Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Postie]

F... first?

VOTE: wgeurts

Haven't seen you play in a while. Hi!

[Postie]

I was honestly expecting the thread to be full of spam by now what the heck is this guys

[Postie]

Oh maybe that's it. Idk there was a lot of hype and I had my eye on the clock.

[Postie]

What

[Postie]

VOTE: northsidegal

What

[Postie]

VOTE: northsidegal

What

To be clearer: why is your reaction not a) asking Llamarble what he's talking about, or b) voting me to put extra pressure on me?

[Postie]

Someone ttm

Hi! Why did you vote for north

[Postie]

i didn't think there was any ambiguity as to what he was talking about. it seems pretty obvious to me that he's saying that you're already obvscum, and i think entering the thread like that with a forced read is a weak entrance. my vote was already on you, for one, and for two i thought a better place for pressure was on llamarble.

i'm not really sure what your issue here is.

If you believed he believed he'd really found something why didn't you ask him what it was so you could assess how genuine his reasoning was?

[Postie]

i didn't believe that he really found something, hence my saying that his entrance was forced (kind of like how your questions feel).

Okay, and the scum motivation behind him lying about having found something is what?

[Postie]

he forces a read to a) pretend like he's generating useful content and b) stagnate things by ending rvs early. moreover, i think in general a forced entrance like that is just more likely to come from self-conscious scum than from town. that's not to say that i believe that he's necessarily scum or that any of those were necessarily his strategy – just that i think it's likely enough to warrant moving my vote while we're still in rvs.

Did you think that no one would question him or did you think that he was banking on never having to explain himself? I'm not really following.

[Postie]

I'd probably have forced something, but then there were 4 scumtells in a 3 post ISO.
Is that density even beatable? "Honestly this is the first post where's the spam I was pregamethreadwatching for" might do it?

My team got me hyped for the start -> I went to make a cup of tea before gamestart but it took longer than expected; I thought people would be as hyped as me and I'd miss RVS spam -> got here 15 minutes after game start and no one had posted

I don't understand what you're saying.

[Postie]

Did you think that no one would question him or did you think that he was banking on never having to explain himself? I'm not really following.

where are you going with this? yeah, he probably would explain himself eventually. i expected the explanation to be "i forced a read to get us out of rvs". none of this factored into my decision in the slightest.

Would you not have believed that explanation? If not, why not?

[Postie]

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

[Postie]

what difference does it make between helping him out with his pressure on you and voting him to put pressure on him? there's nothing to say that following him is the "logical" thing to do rather than pressuing him.

Two votes instead of one creates more pressure and more focused pressure.

i assumed he didn't have anything because, looking over your posts myself, there really wasn't anything there that could reasonably be interpreted as a scumslip. sure,

maybe

being the first to the thread opening could be interpreted that way, but i put more weight into awkward rvses being scum indicative than that tell anyways.

I can understand this and along with the stuff you said earlier about believing Llamarble was giving a sort-of "token read" (if that's along the lines of what you were saying?) I can

kinda

see how your reaction could come from town but at the same time
it's just really fucking weird way to react and your actions make a lot more sense from scum than town to me

this is really forced.

Explain?

[Postie]

Honestly is a word probably more used by scum, at least when it looks like that.
And yeah, I think scum might have their eyes on the start time a bit more particularly since we didn't have to confirm roles.
That's probably significant enough for us to prefer a lynch on one of the first-hour posters.
I don't like "where's all the spam" either. Noise is scummy (eventually).
F...first has scummy cadence too. Did we ever calculate whether ellipses are just a scumtell? Doesn't matter.
Hypemention is minor towntell but not enough to avoid lynch.

I didn't like Marquis' first couple posts either; I forgot about that.

If it helps shed some slight on some of these things, I've been playing a lot of turbos (blitz games) offsite on MU, and the last few games I played on MS went at ridiculous pace (including one that had reached 162 by pages the end of day 1). I saw Team Mafia being hyped up by my team and others, and that the games were large games.
I expected spam. There was no spam. It weirded me out.
That's it.

Also RC says northsidegal is obvious town by play and also would have been likely to pick town.

[Postie]

postie, what does the rest of your team think about this interaction?

Oh and I was told to tell you that RC told me to tell you that stuff before you asked this.

[Postie]

VOTE: wgeurts

While I ask about clarification from RC on northsidegal things.

p-edit: Nice timing.

[Postie]

If you'd like to take a moment away from patting yourself on the back for having apparently already solved the game (or pretending to), I still have you and Marquis to sort out of the people who've posted so far.

Why's Marquis scum?

[Postie]

What does "full-breakdowny" mean? And yeah, I've been called "accomodating" or similar things as town before. Interestingly, I don't think anyone has ever called me that as scum. Can probably dig you up some meta to show it's NAI.
Re-read Marquis' posts. I'm willing to roll with that.

VOTE: Marquis

Also

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

I missed this. Definitly RC and idk about the rest of my team. Why does it matter?

[Postie]

Keychain now also agrees that northsidegal wouldn't pick scum and has provided this game as evidence, highlighting this post.

[Postie]

Keychain now also agrees that northsidegal wouldn't pick scum and has provided this game as evidence, highlighting this post.

I like how by providing evidence you've managed to make your claim less compelling than it was previously.

I wasn't sure if people would take RC at his word so asked for links but if people are happy to take RC at his word then please do that. >.<
I thought that game was a good example to use because I read nsg's ISO and it shows how much she struggles to post the way she's posting here as scum (her thoughts are really superficial as scum); before that I'd never read any games from nsg-scum.

[Postie]

Haven't read the rest of the thread yet but

I can understand some suspicion on Postie as some of my team members have already warned me they're jolly good at playing scum, enjoy it, and some already want me to vote her.

Outside of my first scum game, the only one I've really enjoyed, I have never not been lynched as scum on this site. Your team members can get stuffed.
Also "team members" plural? The only who should remember that game apart from you is Espe.

[Postie]

I thought you were Scum here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64506

Otherwise, was that your first Scum game?

That was my first scum game, yes.

[Postie]

I don't know how good at scum Postie is. She has mostly towntells at this point, but when I try to meta her I keep reading GD threads.

You could have asked

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=70536
^ Last one I played. I did okay at first but then as soon as people started putting pressure on me I shut down and became a coasty postie and eventually replaced out. It's the one I menioned earlier so I don't expect you to read the whole thing but feel free to skim my ISO or whatever.

Then there are these from 2016:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66865
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=67718
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=65639

I wish I had more to show you from 2017 or something but I haven't played in a while. I feel like I had more than that in 2016 too but I can't find them right now.

[Postie]

@wgeurts

and some already want me to vote her.

Coming back to this post again for a second - please tell me who and why, because between this and what I mentioned in 169 I'm not enitrely convinced you aren't bullshitting.

[Postie]

[snip]

Oh yeah these are all scum games. I have loads of town games I can link you if you want but I figured you'd be more interested in scum games.

[Postie]

Hi Eddie

"Two out of three is all you need, and you should have it, so just lynch Marquis and Postie and we win" - Mastina.

RC would like to know specifically when Mastina said this.

[Postie]

Nsg is locktown to me and teammates fwiw. This is way outside of her scum range and has the RC seal of approval so I won't be voting there today or ever.

Hi Eddie

"Two out of three is all you need, and you should have it, so just lynch Marquis and Postie and we win" - Mastina.

RC would like to know specifically when Mastina said this.

Early on when this game opened. I plan on getting back with her within our thread to hash out thoughts since the game has further progressed now.

Thanks. Follow-up question: has she been around since then?

[Postie]

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

You're capable of more than this as town and my team mates don't think you've been towny either.

[Postie]

Yeah I guess that post doesn't really incite the kind of engagement that would be likely to help me sort you. You've just been really flat and superificial this game which isn't what I'm used to seeing from town!you and idk what to do with that.

Do you have any questions for me? You haven't really engaged with me this game except to ask one easy question about my meta.

[Postie]

I would never use this argument because it lacks anything concrete, but Mulch said that Llama should fuck off with their SR on us.

Did he give a reason for his reaction? If not, can you ask him? Does he think you've been particularly towny?

[Postie]

Hey Dunn, how many games have you played with RC and what is your general opinion of RC's townplay?
I will explain the relevance of this shortly.

[Postie]

Unpopular opinion: I think Gamma's town.

Ok but why are you voting dunn? Your vote for him is nonsense and there's a lot of scum motivation to park on the lurker who is literally doing nothing, and then make a big show about it as if you had some hyper special read on him and you didn't understand why others didn't. What do you think about the literal anything else thats happened in this game? Why do you think that dunn is the best vote when there is so much going on? Why were you unaware that it wasn't a wagon vote when you've placed your entire sorting efforts in this game into figuring out what happened in that one random early vote?

Okaaaay you're blowing this way out of proportion and I don't like it. I literally unvoted the second I realized my mistake. And the reason I thought there was a wagon there was I remembered votes on someone Llalmarble suspected, and knew some people were suspecting Marquis, so I thought the votes were on her. I get that there is some scumminess to what I did, but I didn't just votepark, I actually thought I had a point. And I've asked other questions and made other reads, so what I'm seeing here is you boiling down my content to one misguided push. Given that and the fact Something_Smart is telling me not to trust you, I feel comfortable with this.
VOTE: TheStatusQuo

The vote here and the way he questions TSQ's motives in this post and the ones following feels like it comes from a place of genuine frustration at not being understood.

[Postie]

If you're asking me to explain why I townread Gamma, I already did. If you're asking why I think the opinion is unpopular, it's because I haven't seen anyone else townread Gamma and there are votes on him. Otherwise, I have no idea what you're asking.

[Postie]

Also what's the point in not giving postie scum if they're bad at scum but can be coached through the game?

Coaching doesn't make you magically good at playing scum. Especially since my problem with playing scum comes down to being overly self-concious about how I come across, and not strategic errors I can be coached out of making (although I make those too).

See: this game where I rolled scum with RC and was coached but still failed miserably.

wouldn't scum also experience genuine frustration at being scumread?

Yes, which is why I said I believe his frustration was coming from the fact he didn't feel understood. I believe he was genuinely frustrated with the way you couldn't understand each other's thoughts (which he then rationalised as you being scum misunderstanding on purpose to make a push on him), and not the fact you were scumreading him.

[Postie]

I literally unvoted the second I realized my mistake. And the reason I thought there was a wagon there was I remembered votes on someone Llalmarble suspected, and knew some people were suspecting Marquis, so I thought the votes were on her. I get that there is some scumminess to what I did, but I didn't just votepark, I actually thought I had a point. And I've asked other questions and made other reads, so what I'm seeing here is you boiling down my content to one misguided push.

You can see the focus here is on explaining how he believes his actions differ to how you presented them - he's saying he thinks you were misrepping him.

Alright guys, got our first.

Wanna actually address my issues with you rather than say "got our first"? Or do you just want to throw shade?

So this is based on how you play then? That's alright but not everyone plays the same, so that's not a perfect method of reading people.

Then he continues to engage you, as a follow-up to his vote. From these comments I get the vibe he's not exactly 100% on his vote and is looking to get more information out of you to develop his read.

Looks pretty natural to me.

[Postie]

I

literally

unvoted

the second

I realized my mistake. And the reason I thought there was a wagon there was I remembered votes on someone Llalmarble suspected, and knew some people were suspecting Marquis, so I thought the votes were on her.

I get that there is some scumminess to what I did, but I didn't just

votepark, I actually thought I had a point. And I've asked other questions and made other reads, so what I'm seeing here is you boiling down my content to one misguided push.

I think you can also very much see the frustration bleeding through here as he's trying to explain.

[Postie]

I have seen similar emotion from scum who feel they have been caught for the wrong reasons

So have I - what differentiates it from that for me is the fact he then circles back and asks you questions to develop the read.
If he were scum I'd expect him to just frustratedly vote you and then either move on or start shouting about how you're scum without showing any signs of doubt or second thoughts about his conclusion.

[Postie]

Why's Tchill scum?

[Postie]

VOTE: EddieFenix

Also can we take a moment to discuss the hot garbage that is EddieFenix's ISO
It's just a bunch of sitting back and saying things from the sidelines or am I missing something here

[Postie]

Eddie do you have like
reads

or anything that isn't theory or IIoA

I'd like to hear the opposition to Llama, if you could be so kind, LQ .

Do you have any opinions on anyone else that could/should be added to the town core, LQ?

you! Why is LQ in your null area?! I'm still waiting for that answer.

I also notice you ask a lot of questions like this but never seem to reach any meaninguful conclusions from the answers you're given

[Postie]

Talking more to the rest of the thread than Eddie now but

I'd like to hear the opposition to Llama, if you could be so kind, LQ .

I'd like to hear the opposition to Llama, if you could be so kind, LQ .

Llama has so far been a vary chaotic player. As such, I think those sorts of players are the type you can't get a solid read on right away. That's why I am hesitant to put them in a Town core. It's not even that I SR Ll, it's that I don't feel comfortable giving a solid read on that slot yet, if that makes sense.

Like look at this exchange
You'd think that you'd ask the question Eddie did to try and discern something about Llama or LQ's alignments and a natural follow-up to this exchange would be to consider those things

But instead we get

Completely and utterly logical imo.

And yeah you can say well maybe he just wasn't really sure what to think yet and was mulling things over but can you point me to anything resembling a reads progression from him

anywhere

in the thread

[Postie]

Can you trim down the fucking quote walls guys

[Postie]

PEdit: Postie sorry but another wall is coming soon, would you mind it if it was spoilered?

I just meant to trim down any nested quotes to the actual quote you're addressing

[Postie]

What sort of moon logic are you on with my wording? Is building a town block

bad

to you? I'd love to hit the mark and just keep on chugging along to lead to victory, because yo, I want those Town MVP points if a tiebreaker is a make or break for being the top team.

Keychain didn't like the LAMIST here. I'm inclined to agree; both the tone and the unecessary addendum about wanting town MVP are horrible.

[Postie]

Why isn't EddieFenix in your scumpool Llamarble

[Postie]

Hey Dunn, how many games have you played with RC and what is your general opinion of RC's townplay?
I will explain the relevance of this shortly.

A lot of games, he's calmed down recently I think, he used to be the person I saw fakeclaiming/hard pushing his read every single game because he was confident on them

I don't understand the relevance

Okay then you should know that RC is pretty fucking great at town, which seems at odds with you criticising me for referencing my teammates, no?
The fact you dodged giving an opinion on RC's townplay here after I explicitly asked you for one also also has me concerned; it feels like you had suspicions about where I could be going with this and wanted to avoid getting yourself into hot water.

rubs me the wrong way

which I felt was towny at first but realized would be happening if she was scum too

You seem to be simultaneously saying I'm being scummy and being NAI - which is it, and why?

Postie - I disagree in the entirety of 323. Failing to come to good conclusions makes me think Postie is acting in bad faith. Overall I feel confident in reading Postie.

1. Are you saying I'm scum for disagreeing with you? If so, please tell me why your opinions are so self-evidently correct that I couldn't possibly see things differently?
2. Did you read my follow up posts where I explain my thoughts from that post in more detail? Do they have any affect on your opinion? Why or why not?
3. Why are you confident you can read me?

[Postie]

Okay then you should know that RC is pretty fucking great at town, which seems at odds with you criticising me for referencing my teammates, no?
The fact you dodged giving an opinion on RC's townplay here after I explicitly asked you for one also also has me concerned; it feels like you had suspicions about where I could be going with this and wanted to avoid getting yourself into hot water.

postie, if we can't take it for granted that you're town then obviously we can't take it for granted that the opinions of your teammates are coming from a town perspective. am i misunderstanding what you're saying here?

Not taking it for granted is fine, but Dunn specifically called it scummy and voted me for it.

[Postie]

Marquis I'd like you to ISO Eddie and tell me what you think. See 388, 390, and 402 for why I think he's scum.

And since you scumread Gamma, see 331/332/335 for why I think he's town.

[Postie]

@LQ

- I've noticed your teammates don't seem to have had any input on this game. Is there a reason for that? What are their thoughts?

[Postie]

That makes sense. I'd like to get some of their reads though, because I find it odd that they don't have anything to say. I guess I'm mainly talking about Mulch here, because he's a pretty hyper player. What are his thoughts?
Also from what I remember Creature doesn't usually have much difficulty throwing out a couple reads. Can I get something from them too?

[Postie]

No see the thing about legitimately scumhunting while keeping your conclusion to yourself, Eddie, is that I should still be able to see that you are in fact scumhunting

None of your pushes, your questions,

anything

you've posted has any sense of direction.

Sometimes when a player has made a bunch of posts that amount to absolutely nothing, the answer isn't that they have a ~super secret~ godly thought process behind it all that your feeble mind can't comprehend, it's just that they're scum.

[Postie]

most of what people are bringing to me as an inquiry are things that I don't see a whole lot of relevance to actually sort me. Examples include Postie asking me to ask my teammates what their reads on players are in this game

How about you give me an answer for this and then afterwards I can actually explain why it's relevant to sorting you.

[Postie]

I don't know why mathdino has a townread of Sauce. I trust that he does, but I'm baffled and can't respect it. I continue to see nothing of value from that slot, and I find it's voting patterns incomprehensible.

If you look at Sauce's ISO long enough they become obvtown. That, or you lose your mind. Whichever comes first.

[Postie]

LQ wagon is more inspired than Marquis or Tchill but EddieFenix is still one true best lynch.

[Postie]

So Eddie, you get one more chance - a clearly articulated readlist will help us understand you better.
Who is scum? Clearly articulate why you believe this. Your reasons need not be perfect; they just need to be your actual ones.
Who is town? Clearly articulate why you believe this. Your reasons need not be perfect; they just need to be your actual ones.

Well of course he's going to pull a non sequitur token wallpost out of his ass now that he's being called out. That shouldn't excuse the rest of his content.

[Postie]

Calling Llamarble as the N1 kill.

[Postie]

I don't know why mathdino has a townread of Sauce.

Wait a sec... MathDino?

[Postie]

I don't know why mathdino has a townread of Sauce.

Wait a sec... MathDino?

Nevermind.

mathdino has some thoughts he would like me to share. first, he says that he's almost positive that sauce is town, having played with him.

[Postie]

If you want to spearhead the charge on my lynch, be my guest. I know you're already voting me, so keep coming with the heat and pressure. I don't care at all really.

This antagonistic approach makes sense from the PoV of you seeing us as different alignments - but you aren't voting me and haven't expressed a scumread of me at any point.
I wonder why you would see us as opposite alignments without seeing me as scum.

[Postie]

DAVSTO MY MAN

[Postie]

VOTE: wgeurts

yeah i should have took my vote off postie apologies for that.

Dude you're almost as bad as Eddie at this point what the heck is this vote
I'd like a readslist pronto, please

[Postie]

I don't think it's scummy that he backs down from voting me. What's scummy is that he then sits on his hands and can't follow up with anything new.
Though something that's causing me to hesitate here is the fact that if he were this disengaged and unable to play the game as scum, I don't understand why he would pick it? He's not exactly a newb either so he should have a rough idea of his capabilities as scum.

[Postie]

1. Are you saying I'm scum for disagreeing with you? If so, please tell me why your opinions are so self-evidently correct that I couldn't possibly see things differently?

Read post

Explain like I'm five.

Context: Marquis asks to be pointed in a direction. Receives groans. Postie pops by and doesn't waste an opportunity to promote her petread like some kind of psychotic Jehovah's Witness. I would say Postie's conviction here is town. The main problem with Postie is that her reads are bad- the push on Eddie has some substance (sure pushing someone that makes that townbloc comment and never relenting is cool), but she later makes a weirdo post which amounts to "Eddie has no direction, something something super secret reads are scum" in 469. Eddie never admits to having a super secret read, but I'm puzzled how that would be a scumpush.

I'm not sure how to explain the things you're confused by any better than I already have, and you seem to be ignoring 90% of my reasons for scumreading Eddie in favour of nitpicking this one thing. I don't know what else to say to you because this is such an astronomically skewed interpretation of events. I don't think we're going to mesh well this game.

Keychain now also agrees that northsidegal wouldn't pick scum and has provided this game as evidence, highlighting this post.

I think I disagree? Nowhere in the linked post does nsg claim to be bad at scum - if anything, they said they don't want that particular game to be taken "as an indication of how good i am at mafia" and that "things aren't usually like this" - that doesn't scream "I would never pick mafia" to me.

I forgot the point Keychain made exactly but it was something to do with the bulletproof claim and the fact that it was really terrible and got her quicklynched.
That's not the main point though - read/skim her ISO in that game. Nsg has a

very

limited scum range and her play here is night and day from her scumplay.

[Postie]

I like how you criticise Llamarble for not sorting his reads the "right" way when you've commented on maybe two people's alignment this whole game.

[Postie]

white knighting

Oh goody another for my collection

Postie feels like she is WKing SS and that makes my scumdar ping something fierce

the way you (Postie) came in to rescue Wyvern really got my heckles up

you were townreading my scumread in such a way that I figured either you were partners or you were WKing a scummy-looking town slot

No offense but simoyd/postie is really obvious now [...] based on Postie's case [for town!Simoyd] which makes absolutely no sense and would never trump his current inconsistencies

postie is defending RC to the grave, and this comes off as if she KNOWS Rc is town

[Postie]

Postie:
In the first link you self meta a bit mentioning you're prone to "can you" questions as scum
You have 3 can yous in this game.

I can't find what you're talking about from that first link (do you mean the bottom link?) but that's correct, or was at one point. Things have shifted a lot since then though; I make a conscious effort not to phrase questions that way as scum now, and I've just naturally been doing it a lot more as town for some reason. I'd say 3 is pretty average. If you CTRL+F my ISO in the town games that those first two quotes are from, you'll see the phrasing show up there.

Do you really think Eddie is scum? I may be falling for 'too scummy to be scum' here, idk.
Like, yeah, he is not performing the basic functions of a town, but is that because he's scum? Not sure.

I'll admit the way he seems to be almost actively avoiding producing reads when pushed for them feels potentially... too-stubborn-to-be-scum? But he also hasn't really been under a lot of pressure since I seem to be the only one wanting to lynch him.
What I can't get over is the fact that he's written paragraphs and paragraphs of content, and

none

of it means anything wrt game-solving. Like I can't understand how you can have that much to say about the game while having nothing to say about the game. I'm not sure how to read it as anything other than busywork when it contains neither a reads progression nor any lines of questioning that are meaningfully pursued or lead to conclusions.
In other words it's not that he's failing to do town things, it's that he's trying to pass off fluffy IIoA-laden busyworky garbage as doing town things.

What fraction of your team mafia time is going into this game?

Around 68% I think.

[Postie]

What's the point of this

To show it's NAI

[Postie]

Okay, so it's either NAI or town indicative
The important part is that it's not a scum thing

[Postie]

Outside of my first scum game, the only one I've really enjoyed, I have never not been lynched as scum on this site.

To be fair that's like, 90% because everyone's been very, very wary of you since you absolutely smashed your first scum game. This is bad self-meta.

Just because people were wary in the game you were in - the one

immediately

following my first scum game - doesn't mean you know the reason why I was lynched in

all

of my other scum games, because that absolutely wasn't why I was lynched in all of my other scum games.

[Postie]

Idk I guess it doesn't I was just annoyed that Davsto decided to generalise his experience in a sinlge one of my scum games to all of my other games.
Even if what he's saying is true I wouldn't see how it would change anything though, since not being lynched is ultimately what matters as scum, so -shrug-

[Postie]

I have Tchill as null and the wagon seems to be driven by town so I'm okay with it. There are scummier people but it's not awful.
Definitely not voting Gamma.

[Postie]

MOD NOTES

Prodding TChill13. He has 24 hours to make a content post or be force replaced.

Also no hammers before we know if he's being replaced or not

[Postie]

I have a readlist but I'd rather not share it for now because if I get nightkilled I don't want there to be ambiguity about why it happened. I don't want to give Eddie an out.
Alternatively, I'd be happy to share my reads once I've placed all my nulls because then I can die having done my job. Not that I'm saying my reads are likely to be super duper amazingly accurate or anything, but dying before having made a guess for the scumteam I can be happy with just sucks.

[Postie]

Why ?

Because I can't read Tchill but if he's replaced there's a chance I can read the replacement.

[Postie]

I have a readlist but I'd rather not share it for now because if I get nightkilled I don't want there to be ambiguity about why it happened.

this is at minimum very anti-town.

???

I want to be alive to push EddieFenix, becaue no one else is doing it. If I'm dead I at least want it to incriminate EddieFenix.

[Postie]

My goal is to get EddieFenix lynched. If I give a readslist with other scumleans people can then argue that they were the reason I was killed. This obstructs my goal of getting EddieFenix lynched.

[Postie]

in order for your logic to work from our pov
a) you have to be town
b) eddie has to be scum
c) people have to think you're such a gigantic threat to them that they nk you because of it.
d) one of your other scum leans has to be scummy enough in other ways that people push on them simply because you died.
e) that person has to be not scum.

do you see why I'm having trouble with this?

a) isn't a problem if I'm killed, and if I'm not then I can push EddieFenix's lynch, which is my goal. b) is very likely true. c) is what I'm trying to avoid, because it stops me fulfilling my goal. d) and e) can both easily happen, but don't have to, because someone can use a scumlean that is actually scum to defend EddieFenix by saying my death doesn't make him scum while also not pushing for that person to be lynched.

[Postie]

Do you expect his replacement to be able to answer for Tchill's meta in regards to posting?

No but I don't see his play here as so damning that no replacment would be able to do something town enough to convince me the slot isn't scum.

Or can you prove that if Tchill replaces out, it's NAI?

Why would I need to?

[Postie]

you realize that what you're saying is literally an argument against literally anyone sharing their reads from their pov right?

It's an argument against sharing a full readslist when you're very set on getting someone lynched. That doesn't mean not sharing

any

reads. I'm still giving you both my top scumread and a bunch of my townreads, because I'm unlikely to be killed for townreads alone and arguing against other potential lynches I believe are town helps me lynch the person I think is scum.

[Postie]

Willing to share all the people I think are 90%+ likely to be town.

northsidegal is locktown, and I believe should be locktown to anyone else who's ISO'd her in the game of hers I linked.
Sauce is close to locktown. I need to put a lot of thoguht into how to explain this one so I haven't so far since he hasn't been under threat of a lynch, but I will do so shortly.
Llamarble and Gamma are both very solid town. Llamarble's flow wrt solving the game feels very organic, and Gamma I've already explained.

[Postie]

game of hers I linked

For reference

[Postie]

game of hers I linked

For reference

I noticed nsg is still considers herself newbie-ish in that game, so here's another more recent scum game so you can see how she's improved. The stuff she's done this game is still well outside of her scum range.

[Postie]

Eddie is classically scummy. He was also classically scummy in the last game I played with him, where Chesskid vigged him and he flipped scum. He was also my buddy, actually, after my alignment changed after D1 (bonus: you can see how much more awesome I am before I become scum - half of my ISO is from the 2 days between when I replace in and when my alignment changes). AD was in that game, along with Chesskid. They think he's different here; I'm not sure I see it. It was TBD mafia by the way.

Thanks for that. I think he's different here in that he's posting in paragraphs/walls, rather than making shorter posts, but I don't see how that makes him not scum?

[Postie]

I went and found an Eddie town game.

Holy shit he needs rope right the fuck now

[Postie]

@Dunn

- Link me some games that show Tchill has a meta of lurking as scum?

[Postie]

You're only showing me his town games. You need to actually show that this is something he's more likely to do as scum.

[Postie]

isn't postie doing the same thing?

Llamarble already linked a scum game.

What are you guys seeing, can you point it out

I compared this to that, I feel like he's a bit more muted than that game but his play seems to be coming off similar in tone

You'll notice that in the town game he's quick to start asking questions, giving reads, and actively trying to sort the people he's unsure on. There's actual, obvious game-solving happening, unlike here and in the scum game Llamarble linked where his ISO is full of fluff and the odd token question that he doesn't pursue or use to reach a conclusion. Idk how to explain this further without doing a post by post analysis. Which I might do.

[Postie]

Let's just hammer Tchill and see what happens.

I'm still working on some important posts and and pestering my teammates for feedback please for the love of god give me some time
Will catch-up properly later kinda busy/sleep-deprived right now

[Postie]

Hello yes I am working on the Eddie pbp now. RC also said he was going to help me out so hopefully I'll have some thoughts from him tonight as well.

I actually somewhat share Srceenplay's frustration at him seemingly being already noosed while not having had the chance to interact with people properly because I feel like there's thought progression starting to bleed through that could be readable but people are too tired to reconsider. I realise we're getting close to deadline though so that's understandable.

[Postie]

Hey Postie I'm glad to see you again.

Hi! You too. =]

[Postie]

@Davsto

- RC wants to know why you said Eddie looked bad and then didn't follow up on it.

[Postie]

RC wants to know why you don't think that sounds exactly like scum: careful not to risk making a big mistake while being underwhelming on the whole.

[Postie]

Also yes RC agrees Eddie is scum ("obvscum") btw. All the thoughts I've posted on Eddie have been my own, but he was the one to originally suggest I look at his ISO and tell others to do the same. I'd have mentioned it at the time but Dunn was giving me shit for posting too many of my teammates opinions.

[Postie]

I'm not averse to being convinced though, so show us what you've got!

Coming up in no more than a couple of hours! I'm a slow writer and there's a lot of detail to unpack in this. =[

Eddie being so tuned into all the reads on him is just funny, like I didn't know it was possible to play exclusively to scum wincon so hard and not be obvscum.

I agree that Eddie is obvscum, I just suspect he has a town role PM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test

[Postie]

INCOMING

[Postie]

PART 1 - TBD MAFIA 2



<-- click to read ISO!

AKA Eddie's scumgame

The first 8 posts of Eddie's ISO are fluffposts, mainly banter with other players and one set-up speccy joke(?) post:

Spoiler:

While I didn't make the question about vigs, I would find it funny for practically everyone to have a "vig shot" and with it, you could shoot your role elsewhere and be like I'M VT!! Now, I don't see the mod

actively

doing this, but playing a game where you can pass roles to different players would be pretty... Interesting and chaotic.

When he finally asks a serious question, in his 9th post, it concerns another players' role:

Spoiler:

oh wow I can post in the gamethread after I did that

btw I'm voteless now

Wait, what did you do exactly, Ali?

He has nothing to say about said player's answer.

4 posts later, we get our first few questions that could be used to sort people, intersperesed with more superficial fluffy ones that can't:

Spoiler:

@Lycan, cam you provide an answer to why you posted that.... Rather odd rant?

Im already preparing you for tomorrow, when ill have a similair posting restriction to what snarky has right now.

But your point is taken

Wait, you're going to have a post restriction as well?

Does anyone else have a post restriction at this point? I know we have Snarky and Dreamerz confirmed, so that's 2 at least.

Bulb, why the PL on Mulch?

Mulch, Why is Screen scum?

Y'all need to back up off my Shakespearean rhyming entertainment, damn it!

DAMN IT, I HAVE A FEELING I KNOW WHO TOBY IS!!

Aronis... is that you?

Of the useful questions he asks:

• The question towards Bulb is never followed up on - he
  does not ask any further questions
  , and
  does not make any conclusions
  .
  
• The question towards Mulch isn't followed up in that he does not ask Mulch any further questions, but you could perhaps (though IMO it's a bit of a stretch) argue that there's some follow-up in Eddie asking Mario a question about Mulch - however the focus is once again on
  set-up spec
  , the question being about Mulch's role. He
  does not make any conclusions
  .

Wrt his question to Lycan, since Eddie does have some interactions both with and about Lycan and eventually votes him we're going to look at how that develops in a bit more detail:

Spoiler:

Lycaaaaaaaan, still waiting on an explanation to my question

i'm more macho than alisae is and i wanted everyone to know it

He reiterates the question towards Lycan and after Lycan gives a non-answer, he stops engaging with Lycan.

After more fluffy speculation and another dose of

set-up spec

, Eddie asks Bulb a question about his read on Lycan, and then finally places a vote:

Spoiler:

Bulb, mind giving me some more info on why Lycan?

Not at this time. Trust me on this one. I know what I'm doing.

Just want to say up front as well, thank you to people for not spamming the shit out of the thread for the last 2 days and making it to where when I come back to the thread, the catch up is manageable and not, "jesus tap dancing christ, why!!!!!". I've been busy af. So, y'all are much appreciated. Also, Bulb, I'll trust you.

Vote Lycanfire

You'll notice that Eddie

does not reach his own conclusion

on Lycan, instead sheeping Bulb despite Bulb having given no reasoning.
He also

does not engage with Lycan

for the rest of the day; he repeatedly says he's voting Lycan because he "trusts" Bulb, keeping his vote parked there while not attempting to sort Lycan himself (when he unvotes later, he fails to vote another player that day).

I think that's a good enough place to leave off for TBD. It should give you enough of a snapshot of his scumgame that I can point out how it differs from town!Eddie.

[Postie]

PART 2 - NIGHT AND DAY MAFIA

AKA Eddie's towngame

3 posts

into his ISO Eddie starts asking questions:

Spoiler: (emphasis mine)

@Eddie, why shouldn't we lynch you for saying the word traitor?

Why is the word traitor a bad thing to you?

Town has no logical reason to consider one and sparking said conversation can easily be a crumb.

So again, why shouldn't we lynch you for it?

Ahhhh. I gotcha now. See, I know the individuals in the light side, and I'm attempting to pick up a read on them 1 by 1 in our PT as well as their actions in thread. By the word "traitor", my meaning goes to that person being scum. I'm sure there's a "traitor" in the light side as well, I just don't know whom yet. But I will take a read/peek into what I can to sniff out scum. I will not falter in rooting out traitors to this game!

Ved, Aronis and Rauth are scum to you, yes?

Bulb, Dark PT update/status. What's up on that end?

Oh @Bulb, if I didn't come in and at least make a dramatic post voting for you as my opening vote, it wouldn't be a mafia game with us separated ! I still got my eye on you, obviously. However, I know we have bigger fish to fry all together. Thoughts on

Titus

and Ved?

Vote 79 CE

Let's see how this turns out. I've had a gut scum read of 79 CE for a bit, but I needed to sort out a couple other reads.

Titus

and Ved have hit my scum list. Gin is null-town. Bulb I feel is gonna dagger me in the back by being scum (cause he's cheeky like that ), even if I'm currently reading him town (even with my dramatic opening vote post). Dramonic is town. Zeus is town. Gin is town. Gamma Emerald is town. The rest who aren't here sit at null.

These are posts 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 of his ISO. You can see that

within the space of 5 posts

he has

engaged

with Titus,

asked

others for their thoughts on Titus, and then

reached a conclusion

on Titus.
There's a very logical flow to what he's doing that you can follow. You can see that he's taking steps to sort her, and he's focused on the task.
From that last post you will notice he's also very forthcoming in giving

reads

.

Since you can see that he's sorting Vedith in some of those posts; let's see how that develops next:

Spoiler: (emphasis mine; some quotes trimmed for length)

Oh @Bulb, if I didn't come in and at least make a dramatic post voting for you as my opening vote, it wouldn't be a mafia game with us separated ! I still got my eye on you, obviously. However, I know we have bigger fish to fry all together. Thoughts on Titus and

Ved

?

Vote 79 CE

Let's see how this turns out. I've had a gut scum read of 79 CE for a bit, but I needed to sort out a couple other reads. Titus and

Ved

have hit my scum list. Gin is null-town. Bulb I feel is gonna dagger me in the back by being scum (cause he's cheeky like that ), even if I'm currently reading him town (even with my dramatic opening vote post). Dramonic is town. Zeus is town. Gin is town. Gamma Emerald is town. The rest who aren't here sit at null.

I was lying. But nice one on scum claiming putting someone to L1 when I said I would Lol hammer them, EddieFenix.

I knew you were bluffing. Is this seriously the best case you're going to put up? This "GOTCHA" post?? It would be hilarious if it weren't pathetic.

Your bluffing on this dayvig shot. Seen this gambit a few times on this site.

I've seen an image of a donkey sitting at a coputer desk playing Counter Strike on this site.
We can try to see who's got the crazy scenes all we like, but you're flipping... And flipping scum!

Confidence in this ploy will get you nowhere but the gallows or you just get labeled and ignored for the rest of the game for wasting a day vig shot and ending the day prematurely.

If you're doing this to cause chaos and shake the voting tree

, it's not a wise or smart plan at all. You've put yourself in a lose-lose/FUBAR situation.

@Dramonic, what exactly has drawn you to voting Vedith?

My case is that you've been irrelevant and unnoticed and you haven't been adding much to the game. You've just been kinda there. So because of that you are probably scum.

Tone here is bad, it sounds like you're trying to sound towny and full of yourself but it doesn't seem believable.

So a completely flimsy case hinged on being unnoticed, adding much, just being there sparingly, tone being bad and being full of myself because I'm calling out the fact that you're calling me scum. Alright....

Did you miss the fake dayvig shot thrown in my direction from Vedith?

Because in all honesty had that actively went off, he'd have been asshole deep in a world of pressure because of not only wasting his shot on day 1, but on town day 1. Wouldn't have gotten much information from my death because of your previous points of being unnoticed or adding much, would have it? Why shoot me to begin with for being able to notice you were lying about claiming to hammer at L-1, after also stating earlier that you'd shoot Gin with a shot IF you had it? From that fake day vig shot at post 558, you can see a change/shift in the active game. A scum read of Rauth is now starting to come across as town for some people.

Now, going back over that

I still consider Vedith my #1 scum read

,

but I could easily talk myself into seeing Ved as town/dumb town

on the other hand. He's confident that his shot will work, it'll flip me scum, and he sticks to his guns even after finding out it's not going to work as he intended. But, the complications with trying to justify that come with too many questions. Why make that fake day vig ploy in the first place? What does it accomplish? How does this affect the game going forward?

Does my alignment flipping town change YOUR (the rest of the town's) perspective on Veds play?

Again, easy to follow progression when you break it down. He

asks

someone else for their read, then

reaches a conclusion

. Afterwards, he

engages

his scumread, and

engages others

others on his scumread. You can see he feels a need to develop his read this way because he

has doubts

- highlighted in

italics

.

I'll stop there because otherwise I'd just be going over the same sort of things again and again; he goes on to follow this process throughout his whole ISO. From what I've given you, you should be able to pick out these sort of steps yourself if you look for them. And I recommend you do, particularly noting how frequently he engages like this, to have your own complete picture of his play and be better tuned to seeing the differences here.

[Postie]

PART 3 - TEAM MAFIA 2018: WHITE FLAG

AKA This game

To summarise, Eddie's scumgame can be charcterised by:

• frequent fluffposts
  
  
• heavy focus on
  set-up spec
  
  
• failure to
  follow-up
  on questions with meaningful
  further engagement
  or
  conclusions
  
  
• being
  slow to give reads
  
  
• having only
  a very small number of reads

His towngame, on the other hand, is characterised by:

• infrequent fluffposts
  
  
• heavy engagement
  with other players, and
  making frequent conclusions
  whilst engaging
  
• being
  quick to give reads
  and giving them
  frequently
  
  
• having
  a large amount of reads

I feel like I'm just kinda pointing out what I pointed out before here, so

please

read the above posts and compare the differences for yourself, and then look at his play here.

In terms of thinking about how Eddie differs here from his scumgame, I do think he has a larger amount of reads than I initally gave him credit for, but I still have a problem with how they don't seem to follow on from anything he's doing in the thread the way they so clearly do in his towngame.
There's also obviously a lack of set-up spec since this is an open set-up with no PRs, but I feel his ISO is padded out with theory to much the same extent as he focuses on set-up spec as scum.

Something else that reminds me of his scumgame in addition to the above is the way he voteparked Gamma with no explanation, and then later unvoted and sat on his hands. It's a lot like his vote and then subsequent unvote of Lycan in TBD2. In his towngame he was

always

pursuing someone (and pretty quickly, several people).

Add to that the fact that I don't think Eddie has shown any signs that he'll be improving his engagement in the game, and I think this is 100% the best lynch for today.

VOTE: EddieFenix

For emphasis.

[Postie]

Oh and Srceenplay is hardtown to RC something something don't make Whemestar an orphan.
I'm absolutely not voting there today.

[Postie]

Postie, have you ever given a read on T-chill when he was still in the game? Just curious.

Nah; I just called his wagon "uninspired". I didn't see any readable content from him.

[Postie]

[Postie]

RC wants Shea to know the he doesn't trust him and to stop pushing shit lynches. Also he told me to yell at ActionDan to play the game yesterday but I forgot.

Going through all the questions I didn't get to answer now.

[Postie]

VOTE: EddieFenix

Obv. Also don't think it's a coincidence that the only other person expressing serious interest in this lynch was nightkilled. Me dead + Llamarble alive would've probably been more dangerous for Eddie than the other way round.

[Postie]

I mean there could have been other reasons but I wanted to point out that it makes sense from the PoV of Eddie being scum.

I am going here:

VOTE: Postie

Pretty much everything Postie writes I look at it in a way that RC has basically scripted for her. I can't prove it, but that's how I feel about it. Consider this a gut read.

Since you're here and this was on the first page I clicked on
LQ wtf why are you sheeping me
I mean keep sheeping me but also how did you get from there to here

[Postie]

@Marble, I've got Screen in my sights for today. However, from the AtE and flailing going on, I'm willing to let the case write itself right now and give screen more time(and rope essentially) to hang themselves with it. If anything, I'm a patient man.

I want to point out the dissonance in this. He implies that he strongly thinks Srceen is scum, but then says he wants to give him more time and isn't going to vote or push there.
Like, Eddie in this post straight-up, literally, says that he wants this lynch but wants it while sitting back and letting it play out without his involvement.

I didn't know it was possible to play exclusively to scum wincon so hard and not be obvscum.

Like jesus christ guys this isn't rocket science

[Postie]

That quote from Llama wasn't about the kill; I was pointing out how this is one example of many where Eddie is very obviously playing into a scum wincon/mindset and people need to stop overthinking and just lynch him for it already.

Likely to get scum lynched > is townread though. The latter matters in lategame but means very little right now. But whatever I don't care as long as you're voting Eddie.

[Postie]

Yeah hold on I'm trying to paraphrase RC's yelling at you

[Postie]

Eddie why the fuck should we townread you for avoiding being on a townflip you claimed to scumread

[Postie]

I'm willing to let the case write itself right now and give screen more time(and rope essentially) to hang themselves with it.

I

never

voted them because I wanted to keep discussion going for the day cause I had a feeling that Srcreen was trying to redeem the slot.

Fucking lol

[Postie]

Okay RC's thoughts are as follows:

@Ran:

It's obnoxious of you to tell others what you want from them after you tunneled Srceenplay like that. The way you interacted with him while never reconsidering your read was really awful. You should focus on improving your own bad play. He also thinks Cheeky supporting the lynch is wtf.

@LQ:

You're being bad and don't know how to read RC or anyone playing RC by proxy. Scum are probably setting you up for a mislynch. If you don't get lost we're not going to stop them if they are.

Shea is scum for:

• the way he tunneled Tchill/Srceenplay and largely lead the wagon
  
• brushing off RC's read of Srceenplay based on not respecting him, which felt like a scum excuse, especially given the people on his team have experience with RC and should know better than that
  
• apparently copypasting stuff from his town games

Obligatory patronising remark about staying away from the edge of the balcony

[Postie]

I had to cut out

a lot

of expletives.

[Postie]

This is pretty much exactly the kind of playstyle I would expect from RC. I think RC is in large part playing the game for you.

I noticed you dodged this one. Not looking good for you Postie.

I didn't respond because that's clearly NAI and quite frankly I'm done with responding to you because my goal is to lynch Eddie and this distracts us from lynching him. You're voting him, so we should be on the same page there. You can fight me after you've helped me lynch my "partner".

[Postie]

RC, your yelling doesn't endear me to you. I've given a reads list, and plan to give more. I'm asking Postie for a reads list so I can sort her better. Also, Shea isn't scum.

Postie, can you give a reads list now?

You should be able to sort me through my play and all the reads I've already given. I'll make a readlist if it actually helps but right now I have other stuff to do, like lynching Eddie.

RC says that after your Srceen tunnel he isn't going to take your read on Shea seriously

P-Edit Yeah okay we are totally done here LQ.

[Postie]

Stop the presses, Mastina hath deep dove my earhole (more or less CAPS LOCKED in my PT lol)

Ran and Marquis are 100%, dead to rights, scum. No need to question it.

UNVOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
VOTE: Marquis

When you need to find someone to vote but you haven't done any scumhunting

[Postie]

It sure is convienient for you that your townread on me magically reversed itself to exactly line up with the kind of argument you needed to appeal to LQ

[Postie]

Yo postie your post is great and all but one town and one scum game does not a meta make. Could I ask for (less thorough of course) examples from more town and scum games just to be sure this isn't just lucky and coincidental examples?

I mean it does make his meta when the games are literally night and day and he's still a newb in terms of the amount of games he's played.

Like what do you think the explanation for a sudden inability to make clear reads progressions and pushes when someone has been shown to be capable of it as town is, if not that they're scum (especially when it lines up with previous play as scum)? That they just suddenly became bad at the game? Because I mean it's obviously not that he's struggling to keep up or produce content in general like Tchill was since Eddie has been literally wallposting at points.

But fine:
viewtopic.php?f=100&t=61168&user_select%5B%5D=20256
This was Eddie's Team Mafia 2015 game, where he was town. Note the lack of fluff, how he engages with others, and how he was more than capable of giving clear and detailed reasoning.
I guess I can find more if it's super important to get you to vote Eddie.

Ugh there were more questions I was supposed to respond to I'm pretty sure but I have a headache now so I'll find them later.

[Postie]

IDK when it changed. It changed when i had the idea that it didn't look like Postie was actually playing, but that RC was playing through Postie. Let me go look for the first quote.

I think I said something like this too without specifying rc

Yeah you did and if you're gonna try and argue that it's AI again we're gonna have a bad time
Ftr RC has only been weighing in heavily today and just before deadline yesterday

Also

@LQ

someone has said exactly you're saying about town-me before without me even being hydra'd or teamed with RC:

I was pretty sure you were town, but some things sounded so manipulative rc like lol.
I mean, I said it in the game, it was just weird to see from you.

[Postie]

I'm gonna do my own EddieFenix meta-analysis to get my own opinion

Okay I'm holding you to this and I expect great things >=[
The fate of town rests on citizens like you >=[
frow ny face

[Postie]

RC says to get off LQ and that LQ is just bad town with ego issues

(But also that if LQ stops voting Eddie at any point he'll stop defending LQ)

[Postie]

Yo Postie any thoughts of your own currently?

Eddie is still obvscum. Everyone who I said was town before is still town and in fact proabably even townier now.

I just remembered you had a question for me earlier too.

Why not? As I see it you don't seem to have tried

I didn't see Tchill doing anything AI and I wasn't going to go through his ISO and repeatedly say "this post is NAI" over and over so that's why I made no comments. Srceenplay on the other hand was readable but you lynched him before I had the chance to go over his stuff properly.

[Postie]

@Davsto

- What's your read on me, and on TSQ?

[Postie]

things you'd never do solo as town in my experiences playing with you

Like what?

My read on you will be decided soon, dependent on how I come out of this EddieFenix metadive, because it's something much more concrete to grasp on to.

Do you think your thoughts on Eddie's alignment will affect your thoughts on whether I'm making a town or scum push?

[Postie]

Ftr RC has only been weighing in heavily today and just before deadline yesterday

Like do you think RC wrote my case on Eddie like wtf are you talking about

[Postie]

Oh wait you said game day not game fair enough

[Postie]

Me and RC's reads have homogenised a lot today. I think the only thing I sort-of disagree with him on is the TSQ scumread and that's really more "I haven't thought about it enough yet" than explicit disagreement.

[Postie]

Refusing to give more than one scumread,

That wasn't RC's idea. I tend towards having a few very strong scum and town reads, so it's just an approach that fits naturally with my playstyle. Although I'm aware RC has done this also, so it's possible I adopted it from him.

"LQ is bad town unless he unvotes my scumread then he's scum"

Neither of us said this. He doesn't become scum if he stops voting Eddie; he just becomes useless and not worth keeping around, for the most part.

On the other hand, if I find that a large proportion of games, particularly recent ones, don't fit your pattern, I will look unfavourably upon you.

The two I went into in detail were his most recent town and scum game.

[Postie]

Me and RC's reads have homogenised a lot today. I think the only thing I sort-of disagree with him on is the TSQ scumread and that's really more "I haven't thought about it enough yet" than explicit disagreement.

Why does he scumread TSQ?

Okay RC's thoughts are as follows:

[...]

Shea is scum for:

• the way he tunneled Tchill/Srceenplay and largely lead the wagon
  
• brushing off RC's read of Srceenplay based on not respecting him, which felt like a scum excuse, especially given the people on his team have experience with RC and should know better than that
  
• apparently copypasting stuff from his town games

[Postie]

- What the fuck did I copy paste from my town games?

This was actually RC sheeping something Firebringer said so I'll have to chase that up with Fire when he gets online. Something about it feeling like you were directly lifting things you did in town games into this game.

[Postie]

I know I'm not being precise but you can see how your slot is being really hard for me to read this game.

Not really. :L

[Postie]

Please give me examples of the actual copy/paste, because honestly it sounds like I'm being accused of being scum because firebringer noticed I'm playing in a manner similar to my town meta? Which honestly, that's just such a shockingly bad argument that I have to assume that he means something else.

Yeah idk either. Will ask for examples.

I'll wait to here more in depth explanation before responding fully, but do you think my play yesterday constituted a tunnel? Cuz honestly I can't think anyone who was actually paying attention to this game would characterize my play that way.

It was the way you didn't seem willing to reevaluate your read. You pushed for the lynch and low-key lead it while never seeming open to changing your stance or interacting with Srceenplay in a way that could open up the opportunity for you to.

[Postie]

(Does that help a little?)

A little.

[Postie]

If your problem was that Tchill had ruined the slot, why did you also attack Srceenplay's play? Like I get that if you thought Tchill was scum, that makes Srceenplay scum too and you'll be viewing his actions in that light, but I feel like if the driving factor behind your push was Tchill's play then a more natural response would be to say "look your predecessor was scum so I'm not going to bother to sort you or interact with you".

I also feel your case against Tchill was pretty weak to begin with and don't understand why it warranted writing him off as scum without being willing to reconsider. From what I can see your reasoning was basically that he was lurking...?

[Postie]

It's not like you can, with your play, make it so tchill did not play to his scum meta.

Can you give me links for the Tchill scum meta you referenced here?
When I asked Dunn he couldn't find me anything.

[Postie]

a)
Is that not exactly what the post I just linked you says?

The linked post? Yes. Other posts (1166, 1168, 1172)? No.

b)
My goal with srceenplay was to not let him wiggle out of the lynch as scum. All my posts were done with that in mind. Does that look bad for me now that he's flipped town? Yeah, but that's where my thought process was.

It didn't feel like your posts were really targeted at the rest of the thread though, from the way you were speaking. Like when I've interacted with Eddie I've pointed stuff out to the thread by talking to him, even though it was meant for everyone else, but I was loud and "hey guys look at this" about it. And I don't get those kind of vibes from your posts but it could also just be your personality so, like, idk. :////

[Postie]

Yeah but that's the thing - your tone

didn't

feel loud. It felt more like you were pushing the lynch in a low-key way.
Ehh, it's whatever right now I guess.

RC says he's not too sure you're scum right now either he just hates the thought of scum taking a town leader position and preventing people from leading on scum.
I'd agree that if I die tonight, you're basically in a great position to lead town, and that's a scary thought in a TSQ!scum world.

[Postie]

My problem with this argument is just that I don't think anything about the way I've interacted today has suggested that I was trying to benefit from not being associated with the tchill lynch. If the argument is that I'm low key pushing it, one would assume that the scum motivation for doing that would be that I didn't want to get blamed for it. I just can't see how you square that thought with anything I've done or said since.

Nah it's more like
It felt like you didn't want to sit back too far so you interacted with Tchill to seem ~involved~ while not actually getting so involved as to draw attention to yourself

[Postie]

*Srceenplay, not Tchill

[Postie]

@TSQ:

RC wants to reach out in case you're town. He says he thought discrediting you was important in case you were scum, but that he wasn't lockscumming you and that we'll leave you alone if you work with us. He says a large concern he had was that you locktown'd me early and he wants to know where that came from. He also agrees with a big portion of your readslist except Davsto.

[Postie]

When I read that post, I expected none of the questions in it to receive answers - as far as I can tell, that is in fact what happened and Postie also didn't follow up.

Then you haven't been reading the thread properly because all of those questions were answered

someone please question me so that i have a starting off point to get back into this game – it's been so long that i don't really remember the lines of questioning that i had going (if they would even still be relevant).

Why aren't you voting Eddie and what do I have to do to get you to vote Eddie

[Postie]

Marquis I probably don't need to tell you this but you are really out of touch with the game right now
Neither you nor anyone else should be taking your particularly reads seriously when you've barely been playing or reading

[Postie]

I haven't read up yet but

@Ran

, RC wanted to know why you're so determined to make LQ the lynch if you're scumreading both LQ and Eddie.

[Postie]

RC says that LQ thinking I'm bussing makes sense given he's seen RC bus a lot recently and it lines up with how LQ has scumread RC in every game they've ever played and so naturally reads anything related to RC as scum-motivated. He says that LQ's play has been bad but that doesn't necessarily make him scum, and that rationalising lynching Eddie because he thinks I'm bussing him might actually be something he wouldn't do as scum just because of how bad it looks.
He doesn't like that Ranmaru seems to be specifically saying LQ is playing badly and telling him to play better rather than telling him to play less scummyly. Some things on recent pages have been gut pinging him.

[Postie]

Something just came up that RC thinks makes Ran likely to be scum but we can't talk about it right now. Will do later.
I don't actually agree with RC though; still ridiculously townread sauce.

[Postie]

@nsg

- What's your Eddie read?

[Postie]

oh no LQ is doing that scum thing TSQ said he was doing again

[Postie]

LQ if you're town here we want to point out that there totally is resistance and both you and Marquis were counterwagons for a while before we shut them down

[Postie]

RC thinks LQ is town now/still ftr. I'm nullreading him I guess idk right now.

[Postie]

We're mid day 2.

No, we are not. We are like 3 days into D2, I would hardly call that the midway point.

This is really what you feel like commenting on?

Yes, I feel like commenting on things that are blatantly untrue. Why is that a problem?

There's

the (?town) LQ I know.

[Postie]

Ran, RC says that all he sees you doing right now is trying to make another Eddie counterwagon happen, and that if Eddie is scum he wants you lynched tomorrow. He says you should help lynch Eddie if you want your TSQ read taken seriously.

Sorry I'll start playing the game myself more soon too.

[Postie]

Postie I want you to post your reads list today.

Looks like we're actually lynching Eddie so I guess I can do this.

nsg, sauce/Ran, and Gamma are all town. Lycan, AD, TSQ lean town. Eddie scum. Still sorting everyone else.

[Postie]

RC still thinks Ran has a good chance of being scum with Eddie.

[Postie]

He says he'll do one tomorrow; doesn't feel like tryharding right now.

[Postie]

I'm reading the game but am unsure what to add to it.
Is there a reason we haven't lynched Eddie yet?
Like I'm cool with waiting if there's stuff people need to do but
I don't actually understand what it is people are really doing right now

[Postie]

Yes because RC has definitely been the one behind the Eddie push

[Postie]

Postie, there are still other people we can get more content from, like Action Dan, Marquis, and Lycanfire.

Sure I'll just wait right here for that to happen

[Postie]

VOTE: EddieFenix

Seems good for today

Hey Dunn talk to me about this vote
What convinced you to hop on at this exact moment in time and not earlier?

[Postie]

That's L-1, btw

[Postie]

RC says to lynch Ranmaru if Eddie flips scum. He says he doesn't like how Ran has been trying to make counterwagons happen despite having Eddie as a scumread and how they've been finding bad reasons to stall the wagon like saying they wanted more input but then seemingly not doing anything with it. He says Gamma could also be scum for his recent approach to the game.

Note that I strongly disagree with these reads and am putting them here out of respect for RC, or in case this stuff needs looking at later on what I believe to be the very slim chance that I'm wrong in townreading them.

My top scumread after Eddie is Dunnstral, based on PoE and the timing of his vote.

[Postie]

RC says not to hammer until Wednesday because he has a major post he wants to make.

[Postie]

Idk what I'm supposed to do; I'm about ready for the day to end. I've given my closing thoughts. If RC has extra stuff he wants to add then I don't see the problem with him doing that. It's not replacing anything I'm doing.

[Postie]

RC wasn't really that involved until today. In a world where I'm scum do you think he tells me to bus Eddie day 1? Was my drive to get him lynched then down to RC? My case?

[Postie]

I don't see RC's involvement on day 1 as that involved, but I guess it's a bit different from an outside PoV when you don't see the level of involvement behind the scenes. He gave the odd bit of input on occasion but mostly brushed me off when I asked him things; today he's been actively telling me to post stuff and been really open with his thoughts without needing any prompting.

What I mean wrt to my Eddie push is, like, read my posts. What do you think the chances are I can just fake that level of enthusiasm because RC told me to? How likely is it RC wrote a meta case that size for me and I just sat down and paraphrased the whole thing without any of it sounding like RC? Like I don't understand how you can read my posts for day 1 and think "yep this could all just be RC". That's both insulting to my play and the effort I've put in and incongruent with how bad you claim to believe RC is at the game.

[Postie]

RC says he mostly just wants to highlight that the possibility of Ranmaru-scum should be taken seriously. He doesn't feel like making a bigpost anymore after seeing TSQ's response.
He says that restricting his input weakens the town on the whole, and that on day 1 after he'd commented on nsg meta and disliking Eddie's ISO he gave no input until EoD.

[Postie]

RC wanted me to post his townreads in case of hammer. They are Lycan/Davsto hardtown and CES slight town. I asked for an explanation but he just said gut so idk how helpful that is but there u go.

[Postie]

game of hers I linked

For reference

I noticed nsg is still considers herself newbie-ish in that game, so here's another more recent scum game so you can see how she's improved. The stuff she's done this game is still well outside of her scum range.

Also friendly reminder from both me and RC that nsg should be locktown