Mini 1401 - Game over!

[SaintKerrigan]

Well, since I can't vote for nobody, I better come up with an asinine, pointless excuse to vote--

Oh, wait! I

can

vote for nobody.

Vote: Nobody Special

[SaintKerrigan]

I think Conman is likely town. New, yes, but town. His posts the last couple of pages are an improvement over his earlier content.

@fitz: Why is Conman "failing scum"?
@Slandaar: Why is Huntress probably scum?

I am usually pretty careful about rules, but if this slipup makes me townish I'm not going to beat myself up over it.

...um, maybe this is a silly question, but why would you want to beat yourself up for looking townish?

It's just ikariam plays a little different where it is all spam and second day it gets down to buisness

Then go play there and stop trying to change the way we play here. If we wanted to play that way, we'd go there.

Seriously, if you don't like it here, just replace out.

This post feels odd to me. I hadn't read Conman's posts as trying to change the way we play, but as him adjusting to something new.

Unvote: Nobody Special

Vote: HavingFitz

Hi, wassup?

[SaintKerrigan]

@StKerrigan. What did I mean by "failing scum?" Well...first off, I meant to say "flailing scum"...not "failing scum"...but they are basically the same. I meant the same thing I assume qwint and aceofspades meant when they refererred to Conman as "flailing scum." What do I mean by it? I think he's flailing scum. Look at his ISO. Are you interested in why qwint and aceofspades used that description or just me? If not...why? If yes...why haven't you queried them on it?

At the time I was making that post I was racing to get something done before my source of internet closed for the day. Thus, I didn't really have much of a chance to dig into anything, and thus I hadn't noticed qwint's and aceofspades' descriptions.

I have to disagree with you about your self-vote stance. The one time I self-voted (other than for joking purposes), I was town frustrated as hell because I felt that the majority of the town was on my back for something I didn't think was scummy. There are both scum and town reasons to self-vote (not that any of the reasons are actually good ones), so I would classify it as a null-tell.

Did I miss something, or is there no stated reason for that vote?

There was no stated reason. The real reason was because I felt that fitz didn't seem to have a lot posted at the time, so I wanted to poke him a bit and see what happened. He responded with a good post.

Unvote: havingfitz

Vote: theaceofspades

Something isn't settling right with me regarding ace. He keeps preaching that the ConMan vote makes him town because, essentially, "I'd never do that as scum". Smells fishy.

[SaintKerrigan]

V/LA for the rest of the week due to school/work obligations.

[SaintKerrigan]

I apologize to all for not posting

at all

very frequently. I meant to be back in the game by yesterday, but work left me too tired to finish my catchup reads. I will have content (meaning reads consisting of more than just one sentence) no later than tomorrow night.

One thing I do want to say, though (but keep in mind that I have not read anything past page 14 so this could change), is that I do not support a Conman lynch, policy or otherwise, at this time. My current impression of him is that he is a newer town player, but independent of that, I want to do more with Day 1 than pile on a newbie. I'm not averse to lynching him if it's either him or no lynch at the end of the day, but right now I want to find and explore other possibilities.

I'll try to get something going quickly, and once again I apologize for my lack of participation up to this point.

[SaintKerrigan]

And by tomorrow night I mean Wednesday night.

[SaintKerrigan]

I do not have reads on everyone yet, and once again I apologize. However, I've read enough to decide who I want lynched today.

Yesterday, I said I was against a Conman lynch, but I've changed my mind. My read on him is still closer to town newb than scum newb, but my desire to lynch him is not predicated by his alignment; rather, I think Conman's lynch, regardless of his flip, will benefit the town.

He is a major distraction to multiple players in this game, and some, I believe, will simply not be able to focus on much else until Conman is hung (Kthnxbye and havingfitz, to name a couple). There is plenty of information that we can garner from Conman's lynch. He has posted very little content despite being given multiple opportunities to do so, and when push comes to shove I'd rather not have to be prodding Conman into producing a sentence more than the bare minimum of a post.

I was willing to give him time before to see if he could bring more caliber to his posting, because I dislike the idea of policy lynching someone, but it's near the end of the day and that's plenty long enough. I believe that lynching him today is more beneficial to the town than letting him live under the pass of being a newb VI, even if I feel that he is probably town. With Conman six feet under, we can stop all this arguing about HE'S-SO-OBVIOUSLY-SCUM-IT-FUCKING-HURTS vs NO-HE'S-FUCKING-TOWN-GODDAMMIT-BACK-THE-FUCK-OFF and focus on some real (or at least more decent) scumhunting.

Unvote: Malakittens

(I believe this was who replaced aceofspades.)

I'm not ready to vote yet because I'd still like to finish and post my reads, so I don't want to risk a speedhammer before that happens; but when I'm ready, I fully intend to vote for Conman.

[SaintKerrigan]

If Conman does indeed flip scum, I'd be pretty convinced that SK just bussed the hell out of him.

You drinking the kool-aid, bro?

[SaintKerrigan]

Argh. I apologize, I know I'm not giving enough attention to this game, but real life keeps getting in the way. I doubt I'll have time to finish reads, but I know that I don't want Slandaar lynched over Conman. At least Slandaar contributes, and I've got a feeling that the whole Slandaar v Dex thing is a town-on-town fight.

Vote: TheConman17

[SaintKerrigan]

Huntress is someone I'll be looking into tomorrow, I feel she's been awfully opportunistic with her play and her votes. Qwints makes me feel weird because his early posts had me screaming obvscum, but his more recent posts have seemed more town; I don't know what to make of that. I was suspicious of the ace slot before malakittens replaced in, but I haven't looked at the slot enough in depth to definitively say whether or not the slot is scummy.

[SaintKerrigan]

Funny how the first time Huntress seriously mentions me also happens to be right after I mention having suspicion of her, and that she calls me really scummy. So, Huntress, why are you "guessing" that it's an ulterior motive versus not having read the game properly?

I do admit that Dun's vote made me raise an eyebrow.

[SaintKerrigan]

-Ghostly Bump-

Conman, don't post in this game, for any reason, after you've been declared dead. That's against site rules, and you can be banned for doing stuff like this.

___

Well, I was pretty sure that Conman would flip VI town, but I was wrong. I was getting a feeling that Huntress was scum, and I was also wrong. Havingfitz dying doesn't surprise me, since he pushed really hard for Conman's lynch. I agree with whoever said Huntress was likely a vigkill.

Dun's truncated posting style makes me feel suspicious, but I also seriously doubt that scum would just suddenly drop the L-1 on a partner when they had a chance to get someone else lynched. (Unless Slandaar also happens to be scum. Which isn't impossible, but my gut feeling is that the Slandaar-d3x fight was town-on-town, which would make Slandaar town.)

I already feel like I can read kthnx better now that he's not hyperfocused on Conman, and the way he went after d3x, but then backed down when d3x countered the arguments, just feels like he's town.

Merry Christmas, everyone.

[SaintKerrigan]

Vote: Nobody Special

His ISO is very thin. Not in quantity, but on quality.

He only voted for two people over the course of D1: fitz and Conman. The first fitz vote was RVS, and the second one was in response to SiN's midday case against fitz; the latter was explained merely by the words "I'm convinced", and the subsequent unvote wasn't even explained. Why did he unvote fitz after he claimed to be "convinced" by SiN, NS? I think he saw a chance to push someone other than Conman and took it.

Looking at his initial Conman vote, he essentially sheeped the policy-lynch crowd (if I am interpreting the phrase "kill it with fire" correctly). The one time he jumped off Conman was to vote fitz, but instead of getting back on Conman when he got off fitz, he stayed with an unvote. Why?

While not voting, he begins pressuring Slandaar, but...to put it bluntly, it's a lame attempt at pressuring. Asking someone "Are you scum?" Call it serious or not, that's still hardly doing anything at all. And NS didn't keep following it, even though he claimed the question had meaning to it. How serious was he about this, then?

And then Conman votes Slandaar, horrendously. And

now

NS decides to go back to voting him. Why not vote him after unvoting fitz?

Next, a poor shot at me. Speaking of which,

If Conman does indeed flip scum, I'd be pretty convinced that SK just bussed the hell out of him.

NS, now that Conman has flipped scum, are you going to back this up with some content?

But the kicker. After mildly pressuring Slandaar for a little bit, having not shown

any

reason to really be suspicious of Slandaar, he suddenly claims that he's ready to hammer him. Why? What exactly made Slandaar scummy enough to be willing to drop the hammer on him instead of staying on the Conman lynch?

...to sum all this up, I think NS is scummy. He looks opportunistic with his play and hasn't really pushed any cases of his own.

[SaintKerrigan]

I no longer think SK was bussing Conman. I am certain that SK is town at this point.

...care to explain why you've changed your mind? Or why you suddenly think I'm town?

[SaintKerrigan]

Or, for that matter, why you didn't respond to anything I posted about you? Especially since there were aspects of my case on you that I was hoping you'd address.

[SaintKerrigan]

@SiN: If you don't believe Slandaar is scum, does this mean you think dunhamganger-scum would choose to vote for his scumbuddy Conman rather than for town-Slandaar, who was at L-1?

Why do you think looking at Conman's ISO would be particularly helpful? Honestly, his play was so erratic and unreliable that I don't know if there's anything positive to be gained from analyzing it. (Personally, I'm more interested in seeing how people reacted to Conman, since those reads are more reliable, at least to me.)

Your reads from your last post:
kthnx, ns, slandaar = not scum
absta, qwintz, dunhamganger = scum

This is solely based on your ISO read of Conman, correct? If not, could you elaborate on those reads?

[SaintKerrigan]

Essentially V/LA until after New Years, may be able to post but no promises.

[SaintKerrigan]

I'll respond in full tonight, but for the nonce...

Either Slandaar or myself needs to die Today, because I don't see either of us letting go {and if it's me, he can follow Tomorrow}.

I don't like this. Why do we need to polarize everyone again, so early in the day

and

after what just happened on Day 1?

[SaintKerrigan]

Personally, I feel that both of you are town. Even if that's not the case, both of you need to stop trying to stove each others' heads in. We get it. You think Slandaar's scum, Slandaar thinks you're scum. This is

way

too early in the day to start calling for a "it's him or me" type of lynch. At the very least try to come up with someone,

anyone

else that is a suspect.

I mean, what would have happened if Conman had flipped town? How would've polarization looked then? My point is that polarization this early is bad (and honestly, polarization is almost always a bad thing anyway). Stop calling for it, and start looking around.

Gorgon, if I read what you've said correctly, you do not think NS is scum, correct?

[SaintKerrigan]

At the very least try to come up with someone, anyone else that is a suspect.

I'm not trying to be a dick even though I know it'll sound that way, but did you read my p639? I clearly have another suspect listed there. It even has a stand-alone case against the player irrespective of my thoughts on SlandaarScum {but it also throws nice points to reinforce them as Buddies... }.

I apologize, I did not see your case. It's actually irrelevant, though, since the point I was trying to communicate was that it's way too early to call for "it's him or me", it's just a waste of the day. Maybe later it'll still come down to Slandaar-d3x, but let's not rush that.

@ qwints: I don't know what you mean by "scum felt that conman was the obvscum". Could you clarify?

@ Slandaar: Why Gorgon?

[SaintKerrigan]

I definitely hear what you're saying with the 'it's too early' stuff, but this shit in MyLo/LyLo with both of us being Town {again, I

highly

doubt} loses the game. At least now, it's not as finite. It'll also give the remaining Town solid reads and stances to go off of if it goes down.

Again, how about we actually scumhunt around first before settling in on you-Slandaar. Who knows, maybe someone will claim scum.

[SaintKerrigan]

Prod received. I just read the last 2.5 pages and 75% of it was noise.

Really, now.

I'm going to have to carefully reread SiN because I think the interactions there with Conman need to be examined.

Ignoring d3x's thoughts on slandaar/dun completely then? Ugh! Why is everyone so damned scummy?!

Why is that scummy? I've felt tempted to do the same myself because a lot of it is just reiterated shouting.

[SaintKerrigan]

SK: Cuz it's a solid case worth talking about maybe? Maybe if more than qwints, slandaar, and myself added their imput on it, it may work itself out? Maybe cuz we have no pressure on anyone and that case is just as good a place to start as any? Maybe because ignoring posts is scummy (at least imo it is). Also, why pop on just to say random crap (p679) and not really do anything other than say what's being done is 'noise'?

To answer the last question, I have a case on NS that I'm still waiting for him to comment on, not to mention that I've been talking about other stuff as well. The whole Slandaar-d3x debacle looks and feels like a town-on-town brawl to me, as I've stated more than once. I really don't want a repeat of yesterday, where the sole reason I voted for Conman was because he was too great a distraction to allow to live.

NS: GOT ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THE THINGS I SAID ABOUT YOU?

Apologies for the all-caps, but I want to be sure to get your attention.

[SaintKerrigan]

For people arguing that Dun is scum:

Why would Dun lynch his partner when all he had to do was lurk and let the imminent deadline save his partner (or partners, if you want to drink the Slandaar-scum moonshine)? And to do it in such a visually-scummy way on top of all that? It just doesn't make sense to me.

[SaintKerrigan]

Wow, I missed this earlier ... it pays to reread thoroughly.

@Kthx, If you want to bring up my meta, how about bringing up my Scum meta? Have you ever known me to hardline defend a ScumBuddy like this? I pretty much always bus the hell out of them whether they are under fire or not. It sounds so much more convincing that way. If I'm not bussing them, I'm usually ignoring them. Why would I take such a hardline stance against someone who tied for the highest Wagon when I replace in and is the obv Lynch of the Day?

This is just as much WIFOM as Slandaar's defence. I really hate this sort of rhetoric as again, there's no discounting the possibility that the player simply purposely went against meta in order to be able to point out that they are going against meta.

So are you saying this makes d3x more scummy because of this, or just that what d3x did here was dumb? I can't tell.

@d3x: Actually, going back and checking, I realized the deadline was actually several days away at the time I'd voted, when I'd remembered it being something like ten hours to deadline at the time I'd voted. It negates the deadline lurking point I was trying to make, but I'll go ahead and answer your defense for the sake of posterity.

How would it have looked in your proposed scenario- absta flipped out regarding the Conman Wagon & requested replacement, his replacement would've then lurked to deadline, and Conman would've still been Lynched flipping Scum? TerribadScum, that's how. This cannot be preferable to losing a Scum Partner, can it? He'd have lined himself up for a D1 noose just as easily as Claiming Scum.

And throwing down a sudden hammer without any real content to speak of would have been better? Considering the attention he's been getting for doing just that, I think lurking through would have been a much better idea. At the very least, if he'd wanted to hammer, he would've thrown in some semi-decent reasoning so that the vote didn't look quite so blatant.

It should also be noted that I believe Slandaar is town, and thus I find it hard to believe that Dun would just hammer his partner when a townie was at L-1 and ripe for a hammer. All other points aside, this is my biggest reason for thinking Dun is town.

[SaintKerrigan]

This game needs more activity.

Maybe you could help? Just saying that you haven't been all that active yourself. :/

[SaintKerrigan]

Also,

Unvote: Nobody Special

because I forgot to do that before. Not sure yet where I want to move my vote.

I do have a

FoS for SiN

, because that was an awfully noncommittal post in #696.

[SaintKerrigan]

Still there is other reasons to think Absta is scum regardless of the replace out and those reasons are actually quite strong.

Such as...?

[SaintKerrigan]

1. He told Conman to replace out because of the self-vote.
2. Calls Conman scum in this post after replying to Kthx, but doesn't vote him.
3. This post destroys what looks like a reaction test from NS.
4. Intent to hammer here after only calling Conman scum back in an earlier post.
5. Keeps calling Conman scummy, but lack of vote is apparent.
6. States he will vote Conman for a Policy Lynch. Where did the scumread on Conman go? (Located here)

Um...a lot of this looks circumstantial and taken out of context.

1. So what? Yes, it's good for scum, but it's also better than a policy lynch (what if Conman's slot had been town, after all). Suggesting it doesn't make you scummy.
2. That's "leaning scum", not "scum". Big difference.
3. It was actually fitz that ruined the trap, not absta. Fitz is town, so even

if

you'd gotten your facts right here, it wouldn't have mattered a damn because it's not just scum that fuck over reaction tests.
4. (This is assuming I parse what you're saying here correctly, I'm not entirely sure I read this right.) So? He already said Conman was a leaning scumread, and there were plenty of other people who felt like lynching Conman at that point. What makes his intent to hammer scummy?
5. So what? Why is that scummy?
6. So what? At that point he feels Conman is a liability no matter what. Does he have to say it's a scumread to make it look "less" scummy?

[SaintKerrigan]

Being pretty anal about my statistics, I'm not sure I would be ready to say right now that he's more likely scum than town (a pretty bold assertion considering the factors at hand), but I would be willing to bet that the chances of him being scum are better than random, which is enough to warrant a vote at this stage.

Anyway, as I said in my vote post his kneejerk OMGUS vote was a red flag. I read it as such because Kthxbye devotes the post that Conman was responding to mainly to complaining about lurkers (something that I myself feel is a problem in this game btw) and then votes Conman for lurking and not paying attention, and Conman responds to this by saying that Kthxbye is 'rather quick to try and take votes of [himself] and try to blame other people', where other people seems to mean just him, Conman. If this was really referring to Kthxbye's behavior in general, I'd have thought that Conman would have said something about Kthxbye earlier, which he never did. And the blaming other people part seems pretty weird in a game that's all about finding some fault with the other players (although it could be a newbie thing, but I get a bad vibe from it). Adding fuel to the kneejerk-feel fire, Conman completely ignores NS's question about the reason behind his earlier vote - as Slandaar has already pointed out.

I only saw this after I posted my above comment. Seems like Conman is now at L-1 which I'm not comfortable with this early in the game with too little activity from too many players. Premature hammering is always something of a possibility in this scenario and I wouldn't like that one bit.

UNVOTE:

I have no idea how to read Conman any more, btw. His bizarre antics, topped off with a self-vote, have seen to that. My gut says town right now though.

I read this sequence of posts, and it seems that Gorgon rather abruptly shifts from holding Conman-scum to holding Conman-town, and the provided explanation of "he's confusing, but gut says town now" is rather unsettling to me. Do you have anything to say about this, Gorgon?

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, something that hasn't been brought up yet that could be important: Huntress flipped Mason, which is always a pro-town role (unlike a Neighbor, which can include members of any alignment). That means if the other Mason(s) were to claim, they would be confirmed town.

I think having all remaining Masons claiming at some point would be a good idea; I'm not sure whether doing it today is the right thing to do or not; it may be better to wait for tomorrow.

Before I get accused of rolefishing, I'm not asking the remaining Mason(s) to claim right now. I just want to discuss with everyone the matter of whether the Mason(s) should claim publicly, and if so on which day.

This is a game I played where I was confirmed town via my Masonhood, for reference as to why I think the Mason(s) claiming could potentially be a good thing for the town.

[SaintKerrigan]

I also notice that the defense of Conman by Meph/D3x slot looks bad, but also the defense of Conman by SiN.

Why were those defenses "bad"? Do you mean "bad" as in "that was scummy" or "bad" as in "that was pretty stupid, but not necessarily scummy"? I'm also kind of curious that you mention these defenses of Conman in your initial D2 post, but you had nothing to say about my own defense of Conman, or Gorgon's, etc. Any particular reason to pick just those two you mentioned and call them bad?

[SaintKerrigan]

but there are way more advantages to waiting than doing it today or even tomorrow.

Such as...?

[SaintKerrigan]

No. You've made the claim that there are "way more advantages" to waiting on the claims than to have them now, you should be able to back up those claims. Frankly, this looks like a stall tactic to me, and that's scummy.

Your remark about roflcopter was also quite scummy. He names you as one of his top suspects, and you

immediately

try to trivialize what he said about you.

Vote: Malakittens

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: ...back up that claim. [GRAMMAR NAZI EDIT]

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Kthnx: SiN's 696 is nowhere close to being as scummy as Mala's 735 (and the rofl-directed portion of it in particular).

SiN was rather noncomittal in 696, but that by itself doesn't make him scum; that's why I only gave him an FoS for it, not a full-fledged vote. Mala, on the other hand, was accused by rofl of waffling around on her Conman read (a perfectly valid point) and

responded to that by trivializing his argument as merely the product of OMGUS

. This is scummy. It is much, much more scummy than what SiN did in 696.

I mean, look at how she responded to the Mason-claim suggestion I put forth. You want noncomittal? There ya go.

Kthnx, what about SiN's 696 makes him more lynchworthy than Mala?

@ Mala: You haven't tried to debunk what I said about you in 738, even though the things I said triggered your wagon. That doesn't bode well for getting yourself out of the noose.

As for your reasons for the Mason(s) not claiming:

a) Force a possible cornered scum into claiming Mason and then having a real Mason counterclaim them.

Why in the name of god would a scum want to claim Mason? Since the Masons know their own, a scumclaim of Mason means instant death for the scum who made the claim (as any counterclaim will lock the lynch into a 1v1, and if the scum doesn't get lynched the first time, he's instantly lynched the following day).

b) The fact the mason claiming now will decrease the scum need to search for the mason or any other PR to be exact. If they don't claim the scum have a harder job to do rather than an easier one.

If the Mason(s) claim, then town has confirmed innocents, and now the scum have to choose whether or not they WIFOM a potential doc to kill off a confirmed townie (because confirmed townies mean they can't be mislynched, which is bad for the scumteam). Yes, it tells scum who a power role is; but if there's a doc in the game, good luck getting the confirmed Mason killed off before killing the doc. And confirmed townies are much more valuable than power roles because, again, they can't be mislynched, and because you know they'll always be telling their honest opinions.

c) You're potentially asking for a protective role to protect a claimed Mason where it can be used elsewhere.

And how is not protecting a confirmed town member a good idea, exactly? Au contraire, this actually makes a doc even more useful by confirming a good target to him.

[SaintKerrigan]

I don't want the Mason discussion to get kicked off to the side with all the Mala fervor, so I'm bringing it back up. So far, Gorgon, NS, kthnx, and I support it, Mala is against it. What do the rest of you have to say about it?

[SaintKerrigan]

Flaming FoS: SiN

(The Mala remark at the end in particular.)

Careful, man, you're validating kthnx's tunneling...

[SaintKerrigan]

Polarization isn't a bad thing at all. The opposite of polarization is apathy, and apathy destroys town. If Conman did flip town, then Dunham wouldn't have lasted long enough to need replacement.

Wrong. Polarization is not the opposite of apathy; activity is the opposite of apathy. Polarization just narrows the focus of discussion in a very harsh way and does not promote the pursuit of alternate cases (for instance, the recent Mala would not have happened at all if the Slandaar-d3x polarization had occurred as proposed by d3x). That's why I don't want it.

I also reduce my Flaming FoS to a regular

FoS

for 766.

P-edit: No, I don't. Why would you think so?

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: ...recent Mala wagon would not have happened...

[SaintKerrigan]

As for the Mason claiming. I think we should have he/she/them possibly claim in the future, but not right now.

Right now is too soon and I think it's too early. I mean it gives town an advantage to have at least one confirmed town running around, but there are way more advantages to waiting than doing it today or even tomorrow.

Forgive me if I think that looks a lot more like you're against Mason claiming than for it, particularly with the "way more advantages to waiting" line. When, exactly, do you purport to be a good time for the claim?

[SaintKerrigan]

Incidentally, I think SiN has a good point regarding not doing the claim until tomorrow.

[SaintKerrigan]

Quick note: we shouldn't just automatically assume that the other kill is a vig kill. It's still possible for it to be the work of a serial killer.

1. Frankly this question boils down to why any scum would fake-claim a role in any game. Main point is I have seen corned scum do some crazy things for extra time.

Um, no. This is different because we already have a flipped Mason. That confirms that there's at least one other Mason already in the game. So, if a scum player fakeclaims Mason, it's guaranteeing the death of that scum player, either that day or the one immediately following it. Whereas if a scum player claims, say, Cop--a role that hasn't been confirmed to be in this game, unlike the Mason--there's still a chance for that scum player to live.

You do realize if you read my prior posts before SiN that I made the exact same point as him, but it wasn't as subtle. So why are you saying he has a good point, but totally disregarding any points that I have said which basically is the same exact thing.

Um, again, no. That was not the impression I got from what you said at all. You basically said (and have continued to say) "it's prolly a good idea, but I just don't know when we'd do it". It looks really noncommital, from my point of view. (Yes, I am aware that you now have narrowed it down to "a day or so more", but that doesn't changed what you said about it then.)

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: ...doesn't change what you...

[SaintKerrigan]

Saint, I never said the Mason shouldn't claim. I never said that. I said it isn't the best time to do it now, but claim in a day or so. Which is basically what SiN said after me. I gave my reasons all of which is basically what SiN said, but not straightforward as he said it. I really hate when players give benefit to one for saying the same thing, but refuse to give the same to someone else.

Frankly, I'm surprised that this is what you've decided to focus on, while ignoring the integral reason for why I (and others) have voted you.

[SaintKerrigan]

To answer your question: I'm for holding until tomorrow, but I could change my mind based on being reminded that there is a second kill present in the game. Still haven't thought that part out enough.

[SaintKerrigan]

Oh hey, in case people haven't been paying attention (like me):

THE DEADLINE IS FOUR DAYS AWAY.

So we really need to get our beeswax together and get a lynch going.

My (very strongly) preferred lynch candidate is Malakittens. I am only willing to vote for one of d3x and Slandaar to prevent a no-lynch, and I'm not entirely sure that no lynch isn't preferable in that situation (I feel rather comfortable with my town reads on both of them). Qwints, maybe. I'd have to read up to see if I like that lynch.

tl;dr Let's lynch Mala.

[SaintKerrigan]

I was somewhat expecting this. Something about the way you first reacted to the Mason stuff made me think it could be possible that you were the other Mason. Unless and until there's a counterclaim...

Unvote: Malakittens

This does shake up my read of the game, though. Will need to think about this.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: The above was directed at Mala.

[SaintKerrigan]

Protip: I didn't vote you for it.

[SaintKerrigan]

Tired as hell from two long workdays. Don't know how I feel about the rofl wagon but I can't think straight so I'll look at stuff tomorrow.

[SaintKerrigan]

I was somewhat expecting this. Something about the way you first reacted to the Mason stuff made me think it could be possible that you were the other Mason. Unless and until there's a counterclaim...

Unvote: Malakittens

This does shake up my read of the game, though. Will need to think about this.

You expected it but you kept digging at the mason business anyways...?
Why?

"Somewhat expected" is not the same as "expected".

Part of me thought she could be a Mason, but most of me thought she was scum. So, yeah.

[SaintKerrigan]

Vote: Qwints

I was hoping to get more from him today since I came out of Day 1 with him as bipolar scum/town (half his posts felt scummy, half felt town (all figures approximate )), but he's done a lot of recent lurking. At this point it's more about I'm less willing to lynch the other potential candidates than him than actually finding him terrifically scummy, but what the hell.

L-1, I think.

[SaintKerrigan]

I don't see how what rofl did necessarily clears him, kthnx. Anyone can say anything.

[SaintKerrigan]

I've played in at least one 3-scum, 1-SK setup back when the player cap on minis was 12. It's not that unusual an idea to me.

I still think both Slandaar and d3x are town. Those are the only reads I feel comfortable with right now, but given the accuracy of my reads this game, who knows.

SiN, why am I scum?

[SaintKerrigan]

SiN, why am I scum?

Why do you only ask about yourself? I think the mention of me and Slandaar needs some explanation as well. Especially since SiN's rofl case seems to have disappeared today.

I was in a hurry and him suspecting me was the part that jumped out at me right then.

[SaintKerrigan]

I still think both Slandaar and d3x are town.

what makes you so sure one of these two isn't an sk?

The campaigns they've launched against each other just feel like town-on-town fights. I'm not really sure if I can explain how.

[SaintKerrigan]

Kthx is town.
I'm pretty sure Slandaar and d3x are town.
NS is likely town. (I still kinda feel weird about him, which is why he's not a stronger town read, but we'll see what the claims show.)
rofl is probably town.

PoE leaves just Gorgon and SiN as suspects for mafia/potential SK. Gorgon has felt scummy to me, but I can't figure out why, so I'm not sure what to make of that. SiN has mostly been a "meh" read with a couple of FoS-worthy moments on Day 2.

Kthnx is the only read that I'm positive is town.

P. Edit: It just doesn't feel like one of them's an SK. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything yet that makes me want to investigate that possibility. I'd put both Gorgon, SiN, and you ahead of those two as far as SK suspects go.

[SaintKerrigan]

EDIT: I'd put [remove word] Gorgon, SiN, and you...

[SaintKerrigan]

Gorgon already claimed vanilla.

P. Edit: I don't particularly care when I claim, honestly.

[SaintKerrigan]

VT

NS, go.

[SaintKerrigan]

Unless kthnx would rather claim now, but I kind of want NS to claim second to last since he's softclaimed power role.

[SaintKerrigan]

Well, it should be pretty obvious why, now.

Who'd you kill N1, kthnx, and why?

[SaintKerrigan]

This is totally wild setup speculation on my part, but 1xBP goon seems overpowered to counter an odd-night vig. What if there's also an even-night serial killer?

[SaintKerrigan]

Actually it's prolly more likely that there's a weak scumteam. Ignore me, I'm being crazy.

P. Edit: Not that crazy, kthnx. I thought she looked pretty scummy, too. (Ironic, my two strongest scumreads were on the masons. )

[SaintKerrigan]

Actually, why think NS is a cop, specifically? My thought was that he was some kind of role that could confirm townies without actually being a cop. I was speculating hider, myself.

[SaintKerrigan]

SK: So 1 more scum AND even night SK? If that were the case, why no kill N2? Possible, but on the 'our mod is fuckin crazy' scale...

I was just doing crazy-ass speculating anyway, but it's still possible both kills hit Mala last night, if an even-night SK were a possibility. It's prolly not the actual case, though.

[SaintKerrigan]

I think the most obvious thing to do is to have both NS and kthnx vigging tonight, and that we ought to figure out today their targets. (Unless, of course, we lynch scum today for the win.)

[SaintKerrigan]

i'm thinking something along the lines of lynch sin, if game is not over vig d3x / roleblock slandaar, if game is still not over (and a mafia kill went through) lynch gorgon... profit

Hmm actually this looks interesting. Need to think.

[SaintKerrigan]

So yeah roflcopter's plan is foolproof. Which means he's not scum.

I say we execute the plan, unless the doomed scum decides to hasten the inevitable by giving up and claiming.

[SaintKerrigan]

Everyone list their top 2 town reads of the claimed vt's please.

Slandaar & d3x

[SaintKerrigan]

I say we have NS roleblock tonight instead of vig. Lynch SiN today, roleblock Gorgon, kthnx kills either of Slandaar/d3x. If anyone else dies, Gorgon is inno, which leaves him, me, kthnx/NS, d3x/Slandaar, and rofl alive on D4. At that point, we use the next two days to lynch Slandaar/rofl until all the scums are dead.

(And with the way Gunsmith is supposed to be used, mafia always have guns, so NS not finding a gun on me confirms me as an innocent.)

[SaintKerrigan]

Actually kthnx could kill any of Slandaar/d3x/rofl, and then the survivors of that get lynched.

Seems foolproof to me.

[SaintKerrigan]

If the last scum gets roleblocked (Gorgon or otherwise), then he won't be able to kill or roleblock. Thus, if Gorgon is roleblocked and NS dies, it still proves Gorgon's innocence.

[SaintKerrigan]

...and wow my reads were off this game.

GG, everyone. I enjoyed playing with y'all.

Good modding, AP.

[SaintKerrigan]

...wait. Did Slandaar know before N1 that he was a traitor?

[SaintKerrigan]

And also the plan was not actually foolproof. If mafia hadn't been Slandaar and they'd no-killed, Gorgon'd be eating a free mislynch today.

[SaintKerrigan]

Ok, so my reads were still almost total baloney.

[SaintKerrigan]

Was it obv to anyone else that Kthx was the Vig trying to draw a FakeClaim during the MCs?

I kinda sorta figured it out sometime before he claimed.

[SaintKerrigan]

No, I thought he was the SK. xD

But I'm the SK.