Open 898: Don't Fall In The Volcano! | Game Over!

[DragonEater70]

I just wanna say that Aureal is a freaking QUEEN for making this game

I mean my role is a freaking gladiator!

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Black
VOTE: Titus

Too many queens this game, we should cull them now before they take over the world

[DragonEater70]

Whoops, now my vote is on someone else than Black

VOTE: Black

[DragonEater70]

Dannflor please be town this game, I have trauma from our last newbie.

[DragonEater70]

de70 town

VOTE: klick hi

Thank you, I was beginning to feel ignored

[DragonEater70]

de70 town

VOTE: klick hi

Thank you, I was beginning to feel ignored

Were you expecting me to respond to anything in particular?

I was expecting Black to respond tbh

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: black

scum

I would sheep you but I'm already voting her

[DragonEater70]

I'd also hate to fade you page 2, but you might consider the fact that at least two people are seriously scumreading you and respond to that

[DragonEater70]

Klick is town btw

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: skygazer

I would ask for more votes on Black but uh... We're at the maximum allowance for page 2.

I wouldn't mind people spiritually voting her though

[DragonEater70]

I'd also hate to fade you page 2, but you might consider the fact that at least two people are seriously scumreading you and respond to that

What exactly are you doubting here?

[DragonEater70]

Neko town

Easy read and maybe a pocket.

[DragonEater70]

Fuck I feel bad bullying Black because I like her as a person, but at the same time I'm having so much fun aggressively tunneling her

[DragonEater70]

I don't think two people actually scumread me

If you do then what is your read based on?

Very good question

Unfortunately I have just been told I am waking up tomorrow at 5:30 AM, and it's pretty late right now as it is, so I'm going to do something really scummy and just go to sleep without answering, trusting that skygazer can handle the situation.

Also there's like a 40% chance I wake up at E-1 or something (because of how scummy this move is), but I would just enjoy that soo

Good night

[DragonEater70]

Sorry guys for making you wait

I've been in a funeral and I'm quite tired

I'll be typing up my scumread on Black in a second

I just wanna say though that I'm disappointed in all of you for only putting me at E-2. I thought we agreed that I should be at E-1?

[DragonEater70]

Black said she doubted I was "seriously scumreading her" on page 2. I think there's no reason to doubt it if you understand that by "seriously scumreading", I thought she had significantly higher chance than random (33-40% instead of the default 25%) to be scum, NOT that I was confident (60-80%) she was scum. Right now, though, I think there's at least 60% chance Black flips scum and I am probably not moving my vote away this day phase.

Let me explain how my read developed:

So the first thing that pinged me scum about Black was the fact that she ignored my RVS poke at her. This might sound silly to you, but experience shows that scum often has trouble reacting properly to "fluff posting" (if you want me to go into long winded examples, I will spoiler them at the bottom of this post). So this was a small ping that raised Black from 25% scum to 27% scum, I'd say.

The second thing that pinged me, and I thought I mindmelded on with skygazer (but it turns out he was scumreading it for an entirely different reason), was Black's attempt to sort of discredit Skygazer's TR on me (at least that's how I read post 26). The scum motivation behind it is obvious because scum don't like town finding each other, and this also ties into meta - I have previously played a game (Open 888) with scum!Black where she discredited reads a lot, so I know it is her playstyle as scum to discredit reads.

Then Black got to E-1, and instead of either defending herself, or trying to find out WHY Skygazer and I were scumreading her (which I feel is what a townie would do), she just posts 32 and 33, which are an attempt to discredit the wagon not by refuting the reasons to scumread her (which are actually valid reasons on both my and Skygazer's part), but by saying (correctly) that limming on page 2 is bad - though that has nothing to do with her alignment. This reads to me as Black knowing she has no way to legitimately defend herself (because she's scum), and so deciding to sort of guilt trip her voters out of voting her by saying it's too early to vote her (+ shading her voters).

This is the point I said I was seriously scumreading Black, and at that point I thought she had about 33-40% chance to flip scum (much higher than random but still less than half).

Since then the following developments occurred that reinforced my scumread on Black (mind you, I only read up to the end of page 3):

VOTE: skygazer

Black has no reason to scumread Sky here. This feels like an attempt to scare Sky off her.

I'd also hate to fade you page 2, but you might consider the fact that at least two people are seriously scumreading you and respond to that

This distinctly feels like scum!Black from Open 888 - in that game she also "didn't believe" that I was scumreading her.

UNVOTE: Black

Just because I don't want to bandwagon someone D1 without knowing much

Neko town

This feels like both (a) a very "safe" read for scum to make, and (b) a possible attempt to pocket Neko. I don't really see why town!Black would call Neko town for unvoting, because to me it's not that obvious at all than in a town!Black world Neko has to be town to unvote.

Post 46 - As with post 39 above, feels like scum!Black from 888.

UNVOTE:

If we assume that Black really did SR Skygazer here, I really don't see what made her unvote, especially right after claiming she doesn't believe we actually SR'd her (and especially after a post from Skygazer that I think town!Black would probably interpret as disingenuous, because I know I would). I think the scum motivation behind this is to try alleviate pressure off her, since by unvoting she is subtly giving the message of "let's end this conflict and look elsewhere" (which if you look at the next page, is exactly what Black managed to do).

Gut feeling that sky and Dragon are town

My Neko townread wasn't real. I actually think unvoting there could be somewhat LAMIST but I'm not sure if I expect from a newbie. I'm not familiar with ToS or any of those other social games at all so I don't know how high his skill level could be here

What's the town motivation for making an "unreal" read???


THEN, Skygazer explained his read on Black, and Black responded:

the reason i'm voting black is similar to the reason i'm TRing DE70. if no one else is getting it then i guess its possible black is town and just didnt catch the thing, idk

Sky are you talking about 13? I thought this was a townslip until I realized the sample PM's are in the setup post

Now THIS is a fake thought process. If Black thought 13 was a townslip and then realized it wasn't, she would have never posted 26. She would have mentioned something about her own thoughts.

(btw, JSYK, after I saw my role PM I actually went and checked to make sure that it was in the sample PMs before I posted 13, because I didn't want to accidentally confirm myself as town by claiming flavor in a game where flavor is not an intended part of the mechanics)

Spoiler: The thingies I said would be spoilered are here

For instance in one game I jokingly claimed mason on page 2, and said that it was a "serious claim". All the townies treated it as a joke, but one scum reacted with "why are you claiming mason right out the gate?" (too serious response). Or in another game I asked another player to obvtown, and the player said "I'm alreayd obvtowning". To me that sounded like a flippant town response (it was), but a scum player in that game said "it's a bad look that she is saying she's obvtowning when she isn't" (weird response to a "fluff" post).

I know these examples are not

the same

as not responding to an RVS poke, but they are supposed to get the point across that scum has difficulty responding in the same way that town respond, and to me not responding is different to how town!Black would respond, most likely.

[DragonEater70]

Sorry for wallpost, I kinda wanted to throw away a lot of the points but I think it's important that I give my entire thought process on Black so you get a full picture. Please read it, but if it's too long, I'll try to make a TLDR.

[DragonEater70]

Actually I'll just go ahead and make a TLDR right now (but would still appreciate if you read the wallpost)

I'm currently scumreading Black for these reasons, plus a few more (and I also have not read past the end of page 3):

1. When she got to E-1 on page 2 she made no effort to actually read the people on her wagon or engage with the scumreads, but instead threw a general shade and discredit about the act of putting her at E-1. I think this is because, as scum, Black didn't feel she had a "real" reason to defend herself so she used this as an excuse.

2. A lot of Black's posts on the first 3 pages ping me as very similar to Open 888, a game where she was scum (meta read).

3. I think saying "I also thought for a second that Dragon townslipped but actually it's in the sample PMs" is a fake thought process, and that Black would have not asked Skygazer "why is Dragon town" in 26 if she truly had that thought process.

[DragonEater70]

I can kinda see dragons points now, and why it was hard for him to just sum it up

UNVOTE: Dragon

Yep lol

[DragonEater70]

Reading now btw

[DragonEater70]

I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip

Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either

i felt like DE70's townslip was kind of obvious and i felt like the fact that you hadn't picked up on it was scum indicative. i didn't realize it was e1 but i wasnt too bothered by it either tbh.

I agree with Sky's take here.

I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip

Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either

i felt like DE70's townslip was kind of obvious and i felt like the fact that you hadn't picked up on it was scum indicative. i didn't realize it was e1 but i wasnt too bothered by it either tbh.

Why do you think scum are more likely to miss a townslip?

Because townslips by nature indicate some knowledge or lack of knowledge that only town have or don't have. Therefore scum are automatically less likely to notice them.

hmm maybe

48 is kinda weird

Hi, my name is DragonEater70. I like to make weird posts early so I can get to be a major early wagon. It's a hobby of mine.

VOTE: Dragon

I don't think it feels natural for him to have a "serious scumread" on me this early (35) and I don't like how he was unwilling to explain it. In the time it took him to write an unnecessarily long-winded 48 he could have at least summarized his read

Sky's read makes sense in hindsight, but Dragon's doesn't, and I find it unlikely that he scumread me for the same reasons as her

Weird thought to have after calling me town (presumably for scumreading her? I don't really know what else would make Black call me town in 53).

Also weird to say "Dragon's SR on me doesn't make sense" without hearing my reason first.

[DragonEater70]

Also there's like a 40% chance I wake up at E-1 or something (because of how scummy this move is), but I would just enjoy that soo

This line is throwing me off a little though. If Dragon is scum here then he's aware that this is a scummy move, so I feel like it would make sense for him to just say the read and then go to bed? As opposed to following through with the scummy move anyway. But the last part of "I would just enjoy that" reads a little like he's trying to act casual about being pushed which I think is more likely to come from scum

I'm a bit conflicted here

WOW is this black FAKING not knowing my town meta???

[DragonEater70]

I'd also hate to fade you page 2, but you might consider the fact that at least two people are seriously scumreading you and respond to that

Which two?

Me and Sky

[DragonEater70]

You included me in the group that could go either way which seems a bit unnatural

Huh?

[DragonEater70]

Black explain this statement please.

[DragonEater70]

That's fair. I guess what I'm getting at is it seems like the natural progression of having a strong feeling that Dragon is scum combined with not thinking we are partnered would be to think I'm probably town

Fishing for town reads?

I actually thought it was shade on Neko

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: klick

Black town

Vote your scum buddy with me Clap

This is very transparently Black's scum partner

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

If it was implied, what benefit does it give you to call it "a bit unnatural"?

[DragonEater70]

I would like to roll scum with black one day

LOL

[DragonEater70]

I would like to roll scum with black one day

Doesn't seem very fair to the town now does it

Rolling scum with you would be fun but I think hydra'ing with you would be even better

I don’t really like hydraing but maybe one day I’ll change my mind

Black town

I'm curious where this read comes from

Nice distancing, I'm apparently too good though cause I'm seeing right through it.

[DragonEater70]

DragonEater even more town

Read on Black?

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

If it was implied, what benefit does it give you to call it "a bit unnatural"?

If I understand it correctly, she was saying that it was unnatural I wouldn't consider her town if I considered you scum and I didn't think you two were scum partners

If I understand correctly, she was saying it's unnatural you aren't saying she's town even though you are implying she is. IDK though

[DragonEater70]

Yeah I still doubt that btw even with your clarification

Why?

I don't have trouble responding to fluff posting as scum

Proof?

You're reading this wrong. I was trying to sort sky with 26, not discredit her. I didn't think the townread made much sense and I wanted her to explain it

Maybe. I haven't seen any sorting from you since then, though.

If I didn't think either of you legitimately scumread me then it makes sense for me to not care about figuring out the reason behind it. I thought it was just pressure

Since when are votes "just pressure"? Especially when Sky explicitly called you scum and I explicitly said I would sheep him?

I didn't feel the need to defend myself because I didn't think the scumreads were very real

IF you actually didn't think that, OK. As I said above, it makes no sense to me that you would think the scumreads aren't real.

This isn't true. I thought it was scummy that sky decided to keep me at e-1 knowing that someone could just come in and random vote me without noticing how close I was to dying

Why wasn't it scummy for Klick or I not to unvote you then?

42 was a joke read. I didn't really townread Neko from that as I explained in subsequent posts

Why would you make a joke read there? I've never seen someone make a "joke read" in this way (I am not seeing I've never seen any joke reads, just not THIS way).

I had a theory floating around in my head that I don't really want to go into atm. I unvoted because I thought sky might be town

Kinda makes it hard to know if I should believe this or not if you don't explain the thought process.

To be funny

It wasn't even slightly funny.

This isn't true at all. I was expecting other players to realize it wasn't a townslip either, especially sky who is a veteran around here. I wanted sky to explain her townread. It wasn't until later that I realized it could probably be because she didn't understand 13 wasn't a townslip

Hmmm okay

VOTE: Claptastik

What changed your mind about me?

[DragonEater70]

Probably going to sleep now

Goodnight

[DragonEater70]

DragonEater even more town

Read on Black?

I'm not really swayed by your case on Black but regardless I think Black!scum is pretty plausible atp
She needs to start towning yesterday

VOTE: klick

Black town

Vote your scum buddy with me Clap

This is very transparently Black's scum partner

I'm not fully getting this

Do you think she's scum? If not, why the exclamation point? If yes, why do you disagree (?) with my case?

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

Yep

[DragonEater70]

I would like to roll scum with black one day

Doesn't seem very fair to the town now does it

Rolling scum with you would be fun but I think hydra'ing with you would be even better

I don’t really like hydraing but maybe one day I’ll change my mind

Black town

I'm curious where this read comes from

Nice distancing, I'm apparently too good though cause I'm seeing right through it.

I can't wait to see the pie on your face once I'm gone

If you are both town I will apologize postgame

And will also die of embarrassment before postgame

[DragonEater70]

I don't think putting someone to E-1 on page 2 and keeping her there is a good idea, because how easy it would be for a scum (or town) to "accidentally" place hammer and evading responsibility on Day 2. Now, if an actual quickhammer had occurred and the flip was scum, I would give massive towncred to the hammerer, but that is besides the point. I'm also not sure if Black was scum or not, because I can see myself reacting like that if I were to run up to E-1 right away, and I can see a scum player faking it as well.

I think the main engine behind the wagon was Sky and Dragon, and I see a strange but plausible town motivation and explanation from Sky's posts, hence my Dragon vote.

However, 154 is so cringey that I'm having trouble seeing scum Dragon writing it. If that is within his scum range, then bravo.

VOTE: Klick

Damn I'm offended

[DragonEater70]

Proof?

Here, here, and here. I've never heard the theory that scum have a hard time engaging with fluff posting

Maybe. I haven't seen any sorting from you since then, though.

Then you're either blinded by your tunnel or deliberately ignoring it. I've engaged with Neko and Clap in attempt to sort them

Since when are votes "just pressure"? Especially when Sky explicitly called you scum and I explicitly said I would sheep him?

Pressure votes are like the most common type of vote early in the game. I didn't think I had done anything scummy to warrant an actual scumread, and I still don't. Your case is pretty garbage tbh

Why wasn't it scummy for Klick or I not to unvote you then?

Now you're just moving the goalposts
Your original point was that I didn't have any reason to scumread sky, and that's incorrect. But to answer your question, I voted for sky at the exact same time you and Klick posted so I didn't really digest that neither of you unvoted

Why would you make a joke read there? I've never seen someone make a "joke read" in this way (I am not seeing I've never seen any joke reads, just not THIS way).

I was slightly relieved that Neko unvoted and I felt like calling him town for it, shrug

It wasn't even slightly funny.

I don't care if you think it's funny or not

What changed your mind about me?

You kinda just seem like tunneled town that is knee-deep in confirmation bias. You're reading my posts through a scum!Black lens so you think everything you're seeing is scummy. I feel like this is more likely to come from town

I'm too tired to read through this right now and expect to actually get anything out of it, but I promise I will read this later and I even promise to do so in good faith and without assuming you are scum while reading it.

[DragonEater70]

Morning Dragon!

Morning!

What timezone are you in btw?

[DragonEater70]

One thing Black - sorry if it sounded rude when I said your joke wasn't funny, what I meant to say is that it didn't sound like a joke to me

[DragonEater70]

EST; It's current 12:06 AM here lol

The wonders of having a 7 hour difference (it's 7 AM here)

[DragonEater70]

Sorry to hear that (also I have a feeling 90% of the users on this site often go to sleep past midnight).

Where do you stand with regard to reads? Do you think it's likelier me and Black are both town or that one of us is scum? What do you think about Dannflor and Klick?

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

why didn’t you vote klick

...I quite like this actually

Huh???

[DragonEater70]

Is there something I'm missing here? Why was Clap supposed to vote Klick?

[DragonEater70]

Honestly my feeling is that you and black are both town and its just you two being extra picky over each other; the E-1 on page 2 seemed very random, and I have a feeling would've been hammered without much info if I didn't Unvote. I think sky is also another case of aggressive townie, my gut feeling right now is saying that titus and maybe klick is scum; Dannflor doesn't really rub off as scum but i haven't had the chance to really interact with them to be fair

How is Titus scum? She very explictly said she cannot post in ANY of her games until Sunday (which is already Sunday for me but for her it's probably Sunday morning in 10 hours if I have my timezone correctly).

Is the post Black quoted the only reason ypu scumread Klick?

[DragonEater70]

Yeah okay

@Dann why Klick? You didn't give any reasoning

[DragonEater70]

Actually

VOTE: Dann

[DragonEater70]

If I was more certain of my gut feeling, I'd definitely place klick at e-1, but my gut can very easily be wrong

I see

I don't really like the Klick wagon at all, but I don't really care to explain why before Dann explains his own reasoning for starting it.

[DragonEater70]

Good luck

[DragonEater70]

RE: percentages - yes, of course.

What I meant is do you think Black has like, 30%, 50%, or 70% to be scum (as an example)?

RE exclam - okay makes sense, so you were basically mindmelding and wanted to point it out.

Last paragraph - sure. Then what do you scumread her for?

[DragonEater70]

I'm kinda convinced at least one of Black/Dann has to be scum here

And based on my vote I guess I am leaning more on Dann

But I'm still waiting for him to explain the vote on you before I conclude he's scum.

[DragonEater70]

Fake - I will explain my reasoning only after Dannflor explains his.

I don't think any of what you said is scum indicative for Klick, and I am kinda questioning why you are voting him and not Black/Dann based on the people you eliminated from the scum pool.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Black

[DragonEater70]

Klick please sheep

[DragonEater70]

The wonders of having a 7 hour difference (it's 7 AM here)

Where is 7 hours difference from EST in Europe? I'm traveling there next summer for the first time.

My location is actually outdated, as I am not currently in Europe :p

But Ukraine, Romania, Estonia etc. should all have 7 hour difference from EST.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

why didn’t you vote klick

...I quite like this actually

This reminds me of myself as town. I like having wagons on me as that generates the best information. Klick has a wagon, but he's not defensive, he's letting it get reads. Black OTOH has been hard defending all day.

Yeah Klick is my strongest TR, and with how Clap has been towning it up recently, they are a close second (Neko/Sky were previously tied for second place and are now tied for third place)

[DragonEater70]

Clap are you an alt? You speak like a pretty experienced player

[DragonEater70]

What is "game-running narrative"?

[DragonEater70]

Cool

Now let's NOT unvote unless there's an actual good reason to. Even if someone (Black/Dann/FG) comes along and says "Oh my gosh are you trying to lim Black on page 11? This is so anti tooooown"

Because I am pretty sure nobody is planning to hammer before she responds and claims etc etc and before Dann has a ten-post-long monoluge about why Black is town and Klick is scum (BTW if the monoluge is any less than half a page, I am telling you in advance I am not gonna buy into it)

[DragonEater70]

Black how about instead of admiring the coolness of the use of BBCode inside quotes, you give me a rundown of who do ypu actually TR right now and why? I'm specifically interested to know who you TR out of the people on your wagon.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah yeah good form and all

Pedit: @Neko

[DragonEater70]

Black how about instead of admiring the coolness of the use of BBCode inside quotes, you give me a rundown of who do ypu actually TR right now and why? I'm specifically interested to know who you TR out of the people on your wagon.

I thin you and Neko are the most likely to be town

I think there's one scum in Clap/Klick. Most likely Klick. Not sure if they are partnered but I'm worried about it. I'm not sure if partners would vote together like this

K

Now please explain why you TR me and Neko

I don't give a single damn about your Klick scumread tbh.

And we can talk about Clap later.

[DragonEater70]

Dragon why is Klick your top townread?

I am refusing to explain until I hear Dann's scum case of Klick, because I don't want to give scum!Dann an easy out from having to explain his read.

[DragonEater70]

1. Yes I am still salty

2. I think you are scum (unrelated to the saltiness) and I am going to make your life hard, intentionally, because I have let scum!you slip away from my sight in the past and I am NOT letting you slip again.

3. Okay I will have a look at your ISO. And also sorry for making you upset (I'm really weak to AtE)

[DragonEater70]

Okay I just had a look at your ISO and there's zero reasoning on your TR of Neko.

And I guess the TR of me is because I am "tunneled town"? Okay fair.

[DragonEater70]

Okay I'm done talking to you today Black

Let's talk tomorrow.

[DragonEater70]

Jesus fuck

Relax

[DragonEater70]

It's a fucking game

[DragonEater70]

It's a fucking game

Yeah and it's supposed to be fun, but instead I wake up to being put at e-1 based on yet another shitty scumcase on me, you joining the wagon and rallying others to join, and Klick's scummy vote

Ya'll are annoying af. Let me breathe

and I am going to make your life hard, intentionally

Like what the fuck is this? You don't want to sort me. You just want to be right about me so you can say "OoO I caught scum Black!!11!!"

I'M TOWN

I'm sorry that you are not having fun, Black. I really am.

I really don't enjoy being a dick to people, especially to people I like. I do think I have stayed within the boundaries of what's allowed in a game of Mafia, but if you think I did something that was inappropriate, rude, offensive or personal, please let me know so I can apologize and correct my behavior.

I am going to take a break from this site until tomorrow because I really don't enjoy toxic arguments.

Meanwhile, you win. I'm unvoting you.

UNVOTE: Black

[DragonEater70]

I'll probably read more in detail later, but right now I think Black is town - I have seen town!Black react this way before to pressure, but I haven't seen scum!Blacl act this way. Of course I could be wrong but whatever.

Klick is still town and the fact that Dann is not explaining his read on Klick means I am not going to explain my read on Klick either.

K bye for now

[DragonEater70]

I'll probably read more in detail later, but right now I think Black is town - I have seen town!Black react this way before to pressure, but I haven't seen scum!Blacl act this way. Of course I could be wrong but whatever.

Klick is still town and the fact that Dann is not explaining his read on Klick

just to spite me

means I am not going to explain my read on Klick either.

K bye for now

EBWOP

[DragonEater70]

Since people (FakeGod in the post Kawaii quoted) are apparently upset about the page 2 wagon still, I am going to say that I think if Black is town then that actually makes Sky a whole less towny in my eyes (my read on Sky was basically "null but unpartnered with Black") and probably the scummiest person on Black's wagon, over Klick.

However reading Kawaii's interaction with FakeGod, yikes. I am pretty sure Kawaii is scum.

VOTE: Kawaii

[DragonEater70]

On second thoughts msybe that's just Kawaii's playstyle, I think I maybe saw similar interactions from them as town before

UNVOTE:

I'll pass final judgment when I am caught up

[DragonEater70]

Interested in your read on Klick

I can definitely vote Dann today.

[DragonEater70]

Sorry Black btw

[DragonEater70]

Sorry Black btw

Honestly I don't think you did anything that would require you to apologize to me. You're just playing the game. I got a little irritated when you said you were salty about me not engaging with you because it's something Shea does to me a lot and I really hate feeling like I have to engage with someone or else they'll be mad at me. Then you said you didn't give a damn about my Klick read and that bothered me too. But I still don't think you crossed a line. I did however. So I'm sorry for calling you an asshole and being a little brat. I had a really bad day. I'll try to control myself moving forward

Okay

I wasn't actually mad at you for not engaging with me, it was mostly a joke, so sorry I gave that impression

And I accept your apology <3

[DragonEater70]

I agree Black's assessment of Kawaii, I also found it jarring

[DragonEater70]

Also for future reference - is saying "I don't give a damn" offensive? I am not a native English speaker and sometimes I give different weight to words than native speakers.

[DragonEater70]

Also for future reference - is saying "I don't give a damn" offensive? I am not a native English speaker and sometimes I give different weight to words than native speakers.

It gives off the vibe of a really abrasive and aggressive tone and some people don't respond well to that. It's not crossing a line but I had a visceral reaction to it

Okay, I will avoid using it in the future

[DragonEater70]

Yeah basically

[DragonEater70]

What is "game-running narrative"?

I like that you and Claptastik have voices and I want to add weight to them especially since I don't have particular feelings towards Black!town

Why do you want to add to voices who you do not agree with?

[DragonEater70]

So

There are like 4-5 sentences in Dann's ISO I like. Granted, his ISO has only 25 sentences (I counted), so maybe this doesn't mean much. Still, I think I usually find more to like in town!Dann's ISO.

OTOH the sentences I do like are pretty good sentences.

My verdict? Dann could be town. I am not going to townbin him just yet, but I am fine with not voting him right now.

I should probably have a look at FG and Kawaii now.

[DragonEater70]

Yes, unless you're gonna make a scumcase on Sky.

[DragonEater70]

I'll read into FakeGod and Kawaii after I finish work (ehich will be oretty late today), but just a question meanwhile:

Dann, since Klick and Black are apparently both town, who do you think leans scum other than Claptastik?

[DragonEater70]

Yes, unless you're gonna make a scumcase on Sky.

So, uh.. you think town Klick decided to leave Black, who is also town, at E-1 for reasons that help town?

May I ask what those reasons are?

You must understand that this series of events seem very cut-and-dry to me, and I am incredulous that you would defend Klick's behavior here.

I am incredulous that you are seriously pushing the narrative that not unvoting has any bearing on Klick's alignment.

Let me ask you a question: in the hypothetical universe where it is reasonable to expect town!Klick to unvote 100% of the time, what does scum!Klick gain from not unvoting?

[DragonEater70]

FG can you not ignore my question?

[DragonEater70]

Let me ask you a question: in the hypothetical universe where it is reasonable to expect town!Klick to unvote 100% of the time, what does scum!Klick gain from not unvoting?

Chance of a trigger happy town or his scum partner to place an "accidental" hammer and gaining a mis-execute.

In other words, a huge tempo swing for scum.

Hmmm

How often have you seen this actually happen?

The only time I've ever seen a page 3 hammer on this site was when a player self voted and dared anyone to hammer him, following which another player decided it was a good policy lim and hammered fully knowing it was a hammer.

[DragonEater70]

A lot of things "definitely could happen"

If you can show me one time scum intentionally eft a vote on an E-1 hoping for an accidental hammer (and not in games from 2004), I will be very surprised but will be willing to re-asses. Until then I'll assume this isn't a real scum strategy.

[DragonEater70]

A lot of things "definitely could happen"

If you can show me one time scum intentionally eft a vote on an E-1 hoping for an accidental hammer (and not in games from 2004), I will be very surprised but will be willing to re-asses. Until then I'll assume this isn't a real scum strategy.

I mean keep in mind as well I unvoted within 8 minutes or so; It's possible the other scum (dann in this case) wasn't online to hammer and claim its an accident

So you think if you hadn't unvoted and we kept Black at E-1 and Dann was online, he would've hammered Black and claimed it was an accident?

[DragonEater70]

Congrats Black!

[DragonEater70]

Wow

Lots of reads by people

I will interact later

[DragonEater70]

Meh

I promise I'll read everything that transpired since my fight with Black at SOME point, but I am not sure it will be today because like Black I also got a job recently and have less time for mafia during the day.

And I already have plans for this evening.

I am still anti-voting Klick and will continue to do so until I see a good case against him (which I haven't seen yet. 504 is a pretty NAI post).

Also if Klick is Dann's partner we should vote Dann.

[DragonEater70]

Maybe dragon is scum

Yuck

My inactivity is NAI bruh

[DragonEater70]

In very brief: I was vaguely aware that Black was at E-1. I didn't care that much about it. In the very early stages of the game I find that sort of stuff somewhat amusing. If people want to do crazy stuff early on, that's their prerogative. Ultimately there's stuff to read into that sort of play. The E-1 contributed to us progressing the thread in a healthy way.

tl;dr risk-averse play during RVS is for losers.

I've come back from work and this post caught my eye. I am saddened.

It seems yet again that I'm faced with the stark reality that there are some players who will draw town and do anti-town things.

I did not expect Klick to just straight up admit that what he did was antitown and he doesn't care.

I have no coherent response.

Maybe page 2 E-1 wagon was just bunch of townies doing stunts, and I am simply... risk-averse.

Wow it's almost like I told you it's NAI

RIP FakeGod's entire approach to the game I guess.

I will be reassessing the game under the assumption that there was no scum involvement in the page 2 E-1 wagon.

Those of you who still want to talk to me, I'll try my best to respond.

I wonder what they come up with.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Dann

[DragonEater70]

Do you think that Dann's read here comes from town? I can't see what thought process would lead him there.

[DragonEater70]

Also I'm not pushing the Dann/Klick narrative

I think you are town

I just saw Black pushing that narrative and I think Dann is likelier to flip scum than you

[DragonEater70]

Or maybe it was Neko

Idk

[DragonEater70]

Also I might be sick

I wasn't planning to catch up today but now I am planning even less.

[DragonEater70]

Do you think that Dann's read here comes from town? I can't see what thought process would lead him there.

you don't know what my thought process is

is your claim that i could never scum read you here as town

My claim is that you could never scumread me off that post

[DragonEater70]

Is it?

[DragonEater70]

I'll be honest I am not 100% sure how to read this game after my read on Black flipped

I am sure though that Klick is town.

[DragonEater70]

Kinda don't cause I'm annoyed with you not explaining your read

But if you insist I will.

[DragonEater70]

The original one?

[DragonEater70]

Lemmie check

[DragonEater70]

I don't know with Klick I like instantly felt that something was off about how he was posting

he did later say that he was trying to incorporate elements of poker or something into his gameplay which i thought maybe explained the difference and he was intentionally trying to play more reserved

but idk at this point i am leaning back towards klick mimicking his town game as opposed to actually being town.

This? Then I don't get what made you go "oh klick is town for *reasons*"

[DragonEater70]

Okay fine

My read on Klick is basically the read you had earlier - everything he did this game doesn't look very good optically and I don't think scum would play like that. For instance I am pretty sure that scum would feel compelled to react to the fact of two people strongly reading Black as scum on page 2 and outting her at E-1, because scum need to position themself. On further thought it *could* be a scum player with a more passive playstyle who prefers to wait and see how things develop before committing to a read, but Klick mentioned that he is VERY aware of how he is perceived as both alignments in Swinger's Hall - it doesn't make sense to me that he would make such a serious blunder as scum as looking non-commital and casually continuing the conversation with Neko while Black is being voted.

Other than this, I felt I was mibdmelding with his reads, or at least digging his thought process, with like 90% of his posts. He does NOT make over explainy posts but just puts his thoughts down casually, in an organic way, and the thoughts feel organic.

[DragonEater70]

i didn't explain forever mostly just because i was annoyed by your posting and wanted to annoy you back

i am very mature

Sounds like it

[DragonEater70]

UNVOTE: Dann[/un]

I think this feels like town!Dann from my experience.

[DragonEater70]

Amazing.

[DragonEater70]

do you have recent thoughts on claptastik

Unfortunately not

Probably tomorrow when I get to doing a proper catchup.

[DragonEater70]

UNVOTE: Dann[/un]

I think this feels like town!Dann from my experience.

To elaborate, scum!Dann is concerned about positioning a lot, which I am not seeing here at all. Also while I disagree with some of his thoughts, he does have a solvy energy that shines through.

[DragonEater70]

*Dann post*

What was your objective / thought process with this post? Were you trying to figure out Dann's alignment? Were you trying to case him? Or...?

[DragonEater70]

i keep coming back to how strange of a post 577 is

Yeah I'm not familiar with kawaii efforting this hard. It kinda feels like he's artificially trying to town it up

I want to look back over the couple of games we played together to make sure I'm not misremembering but I won't be able to do that until I get off work

Yeah I'm used to Kawaii asking short questions about reads and providing very little commentary.

But I can't say this change is for sure AI, it feels more like a fundamental change in playstyle

[DragonEater70]

Alright

Super catchup mode: ENGAGED

Estimated catchup time: 20-30 minutes.

Main objective: ability to answer Dann's question about my read of Clap.
Secondary objective: have a read on Sky and on Kawaii.

Starting catchup in 3... 2... 1!

[DragonEater70]

I think Black is more likely to be town right now. I dont have a lock read yet but im confident i can get a very confident read there given enough time

I have an extremely good record of reading Black and if people can find me as town it would be cool if people trusted that

I approve of Dann taking a hard stance. This is what Day 1 is all about, people. I'm willing to give a pass to Black on Dann's word.

I agree that Clap's taking more of a methodical, logical approach compared to Klick who is taking an organic, wishy-washy, softer approach. I think that's more of a stylistic difference and I don't think that necessarily points to Clap being scum.

This kinda has a LAMISTY performative tone to it, but it's possible it's just a relic of how MafiaScum was played in 2010.

Nah, that's not good enough. I want you to respond to my rebuttal of your case so I can tell if you're town pushing me for bad reasons or scum pushing me for bad reasons

I thought your rebuttal was weak. I think responding to weak scum arguments plays into the hands of scum. I'm fine letting everyone decide based on what's out there.

I agree which is why I also didn't really reply to most of Black's rebuttal back when I was scumreading her. I think this is probably town of Clap to think though.

Yeah Klick is my strongest TR, and with how Clap has been towning it up recently, they are a close second (Neko/Sky were previously tied for second place and are now tied for third place)

Agreed, you, klick and neko look pretty solidly town.

Why do you think Klick is town?

I explained that in 245 247 and 255. You're not reading for content, i.e. not really trying to sort people, or you would know this.

Nah I just overlooked them. Thanks for providing an answer tho

What do you think of the reasoning on klick in those posts? Do you think I'm scum with klick?

Probably not. I think it's more likely that there's one scum within you

What do you think of my reasoning on klick?

The repetition of the question is slightly +town

245 is ok. I disagree with 247 - I think it's much easier to stay calm and collected when being wagoned as scum as opposed to town.

Tangent but it's interesting how Black and I have an opposite take on this - I don't care about votes on me as town, but I do get stressed when I am wagoned as scum.

I'm watching you two play 5D chess while i'm playing checkers in this game

I don't think so. Black is either floundering scum or bad, over-defensive town. Without dannflor backing her she'd be in trouble.

As for dannflor, he appears to be the most annoying type of player there is - the old guard who thinks he's so damn good he doesn't need to explain himself. And sometimes those people are that good, but there's no way for newer people like you or me to know that.

Annoyingly, he really is that good. I have nominated him for best town player of the year award, so I may be a biiiit biased, but yeah he's good.

What if this game is actually just really easy

Kinda wonder what Klick had in mind when he wrote that

I think this argument is +town for both of you

Agreed

Honestly I don't know who to suspect at this point, but my feelings right now
Dragon Probably town, wants to eliminate black regardless of alignment
Dann feels scummy just because of how limited information he's sharing

Neutral: Clap, Sky, Klick, Fakegod, Black

I don't really know at this point, I'm just not trusting my gut because I am lost in this 5D chess game

These two posts feel like what newbscum might write to avoid engaging with game.

I think this argument is +town for both of you

I disagree, but if it is tvt, scum are just coasting, so it has to end for a while.

Yeah run along now

You really are making this game miserable. Hope you're proud of yourself.

This is probably a town post btw. It could be scum faking these emotions but I kinda doubt it

Why can't it be scum having a genuine emotion?

[DragonEater70]

Had you read anything at all before writing 411?

Skimming, definitely need to do in depth reading
Initially I'm seeing a lot of conflict, it's insane

So you skimmed before asking Klick about FakeGod? Did you feel like Fake was solving in the posts you read?

I felt what FakeGod was being reasonable, 188 made sense minus the Klick vote.
I saw 230 making sense initially but now I want elaboration why the poe specifically points to Klick.
I see the observations in 348 as good, sorting through playstyles vs. alignment.

I don't like this post and I don't like Kawaii's entrance

I'm not following the logic to voting Klick with town-reading Sky's reasoning and Dragon's post. Is voting Klick PoE? What's your scum case on Klick? If I missed it let me know

Because how short it was since game start, and because the mod's votecount on page 2 did not reflect a E-1 state, a scum player could plausibly place a hammer on Black and evade responsibility Day 2, essentially gaining a free mis-execute. Therefore, this action of holding the E-1 wagon on page 2 is scum-favored.

4 people created the E-1 wagon on page 2. Their names are Klick, NekoLover, DragonEater70, and Skygazer. They held it until Neko unvoted at his earliest convenience, so I would remove Neko from the scum pool. Skygazer is the one who put poor Black on E-1 to begin with, but it was because he thought he saw a scumslip. If I saw a scumslip, I would take the same action he did. Dragon put momentum on the wagon by being the 3rd vote on the wagon, and my initial suspect out of the group (hence my early vote). I admit I did like 154. It felt a little hare-brained to me, but it could at least stumble through it and see what Dragon was thinking.

This leaves Klick. He said his first vote was RVS vote. Despite seeing Black pushed into E-1, he conveniently sidestepped the issue in his 36. Seems like he wants the job done but he doesn't want to say so outright. This looks scummy to me.

I hope this explains my voting of Klick to you.

This, combined with the quote below, sounds like a probably real thought:

Spoiler:

In very brief: I was vaguely aware that Black was at E-1. I didn't care that much about it. In the very early stages of the game I find that sort of stuff somewhat amusing. If people want to do crazy stuff early on, that's their prerogative. Ultimately there's stuff to read into that sort of play. The E-1 contributed to us progressing the thread in a healthy way.

tl;dr risk-averse play during RVS is for losers.

I've come back from work and this post caught my eye. I am saddened.

It seems yet again that I'm faced with the stark reality that there are some players who will draw town and do anti-town things.

I did not expect Klick to just straight up admit that what he did was antitown and he doesn't care.

I have no coherent response.

Maybe page 2 E-1 wagon was just bunch of townies doing stunts, and I am simply... risk-averse.

Also UNVOTE: FakeGod
VOTE: Klick

After reading all that i'm more confident fakegod is town

Why'd you vote Klick there?

Spoiler: Kawaii post

I'm not following the logic to voting Klick with town-reading Sky's reasoning and Dragon's post. Is voting Klick PoE? What's your scum case on Klick? If I missed it let me know

Because how short it was since game start, and because the mod's votecount on page 2 did not reflect a E-1 state, a scum player could plausibly place a hammer on Black and evade responsibility Day 2, essentially gaining a free mis-execute. Therefore, this action of holding the E-1 wagon on page 2 is scum-favored.

4 people created the E-1 wagon on page 2. Their names are Klick, NekoLover, DragonEater70, and Skygazer. They held it until Neko unvoted at his earliest convenience, so I would remove Neko from the scum pool. Skygazer is the one who put poor Black on E-1 to begin with, but it was because he thought he saw a scumslip. If I saw a scumslip, I would take the same action he did. Dragon put momentum on the wagon by being the 3rd vote on the wagon, and my initial suspect out of the group (hence my early vote). I admit I did like 154. It felt a little hare-brained to me, but it could at least stumble through it and see what Dragon was thinking.

This leaves Klick. He said his first vote was RVS vote. Despite seeing Black pushed into E-1, he conveniently sidestepped the issue in his 36. Seems like he wants the job done but he doesn't want to say so outright. This looks scummy to me.

I hope this explains my voting of Klick to you.

Klick failing to unvote Black at E-1 is sai. Especially failing to in 36 since Klick says,

We put quite a bit of stake in the ability to sort alignment through behaviour,

Leaving Black at E-1 without sorting her alignment through behavior makes 0 sense to me, feels antithetical to what Klick said. This was the perfect time to unvote Black and Klick failed to. Klick may have failed to realize Black was at E-1. At best Klick didn't realize, at worst Klick was content with Black being eliminated page 2.
VOTE: Klick

This post by Kawaii is even worse in context

VOTE: Kawaii

Hmmm

How often have you seen this actually happen?

The only time I've ever seen a page 3 hammer on this site was when a player self voted and dared anyone to hammer him, following which another player decided it was a good policy lim and hammered fully knowing it was a hammer.

Micro 464 is a game I modded where I saw this happen.

Town Doctor was hammered on page 2.

Once 8-1/2 years ago is pretty underwhelming.

I agree with Clap but also holy shit that looks like a crazy game.

I'm still leaning towards klick/dann being scum

Why do you feel dann is scum with klick? Not explaining his klick read?

Not explaining his klick read, his weird interactions with klick; None of it feels really organic at all tbh

Instead of organic you feel it's theatrical? hope dann is delaying explaining his klick read, hope we know why soon.

Yea and if you look at their previous conversation under the light that DE7 shows (potential distancing) The shift in the way they converse after being called out for potentially distancing, with dann instead of suggesting klick could be scum, now is "klick is town but I'm keeping it to myself trust me bro" definitely feels extremely sus

Um what. When did I say Klick/Dann could be distancing???

sorry sorry

i guess i'd lean fakegod here because his townread on me felt off

I don't like this, feels like scum coasting

it's bugging me that black made no indication she knew about the gladiator thing until it was heavily hinted at, so maybe she is just scum here

I think Sky's mind is still here
because Sky actually cares about this
because Sky believes in the argument they were making
because Sky is town

Like I think scum!Sky moves on from this when they realise that no one cares about it at the same level they do
It's no longer relevant in the thread narrative

I do like this read though

it's bugging me that black made no indication she knew about the gladiator thing until it was heavily hinted at, so maybe she is just scum here

Why is this relevant? I wasn't here for this but what? Why does this mean Black may be scum?

Sky thought her townread on Dragon should have been obvious

I didn't think she thought he townslipped because I assumed she knew the sample PMs were in the first post

She thinks I scum slipped because I asked her why she townread Dragon

I-what? I don't get this entirely but it's making slight sense
Being excited at being gladiator = town (since gladiator = town)
Not knowing why being excited at being gladiator is town = scum

There's no way this is a genuine response to the quoted post.

VOTE: Dannflor

So did you vote Dannflor because he voted Kawaii, whom you have meta on but Dann doesn't?
Not accusing but just clarifying.

[DragonEater70]

Dann/Black is not the same as Dann/Klick though

[DragonEater70]

Spoiler: catchup post full of one-word responses

fakegod's townread on me also feels off idk

Why

i think there are some people on this playerlist who might be likely to follow me onto the wagon of my choosing

sure

VOTE: clap

Don't likey

I feel like the reads in this game have splintered all over the place over the last few pages. It feels unnatural and is probably caused at least in part by scum

What do you mean?

kawaii is just asking a lot of nothing questions and kind of commentating the game

i don't super feel they are invested in finding scum

They do that as town

I concur, I think it's playstyle

My source is this game

What is your read on Dannflor?

I lean town
His approach feels very naturally similar to this game
I like his progression on me and him using his weight to project a townread on you
It feels like he cares about that for town reasons and not scum-trying-to-get-townread reasons

It's not solid, he obviously understands optics well, but I think he's +town atm and don't want him gone today at all

Agreed

yeah 504 seemed off to me too, and i'm skeptical that klick townreads me here. the reasoning for the townread feels like a reach too

Who are you saying this to, and why do you think it's a reach?

I don't think I'd want to drop a flat townread on your slot if you're town and I were scum, frankly

Agreed

Meh

I promise I'll read everything that transpired since my fight with Black at SOME point, but I am not sure it will be today because like Black I also got a job recently and have less time for mafia during the day.

And I already have plans for this evening.

I am still anti-voting Klick and will continue to do so until I see a good case against him (which I haven't seen yet. 504 is a pretty NAI post).

Also if Klick is Dann's partner we should vote Dann.

Maybe dragon is scum

I don't see who Dragon is scum with in this scenario though
Like in a vacuum I can see why 579 looks scummy. But most variations of scum!Dragon should be pretty satisfied with the game narrative and not have a huge reason to draw attention peddling the Klick/Dann theory

If it were like Dragon/FakeGod, then I'm not sure why Dragon is putting pressure on us just as FakeGod has removed his vote on me. It's discordant
It's weird from a Dragon/Clap team as well

I could maaaaybe see Dragon/Kawaii coordinating in this way?

Funny post

Also I might be sick

I wasn't planning to catch up today but now I am planning even less.

Btw I was sick but am healthy now!

I like that Clap preemptively looked at both Dann's meta and my meta. He didn't try to flaunt that he did it but instead he brought it up when it was relevant or he was asked about a read. It makes me feel like he's trying to solve the game and I'm back to thinking he's probably town

Agreed. But when did you previously call him town?

Currently I have black, neko, de70, and you north of null

Why did your opinion of me change

First, some players I town read said this isn't your scum game.

Second, I did some meta and agree with your self assessment that you handle pressure better as scum.

Interestingly, I was doing meta on you and dann, and came across a scum game of yours where you replaced out, and dann took the slot. I thought that was pretty funny. But yeah, you were getting pressure, and you weren't freaking out.

Yeah this is a good post

do you have recent thoughts on claptastik

Yes. Very town.

Is the reason that you're skeptical I townread you related to me generally expressing that I find you hard to read in the past?

yea

Okay this is actually towny

i don't like 650

I agree

^ not really liking this post

Town that is aware they are tunneling typically tries to reverse that or reevaluate

"I'm a new player and I need to hold onto something for my sanity" sounds like a pretty convoluted excuse to stop solving

I agree

Per the wiki, back in your day scummy and anti-town were distinct things.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Scummy

I've read most of the wiki but unfortunately it's largely outdated.

Jesus christ I can't beat you on anything, can I?

I can't wait to wipe that smirk off your face when you see my flip.

Lol what makes you think I can get you limmed? The site BSDs are in charge, and they're unlikely to follow new guy's lead.

What's "BSDs"?

[DragonEater70]

Dann/Black is not the same as Dann/Klick though

OH my bad, For some reason my brain thought it was dann/klick

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[DragonEater70]

I read the last two pages quickly (it's like 2 AM here now)

I am locking Klick and Dann as town

GG EZ

Goodnight also

[DragonEater70]

Okay I expected Klick to die but am still sad

I am pretty sure that everyone on Kawaii's wagon is town, judging by the natural way it developed (there's like 5% chance Black is scum but am not pushing her today), so I think just quickfading the other 3 players wins the game.

What do you say, Dann?

[DragonEater70]

The only reason I suggest quickfading is I want this game over in 2023 so I can use it in scummy nominations (not saying for who just yet )

[DragonEater70]

sooooo we’re in autowin i believe

Oh okay Dann avrees with me

[DragonEater70]

Agrees

[DragonEater70]

Or maybe not considering his claim

So anyway let's kill Skygazer?

[DragonEater70]

I sorta figured that you had an ace in the hole to smash the hammer like that

Yep. The hammer without intent made me look a bit scummy, which was good as that decreased my chance of being NK'd. OTOH if Kawaii had flipped town and I got pushed, I knew I could claim. Also a claim isn't that bad in this setup, as I believe a tracker claim means there's a JK or a chance of a doc, so scum can't just kill the tracker risk free. Setup seems to be a little town-sided.

Just a comment on that (and also on FakeGod's complaint of "why was this approved as a newbie?"):

All 9 player setups seem "townsided" if scum flip Day 1, because almost any PR that can get an inno is totally busted when scum flipped Day 1. The thing is scum has like 25% chance by default to flip Day 1 (or maybe 33% if you take better than random reads into account), so you do need these PRs for town not to lost in the majority of the time. This setup actually is balanced.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Sky

[DragonEater70]

Wait so isn't scums best bet to not eliminate anyway to frame a jailed player?

VOTE: Neko

[DragonEater70]

It’s unfortunate but due to the setup scum’s best move was not to kill anyone last night.

Holy shit you are right

How did this setup pass as Newbie setup???

are they high?

Maybe because it wasn't meant to be played with experienced players that could eliminate the scum d1

Yeah this setup is very well balanced actually (although various sub-setups lean various ways), but it is notoriously difficult for scum if a mafia member dies D1. ESPECIALLY, if that mafia member is a role blocker

Also if the goon gets run up instead of the RB, they can force a CC of the cop/tracker and prevent town from getting any investigation results at all (due to roleblocker blocking them).

[DragonEater70]

Sorry Neko if you town

[DragonEater70]

GG either way and let's do a fast night please

[DragonEater70]

GG either way and let's do a fast night please

I think we fade this before Skygazer if Neko is town

Lowkey feels like Dragon knows the game isn't over with Neko's flip

LOL

You're the one who hammered Neko

[DragonEater70]

I thought Neko is town based on their reaction to the hammer

[DragonEater70]

Yeah Neko was pretty cool

[DragonEater70]

GG either way and let's do a fast night please

I think we fade this before Skygazer if Neko is town

Lowkey feels like Dragon knows the game isn't over with Neko's flip

LOL

You're the one who hammered Neko

What does that have to do with what I'm saying?

You asked for a fast night before Neko even said he was town

He implied he was

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Sky

Don't really want to think about the possibility of Black AtE'ing me out of a scumread as scum so I am just gonna pretend it doesn't exist

[DragonEater70]

That's hammer I believe

Like how do you come to the conclusion that Neko is town based on this post?

This is completely irrelevant since it's autowin, but basically I thought scum!Neko would just say GG

Also if you actually think scum!me would vote my roleblocker, go away from thread, come back to two more votes on my Roleblocker and say "GG EZ Dann and Klick lock town" instead of freaking out and trying to divert the wagon, ESPECIALLY after I just had a super annoying scum game where I accidentally bussed my partner and literally didn't play for Days 2 and 3 because I was frozen and had no WIM to play, then you are, with respect, a little bit delusional.

[DragonEater70]

Can we just quicklim Sky pls?

[DragonEater70]

If you think freaking out and trying to divert the kawaii wagon would be the optimal play for scum!you then you're a bit delusional yourself

I looked over Dragon's ISO overnight and I'm confident that we just win the game if we fade him. I'll go over the details when I get to my PC

I'm curious how you think that allowing town auto win is optimal play for scum

[DragonEater70]

Anyway I don't really care to post here until postgame, mathematically town has enough votes without me to kill both Sky and Black if needed (actually I guess if Back is scum and we lim sky and Dann jails me and Black kills him for some reason, then I guess I would be needed to hammer Black, which I will do.)

But yeah I see no point arguing about this stupid point when we won the game anyway

So bye for now, please quicklim Sky thanks

[DragonEater70]

gg

You see Black? That's how hammered scum reacts :p

Pretty proud of my correct Day 1 town core which proved useless due to mech but which I would 100% used to push neko/sky anyway

[DragonEater70]

Anyway yeah gg everyone, especially Aureal

Expect to see your name in the scummies thread soon