House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Datisi]

re 4384:

yes, i've noticed you've been checked out. but if you never saw anything townie in me and suspected mastina from day 1, i still find it odd that you didn't comment anything about it. and i know you technically don't "have" to read me, but if you've really been looking for dwlee partners, then i find it dubious that you've apparently seen nothing townie about me.

still don't see what you think is bad about mastina or why you'd expect her to have been playing like she's gonna get shot

[Datisi]

We execute the wolf Dann today please.

why is dann a wolf to you?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That rounds my five actually.

Owen Shea Junko Luke Rhae.

As town if that wasn't clear.

Well, so I was going back through my reads and my day 1 town reads are looking decent here?

Rhae's slot, Junko's slot and Luke's slot have all flipped town.

My real question is, did I really go 5 for 5 on my town reads?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

re 4384:

yes, i've noticed you've been checked out. but if you never saw anything townie in me and suspected mastina from day 1, i still find it odd that you didn't comment anything about it. and i know you technically don't "have" to read me, but if you've really been looking for dwlee partners, then i find it dubious that you've apparently seen nothing townie about me.

still don't see what you think is bad about mastina or why you'd expect her to have been playing like she's gonna get shot

she's been confirmed town for days, why is she still alive?

Also, I just showed you my townread on Day 1. If you weren't on that list, you weren't townie to me.

Once we did the king stuff, I sort of checked out and then Shea killed Maria who I thought was town so eh.

You're asking me why I didn't push it day 1, but you know why. Prior to king election there's 0 point to pushing scum reads and post king election I was checked out.

[Enchant]

Because mafia want to kill trackers for some reason.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Because mafia want to kill trackers for some reason.

I wonder if the reason might be that they aren't afraid of the cop?

[Enchant]

Well they can't attack cop directly.

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Dannflor
E-1

[Enchant]

Not in mood sorry

[Firebringer]

you passed the test. I now proclaim u Enchant the Cautious.

[Enchant]

completly not magical i dislike

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Eiralox replaces Dannflor

[ProfessorDrapion]

Eiralox replaces Dannflor

Pick 4 names in any context, go!

[Firebringer]

UNVOTE:
Give eirlaox chance to our Allie’s perhaps.
Let’s see what he produces

[mastina]

and she is giving off vibes that don't say "i'll be killed soon, so here are my thoughts". It's as if she knows she's going to be alive, which is really REALLY weird.

I'm struggling to figure out if this is LLD with a goldfish memory or LLD being disingenuous as fuck, because those are the only two options.

I never showed "I'll be killed soon, here are my thoughts" in THIS topic.

I very much have shown those thoughts

DURING THE NIGHT

.

Literally all of N1 in fact.

And N1 was the one and only time where I thought I realistically could've died.

After Dwlee flipped scum, why the fuck would I die, LLD? I defended them. Generally speaking, slots who hard-defend scum tend to not be the scum's nightkill.

I didn't become conftown until D3. Which meant the first time I

could

have died after becoming conftown was N3--last night. The night where I literally was too exhausted overwhelmed busy and such to actually do much of anything but still tried?

I literally gave real reads and real reasons with real accuracies, discarding the normal mastina fake confidence. You're acting like my Monday posting never happened in there--but it did.

Literally on both nights that I actually could have died. On both N1 AND N3. I did exactly what you are fucking saying I didn't do. I literally DID go "I'll be killed soon so here are my thoughts" on both N1 and N3. I can't quote them here but they very much are there for any member of the non-Shea voters to access.

Which you are among.

[Firebringer]

LLD probably didn't read ur posts in there.
SHe has yet to post in the dissenter pt.

[mastina]

@Mastina
Explain to me why your so confident in the FireRed slot being town again?

Do y'all have goldfish memory?

'Cause I seem to recall everyone universally saying on D1 that Andante was basically conftown. Because she has the same exact night/day difference in her posting that Rhaenyra has. (Oh I guess that answers my question. Of course you fucking have goldfish memory because you fucking eliminated a slot who was 99.99% town because of that exact same reason! Maybe actually fucking listen to me this time when I say a slot which is 99.99% town is 99.99% town???)

Spoiler: here's a small reminder

I’ll keep going though with explaining my reads - I think Andante is the easiest player to perceive as Town, though I wouldn’t sleep on them potentially faking this natural nervousness they have. I just can’t bring myself to think the slot is Scum.

Also, I’ve switched up my read on Andante - others can confirm, but their complaints about the DW wagon are an almost exact mind meld with what I posted on the PT, to the point where it made me take a step back. So I would like for you to take more time reading Andante because I have been oscillating there but I don’t think they’re Scum anymore.

Andante is kind of the only person I am very confident is town atm.

also the tinfoily part of my brain is telling me that if you were scum, *someone* in your scumteam would know andante and warn you that she's basically an omgus machine and also that she is just like that as town and so it's not worth the struggle in early game... but tinfoiling

actually I guess Datisi said this exact thing earlier
hmmmmm were you referencing this at all @Luke?

no, but I am pretty sure that is a fairly common conception of Andante?

Andante seems town from the three posts I've read on this page.

(snip)

This is a good andante post. I agree with most of what she's saying about the tone and vibes of these posts.

My town reads so far:
GuiltyLion
Junko
Andante

Big pocket andante energy coming from mastina posting.

I think you're likely town. I still don't want you to be king. I have some paranoia about how positively you interacted/commented specifically rhea and andante but I'll sort out those feelings later.

andante twon yes?

Maybe. I'm not minding the votes at the very least. I considered voting andante king, but andante is also LOL loose cannon sometimes as town, so idk.

I agree with andante. Idg the dann townread.

Andante is pretty obv town

I'd probably townbin andante and andres at this point.

I could vote Andante I think she's town

I think andante is town.

Or where the idea that she couldn't replicate this as scum comes from?

I don't think it's that she CAN'T replicate it as scum, I just go on vibes with andante. I try to look at if I think she's generally moving in the right direction, though she's bound to have bad takes and reads. It's just a question of her holistic viewpoint, which i still feel OK enough with right now.
I think I townread andres more tbh because I don't like andante's whining about low activity to some degree (even if I agree I'd like to see those bottom 9 post more), but overall I still think she is net advocating positions I agree with.

I don't have an idea of what scum-Andante looks like, but she seems to have the same energy as the previous game I played with her where she was town.

I looked back and saw that the Andante read was also suspicious, because A) having skimmed through Andante's ISO in HDP I thought that there was definitely a difference in style compared to this game and Baileyposting - I think that I thought she seemed less confrontational and more appeasing there and B) GuiltyLion had at some point moved Andante to probtown, actually described as potential deepwolf on his read list - which was a very big jump from the starting place of "I don't get why people are townreading Andante" with only "it must be scum TMIing" as apparent explanation.

So towards the end of day 1 I was playing with the theory that VPB/GL were potentially both scum and bussing dwlee. But at some point between then and day 2 I decided that the number of GuiltyLion posts where he looked to be genuinely trying to figure out the game and taking a sincere approach outweighed how much I cared about the weakly justified Andante shift. There should be more than that to point to if he's scum. I think Shea's push against him was the trigger for me to actually consider whether I seriously thought this was what he would look like as scum. I'm also biased to someone who seems to be reading the game in a similar way to me, even if that's not a surefire town tell. For example his case against Charloux which was partly a restatement of what I said but as he had raised the Charloux suspicion in a PT beforehand I fully believe that he just had the same thoughts as me.

Andante is being andante nothing to worry about here. Town

Andante Professor villa

andante twon yes?

andante twon yes?

why did you say this and was it for a reason other than wallpost = town

from what i remember, my one encounter with scum-andante was that she was kinda shitposty and didn't care about the game much
and i think town-andante tends to be tryhard srsbsns early, like in invictus

well andante is town and if i say she's not town at some point in this game, please point me to this post, thanks in advance

andante town, dannflor firebringer and vp baltar feel town

datisi can you talk about your read on me
I'm kinda uncomfy with you town binning me

well, it is mostly projection, but
204 and 208 are your thoughts on andante, and i think they make sense from a townie pov. because i know how it feels to meet andante for the first time and be ??? at what she's doing and how she's playing. i also think as scum it's easy to see that stuff, and think you have found an easy target to push. but your posts just... don't feel like you're trying to project to us why andante is scum, or show how much effort you're putting into sorting her, it feels real and as if you're actually talking to her and trying to sort her.

also the tinfoily part of my brain is telling me that if you were scum, *someone* in your scumteam would know andante and warn you that she's basically an omgus machine and also that she is just like that as town and so it's not worth the struggle in early game... but tinfoiling

I think town would be more likely to be critical of questionable methods even if they agree with the conclusions? whereas scum would just be happy someone was agreeing with their reads? I don't understand why that isn't more likely to be town trying to get high quality reads / sorting than mafia... weakening a position in the game they support?

The end result of that statement is to make people doubt Andante town reads, and it never acknowledges that. It doesn't have the "I think Andante is town anyways, but..." aspect in there, which I would expect from an uninformed view point that is entering into that conversation with a town read on Andante.
It does not engage with Andante's alignment, or even engage with your alignment for making such a post.
It is just... there.

yeah this is utter bullshit
the idea that i have to repeat my townread of andante for the nth time in order to call out bad reasoning is nonsense
because literally less than 10 minutes earlier, i wrote 761 outlining difference between town and scum andante and why i think she's town this game; i had literally just got out of saying "i think andante is town" - and i'm trying to make people doubt town-andante by that one line? k

2. probably town: firebringer, titus, mathblade, enchant, shea, andante

andante

- uhh i'm still kind of sticking to my read of her being too out there to be scum. like, going from claiming that there's no way that dwlee is scum, to then jumping ship from pushing them at the lateish moment? making a new readslist and claiming they're town actually??? like, i generally think that scum has more self-awareness than to do that. and like, i don't actually hate her votes on roden/unowen and her reads in the council pt, so.

prob town? wouldn't lim today, maybe a deep wolf in here that I don't think I'd catch with no info and no flips

: {Andante, Datisi, Dann, LLD}

since you have andante in your "I wouldn't lim today but they can be wolves" what do you think about andante read progression? do you think it's natural for her to drop her scumread on me without adressing it, and follow up to that it's another question on me that lead to nothing?

her argument is that those reads were far away from eachother but I don't think you can just forget something that happened recently in irl time

this isn't out of character for Andante from what I've seen, I agree it's weird but check her ISO in KTANE - she did a lot of sudden read 180s that I had a hard time understanding and she was town there.

and TSQ pointed it out earlier but Mastina does feel very pockety towards Andante
if she's town she's kind of an ideal town!King for scum, easy to buddy and convince to change her mind, easy to blame if shit goes off the rails

now I get the feeling that Andante is town cuz I can see where they are coming from, and UNO could be mafia spotting LHF?

here is my small town:
Andante
TSQ
Firebringer
Lady Lambdadelta
Dannfloor

Andante went from no trust to probably town.

Sorry, yesterday was busy, but I have read and have some town reads (andante, datisi, firebringer) and one scum read (unown). Enchant could be town?

Andante is town, dweelee is town

I'm signing my name to the 'people are scum reading andante for reasons that are...andante' book. It's not particularly deep or complicated, but I'm not the only one with that take.

Andante is town.

6. Andante (Master of Laws) - 59 already has me sold on Andante being Town. I agree with a lot of the case as well. 131 is extremely ambitious, I think the hunger is Town.
So, to clarify:

Town

UNOwen
Andante
Andres
Lukewarm
Mastina
LLD
Firebringer
PP
Titus
VP Baltar
PD
Enchant
Dannflor

Null

Datisi
MariaR
TSQ

Scum

JunkoChan
Dwlee
GL
Unwnd

From what I can tell Dweelee is an apathy wagon

what's an apathy wagon? I'm pretty certain on dwlee maf here, like, one look at that ISO... that is not town!dwlee

Yeah +scum for Johnny there, mischaracterisation of the wagon. +Town for Andante

I think fireisredsir is Town because I townread Andante.

There is a performative / "showing off" tone to both of these posts that comes from scum a lot more often than not.

feel like you are putting on a show. There's a lot of like... feigned confidence here that I don't usually see townie's put into their page 3 reads. It reads like scum projecting confidence in order to see more town. 50 feels like you are giving a presentation where the thesis is that "look I am having an in depth thought process on JunkoChan" not a townie who actually suspects JunkoChan. And there's like no attempt to reach out to or sort Junko. Just very definitive declarative statements with confidence that I don't think you'd actually feel here as town.

64 is just LAMIST. Like literally, "oh look at me I'm so town I read everything because I'm uninformed." It has this anxious look at me I'm so town energy that I feel like almost all your posts contain in some way.

These posts are pretty much exactly how I'd expect scum to be playing

this game early knowing that the most important thing for them is to get town read and get into a position of literal power

Funny you say that, Dann, about how you expect scum would be playing.

'Cause literally everything you're accusing Andante of here, you're the one actually guilty of doing.

No, seriously, this is legit MY case on you, but substituting Andante in: your posts were performative and showing off. You were putting on a show with feigned confidence that

never

comes from infamously-cautious town-Dannflor. You're projecting confidence to seem more town. You're making a presentation where the thesis is "look I have in-depth thoughts on Andante", not a town player actually suspecting her. And there's no attempt to sort her. Just a scumread declared definitively with confidence. Your posts reek of LAMIST.

I kind of almost wonder if the sheer number of people calling adante obvious town does in fact mean she is just town and there are TMIers in the mix

Oh, certainly!

But I also think that the push against Andante comes from scum, too.

"but mastina, scumbuddies can talk to each other".

That doesn't mean they're gonna be uniform and share details about a specific player. You can argue that's optimal play, that don't mean they'll actually do it. Which is to say, no, I don't think the ideas of "there are scum who TMI defended Andante" is contradictory with the ideas of you and GL being scum who didn't know better than to push Andante. Scum don't have that perfect a communication link. And even if they

did

, there are tangible reasons to fake not having it.

So like, I agree with you that there's scum in the TMI defenders of Andante--but still think that you and GL pushing there is scum.

Can you (and any other Andante town readers who want to jump in) give me a summary of why this is specifically a town!Andante game? Or where the idea that she couldn't replicate this as scum comes from?

Yup, GuiltyLion is scum. (This whole post is scum tbh.)

Andante is town because she has a night and day difference between her townplay and her scumplay and this was her townplay.

Andante is town because her reads were really fucking good and her reasons were as well.

Andante is town because she was pushed by scum in ways incredibly unlikely to be that of scum bussing.

And then there's fireisredsir.
fireisredsir is town because I've seen fireisredsir as scum and this ain't it. (I might be misremembering but I think I've seen fireisredsir as town? And matching there? But I could be misremembering, games tend to blur.)

fireisredsir is town because his reads and his takes have been town.

More than all of that, both are town because the council was all town.

Both holders of the slot were in their town metas.
Both holders of the slot have had good reads and good reasons.
Both holders of the slot have been pushed by scum.

So like.

fireisredsir is literally town by every metric possible.

[mastina]

Also I’m sorry but Dann’s read on Johnny reeked of wolf.

Oh I agree.

Now take a look at Dannflor's interactions with Andante and I fucking dare you to call Dann partnered with her. He ain't. Dann is scum, and by virtue of Dann being scum, Andante (and by extent, fireisredsir) is town.

[mastina]

if anyone is going to pretend titus after cop claim isn't more townie. I have questions for them.

*raises hand*

Legit the only reason I don't think Titus is scum is the cop check because she radiates scum in every way shape and form otherwise?

I'd be voting her if not for the cop check there proving my read wrong.

I don’t buy it, I’m gonna need stronger reasoning by Mastina. People can change their meta.
Look at LOST. Titus/Nancy Drew were wrong on their Gamma Emerald read and 99% Town Read them as well.

I'm gonna refrain from going into territory which will get me banned but suffice to say Drapion: your 4398 is something that if I respond to I will get myself fucking banned for because I am that furious at you for it.

Don't.
Just don't.

Your point there is very fucking bad.

[mastina]

she's been confirmed town for days, why is she still alive?

Not days--*a* day.

And I was pushing both VP Baltar and GuiltyLion as scum. VP Baltar only flipped town today--why was I the best nightkill last night? I was a

possible

nightkill, but I'm not delusional enough to think I was the BEST nightkill when VP Baltar is town. Literally the only reason to kill me would be for the role, but the doctor would just get reassigned and so too would the prince. Under full control of Shea.

In contrast, the scum if they have any member on the Kingsguard would have some influence in potentially being able to make their way onto the council, just by virtue of killing Andres.

Scum that, oh, y'know...has a high chance of including Dannflor?

[Firebringer]

so when Titus says we need to kill Dats to prove he isn't scum fake claiming innos.
That was her scum plan of outting her teammate by getting town to flip her teammate and put doubt on herself.
Yeah. If that is scummy by Titus. That is a new one.

[ProfessorDrapion]

Don’t think I voted Johnny.
If I did it was because I was fed up with people.
But I think that was just Dwlee vote not Johnny’s.
So I don’t know why your overreacting saying I even pushed Johnny I just had them as wolf in a world that no longer was a thing and then no longer wolf read them.
Don’t compare Andante slot with Johnny slot please they were completely different.
Andante’s reads weren’t good? Dwlee was a town read that flipped wolf, I am also a guilty person of doing that.
Andante was pushed by whom of wolf? The confirmed one that is Dwlee? Nope they were never pushed by them.
VP? Nope they were town and I realize I was miss guided.
Dann? Maybe but I don’t think the dude really pushed Andante.

Firered’s reads and takes have been town? The dude has been sheeping.
Even sheeped Dat on voting me, so do you think I’m a wolf Mastina?

Nothing proves the council was all town. I’m not entirely sure it is.
I’m pretty sure wolves are split on sides right now tbh.

“Pushed by Scum” no they haven’t been.
“Town metas” say that to Titus and Nancy Drew’s “Gamma is lock town” but in the end was a wolf.
“Good Reads and Reasons” Mastina, at the beginning of the day 1, Andante made an entire town case on Dwlee. Maybe the reasons were good but still.

Also, as I’m reading I notice you saying Dann did stuff that makes them unaligned with Andante.
I’ll check it out or you can point me to some posts.

Who’s your full solve anyway Mastina?
Like Dann flips wolf, who’s the last 3?

[fireisredsir]

Firered’s reads and takes have been town? The dude has been sheeping.
Even sheeped Dat on voting me, so do you think I’m a wolf Mastina?

excuse me

i don't think ive sheeped anyone this game

i was the one who convinced datisi to vote you, not the other way around

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Execution Vote Day Four

With fourteen players alive - it will require eight votes to eliminate a player.

Eiralox [6]:

mastina, roden, ProfessorDrapion, thestatusquo, Titus, furtiveglance,

FurtiveGlance [2]:

fireisredsir, Datisi,

firebringer [2]:

GuiltyLion, Unowen,

fireisredsir [1]:

Lady Lambdadelta,

Not Voting [3]:

Enchant, Eiralox, Firebringer

Execution Deadline: (expired on 2022-12-15 22:58:35)

[Enchant]

VOTE: Datisi