Open 901 - Normal Idea Mafia Redux - Postgame

[Argonauts]

black, we meet again.
also, i'll just VOTE: roden
consider this not serious.
k, i'm going to regret this.
unless drew and aureal want it, i'm not going to crumb.
pls tell me if u want me to sign with my username instead.
c u, not a crumb.
~o
(pls, i hope i don't regret this.)

[Argonauts]

I hate it get rid of it VOTE: Mucho Man

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Did you or did you not put Cakes on L-7?

i don't remember doing that, where's your proof?

I really want to turbo yeet you into the sky, and gaze upon it from the hydra PT

But how can I choose to get rid of Super Nintendo Chalmers??

Nor will I stand by and let the Mucho Man collect votes

Therefore, there is only one clear vote......even in the darkness that surrounds us......there is one Queen who must meet an untimely demise

VOTE: Black

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

i'll believe it when i see it

it takes 8 to execute.
by voting cakez in rvs, u put him on e-7.
i.e. 7 more votes for an execution
~o

[Argonauts]

In the meantime I'll be boarding this boat to inspect the crew's PASSION

VOTE: Argonauts

We sold all our passionfruit at the last port, sorry. Would you like to join a waitlist for the next shipment?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

black, we meet again.
also, i'll just VOTE: roden
consider this not serious.
k, i'm going to regret this.
unless drew and aureal want it, i'm not going to crumb.
pls tell me if u want me to sign with my username instead.
c u, not a crumb.
~o
(pls, i hope i don't regret this.)

VOTE: argonauts
this post reads really overthought and self-conscious

Orpheus is a poet, how dare you impugn the fine arts like this.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I just feel Town has a substantially higher chance of acting entitled because there's no inherent noose dangling over their heads like there is for wolves + they don't feel the need to have a good image

That makes sense, but the last part I don't really agree with. I think certain players feel the need to seem townie when they are town. If people find me as town then I feel like I'm doing something right and the PoE is reduced for the people that townread me, which helps them narrow in on the baddies

I'm glad you said this because I was gonna cite you as an example of it

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

hey

hi std!!!
do u have any preliminary reads?
~o

[Argonauts]

Who is who in your hydra

i think i gave it away in my first post.
this is rh9.
~o
p-edit: i'd agree.

[Argonauts]

Who is who in your hydra

Orpheus (the poet)
Asclepius (the healer)
Atalanta (the awesome badass)

-do I really need to sign that one

[Argonauts]

I'm convinced

VOTE: SirCakez

I'm convinced by your being convinced

VOTE: SirCakez

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

this is rh9.

Yeah I wanna know who my boy drew is >:C

Dear Friend! I pray that the Gods have kept you away from the depths of Hades'
grasp.

I still feel a bit ashamed from our previous soiree, you see Dionysus has always had a grip on me and blessed me with some nectar of the vines and caused me to align myself with some less than divine individuals. Alas though, I have aligned myself with one fine gentleman with the gift of prose(Orpheus) and quite the sassy lady(Atalanta), both of whom are blessed by only the most divine Gods with a pure soul.

I hope this message finds you soon, since I am afraid I am wondering how pure your soul is right now, I understand that Hades can grip you easily and drag you to the hellfire......so you have to ease my ever concerned mind that this is just more of the nectar of the vines influencing me still

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

Unironically suspecting shaddowez

I agree. My man is afraid to be in the ring
VOTE: shaddowez

Not since I have witnessed Hercules battle the mighty centaur have a seen a more impressive grappler than Mucho Man, I hope you can enjoy your stay on our vessel.

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

this is rh9.

Yeah I wanna know who my boy drew is >:C

Dear Friend! I pray that the Gods have kept you away from the depths of Hades'
grasp.

I still feel a bit ashamed from our previous soiree, you see Dionysus has always had a grip on me and blessed me with some nectar of the vines and caused me to align myself with some less than divine individuals. Alas though, I have aligned myself with one fine gentleman with the gift of prose(Orpheus) and quite the sassy lady(Atalanta), both of whom are blessed by only the most divine Gods with a pure soul.

I hope this message finds you soon, since I am afraid I am wondering how pure your soul is right now, I understand that Hades can grip you easily and drag you to the hellfire......so you have to ease my ever concerned mind that this is just more of the nectar of the vines influencing me still

-Asclepius

This post put me in a sleepius

Oh dear, I fear all the extra muscle elixir's given to you from the disgraced god of grappling have not only enlarged your physical self to an alarming degree, but has affected your ability to stay in character and have fun.

Luckily I can prescribe to you something to ease your mind, but I have to know how pure your soul is as well

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

VOTE: Argonauts

Nuke this ASAP

Why?

May the mighty Zeus bless you NM, with this question that all of the land from the foothills of Mt Olympus to the gates of troy would love to know

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

this is rh9.

Yeah I wanna know who my boy drew is >:C

Dear Friend! I pray that the Gods have kept you away from the depths of Hades'
grasp.

I still feel a bit ashamed from our previous soiree, you see Dionysus has always had a grip on me and blessed me with some nectar of the vines and caused me to align myself with some less than divine individuals. Alas though, I have aligned myself with one fine gentleman with the gift of prose(Orpheus) and quite the sassy lady(Atalanta), both of whom are blessed by only the most divine Gods with a pure soul.

I hope this message finds you soon, since I am afraid I am wondering how pure your soul is right now, I understand that Hades can grip you easily and drag you to the hellfire......so you have to ease my ever concerned mind that this is just more of the nectar of the vines influencing me still

-Asclepius

Lmfaooo I wanted to write back in elegant roleplay but I fuckin' suck at it and don't know what to write, but I found my boy drew!!!

Ah my friend, any words that you post are elegant in their own way. I will just imagine that every sentence that you utter is spoken in a pig squeal that only the Guttural God William of the far land of Ramos can produce.

Unironically suspecting shaddowez

I agree. My man is afraid to be in the ring
VOTE: shaddowez

Unironically, I think SirCakez needs to be looked into more. Anybody play with them? Do they usually jump into the fire ASAP and do nothing else?

I do fear that the green one known as Cakez(what ruler anointed them as a Sir I do not know) does like to bide their time between activity, I would enjoy others to call their name though in hopes they are not deceiving us.

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

I do fear that the green one known as Cakez(what ruler anointed them as a Sir I do not know) does like to bide their time between activity, I would enjoy others to call their name though in hopes they are not deceiving us.

I see, do you know if he likes to jump right into the deep end when he's Town?

I am not used to the eagerness of the green one to jump into any fray this early, I am used to seeing them as a pure soul.......so the worries of Atalanta may be justified here

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

I'm a changed woman. I'm actively trying to explain things in detail more if people want me to.

Hu just layed something upon the floor, I feel as if I should pick it up

Hmmm, makes me feel she has changed a bit

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

I'm a changed woman. I'm actively trying to explain things in detail more if people want me to.

Hu just layed something upon the floor, I feel as if I should pick it up

Hmmm, makes me feel she has changed a bit

-Asclepius

What

Drew are you drunk

I'm glad I wasn't the only one confused at that lmfao

*breaks character*

Ffs.....I am picking up what you are putting down is a common phrase, one which I was stylizing a bit.

I am not even sure Hu fully understands what I am referring to, but I feel like she is being genuine in saying she is trying to change her style a bit

Maybe not AI, but not scummy

*back into character*

Oh dear, I had a premonition that someone that was a doctor such as me took over my posting.....I hope they were as kind

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

I feel like at least 64% of the words in this thread have been posted by Jackson.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

41 was a response to sky's confusion to what nm said.
i'm not sure why u find it strange.
~o

[Argonauts]

Oops should have already said this
I'm an ascetic miller LOL

Well OF COURSE you had to get that role, ugh

Orpheus's crumbing was only half-serious. We're backup miller

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

1.05

Votecount 1.05

Argonauts (3): SirCakez, Invisibility, Roden
SirCakez (2): Not_Mafia, Argonauts
Black (2): shaddowez, Save The Dragons
SirCakez (2): Skygazer, lucca261
Mucho Man Randy Passion (2): Black, JacksonVirgo
shaddowez (1): Mucho Man Randy Passion

Not Voting (2): Zebedee, Hu Tao

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to secure an execution or 7 votes to secure a no-execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-21 20:03:19).

...I was going to move our vote to another wagon and looked at the vote count.

Uh

I

thought

there was something off about us only being one of two votes on Cakez because I'd thought it was like the fifth on him when I placed it. I was going to ask earlier where the rest of you cowards had gone but got sidetracked.

You went to another line, apparently.

Anyway VOTE: shaddowez

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

@Mucho Lassy

What are your thoughts on Black? What about the fellows who go by the name of Argonaughts?

Oh a Wolf? Hopefully in name only

But oh dear, only two fellows and one sassy lady though are aboard this ship.......I will also send the the nearest Sophist to assist you with spelling, it will be my pleasure to make sure your intellect is in tip top shape

Also, is there an issue with Black? Despite her name I feel like her soul shines like the purest light

I don't mean to make light as well, but I fear Dionysus has given our dear mod a nectar of the vine or two

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

@Mucho Lassy

What are your thoughts on Black? What about the fellows who go by the name of Argonaughts?

Oh a Wolf? Hopefully in name only

But oh dear, only two fellows and one sassy lady though are aboard this ship.......I will also send the the nearest Sophist to assist you with spelling, it will be my pleasure to make sure your intellect is in tip top shape

Also, is there an issue with Black? Despite her name I feel like her soul shines like the purest light

I don't mean to make light as well, but I fear Dionysus has given our dear mod a nectar of the vine or two

-Asclepius

If you pocket me can I ride on the ship?

If there was a way I could beckon the God's for a space for you I would........but alas, this ship is 3 person only.

I sense some doubt in your soul though, perhaps this doctor is the one who may be pocketed......I must sleep on this and pray that Zeus guides me in the proper direction

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

My experience with Black is that she's usually super aggro, the chill vibes make me think "that's a pod person" but at the same time I don't really want to punish her for that with the threat of elimination

I think if she is town that she'll suddenly pounce on someone when we least expect it and start ripping out throats

Black is often low activity on the weekend, she already mentioned that. I'm sure she'll pick up in activity before long and then you may have more from her than you wanted.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I would like to slay the three-headed hydra for the crime of using their roleplay to obfuscate their reads and the identities of the heads. I don't mind prose in small doses, but I'm having too much trouble understanding what the fuck they're even saying and I can't keep track of who's saying what. Plus some of their posts are literally just roleplay filler and I can't just skim their posts to find out what's worth reading and what's just for fun.

You cannot be serious about not being able to tell the difference between our vastly different takes on posting.

Maybe I need to up my thus-far nearly nonexistent roleplay factor.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

i'm reading up rn.
~o

[Argonauts]

i'm busy today.
will post later, sorry.
~o

[Argonauts]

i'm busy today.
will post later, sorry.
~o

You made an Odyssey out of it, didn't you?

I fear he has become a victim of the sirens.

Black, my dear, this doesn't seem like you, usually you sink your teeth in a bit more than this. More an observation rather than a read, but is making me say hmmmm.

That being said, it does feel like the only think going on is the back and forth between Jackson and Lucca......I said to myself I need to look at a past Jackson scum game since I get pings of that.

Jake, I love your sense of humor......I want to say you are posting just to post, but I also am not too familiar with your style(and I enjoy a good shit poster so who am I to judge).

Also, dialing back the gimmick as you can tell, is tough to make an actual post with it.

That is until Dionysus has his grip one me again though

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

Skygazer is being prodded.

Aauuh-
A prod of Skygazer?

At this time of Year,
At this time of

Day,

In this part of the Country,

Localized

entirely within this thread?

I would love enjoying a finely steamed ham with you one day

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

I think I still want not_mafia today. He is different from when he was town last time I played with him,. Definitely more reads. and then when I said it, he said 316

Reads? Where? What posts do you see as Not_Mafia making reads?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I think I still want not_mafia today. He is different from when he was town last time I played with him,. Definitely more reads. and then when I said it, he said 316

Reads? Where? What posts do you see as Not_Mafia making reads?

-Atalanta

You don't think NM has been posting reads?

I looked at his ISO before asking that and didn't see anything that I could take as a serious read. What do you take as serious? The only somewhat plausibly serious content I saw was a couple of advice-type comments about voting.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I think I still want not_mafia today. He is different from when he was town last time I played with him,. Definitely more reads. and then when I said it, he said 316

Reads? Where? What posts do you see as Not_Mafia making reads?

-Atalanta

He's doing way more here than what he did as town when I was with him before. So that's why I assumed these were reads

That doesn't really answer the question - which posts? Yeah, he's posted more than he does some games, but it looks like all joking around to me.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

[...]
Jake, I love your sense of humor......I want to say you are posting just to post, but I also am not too familiar with your style(and I enjoy a good shit poster so who am I to judge).
[...]
-Asclepius

If you were trying to read me based off of previous performance, you would have had my head. This game is more atypical as I try playing Mafia again.

I am (mostly) posting just to post, as the group of people I want to talk with happen to be the same group of people who aren't here to talk. To ramble a bit; I'm waiting on some of the low-posters to pick up the slack and have some more thread presence. While I ~could~ try conversing with the high presence peeps, they already have a pretty firm grip on the game and have probably already answered any questions I would have in their posts.

I forgot just how

slooooooooow

this site's games can be.

You seem very restless

what does this mean reads-wise? or is it just a comment

A little bit of both. Town being restless makes more sense than scum imo.

I would disagree? When I am scum I want to the game to be cooking a bit more.....why would you say it is more town indicitave?

VOTE: Black

Like I get wanting to vote Black, but I do feel a town vibe from her posts even though she is being lazy lol.

But I think you are town to vote her.

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

I don't really like how he's positioning to push Lucca and I regardless of what shaddow flips but otherwise I'm getting town vibes there

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh

That's how I would describe the vibes of Jake.

But, I feel like he is kinda my spirit animal, and he is acting in a way I definitely would act as scum.......like he said he hasn't played in a bit, and if I came back to a scum slot I would want the game to be firing on all cylinders.

Yet I do realize I am putting how I would act, not everyone.......just can't shake that feeling for now though

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

more later maybe

For your awareness:

You are going to be my main push tommorrow should more not happen between now and then.

Why std?

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

Was she neut hunting? She mentioned it a few times, but it wasn't like, her passion project.

Who would make it super obvious? It's a common scum tell, her focus was finding the SK.

we really should be DOMINATING the third party REFEREE today

I do not see that post as making it her "focus" (especially because you cut the next words about finding mafia). Nor do I agree that thinking it could be best to take out the SK first is a scumtell. Especially when you're just coming out and saying it like that.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Nor do I agree that thinking it could be best to take out the SK first is a scumtell. Especially when you're just coming out and saying it like that.

How is it not? Is this a cultural difference? The only people who should care about taking out/focusing the SK are the mafia. Town should just be focusing on who is wolfy

Town can win with the SK?!?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Is there a reason you're being rude? Did I hit a nerve? Are you the SK?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

catching up again.
~o

[Argonauts]

catching up again.
~o

Come on, let's hear it

Hey should change his name to Sisyphus at this point.

You will just be stuck with me in the meantime heh

Sus

I don't think it is. Why would scum say that instead of just making up a reason?

Because if it's a bad reason they will be suspected for it.

Hu Tao more like Eww Tao this game.

You don't have your usual snappy personality here so far

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

It seems that lots of people are voting without reason. If someone can quote a post telling me why they are voting a certain way I may hop on board.

You may find it easier to accept that people have their reasons for why they're voting when they aren't expressed.

As for me, I'm voting Dragons to pressure them as they are low-activity. I would appreciate some extra support. [I may end up switching to Black/Shadez in a day if no one joins the dWagon.]

Strange that you would want to swap to me after saying earlier that I feel fine. What changed?

You wanna hop on Jake with me and threaten him with a swift trip across the river styx?

-Asclepius

Pre Edit: Who made this man a list mod? I demand a recount

[Argonauts]

Pre Edit: Who made this man a list mod? I demand a recount

this conspiracy goes all the way to the top

I will email Mith first thing in the morning.

VOTE: Argonauts

As much fun as it is to pressure Aureal when she is town, I can't have this happen when I cannot participate lol

Why not Jake though?

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

I think Jake is probably town

Why do you scumread him?

Like I said, posting just to post.

Their shit posting also feels a bit like filler(I know, pot meet kettle).

But I feel like even their 'substance' lack substance

And like with you, can't exactly keep their reads straight(which is tough for someone to do if not really caring what their reads are)

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

VOTE: Jake

Kinda talked myself into it when I put it all together lol

I don't don't need you Black, in fact look away from me so I don't run into stone

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

VOTE: Jake

Kinda talked myself into it when I put it all together lol

I don't don't need you Black, in fact look away from me so I don't run into stone

-Asclepius

*turn not run

[Argonauts]

He's been busy. And, uh, not a terribly active and talkative poster in general I think? I can ask him to not bother making "catching up" posts if you'd prefer? Did you have a specific question for him?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

We haven't really been doing much of any discussion in private, just so you know, if you're expecting us to be able to give you anything of what he would be thinking. Are two people not enough for you?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Oh right, was going to respond to this.

Just curious - I've seen this from you before, is it a standard opening you use to avoid giving information?

Straight into shading someone, gotta love it

Says the man throwing shade without a vote.

Since when did I need to place a vote to make a point

You don't need to, but it helps

This might be a read if you squint, or just advice.

Since when did I need to place a vote to make a point

What's the motivation for a townie who sees supposedly scummy activity, and isn't currently voting anyone, to NOT vote the scummy activity? OTOH, scum could want to point out the activity in hope that another townie picks up on it and starts a push.

Also, your point on my question is wrong. Even if she answers yes, that just means she's playing to her overall scum meta (town would want towniness to come through in RVS). It says nothing about this particular game. It's literally designed to say nothing about this game. So, how would I push her on it, even with an affirmative answer?

All the question does is help me understand her for future games. That's why I prefaced it with "Just curious."

Oh you're serious, lmfao alright.
Even if I was serious enough to think you were >rand wolf from this, I don't care about a vote, I consider it a useless thing to flop around unless I really wanna do something with it or I'm making a joke. If a vote is what's needed to make a point, there's no point in doing anything but just voting people. We can use words, so I'll use words.

My point on your question isn't wrong, it's framed in a way that appears to be trying to make them look bad OR to make you look like you're doing something both of which are bad but I didn't even remotely care outside of poking fun until you're taking this way further than I expected it to.

Yeah but like you just click a couple of buttons

Same as above.

I'm convinced

VOTE: SirCakez

Unironically suspecting shaddowez

This actually sounds like a read but he then immediately posts the following readlist:

J

a

c

k

s

o

n

V

i

r

g

o

I

n

v

i

s

i

b

i

l

i

t

y

M

u

c

h

o

M

a

n

R

a

n

d

y

P

a

s

s

i

o

n

S

k

y

g

a

z

e

r

A

r

g

o

n

a

u

t

s

s

h

a

d

d

o

w

e

z

Z

e

b

e

d

e

e

S

a

v

e

T

h

e

D

r

a

g

o

n

s

R

o

d

e

n

S

i

r

C

a

k

e

z

H

u

T

a

o

B

l

a

c

k

l

u

c

c

a

2

6

1

N

o

t

_

M

a

f

i

a

And shaddowez is in the upper half despite being the person just noted as being suspected? Does not lend itself to being taken seriously.

Why?

Okay that might actually be genuine engagement but it's still in the same category of the first few posts of "not really a read".

[Argonauts]

Wow, I don't usually fail quotes like that. It's late and I'm tired. Let's try that again.

Just curious - I've seen this from you before, is it a standard opening you use to avoid giving information?

Straight into shading someone, gotta love it

Says the man throwing shade without a vote.

Since when did I need to place a vote to make a point

You don't need to, but it helps

This might be a read if you squint, or just advice.

Since when did I need to place a vote to make a point

What's the motivation for a townie who sees supposedly scummy activity, and isn't currently voting anyone, to NOT vote the scummy activity? OTOH, scum could want to point out the activity in hope that another townie picks up on it and starts a push.

Also, your point on my question is wrong. Even if she answers yes, that just means she's playing to her overall scum meta (town would want towniness to come through in RVS). It says nothing about this particular game. It's literally designed to say nothing about this game. So, how would I push her on it, even with an affirmative answer?

All the question does is help me understand her for future games. That's why I prefaced it with "Just curious."

Oh you're serious, lmfao alright.
Even if I was serious enough to think you were >rand wolf from this, I don't care about a vote, I consider it a useless thing to flop around unless I really wanna do something with it or I'm making a joke. If a vote is what's needed to make a point, there's no point in doing anything but just voting people. We can use words, so I'll use words.

My point on your question isn't wrong, it's framed in a way that appears to be trying to make them look bad OR to make you look like you're doing something both of which are bad but I didn't even remotely care outside of poking fun until you're taking this way further than I expected it to.

Yeah but like you just click a couple of buttons

Same as above.

I'm convinced

VOTE: SirCakez

Unironically suspecting shaddowez

This actually sounds like a read but he then immediately posts the following readlist:

J

a

c

k

s

o

n

V

i

r

g

o

I

n

v

i

s

i

b

i

l

i

t

y

M

u

c

h

o

M

a

n

R

a

n

d

y

P

a

s

s

i

o

n

S

k

y

g

a

z

e

r

A

r

g

o

n

a

u

t

s

s

h

a

d

d

o

w

e

z

Z

e

b

e

d

e

e

S

a

v

e

T

h

e

D

r

a

g

o

n

s

R

o

d

e

n

S

i

r

C

a

k

e

z

H

u

T

a

o

B

l

a

c

k

l

u

c

c

a

2

6

1

N

o

t

_

M

a

f

i

a

And shaddowez is in the upper half despite being the person just noted as being suspected? Does not lend itself to being taken seriously.

Why?

Okay that might actually be genuine engagement but it's still in the same category of the first few posts of "not really a read".

[Argonauts]

And not remembering to sign either, really should go to bed.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Thank you for note on Argo. Still bizarre to me though .

Has anyone made any claims yet?

Why all the votes on Argo?

Yes, Cakez claimed ascetic miller and we claimed backup miller. Unless you're a miller or something similarly incriminating it's not generally recommended to claim starting off, so please keep your role info to yourself for now. Alignment is fine.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Only 2 days left. What's the main reason tor Argo votes?

From what I can see, RH's initial post?

Probably the fact that each head has kinda been doing their own thing as well.

We really are a recipe for some delicious lhf.

Also, as someone pointed out, Skygazer's vote on us and reasoning is the drizzling shits.

Objectively, how can one look at both of us and say WE are the scummy one?

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

I think we're shaping up to just flashwagon crazily at deadline like the first iteration of this.

I'm particularly interested in hearing from Black about her vote. I noticed she seemed to be following my vote for a while and now she's doing the opposite.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Naw, he's probably town.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I think we're shaping up to just flashwagon crazily at deadline like the first iteration of this.

I'm particularly interested in hearing from Black about her vote. I noticed she seemed to be following my vote for a while and now she's doing the opposite.

-Atalanta

I wasn't following your vote, at least not intentionally. I had to look at your ISO to see and all I noticed was we were on the shaddow wagon together

As far as my vote on your slot goes, it was mainly to pressure RH9 and also glean some reactions from the wagon. I had gotten success getting Sky and Invis to talk with pressure votes so I figured I'd do the same with you

Yeah, that's about as useful as trying to pressure Night Lights to get Alisae to talk was. Actually probably even less so because Alisae is normally expected to be active and I think the opposite goes for RH. I think we're all spread a little thin at the moment and him in particular.

I see your concern about Invisibility and agree, she's done nothing of note. My concern voting there though is that's basically what she did last time around, and was town, so it's probably NAI.

[Argonauts]

Naw, he's probably town.

-Atalanta

Just because his username turned green over the course of this day does not mean that his rolecard is green.


More seriously, I don't really see it. Why do you townread them?

Do you know how Dragons normally plays?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Naw, he's probably town.

-Atalanta

Just because his username turned green over the course of this day does not mean that his rolecard is green.


More seriously, I don't really see it. Why do you townread them?

Do you know how Dragons normally plays?

-Atalanta

Hydra dissonance amirite?

But what is the issue with some pressure?

I disagree this makes him town

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

Was liking Jacob 100% for town before he used the word ISO

it tells me he's totally capable of acting dumb around the setup to feel newtown because he has probably lurked heavily around the site tbh

Eh, I picked up on what an ISO was pretty quickly. If he were to keep acting clueless afterwards I could maybe see this, but if it was an act I think he'd be more likely to keep it up like "guys, what's an ISO?" rather than just adopting its use.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I have? I'm not sure I recall talking about it at all other than randomly voting there at the start of the game because the name annoyed me x_x

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Idk, I feel like if I did a readlist it'd probably be in the lower half. I just didn't get/agree with those points against the slot.

Like, how do you even hunt for a SK anyway?? There's no associations to look at. All you could really do would be hope they're faking a read to keep a certain positioning in the game, like Aisa did to me recently.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

i'm going to be on a cruise from the 21st (tomorrow) to 30th so i won't be around that much.
~o

[Argonauts]

i'd say that i kinda like jake rn.
~o

[Argonauts]

I am of mixed opinion on Jake.

And our other head voted Jake.



We're very readable, guys.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

UNVOTE: jake
i just realised that we're voting him.
~o

[Argonauts]

Let's start another new wagon then, there aren't enough wagons now. Less than 8 is just silly.

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Argonauts]

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Yes, right, exactly.

VOTE: Hu Tao

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Chaos is great, guys. You all should VOTE: Hu Tao.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Yes, right, exactly.

VOTE: Hu Tao

-Atalanta

Chaos is great, guys. You all should VOTE: Hu Tao.

-Atalanta

*sips beer while shaking his head with a sly smile on his face*

Aureal is something else isn't she Hu?

I don't agree, but let's see what happens

And ftr, I would love a Sky wagon

-Asclepius

Pre Edit: I buried the lede a bit, but that is Aureal

[Argonauts]

Look at this cool wagon suddenly forming! Quickly now, we must VOTE: Hu Tao so we don't get left out!

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Black, you should totally VOTE: Hu Tao, all the cool kids are doing it!

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

lucca feels super townie to me

Why so? Honest question, I'm not calling out or doubting

I just think a lot of his observations have come from a town perspective. I liked 422. 607 and 615 ping me as the type of paranoia a townie would have. I like the way he admits he's wrong in 610, not really a town-tell but it makes me feel like he's being reasonable. I like 613 as well, makes me think he's trying to legitimately solve

I do agree about Lucca

Also Aureal would really love if you did her a solid here, I can't control her anymore lol

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

lucca feels super townie to me

Why so? Honest question, I'm not calling out or doubting

I just think a lot of his observations have come from a town perspective. I liked 422. 607 and 615 ping me as the type of paranoia a townie would have. I like the way he admits he's wrong in 610, not really a town-tell but it makes me feel like he's being reasonable. I like 613 as well, makes me think he's trying to legitimately solve

I do agree about Lucca

Also Aureal would really love if you did her a solid here, I can't control her anymore lol

-Asclepius

I have a hard time believing you were ever able to control her

Clearly heh

I'm not sure if a Hu Tao vanity wagon is the best idea. We risk a no elimination with all these split wagons

It's time for all the people on the one-vote wagons to start consolidating

But I will take control now

VOTE: Invis

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

Aureal I missed your usual gif opening this game

Who is that? This is the Argonaut Atalanta, I have never heard of this 'Aureal' person or know what a gif is.

[Argonauts]

I'm not sure if a Hu Tao vanity wagon is the best idea. We risk a no elimination with all these split wagons

It's time for all the people on the one-vote wagons to start consolidating

Oh please, go look at the first iteration of this to see how fast wagons can happen. I think we had at least 3 flashwagons in the final 12 or so hours?

-Atalanta

Also there seems to be something wrong with the vote count, I'm quite certain I saw at least four votes on Hu Tao last page.

[Argonauts]

Not true, one of the heads is on vacation.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Someone convince me to vote on a train and I might. I don’t fully grasp all of the social interactions from some people who have been around longer so what might look weird to me might be normal behavior.

Can we all agree that Jacob is just dripping in towniness?

And Jacob, realistically it is between us and Invis for today's lim. Look at us both and decide who you feel would be a better vote for d1.

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

Wow, that was a terrible attempt to pocket Jacob.

Watch,

this

is how to pocket Jacob.

VOTE: lucca261



-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Wow, that was a terrible attempt to pocket Jacob.

Watch,

this

is how to pocket Jacob.

VOTE: lucca261



-Atalanta

You have been watching too many of my games.

You have gone full Drew.

The cycle is now complete, my work here is done.

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

Not if I get you first, it isn't!

VOTE: Argonauts

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

In all seriousness, as much as Aureal wants to be me......we both feel that voting Invis just is to not vote us.....Shadow is the better play.

VOTE: Shadow

Jacob honey, join this wagon

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

Do people actually have suspicion on Invis? This feels like a lurker pressure wagon that's been left to coast too long.

I still like where my vote is. Invisibility showed up after I voted them, and their catch up felt like more of a "Oops, have to do something. I'm busy most of the day, but will do another read through and post more thoughts this afternoon.

It's crazy because the second sentence is exactly how I could describe shaddowez's reaction to being wagoned. Came back, did some basic stuff, then dipped again and is so clearly hypocritically going after Invis that he's pointing it out himself.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Pfft there's like 5 hours left, that's more than enough time to run up like three different wagons. This defeatism is depressing.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I'm down to fade Jacob

I feel like he TMI'd that Hu Tao was the scum kill

That doesn't sound like TMI to me, just common sense. Although I guess Jacob probably doesn't have a great grasp of Not_Mafia's reputation so maybe a little more questionable coming from him.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I have a loyal modifier and my action failed on you

I manually counted and only 12 roles can interfere with that result, out of 150

And yet this exact thing happened in the first version, with our Loyal Checker getting roleblocked. It isn't even all that unlikely.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I'm down to fade Jacob

I feel like he TMI'd that Hu Tao was the scum kill

That doesn't sound like TMI to me, just common sense. Although I guess Jacob probably doesn't have a great grasp of Not_Mafia's reputation so maybe a little more questionable coming from him.

-Atalanta

Why would he assume HT is the mafia kill and Not_Mafia is a town shot if he's not mafia? If he was town and two people got shot, he would've been way more confused about wtf happened given the supposed lack of knowledge about a SK (in his words)

Honestly it was exactly the same as my reaction. There's no way Mafia shoots Not_Mafia, and if you don't immediately have the fact that there's a SK on your mind it's easy to think that's got to be a vig shot.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I mean hell, maybe it

was

a vig shot and the SK got blocked. Or is the depressingly evil SK who can't actually kill.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Why would JV

not

have been roleblocked? Looks like most of the roles that can do that are scum and he's been pretty townread? Doubt they want him possibly doing useful night action stuff if he's town.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

If he's actually town and Jackson was roleblocked/lying, that's a totally natural reaction though. He comes in and is on the verge of getting pushed out the door immediately for reasons he knows are false, obviously he's going to be confused and try to figure out what's going on. What kind of insight do you even expect to get from him here when basically everyone is just going "yeah okay let's vote him because guilty"?

I'd like to hear more from Jackson on why he decided to target Jacob's slot.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Meh whatever

VOTE: Jacob24

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I'm guessing another lurker

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Meh whatever

VOTE: Jacob24

-Atalanta

This vote seems out of character for you. I'm not used to you being ok with ending the day so early

Hey, I'm on a great streak of days ending early and turning out Incredibly Well, why wouldn't I want more</s>

I guess I'm kinda sour on the chances of NOT just sleepwalking into things given how the EoD went and how fast votes were coming in, and then my opinion on the chances of this being a false guilty took a sudden nosedive. So why even fight it

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I targeted them last night and it failed. I am not holding much weight to the result for obvious reasons (but the fact that it's 3.5% chance of a role that can do this actually hurts if true). Black caught reluctant behaviour from Cakez that I haven't been able to drop from my mind, especially given a green flip I have a creeping feeling it's because they knew it was going to flip green and was reluctant because of it. I checked them in the off case that I could confirm them and push me into a different direction, but for right now I'm wanting to push this.

...are you saying thst you targeted Cakez last night? The claimed Ascetic?

Bruh

You're better than this

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Moderator Announcement

Shouldn't affect anything, but full disclosure, I accidentally pasted the Night 3 flip into the post where the Night 2 flip was. Going to fix that now.

Our destinies have already been written

I must seek the wisdom of Cassandra that I may know the future preordained

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Well your action is clearly unreliable at this point so I don't think it even matters much

If you're town, whoever blocked you is probably just gleefully blocking you forever now since it worked so well the first time

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

And I'm saying, I looked up all the roles that could affect my role and said it was roughly an 8% chance. Stop role fishing

pedit: I don't really care what you're calling out, it's meaningless

And how could we trust that it is a comprehensive list?

Does it matter? As I said to Jacob himself, the chance was >rand to a substantial degree and I scum-read him anyway as did many others. You're barking up the wrong tree

Who was scum reading him?

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

Ima make a drink and come back, love you <3

I know this was directed at Jake lol, but love you too.

That being said, the way you have been defensive is awfully familiar to scumJackson in Mafia has a Cop

-Aclepius

[Argonauts]

Oh lol, I had looked at day 2 and noticed Black being inconsistent about her thoughts on the Not_Mafia kill. I didn't notice she was responding to Jacob in one post and Jake in another. XD


-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

How dare you.

You should turn all the lights on. Spoil her title too.

[Argonauts]

Paradoxically, you've implied that you've both posted enough relevant things to be active And that the game has been slow as a reason for inactivity:

Aureal was implying that I didn't feel like my usual self because I typically pounce on people early. I

was

posting relevant things, but I

wasn't

pouncing on anyone.

HEY

YOU CAN'T BUY INTO DREW'S LIES ABOUT ME BEING HIM



-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Where do you think that feeling is coming from?

It's coming from the knowledge that I have been known to scumread the two of you, and so I would have bias in this exchange, which is why I asked to be sanity checked.

You've been known to scumread Jackson and Black? You guys are being really confusing and probably partly because Jackson just uses whatever pronouns he feels like describing people with.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

That answer only confuses me more. Are you talking about what's happened in THIS game? That isn't the expected use of the phrase. You sounded like you were talking about previous games.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I should rephrase, I generally think meta is bad because people often misuse it to a pretty substantial degree. People often try and prove their beliefs directly which is an extremely ineffective way of thinking because it leaves you open to confirmation bias and cherry picking what feels right (because it's what you believe). You need to actively try and disprove what you're feeling, but nobody really does this whenever they meta-dive. I see time and time again that they try and prove themselves right. It doesn't work. There's a reason the scientific method is to DISPROVE your theories instead of just proving them.

It's easier to just say "meta bad" than to explain why

Sorry to break up the J&J party going on here.

But I do kinda agree what you are saying here Jackson, you need to be skeptical when using meta. Don't use it to prove your point per se, use it to to back up the read you have on someone(or to do the opposite........ie, in one game where they were scum they acted like this here.....but I have seen them act differently as scum as well).

That being said, this isn't always the case.......meta can help you catch someone as scum(and more often with me helps me find someone as town). And as I have said, meta hasn't made me find you as town so far(and even have said meta reminds me that you seem somewhat similar to your scum game in mafia has a cop, and doesn't remind you as you were in that last 9:12 game where I was scum).

-Asclepius

Pre Edit: Jackson, imo meta is the best used when applying it to a very similar situation where someones role was known(a back and forth where one game you were scum, and another game where you were town). I was saying your defensiveness seemed more like when you were scum vs the game where you were town.......you seemed more sure of yourself and your read, or at least expressed it better than just lashing out.

[Argonauts]

I should rephrase, I generally think meta is bad because people often misuse it to a pretty substantial degree. People often try and prove their beliefs directly which is an extremely ineffective way of thinking because it leaves you open to confirmation bias and cherry picking what feels right (because it's what you believe). You need to actively try and disprove what you're feeling, but nobody really does this whenever they meta-dive. I see time and time again that they try and prove themselves right. It doesn't work. There's a reason the scientific method is to DISPROVE your theories instead of just proving them.

It's easier to just say "meta bad" than to explain why

Sorry to break up the J&J party going on here.

But I do kinda agree what you are saying here Jackson, you need to be skeptical when using meta. Don't use it to prove your point per se, use it to to back up the read you have on someone(or to do the opposite........ie, in one game where they were scum they acted like this here.....but I have seen them act differently as scum as well).

That being said, this isn't always the case.......meta can help you catch someone as scum(and more often with me helps me find someone as town). And as I have said, meta hasn't made me find you as town so far(and even have said meta reminds me that you seem somewhat similar to your scum game in mafia has a cop, and doesn't remind you as you were in that last 9:12 game where I was scum).

-Asclepius

Pre Edit: Jackson, imo meta is the best used when applying it to a very similar situation where someones role was known(a back and forth where one game you were scum, and another game where you were town). I was saying your defensiveness seemed more like when you were scum vs the game where you were town.......you seemed more sure of yourself and your read, or at least expressed it better than just lashing out.

It

is

always the case, the logic is faulty if you're taking unneeded risk of bias/fallacies but this is just the fallacy fallacy. Just because the logic is faulty, doesn't mean the outcome is inherently wrong. The logic you're using is not taking into account my full town/scum range and thus it's faulty logic but you can still use it but if you use the same logic in a scum game of mine and you're right. You were right, but the logic was still faulty.

Listen, if we are gonna argue if meta is good or bad......acting like your own self meta is infallible is just plain wrong at best, and manipulative at worst.

YOU don't know when you are giving clues to your play and alignment most of the time, no matter how hard you try to stay in your town range. Everyone gives clues to their alignment in every game, and the more you play with a person the more you will pick up on said clues(obviously with some people it is harder than others).

I am using a very specific meta read, one game where you were scum and one game where you were town.......and saying how much more defensive you were in your scum game than your town game(which btw, in the scum game there was no real risk of you being limmed at that point, most people town read you besides me at that point).....whereas the town game of yours it literally was lylo, and you played it way more cool.

You can act like you have some amazing range as either alignment, and I won't dispute that, but many times you don't realize how you act in very specific situations.

That is the main part of why meta can be great in these specific situations......where it takes an outside perspective from someone who was right there with you, to see that might be pulling the wool over our eyes.

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

the fallacy fallacy.

See, this is why I said Jackson has posted most of the words in this game.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I love talking about this sort of thing, I'm indulging myself

I didn't want to create a huge quote tree lol

But I am not putting your play in a box, you aren't picking up what I am putting down here.

When python or Flavor Leaf are town, they correctly nail my alignment.....even when others admit that my scum and town range is all over the charts lol. You can't act like you know how you will act in every situation(and this goes for life in general lol). It takes another set of eyeballs to see exactly what you are doing, even if you don't even know you are doing it.

Hell in a game that just ended Psyche correctly called me scum almost right away when I made a post that seemingly was a post I would make as town 10 times out of 10.

So, with all due respect, love you man.......but spare me the self meta defense

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

I love talking about this sort of thing, I'm indulging myself

I didn't want to create a huge quote tree lol
--snip--
So, with all due respect, love you man.......but spare me the self meta defense

-Asclepius

I believe I am picking up what you're putting down, but this is all meaningless. I wasn't making that discussion to defend myself, I was trying to talk about my thoughts on meta and used that as an example.

You literally were calling me out for not realizing how much of a range you supposedly have and that I was putting your play in a box.

How is that not using your own perceived self meta as a defense?

-Ascelpius

[Argonauts]

I love talking about this sort of thing, I'm indulging myself

I didn't want to create a huge quote tree lol
--snip--
So, with all due respect, love you man.......but spare me the self meta defense

-Asclepius

I believe I am picking up what you're putting down, but this is all meaningless. I wasn't making that discussion to defend myself, I was trying to talk about my thoughts on meta and used that as an example.

You literally were calling me out for not realizing how much of a range you supposedly have and that I was putting your play in a box.

How is that not using your own perceived self meta as a defense?

-Ascelpius

I can't spell lol

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

Wow, I was wondering if I was seriously the only one who actually checked what role Cakez could have when he claimed ascetic miller. Guess so. Crazy.

It was frigging obvious to me that he's the one who shot Not_Mafia since I did do that. Sorry you guys weren't paying enough attention.

Black, you want a lurker wagon, we'redown to VOTE: Skygazer~

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

i'm back!
~o

[Argonauts]

Eh, it's basically all Jackson and Jake pontificating about you, and Sky claimed neighbor with no neighbors. Didn't miss much.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

i'm on team lets not vote out skygazer

I am always on Team Skygazer

Unfortunately for you, the team what wants to vote you out

Also, and maybe this is a Drew read(err, Asclepius read), but it feels to me that this wagon kinda stagnating and even people hopping off makes me feel like scum thought the wagon would naturally dissipate.......but lack of activity these past few days have forced the hand of the members of scum to leave the wagon to make sure their buddy is not limmed.

Like, usually an early day wagon doesn't stick, so no need for scum to worry too much.......but this one has stuck, with no real counter wagon.

This obviously is only relevant if Sky is Team Scumbutt, but just was something I was thinking about at work today.

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

but lack of activity these past few days have forced the hand of the members of scum to leave the wagon to make sure their buddy is not limmed.

Yeah, I'm mafia and I'm trying to get the votes all off my buddies wagon. Can you help pretty please?

K thanks for admitting it

Cakez, feel free to shoot this guy tonight. Or shaddowez.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Sky is either scum true claiming neighbor or town true claiming

Lying about being a neighbor lends yourself to a potential counter claim

I would guess there are more town neighbor roles than scum neighbor roles but I could be wrong about that, haven't counted

Yes, that's why their claim does not matter. There's exactly 3 town neighbours and 3 evil neighbours

Actually the odds of drawing a neighbor role as town or scum are different. It depends on exactly how many total roles there are but there's probably more town roles overall? It's actually hard to tell at a glance because the setup post just give the initial breakdown for 100 slots but we're using all 150, and even with 100 we'd have to count up the free slots.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

See I was right town is more likely

even if I didn't know it

bask in my brilliance

Wrong. Jackson correctly calculated the odds of a particular person being a neighbor of a certain alignment (I assume, I didn't double-check the specific math) and then kept spinning the numbers into the overall odds of drawing a neighbor role using the total number of players, which is irrelevant here. We're not talking about the odds of

someone

in the game getting a neighbor role, we're talking about the odds of

Skygazer

getting one as a certain alignment. Which apparently is 3/86 as town, 2/26 as Mafia OR 1/25 as Werewolf. So like I said, notably higher likelihood of it being Mafia.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

And frankly the "odds don't matter, oh no a hammer intent waaaaaait stop let me calculate the odds!!!" comes off pretty desperate.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

i'm on team lets not vote out skygazer

I am always on Team Skygazer

Unfortunately for you, the team what wants to vote you out

Also, and maybe this is a Drew read(err, Asclepius read), but it feels to me that this wagon kinda stagnating and even people hopping off makes me feel like scum thought the wagon would naturally dissipate.......but lack of activity these past few days have forced the hand of the members of scum to leave the wagon to make sure their buddy is not limmed.

Like, usually an early day wagon doesn't stick, so no need for scum to worry too much.......but this one has stuck, with no real counter wagon.

This obviously is only relevant if Sky is Team Scumbutt, but just was something I was thinking about at work today.

-Asclepius

How is this a sticky wagon? It formed like a day ago

Lulz, I was tempted to say something like this too, but then people would complain about hydra dissonance. Sometimes it just be like


-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

And frankly the "odds don't matter, oh no a hammer intent waaaaaait stop let me calculate the odds!!!" comes off pretty desperate.

-Atalanta

Bitch please, I was excited and didn't want that to go nowhere

Wow wtf

Why are you such a rude little shit?? Get your misogyny away from me. That's totally uncalled for and I'm not even going to bother talking to you, you clearly want nothing more than to shut me down.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

That was a playful bitch please, should have expressed my tone better

I'm familiar with the phrase so I know you didn't mean harm, but I probably just wouldn't use that one anymore. Some people haven't heard it used that way or they may just not like being called that even if it has playful undertones

I have and it does not matter. I am not on 'playful banter' terms with Jackson and there is no reason for him to have thought we could be. It is an offensive slur used to demean a certain group to keep them in their place and its usage here was totally in line with that. It is not up to him to decide when it's okay to direct a slur at someone else and they should just be okay with it.

[Argonauts]

shadow, are you usually self-conscious as town?
~o

[Argonauts]

sky's claim is still sus imo.
i feel like a neighbor by self seems a bit too weird.
or maybe the mods are just trolling us.
~o
p.s. this is me re-isoing sky.

[Argonauts]

sky's claim is still sus imo.
i feel like a neighbor by self seems a bit too weird.
or maybe the mods are just trolling us.
~o
p.s. this is me re-isoing sky.

I asked, and the mod confirmed that they would just have one neighbor in a PT

i see…
~o

[Argonauts]

Aw cmon Dragon, Black wouldn't use an ax. She'd use a compact longbow.

Hey, has anyone seen my longbow?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

More votes on StD please

K

VOTE: Save the Dragons

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Why

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

You could have coordinated this with a partner (Argo) to try and put pressure on me to see what would happen.

Don't I wish.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Mine? Still think he's likely a scumbucket. Faking a Loyal guilty makes a decent amount of sense in a world where he's got a partner who's low activity and likely to get run up next, like our S-crowd. I first thought it'd be silly for him to do it and risk going down in the aftermath rather than have a more vulnerable partner do it; but on the other hand he seems to be townread enough he's getting away with it whereas if like Skygazer had claimed the guilty we'd probably have just yeeted her already.

I particularly hated how he's kept rudely shutting me down when I try to ask him stuff, and then he turned around when Jake asked him the same damn thing and had a longwinded obtuse discussion. And yet I still don't understand why he would target Jacob and go about announcing it like he did if he's town.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I'm disconcerted by the way Dragons has been engaging here, but it also makes me feel like if he's scum it'd most likely be with both Sky and shaddowez. This feels like fighting to survive, and if he had less scumread partners he wouldn't need to go into that mode here.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Yeah but I've not seen

you

do it before

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Yes, I was and it's a prime point of reference for me here. T-Bone totally would've voted you in elo if I hadn't forced the 1v1 with Drew. You did nothing, to the point where I don't think you even looked in before the deadline and so the game just would've been lost anyhow even if T-Bone voted correctly.

I'll go back to VOTE: Skygazer anyhow, for now

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

argo, why is your vibe so scummy to me?

Because it's basically just me here at this point?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

argo, why is your vibe so scummy to me?

Because it's basically just me here at this point?

-Atalanta

I am most angry that you called Aureal's vibe more scummy than me

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

What happened to the skygazer wagon

Gone, reduced to atoms.

And thank the lord for that one

Thanking the lord isn't very metal of you

By why so happy it has poofed and gone away?

-Ascelpius

[Argonauts]

i'm on team lets not vote out skygazer

I am always on Team Skygazer

Unfortunately for you, the team what wants to vote you out

Also, and maybe this is a Drew read(err, Asclepius read), but it feels to me that this wagon kinda stagnating and even people hopping off makes me feel like scum thought the wagon would naturally dissipate.......but lack of activity these past few days have forced the hand of the members of scum to leave the wagon to make sure their buddy is not limmed.

Like, usually an early day wagon doesn't stick, so no need for scum to worry too much.......but this one has stuck, with no real counter wagon.

This obviously is only relevant if Sky is Team Scumbutt, but just was something I was thinking about at work today.

-Asclepius

Just before I say what I wanted to say, you'd need some pretty agreeable people in a hydra now that I've realised it cuz imagine a hydra just voting the people they want out and then refusing to let another head get their vote, who also just votes whenever the heads change it. Crazy

Regarding this post, I wanted to sit on this to see what I thought of it given some time to think (I responded to it initially to acknowledge it). What would be the difference between a stagnant wagon (because scum would hope it drops off) to a stagnant wagon because the Town likes where the gamestate is?

I've seen the argument "stagnant game, scum controlled game" my words that I came up with on the spot but I've never seen it framed in the way you said it here. Can you elaborate on that?

We are a hydra that can't get all 3 heads together at once haha, I kinda like it tbh.

What I mean here though, is that a good amount of the time the first wagon of the day is not the ending wagon, I mean it could end up being the vote but not before other wagons start to happen. So, even with Sky close to a lim scum didn't really need to be proactive to end the wagon initially since the natural ebb and flow of the game would kick in and eventually another wagon would happen......but that wasn't happening since the game was going a bit slow.

Then the std wagon started happening, and Shadow once again gained steam.

There is also the added wrinkle that losing their buddy(scumSky) without having to defend them isn't a terrible play, even if you lose a buddy, since there would be no clear associatives........but now I am starting to ramble a bit lol.

Why do you town read Sky so much anyways?

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

What I mean here though, is that a good amount of the time the first wagon of the day is not the ending wagon, I mean it could end up being the vote but not before other wagons start to happen. So, even with Sky close to a lim scum didn't really need to be proactive to end the wagon initially since the natural ebb and flow of the game would kick in and eventually another wagon would happen......but that wasn't happening since the game was going a bit slow.

I agree with you about the starting wagon stuff. But that didn't really answer my question, unless I'm just really unable to think properly cuz of my headache. I already explained my read on Sky, not really feeling up to repeating myself but I can find the post for you if you want me to

finding the post would be nice tbh.
~o

[Argonauts]

im wrestling with jackson

the big thing i'm struggling with is the jacob push d2. i could see scum doing that and doing a "tee hee oopsy whoopsy" about face

but would scum!jackson pick jacob because they saw an easy target? why not push someone else with a little more clout

Yeah that was my first reaction. But if Jacob is such an easy target to flip, why didn't Jackson just push him without claiming? Doesn't really sound like the town mindset of someone who wants to potentially keep investigating more afterwards.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Maybe that's a cultural difference, do you usually not claim guilties immediately here?

What kind of question is this? You've been here for years and have 10k posts, surely you're aware of various strategies investigatives might take with regard to their results. In my admittedly limited experience they're typically shy about outright claiming a guilty and prefer to just make a strong push in hopes of not getting taken out the next night.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Don't you think it's a little late for wolves to still be supporting two to consolidate onto later? Are you seeing a Black/Argon/Shadow team?

why black?
~o

[Argonauts]

Maybe that's a cultural difference, do you usually not claim guilties immediately here?

What kind of question is this? You've been here for years and have 10k posts, surely you're aware of various strategies investigatives might take with regard to their results. In my admittedly limited experience they're typically shy about outright claiming a guilty and prefer to just make a strong push in hopes of not getting taken out the next night.

-Atalanta

I played here about 10% of the total time I've played mafia, including my substantial hiatus which I'm just recently coming back from and I've never had someone say what you just said regarding hiding a red-check so I was just asking if that's a thing that happens here. Where I'm from, we claim guilties immediately. There's not much utility in hiding a guilty as a 1 for 1 always benefits the Town, I don't wanna play mindgames and push people and claim a guilty later if it doesn't work, that idea sounds so awful to me.

So this whole sequence was lost on you? You paid no mind to how your scum partner nearly got turbo yeeted because your other scum partner came into the day voting him and townies interpreted it as a guilty? Even when she talked about it in the mafia PT?

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Argo has also fallen off for me. They feel like they haven't been much of an influence on much today and considering the contingent of that hydra I feel like they should be having more impact rn

I'll... take it as a compliment that I'm apparently supposed to have an impact?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

When the hell was Drew town-reading Skygazer? He was actively scumreading her all game, I've been more indifferent.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I am always on Team Skygazer

Unfortunately for you, the team what wants to vote you out

The hell does this mean if it wasn't

Seriously Jackson.....seriously

We have played enough for you to get my jokes

I literally said the team that wants to vote Sky out

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

Why the fuck did you say it the way you did if you meant it like that

Don't make me yellow m&m you

jokes.gif my man, was a fun way to say I think Sky is scum

-Asclepius

Pre Edit: Uh wut

My whole point was that the scum team losing a buddy so quickly isn't the worst thing in the world because lack of associatives.

Ftr, in no way shape or form am I, or ever stated, that I am town reading or read Sky

[Argonauts]

Why the fuck did you say it the way you did if you meant it like that

Don't make me yellow m&m you

jokes.gif my man, was a fun way to say I think Sky is scum

-Asclepius

Pre Edit: Uh wut

My whole point was that the scum team losing a buddy so quickly isn't the worst thing in the world because lack of associatives.

Ftr, in no way shape or form am I, or ever stated, that I am town reading or read Sky

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

I'm sorry for reading what you meant wrong, that caused me so much distress and I didn't know why the hell nobody was seeing how absolutely wacky that would be from you. I understand now, a little more than before at least

My whole point was that the scum team losing a buddy so quickly isn't the worst thing in the world because lack of associatives.

This game is giving me brain rot

I hope you aren't regretting the kind words you gave me in your GTKAS lol

luv ya my man

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

I just had to break up a fight between my mates, today is cursed as hell

my condolences.
~o

[Argonauts]

I think Jackson being loud and complaining about being scumread after he pushed through a false guilty is pretty cringe. I disliked how he handled it in the moment, both trying to push just how incredibly unlikely it was to be a false guilty and also that it's totally not his fault if it's false.

And yet this exact thing happened in the first version, with our Loyal Checker getting roleblocked. It isn't even all that unlikely.

Just because it happened doesn't mean it's likely. You say it isn't unlikely but even if it's 75/25% (which it is far from), they're scummy on their own and I would want them flipped regardless as I did on D1.

I started going this way in my last post, regarding JacksonVirgo. While I want to say he's scum because of his call on me, it seems like it'd be a dumb play, since his whole argument was that it's a super low chance he'd been blocked, meaning the reasoning could be used right back at him when I'm revealed as a townie.

What? Your focus continually seems more and more off base. If you're Town you're repeatedly focusing on the wrong things

I never said the only possibility was you being mafia because it isn't and I especially don't believe that. I'm confident, I am not saying you're confirmed wolf and there's a massive difference in that you seem to be ignoring. I scum-read your slot the most through day one, and I have an action that corroborates that same idea. Do you genuinely think I would not see that those things align and be more confident in my reads? Do you genuinely think that because of my reads and the soft-guilty aligning with those, that I must be wolf if I'm wrong? Forgive me if I'm wrong on this but nobody is voting you primarily based off the soft-guilty, nearly everybody that I saw said that they had you scum-read by some degree and this is just aligning with that fact. It's not a cop-guilty, and nobody except you is pretending that it is. Stop it

Jackson, why do you think my reaction to your 'guilty' check was townie? You said it would be if Jacob flipped red, but he didn't, but you're still saying it.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Jackson, why do you think my reaction to your 'guilty' check was townie? You said it would be if Jacob flipped red, but he didn't, but you're still saying it.

I already explained why, pretty recently at that, the read would be stronger if he flipped red yeah but the feeling still remains

I don't understand how you can think Jacob's reactions to your guilty were bad, but me thinking they were fine (at least at first) is townie.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Sudden urge to hammer

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Why would hammering town do anything in regards to 'disassociating' with them? They'd be town, obviously there's no associations. And the game might be over tonight and it wouldn't even matter.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

You said it.

You should. It would do wonders to disassociate yourself from Shadez

should they turn up rosy

.

I'm trying to decide if you're trying to provoke a hammer or provoke people to spurn the shaddowez wagon. You're clearly trying to provoke

something

.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Yeah, I'm trying to provoke something that'll give me more clarity into what to do here. Looks like it's between two wagons that are both in my PoE, and I have only slightly different feels on. But they're probably not both scum, unless one is SK, so it probably matters which one we go with.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Frankly I find Jake's shade here to be pretty bad. "Why won't you vote shaddowez omg guys, you're sus!" when shaddowez has been sitting on e-1 for quite a while is pretty lol. Has Jake even asked what we think about shaddowez, or looked into what we've done or said with the slot earlier? Guess not. I'd probably have been voting shaddowez too at some point today if not for the fact that he's been at e-1 when I've felt like moving my vote.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I think that pov might be kind of backwards. Townies are probably more likely to change their minds as they react to things and try to solve. Scum will have an agenda they want to push and find it harder to move naturally.

I think I'm gonna go compare the d1 shaddowez wagon with this one- the way his wagon dissolved midway through the day and moved to town was something I've been looking askance at.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

1.08

Votecount 1.08

Argonauts

(3): SirCakez,

Invisibility

,

Roden

shaddowez (3):

Argonauts

, lucca261, Black
Black (2): shaddowez, Jake The Wolfie
SirCakez (1):

Not_Mafia

Mucho Man Randy Passion

(1): JacksonVirgo
lucca261 (1):

Mucho Man Randy Passion

Not Voting (3):

Hu Tao

, Skygazer, Save The Dragons

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to secure an execution or 7 votes to secure a no-execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-21 20:03:19).

1.09

Votecount 1.09

shaddowez (5):

Argonauts

, lucca261, Black, Jake The Wolfie,

Not_Mafia

Argonauts

(3): SirCakez,

Invisibility, Roden

Black (1): shaddowez

Mucho Man Randy Passion

(1): JacksonVirgo
lucca261 (1):

Mucho Man Randy Passion

Not_Mafia (1): Hu Tao

Not Voting (2): Skygazer, Save The Dragons

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to secure an execution or 7 votes to secure a no-execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-21 20:03:19).

1.10

Votecount 1.10

shaddowez (4):

Argonauts

, lucca261, Black,

Not_Mafia

Black (2): shaddowez,

Roden

Argonauts (1): Invisibility

Mucho Man Randy Passion

(1): JacksonVirgo
lucca261 (1):

Mucho Man Randy Passion

Not_Mafia (1): Hu Tao

Skygazer (1): SirCakez
Save The Dragons (1): Jake The Wolfie

Not Voting (2): Skygazer, Save The Dragons

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to secure an execution or 7 votes to secure a no-execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-21 20:03:19).

1.11

Votecount 1.11

shaddowez (3):

Argonauts

, lucca261,

Not_Mafia

Jacob24

(3): JacksonVirgo, Save The Dragons, Skygazer

Invisibility

(2): shaddowez, Black
Black (1):

Roden

Skygazer (1): SirCakez

Argonauts (1): Invisibility

lucca261 (1):

Jacob24

Not_Mafia (1): Hu Tao

Save The Dragons (1): Jake The Wolfie

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to secure an execution or 7 votes to secure a no-execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-21 20:03:19).

1.12

Votecount 1.12

Argonauts (4): Invisibility

, Save The Dragons, Black,

Roden

shaddowez (2): lucca261,

Not_Mafia

Jacob24

(2): JacksonVirgo, Skygazer

Invisibility

(1): shaddowez
Skygazer (1): SirCakez

Not_Mafia (1): Hu Tao

Save The Dragons (1): Jake The Wolfie
Jake The Wolfie (1):

Argonauts

Not Voting (1):

Jacob24

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to secure an execution or 7 votes to secure a no-execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-21 20:03:19).

Hmmmmmm

Jackson is on Jacob's slot the whole time
lucca is on shaddowez the whole time
We're on shaddowez almost the whole time until the wagon dissipates then move to Jake
Jake bounces from Black to shaddowez to Save the Dragons
Black sticks on shaddowez for a while then moves to Invis then us (both town)
Save the Dragons votes nobody until shaddowez wagon has peaked then goes to Jacob then us (both town)
Skygazer votes nobody until shaddowez wagon has peaked then goes to Jacob
Cakez is on us then moves to Skygazer
shaddowez is voting Black then moves to Invis

Considering the wagon on us seems to start out all town, I think actually feel worst about Save the Dragons here. Must be kind of hard for scum to resist nudging along a town-led wagon on town.
Skygazer sitting on the sidelines most of the time isn't great either.
Jake briefly voting shaddowez then getting out quick when N_M joins could be distancing.
Black and shaddowez don't seem terribly likely to be partnered here, seeing as they're voting each other for a good while and then briefly vote Invis together.

I wish there was a scumflip, this would probably be much more informative.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

[...]

<pain>

I'm clueless as to why there's a wagon on me right now.

I realized I forgot to post my weekend V/LA

and

there is no school or work tomorrow, so I'll be back Tuesday

</pain>

Just so you're aware, you may not be alive by tuesday.

This didn't happen, but what would you have made of it if it did?

If you flipped

T

own

: I would be reading deeper into the low-posters and scumreads I have that are on your wagon. It would be the catalyst in my mind to find Lucca/Black/Dragons as wolves and would push them harder than last time [Exception of Dragon, haven't pushed them.] I'd also look a tad more critically at Not_Mafia.

If you flipped

W

olf

: Your wagon wouldn't have been pure. With the amount of ease that an early axe would've had, scum would've definitely been on your wagon to try and gain towncred.

Who

they would have been, I'd have to say the earlier joiners of the wagon (Argon in particular.) [Yes, I am aware that this is yet another way to say "Lucca & Black lol" but I wouldn't be scumreading them as hard.]

If you flipped

N

eutral

: I might have broken at this point. I already have a pet theory on who the SK is, but if you had flipped SK I would probably clear the early joiners and suspected the late arrivals.

Crazy how Jake is wanting to push Black for being on shaddowez on D1, regardless of shaddowez's alignment, and now Jake wants to push Black for

not

being on shaddowez.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Crazy how Jake is wanting to push Black for being on shaddowez on D1, regardless of shaddowez's alignment, and now Jake wants to push Black for not being on shaddowez.

Jake just wants Black out, full stop

Yeah, I noticed.

It's almost as if they are not loyal to the town.

You continually saying this does not make it true.

VOTE: Skygazer
guess we're gonna see how Save the Dragons handles decision-making

[Argonauts]

No.

VOTE: Jake the Wolfie

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

WHY WOULD YOU TARGET THE CLAIMED ASCETIC

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS

-ATALANTA

[Argonauts]

I really hope some townies have some sort of role that can actually help because so far we're all coming up useless/antitown

So anyway, we can leash shaddowez so that vigging him takes out another PoE tonight

This forces scum to block Cakez if they can and the secondary target is scum. Which might mean they allow Jackson to act properly, if he's actually for real

[Argonauts]

VOTE: Skygazer

[Argonauts]

Oh wait im a dumbass, scum can't block me because I'm ascetic!!

Muahahahahahahahahaha all the power is in my hands now!!!

Oh yeah good point

[Argonauts]

4 - Serial Killer Simultaneous Doctor Rolecop Roleblocker
12 - Mafia Informed Roleblocker
15 - Mafia Combined Cop Roleblocker
27 - Mafia Jack-of-all-Trades (Rolestopper, Alien, Messenger)
28 - Town Combined Roleblocker Friendly Neighbor
49 - Werewolf Informed Three-shot Alien
57 -

Mafia Night 1,2,3 JOAT (Cop, Babysitter, Roleblocker, Rolestopper, Rolecop, Hider)

58 - Town Odd-Night Roleblocker
89 - Werewolf 1-Shot Bulletproof Simultaneous Alien Watcher
93 - Mafia Traitor Personal Rolestopper
96 - Serial Killer Jack-of-all-Trades (with Role Cop, Rolestopper, and Traffic Analyst shots)
126 - Even-Night Compulsive Babysitter Odd-Night Jailkeeper Serial Killer

All the roles that can interfere

The colored one is the only one I'd expect to not get used against Jackson again tonight, if he's on the level. So since Cakez can't be blocked I don't see much point in keeping Jackson around either.

So I'm fine with hitting anyone not named lucca or Black. (Obv not Cakez, don't think that even would work)

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

I guess they could block Shaddowez, so he probably shouldn't say who he's targeting

[Argonauts]

I think if Sky and shaddowez are both town then we're just fucked unless some scum fall over in the night too.

And it'd just be a cursed game, with inactive townies galore and roles that only get used to town's detriment.

[Argonauts]

If Shadez is town after the bullshittery that you wagon hoppers did to save him, then we were never going to win in the first place.

Lol what

"How dare you not wagon town"?!?

There is zero attempt to evaluate shaddowez claim from you

In fact, you sound pretty bitter, like someone who thought they had a better position only to suddenly have a threat revealed that derails their plan

[Argonauts]

Hooray, we've graduated to full-fledged miller status, isn't that exciting?

Pretty sure Cakez took out Jackson there, not seeing anything that would indicate suspicion of Black. And my feeling that Jackson was theatering with Jake early in day three is only increased by knowing he was a traitor.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Also, now that the claim supressor hath left us, if any of you have any information for the town at all, I'd suggest you not Save it here, but let it flow freely like gold or milk.

So you have nothing to claim? You're a VT? And the dragons? It's mass claim time.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

2.FINAL

Votecount 2.FINAL

Jacob24 (EXECUTED): Black, Save The Dragons, Roden, Argonauts, lucca261, JacksonVirgo

Not Voting (5): Jake The Wolfie, shaddowez, SirCakez, Jacob24, Skygazer

With 11 players alive, it took 6 votes to secure an execution.

I would also like to point out that Jacob was executed with 2 (probably 3, with Shadez being practically conf!town, 4 if you'd be willing to humor me) town off-wagon. That wagon was hella contaminated lol.

So, Dragons or.......uhh, Dragons.....

You think it is a couple of fire breathers?

-Asclepius

[Argonauts]

Also, now that the claim supressor hath left us, if any of you have any information for the town at all, I'd suggest you not Save it here, but let it flow freely like gold or milk.

So you have nothing to claim? You're a VT? And the dragons? It's mass claim time.

-Atalanta

I do have something to claim, but much like how I supressed what I wanted to say yesterday, I shall supress it here as well until I hear from everyone at the round table.

I'm Savoring the moment, if you will.

you want to claim last?
~o

[Argonauts]

tbh should we decide on claim order?
~o

[Argonauts]

also, expect more activity from this time onwards from me.
~o

[Argonauts]

DE, did you actually read the game?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

How can you have read enough to have had a townread on Black and know that we were voting together but not know Jake's opinion of Black?

...you know what, never mind, why do I even ask? My sanity is too valuable for this.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Aureal are you town?

Is this even a question that needs asking?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Dangit, he's figured it out. Drew, I told you not to wear your cult outfit in public like this!

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

By the way DE, don't think I haven't noticed you putting off claiming in order to read the game first.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Antigon, Argon, and Progon. What are your roles?

i think we've claimed?
but we are backup miller who is now just miller cause cakez is dead.
~o

[Argonauts]

[instagram][/instagram]

Antigon, Argon, and Progon. What are your roles?

i think we've claimed?
but we are backup miller who is now just miller cause cakez is dead.
~o

This brings up a good point - why did you claim when you did?

I originally figured we didn't need to unless a miller flipped. Then Cakez claimed vig and was scumreading us over this post where Orpheus jokingly crumbed backup cop:

black, we meet again.
also, i'll just VOTE: roden
consider this not serious.
k, i'm going to regret this.
unless drew and aureal want it, i'm not going to crumb.
pls tell me if u want me to sign with my username instead.
c u, not a crumb.
~o
(pls, i hope i don't regret this.)

So I went "nope, not gonna get shot by the vig over the silly crumb" and clarified.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Unlike basically everyone else here apparently, I

am

capable of using the role list to figure out what his exact role was. I already mentioned this.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Multiball? C'mon guys, are you trying to fake a townslip?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

DE? He can be a bit flaky, but this is definitely contributing to a sinking read.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Well you're obviously crumbing something about Save the Dragons so I expect you can go ahead with whatever result you have there, and then we can proceed with trying to figure out if it's real or fake or a bus or whatever.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Setup Information

Setup Creation

1. The game is guaranteed to contain:
- 10 players aligned with the

town

- 3 players aligned with an anti-town faction that has an equal chance to be

mafia

or

werewolves

- 1

serial killer

aligned with themself

You mean this??

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Oh boy, another Loyal claim.

@mod: A Loyal action used by a Town player will still succeed on a Miller (barring other interference), correct?

[Argonauts]

It's a little hard for me to believe that Jake can look at Jackson's interactions and decide that his attitude towards me is theater like what he believes to be the case between Jackson and Claptastik. Jackson had long-winded conversations with both Clap and Jake. My attempts to interact with Jackson were met with him totally shooting me down in a way that shows he clearly just wanted to discredit me rather than interact, throughout the game. Like these:

Nor do I agree that thinking it could be best to take out the SK first is a scumtell. Especially when you're just coming out and saying it like that.

How is it not? Is this a cultural difference? The only people who should care about taking out/focusing the SK are the mafia. Town should just be focusing on who is wolfy

Town can win with the SK?!?

-Atalanta

Talk to me when you're not going to be a dick

I'd like to hear more from Jackson on why he decided to target Jacob's slot.

What a silly ass question

Furthermore, Jake seems to be totally overlooking how yesterday I was pressuring both Jackson and Dragons (who is basically confirmed scum from his POV) and it was others like himself who forced it to end in a Skygazer/shaddowez showdown. So I'm not terribly convinced Jake is on the level here, though the earlier crumbing helps a bit with that. I don't particularly need to convince

him

that I'm town here since if he makes it to 3P with me only the presence of a scum roleblocker will allow for him to not know what the solve is.

I haven't town-locked shaddowez yet, though I agree he's the most likely to be town. A good part of it is the claim, and the likely scum-driven wagon on him is also a factor.

Dragons is just the most obvious choice to be scum here, it's hard to see a world where he isn't. shaddowez/lucca where lucca was constantly on shaddowez is pretty lol. lucca/Jake I'd have to look into a little more but both trying to push the same townie yesterday seems a little off. Jake/shaddowez with Jake swinging hard for shaddowez over Sky last day doesn't seem at all likely.

And DE/lucca I've already been eyeing today even though lucca was a townread. I don't know if he's dropped past Jake yet, I'll have to think about that a little more with the new info.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Mafia would know they have a traitor. Mafia knew Jackson was likely their traitor there because only the SK blocking him could realistically explain what he was doing otherwise. (I suppose he could technically have been the SK in their eyes too, but that's such insane play for a 3P that I don't think it's getting seriously considered.) So, good odds they would at least be pretty comfortable with him rather than wanting to push him.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Yeah, that too, thought I had mentioned that but changed my wording and left it out. Also not a high probability occurence.

And if they did happen to block him they would probably estimate the odds of him lying about his role to be much lower than they actually were. And thus likely wouldn't be too keen to push him because they'd expect to be in trouble when Jackson flipped town.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

dragon, can't you just do some isos?
~o

[Argonauts]

a'ight time to claim

i'm a one shot everything bagel. i can target someone and cop them, vig them, doc them, roleblock them, hide behind them, and neighborize them all at the same time.

i targeted cakez and nothing happened

Which post number in the NIM thread is this role? Am I stupid or does this role not actually exist?

i can check.
~o

[Argonauts]

Orpheus exists in his own world, and the dragons are both scum.

VOTE: Save the Dragons

"could you have been roleblocked", lol

[Argonauts]

Talking to Jake like he's town there and trying to sound nice and reasonable

DE not getting an obvious joke claim and trying to look up a

bagel

role

Come on

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

If you don't find it very likely Jake is lying, then as town you would

know

there was a block. Meekly asking if he could have been blocked is totally the wrong mindset. A townie knows he's innocent and is

telling

Jake he got blocked or is lying.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Orpheus exists in his own world, and the dragons are both scum.

VOTE: Save the Dragons

"could you have been roleblocked", lol

Why am I scum

PoE, wagon position, and a lousy start to the day basically

Like, I'm not vibing with the way Jake is acting as if your slot and ours are roughly the same likelihood to be the last mafia, it feels like trying to keep options open rather than sensible. Accusing me of trying to shift to you because of his crumbing is a very messed up way of thinking. There was literally

4

flips to get information from so it'd be weird if suspicions didn't shift at all. Your slot sat on shaddowez, whom Jake now views as clear, for a large part of the game; while I actually pressured and tried to get nearly confScum Dragons and the traitor flipped yesterday. So I sure am not seeing where Jake's head is at, it doesn't feel good faith at all. But given the claim that's a problem I might not even have to deal with tomorrow.

[Argonauts]

Like, Jake is sussing me for reacting to the information in basically the same damn way as him: shaddowez is likely town, Dragons is scum, that leaves DE and Jake (since unlike him I don't have Jake's role PM). It's weeeeeeeird.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

BTW Jake, why did you choose to target Save the Dragons?

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

In a multi-scum ELO they would probably want to coordinate to quickhammer so there's still typically room for slight doubt when pairs of people aren't posting right at the same time. Some scum partners might need significant time to be able to coordinate a time to be around together. Or if that's too hard they could just meander in and drop a vote whenever like you're doing, and hope it doesn't spook the town into unvoting in the meantime.

-Atalanta

[Argonauts]

Jake, you are totally unhelpful.

-Atalanta