Micro 148: 50/50 Mafia (OVER)

[thenewearth]

VOTE: Hamlet

Sure why not, two princes

[thenewearth]

Which head is talking now, per say?

[thenewearth]

You know what nevermind... I think I know who it is.

[thenewearth]

The mad one? Belisarius is that you?

[thenewearth]

Is there a thing as being too hamlet? Because if there is... you're being too hamlet

@KX: he IS speaking English...
Very old English, that is...

[thenewearth]

Well it's shakespear... So yeah I thought old english. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

We could always policy lynch him for us not understanding a word he says (kidding of course)

[thenewearth]

@MOD: Quick question... So after hammer, We all need to PM you another lynch target so we have 2 targets, right? So does this mean that It's also of popularity vote? And by luck... The person we wanted to lynch will live if not chosen?

Just confirming this rule so that I understand the game.

[thenewearth]

First, I assume that the anonymous target has to be different from the regular lynch target, correct? And second, are we allowed to talk about and discuss the anonymous vote, and so have everybody agree together who the second lynch option should be during regular voting hours?

Well maybe we can If it's of popular vote.

Or else it'd be like voting for a pirate king (Pirates of the Caribbean reference)
Where A pirate lord only votes for himself, Except when jack didn't vote for himself and made elizabeth the king. (More unrelated-to-the-game stuff)

Only that we're voting for the someone except ourselves.

What I'm trying to say is that when It comes down to 1 vote (e.g. I'm the last one to vote) I should very much know who to vote for if it's for the sake of my faction. Instead of randomly throwing my vote like that

[thenewearth]

EBWODP: But it's an anonymous vote... So yeah we would not know who voted for who.

But I still say we're allowed to (I think...)

[thenewearth]

So everytime vote... We should always have an FoS on a 2nd person.

So we don't cram on the end of the day who our 2nd lynchee should be

[thenewearth]

Well it's up to us anyways.

[thenewearth]

but 50/50 chance will be a super bitch during LyLo/MyLo.

Yeah so it'd be bad if we reach that point unless we're lucky...

But let's try not to get to that point, shall we?

[thenewearth]

Would it be helpful if everyone claims a secondary lynch target at the end of the day? Before the real lynch is pushed out? IDK, I've never been good at theory stuff.

Or we could have a vote with another FoS

e.g.

Vote: Hamlet (Not a real vote but I already have a vote on him so... meh)

FoS: D3d3nd3r for being the mod (Huehuehuehuehue )

So it'd be way easier than giving the reads on when we're about to hammer making us cram till the deadline.

Or having all the FoS's at almost the end of the day maybe better because it'd be easier for us to see which vote is which.

Either way it has it's advantage and disadvantage. What say you guys? The former or the latter?

[thenewearth]

that way we can make sure that the mafia cant outvote us with the anon vote

Wow what a softclaim...

FoS: Kid A

[thenewearth]

why wouldn't I claim to be town

that is a silly argument

It's an FoS. Don't make a fuss about it. You're not going to die from it.
And is that defense I sense? This should be good...

Well they do say that most town claims are from actual town but WIFOM is what WIFOM does.

Oh well.

[thenewearth]

FoSing aside (Are there actually still people using them O.o?), I'm very against vote2. Easy to 'accidentaly' screw up. See rules, unvoting is not obligated.

That's why I said we use the term FoS instead of a vote 2.

But a DIE[PLAYER]DIE is good enough. But I'm so not going to make it rainbow color. Too lazy

[thenewearth]

It seems my dear other head has forgotten about this game.

For the record, it won't be hard to tell us apart. I'm the slightly less vocabulary-inclined head.

Oh, hey everyone!

Yeah it's obvious who's talking.

Hi fu-- nevermind

[thenewearth]

@thenewearth, you have yet to answer my question. Also, implying that a player is town, especially in such a way as Kid A had, isn't of any value; it's how you'd say something regardless of alignment. Defending something is not immediately anti-town, and isn't actually anti-town at all, so why do you make it out to be? As for saying "this should be good" when there really is nothing else to say on it, makes it seem as if you expect more to come, and overall how you've worded it makes it so you frame them as scum no matter what. Then directly after state what they did is generally town. And even then, you're thinking of claiming Vanilla Townie, which they didn't do; They simply implied they were of Town alignment, regardless of role.

Which question?

Sure defending isn't immediately anti-town. But why be defensive when there's nothing against you?
Heck you're defending him in his stead from what I see.

[thenewearth]

??? 23 < 34, so why give a notice to only Kid A? Am I not important enough?

This?
Sure... Now you're as equally important as Kid A. Good job

The question is located in post #48 on page 2, reading the thread helps. Also, check out post #50 on this page.

And yeah, I am. Though tbf, it's more like I'm saying your attacking them is scummy since your attack is over nothing. And once again, you fail to answer the question. You instead immediately divert attention back to them, and now me as well. Answer:

Why did you press against them and not me over the same issue?

Why, when referring to your own alignment, do you say "my faction" if you're town?

Why do you think implying oneself is town, when it's in a natural context and not outright saying "ok guys, I'm Town" is scummy/questionable?

Why is their "defense" which isn't even a defense more grounds for the being scummy?

Why are you acting completely biased against them in a way which makes them seem scummy regardless of the facts?

Why have you ignored my question/are you not reading the thread?

1) Reactioooooons
2) Who knows? What do you think?
3) WIFOM. What If scum is like that?
4) Newb scum tend to defend at early game
5) More reactiooooooons
6) I asked which question, didn't I?

[thenewearth]

1) When was it when you soft claimed even? Kid A said "Make sure scum can't unvote us" which is an obvious soft claim.
2) So are you saying that saying "my faction" should not be said by town? That it's a scum tell? Please revise questions
3) It's WIFOM. Both town/scum can very much say "I am town" or naturally (or make it look natural) to say that they are town
4) He defended by "why wouldn't I claim town?". Sure... then "why wouldn't a scum claim town?" or "can only town claim town?"
5) Suuuuuuuuure
6) 'cause I didn't even know what the question was.

Why you keep saying "not an answer"? It was still an answer. Where answers are responses to questions. I answered, didn't I?
You could revise that "why are your answers wrong" but then again it's wrong on your perspective only.

[thenewearth]

I'm 16 going 17. (And I'm already a highschool graduate at this age)

Nope, I'm a filipino.

What are these questions for anyways?

[thenewearth]

(no offence) trying to decide if my initial impression of you as an idiot is accurate.

None taken.

also,

Vote: PemHel

, you've been lurking through this whole thing, care to add on?

I actually agree to this.

[thenewearth]

Yeah, right. You say it's just a FoS, as if your attack isn't important. But on the other hand, you are one of the few who wants to use FoS to show where your second vote lies. With that said, can you respond to my vote?
Also, I want to look up some of your past town games. Links?

Yes I know that it was for 2nd vote. But FoS > actual vote. Where I can actually vote for him. It isn't even enough to get him lynched. And it isn't actually important because:
1) I'm the only one who FoS'd him
2) Not even an actual vote
3) No threat that he would be lynched

Not a fan of using meta unless there's a significant thing (like past experiences with the actual player) but eh... Why not.

Spoiler: Here

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4816609
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25648
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=25862

Note: I'm quite inconsistent (just saying)

[thenewearth]

Oh btw...

Respond to your vote? Please elaborate

[thenewearth]

Apparently I still haven't one a game as town.

Though the pokemon mafia we ALMOST won.
If only they listened to me who to lynch.

(self meta-ing tiiiiiime)

Most of my town games I'm right who the scum were.
I'm just NOT that good on giving a case

KX: I'm not a fan of meta unless significant.

[thenewearth]

@Pim:

1) First time iirc.
2) So you suspected me for FoS'ing Kid. Who cares about that now?

[thenewearth]

if you are going to get pissed when people attack your FOS don't do an FOS

I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't want to claim to be town

-If I'm vanilla town I would just be telling the truth
-If I'm a power role I would be making sure the scum don't know I have a power role and just act as though I were vanilla town
-If I'm scum I would want to act like I'm a villager so that people don't vote for me

also newearth you keep tossing around WIFOM
"WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that their behavior would be subject to scrutiny."
I didn't post it with full knowledge that my behaviour would be subject to scrutiny because posting as if I were town is what I would do regardless of my role

and lastly you seem to think defending yourself is a scumtell - as town my wincon is that I win when all the threats are dead
If I let people cast suspicion over me and I don't defend it I can't expect someone else to argue my case for me - and if there's no counter to your suspicion then I'm likely to be lynched which would not help me achieve my wincon

I was pissed when people attacked my FoS? When?

Just because it's WIFOM doesn't mean that all of the choices are false.
Surely one of them is true.

So does that mean if scum defend themselves and say that their "I would go against my win condition" mean that their town?
Also... that was one FoS. WHICH DOESN'T EVEN COUNT AS A REAL VOTE. Town wouldn't even be bothered by this because it will pose no threat to them. But a paranoid scum would react to any kind of suspicion on them. No matter how little.

[thenewearth]

With that said, can you respond to my vote?

BTW... I can't react to something that I don't even know what I'm reacting to.

[thenewearth]

why didn't you use your first vote on me if I'm paranoid scum constantly getting over defensive

Well you know what... Sure. If that's what you want.

VOTE: Kid A

[thenewearth]

thoughts on me after the exchange?

Still reading. Though I'm kinda busy atm because of holy week (Nah not really because of holy week... Because of parents that force me into holy week)

So yeah... Fence-sitting at most

[thenewearth]

However, TNE, OMGUS much?

Counter OMGUS.
And he asked for it. Come on... He wanted to get voted instead of leaving it as an FoS.

Also can you say which head is talking? Like...





"Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

-Belisarius"

[thenewearth]

Fuck. Laugh not.

Lol too late... Laughed before I saw you post not to laugh.

[thenewearth]

We need more activityyyyyy

[thenewearth]

TNE- whether it's OMGUS or counter-OMGUS, it's still bad, and you should feel bad.
Furthermore, there will be no signing of posts. We both dislike the idea.

Can we post more relevant stuff now?

If you want to play as one person, play as one person. No "My other head said that about KidA, lets wait for him to explain it". Be prepared to back each other up, or clarify who's posting what.

Vote:Hamlet

I think Head A couldn't defend Head B's post on KidA because the reasoning was scummy even to A.

Actually I could sheep this for reasons that:

1) Gut feeling
2) I feel that this is fuzzy's play
3) This feel's like fuzzy is scum

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hamlet

[thenewearth]

Pim jump into the wagon.

I have a feeling

[thenewearth]

No no it's not because of the signing of posts.

I played with both of them. 1 I'm quite familiar and the other... I killed on N1 once so yeah...

I'm getting quite a few vibes

[thenewearth]

I have a feeling

...that tonight's gonna be a good night~

Come along now, you can do better than this. In fact, you'll

have to

.

Let's hear a real case.

any thoughts on what zach said?

Who cares about what Zach said.

Yep. His reasoning was ridiculous.

You do realize that a hydra is a combination of two people, right? Which means there are two brains working alongside each other. If you think we're going to be in agreement ALL the time, then you have another thing coming.

Yes I know. But if one or the other becomes obvious... then yeah.

Anyway, sorry for the inactivity, just got Fire Emblem: Awakening and BioShock Infinite, so yeah, playing them.

Oh god another fire emblem game? Don't tell me when a character dies, they permanently die. Or else I will hate fire emblem forever until I'm dead

[thenewearth]

^^ So, nothing useful and trying to look helpful. More votes, plz.

Oh and what's the case on KX? I think I missed that part.

[thenewearth]

I sheep the wagon, not the reason.

[thenewearth]

Furthermore, there will be no signing of posts. We both dislike the idea.

OOOORRR sign yourselves off by using aliases.

Like:

-Nuts
-Care bear
-theguywhonobodyunderstandsbecauseofalostlanguage
-something

Anything. Leave us guessing, but sign it off

[thenewearth]

Sooooooo, I guess I'm going to have to do a re-read, because I have no grasp on this game yet whatsoever.

Take your time.

But don't take too long please

[thenewearth]

Oh I get it...

The prod votes.
Weird... He's not prodding Temphdq...
Scumbuddies much?

[thenewearth]

Thenewearth - As previously stated, I think I'm going to have to say Village Idiot, so barely town.

Really... Am I to be happy about this or something?

[thenewearth]

I was pretty confident about voting TNE earlier but now not so much since his vote on Hamlet has pretty sound reasoning
Zachattack looked like he could have been rolefishing but then he did a solid vote on Hamlet too

Kid are you buddying again?

[thenewearth]

@whoever asked us to use signatures- I'll discuss an idea with my other head, and see if he likes the idea, but until then, there will be no signing of anything. Sorry.

Just as long as we can clarify who's who

[thenewearth]

INACTIVITYYYYYYYYYY

And *cough* prod dodging *cough*

[thenewearth]

A replacement for temphdq has been found. He/she will officially join the game tomorrow.

May we know who?

[thenewearth]

will wait until mothrax catches up.

[thenewearth]

The fact that he/she/it isnt signing heads is a big fat null in my book, the people who are pushing that as scummy get more suspicion from me. Especially TNE. Post 131 has what you need to see on how the hamwagon started and its a crock of balogna. Zach calls hamlet scummy because head 1 had to wait for head 2 to clarify something? Regardless of the fact that they are one player slot, they are still two people, and sometimes they have different schedules. Big whoop. The case is super unsound but not enough to be super scummy imo. However in the same post TNA is like oooooh sheep sheep sheep. Sheeping a good case: ok! hell, sheep me for all I care, after all, I tend to be right. but sheeping a crapcase... and sooooo enthusiastically. +12 scum points.

I already said I sheep the wagon, not the case.

Iso 9 and 12 (not linking, call me lazy) are bad. Theory discussion: Hey, lets let the scum know exactly who else we suspect so they can continue to Night Kill everyone else. Im all for discussing it, but inference is awesome in this game.

Well it was to get a consensus of who to put as a 2nd target. If we all randomly threw our 2nd vote at someone... Then town will lose 2nd vote to scum.

[thenewearth]

TNE-are you going to defend yourself better than that? Mothrax's case against you isn't exactly weak.

What... It's my response. Anything more then I'll just be going around in circles

[thenewearth]

gut feeling

[thenewearth]

What are your opinions on KX?

His ISO looked pretty townish to me.
Though I just skimmed it.

Will look into it later.

And guys... Why KX, btw?

[thenewearth]

So TNE thinks I'm right about Hamlet. But he doesn't like my reasoning. But he doesn't have a reason of his own.

Hmmm.

Gut feeling is also a reason >.>

TNE needs to answer my questions...

Will do... Right after real life stuff

[thenewearth]

I'll have limited access for an unknown number of days.

Will try to go on everyday if possible.

And I will answer the questions. Just too busy this time

[thenewearth]

@Zach, nice post, very helpful, you're contributing so much.

There's something about this that rubs me off wrongly.

VOTE: KX

[thenewearth]

Oh... and Reads

Town:
morthax
Hyperion

Null-town:
Pim

Null:
CE
Kid A

Null-scum:
Hamlet

Scum:
KX

[thenewearth]

Sarcasm or not...

That phrase is totally rubbing me off wrongly

[thenewearth]

Mostly because of that statement

[thenewearth]

Let's count it off shall we.

1) Prod voting
2) Calls inactive players as scum.
3) The read doesn't really help much. Just says that active players are town and inactive as scum

[thenewearth]

Also, using your anon vote to lynch me could horribly backfire, just saying.

Btw... This makes me think CE is actually town

[thenewearth]

that way we can make sure that the mafia cant outvote us with the anon vote

Wow what a softclaim...

FoS: Kid A

If we do that, we make sure the mafia aren't able to use their own agenda for the anonymous vote

??? 23 < 34, so why give a notice to only Kid A? Am I not important enough?

Also,

Vote: Alexcellent

Care to join the discussion, even if, as it stands, there isn't much?

And Happy Scumday D3f3nd3r!

also,

Vote: PemHel

, you've been lurking through this whole thing, care to add on?

@PimHel, I was already slightly irritated at the amount of discussion over what I believed to be an extremely simple topic with an obvious answer, I just didn't really express it until the second post. As for the fence-sitting with theNE, I'm honestly unsure at this point, hence the lack of a definite opinion.

@Hamlet, I was referring to the quick agreement of opinion rather then anything with voting, specifically in

Alright, Kid A, you're not looking so hot, man. What gives? Is there something you need to tell us?

At that point, I felt the accusations against Kid A were extremely weak, and was curious as to why you would sound persuaded.

Vote: Alexcellent

back to my original prod vote.

Prod voting

Wow, like, nothing is getting done. Anyway, time to contribute.

KX all your votes so far are prods, please say your top scumpick and why you think they are scum, even if you dont want to vote yet

Wtf was the point of saying this? And unless I missed it, I think the vote on me are srs votes. Maybe PimHel's isn't, but even so.

@PimHel/Zach, why the big deal over me keeping a prod vote? It's not like there's a wagon against you or something, so unless you can provide some other problem. Either way, since you insist, UNVOTE: .

So far, reads are as follows:

Town

Hyperion - I've got to be honest, at least from what I've seen, they seem to be the only smart person in this game. Most of their posts actually have meaning and are semi-helpful or hold a good point, so I'd say Town. Only thing I hold against them is voting me, more later.
PimHel - Mixed feelings, something seems off, but I can't say exactly what. Otherwise, they've made quite a few good points/observations, and so I'd say Town.
Thenewearth - As previously stated, I think I'm going to have to say Village Idiot, so barely town.
Kid A - They seem ok, however, they really haven't done much of relevance but defend themselves. They did that ok though, and I already mentioned #154, so I guess I'll go Neutral for now, I need to see more. However, if their contibution to things outside themselves remains horrible, Scum.
Hamlet - The interaction between heads is horrid, and I so no reason why if town they should keep who's posting a secret. In addition, what they've said separately is very minimal and pretty bad, so Leans Scum. Only redeeming thing I can see is the interesting RVS play, which led to something unique to start the game off with.
Zachattack - It seems like they've done very little, and his #87/89 about possible PR implication was strange to say the least, so Leans Scum
Temphdq - One Post. Nuff Said.
CityElectric - The lack of posting doesn't stand out too well, and their two most recent posts are extremely bad. This game really isn't that long so far, and it seems like it would be extremely easy to take a precursory glance at it and say a few words. A second post on them not being able to post is what really tips it. Leans Scum.

scum

All scums are inactive people

[thenewearth]

Zach: Are you done meta-ing me? >.>

[thenewearth]

Or Zach claim.

Rather wait for a zach claim first

[thenewearth]

but how is prodding somebody scummy?

It's not the prodding that's scummy.
It's sticking to your prod votes and calling the inactives as scum is scummy.

[thenewearth]

Done meta on TNE

What have you found?

[thenewearth]

Let's try to get Zach to claim

UNVOTE:
VOTE: zach

[thenewearth]

Lol I knew it was Hamlet.

Anyways... who dafuq voted for me?

[thenewearth]

Well actually I voted KX.

I thought we were going to go through with KX 'cause we already talked about that.

[thenewearth]

Forgive me for not quoting the offending matter, I'm not at my computer, but I see it. KX pushing TNE and then saying: I'm fine with policy lynching is teriscum. 2nd choice found.

@KX going back and forth is scummy. It's wishy washy and implies you have some knowledge of her alignment. Is TNE scum or is she a policy lynch? Because there is a big diff.

KX still not impressed. You third to last post (drunk, can't bother looking it up) screams scum. Anyways. Hammer phlox. Or Zach claim. Whatever.

[thenewearth]

And HOLY SHIT you claimed cop?

LOL I didn't see that when...

Ah damn

[thenewearth]

The hammer happened when I was gone.

So I thought nothing happened. And I was set on voting KX that time.

[thenewearth]

Yeah ofc you won't >.>

You weren't here when I voted.

[thenewearth]

So you vote me because I anon vote you?

And for apparently not seeing your claim?

[thenewearth]

"Faking"

Yeah

Like you knew what I had to do

[thenewearth]

It's part of the reason why I requested replacement.
But it didn't work out so well.

[thenewearth]

KX: Any confirmed people?

[thenewearth]

Why city even?

[thenewearth]

Oh. And who was the other you tried to investigate?

[thenewearth]

Why would I lie about my anon vote?

[thenewearth]

So why would

I

Lie about

My

vote?

[thenewearth]

That

Or

I'm not scum :/

[thenewearth]

I seriously feel bad things about KX tbh

Seeing as how he chose CE and morthax as his cop targets.

How convenient it is to choose the dead and the most town.

If I were real cop in KX's shoes, I'll investigate me and zach/hype.

'Cause I really wouldn't waste my copping on a lurker and a most likely town tbh.

[thenewearth]

Whoops... Sorry

Will read when haz time

[thenewearth]

@Mod: More recent votecount, please

[thenewearth]

I still don't buy KX's claim that much

[thenewearth]

I agree with your choices who aren't me. I'm a terrible choice.

Feel bad for the replacement, but I think it's very likely he's the scum. A lot of people are reluctant to go there. Why?

I wasn't going to vote you until you said this... VOTE: zach L-1 yes?

[thenewearth]

And now that Hamlet flipped scum, I like theNE a lot more than Hyperion/AA.

I think I missed why Hamlet flipping scum made me better?

[thenewearth]

So me getting attacked because of the read... Yet still believing in my read... Made me scummy?

[thenewearth]

Oh... I thought you meant that you're liking a TNE lynch more.

[thenewearth]

@Mod: V/LA for X number of days. Laptop issues. Though I might be able to go on again tomorrow. But just to be sure

[thenewearth]

And sorry for not posting... I'm a bit busy IRL

[thenewearth]

What's the vote count?

[thenewearth]

I dislike AA9's "caught up" statement though

[thenewearth]

If you want to hammer then who'd should we vote for the anon?

[thenewearth]

Apart from me

[thenewearth]

Sure sure. Like I'll be willing to vote myself >.>