Mini 2295 | Star Trek uPick - Fin!

[petapan]

sup

have read nothing of this game, was taking a mental break from mafia, but when a friend needs a replacement i cannot resist the urge to help

is there anything i should know before i start reading

[petapan]

sup

have read nothing of this game, was taking a mental break from mafia, but when a friend needs a replacement i cannot resist the urge to help

is there anything i should know before i start reading

GreyICE was motion detected to go nowhere night 1 and claimed a variant of bulletproof with no actions. They claimed this before knowing the issue was a motion detect. That slot is town, Aureal and Xyzzy are my leading candidates, especially given Aureal's push on a slot with a Motion Detector Zero Result from N1.

Also, I was role blocked N2 and no townie has appeared to claim that despite me calling for it, so it's either I'm faking my joat claim which lol or I'm town as well.

Feel free to read back. I killed Hebi scum day 1, and Rogue self hammered while we waffled between them and Aureal day 2.

i have gotten to page 9, see scum was caught early, willing to write you off as town based on how that all played out

i have certain expectations for how game dynamics play out when there's an early wagon on scum with real traction but i'll report back when i've read more

aureal push seems out there but would be fairly brazen if scum, shrug. not making up my mind until i'm fully caught up, luckily don't anticipate this being a long read

[petapan]

Spoiler:

Post Work Catch Up

Running Thoughts

My

impression

is that I don't think LLD does that to hebichan if they are scum together. Possible, but unlikely. GreyICE's part of the interaction looks more RVS than serious, but that's a

cluster

of OOG stuff I can't personally fathom.

As others have noted, xyzzy's hop onto hebichan's wagon slightly smacks of distancing. I agree that if hebichan is scum, xyzzy is partner-leaning.

I don't see a town motivated reason why Aureal unvotes hebichan in 91. At that point, I don't have a strong townread on hebichan. Aureal doesn't express one either. Why not wagon hebichan? Someone at Y-2 is kinda the end of RVS in my opinion, but Aureal seems to be sticking with goofiness at that point. Regardless of hebichan's alignment, I scumread Aureal for this. hebi's omgus vote on aureal is bad too.

Rogue might be looking for a reason to townread hebi? (130). Also 137 gives me "no we aren't in a scum PT look we are chatting here" vibes.

I find myself agreeing with Black, a lot.

LLD's "deal" with hebi indicates to me she feels in a very dominant position. Again doesn't feel partnered, but also feels NAI on LLD's part.

I'm gutreading Kokichi town but don't get the vote/unvote on GreyICE.

PenguinPower's vote on rogue is puzzling to me combined with the question in 97/220

I don't like hebi's progression on Aureal or her vote on Black.

Similarly don't like Frogs' vote on black and I don't see the relevance of the quoted posts.(235)

Don't like Rogue's "me too me too" 240 about black. Rogue/Frogs/hebichan? But I do think that team would have Rogue on xyzzy's wagon.

Wavelength joins the bad counterwagon on black.

KawaiiKame lots of questions no opinions. baa baa.

---

Black

Kokichi Oma

Lady Lambdadelta
GreyICE
KawaiiKame
PenguinPower

Wavelength
Rogue
Frogs
hebichan
Aureal
xyzzy

I could vote for any of the bottom 6 right now.

dude

[petapan]

Black/Porkens def town in this, I'm willing to believe Kokichi is town too
It's likely scum is within the Black/hebi wagons, though it's possible they outside of them

I don't agree. I think if Black is town, Porkens reads heavier scum. I can kinda see the rationale for town black but I don't think it's reasonable for it to be the highest town read in its own category for Porkens. Feels like alignment knowledge and buddying.

[petapan]

I agree with hebi's 307 - this could come from wolf!Porkens but I am feeling it is more town motivated

Kawaii's 305 feels more informed than anything Porkens has said imo. I am not sure how Porkens and I are definitely town here and the extra Koki townread seems random. 310 feels informed too

cakez 299 and 311 feels sideliney, saying there is no town thought process behind my posts but not pointing out any examples except a pressure vote on kawaii?

Porkens goes in listing all of these NAI comments on posts acting like they are good reasons to think Black is town when like...none of them are.

Porkens has provided more reasons for town!Black than your slot has provided for wolf!Black. Ali posted a bunch of quotes and said they feel like wolf but no reasoning, and now you are doing similarly here

I do believe Black feels semi lost though in a way she didn't feel b4

I have a feeling it is the lack of contractions. Maybe I sound robotic to you XD

I feel most confident of scum in one of black/porkens still, kokichi is pretty weak iso but he's been gone awhile.

Your initial vote on me was pressure but now I am your most confident scumread, along with the person that townreads me? That is quite the progression. I think you should elaborate on your scumreads of Porkens and I

Porkens is my most confident scumread. Your flip would be more interesting. You flipping town always results in me voting porken tomorrow, you flipping scum would likely make porkens town cause why buddy so close to a scum partner.

i mean

[petapan]

What if she's mafia who thought there was a 3P and that's why she went all-out on hebi? Wouldn't mafia want to figure out the 3P, maybe even moreso than town who's just clueless to its existence?

this is

probably not a post scum makes particularly about someone who is burying their partner

caveat being that someone who hasn't rolled scum in 17 years could have a very different meta wrt my expectations for how scum generally play

but it's just a very out there post

[petapan]

Aureal and Xyzzy are my leading candidates, especially given Aureal's push on a slot with a Motion Detector Zero Result from N1.

imo aureal/xyzzy are unlikely to be scum/scum based on 534/551 - at that point in time hebi is flailing and i struggle to believe the remaining two scum decide to go at each other's throats in that way

if i had to make a snap decision based on what i've read so far (on page 23 atm), i'd go xyzzy over aureal quite easily, fits the profile of a busser moreso than aureal

and i think in general in these situations where one teammate gets caught early it induces quite a bit of fear in scum - it's a very difficult decision to make in the spur of the moment, hesitate too much and your teammate could die and then everyone will point their finger at you for not voting them, but if you overcommit you risk damning your partner when they could have wriggled out of it, or even getting called for looking overconfident

so in general the profile i expect is for partners to be going along with the vote but quitely while testing out the possibilities for other options n that is kind of how i read xyzzy's early vote on hebi along with that wall where they made a point to pressure hebi in a somewhat on the nose way while ultimately voting aureal

[petapan]

So a non-town claim.

Vote: Hebi

I will not go into a long explanation of why this is always, always, always, always the correct move. A brief summary:

- The moderator has not confirmed the existence of a non-hostile, non-town faction. There's no evidence it exists. There's a known non-town faction - it's Mafia. Occam's Razor.
- Fferyllt likes fairly vanilla roles. For instance their design document for Tarot Mafia, despite having an incredibly complicated picking procedure, has mostly "modified vanilla" roles: viewtopic.php?p=12857475#p12857475
- It's a mini normal, 13 players doesn't give much room for a non-town, non-hostile faction.
-

It's day 1, we're guaranteed not to eliminate town by doing this

The last one should be the only one that matters.

eliminating hebichan here as policy doesn't give us useful info for day 2. if we later have reason to believe hebichan is lying scum, we can circle back around to that. if we eliminate town on day 1, that's obviously bad, but it gives us a wealth of information that eliminating a claimed survivor does not. the drawback of going into day 2 with less to work with is far greater than the "at least we didn't lose a town player" moral victory, especially because it doesn't stop us from getting closer to a scum win.

i mean

[petapan]

381 I don't care for the "that was pocketing?" comment. on the one hand I'd be willing to believe that Aureal genuinely isn't sure whether daytalk is a default thing or how PTs work. on the other hand I still get such bad vibes from 359, and this doesn't really mitigate those.

Is it on the site somewhere that it's a default thing??? I'm not even sure where to look for that! It seems extremely common but my experience could be misdirecting me. Many games explicitly state that mafia can communicate at all times- it's required to be stated for Normal games according to the Encryptor wiki page, and I've only played Normals and Opens.

Why are we even arguing about this??

my point was that you had the tone of someone who

does

know how PTs work because you're scum in this game, and in lying about it, you oversold it.

don't believe this is a remotely genuine accusation

just picking out something irrelevant and trying to make a big deal of it

[petapan]

E-1 someone hammer

Should we really cut the day this short?

this is irrelevant since black was dead but lol it was page goddamn 25 with caught scum that's a perfect spot to end the day

[petapan]

sad greyice is also getting replaced because if he was here i would be like "yo let's yeet xyzzy"

[petapan]

Hey petapan when you get the chance can you answer this question for me? If you had night actions in this game and their effect was not revealed to you before you chose which to use, would you ever target the person who partway through day one said "oh by the way I just realized I'm probably a Miller" and if so, why?

1.

Also, I think I might have seen somewhere that you're also catboi?

2.

What if she's mafia who thought there was a 3P and that's why she went all-out on hebi? Wouldn't mafia want to figure out the 3P, maybe even moreso than town who's just clueless to its existence?

this is

probably not a post scum makes particularly about someone who is burying their partner

caveat being that someone who hasn't rolled scum in 17 years could have a very different meta wrt my expectations for how scum generally play

but it's just a very out there post

I really don't see what's out there about the idea that scum in mutiball are going to want to at least start off by scumhunting the other team. But I do seem to get that reaction a lot.

3.

I'm not really even sure what you mean by burying their partner, even... I was talking about LLD there wasn't I? I grow ever more suspicious that she is a hebi partner but you aren't on that boat.

4.

1.

sure, why not? if someone is a claimed miller and you strongly suspected that person was scum it makes sense to target them with a randomized night action. the downside is very low as opposed to targeting a townread where you could potentially kill/block a townie. i guess there's a possibility you could waste a cop check on a claimed miller but that's still a pretty minute possibility?

i wouldn't personally have scumread greyICE off day 1 but i can see her having that read

2.

yes, that's my alt. if you're going to hold one newbie game where i had trash reads against me, don't

3.

i just think it's unlikely to be something that a player with a scum role PM comes up with. it's paranoid and inventive of a possible scum/3p conflict that maybe makes sense to a townie with no idea how a game would be balanced and not a scumbuddy who knows hebi is full of it

4.

Yes I'm saying scum-you doesn't start trying to push town-LLD when she has hebi dead to rights and most of the town is following her on it

[petapan]

Wait I thought miller was exclusively cop results and the others had corresponding names (gravedigger)

Is this a new thing?

I don't know but I specifically remember a game with a miller who returned guilty track results within the past few months.

and given someone claimed MILLER and that's a claim that has to die at some point, I figured checking it and getting ZERO RESULTS, either targetting or being targetted by was suspicious and also didn't make sense for a miller.

Why are you okay with his Miller claim being "oh that line of text in every role pm of town that is "there is a mechanic that is not known" and he goes "oh that makes me miller, miller claim"

or the self-revival claim

this is like

completely illogical for she'd approach a partner day 2 if she'd hellbussed one on day 1 especially when most of the game was willing to give GI a free pass

[petapan]

Like my heart says vote Xyzzy they're obvious scum.

as far as I can tell, the only thing I've done that you've said was scummy was have a differing philosophy about how to respond to a survivor claim. do you have any other basis for that at all?

woof

[petapan]

penguinpower is town as of page 34

[petapan]

i guess my big question that i was kind of winding up to is, does anyone townread porkens, because hebi's posts about him looked like the clearest case of scum talking about a partner

[petapan]

Basically, Porken's big post 280, and its reads list, look like scum positioning around hebi's flip.

Every single one of his red colored reads is dependent on Hebi being scum, and how that person could be partnered with a scum Hebi.

Which is a bad way to scum hunt in general, but if you are hunting based on preflipping your top scum read, then it does not make any sense to be open to eliminating any of the potential partners before hebi, but his post ends with

"I could vote for any of the bottom 6 right now."

mostly skipping the posts of dead players but this caught my eye

[petapan]

if you want a wagon may i suggest xyzzy?

What’s your case on xyzzy?

[petapan]

i've been taking a very small amount of notes here

i don't think aureal is scum with porkens, she's not scum with xyzzy, she's probably not scum with kokichi

she's definitely not scum with LLD. scum with greyice is very unlikely although I've seen crazier play

and I think PP is just town

so i don't think aureal is scum here even without taking individual posts into account

[petapan]

Nah I can kill Porkens too. As much as Aureal is like.... Frustrating, Porkens taking my side there instead of defusing is weird to me

yeah i can understand the frustration i just do not think it is being caused by someone with a scum win condition

[petapan]

Wait I thought miller was exclusively cop results and the others had corresponding names (gravedigger)

Is this a new thing?

I don't know but I specifically remember a game with a miller who returned guilty track results within the past few months.

and given someone claimed MILLER and that's a claim that has to die at some point, I figured checking it and getting ZERO RESULTS, either targetting or being targetted by was suspicious and also didn't make sense for a miller.

Why are you okay with his Miller claim being "oh that line of text in every role pm of town that is "there is a mechanic that is not known" and he goes "oh that makes me miller, miller claim"

or the self-revival claim

this is like

completely illogical for she'd approach a partner day 2 if she'd hellbussed one on day 1 especially when most of the game was willing to give GI a free pass

Well she's now trying to say he's definitely town because of it, so. Uh. IDK about that.

Also good to see you again, dw I would never hold reads against someone, lol. Unless they were a total asshole about them maybe.

glad to hear it, you were like the one source of sanity in that game which otherwise tilted me off the face of the planet - don't think i can play newbies anymore, the last 2 i tried were goddamn miserable

[petapan]

Actually Kawaii Aureal Hebi would explain a ton about how Hebi died so easily

it absolutely would

[petapan]

but so would xyzzy/porkens and that's my snap guess as to the team

[petapan]

Actually Kawaii Aureal Hebi would explain a ton about how Hebi died so easily

it absolutely would

but so would xyzzy/porkens and that's my snap guess as to the team

I don't disagree.

I'm just... mmm.

I'm finding msyelf wanting to go along with you because it helps me detilt from this game having a person to feedback bounce with and work with.

But I'm leery of you as well, so I need to do my due dilligence and be like "hey if we do this and it's a town flip and I die tonight people need to look you/Aureal as a option and eliminate one there to examine that option"

yeah fair fair i know where you're coming from, we've done this dance before, but hopefully this time i just nail the scum in one go

[petapan]

And yes, in advance, I'm a raging bitch. It's okay.

I'm also right.

Belongs in the “give feedback for funney psots” threade.


But can’t talk about ongoing game, so…

VOTE: rogue I don’t totally see it but I trust you

yeah porkens is just scum here

[petapan]

Well I'm apparently scum if I don't vote you and scum if I do vote you,

Aureal is so focused on her thread position this game

VOTE: Aureal

I will be around if my vote is needed to move before deadline, but I believe in this the most.

And why would I not be? Voting town out doesn't help town.

This happens to me literally every time I set foot outside the newbie queue. It's getting old. And particularly infuriating when people don't even have any reasons for it.

this is a frustrated townie

[petapan]

No you are wrong. Your reads are bad

okay, that isn't very persuasive

[petapan]

why am i wrong? who else is scum besides aureal? you made 1 mediocre wallpost day 1 and coasted off that and have basically not attempted to solve at all since then

[petapan]

I'll vote Porkens but can you explain why you don't think it's Grey despite the awful perspective slip from "kill LLD" on day two to "LLD day one actions make her obvtown" on day three?

he changed his mind probably

like there was a whole conversation between the post you quoted where he was like "get 6 votes on lld" and the later post from day 3. i think it's reasonable for his view to change based on information + time to consider it, or possibly straight up forgetting due to being less involved with the game (which would be a nulltell). i sure wish he were here to be able to answer for himself but that's not that world we live in

i don't think he was faking a derp clear with assuming he could be a miller

i think in particular day 1 doesn't go down the way it does if he's partners with hebi. i think hebi runs the claim by him and he tells her it's a terrible idea, rather than letting her claim something terrible so that he can bury her

[petapan]

VOTE: porkens

might as well turn up the heat here when i have questions i want answered and his response to me stunk

i think both he and xyzzy kind of fit the profile of lurker scum who are hiding away while town eats itself - the one thing that gives me pause on xyz is wavelength had a townread on them and ate the nightkill, but xyz isn't really solving and basically hasn't been all game - i have a soft spot for low volume posters but you gotta give me something at some point

the alternate possibility is kokichi being scum but i kind of gut townlean him and he's at least made some posts that look like he's scumhunting

[petapan]

i afked friday gimme a minute to catch up

[petapan]

hey MB, GreyICE claimed to have a one-shot death immunity (but didn't clarify what stipulations were on that) and a miller modifier. I asked for some clarification on the flavor and details of both of those and never got it. could you please go into some details about that

the fact that this is the only thing xyzzy feels compelled to comment on after a million years just feels incredibly scummy

like, i would expect town to be concerned about the mechanics, i'm not faulting that

but it feels like they don't have anything else they're interested in and they're just hiding behind this mechanical confusion in lieu of actually doing anything

[petapan]

i guess my big question that i was kind of winding up to is, does anyone townread porkens, because hebi's posts about him looked like the clearest case of scum talking about a partner

This is a claim I challenge you to back up.

LLD why should we vote Pork and not Aureal?

cause if Peta is town peta's got fresh eyes that see where my frustrated eyes can't

Aureal is tremendously frustrating to play with, which makes my assessments skewed by that frustration. I'm not thinking Peta and Aureal can't be scum, I'm just townreading Peta on initial entrance (which makes me alittle scared not gonna lie) and wantign to give Peta his crack at the apple

his Porkens case is convincing, Porkens' reaction is similarly convincing. feels like Porkens is more upset that a replacement shattered the status quo than upset about being wrongly read

No it doesn't feel like that.

bruh if you're town you're gonna need to give more than snippity defiant one liners

i asked you some questions in 1322 that i want answers to because you need to, like, actually explain your thoughts on the game, which i know you are capable of

i am open to the possibility i am wrong on you because you simply haven't been that invested in this game but you need to make yourself findable if you are town because right now it looks like you were coasting and didn't know how to handle getting called out unexpectedly by a replacement

[petapan]

since porkens asked me to back it up

Huh, ok. I guess that doesn't seem overtly solvey to me.

Mostly I feel that the Black wagon is kinda unfounded and seems in response to counter yours intentionally. I think that mroe than anything is the seed of my read.

I voted black for pressure at first but obviously you don't say that when you vote. I haven't read anything since that's made me feel like moving.

Tell me why you think Black is town and I'll see if I find it convincing.

Black/Porkens def town in this, I'm willing to believe Kokichi is town too
It's likely scum is within the Black/hebi wagons, though it's possible they outside of them

I don't agree.

I think if Black is town, Porkens reads heavier scum.

I can kinda see the rationale for town black but I don't think it's reasonable for it to be the highest town read in its own category for Porkens.

Feels like alignment knowledge and buddying.

Who should I have at the top?

I dunno. I don't think there's enough game information for you to have any too read here.

Black/Porkens def town in this, I'm willing to believe Kokichi is town too
It's likely scum is within the Black/hebi wagons, though it's possible they outside of them

I don't agree. I think if Black is town, Porkens reads heavier scum. I can kinda see the rationale for town black but I don't think it's reasonable for it to be the highest town read in its own category for Porkens. Feels like alignment knowledge and buddying.

I feel it's town to defend town, though I'm with you that Black should be above Porkens in being town since Black created the post while Porkens analyzed them

It's NAI to defend town, it's scummy to be the knight in shining armor "you're my top town read" person when they have a decent wagon on them.

It's likely scum is within the Black/hebi wagons, though it's possible they outside of them

who are the scum you are pointing to here? this is vague handwaving

-sc

It is vague, I'm voicing my thoughts on what's likely/wanting to narrow down who in the Black/hepi wagons is most likely scum, making notes

I'm kinda unfamiliar or just have played with a lot of these people in a long time. Anyone being uncharacteristic in how quiet rhey are since voting?

0nly one who fits this is Kokichi

I considered this then considered it could just be bad hours for him.

Definitely possible, the Rogue wagon looked weird to me when I was looking at it in the opening, like I didn't see why Rogue was being voted at all

I dunno. It felt very rvs to me. Hard to read into those. I don't think there's much content to read into until lld scumread me and I feel like she's town and GreyIce hasn't pinged me either way.

I feel most confident of scum in one of black/porkens still

, kokichi is pretty weak iso but he's been gone awhile.

Frogs has been better since cakez jumped in, aureal had a few good posts but not the best iso.

You just feel like lost town I guess?

Xyzzy cab be town

Everyone else I want more out of.

I agree with hebi's 307 - this could come from wolf!Porkens but I am feeling it is more town motivated

Kawaii's 305 feels more informed than anything Porkens has said imo. I am not sure how Porkens and I are definitely town here and the extra Koki townread seems random. 310 feels informed too

cakez 299 and 311 feels sideliney, saying there is no town thought process behind my posts but not pointing out any examples except a pressure vote on kawaii?

Porkens goes in listing all of these NAI comments on posts acting like they are good reasons to think Black is town when like...none of them are.

Porkens has provided more reasons for town!Black than your slot has provided for wolf!Black. Ali posted a bunch of quotes and said they feel like wolf but no reasoning, and now you are doing similarly here

I do believe Black feels semi lost though in a way she didn't feel b4

I have a feeling it is the lack of contractions. Maybe I sound robotic to you XD

I feel most confident of scum in one of black/porkens still, kokichi is pretty weak iso but he's been gone awhile.

Your initial vote on me was pressure but now I am your most confident scumread, along with the person that townreads me? That is quite the progression. I think you should elaborate on your scumreads of Porkens and I

Porkens is my most confident scumread. Your flip would be more interesting.

You flipping town always results in me voting porken tomorrow, you flipping scum would likely make porkens town cause why buddy so close to a scum partner.

the last bit in particular is really tortured and just reads like classic scum blunder of fosing their partner while voting a townie and having to argue bad logic to support it. overall there's a weird level of confidence in porkens as scum but not in a way that feels opportunistic since there asn't much pressure on him, just comes across as flail-distancing

i wouldn't necessarily say stuff like this is in and of itself damning since scum can lay traps but combined with how porkens spoke about hebi + porkens's general blahness it looks really bad

[petapan]

LLD why should we vote Pork and not Aureal?

i mean i have made some arguments about aureal if you'd like to talk to me or recognize my existence

[petapan]

hey MB, GreyICE claimed to have a one-shot death immunity (but didn't clarify what stipulations were on that) and a miller modifier. I asked for some clarification on the flavor and details of both of those and never got it. could you please go into some details about that

the fact that this is the only thing xyzzy feels compelled to comment on after a million years just feels incredibly scummy

like, i would expect town to be concerned about the mechanics, i'm not faulting that

but it feels like they don't have anything else they're interested in and they're just hiding behind this mechanical confusion in lieu of actually doing anything

I have a specific reason to be curious about this that I'd like to not get into until I have an answer; GreyICE avoided my question, and I think it'll be very telling if MB chooses to do the same.

ok i guess

[petapan]

porkens is point blank refusing to answer questions and engage meaningfully with anything i've brought up, i've gone from "should maybe die" to "should definitely be the yeet today"

[petapan]

sup

have read nothing of this game, was taking a mental break from mafia, but when a friend needs a replacement i cannot resist the urge to help

is there anything i should know before i start reading

GreyICE was motion detected to go nowhere night 1 and claimed a variant of bulletproof with no actions. They claimed this before knowing the issue was a motion detect. That slot is town, Aureal and Xyzzy are my leading candidates, especially given Aureal's push on a slot with a Motion Detector Zero Result from N1.

Also, I was role blocked N2 and no townie has appeared to claim that despite me calling for it, so it's either I'm faking my joat claim which lol or I'm town as well.

Feel free to read back. I killed Hebi scum day 1, and Rogue self hammered while we waffled between them and Aureal day 2.

i have gotten to page 9, see scum was caught early, willing to write you off as town based on how that all played out

i have certain expectations for how game dynamics play out when there's an early wagon on scum with real traction but i'll report back when i've read more

aureal push seems out there but would be fairly brazen if scum, shrug. not making up my mind until i'm fully caught up, luckily don't anticipate this being a long read

What if she's mafia who thought there was a 3P and that's why she went all-out on hebi? Wouldn't mafia want to figure out the 3P, maybe even moreso than town who's just clueless to its existence?

this is

probably not a post scum makes particularly about someone who is burying their partner

caveat being that someone who hasn't rolled scum in 17 years could have a very different meta wrt my expectations for how scum generally play

but it's just a very out there post

i've been taking a very small amount of notes here

i don't think aureal is scum with porkens, she's not scum with xyzzy, she's probably not scum with kokichi

she's definitely not scum with LLD. scum with greyice is very unlikely although I've seen crazier play

and I think PP is just town

so i don't think aureal is scum here even without taking individual posts into account

these posts, i guess i could go into it in more detail if necessary

also porkens is just rolling over and dying, which, like, i cannot see as town in this situation

[petapan]

LLD why should we vote Pork and not Aureal?

i mean i have made some arguments about aureal if you'd like to talk to me or recognize my existence

Can you quote it. I've been checked out the past few days

also, what would it take to get you checked back in here

[petapan]

because, real talk, at a minimum one of you/xyzzy/porkens is town

however if yall continue to do absolutely nothing, i will just vote you and not even care if i'm throwing the game to scum because at least they'll have wanted to actually win

the game is entirely winnable for town still but it requires those players who have been inactive/demotivated to get off their ass and start doing things, it doesn't take much, just come in here and explain your thought process

i cannot hero solve a game where a bunch of people aren't doing things. maybe if i were a better player i could but as it is i need townies to actually, you know,

be town

i get why the game stalled out and it's nobody's fault really, it was factors beyond people's control including needing multiple replacements, but i'm here now and i'm trying to kickstart some life into this game so please, help me out and meet me halfway here

[petapan]

thanks

[petapan]

because, real talk, at a minimum one of you/xyzzy/porkens is town

however if yall continue to do absolutely nothing, i will just vote you and not even care if i'm throwing the game to scum because at least they'll have wanted to actually win

the game is entirely winnable for town still but it requires those players who have been inactive/demotivated to get off their ass and start doing things, it doesn't take much, just come in here and explain your thought process

i cannot hero solve a game where a bunch of people aren't doing things. maybe if i were a better player i could but as it is i need townies to actually, you know,

be town

i get why the game stalled out and it's nobody's fault really, it was factors beyond people's control including needing multiple replacements, but i'm here now and i'm trying to kickstart some life into this game so please, help me out and meet me halfway here

You replaced kawaii who was likely scum, so I don't care if you vote me

i appreciate you at least laying that out for me - i get why you were scumreading kawaii, i saw the case, it's understandable but also it's wrong

to be clear i was not threatening you with an imminent vote, i'd just like for you to become engaged

i'm here and i'd like to be given a chance, or at the very least have some form of substantive conversation with you

[petapan]

(i do think that is likely a town-indicative response and alleviates my doubts/concerns fwiw)

[petapan]

porkens remind me again why you're so confident aureal is scum?

[petapan]

uhhh ok then

[petapan]

okay then

not sure where to go from here exactly

[petapan]

no, the action gets refunded by default?

anyway, are you saying you refund charges of abilities that players have used?

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

i don't want any potential interruptions to this line of questioning but i'm not backing down

[petapan]

I basically give you another charge of your one shot by “repairing” the lost one to use or block.

please just explain to me how this works in clear terms

you target someone and give them a charge of their action back, right? does it only work on actions they use the same night?

[petapan]

that's an incredibly specific and unlikely use case given it requires specifically for an action to fail and be expended and none of the flipped roles so far have a built in failure mode, meaning it would have to come from an outside source


why would you use a once per game ability on someone who has not claimed to have had a failed action?

[petapan]

[spock voice] it's not

literally

impossible for the action to have failed for non-roleblock reasons but it is

highly improbable

[petapan]

yeah i don't buy this at all, a refresher clam might have been plausible but this sounds too limited to be real, the usage doesn't make sense (blowing a once per game action randomly with no indication it would work), and i kind of think he just tried to claim the refund without being aware of the mechanics


at this point i want to flip him and just say lolffery if that is a real role

VOTE: porkens

if you are town here i am sorry but this is not really your fault

[petapan]

oh for future reference in case i'm NKed

i think it's not impossible xyzzy is town and i'm misreading someone else but they need to be held accountable for whatever softclaim nonsense they're doing w/r/t the greyice slot

you might have to policy kill them anyway because they're not really playing the game and are an absolute liability if town

[petapan]

hey MB, GreyICE claimed to have a one-shot death immunity (but didn't clarify what stipulations were on that) and a miller modifier. I asked for some clarification on the flavor and details of both of those and never got it. could you please go into some details about that

the fact that this is the only thing xyzzy feels compelled to comment on after a million years just feels incredibly scummy

like, i would expect town to be concerned about the mechanics, i'm not faulting that

but it feels like they don't have anything else they're interested in and they're just hiding behind this mechanical confusion in lieu of actually doing anything

I have a specific reason to be curious about this that I'd like to not get into until I have an answer; GreyICE avoided my question, and I think it'll be very telling if MB chooses to do the same.

hi, can you please answer this today

[petapan]

lazy read but auriel is probably just town
locking it in unless its f3

so xyzzzy/Penguin/Kokichi

wouldn't be confident in that lol

[petapan]

hi, can you please answer this today

yeah, actually, six players and probably just one scum left seems like a reasonable time to spill the beans.

I'm Una Chin-Riley, Number One from the original pilot and Strange New Worlds. (I mentioned the fact that I'm a first officer in my first post of the game.)

if you haven't seen Strange New Worlds, this is spoilers for that: I'm secretly an Illyrian, a species banned from the Federation for genetic modification.

this has two effects: first, the first time a non-elimination kill would happen to me, I survive. second, I'm a miller — the exact wording of the results someone investigating me would receive describe me as not part of the temporal alliance rather than specifically identifying me as a member of a non-town faction.

which, I'm sure you've picked up on, is the exact same claim that GreyICE made. it's very possible that fferylit opted to include two identical roles, but the fact that GreyICE introduced the miller possibility as speculation rather than an explicit role PM detail sure is weird. as noted, we've had a scum role and a town role that both have a "target a player, if they share this flavor component with you, you get a neighborhood with them" aspect.

so it feels not out of the question that, during balancing, some scum roles were given equivalent town roles (or vice versa), and scum are informed about this aspect of the setup. hence both GreyICE and MB being so cagey about that claim once I started asking questions. that being said, that

would

have to be a decision made after alignments were randomized, and I'm not sure whether such a big change is probable. it's also possible that there were just multiple overlapping roles from the start. that doesn't really provide a satisfying answer to GreyICE's weird miller claim, though — if you're claiming miller as a town player, I can't see a good reason to hedge it as being speculation about the setup.

interesting

for the record greyice walked the claim back and we decided it was likely he derped on the second ability but multiple bulletproof claims is ?surprising? as well as the miller thing when i don't think we've even had an investigative flip

i still think greyice in all likelihood was probably just town but i think the claim here isn't implausible

[petapan]

i *think* this is penguin's town meta but i'd need to double-check to be certain. plenty of time to do so obv


at any rate i'd like for today to be a mass claim day

scum are confirmed to have a roleblocker

[petapan]

Okay, I'm back to LLD using motion detector on a claimed Miller. We now see that she knew what the ability was before choosing a target, it wasn't unknown like we thought. Is this the normal expectation for what to do with a Miller claim, use an investigative action on it??

she *did not know* what her actions did, read the flips

[petapan]

I did read it, it's quite clear that the order is
1) choose host
2) find out what it does
3) choose target

oh, okay

i think it makes sense in a world she had a pocket scumread on greyice and was hoping to catch him in a lie, although it doesn't make as much sense if she *expected* a miller to give her a positive result

regardless, there is literally nothing less important than debating about the night action choice of a dead town player? she did what she did and it's done. I think greyice's slot is 99.9% town given there is confirmed to be a scum roleblocker in the game

[petapan]

I got a question to xyzzy
if you know you're a miller then why didn't you claim it at d1?
thats 100% should be your first posts of the game instead of a flavor hint

it would've been good for the town if I'd been the target of a night kill; if I claim miller, scum is directly incentivized to leave me alone. I'm also not convinced it would've been at all beneficial to the town — a miller claim is inherently super WIFOM-y. there's obviously the drawback that an investigative role might waste a night checking me instead of just assuming I'd for sure come up scum, but that drawback doesn't outweigh the benefit of possibly blanking a night kill imo.

tanking a night kill is 100% not worth it compared to possibly outing our investigatives which ends up in you getting elim as town and inves getting nked

Even if it does theres very small chances of you getting shot by scum this game.
You've been suspected the whole game and its more likely that you get investigated than getting nked
You should've given up that plan much much earlier

yeah that sounds super delusional

[petapan]

I'll get to this tomorrow. But, I hate that I went back on my pork read. Also I'm still so confused about Borg. Is it actually a 3rd party? or what. Both borgs have been scum and Kawaii slot claimed borg. Soo...

no it's literally just flavor

the scum roles had the ability to interact with players with borg flavor, in particular porkens could affect their actions with his role

this means that unless you assume the game is outright bastard there should be at least one town member with a borg role

[petapan]

i had already come around to xyzzy being town just on the whole way they'd claimed bulletproof

@mod: I'm voting Kokichi.

Hmmmm.

Alright then, I do kinda believe the treestump thing given the way Grey worded it. I'm not

entirely

convinced this slot is clear, but it seems unlikely that MB plays the way they do, TRing me and bussing Porkens, if they're the last Black Ops.

So, here's my info. I'm the Chief of Security, Tasha Yar. I put xyzzy in the brig last night. So it's pretty unlikely xyzzy made that nightkill. Unless we think they used the Unstoppable shot from the Borg Queen on LLD for some reason when they think they'd need it to kill MB, or there's someone else out there who made that kill, xyzzy should be clear.

So can we just vote Kokichi already? He's clearly not at all interested in playing this- odds are it's just because he's scum who's checked out of a game they feel is unwinnable. Even if this is town, we can't take this complete and utter apathy to a potential final four.

what are your night actions, in full?

[petapan]

my full flavor is the borg collective, i can copy the action of a player i target at night if they use a non-factional, non-killing action that night and use it on a later night

on night 1 kawaiikame targeted black and didn't get anything, night 2 was no action submitted

i targeted lld last night because she had an unknown 3rd ability which turned out to be a lousy vote stealing ability

[petapan]

auriel who did you target the previous nights?

@Kokichi
@Penguin
@petapan
We need your fullclaims

i don't have any night actions

what is your role then?

[petapan]

my full flavor is the borg collective, i can copy the action of a player i target at night if they use a non-factional, non-killing action that night and use it on a later night

on night 1 kawaiikame targeted black and didn't get anything, night 2 was no action submitted

i targeted lld last night because she had an unknown 3rd ability which turned out to be a lousy vote stealing ability

Isn't borg collective the name of a group
so you got no night 2 because kawaii didn't submit any?

Mech talk

So I've got a theory because of the surprisingly lack of borgs this game given that mafia's two flipped roles is based around them
I thought at first that borg might be a traitor because of hebi's kit of finding borgs and adding them into a neigborhood but porkens literally got a role for using them as bodyshields so it doesn't make sense that they're aligned.
So maybe borgs exists outside of the original flavor
Idk if you've noticed but hebi's role mentioned the borg collective in it

Hebichan was

Seven Of Nine, Borg Liaison of Black Ops

.

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to the strangest temporal anomaly ever observed in the Four Quadrants!

You are

Seven Of Nine, Borg Liaison of Black Ops

.

With experience and exposure, you've grown impatient with the way Starfleet regulations too often tie the Federation's hands when it comes to responding to threats and opportunities. Section 31 discovered this and recruited you as an expert on the Borg and Black Ops liaison [redacted]. The temporal anomaly represents both existential threat and unimaginable opportunity for Starfleet, for the Federation, and for a potential alliance of equals with the Borg. You are ready to help grasp the opportunity and and neutralize the threat.

Your abilities:

• Speak Freely:
  The Black Ops Team are [redacted]. You can communicate privately at any time during the game, day or night here (PT link).
  
• You say that I am a human being and yet, I am also Borg:
  Each night you can visit another player. Your implants will detect if that player is or has ever been a part of the Borg Collective.
  
• Time to regenerate:
  If you learn that the player you visit is or has been Borg, you have the option to create a neighborhood with the player. Once the neighborhood is established, you can choose to add any subsequent Borg/former Borg you locate to the neighborhood.
  
• You will be assimilated:
  Should [redacted] be eliminated or killed, you will be able to assimilate and salvage any actions [they] had not yet used. You will be able to use those actions with the same conditions and restrictions starting on the next Night phase.
  
• Critical Intelligence:
  You know that the second to last ability in every
  Temporal Alliance
  role pm is "
  
• Citizen of the Galaxy:
  While you live, you have the inalienable right to use your voice and your vote as you see fit.

Win Condition:

You win when

Black Ops

achieves numerical parity with remaining non-

Black Ops

players.

The Game thread is here: viewtopic.php?t=90629

Please confirm by replying with a paraphrase or quote of the third Game Specific Rule.

Since your flavor is borg collective maybe you're turning people into borgs or something

petapan could honestly be 3p but we worry about that after we flip scum

i'd have to be 3rd party without a kill regardless but i'm just town

and no i'm just copying the abilities people use

[petapan]

Hmm, I'm a little concerned about MB's questions, feels like maybe trying to figure out if they need to kill me tonight instead of you. Do you want me to answer them, peta? I assure you that I can see no useful protown information in the answers but I'll answer if you want.

uh i think your targets on previous nights are absolutely relevant

and i don't see any real chance of the greyice slot being scum especially with the mechanical info

[petapan]

why are you sure?
dont you have the strange world ability
Isnt it weird that hebi could find people who's part of the borg collective and your flavor is literally the borg collective
besides theres got to be something to explain the lack of borgs

yes i have the strange new world ability but that would point away from me actually making people into borgs since it's part of my role PM, yes?

it's not...impossible that the roles designed were simply extremely limited in their utility

rogue had an ability to neighborize people who were characters from the reboot films, afaik none of them have flipped and I'm not sure anyone ha claimed one? so that's pretty likely to be limited

[petapan]

auriel who did you target the previous nights?

@Kokichi
@Penguin
@petapan
We need your fullclaims

i don't have any night actions

what is your role then?

I'll be revealed in 1 real life day from now. No need to worry. Question is who do you think is scum and why

i was entertaining the idea i was wrong on aureal

[petapan]

lol

[petapan]

oh i know what role kokichi is claiming lol

Sorry - work has thrown me a lot of curveballs this month. I'll have time this weekend to get caught up.

whenever you get here, before you fully catch up, can you fullclaim to help us finish massclaim?

[petapan]

peta who is scum, you didn't answer

i was going to say i thought it might be aureal but that was before i saw the fullclaim

[petapan]

kokichi is very obviously the counterpart to wavelength's role

[petapan]

I didn't target anyone night 2 because I was saving my shots for a more useful opportunity. I'm a JOAT with multiple flavors of protective. I used a Bodyguard shot on Black. Hence my worry about Alisae being a vig. As it turns out, she was, but of a kind that gets a special phase of its own so it can ignore protective night actions.

this is a really weird claim to me because i would assume a bodyguard would not affect venge though i don't know why aureal would lie about it

while i think there's definitely protectives in the game since mafia could give themselves a strongman, penguin's role seems kind of weak

[petapan]

i thought what was suspect was that even though porkens spent most of the game pushing aureal for no reason aureal didn't really push back on him that much

but it might just be penguin gimme a minute

[petapan]

I guess that's fair.

You’re calling breaking up the coalition fair?

You sure it’s not because penguin doesn’t want to vote his scum buddy rogue?

Vote:Penguin

Two scum caught, page 3

If you think rogue is scum with penguin just stick on the wagon with us. Don't split on penguin.

PenguinPower's vote on rogue is puzzling to me combined with the question in 97/220

And yes, in advance, I'm a raging bitch. It's okay.

I'm also right.

Belongs in the “give feedback for funney psots” threade.


But can’t talk about ongoing game, so…

VOTE: rogue I don’t totally see it but I trust you

I know I said I think wave is less scummy now, but I would still like an answer

I’m not feeling wave scum at all.

On the other hand, we should wagon Aureal.

Oh...ok, why is wave not scum?

What do you care?

minimal levels of interaction between the 3

[petapan]

aureal's claim is more detailed which makes me think less likely to be fabricated given the roles in the setup. a single 1-shot doc seems too weak. penguin's posts are weaker than i thought. most likely i'm alive because i was misclearing someone.

VOTE: penguin

[petapan]

I really need you to explain in depth why you've cleared MB and Kokichi, petapan. I asked earlier and you never elaborated- I really don't follow how there being a mafia roleblocker clears MB. I don't see how Kokichi's role is obvious let alone that it must be town. While I agree that Penguin's roleclaim is weak, we really need this stuff spelled out if it's true and we end up in MELO.

greyice was motion detectd as going nowhere on night 1, which in all likelihood means he is not the roleblocker as i would assume the roleblocker would have acted night 1. I also think mislim bait is being towny?


read wavelength's flip. i think kokichi is pretty clearly the counterpart to that role. that doesn't preclude being a scum roleblocker necessarily i just kind of think the way he went about it was towny and him sniping at me yesterday read more like disinterested town who was hung up on their pet read over scum who was feeling a threat from a new replacement

by contract, penguinpower's role feels like it more or less counter claims yours by being a protective and that's slightly too much protective power for the setup i think, plus one-shot doc is just a little too weak compared to everyone else's role

[petapan]

ok sure go ahead

[petapan]

The recipient players will be able to use the devices on a subsequent night.

cloaking device couldn't have been used on night 1

[petapan]

I see where you're going with the roleblocker thing now but still there's some assumptions being made. 1) the roleblocker might have limited shots and thus didn't do anything night one to conserve them 2) the cloaking action from the Borg Queen might have been used (though that's not too likely)

And I have read Wave's flip several times. That's why I want you to explain why you're so sure there, because I see an awful lot of assumptions being made. The unknown person who approves the court-martial might not even have that in their role at all and know nothing about it until they get a message about it.

do you think he's bluffing about having it? lol

[petapan]

regardless of all that, do you have an actual reason to townread penguin?

[petapan]

regardless of all that, do you have an actual reason to townread penguin?

I was vaguely townreading him because he was lightly defending me when I was getting pushed. It's not much- they could've just figured I was doomed by LLD's temper sooner rather than later and not needed to have both scum coming after me- but it's a bit. Not saying I don't think there's a chance he's scum here.

I kinda want kokichi to use his role before we elim penguin

Well if he does have that court-martial thing it's too late to use it today.

VOTE: No Elimination

sigh

scum will quite often distance themselves from a wagon they see as a mis-elim

[petapan]

I prefer no voting at f4 than now just because we probably elim one of penguin or kokichi later anyway
saves us the time of waiting 2 rl days
we could just get scum today and end it

i would also prefer this

i think we should yeeteth the penguin and no one has provided me a good reason not to

[petapan]

scum will quite often distance themselves from a wagon they see as

an inevitable

mis-elim

EBWOP

[petapan]

i think we should yeeteth the penguin and no one has provided me a good reason not to

i'm town

that's a pretty good reason

then who's scum

[petapan]

xyzzy probably

so you think they strongarmed the kill or what?

[petapan]

strongarmed?

strongman w/e

[petapan]

because they were blocked last night

[petapan]

idk like do you think they were holding it to use last night specifically

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

meh hm not sure he takes this angle as scum

[petapan]

so like there's no actual cop in the setup so why is there a miller

it didn't occur to me until last night but bulletproof can easily be a scum role with the vengeful in the game

[petapan]

i don't know what you're expecting to happen with a no elim

[petapan]

no way

unbelievable

[petapan]

VOTE: xyzzy

[petapan]

i should say i forgot my own reasoning for GI town but the fact is hebi's claim was very obviously botched and a terrible idea, and if he were scum with her he would have told her not to do it and claim something better. the fact it was such a bad claim points to a disinvested/inactive scum team who weren't paying attention

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

meh hm not sure he takes this angle as scum

bru You said this like many times today

yeah i do

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

[petapan]

i think there's weirdness between penguin and xyzzy and the last scum is probably between them

everyone else i think is just town

aureal's claim is more specific than i'd expect for someone returning to the site after a very long hiatus
greyice wasn't scum with hebi ever
kokichi reads like bored town and not scum

that is what i think

[petapan]

i stole kokichi's vote because i was annoyed with him slowrolling all of yesterday

[petapan]

so who is scum to everyone? if you could only pick one?

penguin probably

[petapan]

i think the claim is hardest to believe because 1-shot doc is rather weak and has odd overlap with aureal's role

scum fakeclaim is likely to be either too simplistic or too elaborate

but it's kind of a crapshoot

[petapan]

makes me more annoyed that kokichi did absolutely nothing yesterday

[petapan]

i'm fine with going through with this

i don't think it makes a significant difference either way but /shrug

[petapan]

vote: court martial

[petapan]

lol i missed the end of the game

gg glad i didn't panic too much

nice to get the easy solve on a replace in once in a while