Micro 488: Forest Fire - Endgame
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sangres Mafia Scum
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sangres Mafia Scum
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sangres Mafia Scum
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sangres Mafia Scum
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sangres Mafia Scum
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sangres Mafia Scum
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In post 19, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:That was me (Empire).
I'm itching to get to the main course already, this is a very long appetizer.
It wasn't a very long appetizer when you made your first post.-
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sangres Mafia Scum
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In post 38, Gold Saucer wrote:Hey hey.
Any thoughts on anything alignment indicative happening yet?
I am monitoring a few things but I don't feel particularly inclined to budge in on any of them yet.
-b
I was jumping at every little thing last night, so I'm kinda glad it was still pregame. I'm in observe-and-poke mode for now.
I love this player list so much.-
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sangres Mafia Scum
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In post 42, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:(I've been drinking a bit so prepare for increasingly incoherent posts.)
I strongly suspect I've caught up with you.
Where is everybody?-
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sangres Mafia Scum
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In post 47, Gold Saucer wrote:In post 45, sangres wrote:In post 42, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:(I've been drinking a bit so prepare for increasingly incoherent posts.)
I strongly suspect I've caught up with you.
Where is everybody?
I'm here. Few drinks behind you though
-b
Slow start to this game.-
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sangres Mafia Scum
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sangres Mafia Scum
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In post 63, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:Sangres other than wanting to speak with Empire was there a particular reason you wanted to know who made Post 4 of ours?
My question about who made the post had nothing at all to do with wanting to speak with Empire.-
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sangres Mafia Scum
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In post 79, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:What did the fact that Empire made that post tell you and how would it have changed if I were the one that made the post?
I thought the sentiment sounded a little forced coming from Empire, but could be that he was just that keyed up about the game. Which was *sort of* confirmed by his answer to my questions. It didn't have some of the tone I remember from his rvs play in the space game, though.
I don't know you well enough to make that kind of judgement.-
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In post 80, Gold Saucer wrote:What do you think about the Yuriko thing in general re: 46/55 and reactions surrounding?
p-edit: Well, start with that question. I'll be around sporadically tomm.
-b
I started meta-ing her yesterday. I'm not done with that yet, but so far my impression is that she's a fairly assertive and thoughtful player as either alignment, once I got past her most recent completed games (which happened last year during the timeframe when the site went down and data was lost. It looked like the timing of that knocked her for a loop and she wound up being replaced in her games).
Anyway, her start here looked way more hesitant than the games from last year that I've looked at so far. Unlike Empire, I thought her early posts about players being weird looked a little scummy. Being confused about the setup, given she's mostly played newbie games so far, is a little less concerning to me. I don't have a warm fuzzy, though.-
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In post 85, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:In post 82, sangres wrote:I thought the sentiment sounded a little forced coming from Empire, but could be that he was just that keyed up about the game. Which was *sort of* confirmed by his answer to my questions. It didn't have some of the tone I remember from his rvs play in the space game, though.
FWIW, I think that my play once Day 1 actually started is a lot closer to Mafia in Space than you're thinking (minus the lighthearted banter, probably due to the side effects of drawing a town PM in this particular game vs. that one). Also, Regfan thinks that we're obvtown already so you should just sheep him, he's good at mafia you know?
why are the side effects different?-
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sangres Mafia Scum
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In post 90, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:Well, ffery, for one thing the quality of this roster is way higher. Also, you (part of the Trinity of Empire readers) and Tammy (pretty accurate at reading me) are here and I don't expect you two to have any problems reading me as town if you're both town like I think you are so that gives me the license to roam free and uninhibited.
Quilford, any thoughts on non-my slot players?
I said something earlier about jumping at every little thing during the pregame phase, so there's that. You seem to be roaming more freely now, but I had the opposite impression from your first 2-3 posts.
I'm putting a lot of pressure on myself to get this read right and not dally about it.
p-edit, I kinda agree about pieguy.-
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sangres Mafia Scum
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the second point is a little more meaningful to me, though the only way anyone gets data for forming reads is from the content provided (or not provided) by other players.
I would have liked to see signs of life from you in the game thread.
speaking of signs of life it would be nice for Soft-spoken to make an appearance.
I won't be around much for the next 5-6 hours so I'm not going to try to really dig into these walls until then.-
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sangres Mafia Scum
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the differences of opinion about me are interesting. I am in the "ffery hasn't obvtowned" camp. I think the only way that me-townreads form -- that I can comprehend and don't look to me like elder gods were called upon -- do so organically as I react to events and form reads. Yesterday I sat in the game thread and poked at stuff, but the amount of activity was pretty woeful.
My reaction to the overnight walls are colored by a slight townfeel from my interactions with empire. I'm not sure what I think about pieguyn yet.-
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In post 181, Gold Saucer wrote:In post 176, sangres wrote:bork, have you and pieguy played any games together since tales of you?
Not that i can recall, and none that we interacted in any profound way. I think she was in fakegod's touhou upick 2 that i was in concurrently but died early.
Viscon xroads was a little earlier but she was scum
-b
I have some thoughts about my post tales of you confidence in reading you vs a game or two later, but it wasn't as long a gap between games.
I replaced into touhou 2 after you had replaced out and nacho replaced in. nacho tried to school me on the reasons why you had been obvtown in that game in ways you never were in tales of you.
In mafia on the air I was very confident you were town, but I replaced in with almost a full game day's worth of interaction between you and tammy to judge by.-
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In post 189, Gold Saucer wrote:In post 186, sangres wrote:I have some thoughts about my post tales of you confidence in reading you vs a game or two later, but it wasn't as long a gap between games.
Frankly, I'm sure I'm notthathard to read, even after that game, for you.
Dunno if that applies to pie.
-b
It was mostly a paranoia thing.
I got over it.
Mostly!-
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In post 192, Gold Saucer wrote:Also, I feel at ease with you this game in a way I never did in Nati's game up until when you claimed mason
-b
I remember! I was going through a tough time irl during that game, and also having all sorts of laptop probs that made it hard to stay in-the-moment. And I had a super-solid townread on my mason buddy that I couldn't explain and probably would have been a less-strong read if I didn't have mod confirmation, especially given the night-shenanigans.
Anyway.
I had a bunch of niggles from confirmation stage and early real-day and I need to go back and figure out if they've all been exercised. And I want to get nacho in here to look at some stuff.
also those gawdawful walls. I need to reread them.-
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Stuff during pregame that caught my eye.
- Empire's first post, which has been clarified enough that I'm not feeling squinty eyed about it atm.
- the y'all are weirds. Yuriko in 46 kind of echoed Soft-spoken's first (and only) post. The trailing-off elipses in her first sentence do indicate that her reaction to the start of RVS is a separate thing from her concerns/confusion about the setup. But, the elipses themselves bother me, maybe because Cabd mentioned it was a player's scum-habit to say something ambivalent and a bit FoSy using elipses but not actually spell it out. I haven't gotten back to my meta dive yet but that's something I want to check for in her other games.
- Soft-spoken's entrance and so far lack of return. I have a little bit of semi-experiential meta I'm watching for. I followed his first ms game and noticed something that could be an alignment cue. More later if it turns out to be relevant.
- bork's pregame interactions with Yuriko and Quillford - What I liked here was that he was reacting to stuff that caught my eye, but there was a different spin on it. Invariably when he's been town, I've seen that his approach to the game differs from mine in some very specific and repeated ways. It's easy for me to spot because we do react to the same stuff and my reaction, whether I express it in-thread or not, is there as a yardstick for comparison. I used to also focus on his reactions to being scumread/townread, and how he expressed paranoia if he did. But, I think those are behaviors he was able to transplant into his scumgame in tales of you, so I don't weigh them much now.
- bbmolla's one post. he usually reaches out to Tammy if she's in the game. Didn't happen.
- pieguy's reaction to RBD. It felt awkward.
- Quil felt very flippant, like maybe too flippant, but I have very little experience playing with him and previous experience was with a hydra. I'm going to throw my hands up and let nacho decide. I'm leaning town based on his posts after day 1 officially started but it's not a strong read.
I'm going to do a separate post for stuff I'm curious about since the game day officially started.-
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Pie is this argument about what Nacho and I would do purely hypothetical?
Nacho, as far as I know, hasn't read anything in this game since his post on page 1.
The argument between you and GB has reminded me somewhat of your reaction to zmuffin in the Xenosaga game. I didn't scumread you entirely because of your interactions with zmuffin, but it was a factor. This feels similar to me because i feel like you're overreacting to them and that's become a reinforcing spiral of action/reaction.
this is pushing my read of you in the town direction, mostly because I think if you were scum/he town you might make more of an effort to get him to change his mind about you, or give him opportunity/reason to soften his stance if you were scum together.-
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I think your 2nd paragraph of #230 basically applies to all the players you're calling a meta-circle, if any of them are scum. I think that's part of the reason why it feels dicey just accepting the townreads are all correct.
also, imo you're also in the meta circle. If you're town, once you and GB sort each other out, where would you look next?-
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In post 241, pieguyn wrote:as in, most would be excited if they thought they had spotted the other as scum?
I was looking at the wrong post - 231 - and responding to your comments about scum-GB feeling like you're the non-lurking player they could reasonably go after at this point in the game.
looking at 230, I'm kinda meh about your argument. Regfan is an excellent player but I feel like he has some blind spots. Everybody does. The last game he and I played (of about 3 games total iirc) he misread town-me and scum-nacho. I was having an absolutely terrible game, and I don't hold it against him, but his basic rules of thumb don't work on some players, and some aspects of my town play that are blindingly town to some people (Empire, for instance) aren't obvious town to him.
Also, the main reason I was initially scumreading Empire in the Signs and Void game turned out to be RegFan's Tammy read, which was a misread I had a lot of trouble seeing town-Empire make.
Soooo, I felt like his initial reasons for having a light scumread on you were ok and his push, to the extent it was a push (e.g., not much of one at that point) made sense.-
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In post 62, Gold Saucer wrote:In post 53, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:also sangres probably town question mark
I'm comfortable with ffery's interaction with me up until now, for what that's worth
-b
I'm not, it looked pretty scummy to me.-
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In post 63, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:I don't agree with Empire at all about Quilfords Post 51 where he considers us being scum, I'm reading that as more of a town-tell than a scum-tell here
That wasn't an attack that was fleshed out enough to be a towntell, unless you truly believe your hydra is so terrifying where Quilford wouldn't even joke about you guys being scum after the town tokens fiasco.-
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In post 244, sangres wrote:Hi Ffery! Where's my PM at?
It's in the zanaflex-fueled black hole I'm using for a brain this weekend. :/
Aside from that one thing I mentioned by text msg, most of my coherent thoughts about the game so far are in post 198 through this one.-
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In post 196, Gold Saucer wrote:I don't really think ffery's done anything alignment indicative yet and am a little surprised at the strongish town reads there. I really really do not get pie's read there at all based on asking empire a question, which is a standard question she would ask alignment regardless.
I would say that the biggest mistake people make with Ffery is that they call her town for questions that would be town if they were pushes. I don't think Pieguy is making that mistake. I think everyone else probably is.-
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In post 219, Gold Saucer wrote:bucket.
If a mislynched a you and Bork hydra I think I'd probably quit the site.
I don't think there's anything else I could do in this world to reach that high.-
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I don't think initial pushes on Yuriko are very good unless she has a habit of completely making up shit for no reason as scum. There is very rarely a reason to lie about setup spec/lie about opinions on setup spec since its free truthposting for scum, and I think if her scum strategy is to avoid doing shit by speculating on the setup, then it will become much more obvious down the road.
I think speculation on "why would scum prime themselves?" on the bottom of #102 looks vaguely townish, it doesn't seem likely that she would talk about that sort of thing in the thread as scum.-
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In post 255, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:Nacho, I'd really recommend y'know reading this game properly (Post 251 proves you haven't really), if you had you'd realise the only person with a town-read on Ffyer for her asking questions alone is Pie. Also if you still feel the same way then run me through the town read on Pie in depth plz.
Not nacho, but (ironically) this post seems to be made while unaware of Pie's posts 230 and the latter part of 233.-
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In post 123, pieguyn wrote:the ffery town read is entirely about her confidence. this probably sounds really dumb but that's how I always read her and it's always been right, so it works for me. I don't think she'd immediately jump in and push Empire first thing in the game if she was scum here for this reason (it would be a more bold move than what I'm used to from her).
The fact that pie specifically focused in on Ffery's confidence is what told me she was approaching the read properly. I think the rest of her posts were trying to explain the confidence she saw in Ffery's early posts.-
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I have read the game in its entirety, Regfan. I'm not particularly inclined to explain the pietown read at this point in time since RBD's read on Pie is a huge part of how I'm reading the slot and I think you are in a tunnel mode wrt pie and I don't think my explanations will be enough to derail you from that tunnel.-
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In post 119, Rancid Broderick Drake wrote:#112 feels like a giant overreaction
The big thing I don't like about RBD's push on pieguyn is this. Do you think that overreacting is a scumtell for Pieguyn in particular? More importantly, what about pieguyn's reaction felt fake?
The push bothered me in particular because I feel like it's an important one for Muffin to make; attacking pieguyn validates GB's push and frustrates pie more, which is perfect for giving him a bit more breathing room in a playerlist where a lot of players can obvtown very quickly.-
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In post 157, Gold Saucer wrote:There are a couple people here who've been pretty decent at reading you, but In your fit over the reasoning I'm not getting a feeling of fuck you regfan there are people who can read me, I get obvtown when I'm town so you'll see, kinda vibe which I would expect if you're this mad. Instead you seem mad at the reasoning, which is concerning considering its a page four scum read and by definition is going to be weak.
I disagree with the expected reaction.-
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Pieguyn is my strongest town read. If she were scum this game, she would have had to have changed a huge part of her scum meta broken that I haven't seen broken yet (in that she's less likely to make pushes like this as scum in the first place but when she does she often doesn't weave her emotions in as genuinely as she has here).
Gold Saucer is my second strongest town read; I agree that borks opening posts were pretty town but the towniest things to come out of that slot in my opinion were probably Bork not liking Quilford post where lack of clarity was OK in this medium and Tammys reach out to pie.
I think Gentleman Bastards is probably town; Regfan engaging tunnel mode after pieguyn overreacted to the initial push on her makes sense, and level engagement here is far more impressive than level of engagement in White Flag plus it would be oh so cruel for the RNG gods to give them scum here.
I liked BBMolla's play this game. I like that he was the first (or second, don't remember off the top of my head if Quilford mentioned it first) that Pie vs GB was TvT and I thought his sentiment of not really giving a shit about that fight in general was decently town to me. I also think that his "I think Yuriko is a firefighter" posts are indicative of his town mindset although not particularly unfakeable.
Quilford I think has good tone and decent contributions so far. I have slight concerns that he's been falling under the radar a bit, but these concerns aren't particularly strong considering GB/Pie.
Yuriko I've talked about, mostly null, slightly slightly leaning town.
Soft-Spoken null by play, scum by reads elsewhere.
RBD scum.-
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In post 266, pieguyn wrote:I swear to fuck Nacho, if you're buddying me right now I'm personally driving all the way to Chicago and punching you in the face. fortunately, I think you're just town.
I almost wish I was scum right now just so I could thoroughly enjoy watching as Regfan expends all his effort trying to lynch me and fails. ~
What do you think of my thoughts on RBD/why I think he reacted to you the way he did?-
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In post 267, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:I'm happy to listen to logic, I'm not convinced he's scum (There are some parts of his reaction that I do read as townish) but there's a lot of issues I have with his reads, stances and attacks on us that he needs to clear up for me.
I'm happy addressing specific points if you want me to. I'm not particularly inclined to type up a wall on why Pieguyn is town because phone and I doubt it will be necessary.-
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In post 270, pieguyn wrote:yeah, but seriously
lying about what a push is?
lying about what a push is?!?!?!
The advantage of scum-Regfan doing this is...?-
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In post 275, pieguyn wrote:you weren't considering the context
This is a very easy mistake to make. I don't think Regfan felt overly strong about the point in the first place (it's one of those things you bring up to validate a read, start looking more closely at a player), and I don't think that town-him necessarily realizes or thinks deeply about the "posting in games is much more effort than browsing the site/GD" point" you would bring up later.