NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[farside22]

/confirm

/confirm for 1st game outside newbie town. Is there a setup/role list and/or do we know the town/scum ratio?

21 players in the game it maybe 5 mafia and 16 town
Usually it is add one mafia for every 4 additional players.

[farside22]

Will be voting fairies
Desire to PL wake has faded.

[farside22]

Not_Mafia replaces I Love Fairies.

I lol'ed at the player name.

Looked at fairy briefly and I changed my view on the replacement request. Noted she had issues.

*looks to wake*

[farside22]

Oh, we can start posting right now? I thought we'd have to wait for mod to say "go," but okay, lol. Glad the thread opened right now since I'm about to go out for a couple hours.

VOTE: Soren

Because I knew a Soren once and he was an ass.

@

farside22

What's the deal with

Wake

? Is he THAT bad that he needs to be PLed?

Also hello to

Clusk

,

Shaddowez

and

boon

!

@

mod/toomai

Is it okay if I bold people's names when I mention
them in a post, or does that count as overuse of bold?

preview edit:

@

Shaddowez

I'm getting reverse deja vu!

It's ongoing game. The most I can say is he's pretty useless.

Vote: not mafia

[farside22]

Interesting. NM's paranoia here raises him a bit into the Townie list.

How is that paranoia?

I guess Hunterseeker's vote on NM isn't counting?

And, Farside, don't be too quick to judge a book by its cover. Take some time getting to know the person first, I always say.

That right there was the reasoning behind what I was doing, granted I was trying to keep it in the spirit of the RVS. I understand throwing a random vote on someone for that type of pre-game slip. However, I thought starting a bandwagon before we even finished page 2 was a bit excessive.

And why exactly are you telling farside to not be so quick to judge and get some time to know him and then you turn around and do the exact same thing farside did and throw the 3rd/4th vote on Not_Mafia? A little hypocritical, don't you think?

FoS: Wake88

To be fair I was the third vote but I learned a long time ago vote count placement is null.

Checking reactions.

Seriously?
I can't tell if your joking because of your previous post and calling it omgus.

[farside22]

Checking reactions.

Interesting. NM's paranoia here raises him a bit into the Townie list.

VOTE: wake

RVS over. Serious vote.

Nope. Ive seen town called scum for what NM did. The fact you called him town based on his reaction tells me you know he will flip town. Also you havent unvoted.

Hes caught. Lets go

This is a good point. I had to double take moment.

post 50 is possibly the worst intro I've ever seen. Setup speculation, suspicious FoS, throwing paranoia around. It's got just about everything I don't want to see.

VOTE: Wake88

This feels tacked on and unnecessary added comments to justify a vote.
Gut call.

[farside22]

Reinoe's vote is crappy, too. This is Day 1, folks. Day 1 is nothing

but

paranoia and speculation.

@farside as well...

I try to always explain my vote. It's almost as if you guys would have preferred naked vote, which is just not my style.

Setup speculation is a dumb timewaster that people do to look busy. And I find that paranoia increases as the game goes on not decreases. That's my personal experience, maybe some other folks are different.

I didn't say that I stated it felt tacked on and almost like you felt like you had to add something.

Incorrect. Every subsequent reaction is valuable. If you have not noticed already, at least two other players have questioned the responses in response to my opening post which started all this fun.

I think he hit most point in green in what he quoted from you.

How will you moving your vote somewhere useful affect your reaction test? And please respond to the rest of my post

VOTE: Wake88 for obvious reasons.



Scum, if you want a quicklynch, run up reinoe.

So you think wakes comments there after is scummy....why?

[farside22]

@not mafia:

I think he hit most point in green in what he quoted from you.

[farside22]

So you think wakes comments there after is scummy....why?

Because they perpetuate the nonsense that he posted in his initial post (50, I think).

&@ sal:

I'm reading wake as bad town currently.
I would love to here abut more about scum motivation.

[farside22]

Whos the other person?

I thought you was talking to Alina but I now see you posted at the same time, so sorry.

But still, manipulating a newbie in to voting for someone is still suspicious.

The other side is sal believes wake is scum and pushing the lynch.
Seriously manipulating by asking people to vote??

I can't even understand that logic

Bit too early to tell, but the early signs point that way I agree.

Vote: clusk

MY GOD, you guys posted while I was slavin away. Let's see if I can post on the phone...

VOTE: VOTE: Wake88

FoSing and voting all that people reads scum! scattering Town apart so we lose ourselves on misinformation rather than actually scum hunting. It is meant to keep people confused and to be a sort of town leader in case he "detects" a scumread among all his FoSes.

It is a lie.

I did not understand this post at all. What do you mean scattering town apart line?

And it looks like wake is scum

Not sure if your voting wake, if not why make this statement and not vote? If you are ignore the crazy woman's question.

[farside22]

V/LA till Monday, forth plans

[farside22]

I think we're a bit past RVS.

farside22

keeps saying things that I've thought/things I agree with. It's nice. I don't like clusks 128, either, mainly. I also am leaning towards wake just being psychotown.

I'm a bit paranoid when people follow me.
Can you explain what you don't like about that post?

*puts SNOT on ignore*

Sigh that's better maybe a stuff drink too.

[farside22]

I'm a bit paranoid when people follow me.
Can you explain what you don't like about that post?

*puts SNOT on ignore*

Sigh that's better maybe a stuff drink too.

It's actually kind of hard for me to put my suspicion into words, I sat here for like 5 minutes trying to figure out how to phrase it. It just feels kind of off in general. It might be the wording. It feels like he's setting up so that he can say "oops," if wake flips town.

Not really what I was thinking but interesting POV.

I was more looking at his post of suspicion on sal for asking people to vote for wake, but his next line he has wake as a scum read. This is something of a newb scum tell (well maybe to me) you set up someone suspicious for pushing a lynch that you can point to later. The fact that clusk finds wake the scummiest added to my suspicion of his comment.
Short response: pushing a wagon on a player you find scummy shouldn't bother you when you were following that players logic in the first place.

[farside22]

Vote Aegor

... non-sense....but

this probably means you are town

but absolute bullying behavior meant to enforce and engage in group think and "borg mindset." (FYI for those that engage in HoS, this vote is meant at as slap in his face)

VOTE: SKOT

Also you have already been in games with me but do not know what has and has not finished.

How is that relevant? I am calling for a

policy

lynch. That

by definition

means that your alignment is irrelevant to me.

As much as I feel about snot as you do let's not start policy lynching people.

[farside22]

Dude, what you are doing is NOT helping the town no matter how much you think it is. Let me repeat that...NOT...HELPING...THE TOWN!! Now both of you need to get the votes off each other and start lynching scum and not people you hate for other reasons. Because we are NOT going to win if you two keep this up. Understood?

I will disengage the argument. Folks just let me know how much time you prefer I wait before I intent to hammer. In my mind a day is reasonable. Let me know what is. I will not sit back indefinitely.

I would like if you currently had a scum read to vote for that person

[farside22]

I'm a bit paranoid when people follow me.
Can you explain what you don't like about that post?

*puts SNOT on ignore*

Sigh that's better maybe a stuff drink too.

It's actually kind of hard for me to put my suspicion into words, I sat here for like 5 minutes trying to figure out how to phrase it. It just feels kind of off in general. It might be the wording. It feels like he's setting up so that he can say "oops," if wake flips town.

Not really what I was thinking but interesting POV.

I was more looking at his post of suspicion on sal for asking people to vote for wake, but his next line he has wake as a scum read. This is something of a newb scum tell (well maybe to me) you set up someone suspicious for pushing a lynch that you can point to later. The fact that clusk finds wake the scummiest added to my suspicion of his comment.
Short response: pushing a wagon on a player you find scummy shouldn't bother you when you were following that players logic in the first place.

So you think people should vote for somebody just because someone told them to without coming to a conclusion themselves and thats ok? Righto. Also my scumreads are totally irrelevant to the point I'm making.

Weirdly enough even though I think SKOT is batshit crazy, he stills comes across as town to me, and I am not a fan of policy lynches, 100% of the time policy lynches are bad.

Sure if you believe people are mindless zombies or scum that latch onto and buddy a person.

Now tell me how a plastering saying vote wake is manipulating a person's vote.

[farside22]

Sorry post preview is not my speciality

Now tell me how a plastering saying vote wake is manipulating a person's vote.

This should say player not plastering.

[farside22]

How is a player ordering/pressuring somebody (twice) to vote for someone

not

manipulative?

Did he threaten the player? No. He made a statement.
Again people have a brain and can decide to vote or not vote.
Telling a player to vote once or twice is not manipulation. It's a request, so far you haven't explained how it manipulation.

[farside22]

My top townread is Alina at the moment. Despite his anger and my annoyance at him, I'm pretty sure Aegor is town too. Slightly lesser town reads of mine are farside and not_mafia.

My other scumreads not named Wake are HunterSeeker and boonskiies. Both of them have posted and been online but have not contributed at all or helped us scumhunt. Everyone else I see is pretty null at the moment.

*puts on IC hat*

It's better to tell people your scum reads then town reads. I usually make a list of reads just explaining scum reads. Town reads give scum more info on players others trust.

*takes off IC hat*

No more of that hat till end game.

[farside22]

How is a player ordering/pressuring somebody (twice) to vote for someone

not

manipulative?

Did he threaten the player? No. He made a statement.
Again people have a brain and can decide to vote or not vote.
Telling a player to vote once or twice is not manipulation. It's a request, so far you haven't explained how it manipulation.

Didn't seem like much of a request to me - more like an order. It's manipulation by definition of the word - stop splitting hairs.

Oh you want technical definition?

manipulate[ muh-nip-yuh-leyt ]
verb (used with object) [ma·nip·u·lat·ed, ma·nip·u·lat·ing.]
1. to manage or influence skillfully, especially in an unfair manner: to manipulate people's feelings.
2. to handle, manage, or use, especially with skill, in some process of treatment or performance: to manipulate a large tractor.
3. to adapt or change (accounts, figures, etc.) to suit one's purpose or advantage.

Please point to the one that fits your meaning and how it was skillful.

[farside22]

Was just answering tn's question, farside.

*smacks TN* bad hydra.

If you truly believe that he is manipulating the town, why aren't you voting for him? Show some backbone. Personally, I believe it was a request than a demand.

Humor me for a moment.

Vote for clusk.








Does that sound like I'm manipulating you?

[farside22]

For the sake of argument these are the post clusk is calling manipulating votes.

What are you doing in a big game like this little boy?

But i digress. Vote Wake and you will be on your way

You forgot a wake vote

I don't see a demand. The first read as tongue and cheek and the other was directed to Alina was to me a joke comment.

[farside22]

Question dodge and lack of explanation from clusk.

Vote stands.

@wake: I'm not indignant in the post you quoted I was bothered by aegor's vote and wanted to see if he could expand his thought more then the wash, rinse, repeat of others.

[farside22]

Question dodge and lack of explanation from clusk.

Vote stands.

@wake: I'm not indignant in the post you quoted I was bothered by aegor's vote and wanted to see if he could expand his thought more then the wash, rinse, repeat of others.

You mean your manipulation definition one? Silly nitpicking of semantics I'm afraid which didn't warrant/deserve a response.

What this post really says:
I have no reason why it is manipulation and I'm making shit up hoping no one else will notice.

Farsides counter argument: ordering a player does not = manipulation and no way spinning the word manipulation means ordering a player to do jack fucking shit.

[farside22]

Fun moments
This wants to call ordering player manipulation.

How is a player ordering/pressuring somebody (twice) to vote for someone

not

manipulative?

Did he threaten the player? No. He made a statement.
Again people have a brain and can decide to vote or not vote.
Telling a player to vote once or twice is not manipulation. It's a request, so far you haven't explained how it manipulation.

Didn't seem like much of a request to me - more like an order. It's manipulation by definition of the word - stop splitting hairs.

When faced with Webster dictionary of manipulation
Shirts the fact completely

Question dodge and lack of explanation from clusk.

Vote stands.

@wake: I'm not indignant in the post you quoted I was bothered by aegor's vote and wanted to see if he could expand his thought more then the wash, rinse, repeat of others.

You mean your manipulation definition one? Silly nitpicking of semantics I'm afraid which didn't warrant/deserve a response.

@not mafia: the more you ask about his vote on you the more silly it looks.
There really isn't like the one vote should be noted.
If he is reading the game and doesn't move the vote on a scum suspect fine, but keeping a vote on a player is not a scum tell.

[farside22]

It's not just that's he's keeping his vote there, it's that he's stating it is part of his reaction test, yet when asked how this garners useful reactions and what he's took from it, there's nothing.

Last post of his catch up is to post 88. So some of his vote from what I read is still in the catching up phase.
He stated he won't move the vote till he see's something scummy.
I'm giving him to his full catch up to make a point or get lynched.

[farside22]

He stated he won't move the vote till he see's something scummy.

Link?

Making a Reads List atm.

Ready to not scummy

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... a#p5990279

My mistake I did assume ready to was to mean someone else who was scummy.

[farside22]

It's not just that's he's keeping his vote there, it's that he's stating it is part of his reaction test, yet when asked how this garners useful reactions and what he's took from it, there's nothing.

Last post of his catch up is to post 88. So some of his vote from what I read is still in the catching up phase.
He stated he won't move the vote till he see's something scummy.
I'm giving him to his full catch up to make a point or get lynched.

I did not read it that way, he talked about reactions and stated he thinks the "test" is over once says it is. This is not accurate. Once you get a huge reaction it ripples outward and you cannot stop it. Minor reactions you can pull back, huge ones ripple. Wake cannot stop the reactions. That does suggest he will move his vote when he wants to vs when others say he should.

That's pretty bad thinking. All you will get is mob mentality and it's easy to blend into mob mentality.

[farside22]

The walls...the walls...

Wow, Wake's post was long. I would not say it had that much content, though, probably because of its length. Wake, please just read the entire thread and comment after you are done.

I like Salamence's post. I still want to lynch Wake unless he tells us imminently what he gathered from his "reaction tests." His entire wall was just information instead of analysis (analysis = READS, if his entire goal was to elicit reactions).




If lurkers do not start posting, I will be pushing hardcore for their lynches.

What do you like about sal post? I never noted you as a language tell type, but I could be wrong?

Farside, I'm begging you. Do not convince me of Wake VI.
We already have VI Soren and VI Sala and VI Newbies. Do not make scumwake a VI.

He slipped earlier. He dropped the pressure and suddenly called NM town. Then he claims reaction testing, and continues to do so, also jokingly discredit me and this wagon against him. He dies, followed by his buddy adrien.

The short and simple is his post 50 was awful. There was nothing subtle and it was hypocritical. Stupid comes from town. There is only 1 time I saw scum slip at the start of the game where he claimed scum at the start.
Seriously
The rest go, claiming fake roles, asking scummy questions like what is your favorite PR, lining up lynches (seriously start of the game shit) and everyone of those are god awful town.
The what town would say goes under that category. I think if a player is about to be lynched they should automatically give reads, do you know how many do not?
Frustrating.
Finally this is bugging me....are you an alt?

[farside22]

Alright then, Clusk/Adrien are my scum reads. I don't actually feel that Wake is scum, he just is a scummy guy in general. Don't get all semantic-y on me. Acting scummy and being scum are two entirely different things. Don't be ignorant.

Yeah, clusk basically just repeats everything in question form, states the other person's opinion, or gives an obvious piece of advice. It's his scum style. He's scum.
Adrien is just voting people with weak cases, generally scummy as well, and the vote on me. really? just to scare a person. Wants me to give reads on a thread I obviously haven't kept up on. Please. And the fact, they haven't really engaged with each other at all, besides once when Adrien gave Clusk a tip/answered Clusk's question. And when someone tried getting a case against Clusk to Adrien, he completely shrugged it off as if it were nothing without even humoring the idea.

I'll vote for either.

Vote for clusk.

Tell him I manipulated you.

[farside22]

Who me? No.

Plz tell me, though that Adrian is bad and Boonsikes is VI.

The post you quoted the fos and the voted is not a newb scum tell. I have a few examples of newb scum behavior I have caught before but I like to not share the things I look for for newb scum.

The short and simple is his post 50 was awful. There was nothing subtle and it was hypocritical. Stupid comes from town. There is only 1 time I saw scum slip at the start of the game where he claimed scum at the start.

Why can't he be scum who just didn't realise his post would get him wagoned?

Bawgahahahaz
Have you seen scum post something blatantly obviously horribly hypocritically bad?

Now mind you I point out bad play in a game and a player knew me enough he used it as scum but what wake knows about me is probably summed up as a bitch.

But to answer your question he voted for you and fos'ed those on your wagon. Either he's a hypocrite (not a scum tell but a personal peeve of mine) he did it on purpose for reaction or he is clueless that he was being a hypocrite. None of that is scum thought process.

[farside22]

Not sure if Boon is serious or not. And chances are both the wagons are town.

Soooo you have a vote on NM what makes him scum in your oppinion?

[farside22]

That just looks like "I'm sorry I looked scummy", Farside. She literally said there was no way to word it. Why is it an interesting POV? I can only imagine you took it as an advice not to look scummy. If you're Town, you have no reason to fear this. If you're scum, that makes it interesting.

She explained it just fine in the quote. You know I have ADD and skim read post because of it, did you miss how she explained what she saw?

[farside22]

That just looks like "I'm sorry I looked scummy", Farside. She literally said there was no way to word it. Why is it an interesting POV? I can only imagine you took it as an advice not to look scummy. If you're Town, you have no reason to fear this. If you're scum, that makes it interesting.

She explained it just fine in the quote. You know I have ADD and skim read post because of it, did you miss how she explained what she saw?

Don't quote me without context. Context is the most important thing in this game.

I may have missed it. You tend to do that when you're squeezing so much text and analysis on only one hour. Would you care to explain again and properly rather than just fighting off who doubts you? Interesting departure from your previous stance on being attacked. Is it because you were called out for it?

The post I'm referring to is this post and what you said at the end.
I didn't get your point at all since you directly quite Alina's response that I was responding to. Hence my did you read the post question.
I don't even know what you want me to explain.

[farside22]

Quote not quite. ^

[farside22]

HEY SKOT.
YOU WERENT AT L-1.
WHY THE CLAIM?

HEY WAKE.
THAT IS HOW YOU DO A REACTION TEST.

Hey farside.
Why are there so many noobs/VI's here?

When you marry a dee and you are a dee, your kids become dee dee's
Man I miss that show.

I blame the first person that ever did a reaction test and thought cool man let's do this like forever and be more stupid.

When your reasoning for doing something is that it's something you do, you really need to take a long hard look at what the hell you're doing.

that was not the fucking reason I did it. I chose to put pressure back on Sala for his non-sense. Love me or hate me, but this is how I chose to play it.

Sal did a reaction test. You know the thing wake claimed he was doing? Why is sal's scummy when he claimed reaction test before your claim?

How exactly is claiming Tracker going to get rid of Salamence? >_>

well my thought in my quick reaction was it would get him run up. It would where I come from, so if it does not here because of the mindset, then hey. I did not put a lot of thought into it, it was well he is going to pull that shit, well then I will turn it on him. Town chooses to ignore it, hey that is out of my control. I did what I did. It is what it is. Once I did it no taking it back.

What site do you come from?

[farside22]

I'm townreading Alina and Wake, slightly scumreading reading boonskiies and VI reading salamence.

~tn5421

Why boo read scum?

That just looks like "I'm sorry I looked scummy", Farside.

She literally said there was no way to word it. Why is it an interesting POV?I can only imagine you took it as an advice not to look scummy. If you're Town, you have no reason to fear this. If you're scum, that makes it interesting.

[/b]
She explained it just fine in the quote. You know I have ADD and skim read post because of it, did you miss how she explained what she saw?

Don't quote me without context. Context is the most important thing in this game.

I may have missed it. You tend to do that when you're squeezing so much text and analysis on only one hour. Would you care to explain again and properly rather than just fighting off who doubts you? Interesting departure from your previous stance on being attacked. Is it because you were called out for it?

The post I'm referring to is this post and what you said at the end.
I didn't get your point at all since you directly

quote

(sic) Alina's response that I was responding to. Hence my did you read the post question.
I don't even know what you want me to explain.

I'm just saying I thought it felt off to me when you said she had an interesting POV. I explained myself as to why that felt off. What didn't you understand from my post? I think it was an acceptable thought process.

I bolded what you stated.
You stated she had no POV.
I stated the quote had her POV.
Are you asking what made her POV interesting?
She said she thought clusk was setting up to say oops later on.
That was the part .

[farside22]

You're a knob Scarab, and if you think those weren't manipulative questions you're lying through your teeth.

What questions did he ask? Just link it.

Yes, the questions were leading you to give certain answers and those answers would have been scummy. However, if you weren't actually scummy, you should be able to find a way out of it completely unscathed either by giving answers other than the ones I was pushing you to give or by showing why my questions don't support the conclusion I was leading to. The fact that you refuse to do either...I don't know, how would you like for people to interpret that?

[farside22]

N_M is probably town btw. probably my last post of the day.

phone posting

All I can do is phone post. Eventually you get used to it.

[farside22]

Scum list:

Clusk
Bp
Scarab (leaning scum)

Suspicious:
Renioe
Hunterseaker

[farside22]

Scum list:

Clusk
Bp
Scarab (leaning scum)

Suspicious:
Renioe
Hunterseaker

phone posting again...

Hey farside. Anything I do that looks scummy is a reaction test to generate discussion.

I would never buy this for 2 simple reasons.
1) you stated you don't vote without reason
2) v/la will issue most won't expect a response
3) you are sarcastic?

[farside22]

So what you give you explanations for them whatsoever. Saying they scumread without saying why is weird.

That your top scumreads are the group's means setting up to wagon a lynch

.

Explain yourself.

Or it shows that those 3 are the ones that are coming across as most scummy - which they are.

Other people haven't explained their scumreads either so I don't see why its weird.

I'll explain mine later if it makes you happy, can't be bothered atm.

You are one of the few not saying much in the game since I called you out.
I'd love to see a reason.

So what you give you explanations for them whatsoever. Saying they scumread without saying why is weird.

That your top scumreads are the group's means setting up to wagon a lynch

.

Explain yourself.

Or it shows that those 3 are the ones that are coming across as most scummy - which they are.

Other people haven't explained their scumreads either so I don't see why its weird.

I'll explain mine later if it makes you happy, can't be bothered atm.

I'm happy with that.


In the meantime: HunterSeeker's post is too much of a shot in the own foot to be scum. My vote stays put.

What do you mean shot in the own foot scum?

[farside22]

Finally getting more than 10 minute to my self.

This is my why I see BP as scum.
As my usual my TL'DR will be below

About my vote. The minute I read Wake's post with all the FoS's it immediately rang as scummy. There's nothing more scummy than spreading doubt around. What he did was draw out some people out of RVS and use them for reactions, but when you put so many people on the black list it basically says that all those people are supposed to be possible scumread, but in opens fair game for him to lynch any one of those without raising much suspicion.

It's scum play 101.

What I meant with the spreading the votes around town was that by putting so many people on the spotlight he could generate some divisions among the town as to who they should persecute as scum. Creating different bandwagons, if you get my drift.

First is BP's reason for finding wake scum.
This is very exaggerated comment.
So you know how many FOS's wake placed.
3
3 people out of 20. (Not including wake) fos does not cause confusion. This post is simply a stretch.

Here is wakes. Post.

Also let's get a discussion going: is it moreso Town or Scum that tends to confirm later in time?

You get those fuckers, Toomai.

Let's put some on this little nut for his maybe-slip: VOTE: Not-Mafia.

Now, Scarab, why exactly are you voting NM? He may be a nut, and an innocent one at that, so why be such a hardass on him? Probably capitalizing on the gaffe, eh?

FoS: Scarab

.

Alina, my dear, Mr. Wake has been very busy bandaging festering wounds, cleaning debilitated old folk, and everything else that comes with the wonderful, back-breaking world of health care. And it's SO worth it. Hey, are you an alt? Oh, and I'd like to know if you're Scum, too, 'cause you're cheeky, and I'm trying to read it.

FoS

Farside

and

TheAdrienC

for dubious actions needing explanation. Get cracking.

I don't know if not_mafia has disregarded the votes on him because he wants to scum hunt even if he's being looked at or if he's pretending there wasn't heat on him.
.

Why would not mafia react to rvs votes that were no longer on him?
This is just empty noise.
Mind you he stated computer not working a bit later.

Next

That just looks like "I'm sorry I looked scummy", Farside. She literally said there was no way to word it. Why is it an interesting POV? I can only imagine you took it as an advice not to look scummy. If you're Town, you have no reason to fear this. If you're scum, that makes it interesting.

Shows he's not reading. Usually I see people snip out post I call it cheery picking a case. Here BP took my first line comment and Alina's first line comment and labeled me scum for fake reasons.

this long catch post
Is a contradiction against scarab and slapping adrien around for being weird??

here I start thinking he's trying to push buttons
This response makes no sense based on what I said to him. I get the impression he's purposely trying to be shitty at this point and it's not for town reason's

another shit response
Here he responses to scarab and says information overload is scummy. What?
Scarab was explain the contradiction and things you did not note in you crappy case. But he's scummy for that? Yah I don't think so.

Now this post explains better what he agreed with and disagreed with about scarab.
However scarab attacks his points against BP.

BP's response

I don't know if not_mafia has disregarded the votes on him because he wants to scum hunt even if he's being looked at or if he's pretending there wasn't heat on him.

I just don't know. Town or mafia, no read on him.

Same for AdrienC. Don't know if his jumpyness is because his scum or plain newb.

Eyes on Scarab.

Like Alina as town.

Scarab, you're missing many things, but here's one.

I don't need you to believe me. I don't like you anymore.

FoS Scarab

Wake's post will decide if I change my vote.

hand waves points against him

lots of words with a vote

And hypocrisy rears it's ugly head onBP

Also, my FoS's are on my possible scum list.

Wake

Clusk

Farside

This is by order of possible scumminess

Hey 3 fos are you scum for "putting so many people on the spotlight he could generate some divisions among the town as to who they should persecute as scum"


The thing that bothers me is I see questions towards clusk but BP doesn't attack him the way he attacks me or scarab. I don't even think he followed up with his original issue with clusk.
And finally he has finished his reads but holds on to the little he got and waits for others to catch up. When his scum read on wake is weak and hypocritical at this point.



The TL'DR:

Bp is scum for contradiction, cheery picking and hand waving any point ant player makes in response. He ignores them, which means the aggressive attacks from the start are an act that does not follow through.

[farside22]

Please ignore the second 214 quoted post.

[farside22]

So I'm scummy for hypocrisy but Wake isn't with his FoSes on people who voted the same guy as him for the same reasons.

Also, three FoSes in the middle of RVS and after everyone actually presented reads and votes and wagons are NOT the same. Don't be oblivious.

I'm being sarcastic. If you read my post from the start you would see I find you point ludicrisious.
I obviously don't think you point about the fos has merrit.

As for the second see my first response

1. Also, I haven't attacked you that much in comparison with Clusk and my 2
"lots of words with a vote" doesn't make sense to you? Does it not address what needs to be addressed from Scarabs attack?

1. First part and?
2. Most of what I remember is that scarab is calling those he finds scum as scum. It's a null tell. I've seen town and scum attack those that attack them.

[farside22]

I don't think Farside has a strong case against me. I will debate as soon as opportunity arises.

Grant seems to genuinely be just catching up as best he can, but it's been lazy so far. Joining latest wagon, but for a valid reason...

Why are you so quick to defend grant? Why is his reason valid when be's barely saying anything if value himself?

[farside22]

Is BP known for ignoring questions?

Would not surprise me considering I pointed out his avoidance of scarabs rebuttle.

[farside22]

Are you caught up Wake?

No, I'm not. And no, that's not good enough reason for you to bitch.

Did skim through some crap about ordering and manipulation, but that whole issue is largely a distraction.

Going through at my own pace, as

Till someone named clusk wants to explain how sal was manipulating or if you find it crap tell me how sal manipulated votes.....because he didn't

[farside22]

I can't remember specifically why I thought Clusk was scummy, though if you want I can go back and find it.

If you want to have my ear in this game, you would.

Till someone named clusk wants to explain how sal was manipulating or if you find it crap tell me how sal manipulated votes.....because he didn't

Don't advertisements do this, where they say things like "Come here, buy now!:, etc, because it leaves an impression? I remember reading somewhere that it was part of the psychology behind influencing people to come in and buy.

I thought that was commercial advertise handbook to those who are without friends and want to feel special?

[farside22]

@Wake
It was his insistence that Sal was scummy for encouraging people to vote with him, and how he later claimed Sal was manipulative for doing so. When pressure started being applied he backed off saying that he thought Sal was town anyways. Which is silly as if he thought Sal was town why undermine him by calling him manipulative.

QFT

I am caught up, but have no strong feelings about the most recent debates and BP v. farside etc.

Lurkers, please respond.

So you seem to have it in for snot for something you know he does and wake. Any other people you scum reading or leaning scum on there?

[farside22]

Everyone:


TOP SCUMREAD. GO.

Boosnkiies, for clear active lurking, self-voting, useless votes, and AtE.

Another question. If this is your top scum read why are you not voting for him?

[farside22]

let's see if I can use the spoiler tag properly.

Apparently not , so Toomai fixed it.

Here's Farside's take on me:

Spoiler: spoilered text

Finally getting more than 10 minute to my self.

This is my why I see BP as scum.
As my usual my TL'DR will be below

About my vote. The minute I read Wake's post with all the FoS's it immediately rang as scummy. There's nothing more scummy than spreading doubt around. What he did was draw out some people out of RVS and use them for reactions, but when you put so many people on the black list it basically says that all those people are supposed to be possible scumread, but in opens fair game for him to lynch any one of those without raising much suspicion.

It's scum play 101.

What I meant with the spreading the votes around town was that by putting so many people on the spotlight he could generate some divisions among the town as to who they should persecute as scum. Creating different bandwagons, if you get my drift.

First is BP's reason for finding wake scum.
This is very exaggerated comment.
So you know how many FOS's wake placed.
3
3 people out of 20. (Not including wake) fos does not cause confusion. This post is simply a stretch.

Here is wakes. Post.

Also let's get a discussion going: is it moreso Town or Scum that tends to confirm later in time?

You get those fuckers, Toomai.

Let's put some on this little nut for his maybe-slip: VOTE: Not-Mafia.

Now, Scarab, why exactly are you voting NM? He may be a nut, and an innocent one at that, so why be such a hardass on him? Probably capitalizing on the gaffe, eh?

FoS: Scarab

.

Alina, my dear, Mr. Wake has been very busy bandaging festering wounds, cleaning debilitated old folk, and everything else that comes with the wonderful, back-breaking world of health care. And it's SO worth it. Hey, are you an alt? Oh, and I'd like to know if you're Scum, too, 'cause you're cheeky, and I'm trying to read it.

FoS

Farside

and

TheAdrienC

for dubious actions needing explanation. Get cracking.

I don't know if not_mafia has disregarded the votes on him because he wants to scum hunt even if he's being looked at or if he's pretending there wasn't heat on him.
.

Why would not mafia react to rvs votes that were no longer on him?
This is just empty noise.
Mind you he stated computer not working a bit later.

Next

That just looks like "I'm sorry I looked scummy", Farside. She literally said there was no way to word it. Why is it an interesting POV? I can only imagine you took it as an advice not to look scummy. If you're Town, you have no reason to fear this. If you're scum, that makes it interesting.

Shows he's not reading. Usually I see people snip out post I call it cheery picking a case. Here BP took my first line comment and Alina's first line comment and labeled me scum for fake reasons.

this long catch post
Is a contradiction against scarab and slapping adrien around for being weird??

here I start thinking he's trying to push buttons
This response makes no sense based on what I said to him. I get the impression he's purposely trying to be shitty at this point and it's not for town reason's

another shit response
Here he responses to scarab and says information overload is scummy. What?
Scarab was explain the contradiction and things you did not note in you crappy case. But he's scummy for that? Yah I don't think so.

Now this post explains better what he agreed with and disagreed with about scarab.
However scarab attacks his points against BP.

BP's response

I don't know if not_mafia has disregarded the votes on him because he wants to scum hunt even if he's being looked at or if he's pretending there wasn't heat on him.

I just don't know. Town or mafia, no read on him.

Same for AdrienC. Don't know if his jumpyness is because his scum or plain newb.

Eyes on Scarab.

Like Alina as town.

Scarab, you're missing many things, but here's one.

I don't need you to believe me. I don't like you anymore.

FoS Scarab

Wake's post will decide if I change my vote.

hand waves points against him

lots of words with a vote

And hypocrisy rears it's ugly head onBP

Also, my FoS's are on my possible scum list.

Wake

Clusk

Farside

This is by order of possible scumminess

Hey 3 fos are you scum for "putting so many people on the spotlight he could generate some divisions among the town as to who they should persecute as scum"


The thing that bothers me is I see questions towards clusk but BP doesn't attack him the way he attacks me or scarab. I don't even think he followed up with his original issue with clusk.
And finally he has finished his reads but holds on to the little he got and waits for others to catch up. When his scum read on wake is weak and hypocritical at this point.



The TL'DR:

Bp is scum for contradiction, cheery picking and hand waving any point ant player makes in response. He ignores them, which means the aggressive attacks from the start are an act that does not follow through.

OK, so.

First of all, I did not cherry pick that thing you said. It rang phoney to me, and it felt as if you were trying to make amends with people who look the most Town (in my pov, those are Alina and Sal, fyi), and it felt like you took it as a piece of advice. I was not looking through the thread for something that might resemble scumsmoke. I read and it felt scumsmoke. Period.

Here's why it is cherry picking.
You ignored that Alina was following my thought process when I called clusk and voted for him. That was the second time she agreed with me, which was why I asked for her POV.
Second I explain my reason for finding clusk scum in the post you snipped out.

So why did you ignore that I found clusk scummy first and asked Alina to explain her reasons and ignored my reason for concern at her following me
here

My 198 was a request of enlightment made by ... <checks who> shaddowez on 157. So, yeah, it felt exagerated because I was overexplaining myself to try and say things clearer.

Again you missed that I asked first and you wonder why I'm saying cherry picking a case.

Then you mention the number of FoS's I placed whilst noting the fact I called Wake scum mainly for that - which is explained on 198 (again), and interpret it as me being incosistent. It isn't. Wake, 50 was his first post for srs voting, and he does it the way we all saw. The first, with a vote and 3 FoS's based basically solely on RVS. Not the same as being on page twenty-something and actually having scumreads on people. Also, is it OK to have a list of 3 scumreads but not OK to have 3 FoS's on people? Are those not the same? If they are, as they should, why don't you have a problem with my 408 ?

You point is ludicrisious. It's not confusioning the town and he FOS's those that voted not mafia at the time he post so it's not confusing
I didn't know I had to quote your scum reads as something that bothers me when I'm pointing to all the flaws if your logic.

Then you apparently have a problem with my 327... For my points against Scarab? Or with the fact that I thought Adrien was being weird and therefore unreadable to me (as explained later when my spamtime).

No it was 329

I'm actually gonna quote this again to check that's the post we're talking about...

hand waves points against him

lots of words with a vote

Did you not notice the italics on my 439, which you called "hand waves points against him"? I italicized my response directly in Scarab's quote on my post. Check again.

No. If your going to put stuff in a quote change color or use bold please.
I'll reread it later.

520: Lots of words with a vote? Shall I vote and not say why? What is this?

And finally you return to the fact I FoS'ed 3 people more than 15 pages after I attacked Wake for doing it. Different situations. Different reasons for FoS'ing.

Get your shit straight, Farside.

What I mean by lots of words you using a lot when your whole scum read on scarab is he's scummy for finding those players that find him scummy. Which is inaccurate and a null tell.

Again I said it sarcastically and once again you ignore certain points of my post once again.

[farside22]

NOW IM DONE WITH YOU. YOU CAN STILL FUCK OFF AND SHEEP ME THOUGH.

VOTE: Wake

Wtf? Please explain why you provoked a newb to claim?

[farside22]

/confirm

UNVOTE:
I should be able to post tonight (at work right now)

God I'm sorry the emotional tantrums in this game and none of it was me.
Skim aegor vs snot that was the worst.

I think adrien and Salamence are both a bit out of line, but at least Adrien is giving coherent thought. Salamence, you're not helping anyone by holding personal vendettas. Adrien is right in the fact that you've been calling whatever he says "fake" and then not explaining yourself. So maybe try to explain yourself better instead of screaming aimlessly and OMGUSing

I agree. Damn sal for replacing out, I really don't get the Temper tantrum that just happened.

VOTE: Wake

If you dont know who my comment was about, you dont deserve life

This is a bad vote.


The pissing match between Sala and Adrien is boring. I do agree with Sala, though: Adrien's posting feels incredibly fake, down to his manufactured vote on Sala. Either he has a totally inauthentic delivery, or he is scum. I am surprised that more posters do not feel the same way.


VOTE: HunterSeeker

Hey I asked you some questions. No need to ignore me I will pester you till you respond.

FTR I'm at work right now so srs reading and posting will probably be waiting a bit until tonight, but if somebody wants to give an objective summary of the game that's cool too.

Wake did a VI thing, several people called him out.
Snot did his thing that started a my way or the highway dick fight
Clusk called out for claiming a town reading is many paring people's votes by ordering them to vote and is currently actively lurking
BP started a read, never finished said read, missing information and questions asked and I'm pretty sure it's on purpose at this point
Andrien and sal get into it, some people think andrien sounds fake, I disagree.
Hunter seaker post some one liners and offers nothing to the game of value.
And newbs and VI have come in hot demand for this game.

[farside22]

Good luck getting anything from him, farside, he's gone and I'm him. And I haven't read that far.

Yah I'm phone posting and I noticed that if I keep using the quote line and go to the next page everything I marked disappears, so I'm responding to what I read on each page and then post, then move to the next page.
It helps keep my post smaller on the bright side.

In regards to actual game, I'm waiting for responses from Wake and Clusk mainly and then HunterLurker. Also, Scarabs actual attempts at scumreading.

I don't think Farside and me will ever get along and understand each other. Farside, if you feel I'm still scum like and want me torrespond to anything, lemme know. You have gone to my town list tho. Temporarily.

I probably will change my vote next time Wake posts, if he pulls another one like that.

Time will tell.

Pffttt

I'll give you 24 hours to finish your read.
Give your views from players in the game as a whole or I will vote you.

[farside22]

What read did I start, what questions am I yet to respond to? I feel we're going back and forth...

Wake said he asked you a question. As for response I mean you seem to ignore players responses. Like everything I said was put through an ignore filter in your brain. Considering wake said he asked you something I thought it wasn't just me.

[farside22]

Clusk, oh clusk I have my eye on you and now others can see you too if you want to see
Avoiding this game will be noted.

[farside22]

bp: have you read the game in full? Because you literally sat there with your suspicion based on behavoir that looks made up on me and wake.

Jul

(quote tags fixed by Toomai)

OK, I am scared to go down the rabbit-hole with farside22 but I guess I have to. I have played two recent games with farside22 and both games I knew she was town from like the first 4 or 5 posts. I am not getting a strong town read on her here and that is making me nervous. If it is still relevant (might not be) I would like her to at least address a couple things: in post 144 where you call wake a bad-town read as opposed to scum. What differentiates him as bad-town vs. scum? Also, how do you feel your pushing on Clusk about the definition of manipulate led into your read of him? I admit I feel like a hypocrite because I scum read him based on his pushing of Salemance's manipulation but I felt like your hounding him on "definitions" just came off as a little too much of nothing. If you can elaborate on what you gained from it I would appreciate it. From the town-side of my farside read I have liked her vote on clusk, her paranoia over Alina buddying her, and her stance on not-policy-lynching SKOT.

I called wake bad town based on his post of saying I'm reaction hunting and keeps posting. Usually if scum does something to the effect of hypocrisy they will lurks about or laugh it off, he kept encouraging the votes and discussion which when you get mob mentality is really stupid to do.

Clusk argument. He kept fluffing off my argument as though it was meaniless. His reasoning was not valid and when he claimed that what sal was doing was the very definition of manipulation I quoted from wester dictionary the definition and ask which fit the correct definition. (It's my way of invalidation his attempt to again fluff his statement using facts). Currently since then he had lurked and has scum reads that are the majority with no reason.

I gained a scum read that I will push till he respond or gets lynched.

Alina: my read on bp is that he's not interacting with those he's calling scum. They respond to the case and he doesn't always respond back and then holds onto his scum reads for weak reasons.

[farside22]

mod: please fix quote tags above

Will do.

[farside22]

Aeronat what is with the flip flip read on clusk
One point you think he maybe town but the say he is scummy.

[farside22]

I'm going just declare juls town at this point.
Makes me want to reevaluate a few reads . Just a side note I'm null on aegor. I see bits of Star Wars game here reading him but the argument with snot and the lurker vote scum reads bug me.

I have the few unfortunate not reads, VI's basically and im not a one post = town post so a better reason for find BP town would be nice juls.

Also I noted something with Damon_Gant that bugged me.....back in a bit

[farside22]

So I've been trying to look at some guys - it takes me a while to get who's who in these large games. Why these people? Literally because I'm ISOing everyone in a random order. That's kind of where my thoughts are with this game. Scattered and confused.

Boon: The quirky townie with lots of moodswings. Am I wrong to read him like that?
HunterSeeker: Let's lynch all lurkers - says the lurker. Yet to make a post with any substance.
reinoe: scum candidate. We should take into account he's posting from his phone, but his vote on Wake rings lots of alarm bells for me. Claims that because people didn't like his awful vote on Wake that that means he should've made a naked vote. No, not at all, but if your reasons are questionable then your vote is questionable.
Soren: New and flying under the radar. Surprising lack of effort for a newbie I think. Did this newbie draw scum?
Farside's case on BP is logical, but is BP just another easy target in a game loaded with easy targets?

Vote: HunterSeeker

. I want to hear some proper thoughts from this guy.

I apologise for this truly awful post but I still do not feel comfortable in this game yet.

This post bugged me. Self aware, lurker hunting and the vote on hunter for saying let's lynch the lurker and not knowing he is referring to himself is pretty lubricious.

Part of me has this knee jerk reaction that says if your not comfortable in the game could be scum not comfortable and lurker clusk is not listed. Grrrrr my tunnel vision.

[farside22]

My scumreads keep voting for each other. Is this some sort of plot?

Scum don't bus?

In all seriousness I'm half tempted to switch to hs.

*ponders replacement, clusk sudden request after being called out and various lack of effort vs hs complete lack of anything*
Need to value which is scummier.

[farside22]

Just a point in my head if a player is not posting here you should see if it site wide.

That said this game will have a 24 hour reprieve from me as I'm behind elsewhere.

[farside22]

Last minute thoughts.

Hs needs to post.
Bp still bugs me.
Damon should also be looked into.

[farside22]

Alina - I already mentioned, be more confident in your play. Otherwise you were very good.

Thanks! If anyone else has any advice on how I can improve my play, that would be very much appreciated. :3

Tbh if you had not started the game stating how you are as a person when it came to reads I would have found you scummy.

Juls: pleasure playing with you. Note I was upset originally because I protected you n1 and thought you were scum when you hammered snot and mad that I may have protected scum.

Aegor: well played,

Wake: so many words I just won't express.

Mirhawk: I had a strong town read on you.

Go me : totally read renioe as off from the start and called out bp. I was surprised the sk killed me instead of scum.

Town that replaced out during critically moments are on my blacklist over and above those that made mistakes this game.

[farside22]

I lurked on the site for a couple months and read some games before actually signing up and playing. And trust me, I'm not that confident, lol. My last game my reads were all over the place. I'm hoping I can fix that this game instead of flip-flopping on people every other post. Also, I want to hear more from boon than just "hmm," and I don't feel like voting Soren anymore so

VOTE: Boonskiies

Give thoughts or something please?

This post.

Very much described what to expect from you.
People are paranoid playing mafia so agreeing and changing your views agreeing with others does not really read as lack of confidence but scum going along with the crowd and not making waves.

It's just an FYI in your future game how you can be perceived.

[farside22]

Farside, do you accept hydras in your good poet doubtfire theme game?

I will be accepting at least 2 hydra's

[farside22]

Farside, do you accept hydras in your good poet doubtfire theme game?

I will be accepting at least 2 hydra's

Me and Alina have been discussing hydra-ing. We agreed we would do this one. I'm a huge RW fan.

Alina is sure popular here.

[farside22]

Will you see us in your game then?

It's Alina choice.
She is with adrein as a hyra for the game....is this a 3 head hydra?