Open 876 - Fire and Ice - Postgame

[Aureal]

Elder Dragons— this might take a couple rounds. Stay strong.

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Aureal]

I am ICE MAFIA!

VOTE: Aureal

Why you talking about dragons? Are you fire scum?

Well I was going to gripe more about how scumsided the setup is and hate myself for signing up but I saw the dragon picture and got distracted.

And since I'm at work and can't readily get a screenshot from Dragonstorm I went for the least effort option and just quoted a line.

Nice claim though. Who's your icy champion?

[Aureal]

My favourite part of this setup is that I can just claim Doctor and the scumteams don't know whether to kill me or not

I am the only one with the credentials to do so.

Hmmm. Are you sure? What if there's a silent Doctor in furtive's name? Like furtdoctoriveglance, y'know?

VOTE: Oclax

Let's just 1v1 and make it easier on both of us.

I approve of this strategy. Not because you two are going to come after me otherwise. Noooooo not at aaaaaaaaall.

[Aureal]

Great point, let's just cut to the chase shall we
VOTE: Aureal

Thanks for proving me correct!

I kid guys, I kid.

UNVOTE: drew Bear

What's with all the unvotes?

[Aureal]

anyway i'm 2-shot weak vig

What a

weak

claim.



Thank you, I'll be here all night.

[Aureal]

Okay, so... People want to wagon Dragon for his vote, but people also want to wagon the people who want to wagon Dragon, but people also want to wagon the people who want to wagon the people who want to wagon Dragon? Am I clear on where we stand?

@_@

In that case I guess my vote can stay where it is cuz clearly that's going to be the next cool little wagon.



Meanwhile, Mala didn't even answer the question that started all this nonsense.

[Aureal]

I was thinking more of Python at that step than bianco. People are definitely trying to wagon Python. And furtive is apparently after Bulge, who is after Python? I'm reading in spurts from work, but I think that's what going on!

[Aureal]

I think it's the other way around, Oclax is voting Python for main-account hunting whereas Bulge is voting Python for perceived poor use of meta. And furtiveglance voted Bulge for the "unexplained" vote but I think Bulge had already given explanation in previous posts. So yes I do see it all as kind of linked, though probably not in a "furtive is scum voting Bulge because he's partnered with Python" way if that's what you think I'm saying. And I'm not sure what you mean by middle ring?

[Aureal]

I think there's some level of gimmick involved.

And that's why I'm a little wary of Dragon. The vote thing actually feels like awkward RVS stuff which I guess he's known for, but combined with the Ice Mafia opening post, it feels worse. Because if my account was named icedragon and I rolled ice here, I'd find it absolutely hilarious to just come out and say so.

[Aureal]

Well yes, he said he was using the ice account for the game with ice. It's related!

I'm a little wary of Python's vote too since I kind of expected like a page of setup spec from them more than hopping on a wagon. But I totally expect meta research like this. I'm just surprised they waited until now to do it, I already knew the accounts were linked from those posts (as if it wasn't obvious from the name).

[Aureal]

I disagree. I was thinking how hard it would be to win with four Mafia but then I came up with a cool mech plan to win the game.

First, we vote out a Mafia.
Then, the Fire and Ice Mafia shoot a member of the other team.
Then we vote out the last Mafia.

See? We

could

actually win in just a couple of rounds!

[Aureal]

Oh lord I asked for that, didn't I?

I just wanted people to have hope that scum would shoot each other.

[Aureal]

But...but...I like her

Oh no, is this the new buddying me strategy?

Can't we just stick her on Nameless-translator duty instead?

... I guess not.

Black, ol' buddybuddybuddynosubliminalmessageherebuddybuddy, how could you suggest such a thing? Is Kokichi right about you?

[Aureal]

I think it's the other way around, Oclax is voting Python for main-account hunting whereas Bulge is voting Python for perceived poor use of meta. And furtiveglance voted Bulge for the "unexplained" vote but I think Bulge had already given explanation in previous posts. So yes I do see it all as kind of linked, though probably not in a "furtive is scum voting Bulge because he's partnered with Python" way if that's what you think I'm saying. And I'm not sure what you mean by middle ring?

Are you on about 80? I don't think that really explains a vote on Python. As for 'seeing it as linked', in what way?

Between that, 91, and 96 I think he gave a decent bit of reasoning for an early vote.

And like geez, do I really have to explain every little thing that I find silly? All that stuff happened because of the previous stuff and I felt like recapping in a tongue in cheek manner in case I was misunderstanding something from skimming. There's even a really stupid in joke in the phrasing that nobody but me will get, too.

I don't like having to explain my dumb humor.

[Aureal]

No. Tell me, both of you, why it and others should.

Talking points. Gauging how people respond to pressure. Y'know all that good stuff

I didn't think you would want to join us. You seem to holster your vote like it's going to blow someone's face off if you use it

Votes? Wagons? VCA? You want it, it's yours my friend!
VOTE: Black

I think this one is town.

[Aureal]

So... You disagree with Black's point about scum wanting to hunt the other scum today? But think that thinking that way is more likely townie than not?

[Aureal]

IDK I liked his snarky comment about food scumtell, I thought about saying something like that too.

I'll have to think about stuff sometime later when I'm not legally intoxicated from sedatives in my system. XD

[Aureal]

Flipping scum and being scum aren't the same, lol.

But why do you think she's scum? "Acting weird" isn't much to go on. You can't even have that much experience with her if you don't even know she's the Scum Queen of the Newbie Queue. XD

[Aureal]

I don't know where Black's statement there about you being wrong comes from. And I disagree that Death Note was like this- and you had to scumhunt- you didn't know who one scum was but they were allied to you, not opposed. Strategy on dealing with that was totally up to you. Were you actually trying to scumhunt your partner?

Basically I'm mega confused why this is even an argument. Kokichi and Black barely have any meta (one game is a poor basis for good meta even though it's something people do all the time) even if one does accept that this game is just like DN and Kokichi was trying to read her there.

Pedit: above @Kokichi ofc, I see her explanation about that being a joke but not sure I buy it, that line doesn't make sense as a joke if she's town though the cat pics line totally is

[Aureal]

I guess that's plausible for Death Note, yeah. I couldn't remember his opinion on you there without going back to read some of his ISO. He did eventually express a townread, though he barely talked about it.

[Aureal]

I'm not calling you a liar.

Actually I guess since you responded right away explaining that you didn't even remember Kokichi's opinion, it's pretty believable...

Kokichi is tunneling on a gut read and using confirmation bias to make stuff seem scummy that isn't

I don't like it at all

I don't like most anything Kokichi does. XD

[Aureal]

It's not a great theory and almost impossible to prove, but it's a thought I had when thinking about who scum might be on my wagon and why they would want me limmed over meta

if you're town, and that's a big if, this is exceptionally narrow thinking. why would you restrict yourself to scumhunting people who are in your wagon AND wanting to exec you over meta? there's nothing objectively wrong or intrinsically AI about either of those things so you're almost completely pulverizing any chance you have of getting anything substantial right out of the gate

That's one of those things that's easy to criticize as suboptimal but actually feels nai to kind of towny to me. Expecting town to play optimally is expecting far too much. What's actually going to happen in a lot of cases is people are going to focus on what they know most about- themselves, and thus the wagon on them. Who is better qualified to talk about you than yourself?

Also, your argument is taking Black's words and putting meaning into them that just isn't there. Black expressing a theory about why scum might want to wagon her is not in any way "restricting" herself to scumhunting people in her wagon. This actually feels really similiar to an annoying argument I had when I was getting wagoned in another game and talked about it being natural to scumhunt in the wagon and someone then tried to accuse me of hypocrisy for not scumhunting him as someone on the wagon...

In other words, I think you're unfairly painting Black into a corner here. I don't like this wagon anymore- this reasoning is particularly suspect and I worry that Black is kinda getting the same treatment I got when setting foot outside the Newbie Queue- people jumping around going "omgscum!" just based on feels. I've been on the receiving end of many a bad wagon like that.

[Aureal]

Mmh, this one isn't too super sure how it feels about this wagon as a whole. Might just head over to the Drew wagon since materializing and calling for others to join a bianco wagon still leaves a bad taste in its mouth.

I thought, and still do think, that Bianco has a high probability of being scum. You can disagree with me on that read, but why wouldn't I want a wagon on a scum read?

Can you atleast elaborate on why bianco feels scummy to you?

Going after someone they know can be elim bait, very wifomy and shallow defense when I questioned it, then discrediting my questions to you as dumb and crazy when Black was the one to bring up the questions(specifically her insistence that you take forever to vote).

I generally default to town reading Bianco right off the bat, but this Bianco is different.

Hmmm. You've played a lot with bianco, then? I'm kind of surprised. What do you think of bianco's turn against Black?

[Aureal]

Oh, forgot to do this.

VOTE: python

i strongly dislike ur reason of “this person might be an alt of X”

quit main hunting.

this is a bad post for reasons that shall remain obscured until someone explicitly asks me about them

*explicitly asks about them*

Hmmm. You've played a lot with bianco, then? I'm kind of surprised. What do you think of bianco's turn against Black?

Is weak reasoning(again), seems a bit of wagon hopping as well.

Yeah, there's something kind of fuzzy about the logic and I'm not quite putting my finger on it right now. That vote and Python's willingness to sheep Kokichi's meta read after remembering the one game we played with Black had her as mafia are both sticking out to me as particularly fishy. Not really feeling the furtive vote that much anymore, though it'd be nice if he'd do a little more, so how about a VOTE: usesPython.

[Aureal]

i _almost want_ to find a reason to townread black on the basis of town who legitimately got tilted and fucking gave up

I didn't get tilted or give up, and tbh I don't really care if you tr me

You do seem to care since you have responded trying to defend yourself.

Also, I have caught scum purely based off meta I have had with that person. Again, seems like you are upset that you are caught for reasons that you don't like.

You know, honestly I think this might be a good summation of why I don't think Black is Mafia here. I think she's confident and good enough as that alignment to not show irritation at getting scumread like this.

[Aureal]

Elaborate on the fishyness

-A

Hmmm. Well for one, I don't recall you trying to use other people's opinions on meta before. And I'm not clear whether you're actually reading DN to try to figure out whether Kokichi's assessment is valid. Are you just skimming ISOs there?

But I guess the thing that's making me most twitchy is the way it sets Kokichi up as a fall guy if his read is wrong. Yes it's his idea to flip him next if he's wrong but it's not protown to encourage that. My last two games had situations like that where I got into a "one of us is town and one is scum" showdown (HI ENCHANT) except we actually were all town.

[Aureal]

This one is going to hit up Black's ISO in DN shortly because ok yeah a bit of an actual scumread is starting to form, but we'll see.

Okay first big red flag on Black (or black flag, it guesses) is that none of her DN solving effort really seems to be present. Maybe that's just a consequence of how DN's setup was, but... This setup is kinda similar in it's extra emphasis on day-time analysis to find scum since there's no investigatives, which even

DN

had one!

a how-to guide for confirmation bias

Confirmation bias is townie though, isn't it?

[Aureal]

Bulge when's the last time you played multiball?

-A

Cause like it's pretty blatantly obvious you're still scumhunting like it's regular mafia without ever reconsidering why the tells you're using worked there in the first place.

Ah crap, we're supposed to have tells that

work

?

my position is that your math is a waste of time and a distraction from actually doing anything useful, and also that no limming is a stupid idea

Great cool you think this, how about you actually run it to the logical conclusion. It's +EV for everyone but the groupscum being limmed to lim scum, the only scum motivation to "waste time and distract from actually doing anything useful" is if it stops groupscum being limmed. How about you actually go back to those posts and see the only person being pushed then was Drew who's wagon I immediately got on after the posts and get out of your shit tunnel

-A

Well, this is more like the Python I remember.

This is probably not a productive way to engage, even if I think you might actually have a bit of a point.

Unless you're gonna friendly neighbor Bulge tonight, anyway.

[Aureal]

Bulge is very likely scum, I'm gonna move back.

VOTE: The Bulge

This is just how you're going to play now, isn't it?

[Aureal]

Mala's kinda just existing this game

-A

furtive and icedragon and aureal as well

'scuse me, why are you lumping me in with the people who have both far fewer posts than me and far less content in them? Or is this just your handwaved way of talking about people who aren't currently getting voted? I mean, you didn't include bianco in there and I've definitely got more posts than her.

[Aureal]

This one still doesn't like Drew and his bianco wagon but it's gripes now are mostly about how he went about starting it and discussing it because he didn't really bring up WHY he did until 432, a good long while after actually starting the wagon which seems counter-intuitive when starting a wagon. Though it also doesn't think it necessarily agrees with his reasoning for it either, but, eh..

I don't think it's necessarily scummy to start a wagon and withhold the reasoning. It can be but a lot of times people will do this to interpret the reaction. Showing all your cards (ie: your reason for doing it) can impact the reaction so I can see town reasons for withholding the information

Not sure if that's the case with Drew here but the action itself isn't that bad imo

I'm confused by this conversation. As was mentioned, Drew laid out his thoughts on bianco being scum pretty early on. Unless you think there's further reasoning beyond the Dragon vote. I mean, he actually balked when he thought I was saying that he was looking to wagon bianco. So I'm not sure what that means, is that why you think he was withholding reasoning?

[Aureal]

Pre Edit: Open wolfing is my play style lol

Can anyone that has played with Drew confirm this?

I, uh,

may

have accused Drew of open wolfing in our last game. >_>

It wasn't a very comparable situation though. IDK what furtive was seeing- Drew is being a lot more engaged and scumhunty so far here than I expect. Since the first time I played with him, really, the Furtiveglance Wiki Incident.

[Aureal]

Pre Edit: Open wolfing is my play style lol

If this is the case then Drew not mentioning Bulge and Bulge not mentioning Drew until now looks really bad

-A

I also haven't mentioned you until now, or Furtive, or Koki, and barely Aureal. In fact, most of my game here has been Bianco and HPE, with a bit of Black and osuka in there as well. Are they all my scum buddies? Are you?

I only talked about Bulge because you(or someone here today) asked me about them. There wasn't much for me to say that wasn't already said, and I repeated. The mech speak post they made was an 'oh ya there was one thing now that you reminded me' sort of thing.

You are attaching me to the Bulge for them not really discussing me, and puts me in a spot where they is no way to defend against that.

Furtive and Aureal are barely playing with how little they've posted, Kokichi was the one pushing the Black wagon so kinda understandable to give them a pass, and yeah it's also weird you haven't mentioned us considering half the thread has just been us getting into arguments with people

-A

Okay seriously, WTF. Bulge I'm not familiar with but I expect more checking of your facts from

you

. I had over three times as many posts as furtive had (and still more now since I'm doing a long day's work worth of catch-up now) and it's clear our ISOs aren't even close to comparable. He hadn't managed more than three sentences in a post! I'm wrecking his sentence record with just this modest post!

[Aureal]

Also, I am totally cult, I will consider everyone besides python to recruit tonight.

Not a serpent-taming cult, then? What kind of lame cult is this?

[Aureal]

Okay seriously, WTF. Bulge I'm not familiar with but I expect more checking of your facts from

you

. I had over three times as many posts as furtive had (and still more now since I'm doing a long day's work worth of catch-up now) and it's clear our ISOs aren't even close to comparable. He hadn't managed more than three sentences in a post! I'm wrecking his sentence record with just this modest post!

Drew how did you know to wagon Aureal so fast

You're doing the same thing Black was doing in Newbie 2111 where you're just kinda...

there

? Like you're posting but it's not really going anywhere?

-A

Not really going anywhere? Not sure what you mean- I remember in that game you accused Black of not being first on any reads and I totally was first reading the post where HPE voted Black as HPE being town. Which a bunch of people, including you I believe, then sheeped.

Oh, and there didn't really seem to be a lot of resistance to the Black wagon for a while there. Then I decided I didn't like it, and now somehow it's not really a thing whereas

your

wagon is. Hmm.

[Aureal]

In case 333 didn't make it clear, we're reading through the entire game instead of ISOing. Also I kinda tr Kokichi so I'd be actively against a Kokichi flip if Black flipped town.

-A

Okay, sooooo... if you're doing a proper read of the game, why'd you ask how the Kokichi wagon formed? I'd think you'd have started by reading the setup, which would make it clear that no such thing need have existed!

[Aureal]

This case makes no sense unless Bulge is scum. Unless I'm missing something, this should be reason to lim The Bulge before Drew instead of the other way around

Drew thinks Bulge is town though, so him immediately jumping to defend himself and discredit the Bulge/Drew connection instead of just defending his townread creates a contradiction. I think it's just Bulge/Drew here but on the off chance we're wrong Drew has a higher chance of flipping scum than Bulge so that's where I want to go first.

-Nameless/A

Can I just say that I don't get this at all?

Like, that snarky comment about interacting with furt is totally something I would say. It's just a snarky comment because the situation seems obviously ridiculous. And I kind of agree, from what I understand of what this so-called Drew/Bulge case is supposed to be. Did we do a deep-dive of everyone's iso to see who they haven't interacted with? I bet Mala hasn't interacted with half of the game! Trying to go "oooh, they haven't interacted thus scumteam!" two days in to a game makes no sense to me. A few game days, okay, try to go back and look for those, but real-life game days? Really?

[Aureal]

Mala's kinda just existing this game

-A

furtive and icedragon and aureal as well

'scuse me, why are you lumping me in with the people who have both far fewer posts than me and far less content in them? Or is this just your handwaved way of talking about people who aren't currently getting voted? I mean, you didn't include bianco in there and I've definitely got more posts than her.

extremely peculiar thing to get defensive about

1) I try my best to contribute so it stings when people accuse me of not doing so.
2) I think that statement is pretty clearly wrong* and could be a way of throwing shade to justify a wagon at some point.
3) I have quite recently BEEN mislimmed, by some people in this game, on that sort of grounds. After I went to a great deal of effort to point out exactly how an actual mafia was using that sort of argument as a distraction to avoid having to produce content of their own.


* like post count is a totally objective measure and ours weren't even in the same ballpark, but if we're going the "what can I remember about this person" route I think people like you and Oclax would also pretty well fit into the "uh... IDK, lemme go check the ISO" category

[Aureal]

Shrugging your shoulders and going "welp nothing I can do about it" instead of actively fighting against consensus to keep your tr's alive is not townie behaviour

-A

Over-broad statement. In this case, you might have a point, since it's early in the game and there's not even that much of a wagon to fight against. I hate that you phrased it that way though- I've definitely had times where I couldn't do much but watch a TR get limmed and there's no reason not to say as much.

[Aureal]

Also we need to be limming the same groupscum today and tomorrow, can the people doing individual scumhunting start looking into what partners make sense with their scumreads and focus on solving for pairs?

-A

No.

(I've really gotta stop responding to everything of yours that makes me twitch or I'll be here catching up all night...)

I actually think a python/Kokichi team makes a lot of sense if I'm solving for pairs

I don't wanna agree with this because then I might actually be doing something like solving for pairs, and I just told Python no. But I will dub this as the Most Frustrating Scumteam Possible.

[Aureal]

Pretty sure also that Black was defending you, furtive...

Missing the point

It's more like you're not making your point clear enough. What about me talking about you did you not like?

And yeah I realize this gives me fishy associatives with furtive if he is scum here but I feel like this information can be useful in determining his alignment

Scum don't know how to treat their non-buddies in multiball...lol

Black's worried I'm the other scumteam

This is pretty clear? It's basically the same thing Python has against Drew, scum!you is putting a guard just in case we end up flipping furtive and is otherscum

I don't understand this argument. Nobody knows the alignment of anyone else here except for the two scumteams knowing their partner's alignment. Mafia don't know that everyone who's not on their team is town like could be expected in a normal game. Therefore they may well put up their guard in case they're wrong about a townread, because they literally are trying to read everyone else. That would make them just like town, who don't know anyone's alignment, therefore need to be guarded against everyone.

You're acting like it's not normal for town to be wary that their townreads could be wrong though.

And I'm not even really sure any of this is applicable here because I don't think Black is even townreading furtive, I think she didn't word that quite right because the argument is that furtive's behavior is NOT useful in determining his alignment (to be mafia). It's NAI (and I agree with that, I remember Turf Wars, lol.)

[Aureal]

Just wanting a lim and not really caring who it is seems so wild to me

First time playing with Enchant?

[Aureal]

I think the point they were making is that there are many people here who 'appear' to not be contributing(not saying you aren't). And the way I see it Python seems to pick and choose who they call out for certain things.

I think we're all gonna 'appear' to not be contributing with the way Python is flooding the zone. I know that's how they play but... yikes. I hate having to play catch-up like I'm doing because I can't keep up with the mile-a-minute way the game's been rolling while I'm at work; and I hate even more that I think at least half my responses are to Python. x_x

Also I totally pictured you snapping your fingers as you said 'scuse me' lol

Sadly, I have no special powers when I snap my fingers. XD

[Aureal]

Well I'd say Enchant but I know THAT'S useless here, lol.

Obviously we need more from Malakittens, hope she feels better soon. I haven't really actually played with her yet but pressure might be needed there eventually to get more, from what I can tell.

No idea what's going on with furtive other than this is how he plays now. Doesn't seem like it'd be hard to replicate as scum even though we saw it as town.

I... really can't remember much of note from Oc other than hating on Python for main-hunting. And apparently getting stoned? I thought they're back from VLA now but they only popped in to mention furtive's play, so hm.

...this really is the Python/Drew/Bulge/Black game, isn't it? XD

You're posting a lot more than usual, are you bored house-sitting?

[Aureal]

I don't think Black is an easy read, whatever Kokichi may say. I think Python mentioned that she had the same vibes so far in their DN read as she had in her scum games.

[Aureal]

Getting a lim through requires more than just repeating "X is scum!" and then ignoring everyone's attempts to get you to expand on that

^^^^
Obvious fact that is somehow not obvious to a surprising amount of people.

[Aureal]

Aureal and Black, can you walk us through why you're on our wagon instead of Bulge/Drew?

-A

I townlean Bulge and that's where the wagon is. Drew I dunno about but it seems beside the point with where things are. You seem to have answered your own question a bit later regarding voting you.

And I'm not even going to try to respond to your wall post from mobile, yikes.

[Aureal]

Cmon yall

The choice is clear

Thanks. That's helpful.

[Aureal]

Uh, even if I said yes, and that is not what I am saying yet, why try to swap Bianco's vote for mine? She made it clear she's not voting Drew here so even if everyone else went back that's still no more votes.

[Aureal]

Unironically why?

Skill issue.

Do you think I'm lying about my inability to see wtf you're going on about with this Drew/Bulge association?

I disagree because there's a subtle difference that'll show up in behaviour: town are worried about being wrong but don't mind associatives as much, scum are worried about associatives but don't mind being wrong as much

Mm. I... suppose that could make sense. I think. Isn't... being wrong about someone... an associative? Or being right. Or not having an opinion. Or basically everything...


Ooooooh, guys, I just had a thought. What if Kokichi is scum railing against Black on supposed meta grounds and basically nothing else so that later on he can say "hey if I was scum I'd obviously have nightkilled Black because I clearly thought she was on the other team"?

[Aureal]

Python/Bulge scumteam? Oh my, even I'm not that paranoid.


I think.

[Aureal]

UNVOTE:

Definitely not time to end day one.

[Aureal]

*sighs at changing pages actually eating mostly written phone-post*

I don't think I'm metaing you, Python? I mean, you were town in that game we played together. I did read a bit of your scum game too. I don't think I can really tell the difference. Any comment I might have made on you being different is pretty much just tongue in cheek commentary like I tend to make when playing with people I've had notable interactions with before.

I really kinda hate that Mala vote. I've been giving her a pass since she's sick but if she's not too sick to E-1 someone with no reason with like half the deadline left while she knows Enchant can hammer I guess she can get a VOTE: Malakittens for now.

[Aureal]

Jeebus Christ, is it not safe to vote

anywhere

without the day coming in imminent danger of ending???

I go off to work on my taxes for a few hours and come back to... this. Geez guys, remember there's a doc out there, no sudden hammers please!

I'm going off again for a while so I'm going to just UNVOTE: for now 'cause I can't trust any of you to not be hasty and I don't even know what the vote count is anymore with all that movement.

[Aureal]

It's late and I'm tired and will have to think about these events more but this Mala/Black dynamic is fascinating.

And I'd love if furtive could finally totally explain his prior worldview and forget about whatever 'zeitgeist of right now' is stopping him.

[Aureal]

That was the best post in the entire game so far

Bulge is locktown

I have literally never seen you play like this

I don't think I've ever played like this

I should be allowed to if everyone else is

Black is locktown.

[Aureal]

Anyway, I'm glad to see furtiveglance actually responded with something. Not much, but something. I think I actually see what he means about Python, though I didn't find his case on Bulge convincing at all. What do you think about Bulge's latest post 1180, furtive?

Pedit: hi nice timing

Aureal, who are you scumreading?

I'm getting a little confused. Mala now my biggest scumread but not sure that's a good vote here because just so hard to find connections with her lack of activity. Still not sold on you, Python is definitely trying something but I'm not sure what, Kokichi and Enchant are totally useless ofc, Drew's a little off, Oclax has been oddly quiet, and bianco is raising my eyebrow again with the let's hurry up and kill someone stuff.

[Aureal]

Oh also furtive, you're not into the Drew/Bulge associative thing? I thought you were up until you said Drew was getting townier.

[Aureal]

That was the best post in the entire game so far

Bulge is locktown

I have literally never seen you play like this

I don't think I've ever played like this

I should be allowed to if everyone else is

Black is locktown.

Black is locktown

I was gonna make a joke about you being locktown for locktowning me but in all seriousness I think there's a chance you're scum this game

Before you ask why. It's mostly vibes. And vibes that I can't really put a finger on. I've tried, but I can't figure it out, which is why I haven't mentioned it yet

Where are the usual town vibes I normally get from you?

I have usual town vibes? Oh man, can you give that memo to the people here that think otherwise?

Seriously though, the game we played before was rather an outlier in how townread I was. I wish I could replicate it at will, would've saved several games from turning into town getting roflstomped after I was mislimmed day one.

[Aureal]

Also, were you two this spammy that game? I don't remember it being like this.

[Aureal]

Here a flash wagon, there a flash wagon , everywhere a flash wagon... @_@

I get the visceral need to get rid of Kokichi, more than you know. But same thing with Mala, who's his partner other than Not Black?

[Aureal]

Here a flash wagon, there a flash wagon , everywhere a flash wagon... @_@

I get the visceral need to get rid of Kokichi, more than you know. But same thing with Mala, who's his partner other than Not Black?

Python

Oh yeah you did suggest that earlier. Hmmm. It's something. Basically all Kokichi talks about is you and that could be intentional scum behavior.

I don't like the manipulative self-voting here either. I guess it's clear he's not the doctor from it though.

E-1

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

[Aureal]

Aureal, did you finally roll scum?

No, I'm just exhausted.

I mean, darn it Black, did you lose the keys to our secret Mafia lair already?

Well, at least I finally have something of an answer of my own to my question. Which I sadly note nobody but you tried to answer.

[Aureal]

I mean that about being exhausted in more than one way. I'm getting tired of this phase too and don't think I'm going to be able to do much to refine my reads the way things are right now.

Did you notice Enchant's post just a little before my vote? I did, and thought it was very interesting. What did you think about it?

[Aureal]

And yes, it's kinda obvious that you think something is off when you just ask out of the blue if I rolled scum.

I do actually sheep somewhat on occasion, if I feel someone is trustworthy enough or I just don't quite know where to go and the direction agrees with my inclinations. Like in our previous game I pretty much just sheeped Python on day two after they friendly neighbored me, I just had to not be too obvious about it. So yeah, given the circumstances I felt like a little bit of a gambit sheeping your vote could be worthwhile.

Pedit:

Did you notice Enchant's post just a little before my vote? I did, and thought it was very interesting. What did you think about it?

Their vote on Not Sure? That was referencing Koki saying scum is "Black and not sure"...what's so interesting about it?

And why are you deflecting? I wanna talk more about you being scum

I thought it was interesting because there was a wagon being formed and Enchant just popped up out of nowhere with an "I'm here" post, with the wagon at E-2. It almost felt like it was a warning to people not to vote it.

[Aureal]

Like in our previous game I pretty much just sheeped Python on day two after they friendly neighbored me

I think it's a little different there no? You knew python was town. You don't know if I'm town

Was your post about me being locktown truthful or in jest?

I don't

know

if you're town, but I have been townreading you for the most part. "Locktown" is an overstatement of course (I'm not Andante ) but I am finding myself agreeing with a lot of what you're doing, broken up by occasional bouts of 'huh I wonder where the heck that came from'. But there's no way we can be on the same page 100% of the time ofc, not with the way you're moving things along. Which is itself towny.

Do you think Koki is scum? If so then why?

Re: Enchant - I see what you're implying. Enchant not hammering when he could have feels bad. I'm still not sure how I feel about you trying to point me in a different direction though

Uh, it's not a different direction? You were clearly having an issue with my vote, so I offered insight into part of the reasoning for it, and wondered if you noticed the same thing. I wouldn't be voting Kokichi if I didn't think there was a decent chance he flips scum. I've complained of his refusal to engage with basically anything but tunnelling you- that's easy enough behavior for scum who don't want to be linked to a partner so I can't just give it a pass. I noted a thought earlier that maybe he was doing it as cover because he doesn't expect you to actually get voted out over it and he can use your continued existence as proof that he's not scum because clearly he'd nightkill you if he was scum. And the "oh just kill me" self-voting... same thing, really. It's not protown behavior to vote yourself when there's a wagon on you. It's manipulative, trying to get people to stop voting him because "womg must be tilted town." When I came back, in my first game I made an RVS self-vote with a "ha ha, look I'm so suspicious because I'm claiming to be a newbie but I joined in 2005" joke and I got crap about it from not one but two people because self-voting is baaaaaaad, and that was literally my first post with obviously no wagon.

And then there was the Enchant thing to boot. Yeah, I feel comfortable with my vote here.

[Aureal]

Ugh guys, come on. I didn't want to poke back at Black's reasoning too much because I was afraid of this and I don't have a lot of time and energy to argue. At work and shouldn't really even be looking here rn but she's probably just town stuck on that one game we played where I somehow was the most widely townread player.

[Aureal]

I can't with this game

When I flip town, at least look at Aureal and bianco

Enchant, do your magic

This is a bit sus from bianco whatever Black flips

Agreed.

I feel like no one is even saying why they sus me? It's literally just the same people jumping from wagon to wagon with barely any reason or logic. No shot all these wagon hoppers are town

Bit of a compromise wagon

My preference would be The Bulge but it isn't happening

I could potentially do Kokichi, but I wasn't around when they were E-1. I thought all the defeatist stuff looked scum.

I'll UNVOTE: for now.

This post, though. Why the defeatist attitude on your preferred wagon? It was looking reasonably viable until people went into flash wagon mode. Why not try actually making your case on Bulge? I asked you before and you quoted like two half-assed posts of his that obviously weren't supposed to be substantial and dismissed his towny effort for it or something. It wasn't convincing at all. You said you were moving last weekend and should be able to give more after, and I'm still waiting on that.

[Aureal]

Ugh guys, come on. I didn't want to poke back at Black's reasoning too much because I was afraid of this and I don't have a lot of time and energy to argue. At work and shouldn't really even be looking here rn but she's probably just town stuck on that one game we played where I somehow was the most widely townread player.

I've read so many of your games Aureal. I'm kind of a big fan

I'm not seeing the same meticulousness here as I see in every other game you play. I hope you at least understand where I'm coming from with this read even if I may be wrong

I don't know how to feel about that first line other than maybe wonder about your sanity. You must

really

be bored to go around reading my nonsense.

I do understand where you're coming from, that's why I'm trying not to get into an argument about it right now while there's bloodthirsty mobs roving. I've been really low on time and energy in recent days and feel like I'm desperately clawing at the tail bumper of this game trying to keep up. Hopefully in a few days I'll be in better shape.

I think I want to vote Bianco today but there's no shot 6 other people agree with me here

You never know until you try, I guess!

VOTE: biancospino

[Aureal]

This is why I hate voice commands. Mala, please rest and get well.

[Aureal]

They're teasing you Drew, they're already voting bianco.

[Aureal]

VOTE: enchant

Bro was a fucking scummy entrance

VOTE: Enchant

grim: i dislike enchant's entrance

Uhhhh. Why? What do you expect from Enchant?

[Aureal]

no because i think enchant's reaction isn't a townie reaction and i want it dead for that exact reason.

Took long to process, why so long to vote then?

Unless you waited to see if someone else vote me for this?

Dear lord, why is Enchant actually making sense? What is the world coming to? I don't understand almost anything Oclax is saying or doing here. Like, it was a joke because now Enchant doesn't have to care about maybe hammering the doc. Why are we trying to read deeper into it?

[Aureal]

VOTE: The Bulge

I'm hoping people will consider this with fresh eyes today.

So... are you just going to sit there and stare at us with big anime eyes and hope we somehow absorb your case on Bulge that you can't actually state?

[Aureal]

im just here for a good time

Wow, you are definitely not Python.

i havent read enough of day 1 to formulate an opinion on that pairing tbh, probably dont plan to either cause too much effort

I want to be frustrated by this attitude. But then I think about how day one actually went and am like 'ehhhhh that might actually not be too bad a point'. :/

but you're currently a townlean for me from day 2 content alone

There's day 2 content? I think we're on the second page of it?

VOTE: Aureal

Still haven't caught up but I want to vote here rn

I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say about me when you're ready!

agree

Me too. Does this mean you're feeling better?

[Aureal]

Oy guys. Are we still in flashwagon mode? While Mala's certainly up there around the top of my suspects list too, she claims to have been sick for a good bit of the game. Especially after her end of day posts, I want to hear more from her about that, where her thoughts were, if she can. I don't want to risk flipping another townie just because she's not thinking clearly while sick. Do you guys think she's lying about being sick?

[Aureal]

Like, in particular, I'd really like to hear how Mala apparently decided there was scum between bianco and Black, struggled to get out a bianco vote while apparently hopped up on NyQuil or something, and now we get no info on any of that, just a weird vote on Enchant for a very Enchant-like post. Maybe Mala wants us to forget all that but... it's a little hard to forget.

Kokichi, do you still think Mala and Black are on opposing scum teams? I'm struggling to make sense of this dynamic. If Mala is scum, why go back and forth on Black from sheeping to scumreading like she did, say there's got to be scum between her and bianco, then totally drop that thought after bianco flips town? It's too chaotic.

[Aureal]

Okay, but no thoughts on Black anymore? You said before that you wanted to look into her and bianco, and bianco flipped town. Was that thought already gone by the time you voted bianco?

You came into the day voting Enchant like none of that ever happened, so I think you need to explain why Black dropped off your scumreads again because Oclax is the only other one who felt

that

case against Enchant. And not enough to not be voting you here. I think you're right about Black being town, but I also think you may very well be scum realizing you're going down sooner rather than later and trying to paint a bad association with her so she goes down next. So please maybe try to actually make your defense of her, if that's not what you're doing?

[Aureal]

Well. That was not the stirring defense of Black I was hoping for, Mala. It's okay though, I figured out who your partner actually is.

[Black, Malakittens] + [The Bulge, Kokichi Oma]

How about it

[The Bulge, Malakittens] + [Enchant, Kokichi Oma]

How about it

[Aureal]

Aww, you didn't want to see if she'll self-hammer rather than let us discuss her partner?

[Aureal]

Interesting how you decided that point was right after I started getting somewhere with pushing back against your narrative about Black being Mala's partner.

[Aureal]

Sooooooooooooooo.

Best case scenario: we flip a mafia today and the two teams finally decide to shoot each other tonight, putting us in a 3:1 F4 with the last one.
Not so good case scenario: we flip a mafia today and the teams whiff their kill targeting the same person, giving us a tiny bit of breathing room to keep flipping mafia at 3:2:1 where we have to flip from the 2 and hope the 1:1 shoot each other.
Pretty bad case scenario: we flip a mafia today and one from the other team gets shot in the night along with town, or we flip a town and scum cross-kill; putting us in a 2:1:1 F4 where the only correct option is to no-eliminate and hope this time the mafia shoot each other.
Even worse case scenario: we flip a townie today and the teams whiff their kill, putting us at 2:2:2 and my brain is melting because this totally depends on the pattern of scum kills to win?
Worst case scenarios: everything else?

On the plus side, we have a better than random chance of flipping a mafia today seeing as they outnumber us now.

NOT THAT I'M SUGGESTING WE GRAB A RANDOM PERSON AND WAGON THEM TO DEATH WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT IT



you know maybe we don't even want to flip someone today, I probably should've considered that before thinking about all this but too late now it's bedtime

[Aureal]

Can you give me the tl;dr on why Bulge is scum? I haven't looked into his iso but I have TR'ed him pretty much all game

Also you're sure yessiree is scum now even though you thought python was town? What has been so bad about their posting?

The second line is what I wanted to say. The first line I can answer because I've already asked it. "No I can't."

Unless he feels like trying harder for you because you're now somehow his top townread.

[Aureal]

black let me ask you a question, what's ur step 2 after you get the game solve

play hope mafia and hope the teams cross kill each other like Aureal?

ninja'd

My step 2 is to try and lim scum and see what happens afterwards

It's funny because I thought about it some more and realized that if we get to 2:1:1 we can actually still win if we eliminate town, but not if we eliminate scum.

What even is this game.

[Aureal]

Anyway I still want to hear more from Black about me! I've been expectantly awaiting this talk and all I've gotten so far is "just feels like Aureal is scum" and that makes me sad.

[Aureal]

Anyway I still want to hear more from Black about me! I've been expectantly awaiting this talk and all I've gotten so far is "just feels like Aureal is scum" and that makes me sad.

Sorry, my priorities are elsewhere atm. I haven't even gotten the chance to dive into your ISO to confirm my meta read. Well I probably did have the chance but I didn't take it. Anyway, I have the day off tomorrow so I plan on spending some time on stuff I've been putting off. I'll try to solidify my read here but I still think I'm right about you

I understand, it's the same for me ofc. This hasn't been the priority. This is a game I signed up for against my better judgment just because I saw the people involved and couldn't help it. This is the biggest, most active game (on day one) that I've been a part of and I've been quite busy with long workdays and little free time so I was barely hanging in there keeping up with it. I've been running more on gut here, and obviously that's not working out well. I'm not too happy with how I've played either. But it feels pretty bad for you to pop up, see I've got two LOL Y NOT votes on me, and decide to keep on this track as if an "oh but don't flash wagon" aside is going to do anything to stop that. It's time for us to dig down and reassess, but it feels like maybe you've just given up.

Also, I've said it before in other places, but I feel like trying to meta me is just not going to work well. I play the game I've got. Plenty of people have tried to scumread me off of meta, pointing at some other game and talking about how different I feel from that town game. My games are not the same, so I don't think I act that much the same, within certain parameters. If you think differently, please let me know why, I like feedback about myself.

VOTE: The Bulge

I want to be right on a scum this game.

If other scum want to help vote scum, feel free.

I want to be right too! I wish wanting was enough to make it so.

I'm kinda partway there on this one. I was somewhat townreading him but mostly from tone. I did skim his ISO when looking into Mala though, and saw a lot of defense of her there which I took to support them being partners. I guess it could be buddying though.

I'll have more time to review things and try to come up with a direction soon, because I'm pretty lost now.

[Aureal]

VOTE: No lim

Hey guys look pacifist ending

*cranks up Hopes and Dreams*

Not too bad a thought, but it still relies on scum cross-kills though, like any path to victory. Best case two tonight to put us at 3:1:1, then flip both correctly twice in a row. Or no-elim again and hope they shoot each other more, lol. Doesn't really feel like it'd work better than flipping scum today though my brain is too sluggish to want to dig into all the possibilities, since getting a scum today increases the odds that the remaining members shoot each other, then we'd just need to take out the last tomorrow if so.

[Aureal]

to explain the yessiree must die thing: i dont think yessiree has done anything substantial to make us reconsider python being scum.

i think black is just scum on gut alone + koichi’s reads, since i think koichi was killed for reads since there’s little reason to actually kill that slot otherwise imo.

Pretty much on board with the first line, the second line I have to think about more. I kinda get lost in nightkill WIFOM so I don't really care much about that, but Black is starting to ping me with some of this stuff she's saying and that distresses me. Demanding someone towncase themself? Say what? Don't people usually get called scummy for pointing out how towny they are because they're self-conscious about how people see them?


I don't wanna dig into Black's huuuuge ISO though.

Maybe I'll start with a smaller one. >_>

[Aureal]

Yay for furtive's ISO being nice and small. Smaller than Mala's somehow.

Conclusion: furtive could be scum but not with Bulge. Been after Bulge the whole game. Repeatedly moves off to help other wagons but always comes back to Bulge. Notable read flips on day three include Black going from scummy enough to put at E-1 to highest townread, and Python/yessiree slot dropping from town to scum. Little to no reasoning given for read flips which is obviously scummy. Seems a bit more brazen than a Black/furtive team would likely play? Other partner options (Oclax/Enchant/yessiree) more likely.

[Aureal]

Well, I really don't wanna go through the Black and Python ISOs but I think browsing the smaller ones has given me a better sense for the likelihood of pairings.

Code: Select all

furtive/yessiree
furtive/Oclax
furtive/Enchant
-furtive/Black
---furtive/Bulge

++Bulge/Black
--Bulge/yessiree
+Bulge/Oclax
+Bulge/Enchant

yessiree/Black
--yessiree/Oclax
+yessiree/Enchant

Oclax/Black
Oclax/Enchant

+Enchant/Black

So yeah, I think Bulge is a good vote here.

I've gone through the entire Undertale soundtrack and am now back at Hopes and Dreams. I'll take that as a sign to VOTE: The Bulge. E-1

[Aureal]

Yeah, I guess everyone here is kinda tired.

Or stoned, apparently.

[Aureal]

BTW I didn't really check your ISO but from others I did get reminded of the conversation on page 14, and it made me sad.

[Aureal]

What are you talking about? I wanted to talk about me. You didn't.

We're apparently going no lim so, fast night, everyone?

[Aureal]

SNO CONES FOR EVERYONE!

[Aureal]

Yeah, thanks for modding Alianna!

Fwiw I was not burned out (though I did get kinda outspammed day one and didn't quite get a firm handle on gamestate, that was not a lie), I was just Mafia using that prevailing feeling to my advantage. It's probably pretty clear from the PT that I was feeling pretty chill and enjoying the ride (apart from the heated back and forths earlier on).

Congrats to Aureal, who finally rolled scum. And you actually won! Well played!! <3

RIP townstreak. Onward with the undefeated Mafia streak!

Congrats to Aureal, who finally rolled scum. And you actually won! Well played!! <3

This also means I now have just cause to tunnel her every game from now on.

Like you don't already.

wow no congrats to her partner huh? Boohoo

But actually I did not expect to replace into a scum slot, I fully townread python before deciding to replace in

This game was a wild ride

Congrats! XD