Marketplace Mafia II - Game Over

[Voidedmafia]

I did not get Investigation Immune nor the NK.

[/color]

I'm a miller.

VOTE: Seanald

Everyone vote this kid, end the day asap.

Otherwise no lynch.

I need moneys.

Even for RVS you're really gonna have to do better than that to convince me.

Also, like hell I'll give you any.

Reg/Grey you've played in this before so I'm guessing you have some set up spec ideas.

No mention of me? *sadface*. Also, I don't remember Regfan being in the Mini. *checks thread* oh, he was, but replaced out. Bah.

Whoever got investigation immunity needs to claim it or it'll just be assumed scum bought it. The fact night kill went so cheap is also kind of sad (and having the second scummiest player be required to spend all their money on it to at least drive it's price up would be one idea). Whoever has oracle should claim it and all the next night powers too (and while we couldn't plan with the previous powers, it's somewhat possible to plan for future powers now). Extra vote should be claimed as well. Governor I'm more meh on whether or not it's kept secret.

More or less agree with this. I believe a similar style was implemented, at least for the NK and immunity.

Given that scum are split into two factions with no night-kill but also unable to kill each other through the auctioned night-kill

I'm thinking we're likely dealing with scum-teams size wise of either 3-2 or 3-3

. All of the lower possibilities such as 2-2, 2-1 and 1-1 would be too town sided and anything like 4-3 or 4-4 and more would be too scum sided. Biggest thing it means though is that interaction-scum-reading is going to be a lot more difficult this game due to scum not knowing all other scum, similarly mafia having day talk means they're going to be able to organize their bidding really well inside individual factions and the only way we can attempt to counter this is by putting in place some firm rules about how we're dealing with items.

Perhaps I'm simply reading it wrong as I have very little experience playing in Larges (the first one I ever played was danakillsu's Sora's Story), but I'd think 3-3 would be more likely. 3-2 does sound more...safe, for lack of a better way to put it, but I'd believe 3-3 would be closer.

I think the most important thing for all of us to agree upon is that

negative-utility items like Investigation Immunity, Extra Vote, Governor and such need to be claimed publicly and used as early of as possible

, once the risk and threat of them are gone we're fine to go whereas if scum win them and we don't know they have control of it lylo could be brought up a day and cop could be rendered less effective.

Much agreed.

What I'm not understanding right now though is Night-Kill only going for $31. I really cannot fathom that at all.

I will admit right now that I put $15 into NK. I didn't expect to win it (though that would've been a nice surprise), but I was hoping to bump the price up to make the highest bidder lose a little more. It seems that someone else bid more than me, though.

In light of that and what you just said about scum being hesitant, isn't it possible that that extends to the NK as well? It is very likely that both scumteams (or even a potential 3rd party of Mag decided to go that route for the sequel) were all vying for it, and the low price indicates to me that both/all oppposing sides didn't want to risk having one person lose the majority of their funds/lose all their funds just in the zeroth night. I would not be surprised if the NK rose to triple digits over the following auctions.

Mafia started with $150 rather than a $100 like town. They also got $125 at the end of days rather than towns $50. They didn't get any efficiency bonus though.

I thought the end-of-day nest egg was less than that? I could've sworn it was $75.

Despite how I agree that BB's claim is basically trolling, the case put out by Boiz is...surprisingly decent. I wouldn't stick my neck out for it, but still.

GB town is a good read so far as of Page 1. The only other outstanding vaguely townie read would be on Mehdi, but I'm still holding out on that one.

[Voidedmafia]

Fuck me and my tendency to use my mod typeset with bold -_-

Kids I'm a bum, I started with no money, I don't even know how the auction shit works cause I sat out of it last night due to nomoney.

I'm a miller cause I'm a bum in a marketplace. I don't fit in and it's obvious.

If it's relevent, investigations on me return "Mafia" not "Guilty".

The fact that you're trying to continue this is...worrying.

[Voidedmafia]

You

believe

we're all vanilla. If BB says he is joking then I'll remove my vote. Other people know how the efficiency bonus works I see.

BB just fucked the thread by doing somethin very untown. If he says he was joking then fuck him. Suspicion will remain and the WIFOM will be endless.

THere is a point, though. This setup would by and large be plain vanilla for all sides. Including a miller is not entirely outlandish for the setup, but less likely than a 3rd party role.

Pedit by way of posting because I'm on my phone: @gentlemen If Magua confirms it then I'll be happy.

Is everybody vanilla Mag

Same as Bois: Why did you even think this would be given an answer?

Discussion on miller claim needs to end, it's just going to clutter up the thread and if this turns into a 10-page debacle it's going to lead towards people being reluctant to actually read through the thread. So please cut it out and here, read from the OP stating that abilities are from auctions, not given out as roles:

1. Abilities are the powers that can be won from the

auctions in the marketplace

.

Fine. Last point of discussion: How would a miller exactly be an auctioned ability? if one exists in this game at all, it makes more sense for it to be part of the role-list rather than an auctioned item.

This is a terrible post and you should feel terrible

It isn't terrible...(Yes I know your reasonings are later. I'll address them when they come up.)

We could discuss if it's beneficial for anyone else (Other than negative utility roles) to claim today or if it's worth attempting to pool funds on a particular player, order doctor to be on them and have them bid and win night kill tonight. Or alternatively we could just not spam the thread up.

...I think I got this, but could you reword this so I can be sure?

A true miller claim does affect things (and if you're fake claiming I think you've gotten enough reaction out of it to stop if you're town). Still fine with my current vote though (and I don't agree with lynch all millers nor do I really think molla's first post was that bad for a true miller claim anyway so just judge him for what he does later).

If he's going to be that articulate in how a result would come back, that somewhat implies a 3rd party (which I hope hasn't ended up with GreyICE this game...)

P-edit: I haven't finished reading the mini so I assume you replace in later voided.

I think I show up either in D1 or D2. It was pretty early, though. *checks again* N2, after Ghostlin was lynched, about page 22. Guess you'll have a ways (post-game I'd like to know what you thought of my play in the first game, btw.)

P-EDIT: Don't bunch me with them <_<.

[Voidedmafia]

Do NOT shoot Tammy PLEASE

Please shoot Seanald. Or VM as a compromise.

Wut. I like the case on Seanald and all, but where did that come from?

we'll point it all out in a few minutes but Post 109 is a logical fallacy in it's own.

Feels more like she's trying to meta BB on this.

Also I was in the entirety of the last game, I just replaced out and into it with a hydra with Slaxx.

I'll guess this is Reg and ask, "Really? Don't remember that..."

Tammy, just to be very clear, you aren't getting lynched today. But maybe what would help you get out of this bind would be to focus less on being SnarkyMcSnarkSnark and more on scumhunting???

But I like snarky tammy... (okay, I'm nearing my off-topic quota for this day).

TOWN (Strongest to Weakest):

Voided's

claimage and action of bidding $15 on the night-kill alongside with his reasoning behind it is incredibly town-motivated and genuine. I don't see scum just decided on putting $15 which is such a meager amount on night-kill which is massively important to them and I don't see him lying about something such as this. His reaction towards Mollas miller claim and continuation of it in Post 83 is very genuine and was pretty much my thoughts exactly when I read Mollas post there.

Okay, I get how this could make me a strong townread. How does this make me conf-town or anywhere near it?

Wait really quickly BBmolla does your kill end day phase?

Asking.

...I'm continually concerned by this, and you're not helping.

Need to sleep, have a headache that isn't going away, don't want to deal with Tammy vs. GB right now. I stand by my townreads on them, though (and if I didn't say either of them were town, I do now).

[Voidedmafia]

BBMolla, you can have 20 bucks from me if you vig Seanald and it doesn't end day.

(Not really buying the miller vig thing)

You act like you believe the vig stuff, and then say you don't believe it. Cute.

So this game started while I was at work

VOTE: Tammi

Trying to RVS at this point?

You're better than this, Elmo.

I think some of these items went for WAY too much.

Really? Which ones?

I am tired and have to get some RL work done. Need Coffee. I was not able to concentrate reading the later half of the game. For what it's worth, the votes on Tammi makes sense. I got lost on seanald. I don't see the reason to vote for him. I'll take a good look at them when I am not pressured to get back to work.

...Not that hard to follow, really.

I don't have the time to make a huge post about the past 7 pages, but I will say that

I did not win anything.

I think some of these items went for WAY too much.

You're essentially claiming to be a vanilla townie
Don't do that

Wait, why shouldn't he? If you have any experience with the first game it's more likely that everyone would be vanilla than not. IMO the only abilities that wouldn't be listed in the auctions would be passive abilities (like Miller), and since BB already claimed that (disregarding whether or not its true), there's actually no harm in claiming vanilla in this setup.

Claiming what you've bought, on the other hand...

Voided

– Post 82 entrance post has all sorts of things wrong with it … agreeing with a Bad Point made by Gentlemen, lots of “gee whiz mechanics” statements which have no alignment relevance and coattailing on Gentlemen.

What bad point?

And move on, will ya? I have more posts than that at Page 7.

Voided's claimage and action of bidding $15 on the night-kill alongside with his reasoning behind it is incredibly town-motivated and genuine.

I stopped reading your Town reasoning on Voided at this. Frankly that’s so easy for scum to fake “Oh, I spent $15 on Nightkill” that the fact that you lead your Townread with that makes me suspect highly it is fabricated.

But his townread isn't based on just that I did that?

Cash calculations

In the first game, we could try to catch players lying by doing the math on the items they say they bid on and the money they should/could have left. However, I think Magua would have corrected for anything like this, so don't feel it would be as useful this game. If anyone can think of a way where doing so might be feasible and useful, I'd like to hear it.
Either way, those at L-1 for the lynch should show there "final accounting" if town. This will allow us to prevent scum claims of abilities and cash in the lategame.

It doesn't really feel like it'd be a bad thing to try that here. I won't overly advocate it, but it's still possible that mag didn't make changes to prevent it.

Sala: You didn't have to give that away quite so early.
So Defender, does Magua like me more than you or why did you forget that?

Moi: Curious reaction. Comment?

Why the hell did you post that, anyways?

Call it a HUNCH. However, I have several bigger scumreads than you now, so we can worry about this later.

That does not fill me with comfort. If I'm vigbait I'd like to know why as soon as because the last thing I need is that kind of threat hanging over my head.

[Voidedmafia]

Trying to RVS at this point?

You're better than this, Elmo.

Why are you assuming a vote for the leading wagon is RVS and playfully slapping Elmo on the wrist Voided?

Should I assume otherwise? Nothing in that post led me to believe he was giving anything substantial behind that vote, and I don't think that implies that I'm giving him a "playful slap on the wrist". Maybe a simple slap on the wrist (regardless of whether it's not his first post, I wouldn't call him scum based off his first post in the game evar at this stage).

What bad point?

And move on, will ya? I have more posts than that at Page 7.

That Governor can move up LYLO a Day. And why should I disregard a post I find scummy simply because you have made other posts again?

Well, Governor can't.

Because it sounds like you're saying I'm scummy because of post X and that you haven't read/disregarded posts Y, Z, and/or A.

But his townread isn't based on just that I did that?

It’s the classic “Don’t bury the lead” journalism standard – you put your strongest point at the very front of the story. In this case he chose to highlight as the strongest reason you are Town a point that is not even remotely alignment indicative.

Well, not just that, but I think his point was that the way I did it was town-motivated and genuine, not just that I did it.

I do not see what the fuss about the QT is.

VOTE: Seanald

Plan is vote Seanald then daykill MoI right?

No because MoI doesn't need to be daykilled (or killed), period.

Who claimed they had the nightkill? slumber is asking shit that's confusing me.

pedit kk

No one as of this post?

At least three people (including myself) did say they didn't have it, though.

Two posts. 24 hours. No walls of text.

You are referring to yourself here, right?

Idk why two posts this early put a target on my back.

Maybe because one of those posts was bad?

You know what I just flove? Is when someone who has never played a game with me before acts like others who have don't know my meta.

Wait, w hat? What's with this defensive tone? Mehdi barely mentioned you.

Would still rather prefer Seanald over anyone else at the moment. Defender is alright for a secondary choice, if only because his posts so far have just been really underwhelming than the rest (Elmo's up there with him, btw).

I feel like GB, Bois, MoI, Tammy, and Mehdi as town (with Mehdi as the weakest and Bois as slightly stronger). Anyone else is null (GreyICE, Gnarl, Tazaro guille, etc.) or I haven't been able to conclusively get a read on them.

P-EDIT: don't get your gnarls gnarled up.

Also, that's more null than anything. I'd probably advocate MoI to be vigshot as town or scum because he's hard to deal with, anyways, so them suggesting that isn't too outlandish (I'd probably ask you to be vigged just because of the Mini-Marketplace, FYI). If I thought about WHY they're suggesting it then the stated reason "Seanald's easier to lynch" does bug me.

P-EDIT2: ...330 sounds a lot more likely.

[Voidedmafia]

Bois and GreyICE just need to shut up. Not as worse as that page/2-page crap around BB, but still that was a waste of a page.

ICE is right about one thing: We need organization stat, and oracle claiming would be one step to it (this is also me implying that I don't have it).

Someone tell me why I saw demands like "don't vote Seanald when he's near L-1" going around?

340 puts me at ease on the point of whether or not ICE is 3rd party again. I kinda doubt he'd be so upfront about this if he got that role again.

[Voidedmafia]

Can we just get this over with so you all can stop arguing about it?

If BB's wrong (as in, there is no kill) he either goes today or tomorrow.
If he's right then we just drop that point until it needs to brought up again (ie if he isn't 1-shot).

Please and thank you.

[Voidedmafia]

Can we just get this over with so you all can stop arguing about it?

If BB's wrong (as in, there is no kill) he either goes today or tomorrow.
If he's right then we just drop that point until it needs to brought up again (ie if he isn't 1-shot).

Please and thank you.

NO

VOIDED WE WENT OVER THIS LIKE TWO MINUTES AGO

IF NO ONE DIES HE LIED. WHAT HAPPENS?

If BB's wrong (as in, there is no kill) he either goes today or tomorrow.

*cough*

[Voidedmafia]

Though, since BB's claim was true and he hit scum, that's more or less irrelevant. I do agree that Moi flipping scum means it was a lucky shot, though.

Thoughts on Seanald are unchanged.

[Voidedmafia]

We get it. Now shut up and do shit.

[Voidedmafia]

why are you so eager to paint the shot as luck?

This to someone in particular or to people in general?

417 is okay, but I still want more shit.

What we know from MoI's scumteam:

1. His team most likely dont have Investigation Immunity.

2. His team doesnt consist of Mehdi, Elmo, or Voided or GI

3. Tammy could be a possible buddy as does Seanald.

4. TheBois are most likely a buddy with MoI, but I dont want him lynched yet

5. StephanB is near conftown

I will need to Iso others not named MoI to check on the complete validity of these, but im sure this is nearly accurate.

Please explain all of these, if only to make your reasoning behind each clear.

P-Edit: That. MoI doesnt miss anything. Hes MoI. He was pretty much conftown.

So? MoI can miss things. It's still possible.

[Voidedmafia]

I don't even care if he's scum right now. If he's scum he can be lynched later (after removing other scum). The fact you can't see how his day vig doesn't make him near clear when he claimed it and was willing to have it negotiated is bad. What kind of scum pretty much becomes a person who can do a second lynch for the town?

^^^

The only reason sean is scum that I can't defend on is his avoidance of the thread (which I'll just guess as given up town, but main thing is overall I think he's town). Reg we agree on defender. Any desire to compromise with me?

It sounds more and more like the compromise is defender (not that GB's going to settle for that).

I don't think MoI's scum team has investigative immunity (probably belongs to the other team since no one has claimed it).

Please walk me through how you know MoI's team doesn't have it, if you can. I don't really see any indicators right now that point toward that conclusion, and the parenthesis sounds like just as much of a guess as the un-parenthesis'd part.

Town claiming NK I like since it let's us vote on it (I think triple lynches is more important then decreasing scum's ability to affect the lynch).

This is a no-brainer, anyways.

P-EDIT: I'll concede the point about the mod question, but the former point sounds more like someone who missed it in their PM and didn't want to check to make sure they're right (or at least that's the reasoning I would've used pre-flip).

[Voidedmafia]

Fucking hell, 7 pages in a span of 4-6 hours? And there's probably more while I write this wall.

For catchup Post 483[/quote] feels really underwhelming. Maybe it's just how incomplete it looks (how far is that up to, anyways?), but it doesn't make me think she's any townier.

Listen,

Defender case is that he is lurking. Seanald case actually has a LOT more to it, we can lynch Defender tomorrow, please vote Seanald today >.<

IIRC the case on Defender wasn't just that he was lurking.

Oracle bidder:
Extra voter bidder:
Governor bidder:
Investigation immunity bidder (Needs to be a town-read):
Alternative negative utility item bidder:

I should assume that these are taken already, but I'll bid on an alternate neg-utility.

Rest of pages deals with claiming stuff, blah blah. I already claimed no NK or II, and I thought I said I didn't have Oracle.

SEANALD YOU WILL BUY THE FUCKING ORACLE OR DIE!

I guess I can agree, but could someone explain the necessity for this (if this is explained by page 27 ignore this request).

NK doesn't so much work on a list because we'd need someone with maximum funds to do the bidding on it and if we put someone there who doesn't have enough money we've just fucked ourselves plus it gives scum a night kill target to prevent us holding and keeping nightkill. Also I vote on Phill or Guile or Elmo being investigated. Hate to admit it but Seanalds unprompted claim and reasoning behind it comes across as genuine.

Most of those posts on this page (Page 24, I think) feel genuine. The later posts (when he's talking about Oracle) do nag me about him possibly sounding like that to skirt by, but I think that's just paranoia or something.

Oracle bidder:

Sean

Extra voter bidder:
Governor bidder:
Investigation immunity bidder (Needs to be a town-read):
Alternative negative utility item bidder:
Tracker bidder:
Watcher bidder:

Gentlemen

Wait, who claimed Oracle?

I am not the NKer, but I accidentally PMed this to Bois. I then sent another PM to him and Magua saying that I clicked the wrong button.

...This is force-replace worthy, right?

imho i think the seanald situ will work itself out. im not really concerned about figuring it out right now.

So is this supposed to mean you don't see him as scum anymore? What changed your mind?

Reg who exactly would you want with the Investigation Immunity? At the moment I'd be fine giving it to Ice, yourself, SPB, voided, Molla, and Tammy. There are other people I wouldn't argue if they bought it those are just the people I'd be most comfortable with having it.

I'd rather not take II. If, in the coming days, your townreads on me wane then I'd prefer to be able to be investigated rather than not.

I refuse to have VM buy it. That leaves you, Mehdi. Sorry babe.

PEDIT: Don't answer Sea's question, Mehdi.

Okay, I know I don't want it, but why don't you want me to have it?

Thread locked temporarily. Don't panic.

Wut.

No way im getting what? I'm lost on that one. All I have is investigation immunity.

No NK here

Dafuq?

More or less stealing GB's little reads list, with some changes of my own.

Strong town reads:

BBMolla, The Bois, Mehdi, Stefan, Sala, Tammy.

Weaker town reads:

GreyICE, Pere, Tazaro, Pitty, GreyGnarl

Null reads:

Guile, Phillamon

Weaker scum reads

: Elmo, Eidolon, Seanald.

Strong scum reads:

D3F3nder

(Okay, that wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be.)

[Voidedmafia]

I'd volunteer for Follower or MoNA.

[Voidedmafia]

[quote="In post 689, Eidolon"

where to begin?

Well let's start with my scummy list: defender, voided, guille, tazaro.[/quote]
You can start by explaining all of these. Especially the three that aren't defender.

not really sure whats going on with the night action stuff but out of that list that GB posted, i'd prefer tracker, could do banker too i guess. I probably will have to read everything regarding setup more clearly before picking my night action though, missed night 0.

I don't feel safe giving you anything, to be honest. Maybe one of the less useful roles that wouldn't be bad in scum's hands at the least.

I won't really get too in depth with my reads unless asked, pretty sure were near a lynch so i'd rather hold out until tomorrow.

Kindly explain now.

[Voidedmafia]

VOIDEDMAFIA

I thought I was buying stuff, not transferring money?

Also we're transfering money onto scum, guaranteed.

It would be a bit of a tall order to think that we'd be giving our funds to all town, true. However, I'd be pretty sure that at most there'd be 3 scum getting money. If Slumber is scum then its likely that one (or both, assuming at least 2-3 and his team is the one that isn't MoI's) is scattered in there, but even so (or even if the other team has one of theirs in there), most of the money is still flowing from town to town.

Kindly explain now.

there's no point in broadcasting my thoughts to scum if we're about to lynch someone and i can focus better on pushing them tomorrow when i'm fully caught up.

What're you worried about, anyways?

oh sh!t.

ummmmmm. i guess i should mention this O.o

i just looked at my role pm more carefully. i cannot transfer invest or advertise.

So you're not town? That's good to know.

SK role PM last game:

Outside the System: You

may not use the Invest action (see Section IV), and you may not spend money on Advertising

(see Section V).
The Fruits of Their Labor: If the Day has an auction from Advertising (see Section V),

you will receive one usage of that ability automatically

. You may still win that auction as normal.

So she claimed SK? Cool.

do you really expect it to be exactly the same as last game?

that would be quite dull. i bet the mod really want the town to outguess him...

It'd still probably be pretty similar. I wouldn't be surprised at all.

The reason we need 1 for 1 is because say 1 player receives funds from two people. The two people have $100 and $150. According to the 95% rule, the player receiving should get about $240. Let's say they only receive $220. That means one of the players giving was fucking with them OR the person receiving is lying. Then we have to possibly go through TWO mislynches to find the scum. It leads to too much uncertainty. We need 1 person giving to 1 other person at a time.

This makes tons of sense.

SCUM (Top = most scummy)

• 1) Eidolin
  2) Seanald
  3) Guille
  4) Phillamon
  5) Elmo
  6) VoidedMafia
  7) GreyICE
  8) Pitty

I don't remember when you actually explained (or alluded to reasons as to) why I'm scum. When did that even pop up, anyways, because the first instance where you had a hint of a scumread on me was when you wanted me vigged.

Also we're transfering money onto scum, guaranteed.

It'd be unlikely that Slumber's potential parter(s) would be on the recieving end; that'd be a bit too conspicuous. If his team is the one with 3 people (and MoI wasn't on his team), I'd agree that at least one partner was getting money, but even so the amount of town transferring to town receiving is still high enough that that's not really a concern right now.

Waiiiiit I thought you had a scumread on me?

Where in his post does he indicate a read on you? Why are you acting like his ideas there in any way correlate to his read on you?

just to be clear i don't get any night killing abilities, even if it's advertised.

Die.

Just to be clear, I am going to push VEHEMENTLY for GreyICE's lynch tomorrow.

VERY VERY vehemently.

Paranoia about your plan =/= scum, certainly not with the way he's going about it. His skepticism and questions related to it feels rather natural (even if his early derision was a little bit too much than I'd like).

If you're calling him scum for other reasons then I wouldn't mind hearing them.

Mehdi don't do peoples math for them, your eliminating a way for scum to get caught.

How would that be eliminating a way for scum to get caught? If anything, if how much they're supposed to transfer is clearly stated out, then if that price isn't met then that's a clear way of outting scum.

im saying if you know the math for what everyone should transfer, and tomorrow someone claims what they got and it ended up being more or even less than what should of been transfered you'll then know they were lieing.

Then the transferer was lying and is caught scum?

Auction Investigator: Checks what that player won. x2 -

Tazaro

Blocker: Stops one player from voting another. x1 -

Gentlemen Bastards

Banker: Checks to see how much money someone has. x2 -
Sixth Sense: Targets a player and if they die you get a QT with them. x3 --

Salamance

Night-kill -

StefanB

MoNA: Cannot be tracked or watched x4 (Town-read)-
Sartor: Gives fake investigation results. x3 (Town-read) -
Follower: Tracker. x2 -
Stalker: Watcher -

Gentlemen Bastards

Wasn't I getting tracker?

Voided and Elmo post amounts. If they post anywhere else without posting here immediately then they get lynched tomorrow.

Dude, shut the fucking hell up. TWICE I've had to crawl through 5+ pages IN A ROW because you guys get post-crazy while I'm at work. Don't even think about pulling this shit on me.

If you're town then give reads on everybody. You're dying regardless though.

Also Voided is looking scummy as hell for lurking the forum and then leaving, without telling his amount. He's basically assuring the loss of efficiency

pedit Pitty thinks like me!

I"M FUCKING BUSY, OKAY?!

Anyone trying to call a lynch on me because A.) I'm having to trawl through 8 pages to get caught up and/or B.) I was doing other things as well because this thread totally has to be the center of my attention just need to fuck off. Thank you.

Now, if someone could explain when I got knocked off of buying Follower that'd be cool because I ain't seeing it.

[Voidedmafia]

(response to 2nd-to-last quote is referring to the fact I had to do this yesterday/day before that)

[Voidedmafia]

Voided, you're no longer bidding on tracker because you'll be transferring money. Speaking of which you need to claim how much you have.

And I want to know when that change happened.

[Voidedmafia]

It happened when The Bois put forward the proposal that we have people transfer money so that hopefully scums funds get drained in the process meaning we can win more auctions in the future. Plus it helps confirm how much money everyone currently has and will stop mafia bidding too highly tonight.

Mafia can still attempt to drive the price up. Even if they lose 10% of what they bid, if they can get the NK to triple-digits or close to the $200s that's still a victory for them even if they don't get the NK as Stefan might then be left with almost nothing (assuming he'll only have near to $250 by tonight, anways). Of course, if they do win it might be a pyrrhic victory, but still.

Slumber's lack of (or inability to present) reasons for why I'm a scumread does not make me eager to want to be part of his plan. I have no qualms with the plan itself (and would probably embrace this with open arms if it came from, say, yourself, GB), but there's a distinct lack of flow between "VM buys Follower" to "VM transfers money" that either I'm not getting or I missed, and I don't want to put myself in the transfer pool when I should be in the buying pool until this gets cleared up for me.

I will claim how much money I have as of now, though: $96.

P-EDIT: Oh, shut up, Sala. Losing $5 won't kill you.

Also, wrong, Seanald.

[Voidedmafia]

matt and i think you are scum.

But I don't even get where this read came from! Again, the first instance of you claiming any sort of scumread on me was when you wanted me vigged

this plan calls for town reads to be recipients of cash from nontown reads. no one who has you as a strong town read has stepped up to say that you are a better recipient than the others that have been proposed as recipients. dont see the issue here?

There's the issue of "where was this explained, or where was it explained in easily understood language" that would've helped me understand why I got shunted (or at least that's what it feels like).

and who cares if mafia drive the price up? if we have to pay in the $200s to take the nk its worth it and it will give us some ideas of who the scum who bid it up that high is.

My point was to disprove GB's point that mafia would be hesitant to bid high, not whether or not it should matter if they do.

the point with this plan is that we are keeping track of the flow of money and making people accountable for it while stockpiling it on the most likely town players in the game.

Okay, now I'm on the same page and I'm fine with it because this makes sense.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided you are transferring money because there were a good number of people who were wary of you earlier in the day.

And who were those (Besides Slumber)? I only remember maybe one other person being suspicious of me (that being Eidolon), so names, please.

With so many people agreeing to the plan you wasting time arguing is going to cost us another day while we change it.

Like I said, losing $5 isn't going to kill you nor Sala (well, it'd kill BB, I guess, but then he's some kind of miller vig that's more or less only useful for his shot until shown otherwise, so). I'd rather understand a plan even if it'd cost a day than go into it just for the sake of a couple extra bucks and potentially completely screw it up, wouldn't you?

Stop trying to turn this into a reason to call me scummy. It's stupid, it's senseless, and it's more useless than what you're trying to call me useless for. If you have some other reason to call me scummy, then please start saying such because I haven't seen anything (besides this) indicating I'm scummy from people who're alive, only GB's case that I'm town, and it's annoying.

You didn't do anything to help your towniness by wall-posting right there. If that's how you play then fine, but understand that it comes across as a bit scummy.

...You didn't even read the bottom part of it, did you?

[Voidedmafia]

you're being shallow. Losing the efficiency bonus costs the town $75. That's like a whole ability.

Um, we're nowhere near losing the entire thing?

It's only be 6-7 days. We're still getting at least $30-$35 if defender is hammered today. That's still enough to potentially buy an ability/put down a minimum bid, or enough to be worth investing/transferring. Of course I'd like to have a little extra cash in my pocket for tonight, but again, I'm not going to take that small bit just to go through with a plan I haven't understood entirely when that lack of understanding could cost us the game. That's an entirely reasonable stance to take.

If I'm somehow being shallow (which I'm not), you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

P-EDIT

And FTR I have you as a weak townread. I'm a bit hesitant to give Slumber so much control but the plan seems pretty good.

Even so...

1) It does not matter why anyone thinks you are scummy right now, we will discuss it tomorrow. The only thing you have to understand is that the 8 players on the mission are considered townier than you. Therefore you will be transferring money.

Be that as it may, I can't just let people say I'm suspect without at least one decent reasoning behind it. Especially because I've yet to recieve such a reason from

you

.

2) You needing explanation for this is a waste of money. It is not worth it, we will discuss it tomorrow

It's a waste of money to ensure that all facets of the plan will go as smoothly as possible?

3) If you do not in your next post agree to the plan proposed then you will be PLd tomorrow, which is against any wincon you have

Ignoring the obvious fact that this is not PL material, I already stated agreement when I said this plan made sense to me. Here, in case you missed it:

I agree.

[Voidedmafia]

Again, the information we need is being stalled. This should of been handled a long time ago.

The plan was only brought up maybe 12 hours ago, more or less. And I've only had time to be around to discuss it for maybe 5 of those 12. Pardon me for wanting clarification.

pedit: Each time we lose the efficiency bonus, Town is essentially deprived of $75 or probably $70 if you assume 6 scums.

Six scum doesn't equal $70?

[Voidedmafia]

14 townies does.

Oh, okay. I'm just using the wrong number, derp.

You know what would own? If Elmo actually showed up in this thread and posted clear compliance with the plan.

We can only hope he will <_<

What I'm trying to say is that it's not just VM.

Difference being that I was trying to understand the plan before giving assent while Elmo hasn't even bothered to do anything of importance beyond two more-or-less throwaway posts? Point being that my "stalling" had a purpose (to further my understanding of Slumber's plan), while Elmo's just...not doing anything, including not being here.

[Voidedmafia]

Nobody is policy lynching you. The reason I was upset is because you spent so much time making that fucking wall yesterday, but didn't understand the plan.

That was Slumber who said that, not you, I know.

Perhaps I missed something there (having to trawl through 8 pages does not help in focused reading of the posts within those pages), but even so.

[Voidedmafia]

anyways, I can vote defender to L-1 today if need be.

[Voidedmafia]

I'd have to look at his iso more clearly but i do find that to be suspicious. Now, i'm gonna go read up on whats been happening. I see voided is refusing the plan. why? And now you all can continue to call me scummy so that i won't be night killed, tyvm.

I think the only thing to be seen is your inability to read my posts.

But please, do point out wherever I stated I was or would refuse the plan.

[Voidedmafia]

We are not doing Phillamon.

I only agree inasmuch as I'm not entirely sure enough people would be willing to switch to Phillamon in time while keeping as much of the efficiency bonus as possible. I get the case on Philla (and the meta on defender looks convincing enough to not vote him for now), but at this point its a matter of mustering enough people rather that mustering a good case.

I'll help in the right direction, though.

Vote: Philla

someone who bid unsuccessfully, did your returned funds come with a decimal or did magua cleanly round/truncate your losses?

My funds did not return as a decimal (I'd think that'd be hell for Magua, anyways).

It's a worthy sacrifice when I think the lynch is wrong. I don't. The only scum meta you have on d3fender looks like his first game on site. When there's only one scum game to contrast his town meta and it's pretty much his first game that doesn't remove my scum read on him.

but isn't this meta showing what he does as town to show how his actions are townish that scummy?

Look, being a man who plays (In his opinion) good scum, I can tell good reads from bad. Defender's were really bad.

I don't think anyone has denied that.

For example,

BBMolla almost tricked town out of his lynch, even when he was a confirmed guilty

.

Confirmed guilty? Most I recall BB being confirmed as is having a dayvig. Anything else regarding his role has yet to be proven true beyond his claims.

Anyone that doesn't follow this plan is confscum (added with all lurkers/fluffers, such as Eld, Elmo, etc.)

Who died and made you master?

P-EDIT: That works as well.

[Voidedmafia]

I was stating MLP:FiR, where BBMolla was investigated by me and came up guilty, and he kept his cool and almost persuaded the town not to lynch him because I was lying. Scum will do anything when their backs are against the wall.

Oh, not this game. Mah bad.

Fuck you. I hope you understand "The plan" means transfer money, buy, etc.

Point remains.

I'm not lynching Elmo right now. We can force more out of him tomorrow. I'm not settling with a sloppy lynch. So if it's not Elmo and it's not GreyICE, I'm willing to go for:

1) VoidedMafia

It would probably help your case if you actually explained this one -_-.

Seriously. Half of what I started therefore 50

What the hell did you bid on? Closes $50 value is Neighborizer, but that's $58.

[Voidedmafia]

Slumber, I don't particularly mind your plan, but it just feels too last-minute that I don't like it.

No one have problems with my hammering?

P-EDIT: Guess not.

Vote: Defender

[Voidedmafia]

scum probably have the doctor.

100% false.

On that note, scum (either team) have the RB, most definitely.

Also, I transferred my money to Peregrine as ordered.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided, the RB is SPB.

THen how the fuck did GB die? Unless scum or the potential SK have an inherent Hitman he should be alive.

Vote: SlumberBois

[Voidedmafia]

hey you stupid fuck

when the person with the roleblock has you as a top scumread and you have something crucial like doctor, maybe claim it?

Well, sorry for wanting to hold onto that particular card until today at the earliest.

Unvote

[Voidedmafia]

To be honest, I was hoping more that I wouldn't be RB'd, but mmrrph.

So, now do I get to understand why I'm scum, or am I going to be left in the dark till I presumably get lynched? Eidolon explaining her reads would also be lovely.

P-EDIT: Or was scum <_<

[Voidedmafia]

This game isn't abandoned?

the hell made you think that? (and if you are serious about that, get the fuck out.)

Mehdi: True. Just need to wait for Stefan to say so.

[Voidedmafia]

^It's shit like this that makes me think Voided is scum.

Because I'm pissed that you're making a joke about this game being abandoned?

[Voidedmafia]

^It's shit like this that makes me think Voided is scum.

Because I'm pissed that you're making a joke about this game being abandoned?

Yep. Scum get more pissy about shit, town are more relaxed.

BB, you know as well as I do that that isn't true in all cases, nevermind that I'm honestly upset that you're cracking a joke about this game when at least 5 other people here (myself included) were probably waiting their hearts out for this game.

I did not get the nightkill, I only got second place.

At least I have a good idea of who I'll protect tonight, then.

SHOOT SEANALD AFTER HE CLAIMS HIS INVESTIGATION.

You are aware he still has one more shot left, ya?

Molla, how do you feel about shooting Elmo?

Doesn't feel like this is too bad a shot. Nothing he said yesterday makes me against this shot, at least.

D3F3ND3R, townier looking closer to the end than before.

Do you agree with GB's meta case on him, or is this based on your own ISOing?

[Voidedmafia]

BB, you know as well as I do that that isn't true in all cases, nevermind that I'm honestly upset that you're cracking a joke about this game when at least 5 other people here (myself included) were probably waiting their hearts out for this game.

You also seem to forget that I did nothing last night due to nomoney and notbeingscum, so while you were doing stuffs I was sitting here. Your reaction to the joke is still ridiculous bro.

That still doesn't explain how my response is scummy.

And since thread search sucks for the forums, did someone claim winning neighborizor yesterday?

Not that I'm aware of.

How many people do we have that could for sure not have killed whatshisface last night?

AKA, who recieved an ability N0 and were pretty sure they legitimately did?

Me.

Also, practically everyone claimed they didn't have the NK yesterday, so this topic is IMO pointless.

Unless you want me to transfer again, I'd be willing to buy Blind Bid (or any negative utility role) to keep it out of scum's hands.

[Voidedmafia]

In fact, I want bulletproof. Discuss.

And you're not a better recipient than:
-me, the doc who is a likely to die tonight to get rid of the doctor shot
-Seanald, the cop with one more shot left (who doesn't die until D3 after his results are outted, anyways)
-Slumber, Mehdi, Tammy, etc. who are obvtown and obvious NK choices

How?

Can you explain tomorrow? For now I'm just going with trust you, but I do want to have some vague idea of why.

Because, as you already know, I am a weak town player, but powerful with PRs. If I have a way to keep myself protected, I can become a thorn in the scum's side.

No matter your record, there's not garauntee of that.

If she neighborizes me I can then neighborize someone else and be a stream of info (assuming qt posts can be quoted the separate qts are close enough to being one qt with just a bit more work). I also would like to buy the neighborizer role for night 2, but I lack the money to win it over scum likely. Which is why whoever buys the neighborizer role tonight is the person I want to neighborize (anyone they neighborize can be added to that qt). I personally want SDB to have that power.

No I didn't get to talk to GB. Neighborhood qts aren't made until day start and with him dead I didn't get one.

A Neighbor ring (of sorts). I like that idea and endorse it.

Is there a reason we're not advocating the bulletproof going to someone more likely to die? Say the doctor or dabois?

Because I have a plan. I need bulletproof.

That still doesn't make you a better choice than Slumber/Mehdi, who I'm more inclined to give the BP to.

Unless they didn't transfer becasue GB was their recipient

Read on slumber is gut. (Also not sure where you get the initials SDP from.)

That's still circumstancial right now. I get that you don't trust him, but you're gonna need more than that to change my read, at least.

btw voided, tonight you are doccing whoever has the fattest wad to drop on the nk and ensure we get it.

And who's that right now?

If you are town, you need to trust me.

No I don't. I don't care how much you're going to cry "reasons," you're not a better BP target until I hear them.

YOU KNOW WHAT. IM PISSED.

I have medium.

I use medium on Mehdi and SPB.

...That doesn't change my mind at all. Nevermind why you didn't use it on GB.

/ragequit

Confirming SPB as town by killing him and then letting him talk for another day is so dumb.

Agreed.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I saw another game he replaced out of in the queue. I don't think he'd do it just because he was scum when he was looking forward to his game.

He does hate being scum. I do agree with you--he wouldn't replace out because of that--but I can imagine that it'd lower his will to play.

heeeeeyyyyyy mooooollllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I dun get it.

Are you saying you wouldn't die if you are indeed obvtown? Because last time I checked, that's why you die in mafia.

No, and I probably won't now because of WIFOM

Its one thing for obvtown to die.

It's something else to have obvtown INTENTIONALLY die just for you to be less of an idiot.

Peregrine
About Blind Bind: Can the one who wins it, choose to not use it, or is it compulsive?

i don't think it's compulsive. Which is good.

Not liking Guille based on these posts. Really this day goes nowhere without Seanald. If he posts without claiming his cop move then he dies immediately.

Have a point here.

(and this is why you don't put off these kind of things when there's 5 pages to get through.)

[Voidedmafia]

so your going to waste another use of the COP ability? shoot me the next day, and if your so sure im scum why not use your efforts to find another one?

He has a point.

I won't deny that you may be right, Slumber. Seanald may be scum. However, I'm not in the mindset of wasting a cop result just to ease my sense of paranoia. If he's town, we get two conftowns or a conftown and confscum. If he's scum, I'm sure we still have other means of ensuring that the results he gets are actually true.

Besides, according to our (yours and mine) townreads, no scum have any previously auctioned Neighborizers, and if things go well town will be getting Neighborizer tonight. BB can dayvig Seanald tomorrow, that's fine (assuming he can, anyways); however, it's not worth it today. Elmo's a much better shot.

[Voidedmafia]

We can Vig Elmo first and then Lynch Phil if his contribution is not satisfying..

I like this plan. I'd admittedly prefer offing eid to Elmo as his role doesn't sound like one I'd like to keep for an extended period of time, but either one works for me.

[Voidedmafia]

5. Voidedmafia

Incredibly unrelentingly townie. Masses of walls,

Did you even read them, by chance?

piled on to MoI's scumslip.

I did?

Plus you forgot to mention that having cop and then having Neighborizer advertised is fucking ridiculous. SEAN IS SCUM. Actually we should vig him because then everybody will pile on Elmo and we get efficiency.

Seanald advertised Neighborizer? When did that happen?

Look, seanald is ONLY dangerous if we cannot garauntee that town is getting the neighborizer AND that either A.) his scumteam gets it or B.) the other scumteam gets it/has it and selects one of his scumteam. If it turns out that we cannot, then go ahead and vig him (or lynch if Molla already shot someone else). If we can, then we let him get his other investigation, have him out it first thing, then have him be the lynch D3 or have Molla insta-vig him right after.

I'm not saying i don't understand yours and Slumber's reasoning here--I do. However, I'm not going to allow us to lynch/vig someone who still has a cop shot left and whose conditions for being insta-lynched/vigged haven't been met yet; at the very least I'm not going to support it, anyways.

On that note, we ARE letting Tammy get neighborizer, right?

If Elmo is today's lynch I propose Eidolon gets vigged. Regardless of whatever his role may or may not be, I'd rather not have him around for long (plus his ISO is terrible). My vote is more or less interchangable on either of them, as I'd want whichever isn't vigged to be lynched today.

Vote: Elmo

[Voidedmafia]

Yes, I did read the walls,

And you are basing your read on what's iin the walls?

and I could have sworn that that was a bulk of your interaction with MoI. My apologies if not. My notes were vague.

...No it was not.

Why is Phillamon scum?

Who said that?

Oh, Eid is a bad shot because she's not SK

I have no reason to think she's (he's?) town, either. Still a perfectly good shot.

Greynarl any last words?

Lower your guns, here. There're better people to shoot.

-snip-

Why exactly are dead players in this?

K.

Shot sent.

Goodbye.

...You better not have shot GG.

[Voidedmafia]

BBmolla is like a van gogh. Sorta a genious but something is fuckin off lol. I actually don't believe he shot anyone.

It'd be best to assume that he shot unless it's proven otherwise (as in, until the mod posts next).

Tams, I think Elmo's been set as the lynch. We're just waiting on the vig.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided: I will be doing a reread of you, then, but my read on you based on the wall content was less on the specific people you were hunting but the fact that you were putting effort into hunting, which in my experience is very protown.

Well, that's fine. I just wanted to make sure you were calling me town because of what was in the walls, not just because I was.

[Voidedmafia]

Who was supposedly supposed to protect either SPB or GB?

*facepalm*

[Voidedmafia]

...Just read the beginning of Day 2, FFS.

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, the doc claim was in one of VM's ilk of longer posts.

Or, yknow, you could've read SPB's shorter posts instead of being a lazy ass <_<.

[Voidedmafia]

Yes that is correct

I am going to advocate a Phil lynch today. But I don't have time to build a case right now. There is no need to rush, we have plenty of time anyway

Why Phil and not Elmo?

Seanald shouldn't be lynched til day 3. Voided should also receive money instead of PV.

I'll probably just invest tonight, too.

[Voidedmafia]

Yknow you can just read post 1500 which I posted 5 mins before you to know the answer to that question NBD

That doesn't answer why you're pushing Phil instead of Elmo. That only tells me that you want to get a clear read on Phil. Entirely different things (related, maybe, but still different).

[Voidedmafia]

Probably in Pitty, Peregrine, Mehdi, Tammy, Slumber, GG, Sala. Somewhere around there.

(Mehdi and Tammy only in there because paranoia says they must.)

[Voidedmafia]

you named like the whole game lol.

7 people out of 17 still alive?

[Voidedmafia]

You named mainly the townier portion. Sean my pool of interest is eid, philla, tazaro, and sham. Sham looks most town of the four. Tazaro I'm just doubting some for gut.

Those were really just the first names I thought of. Eid, taz, and GI/Nero should be on the list.

[Voidedmafia]

First people you can think of are more likely to be town for content remembered so mentioning them is bad.

The only people I really thought were town in my list were you and Tammy. Rest may have been townreads but they weren't solid townreads.

I still don't really trust PV too much, although he's not in that first pool.

If you mean mine, I did include him.

[Voidedmafia]

Blind Bid x1(Day): For the Night, only you can see the current bid for auctions. To everyone else, it will be hidden. This will be announced in-thread. Other players will be informed if they are, or are not, the highest bidder as normal.

Useless since we are organizing our bids. Nobody bid on this please.

For the sake of not allowing scum to potentially fuck with us, this needs to be bid on.

Player	Buying	Receiving Money From
Greygnarl	Night-kill	Voided

Last I checked I was getting money, not sending.

HOLY SHIT! Molla is a fucking scum. It says that scum have no night-kill but it doesn't say shit about a day-kill. It's like the perfect balancing factor due to the fact that it is one shot instead of everyday. And what better way to become unsuspected then by letting the town direct the kill onto our buddy?

A.) Why would scum ever willingly shoot their own buddy? I know there are people who can (and will) hard bus a partner to a lynch, but doing so with a vig-shot is almost counter-productive and too hard a bus.

B.) ...Not really, it isn't.

Not at all. He is now confirmed beyond on a doubt and the fact that he has no more shots make him a non threat to scum so there is a reason he won't get NKed. And originally, it didn't even seem like MoI was going to be shot. It was more likely it would be Elmo or Seanald. Once he said town could direct the shot he had no chance to but to shoot MoI. He probably just decided that the bus was for the best.

...right.

[Voidedmafia]

Why do you have $8?

Elmo's claim of having $50 left + Mod's wage/bonus granting of $100 - transfering of $142 = $8

Well that was just plain retarded of him.

Oh, another realization with the current strategy which is potentially really bad: scum will probably be locked down from winning any auctions for a few days, but any scum recipients can invest every night meanwhile, and that'll give the scum enough money to absolutely blow out an auction some time in the future if they want to. This is not necessarily a disaster, but at that point we'll have to defeat scum entirely with day play. If several voting-related roles end up in unknown hands, we should move to purely FoSes until we've decided on a lynch. (That's not necessary yet, though, and we shouldn't do it until we have to because it'll hurt efficiency.)

I think (well, I hope) that by that time we'd have a good pool of obvtown/conftown reads to transfer to that should be able to keep up with such absurd money amounts. I'm not certain, but I'd hope.

For anyone who was watching the bid amounts change realtime night 0: how early in the night was Cop bid on? I'm busy trying to work out the Seanald situation. Definitely, he's either scum, or scum are trying really hard to implicate him. Given the disjointed scumteam, possibly both!

IIRC it was bid on before the 1st update. Definitely before the 2nd.

P-edit: Cop had a bid of 1 I think for the first two parts of the night. It wasn't until near the end a second person even bidded (doc wasn't bid on at all until the end of the night). Only powers that were bid on early I think were neighborizer, II, and rb (maybe double voter and gov too).

No, I bid on Doc before the 2nd update. I did up my bid total before the final one, though.

VOTE: Phillammon

I felt like I waffled on my stance on he..

Now know BBmolla is the one who is shown as most early voting for Phillammon. Now want people to note if BBmolla had a compelling case?

Huh?

@Voidedmafia: Just noticed that you didn't actually explicitly claim to protect GB last night, just strongly implied it. Can you confirm that you protected GB last night?

Yes.

[Voidedmafia]

I think sean has become the lazy out and scum read for a lot of people when the original reasons I argued against and since then there hasn't been more there really (problem is his death clears two people if he gets two innocents which makes it a worthy death later but earlier on that wasn't true at all).

For me personally I just haven't been impressed by his play or posts, and I think that the only reason he's not up to be lynched is because of that cop shot. Regardless of my read of him or his ability as a player, I'd still want that shot to go off in case his actually is town and we can then get two conftowns (so long as they're not shot, either, anyways).

Or the fact I'm a neighborizer and had planned to target GB way before the plan originated and I already explained me giving money to him.

So you not only transferred all of your money to Gentleman, he was also your neighbor target? All your eggs in one basket seems counterintuitive, since if he was so townie he would be targeted for the NK, why not neighbor Slumber and transfer Genteleman, or vice versa?

Well, it should also be made aware that really the only reason this failed is a lack of communication between Slumber and me, so...

Actually, that would be Voided's claim. You arguing "he needs cash, he's broke" seems to be coming as if you think it is reality.

Well, I AM broke until we get our monies tonight. What's youre point.

If voided thought Matt was town, then why not say he's the doc?

If you read on, this is explained. (And no, i don't give a fuck that I'm post facto answering for Mehdi, you seriously could've read on a couple pages more to answer this.)

Oh my fucking Jesus, Peregrine is just shooting in the dark to try to deflect attention. He suddenly has a million things to say about the game when cfj questions his alignment? Yeah sure.He's coming up with a million scenarios that make little sense, he's attacking Voided saying that he should've claimed doc. He's attacking Mehdi because he transferred which is a bit weird. However, if Mehdi was scum why would he say that? To look like really dumb town?
VOTE: Peregrine

Interestingly enough, he's done this kind of stupid attack before (or something rather similar). Check Words With Scum, where he attacks me and calls me scum for my tracking of who has what tiles since D1 (we were both town there).

I agree that what he's doing is stupid, retarded, etc. but I wouldn't call it scummy yet.

[Voidedmafia]

So it's all "just bad luck" in your opinion?

What does "back luck" have to do with anything?

All I see is that you've grown a penchant for attacking people for stupid things, and/or doing said attacks long after they're actually viable.

[Voidedmafia]

-snip-

Nice way to ignore Mehdi's question.

CFJ keeps looking townier with each post I read as of page 70

Nero feels meh as of page 70. Not entirely sure if I like his attack on Peregrine. Considering the slot itself is Eidolon's I still feel like he should just be offed, but think I'm in the minority on that.

its ok...well give you time to search through the thread so you can copy the fake claim..

Lol. You're still dying tomorrow after you out your results, btw.

You keep on about Seanald being confirmed scum. I don't know, but he's probably going to be lynched purely because he bought the cop. Do you agree or disagree?

...No?

Pretty sure that the reasons we're lynching Seanald have almost nothing to do with him having cop; that's just an unfortunate coincidence. There might be reasons related, but last I remember that wasn't the main reason why.

also just thought of this, wanted to put it out there. if town have the night kill ability. would we wan't to just keep no lynching the days and winning the night kill over and over while we keep the best town reads investing? or something to that effect know what im trying to get at?

And if at least one scum gets in as one of the townreads, they can just as well get enough to outbid most everyone, and then after a certain number of days use any NKs they've bought by the plan or on their own.

The problem with Seanald's idea is that it probably wouldn't drain scum's money. We drain the proportion of their money that a townie would have, but we know they have more money than us (as evidenced by them winning the NK for such a lot of money), and they can invest the rest, which will grow exponentially while our money doesn't because we keep bidding on things instead. And things go spectacularly wrong if a single player in the "townie half" of the game is actually scum, as they can make $1 bids and invest absolutely everything else, for a fortune they can subsequently share with their scumteam to let them afford transfers while doing other things at the same time. If we're following this particular breaking strategy, we want to get through the game as quickly as we can (and if town gets NK control, it should be used for vigging people).

@Mehdi: I guess the most sensible thing to do is to force Nero to buy one of the abilities we care the least about (vote freezer is a good idea, as it's 100% confirmable), and use one of the town half for advertising. That way we leave Nero occupied too, which is good because some people are concerned about the slot (although the claim seems very not-Mafia to me and is confirmable) and he can't transfer.

I agree with both paragraphs.

Vote: Shamrock

[Voidedmafia]

I dont understand the first part. or why it says snip.

Because I cut out everything in that post because it's only relevance is that it contains nothing that SHOULD be there.

and you do realize that same possibility can happen with the plan we are following now? and my plan had good intentions, no one brought up No lynches before.

So, what stops scum from investing as well? At some point, like CFJ said, they'll have enough that they can just steamroll over us for the rest of the items. And at that point, unless we're good with lynches it'd really only take good NK shots from the shots we do have to get rid of them.

that whole post was you putting more fire onto targets already lit on fire, useless post to look like your doing something.

Shamrock dies today, you die tomorrow, Eidolon/Nero dies somethime in the future. I have a big bunch of townreads that haven't really changed much (at least at the "solid" to "obvtown in my eyes" area; weaker townreads have shifted about, either getting stronger or weaker or turning to null/scumreads).

You have a point here?

[Voidedmafia]

The preceding post doesn't feel long enough. Did I miss someone?

No.

BTW, Phillammon just committed a moderately strong objective scumtell. (Look at where his vote is, then look at his reads list.)

He just got back. He'll notice soon enough. <_<

[Voidedmafia]

All the shit being piled on Phil on the last two pages is just that: shit.

I don't want GG buying the NK now.

[Voidedmafia]

Could we alternatively have it in the opposite direction, gnarl. What is it over the last few pages that made me suddenly scum?

yeah, and all my fans can go ahead and answer this, since nobody squeaked day1 about me being scum, for me to "suddenly" appear that way seems like you are more jumping on a wagon than bothering to scumhunt.

Well, there is the problem of your attack on Mehdi that was kinda out of nowhere and really didn't go anywhere at all, so I wouldn't call it "suddenly."

Well, IIRC GreyICE isn't usually a VI. So if he's being weird rather than contributing that's a scumtell in its own right.

THat is a fair point. Even so, I still found some of his spec to be townish even if I didn't really like his attitude toward BB (I know I wasn't too keen either, but I wasn't outright going "LIAR LIAR LIAR QUIT LYING!")

I'd prefer watcher over Oracle, to be honest. I know it's good to be aware of what we're getting, but as CFJ said its a pretty powerful PR in town's hands.

Also, remind me how much is advertised on Cop again?

[Voidedmafia]

No one is getting policy lynched, GG. Stop making stupid threats.

[Voidedmafia]

thoughts on if we claim doc/rb for last night? im thinking we dont disclose so scum have to wonder which of the 3 possible things blocked their kill.

Much agreed.

I won my ability.

I still feel like Seanald should die next to test the validity of his claims, but if you have any other ideas I'm willing to listen.

P-EDIT: I imagine there would be people who'd think it'd be possible, GG. That's kind of a necessary precaution.

Duplicate post deleted.

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, FFS.

I am not reading over nearly 10 PAGES that you managed to eke out in 4 GODDAMN HOURS.

Smoeone just give me cliff notes, please.

[Voidedmafia]

Deas didn't target me, current lynch interests lean towards sean (although primarily just for guille confirmation right now), PV, deas somewhat, philla, and tazaro (although this is more of a good cop target list, but it works lynch wise too). Plan went well besides deas's blunder and all powers went where desired (ex: grey has the nk, and tammy is the new neighborizer). Grey's nk will be directed by town reads but no one else (although they can talk if desired though) Sean investigated cfj (the guy with the GF ability) and got innocent. Personal lean says PV works best lynch wise today.

More set up discussion now on what to advertise, the fact that 3rd parties aren't caught by cops makes molla unlikely 3rd party.

That about covers it.

Thank you, Mehdi. (SLUMBER, STOP POSTING SO GODDAMN MUCH!)

As for advertising, why not advertise watcher next?

In regards to Sean, we have 2 conftowns until proven otherwise? Okay. Really wish he went for someone like Tazaro or something instead of CFJ, but confirmation of the town feelings I had on him is always nice.

PV: I was supposed to send $196, and that's what I sent. $187 does sound correct since it rounds down.

Not exactly feeling a PV lynch today. If we don't lynch Seanald, I think I'd rather go for DV (already wanted Eid dead, so) or Tazaro (feels more iffy to me than PV does, his wrongful spat with Mehdi notwithstanding).

N: ...why...?

[Voidedmafia]

Actually cfj isn't confirmed town. Cfj is the guy with investigation immunity and that's why it was such a stupid move.

How is cancelling bids possible? That and I thought it was advertise oracle.

Oh. Well, he dies then.

Vote: Seanald

Everything else I said is still okay; I just got the terms 'accountant' and 'oracle' mixed up; not sure why.

...how...?

That reveals something interesting. Assuming you're telling the truth scum likely bid on a lot of things with low amounts in case the original bidder bidded low.

Implying that that was all scum (either team) had to spare in the Neighborizer war?

Who did bid on accountant, then?

[Voidedmafia]

dkhe'sscum

So why unvote?

[Voidedmafia]

If you are insinuating I could be uncertain of Seanald's being scum without necessarily unvoting from him, then additionally, I am prepared to vote for one in {VM, greygnarl}

Why me, again? I don't overly recall if you suspected me before (or if you did it was in those 8 pages that I'm not going to read -_-), so...

Phil-->a TOWN member
To me, he doesn't really have a presence. However, in assessing a person who doesn't really have a presence, I find that a non-present person is relatively unlikely to be scum if they are eager to, without fear of being called a busser, put their vote to someone who in that person's mind might turn out to be scum, which is what Shamrock turned out to be.

So, either' Phil's down or he's left-hand mafia to you?

[Voidedmafia]

^^ I think you can be a LEFT member. IT's PINGINESs
I don't think Phil is a LEFT.

...Because...?

[Voidedmafia]

And me?

[Voidedmafia]

Compare the excerpt from Phillammon with your input about MoI:

Oh look--it's greygnarl that you responded to. Ooh ooh

...So why does it matter that I responded to GG?

Also, if you are aware, I did not believe the slip until after MoI flipped scum. Unless you believe I was doing some distancing from Moi, this doesn't really make much sense from a scum POV.

[Voidedmafia]

...So why does it matter that I responded to GG?

I could have no trouble associating you with greygnarl in my pondering

Okay, so I respond to GG with a firm denial of the plan to daykill MoI. Why does that give you associative tells with GG?

Let's do this, shall we?

VOTE: greygnarl

...Why are you trying to lynch the guy with the NK right now?

[Voidedmafia]

What better way to stymie suspicion than to get the NK and choose not to kill with it?

...But GG just got it today?

So, since we now know for a fact that

DV

and

Seanald

are scum due to DV's scumslip, we can be FAIRLY certain that scum have communicated with each other due to DV's ability (unless Seanald and DV are on opposing teams, but we will know whether they are or not by tomorrow). That doesn't look very good for

Tazaro

:S

THat's not exactly a slip? I'll agree it's concerning (and most likely a damning piece of evidence against DV), but I don't quite see how it's a scumslip.

So jeez, doesn't look good for Guille either. The weird thing is that Tazaro and DV didn't start buddying up to Seanald / slipping until today, which would only make sense if

Tazaro and DV are on the opposite scumteam of Seanald and didn't start communicating with him until last night via the Neighborhood

, which fits in perfectly with everything else in this scenario.

Remind me, who has the neighborizers right now, used or not?

We need to buy a protective role and the NK btw.

Obviously. You're not getting either, though.

taxaro goes before dv for the reasons matt said. we lynch tazaro over sean because scum were expecting the sean lynch today. this is the financial gutpunch.

How would lynching Sean instead of Tazaro screw up any potential plans that scum would have? Are you guessing that Tazaro has the most funds of his scumteam (or at least more than Seanald)?

I'm saying that people who got transfers from people who aren't obvtown like you need to be wary. Not people who got money from you.

Seanald's stupidly failed investigate aside, why isn't CFJ clear town to you again?

This list work?

I really only object to GG getting the NK. I understand that Tammy may not have the same amount of money as him but I'd prefer it if she got it instead of him.

Will the Mafia even contest the NK? You might say they have to but it's easily possible for us to keep pooling money and keep it away from them.

Why wouldn't they? Before you start talking about how you won it easily last night, and while it's true that neighborizer was a clear priority, that doesn't mean that scum aren't going to try to get the NK anymore. It's folly to think like that.

It's very possible that scum all transferred/invested last night to snag the NK tonight, keep that in mind.

I can agree to this. As I said, scum still have to have their sights on the NK even if it wasn't top priority for one night. Any lack of competition for it should mean that we should up our guard for the next night or two.

I see you screwing up in WiH too and it's funny.

whoa, there, boy. Calm that tongue.

Let's just say if I were scum my scumteam would LOATHE me right now for being the worst sport and largest backstabber in the world

Surprisingly enough, I'm not that much of an asshole

...Actually, this is a pretty fair point. Bois's plan back on D1, even if it was made to help at least his own scumteam as much as possible, is still VERY sided toward helping town.

Would it be drastically anti-town for me to keep the vote freeze...?

What if I promise to use it before LYLO or anything like that?

Why the fuck would it be and why the fuck wouldn't you use it now?

Speaking of vote-related things, I should hold onto nullfier, yea/nay?

Need a bit more elaboration on the slip SPB's talking about. Largely because I don't think I'm quite understanding it.

P-EDIT:...

[Voidedmafia]

@SPB: That's not a slip, they bid on the vote freeze last night like the plan indicated. (It is a weird withholding of information, though.)

OOOH I thought they did that N1

Nvr mnd pls proceed

Pedit: I know BBmolla but you gotta sacrifice for the love of town

So...is there no slip or did you just go for the wrong thing?

[Voidedmafia]

So...is there no slip or did you just go for the wrong thing?

I don't understand what this is supposed to insinuate. I misinterpreted when he stated he bought the vote freeze.

You said there was a scumslip by DV that seems to have more or less directed your entire lynch plan from page 90 or so. Is what we just disccussed (when he bought the vote freeze) the slip in question or is that something else?

[Voidedmafia]

Now we're back to Seanald instead of GG/me?

[Voidedmafia]

If we're not lynching Seanald.

VOte: Tazaro

[Voidedmafia]

I was told I received cop at the beginning of Night 3. I was told I could use it that night.

Basically, if an ability is available for auction because of it being advertised, I get to use it once, and am able to on the same night I get it if I wish.

So, I have not been told anything about the oracle, but I think it's likely I will get it Night 4 (unless maybe it would have been up for auction without advertisement? I'm not sure about this though).

Sounds far too much like the SK role in the first go-around.

[Voidedmafia]

Also, I won my ability.

I'm...slightly confused as to why Messenger was so contested rather than the NK. I'd think it'd imply that scum does NOT have any neighborization with the other team (otherwise they could just use that to communicate). It is possible that they were trying to drive the price up, but again, why do that on Messenger and not on the NK?

Wage Freeze is slightly more understandable, i suppose. I still advocate using it ASAP to lock in our efficiency.

I think I get oracle the following night. I got cop last night.

Wait, how can you get cop last night when Mag said that it didn't complete (if Last night means N3)?

Sounds far too much like the SK role in the first go-around.

Hasn't this already been discussed?

Well, duh, I know that. I'm simply noting how it still fits with the role.

Or you're on the same team as sean. Anyways what really will confirm you is the oracle thing tomorrow. Right now no one should have a NK (I doubt grey lost with over 400 to bid with). Main thing besides the lynch is bidding plans which will be similar to yesterday (I like that system of bidding). Although as for who gets the NK I want tammy to. She should be able to afford it (yeah I know her money as well I know mine now).

Generally agree with this post.

@N: Please claim a complete history of all your money, where it came from, and where it went. Also whether you won the abilities last night (and how much you bid on each).

Mehdi asked before me, but why? WHat exactly are you trying to learn by getting this?

Either deas is town and pitty is scum, he's scum and lying and can die tomorrow, or both are scum. So no matter what she or deas dies now and I think she should more then deas..

Isn't it still possible that Deas is scum/3rd party actually telling the truth?

[Voidedmafia]

Vote: Pitty

[Voidedmafia]

Actually, perhaps not. We don't know whether scum can pool money. If they can, it might help them outbid town on an important ability like the NK because we'd have one townie bidding against two scum.

Were you supposed to buy it, or?

[Voidedmafia]

@Voided: Tammy was meant to buy it, and she did. We're debating whether using it is a good idea or not.

How'd you know she bought it before she said so?

[Voidedmafia]

What's that last quote for?

[Voidedmafia]

Thinking about it, Watcher is only useful if we miss getting the NK. (Note that it's possible/probable? there won't be a 7th ability, as the number of abilities has been reducing over time, so shouldn't we have the 7th ability as one of the repeats to avoid the requirement to repeat?)

If there's no 7th ability then I think I shouldn't be double bidding.

I agree that Accountant is a pretty strong ability for the town, and something that may well be worth advertising.

Though, if we do miss getting the NK, do you think advertising for Watcher is a good idea?

Also shouldn't we have more players transferring? The plan works better if we cut down on the money supply to possible scummy players, and at least Phillammon and Peregrine have been suspected in the past.[/quote]

yeah. we need transfers to me, tammy, and voided at the least. probably n as well. other played im okay with money getting transfered to are mehdi and cfj. everyone else should be transferring and everyone should be stating if theyve gotten the transfers they were supposed to.

I know I'm waiting on a confirmation of a transfer from Pitty, at least.

I'm happy to bid on stuff since I can't do anything else.

And even having money transferred to me of course.

Who said you'd get to do or have either of these?

Based on 2573, it'd look like I'm gonna have to transfer instead of buying things, as is the 6th buyer slot.

Without Oracle, we can't easily aim bids to that level of complexity. I don't thing Magua's repeated abilities all game yet, right (except for advertising?).

Well, vote freeze and vote nullifier just came up again. Hell, I distinctly remember claiming D2/D3 that I won nullifier and vote freeze was used on you that same day, so...

Also, Vote Nullifier is very valuable for scum, as it can be used by scum to outright win lylo. (See the effect on the lynch threshold?) Governor and Love Potion can also each win a 3p lylo.

I can agree on this. Grey tried using Love Pot on me last game to try and win, though that failed because I won commuter and immediately used it the following night. He still won cuz double-vote, though.

That being said, are you suggesting that we burn these abilities as soon as possible, or that we outright do not use them, period?

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, and the current plan has you double-bidding if and only if there are 7 unknown abilities. So that's already sorted out.

Well, yeah, I kinda figured that out already.

[Voidedmafia]

I recieved $143 N3.

[Voidedmafia]

All actions have been confirmed I believe (along with n losing messenger). As for uses some have been claimed, but for the most part they've stayed secret unless it's necessary to claim how it's been used.

For instance, the lack of an NK N2.

Molla is transferring money because he should transfer money

This is a tautology because it's tautological

Is he still broke, or...?

[Voidedmafia]

I know what I'm doing, at the least. Would prefer to buy, but that's okay.

Might wanna quote the table just so it's on the same page as the lynch scene, to be safe.

Matt, 2067 makes absolutely no sense.

My cop suggestions would be Mehdi, Bois, Phill, or N. Or Pere.

[Voidedmafia]

So yeah, Tammy.

-------[]
[]-------

[Voidedmafia]

I won my auction. Hopefully town won the NK. Fairly sure Right hand is gone, too, so we're just left with a 2-man scumteam at most.

I can follow a Guille lynch, but remind me why N is town again? I forgot my read.

Vote: Guille

[Voidedmafia]

Thankee, PV and Mehdi. Townread on N refreshed.

[Voidedmafia]

Yeah that was stupid (not sure why I got elmo and sham mixed up).

Currently thinking of lynch guille, shoot PV, investigate philla. Cops can't sense 3rd parties which is why checking deas who has a decent chance still of being one isn't my preferred cop choice right now (although next night if needed sure).

So why Guille, me, Phil and Deas? Isn't Deas cleared for outting Pitty?

And Deas should have a innocent or guilty. Would like to hear that before too long.

Deas became town through his play, not necessarily through the outing of Pitty?

P-EDIT: We were supposed to advert that, last I checked?

[Voidedmafia]

...Scumclaim?

[Voidedmafia]

Nope, looks good enough to me.

Simply waiting on a draw-up of stuff to bid on, now, I guess.

[Voidedmafia]

*sigh*. Someone should really just force me to sit in a corner and not come up with anything *brillaint* until I read the rules and roles. Never mind.

Brilliant*

Don't worry, Tammeh, I like your ideas sometimes.

[Voidedmafia]

Thinking about using vote nullifier on PV. Other than potentially wanting Gravedigger, I have no comments/complaints.

[Voidedmafia]

i 4get, are you receiving a transfer tonight voided?

I believe so, yes.

[Voidedmafia]

As it stands, I still should have enough to at least contest it.

[Voidedmafia]

The previous page is a beautiful example of why I don't think SPB are town.

A.) Because he thinks you're Guille's partner
B.) Because of his confidence about scum rolling over.
C.) One of the other 2-3 topics Kany discussed
D.) Other?

[Voidedmafia]

So, do you feel like N's townier, Tammy?

[Voidedmafia]

Could be Phil trying to direct you off of killing him?

[Voidedmafia]

It's very possible voided.

Though, considering that we're lynching/vigging/copping one of phil/PV/*name I forgot*, I don't know why he'd try to do that since either way he's gonna die unless the cop nets an inno on him somehow.

[Voidedmafia]

Also I was disappointed that GB died N1 because we were dumb, I really enjoyed you guys being in the game.

Well, that was partially (mainly <_<) my fault, though.

[Voidedmafia]

Btw, what happened N2 with the failed kill?

[Voidedmafia]

I intentionally decided not to use it that night, and didn't use the final shot at all after that.

Coulda saved GG, though <_<

[Voidedmafia]

I vote VM over Stephan as well based on VM's playstyle and aggressiveness. It's good to have him informed so that he doesn't ruin plans with his obstinate nature (that's a complement VM, you're very good at tearing holes into things you're skeptical of / don't know everything about, as you should be, but given the nature of this game it's bad news bears)

Matt, where exactly did you get this about me from? I honestly wanna know.

[Voidedmafia]

Honestly don't know what you're talking about, but okay...

[Voidedmafia]

Huh, I caught the entire right-hand scumteam and didn't notice until I saw the scum complaining about it in the QT. I didn't think I was

that

accurate…

Woe betide any scumteam when the call for judgement sounds, for their demise is nigh.

How's that?

[Voidedmafia]

Just make sure GreyICE never gets it.

[Voidedmafia]

Remind me, though, what made you switch from daybidding to night bidding?

Also, that sounds more like scum psyched and WIFOM'd each other out. Probably wrong since I haven't read either team's QT, but still.