Micro 1091 - Prism v. 1L Year [Game Over]
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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what's up gamers!!
VOTE: Bell"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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you forgot the scum millers as wellIn post 36, Bell wrote:Also scum.
There’s 1 more scum or was there two scum. I’ll go ahead and guess Elle for 3 because they’re filling the air.
Anyway I’m all out of scums."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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do you think that's something scum!Meuh is likely to do?In post 52, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: she decided to claim miller impulsively for fun"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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In post 97, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: I don't think there's a point in guessing what scum!meuh will or won't do or whether Prism would run a micro with two millers in it. it's just trying to outguess an opponent or the mod.
hmm ok, I was more wondering whether 52 was based on a specific idea or expectation of how Meuh plays scum, I agree with the rest of your post that there's no downside to pressing her on flavor. though I generally doubt that mafia is gonna immediately claim a miller role without considering the flavor beforehand"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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this post feels off to me, it's giving me vibes of speculating about something that you know didn't happenIn post 107, elle (1L) wrote: in theory scum!pooky could have been informed there was a miller and cleverly asked prism for a miller fake claim during pregame to orchestrate as well
VOTE: elle"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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yes let's hash it out - my hangup is mainly that I don't understand what the point of the post was, like I see you said you like to explore theories, do you maybe have similar examples from completed towngames? and also I think the thing that felt most off is the way you said this would be "clever" of Pooky, it feels just a lil shady yet at the same time I have a sense that you don't actuallyIn post 168, elle (1L) wrote: like do you think i’ve been scummy? if everyone thinks i have we can sit here and work through on and off for however long is necessary but from my perspective it’s like, bell voting me because i process things slowly which is very well documented and unrelated to game and guiltylion voting me for ??? reasons regarding millers like does me saying ‘in theory’ really imply i’m speculating about something I have knowledge of? like am i a scums with one of the miller claims then? and pooky voting because others voted as far as i can tellbelievethat he's fakeclaiming
and what's your reasoning for why that would make you scum with one of the claims? my thinking was if both Pooky and Meuh are telling the truth then scum might be looking for ways to discredit them or sow doubt around the claims and that's the vibe your post gave me"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I also wasn't thinking about the phone thing at all and when I went to reread just now I don't think elle was clear that being on the phone would make her unable to play well. there's 29 but I took that as a joke, it didn't occur to me that she was saying she may not be able to fully respond to questions or pressureIn post 176, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: weird self defense claiming we're taking advantage of the fact you're on mobile instead of computer which is really ?? to me.
I did not consider the fact that you were on mobile at all and I doubt GuiltyLion did either
@elle if there's stuff that needs to wait until Wednesday I do not mind, I'm in no rush here"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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why is catboi town?In post 177, Dunnstral wrote: Napkin thoughts: Millers town, catboi town, Bell town"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I feel you that this reaction is a bit disproportionate and a lot of mafia would probably be playing it more cool here, but I also don't really know her that well and don't know what her scumrange is or what she's capable of. some people do like to smash the AtE button cause it's easier for them to sound genuine, especially if the suspicion isn't exactly 'fair' despite being correctIn post 198, Ydrasse wrote: the point is that i think she could like... dunno. i feel like mafia would be a little less all over the place about it and less overtly... intense? i don't know if that's the right word but maybe dealing with it head-on. it doesn't feel like the correct response as mafia to me.
idk did you have any thoughts on the aforementioned phone point?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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@Cakez - do you have a read on elle?
@Dunn - I get that you like the post but you really believe that's sufficient for a townread? 177 and 179 reads as though you're POEing via your townreads and that feels kinda rote and simplistic. I don't think mafia is incapable of producing catboi's ISO so far"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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sorry to hear about COVID Bell :/ rest and take care of yourself
I am getting townvibes from Ydrasse - I've played a handful of games with her as both alignments and I've noticed a pattern where she acts noticeably more vibey and carefree as scum, like she plays in a manner to convince everyone that she's decidedlynotexperiencing any of the pressure or anxiety that comes with Being Mafia. whereas here she's being pretty candid about feeling a possible thread vibe against her, Mesh's hedgey post making her "antsy", etc. It comes across being self-conscious about her standing in the town in a way that I think scum!Ydra would generally tend to hide.
I was kinda wary of her opening for this exact reason, like 138 feels like something she'd post as scum, but the more anxious energy of her page 11/12 posts feels genuine to me."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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also she's exactly right here, like Cakez do you seriously believe your interactions with Pooky are "obviously irrelevant" to your alignment? you don't think it matters at all that in one world you know his alignment and in one world you don't, like that won't manifest in how you treat him??In post 297, Ydrasse wrote:
also i don't really think this is like. entirely true because it's a Behavior factored into meta and the things that you do in game so i think that how you treat it could give insight to your alignment. i don't think it's the Strongest reason to call someone mafia but i think it's possible you felt like you had to go through the basic motions of giving him/it attention without actually caring about the more important engagement with it.In post 292, SirCakez wrote:
I'm always gonna have my little clash with Pooky but I think it's entirely and obviously irrelevant to my alignment this game and I think this is an incredibly weak argument to use to SR meIn post 264, Ydrasse wrote: the pooky thing is played out and obligatory but i find it interesting (scummy flavored) that he doesn’t seem to care about exploring the content that could maybe help him parse a slot he often plays with and interacts with etc"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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so you think elle is town (or at least null town), but you see Ydrasse coming to the same read as TMI - is that specific to the way she expressed the read or is the read itself inherently suspicious to you?In post 294, SirCakez wrote: I think the posts read like a scum overreaction but I can see where a town player reacts like this especially in this type of game where I'm sure people were excited to play in this one, it sucks getting sunk with a wagon within 24 hours of day one open
and which read came first (elle townread vs ydra scumread) and to what degree do they impact each other, if at all. like are you adding any weight to your elle townread because you think Ydra TMI'd the slot, or are these things largely unrelated in your mind"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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hah actually this is sorta what I just said but in a more concise tl;dr formIn post 310, Dunnstral wrote: I believe that Ydrasse is usually more charismatic as mafia early. Maybe. I feel like I make this argument a lot in games but I don't remember how that has went for me.
hmmm I wanna say that is +points for Dunn being town but I guess he could still make this argument as scum, especially if he's made it before"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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on this though, I guess like, maybe? scum are certainly incentivized away from making early game townreads but I feel once you hit a certain level of experience/skill in your scum game you realize early TRs are a lot more reversible than people tend to think. in the general case I agree with you but I wouldn't put that much stock in it for somebody who's been on the site for a decade, especially when he himself immediately said he's capable of posting that as scumIn post 309, Dunnstral wrote: If Catboi is mafia they opened up by calling a lot of people town, including two people who claimed the same role. I think mafia would be more hesitant to do so and would want paranoia to remain there."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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what are your thoughts about a Cakez vote?In post 316, Dunnstral wrote: Ydrasse points against SirCakez:
o Their vote put pressure on Ydrasse at a time when people were considering voting for Ydrasse
o Their interaction with Pooky is suspicious because they avoided talking about the miller claim to "get into the game", and they would do so as town
o They are being obtuse in their interaction with Ydrasse and missing the point on purpose, including misrepping what Ydrasse is saying
SirCakez points against Ydrasse:
o Their interactions with elle (1L) on page 8 are informed
o Their responses to SirCakez's questions are bad and Ydrasse would have better arguments as town"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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do you have any thoughts on what I said re: my impression of her scumgame being specifically crafted to appear carefree?In post 331, catboi wrote: It's not impossible if she felt threatened by cakez scumreading her and felt the need to push back on an accuser before she became a wagon - part of why I squinted at her accusing the game of shifting momentum toward her was that it felt like it could be an unconscious guilt thing - when you're scum you tend to perceive your actions as ore suspicious than they are and get worried that people are going to start pushing you and it felt like an exaggeration of reality.
Or she could just be a paranoid townie. I'm hardly committed to my current vote.
It's kinda odd you didn't comment on that at all, like what you are proposing as a scum explanation here is exactly the opposite of how Ydrasse plays as mafia in my experience"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I was asking Dunn specifically because I am getting a weird vibe around him where he seems to be suspecting you but isn't voting you (or voting at all, for that matter).In post 337, SirCakez wrote: what is this stuff? just vote me if you feel something it's always weird to me when people like look for approval for their votes before placing them.
I don't need his approval to vote you lol you misunderstand my post completely if you think that's what I was asking for"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I have a thought on 335 but I'm gonna wait for Ydrasse to potentially respond / address the post first"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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mm I was conftown that game and burning out and didn't try very hardIn post 356, Meuh wrote:
I do think this is a general quirk of the way he plays, but he feels especially stiff here I guess?In post 355, Meuh wrote: You know who DOES feel like they're just going through the motions? GuiltyLion.
Like compared to New Year Dance Party (viewtopic.php?sid=&f=56&t=90239&user_select%5B%5D=26515), his posting here feels cleaner in a way I don't feel good about; could partially be justified by the contrast in game tone and him not being 100% checked into that game, but I don't find that fully satisfactory. Also 322 feels generally off (and TMI on Dunn being town maybe?), like I read this post and he presents this questioning of Dunn's alignment but I don't actually feel like this is something he reflected on, I don't buy the thought process.
VOTE: GuiltyLion
I need to go check to confirm but I vaguely recall you mistakenly scumreading me for similar reasons in Eurybia's curse"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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yah Meuh I think you should reread my ISO and yours in Eurybia's again, I was just perusing through it and it feels like you were getting similar vibes there, and I'm curious if you agree or if there's still a difference in your mind"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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catboi why are you feeling kinda passive this game?
there's been a few moments where you've said you're waiting for more or uncertain of reads and I don't remember you being this hands off last time we played together"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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what prompted the decision to experiment in this game?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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hi Luke!"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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ok so Cakez this is getting at the same question/thought I have about your 335In post 418, SirCakez wrote: i understand this and the thread vibes you were talking about
im still hung up on how you think I could have felt the same vibes as you and taken advantage based on those.
do you think the vibes/atmosphere of the game that Ydrasse is talking about actually did exist in her point of view? or do you think she's fabricating the 'vibes' as a reason to push you?
I think as either alignment Ydrasse may have genuinely felt people were going to suspect her, and if she's town wouldn't it make sense to see the timing of your vote as suspicious? I don't think it's an inherentlyscummyargument, even if I could imagine her also making it as scum"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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@Luke - I don't really think any of you, Dunn, or catboi have been townie, so I am indeed trying to get a feel for Dunn's alignment and challenging Ydra on why she TRed your slot
it's kinda disingenuous to frame that as "weaken early town reads" as opposed to, y'know, scumhunting"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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UNVOTE:
I'm willing to trust the claim"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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on this - I don't think I really had a lot of substantial thoughts on Dunn's alignment, at least not worth sharing. I felt most of his reads seemed artificial and formulaic, outside of when he had the same take as I did on Ydra. That's what is kinda hanging me up as I don't see the scum motivation for that read if Ydra is town, and the fact that he had the same reasoning regarding her scum meta felt mindmeld-y. but the catboi read was concerningly easy and I was trying to suss out to what degree he actually believes in it. I also generally don't like that he seemed reluctant to put down a vote on CakezIn post 436, Lukewarm wrote: Your line of questioning with Dunn did not appear to lead to you voicing any thoughts on Dunn's alignment wrt his Catboi read, nor did you seem to argue that Catboi was scum. It was just "but scum catboi COULD do that too, so you should not town read him." And that being the where that conversation led, left me with that impression.
I also, just, in general do not trust that sort of argument as genuine, because it seems to set a precedent that in order to think someone is more likely to be town, you must believe that their actions could not be replicated. And that is a very silly bar to set for town reads.
I've been unsure of how to feel re:catboi as well but assuming you're telling the truth here I am thinking he's probably mafia"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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tbh you can never put it past Luke to find some reason to scumread meIn post 452, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: i thought about your reasoning for GL and i think its kind of weak sauce and its like you decided to vote him then figure out an excuse rather than the other way around."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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although Pooky this feels like a bit of a strong defense when it's not clear to me what your read on me is
your pocket request has been received and will be evaluated in 1-3 Business Days"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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are you saying here that my questioning dunn was tactically bad? what does that meanIn post 453, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: like gls thoughts on catboi exactly mirror my own. so they make sense to me. i just dont bother to question dflors townread cuz i think its tactically bad."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I completely agree with Luke's 496. catboi's 495 is an attempt to frame my early elle pressure as inherently "bad faith" if elle is town. I also don't believe catboi had any issues with the pressure on elle at the time
VOTE: catboi"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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this also feels like kind of a weird point in the context of why he's not taking a stance on either of usIn post 511, catboi wrote: Night actions/claims will potentially help clear you up
what happens if we get to D2/D3 and we're both alive and Luke claims roleblocked or that he didn't get a useful result? if we're TvT and mafia have counterplay to a tracker then the dynamic could be intentionally prolonged as long as they want
idk this kind of like "I don't know, we'll see what happens" attitude rubs me the wrong way when catboi's also not leading or not advocating for much. I'd be more inclined to buy the indecisiveness if it felt like catboi was actively trying to sort me"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I think Luke probably resolves himself most of the time (assuming he's town) but if you see us as a TvS situation then I don't understand why that doesn't lead to you suspecting and voting me. like FYPOV there should be no real downside to flipping me but instead it feels like you're trying to keep your options open or simply float an idea of TvS / scum!GL to wait and see what the reception is"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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are you primarily a real time interactions kind of person, I feel like I've been around and postingIn post 533, catboi wrote: As for me "not actively trying to sort you" - you weren't here, dude. What are you expecting me to do when you're not posting in the game? Why do you think I didn't just vote you? I mean, probably because I'm still trying to sort you?
I'm also not sure what to make of your 506, it's fair to state that you're not confident in your read but also the best way to catch scum is when they bullshit their votes and scumreads and so if I squint hard enough I could see this post as a dodge out of fabricating a scumread on a townie. why should I believe that your scumread there is genuine"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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... was it not her birthday yesterday?In post 592, SirCakez wrote: kinda wack that Ydra went AWOL as soon as wagon attention moved elsewhere
this is opportunistic shade
and it also feels like your vote on me is just a chainsaw for catboi"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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In post 179, Dunnstral wrote: elle (1L) + Ydrasse, or elle (1L) + SirCakez for the scumteam, as post 146 quoted above does not seem like both mafia, and elle (1L) does seem the most suspect to me right now based on how I've seen mafia in this position act before.In post 310, Dunnstral wrote: I believe that Ydrasse is usually more charismatic as mafia early. Maybe. I feel like I make this argument a lot in games but I don't remember how that has went for me.
@Dunn re:548- the combination of these two posts, not the one I quoted, is what made me think you should be voting Cakez if you were acting on your reads
I didn't post "hm, Dunn seems like he should be scumreading/voting Cakez, but he's not, I'm going to ask him about whether he'd vote Cakez to test him" ahead of time because that would obviously shape any reaction or post that I got from you"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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this doesn't feel true given your prior two postsIn post 585, catboi wrote: I find it frustrating to be on the receiving end of this repeatedly.
like if you're actually frustrated is the first response really just "Lol""I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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that is surprising yes"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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In post 599, catboi wrote: I think GL accusing Cakez of chainsawing me is moving into "hard to fathom as being the real belief of a town player" territory. It's enough in the territory that I would be okay with voting him today, because his arguments have gotten continually worse, and look more like he's trying to "score points" with every attack rather than attempting to discern a perspective or actually investigate alignments. (I think even if he's town the way he's playing right is outright anti-town, not because he's reading me wrong but because of him tunneling in a single-minded fashion where everything someone does only adds further fuel to the fire. I think if allowed to live he will harm the town regardless of his alignment. That's simply how I've come to view this type of play.
the timing and execution of that Cakez vote is incredibly suspicious, is it not? a bunch of people starting to openly suspect you, and then Cakez decides to sheep a Dunn case that didn't bother to examine or interrogate my point of view (594)? and then he says he actually also scumreads you as well - that is Weird Behavior! so weird in fact that I don't have a good town!explanation for it coming to mind!
I also take issue with you framing my style of play as not "actually investigating alignments", that's an uncharitable description. I tend to be a bit militant and aggressive in how I make pushes but that's because mafia don't actuallyfeel any pressureif you don't call them out or push things forcefully.
if you're town here and you genuinely think I'm "harming the town" then do your job and show me where I'm wrong and who's actually scum instead. hell, you can evenactually vote me, I still don't understand why you haven't. anyone can just float along and form shallow vague POE pools in a manner virtually indistinguishable from conservative scumplay, it's actually wild you're now attempting to claim some kind of high ground of being better at mafia for doing so. like was your goal with this post to piss me off or what?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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actually @catboi I'm willing to engage with you on Ydrasse because I think that's probably the best olive branch here
I see why you're 'not convinced' by what I said for her being town, I guess what I don't buy in your reason for scumreading her is that scum!Ydrasse needs to OMGUS Cakez reactively at all? all you've said is it 'could easily be scum motivated' but I really don't think Ydrasse is the type of player to actually wig out like that as mafia. I've seen her as scum a handful of times and not once can I remember her getting reactive to early pressure or someone sussing her until it was at a point where the game was literally on the line because she was last mafia standing.
so for you to see her react to early pressure and be like 'meh, seems scummy' just feels really lazy and surface level, what am I missing there? like is your position that scum!Ydrasse felt threatened by Cakez?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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hi Bell, I do not know why Ydra is voting you
I don't think I'm doing anything here I would 'only do as town', I don't think I have a polarized game like that, or at least I try not to. like if I knew the answer to your question then it wouldn't be valid cause I'd do those things as scum"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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@Bell - honestly I just mainly shelved you as town for the early push on elle and because you feel a little 'spewed town' in a sense given no one's really pushed you at all, but if something is wonky in this game I don't think you're at a level you didn't meet in that Shakespeare game
I think my only solid townreads at the moment are Meuh, Pookie, and Ydrasse"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I don't disagree with this but I don't really know what I would be doing as scum here because I would be informed and I would also have a buddy to play aroundIn post 696, Bell wrote: Because obviously you pivot around different people and choose where your focus is as one alignment over the other.
People don't play alignments the same as either alignment.
They never have.
you asked me what I've done that I would only do as town, I don't know what the answer to that is. like I guess if I were scum and catboi is town I probably would be less willing to fake a scumread on him and fight it out if it felt like unnecessary attention? but the fact that I'm generally fearless in my towngame means I also have to be fearless in my scumgame, and I think scum!me would think that town!me would not be impressed with him here"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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uhhh, okay"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I guess my other thought is that I don't really agree that these are 'choices' I've made
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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do you think catboi seems frustrated?In post 672, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
objection: speculation about the defendant's state of mind.In post 595, GuiltyLion wrote:
this doesn't feel true given your prior two postsIn post 585, catboi wrote: I find it frustrating to be on the receiving end of this repeatedly.
like if you're actually frustrated is the first response really just "Lol"
he's stated that he is, but that's not the feeling I actually get from his posts. they feel crafted and manipulative to me"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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If someone says I'm being "harmful to town" that's gonna offend me no matter whatIn post 703, Bell wrote: They're definitely choices by any measure of the word.
feelings aren't a choice, they're a reaction"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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like Bell do you actually sit down and consciously choose to post everything you post and say everything you say
that's commendable restraint if so but I tend to just vomit stuff impulsively in the thread"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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no, it's because I think that's a self-absorbed and dismissive thing to say"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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ok, I'm not those players? I've lost the plot on the point of this conversation unless you're claiming that something specifically in how I've reacted is scum indicative"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I didn't decide to get upset
either catboi is scum and he's trying to just discredit me and piss me off, in which case cool, mission accomplished I guess
or he's town and heactually thinksmy play is anti-town, which is offensive on a different level because when I compare what I've been trying to do and what he's done I don't think someone can earnestly say they believe their play is better at either a) appearing town or b) catching scum. so if he's town he's basically just saying I'm bad at the game because I dared to suspect him for not taking any definite stances on anything and that's tilting that he can unironically believe that given the extent of whatever he's offered so far"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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the thing is if he's town then itistrue that I'm playing badly in his mind, so it's insulting - and if he's scum he's intentionally wielding that to his advantage
I still don't follow your point here, are you saying I should just not care about trying to be good at the game and someone people enjoy playing with"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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is your point that I should just be more zen about being suggested as a policy vote"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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if it gets to a point where it's an unplayable conflict I'd be willing to back down or apologize and own my role in making things that way
I did not think this was anywhere close to that in this game, maybe that's my fault
I'm gonna take a break for a bit I don't think I am in a good mindset anymore, it feels like Bell is just shaming me I don't really understand what he's doing or trying to get at
might be back later tonight if/when I feel better regulated"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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you're saying I chose to get upset and asking me what the point of it was
like I guess yes, if I took a deep breath and didn't let myself get riled up by another player claiming I shouldn't live because I'm harming the town, maybe I could have avoided getting frustrated.
I didn't do that, so here we are. what do you actually expect me to say in response to 711?
I don't think I play the way that you do, I don't think of what scum!me would be doing at all. I think about what scum in other players positions would probably be doing, but my position is literally the only one that's resolved for me so I don't need to spend any time thinking about it other than trying to find the right means to correct other people when they're not seeing me accurately. but if someone I'm pushing is gonna turn around and advocate to policy me, my first thought isn't "what's my best choice in how to respond to this", I am not thinking at a higher order level like that"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I feel shitty about catboi replacing out and I was out of line taking it personally
I also don't really think catboi would have reacted like that as mafia
UNVOTE:"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I don't think I want to push anywhere tonight but I'm around for a bit"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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also @Bell you don't need to apologize you didn't do anything wrong, you're correct to have the "game is the game" mindset"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I'm gonna try to muster up energy for this game and reread and do more tonight
of the current two wagons I'd definitely prefer Cakez over Ydrasse but there's a few things I want to check re:Cakez. I remember in Eurybia's I eventually had him correctly as scum and I want to reread his ISO from that game and compare it to how it feels here, as well as look at the things I picked up on there
I also felt his treatment of me vs catboi was agenda'd but I was largely operating in a context of scum!catboi, if catboi slot is town I need to reassess whether he's been playing it like scum would a TvT but at the time I wasn't getting that vibe so I just want to reassess there
860 also makes sense to me
I kinda feel like Meuh has fallen off a lot this game and that's starting to worry me"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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alright here's where I am at
I took a look over again at Cakez ISO in the Eurybia game, the last time I remember playing with him as scum. I do feel he comes across a bit differently here than he did in that game. the main differences I see are:
1) In Eurybia's Curse, scum!Cakez was quick to give out a bunch of early game townreads and stick to them (see: here, an early townread on the worst that was reinforced here, here an early TR on skitter that he got into trouble with but kept doubling down like so, and also notably here he called Meuh vs GL a TvT and stuck to both those reads as well). the worst was a scumbuddy in that game wheres the other players were townies, so one read was to shield a buddy and the others were pocket attempts or efforts to blend in, but across all of them they were fixed somewhat early and he stuck to them somewhat implausibly, giving his play a very agenda'd feel to it. Whereas here I am seeing fewer expressed townreads to begin with - but even the ones he has given he's either waffled on (progressing from 'null town' on elle 294 to a vote/scumread 463) or been hedgey about (catboi 464, Bell "don't know but wouldn't vote today" 683)
2) His pushes in Eurbyia's curse were often grounded in something NAI that he then embellishes to make sound bad. Examples here and here. See his method of 'casing' gamma in this post. I think there's maybe some surface level similarity with his initial Ydra push in this game, but then I look at his later votes and justifications, like the commentary on Luke in 466 or even his sheeping Dunn onto me in 590 and it feels more Rational and Considered, as well as proactive in explaining why he's actually voting where he's voting. I reflexively didn't like 590 because I thought it was a questionably timed sheep of a poor case on me but when I try to remove my own feelings from the situation the means in which he's making his votes doesn't have the same exaggeration to it as it did in his scumgame.
So there's enough here to make me a bit uncertain, from a brief meta comparison. It's possible he's stepped up his game but Pooky also suggesting this doesn't feel like his scumgame is giving me pause.
All that said, I have a nagging concern with this most recent post: