Micro 89 ~ Mafia Rarefaction Segunda (Game Over!)

[Aeris]

Parama - why did you back off Trevor like that? And if he was a scum read, why not vote him?

Tierce - why unvote parama right after being called about by leaf snail?

Leafsnail - why call put tierce for going for an l-1 push and not parama for actually putting tug at l-1?

I want to vote parama for apparently not knowing who boy George is

[Aeris]

Crap didn't mean to submit.

[Aeris]

Have a leaning town read on parama for admitting that he doesn't know what he's doing and for Sheeping tierce, don't see what tug is going on about them as anything really.

Leafs probably town too.

I don't like tierce's repsonses to leaf though. Don't know why she didn't just say what she was doing and needed to point out it wasn't a scum tell.

VOTE: tierce

[Aeris]

I'm never desperate, especially when posting fluff.

[Aeris]

But FF you can now point out what is contrived about the questions. I actually want to know the answers to those things.

[Aeris]

I don't like tierce's repsonses to leaf though. Don't know why she didn't just say what she was doing and needed to point out it wasn't a scum tell.

VOTE: tierce

...

He was voting me for a reason that makes no sense, what am I expected to do? You're saying that me refuting a nonsensical accusation is scummy? O_o

Not necessarily. It looked to me like he was trying to get a read on you. The thing that struck me as odd was the 'not a scum tell' part. I just wanted you to respond some more to see if my initial gut read had anything to it.

[Aeris]

Aeris, why is Leaf town?

Partial but, partial like how proactive he's being in generated discussion.

Do you disagree? If so, why?

Also, if I recall tug called leaf probstown too. Did you inquire into their reasoning? If not, why not?

[Aeris]

Tierce is right I'm not a newbie. Though if I'm not making sense and therefore seem like a newbie, I apologize. I have an excruciating headache right now and can't really focus.

[Aeris]

Leafsnail - why call put tierce for going for an l-1 push and not parama for actually putting tug at l-1?

It's not that strong an accusation (more a semi-RVS thing) and I think Parama has the bigger problem of not making any sense at all right now. But why ask a question about this if you're going to support my approach in your next post?
.

I dont follow your question. My approving of your line of questioning doesnt really matter to the question i asked. Two people committed a similar action, why would you only question one of them about their motives?

[Aeris]

Ah. Actually me giving a reason for parama is the odd thing for me as I don't tend to give a bunch of reasons for town reads. However, I had an initial gut scum read on parama that changed for the reasons I gave. So, the reasons were me working out my read there.

As far as leaf - I like the way he's going about generating discussion. And no generating discussion isn't a big town tell, but we're on page 4 and I like what I see so far. I also liked admitting that in rvs he pushes on weak things to get reactions. Felt town.

[Aeris]

Okay 79 is better as far as I can follow. I actually missed the first bit in Post 30 where you refuted the first accusation, and just saw the 'it's not a scum tell'. Why I thought it was a bit odd was that rather than say, "it's not a scum tell", I'd expect something more along the lines of why it could benefit town for putting someone at l-2 or l-1 early, such as looking for reactions either from the wagonee or from other players. So the immediate defense struck me as odd. However, looking back that's not what you were doing with parama as it looks like a pure rvs joke vote, so that thought is probably totally invalid.

Really, don't mind me. I should have just prod-dodged today instead of trying to force myself to focus on something when I just can't. Hopefully tomorrow this damn headache will be gone.

UNVOTE:

[Aeris]

don't see what tug is going on about them as anything really.

We literally went through, step by step, and explained it in a post dedicated to explaining our Parama read after being asked to explain the Parama read.
What parts don't you grok?

I grok it, just thought it fell flat.

[Aeris]

@Aeris - So to indicate that you understood it but thought it was weak you said "don't see" about the point of our case...?

But I didn't say I didn't see the point. I said I didn't see it as anything really.

[Aeris]

Well I'd like to lynch 6 of you at the moment.

[Aeris]

Trevor - for agreeing with konowa that tug should be lynched for Thor reasons but voting konowa.

[Aeris]

if that is too complicated

pick a random two ria RNG.com and tell me why those two need lynching.

You're cute.

[Aeris]

Aceofspades for being useless.

Also, this parama wagon is stupid.

[Aeris]

Konowa - for parking his vote in a safe place and talking from the sidelines.

[Aeris]

Tierce - for spending the majority of time this game in defenseville. (and no defensiveness is not a scum tell, that's not what I'm getting at.). There's no proactive scumhunting and what has been there has felt meh. Though I *liked* enough her latest posts toward Leafsnail but it feels like something is missing.

[Aeris]

F-16 and Leafsnail I have in a similar place of leaning town but I'm hesitant. I'd like to see Leafsnail not solely focused on tierce. I'm trying to figure out why so much time is spent on tierce, but not as much interaction with parama who he's voting for. and f-16 is *saying* things I like but I have an off feel from him.

Oh f-16 - when I said I wanted to vote parama for not knowing who boy George was, that was a joke.

Konowa - I don't think you answered my question. If you disagree with my Leafsnail probstown read, why?

Town reads on parama and tug. <------ my luck that's probably the scum team :p

Check out my wide net of suspicion. So, if the town in those other six could start being obv, that would be super helpful thanks.

[Aeris]

Tierce - for spending the majority of time this game in defenseville. (and no defensiveness is not a scum tell, that's not what I'm getting at.). There's no proactive scumhunting and what has been there has felt meh. Though I *liked* enough her latest posts toward Leafsnail but it feels like something is missing.

...You do realize I'm half of Sixty, yes? I can't do everything at once, and at times I actually

don't

want to make what's in my mind crystal clear. People are easier to read if they can't use me as a shepherd.

I do. I have no problem with you not outing reads or playing a close to the vest game. I also have no problem if you're playing a more "watch and see how things develop game", that's not what I'm getting at. You feel like you're answering for yourself a bit too much rather than being proactive in trying to attain reads.

[Aeris]

Thor is already hard enough to read, being in a hydra just means we need to lynch him now so he can't be super unreadable.

Agreed 100% no doubt about it.

[b[Vote: Konowa[/b]

Also, what if there's a tie at the deadline?

Yes, I am serious. And it came from reading the thread. Doesn't matter if it was iso though because it's this post. Are you not agreeing 100% with konowa here regarding Thor and voting for konowa?

[Aeris]

Aceofspades for being useless.

Also, this parama wagon is stupid.

Most of this stuff is good but I don't get your position on Parama. Can you elaborate please?

I don't see any scum motivation in his play. Tierce said he trolls regardless of alignment, but I think he's experienced enough to troll in a way that wouldn't garner him as much suspicion if he were mafia. The early Trevor push and back off would be lazy for him as scum, which I don't think he'd do. I think his push on aceofspades and ff sound like they come from an honest place. He just seems like a really easy lynch.

The only only reason why I would think mafia would make themselves such an easy target day one would be if they were planning on getting lynched day one so rarefaction wouldn't happen until 3 person LyLo, but that seems rather silly so I'm discounting it.

[Aeris]

Changed my mind on Trevor. He reads town. I didn't get the joke and in retrospect I like his Post 120 . Also, liked his not gonna hammer parama. Besides me having a town read on parama, hammering would have been easy and wouldn't have gotten him any flack either. So it's ++

[Aeris]

Blatant prod dodge. We'll see if I post tonight or tomorrowish.

Please do, and if you're town, please post like town. Me being suspicious of over half the room is somewhat worrying for me.

[Aeris]

Aeris. An initial townread is well and good. What do you think of the new evidence against Parama? And Trevor as well. I don't have a townread on either of those players so convince me.

What new evidence on Trevor?

I see your point on parama, but I don't think it really amounts to much as I think that's just a typical type statement that Thor would make. I don't think he would actually sheep a scum read, but I think it's something he would say to try to get someone to build a case, possibly to see how serious they are or to try to get a better read on them or just to be Thor. Also Post 185 looked like he was already scum reading thor before the fact. Also, he does the make a case and maybe I'll follow thing in Post 194 then you started pushing for his read on parama for quite a few posts but didn't really give him enough time to even react. And tbf it's not even something I think I would have noticed town or scum, but I can be quite oblivious.

I don't know that I can convince anyone. His play doesn't make sense for scum. He started off pushing Trevor and backed off quickly even though he had a legit argument. He didn't vote him when he said he was his first official scum read. If he were a noob sure, this would be scummy, but he's not so I think he would be a little more careful about that. Also, his "maybe I'm reading too much into it" seems odd to come from scum. All in all I just don't see scum motivation in his play. I think his push on you seems natural and not one that comes from scum. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says about you because I like some of what you say, but it doesn't look like artificial suspicion.

[Aeris]

I am curious, why are you ignoring my posts?

I'm not ignoring anyone's posts. I'm multi-tasking at the moment and haven't even responded to a couple other posts I want to.

[Aeris]

I like 120 too. Decisive, curt, not fluff. I don't consider the non-hammer to be necessarily a towntell though. Hammering Parama so soon in the day would have put Trevor in the hotseat regardless of Parama's affiliation. I've seen a game (Thor played that game too) where Thor was town and a scum blatantly said "I am not hammering." It is something that is alignment indicative and a totally plausible thing for scum to do. I am certain Parama is scum although I am starting to have doubts about Trevor. He still needs to post more though.

Well Trevor's attitude reads town, and the not hammering thing unless parama were his partner I don't know what his motivation would be not to hammer. His aceofspades is too easy could come from scum too, but seeing as how if we get a mislynch today and one mislynch tomorrow, I think scum would take an easy mislynch if it were handed to them.

[Aeris]

*that should say if scum got a mislynch today and one tomorrow they would win. I need to learn to finish sentences.

[Aeris]

Regarding Trevor - you asked him questions and he responded in Post 162 and Post 168. He didn't answer yourPost 170 though.

Meh I just noticed looking back there's a question you asked me I didn't respond to either. As far as no analysis, he's hardly the only one. I could say that about several people here, and I don't think it's fair to give him the sitting back and hoping town implodes at page ten especially when the biggest thing to happen so far is a big push on parama (who he's stated he won't vote for) and an argument between Leafsnail (who I'm guessing is the veggie he won't vote for?) and tierce.

[Aeris]

I'd settle for a lynch on Ace considering that he's not playing at all.

I think the point you're missing is that if I was scum why would I admit to being serious :V

So that you can say this.

So that you can say this and vote whoever you want without any reasons

.

(also applies to Aeris' post).

This is silly. Anyone can vote anyone at any time and any halfway competent player can explain even a change in mind from town to scum.

Why does it seem like your predetermining "scummy" actions but not looking for motivation? Also, why give tierce a hard time for not giving reads when you haven't given much yourself?

(although I do like your recent comments on konowa as I think that would be an extremely acceptable wagon)

[Aeris]

Oh also forgot, aceofspades is town.

[Aeris]

You must legit not be reading the thread to thinkive given only townreads and no scum reads. In fact, leaf, in criticizing parama criticized me too for leaving an opening to vote anyone. Do you think that was for too many town reads? No. I told Thor I wanted to lynch 6 of you, and gave a reason why for everyone except tug and parama who were the only two town reads I had at the time. Today I said Trevor and aceofspades were town. I'm suspicious of the rest of the room to varying degrees.

[Aeris]

I will in a little bit. It's a longer post than I want to/can respond to right now.

But tierce is being proactive? What?are you seriously saying that. With a straight face? My main complaint with tierce is she's *not* being proactive. And in my complaint to her that she wasn't being proactive, she didn't even counter that she was. BECAUSE SHE'S NOT.

How can you have a town read on leaf for his push on parama and at the same time call tierce proactive. When what I'm gathering from his push on tierce is that she's not really doing anything town motivated either. Tierce has spent the majority of her time here in defenseville and answering for herself. Her only push has been on leaf who you're calling town for pushing parama so what are you doing?

[Aeris]

Oh and aceofspades. Isn't see him as scum doing nothing but bippidy bippody doo and then replacing out the way he did. Read town to me.

[Aeris]

But that's my problem with tierce is there haven't been any questions to try to get inside people's heads, and her defense to that has been that she doesn't want to be a shepherd, which what? I mean, no offense, because I know she's a good Scumhunter, but that reads off. She talks to me like I was town in Post 78 and then claimed not to have a read on me two posts later. Her push back on leaf reads more as a push against his push on her as well. I just don't see how you can call her proactive when she objectively hasn't been. If she were, I wouldn't be asking her to act like town if she were town so I could stop worrying about her. The only only thing that gives me pause on her as scum is her not pushing on me the first day I came into the game. I think i was an easy target that day because I had a bad headache and couldn't think clearly. I could have easily been pushed as someone without a clear thought process who hid behind an excuse and she didn't go there.

Anyway, I'll respond to your other post tomorrow. I'm tired and still have a few things to do before *sleep*

[Aeris]

I actually meant to vote yesterday leafsnail and forgot, which I have a tendency to do especially if I find several people suspicious.

VOTE: konowa

I need to address a couple things and respond to f-16, but the pain medication I'm on right now has me feeling horrible. If I feel better later, I'll come back, but it probably won't be until tomorrow.

[Aeris]

Check out those conditional town reads.

Tierce - I know you know who I am, I knew you knew who I was before the game started because I know how you know who I am. I think it's weird your town read on me seems partially conditional on f-16 being scum. Though I am intentionally *attempting* to force myself to approach the game in a different way, I know that enough elements of me as town are still present, so the conditional looks really weird to me. Also that statement you made to f-16 where you claim that if someone can't read you when you're town is really bad reads really off in the context of this game. You haven't been obvtown by a longshot in this game, so I don't know what you were trying to accomplish there.

Hmm ballsy move if scum as he would be instalynched tomorrow in rarefaction and would leave his partner as the last hope and potentially lose easier if the real IC ended up in his partners cell. But if he was counterclaimed he'd either still be lynched or they would be able to night kill them.

Hmm ill have more to say on tierce's case and his reaction to her case, which leads me to believe his IC claim anyway but in a little bit. I have to do something real quick, which may or may not take up all my energy.

Also, please bear with me if I don't make a lot of sense or misread something, I had a minor surgery yesterday and the pain medicine I'm on either makes me feel very sick, disoriented or extremely tired or a little of all.

I'm still happy with my vote on konowa and want to read through tierces case again but I think I said that already. Okay back in a bit.

[Aeris]

I'll get back to this game in a. It but falcon is holy fuck town.

[Aeris]

Posting in all games. Just received news that my grandmother passed this afternoon. Posting after tonight will be very limited as I have to help with plans and probably host the reception.

I'm very sorry for your loss. I lost two of my grandparents this year, so I know how much this sucks.

[Aeris]

UNVOTE: F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Aeris--if Falcon is not the Innocent Child, he may be trying to draw out the real IC Today, not at Rarefaction. Considerably less ballsy move. This is a moot point, however, as I am not interested in counterclaims.

How is it weird to have conditional Townreads? If a scum v. scum pairing doesn't work and I believe person A is scum, person B is necessarily Town to me. It's partner-hunting.

As for that line, it's Empire's regarding both Regfan's and my Townplay. It was more humorous than anything--I haven't been mislynched since December 11 last year and was 'celebrating' my no-mislynch-Versary.
.

1. Happy no-mislynch-Versary. (I'm still bitter about my one and only mislynch due to inattention and buddying in lylo but I digress). But the quote seemed a bit out of place and didnt come off as a humorous statement. It was as if you were admonishing him for thinking you weren't town when you really haven't done anything to make someone think you're town in ths game.

2. You're leaving yourself an out and if you're scum, that "townread" doesn't cost you anything. As scum ,you would know falcon was town; therefore when you get your town flip you get to take it back. When town do the conditional town read thing it usually looks a bit different. "oh I have a town read here, but If this person flips scum, then the town read is stronger.". Or "I was leaning scum here, but this read is stronger and if I'm right on this one then I'm wrong on the other because there's no way they're partners" type thing. Not to mention that you even undermine it in that very post when you ask how me not being a newbie affects Parama's earlier town read on me.

And regarding your 314 in which you say that you can really only win this game by forcing town to interact in a way that will help in rarefaction. If that's true, why have you been nearly absent this game, not attemtpting to force people to interact, asking questions that would help those reads, etc. and instead going I don't want to be a shepherd, let me hold my cards? This doesn't make sense, and I do think the way you and vi did your "game breaking strategy" as scum after the voided lynch in 463 counts to the question knowa was asking you.

[Aeris]

Falcon - regarding Post 229 .

I don't know what you mean by passive. I've called the wagon stupid. I've explained more than once why I think parama is town, but no i don't think that I'm going to be able to convince people of it. I know when I can and I can't convince people of something. I'm not a miracle worker and people don't always listen to me.

As far as you question on the Thor Sheeping parama thing. I'd probably make the case and not the anything of it. I'd probably get called out for it to as I can be pretty oblivious from time to timeso just wouldn't have thought anything of it. I think that those are the types of things that get picked up and make people look scummy when they're not (like voting on the same wagon with a scum read)

The part about parama not voting Trevor and being too scummy to be scum. No I'm not saying that actually. I'm saying that as scum I think he'd not drop it in the way he did and would vote as scum tend to be a bit more careful in their actions so that these things aren't pointed out and don't get questioned. He hasn't demonstrated a sense of carefulness, and that reads more town to me.

Yes, it's fine to pin down anti-town behavior but anti-town =/= scum.

The push on you seems natural because it looks genuine, I can see where he's thinking what he's thinking. I like that you seem to be trying to figure out people's motivations even if I disagree with your conclusions.

*regarding rarefaction. If we mislynch today, the game goes into rarefaction tomorrow, right? Then if we mislynch once, in one of the cells, we lose, right?

[Aeris]

Innocent child is someone modconfirmed as innocent.

Okay help me out with math. In the opening post it says rarefaction happens when mafia makes up 1/3 of the living players. I thought that happened with one mislynch and one night kill as that would be 2 mafia and 5 innocents. Where am I going wrong?

[Aeris]

FRACTIONS!!!

I swear I am actually pretty decent in math, but fractions (and graphing) are my downfall.

[Aeris]

So, scum get one night kill then. We mislynch today, they night kill, we mislynch tomorrow, it goes immediately into rarefaction then? Do I finally have it right?

[Aeris]

You, we, didn't have to sign that one. You called me a fuckwit, for no good reason I might add but I'm heavily drugged right now so it's more amusing than annoying. Thor wouldn't say that. I suppose smurfwit maybe, but even that sounds funny.

At rarefaction, the innocent child get mod confirmed to us as innocent. Don't know what else you're looking for.

[Aeris]

Oh my bad, I was under the delusion you knew what the words moderator, confirmed and innocent meant. I'll be sure not to give you too much credit next time you ask a question.

[Aeris]

If you are actively reading the thread, how do you not know what rarefaction is considering its been talked about several times, including just before you asked about the innocent child? And why is innocent child the question you asked about, and not rarefaction. And if you understood rarafaction, how the hell is the concept of someone being mod confirmed so foreign to you?

Also, if you and Thor are being so active discussing things in the qt, why did you have to be prodded again? Because that makes no sense.

[Aeris]

Majiffy - just for future reference it helps if you actually ask the question you want to know. If you wanted to know how the IC worked in this game, that would have been the question to ask. You didn't ask that. You asked what an innocent child is. I gave you the answer for that question.

[Aeris]

Just don't ask what a car is and you should be fine!

[Aeris]

So majiffy do you realize you answer a question in Post 360 in which you claim you've been keeping up with the game and discussing it in the qt with Thor and then in Post 361 respond to a question by claiming not to know where thors been? So are you guys discussing things in the qt or...?

Also, you respond to my question about rarefaction and the IC with that discussion happened while you were at work. Soooo does the thread only happen in real time for you? And if so, what are you guys discussing in the qt?

Also coming around to the belief tierce is town and I till also think falcon is town. I'll have more to say about that later but now *sleep*

[Aeris]

I'm not sure if I follow your question?

If you're asking why not on my main. For a couple reasons...one to play without the expectations of activity and take more of an analysis approach. And Its an attempt to force a bit of a different approach to the game. I second guess myself a lot, and I wanted to see if I could detach myself from me, and shot from the hip as it were, I could see if my accuracy was any better, etc. I'll always be a careful player because that's just who I am, but I thought it would be an interesting experiment to try a different approach. Micros felt like the best way to start off. Although my first attempt was horrible accuracy wise, I died night one so I guess I I'd something right.

I don't know if that answers your question though.

[Aeris]

I really do need sleep, but...I signed up for this game on 11/29. I suspect you learned my identity on 12/2 and knew you knew for sure on 12/5. My signing up for this game or under an alt had nothing to do with you. I followed the first one and thought it had an interesting mechanic. The only plus the alt gives in regards to you, or would have been, would be avoiding certain issues that tend to arise that really wouldn't stem from me spontaneously. Actually strangely enough seems to have happened anyway. If I thought it really mattered, I'd have said something or thought you'd do the same. I couldn't hardly expect you not to ask that at some point.

Actually I feel somewhat successful in those goals but not as successful as id like to be. I think a few of my initial reads were wrong, for instance the earlier scum read on you im reassessing, but im not going into second guessing mode so thats cool. I feel pretty good about my analysis so far. The game feels fine, I don't have any reason to feel nervous and I feel pretty relaxed overall. As far as meta not being used on me that's fine too, though I generally don't think it matters to this game as what generally identifies me as town, from my perspective, tends to be quite similar no matter what approach I'm taking to the game as its rather foundational, I suppose. Now I don't even know if I'm making sense and should really try to get a few hours of sleep.

[Aeris]

One of the most self-aware meta readers currently active. I don't need your poorly done meta cases for that. You want a good meta case? That was Empire's on me in Open 463, and I didn't jump up and played to my Town meta then, so

why do you think I'd do that now if I was scum

? Your ripped-off shoehorned stuff and weak attempts at showing your regular Town paranoia aren't 'spoonfeeding', they are bullshit blabbering that has no actual connection with how I'm playing. You made a meta case with a predetermined view on my alignment and are twisting everything accordingly, up to and including ignoring the evidence I've given that your case is bullshit.

For WIFOM. Also, the skill of the town here is nowhere near that in Open 463 so you think you can worm your way out of it.

.

whut? i've got mad skillz don't know what you're talking about.

[Aeris]

[quote="In

Have fun not doing that and we'll have fun hanging you. ^___^

I reckon we'll be seeing your flip before ours.

You're...at...L-1...

I know you say "what's the case" and I'm wondering what you've done for town lately. Let's say I've got a trigger happy jack hammer and I'm feeling itchy...why shouldn't I hammer you right now?

Why are you sheeping other people? That doesn't really fit the flow chart now does it?

[Aeris]

oh hey and try to give me something other than 'jiffy don't get day one'd.

[Aeris]

Aeris, what is your original account (if you don't mind revealing)? Also, have you played (or interacted) with me before?

I actually do mind. I've been told that an alt of me could never stay secret for long, and that's probably true. But, I wasn't kidding about me trying to force myself to approach the game a little differently, and I can only really do that if I'm not my main. I know it might sound silly, but there is something I'm trying to correct or adjust, so for as long as this can remain detached it's for the better and what I want to accomplish.

Yes, we have briefly played in the same game before - actually both as you now and as your earlier main account.

I have a few things to finish and then I will get to what I wanted to say about falcon and tierce, and tug since they've graced us with a whole lot of nothing.

[Aeris]

Oh and the case behind the person you're voting is...???

Oh what because Thor? See "I'm town cuz beard...or I'm town cuz DJ...or don't lynch us cuz whateverbsyouwannapull" doesn't fly with me. You haven't done anything this game to make me not want to hammer you. I don't care if you look in the mirror and call yourself pro-town, what I care about is seeing pro-town actions in thread. Guess what I'm not seeing? Look Majiffy I know you hate being scum, I know it "bores" you, but if youre town try to act like it k?

mkay..and what did you learn from your sheepage?

Pretty sure I saw Thor get day one'd some time recently.

There's a really good chance you're going to be lynched today TUG, how does that make you feel?

[Aeris]

Do you honestly expect a Trevor lynch to go through? Aeris is convinced Trevor is town, and Trevor isn't going to vote for himself. That is about all the people who aren't on the TUG wagon (besides me). Even if you convinced me, the most you can get is three votes.

We need to secure the best possible lynch out of all possible lynches. Trevor isn't a possible lynch.

I just had a Voltaire best of all possible worlds flashback. It's late, I'm tired, don't mind me.

I'm not convinced Trevor is town. I think he's likely to be town, but my reads are a bit in flux right now.

[Aeris]

Okay so, finally finished the thing I had to have done by noon and can now thought dump.

So, when tierce made her f-16 case, I had a similar reaction to it as falcon had...was convinced it was a scum case. Though I was a little concerned about falcons short focus and thought he might be mafia, I started to come around to thinking he might be town about the time that leaf had noted that falcon seemed genuine in Post 252. I didn't necessarily read that but what I did think was town was the passionate way he went after parama and Trevor even if I didn't agree with what he was saying.

Falcons reaction to the case reads intensely town to me. I mean unless he's a good actor/ you guys are putting on a hell of a distancing show, I just do not see scum!falcon reading a big case on him and going " that's a scum case, let me write a big meta case on you in return". It reads very very similar to some reactions I've had to cases made against me that i believed were scum motivated. His immediate vote on tierce and seeming disbelief at some of her points reads town. His meta case in return reads town. And yes, maybe he used some of the language or ideas from empire's meta case in 463, but it wasn't a blatant rip off. The same games weren't used as meta references, and it would make sense some of the ideas would carry over. As tierce herself points out it was a really good case, it makes sense that the general idea would be an inspiration. What was definitely not used was the graphs and table, which while yes scum could do that, it's rather rare to do something that involved. And his points are not horrible, some of them don't hold up under scrutiny as tierce has pointed out, but the overall sentiment is valid. And I don't see scum motivation in his response. I see someone who thinks scum made a scum case against them and is set to prove it. (if you're just a really good actor, I'll tip my bonnet to you after the show)

Oh and there's the IC claim. He hasn't been cc'd and really nobody has slipped in a way that makes it seem like they don't believe him be ause they are it, so I'm willing to believe he is it. I've been really busy this week and heavily medicated so really haven't tried to figure out the implications of fake claiming as scum, and his attitude suggests to me he is it so I'm not really worrying about it.

All up this just adds up to falcon being town. (or putting on a very good show, but as I said before I'm working on stopping this second guessing thing...so town)

In the process of this I started reading tierce as town. It's not as strong as the falcon town read, but there are little bits of language that she's using that points more to her being town. She is a bit lazy as scum, and she does, as scum, do a lot of,the things that falcon accused her of. But there are some tonal things in the way she's responded to falcons rebuttal case that read more town, as does some of the self-meta. For instance in Post 258 various statements such as "this is too delicious", *rest chin on hands* I'll be here all day, "you're explanations do not satisfy my lust for scum blood", etc. reads town. There's a certain charismatic undertone present in her town games that is lacking in her scum games. It's a similar type of thing in regfans, maguas and empires town vs. scum games. It's kind of hard to replicate, so if you are here tierce my bonnets off to you too.

The way that tierce attempted to assess my motivations for being an alt joining this game read town too. I think as scum shed just not bother with it in the way that she did,would probably go about it in a different way if she did bring it up at all. Also, I really do think she'd have taken advantage of my awkward start into the game as it could have totally been exploited, but she didn't. Oh crap there's something else too...damn I'm tired. Oh the way she's treating the scum read on tug. It just doesn't read to me as smarmy scum read on town...she actually sounds delighted in their potential scum flip.

Oh and Post 334 is a town post, but especially Post 358 is a capital T town post. And while. Could be falling into the "this sounds like me" trap...it does. I don't know how many times I have made a variant of this post when someone is claiming I'm not playing to my town meta when I am in fact town. It's frustrating to be told you're not playing to your town meta when in fact you are. I'm reading that frustration here.

So basically overall I read both falcon and tierce as town. And my town read on parama stays.

Everything else is kinda In Flux at the moment. So I'd really like it if no one hammered before tomorrow afternoon when I get a chance to assess everything else.

I don't have a strong read on the tug slot anymore. Majiffy hates being scum and what is also shown in the link he provided Thor forgets to log into his hydra accounts and he is the more capable of the two at scum. It makes no sense for jiffy as either alignment to sheep. Hell act like an ass as either alignment and be intensely anti-town and refuse to actually work with town no matter what but as town he usually has some sort of less than flimsy read. But he can usually come across as town and he's just coming across eeyor.

Trevor is PFFT. Don't like how he makes sure to say that he's also interested in voting konowa but doesn't vote him. And konowa has not only been missing from this thread but has really put in next to nothing here.

Leafsnail is still prob town but is still making me hesitate for reasons mentioned before...I think anyway.

Okay *sleep*

[Aeris]

It's kind of hard to replicate, so if you are here tierce my bonnets off to you too.

Don't promise things you can't do. No bonnet, etc.

Spoiler: We can fix this, though!

(You're welcome.)

Oh my gods that is so cute. I'm totally making that my new avatar. And if you or falcon flip scum, I'll change it back. Yes, I am that easily amused.

[Aeris]

Just read through TUG's iso and it is atrocious. There's a severe lack of scumhunting, especially from the Jiff end, not a whole lot of internal consistency. We're keeping up in the qt...don't have time...keeping up in the qt...don't know where Thor is...keeping up in the qt...that was thors read not mine I don't know why he thought that... Then there the idiotic beauty of a semantic debate and the let's insult everyone for stupid reasons and hope that makes me look town attempt.

I'm *_* close to hammering as a public service to the town and not care if they flip town at all.

[Aeris]

Konowa is lacking some engagement in the game, but is showing more scumhunting effort than tug. Read them back to back though. I'd say the fact that I don't want to use konowas avatar for target practice makes him infinitely better.

[Aeris]

Do you have a town read on tug, falcon?

[Aeris]

And from his mouth...from the game so graciously linked by majiffy: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4419533

[Aeris]

Fixed! I am now properly attired and fit to be seen in public.

[Aeris]

I'm *_* close to hammering as a public service to the town and not care if they flip town at all.

Do you think TUG is scum or are you intending to vote him on policy

I wrote a whole paragraph above that sentence in which I talk about what I don't like about their iso. I do think they have a decent chance to flip scum, but their play is really odd. They can both play better than this as either alignment, though neither of them like playing scum so that's meh.

But I'm not going to deny that theres a part of me that thinks town would benefit from their lynch even if they're town, though I think there's a small chance for that, which is where that statement comes from, so I won't feel my normal "crap" feeling I normally have after a mislynch if they're town.

[Aeris]

^^ me too! I was hoping to get back to this game tonight, but busy weekend.

UNVOTE:

I can't decide if I want to hammer thorjiffy right now, so I'm going to sleep on it. I'll ever put my vote back on konowa or hammer when I wake up.

[Aeris]

Konowa - why have you not mentioned Trevor once the entire game? What do you think about his hammer yesterday?

Trevor - id like for you to explain your thought process. Why did you think you were a contender for lynch? Why did you hammer when you had stated more than once you had a town read on tug and you weren't going to hammer? Especially before more conversation could be had?

Leaf - I do tend to hesitate before lynches to make sure I have the right one. I forgot we didn't need majority for this one, yes I know it was discussed on page one. I said I wouldn't care if they were mislynched, and I don't. Majiffy was playing horribly, but that still doesn't mean that I wouldn't prefer a scum lynch over someone I wouldn't lose tears over not having. I unvoted konowa before I went to bed on the off chance tug was scum, logged and and got a konowa lynch instead of themselves. What I was thinking might happen to konowa actually ended up happening to tug. But again, why arent you trying to assess motives? You're still doing what you've been doing since early day one - trying to make things look scummy wihtout assessing motives.

I'm glad I get to keep my bonnet.

I have some things to look at, tomorrow though, tonight *sleep*

[Aeris]

Oh forgot

VOTE: konowa

[Aeris]

Trevor - id like for you to explain your thought process. Why did you think you were a contender for lynch? Why did you hammer when you had stated more than once you had a town read on tug and you weren't going to hammer? Especially before more conversation could be had?

Trevor: Did you think that TUG was probably going to be lynched without your hammer? If so, why hammer? If not, was it because of ignorance of the rules or a belief that you would be lynched? Who do you think was likely to lynch you?

The Konowa lynch had no support and wasn't going to get through. Yes, I didn't want TUG lynched, but there was a possibility of him being scum. I thought he was likely to get lynched, but I was unsure about my own safety as no one has really given a true read on me yet.

I guess I'm just still confused. Did you read the thread? When i took my vote off, I said it was either going back on konowa or I'd hammer tug. Before that falcon was arguing for konowa to be scum and against a tug lynch. There wasn't really any discussion for a you lynch so idiot know why you would expect that?

When I removed my vote it put konowa at L-3. In the case of me putting my vote back on Konowa, Konowa would have been at L-2. If TUG would have logged back on, they would have most likely put their vote on Konowa as the most likely counterwagon to themselves, especially as they didn't have a town read on him at all. That would have put both at L-1 and parama would have had to choose between the two. Or someone on one wagon would have had to move to the other. I just don't get at all why you thought you were preserving yourself. What it looks like to me is that you were trying to save konowa.

[Aeris]

* I don't...I swear I wasn't calling you an idiot...damn auto correct.

[Aeris]

]Konowa

why have you not mentioned Trevor once the entire game? What do you think about his hammer yesterday?

*

Also, konowa, I'd like your top two scum reads with reasoning. Please and thank you.

[Aeris]

I had a dream about this game last night. Tierce and parama were scum and falcon was yelling at me in the dead qt for still having them as town reads.

I've had mafia dreams before, but never about an actual ongoing game.

[Aeris]

Oh cfj is still and I'm interested in his comments on konowa when he makes them.

I looked into Trevor and noticed that he's been mislynched day one several times, so now I'm wondering if his self-preservation during the day one lynch is due to that or to him trying to save konowa as I previously thought.

[Aeris]

*cfj is still town. I don't know whatmy problem is

[Aeris]

Do you have a town read on konowa? If so, why?

Still waiting to hear cfj's comments on konowa.

[Aeris]

Prod dodge.

Family's gone so can get back to this game in a little while.

[Aeris]

I promise I will actually spend more time on this game tomorrow and won't let myself get distracted.

Reading through Trevor, I noticed something puzzling though.

He says in Post 120 that aceofspades is too easy, no scum motivation.
He says in Post 162 that Leafsnail and tierce are town. And he won't hammer parama.
He says in Post 226 that he'll join any convincing wagon that is not tug/parama/aceofspades. What happened to his town reads on tierce and Leafsnail? He only had one post between the two and only interacted with me and falcon and was voting falcon.
He votes Leafsnail in Post 302 for a post that he thinks reads fake about leaf attacking parama and says he's also interested in lynching konowa.

He votes konowa later and then does the self-preservation thing in voting tug (who he previously said he wouldn't vote for)

Mainly what's bothering me is his seemingly forgetting that he had given town reads to Leafsnail and tierce when he gave his list of whose wagon he wouldn't join. I don't have a problem with the lack of consistency necessarily, but it doesn't read very organic. It's almost as if he's forgetting who he's given town reads to and is throwing out names for the sake of it.

[Aeris]

Hrm...I stayed up way too late this morning re-reading this game. I have a few things to do before I look at a couple things that. Othered me again.

I already posted the thing that bothered me about Trevor.

Leafsnail - do you realize that you have consistently pushed parama and tierce since rvs? You've pushed on other people but this has been a constant. This is somewhat worrisome to me as it looks manufactured. The only town read you've given was falcon before he claimed IC.

When rereading the early game I got paranoid of tierce again until I got to the part where I started ready her as town again. And interestingly enough felt even better about her as she was self-metaing. the thing is tierce does do this as town so I'm not sure where cfj is getting her meta that she wouldn't. As town, she spends a lot of time questioning people about their scum read of her and explaining why theyre wrong about their read, even when it's only one person. You can see this is mafia behind the maiden, and adwd when she got fed up with herself for trying to prove herself town to the one person in the game who was scum reading her. Yes, when you know your meta ou can manipulate it to an extent, but often not in a way that reads genuine. So, for instance, in abarat she attempted to break some of her scum meta of ignoring partners by bussing a partner, but if you read her defense of herself when she was accused of ignoring the game and using the excuses of being busy, she fought back over their accusations of her lying and defended her integrity but didn't really defend herself by showing why she couldn't possible be scum there the way she is here. Seriously all of her play regarding that reads town, and I just don't see her being able to genuinely imitate her town self in this game when she hasn't been able to do it in rather recent scum games. (bonnet tipping still applies)

I did get a little worried about cfj, but I'm taking Stefan's going after tug as somewhat of a town tell. Both Thor and majiffy can be quite pains when you scum read them, especially Thor. And Stefan has experience with both of them. I'm just not sure if I see scum!stefan going after Thor immediately knowing what it would bring him if Thor would have actually gotten online. I do need to read through cfj some a bit more as one of Trevor's constants has been that slot as town.

Though cfj something peaked my curiosity. In your catchup Post 575 you say that if I'm scum with anyone it's tierce. You also say that's rather unlikely, but could you explain your thought process behind that please?

I'm still solid on my townreads of parama and tierce. Cfj is still probably town though I need to read over the stuff from today and want to iso him again and read through and think about the current argument. I just skimmed the stuff from today. I'll look back at that in a little while but I just woke up and really want some

breakfast

lunch.

[Aeris]

Though cfj something peaked my curiosity. In your catchup Post 575 you say that if I'm scum with anyone it's tierce. You also say that's rather unlikely, but could you explain your thought process behind that please?

It's basically the way that you go back and forth on her early on while simultaneously defending her; it's the sort of interaction I'd expect you as scum to have with her if you were worried that she might be lynched. (Especially as some of your reasoning for her as town, e.g. in 464, is the sort of thing I consider a scumtell; pushing an argument with charisma rather than logic is something that frequently happens from scum, and I actually consider this a very strong personal scumtell for some players, such as DGB. However, Tierce is not one of them.)

BTW, about Tierce questioning people on scumreads on her; you're right, she does do that as town. There's just a difference between a player trying to explain why a scumread on them is wrong, and a player pushing back against someone because they seem likely to form a scum read on them.

(A slightly related point here: Tierce did push back against me calling her town, but it was just one post and then she dropped the issue. Then she picked it back up after she realised I was still leaning scum on her. If she was reading me as scum from it, which is reasonable, I'd have expected her to push immediately rather than only when it seemed like her life might potentially be in danger.)

I didn't say she pushes an argument with charisma, I said there's a charismatic undertone when she's town that is hard to replicate when she's scum. It's in the way she makes cases and responds to people that is different. For instance: scum case v town case. this is her defending herself as town v her responding to a case against her as scum and her scum response to accusations of lurking in the spoiler Note that her indignation is over what she thinks is a slight to her integrity as an ethical player, not at the question of her alignment.

check me out using meta...hope I did it right

What I'm seeing is far more indicative of her town play over her scum play, where she actually doesn't get caught up defending herself as much or in the same way she does when she's town.

I'm not sure what you mean by going back and forth on her early on while simultaneously defending her. I had an initial gut leaning scum read on her that didn't turn into a town read until her interaction with falcon, and I think that's pretty apparent in the thread.

Why I wanted your thought process on the possibility, even unlikely, of us being partners is because I think if I were scum I'd be more likely to be other peoples partners way before tierce's. Her outing that I'm an alt and our discussion about that, along with correcting people on me not being a newbie, would be unnecessarily risky and rather silly if we were partners...or at least I would think so anyway so it was a bit surprising for you to make the suggestion.

[Aeris]

before I look at a couple things that. Othered me again.

Stay away from the wights. Being Othered is not a good life plan.

Good thing I keep dragon glass with me at all times.

[Aeris]

I'm making my way here...I'm making my way here.

[Aeris]

F-16 was probably impressed with Empire's meta case and wanted to do the same, but he got it horribly wrong.

I think he remembered your scum case against him in pastors and got paranoid that it was a repeat of a case. Maybe it's an extra effect of being an IC?

i wouldn't know the role gods hate me

. In any case, I think that fueled part of his case along with empires case.

[Aeris]

Oh, forgot to mention, I looked through Stefan because I thought it was a bit of a town tell that he went after tug upon replacing in. I thought he was a bit of a meeker player than he actually is though, because in blood bowl mafia he was scum reading glork upon replacing in. I don't know what to make of that though because that beans fritters flaps post read townish.

[Aeris]

^^^as scum there in blood bowl.

[Aeris]

Still catching up...on page 21.

Post 83 comes across as Aeris admitting to post just to get a post in.

How do you get that? And shouldn't that make you be suspecting me more than you are?

Btw I think that post is pretty clear that I missed something that made my argument less valid and realized I shouldn't be trying than just posting to post.

Not liking Parama so far. Also do not like Leafsnail's willing to policy lynch aceofspades.

Aeris appear to not know what the game mechanic is....as pointed out by F16.

Why aren't you liking parama?

Why are you opposed to lynching someone who is not playing the game? Do you have a general policy against policy lynches?

Why was me mistaking when rarefaction happens (note not that I didn't know what the game mechanic meant) mean? What was the purpose of pointing it out?

Why are you just commenting on random stuff but not actually giving any reads or evaluations? Like who do you think are scum/town? You've left yourself an awful lot of room here, and I'm not really seeing an attempt to make out the scum here.

[Aeris]

Sorry got distracted.

I was also trying to solidify my townreads. I'm still good with my townreads on parama and tierce. Really the only reason I'd reconsider either is if we ended up in rarefaction together. (I can sympathisize with cfj over tierce though. She's not obvtown in the way that one would consider someone obvtown, but she's quite town by the way she reacts to people in this game. Seriously, I'd have expected scum!tierce to have given up defending herself by now.)

I want my third one to be cfj, but this one is weaker. And sometimes I start to doubt myself. (oh but the read is stronger after his latest wall)

Whenever I think of the game, I think that scum is between konowa, fitz, Leafsnail. I haven't done partnership analysis and probably won't until we get a flip, but I don't really see any reason why none of these three couldn't be partnered with each other. I know that parama thinks konowa is town due totrevors push but that could easily be done as scum too. He's always suggesting he'd rather have leaf votd more,and didn't vote konowa u til after I called him out for not voting konowa but saying he wanted to. His hammer of tug on day one could be read as trying to save konowa also, or he wanted us to think that and with all the attention he gave to Leafsnail I wonder about that too. The only thing that gives me pause on either of these is his constant town read of cfj's slot. And that's partially in light of his forgetting other town reads he gave. (Hrm I did say I wasn't doing partner analysis until a flip didn't I?)

So, really I'm perfectly fine lynching konowa or havingfitz today and to a lesser extent Leafsnail. And as long as my town reads are correct, this game is good. And maybe I have been a bit sloppy of a player and haven't pushed enough. I do think that konowa is scum and think its odd that he's pushing at tierce right now but hasn't engaged with me at all when I've been voting him since early day one.

Hmmm...Can one of you voting tierce please unvote? When fitz gets on and sees that it's between him and tierce, he's going to vote tierce.

I'm going to crash now. Id put my vote on fitz, but fitz isn't going to vote himself, and I'm hoping one of you will make tierce not at l-1 so we can continue discussion tomorrow (today). So, I'll leave my second scum read at l-2 in hopes that someone will do that.

For anyone who is town reading konowa or the fitz slot, can you explain why?

Okay, I'll be back after I wake up.

[Aeris]

Agree with you. If F16 made rarefaction as scum he would've been autolynch. So Trevor saying he's town because of the town hammer doesn't make sense. Also, Trevor voting me yesterday then switching because my wagon wasn't gaining traction and then voting Leaf today doesn't make sense as Town.

Konowa..what about this? Why aren't you voting fitz when this major action he made doesn't read town to you?

[Aeris]

So I should probably reread D1 in regards to Trevor/Tierce and see if it makes sense.

How so? One of my problems with you is ou seem to keep throwing up pairs but not giving reasoning behind them.

If tierce and Trevor are partners, why did he forget his town read on her?

[Aeris]

No.

What I'm saying is that if you've read my two completed scum games you would see that I suck as scum and that I am really passive and just comment instead of trying to engage. Meta queen, I know you've read Steam Library Madness.

Based on our play together, do you think I would pull(really don't know the word I'm looking for here) one scum game for meta reasons?

Went back and read that, don't see that interpretation of your scum game really. Although I will note that, until this evening, that has been indicative of your play here.

Didn't I say I was going to bed?

[Aeris]

I don't even know what to ask. What are your strongest reads? I guess. I mean I think you covered it all in your posts.

If you are lynched here and are town

i want to keep my bonnet and don't want to take a shame shower so please be so

, who do you think should least likely be lynched in rarefaction?

I have a strong townread of parama, is that one baseless? I'd like to think not and that I can actually town read people. So, if you get lynched, I need another town read, and I do think the bean fritter flaps thing reads townish for cfj being town. And part of me thinks Leafsnail is town, so I'm kind of at a loss if it's not konowa/fitz.

Idk...I'm really going to bed now. I'd like any insight you have o offer and hope that leaf will unvote, since he hould be round soon, so we can discuss things in the ftrnoon.

[Aeris]

}^*#*^|.!>]>€>|€]€{€|€|'wnewkdndjd

[Aeris]

I feel like my next move is forced with Tierce and I the frontrunners. I'm not scum so any alternative to me at least has a chance of being scum. Plus I don't think the Tierce focus from F16 was totally unwarranted.

VOTE: Tierce

Do you realize your predecessor pulled the same exact crap yesterday. You ou,don't be bothered to wait a little until the afternoon and actually get scum lynched?

[Aeris]

You know...I hate to say I told you so but I fucking told you so.

This is great, I'm stuck in a cell with strong scum read and lesser scum read. though at least my partnership theories for the two of them is gone.

Okay I'm really going to bed now...the birds are chirping and the sun is coming out...Bleh.

[Aeris]

The motivation on my vote was I did not want to be lynched and it looked like it was going to be me (????) or Tierce. What is hard to understand about that? And Tierce had had enough suspicions cast her way throughout the day that hammering her and fingers crossed

hitting town

was a lot more preferable to me being the day's mislynch. When I went to bed last night I had one vote on me from someone I was suspecting (Parama) and about 4-5 pages still to read through. Then I get on this morning to find Tierce voting me (from seemingly out of nowhere from what I recalled) and saying I was at L-1. Panic set in at that point and with one previous voter (you) and at least one I seem to recall expressing suspicions towards this slot (Konowa) not on my wagon I was not going to fcuk around and try to generate a wagon on Parama or Konowa with less than a day remaining.

So Parama...how about you get your vote off me and tell me (and cfj) why you are voting me?

So, you are saying you saw tierce vote you and immediately return voted because you thought you were at L-1? Did you not notice the vote count less than 10 posts before your vote that had you at l-2?

I figure you meant scum in the bolded

I'm not doing anything in this game until cfj shows up. If he's scum, he'll just hammer someone so there really isn't any use until we see what he's going to do.

[Aeris]

I don't need a prod. I'll post later tonight.

[Aeris]

@mod

the deadline is just for one cell right? Or do we have to have both completed by the deadline or any one in particular?

[Aeris]

Okay so took a much needed step back from the game though I don't know that it actually helped. I'm still quite a bit annoyed at the tierce mislynch because I felt quite good about that town read and would much rather have lynched one of my scum reads to make this process a little less unpleasant. I'm not sure why I thought this was a cool mechanic when I hate being in lylo, maybe if the IC hadn't had to claim it would be less nerve wracking but eh.

Havingfitz - here's my problem with your whole approach here. Your intro post was rather lackluster as it just seemed to comment on things without any real analysis and when you do it's rather shallow and nitpicky.

The big problem is your slot's propensity for quick hammers in self preservation. Your predecessor's was bad enough, but you coming in to do the same exact thing makes no sense from town whatsoever. You saw how town reacted to Trevor's hammer. If you read day one completely, which your lame catchup post says you did, you should know that was one of the main reasons for the suspicion on your slot town-wide. You should know that a couple here considered it unacceptable for your predecessor to do that. And what do you do? This makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. You can't even claim not to know how important it was to get things right today because you (incorrectly) pointed out I didn't know the game mechanic. So, you knew the game mechanic.

And quite frankly, I don't buy the panic coming from town you. Didn't you, as town in experimental, have the presence of mind to come up with an clever twist on your role to ensure town would win? I just really can't see you panicking and deciding to quick hammer tierce, as town, knowing the importance of the game mechanic, and after seeing that I had asked someone to unvote tierce so that we could have conversation in the afternoon when other people came around. You say you suspected tierce, I call that bs. You barely mention tierce in your catchup post, you didn't engage or interact with her at all. Did you read any of my posts in which I talk about why tierce is town? Your catchup post covers day one, and I know my first description is there.

So, basically, you're trying to say that you, town havingfitz with a start date not yesterday thought it would be a good idea to run in here and cut off all chance for conversation before deadline when it was made clear that discussion was still to be had because you were scared of getting lynched knowing that it would viewed as a scummy as hell action AND knowing that if we went into rarefaction a mislynch loses town the game?

You know what was a town reaction to possibly getting lynched in this scenario? Tierce's. Her asking me if I wanted any insight from her before I left because it looked like she was going to be the lynch was a town reaction. Rushing in here and hammering without even talking to the two people who were actually around, one being the one you voted was not. And you know this because your not new and youre not a vi. I get it, getting mislynched sucks, but when you know that youre a danger to town by being a live its time to cut your pride and deal with it. And you know what makes it worse, is that you had a chance to not even be lynched that day. It was still open. You were a contender, but no way a certainty. And you say you panicked because several people and expressed willingness to vote you, DID YOU SOMEHOW THINK THAT WOULD GO AWAY WHENYOU QUICKHAMMERED??? People don't generally decide to stop suspecting someone when they do something incredibly anti-town, it tends to make things worse. And you know this because you're not a moron. So I just can't possibly see how you're town here.

All right so let's gets to your VCA. Couple things first. Ironically, parama wasn't lynched because your predecessor thought he was obvtown and wouldn't hammer him. Parama mistakenly voted me; if you would notice he corrected himself in the next post. His vote on ace was also rather warranted. Ace popped in said nothing, then in his next post jumped on the parama wagon. It was a scummy action (beans, fritters, flaps read town, but still). You're not looking at the reasons for the votes. This is probably why I hate VCA as it can be not only misleading but manipulated. And quite frankly, though I think parama was wrong in regards to falcon because I think he has decent reads quite often, I can sympathize. I've pushed for the lynch of someone with a power role when I didn't believe it; I've also stayed on the lynch or not fought against a lynch of someone with a role who I thought was more dangerous to town overall. But this is getting into MD territory, so you might not like the action but is it scum motivated.

You are right...there was no need for Trevor to hammer as deadline was not far away and as he had clarified the plurality issue page one he shouldn't have been confused. And no you can't answer for your predecessor, but you could have tried to not do the same damn thing he did. Also, I want to point out how cute it is that you make sure to mention that parama said he would hammer tug when deadline neared despite having a town read on tug. Hey, you know what? Your predecessor actually did that. He said he wouldn't hammer tug, then he said he would join any wagon EXCEPT parama/tug/ace. But he actually hammered out of self preservation, when he wasnt even actually in any danger. So, why are you bringing that point up when your slot committed the act you're trying to use against parama for claiming he would do?

Pertaining to your parama being scum avoiding the mislynches. That's a load of bs. I see people tout this crap all the time without actually looking at the circumstances. When scum avoid getting on mislynches, they're usually goading one mislynch while not being on it or not commenting on it so they can use it against people later. They arent pisspants scared to be on a mislynch as long as they have reaosn, not competent players anyway. And I would like to point out, that you are using Parama's early vote on tug, then his vote on FF, which should both indicate a willingness to be on mislynches against him while simultaneously saying he's avoiding being on mislynches while at the same time he's been voting for you, who you are claiming is town, so where is the fear of the mislynch?

I also want to point out that your "parama avoids another mislynch due to his tunnel on you" DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT YOUR QUICK HAMMER ON TIERCE WHICH PREVENTED DISCUSSION AND A PROPER LYNCH TO TAKE PLACE. Oh and hey guess what? You've been on both mislynches, so you're in the same level with everyone else. How can you actually try to make determinations about other peoples scumminess due to their votes when your voting pattern is the same?

Tl;dr: I don't want to see this crap analysis at numbers that looks more like a manipulation. I want to see analysis of the game. But I can't see how your actions are town motivated in any way, shape or form, but if you are, on the off chance town, thanks for helping us lose.

That turned out longer than I thought. Sorry

[Aeris]

Okay, parama still reads town to me. (I read through the ilovecats meta you provided and it's one of the most fun Isos I've ever read btw, I read it as a crazy carnival cartoon).

I'm not saying that parama has been the most protwn person in the world, but his actions don't ring scum to me. He could have easily pushed on Trevor early day one, and it was a perfectly acceptable reason for him to push on Trevor but he pulled back. He could have easily joined in on the tug push, because lets face it, they were being insufferable, but he didn't. He could have easily pushed on tierce early day one when leaf and I were arguing with her, but didn't. He waited until the end of the last day to say that he was sstarting to scum read her and unvoted leaf. His wanting to lynch falcon even more after tug voted ace rings town. His saying that he's pissed be ause we lynched town on day one so Nyah reads town.

Really the only thing that makes me paranoid about parama is leafsnails opening vote and comment on parama, which does seem kind of weird in Post 6. But that seems really sloppy for either of them.

[Aeris]

I was hoping to get to my own cell, but it's late...I've been working all day...I'll try to get to this in depth tomorrow if I have a chance, but a new semester starts on Monday and I have a great deal to finish before then.

[Aeris]

I'll be able to comment on anything that's going on, but re_reading might not happen until after the weekend...okay going to bed now.

[Aeris]

I'll respond to you in a bit havingfitz, but a way better use of your time would be to analyze the game, just saying.

Here is the end of day one. Now, tell me again how Trevor's action wasn't met with suspicion. Not one person who was present looked at it positively. So, yeah, you continuing your predecessor's streak of rushing in to lynch anyone who wasn't him looks suspect as hell.

OK, no one is budging on the Konowa wagon. With the deadline coming up, I'm not getting lynched over TUG. Going to be out for most of Saturday.

Vote: TUG

So I won't hunt trough his iso anymore.
Trevor: Was selfpresurvation your main reason for the hammer?

yes

StefanB is very Town. Or at least, not scum with Trevor or Thorjiffy, ever. This line here:

Trevor: Was selfpresurvation your main reason for the hammer?

It makes absolutely no sense for scum with Trevor or scum with the lynchee(s?) to say this, as the extra knowledge he'd have regarding the alignment of the people involved would make this question preeeetty pointless. I'd also argue that he's not scum, period, because knowing TwoUpstandingGentlemen's alignment, whatever it is (which he would as scum), is enough by itself to make the question pointless. It works much better as a genuine line of inquiry + curiosity as Town than as an empty question for scum.

Vi is not around at present.

Wooo knowing your mod's schedule.

If you want to talk more before Night, there is a little time.

With the deadline coming up, I'm not getting lynched over TUG.

Powerlynch this guy tomorrow thanks

Leaf: It is normal to hesitate before a lynch and question if it is the right one.

Yeah but it was odd considering Aeris' comments on the matter. What Trevor just did is way worse and pretty much unjustifiable though

[Aeris]

For the gods sake who cares if I over spoke on the damn streak. If you drop happen to be town, Fucking do something besides whining and analyze the damn game with something other than vca's that don't show a damn bit of analysis of the game and people's motivations.

I'm not going to be convinced you're town because you tell me to open my mind and you downplay the horrendously anti-town actions of both you and your predecessor. If you're town, act like it.

[Aeris]

I'm done with you.

[Aeris]

For the gods sake who cares if I over spoke on the damn streak. If you drop happen to be town, Fucking do something besides whining and analyze the damn game with something other than vca's that don't show a damn bit of analysis of the game and people's motivations.

I'm not going to be convinced you're town because you tell me to open my mind and you downplay the horrendously anti-town actions of both you and your predecessor. If you're town, act like it.

[Aeris]

Posting and not hammering...looking back.

[Aeris]

mod

not that it matters too much but I think it's Leafsnail voting konowa.

[Aeris]

BOOM BABY! That feels good. My big regret is not going after trevor earlier, either with parama on day two Or falcond day one. I'm really super happy that there was something to that "forgetting his townreads". I mean townies can do it to but that was really odd.

I also didn't think there was anything town about his interaction with me. Also super happy to be right about my town reads this game.

NOT happy to be in this cell. I've had the strongest scum read on konowa all game, but I've also had a working scum read on leaf this game to. I will definitely need some help with this one. School starts back tomorrow so my time might be limited for the next couple days depending on what things need to be taken care of. I'll be around, just looking at the game in depth probably won't happen.

Okay off to play nerdy games.

Woooooooo! Nice job you guys!

[Aeris]

Oh...duh...this is me feeling stupid. I just woke up

[Aeris]

Was reading through Isos this morning. Quick note for myself to look at later in context. Leaf votes for Trevor both days but unvoted and votes someone else once trevor receives another vote.

Also, both scum were on both mislynches...so much for VCA :p

[Aeris]

Just a quick iioa to look at later. All I'll have time for the next couple days are little snippets of things for me to look at later.

Leaf votes Trevor on day one in Post 318 for what seems to be a pressure vote in response to Trevor's vote on leaf in Post 302 and to get him to explain his obvtown parama read. tug sheeps leaf in and votes Trevor. In [post=396] leaf unvotes Trevor ns votes tug for Sheeping him onto a read they called unsettling but not noteworthy. (no one else voted Trevor in between this)

Day two leaf votes Trevor in Post 545 presumably for his hammer the day before since he stated at the end of the day it was unjustifiable. Parama votes trevor in Post 550 and in Post 554 leaf unvotes Trevor and votes parama for saying he wouldn't do anything else that day.

[Aeris]

Konowa did not vote or mention Trevor day one at all. Day two he didn't vote him either, but he did talk about him more.

[Aeris]

Leafsnail - do you realize that both days when you voted for Trevor, you unvoted him and voted the person who followed you onto Trevor?

Hmm...I need to finish reading through Trevor/fitz and thinking about a few things. Both leaf and konowa have things I'm considering. I'll have time to make a proper post tomorrow.

[Aeris]

Why are you doing this to me.

Do what

Okay, I think I have everything done that has to be done tonight, so I can actually do something with this game. I will be around more from now until deadline day too.

[Aeris]

I will also apologize in advance for the thought dump that will occur in a bit as there are some things I've been thinking about and I don't really have a clear idea one way or the other.

[Aeris]

Oh also vodka...wheeee

[Aeris]

Okay let's start with konowa. I've had the strongest scum read on him all game, and he's both dead confirmed town thought he was scum. Why I originally had a scum read on konowa was because he seemingly parked his vote on me day one, and I thought it was a safe place to park it as it was unlikely to really lead to anything and I did have a really awkward start to the game, and he mostly talked from the sidelines. What I do like about his early game is the way he pushed tierce early day one. Specifically Posts like Post 265, though I haven't decided whether or not I like or dislike the falcon part. He gives reasons for why he thinks falcons response to tierce is scummy, but it also looks like piggybacking off of tierce's case and not looking at how falcons response to tierce was actually more town than scummy. I do like that he just uses gut for tug for the second person though. Scum typically try to show their work some and are less likely to use "gut" for reasons.

Although I hate doing it, I'll look at konowa's last scum game or two that was referenced. Bleh.

I like his asking tierce if shes ever planned a game breaking strategy as scum in Post 312.

What I don't like about day one is his complete lack of interaction with Trevor. He doesn't even mention him once. He doesn't interact with the cfj slot either though.

Still, he ignored the "rvs" vote on him by Trevor as well as what falcon was saying about Trevor and their back and forth.

On day two he started talking about Trevor but only after he was asked. On day two, he started going through this whole teams scenario. His what about this team seem mostly baseless and seeing what would stick, but also without a clear plan, which I would more expect from scum. I also liked Post 531, seemed earnest.

In Post 551 he puts together his tierce/Trevor or tierce/leaf teams. Then decides its tierce/Leafsnail in Post 573 then in Post 624 says its most likely leaf/ Trevor while still thinking that tierce/leaf is possible and votes leaf. One of the reasons he thinks leaf/trevor is leaf's ignoring of Trevor (frustratingly enough konowa has also been ignoring Trevor). He does ask leaf a very valid question in Post 630 regarding why leafs scum read on Trevor disappeared because it's something that's been puzzling me as well. His Post 644 comes across rather townish though and supports his earlier suspicion about tierce/leaf.

His Post 667 has a point too as leafs question was rather leading. I find a lot of the "would you agree" type questions to be that way though. They almost demand that you agree with the way the question is phrased rather than ask for your actual viewpoint.

What I don't like is that he says he doesn't like the tierce push in Post 723 but ends up voting her. However, I kinda read his interaction with tierce as townish.

wrong wrong wrong why does no one ever listen to me but townish

. Post 752 onwards reads townish to me. Especially Post 773 Bleh and 774. Really, I don't know why leaf said that konowa came out of his interaction with tierce looking bad, a lot of it reads townie to me.

Don't know why he asked who fitz was scum with to parama in Post 727 when he just said in Post 724 that he thought it was leaf/fitz.

I liked Post 895 and I know cfj gave konowa a hard time for not voting in Post 896 but I actually really liked it. I know there's no mathematical reason not to do it, but not just automatically cross voting is town motivated because you don't actually know. It can just as easily come from scum, but waiting to see if the game would end anyway suggests you don't know for sure what's going to happen.

He makes a point inPost 912 with leaf not offering up his own reasons for why konowa/trevorfitz. It's one of the reasons tierce gave konowa an early town read on konowa as he offered up other reasons for tierce being scum than what falcon had said. (though us ause she used this as a positive it's very easy to use it against someone as a negative)

Tl;dr I'm not even sure. I'm starting to doubt my original strong scum read because of the things I mentioned I liked. I actually really like his interaction with tierce as it has a bit of indignation to it that reads rather genuine and what I would more expect from town, especially with the way he described his scum play. If he really is as passive as he says he is, I wouldn't expect the type of interaction with tierce that he has. Like especially wrt things like Post 781 that "I'm glad you think I have no self respect. You are scum" this isn't the type of thing I expect someone who is a passive scum player to say. But as I said, I'll read thought the scum games he referenced to see if that is true.

So, how the Trevor/fitz slot treated konowa:

Trevors opening "rvs" vote on konowa makes me feel twitchy. Sometimes scum, especially newer scum, feel the need to post their partner right off the bat for some reason. In Post 92 he says that konowa and leaf only post in questions. He spends most of his time arguing with falcon and calling him scum before he claims and he votes leaf in Post 302 and says he's also interested in lynching konowa (geeze it's almost like he predicted you guys would be in here together driving me insane). But he votes konowa in Post 470 for the "interest of time" after I complain about his being willing to lynch konowa but not voting him, but in his next post is his vote for TUG after saying he wouldn't vote him and out of "self-preservation".

At the beginning of the day he's voting leaf again, but says in Post 577 that konowa is the second scum, and in his last Post 592 he votes konowa but says we should get leaf next.

i hate you

When fitz replaces in he thinks konowa was suspect for his early tug push and notes that parama considered the konowa wagon in Post 477 and thinks konowa is the most suspicious for being on the tug mislynch.

In Post 855 he says "probably the only way I would suspect aeris more than either leaf or konowa is if konowa had flipped already...and had turned out to be town". Why just konowa flipping already? Why not either of them?

His only interaction with konowa is asking him why he would hammer leaf over me in our cell in his last post.

Tl;dr I'm not overly fond of the interaction that slot had towards konowa. I hate the rvs vote. I hate that he would vote leaf but say he wanted konowa (admittedly this wouldn't be anything at all if I weren't trying to decide between them though). And what I know. Of havingfitz is that he tends to try to defend his partners, keep them from getting lynched, so his edging slightly towards konowa makes me wonder. However, since his VCA was structured to make parama look scummy and he tried to go for the tired one on and one off routine there wasn't much he could do.

Bleh...idk. Konowa's play is largely not here or really engaged but there are some pretty townie aspects as well. Tomorrow I'll see if I can make my way through one of his scum games to see his assessment of his meta, also I'll try to go through Trevor's to see how he treats partners.

[Aeris]

Okay, I'll look at leaf tomorrow, and read through at least one of those damn scum games, but if either cfj or parama have anything to add I'm all ears!

Did I mention how much I hate lylo???????

[Aeris]

okay never mind sleep.

My frustration with leaf's early play is the same as it was. It looks like he was trying to force a parama/tierce team from the get go, and that never really went away. His first two posts/votes were on parama/tierce. I did like in Post 53 when he admitted that his pushes were weak, and he liked to see responses though. He from the start didn't seem to be looking for motivations (something that konowa picks up on later, but i'm kinda paranoid that he's using some of the same language I am

I'm really not self-absorbed I swear

.

He does confront Trevor in Post 252 over Trevor's scum read of falcon after he says he has a town read on falcon. Also, in that post he gives me a little bit of a hard time for not voting. He says it bothers him; he could have given me a much harder time for not voting though and it would have been a really easy thing for scum to do and go after. He also says in this post that he has scum reads on parama, tierce and konowa. I don't really get part of Post "315" though. He says "Your constant defense of Parama is idiotic and I would say scummy if there were a third mafia member in this game." Leaf has noted three people he thinks are potential scum by this point. Why would Trevor be the third one. Also, I had defended Parama as well, so why wasn't I scum for calling Parama town?

He next votes Trevor in Post 318 for pressure it seems. He also questions Konowa in that post, so I'm not sure exactly why he chose to vote Trevor over Konowa, except maybe for quasi-omgus?

I hate the leading "would you not agree" line in Post 325. And then the unvote of Trevor and vote onto TUG in Post 396 after he sheeped leaf. It seems out of place. (And convenient in light of doing the same thing day two)

In Post 400 he seems to use Tierce's reasoning for the tug vote/lynch, and in Post 424 seems like he's mostly voting tug for them sheeping leaf onto trevor. (This looks really suspicious today) But, Post 491 looks somewhat townie as it fits with his parama push.

At the end of day one, he seems to really believe that Trevor is scum. What I like sort of is his Post 538 at the start of day two and in the next post he votes Trevor as the person he finds the most scummy individually but again unvotes him as soon as soon as someone votes Trevor and votes that person in Post 554 then he put his scum team as parama/tierce in Post 563 I hate this amount of consistency because it feels manufactured. (I know I asked him about it before but the addition of konowa doesn't negate the extreme amount of consistency of the parama/tierce scum reads) My problem with the push on both is that it was easy to push on scummy behavior, but there really wasn't anything deeper although his constant lynch parama mantra feels somewhat genuine.

I don't get Konowa's push against Leaf for ignoring tierce in Post 624 as leaf says he hasn't ignored her at all. Don't really know what that's about, but i still have a problem with him thinking that parama was 100% obvious scum as he says in Post 628 , but Post 649 reads genuine. I hate his leading question in Post 664 though. It didn't read as let's lynch early as I can see the impetus for the reaction konowa tried to get from Tierce and it's something I've often seen from town.

Post 811 reads off. I don't like his "I would have changed my vote to Konowa" and then giving a run down of Tierce's arguments for a Konowa/Trevorfitz team. He went hard after fitz after that. Which there's nothing to really say, he had to. I don't like Post 820 as it looks like it's trying to plant Konowa in our minds, and there's really no indication that fitz did it to save Konowa. I know that I made that assumption for the day one hammer because it really did look that way. but, I'm not seeing it for the day two as there was one vote on Konowa, but I can see making it look like that was the intent.

He makes a point about Konowa in Post 893 though. Why did Konowa say he would hammer Leaf, but wouldn't vote him?

Tl;dr: Leaf is playing a really solid game no matter his alignment which makes this really difficult. I do not like at all that on both days he voted Trevor but then unvotes him and votes the people who vote Trevor after he does. He does explain why he votes them, but it does look rather odd now that we know Trevor is scum. It looks like he wants to be seen suspecting Trevor but doesn't want to actually go through with getting him lynched. I do like that he vote hops all over the place though as I tend to associate that kind of vote hopping and pressure with town. I do not like his extreme consistency with the parama/tierce scum reads; there doesn't seem to be a lot of second-guessing of those reads and since it starts so early it looks rather manufactured. The thing that leads me away from him being scum is his activity and his tendency to interact and vote nearly everyone. I'll, even though I hate it, read a scum game of his to see if there is any difference though in his town/scum play.

Trevor/fitz's interaction with Leaf:

As noted with Konowa in Post 92 Trevor says that leaf/konowa seem to be posting in questions, but a couple posts later Post 162 he calls leaf town and in Post 226 says he wont join any wagon that has tug/parama/cfj slot (what happened to the tierce/leaf town reads?). However, after falcon claims trevor votes leaf in Post 302 for thinking that leaf's Post 288 reads fake. His #1 scum read is Leaf according to Post 470 but he votes konowa in interest of time before hammering tug.

At the start of day he votes leaf in Post 512 and says his problem with trevor joining the tug wagon is basically a scumslip. What's weird is he votes leaf again in Post 577 and says that it's a konowa/leaf team. And then in his next post he switches to Konowa but says he wants us to promise to get Leaf next in Post 592

When fitz replaces in the only thing he says about leaf in his catchup Post 731 is that he doesn't like leaf's willingness to policy lynch aceofspades. There was not one comment on the tierce/leaf conversation or the leaf suspicion on parama and he decides konowa is scummier on the wagon (over leaf). He comments to Leaf in Post 814 concerning Leaf's comments to Parama about fitz being obvious scum..says he's in no way clear... He thinks that Konowa is most likely to be scum in our group in Post 841 , but says that leaf backing parama is tarnishing his town read in Post 849 wtf...everyone was backing a parama town read at that point, why single him out.

A bit bugged over fitz asking why leaf over aeris in Post 889 because really he said at one point I was the closest thing to confirmed town in my group, then he said he had no idea for our group, then he said he though konowa in our group, then this question, so I don't even know.

tl;dr: both their interaction with leaf is suspect. The one thing I wonder is would he forget that he gave a town read to his partner the way he did leaf? he gave leaf and tierce a town read in the same post, but leaf did ask him why, so hmm...but i'm of the mind that scum don't forget the reads they give to their partners and unless leaf's why question was a signal to him not to do that I don't know what to think. Trevor certainly danced around giving scum reads to both konowa and leafsnail and before he replaced out changed his vote to konowa with the caveat "get leafsnail next" It almost reads as though he didn't want to leave his vote on leafsnail for too long if he wasn't going to be around. Fitz also seemed to direct us towards konowa instead of leafsnail/seemed to be subtly protecting leafsnail which is somehting that I know he does with his partners. But he had to know he was getting lynched and really anything he says is wifom.

i'll try to read through a scum game of leafsnail's to tomorrow. Now that I have my overview of both of them down, yeah I know it's mostly jsut a summary, I can see what I can make of it this weekend.

[Aeris]

proddodge srry
I just have not been in a mafia mood lately :\

It's okay Please let me know your thoughts by the end of the weekend though.

[Aeris]

Thanks Leafsnail. I don't need any of your other games though, I'm really not a big fan of meta research anyway for games I don't have direct experience with and mostly wanted to look at partner interaction.

Bleh...leafsnails scum game isn't radically different from here. There area some aspects that are really similar. He did interact with one partner a lot and bussed and didn't talk about the other partner much.

But I read a recent scum game of Trevor's. micro 68 AND the very first thing he does is vote his partner in rvs. In his third post in ISo though when he thinks he's been hammered, he said for everyone to get his partner next. So his rvs vote on konowa follows that, but he pretty much equally gave suspicion to leaf and konowa, so hurt. But in open 392 he didn't vote his partner fitz right away, or at all, though he did put him in the scum team.

So, that was largely unhelpful I think. Though I'm still stuck on him giving leaf a town read in Post 162 . I didn't see him give a town read to his partner in either of the scum games I looked at, and the fact that he gives the town read but then turns around and pretty much forgets he gave that town read and goes after him is odd.

Oh, I wanna go back and look at something. Trevor maybe gave the town read to tierce and leaf basically calling their argument town v. Town. I think I remember tierce having a problem with how konowa approached the tierce/leaf thing. I'll look at that in a bit. I still need to look at konowa's scum game too to see how he interacts with partners.

[Aeris]

Okay read through konowas scum games. Bleh that wa unhelpful too. I don't think he's as passive in his scum games as he thinks he is, but I don't know his town game, so I'll read through that. He communicated with his partners more actually in the steam library game than he did with Trevor here. Also, he has more posts in this game than in his two scum games combined.

I'll read through that later, of I think about this game any more right now I'm goings to dissolve in a puddle of tears.

[Aeris]

Okay so I res through a couple of konowa's games and he is more involved as town. I'm disappoint. I don't know what to do.

I'll be around for the next two days, but really anyone please help. I might go mad.

[Aeris]

Okay so I res through a couple of konowa's games and he is more involved as town. I'm disappoint.

More involved than he is this game or more involved than he was in his scum games?

I'd say Konowa has been mostly pretty passive this game, and only really got "involved" when Tierce suggested a Konowa/Trevorfitz team. I'd argue that was out of necessity - when Tierce called that team Konowa had no choice but to make sure the lynch on her went through. I think that's compatible with a usually passive scum meta (stays passive when he isn't required to do anything, but jumps into action when threatened).

As town than he was as scum. I'm trying to figure out in relation to his game here. I do agree his day one play was largely passive and the issue with tierce was one instance when he broke out of that.

I saw this comment earlier and I've been trying to figure out what I think about the first question. Theres something that is bugging me about it but I can't quite put it into words.

[Aeris]

PARAMA - If I go with my gut, I agree with you, and I've had a scum read on Konowa all game.

Basically if I look at rvs, I'd go for Konowa. But, if I look at some of the things he said and fitz's little mentions of leaf that sound like he's praising him, I'd go for Leaf.

If I look at other play, I'd go for Konowa because of his basically ignoring Trevor until he was prompted. But, I'd go for Leaf for several small things, one of which being the pushing fitz for trying to save konowa when that's not exactly clear that's what he was doing.

One thing I keep coming back to is would Trevor really give a town read to a buddy and then forget about it in his next couple posts. Like go from buddy!town to bussing his buddy a few posts later? Konowa also had a town read on Parama and I'm trying to figure out if he would have the same reads as his partner. I would expect most partners to change their reads a bit from each other.

Basically, you can expect this game to go quite close to deadline.

[Aeris]

I'm not getting the point of "I would have killed...". Not in this setup when the IC had to claim day one. Also, konowa's "I would have killed tierce night one thing" comes off pretty disingenuous in light of the fact that he was calling tierce scum all of day two on and off so to now say she was most competent reads off.

[Aeris]

I've been changing my mind every 5 minutes. I expect that will continue for 5 more hours.

I hate lylo.

[Aeris]

I think Konowa is still the second scum. His conversation with Leafsnail seems contrived and they're putting no pressure on each other, just asking basic questions.

Vote: Leafsnail

This post is bothering me. He was already voting leaf, so jut like he forgot his town read, he forgot he oted already. Also, gives a scum read to konowa too, it's like he knew they'd be in a cell together.

[Aeris]

Vote: Konowa

Promise me you'll get Leafsnail next.

Then a few posts later he pops in with this.

*sobbing*

[Aeris]

Konowa: what I'm getting at is that your comment wadn't really "see if Tierce will hammer". It's more "pressure Tierrce into hammering early". Would you agree?

I hate this post. Konowa had already said his objective, and leaf turned it around and made it a factual statement, and said "would you agree?". I know that he gave his reasoning for why he makes leading questions, but the way ths is framed just rubs me the wrong way.

(yes, Im in the midst of reading this game AGAIN. This decision won't be made until deadline )

I hate lylo.

[Aeris]

If my townreads would have listened to me about my townreads, you guys might not have gotten distracted with each other

[Aeris]

Trevor's votes on leaf are never for a really long time and are never when leaf is in danger.

[Aeris]

But konowa's posts starting at 723 don't make sense.

:crying:

[Aeris]

Literally do not make sense. Don't like push on tierce. Tierce stop stalling. Think it's lead/ fitz. Why no I don't want to join you on the fitz wagon parama, who is fitz scum with?

[Aeris]

Also, trying to qualify anyone's interactions with Trevor is awful.

This is particularly bad. He's discrediting it before it happens after he had called a leaf/fitz team.

[Aeris]

I keep wanting to vote leaf.

I'm bothered that he voted who voted for Trevor immediately after both days. But, he doesn't seem sloppy. And this would be sloppy scum play.

[Aeris]

2:45

Vote: Tierce

You know based on my play I have more self respect.

Gods this reads so real...I hate you.

[Aeris]

You're twisting in the beginning of 779. You didn't try to see why I found the push on you suspect.

I'm glad you think I have no self respect. You are scum.

So does this dammit.

[Aeris]

Even though fitz just quickhammered to save Konowa?

I don't like this. It makes an assumption, and it wasn't definite it would have changed to konowa, but I did think the original was to save konowa, so meh.

[Aeris]

OKAY
Me/CFJ/Aeris are now working as a team and Aeris should not vote until all three of us have agreed on the scum

And you both are split just like my head.

You both will have to just forgive me when I make the wrong decision.

[Aeris]

I'm going to go cry of ten minutes...be back Ina. Bit.

[Aeris]

fuck fuck fuck

[Aeris]

leaf if you're scum you probably deserve this

[Aeris]

vote

konowa

[Aeris]

gods i think it's probably leaf though

[Aeris]

Yeah, that's what I thought

I'm so sorry town.

[Aeris]

I swear I need to go with my initial damn reads. I had an original scum read on leaf I talked myself out of, and Konowa's dropping out of Trevor read odd.

[Aeris]

I suck

[Aeris]

Thanks Leafsnail - I feel pretty good about most of my town reads being correct. Just hate that I got it wrong at the end. What's funny is this afternoon while showing a movie to my class, I was thinking about this game and came to the conclusion that most of your posts felt orchestrated and thought, I'm just going to vote him when I get home. And then, read the game again and didn't. So, kicking myself. I am pretty surprised noone suspected me as you said, like my entrance to the game was horribly bad and awkward, I'm really surprised no one ran with that.

Eh Vi, the participation thing. I probably didn't participate as much I should, or would, have but holidays followed by school starting back up is a hard time.

Falcon having to claim day one was pretty bad. I thought that he read pretty town day one regardless, especially his response to Tierce's case.

For the setup. I hate LyLo, but I still think it's an interesting setup and think it's worth running again. At least you know one person out of three is guaranteed scum and it gives you something to focus on. I'd have to think about it, but I think I like the first time you ran it, which was essentially white flag, a bit better than this one. Though that might just be because of us losing the IC.

But, we really should have lynched fitz day two. (And, I should have chose better in the end.)

[Aeris]

Dead and scum qt?

[Aeris]

The only thing special about making a choice at the last possible minute is that you run the risk of accidentally making no choice and losing. I'm just saying.

My eyes were fixed to the clock. I wasn't too worried about that

[Aeris]

Sigh... so I was right on Kon's townslip >.>

What town slip?

[Aeris]

Well, no the loss is my fault, but honestly the way you troll and refuse to participate sometimes sucks. One it got you run up day one, and though I mostly had to justify why you were town to scum, it still gave leaf a way to look like he was legitimately scumhunting, especially considering that I've seen enough town honestly think you were scum for playing this way. It just really wasn't helpful. Two, your pushes didn't convince a lot of people and left openings for scum to discredit you and for town to be uncertain.

So, in the end, you were awesome in that you were right, but dropping out at the end wasn't cool.

[Aeris]

Yeah, I mostly feel terrible because I feel like I was driving down the right road and decided to turn and drive off a cliff.

But I forgot to say this before when wallowing in my frustration at myself. Congrats to leaf and Trevor/fitz. I think that leaf played a strong game.

Also, thanks to Vi for running it. It was a fun game and I had fun playing with all of you.