Mini 301: Berry Kingdom Mafia II -- (Game Over!!)

[Bacde]

Vote: ciprian

Welcome to Mafiascum!

[Bacde]

Unvote; Vote: Lloyd

I think he realized that his daykill joke was in bad taste, and thus followed up with his execute joke to 'prove' that jokes like that are fine.

'Proving' jokes is scummy enough to warrent a vote.

[Bacde]

If 3rd vote = scum, then we'd never lynch anyone. The age-old 'reference' scumtells are made for looking back at mainly lynchwagons towards lategame. FYI ziliu

Also my vote had nothing to do with either of the other two people's votes that were on him. Doesn't sound much like bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning.

[Bacde]

Omg LaL Commodore amazing.

But in all seriousness, I think I'll defend ciprian's wording here. It just seems to me like it is confusing wording, not scummy disassociative wording.

[Bacde]

Where are you guys getting these gut feelings on Ciprian? I'd love to join the bandwagon if I knew why.

[Bacde]

Coron, you should have assumed that I already did that. Because I did. I'm no dummy when it comes to trying to do the work myself.

I guess his whole "Posting mental notes is scummy" Tyrade is pretty stupid. Either way, voting Ciprian is better than no vote at all, and I think Lloyd stopped being so crazy.

Unvote; Vote: Ciprian

[Bacde]

I'm not sure if I want to risk a 2nd lynch this early. Personally I'd like to think that it is between CA and Yosarian, but nothing is ever that simple.

[Bacde]

I think trying to harness an SK is biting off a little more than we would be able to chew. I say we lynch him.

Vote: Commodore Amazing

[Bacde]

Right. I forgot that subtracting the SK would also subtract one from our 8. I was hoping to at least be able to make it to tommorow w/ at least a lynch or lose.

Unvote

[Bacde]

In making a list, excluding yourself on the basis "I know I am protown" is a highly anti-progress thing to do.

Thus we are working off of Yosarian2, TheCesspit, Cherry, Bacde, Ziliu, and Ameliaslay.

Sort of a large list. Hm.

[Bacde]

From what I got of it, he was saying Ziliu still had the chance to counter-claim you because he hasn't posted since your claim. But I disagree. (Snooze lose theory).

Still thinking.

[Bacde]

I can follow that logic.

Vote: Ameliaslay

As I was rereading her posts I didn't feel her adamant vibes to catch the scum.

[Bacde]

If you are assuming the standard 3 mafia then no we aren't in a lynch or lose situation. Lynching CA would not put us in a lynch or lose situation, but would actually cause us to lose.

@Ziliu, you ended yesterday with a vote on me also. Is there a reason you so adamently want me specifically lynched?

[Bacde]

The longer the vote pools stay still with my vote on Amelia, the happier I am with my vote. Do remember that voting is a dynamic concept.

@TheCesspit- What part of what I am saying seems to be intended to misdirect?

At the moment I feel like I'm the only person here trying to find the mafia. Since nothing changed since I have voted her, I feel very good with my vote on Amelia. If I had to guess another scum, honestly right now I'd say ziliu for accusing me and doing nothing about it when he doesn't get much approval from others. It goes both ways.

[Bacde]

It was a stupid mistake, I realized we had 8 players left, and I also realized that 7 people = lynch or lose, and I also put the idea of having 1 night kill would put us to 7 people. I just forgot that a lynch of the SK would still put us down to 7 people, and thus most likely cause us to lose if the night kill went through.

Brain Fart.

[Bacde]

^^^Which is why I'm checking this thread very much since I have voted.

Cherry, I voted Amelia because she hasn't tried once this game to catch scum. Why would she not want to catch scum? Seems like one reason to me.

Note here that Amelia likes to make herself known for trying to get other people to post useful stuff.

[Bacde]

I was reffering to the Title fairy thread. Perhaps I had read you wrong.

[Bacde]

I would say that Ziliu or Ameliaslaty are the quietest up until recently,

If I may interject a small comment, I was out of state for the last half of day one and so missed a large chunk of the action...

That's cool. So who do you think is scum?

[Bacde]

Unvote

With the benifit of the doubt, I'll give you your time.

[Bacde]

Agreed.

[Bacde]

I can go for a lynch on either Bacde or Ameliaslay. Ameliaslay has been very guarded, even though the town seems to be in lylo. And Bacde's lynch happy.

I don't understand how I can seem lynch happy for advocating the lynch of someone no one else agrees with.

[Bacde]

Ugh, ziliu your post was so riddled full of holes it makes me begin to suspect you as top suspect.

I don't think "making noises to encourage us towards making a decision" benefits town. I don't want to manipulate you guys into a decision, I want you to reach the decision independently, providing your own reasoning. If I really started making a huge case against Bacde, if he is innocent, it would be too easy for scum to jump on. It'd be too easy for scum to jump on if he is scum too for that matter, no, I'm more of the lay back and observer-player, I want everybody to provide there own reasoning for their actions, only then can we find scum. 'nough said.

If I am innocent, game over, unless you REALLY want to rely on Commodore Amazing making a kill. (Not a good plan in I hope anyone's opinion).

Though it is a little bit quiet here, so I'll comment the PBPA of yours.


I still do stand by my comment on Bacde's 3rd vote; I was not saying that the fact that it was the 3rd vote was scummy

per se

, but the fact that the reasoning for that 3rd vote was so crappy, he voted Lloyd for two jokes,

admitting that they were only jokes

.

Have you really read my posts? The way you are talking suggests you haven't, else you would have read that I voted for Lloyd

BECAUSE

he joked, not because I thought he was serious.

WIFOM. Actually, I think that posts makes it more likely Bacde's scum. I don't think the your side-reason had much merit, (which is easy to say for me in retrospect, but whatever), but the point is, I don't like the way Bacde defended ciprian there. A pro-town, IMHO, would be more careful of defending somebody because they couldn't really know if ciprian were scum or not, whereas a scum, knowing that ciprian was innocent, would see it as an opportunity to gain some innocence for later on... (cont.)

You admit that it is WIFOM, and then go on to argue that it makes me more likely scum? What are you trying to pull here? I think you also missed the part where I made it clear I was defending ciprian's word choice, rather than him as a player. Read please.

(cont.)... except that won't really work if the town didn't know ciprian was innocent, hence, it's better if scum lynch him to make sure.

Stupidest reasoning ever. So you are accusing me of defending ciprian and then lynching him even though I thought he was protown? When did I actually defend

ciprian

, instead of his word choice.

Also, add my comments to those two posts in post 137.

Obviously my opinion changed...

As you probably see, I don't agree with that. First, #98 is a small scum-tell in itself, I still think a pro-town would be more careful, and realise lynching the SK meant goodbye. Bacde votes CA, maybe hoping for a quick-lynch, and doesn't unvote till Yosarian tells him to. Very scummy.

You didn't even say

why

it was scummy. Just saying "Very scummy" at the end of a statement doesn't make it true. I think you were clawing at the idea that my vote was an intended vote to create a quick-lynch, but that doesn't even make any logical sense.
Were I scum, then a quick lynch couldn't have happened because the quick-lynch principal assumes that all scum vote for a particular person already.

Were I innocent, then I (obviously) wouldn't want a quick-lynch. I figured out that yes, lynching him puts us most likely into a loss. Hell, I could even say that that honest mistake showed I wasn't counting numbers as diligently has I should have, as a scum would have been doing, but that would be WIFOM wouldn't it.

I actually agree that including yourself is more pro-town, but I do believe a true townie or a careful scumbag would exclude themselves. I don't like Bacde's quick attack on Yosarian2 though; I read it as trying to start an accusation.

You get a cookie if you can show me where I accused Yosarian of anything besides doing something anti-progress. Honestly, where is it? I still stand by the idea that if you are trying to work with everyone, you can't exclude yourself from the pool. If you are only posting your notes for your own sake, then what is the point of even posting them?
----
Of course, in my entire response to you, I was being overly kind. I don't wish to misrepresent your situation, but I feel very differently than you (obviously). At the moment, I think it is VERY likely that you are scum, and that you voted me thinking that I would be an easy lynch. What I don't think you planned on, was TheCesspit not advocating your lynch. You, realizing that being hypocritical would be scummy (since your main accusation is on the basis that I search for affirmations before I do anything, which is proved false by my actions on Ameliaslay today anyway), decided that keeping your vote on me would be your best choice of action, and are now stuck in a rut, and have decided to keep firing away at me, even though you've got no ammunition left.

In case you wanted to know, yes, when I said "Not doing anything about it" I meant you not voting me. I find it

very

interesting that you didn't vote me until I pretty obviously pointed out that you should follow your suspicions.

So with out further adeiu,

FoS: ziliu

, and I still am waiting for Ameliaslay to say whatever she was going to.

[Bacde]

I don't think you understand how tired I am of people with 300 or less posts doing a "PBPA" on me, misrepresent the situation, try to wagon me and fail, and then get on with the rest of the game. I think something even more protown than looking for scum is the ability to doubt yourself, so you can check on your accusations from a new mindset, to make sure that your position at least holds some fucking water. This just seems to happen to me every damn game.

Need examples?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 68&start=0
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 67&start=0
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 52&start=0

There is an ongoing theme game where this has happened too, but I won't link you to it because it is bad form to refer to ongoing games.

I'll tell you why your entire post misrepresents the entire game later, but not now because I'm so frusterated at the idea of this happening again. If you want an example of how you are

strawmanning

(https://www.mafiascum.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/Straw_Man), I'll show you one.

You figured out that lynching him would most likely put us into a loss, yet you voted him, without being more careful and considering other options?? Doesn't sound pro-town to me.

Shouldn't it be obvious that when I said "I found out that lynching him would be a loss" I was talking about where I unvoted him? How is avoiding a loss something that isn't protown?

OR What about this gem

Besides, that paragraph was very manipulative in tone, and fallacious in logic. It could be just your style of writing, but I don't like it. You are basically saying that because I keep my vote on you, I must be scum, giving an example: "Assuming he were scum, it would be hypocritical to unvote me, and he would keep my vote on me. Ergo, because he's keeping his vote on me, he would be scum." What you don't say is the same argument would hold if I were innocent.

First of all, I thought it was obvious in my previous post that my final paragraph WAS my "not so kind to your position" paragraph, where I posted my opinion rather than mere fact. I already stated that I think it is very likely that you are scum, and I stated what I thought your position in the game is. You already stated that one of your main goals was to avoid looking scummy or hippocritical. I think that is stupid if you are town, since town players are playing to find scum. I'm also very tired of people saying that changing opinion is not allowed. If people were not allowed to change their opinions in mafia games, then the scum would always win.

Now answer me this question:

Why do you care about looking scummy if you are protown?

[Bacde]

I'd rather wait on Ameliaslay than pretend that one of us

must

be scum. In short, I'd like to hear from everyone who hasn't been talking much.

[Bacde]

Then what happened to the missing nightkill?

I think that Lloyd is most likely telling the truth.

[Bacde]

I think Ameilia's attempt to find a scum was much more protown than your sitting around.

Ugh.

[Bacde]

I'm not feeling vibes from The Cesspit. My two cents.

[Bacde]

Yosarian2 you pointed out yourself that were I scum trying to quicklynch, than I wouldn't have quickly unvoted. There was not much timespan between those two posts (obviously not enough for scum to hop on).

And I think I voted for CA after he claimed, hold on.

[Bacde]

I guess its a WIFOM argument, but it is true that what I did at least would be uncommon for a scum to do.

[Bacde]

Posting, don't replace me, currently swamped with homework, I'll give two cents later.

[Bacde]

While I have a good feeling about TheCesspit, something about Yosarian earlier this game unsettled me, although I feel better about him now too.

Also, Turbovolver, I think I've proven pretty well that my alignment is with the town, as where yours is less so.

Vote: Cherry

Watching that vote for today...

[Bacde]

I'm talking about my actions in the game. So far the only reason you seem to think I am scummy is because I have been pretty extrovertive this game. And because I said mean things to ziliu.

One major difference between us turbo, is that I want to lynch scum. You, being the sk (since I can't see how you would be mafia), want to slowly kill both sides at the same rate, forcing us to keep you alive. This is why I won't trust a single word you say.

[Bacde]

^^ hmm

[Bacde]

^^ hmm

Why Hmmm?

Just interested in both of us voting for cherry, that is all.

[Bacde]

One major difference between us turbo, is that I want to lynch scum. You, being the sk (since I can't see how you would be mafia), want to slowly kill both sides at the same rate, forcing us to keep you alive. This is why I won't trust a single word you say.

Bacde,

What made you rule out Turbovolver possibly being mafia?

The way the kills are, along with the way CA revealed himself yesterday makes it not feasible to me that he is any other role. I don't see a way he could be mafia, unless Fritzler killed himself.

That being said, if he WERE mafia, he would be an even greater detriment to the town.

[Bacde]

No counterclaim here.

Now here is my recent braindrain: Roleblocking is probably the most common ability that scum own. Yosarian's comment about 'out of the 4 of you, 3 of you are scum' caused me to think.

I'd like to know what makes you so happy to vote me lloyd, even though there are MUCH BETTER candidates for your vote.

(Such as Cherry).

Either way I keep getting the feeling that scum should have already won, since there have been MANY a situation which seems like that person could have been quicklynched. (Lloyd, Ziliu, maybe Cherry).

Wierd stuff going on right now. I'll post more when Its not late and I'm not swamped with hw.

[Bacde]

I still wanna look into Bacde...

Sounds good to me.

Vote: Bacde

Did you read Ziliu's post at all, or are you seriously preferring to listen to the claimed SK?

[Bacde]

I voted Cherry because his little input into this game has proved to me that finding scum is not in his best interest.

It isn't exactly lurker voting, it is scum voting.

Also Lloyd: When did I say I was in danger when I was put under 1 vote?

If I were Cherry I'd be trying really hard to move the votes on me to someone else.

[Bacde]

Cherry, speak.

[Bacde]

The only reason you thought I was scum was because I wasn't calm? Tell me how playing with an rash tone, as compared to one that is calm, has ANYTHING to do with being scum?

Also I think you are mad at me for spreading the idea to not listen to you, a claimed scum.

[Bacde]

Funny, I don't see it. If you honestly are getting good protown vibes from cherry, do share them with me.

[Bacde]

The only reason you thought I was scum was because I wasn't calm? Tell me how playing with an rash tone, as compared to one that is calm, has ANYTHING to do with being scum?

Tone has nothing to do with it. Trying to shrug off arguments based on

postcount

is avoiding arguments on a poor reason, i.e. scummy.
And that was far from all, thank you very much. In fact I gave a new reason in my latest post, which you've conveniently left unaddressed.

I'm only dodging your question because you've dodged my answer. I've already stated why I think Cherry is scum. Among every player in this game, he has acted the least townlike, and the most scumlike, and that is even more than you sir, the claimed SK.

The only reason you think there isn't enough evidence is because he has lurked. Lurking amplifies his actions, since he has made less actions in the game.

[Bacde]

Perhaps Cherry should be replaced?

Agreed.

[Bacde]

Blaaaaaaacckkberrrryyyyyy, wee neeeed youuu.

[Bacde]

I'm still around, waiting for a Cherry replacement

*SNIP*

Agreed.

[Bacde]

But you are forgetting he blocked a kill. I'd much rather lynch someone who hasn't at least proved some form of ability. There are much scummier players out there, IE your former self.

However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and

Unvote

for now, seeing as you've probably sparked more discussion.

[Bacde]

unvote

No counterclaim on masonship.

Interesting. You seem to be the only one here that truly was willing to vote for Lloyd at this point in the game. I'd really like to know what made you think he was the most likely scum candidate.

[Bacde]

Yes, SK + Scum = Lose kthx. I'm not about to trust turbovolver or his scum-sensing ability here.

[Bacde]

Ok seriously, did anyone notice how many people were willing to be suspicious of me or ziliu at different points today, yet when the suspicion lies on Ameliaslay or Cherry(Iba), the game drops to a standstill? If you ask me, it is because scum are unwilling to lynch their own so close to a win for them (LoL). I think that if we are to find scum anywhere, it would be easiest among these two.

Turbo, the reason why I'm not listening to you is because I'm done with you. I've refuted all of your arguments, and I honestly can't see why you think I'm scum at all. Since you are basically using no logic at all, I have no other option than to not trust you, since you are a claimed SK. Why would I listen to an antitown player when they are making no sense? Seriously, drop the act.

Since I'm willing to lynch either Amelia or Iba at this point, I will vote ameliaslay since she already has a vote on her, and I don't want the 14th to roll around without a lynch. I'm going to hold on that vote, however, until my performance tonight is over, so that I can watch my vote with a vigilant eye should the scum choose to quicklynch. Unless Amelia has already gotten more than 1 vote at a time on her today? I can't remember.

[Bacde]

You know what, you are right. I have NO BASIS WHATSOEVER ON CHERRY. OH WAIT, I told you RIGHT IN THAT FREAKING POST, another reason why I think Cherry is scum. Yes, I hope to dear god that you are deliberately playing dumb.

Vote: Ameliaslay

for having the most votes among the people I think are scum.

[Bacde]

You know, Ameliaslay, I'm still willing to lynch Cherry. *wink* *wink*

Just chilling there w/o a vote on anyone doesn't make you look better.

[Bacde]

Since when is Yosarian2 confirmed town? I'd like to know your thoughts TheCesspit. If you yourself are town, then Yosarian would look to me like a likely mafia member, due to statistics.

The only two people I'm comfortable lynching today are Amelia or Ibaesha.

[Bacde]

When did I say he was?

(answering questions w/ questions is fun)

[Bacde]

Guys this is great and all, but can we go for the more agreed apon scum for now, so that we can at least make it to tommorow?

FoS: Iba

and less so at

TheCesspit

because you are bothing derailing a good lynchwagon.

[Bacde]

Scum = Cesspit, Ibaesha, Ameliaslay (Unless Lloyd is a Mafia Roleblocker I hope not). Any questions? Good.

Lets see, assuming we have 3 mafia, and 7 people, we would be at lynch or lose right now? Oh well.

Vote: Ameliaslay

Everyone and their mothers should know what role I am right now.

[Bacde]

Lol, notcop.

[Bacde]

Unvote

I still want to lynch her, but wait what the hell? Lloyd looks like scum to me right now. He blocked Yosarian2 instead of Turbo?! WHY?! It seems like anyone with some intelligence would realize that that could VERY EASILY end in a loss for the town if both of the kills went through.

Or maybe Lloyd already knew that. Maybe he thought Yosarian2 was a doctor, and wanted to finish the game as a win for the scum.

My Suspicions lie right now in: Ameliaslay, Ibae, Lloyd

[Bacde]

Crap, I don't know anymore. All I know is I want Ameliaslay dead. :S

Vote: Ameliaslay

[Bacde]

Except he already roleblocked you.

[Bacde]

lol go town etc.

[Bacde]

You shoulda voted no lynch. It was the only possibility to end in a town win at the end, although I doubt either of the scum would have voted no lynch.

Awesome game, had a lot of fun.