Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Yuuka Kazami]

Though maybe not, it kind of depends about how you think about people in general.

Rando on the street giving an opinion without understanding the first thing about it? Absolutely.

Replacement with a hero complex? I mean, you wanna look cool right, look professional, like you know what you’re doing. Ehhh I guess the the tone is right for looking cool, but. The opinion isn’t.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Why did you think unnatural was short for lie?

[Yuuka Kazami]

If you’re town then yeah, one active scum minimum. I believe you posted a post at me recently about how you felt about those kind of arguments though.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Also. I’m going out with friends I’ll be out all day.

To say I am sorry is a massive understatement.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I’m proud at myself for immediately antagonizing a replacement In melo, it’s brilliant play for my playstyle and if I were scum.

(Thank god Aya is town here, though, I still wonder if I’m going to be panic posting 500 posts with a massive Aya case drop).

Sorry, self aware wry observation. It’s just not a good idea to poke at your identity unless my goal is to piss you off.but I just can’t help myself.

[Yuuka Kazami]

You weren’t expecting to get main read after 800 posts? By a replace in?

Not within my first 20 posts no

The nuance there.

[Yuuka Kazami]

But yeah, true, unless you’re doing it on purpose to get identified that’s very fast.

[Yuuka Kazami]

It’s about where your focus is.
You prefaced your post with I wasn’t looking or expecting to find a main through meta, you then used it to say oh, this player is super good scum, I shall share this with the world. But not make any real decisions with it. You can’t even, as you say, talk about it, which puts you in a place of basically not saying anything while saying something.

You just can’t advance along those lines, I also don’t know why you commented on Kaguya specifically when there are much easier players to identify some outright used their mains and revealed them as a strategy. But you did not mention, Larvae for example.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Make no mistake, my notes are full of meta spec, but I kept it out of the game because *you can’t talk about it* but you did talk about it and then can’t proceed further and you can’t talk about it.

…I really should actually try and connect the dots since it might help me read Kahuya and then not say anything about it.

After friend drive. So, 7-8 hours. Bleh.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Further than all that, I can see how the dynamic is shaping up, I can see how both of you are reacting to my posting and that gives me more data to work with and it's kind of exactly what I'd expect if I'm the necessary miselim for scum here. Maybe that's a bit too much of a martyr complex and Kagerou hasn't posted, but more or less when I replace into a slot like this I expect to get jumped on by scum because they're looking to suffocate me and don't want me posting my way out of the hole I'm in

Context. You’re a replacement. With a slot that didn’t talk much after day 1. I also have a habit of pressuring replacements fairly hard just because I hope to crack them. I rarely do, but hope springs eternal!

[Yuuka Kazami]

I did the same thing with Kagerou,
And after you catch up I don’t think you’ll be able to believably come up with a kaguya/Yuuka scum team.

[Yuuka Kazami]

You..don’t see how knowing the main of someone who flipped scum might be helpful in figuring out their weaknesses in regards to associative tells?

[Yuuka Kazami]

@Reisen, that makes sense given 2/3 players talking to you are scum. When you discount Aya. But I find the general idea that the other town from your point of view would sit back and just not try to strangle you in the crib to be kind of, well, a poor generalization. Town is not more likely to be right or wrong, less or more aggressive. But, theory. Bleh.

Aight friend time.

Good luck you guys.

Be back in like 6-8 hours.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Why did you think unnatural was short for lie?

I also thought you were saying Reisen was lying there

But y tho.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Long line is long.
I meant using your understanding of a player to make a read, meta, not “I shall identify their main and then go read up on their games” meta.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Reading up on their games on a guess is fairly insane, to the point of feeling like scum busy work.
I imagine some might tho. I don’t think anyone did this game.

Irrelevant. Focus. Me.

[Yuuka Kazami]

You..don’t see how knowing the main of someone who flipped scum might be helpful in figuring out their weaknesses in regards to associative tells?

No what I mean is I don't expect how or why you'd expect me to recognize that? Especially when I'm only reading maybe half their posts?

Because they didn’t try to hide who they were through a gimmick or a change in posting style. It was, pretty much, intentional.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Long line is long.
I meant using your understanding of a player to make a read, meta, not “I shall identify their main and then go read up on their games” meta.

The only person I recognised is Clownpiece V2

Bullshit. <3.

[Yuuka Kazami]

It's true!

Are you joking or are you seriously saying that the only player you think you know the main of is clown piece V2?

[Yuuka Kazami]

Are you certain they even correctly identified you.

I can tell which posts triggered the recognition based off of the quote numbers in between and they're correctly calling me out as someone that'd bus on d1 in a way that'd make it hard to clear Kagerou from their perspective. They know who I am

I went back because I figured you were talking about some quotes Reisen posted that I had missed, but nope. None indicate they have much of an opinion on you besides they think they know who your main is. You are saying that, based on your estimate of where their reread, that you predict they found the posts that you personally find to be characteristic of your main. that they didn’t post or point to. *psyduck*

[Yuuka Kazami]

That’s borderline fortune telling. You’ve made at least 2 or 3 assumptions about how they got there.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Like this isn't working for me at least, I need to talk to the other two to get a baseline

Yuuka: new baseline. I think like 65+%ish of my townread on you comes from just existing more compared to Reisen/Kagerou. New Reisen I want to kill more than before but there's a level of OMGUS there that I'm gonna need to sort out

Why do you want to kill new Reisen more than old Reisen?

Are you gunna sort that out

[Yuuka Kazami]

Where’s she calling out your max scum range?
They said you were good scum but I don’t remember them saying you had a maximum scum range you exceeded it, I just remember that *you* said that.

[Yuuka Kazami]

are you caught up Reisen?

[Yuuka Kazami]

That really is the extent of it and no matter how many times I pester them for more they won’t give it to me. :<

Well, except just now. When they kind of threw out a theory on the different types of omgus and yours is bad while I guess mine isn’t bad.

[Yuuka Kazami]

are you caught up Reisen?

No I slacked off today and didn't get anything done. Was planning on getting back to it now.

Okay. If I stop bothering you will that help you do the reading thing. I’m very uninterested in your opinions about how scum would approach a melo situation without having read the game first.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I too love dumb arguments.

But I also like winning. So, I’m just going to leave you alone until you’re done.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Oh, I thought you’d read or respond to the clarifying stuff after 734, but you didn’t.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Hopefully!

[Yuuka Kazami]

It occurs to me that Reisen is indeed aiming for a Kaguya/Yuuka scum team so far. :3

[Yuuka Kazami]

Oh, I thought you’d read or respond to the clarifying stuff after 734, but you didn’t.

I have very little to say about it. Those posts Exist. They give some semblance of an explanation but none that couldn't be manufactured and do not alleviate the feeling of someone throwing words on the page in order to justify a push.

Uh huh. Anything on day one, just about, can be manufactured or just throwing words on a page to justify a push.

[Yuuka Kazami]

If Kagerou lurks to deadline and/or doesn't get replaced I might literally scream

I'm just pretty over this game. I can't find the town in the three. Gun to my head it's Yuuka but I don't know.

You’re right, but like,
Why?

[Yuuka Kazami]

I mean, of all the intentional informed plays by scum this game all of them were done by Kaguya and literally nobody else.

[Yuuka Kazami]

You have the clown piece thing, you have the marisa thing, you have the Reisen defend and the reverse on risen for spell cards. You have the Sanae thing

I mean, I was wrong in a traditional manner, bad reads, bad opinions, bad I guess vibe reading frequencies. But the mech stuff is pretty much the opposite of a traditional Muslim nation.

[Yuuka Kazami]

What the fuck auto correct.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Traditional wrong town.*

[Yuuka Kazami]

Yeah, it is basically a cardinal sin to replace into a game and then say idgaf.
Don’t replace into games if you don’t give a fuck.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I have no idea what to do with that, with Kagerou, I never do, it’s why I tend to just kill them early so I don’t have to be put into this situation.

But replace ins, what can ya do.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Was kagerou ever replaced? Its more that they just... Want to run out the clock.

Yes, old Kagerou was replaced.

[Yuuka Kazami]

*fingers crossed*

[Yuuka Kazami]

I made a post about coordinating with Reisen as a joke but my heart isn’t in it

[Yuuka Kazami]

Like right now?

[Yuuka Kazami]

Got it.
I hope this wasn’t a weird game.

[Yuuka Kazami]

VOTE: Kaguya

[Yuuka Kazami]

VOTE: kaguya

gg i was mafia

Poke*
Don’t do this to my heart.

[Yuuka Kazami]

That’s fine.

Ah, sigh.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Gg. Sorry.

[Yuuka Kazami]

What reaction?

Also, Aya visited my target which means that when Kagerou visited me and stole my flower it did indeed get them watched.

[Yuuka Kazami]

This is me not voting. Yesh.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Gunna wait on Kagerou to get here. Then do what I normally do in elo.

Which is play the game of mafia. This’ll be fun.

[Yuuka Kazami]

As a favor to me Kagerou, Reisen already voted you so I am confirmed not scum. So please, do not vote me.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Yeah, sure Reisen. Do as much as you’d like. I’ll just be over here doing what I can. If you can’t or don’t wanna answer a question feel free just to say no.

I’m at work right now so I’ll be posting a lot more later today.

[Yuuka Kazami]

What reaction?

Also, Aya visited my target which means that when Kagerou visited me and stole my flower it did indeed get them watched.

when i was fake scumclaiming after the hammer

i have no idea what the second sentence means

I made two posts after hammer and nothing about those two posts are unique or particularly townie.

[Yuuka Kazami]

It’s just emotion that could easily be faked, hell, if I were scum I would be incentivized to pretend as hard as I could to pretend to be ignorant about what Kaguya was flipping

[Yuuka Kazami]

replacing into a melo/elo game has the exact opposite feel for me because I tend to see mafia as a puzzle late game. It’s like, my favorite part of mafia. It’s like skipping straight to dessert for me.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Yeah, okay. Kind of thought I’d come back to a dead room. XD.

So, I’m going to start throwing posts out there, these are open questions and you can respond to anything I mention in it.

Since activity has been less than ideal I won’t really hide which way I’m leaning like I usually would. Initially

Right now, I’m mildly confident it’s Reisen.
There are some sticking points. Mostly a sticking point in regards to Kaguya’s informed position that reisen didn’t have a role block and how weird that is for a scum partner to do and the kind of “they’re super obviously trying to attach themselves to Reisen” the counter point to that one though is that they reciprocated, Reisen was simply weird around Kaguya. It wasn’t just Kaguya being weird about Reisen. Reisen focusing on reading Kagerou without even acknowledging my concerns about them being a team is…a very strange thing for town to ignore.

It’s even generational because Reisen 2 got here and basically did the same thing. They made a case with reasons for town Kagerou and then proceeded to say “I think I know who Kaguya’s main is you guys!” And that isn’t remotely equivalent is it?

[Yuuka Kazami]

I am conflicted if Kaguya was trying so hard yesterday to clinch the win because they were worried it was a house of cards that would collapse if they didn’t win now, or if their entire play yesterday was a house of cards. I’m supposed to trip over as planned.

That’s where the problem with Reisen 1 and Reisen 2 acting equally weird around Kaguya comes into play. It weakens that Kaguya was planning in the long term.

Reisen is likely just a weaker scum partner and Kaguya knew that. So it was yesterday or never.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I would appreciate if you both could find time to case each other or show me what posts or actions point to good evidence the other is scum.

I could, and usually do, miss stuff.
Though, I don’t lose much at this stage of the game.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Yes, mafia’s win condition yesterday was to kill Kagerou.

[Yuuka Kazami]

What reaction?

Also, Aya visited my target which means that when Kagerou visited me and stole my flower it did indeed get them watched.

when i was fake scumclaiming after the hammer

i have no idea what the second sentence means

I made two posts after hammer and nothing about those two posts are unique or particularly townie.

Three actually. Not that it makes much difference. You're right that there wasn't a lot to it. But I guessed that it was real and not faked.

You guessed it was real and not faked in the same breath that you were saying that you hesitated to step out of line with Aya because this isn’t your game.

How do you think Aya would feel about you voting a player out the gate in elo based on three generic posts?

[Yuuka Kazami]

Okay, if you don’t want to try that is your prerogative.

I’m not interested in forcing you to play mafia unless it involves some guarantee I’ll listen. If affirmation is what you want out of mafia instead of getting it right for the sake of getting it right: Or winning for the sake of winning. That’s cool.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Yes, mafia’s win condition yesterday was to kill Kagerou.

was kaguya pushing that?

Yes.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Unfortunate.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Okay. Thanks.
It's unfortunate that you won't point out where and how Kagerou is scum. Usually that's the fun part.
I have no clue why you play mafia.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Hmm. Yeah, you did spend almost your entire replace in town casing Kagerou, getting ready to scum case me and just said Kaguya is good scum which is neither here nor there.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Question for you reisen, if you were scum would you lurk out in melo to win a game?

[Yuuka Kazami]

I have to solve the game whether you want to solve it or not. If you don't want to cooperate, what am I to do besides say, "okay, you may sit in the corner"?

I'm not insulting you, I just don't understand where your emotional head is at.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Games of mafia can always be pointless, there's no guarantee that you'll win or be able to persuade someone, that's part of the challenge of the game.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I know, but Kaguya also did PoE and usually, while I PoE my own perspective tends to flip as the game gets closer to the end.

I start with PoE and then gradually I go to traditional scum hunting and not town hunting, so it kind of confuses me when someone starts trying to use PoE in melo. I'm not sure if it's unnatural or if people naturally tend to play how I play near the end.

I won't know.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I think from my perspective, it's simply odd to identify someone as a strong scum and just leave it there without looking at them at all further than that. There just aren't many players left in the game for that sort of side blindness.

Kagerou, in their way, looked at everyone and Aya certainly did, though they didn't show it.
In contrast you and Kaguya didn't seem to do so. I never really got why neither you nor your predecessor poked at them for their lack of suspicion or paranoia.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I have to solve the game whether you want to solve it or not. If you don't want to cooperate, what am I to do besides say, "okay, you may sit in the corner"?

I'm not insulting you, I just don't understand where your emotional head is at.

if you told me to sit in the corner i wouldn't have a problem but stuff like "I don't know why you play mafia" is needlessly snide

Yeah, I just am not sure if you're posturing/trying to take on an unconcerned affect. I don't see what it gains you to do so.

Uh, my definition of snide on wiki is saying that it means false or deceitful. So I think you mean another word, since, yeah, I don't know why you play mafia. Sometimes I can lack nuance or appreciate that questioning someone can come off as disrespectful depending on what the question is. It's usually best to look for sarcasm in my posts, and if there doesn't seem to be any, read it like someone who lacks abstract thinking. Concrete thinking.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I actually can't remember you placing any suspicion on them at all beyond the "they could be scum, caution everyone" thing.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I have to solve the game whether you want to solve it or not. If you don't want to cooperate, what am I to do besides say, "okay, you may sit in the corner"?

I'm not insulting you, I just don't understand where your emotional head is at.

if you told me to sit in the corner i wouldn't have a problem but stuff like "I don't know why you play mafia" is needlessly snide

They are? Huh. It's funny that most of Kaguya's marks against them fell into the "They would do this as scum, but probably not as town" that sort of informed/alignment related play. It's classic play, I guess is how it feels.

You can see classic town play as well. in how Aya approached last day phase. Essentially taking their time and doing their diligence. Far past the point where scum would. As you pointed out, Kaguya was trying to speed the game along.

It's just awkward for you here, because they were specifically trying to speed the game along to kill Kagerou. Ticking clocks are a scum's tool and it appeared to be one they favored because of how they handled Marisa.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Ah, context since you probably didn't read what happened with Marisa. 2 day phases ago Marisa used a multi vote ability, but claimed that I was scum if I didn't receive a message I was blocked by her. She had an ability that blocked anyone who had a spell card.
I had said in thread the day before and, honestly you could probably guess before that, that I didn't have a spell card. But Marisa didn't seem to realize that or was doing a reaction test.

Kaguya played it that Marisa simply forgot to use their four votes to kill Reisen and that we had to hurry to capitalize on their unforced error. We killed Marisa before they got back.

Your predecessor asked if they were dead, when they realized they were not they voted Marisa.

Kagerou said they weren't going to do anything until they figured out what their abilities did.

Both responses were pretty weird to me.

[Yuuka Kazami]

So, Kaguya knows how to use time as a weapon of opportunity and they spent most of yesterday trying to hurry things along before Aya was done. Refusing to get lost in the weeds with me. It is interesting that you pointed out that they seemed to be trying to hurry things along. I didn't really get it.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Rather, why you'd point it out, but didn't seem to do anything with it besides, I guess, shade them.

[Yuuka Kazami]

...Why is Dai on the outside for you?

They just aren’t as strong as my other townreads. I’d at least like to think my townreads are right.

Why are you even wishfully thinking about these things.
We can be wrong, most of the time we are, holding on to that isn't advantageous when each day brings new information about someone's alignment that should conceivably lead to greater accuracy an opportunity to see the game more clearly etc etc.
Albeit you can also be lead astray, this day phase is especially vulnerable to that sort of maneuvering i think.

Well when I think of what scum needs to do post day 1, and this is going to sound completely biased because it’s the opposite of what I’ve been doing, is pick up the pace.

I don’t doubt that Larva was the designated deep wolf considering their position after day 1 and that suggests the other two were in worse positions. Day 2 scums deep wolf flips and I would imagine the remaining partners need to scramble to improve their position. Do I think that needs to be an immediate push? No but day 2 onward that is moved up on the agenda scum had previously.

You and kaguya fit that bill as slots that have had the perception of them improve gamewide over the last two days. Compared to kagerou or Marisa whose standing has either worsened or remained steady.

Err I’m questioning if that’s even a valid way to go about reading you, as a duo not a pair. Because I feel like I’m attributing the scum behavior of one onto whichever is town between you. Since you’re both showing similars signs they’re either not scummy or the town there is playing towards a scum goal.

I guess I am indeed in kill one of Reisen/Kagerou and try to extract the truth from what Marisa claims. Or they make it easy by claiming a guilty equivalent on me like I asked if they're scum.

Day copped you and it’s red!

Kagerou not to pull you off the dai/yuuka team but what do you think about kaguya?

Kaguya, did yuuka/dai’s timing on when dai came back to thread not bother you at all?

I’ve been mulling over it for awhile now.

Evens/odds is only like a marginal advantage/disadvantage. And probably wouldn’t be my main concern.

Even/odds is the difference between having 1 conftown in 5p and having 0 conftown in 5p

That’s what marginal means yes.

Dai came back after yuuka publicly voiced concern about who clownpiece was in the hood with. Dai came back like immediately after.

What's your point?

I was curious why it never even crossed your mind as suspicious.

Yuuka makes the public realization that the clownpiece hood is unclaimed, dai pops back in with the knowledge you were in the hood with clown and drops a vote. It would be suspicious if I were you. It doesn’t involve me and I made note of it timing wise.

I guess I could have coordinated with them.
But then I spent hours faking ignorance when apparently, I knew the whole time what they were discussing and what their roles were.
That would be hard to fake and come off as unnatural.
If you think how I was posting was unnatural there, I'd be pretty surprised.

That’s fair.

So this is the crossroads I’m at. Dai is still on the outside of my townreads.

I’m not too invested in yuuka/dai

I think kaguyas behavior comes off scummy, but a S/S hood with dai also doesn’t make sense to me. Not to mention they could just not mention the hood at all if so.

Yuuka makes the public realization that the clownpiece hood is unclaimed, dai pops back in with the knowledge you were in the hood with clown and drops a vote. It would be suspicious if I were you. It doesn’t involve me and I made note of it timing wise.

Still not getting why this is suspicious, do you think other people weren't having the realization of "everyone checked in and no one has claimed the hood -> either Dai or scum were in the hood" just without posting it?

Idk maybe it’s just we have different styles. There’s a bigger thing that I can’t wrap my head around and it’s your handling of dai. I can’t imagine you were that sure of dai!town when this plan was being made if you were willing to omit or withhold info between the hoods. But things like not being put off by the yuuka/dai timing comes off like you were already in the town!dai camp.

So it doesn’t line up to me, I can’t get behind the thinking.

So I have 2 pieces of information, kind of. Kaguya targeted themselves last night. Doesn’t make them not!scum it just makes them not the one performing nightkills.

This also means either scum can’t roleblock anymore OR kaguya is the roleblocker and blocked themselves.

I haven’t looked back on the claims list but I think it can be narrowed down since multiple spell cards can’t be used the same night. Actives can be used with spell cards though.

Mech mommy tell me what it means.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Yuuka this isn’t working I’m just townreading kagerou more.

Reisen why am I scum?

I think you’re moving too sly for town. Even your analogy for playing chess here, it just really fits your M.O.

I had issue with you playing positionally before and it hasn’t changed now that you’re openly admitting to playing positionally.

I think you’re moving with intention in a non town way. Things like treating yuuka as town in your actions (specifically the yuuka callout, dai response/revive) while saying things like you’re evaluating them or calling them scum mechanically.

Things like skating around me because I feel like you will absolutely need my vote in an eLo situation but you can still pivot out if like, another town gives you enough leeway.

Dunno enough about make to make a claim of manipulation but would also fit the M.O.

[Yuuka Kazami]

the challenge there is simply that kaguya was given a lot of lee-way to kill Reisen, but never took the opportunity.

By the way, both Larvae and Kaguya tried to kill Kagerou.

[Yuuka Kazami]

This is also something Kaguya said they were going to look into, in regards to Larvae trying to kill kagerou, but never did.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Gunna take a short break to reset and then try this again.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Okay here is my base thought right now.

I never wanna kill Yuuka.

I always think Reisen is scum.

And I'm deciding wherher I want to murder Kaguya or Kagerou, or if I just cop out and murder the caught scum and let y'all decide what to do about that tomorrow.

lol

I am checking for that world too tbh Yuuka.

The good news Kaguya is that at least for today no one has to find anyone. Townies follow my vote.

TOMORROW sucks more. Much more.

Reisen can you elaborate on your 'ew' pile? Our reads seem to align in that regard but i want to know why you feel that way

This is a partner talking to another partner.

I do agree on your reasons to townread Ichirin, and like, i think sie's barely above >rand for flipping scum, but i was thinking about who else i was voting if not hir and i kinda blanked on names, don't get me wrong i have scumreads, i'm just not getting them killed

i'm also more comfortable killing a role we know is at worse low utility anyways rather than outing more claims, we already have 3 roles out

hmmmmmmm this is fair

which annoys me

please start answering me with generically scummy responses so my confidence is not shaken

... This is not how scum buddies talk to each other. It sings of scum approaching a townie while trying to kill them but trying to appear impartial.

My read rn is Eternity really wanted Kagerou dead and Koishi dead but not Reisen even though Reisen was scummy to them a lot of the time..
The issue for me in saying the team is Reisen Kagerou is Larvae would need to bus Kagerou and leave Reisen who should probably be on their kill list at some point. Was day 1 Larvae really setting up to be the only scum alive?

Does Kagerou really claim their vig prior to shooting it as scum instead of just shooting and claiming if they are caught?

i am caught up

and demoralized that both of my major scum reads this day phase have claimed their roles and handled them in fairly towny ways from what i can tell?

which i know i shouldn’t put much stock into but they both successfully made me question myself to the point where my confidence is now shot!

Koishi did seem to claim and kinda bounce and began contributing less after doing so? i believe she mentioned being sick over the weekend but now that the cat’s out of the bag i don’t understand the purpose of still not actively scumhunting or applying pressure anywhere when she has seemingly now decided who she’s targeting tonight

i don’t know how to feel about so many people saying they would settle with a Koishi elimination but not doing anything about it though

still not thrilled with an Ichirin elimination but don’t want to be that guy that yells at people voting there without having a great alternative so close to deadline

i acknowledge this post says a whole lot of nothing but that’s just…where i’m at currently

i agree with i think Dai who said that pivoting to a lurker slot is not appealing to me either as it feels like a waste of the day’s efforts and is mostly a shot in the dark (speaking mostly about Aya here)

i should be pretty available for the remainder of the day phase to help ensure an elimination is ultimately pushed through and to engage if people wanna say words to me

What part of this posting makes anyone here reading think they aren't giving the straight dope here?

Like this does not read like a scum buddy who knew Kagerou would claim. This reads like genuine frustration that the correct play is always to let a vig shoot and fear of being the one shot when they are in a good spot.

I'm ready to call Kagerou lock town tbh.

Sanae specifically has dropped in my reads because i have not been super impressed with her recent content and she feels like she’s going through the motions to just get to the end of the day. i’ve been growing increasingly uncertain too so it’s not super egregious or anything, i’m just squinting at her posts more and more as the day goes on

Marisa’s drop in content is understandable due to the extended V/LA but any goodwill she built early on isn’t really enough to maintain my townread, especially now that my scum reads aren’t as solid

And the pivot onto Sanae because Ichirin is a LHF who can die anytime indicates that Larvae's goal for the day was keeping Ichirin alive to use for later but not to Bus.

Okay. My new reads are Kagerou town Reisen scum.

If I still trust my gut on Yuuka town that makes Kaguya scum.

I am far more confident in Reisen scum than Kaguya scum but I worry if I kill Reisen today Kagerou will die tomorrow. I am utterly convinced Kagerou is town. Beyond all doubt.

I need to reread Yuuka and Kaguya and decide if I'm wrong on Yuuka.

Here is a question: if Kaguya was in CP neighbourhood N2 and had a doctor why didn't Kaguya protect CP?

At this point Kaguya, you should be more focused on breaking my chain of logic about Kagerou town if you disagree with me there because what I'm seeing from Larvae's ISO indicates Kagerou town.

Ah, crap, I actually do need both of you to talk and try.

Kaguya ignoring me is one thing, but the problem, is that they also ignored and excused themselves from answering Aya's question about why Kagerou was actually scum after town binning them.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Then again, there's no way of knowing whether that's because they were hoping Aya continued making the mistake of town reading Kagerou or whether they were just trying to prevent Aya from killing their partner and their whole game unraveling.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I do want another player's perspective on what Larvae was trying to say on 2420.
I honestly just can't see them dropping that as a red herring for later.
It's too creative, and as mentioned, they don't seem super creative when they're scum.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Aya's posting up a storm in that dead thread.


fffffffuuuuu

never going to live this down if I fuck up here.

[Yuuka Kazami]

There's just an almost hilarious amount of evidence that points toward Reisen. The unwillingness to engage with each other while shading each other is totally mutual and neither calls the other out on it, ever.

[Yuuka Kazami]

It's like scum hunting 101.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Hello frens !

Gotta admit, i did NOT understeand that part of my role worked like that

What's this mean?

[Yuuka Kazami]

i'm currently getting townvibes from Clownpiece, Yuuka, and Ichirin

i think Tenshi's posts surrounding the account name vs. role name discussion sound a little awkward, feels like she's jumping at the chance to talk about something to seem like she's contributing without really saying anything

i also don't really like Daiyousei's entrance but she defended my honor so she gets a free pass for the first ten pages

What's so bad about Daiyousei's entrance? Apart from the fact that she called me a Youkai when i'm actually a Werewolf

Is this too early?
I mean, for this kind of defense. It usually comes in later.

[Yuuka Kazami]

it's a gut thing, nothing specific. i think my lack of flavor knowledge is contributing to my dislike of that post more than anything

and i never trust anyone who looks like they're having fun when playing mafia

what do you think of Yenshi?

#43: this feels kind of like a back off from Kagerou questioning them. They try to paint it as a problem they're having, that they expand on later in relation to the set up. But I don't think they liked that Kagerou questioned them.

It's possible that they just spoke that way to them to avoid further interaction with them because they're partners and they're uncomfortable. I'm not sure.

[Yuuka Kazami]

it's a gut thing, nothing specific. i think my lack of flavor knowledge is contributing to my dislike of that post more than anything

and i never trust anyone who looks like they're having fun when playing mafia

what do you think of Yenshi?

Dai just seems like they wanna have fun yeah, NAI

Tenshi's post kinda didn't make me feel anything but i understeand where you're coming from, not really keen on joining the wagon

Dai just seems like they wanna have fun yeah, NAI

Agreed, Dai seems to be fitting the mold of a very big touhou fan roleplaying as Daiyousei which given the fairy-type speech is probably throwing Larva off

#48: Well, Kagerou got back to them. Not really keen on joining the wagon. Not sure if that's a positional thing or just their typical posture or if their posture, that is typical to their town mindset they decided to stay off. It is, at the least, a clear directional point. But that's more good behavior than actually townie.

49# Comes in with a patented Kaguya post. I'm not sure if they're buddying Kagerou here by affirming them, though, they do the skinner's box method. Or if they're just trying to get in their requisite number of interaction posts with their partners.

52 They drop it and focus on my claim.
53 Larvae takes opposite position. More talking. Hmm, hard to know if they coordinated these stances first or not.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Feel free to pipe in at any time for your opinions you two.
This isn't sarcasm, you're welcome to join me and try to solve at anytime if you like.

[Yuuka Kazami]

#51 Doesn't really take a tack to be honest. They're not all serious here, they're not all jokey either. It's not very rigid, though, the lining might be. From a different perspective it's a gimme though, basically lamist, get back to the solving mines peons.

Then again, multiple players have done that more than there are scum so like.
eh.

[Yuuka Kazami]

What does everyone think about Yuuka's claim? I'm kinda on the side of thinking it's more likely to be a scum role

i feel the opposite

what makes you think that claim comes from scum?

It's just too on the nose to be a credible miller-type basically? Like,

no one is gonna belive that's an actual real result

, and as such it kinda defeats the purpose to give it to town. Of course i'm getting into modWIFOM territory here but at the very least i disagree that it's clearing her in any way

ofc flavor reasons probably mean the claim is true, but it doesn't indicate it's town

They seem to genuinely believe this, what's odd is that their interactions with me don't harbor much suspicion.


57 into

58 is clever. It makes it look like they're solving together and trying to figure out problems that come up organically.
The buddying angle remains a viable possibility and this post slightly reinforces it. Because Kaguya is helping Kagerou out by following their line of inquiry. I'm not used to scum partners doing this. But, to be honest. I do think this scum team had 2 good players. Which is pretty lucky usually there's only one. Albeit, I don't think Larvae thinks of themselves as good scum. But hey, you did good here! I still have no idea why Aya thought you were scum.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I lost some confidence at my association reading game due to the Sanae fuck up.
But I don't know how else to solve in elo and it has worked for me.
gunna keep on keepin' on.
Just need to be cautious.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Reisen, did you read my fake scum claim when the Marisa flip happened?
It was pretty similar to yours.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I'm in an emergency work project. Be back in a few hours. In the meantime, I am of the opinion to kill Reisen. Sorry my performance could be better.

Got it, Reisen is already voting you.

[Yuuka Kazami]

61 we. Old fashioned way. Buddying minor accomplishment, imprecise wording, faking being successfully buddied? pivot to reset. Makes sense. hmm.

65. Not going to bust your chops but here's me disagreeing with you. Which is basically busting thine chops. Not much motivation for scum to make this post, but it's not like, out there for scum to do either. Scum have opinions too.

83 Rhetoric Kaguya. Informed more than the rest of us, kind of a hint toward their alignment but nothing I'd have spotted or made a big deal out of without knowing what they are now. Very slight + nudge for in that sort of "well, that's convenient!" Tenshi shot.

84 depends on the purpose, but they're a little past the point of value on this point, which I do actually associate with town to an extent. Though, this is a relatively new opinion and not really sure how it performs. Since it's hard to distinguish from scum talking about the weather because they've got nothin' better to do. I think there's more value in it though and it doesn't sound informed either for a caution preach. Like, it could offend their sensibilities to an extent that town are leaning my way on this or they could just be taking a distinct position from their two peers, but once again, doesn't super feel that way.

[Yuuka Kazami]

The Kagerou Townblock Trio :

Marisa / Kaguya / Reisen

i swear i have my reasons

The kaguya thing is earned, the positioning is internally consistent, they're disagreeing with Larvae, so they don't end up in there with them, even though Larvae's opinion really shouldn't affect their read of them given what the discussion is, they do tend to end up lower because of it and you have the Kaguya buddying, so it makes sense that they ended up there. Consistent =! Town though.

[Yuuka Kazami]

The Kagerou Townblock Trio :

Marisa / Kaguya / Reisen

i swear i have my reasons

Hey Kangaroo-Chan, what do you think about Larva-San and Kochiya-Sama? I think they are cute - eek, I mean towny! I want them in my town block!

Larva i'm still neutral on and while Sanae's explainations are pretty good i still think i'm sitting at +scum

Sounds good.

[Yuuka Kazami]

106 Rhetoric. it's one of those embrace the comment and recontextualize/reword it to sound more innocent than the player did. Both alignments do this, it's just a hint they might've worked in customer service/retail at some point in their life.

108 Charisma post. Fishing for likeability. Absence content. But thou shall not always post content.

125: reasonable, inoffensive. Could have taken multiple tacts here, it's caution preaching but it manages not to come off too harsh like they think I'm an idiot. Just more evidence that they've been low on a totem pole at some point, since they know how to protect an ego. EHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

128 Mirroring Marisa's language. sigh, not even going to earn a flag from me. No luck with this tell.

144 my brain is creaking like an old floor board at this post. There's something worth pulling there but I'm not sure what. Just an all town post with all town in it and a shift in position on 2 town toward reading them as town Whether that's because they're trying to be responsive, reward players for posting more and whether they're motivated by fear or some other strategy or merely neutral on where their partners are in the grand scheme of things is *throws up hands*

[Yuuka Kazami]

146 empirically flawed reasoning.Early Miller claims are more often town than not. but ascetics don't have that statistical experience, but they're conflating the two. I find these kinds of posts near impossible to distinguish between personal opinion and alignment, they can be pretty compartmentalized. There's more context here in that their alignment is mutually exclusive with Reisen's.

149. Yeah, sure, cautious approach afraid of triggering omgus but looking for an opportunity to go after them, while simultaneously hoping they don't produce a significant response. Or they're just continuing with the neutrality doctrine they seem to have had/deep wolf game. Doubt they thought much beyond, general relief that things are going well so far.

150 nothing new to say here. scum post from coast to coast.

153 Town and scum posture like this. Hard to know the difference. This one I lean scum on, because it seems less designed to pressure and more to be taken seriously to redirect the game into an RVS in a kind of subtly scummy way. Not a game changing observation though.

156 not totally sure what they're trying to do here.

[Yuuka Kazami]

What does everyone think about Yuuka's claim? I'm kinda on the side of thinking it's more likely to be a scum role

I lean town on the role itself. I would be very mad at the mod if I was actually scum with that role lol.

If the mod gave scum!me this role i would kiss him on the mouth

This is also posturing but it sounds genuine to me.

[Yuuka Kazami]

@Kagerou is your Clownpiece vote a remnant of RVS and if not, can you go into why you're still voting there?

my clownpiece vote has been serious from the beginning

can you explain why?

i'd rather keep it vague for now but on top of not looking like they're solving (which granted maybe that's just how i view things) they've been trying to distract people from pushing fowards the game

@Kagerou is your Clownpiece vote a remnant of RVS and if not, can you go into why you're still voting there?

my clownpiece vote has been serious from the beginning

can you explain why?

i'd rather keep it vague for now but on top of not looking like they're solving (which granted maybe that's just how i view things) they've been trying to distract people from pushing fowards the game

i mean i would argue that at the time of Clownpiece's entrance they were the first one to actually do something ~spicy and give people in the game something to talk about (outside of the miller claim, in which the majority of the discussion came later)

that may be an overly generous interpretation of their early posts and i'm nowhere near married to that townread but based on that i am struggling to buy that this was your initial reason for voting when i viewed it in the exact opposite way

i've disagreed with a lot of your takes so far so while i will respect you keeping the reasons vague for now i'm hoping you'll be able to fully elaborate at some point so i can actually parse if there's something more to that or if it's merely a playstyle difference

This post is a set back for any kind of Kagerou scum read. This really doesn't sound like partners talking to each other. It's consistent in trying to get Kagerou to trip up, the whole approach makes sense for SVT, but very little as SVS.

[Yuuka Kazami]

173 placation. Anti-associative overall.

180 Sure. I'm town reading all the town, but I'm not going to town read Kagerou who is the exception and my scum buddy and not their miselim. Deep wolf plan d1. That's a bit too confident.

210 also sounds genuine. What's the point of holding out hope on someone that you can pivot to whenever.
Reisen's absence is felt around this point in my catch up. But this is unique to each player.

228 and here we are.

273 Could be informed. I don't know why it sounds genuine. It's likely they've had the experience as either alignment.

295 Larvae unceremoniously omits suspicion of Kagerou and shifts to Dai and koishi. Probably influenced by Marisa's stance not sure why they decided to go along with it instead of arguing against them. Might have been fear of being called out, but being unwilling to close off that avenue. Since there was attention there. Or hey, Marisa is pushing for a town interpretation of Kagerou, better not argue, I should let town make a mistake here.

[Yuuka Kazami]

295 is also informed.
296 very mean.
303 3 players. Second time. Maybe too self-conscious, but they're just self-conscious in general. Pushing on clown again, but not much heat in it from my perspective, they basically said they just don't have a lot of confidence in their reads hence why there may be a lack of alarmism in their concern post. Or just not a lot of motivation to move the blocks around right now. Well their reason is at least checking but it's day 1, so strong isn't really a part of it.
304 3 players. Sure, let's narrow the pool. Kagerou's not in there. But neither is kaguya. Or Reisen.
308 Bleh!
309 Oh hey Reisen's back. Nothing post. Contradiction compared to entrance. Contradiction's not a scum tell. But... eh.
310 Remarkable in its emptiness.
311 the fuck is Larvae ignoring Reisen returning for? not even a soft ball to get some back and forth going?
312 Reisen,if scum, listed out all town in this post and omitted both Larvae and Kaguya. If they're town, they town read Kagerou by mistake and a lot of town in there too. I wonder about this post. It's a little unusual.
313 Cheerful tone.
314 Weird. Might make the scum team sweat. It's not great that they chose to approach their suspicion of Kagerou this way, assuming that's what they were doing.
318 strangely worded. Based on their reads they should be suspicious of Larvae and it makes sense why they would want Larvae to post more, but they don't really say it in this post. In can even be interpreted as trying a corrective approach toward Larvae's reads rather than suspicion. Having it both ways hasn't really been a thing this game.
319 Okay(?). Weird response. No questions in return.
320 does not acknowledge Larvae.
321 perspective sharing like they're talking to a peer. There doesn't seem like much of a goal in the post itself.
322 Oh hey, they remembered to ask them questions. Good for them. Strangely late.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Oh. Okay, I'll try to narrow down my concerns once I review and then send them your way.
In like,
one post.

[Yuuka Kazami]

See you in 3 days!

[Yuuka Kazami]

Yuuka, while I appreciate direct opinions with citations as solving, it's not useful for me to assess what your concerns are. I'd like to be efficient with my time and not waste it on irrelevant things. I spend a lot of time filtering evidence on what I think is relevant but ultimately you're the judge with that decision.

Can you point to any posts that you think demonstrate that Reisen is scum. Or any posts that you've made that demonstrate you are town?

@Reisen, same question.

[Yuuka Kazami]

329 ew. Thought and reevaluation huh. They just do that a lot.
344 that sure is a naked vote.
378 A good tack.
381 nothing special.
382 "Hey, Kagerou wouldn't it be funny if you pretended you didn't know who was in each neighborhood, when clearly as scum you would never make that mistake?, Haha, yeah sure, let's do that" Or: I'm just not partners with Kaguya. Or, or: I'm just not that in the game and misspoke while being buddies.
384 an interesting theory for someone who is seeking to explain a phenomena after a scum buddy makes a mistake.
385 *golf clap* 10/10 reads. No notes.
386 more oasis posts in a grim dark world.
387 Joke post.
388 "

Kaguya

,

Reisen

, and Aya are slots i feel nothing about and will be one of my focuses upon reread.

i will say i had even had some townpings from Reisen

and Aya but nothing strong enough in either direction to make me commit"
My only fairly solid scum read at this point is Kagerou and even that's pretty...loose? there are some posts that made me feel good on a tone level but i agree with Dai about the bulk of the ISO is pretty fluffy and i see Kagerou has over fifty posts but their actual impact this game does not at all correlate with what i expect based on their high level of activity
Larvae:

"from what i can tell there also hasn't been much in terms of reads outside of the Clownpiece scum read (i now see the reads list provided with some interesting takes that i will look into more when i return) which she pretty much refused to elaborate on, and the reasoning she did provide also never sat well with me to begin with and came from the first page. it's difficult for me to buy that into the fact that her opinion on Clownpiece has not changed or evolved since the beginning of the game, especially since Clownpiece is my largest town read, which leads me to believe she is just holding onto it because she needs a strong opinion that goes against the grain

those are all my thoughts for now, please feel free to poke at or ask questions about anything. i am thinking this will be a game where i focus on identifying and locking in town reads and just pushing to eliminate within 'what's left' then they voted Kagerou"

[Yuuka Kazami]

404 Unlike the Kagerou neighborhood thing, this one isn't alignment indicative.
408 Seen it
409 Done this before.
410 Seen it
411 Done this before.

[Yuuka Kazami]

426 Hmm. I'm not sure but it's kind of like watching a teacher tell bobby in class that they really seemed to have a great method and style of writing. Nevertheless there were not, in fact, Ninjas during the American civil war. C+ Keep it up.

[Yuuka Kazami]

[post ]687[/post]'s kind of a waste of time. The interactions between 400 and up to here aren't really pinging me either way. Kagerou's posts are a bit more stale and there are some weak ones in there.
689 Sure~
723 could be informed. Tasting the air.
733 I mean, it's pressuring a low activity slot. It's something to do, it's not necessarily productive or unproductive. Kind of depends on their preferences.
762 Maybe a perspective slip. probably not.
816 Shade toward Reisen, very late and light. Not really sure if this is scum saying, "It's not fair, they haven't done anything and they're town read!" or they're just softly shading a low-activity buddy without really getting there. It wouldn't be a super good time to push them at the moment, I think from a politics perspective.
826 Oh? They braved the politics, good for them. Ah. I need to quote normally here.

[Yuuka Kazami]

i am still not townreading Kagerou, but my hang up echoes the sentiments shared by several others that i don't see why they'd be so purposefully difficult/contrary as scum here

i sense that Kagerou has the charisma and ability to be more agreeable in a natural way as scum and have avoided placing themselves in the limelight so early. i'm not sensing any attempt at utilizing these skills to manipulate or gain an upper hand in this situation. i am also getting townpings from their posts referencing being happy with their contributions to the gamestate in response myself and others going after their fluffy ISO

i think writing this post has me slightly SLIGHTLY leaning town there after all? but slight town leans are basically scum leans this game so not much has changed i guess

Fence sitting.

@Kagerou, your largest scum read, Clownpiece, is basically a universal town read at this point. do you find this problematic in any way? is there a reason you're not fighting harder to get people to see what you're seeing?

Blood pressure is up.
Weird combination of posts, bunch of justification for a Kagerou town read and they don't say anything about Reisen.

[Yuuka Kazami]

857: Shade at Marisa for Reisen read. Unnatural jump for someone that just decided that Reisen is scum, to start creating these associations here is odd. They give Kaguya town points for pushing at Marisa. It gives them some level of room to jump off, but the post kind of reads like Reisen is scum, it's a foregone conclusion whenever that happens, here's a post I can leave for posterity if Reisen ever dies to explain my sticking point with going after Kaguya. Here's me setting up Marisa as the miselim after a Reisen flip given they're the most likely to die.

Yeah, that makes sense I think.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Shit, there are just so many posts, where the ultimate takeaway is that Kagerou's town.
I'm genuinely getting paranoid that it's too easy.

[Yuuka Kazami]

914 "good point" what, do you want me to do something with that? No thanks.
930 They're still running away with this inexplicably.
988 reisen seems to be implying that their scum team read here is Kagerou, Kaguya, Larvae. It's too accurate given their thinking for that to be a reasonable assessment. ...Or maybe I'm just jealous they found the scum team and seemed to be flirting with it for a while and Kaguya and Larvae are reacting to that. While Kagerou is taking the opposite tack. It does kind of feel like Kagerou, Kaguya and Larvae, are always taking slightly different positions on any one topic. Larvae comes at them pretty head on, I'm sure if they're trying to shake them or merely create the set up. It could be, simply that Reisen, as newer scum is playing too informed.
Kind of fits that scum tell I mentioned, the general post reasonign being applied to Kagerou's post that Kaguya asked me about later. It would be their one unnatural read, while their other two reads are also unnatural.
It just reads are pretty informed on Reisen's side of the discussion.

Still, it does bother me, the dynamic between Kagerou, Kaguya, and Larvae is strange, while Reisen doesn't really "fit in" to the group in the same way, hence why they may be looking at a sudden elimination. Oh, they totally didn't realize Kagerou was the one that posted about the game speed/state. Or at least, their updated reads didn't reflect it. their list here with me inexplicably coming out reads like a red herring, one that Kaguya even tried to capitalize on later, or someone tried to capitalize on it, I forgot but someone noted it as odd. But that points to more "if I'm gunna die, let's set up those miselim threads for later"

[Yuuka Kazami]

992 they could be a lot harsher here than they decided to be in response to their list.

993 might be they're uncomfortable and providing a fig leaf for peace at the cost of some scum momentum. Sort of playing against win con in an extremely low key way, but this comes off as more teacherish again. Forget I said this. It's weak reasoning on my part. Bad reasoning in fact.

994 In your face, yo.

995 Starting to notice they seem to be a little bit too focused on telling the truth and so they kind of do that slightly odd thing where they make reads based on how they like how someone posts rather than whether it's more or less likely to come from scum or town. Kind of lines up with the rest of their reads and places them back into newbie scum territory.
It feels weird for me to say that, given, well, they're probably not newbie scum based on how they post. Just maybe a weak scum game in some respects.

Or not and they're town.

[Yuuka Kazami]

1033 Hmm.

1035 Hmm.


Kagerou has been setting up that shot all day, so it's pretty believable for them to vig Tenshi.

[Yuuka Kazami]

VOTE: Kagerou

<------ Scum is here

like look flip me if you want but you'll have to kill one of Tenshi / Ichirin tommorow

I hate this post and I hate that they never responded to me harping on about it.
For someone, who is mad and omgusing and being annoyed, they sure did have time to make another I'm a wolf joke.
I guess it could just be on the surface what it is, they're saying Tenshi is scum. But they seem so self aware that I don't get how they can open up their own post, make the text red, point it directly at their own name, after making multiple other posts joking about being a wolf and then post it. It's tonal whiplash.

[Yuuka Kazami]

1973 *nods* Or informed. Either or, out of left field, feels more spontaneous than you'd expect, consistent since they maintain suspicion on Kaguya for the next 2 days.

[Yuuka Kazami]

i thought you were softing neighborizer earlier in the game

i can't remember if that was you or your predecessor

Another fuck up from Larvae, probably.

[Yuuka Kazami]

VOTE: Reisen

Sorry, I just can't make it through all the way with this lizard voice in my head from Disco Elysium telling me to, "vvvote R-reisen, they're scumsss."

It just won't quit.

GG, I am very sorry if I'm wrong. It takes a lot for me to skip ahead like this. I really, genuinely, hope I did enough.

Good game.

*bites nails*

[Yuuka Kazami]

There's just too many reasons it's Reisen, it's insane.

[Yuuka Kazami]

If it's not reisen then what the fuck.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Oh shit, were they talking about Reisen or Koishi.
Goddamnit. Impulse control you idiot.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Yeah, the predecessor comment couldn't have been directed toward Kagerou, it was directed toward Koishi.

Sigh.

Whelp, helpfully the rest wasn't confirmation bias like Reisen v 2 said.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Oh, and I'm sorry for my behavior this game. I need to learn not to snap at people or belittle them just because I'm frustrated, confused, or want them to show me that they're town.