FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over

[Servant Beast]

Yo.

[Servant Beast]

Yes, in general it's best to avoid giving information to the scum team.

But the game has started so it's time to plant down a vote.

[Servant Beast]

VOTE: Lancer

For now~

[Servant Beast]

Beast, why did you feel the need to announce your vote and then make a separate post with it? Had you not made a decision by your initial post?

The first post was to get into the right mindset, then I went to the first page, took a look, then voted.

[Servant Beast]

Guys and girls and all other manner of fauna and flora.
When I said don't give information away, I meant it. This includes hinting at the strength of your abilities.

[Servant Beast]

Because players that want it will come forward. Assassin is a good example, though he could have done it without mentioning how valuable his abilities were.

[Servant Beast]

VOTE: Saber

[Servant Beast]

I think I'd prefer having a town player in the slot.

[Servant Beast]

Yeah okay,

Saber seems fine.

[Servant Beast]

Archer, are you thinking that because Saber may have TMI'd that he's a poor choice?

[Servant Beast]

I feel like I’m being pretty wishy-washy. It’s probably still better if I’m not selected, although I won’t say no if we’re prioritizing trying to hit town. I feel like I’ll be pretty obvtown which is good for that, but also I’ll be obvtown regardless and don’t need the master to confirm me per se.

Glad I lucked into voting town correctly when the game started. Wanna be town buddies?

[Servant Beast]

Is overselling scummy or

[Servant Beast]

What are your thoughts on being the master?

I typed out a whole response and then realized maybe it’s not good to explicitly talk about stuff. I don’t feel the need to be given a master (is that the right terminology?), although it would certainly be nice.

yourself?

This sounded pretty honest, without pretension.

[Servant Beast]

My two TR's so far are Saber and Lancer. Berserker seems okay, but I may be reading in too much there.

After that, I can't really tell. Alter ego seems surface thoughtful. Bu they're taking pains to avoid being misunderstood.

[Servant Beast]

I think Saber is both town and mechanically a good choice though.
So I don't feel quite so conflicted.

[Servant Beast]

Gotta love when a Saber acts all Sabery.

[Servant Beast]

You're being clear and calculated. You're not saying who your town reads are nor are you justifying them. You're explaining your mindset to avoid being misconstrued.
I don't think every post you make is designed to help town and that wiggles me. Scum have an incentive to be town read and the earlier the better.
I'm null on you.

[Servant Beast]

Is there some reason you're pretending to be Fferylit AE? Just like, trying out a new style because it's an anon game or? It's worth trying to read you early I think.

[Servant Beast]

Yes, it's because I know she isn't a player in this game that I would ask that question.
I guess Saber didn't but, it's nice to see they got a little nervous over it. Or maybe it's just good acting.

[Servant Beast]

@I'm describing what I'm seeing from them and giving them room to correct what I'm seeing with their own interpretation. It's something to note, but I don't think that's scummy or else I would be scum reading them, not null reading them.

[Servant Beast]

Here's a question for you, Beast: Why did you feel the need to ask me that?

Because I'm trying to understand your mindset and approach. It sounds like you don't plan to share your opinions on players until later.

[Servant Beast]

I'm going to head to bed and pray that what I fear will happen won't actually happen. Don't ask me as I don't want to manifest that energy into the universe.

I'm not going to get mod-killed (I hope) for asking why they started off with a catch phrase from a player that can't be in this game.

[Servant Beast]

@I'm describing what I'm seeing from them and giving them room to correct what I'm seeing with their own interpretation. It's something to note, but I don't think that's scummy or else I would be scum reading them, not null reading them.

@Alter.

[Servant Beast]

Only if you don't want it to.
Basically, I'm giving you an invitation to talk more so I can develop a read on you. If you don't prefer that, then I'll just read you later.

[Servant Beast]

I've already answered you, you've not responded, and I just asked you a question that you replied to by quoting an old post you made that doesn't really answer what I asked. Nothing you have said to me makes much sense.

Maybe somebody else can word it better. To me it looks clear, but this is taking up more space than it's worth.
I'll try one more time.

1. You haven't said anything I see as especially townie, I was disagreeing with other players on their read of you as being townie. Based on what I've seen, I'd say you're a null read.
2. I wanted to see what your mindset was by asking about FF, with an open question about what you wanted and how you wanted to approach this game as an anon one, hoping to hear something interesting or perhaps even townie. I didn't know you weren't copying her style since she wouldn't have walls quite yet. So it looked similar enough to spark my curiosity, "what's their motivation? why are they presenting themselves this way?"

and so I asked and here we are.

[Servant Beast]

It should be noted I was also curious to see if you knew she couldn't be in this game and perhaps were trying to use it for some advantage as scum.
How would you have used it? No idea, but it would have been kind of interesting if it did trip you up.

[Servant Beast]

Well, 125 is an answer as to what my mindset is in approaching things. I would agree that the townreads on me are somewhat surprising given I wasn't particularly trying to act protown. Do you find any of the reads on me to be suspect?

I reread, I'm a little weirded out that Berserker and Saber just agreed with your mechanical opinions and towned you for it.

[Servant Beast]

Does anyone have serious objections to Saber getting the boost.

I'd like to move on.

[Servant Beast]

Does anyone have serious objections to Saber getting the boost.

I'd like to move on.

I don't see a need to rush the phase, especially when Ruler and Shielder have yet to post. I want everyone to weigh in.

I actually think my preference is more toward Berserker or Assassin, though that decision is partly motivated by personality, as I think they'd be easier to work with than Saber. (Although I do think Assassin became much townier when he started talking about his reads and not just his role mechanics)

I can't really imagine what you see in Assassin's personality that makes them preferable to saber. Assassin's entrance, if town, was impulsive.

[Servant Beast]

How would you have preferred I approached you lancer?

[Servant Beast]

Again, Assassins motivation was never the initial master. They admitted as such.

Lancer is the easiest read in the game followed by Archer, it’s part of why Moon’s readslist is so awkward.

I feel like you need to be more skeptical of people than just seeing the first layer of an onion and being like, "yup, that's all there is"

[Servant Beast]

You disagree with their conclusion that you're scum?

[Servant Beast]

You guess?

[Servant Beast]

ngl, every time Archer posts I want to tease them relentlessly for their shoe-string rationales.
Jokes on me if they're scum tho.

[Servant Beast]

Based on what you've said and done and based on what Saber has said and done.
You can infer which player is a better choice to get the grail.

Town leader not withstanding.

[Servant Beast]

ngl, every time Archer posts I want to tease them relentlessly for their shoe-string rationales.
Jokes on me if they're scum tho.

What is this supposed to mean?

I'm saying they're super opinionated and make a lot of assumptions, they're also pretty clumsy with word choice. Their thinking is messy and seems pretty gut based. If they're town.

[Servant Beast]

They're also fairly agenda driven and they have a clearish trejectory but their reasoning is so weird that while I can see where they're going I don't really get why they're going there.
I mean, did you read where he said we should assume they're all equally good mech choices? Why in the world would you assume that in a game with roles that have extremely distinct abilities.

[Servant Beast]

I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.

[Servant Beast]

I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.

Name names.

You first.

[Servant Beast]

I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.

I haven't directly stated my role...

I'm aware.

I was using claim in the non-mafia sense.

[Servant Beast]

I believe the broad assertion that:

1. Your ability is powerful.
2. That you'll do your best.

Can't ask for more and there are players that I think would do worse.

I'm actually only town reading Saber, Me, and lancer right now. I'm pretty conservative and skeptical. But I don't have any serious scum reads unfortunately. I don't see any red flags.

Besides Rider joining this game and not being enthusiastic. That's just confusing tbh.

[Servant Beast]

Me

Lol. Ok.

Quit trollin' you know you love being here. Or else you'd have left already.

[Servant Beast]

Quit trollin' you know you love being here. Or else you'd have left already.

I just thought it was funny that you townread yourself.

You should already know your own alignment, right?

Oh you.

[Servant Beast]

Saber, I genuinely doubt anything I could say would convince them about what cereal they should eat tomorrow let alone get them to go all in on another person.

They just need to reach their own conclusions if they're town and I'd be wasting my time if they were scum.

[Servant Beast]

Alter is another player that is very clearly not the type to listen to others. They're off solvin' and that's fine if detrimental and unlikely to be very accurate.

[Servant Beast]

I am excited to see their wall posts though. I can tell they're a waller.

[Servant Beast]

You seem very critical of everyone else. Why is that?

I'm fairly critical of myself and I don't really get why you think you should get this grail over another town player who comes off as pretty genuine. You're colder and harder to read.

[Servant Beast]

Saber, Berserker, Assassin.

When you're scum hunting would you say you identify scum more often than average?

[Servant Beast]

You prefer collaborating with people you get along with. Those were your own words.

[Servant Beast]

If I think Saber is town, but I'm not so sure about others how exactly is that incongruous? did you think that through?
Anybody less town than saber is suspect to me. Just because I can't say that one and that one is scum doesn't mean I can't read the traffic and think "yeah, I don't think the scum team wants this guy to get he grail"

[Servant Beast]

You prefer collaborating with people you get along with. Those were your own words.

Now you're just trying to be an asshole by twisting my words. I'm not sure what the point of it is supposed to be.

Please don't call other people assholes.

[Servant Beast]

I think you're forward and clear and genuine. I think you're relatively easier to read and I don't see an agenda.
You've twice pointed to people that voted you and said "they could be scum" when you need their support to benefit the town.
It's earnest and I think you've been forthright with every player you spoken with.

[Servant Beast]

If you guys all think you're above average. None of you are.

[Servant Beast]

That was a math joke.

[Servant Beast]

My initial impression of moon cancer was that their reads were too controversial to come from scum. But it wasn't a strong feeling.

[Servant Beast]

It is not a response, it is my opinion. Idk what is your problem

The simplest interpretation is that they're trying to read you. You're a problem that they wish to solve

That wall post post by Archer when you closely read it isn't actually that reassuring though I like the time line and internal thinking written out loud and think it's a very nice touch if they're scum.

[Servant Beast]

Avenger, I'm pretty sure if you read that again you'll note that they're saying you're more likely to be town by claiming miller on your first post.

[Servant Beast]

I'm pretty sure that actually, I misread their intent and your interpretation of their intent makes more sense in context. That looks like supporting evidence on second look.

@Foreigner. Sorry could you reword that? I don't understand what you're referring to.

[Servant Beast]

Maybe I was unclear on your phrasing (and in mine). I thought you were saying “I prefer Saber because there has been no resistance to Berserker” and that felt strange given the resistance I had from Beast and caster. But instead, it seems you are saying “Why was Saber not voted, where is this resistance coming from” and I don’t have any other arguments other than those I’ve already made, and the fact that people seem to be townreading me more than Saber/believe I would do better in the leadership position.

Caster is probably town tho.
And I'm town.

So there's no scum resistance to your wagon. Or if there is it's either subtle. Or Caster is scum.

[Servant Beast]

I didn't think you had implied that.
I was just pointing out that if there's resistance to you there isn't much resistance from the scum team.

I hope so too, in regards to alter's wall post, but I also am pretty leery of carefully manufactured posts.

I'm not a very hard read, so if you're town you'll sort me correctly eventually.

[Servant Beast]

1. I'm pointing out that the traffic or meta data is such that there is no scum resistance to Berserkers wagon. Me being wishy washy about my reads has already been admited by myself. I'm not confident in playrs I have, nor will I be forced to make a decision on who I think is scum before I feel I've seen something that is pretty scummy.
2. Gunna ask again. Please refrain from calling people assholes. I have not insulted you. If you have a problem with your own word choice then choose your words more carefully.

[Servant Beast]

Also, alter given you've refused largely to give reads yourself and you've done similarly to ruler, I don't think you're really arguing in good faith. You ask for others what you aren't willing to give yourself.

[Servant Beast]

I've been fairly responsive and been willing to answer any questions directed at me and I've answered them to the best of my ability.

[Servant Beast]

Woops. I meant Moon cancer, not ruler.
Ruler has kind of the opposite issue.

[Servant Beast]

I'm putting foreigner into the clumsy with words camp. Not as an insult but because I'm either really bad at interpreting what he means or he's not saying what he means with his selection of subjects in a grammatical sense.

[Servant Beast]

1. I'm pointing out that the traffic or meta data is such that there is no scum resistance to Berserkers wagon. Me being wishy washy about my reads has already been admited by myself. I'm not confident in playrs I have, nor will I be forced to make a decision on who I think is scum before I feel I've seen something that is pretty scummy.
2. Gunna ask again. Please refrain from calling people assholes. I have not insulted you. If you have a problem with your own word choice then choose your words more carefully.

So I'm supposed to take self-admittance of wishy-washyness as town? No, I just think you want to vaguely shade people, but can't back it up with any substance. It's exceedingly superficial. You keep going on about how you have no strong reads, but are hardly taking any steps to rectify that. Just making snide comments instead.

You've directed meaningless snark at me as well as Archer. You're playing like a prick and then act wounded and offended because I dared to call you on what you're doing.

Also, alter given you've refused largely to give reads yourself and you've done similarly to ruler, I don't think you're really arguing in good faith. You ask for others what you aren't willing to give yourself.

I've given plenty of reads if you bothered to actually read my posts and take inference from what I was saying. I was only playing closed off to start the game. The fact that you're accusing me of such makes me feel like you aren't attempting to read me in good faith or are even paying attention to my posts.

1. I don't believe I said that, I'm simply telling you my perspective. I disagree with the superficiality, I simply don't try to fill in additional detail to get town read. It's more effort that I really need. I could be all "ahah, you've contradicted yourself here, and here" but I don't really think you catch scum more often than town with a general approach of hunting for hypocrites. You can of course identify contradictions that are AI. But I'm not really seeing much of that so far either.
2. Do you really think it's daring to insult someone?
3. I'm not acting wounded though. I'm pointing out that you're insulting me. But I haven't insulted you and you continue to do so. If you feel you've been personally attacked because you said you'd rather have Berserker in the chair because you think you'd get along with them better. Take it up with the mods or drop it. I also haven't insulted Archer, I've been teasing them, which is quite different.
4. You want me to take inference to figure out your reads? I am paying attention to your posts.

[Servant Beast]

I'm putting foreigner into the clumsy with words camp. Not as an insult but because I'm either really bad at interpreting what he means or he's not saying what he means with his selection of subjects in a grammatical sense.

Oh look, another post where Beast avoids saying anything actually meaningful about the person they're talking about.

1. This is both passive aggressive and mocking. I put that down because it helps correct for idiosyncrasies when reading a particular player's posts.

[Servant Beast]

1. It addresses your question. You asked me if you should be town reading me and I said, I didn't say that. I don't really expect you to either. I'm not particularly worried about getting eliminated. I pretty much never do when I'm town. Because the more people post the more content and the more detailed my reads and interpretations get.
2. Sure. I don't agree that those were the posts that induced your rage and I do think you're aware of that. I also agree that we should drop it as that's pretty much what I said when I asked you to take it up with the mod if you felt insulted.
3. I remain pretty sure I'm paying attention, or else I'm really good at predicting what you're going to say and writing responses to posts I'm not reading.

[Servant Beast]

Yeah, Beast's just scum who's engaging in wordplay to avoid addressing me. I'm done here.

You got me.

[Servant Beast]

I disagree with Ruler that Alter is scum. I could be wrong though.

[Servant Beast]

I disagree with Ruler that Alter is scum. I could be wrong though.

Can you clarify what this means?

I don't really think they'd get this mad if they were scum. I've been burned by this before, some players on this site weaponize emotions. But for now I feel okay with it and will just keep an eye.

Yeah, Beast's just scum who's engaging in wordplay to avoid addressing me. I'm done here.

I am concerned Beast was buddying me as well. I asked him twice to elaborate on his townread of me and got crickets.

I think the first time you asked me this I gave you crickets, the second time you asked me I thought you were asking me to convince berserker to shift votes on you, but I felt like I wasn't going to convince them of that.

The third time I did answer you.

@Berserker, I said ruler, but I mean moon cancer. Let me look at he rest of your post and just answer it separately.

[Servant Beast]

Like I said, I said ruler, but I meant Moon cancer.

[Servant Beast]

And beast?

My big concern is there have been several people expressing concern over your reads, and such a rapid flip without detailed explanation into it seems rather opportunistic. For instance, which reads that ruler gave did you find the strongest? You said that your reasons to scumread me were incorrect but have not explained what it is that made you townread me. Why is Ruler conditional on the flips of Saber and Foreigner?

Side note, I’m at M-2. Speak now or hold your piece.

308 This offer sounded genuine to me. It's possibly performative, but I've made offers like this in the past as town.

I like your egocentric approach to the resistance on your wagon in 391, rather I rarely see it come from scum.

I'm not sure what you mean by rapid shifts.
To me the game is relatively young and there isn't much information to work with so new data results in heavier shifts in reads. Could you explain what you mean by opportunistic? Do you mean that you think I'm town reading you in hopes that you don't lead a wagon on me when you're an IC?

I already spoke. I still think Saber is the better choice.

[Servant Beast]

It should be noted hat all 3 of the people pushing for the grail position have been relatively good at being assertive and not very gunshy. I'd be somewhat surprised if any of them turned out to be scum tbh. I think this is just another game where scum have decided to be on the peripheral than to fight for the spot.

[Servant Beast]

Did you ever layout that review of saber btw? I missed it on reiso of you.

[Servant Beast]

As a frequently wrong alt guesser,
why are you forming reads based on your alt guesses?
The odds of you being correct on any one alt guess is pretty low.

But sure, they could be good scum.

[Servant Beast]

Well, I'm ready to move on and review after the flip.

Does everyone want to wait for shielder to be replaced first? as far as I know there's a line of replacements waiting so it won't take as long as it might.

[Servant Beast]

Why do you think they're town rider? My brain is sending me mixed messages about them being very open and they seem confident they can be sorted and I'm just sitting here wondering why I can't.

[Servant Beast]

^^ Evil mod. Prove me wrong.

@Rider, I don't know. Their first post feels like they reached the right conclusions long before it was cool to do so. Even though, arguably they just towned everybody who posted a lot.

[Servant Beast]

Meh, I'll read the game over again tomorrow morning with a cooler head hopefully. Beast out.

[Servant Beast]

If you're scum and you did this color me impressed. Let me know when you'd like to advance the game

If it helps, I also think Shielder is town.

[Servant Beast]

Actually it sounds like you're ready to advance the game.

Sure, I am too.

VOTE: Servant Berserker You're probably not the best choice mechanically, but at least you're either town or you put effort into stuff that literally won't matter in a few minutes and I'll take comfort in knowing that at least I voted town or got rid of scum that would have absolutely decimated us.

[Servant Beast]

Fingers crossed.

Why are you crossing your fingers?

@Lancer: I've always wanted to say this: It's a secret~

[Servant Beast]

I was given a role PM. with my main account, but no game start pm there, only on beast. But Cabd has my discord and I was bugging him about when it started so he just directly messaged me when it did.

[Servant Beast]

Message received.

[Servant Beast]

Prefer:
1. Rider.
2. Alter.

Don't want to elim.
1. Saber.
2. Lancer.

[Servant Beast]

Gunna add archer to the prefer pile.

[Servant Beast]

2. Alter: Too much omgus.
3. Archer: Not enough omgus.

Only thing that wiggles me about lancer was a condescending comment. Condescending scum is a thing. But I can do it as town too. It's a little challenging when I can read it as either "here's my actual reason, you doof" versus "here's my fake reason, you're a doof"
I'm having that feeling a lot as I read the game. My berserker read would be down grading if they hadn't already crossed the threshold into "why would they do this as scum?" I's something for me to keep in mind for me I think.

Caster has been fairly unique in that they were asking mechanical questions trying to adjust to the game, but I think they were relatively slower than others at understanding. I'm not actually sure if foreigner is as scummy as I originally thought based on their push against archer fairly early.

[Servant Beast]

2. Alter: Too much omgus.

What?

I disagree with Ruler that Alter is scum. I could be wrong though.

Can you clarify what this means?

I don't really think they'd get this mad if they were scum. I've been burned by this before, some players on this site weaponize emotions. But for now I feel okay with it and will just keep an eye.

3. Archer: Not enough omgus.

What?

I was baiting you to see how you'd respond. But you are actually being pretty clear about the omgus stuff. as evidenced by, who you wanna get rid of.
I think you're just trying to shut people down and using anger as a cover for it. Your analysis is fairly bog standard stuff. I don't see anything *unique* that I haven't heard before somewhere else or toward another person. Heck, I've used your own arguments about me being scum against other people before and been wrong.

[Servant Beast]

In other words, I changed my mind. I could be wrong though.
I just hope I'm right as it would make this game a lot less depressing.

[Servant Beast]

Me, alter, to a lesser extent saber.

Am I lying about your analysis being non-unique? You aren't disagreeing, you're just arguing about how that doesn't make you scum instead. I think town tend to have more of an imagination.

I'm not boxed in, if I were boxed in, I'd be shutting down.

@Archer, no. It's not that I don't agree though, I'm not really sure Caster is town or not. It's that I think you'd be more suspicious/omgusy as town toward people pushing you.

[Servant Beast]

That link to 374 brings me to the front page.

I see Archer. Thank you. That does make sense to me initially, I like self meta. Even though this is an alt game. I'll think on it.

[Servant Beast]

Do you have a notes PT archer?

[Servant Beast]

I retract the question.

[Servant Beast]

Am I lying about your analysis being non-unique? You aren't disagreeing, you're just arguing about how that doesn't make you scum instead. I think town tend to have more of an imagination.

I think that's a fucking idiotic heuristic that has no relevance to actually catching scum and you're flinging garbage at me to see if anything will stick. I think the way I think, and if scum is going to accuse me of that being

boring

, I don't give a shit.

I hope you aren't actually town and absolutely livid right now. Though, I don't know why you are mad at this point.

[Servant Beast]

My early reasons for not town reading Alter ego was that they was discussing mechanics and not generating any reads Lancer. This is something he himself agreed with and was even skeptical about why I was arguing that he was trying to get town read if he wasn't being very open with his reads. He argued that his position was one of watching and waiting. That was his initial stance. There's a lot to disagree with, in terms of my reads but I don't really think that the first 5 pages of my opinion of him was one of them. /:

[Servant Beast]

I'm just friendly Lancer. I get accused of buddying occasionally.

[Servant Beast]

Am I lying about your analysis being non-unique? You aren't disagreeing, you're just arguing about how that doesn't make you scum instead. I think town tend to have more of an imagination.

I think that's a fucking idiotic heuristic that has no relevance to actually catching scum and you're flinging garbage at me to see if anything will stick. I think the way I think, and if scum is going to accuse me of that being

boring

, I don't give a shit.

I genuinely can't tell if this is pissed off town or not. There comes a point where I have to ask myself would scum be this sensitive and I'm just not sure. *sigh* this site has really ruined my ability to empathize with people mid-game when it comes to anger and frustration especially.

I think your opinion that I'm trapped scum doesn't make sense. I don't feel trapped and I'm not scum. Why I don't feel trapped is a different question entirely. One best discussed if I ever get run up.
But for now, I do think you're *really* angry or you're *really* faking being angry and if you are angry just take a break.

[Servant Beast]

My early reasons for not town reading Alter ego was that they was discussing mechanics and not generating any reads Lancer. This is something he himself agreed with and was even skeptical about why I was arguing that he was trying to get town read if he wasn't being very open with his reads. He argued that his position was one of watching and waiting. That was his initial stance. There's a lot to disagree with, in terms of my reads but I don't really think that the first 5 pages of my opinion of him was one of them. /:

You're being clear and calculated. You're not saying who your town reads are nor are you justifying them. You're explaining your mindset to avoid being misconstrued.
I don't think every post you make is designed to help town and that wiggles me. Scum have an incentive to be town read and the earlier the better.
I'm null on you.

This is the post I was referring to

Let me break it down. Since I could see how it could be confusing given how muddled my thinking was when I was trying to express what I meant.

"You're not giving town reads, but you are talking about other stuff and you're not being obtuse about that other stuff" "I don't feel like every post you've made has come from a town motivation"

This is the part that I need to explain a little. I was saying that his emphasis on clarity and being understood in terms of their thought process could generate town reads. Often times in mafia (and really all of the time) we have to guess what someone's intentions are, but they took pains to remedy that by explaining themselves before people asked. What bothered me was that they wouldn't explain themselves when it came to reads, that part was obscured. They did explain why they weren't sharing their opinions in real time, but that but I didn't think their rationale really benefited the town any.

At the time I just thought it was off but I hadn't put together that they had only spoken about mechanics for the most part at the time.

But I'm sort of just not sure what you mean. I think there is a lot of objectionable things I've said, but I remain that saying that someone not giving reads off the cuff and asking why isn't really one of them.

@Beast, I'm a worrier, so it can be comforting when someone else seems to be demonstrably worrying. They denied that they were thinking about me getting banned for bringing up an alt guess. I'm not really sure what they meant by this.

[Servant Beast]

I think there are a lot of objectionable thoughts I've stated, but I don' think that asking why they weren't really giving off the cuff opinions on the game in terms of reads was one of them.
My brain is mush. I'm tired.

[Servant Beast]

Which post do you think I was talking about that shielder referenced? Do you know why it bothered me?

This question is open to the general public as well.

Yes, I am deeply suspicious of all their posts. They are very suspicious and I suspect them.

[Servant Beast]

Yeah, her simultaneously being aware and unaware of what's going on in recent times seems too convenient for me. Good catch.

Yes, good catch AE, Berserker. I'm really impressed.

[Servant Beast]

I see you're done trying to pretend you care about solving at all and are just hurling empty provocations.

Relax.

[Servant Beast]

You're taking this deadly seriously. I don't know what is going on in your personal life. But I don't want to cause you more misery than whatever it is you're going through as it appears to be more than enough for one person to handle already.

I'm done being antagonistic. I just know Shielder is town.
My role PM said so.

[Servant Beast]

This is an awkward moment. but I will try to say this in an appropriately delicate fashion: my theory had been that Ruler was seeking to discredit Saber out of fear. I was clearly incorrect in that assessment. I need some time to reconsider.

I'll try to catch up more fully when I'm feeling less stressed

.

[Servant Beast]

You're taking this deadly seriously. I don't know what is going on in your personal life. But I don't want to cause you more misery than whatever it is you're going through as it appears to be more than enough for one person to handle already.

I say you're not solving and are trying to provoke me. You respond by insinuating my life must be miserable because I'm scumreading your utterly pointless antagonism. Go fuck yourself.

I'm stepping away from this.

[Servant Beast]

VOTE: Shielder

[Servant Beast]

Really, I cannot get over how vile it is for Beast to say something like that about me because

I dared to scumread them in a mafia game.

It's just disgusting behavior that serves absolutely no purpose other than to demean and degrade. The site used to be full of people like this, that only really cared about themselves and held other players in complete contempt, but I thought it had gotten better with time. I guess not.

To my genuine knowledge, I didn't even know you were scum reading me until about half way through the game. So that's not right.

[Servant Beast]

This feeling will pass as all of them do.
The complaint about the website community really doesn't have anything to do with me. I just suddenly feel like I'm in the mall and someone spit on the floor of some clothing store because the staff or something crossed them.

[Servant Beast]

In fact we should elect Beast. He made the most posts. If he flips town then we can use his vocality to lead and if he flips scum then scum loses the most influential player.

I hope this is a joke post

@Foreigner, are you role playing? In regards to being a foreigner who speaks English as a second language I mean. I feel like I've been reading too deeply into your posts. Your focus seems pretty evenly distributed.

@Archer, I think it's a joke based on their sense of humor. Then again, they have been arguing that the one with the most activity should be mastered, but I took that as a tongue in cheek thing.

@Pedit: I mostly just put rider in there because they hadn't said or done much. It's a pressure thing in the absence of real scum reads that aren't extremely conflicted.

[Servant Beast]

I very much do not like the direction that the conversation between Beast and Alter is taking. Since neither are currently in the running for Master, I don't think that there is much harm in the two of you avoiding talking about the other for a bit.

Sure. I can do this for awhile. I don't like it either.

[Servant Beast]

Ok I mean I think that is like generally Fine but POEing on a low-content slot tends to feel like scum couldn’t find good traction or figure out how to naturally scumread elsewhere and I also think I remember that it usually flips town

That is a hypothesis in need of work shopping. In my experience results have been all over the place. It depends on the town, the type of game, what the lurker is doing etc.

[Servant Beast]

Alright, I’ll bite. What is it about this town/game/slot that made you think Rider could be POE-scum and not LHF?

Often, scum just put their buddies into the POE and just find better votes. Especially if they can't find an excuse to town read them. It depends on the scum team tho. Rider being surprised they don't have more scum reads is town pingy tho.

[Servant Beast]

I think it's cute that Caster just wanted to find

the one

~
though sometimes scum wax lyrical in lieu of better things to do.

[Servant Beast]

VOTE: Berserker

I've been ready for awhile.

I do think this was an excellent troll if berserker is scum and they just tried to drag everything out of everyone before peacing out. 10/10 would get fooled again.

[Servant Beast]

I think the simple difference Caster is that Berserker has the patience, desire, and experience to get what they want. I don't really think modeling expectations of what town do and scum do off the fly is going to result in accuracy. Or at least, it has never worked for me. Though a lot of people have used Cabd's words of what scum *should* do versus what scum would actually do.

[Servant Beast]

Depends on who the scum are, what they want, how they want to get it, their experience level, what they think the best course of action is and what they're emotionally comfortable doing.

[Servant Beast]

In my view, good town players are good town players regardless if they're IC's or not.

The optimal play is to pick the most mechanically powerful role with an excellent chance of being town.
Scum have arguably prevented this.

It's not a draw, in my opinion. We won this phase. But I prefer the ideal to the good. I don't think we're at risk of choosing scum this round. But I do think this phase of the game has ended and we just need to go forward with what we know.

[Servant Beast]

Just based off of players like Cabd and flavorleaf, I don't really think that's true. It's beyond my skill level. But I can see the edges a little. Or I have a partially detached retina. Either or.

But enough about memes!

Onward. Someone Hammer Berserker. Please.

[Servant Beast]

Yes let's go.

[Servant Beast]

Feel better.

[Servant Beast]

Don't mind if I do.

[Servant Beast]

I'm not terribly worried. I think it was a genuine misplay to let themselves get nommed if they're scum.

[Servant Beast]

I don't think Berserker is. I just can't obvtown when I need to.

May I back pat you, or is that buddying.

[Servant Beast]

VOTE: Cabd

[Servant Beast]

sorry, I guess

I got lazy and just didn't give full consideration to what caster was saying because I felt like this was happening no matter what and the game was falling into an apathetic state

So I kind of just rolled with it hoping I was right

I shouldn't have done it and I feel terrible for freezing out my townread here

This is a town reaction.

I agree. I was wrong. Sorry Alter.

[Servant Beast]

Lancer's kind of sucked.

Otherwise everyone looked fine to me. Or at least, I couldn't tell.

[Servant Beast]

Assassin looks better.

[Servant Beast]

They shouldn't be eliminated at all. Even if I were scum, lying about it just before day 1 even started is a hell of an act to commit to. I don't have the spoons for that.

[Servant Beast]

Yep. The sarcasm was just a crumb for later. I dropped it because you said I was being needlessly antagonistic and I realized that it wasn't well thought out.

[Servant Beast]

I was sad when I realized they were gunna be an inactive slot. So I had nothing to push out the gate or use to develop reads on.
You can iso me. I mentioned shielder once before that. though I also think on my flip it'll just out right say they're town in the role pm that's released.

[Servant Beast]

I'm sure the scum team has some real bullshit to counter it. This is Cabd we're talking about.

[Servant Beast]

Town: Beast, Alter, Archer, Assassin, Berserker, Shielder(6)


Not sure: Foreigner, Avenger, Rider, Moon cancer. Ruler, Saber, Lancer, Caster (8)

[Servant Beast]

VOTE: Foreigner

[Servant Beast]

It doesn’t have to be a wall, just more specific than “this is a town post. This is a scum post” because as is, playing like an enigma has you in the hot seat.

Is this to me?

[Servant Beast]

I do need reasons for your scum reads when you have the time Ruler.

[Servant Beast]

Right after i gave correct call, i am being voted. Scum is trying to prevent us from talking about moon by coordinating few votes against me. People always talk about topic, which recently got few votes normally it would be moon but scum gave counter measure.

Why would timing be so perfect? In case i am being pushed by townies, they reason of me being voted would have to be my vote on Moon. Still townies would say something like 'Foreigner votes is scummy' during vote. Naked votes are votes for overall image, so they are coming right now because people needed to vote me.

This is a self-serving narrative. Though yeah, I kind of felt like your vote was a bus.

[Servant Beast]

Well, yeah. I had an agenda. I thought Saber was town and had a powerful ability that would be put to good use. I also could empathize with their approach to trying to get the town master slot.
I don't get why you think people are throwing town reads around like candy. It's more like we just don't really explain ourselves. I do that in part because it can put the scum team off balance (or, I'm just scum and have no reasons, teehee)

Rider's post is interesting but need to think on it a lot more to determine if that's coming from town or scum. I'm allergic to long form, well thought out posts. For example I can't tell if Rider is truly weighing my posts and intentions, or going back and forth and just waiting to see where the wind blows before settling down.

As for foreigner, I've just looked at their posts and I find it odd how evenly distributed their addresses to other players are, the general lack of nuance and a confidence that doesn't make sense to me.

[Servant Beast]

I don't really get the implications toward me and Saber either. Are you saying that I'm scum with Saber and was trying to push his wagon through? That seems unlikely scum rarely have the guts for that.

[Servant Beast]

I will hit on this further later.

later? when?

I’ve already brought up that I’m immune to investigations and think that’s weird in conjunction with the claims on the table.

It's not that weird, but be careful when making assumptions about balance.
Also scum could have a role cop or something.

[Servant Beast]

As for foreigner, I've just looked at their posts and I find it odd how evenly distributed their addresses to other players are, the general lack of nuance and a confidence that doesn't make sense to me.

If you are not confident then you won't get analyzable reactions. People are more AI when under pressure.

I'm not sold that this is the real reason.

[Servant Beast]

Nice posts Ruler. Not being sarcastic.

[Servant Beast]

Addressing this, "why didn't beast play "their shielder knowledge some otherway. " approach.

Shielder did give information on interest for master, they said they "weren't against" it. Given their activity and Berserker's position and my own, I found it pretty unlikely that I could push through a shield er position, I also feel I waited enough, Just because Shielder was largely absent doesn't mean I was planning to just lurk until they showed up. I had opinions and I pushed my opinions. I could very well have been wrong on Saber, but I don't know that. I was also content just letting shielder be under the radar. For mechanical reasons and also because it allowed me to see who pushed the lurker slot. I had no way of knowing that Shielder could look town or not because they hadn't posed yet. I was keeping track of the finger pointing in their direction however. I think only two players did, Alter and one other player. Ultimately they didn't do anything with it, so I didn't know what to make of it either.

But sure I could have played it more optimally I guess by...getting them elected? somehow. In retrospect I'm not even sure that would be a good idea because I already know they're town and the grail wouldn't help sort them in retrospect. I already explained why I just outed them as town, I was crumbing and I didn't want to hurt alter's feelings anymore if they were being legit so I just explained it. It wasn't a very optimal move from a win condition perspective, but I'm not really made of stone either. And no I don't blame Alter for me revealing that, it was just a poorly thought out way to crumb.

[Servant Beast]

Agree. Gunna avoid that mine field by not commenting on it beyond just slapping Ruler with a town read.

[Servant Beast]

Then - I don't like that 801 seems designed to make us question Berserker's judgement

I think this is probably more frustration on Foreigner's part and related to him suspecting Caster this game (see 627, 677, 798).

You don't need to defend a slot to push another slot, you know.

[Servant Beast]

You're arguing that foreigner's comment was frustration related and not scum related while voting moon cancer.

[Servant Beast]

No. Archer said Foreigner's comment was designed to make us question Berserker's judgement. I disagree and believe he made that comment because he may have been frustrated with the way his scumread (Caster) was being treated by Berserker. 801 was also a direct response to my 799, which was me questioning his 798.

Nowhere did I mention whether I believed that comment was town- or scum-motivated

.

I also happen to be voting Moon Cancer. The two are unrelated.

If I really wanted to defend someone, I would actually

defend

them.

I don't really think you can have two unrelated opinions about a player in a mafia game. Since it's pretty closely intertwined. But the wording isn't quite there for a clear argument that foreigner is town, so I'm wrong in that aspect.

Place me in the camp where 1v1 toxicity isn't actually a good reason to run for Master. Toxic 1v1's can and do resolve. Sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse.

Also, pretty sure that some scum roles would have their abilities adjusted just because the designer rarely has every possible combination in mind for balance. They likely tweeked town roles and scum roles for balance post alignment roll.

[Servant Beast]

Shielder did give information on interest for master, they said they "weren't against" it.

Where did I say this...

I'm not really buying that Saber thought his power was the best mechanically.

VOTE: Saber
That's E-2

Huh, I can't find it. I guess I hallucinated it. Oh well. If you didn't bring up interest, then you didn't bring up interest

[Servant Beast]

Eh, I still really think Foreigner is scum.

[Servant Beast]

I already explained why I chose that particular moment to reveal.

[Servant Beast]

I already explained why I felt there was a reason to do so.

[Servant Beast]

Yes. Which I why I explained I wasn't trying to be a butt in that particular instance.

[Servant Beast]

Why out over just ceasing with the provoking comments?

Because that would have added another point to the pointless antagonism score card.

[Servant Beast]

I've already admitted it wasn't an optimal play from a mechanical perspective.

[Servant Beast]

I’m really struggling to understand your pov on this

Sure. Maybe.

[Servant Beast]

You could be struggling to understand this.
Or their could be a reason you don't want to resolve this with an "oh, okay, I guess you're town that doesn't act consistently"

[Servant Beast]

I's not like I haven't been on the other side of this conversation as scum where I dig deep as more of a performance than as a means of resolution.

[Servant Beast]

So you’ve gone from an early/strong townread on me to somehow reading possible scum motivation behind me trying to understand something that doesn’t make sense and you even admitted to not being optimal

ok

Yes, somehow my reads have developed over time and some players have risen into town reads, others have fallen.

[Servant Beast]

Why out over just ceasing with the provoking comments?

Because that would have added another point to the pointless antagonism score card.

Stopping with the antagonism doesn’t sound to me like it would have added anything to the antagonism score card. Because that’s the whole point of stopping the antagonism.

I was attempting to remove a point from the score card. This is a misinterpretation.

[Servant Beast]

So you’ve gone from an early/strong townread on me to somehow reading possible scum motivation behind me trying to understand something that doesn’t make sense and you even admitted to not being optimal

ok

Yes, somehow my reads have developed over time and some players have risen into town reads, others have fallen.

Or maybe you realized buddying me wasn’t working and it wasn’t getting you towncred with anyone else either

Uh, if I were scum and I wanted to buddy somebody I don't think it'd be you this game.

@Shielder, okay.

[Servant Beast]

Why out over just ceasing with the provoking comments?

Because that would have added another point to the pointless antagonism score card.

Stopping with the antagonism doesn’t sound to me like it would have added anything to the antagonism score card. Because that’s the whole point of stopping the antagonism.

I was attempting to remove a point from the score card. This is a misinterpretation.

Explain how I’m misinterpreting what you said.

I asked, why would you choose to out instead of deciding not to antagonize alter anymore?
You said “that” (which is surely not referring to outing unless you’re saying you deliberately outed in order to antagonize alter further, so must refer to “not antagonizing alter”) would increase antagonism. ??

Have I started antagonizing them more after that point?
I'm stating I wanted to remove some of the points of antagonism. I can both stop antagonizing someone and start treating existing wounds. They're not mutually exclusive.

[Servant Beast]

There is probably something significant about foreigner and saber both voting moon cancer and then both becoming the counterwagons to moon cancer but I don’t yet know what that means

Most likely that Moon Cancer is straight up scum.

I was hoping to find questions or things that would actually sort me. If I could claim my identity, people would see why my behaviors made sense. I feel that I am fighting with one hand tied behind my back since one of the FoSes on me was based on my identity.

I did accidently crumb my NP in a few places, but no one seems to doubt that. So providing that is just spam.

So shrug. I am going to brag a little instead. I self published a book. I don't believe I have mentioned this on MS so...

https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Walkers-Hel ... B084M83FTV

It's about a woman who finds a magical suit, gets abucted and winds up finding love with the enemy warrior princess.

Am I on planet earth right now.

[Servant Beast]

The part of your thought process that I’m trying to understand is, given the option of simply not antagonizing alter which is always available and costs nothing and reveals no information and solves the situation just fine on its own, why would you instead choose to out Shielder, after repeatedly telling everyone not to give unnecessary information?

And none of your responses have given me an understanding of this choice

At best, you just don't comprehend it. Rather than choosing not to.

What is this “existing wounds”?

the pointless anagonism in which I was sarcastically congratulating them on finding a scummy post from someone who wasn't scum. That was the crumb.

[Servant Beast]

Yes and me trying to explain it and wondering if you really are trying to understand it or not. Have you really not been questioned by scum in a focused manner before? Surely you can understand my skepticism.

[Servant Beast]

I'm saying that town contradict themselves all the time, that just because I say, hey guys don't give out information unnecessarily means I'm incapable of doing so.
I'm not made of stone and I'm not perfectly rational. As scum I tend to be more rational if anything.

[Servant Beast]

I don’t really care how you read me, I think it’s not very believable but that’s not really relevant. I’m more concerned with actually getting an answer from you that I can vibe with but you kind of seem intent on not giving me that and accusing me of misinterpreting you when I don’t know what other possible interpretation there was to what you said.

A better player would be able to read this post and figure out the player's alignment from it.

[Servant Beast]

You're missing the idea that because I transgressed again and pissed Alter off that I wanted to remove that additional weight of pissed offness by revealing my full intent with the post.

[Servant Beast]

I'm saying that town contradict themselves all the time, that just because I say, hey guys don't give out information unnecessarily means I'm incapable of doing so.
I'm not made of stone and I'm not perfectly rational. As scum I tend to be more rational if anything.

What about the rest of my question?

Please specify the rest of your question.

[Servant Beast]

1000.

[Servant Beast]

O...kay then.

Feel better Lancer.

[Servant Beast]

I don’t really care how you read me, I think it’s not very believable but that’s not really relevant. I’m more concerned with actually getting an answer from you that I can vibe with but you kind of seem intent on not giving me that and accusing me of misinterpreting you when I don’t know what other possible interpretation there was to what you said.

I'm going to quote this for posterity. @othertown, what do you think of this post?

@Lancer, sorry you're frustrated. I just think of grievances as being on a sliding scale and past a certain point I feel like the priority becomes to remove grief. I felt I had added oo much to the pile and just did whatever I could even if anti-town to remove some of i.

[Servant Beast]

Also, just as a general request, I'd prefer if I wasn't another casualty to the "must be one scum, one town pairing" fallacy.

[Servant Beast]

*pokes shielder* There's no real way to answer that. Sometimes we see things or misreads things and that's really all there is to it.

[Servant Beast]

The last, and only, specific reason to scumread Alter came from post 238. I don't find it convincing. How has that read matured over time and what specific posts can you point to as to support your conclusions?

That read has not changed. It is fully based on the early posts on Alter Ego having more evasive words in their posts than any normal townie. And no post of Alter Ego after that time has caused me to reconsider.

I think we have gotten everything we could have before the first elimination. We should move on.

Wasn’t I pretty evasive in my answers too? What’s the difference between alter and I in terms of this?

I’d still rather go for foreigner I think. Rather than saber. I Don’t like thinking this way, but I have doubt there because they qualify for the too weird to be scum read. I should probably think more deeply about this.

[Servant Beast]

@avenger, would you claim Miller as scum? No meta. Just on a personal level. Do you think that as scum you would claim Miller out the gate?

[Servant Beast]

Is there some reason you're not responding to my posts but pretty much everyone else's? Is it not interesting or worth commenting on?

[Servant Beast]

That's fine. I'm just wondering if you're working on false associations for later if you get flipped.

[Servant Beast]

Not really, sometimes people can react in ways that give the game away if you just confront them about it.
I don't really think that happened here. Or at least, it's not obvious.

[Servant Beast]

Sure, Berserker. Do you want me to vote Saber?

[Servant Beast]

VOTE: Saber

[Servant Beast]

Ah man, there was a gladiator action. Let me catch up.

[Servant Beast]

This is a very unfortunate time to be busy with stuff.

@Berserker @Shielder, tell me who to vote and I'll sheep.

[Servant Beast]

This is a very unfortunate time to be busy with stuff.

@Berserker @Shielder, tell me who to vote and I'll sheep.

so it doesn't get lost.

[Servant Beast]

This is a very unfortunate time to be busy with stuff.

@Berserker @Shielder, tell me who to vote and I'll sheep.

so it doesn't get lost.

[Servant Beast]

I believe gladiator's can cancel their ability, I'm not sure if every gladiator can do that or if this was a unique mechanic where the name was revealed as a consequence in exchange for the ability to cancel.

Avenger can still be a scum miller, but his flavor is very spot on so I'm not sure they lied about anything.

[Servant Beast]

They would just come up as guilty.

[Servant Beast]

e-6

[Servant Beast]

I don't like the wagon composition on Moon cancer.

That's pretty much my only objection.

[Servant Beast]

Well, that and their reads are pretty divergent which I associate with town.

[Servant Beast]

VOTE: Moon cancer

Hammer archer.

[Servant Beast]

They're divergent enough. imo. But we'll see.

[Servant Beast]

It's who isn't on the wagon.

Beast, Shielder, and Berserker weren't on the wagon which makes me anxious.

[Servant Beast]

As is ruler missing from the wagon, so probably at least 1+ scum bussing.

There is some comfort that foreigner, rider, and Avenger aren't on the wagon. But I suspect at least one of those players is town and someone slipped the lenient net.

[Servant Beast]

Can we wait for the flip before I have to answer that.

[Servant Beast]

Eh never mind, bad joke.
I felt the more people pushed at saber and the more focused down the more I looked the less substance was there and the less I understood them. Using past experience to argue that, actually, a silencer would be better than other roles in a 4 v 10 game was confidence I couldn't even pretend to relate to.

[Servant Beast]

To put it more simply, I just think they're lying about their NP and I'm one of them, eliminate all liars types.
In addition I felt pushing Saber would actually be more productive than pushing Mooncancer who seems largely immune to activity prompts.

[Servant Beast]

I do think it's possible that, that gladiate was meant to buffer foreigner's scum reads while perhaps simultaneously protecting saber/moon cancer.

It might have been unintentional though. I don't really know.

[Servant Beast]

I do think one of the things in favor of saber town is how they claimed more than what they claimed though. There was a sort of urgency to claim.
I couldn't help but feel that they might have been forcing nonchalance though. But that's just me being unsure.

[Servant Beast]

Not an urgency but a mixing of priorities is probably a better word. They didn't really stall their claim. Like bad scum might. They brought it up on their own initiative though I know that they were being voted and pressured. I'm not entirely clear on why it feels that way to me.

[Servant Beast]

Wait wait wait.
Did moon flip scum?