Newbie 1764: Wind Game Over

[Pepchoninga]

Howdy everybody hopefully this will be fun.

Seems like you like early pressure lynches, a?

[Pepchoninga]

I believe that what Accountant is doing is provoking people to show there true self. Questions in mafia are not asked for people to get answers but to see reactions. Ways they answer are hints to who they are. Tho this can also be used as a great protection. Xe almost talks like all his actions till this point are all made in the benefit of town. While other members are showing some motives and are even demonstating there playstyles, Accountant is being calm and collected, asking questions and then leaving them at that, without taking actions or persuing people who he belives are not town to further pressure them.

FoS: Accountant

Also I think it was you who asked me if I like early pressure lynches. Here is my answer: It depends. When I play in a new enviorment like this, with people I do not know, I mostly like to not take actions till I get the flow of the game and get to actually know a the people I'm playing with a little bit.

About bandwagoning. This is a term that was constantly used to point mafia in my first games of mafia on another not dedicated to mafia forum. Bandwagoning too fast and without trying to give your thoughts on why exactly you think a certain person deserves your vote could be suspicious. If you bandwagon with reason then it's not a bad thing. In fact is a winning move for Town.

[Pepchoninga]

I read accountant scum initially for the same reasons as pepchoninga and I want to say it's a sheep but I don't think it's the case. It feels too obvious a sheep when the only (what I think is) substantial scum read given was from me and his scum read seems to be almost identical. The reason why I think it might not be a sheep (and this is the way I'm leaning for now) is that near the bottom of post 82,

I believe that what Accountant is doing is provoking people to show there true self. Questions in mafia are not asked for people to get answers but to see reactions. Ways they answer are hints to who they are. Tho this can also be used as a great protection. Xe almost talks like all his actions till this point are all made in the benefit of town. While other members are showing some motives and are even demonstating there playstyles, Accountant is being calm and collected, asking questions and then leaving them at that, without taking actions or persuing people who he belives are not town to further pressure them.

FoS: Accountant

Also I think it was you who asked me if I like early pressure lynches. Here is my answer: It depends. When I play in a new enviorment like this, with people I do not know, I mostly like to not take actions till I get the flow of the game and get to actually know a the people I'm playing with a little bit.

About bandwagoning. This is a term that was constantly used to point mafia in my first games of mafia on another not dedicated to mafia forum. Bandwagoning too fast and without trying to give your thoughts on why exactly you think a certain person deserves your vote could be suspicious. If you bandwagon with reason then it's not a bad thing. In fact is a winning move for Town.

he says "also I think it was you who asked me" which shows that he's probably just skimming through the thread and not really paying attention to exactly what is being said. I feel like he probably just saw accountant's name pop up the most in posts and just read through those posts and decided to make a stance on accountant's alignment. So for now, I lightly town lean on pepchoninga because I think that his thoughts are coming from a towny mind set since I thought the same things.[/quote]

I have skimmed some of the posts but I have paid enough attention to know what is happening on the other fronts of the game. I moved in on Accountant since he did seem to be the most active and eager the get every information posible while his passiveness contributed to him trying to protect his alliance. In my first game I played with a player who had a similar game plan and ended being the godfather and shadowing our thoughts for most of the game. This is one of the soul purposes I don't belive in this playing style.

I will admit I have not been as active in the discussion and will try to change that.

[Pepchoninga]

While Ramicus's playing style really does seem like a scared townie who is being aggressive and cocky (and I hate this way of playing) I'm still not biting on him being town. You say people give false accusations on you, yet you have only really gone against the people that actually question your allegiance. Why?

[Pepchoninga]

By alliance I mean either Town or Scum Accountant.

Well, you say if you are not gonna help me scum hunt then don't stay in my way. I haven't seen you do any scum hunting yet. And in mafia you need to provoke people to say something to go after. That's why it's good to ask questions. you can't expect everybody to be like "Hey, I'm gonna say something scummy so you can after me". This is mostly done in the early beginning of the game or the RVS stage as you call it or whatever (not really good with the terminology in mafia still lol). After that it is a game of who is better at gathering evidence and using them to your advantage and helping your faction goals.

Also saying you are a prime target for Night 1 kill is not something I belive a town in your situation would say. Furthermore I would like to ask you why are you seeming so aggressive if you are not scared? Is this a game plan, or just your personality?

Last let me point out that if Accountant is holding back just because he is an IC, well this is dumb. Isn't the ICs job to help us get better at the game, by explaining things and giving his best in the game? He can do both imo. We are playing a game of mafia and even tho this is a newbie game where most of us are new or at least relatively new, I belive everybody should be playing like they usually do. Nydushermain pointed out that in another Accountant game his playing style was simular but not as passive. This is what is bothering me.

[Pepchoninga]

I'm sorry for not being as active as I should be. I will read on everything (You sure don't make it easy on me) and will try and give my thoughts.

[Pepchoninga]

I believe that what Accountant is doing is provoking people to show there true self. Questions in mafia are not asked for people to get answers but to see reactions. Ways they answer are hints to who they are. Tho this can also be used as a great protection. Xe almost talks like all his actions till this point are all made in the benefit of town. While other members are showing some motives and are even demonstating there playstyles, Accountant is being calm and collected, asking questions and then leaving them at that, without taking actions or persuing people who he belives are not town to further pressure them.

FoS: Accountant

Has Accountant's posts 69 and 83 eased your suspicions or "FoS" on Accountant in any way? Why/why not?

I will have to say yes and no. While his post 83 did seem convinsing enough, post 69 definetely seems to come from a criminal mind. He still tryis to balance it with his neutral playing but this tendency to analyze everything in the way he does in still not giving me good vibes.

[Pepchoninga]

Show me where Pepchoninga agreed with your posts about me being scum because I said "mafia" instead of "they".

I didn't agree with xim on anything tbh. I did give a simular opinion to xis tho. I belive you passivness and overall neutral behaviur comes from a well collected scum thinking. Is this enough to listen to nydushermain? No, since xim wanting me to jump on a waggon with him has something suspicious too.

Show me where Pepchoninga agreed with your posts about me being scum because I said "mafia" instead of "they".

He didn't agree for that reason, but your passiveness.

I agree on this part. I will also add that what I see in the posts Accountant writes after the dig that nydushermain did on xis previous games shows a big change in playstyle. Xe seems much more agressive and this get me to the question - Why? You said that when you get a strong scumread you become more aggressive. Is this the case with nydushermain at the time where those posts were made since I'm yet to read furhter? Or have you gone to a more offensive style since you know that you have more people on your side and it's a good time to try and eliminate the only person that actively goes against you?

is it bussing Pepchonga? Cause me and Carloux too accused Accountant early in game, yet you ignored that fact and say on Pepchonga scumread Accountant, hence i never said i changed my mind on Accountant, i still don't trust, but i rather go in end game with Accountant than DBW, Pepchonga or other lurker

For the record I'm not a lurker. You my friends need to see that this is a game where a mafia day is 2 weeks. Just because some of us don't post 50 times a day doesn't make us lurkers. At least not all of us. Also why would you like this to happen? If you are mafia playing with lurkers might be easier fo you to get the win for your faction during late game, wouldn't it?

[Pepchoninga]

If we continue this way, we end up with 9 townies in here, since seems everyone is town in this game So maybe start suggesting lynch targets, not just defending everyone, and i say that to all, cause deadline is coming, and i still don't like Nys, nothing make sense to me from town POV, he changes his position all the time, first he say we shouldn't lynch DBW (ignoring me and Charloux clearly stating we just want DBW talk, not lynch), going same even after i explain several times we not going lynch DBW, and he was lining lynches there, after he agreed and said both mafia are in 3 lurking people (weird statement from town), he's case on Accountant make no sense, something he found in other Accountant game, and we should now go and find that game, cause he didn't said what was different in that game from other 9 Accountant town games, and why here it's similar to that scum game, he inconsistent in all he do, yes, he said he changes his minds all time, but he was holding on DBW lynch idea so hard despite telling him no one is going lynch

Honestly, just your first sentence seems scummy...

[Pepchoninga]

Hopefully I'm not too late and will not be removed from the game lol. Again sorry for not being as active I just had some health problems.

[Pepchoninga]

If we continue this way, we end up with 9 townies in here, since seems everyone is town in this game So maybe start suggesting lynch targets, not just defending everyone, and i say that to all, cause deadline is coming, and i still don't like Nys, nothing make sense to me from town POV, he changes his position all the time, first he say we shouldn't lynch DBW (ignoring me and Charloux clearly stating we just want DBW talk, not lynch), going same even after i explain several times we not going lynch DBW, and he was lining lynches there, after he agreed and said both mafia are in 3 lurking people (weird statement from town), he's case on Accountant make no sense, something he found in other Accountant game, and we should now go and find that game, cause he didn't said what was different in that game from other 9 Accountant town games, and why here it's similar to that scum game, he inconsistent in all he do, yes, he said he changes his minds all time, but he was holding on DBW lynch idea so hard despite telling him no one is going lynch

Honestly, just your first sentence seems scummy...

better show me your scumhunting skills, since you told last time i haven't done any scumhunting, and that was a joke, and if you read tread, you may understand, or maybe not, probably you read already, but still have no idea what going on and where we are at this point...

Have you done any scumhunting? I might not be able to read tbh. Tho atm you are just disscusing Since I don't think I have actually questioned your scumhunting skills in my last post. I did ask a question that did not get answered. You go to the same stupid thing you asked me last time a asked you something.

[Pepchoninga]

Well, why should I, it seems you have everything under control

Now tell me are we going somewhere with this?

You can answer my questions or confirm my suspicions xD

[Pepchoninga]

I believe that what Accountant is doing is provoking people to show there true self. Questions in mafia are not asked for people to get answers but to see reactions. Ways they answer are hints to who they are. Tho this can also be used as a great protection. Xe almost talks like all his actions till this point are all made in the benefit of town. While other members are showing some motives and are even demonstating there playstyles, Accountant is being calm and collected, asking questions and then leaving them at that, without taking actions or persuing people who he belives are not town to further pressure them.

What is your definition of scumhunting and how do you go about it?
To me this seems like you don't want people to scumhunt, because asking questions is the easiest method to doing so.

Yes, dear old (not) friend (Don't take this as anything personal other people, I just know this little cracker and I'm mad he joined my game lol) I do want people to scumhunt. It's the only way to catch scum. Each person SH little or less (town or mafia). Tho the diffrence is what they do with the gathered information. I belive that Accountant didn't really do anything with the information. By his words he just got it so he can learn with the help of this information the alliance of people. When you read more you will see I'm not saying that since asking questions is the easiest way it should not be done or is considered scummy to me. I'm talking about the way he used the information to the benefit of town or his so called scumhunting. That is why I'm continuesly going against him.

[Pepchoninga]

I belive you passivness and overall neutral behaviur comes from a well collected scum thinking.

Why not a well-collected town thinking?

Because why would town play like that? You are already putting your name more then enough, since you have been the most active player till now and if you are town you are gonna be an obvious target. In your situation it would be more beneficial if you actually standed out and really started pushing every botton and going against every possible Scum. On the other side you could be mafia and deluding us of actualy doing anything by asking questions but in a sence not doing anything with the information you've gathered. And now after you see you have people that belive you, you started being a bit more offensive on Ny. Thats is what's concerning me. I don't see your clear Town persona that you are really trying to force on us.

[Pepchoninga]

I believe that what Accountant is doing is provoking people to show there true self. Questions in mafia are not asked for people to get answers but to see reactions. Ways they answer are hints to who they are. Tho this can also be used as a great protection. Xe almost talks like all his actions till this point are all made in the benefit of town. While other members are showing some motives and are even demonstating there playstyles, Accountant is being calm and collected, asking questions and then leaving them at that, without taking actions or persuing people who he belives are not town to further pressure them.

What is your definition of scumhunting and how do you go about it?
To me this seems like you don't want people to scumhunt, because asking questions is the easiest method to doing so.

Yes, dear old (not) friend (Don't take this as anything personal other people, I just know this little cracker and I'm mad he joined my game lol) I do want people to scumhunt. It's the only way to catch scum. Each person SH little or less (town or mafia). Tho the diffrence is what they do with the gathered information. I belive that Accountant didn't really do anything with the information. By his words he just got it so he can learn with the help of this information the alliance of people. When you read more you will see I'm not saying that since asking questions is the easiest way it should not be done or is considered scummy to me. I'm talking about the way he used the information to the benefit of town or his so called scumhunting. That is why I'm continuesly going against him.

Link me where you "continuously go against him" because I don't see it.

I haven't done much posts mostly due to health issues also due to me not really being able to really get into the disscussion. I am usually a pretty active players, reggardless of being Town or Mafia. I just like to get involved in the disscussion. Definetely not as much as you people apperantly want me to, but this is a difrent experience after all. Tho during almost all of my posts I have continuesly made statemesnts against Accountant. I would also like if somebody told me is there is anything specific I need to do to make the lynch like what you guys do, or is it automatic (sorry for the dumb question)

[Pepchoninga]

Dude, I try to catch to the 7 pages that Alidick spammed, and when I try to sumbit on a previous post I see that you have spammed even more and if I see something about me I respond and then go back and read again so I don't keep the disscussion relatively dead. It would be better if you waited for me to catch up and then start disscusing what I've said.

[Pepchoninga]

Gonna start multiquoting now. Forgot that was a feature.

I am in agreement with Ramcius here: mafia are usually very passive, I feel in Newbies especially. I've seen scum win by not putting themselves out there much. That's why I drive people to post sometimes by specifically hunting their activity.
That's quite a lot of words for one simple point. I definitely feel Ramcius is town currently for thinking similarly to me.

Pep, I'm lookin at you. At this point in the game you've been very passive. And I don't recall this being you. To me you seem unusually passive this game.

Last let me point out that if Accountant is holding back just because he is an IC, well this is dumb. Isn't the ICs job to help us get better at the game, by explaining things and giving his best in the game? He can do both imo. We are playing a game of mafia and even tho this is a newbie game where most of us are new or at least relatively new, I belive everybody should be playing like they usually do. Nydushermain pointed out that in another Accountant game his playing style was simular but not as passive. This is what is bothering me.

I feel as if scum!accountant would have to quote the Being a Good IC wiki thread "I expect a scum IC to teach correctly and also play to win - almost all the time that's just the smart play. The only difference being, really, that a scum IC will tend to teach things that are true and are sound, logical advice but also just happen, in this one specific case, to lower the town's chances of winning due to factors the town can't possibly know about; or else, the scum IC will give good pro-town advice, but then will use the trust he gets from the town from that good advice to lead the town on bad bandwagons until the town loses. Good scum play is generally very similar to good town play, as far as the uninformed observer can tell. - Yosarian2
As scum, I think you should be as helpful as possible without compromising your own ability to win the game. Play like you would if you were scum in a regular game, but explain all the things that we assume players in regular games would know and understand. If you're scum, it's very important to sit down after the game and explain anything you omitted during the course of the game.... [Y]ou shouldn't purposefully give bad advice on how to play the game, because that turns people away when they find out you screwed them over like that just to win a newbie game when you're supposed to be helping them. - Mastermind of Sin"

By alliance I mean either Town or Scum Accountant.

Well, you say if you are not gonna help me scum hunt then don't stay in my way. I haven't seen you do any scum hunting yet. And in mafia you need to provoke people to say something to go after. That's why it's good to ask questions. you can't expect everybody to be like "Hey, I'm gonna say something scummy so you can after me". This is mostly done in the early beginning of the game or the RVS stage as you call it or whatever (not really good with the terminology in mafia still lol). After that it is a game of who is better at gathering evidence and using them to your advantage and helping your faction goals.

Also saying you are a prime target for Night 1 kill is not something I belive a town in your situation would say. Furthermore I would like to ask you why are you seeming so aggressive if you are not scared? Is this a game plan, or just your personality?

Last let me point out that if Accountant is holding back just because he is an IC, well this is dumb. Isn't the ICs job to help us get better at the game, by explaining things and giving his best in the game? He can do both imo. We are playing a game of mafia and even tho this is a newbie game where most of us are new or at least relatively new, I belive everybody should be playing like they usually do. Nydushermain pointed out that in another Accountant game his playing style was simular but not as passive. This is what is bothering me.

You said i'm look scared, so i said i'm not, and gave reason why i'm not, it's just simple logic, i'm very vocal, and townread by people, so getting me lynched would be hard task for mafia, especially when game so stall, so yes, i'm prime target, and announcing it i play WIFOM on mafia kill tonight (in case we got doc).

Could you describe me scumhunting, so i would know what i supposed to do, since you say i haven't done it yet, i'll be grateful

Was it another newbie game, that Nyd mentioned? Cause i had impression it wasn't, and i'm not going compare IC actions in normal and newbie games

At this point, why haven't you voted Pep for misinterpreting what you are saying to try to make you look bad?

To quote number 1: I have already stated why I haven't been as active and you out of all people know ALL the reasons. I know you are suposed to ignore them, but yeah go to hell since you joined the game <3 I will bring this up. In a game where I was the godfather (and won) I was equaly as active as in the previous game where I was a townie. My game plan changed and I was much more collected and all that. But I was just as active. So yeah, I belive your argument on this a bit invalid.

To quote number 2: Alis you are just telling me a scum meta. Tho in this game we all know nobody follows only one meta. You are saying all this almost as if you are trying to protect Accountant and say that his playing is definetely not mafia like. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seemed like you wanted to convince me on just that.

Yo quote number 3: I would need you to explain me this since I don't really get it? How have I misinterpreting what he is saying?

[Pepchoninga]

My reads goes as follows.
Scum: Pep
Other potential scum: Nyd, DBW, Charloux
Town: Ramcius, Mewtaph, Accountant, myself.

Pep has been lurking up to this point. And you may think it's due to inactivity, but I doubt that. Like he's posting in gaps, and if he was town, he's someone I'd expect to be more active and vocal. He's moreso reserved and safe leading up to his posts today. Also he shows no interest in scumhunting.
Not having anyone voted at this point in time tells me you have no real scum reads. This also goes for DBW, who's also lurking, except I don't know them. Either way I see them as a potential partner.
I can see Charloux being paired up with Pep easily. Charloux goes after lurkers but ignores Pep. This seems off to me.
As for Nyd, I'm following Accountant's reasoning and logic moreso then Nyd's on Accountant. Or they could just both be town, which I see happening.

Your only real strong points are that I was innactive for a bit and that I'm not interested in scumhunting. Now let me tell ya, I am interested in scumhunting. Actually I'm trying to achieve that. Kinda hard when you can't really find a place in the disscussion till now. My prime targets till now were Accountatn and Ramicius. Two people you put as Town on your list. Yet you almost haven't touched on anything those 2 people have said till now. And there one of the most active people in the game till now. Most of the post I read from you are on my posts and going againt me. You have a personal agenta? Or you just want to get me out of the game as soon as possible since I'm gonna be the easiest target for you? Let me also point out that I hate when people just say that they are confirmed town in there opinion and put it like it's something normal. For me it's a veyr scummy move and one that should not be neglected. What makes you think you are a town?

[Pepchoninga]

Why are you so afraid of giving me a yes or no answer?

I will admit that refusing to answer is pretty suspicious.

[Pepchoninga]

Accountant, what are your reads? I think I asked you this already, but you kept on giving your attention to Nyd.

Ramcius and Mewtaph strong town, Alisae townlean, DBW, Pep and Gamma null, Charloux scumlean.

Why the null read on Pep?

Because he hasn't said anything indicative of alignment rather than newness to mafia.

I'm sorry but I will say I'm not completely new to mafia

[Pepchoninga]

I belive you passivness and overall neutral behaviur comes from a well collected scum thinking.

Why not a well-collected town thinking?

Because why would town play like that? You are already putting your name more then enough, since you have been the most active player till now and if you are town you are gonna be an obvious target. In your situation it would be more beneficial if you actually standed out and really started pushing every botton and going against every possible Scum. On the other side you could be mafia and deluding us of actualy doing anything by asking questions but in a sence not doing anything with the information you've gathered. And now after you see you have people that belive you, you started being a bit more offensive on Ny. Thats is what's concerning me. I don't see your clear Town persona that you are really trying to force on us.

That's factually incorrect. The three people mainly going against me were accountant, ramcius, and then alisae. Accountant voted on me first AND accused me first. So you can't say that accountant is scum for going on the offensive "after people started believing him" because he went on the offensive before that. I agree though that I think accountant is doing NOTHING with the information that he is gathering, or to be clearer, is refusing to take in the information.

No I mean he knew that people belived he was town, so he got more confident in going against you. It just seemed strange. From that point onward he has seemed more aggressive and does want to lynch you. I also cannot not see that Alis has almost not talked about Accountant and does seems to agree with everything he does and even tho he seems to have me for his prime target for absoulutely laughable reasons he goes against the target of Accountant. He does also start being cocky and being a bitch which for me has no place in a mafia game.

[Pepchoninga]

Also what? You've been reading this WHOLE time?

He's catching up and responding to earlier posts. I don't think he actually got to the part where I announced I catched up.

Odd because if he's catching up and responding to earlier posts, why is he reading the current thread? Doesn't really look like he's diving back in time.

I'm sorry, can you rephrase the question. Like, rephrase the question as if you were speaking to a toddler. This seems really confusing to me.

If he's looking back through the thread, and trying to catch up, I think it's interesting that he responded almost instantly to you calling him out. I think he might just be sitting back and waiting to see how the situation transpires. If he's really looking back and trying to catch up, and taking notes, etc., he shouldn't be constantly refreshing the current thread. He's lurking with a purpose.

Why are you assuming that he knew I called him out right away?
Also thats how I catch up. I posted my thoughts as I saw them.

@Pep

Code: Select all

[v]The Dude's name[/v]
[vote]dude's name[/vote]
[b]VOTE: dude's name[/b]

Thank you for that, it will definetely come in handy ^6

[Pepchoninga]

VOTE: Nys

You say you would lynch DBW, but you not voting him yet, you said you would hammer, if there was 4th vote, but ignore Alisa saying same few posts ago, so who stopped you do 4th and Alisa hammer? You talk much, but i can't see any actual town motivation in your actions, and i'm not conf bias on you, i pointed things i didn't liked in you, yet instead of explaining, you tried dodge with "town can do it too, not just scum", now OMGUS on Alisa not makes you look good at all

Pep, i'm still waiting you start doing your glorious scumhunt, we hear so much, yet we have to see, and if you forgot, it was you, who attacked me, not other way, so don't pretend offended now

You have read me wrong the whole time. What I accused you and why I SR you was because you acted like you are above everything and you are either gonna get help and support from everybody because you are obviously town or you are gonna be the worst enemy everybody had. And in the same time I didn't saw you do anything to actually deduce you prime targets. What you did imo was just attack everybody that questioned you. This was brought up other people if im not mistaken too.

Another thing for me to have my suspicions on you is that after I accused ou of what I did you just accused me of the same question and acted cocky without trying to change my mind or show me or anything. I just dislike this style of play and would just like a more nice and clear person to communicate regardless of your faction.

[Pepchoninga]

Agreed with the last sentence. I refrained from calling him a bitch but the cat's out of the bag now.

Again, apologies.

But either way, the fact that I am buddying Accountant is a legimate theory. I mean, if he flipped scum, then I'm surely fucked.
But right now I'm being cocky because I genunely think I found scum. Nyd just seems to be flailing at this point.

I do agree that there are stuff that you can go on from nyd, but what you are doing atm is you are just double teaming on him and he is obviously gonna fall under pressure. Tho his reaction doesn't seem scummy in the slightest to me. He was clearly frustrated and this a town action definetely. I would like to hear some of the other players opinion on this too tho.

[Pepchoninga]

Why are you so afraid of giving me a yes or no answer?

I will admit that refusing to answer is pretty suspicious.

Did I not answer? Do you really believe that I didn't give an answer to the question he asked??

You haven't given him a clear answer. If you think he is leaning to scum, you answer should still be scum. If you say town, then you are basically either super dumb or confirmed mafia. So this question was important and is really why they are going against you. And tbh, even tho I have my points to still think you are a pretty sure town, in the end you not answering this question could be desisive for my lynch as well.

[Pepchoninga]

My reads goes as follows.
Scum: Pep
Other potential scum: Nyd, DBW, Charloux
Town: Ramcius, Mewtaph, Accountant, myself.

Pep has been lurking up to this point. And you may think it's due to inactivity, but I doubt that. Like he's posting in gaps, and if he was town, he's someone I'd expect to be more active and vocal. He's moreso reserved and safe leading up to his posts today. Also he shows no interest in scumhunting.
Not having anyone voted at this point in time tells me you have no real scum reads. This also goes for DBW, who's also lurking, except I don't know them. Either way I see them as a potential partner.
I can see Charloux being paired up with Pep easily. Charloux goes after lurkers but ignores Pep. This seems off to me.
As for Nyd, I'm following Accountant's reasoning and logic moreso then Nyd's on Accountant. Or they could just both be town, which I see happening.

Your only real strong points are that I was innactive for a bit and that I'm not interested in scumhunting. Now let me tell ya, I am interested in scumhunting. Actually I'm trying to achieve that. Kinda hard when you can't really find a place in the disscussion till now. My prime targets till now were Accountatn and Ramicius. Two people you put as Town on your list. Yet you almost haven't touched on anything those 2 people have said till now. And there one of the most active people in the game till now. Most of the post I read from you are on my posts and going againt me. You have a personal agenta? Or you just want to get me out of the game as soon as possible since I'm gonna be the easiest target for you? Let me also point out that I hate when people just say that they are confirmed town in there opinion and put it like it's something normal. For me it's a veyr scummy move and one that should not be neglected. What makes you think you are a town?

You not voting should also be considered a valid point.
You have shown nothing to prove that you are scumhunting, and currently you're just defending yourself.
What about Ramicius seemed scummy to you?
I think your scum, and I want the town to win? That's sorta what I'm trying to do here.

And you're reading my reads wrong. You wanna know a tell I recently just learned? Scum trying to push things that aren't slips. Because scum LOVE having a justified vote. Saying that I am slipping for reading them as confirmed town is a mistake, becuase I am not reading them as confirmed town, I am reading them as I think they are town.

And what makes me think I'm town? My role pm.

Who should I vote in this situation? You? Accountant? Ramicus or Ny? Should I jump on the waggon or try and go against my targets. Will I get the support needed and will people agree with my suspicions? You know those are all questions I need to answer myself and get other people to answer some of them before I put my real lynch. But for now I will go with a lynch that my heart tell me.

VOTE: Alisae

And yes I am curently scumhinting also I'm defneding myself since you are only going against me. You haven't defended against my accusations tho. Don't think it's very townish to avoid my suspicions.
I did make a post basically saying why I Scum read Ramicius.
I didn't really understand what you meant with the next one buddy but ok.
And what makes me not belive you? You not being able to show me that pm

[Pepchoninga]

I belive that Accountant didn't really do anything with the information.

What about my push on ny?

I belive my too many post may have been too many. I did say in one of them that I belive after you were sure that people belived you are town you started going agianst the person who was most actively pushing on you. And that was Ny. There was a clear change in the way you play after he brang you old games and started giving some decent-ish arguments from there but off course you can't really judge from past games since this is to some extent unproffesional. No you are clearly looking more confident and aggressive towards him. Why the change in playing in that current time.

[Pepchoninga]

It is, but as said I'm not really talking about the fact your scumread on him became stronger. It's about the timing. You could've started it a bit later or even a bit earlier if you asked me. Now you got it after Ramicius said that he thinks what Ny did was dumb. It just seemed to me that you were waiting to be sure you had protection from other players. You also seemed much more confident when allisae started backing you up too. Also the way you double teamed on Ny seemeds like a scum duo made in heaven.

[Pepchoninga]

Pep, I'm just gonna interpret that as an OMGUS vote. Also the fact that I'm not defending myself from your accusations makes me think you're even more scummy then you already are. Who says I have to defend myself if I think scum is attacking me?
And instead of voting me, you could be civil and coperative and give me the reasons instead of making me ISO you for it.
And generally most people include themselves as town. That's just natural and good play.

What are you talking about? Why wouldn't you defend yourself? What if he's town? This is anti-town if you are town FYI. You're so blinded that you replace into a game, skim through a few posts and call someone scum and instead of trying to refute a point that someone makes against you, you just call them scummy and say nothing? You're ACTUALLY avoiding the question with zero answer, not a half answer like mine apparently.

Honestly I find this post as a plus for ny not because he is protecting me, but mostly because you can see his pure frustration which is made out of a pure town mindset.

[Pepchoninga]

No I'm not overeacting. But we are making such a big deal since nys didn't answer a question which I admit has truth to it, but you think that it is more then well to not try and counter my accusation? Why is that?
My vote is is not OMGUS. I have my suspicions on me. Gonna explain them again since clearly you weren't paying enough attention.

First you came in and started going trough posts. Most of the were either pointless in my opinion or post directly against me. During several pages you were just trying to collect enough arguments to get a solid reason to lynch me. Didn't you say that is exactly what mafia liked. But yet, you couldn't really get solid reasons since I hadn't given enough material to work on till then. All you could do was line up that since I wasn't active enough and I usually am, I'm definetely scum. Also me apperantly not scumhunting is also making me scum. Okay tell me what if I don't necessarily scumhunt. Then I'm 100% scum? What If I'm gathering information about the people who are more active and then like what I did come in and start a push against them? Yes, this is not exactly what happened with me, since reasons I have explained but still it is a possibility. Also for me a good scum will definetely be scumhunting since it is good for his discuise. His goal will obviously be to get a misslynch on Town but this doesn't change the fact he is scum. So having me not scumhunting as one of your leading arguments for a lynch is also dumb. Your next argument is that I haven't lynched anybody yet? Even if I didn't lynch you it's again pretty dumb argument.

On the other side you didn't say anything on Accountant. You just instantly became his best partner and was even ready to give up on your personal target (me) to go after his which was already pretty pressured by Accountant (Ny). Even if Accountant is town this is pretty scummy since I'm more and more leaning on having ny as a sure town. Also you going all cocky on the guy after seing that he clearly got frustarted is just a really dissrespectfull and definetely not a town action.

This is why I lynched you. Overall I think I have a better base for a lynch then you

[Pepchoninga]

No Alis, a mafia wouldn't act like that. Even if they are a complete noob and you can see that Ny is not that. He is acting frustrated because he got double teamed and now you are basically going at him for every word he says. Sliping for me is just a normal thing after so much pressure. I can somewhat understand the pressure given by Accountant but your just give more food to my case on you.

I'm actully trying to find both things Ny did wrong and does right. Some things he does wrong are in his favor, some are not. Same with the things he does right. I question him on the things I think are off and I keep in mind the thing I think are in his benefit. In the end I stack them and see which will prevail. Till now I just see the things that are off beating his clear innocence at this time.

[Pepchoninga]

What I mean Alis is that you didn't say anything on him when you joined the game and started to analyze the situation till now. In fact you almost didn't say anything about anybody else other then me. At least anything out of importance.

[Pepchoninga]

Also what about me sounds odd Ny? I know yo are asleep but still...Is it that I'm not completely on your side or think you are completely innocent?

Also Gamma, Charloux I would like to hear your opinions on my lynch on Alis and his playing since he joined as a whole.

[Pepchoninga]

It is a he belive me. But still, I don't think it's wise to judge somebody from the previous person that played the role. Judg ethe things that Alis is doing.

[Pepchoninga]

I do understand you Charloux. Even tho I would love to lynch Alisae since I do see a lot of his action made out of pure cockiness I do see why you wouldn't do it.

I am asking for you to give opinions on the matter. If a lynch is done it should probably be on DBW since one less person is innactive is better.

But still, we are 21 pages in and you don't have any strong scumreads...this is strange. I would advise you to go ahead the posts once again if posible since you will get accused by people soon, just like Alis tryid to do with me.

[Pepchoninga]

Spoiler:

No I'm not overeacting. But we are making such a big deal since nys didn't answer a question which I admit has truth to it, but you think that it is more then well to not try and counter my accusation? Why is that?
My vote is is not OMGUS. I have my suspicions on me. Gonna explain them again since clearly you weren't paying enough attention.

First you came in and started going trough posts. Most of the were either pointless in my opinion or post directly against me. During several pages you were just trying to collect enough arguments to get a solid reason to lynch me. Didn't you say that is exactly what mafia liked. But yet, you couldn't really get solid reasons since I hadn't given enough material to work on till then. All you could do was line up that since I wasn't active enough and I usually am, I'm definetely scum. Also me apperantly not scumhunting is also making me scum. Okay tell me what if I don't necessarily scumhunt. Then I'm 100% scum? What If I'm gathering information about the people who are more active and then like what I did come in and start a push against them? Yes, this is not exactly what happened with me, since reasons I have explained but still it is a possibility. Also for me a good scum will definetely be scumhunting since it is good for his discuise. His goal will obviously be to get a misslynch on Town but this doesn't change the fact he is scum. So having me not scumhunting as one of your leading arguments for a lynch is also dumb. Your next argument is that I haven't lynched anybody yet? Even if I didn't lynch you it's again pretty dumb argument.

On the other side you didn't say anything on Accountant. You just instantly became his best partner and was even ready to give up on your personal target (me) to go after his which was already pretty pressured by Accountant (Ny). Even if Accountant is town this is pretty scummy since I'm more and more leaning on having ny as a sure town. Also you going all cocky on the guy after seing that he clearly got frustarted is just a really dissrespectfull and definetely not a town action.

This is why I lynched you. Overall I think I have a better base for a lynch then you

What's up with the past tense?

Honestly I'm not really a master of english as you might of seen by my grammar here and there so my use of past tense was probably not intentional since I just write what flows in my head withouth thinking what thought the time I'm writing in could trigger in people's minds. If you ask a specific thing I will try and answer tho.

[Pepchoninga]

If Accountant is scum, I would have no idea who his scum buddy would be.
If Nyd is scum, his partner would be pep.

Please point out pep/ny associations.

BTW Gamma, starting to think you're moreso town.

Pep is mostly defending nyd by attacking me.

You just make less and less sence dude...

Honestly I'm attacking you because you have given too much food. First you give shit evidence, then you hop on the wagon of the most active person and hope to fit with the town...

Honestly I belive that either you and Accountant are mafia, or on of you is. If you end up as town, Accountant is basically confirming being mafia tbh (off course this all depends on what he gives as an explanation on his sudden lynch on Alis).

All and all you are not even giving any solid defence or trying to convince anybody of your innocence...why?

[Pepchoninga]

You still think that acting like a certain town is helping you in any way? If anything I have learned so far is that a stubborn mafia is one that thinks that stalling will get them away from trouble. But for now I will just wait till Accountant give his thoughts on the lynch.

[Pepchoninga]

If you would please, read my posts again...I don't recall saying that Accountant is a confirmed mafia. I gave a possibility that if you are town he is most likely gonna be mafia imo. But on the other hand I'm almost sure you are not town, so I don't think I need to worry about the first option.

[Pepchoninga]

Not avoiding any question, bote ^^ I said I belive either you 2 are both the mafia (which was my initial thought), a thing that seeing Accountants action on deciding to lynch you seems highly unlikely, or one of you is - keep in mind this is only my thoughts.

So yeah, till Accountant gives his thoughts I ain't answering any more "stupid" questions (excuse the word but I found it most appropriate). Continueing to do so is a scum claim. A desperate one at that.

[Pepchoninga]

Would like to hear what feels off tho?

[Pepchoninga]

Your posting kinda feels like you are promoting false dichotomies.

How can one have false dichotmies tho? I am just giving my thoughts and who I think is who and with that tey to logically deduse what will happen if a certain person did a certain thing. Expalin how do you see this as something worth a lynch.

[Pepchoninga]

Also sometimes I recall having seen IoA in some of Pep's posts.

I don't care which one of my two targets gets lynched, as long as they do, because I believe they are both scum.
VOTE: Pepchoninga

Also bussing is common here.

It's funny how you vote me now that a wagon has been started. You don't vote me first so if wagon is not finished you are not an instant target and you also don't really go against the poeple acusing you for the same reason. You are trying to get yourself an immunity while only taking actions under the wings of somebody else so you can Be accused of anything. This is really the mindset of a scum.

[Pepchoninga]

I say that since till now I have both scumread them. They are my 2 prime scum targets so if one goes against the other I would logically (on a first thought without further discussion or evidence to make me change my opinion) think that one of them is town and one is mafia. After I see why Accountant think Alis deserves his lynch I will try and solve in my head who is tiwn and who is mafia. Or if I'm somehow convinced otherwise off course.

[Pepchoninga]

Also sometimes I recall having seen IoA in some of Pep's posts.

I don't care which one of my two targets gets lynched, as long as they do, because I believe they are both scum.
VOTE: Pepchoninga

Also bussing is common here.

It's funny how you vote me now that a wagon has been started. You don't vote me first so if wagon is not finished you are not an instant target and you also don't really go against the poeple acusing you for the same reason. You are trying to get yourself an immunity while only taking actions under the wings of somebody else so you can Be accused of anything. This is really the mindset of a scum.

That's not true and you know it. She's just joining her support.

Why isn't it true? You just came in and lynched me, while alis has been dealing with my offense for a long time and hasn't responded in any ways. His best leads on me are that I wasn't active and that I didn't vote for anybody for a time. I have gathered much more evidence in my opinion. And you don't seem to cosider this now or the first time I asked you.

[Pepchoninga]

Actually no, I'm not telling him to show me his PM, I'm telling him that using his PM as an argument is nonsense because HE CANNOT show it to us.

[Pepchoninga]

Oh so you come to my game just like that and now say I'm not a good enough treat for you to deal with? Like ignore the game I'm mad enough at you anyways, like suck it lol.

[Pepchoninga]

Yeah well, why am I scum? This is the question you cannot seem to answer for 7 pages lol

[Pepchoninga]

Gamma, why do you put Alis as town? What in his actions make you think he is so innocent?

[Pepchoninga]

Again most of those are just dumb really? Firstly I could've just putten random lynches like everybody else and it would still be practically the same because a lynch on DBW is basically that.

My posts prior to your attack are very little for you to judge on them and once again I will say I have more then good reason to not be as active also I didn't know at the time you could take brakes. I become more active before you joining the game.

I didn't overeat, I was just annoyed how you made a big fuss that Ny didn't respond to one of Accountants questions while you didn't answer to like 10 of mine. Your argument was that you though I was mafia. Well Ny thought the same thing about Accountant.

My verbal is completely off of the game, you jouning my game was something completely moral related especially after you were the one that kept pushing me to come and post more and all that. Youju St wanted to come here and enjoy lynching the hell out of me and this has been very clear to me since your first posts. From the beginning you have been laying the hammer on me. If anything you made this game obviously disscusting and its not because you go after me, but because you just joined without asking how would I feel.

[Pepchoninga]

Sorry Gaam would still like to hear it again.

[Pepchoninga]

I am going to sleep now, so yeah.

About not posting you can say all you want I can't make you belive me I am still ill and all that, what I can make you belive is I hadn't read almost anything till the time I really started to play more, till then I read the things and just wrote the first things that popped to mind which was against Aacountant and Ramicius.

Tell me if I ask you the same question that really now wouldn't matter, would you answer them? Now that you are sure you are out of danger and you have genuine support you won't be lynched? Because yes, it does seem like that. You are not open to anything you haven't made a single action without waiting for somebody to start the wagon you almost never say anything new or try and contribute in finding new things for town. No, you just follow in people's footsteps and do what they do and try to monitore them inti a misslynch. Exactly a mafia meta. Here is a question - explain to me why you think this is bullshit?

Yeah well maybe I would've reacted differently if I knew your alliance. If I was town it is more then normal for me to act like that. Frustrated since you are ruining my game in a sence you don't seem to appreciate at all. If I was mafia I wouldn't be so bothered since you are town and I probably wouldn't risk going in an argument with you seing that you were trying to go on me from the start. If we were partners we wouldn't be having this conversation, or at least not in this way.

[Pepchoninga]

And I just noticed that DBW only has 8 posts...This bothers me...A lot. I still want to stick with my day 1 lynch on Pep, but I'ma go re-evaluate him. Maybe Nyd is actually town. I need to re-evaluate these two.

Fun question:
Pep, DBW, Nyd. What do you three think of the other two on the list?

Well, about DBW I don't have a solid case. Like everybody I cannot not be suspicious of him for the soul part of his activity. While my innactivity was a fact too, I did try to make it up for the lost time. I was also almost removed due to inactivity. DBW seems to put little post from here and there and really he isn't touching on much. Everytime he posts he doesn't seem to watch to answer the questions asked to him by others and all he does is put a random lynch say a few words and go out. I still do belive he can't be my main lynch target without him giving us some clear answer.

Nyd is a null leaning to town for me. The way he gathered infirmation about Accountant at earlier stages of the game, just before accountant started being more aggressive are very townie minded. Some of his post were inconsistent and also very 2 minded, but also his frustration when you and Accountant started double teaming him, were words of town like frustration. Some of him not saying everything he thinks is not really town like but then again he does have a lot of points I have as well, so this makes me think henis more likely to be town.

[Pepchoninga]

Correct me if I'm wrong Alis but atm you are just trying waist time and try to get out of the situation with asking stupid mostly non-related questions. Why don't you actually make a defence or a strong case on me or Ny in this time?

[Pepchoninga]

No, but you are still really trying to make people belive you I think that since you don't anything really in your defence you are gonna try to make somebody else look scummyer and go against them. That is all. And that imo is stupid.

Here are your 2 questions answered.

[Pepchoninga]

Alis you are looking for a thing to lach on atm, I don't see why. You have definetely succeded in taking the disscusion away from you.

I will say Ny, that I'm not really defending you. What I do is analyze you get a possibility of what you allingment is and then use the attack of Accountant and Alise to determine who imo is more likely to be a scum since I still belive one of them is and that is for me is Alis.

You know bote it's funny how you talk abou buddying when you are basically the one who does this from when you joined the game. First you buddy the IC who had a strong offence on another active player in Ny, then you saw me who was going against you and exactly when Gamma lynched me you started buddying him. What it seems you are doing is trying to get to the better people in the game and eliminate the "newer" players from behind there backs.

[Pepchoninga]

Yeah but Gamma why would you vote me down? Am I really the biggest threat right now? Also I still don't belive your motives on the lynch are really good. Would still like you to re-read some of the stuff.

[Pepchoninga]

Basically from when I started going on Alis. So that means from page 18-19. Mostly analyze the way he reacts to everything I say against him.

[Pepchoninga]

No, I'm attacking you since all You've done excluding Ny's buddy wagon is write stuff about me.

And yes lol, you are buddying Gamma, read your stuff

[Pepchoninga]

Ramicius problem is Alis and as it seems Gamma too don't actually have any good leads on me. Alis just want to push for a mysslinch. Gamma is either just hopping on it to see what happens or is scum himself.

Also let me remind you I haven't defended Nyd and if I did it definitely wasn't a buddy request. If I defneded him it was to get a stronger case on you and/or Accountat. You are just trying to pull something out of fingers.

Also you talk about Gamma like you are the best buddies and fight crime together. Are YOU buddying him, or are you both crime buddies. Since it didn't seem like he wanted to latch to somebody the way you have seen from the start of the game.

[Pepchoninga]

How am I trying to get on Nyd good side? I have stated more then wnou time that while he is more of a town to me I don't support everything that he says nor do I like all of his actions and I have question him for those actions. Don't see how I'm buddying him like that.

You on the other side try and create banter with other people, talk for the both of you in first person (we) and don't question anything they have said or done or that they say or do. I'm focusing on you, since I don't see Gamma doing it given my null to town read on him.

[Pepchoninga]

Eh, actually you did, but I'm sorta still gonna ask you why do you think Pep is towner then I am?
Like, when you interacted with him he has blatantly admitted to not wanting to scumhunt himself and that he wanted to let you scumhunt for him.

Never said or did that. Our conversation was just provocative. We knew we are not getting anything useful from it. I belive I've done more then enough scum hunting now to suffice his suspension in that aspect.

[Pepchoninga]

Also Ram, another question.
Why would Scum!Alisae act as the voice of reason between Accountant and Nyd?

Did you? Last I saw you were trying real hard to get Nyd lynched cuz why not.

[Pepchoninga]

Also why would town Pep say this?

Yes, dear old (not) friend (Don't take this as anything personal other people, I just know this little cracker and I'm mad he joined my game lol)

This is completely non-game related. As you know I depise the very thought you are playing in my game like that. Belive me I've excluded my personal feelings opabout you for now. This post is irrelevant to the game.

[Pepchoninga]

Pep what are your reads?

Alisae - Scum
DBW - Potential Scum (mostly because he is lurking or not even considering playing the game anymore)
You - Scum leaning to null (Is that a thing?)
Ramicius - null leaning to Town
Chaloux - null leaning to Town
Gamma - null leaning to Scum
Mewtaw - Town

I think I missed one guy so if you see yourself just tell me and I will add you in.

[Pepchoninga]

Also why would town Pep say this?

Yes, dear old (not) friend (Don't take this as anything personal other people, I just know this little cracker and I'm mad he joined my game lol)

This is completely non-game related. As you know I depise the very thought you are playing in my game like that. Belive me I've excluded my personal feelings opabout you for now. This post is irrelevant to the game.

Feel like it would have been different you thought my slot was aligned with yours.

Would it be? I'm not so sure, this is a moral thing you know. I'm not here to win, this is not your stupid games at AKA. But enough of this.

[Pepchoninga]

Eh, actually you did, but I'm sorta still gonna ask you why do you think Pep is towner then I am?
Like, when you interacted with him he has blatantly admitted to not wanting to scumhunt himself and that he wanted to let you scumhunt for him.

Never said or did that.

Our conversation was just provocative. We knew we are not getting anything useful from it. I belive I've done more then enough scum hunting now to suffice his suspension in that aspect.

In response to Ram saying that Pep should scumhunt:

Well, why should I, it seems you have everything under control

I think you should improve your reading skills Alis. I said provocative. My "answer" was completely full of sarcasm and it is blantly obvious. I was asking a question and he decided not to answer it but to tease me with the same question. In the end I left the argument with tha post and scumread him for that time.

[Pepchoninga]

Oh yeah, Nyd is Town

[Pepchoninga]

My "answer" was completely full of sarcasm and it is blantly obvious.

Why is sarcasm pro-town again?

Sarcasm is not something that should consider either town or mafia.
Also it is the same way not answering questions you are asked.
Aaaaand, you are not the one to ask those questions, since you were the one that was being cocky and disrespectful to Nyd.

[Pepchoninga]

My "answer" was completely full of sarcasm and it is blantly obvious.

Why is sarcasm pro-town again?

Sarcasm is not something that should be consider either town or mafia.

Explain this.

Why should I? Isn't it obvious. Using sarcasm is not anti-town since it doesn't make sense.

[Pepchoninga]

Also dude your case on Nyd is kinda leading nowhere imo. You are more using it to get points against me.

Firstly Nyd was addressing only me since at the time I was the only one besides him to go after Accountant. Whatever it was I wasn't really wanting to hop in on his wagon even if I was active.

Actually me not hoping on that wagon is basically the one thing that completely kills your me and Nyd buddy scum theory that you have so desperately tryid to force on all of us.

[Pepchoninga]

Well Ramcius, you have 3 people to convince, and the deadline is 3 days from now. Good luck to you buddy

And here ladies and gentlemen is a clear cocky scum post. Bravo!

[Pepchoninga]

Ramicus I think you just have conf bias and you're just getting me distracted.
But if my lynch will get Pep and Nyd lynched, I'll fuckin take it.
Cuz they're my strongest scumreads.

You just seem like your here to ruin my game lol.

You still haven't given any good evidence on me and the ones on Nyd are questionable too.

[Pepchoninga]

Also Kyouko have you got any reads on the game or are you still catching up?

[Pepchoninga]

No, your are forcing peopel to get away from you and put pressure on me, it's a simple mafia routine.

[Pepchoninga]

ITS A HE FOR GOD DAMN SELF, ALISAE IS A HE!

Wow, sorry bout that, it's just really annoying.

No, lol, he is making try and see "reason", wo he can lynch me and get his prime targets. Cmon, you have to be blind to not see that.

[Pepchoninga]

I aksed Gamma to reread your IDO too...I don't think he did it. So why should Ramicius?

[Pepchoninga]

Why do you insist on Alisae being a he? Seems more like a she to me (sorry if I'm wrong btw)

Because I've know him for like a couple years more then you have, and he does like to change yournames. He has been names "bote" and "Dazo" and a 100 other this. Belive me, he is a he...

[Pepchoninga]

Pep I don't care about pronouns

Yeah but it's really a thing that pisses me off lol

[Pepchoninga]

That moment when you're writing a case on someone but then you accidentally go back a page and lose everything becuase that exact same button that makes you go back a page is your push-to-talk on discord. Fuckin Rip.
That unmotivates me, but I'll leave a taste here and go more indepth later.

A. Pep is not scumhunting, he wanted other people to do that. in 417 he says he wants people to scumhunt. Not specificly him, but people. This was also proven in Ram's interactions with Pep. Also when it came to scumhunting, he origonally fos'd Accountant on asking questions but then he says asking questions is the best way to scumhunt, which seems contradictory to me.
B. In RVS he didn't want to praticipate because he "didn't know the people." To me that just seems as if Pep didn't want to participate because in RVS scum are vulnerable. They want RVS to end as soon as possible.
C. As Gamma stated, he's promoting false dichotomies.
D. Pep says that he feels that I'm ruining his game, but what's strange about this is if Pep was town, why would I be ruining his game?
E. He's chainsawing Nyd.
F. He's saying that people are scummy for their playstyle.

Have fun with those until I come back on tomorrow. If anyone wants to add to this that thinks Pep is scummy, they are certainly welcome to.

I don't even know why you are still using half of these as solid arguments dude. Most of them have been counter-argumented by me and were left behind. You are using false info too. I don't recall doing F.

[Pepchoninga]

That moment when you're writing a case on someone but then you accidentally go back a page and lose everything becuase that exact same button that makes you go back a page is your push-to-talk on discord. Fuckin Rip.
That unmotivates me, but I'll leave a taste here and go more indepth later.

A. Pep is not scumhunting, he wanted other people to do that. in 417 he says he wants people to scumhunt. Not specificly him, but people. This was also proven in Ram's interactions with Pep. Also when it came to scumhunting, he origonally fos'd Accountant on asking questions but then he says asking questions is the best way to scumhunt, which seems contradictory to me.
B. In RVS he didn't want to praticipate because he "didn't know the people." To me that just seems as if Pep didn't want to participate because in RVS scum are vulnerable. They want RVS to end as soon as possible.
C. As Gamma stated, he's promoting false dichotomies.
D. Pep says that he feels that I'm ruining his game, but what's strange about this is if Pep was town, why would I be ruining his game?
E. He's chainsawing Nyd.
F. He's saying that people are scummy for their playstyle.

Have fun with those until I come back on tomorrow. If anyone wants to add to this that thinks Pep is scummy, they are certainly welcome to.

oh, i have fun, i really do

A. I'm not going to be involved in someone's ways of scumhunting, we all have different, and you stretching here
B. I didn't wanted participate in RVS too, i simply don't like that, doeas that makes me scum too?
C. Gamma, sure, and you use he's opinion? I guess so, since he agree with you on Pep, but i don't find him trustable, he don't have strong opinions, and he's reasonings to townread people are sketchy
D. Hm, maybe cause you try get him lynched and make defend himself all time, so he can't do much else? Just a guess of mine
E. Not gonna bother here
F. Where he said that?

i'm waiting real arguments that makes me see him as conf scum tomorrow then, cause case like this i could make on pretty much everyone here

Firstly, I don't even know why are all bitching about scumhunting even know, where you see I have a prime target and I'm pretty keen on hunting him. Only difference is I'm not trying to make people belive me or make them hop on my wagon.

C is a very week and shit argument by Gamma, no offense but I don't see how someone can be promoting false dichotomies. It's just a weird term and really dichotomies are up to people's way of reading the games and they are mostly strictly linked with the persons reads on the game. At least mine were. So again, bad and pretty false argument.

About D Ramicius you are almost right, but shit thing is I know this sucker and my problem is that what he did just wasn't morally correct. That's why he is ruining the game for me. Plus the fact that he has been going at me from thw moment he started playing. The biggest problem is he doesn't actually have good arguments and this post just proves it.

[Pepchoninga]

I don't see how I say that I scumread him for his playstyle. And even if I did, I don't see what's bad with that. A change in playstyles could be an indication for whether the player is scum or town.

[Pepchoninga]

Read more to form better statements since your's are always half right.

What I said is I FoSed him for asking questions but not doing anything with the information he gets. Asking questions is obviously one of the best ways to scumhunt but what is important is what you do with that information. THAT is one of the main reasons why I SRed him early on (Along with his passiveness overall)

[Pepchoninga]

THAT is one of the main reasons why I SRed him early on

(Along with his passiveness overall)

Also, if I am really wrong, you need to start proving that I am wrong instead of fucking just saying "he's wrong."
If they were really "left behind" or "countered" counter them again.

And the reason of this post was? No but seriously I answered all the things you said against me. Now you are bringing them again and expect me to give you the same answers because?

Also I answer the good parts of your acussation. Problem is you either bring up the same thing over and over or you come up with new things that don't make sence. Sorry if I'm being rude.

[Pepchoninga]

Yes, I am scumhunting. I also think you look enough like a scum, so I don't think I have anything to show people.

But I also have counted-argumented and I think pretty succsefully every major accusation you had to me, so I don't see how I'm doing the scumhunting wrong. If anything you are the one doing that.

[Pepchoninga]

Thanks for the clarification Kyouko seems like I wasn't good at expalining this to him lol

[Pepchoninga]

Well, I had an early scumread on Ramicius. But with time I stated he became more of a null and in recent time he a town IMO. As said the read was early and was mostly due to his hostile and very aggressive playstyle at the beggining. His change was well receved by everybody and was explainable.

Now my biggest targets are Alisae, Gamma and maybe Accountant a bit.

[Pepchoninga]

Let me ask you Nyd, why do you think Alieick is a towney? What, the way he didn't answer any of my accusations? The way he was buddying both Accountant and now Gamma just to try and get town cred? Or maybe the fact that he didn't really start any wagons by himself. You see mafia don't want to start wagons, so they don't get unnecessary attention, they just want to make people start a wagon on a person and the join in and feel more comfortable attacking. Or maybe a good point would be the way he cockily attacked you and your frustration? Excuse me for believing this is not a town action. The way he has tried to convince everybody that his wagon is right and everybody is wrong, also the way he tries to make people change there opinion on me so he can get me lynched. And since he doesn't have a good case on me he relies on manipulation, the main tool of scum. Also atm he is clearly trying to buddy you (trying to get on your good side so you can eventually put a lynch on me. And honestly those are not even all of my reasons to have started a wagon and Alisae and that's why I think this is the best lynch for the day. DBW is innactive so this means he will eventually get lynched or in the best case scenario if he is town, get killed by the mafia. Me? Well maybe if you ask me questions and get answers from me rather then listening to some of the nonsense Alidick is trying to push upon people's mouths you will get a better understanding of wether I'm town or mafia.

[Pepchoninga]

It's called a reaction test. Have you ever heard about it before?

i know what is reaction test, but i pointed out how inconsistent your play was, first you claim, cause scared of Nyd hammer, then you provoke him, and still i see no reason for your claim back then, you not getting lynched today, and that Accountant vote putting you on L-2 changed literally nothing, and for VI, look at mirror, your vendetta on Pep getting really disgusting

and for the record, since it's newby game, town do a lot slips too, but that don't mean we should ignore slips for that reason

I actually belive we should lynch him today, for reasons already stated. Also I do belive he is our best choice, even if DBW is mafia.

[Pepchoninga]

Kyouko would you like to put our lynch on a L-1? I belive reasons why the lynch is good have already been given in my previous couple of posts.

[Pepchoninga]

Sorry for my absence for the past day or so, but holidays are a dick to forum activity, at least mostly. Merry Christmas since it is already here where I live.

Will post more tomorrow, but for now gonna comment on some of the recent post from the last page.

[Pepchoninga]

Tbh I think pep needs an avatar. One of those players I've been waffling on, sends too many scummy and townie signals but lately he's seemed really town. Got work tomorrow and I'll be getting fucked up afterwards and probably passing out. Ram is a read I'm really sold on though and I think points raised on Alisae about provoking him seem solid. Would rather lynch this than a slot with no associations to speak of
VOTE: Alisae
L-1

Also talking about the PRs and setup after claiming VT looks really suspicious to me

Will be back before deadline like on my lunch tomorrow and maybe before bed after my friends leave my house, then in the morning within a couple hours of deadline

I do need a fucking avatar, but can't seem to find anything that is the right size. I would definitely put anything I see as an avatar, so if you have time go ahead and send me something, so it doesn't seem so strange when I post lol.

Also yeah, talking about setups seems like a desperate way to prove to us that he is town and can still game solve.

[Pepchoninga]

I'm on my phone. Please don't lynch Ali pleaseeeee at least novote if you don't think you'll be free for eta

Why are you so keen on not voting him? Cuz I don't think he's done anything for you to deserve this. If anything he was almost the reason for you to get lynched. Is this you revealing as a scum parthner? That's really the only way I could read that. Why don't you just lynch him? If you need reasons for that, there are more then plenty.

[Pepchoninga]

I think if I forget about the early game, Ramcius looks more and more scummy to me. I give the VI read only because of ONE post he made but I don't think it actually holds. The lynch on alisae is disgustingly bad. Going to christmas dinner. Don't. Hammer.

You trying to put our attention away from Ali? Why? Why have you suddenly became more protective towards him now that he is at L-1? Seems really strnage.

Honestly I thought that if anybody was to be Alisae's scum parthner it would be Gamma, but this is more then suspicious. Anyways, I belive Alisae should be our target, since the lynch on him has the most evidence from most members.

[Pepchoninga]

If you flip town I will get lynched the next day definitely. Tho if you flip town It will be completely my fault since I was the one who really pushed on you. But I'm more then sure in this decision and I hope everybody else is too.

[Pepchoninga]

Yet I'm not scum, so in the end you are the one loosing us the game.

Lynching yourself all the time isn't helping your case either dude.

[Pepchoninga]

You seem desperate to make us not close a lynch on him. I don't buy his case and call me stubborn, but I've read his ISO at least 3 times on different occasions. Arrogant and Cocky aren't things a towny should have in his arsenal tbh. At least not to the extent that he has done. He didn't stop you and accountant fight, he just thought it would be better to get everybody on me.

[Pepchoninga]

I think if I forget about the early game, Ramcius looks more and more scummy to me. I give the VI read only because of ONE post he made but I don't think it actually holds. The lynch on alisae is disgustingly bad. Going to christmas dinner. Don't. Hammer.

You trying to put our attention away from Ali? Why? Why have you suddenly became more protective towards him now that he is at L-1? Seems really strnage.

Honestly I thought that if anybody was to be Alisae's scum parthner it would be Gamma, but this is more then suspicious. Anyways, I belive Alisae should be our target, since the lynch on him has the most evidence from most members.

Because now he's actually lynchable... and dead -.-
Ali I even told you, if you convince a third I go on the pep wagon -.-

This doesn't answer my question in the slightest...honestly I don't know what to think about this...

[Pepchoninga]

Honestly guys, I'm as frustrated as everybody else...I will admit I did have somewhat of a personal agenta on Alis, since he did basically ruin my experience of the game, but I think the people that lynched him can confirm that there was more then enough reasons for me to do that. A wagon on me tho would really probably mean the end of the game for town.

[Pepchoninga]

Honestly I belive that my reads have changed a little.

I think that the possible scum are either Gamma, nyd and/or Accountant

[Pepchoninga]

Honestly guys, I'm as frustrated as everybody else...I will admit I did have somewhat of a personal agenta on Alis, since he did basically ruin my experience of the game, but I think the people that lynched him can confirm that there was more then enough reasons for me to do that. A wagon on me tho would really probably mean the end of the game for town.

Not really, unless you think you are THE ONLY ONE who has the scumteam found (which I hope you don't think that at this point). Also, how was your game ruined?

Personal reasons that I do not wish to talk off anymore and should not be included in the game really. If you want to understand what ruined my game to a big extend go look at some of my earlier posts.

[Pepchoninga]

nyd's reactions are strong frustrated town and difficult to fake. If you really believe that Pep you should be voting me or Gamma. Where does DBW stand in your view?

I will when I see a better view of the 2. Honestly Gamma disappearing for the end of Day 1 is quite suspicious to me, but you being posting much less when the action got hotter is not helping you in my eyes either.

Honestly I'm as frustrated about DBW as the next guy. I would like if he gets replaced or lynched. Tho I can't form a good opinion on somebody who really posted little to nothing.

[Pepchoninga]

You're going to have to explain, as you seem to be indicating it's about a past game yet you have no past games.

I've know Alis for a couple of years now and we keep contact on another forum. As I said if you so desperately wanna know anything about why I didn't enjoy the game after he joined you are free to look inpt up in my previous posts since I have no intention in bringing this up again or making it influence my gamw anymore.

[Pepchoninga]

Yeah, I do understand Christmas was a bad time for the deadline...you can say it tho. Like I'm sorry but I will answer your questions later on since I do have to visit some relatives.

[Pepchoninga]

My reads goes as follows.
Scum: Pep
Other potential scum: Nyd, DBW, Charloux
Town: Ramcius, Mewtaph, Accountant, myself.

Pep has been lurking up to this point. And you may think it's due to inactivity, but I doubt that. Like he's posting in gaps, and if he was town, he's someone I'd expect to be more active and vocal. He's moreso reserved and safe leading up to his posts today. Also he shows no interest in scumhunting.
Not having anyone voted at this point in time tells me you have no real scum reads. This also goes for DBW, who's also lurking, except I don't know them. Either way I see them as a potential partner.
I can see Charloux being paired up with Pep easily. Charloux goes after lurkers but ignores Pep. This seems off to me.
As for Nyd, I'm following Accountant's reasoning and logic moreso then Nyd's on Accountant. Or they could just both be town, which I see happening.

Your only real strong points are that I was innactive for a bit and that I'm not interested in scumhunting. Now let me tell ya, I am interested in scumhunting. Actually I'm trying to achieve that. Kinda hard when you can't really find a place in the disscussion till now. My prime targets till now were Accountatn and Ramicius. Two people you put as Town on your list. Yet you almost haven't touched on anything those 2 people have said till now. And there one of the most active people in the game till now. Most of the post I read from you are on my posts and going againt me. You have a personal agenta? Or you just want to get me out of the game as soon as possible since I'm gonna be the easiest target for you? Let me also point out that I hate when people just say that they are confirmed town in there opinion and put it like it's something normal. For me it's a veyr scummy move and one that should not be neglected. What makes you think you are a town?

Pep what are your reads?

Alisae - Scum
DBW - Potential Scum (mostly because he is lurking or not even considering playing the game anymore)
You - Scum leaning to null (Is that a thing?)
Ramicius - null leaning to Town
Chaloux - null leaning to Town
Gamma - null leaning to Scum
Mewtaw - Town

I think I missed one guy so if you see yourself just tell me and I will add you in.

Well, I had an early scumread on Ramicius. But with time I stated he became more of a null and in recent time he a town IMO. As said the read was early and was mostly due to his hostile and very aggressive playstyle at the beggining. His change was well receved by everybody and was explainable.

Now my biggest targets are Alisae, Gamma and maybe Accountant a bit.

Can you clarify how you went from ramcius as your top two scum to town? I don't quite understand your reasoning.

Oh yeah, Nyd is Town

Honestly I belive that my reads have changed a little.

I think that the possible scum are either Gamma, nyd and/or Accountant

How did you evolve from me being town to suddenly possible scum? One of the ways you read me was in the quote below:

Pep, I'm just gonna interpret that as an OMGUS vote. Also the fact that I'm not defending myself from your accusations makes me think you're even more scummy then you already are. Who says I have to defend myself if I think scum is attacking me?
And instead of voting me, you could be civil and coperative and give me the reasons instead of making me ISO you for it.
And generally most people include themselves as town. That's just natural and good play.

What are you talking about? Why wouldn't you defend yourself? What if he's town? This is anti-town if you are town FYI. You're so blinded that you replace into a game, skim through a few posts and call someone scum and instead of trying to refute a point that someone makes against you, you just call them scummy and say nothing? You're ACTUALLY avoiding the question with zero answer, not a half answer like mine apparently.

Honestly I find this post as a plus for ny not because he is protecting me, but mostly because you can see his pure frustration which is made out of a pure town mindset.

so you're saying you read me off "pure frustration" which is probably off tone (I'm assuming). Yet after the EoD, accountant who had been scum reading me for the majority of the game and ended up giving me a null read decided to read me town after my reaction. To me, that means that my reaction was townier than my reactions towards pressure, etc., so I feel like the way you're reading the game is inconsistent. I'd expect an even stronger town read out of you on me.

First on Ramicius. Now I don't think it isn't explained in the post previous to the ones your quoted, but the reason is simple. Ram was an early SR. I read him scum for his rather disrespectful behavior in the beginning and really angry comments most of the time. While I didn't get the most satisfying answer I also didn't have any real leads on him being scum. And with time I found people that I had some leads and I persuaded them. Obviously I was wrong but this doesn't change my reasoning.

I don't Really get what you mean by the second one. Your reaction was townie like and that is why you got a slight town read from me. Relly one action is enough to make yourself look like a different person. Those changes should be aknowledged as they are what helps us deduce who is who. I don't see how this makes my reading on the game inconsistent.

[Pepchoninga]

nyd's reactions are strong frustrated town and difficult to fake. If you really believe that Pep you should be voting me or Gamma. Where does DBW stand in your view?

I will when I see a better view of the 2. Honestly Gamma disappearing for the end of Day 1 is quite suspicious to me, but you being posting much less when the action got hotter is not helping you in my eyes either.

Honestly I'm as frustrated about DBW as the next guy. I would like if he gets replaced or lynched. Tho I can't form a good opinion on somebody who really posted little to nothing.

Wait, did you just eliminate nyd as one of your three strongest scumreads on the say-so of another strong scumread?

I don't think I have said so anywhere in here.

[Pepchoninga]

nyd's reactions are strong frustrated town and difficult to fake. If you really believe that Pep you should be voting me or Gamma. Where does DBW stand in your view?

I will when I see a better view of the 2.

Honestly Gamma disappearing for the end of Day 1 is quite suspicious to me

, but you being posting much less when the action got hotter is not helping you in my eyes either.

Honestly I'm as frustrated about DBW as the next guy. I would like if he gets replaced or lynched. Tho I can't form a good opinion on somebody who really posted little to nothing.

It was Christmas you fuck, btw

No need to be rude. I'm acknowledging that since you were protecting Alisae to an extent and then when you saw people were starting to lynch him you disappeared. This after his flip to town seems rather suspicious. Obviously I'm taking into account that holidays were around and all.

[Pepchoninga]

How did you evolve from me being town to suddenly possible scum? One of the ways you read me was in the quote below:

Pep, I'm just gonna interpret that as an OMGUS vote. Also the fact that I'm not defending myself from your accusations makes me think you're even more scummy then you already are. Who says I have to defend myself if I think scum is attacking me?
And instead of voting me, you could be civil and coperative and give me the reasons instead of making me ISO you for it.
And generally most people include themselves as town. That's just natural and good play.

What are you talking about? Why wouldn't you defend yourself? What if he's town? This is anti-town if you are town FYI. You're so blinded that you replace into a game, skim through a few posts and call someone scum and instead of trying to refute a point that someone makes against you, you just call them scummy and say nothing? You're ACTUALLY avoiding the question with zero answer, not a half answer like mine apparently.

Honestly I find this post as a plus for ny not because he is protecting me, but mostly because you can see his pure frustration which is made out of a pure town mindset.

so you're saying you read me off "pure frustration" which is probably off tone (I'm assuming).

Yet after the EoD, accountant who had been scum reading me for the majority of the game and ended up giving me a null read decided to read me town after my reaction. To me, that means that my reaction was townier than my reactions towards pressure, etc., so I feel like the way you're reading the game is inconsistent. I'd expect an even stronger town read out of you on me.

Why do you not see the way Accountant reads the game as inconsistent? You're using Accountant as a reference point for Pep's behavior arbitrarily here.

Because pep had already randomly put me from town to possible scum. I guess accountant could also be inconsistent but gamma also put me as town for the reaction. The reason why I didn't mention gamma was because he was already town reading me.

I put you as a possible scum mostly because of the way you were soo sure in defending Alisae. While you ended up right, I'm more then sure there weren't any real good evidence proving he is town and outdoing any of the things he said that got us suspecting him being scum. You just stood there and defended him. This after his town flip puts you again at null. Still I don't think this is inconsistent. This game takes unexpected roads, so opinions change according to the situation.

[Pepchoninga]

Why changing opinion on someone is wrong? And this inconsistent argument i call bs, we had a night phase, some of us got night results, we had lot discussion, we got Alisae flip, so why people can't change their reads?

Why attack Gamma for being away before deadline? He wouldn't change anything, if was there, and he wasn't important all game, just was there, trying to PoE game and that's all, so please explain why he was important at deadline, or it's start of frame on Gamma?

And no one answered, why townread Kyo? What i'm missing?

I don't understand if both the first and the second paragraph were directed to me, but I will say it was only the second one as I said that changing opinions is normal if there is a good explanation for that.

Now I didn't attack Gamma. I already answered that question but still. I think that the way Gamma was up for a Alisae buddy but he saw that alis us getting lynched by more people he disappeared. He wasn't really important at deadline but his absence during the final moments of Day 1 just before the lynch on Alisae seems a bit suspicious. As I said it is normal to not be as active during the holidays but really the night took the better part of the Christmas holidays.

And I don't really have anything on Kyo. I see him as a null for now.

[Pepchoninga]

It was really just bad wording from me. Nyd is really more of a null atm, since him defending Alisae doesn't really fit a lot with scum way of action, tho it could've been a way to try and remove all suspicions off him. I really did get confused from what I've said at the beginning of Day 2. Really for now you and Gamma are the only ones I have a slight scumread on. I hope this clears up the confusion in everybody's head including mine.

[Pepchoninga]

Take your time mate and hopefully you will be more active then DBW ^^

[Pepchoninga]

Going for a fast hammer ei? No real reasons for lynching me, jus putting it on there.

Gamma if anything you really have been inconsistent troughout the game. You hop on here and there and then disappear from the action for a while till you find another time to hop in. I'm not pulling shade I'm developing a theory. You really should see the difference. Also you basically have nothing to back your lynch. You just use other people's saying and lynch the person who is on the radar atm. You also haven't started any wagons or really developed any atrong reads. This is either very lazy play or just scum behavior.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Also nyd, would love to hear your other reasons too. I think I already gave answers to everything you pushed against me and you didn't comment on that. A blind lynch without anything to back it up.

[Pepchoninga]

Why so exceptionally rude tho? And well you are just dodging everything I say and then start misinterpreting it.

[Pepchoninga]

Well Ram, I don't know what else I could be. I'm pretty offensive against Gamma tho. But I am weary of my actions because I don't wanna cost town another miss lynch.

And do you think trying to solve the game is a bad thing or a good thing?

[Pepchoninga]

Accountant what are your reads on Gamma?

[Pepchoninga]

So you say you want wait someone else to push lynch and you stand and watch? How you supposed win then as town? Cause atm everyone does same

Obviously I want to push for a lynch. Didn't I do that day 1 too? Now I think I need to push for a Gamma lynch but I also wanna see Sceenplays(was that his name?) reads. Also I am weary of a fast lynch and would much rather have more discussion and be sure that my targets are better this time then end up like the lynch on Alisae. There was discussion there too, but it was 50% the same thing.

[Pepchoninga]

@pep, I have to get ready to leave soon but off the top of my head, I feel like the answers you gave are unsatisfactory. I'll just talk about the last post you responded to.

My reads goes as follows.
Scum: Pep
Other potential scum: Nyd, DBW, Charloux
Town: Ramcius, Mewtaph, Accountant, myself.

Pep has been lurking up to this point. And you may think it's due to inactivity, but I doubt that. Like he's posting in gaps, and if he was town, he's someone I'd expect to be more active and vocal. He's moreso reserved and safe leading up to his posts today. Also he shows no interest in scumhunting.
Not having anyone voted at this point in time tells me you have no real scum reads. This also goes for DBW, who's also lurking, except I don't know them. Either way I see them as a potential partner.
I can see Charloux being paired up with Pep easily. Charloux goes after lurkers but ignores Pep. This seems off to me.
As for Nyd, I'm following Accountant's reasoning and logic moreso then Nyd's on Accountant. Or they could just both be town, which I see happening.

Your only real strong points are that I was innactive for a bit and that I'm not interested in scumhunting. Now let me tell ya, I am interested in scumhunting. Actually I'm trying to achieve that. Kinda hard when you can't really find a place in the disscussion till now. My prime targets till now were Accountatn and Ramicius. Two people you put as Town on your list. Yet you almost haven't touched on anything those 2 people have said till now. And there one of the most active people in the game till now. Most of the post I read from you are on my posts and going againt me. You have a personal agenta? Or you just want to get me out of the game as soon as possible since I'm gonna be the easiest target for you? Let me also point out that I hate when people just say that they are confirmed town in there opinion and put it like it's something normal. For me it's a veyr scummy move and one that should not be neglected. What makes you think you are a town?

Pep what are your reads?

Alisae - Scum
DBW - Potential Scum (mostly because he is lurking or not even considering playing the game anymore)
You - Scum leaning to null (Is that a thing?)
Ramicius - null leaning to Town
Chaloux - null leaning to Town
Gamma - null leaning to Scum
Mewtaw - Town

I think I missed one guy so if you see yourself just tell me and I will add you in.

Well, I had an early scumread on Ramicius. But with time I stated he became more of a null and in recent time he a town IMO. As said the read was early and was mostly due to his hostile and very aggressive playstyle at the beggining. His change was well receved by everybody and was explainable.

Now my biggest targets are Alisae, Gamma and maybe Accountant a bit.

Can you clarify how you went from ramcius as your top two scum to town? I don't quite understand your reasoning.

Oh yeah, Nyd is Town

Honestly I belive that my reads have changed a little.

I think that the possible scum are either Gamma, nyd and/or Accountant

How did you evolve from me being town to suddenly possible scum? One of the ways you read me was in the quote below:

Pep, I'm just gonna interpret that as an OMGUS vote. Also the fact that I'm not defending myself from your accusations makes me think you're even more scummy then you already are. Who says I have to defend myself if I think scum is attacking me?
And instead of voting me, you could be civil and coperative and give me the reasons instead of making me ISO you for it.
And generally most people include themselves as town. That's just natural and good play.

What are you talking about? Why wouldn't you defend yourself? What if he's town? This is anti-town if you are town FYI. You're so blinded that you replace into a game, skim through a few posts and call someone scum and instead of trying to refute a point that someone makes against you, you just call them scummy and say nothing? You're ACTUALLY avoiding the question with zero answer, not a half answer like mine apparently.

Honestly I find this post as a plus for ny not because he is protecting me, but mostly because you can see his pure frustration which is made out of a pure town mindset.

so you're saying you read me off "pure frustration" which is probably off tone (I'm assuming). Yet after the EoD, accountant who had been scum reading me for the majority of the game and ended up giving me a null read decided to read me town after my reaction. To me, that means that my reaction was townier than my reactions towards pressure, etc., so I feel like the way you're reading the game is inconsistent. I'd expect an even stronger town read out of you on me.

First on Ramicius. Now I don't think it isn't explained in the post previous to the ones your quoted, but the reason is simple. Ram was an early SR. I read him scum for his rather disrespectful behavior in the beginning and really angry comments most of the time. While I didn't get the most satisfying answer I also didn't have any real leads on him being scum. And with time I found people that I had some leads and I persuaded them. Obviously I was wrong but this doesn't change my reasoning.

I don't Really get what you mean by the second one. Your reaction was townie like and that is why you got a slight town read from me. Relly one action is enough to make yourself look like a different person. Those changes should be aknowledged as they are what helps us deduce who is who. I don't see how this makes my reading on the game inconsistent.

Your ramcius read doesn't really make sense to me? Gotta elaborate on that because all you're saying is "I had him mafia, then just put him town"

You said it was "always town" and then you said I did something that was never scum and you ended up with me as a null read. Just really odd to me.

No worries mate, I heard you could take breaks of a couple of days when you have work or are going on a vacation. Just ask Accountant about it if you want.

I don't know how to explain it better tbh. I told you. I had an early SR on Ramicius because I thouht his behavior was shit. I also confronted him for bashing everybody for not doing anything when he wasn't really doing anything either. But still as I said with time his comments seemed to come from a more town like perspective and since he was agreeing with some of the points I made on Alisae I thought I even had a slight town read on him. But now after the Alisae flip obviously most people are null and I'm creating opinions almost from scratch.

And I don't know if you are really rushing it but you made your question and point 10 times more confusing :/

[Pepchoninga]

@pep that's possible because I found your answers confusing...

Well, I don't really know how to phrase it better tbh. Honestly I think I answered to the best of my abilities...

[Pepchoninga]

I am interested in that lynch but I have other questions currently.

No you are not trying to push for my lynch. You just came in put it on and then left it for somebody else to finish. This either means you are weary of who I might end being or you know it and don't want to take the blame for it. This is a scum move imo.

[Pepchoninga]

Accountant what are your reads on Gamma?

Slight scumlean.

@Ramcius: Let's say Pep gets hammered right now. How do you feel about that? Would you take explicit steps to stop a hammer(a proper one, with roleclaims and everything) in order to push Gamma?

You counting on Kyo to hammer? I'm not too much, and Pep seems know he's not getting hammered - i'm not hammering, Speedy still new, so won't hammer, that leaves only Kyo, and from he did yet i can't see hammer, and what more important, Pep at L-1 and no one from voters ask him to claim, this game is really bizarre

I do understand I am at an L-1, tho I also know that I would get hammered if Alisae flipped town. Unfortunately at the time I tryid to push this possibility out of my head. I am ready to take the consequences of my mistake but I also belive I have a scum on my radar. And I will pursue it till the end.

[Pepchoninga]

I actually did take a look at the games you are playing in...they are alot xD kinda bad for you on here tho :/

[Pepchoninga]

Kinda don't catch your thought process...or why you are trying to take the attention from yourself and direct it to past events.

[Pepchoninga]

Really past games shouldn't even be taken in account. Even tho it can be a good inside at the beginning of the game it's kinda unprofessional to bring it up at this point where people should already have some established opinions of others players.

[Pepchoninga]

Also, I don't know if it's too early or hot, but...

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY! Wish you a very great year, full of great experiences, friendship and love and a lot of mafia <3

[Pepchoninga]

IIRC Ram started to follow up on it as well. Account sat back and watched. Ram moved on to another conflict, when that didn't go anywhere Account brought up NY again. Alisea came in and got involved and tried to get them to stop, but inevitably got involved. Account backed away and watched. That turned into a different conflict with Alisea and Pep. Account sat back and watched. Here they had an obvious non game experience effect this game play. I thought IC town!Account would have told them to stop, it's not helping but he just watched.

What a gross mischaracterization of the events of D1! I was on the nydusher wagon all the way, constantly yelling and prodding at him, as nydusher himself can testify. To say that I sat back and allowed Ramcius to do everything is utter horseshit. For instance I was the one to move Alisae from ny's vanity wagon to a lynch target.

Now, let us examine why this makes me scum. Suppose that what you have said is actually true, even though it's not. Why is this scummy?

PS: The Pep and Alisae thing happened while I wss busy over Christmastime, which I expressly acknowledged.

No, you're the one misrepresenting what I'm saying. I did not say you "allowed Ram to do everything." What I'm saying is you start conflict hoping someone else will take it over. Then you back off when someone else gets involved, or starts a new conflict. To say you moved Alisea to a lynch target is not a good thing. who do you think you moved her to? You watched conflict from the shadows. Alisea was a bad lynch that was against two people who had an out of game conflict. Would a town IC not say some nothing about that during or after to explain why thats not helpful for us? Can you agree with that as an IC?

I didn't see where you said you were v/la.


Happy New Years to all!!! I am out celebrating so if i start posting gibberish later, sorry in advance.

Now let me just say that me going against Alisae wasn't just an out of game conflict. We are good friends and while I was certainly mad at him, my mindset in lunching him was gathered completely and only from the game and the things he said.

[Pepchoninga]

It's scummy because you don't care where the conflict is. You just want it. I do care where it is. We should let us fight each other when we know there is scum sitting and watching in fighting. That is bad and if you can't say leering tvt happens is bad you are scum in my book

Why are you so sure it's TvT? Given that up until recently you thought nydushermain was scum, you should think that my earlier conflict was a conflict directed at scum.

I love conflict. I think conflict is what drives mafia games forward. In a conflict, mafia members are forced to take sides and espouse reads, which might prod them into revealing inconsistencies in their mindset. It's far better than sitting around in a sterile environment where mafia can blend in easily.

Now, here's a question for you. What makes you think I don't care where the conflict is? After all, I specifically choose to start it on certain people(ny, alisae) so I must definitely be "directing" the conflict rather than just sitting back and letting it happen.

You have been inconsistent tho, I will admit that. You got against nyd and oushed him but then saw that I started a grid against Alisae so you slowly turned your attention to him giving a lynch without really specifying why. Obviously Christmas time is a bummer in games, but really you have been like that for the better half of the game. This is why you are still one of my to scum targets. Unfortunately whatever you say, people will always use this as a reason for you being scum and if you wanna change somebody's opinion you better start showing signs that you are doing things fir the benefit of town. As a starter what are your reads at this moment?

[Pepchoninga]

Honestly I belive one of the scum is Gamma. He is definitely inconsistent in his playing, mostly due to the fact he doesn't seem to care one bit and has like 3 bilion more games. The other thing is he really just likes to pop in from time to time and gets on a wagon with zero to no reason then leaves and comes back when he can hop on another wagon. He also seems to have a pretty aggressive response when somebody starts to question him on those matters.

[Pepchoninga]

Tho I do also belive that his parthner could very well be Accountant. I don't really see the connection from what I reread but they both seem scummy and a very distinctive way. They really just come hop on a wagon that's already started or create one and never really seem interested in completing it. Accountant really came to do a push on Alisae when it was most likely that he would be lynched. Then again he got into his hole.

If a Gamma lynch won't happen today tho, I think I'm content to put my vote on Accountant as well.

[Pepchoninga]

Finally about the other possible mafia you put - nyd. Tbh, I had good reads on him for a long time but day 2 he has had some shaky posts. I admit his questioning on me was either not well thought out, inconsistent or absolutely not possible to understand. I will have to reread him most reason posts to get a better opinion on him tho.

For now, when you come bad nyd - what are your reads and why? What do you think about a possible Gamma/Accountant scum partnership?

[Pepchoninga]

Ramcius is far from VI. Alisae knows she can make him look bad by provoking him, and wants to slip out of a lynch. Don't let her do that.

Well, here I have a post that was quite interesting for around the end of day one. Accountant brings up a good point which should be enough the mask himself for the rest of the day but he also basically tells us to not let the Alisae wagon go out. This means he is sure about who Alisae is and sees it as crucial that his lynch is hammered at the end of the day. Given that Alisae flipped town this post just shows that Accountant is not playing from a town mindset.

For now atleast

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald

VOTE: Accountant - L-1

I still belive that Gamma is one of my top scum targets, but I also belive that Accountant has shown quite a lot of signs of being scum. Gamma has also recently been prodded, so I think at least for now, I will put my bet on Accountant.

[Pepchoninga]

Last post, kyouko would you like to put the hammer? I know your prime target is Accountant but still.

[Pepchoninga]

Hmm. I see the points being made on Acc but feel like nyd is more likely to flip scum, unless it's Gamma/Acc? Seems like there's somewhat circular relationships within [Gamma, Nyd, Accountant]. Defenses of one another in some places, the way Nyd uses Acc/Gamma's reaction to his post as the standard and judge's Pep for it.

Acc and Nyd's relationship D1 could have been distancing as well, seems like they moved from SRing one another pretty strongly early and then end up ignoring/TRing each other later. There was that meta dive from nyd and then Accountant sort of fell off and ended up pushing Alisae and I. Pushing Pep now too, they're all on that wagon now actually, until that unvote which could be the scumteam realizing their wagon wasn't going to go through.

Could go anywhere in those 3 at this point but would prefer Nyd, he seems to make sense with either of the others.

Is it all you have against Nyd

? Cause now you look like defending Acc after he getting heat

Could you rephrase that question? Not sure what "it" is referring to. I'm not defending him, I suspect the team is within [Nyd, Gamma, Accountant]. Nyd is the most obvious of the 3 imo and should be lynched first. Both Acc and Gamma were playing similarly yesterday, I pointed out what looked like posturing to me back then. Have 2 mislynches left so I guess it doesn't matter which we lynch first if I'm right, but I might be wrong which is why I'd rather lynch my top SR.

i asked why Nyd is most obvious? When it was Accountant in both wagons D2, and it's he started Pep wagon, when saw DBW isn't getting lynched, and now giving bs about not having time to game, and now you suspect Gamma? When me and Pep was pushing and voting, you said nothing, but when wagon forming on Acc, you bring Nyd and Gamma, so yes, i call you susp, yet i have to see your reasons to "Nyd is most obv", and let's not forget your vote on Alisae at end of D1, for me it looked like came from nowhere tbh

P-edit: UNVOTE: Accountant

just to prevent hammer before he comes and give time to claim, and Pep, your demand to hammer looks fishy

No, I didn't demand anything, I just asked if he would do it, if it came to him. I would obviously wait for Accountant to give a defence since a misslynch now could be pretty bad. Tho if it came to Kyouko would he do it? This is an important question. Tbh, you start to be hitting on everybody for little things, just like early game when I questioned you and this is a little bit strange. Also this unvote was a little bit strange. My lynch was left at L-1 for a long time and people didn't unvote me to see my defence or push a reveal from me. No, Accountant put me at L-1 so he could push me to the edge. If we want to get something from him, putting him back in a relatively safe zone could be enough for him to escape the situation.

[Pepchoninga]

you started Alisae wagon, promised explain later, but explanation never came, you just backed off, when i took it over, you saw me confronting him, only needed push, and i did all dirty work for you, sure, this isn't enough, i won't go back in D1 for more, when we have stuff in D2, vote on DBW at start of D2, why? without explanation, without reasoning, and when you say you was so busy with things, well, it's a rock in everyone's garden to let him at L-1 without asking to claim or doing anything, but you an IC, you should know how dangerous is putting lurker to L-1 and hammer would bring us to LyLo, when you saw it's not happening, you changed to Pep, as you said, to see where it leads, yet you do nothing, not asking claim, not pushing, but neither taking vote back, question is, if you so busy, why start voting at start of day between Christmas and New year?

Okay, let's go over these accusations one by one.

1) I started Alisae wagon but never explained myself and let others push it. I have already explained my reasoning in the previous post.

2) That I L-1ed DBW for no reason. Well, the reason is that I love wagoning people. I think it places great pressure on them and it helps to motivate them to post more and post better. It also forces people to take a stance early, so scum can't fencesit and blend in. Finally I felt DBW was scummy enough to be L-1ed.

3) That as an IC I should have not let DBW sit at L-1. This is nonsense. First of all it's perfectly natural and valid to let a scummy person sit at L-1. Second of all I have already warned everyone not to hammer without a claim. I'm not sure what you meant by "dangerous". Who here do you think is likely to randomly hammer DBW before a roleclaim?

4) That I am not pushing Pep. This is nonsense. I have been consistently advocating for his lynch and engaging with both him and Screenplay for the past few pages.

Ok, but why are you pushing for my lynch? A valid point would be because I was the one who lead the lynch on Alisae even if you started it. This for me tho is not something a scum would do, as it does put me in a lot of pressure. I was at an L-1 for a good period of time after all. But you were the one that was more then keen on lynching Alisae, so you cannot really push me on that button since you did the same thing. Honestly you seem more scummy by the second.

[Pepchoninga]

Accountant brings up a good point which should be enough the mask himself for the rest of the day but he also basically tells us to not let the Alisae wagon go out. This means he is sure about who Alisae is and sees it as crucial that his lynch is hammered at the end of the day. Given that Alisae flipped town this post just shows that Accountant is not playing from a town mindset.

Do you believe that it is impossible that me, as town, would be sure that Alisae is scum and would think it is crucial that she is hammered, but end up being wrong?

I'm not saying that is it impossible, what I'm saying is that no town should act like that. You can never be 100% sure who is who and if you are then your alignment is clear. You also didn't do anything to bring good points to the Alisae lynch, all you did was stand there and say how crucial it is to lynch him.

[Pepchoninga]

Actually I'm going to go ahead and call 1115 a scumslip because that kind of omniscient thinking - assuming that everyone knows the alignment of everyone else, and that therefore everyone who pushes town is scum - is characteristic of scum. Scum doesn't know what it's like to be town and be trying to poke and prod people to get answers out of them, they already know the alignment of everyone else. By thinking and starting from that kind of frame of mind, it leads to the awful lines of logic that Pep tried to push onto me.

You are either reading everything I see wrong or you are intentionally provoking me and doing this to make me look scummy. Consider the post as you wish. What I said now was that you didn't contribute to the Alisae lynch yet you were so sure about it needing to happen. Why is that? Because he came in and was an active member so you were more then happy, seing as the lynch could happen, to try and push people to go ahead and finish the lynch. This I think is why you didn't really hammer DBW. Why would you? He was mostly innactive, so at least until he is replaced he isn't that big of a threat.

[Pepchoninga]

Ok, but why are you pushing for my lynch?

You mean before you accidentally revealed your alignment to everyone else?

It's simple. I thought Ramcius and ssbm were town. That leaves nydusher, Gamma, DBW and you. It slowly came out that nydusher was town in my eyes(post 972) which meant Gamma, DBW and you, out of whom 2 were scum. I think Gamma is the towniest out of the three, and even if he turned out to be scum you're not an unlikely scumbuddy with him. At the same time, you were also a good scumbuddy with DBW(see post 973). Statistically you're likely scum, your pushes have been horrid(that awful admitted sheep at the start or instance) and one of the two confirmed town(who we know we can trust) says that you're scum.

Here is a thing for you. Why would I be a scum buddy with one of my top scum reads? (Gamma) Belive me you should know that scum usually don't put there parthner on the top of there reads. And why is Gamma the towniest? What has he done for the benefit of town? So here it is, what makes you think that statistically I'm scum? Because you are presenting a hit and miss theory with no clear evidence and are just trying to make me look scummy, so you can get out of your situation, which again is you being at L-1

[Pepchoninga]

I'm not saying that is it impossible, what I'm saying is that no town should act like that. You can never be 100% sure who is who and if you are then your alignment is clear. You also didn't do anything to bring good points to the Alisae lynch, all you did was stand there and say how crucial it is to lynch him.

1) Ah, so you are saying that as town I would never be 100% sure someone is scum and end up being wrong after they get lynched? Because I certainly have some interesting examples to show you if that's your stance. Furthermore, why bring this up now and not at the start of D2?

2) Didn't you read my case on Alisae? Or are you, as I suspect, pretending to ignore it because it's not convenient for your narrative?

If you are implying me in this cocky comment I have admitted that I'm not entirely sure about me being right at Day 1. Off course I don't want to missimperetrate wha yu are saying. And well yes, I belive overconfidence is not a good thing for town, except if you are a cop and have positive results about the player you are trying to lynch. But when you are wrong, behavior like that will bring you pressure. And why didn't I? Simple, I stated that after the Alisae flip I really had to build a lot of my SR and overall reads from the bottom and after further examination and some of the recent posts that really disturbed me (All of my reasonings have been explained), you became a target worth being put at L-1. Also you have been one of my top scum reads.

Oh belive me I have read your case on Alisae and discussed it. Really it doesn't change that you were just there to fuel the wagon and not really contribute to the full attack. Something that you have not done during the entire game.

[Pepchoninga]

What I said now was that you didn't contribute to the Alisae lynch yet you were so sure about it needing to happen.

What do you mean I didn't contribute? I provided reasoning for my vote on alisae, I provided pressure on Alisae both verbally and in the form of votes and I made sure nobody strayed off the wagon and corraled others to lynch her. What contribition am I lacking here?

You only started the wagon. You didn't persue it. You just hoped in and made sure nobody stayed off the wagon as you said. This is just fueling something you want done. This is not something that bad, but it depends on how you execute it. Hwo you executed your actions is what really gives me suspicions.

[Pepchoninga]

Here is a thing for you. Why would I be a scum buddy with one of my top scum reads? (Gamma) Belive me you should know that scum usually don't put there parthner on the top of there reads.

This is incorrect. Why, I've done it myself as scum.

Well, as it might be it contradicts woth what I've known in my past mafia games. But do I know. I haven't really had anybody to help me understand possible scum and town tactics...

[Pepchoninga]

And why is Gamma the towniest? What has he done for the benefit of town?

For one, he helped to clear nydushermain as town by pointing out his D2 reactions. Why would scum do that? I think scum!Gamma would be likely to try to get nydusher lynched rather than help him out.

Why would scum do it? Well I don't know, I'm really finding it hard to understand anything Gamma does. His playing has been inconsistent, also a thing like that could be him trying to look town. Also you are ignoring everything else that has been said against Gamma. Why don't you aknowledge that?

[Pepchoninga]

So here it is, what makes you think that statistically I'm scum? Because you are presenting a hit and miss theory with no clear evidence and are just trying to make me look scummy, so you can get out of your situation, which again is you being at L-1

You are one of three members of a group, amongst which two are likely scum. That means that off the bat you have a 2/3 chance of being scum. Gamma is townier than the other 2, so your chance is actually above 2/3. statistically, once again, you are scum.

Now, I find it interesting that you claim I am voting you to get out of being at L-1. Tell me, was I at L-1 when I voted you? Or is it the other way around, and you are opportunistically hopping on a counter wagon?

2 are likely town? Who said that? You? Or do you have evidence that we aren't aware off. Your statistics are not backed by any evidence. Numbers are not always better then logic you know. You are actually just ignoring the use of logic atm.

Sorry, but I wasn't at L-1 when I voted you. A little mistake by you, or a bad try to make me look bad? Honestly I think you are slipping.

[Pepchoninga]

That is incorrect. I don't wish to lock him into that mindset forever, but I wish to force him to be consistent. It is impossible to 100% know if you are right, but it should not be impossible to 100% know that you thought X at Y period of time and justify it. Unless you're scum.

Oh, so now you agree that you can't be 100% sure? You seem to be replying in diffrent ways to me and Screenplay. Or is it just me.

[Pepchoninga]

Oh shoot just realized I never replied to this thread earlier today. Want to wait until nyd comes back since we have time to, before considering hammering Accountant. Still think that Nyd/Gamma is possible so not too keen on this lynch yet

Also, in response to what Accountant asked me a few pages back, Pep fits in as town there, as is implied in the post:

Hmm. I see the points being made on Acc but feel like nyd is more likely to flip scum, unless it's Gamma/Acc? Seems like there's somewhat circular relationships within [Gamma, Nyd, Accountant]. Defenses of one another in some places, the way Nyd uses Acc/Gamma's reaction to his post as the standard and judge's Pep for it.

Acc and Nyd's relationship D1 could have been distancing as well, seems like they moved from SRing one another pretty strongly early and then end up ignoring/TRing each other later. There was that meta dive from nyd and then Accountant sort of fell off and ended up pushing Alisae and I. Pushing Pep now too, they're all on that wagon now actually, until that unvote which could be the scumteam realizing their wagon wasn't going to go through.

Could go anywhere in those 3 at this point but would prefer Nyd, he seems to make sense with either of the others.

Where is Pep here?

At least it seemed like it would be apparent Pep fits in as town there. Not sure how it could be read in any other way

Account in the last couple of pages has just tried to make me look bad by spreading some false information and trying to provoke me. This is probably made so he can get you all to vote me. That is why I belive Accountant is still our best lynch target for today. But I would like opinions from everybody before the hammer.

[Pepchoninga]

Cmon people, where have you been

[Pepchoninga]

Well, imput would be appreciated. Also a claim from Accountant.

[Pepchoninga]

Well, if Accountant flips town (if the lynch does go trough) I belive that Gamma is a confirmed scum. Even if Accountant is scum I belive that Gamma is one if the most likely people to be his buddy.

[Pepchoninga]

I'll be home in 6 hours ish

Great news ^^

[Pepchoninga]

Well to some extent. You seem to be content with lynching Accountant and I think that the case on him is pretty strong. Apart from Kyouko there isn't anybody who is really going to do much in this situation, unless we get a claim from Accountant. It's your choice wether to put the hammer or wait.

[Pepchoninga]

This is pointed to nyd, right?

[Pepchoninga]

Honestly I belive that DBW just got in our way of actually finding good targets. He was the main topic for too long and even now is used as an argument. I don't belive I ever got to pursue DBW even tho I did see him as a possible scum and lynch target tho not a good one. How about the change in playstyle of Accountat during day 1? We accused him of asking too many question and not doing anything with them. So what does he do? He leaves the asking questions thing completely and starts being somewhat aggressive to nyd. But in the end seeing that his lynch target won't happen, he just got into his shell and eventually hopped in to say how important it is for Alisae to be lynch. During Day 2 it has been juch of the same. He has been even more in the shadows.

[Pepchoninga]

No. not ignored.
I have thought about using the lurking town in the future to even see if I can get sone reactions and reads. New thing I want to try.

Oh, so here is where you got that stupid idea from.

[Pepchoninga]

I like discussion and all, but why is this the topic?

Ram you trying to make a case on nyd maybe?

[Pepchoninga]

So here it is, what makes you think that statistically I'm scum? Because you are presenting a hit and miss theory with no clear evidence and are just trying to make me look scummy, so you can get out of your situation, which again is you being at L-1

You are one of three members of a group, amongst which two are likely scum. That means that off the bat you have a 2/3 chance of being scum. Gamma is townier than the other 2, so your chance is actually above 2/3. statistically, once again, you are scum.

Now, I find it interesting that you claim I am voting you to get out of being at L-1. Tell me, was I at L-1 when I voted you? Or is it the other way around, and you are opportunistically hopping on a counter wagon?

Cmon now pay attentio to what you say. You said I was at L-1 when I boted you and no I wasn't. This is just an attempt to make me look bad.

[Pepchoninga]

Well, if Accountant flips town (if the lynch does go trough) I belive that Gamma is a confirmed scum. Even if Accountant is scum I belive that Gamma is one if the most likely people to be his buddy.

This is Pepchoninga lining up lynches in LyLo. He wants you to go into LyLo with the idea "I will lynch Gamma" already in mind. Very suspicious.

No, I don't want to go into LyLo. We were talking about who is the other posible scum. Honestly I think your reasoning about Gamma being the towniest is pretty weak and I also find the read Gamma has on you to be very fake too.

[Pepchoninga]

I'm not saying that is it impossible, what I'm saying is that no town should act like that. You can never be 100% sure who is who and if you are then your alignment is clear. You also didn't do anything to bring good points to the Alisae lynch, all you did was stand there and say how crucial it is to lynch him.

1) Ah, so you are saying that as town I would never be 100% sure someone is scum and end up being wrong after they get lynched? Because I certainly have some interesting examples to show you if that's your stance. Furthermore, why bring this up now and not at the start of D2?

2) Didn't you read my case on Alisae? Or are you, as I suspect, pretending to ignore it because it's not convenient for your narrative?

If you are implying me in this cocky comment I have admitted that I'm not entirely sure about me being right at Day 1. Off course I don't want to missimperetrate wha yu are saying. And well yes, I belive overconfidence is not a good thing for town, except if you are a cop and have positive results about the player you are trying to lynch. But when you are wrong, behavior like that will bring you pressure. And why didn't I? Simple, I stated that after the Alisae flip I really had to build a lot of my SR and overall reads from the bottom and after further examination and some of the recent posts that really disturbed me (All of my reasonings have been explained), you became a target worth being put at L-1. Also you have been one of my top scum reads.

Oh belive me I have read your case on Alisae and discussed it. Really it doesn't change that you were just there to fuel the wagon and not really contribute to the full attack. Something that you have not done during the entire game.

You believe overconfidence is not a good thing for town, therefore you believe that since Accountant is overconfident, they must be scum? Why not me as town who is overconfident without knowing the dangers, or overconfident but thinks it's okay? Surely you'd see that if you were genuinely trying to figure out what alignment I was, rather than merely making up reasons to scumread me.

So you are saying that I made a case on Alisae, voted her, asked people not to move votes off her and I'm still not contributing enough to the "full attack". What, pray tell, did I neglect to do that put me over the line between "fuelling the wagon" and "contributing to the full attack"?

This all seems fishy. You keep saying that "Why not me as scum" and "Why not me as town" wich just seems like a bunch of WIFOM.

[Pepchoninga]

Well I was wondering why you saw Accountant at L-1 and chose to call it tempting but not write anything about SRing him, even though it seems like your read on him has moved from scum early day 1 into town more recently. But now he's at L-1, and you say it looks tempting. I want to know why you thought that, because I'm thinking the team i s either [You + Gamma] or [You + Accountant]. You saying Accountant looks tempting makes him look less appealing as scum to me because it points to You/Gamma

If this is the case, then you should definitely have given intent to hammer immediately. If I flip scum, then that's good. If I flip town, then you immediately know that the scumteam is Gamma and Pepchoninga and can easily win the game from there. Why didn't you give intent?

Why would the scumteam be Me and Gamma? Why can't it be me and Nyd? Or Gamma and Nyd.

[Pepchoninga]

And why is Gamma the towniest? What has he done for the benefit of town?

For one, he helped to clear nydushermain as town by pointing out his D2 reactions. Why would scum do that? I think scum!Gamma would be likely to try to get nydusher lynched rather than help him out.

Why would scum do it? Well I don't know, I'm really finding it hard to understand anything Gamma does. His playing has been inconsistent, also a thing like that could be him trying to look town. Also you are ignoring everything else that has been said against Gamma. Why don't you aknowledge that?

Whaddya mean I'm not acknowledging that?

I'm giving you a reason why Gamma is the towniest out of all the people I scumread.

Thing is I belive the reason is weak and I also belive that if you try and see in the points I'm giving you, you should be able to create a better case. Yet you seem to be reluctant of doing so. Or am I missing something.

[Pepchoninga]

Ok, last thing. You are obviously experienced but you don't seem to be one bit concerned that you are at L-1.

So, I'm gonna ask you. Would you claim? I'm not asking you to specifically do it, but more so would you. And if you would, will you? This is an important question to me and I think to everybody else.

[Pepchoninga]

Ok, last thing. You are obviously experienced but you don't seem to be one bit concerned that you are at L-1.

So, I'm gonna ask you. Would you claim? I'm not asking you to specifically do it, but more so would you. And if you would, will you? This is an important question to me and I think to everybody else.

Seems like a stupid question imo. If someone gives the intent to hammer, accountant would obviously claim?

I don't think he will. You gave intent of a hammer yet he didn't react. He seems to not be bothered of his current situation. He is either very good at faking it or doesn't belive he will be lynched. His answer to this question for me might help give some answers.

[Pepchoninga]

Furthermore what do you make of the situation? What are your thoughts on Accountant's reads?

[Pepchoninga]

@accountant, I'm going to hammer you after your next post if you're not a power role. This is my intent to vote on you

Have quite a lot of work but will try to comment on the things that have been happening and get inti the discussion. For now this.

What would him saying he is a power role do? If he is town it would be easy for scum to counter claim. I don't think that role claiming itself would do much. Rather if he is willing to do it.

[Pepchoninga]

@accountant, I'm going to hammer you after your next post if you're not a power role. This is my intent to vote on you

Have quite a lot of work but will try to comment on the things that have been happening and get inti the discussion. For now this.

What would him saying he is a power role do? If he is town it would be easy for scum to counter claim. I don't think that role claiming itself would do much. Rather if he is willing to do it.

scum can't counterclaim - in that case Accountant get lynched most likely and scum will get rope D3, if that's their plan, they could simple hammer any of L-1 in D2, but i fear we might have mass claim, if Acc claims PR anyway, we have no idea what role list we got, to know that requires 3 roles to know while we got only 1 now

If scum would hammer it would be done either now or against me. There were decent cases both times. I belive it should be our lynch for today.

[Pepchoninga]

Hmmm, then Accountant has pretty much only one option. And nyd just revealed it?

[Pepchoninga]

hihi

Are you like the king of escaping prods?

[Pepchoninga]

@accountant, I'm going to hammer you after your next post if you're not a power role. This is my intent to vote on you

I'm not a power role.

Lynch Pepchoninga. Look at his interactions and try to figure out who is partner is. I'll try to contribute as much as possible before you hammer.

Wel yes, it's a normal thing to do. I have Gamma as my other big scum suspect, so I'm obviously thinking what would your lynch bring to my thoughts so far and wether or not he can be your parthner or as a whole - scum. Tell me what is wrong with that.

[Pepchoninga]

@accountant, I'm going to hammer you after your next post if you're not a power role. This is my intent to vote on you

I'm not a power role.

Lynch Pepchoninga. Look at his interactions and try to figure out who is partner is. I'll try to contribute as much as possible before you hammer.

Also what you say is "look". You don't say why. You did the same thing with the Alisae lynch.

[Pepchoninga]

Wel yes, it's a normal thing to do. I have Gamma as my other big scum suspect, so I'm obviously thinking what would your lynch bring to my thoughts so far and wether or not he can be your parthner or as a whole - scum. Tell me what is wrong with that.

When did I say there was something wrong with that?

You seem to use this as an argument to get people to lynch me, so...are you contradicting yourself?

[Pepchoninga]

Also what you say is "look". You don't say why.

Why should the town look at your interactions? Well, that's a very good question. You see, when someone draws a scum role PM, they often struggle to interact in a natural manner with their partner, because they deep down "know" that that person is their buddy, so they often treat them differently from other town members. I'm asking the rest of the town to take a close examination at who you treat differently in order to find who is your scum buddy.

By the way, what is your read on ssbm?

Also what you say is "look". You don't say why.

Why should the town look at your interactions? Well, that's a very good question. You see, when someone draws a scum role PM, they often struggle to interact in a natural manner with their partner, because they deep down "know" that that person is their buddy, so they often treat them differently from other town members. I'm asking the rest of the town to take a close examination at who you treat differently in order to find who is your scum buddy.

By the way, what is your read on ssbm?

Well this is good on theory, tho on practise it's a really easy way for scum to manipulate somebody into a misslynch.

Also why don't you make a case against me instead of actually making other people see your point of view. This just doesn't seem townie like.

Slight scum lean to null. I liked his thought process during Day 1, but he is not really active now. His nyd push is not the strongest IMO.

[Pepchoninga]

Honestly if you are town It's gonna be abysmal...

[Pepchoninga]

Alright, reads list. This is a formality, but I want people to be able to link to this post and hammer people(read: Pep) about it.

Scumreads:
Pep: Already talked about why I think he's scum. 1131 and 1133 sum it up nicely.
ssbm: This is kind of gut but I don't really like ssbm. They should be chomping at the bit to give intent to hammer to one of their top scumreads, especially one that their other two scumreads have strong opinions on. I had bad vibes about Mewtaph too(which I think I expressed before), so I'd like everyone to at least very seriously consider if they're scum. Don't let them skim by; if they're town, they'll have no issue with this.

Nullreads:
Gamma.

Townleans:
Screenplay. Push on me feels like it's coming from genuine town who think they've found a smoking gun.

Strong town:
nydushermain
Ramcius

IF ALL ELSE FAILS: Remember that nydushermain and Ramcius are very very very likely town, and Screenplay is probably town as well. PoE from there.

I am town. One of the sucm is definetely scum. And the other is probably ssbm.

[Pepchoninga]

I think we should look for who is killed during the night. Even if I'm Acc is town, I belive that his flip and the one who dies during the night is going to help a lot.

[Pepchoninga]

Honestly I think Gamma is definetely one.

My only other scum lean is on ssbm, tho Srceenplay is not far of that too.

[Pepchoninga]

Why is Screenplay scum again?

Not scum. but a null leaning to scum. Mostly because I don't think he has contributed with anything to the game since he came. He seems to be a lot like ssbm. Just there.

[Pepchoninga]

VOTE: GammaEmerald

Honestly, belive me or not, this is one of the scum.

[Pepchoninga]

Pep I'd suggest you unvote. If scum are within (ssbm, srceen, ny) then scum can quicklynch.

You haven't done anything to actually make me think that you aren't scum. For now you are my best bet.

[Pepchoninga]

I'm sorry but saying believe me or not is not going to work. My trust on everyone is running a little thin at the moment

Understandable. I myself don't really know what to rhink of this game.

[Pepchoninga]

I'm sorry but saying believe me or not is not going to work. My trust on everyone is running a little thin at the moment

Understandable. I myself don't really know what to rhink of this game.

Then you really should unvote

Why should I? I want answers from Gamma, since the guy has been alwfuly inconsistent. If me voting him would get those answers, then I'm willing too.

[Pepchoninga]

I'm not liking how complacent pep and gamma are with this. I feel like if I were town in either of their positions, I'd be freaking out. If I were town!gamma, I'd be saying "UNVOTE NOW" and yelling at pep in the case that he's town. If I were town!pep, I'd not vote so early in a lylo situation -_-

You are basically saying what you we should do. No, actually freaking out is exactly what scum shouldn't do in this situation. Freaking out would seem fake for both town and scum since in this situation people are really careful.

[Pepchoninga]

This feels like a partner vs partner bus since pep knows he's getting lynched. He's trying to distance as much as possible from gamma. Either way, I think ample time has passed in which if both gamma and pep were town, mafia would have hammered.

I'm aware that I'm probably the biggest target. I was leading a doomed misslynch day 1 and targeted another townie day 2. That is the reason why I'm still alive. I have been wanting a Gamma lynch for a lot of time tho. I haven't attempted to push it since nobody seemed to be wih me on that.

And I don't belive we are both town.

[Pepchoninga]

Pep I'd suggest you unvote. If scum are within (ssbm, srceen, ny) then scum can quicklynch.

Hello, ny? I said it calmly because I figured calm reasoning was the way to talk Pep down.

Atm my lynch is mostly a pressure one.

[Pepchoninga]

Honestly I belive one of the scum is Gamma. He is definitely inconsistent in his playing, mostly due to the fact he doesn't seem to care one bit and has like 3 bilion more games. The other thing is he really just likes to pop in from time to time and gets on a wagon with zero to no reason then leaves and comes back when he can hop on another wagon. He also seems to have a pretty aggressive response when somebody starts to question him on those matters.

I am interested in that lynch but I have other questions currently.

No you are not trying to push for my lynch. You just came in put it on and then left it for somebody else to finish. This either means you are weary of who I might end being or you know it and don't want to take the blame for it. This is a scum move imo.

The first one are basically my strongest accusations.

Also about the second one, the post I quoted from you is interesting. You say you have other question, wich we don't really se eyou ask or even if you do p, there is no sign of you doing anything with the gathered information.

[Pepchoninga]

Pep I'd suggest you unvote. If scum are within (ssbm, srceen, ny) then scum can quicklynch.

Hello, ny? I said it calmly because I figured calm reasoning was the way to talk Pep down.

Atm my lynch is mostly a pressure one.

I REALLY DON'T think it's good to be pressure voting in LyLo.

In all honesty this is my first LyLo I think, but I feel comfortable enough to keep my vote for now.

[Pepchoninga]

I think we should look for who is killed during the night. Even if I'm Acc is town, I belive that his flip and the one who dies during the night is going to help a lot.

What have you learned that makes you vote gamma right away.

I stated that I belive that if Accountant flips green I strongly belive Gamma is scum. That is why I voted him from the start.

[Pepchoninga]

What I meant in the second post was "I'm focused elsewhere".

Basically same thing. I didn't saw you focus anywhere really. Only now you seem to have popped in this game more.

[Pepchoninga]

How do we know this isn't a delusion?

Also how is it gonna help us in a LyLo situation. Cuz now this seems like you want some food to go against, since you don't have anything good. We all know scum isn't gonna admit they are scum, so basically it's an easy way to create conflict.

[Pepchoninga]

But sure, I have already said I'm town and I see nothing bad with revealing now.

I'm a Vanilla Townie.

[Pepchoninga]

What I meant in the second post was "I'm focused elsewhere".

Basically same thing. I didn't saw you focus anywhere really. Only now you seem to have popped in this game more.

I was asked why I was voting you but not really focusing on you

Yes and you gave your answer. Good. But why didn't you focus on the thing you were apparently supposed to be focused on? And you still kept your vote on me.

[Pepchoninga]

I say srceen claims next

No, you claim next

[Pepchoninga]

Vote Thief or Vigilante?

[Pepchoninga]

?

Oh, a Vanilla Townie. Sorry didn't get it.

[Pepchoninga]

OK
I am a tracker
Night 1 I was way behind and only really looked at the flip, so I tracked Charloux and saw him visit Ramcius
Night 2 I tracked ssbm and tracked ssbm to ramcius, meaning ssbm is confirmed scum
I suggested mc because I thought I could bait scum into claiming a PR
VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Firstly it is strange that you catch to power roles without really being involved in almost any way. Also it is easy to make it up, since Charloux died night 1 and now Ram died.

Another thing. You didn't you wait for kyouko to reveal his role, before you reveal yours? I belive you should've done that because depending on what kyouko claims your word would be more creditable.

[Pepchoninga]

Once Charloux flipped, I knew the only visiting roles other than me were scum
So I didn't need to worry about ssbm's claim
I've also learned to not wait too long to claim something important in lylo

Well, your saying can easily be manipulated by scum in this situation even if you are indeed telling the truth.

[Pepchoninga]

I gtg go for a few. Please wait before anyone votes. Pep you should remove your vote.

I won't until everyone claims.

[Pepchoninga]

Pep unvote -_- don't be stupid

Belive me on this.

[Pepchoninga]

Jesus are we all VTs?

Honestly, we have 4 people claiming town. I want to hear Kyouko claim. We know that we have 2 scum, so one of them is from the pool of players that have claimed or maybe even two. Gamma has a wagon started as well as Kyouko. If we belive Gamma is town, this probably means Kyouko is scum. And visa-versa. This leaves that most likely the other scum is one of the tree of us (Me, Nyd and Srceenplay).

What do you think?

[Pepchoninga]

If you're town and gamma is real we've already lost with you refusing to unvote...

I'm keeping the vote when I know that I can be active at all times. If you haven't figured out why my vote is still up, then you should try to.

[Pepchoninga]

If ssbm and screenplay are scum together, they just hammer gamma. On that note, I don't actually think screenplay is scum with ssbm. I'm 100% certain that there's one between pep and gamma. Normally, I would think that there's a chance that scum partner ssbm just isn't logging on and scum!screenplay is waiting but I don't think that he ever asks town!pep to unvote on town!gamma because he just wants to wait for ssbm to log on and then just hammer. There's no way. So fmpov, 1 between pep and gamma AT LEAST. We know there's 1 between gamma and ssbm because of the claim as well. The thing that's odd about the claim is that I find it strange that ssbm would be the one to send out the kill. Since mafia can decide on who is doing the killing, since I refuse to believe that it's a world of SSBM + gamma, it would have to be ssbm + pep if gamma is real. That means that ssbm, who wasn't being particularly scum read, decided that he was going to risk getting caught as the mafia when everyone is pretty much already saying that pep, his partner in this case, was getting lynched the next day? I don't believe that ssbm would ever lead that. I think that ssbm would hand it off to scum partner pep.

As I said, Kyouko claim is incredible important. Your theory kinda confuses me. What are you actually implying. If you are defending Kyouko, then you think that Gamma is scum in your words, at least that is what I'm getting from them.

[Pepchoninga]

For the record, I still believe that there's a good chance that pep and gamma are together.

I gtg go for a few. Please wait before anyone votes. Pep you should remove your vote.

I won't until everyone claims.

This is especially strange. If you think that screenplay is scum, you just keep your vote here. That's fine if you're 100% sure. However, you said "I won't until everyone claims." What is that supposed to mean? Once a counterclaim potentially happens, you just decide, "alright, now let's evaluate alignments." ?????? You could literally lose here if you're town because you're waiting out on future evaluations.

Pep unvote -_- don't be stupid

Belive me on this.

So now you want to just keep the vote there? So you lied about waiting for the claims above? I just don't understand what you're doing if you're town. I'm so tempted to place my vote on you right now but BECAUSE I'M TOWN I won't just randomly throw a vote on someone who could also potentially be town. I want you to read that last sentence if you're town at least 100 times to yourself OUT LOUD and realize what you're doing by voting on gamma.

No, I want everybody to claim, because this can basically tell us who is scum from Gamma and Kyouko. Tho I also wanna keep the lynch in line and try and prevent hammers. I'm not withholding information from you. Actually I'm trying to bait someone. This might be town or scum. It's your perspective on the matter.

[Pepchoninga]

If you're town and gamma is real we've already lost with you refusing to unvote...

I'm keeping the vote when I know that I can be active at all times. If you haven't figured out why my vote is still up, then you should try to.

If you're softing a PR, there's literally ZERO reason to hide it. All you're doing is witholding information from town by doing so. Why wouldn't you just say "hey, I'm actually tracker?" Why wait? Just go -_- . I'm not voting on someone who is uncced. I want you to HARD CLAIM right now. VT or tracker/cop? Whichever one you claim now, I am holding onto you forever. If you EVER claim someone else in the future, I am voting on you and we lose if you're town. HARD CLAIM

I already claimed, didn't I? This is my HARD CLAIM. And I expect you to keep your promise.

[Pepchoninga]

So then why the fuck are you voting on an unCCed tracker???

Because I think it's a good lynch. I'm interested to see wether mafia think the same.