point. He's trying to argue that the readslist was designed to cater to people, but the only person that statement appears to apply to is himself; I don't know why he's calling this 'people-pleasing' and not just pocketing. Like I don't know who these people are, and I can't get him to back it up.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

inb4 he scumreads me for voting him

[skitter30]

You have FL down as two separate wagons, have Stitch as voting twice, and have Seph voting for the wrong person. There may be more errors; that's just what I noticed at a glance.

[skitter30]

Your apprehension disappears fast when you can jump behind someone else leading the way.

I mean ... I said that no matter what I did I felt like I was set up to get scumread for it, and the fact that he was baiting me was making me not want to do it. But yeah, you're right. Didn't see the point in voting FL earlier because I didn't think it was viable. It became viable.

[skitter30]

K, I went away for like half an hour and what the hell?

Where did this stitch l-1 come from? Why are multiple people baiting Seph into hammering stitch before he claims or like has a chance to like react to his wagon???

[skitter30]

No, that's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. Try again.

Why isn't scum!me chainsawing for partner!stitch?

[skitter30]

No, that's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. Try again.

Why isn't scum!me chainsawing for partner!stitch?

Because you’re just lost town.

No, I'm the one who pointed out why your vote on Seph was asinine and he sheeped that reasoning. Try again.

Why do you think I'm town here and Seph is scum here?

Why am I not chainsawing for Stitch and pocketing Seph?

[skitter30]

K I have to like reread those last six pages or whatever cuz I only just skimmed them when I came home, but the overall impression I got was that this stitch wagon came up suspiciously quickly, and that FL is baiting Seph into hammering Stitch before a claim or before he comes back and can like react to this.

[skitter30]

Seph isn't scum. I don't know how else to say it, or what I have to do convince you lot of it. This isn't his scum game. It just isn't.

How the hell is Yoshi the third scum?

p-edit: No, you just tried to manipulate me so that no matter how I reacted to your wagon I'd be scumread. There is no fucking way I'm shhhing right now.

[skitter30]

Stitch and then one of Seph/Skitter. I don’t think Seph/Skitter are both scum.

Right, that would be ridiculous, because then, you know, all three scum would have decided that it was a good idea to be the only three people on a FL wagon that would ultimately be a mislynch.

Got it. Seph is the one chainsaw defending his buddy, and Skitter is just being ignorant.

Why? Why isn't it me? How did I go from scum who doesn't want to commit to a wagon on you to ignorant town?

Like I said, I’ll be conf town in a day or two. And now they’re gonna push me harder so that doesn’t happen.

You've admitted that you lie all the time about your role, even as town, so I should believe that you'll be conftown in a couple of days because ....?

ScumBoon would be setting up WIFOM all over the place that would guarantee a scum victory by now.

I mean, I accused you setting up the WIFOM already?

[skitter30]

Note to self: read this post again later.

I kind of suspected that srceen was the neighbor given how hes been more laser focused on me than other players and you said I wasn't getting enough attention.

+1

Sephiroth, Stitch, and Yoshi.

There’s your scum team.

Why Yoshi? Why not me? Like where on earth are you getting these things from?

Also, I’m not even the first point to point out that his initial reads list didn’t make sense.

Pretty sure it was Skitter.

And I said like four thousand times that I thought he was town because of it. You decided that it meant he was 'people-pleasing' for an audience that you can't specify, and when I pressed you on it, you said it was you. And why is it even relevant who said his readslist doesn't make sense first?

VOTE: stitch
Let’s see.

Now he’s L-1.

Damn

You're also baiting him to hammer. Why is this a thing???

@Seph - Hammer Stitch and prove you aren’t his scum buddy then. Let’s see what excuse you have to not bus your buddy here.

This is manipulative as fuck.

your hardest scum read and now you're chickening out

yet you gave me shit over screen being my hardest town read then I voted him.

hahahhahahahahahahhahahehehehehehoehehehohohohohoho

This isn't how he plays as scum ffs. He hard-bussed when TIAM quickhammered someone because he thought it would look better and I called him out for it. He'd just bus him and move on. Like I'd cite the posts but I'm kinda going through this now and I'm not convinced anyone actually checks the links I cite anyways.

I retract my vanilla townie claim

Shocker.

[skitter30]

Okay, say he claims two shot cop.

You still hammer?

And now you're baiting him to hammer even if he claims a PR???

[skitter30]

I also don’t scum read Seph.

Wagon speed is not alignment indictive and I recall suspicion and scum reads expressed so I’m not quite understanding that point from Seph and Skitter.

I"m aware, but this looks suspiciously like a cw to me tbh.

- I actually kinda liked Stitch's recent posts, and two of my biggest scumreads are pushing it, which kinda makes me wary of joining it.

They're both on it now and people are baiting Seph into hammering.

Like this is sketchy af to me right now.

[skitter30]

Skitter, I’m over the people pleasing thing. I just really don’t care about it.

And honestly, Skitter, I don’t think you could be making these posts as scum. I don’t mean to sound bad with that, but I’ve never seen you as this great scum player who can control a game. Does that answer suffice? Unless you’ve really stepped up your game since we were scum together, which I didn’t knock completely out of the park, but it’s less likely than the others just being scum.

You're the one who made the people-pleasing thing into a thing in the first place. I don't care if you're over it. I'm not.

And no shit I don't post like this as scum, which is, you know, why I think Mulch faked a read on me, and why I think your read progression on me is kinda bullshit

[skitter30]

Skitter have you ever considered

After leading mislynches 4 times last game


That you look for the wrong things in what’s scummy

You were a mislynch, Lalendra happened while I was v/la, scum!TIAM got lynched, and I voted correctly in MYLO. What are you talking about?

[skitter30]

@Skitter - Seph is pushing me and Stitch as scum, so what am I a counterwagon to?

I think Stitch is your cw. I think Seph is town. I'm not especially convinced Stitch is scum, which I've stated a few times today.

[skitter30]

And what do you mean ‘people’ are baiting him?

I believe it is JUST ME.

Screen is too, and I pointed it out earlier. I can pull it up again if you need me too.

[skitter30]

Right, but the thing is that I kinda think you're pushing him as a mislynch and that you fell back on that once your wagon appeared.

[skitter30]

Honestly I put that loss more on flubber than skitters. Also wave kind of should have just claimed his actual role.

Nah, Flubber was always town there (btw it was partly meta of ongoing games taht I couldn't talk about which has since ended), but it would have been nice if he hadn't sided with you. And yeah wave should have just claimed.

[skitter30]

This isn't how he plays as scum ffs.

you missed the part where I townread him

ffs

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you particulary; it was more my frustration that people in general don't seem to get what I was saying.

[skitter30]

Screen and FL both strongly scum read me and want me vigged. I'm kind of getting the idea they're not neighbors at all and theyre just scum together.

I think I have to go back and check FL's other game at some point and see what exactly the fake-claiming neighbors thing was.

[skitter30]

I literally didn’t know if you were town or scum

I never read your posts they were too long lol

And hey, remember why I called for your mislynch? I accused you of provably not reading the game and making up reads.

[skitter30]

Contradiction again. You said if Stitch flipped town, I’m less likely scum. So there’s a scenario I wouldn’t be in your reads.

This was in reference to whether you should be viggd if stitch flipped town, not a blanket statement that means I can't have you in my scumreads . I feel pretty strongly that you're scum if stitch flips scum. You're really stretching for this one =/

Can you explain why you think they're both scum? I kinda think the opposite, that {stitch/FL} contains at most one scum, and that it's most likely FL.

[skitter30]

why unvote?

your read didn't change on me did it?

Nope, was going for a reaction and I liked your reaction.

So you decided to do a reaction test on a townread in the form of voting him?

[skitter30]

Eh, I guess I can kinda see that, but what I'm a little hesitant on is that he started with the Stitch thing *before* his wagon started and before he tried to tie you to it - like what was scum!FL's motivation for bussing stitch at the time of his color wheel, before his wagon was a thing?

I was actually getting the vibe that he was trying to tie you to town!stitch's flip tbh, but I'd have to go back and figure out where exactly I was getting that from.

[skitter30]

Like the whole vibe I was getting from last night is that once his wagon built, he immediately started to force through a lynch and end the day. Like where did that sense of urgency come from? Why did he go from lobbying votes for his own wagon to baiting you into hammering Stitch?

I think the difference is that his wagon actually began to form, he couldn't completely discredit it by calling *everyone* on it scum given that he had gotten up to 4 votes, and so he felt like he needed to redirect the thread to some other shiny target.

That's my overall impression from last night.

[skitter30]

I always push for days to end, especially early game. Want me to link a game where I was town screaming to end the day, I got modkilled for being undeniably town on Day 2 that day? Haha.

Eh, you've actually linked it in one of our other games together and I skimmed it then. You're self-aware enough of your own meta and boast about manipulating it enough that this doesn't actually impact much for me.

And I don't really think this general statement explains why you treated the Stitch wagon so differently pre/post your own wagon forming. You weren't pushing for the day to end before your wagon happened, but were baiting Seph into hammering Stitch afterwards.

[skitter30]

Yoshi, what are your impressions of the exchange last night?

[skitter30]

Don't expect me to play like a pro, I'm clueless disengaged lynchbait remember

I apologize; that was rather harsher/blunter than I intended.

I do think your posting style is kinda scummy, which is why I'm asking these questions, in an attempt to understand your thought process and your feelings on the game, to see if I can tell if they're genuine or not.

[skitter30]

Skitter is v/LA right? I’d like to talk null and scum reads with them.

I'm around now, and have skimmed the last ~10 pages; I need to actually read them though.

What do you want to talk about?

I actually think that of all the votes on that wagon, Transcend's was one of the least likely to be a bussing vote.

[skitter30]

If I'm a 2-shot cop and we dont end up lynching uzi today and I end up being nightkilled, uzi is scum

I wouldn’t night kill you as scum

Then I'm getting another peek off aren't I

You should have a clear then?

Like I said

IF i am a cop (I might be, I might not)

I checked uzi and they are scum

OK, if you're not a cop, can you explain why you think LUV is scum?

[skitter30]

Screen is also statistically likely town which makes it all the sadder imo

Can't you say this about everyone though? LIke what does this mean?

[skitter30]

These arguments are stupid. Let's just lynch the dog.

I don't understand the Transcend wagon tbh

[skitter30]

Transcend feels too detached from any interaction that happens in-game. I don't like how he said absolutely nothing about stitch and proceeded to vote him after begging someone else to convince him, which really wasn't much convincing at all. I'll have to review when he did that though.

And this is why I think he's town tbh.

I"m having trouble seeing scum get prodded into voting their partner, and then

leave their vote on their partner while their wagon develops because they don't want to read the game

[skitter30]

OK, explain to me why scum!transcend pops in to vote Stitch, and then leaves his vote on him while the wagon develops because he deosn't want to read the game.

Like ... why does he do that?

[skitter30]

Screen is also statistically likely town which makes it all the sadder imo

Can't you say this about everyone though? LIke what does this mean?

???

Why are you asking these dumb questions??

Because you're making dumb statements that don't mean anything.

[skitter30]

Why do I jump on my partners wagon here?

Bus

What’s my motivation to? Why do I draw attention to him there?

I'm with LUV here actually. Don't really think his vote was a bussing vote either. Lots of other places he could have pushed at that time, and I don't see why LUV needed to bus him there.

[skitter30]

OK, explain to me why scum!transcend pops in to vote Stitch, and then leaves his vote on him while the wagon develops because he deosn't want to read the game.
Stitch was bad as scum.
Like ... why does he do that?

Stitch was bad as scum and he's prepared to bus.

did you assholes generate 18 pages of crap while i was asleep?

zzz not reading

Like this is what he pops in to say when his partner got wagoned? I dunno. I don't see it.

Like if he were actually bussing him for the towncred, wouldn't he like put more effort into it? To, you know, actually look town afterwards?
Like the way he did it is a bizarre way to bus as scum. Like what did he actually get out of it?

[skitter30]

I'm leaning a little towards Uzi anyway, but that's why I initially voted him. Would you agree Stitch was likely bussed?

I agree that he was likely bussed, but I don't think it was Transcend.

I absolutely would not put it past scum!FL to bus his partner that way. Remember how he was tying Seph to a scum!Stitch flip?

[skitter30]

Why do I jump on my partners wagon here?

Bus

What’s my motivation to? Why do I draw attention to him there?

I'm with LUV here actually. Don't really think his vote was a bussing vote either. Lots of other places he could have pushed at that time, and I don't see why LUV needed to bus him there.

Is this what tmi looks like??

Skitter wtf

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

[skitter30]

Because a *lot* of people were calling him out as scum, and I could scum hopping on for the towncred once his wagon picked up again.

[skitter30]

@Lalendra: I actually don't think those posts are partner-indicative tbh

[skitter30]

@lalendra: I was townreading yoshi for most of day1, although I dislike a lot of his posts from tonight tbh. I actually think that's an easy thing to townread someone for, and he was doing it to provide content, not to especially try to give a partner a townread. Why do you think they're partner indicative?

@yoshi: I'm tending towards no on LUV tbh. He wanted Stitch, and voted Stitch after a vc, just like he said he would. Like he's not completely ruled out, but gut tells me probably not.

Like the only reason I'm not voting FL right now is because I'm not sure scum!FL kills Seph after blatantly tying him to scum!Stitch's flip? I feel like he'd keep him alive to push for a mislynch? Problem is that I could also see him doing this for the WIFOM unfortunately.

I'll prob be back in like an hour-ish if people want to talk.

[skitter30]

@yoshi: I'm tending towards no on LUV tbh. He wanted Stitch, and voted Stitch after a vc, just like he said he would. Like he's not completely ruled out, but gut tells me probably not.

Like the only reason I'm not voting FL right now is because I'm not sure scum!FL kills Seph after blatantly tying him to scum!Stitch's flip? I feel like he'd keep him alive to push for a mislynch? Problem is that I could also see him doing this for the WIFOM unfortunately.

Any idea who bussed Stitch then?

Sephiroth, Transcend, Flavor Leaf, Lil Uzi Vert, Mulch, Fro99er, Sreenplay(LYNCH!)

OK, so ignoring Seph since he's a) dead and b) wasn't actually voting Stitch, I think my most-to-least-likely-to-have-bussed goes soemthing like this:

FL > > > Mulch > screen > LUV = Frogger > Transcend

[skitter30]

@lalendra: I was townreading yoshi for most of day1, although I dislike a lot of his posts from tonight tbh. I actually think that's an easy thing to townread someone for, and he was doing it to provide content, not to especially try to give a partner a townread. Why do you think they're partner indicative?

States townread of Yoshi, asks Athena how she feels about Yoshi, explains reasons for townread and brings Athena's attention to those reasons like he is trying to convince her to TR him.

Idk, I don't really see it. I don't really see why scum!stitch feels like he needs to get his partner tr at that point? Like it was super early day1; it's not like Yoshi was widely scum-read at that point and stitch needed to talk people out of scumreading him?

[skitter30]

@yoshi: I'm tending towards no on LUV tbh. He wanted Stitch, and voted Stitch after a vc, just like he said he would. Like he's not completely ruled out, but gut tells me probably not.

Like the only reason I'm not voting FL right now is because I'm not sure scum!FL kills Seph after blatantly tying him to scum!Stitch's flip? I feel like he'd keep him alive to push for a mislynch? Problem is that I could also see him doing this for the WIFOM unfortunately.

Any idea who bussed Stitch then?

Sephiroth, Transcend, Flavor Leaf, Lil Uzi Vert, Mulch, Fro99er, Sreenplay(LYNCH!)

OK, so ignoring Seph since he's a) dead and b) wasn't actually voting Stitch, I think my most-to-least-likely-to-have-bussed goes soemthing like this:

FL > > > Mulch > screen > LUV = Frogger > Transcend

VOTE: Skitter

You are either playing the worrst I've ever seen or your scum. Pick one and don't tell me I'm scum in response, because I'm fucking not, and if you try to lynch me your getting lynched tomorrow regardless of your allignment, because it will be a dirty as fuck lynch

Mulch, I'm deliberately not answering this because you're beginning to piss me off again and I don't want to turn the thread into another ragefest.

Please don't join games I'm in in the future.

[skitter30]

@mod

: Please replace me

I have little to no interest in participating in another shouting match, and this game is frustrating me and pissing me off in turns. If the only way I can play this game without getting pissed off is to ignore someone, I don't think the game is worth playing, especially because I'm not sure I can actually ignore them; I kinda feel like another ragefest is inevitable. I'm not remotely enjoying this, and this is like the third time I've wanted to replace out, so I don't really see the point in continuing to play this game.

{Frogger, LUV}
{Yoshi, transcend}
{Lalendra}
{Creature, UCV} --- null
{Screen}
{FL}

No idea where to put Mulch.

[skitter30]

So, apparently I get blacklisted if I replace out because of player disagreements (but I was encouraged to replace out because I was frustrated at the mod error?), and I don't want to make anyone else deal with this, so I guess I'm staying in.

[skitter30]

I was never going to get at scum!stitch naturally given how I was perceiving the game that day, and I feel like I was given info that I wasn't supposed to have, so I feel like my perception of the game was tainted.

[skitter30]

Heya all.

p-edit: ok, why?

[skitter30]

Eh, I can see why you don't like that, but that's not where the frustration stemmed from. It's from the fact that I think that the integrity of the game has been compromised and that it unnaturally gave me information I wouldn't have had otherwise.

[skitter30]

Yeah I *really* don't think Transcend bussed.

Mod flipped stitch when he only had six votes on him; he didn't realize that Seph wasn't voting Stitch.

[skitter30]

Yeah I know, but my argument was that if you were bussing him .... you probably would have bothered to find out that he'd been wagoned? And like respond to his wagon in some way?

[skitter30]

so like even if i'm scum here, i would have absolutely no idea what had happened becaue real life took precedence

but sure you tr me for wrong reasons (:

Eh, fair. Still think that the most likely bussing vote on that wagon was FL's.

Doggo, is that a serious claim?

[skitter30]

so like even if i'm scum here, i would have absolutely no idea what had happened becaue real life took precedence

but sure you tr me for wrong reasons (:

Eh, fair. Still think that the most likely bussing vote on that wagon was FL's.

Doggo, is that a serious claim?

Only have read this page, but I literally faught and pushed that wagon the hardest, and exclaimed that I was gonna make a Stitch case prior to Mulch even replacing in. -.-

@Mulch - you were in my last game where I bused pretty hard, you replaced into it anyways, i don’t win games when I bus, I need my scum support.

Also, I’m down to clown with the mass claim.

I’m a neighbor.

Kinda agree with Seph that you were trying to tie him to stitch's flip though.

[skitter30]

OK.

VOTE: Lalendra

L-1 btw.

(Transcend, yoshi, mulch, frogger, me)

Should probably get a claim, final reads, yada yada yada, but I'm not convinced that this won't end the same way yesterday did, so shrug.

[skitter30]

I don’t see how you all are town reading Skitter.

You all just put someone to L-1 when Boonskiies shad literally just posted recently.

And I’m apparently the scummy one.

I don't really know what this means.

[skitter30]

a) I'm expected to know you'd just lolhammer someone now without a claim because ...? And I don't know what you consider 'early game'? Like is day2 considered early game? Idk.

b) there's like a guilty on her, so I don't really see why a lolhammer on her is such a bad thing to happen here tbh? If she's scum, yay, if not, transcend gets lynched for lying tomorrow. It's kinda binary, and it's not like we're in LYLO or anything.

[skitter30]

OK.

[skitter30]

I don't entirely understand why people have trouble with that post tbh.

If Lalendra's town, transcend faked a result on her. Town!transcend does this because ...?

[skitter30]

Eh, fair. That's why I asked if he was serious; I wanted to know if he was making it up before I vote there. If he's going to take it back, now's kinda the time to do so; if she flips town and he doesn't take it back like nowish I'm voting him tomorrow.

[skitter30]

Yeah, I'm kinda done with this game.

[skitter30]

His posting has been bad all game. The stuff at teh very end of day 1 was awful.

Still think he's scum.

[skitter30]

Guys, I just want to play for a bit longer at the very least. Let me go for now. You guys see me as scum, and I am trying to help prove I am actually town not really doing much, but I am putting my reads out there for you guys.

What do you guys want me to do? This is a big problem here. People tunnel and don’t allow people to speak and defend themselves because whatever they say will be pushed as wrong.

It doesn’t matter what i say, you can’t be convinced you are wrong, which means you are tunneling town or scum. If it is the former, help me help you.

Yes, I’m actively self meta’ing to help, because like, my meta is true, even though i am self aware of it. I’m actively trying not to be toxic right now. I wasn’t very egotistical, but I’m dropping it here.

Say I was confirmed town, what would you want me to be doing? Because I’m trying to figure out what Ivan do to make you town read me, and that’s what others should be doing vice versa. I have stated that I personally prefer town hunting to scum hunting, which is why I think I’m a late game player, mixed in with my setup knowledge, but instead of attacking me for my scum reads, can we comment on my town reads, maybe? I don’t know.

These.

[skitter30]

Oh yeah, I totally think Mulch may have done that; a bunch of his posts this afternoon are kinda throwing shade at me.

Also paranoid that Screen voted there because I said I'd vote you tomorrow, which kinda changed my mind. You're prob town.

Lalendra's prob flipping town. You're town unfortunately. Kinda think FL is probably scum here, and I'm thinking a partner is screen or Mulch.

[skitter30]

My deepest worry is that I'm going to be in an f3 with a scummy skitter and a towny frogger and not know which is scum

This too.

[skitter30]

That I only mentioned what? That I think FL is scum? I've been saying that since like mid day 1?

And like trying to avoid turning the thread into a ragefest .... hence why I'm not commenting on most of your posts.

[skitter30]

I think FL's trying to pocket UCV actually. Look at his color wheel. He has UCV as his top townread, which makes lots of sense here, right?

[skitter30]

Me?

I can see him calling out town!UCV. I don't really think he calls out scum!UCV.

Think UCV is more likely than not town here unfortunately. Kinda sad that his only vote the whole game was voting you in RVS.

[skitter30]

Yep.

Pretty sure UCV's town.

I think scum are in {FL, Mulch, Screen} tbh. I'm townreading most everyone else.

Kinda think Transcend is town here too unfortunately.

[skitter30]

Eh, anyway. Pretty sure Boon is scum, and so are one of {Screen/Mulch}. I think Boon's trying to pocket UCV, who is probably town.

I think that Transcend's town unfortunately. LUV's probably town, as are frogger/yoshi. I still don't have a read on creature tbh.

p-edit: You're the one who said you thought Transcend was gambiting ...

[skitter30]

Eh, anyway. Pretty sure Boon is scum, and so are one of {Screen/Mulch}. I think Boon's trying to pocket UCV, who is probably town.

I think that Transcend's town unfortunately. LUV's probably town, as are frogger/yoshi. I still don't have a read on creature tbh.

p-edit: You're the one who said you thought Transcend was gambiting ...

This is the worst readslist I've ever seen

I'm prob tunneling you tomorrow

I'm gonna re-evulate

I'm not lynching Frogger
Skitter is saying some of the worst posts I've ever seen in my life but I think they are town
I think Yoshi is town
I still think Transcend can be scum but idk
Uzi's reaction has been pretty towny but I think they could be scum, the problem is I don't know if they can muster up this rage as scum and I don't think they can fake it
Lalendra is acting way townier than their usual games- is this scum??
Creature is flat out town
UcVoyager is town through meta

What if it's flavor leaf or screenplay

I mean, according to your last posted readslist, our lists are actually kinda similar, but OK, sure.

And I'm probably going to ignore it, but have fun!

[skitter30]

I kinda think he's trying to pocket you, and if he's scum, it worked.

There's been a ridiculous amount of WIFOM, and I called him out on it like twelve times already, and he is kinda controlling the game (see: stitch lynch).

[skitter30]

Still think FL is scum, so VOTE: Flavor Leaf.

That night kill is one of the most bizarre I've ever seen tbh.

[skitter30]

I don't really see it.

[skitter30]

I don't really see it.

Scum that are Boon like to make weird kills so they have more leeway latergame to explain why they haven't been nightkilled.

And for the WIFOM.

FTFY

This one still makes like no sense to me.

[skitter30]

That isn't a tell for me.

Your meta tell is bullshit. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73947&user_select[]=29653. ctrl + f for 'like', it only comes up about 381 times. I literally rewrote posts last game for starting every sentance with 'like'.

[skitter30]

Is that like directed at me?

tldr: Pretty sure scum is FL + {you/screen/UCV/creature}, in that order.

I'm not entirely sure why you're pushing massclaim right now? (Or yesterday for that matter ...?)

[skitter30]

you/screen/UCV/creature

How in the world can you think I am scum, or Creature is scum

And explain Screen scum, and UCV scum

The tldr is that I think you faked a read on me and that your posts just seem incredibly fake to me. This includes: posts exhibiting anger, frustration, and indecision; generally over-reaction-y posts that read incredibly similarly to me as ones in 1946 while you were getting wagoned where you raged; and the over-explain-y posts I cited earlier in the game.

Creature is hard null; I still don't get the townreads on him. For him it's really PoE because I think everyone else is townier.

Screen is mostly null but I don't like his involvement in the 'FL-baits-Seph-to-hammer-Stitch' thing.

If I assume boon's scum, which I strongly believe, he's either hard-pocketing town!UCV or trying to draw attention away from scum!UCV (ie this would be the scenario where they're partners). Boon having UCV at the top of his color wheel doesn't make sense to me otherwise.

[skitter30]

Like all of this in my ISO so I'm not really sure why you want me to repeat it, but sure.

Spoiler:

generally over-reaction-y posts that read incredibly similarly to me as ones in 1946 while you were getting wagoned where you raged;

Show the similarities bc afaik I have huge meta differences

559

(Remember, the post I got into a thing with Boon about?)

The point was to over-explain I already explianed this 1000x get it into your head

See 559.

Creature is hard null; I still don't get the townreads on him. For him it's really PoE because I think everyone else is townier.

Explain how others are townier

Creature is obvious town

Yoshi/frogger/LUV I think are townier, so by PoE, Creature is less town than them.

Screen is mostly null but I don't like his involvement in the 'FL-baits-Seph-to-hammer-Stitch' thing.

WHy

He was baiting him too. 1202

[skitter30]

@LUV: Why frogger + Mulch (specifically the frogger part)?

I could switch to Mulch if that becomes a thing, but if Boon tries to claim like anything else I'll probably just vote-park him tbh.

I agree on UCV.

[skitter30]

Is that like directed at me?

tldr: Pretty sure scum is FL + {you/screen/UCV/creature}, in that order.

I'm not entirely sure why you're pushing massclaim right now? (Or yesterday for that matter ...?)

Ok guys. I'm hard claiming cop. I am confirming that flavour leaf is scum. Time to lynch.

VOTE: flavour leaf

Repeating this. Strongly believe that Mulch is his best bet for partner (they've been vouching for each other all game), followed by screen. (Ucv/creature not so much anymore)

I forgot to mention last night that FL was also trying to pocket Creature - I pointed that out like on page 10 or whatever and that's what prompted his initial scumread on me.

(It also worked; creature was townreading boon through the end of day1 or day2, I forget)

[skitter30]

Though, I'm starting to think Stitch was a planned bus and scum really put effort to get most towncred off it.

Right, that's what I've been trying to say. That's exactly what I think FL was doing, and why he was baiting Seph into hammering - it would theoretically set Seph up as a mislynch for his reluctance to hammer and pseudo-clear FL. Seph called him out on it before the flip and kinda ruined that plan I think, and I'm guessing that's why Seph died, because I think after the Stitch thing and how it actually ended up playing out, Seph was probably unlynchable.

[skitter30]

I think Mulch is scum and the most likely FL partner.

VOTE: Mulch

I don't like that he's been pushing massclaim for three days in a row now.

P-edit: lol no. If everyone else decides it's a thing I'll do it. Not doing it for you.

[skitter30]

We talked about it yesterday. You've dismissed all my reasoning, so I'm not really interested in rehashing it with you again tbh.

[skitter30]

Alright, I gotta preserve my reputation.

I still think Stitch was a bus to give both other two scum towncred.

So:

Stitch(7):

Sephiroth

,

Transcend

,

Flavor Leaf

, Lil Uzi Vert, Mulch, Fro99er,

Sreenplay

(LYNCH!)

Neither Uzi nor Frogger have been overtly trying to get towncred for the bus, and neither of their votes were like strong enough that they would be able to get by the rest of the game on towncred

In contrast, mulch (and FL) has been playing the 'I was pushing stitch before it became a wagon' card.

[skitter30]

I want to reiterate how if I'm ever in a game as scum with town Skitter I'm NKing her night 1.

<3