Open 573: C9++

[Death Stare]

VOTE: 50 shades of purple
Bastard game confirmed.

[Death Stare]

*stares at davesaz*

[Death Stare]

Maybe. I can't kill scum with a death stare sadly so if he doesn't die he's scum!

[Death Stare]

That's harsh, not-mollie.

[Death Stare]

Also you will never be able to PL someone like that nero.
You gotta fake a scumread on them and convince everyone that you are lynching scum instead of policy lynching.

[Death Stare]

I've pulled it off twice.

[Death Stare]

Before.

[Death Stare]

Page top

[Death Stare]

death stare I am going to pretend that you are deathnote and actually like you

Does that mean you never actually liked me?
:<

[Death Stare]

Towny vibe from Death Stare. Maybe just hyper active scum???

Well which one is it UberNinja?

[Death Stare]

CyberNinja*

[Death Stare]

Cool.
Are you, though?

[Death Stare]

Awesome. Because I'm gonna pull a mollie's signature skill of "I'm town you're town let's work together until we get paranoid of each other like hell and start yelling at each other" technique.

[Death Stare]

Room for a 3some?

[Death Stare]

I forgot to tell you grayfox but you get a buy one get one free deal.

[Death Stare]

You would've gotten a gold star if that "scum" said "town" inatead.
Such a shame though. We could work together to recreate the former glory that's called "the dark age of the law mafia".

[Death Stare]

So that makes sthar a serial killer!

[Death Stare]

Fair enough

[Death Stare]

Look it up. It's even nominated for scummy even.

[Death Stare]

The entire game in general was glorious.
You can ask antihero for more information.

[Death Stare]

also page top

[Death Stare]

I would say something witty but I'm out of creativity for today.

[Death Stare]

It is against the spirit of the game. Besides, wouldn't it be more fun to figure that out by yourself? That's why we play mafia after all. To hunt scum.

[Death Stare]

( *:

[Death Stare]

guys stop

you're making me sad

[Death Stare]

Oh wow, we have three hours to get a lynch. Can we flashlynch someone?

[Death Stare]

Go look at #2 Monkeyman.

[Death Stare]

wgeurts (2): MonkeyMan, Nero Cain

Why is this wagon even a thing?

[Death Stare]

What anime is your avatar from? If it is good I may unvote you. Doubt it though because I wish you didn't talk so much.

Kantai collection. Also if you think this is me talking too much, guess again. I'm actually trying to be real tame this game bc the last game was disheartening.

I am 99% positive the deadline we see is the one for confirmation.

VOTE: wgeurts

1. We no lynch if we don't have majority.
2. Your vote is just you trying to look town.

Yes this is a serious vote.

Bad.

I am 99% positive the deadline we see is the one for confirmation.

VOTE: wgeurts

1. We no lynch if we don't have majority.
2. Your vote is just you trying to look town.

Yes this is a serious vote.

You too?
Why the bloodlust? The fact youre randomly changing targets is suspicious aswell.

Randomly? Are you serious right now? I just gave a reason so it isn't random. If I wasn't convinced you were scum, I am now.

Classic "ooh I found my REAL reason to keep the vote on you!" schmidt.
Bonus point for this happening after nacho calling him out for making a bad vote.

I'm saying first we should pressure them to see how they react and base our judgement off that.

but we WERE pressuring Death Stare so you're saying pressure someone besides Death Stare?

What did you think of his reaction to getting wagoned?

meh, Death Stare is still prob scum though but sure

vote:wgerts

Even though you do this in basically every game ever, you jumped too early on asking for my reaction to my wagon. You should've waited until more votes piled up.

Oh yeah, Death acted fishy but first we need pressure more and see defends him and pressure them, this could provide vital information. We just shouldn't Blitz-Lynch someone yet, first we need to squeeze juice out of them.

Lewd.
I don't remember acting all piscine though.

@mod I thought you were gonna do limericks for vote counts? That flavor is stupid. I want limericks.

wgeurts- i need you to devote all of your mafia-energy to getting a goddamn avatar please.

my nero vote is now serious.

i am slightly perturbed by the low number of rvs votes on me.

Why is that? How many votes did you expect on you and from which players?
Or are you just jealous that I stole your spotlight?

[Death Stare]

@DeathStare: Wgeurts' play is indeed a bit strange, especially because he said that he wasn't new to Online Mafia though, I think he simply didn't undertstand the setup.

Simply not understanding the setup is null.
I am actually townreading him.

Also our vote goes here unless Ankamius wants to move it to somewhere else.
VOTE: MonkeyMan[

[Death Stare]

Hey nero

my

reaction.

[Death Stare]

Trolling? I was serious since page 1 so Idk what you're talking about.

[Death Stare]

Dunno.
How much contents were there during my early posts?

[Death Stare]

1 post and that's counting your RVS...

Not mine.
The general game content.

[Death Stare]

deathnote2 oi! I did not realise you were a hydra with guy.

Then why aren't you townreading me yet?

[Death Stare]

"There was no content in this game so I'm justified in trolling and cluttering up the thread!"

Actually I'm justified in trolling and cluttering up the thread even though there are contents in the game. It's a GIF right.

[Death Stare]

Do you mean a certain post or the wagon itself?

"Post" as in "after."

[Death Stare]

withhold reasoning as town

My play in a nutshell.

[Death Stare]

Death Stare

:
You suspect MonkeyMan because his vote on wgeurt is "bad" because (reasons). Then, you argue that

after

Nacho called him out on having a bad vote, MonkeyMan shoehorned in another reason to vote wgeurt. This is evidenced by (something). These are the reasons for your MonkeyMan vote.
Is all that correct, and if so, could you please fill in the missing links?

I can't speak for my other head since he's the source of our push on Monkeyman, but I can give you a basic rundown on why I support the vote.

1. wgeurts voted for no lynch very early on in the game as well as made a very awkward-sounding post in #68. This is pretty standard stuff for newbies that don't really know how to provide content on this site yet, but still sounds awkward enough to be very easy to push. MonkeyMan immediately pounced on it.

2. wgeurts posted a response in a similar vein to before and MonkeyMan wasted no time in condemning it further.

3. None of MonkeyMan's posts after this show any particular willingness to deviate from this.

This is the main reason I support the vote. As a side effect, I'm getting townreads on Aneninen and MTD for the opposite reason.

-Ank (btw, I posted a few of the things in the first few pages. I'll start signing now)

[Death Stare]

I'm tired so I'll comment on other stuff tomorrow.

Death Stare:
You suspect MonkeyMan because his vote on wgeurt is "bad" because (reasons). Then, you argue that after Nacho called him out on having a bad vote, MonkeyMan shoehorned in another reason to vote wgeurt. This is evidenced by (something). These are the reasons for your MonkeyMan vote.
Is all that correct, and if so, could you please fill in the missing links?

tl;dr
(reasons) = didn't bother to state them again after Nacho stated them already.
(something) = multiple factors. The timing of the post (as in, I think as town in general would say something about nacho's comment on his reason for vote being wrong first), and the tone of the post (the way he posted that post suggests that he was looking for other reason to justify his vote while silently ditching his first reason that nacho called bad).

[Death Stare]

Also a question to wogg.

If I were to not "divert attention" and followed the flow, what would I be doing?

[Death Stare]

Another thing I've noticed. MTD voted Aneninen for fluff...

Spoiler: longish post

Simply not understanding the setup is null.

I wrote the same thing. And C9++ is not an easily-comprehend-able-ish setup, after all.

But

he said he isn't new to mafia...
I agree however that this is no tell.

I am not sure about him currently, he sure hasn't acted mega-towny, though.

Wanting to NL is normal for people coming from other sites.
Btw
@wguerts: You say we shouldn't lynch someone yet, and attack people for voting because you want to put pressure on people first. Just fyi, the most prominent way of pressuring people happens to be votes. And no, lynches don't happen because of 2 or 3 votes.

in general: It is quite obvious noone currently wants to quick-lynch anyone, so quit whining about it pls.

Aneninen's looks somewhat scummy to me. His posts are nearly all fluff, the only things he has really said about other people is

Wgeurts' play is indeed a bit strange, especially because he said that he wasn't new to Online Mafia though, I think he simply didn't undertstand the setup.

Basically saying that there is nothing interesting there and

MonkeyMan is changing his vote all the time.

Which is damn obvious.
In general I have the impression he is trying to make a good impression without risking anything. I don't like that.

VOTE: Aneninen

Death Stare is prob town, dunno about the other hydrae.
I don't really like GrayFox so far, but there's little to go on there.

Also I just realized that massive is

old

.

But then goes to post a bunch of

Spoiler: fluff

He meant my Mafiascum age.

exactly.

No idea why you assumed I knew his real age.
Or why you do.

@MTD: his real age is on his page.

uhm.... is it?

Well, there actually is the possibility to change votes, you know....

Just explain yourself itsn't that hard if you're town.

really, this isn't that hard.
Hint: there is a difference between reasons for voting someone in particular and reasons for placing a vote (regardless of the one you vote for).

This is nowhere near as important so my vote stays where it is, but keeping MTD in mind for later.

How are the latter two quotes from MTD fluff?

[Death Stare]

Also since when the name "giffy" got stuck to me?

[Death Stare]

Deathstare (either I'm unable to read them or their fluff/content ratio is very bad)

Don't worry about me. Last game me and my hydra partner made 581 posts in day 1 and the percentage of content increased overtime. You just need to wait for a large sample size.

[Death Stare]

I found it interesting that Monkey unvoted under pressure, but apparently not on a change of heart with regard to wgeurts.

My unvote was satarical at the fact that they said wrguets was just new. If you read the post it was pretty obvious. I hate people dismissing scummy things just because someone is new.

And I didn't see you revoting.

ffs out of all the accounts to slip with

[Death Stare]

I don't need to revote because I know the wagon is going to go nowhere. I am trying to find another person of whom i think is scum.

wgeurts wants to no lynch.
wgeurts doesn't like random bandwagons.
wgeurts wants to hold onto his vote.

I don't know that mafia is the game for wgeurts.

This is town too.

I am getting a good town block.

Heartless, Nero Cain, Massive and Me.

I think I just broke the game.

Scum:

wreurts, Death Stare

[Death Stare]

A lot of people already scum read you so I see no point to pursue that either. I also feel like you have more than 2 votes on you but the votecount says otherwise.

....

[Death Stare]

Hmmm... Monkey man is playing differently this game a quick search of his posts shows. Though DeathState seemingly not caring and changing his vote to MonkeyMan when seemingly under fire is odd. No ones going for a no lynch so I'll go with VOTE: DeathStare.

I literally have no idea what you're trying to say here.

My read on scum at the moment is:
DS and Monkey

Also voting monkey if my gut is right would make monkey seem alot less scummy in the case of DS' es death.

Ok, no really, what are you even talking about? I don't understand what your train of thought is.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

We lost it because I tried to explain everything in overly-detailed long walls. I dug up everything about the scums, and I explained, explained and explained.

I want to point this out in particular, mainly because I want to make sure this is clear before this slot starts getting put under fire for it: I rarely ever read walls. If I don't read a post, that's probably why.

I've been seeing quite a few walls up to this point and it's starting to get annoying.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Which post

[Death Stare]

I'll be here tomorrow. Busy today.

[Death Stare]

I am leaving monkey to nacho

Just curious but is nacho even playing this game right now?

*reads more*
Aneninen can be town.

The true sign of kindness and caring.

I like their case on Monkey I think, although it seems to mostly be based on his interaction with wguerts

No it isn't. The main point of the case (which is from a head who started the thing, me) is this:

Death Stare:
You suspect MonkeyMan because his vote on wgeurt is "bad" because (reasons). Then, you argue that after Nacho called him out on having a bad vote, MonkeyMan shoehorned in another reason to vote wgeurt. This is evidenced by (something). These are the reasons for your MonkeyMan vote.
Is all that correct, and if so, could you please fill in the missing links?

tl;dr
(reasons) = didn't bother to state them again after Nacho stated them already.
(something) = multiple factors. The timing of the post (as in, I think as town in general would say something about nacho's comment on his reason for vote being wrong first), and the tone of the post (the way he posted that post suggests that he was looking for other reason to justify his vote while silently ditching his first reason that nacho called bad).

The other post from Ankamius is why he supported my vote on Monkey, which is a secondary reason.

Grayfoxx your trying so hard to look town it's almost scummy.

Which post(s) specifically?

Will read and actually participate when I'm back.

5 bucks on him never doing this. Anyone else?

Monkey posts this and unvotes, he is obviously still in the mindset that I'm scum so why would he unvote?
Is he questioning his own reasoning or is he trying to loose attention?

tbf the post you quoted was an obvious sarcasm. What I did have problem with is not revoting.

I'm gonna take my time to organize my thoughts.

[Death Stare]

Ew I hate quote strips but I did it anyway bc I couldn't find a better way to post.

[Death Stare]

I'm going to bug GIF to catch me up because I'm completely lost as to what's going on right now.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

I hate you.

[Death Stare]

yes i am playing the game and i am also disappointed you aren't dead in the gutters

That's unfortunate isn't it

[Death Stare]

sheep me or go home pls

But how can I sheep you when you're not being awsum in this game

[Death Stare]

Not shit.
You seem to recognize this, why didn't you attack MTD for it?

idgi

[Death Stare]

You seem to recognize this, why didn't you attack MTD for it?

I had other interests.

[Death Stare]

spoiler: most of wgeurts' posts doesn't make sense.
/shameless discredit

P-Edit: I disagree.

[Death Stare]

Refute it.

I... disagree?
Or do you want me to say "I was trying to figure out if NC is pushing me for actually scumreading me or just plain ol' "fuck this hydra"ing me because he should know how I townplay looks like when we even hydra'd together"

[Death Stare]

Deathstares vote is interesting, almost like a shot at diverting attention.

hey gif
you're so obviously scum that wgeurts caught you out on his first game at mafiascum.
how does that make you feel?

Then I ask you the same question that I asked him.

Also a question to wogg.

If I were to not "divert attention" and followed the flow, what would I be doing?

[Death Stare]

If I were to not "divert attention" and followed the flow, what would I be doing?

Making pushes that didn't suck, for one.

I disagree.

I'm tired so I'll comment on other stuff tomorrow.

Death Stare:
You suspect MonkeyMan because his vote on wgeurt is "bad" because (reasons). Then, you argue that after Nacho called him out on having a bad vote, MonkeyMan shoehorned in another reason to vote wgeurt. This is evidenced by (something). These are the reasons for your MonkeyMan vote.
Is all that correct, and if so, could you please fill in the missing links?

tl;dr
(reasons) = didn't bother to state them again after Nacho stated them already.
(something) = multiple factors. The timing of the post (as in, I think as town in general would say something about nacho's comment on his reason for vote being wrong first), and the tone of the post (the way he posted that post suggests that he was looking for other reason to justify his vote while silently ditching his first reason that nacho called bad).

[Death Stare]

How the hell is Monkey a new player
We played with him at HxH remember?

Also backing down is exactly what he did. He silently backed down from his initial reasoning and had to say that he found a better reason to vote wguerts.

[Death Stare]

And that HxH was LONG TIME AGO

[Death Stare]

u srs?

[Death Stare]

*checks HxH*

*sees 576*

...oh

[Death Stare]

brb I'm gonna reread this monkey's posts then.

[Death Stare]

You win
will sheep

VOTE: MTD

[Death Stare]

When you're done catching up talk to me about grey btw

[Death Stare]

MonkeyMan immediately pounced on it.

The first fallacy town players have to overcome is the "wrong = scum" fallacy. New player making a mistake and new player jumping on it is a pretty typical progression of events.

2. wgeurts posted a response in a similar vein to before and MonkeyMan wasted no time in condemning it further.

So?

3. None of MonkeyMan's posts after this show any particular willingness to deviate from this.

So?

I don't look at content to base votes on. I look at motivations. I didn't support the vote because he was wrong, but because he looked like he was taking advantage of the situation.

I didn't notice that he only had around 100 posts, though. That makes the above case basically null, but I still don't like some of the posts he's made since then.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

You are right. I shouldn't try to lynch the new scum. I should give them a break since they are new and everything. Why would anyone ever lynch someone because they think they are scummy?

UNVOTE:

this post is also town as balls

BTW, I'd really like an explanation on this because everything about this post pings.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

I didn't support the vote because he was wrong, but because he looked like he was taking advantage of the situation.

Was he from a position to take advantage of the situation as a new player who is not familiar with the site, who is not familiar with any of us as players, and has absolutely no reputation to add that extra "oomph" to his words? No. Does he seem like the type of player who believes he could easily ascend to that type of position? No.

I don't like to bring outside influences into situations. I take them as they are. If my observations from that alone are insufficient, then I will amend them as they come.

I didn't notice that he only had around 100 posts, though. That makes the above case basically null, but I still don't like some of the posts he's made since then.

Like what?

I don't need to revote because I know the wagon is going to go nowhere. I am trying to find another person of whom i think is scum.

A lot of people already scum read you [Death Stare] so I see no point to pursue that either. I also feel like you [Death Stare] have more than 2 votes on you but the votecount says otherwise.

These two are a big one.

For someone who was so gung-ho about trying to get someone lynched, it's kind of bizarre that after they get frustrated and drop that entire case, they would be very hesitant to go for their other scumread (btw, the scumread on us is one he's been stating for most of the game) that would be much more likely to get a promising wagon going. It's even weirder that the fact that a wagon already exists would be a reason to not join on.

The dissonance is a red flag.

[Death Stare]

i don't really have a townread there

And this rarely happens so I'm honored

i admittedly didn't read grey fox's posts very closely but the conviction and indignation alone seems town enough

You would never guess what my "non-townreads" looks like if I were to sheep your townreads.

[Death Stare]

I was already townreading all of them except Monkey.

[Death Stare]

You are right. I shouldn't try to lynch the new scum. I should give them a break since they are new and everything. Why would anyone ever lynch someone because they think they are scummy?

UNVOTE:

this post is also town as balls

BTW, I'd really like an explanation on this because everything about this post pings.

-Ank

This post is expressing a deep frustration that no one is listening to him and the unvote is the manifestation of his frustration. If he were scum, this would be him going balls out to lynch someone no one wants to lynch. I don't think that's what this is. Why does it ping for you?

1. He blatantly ignored practically everyone else who expressed that they found this behavior bizarre, but the moment I posted (his other expressed scumread), it caused him to unvote.
2. He didn't vote anyone else. Voting this slot immediately would've been very very town, but just pushing for another angle would've been pretty town too.
3. The satirical explanation makes no sense.

[Death Stare]

I don't like to bring outside influences into situations. I take them as they are. If my observations from that alone are insufficient, then I will amend them as they come.

Outside influences? I'm assessing a situation based on post count and content of posting: you can't attribute motivation to someone if you know nothing about them.

The first part of your point suggested that. I got the impression that he was the type to grab onto a point and run it through regardless of what else is going on, feigning confidence if he didn't have enough actual confidence in his reads.

Basically, a more extreme version of the playstyle I had around the first year I was playing.

[Death Stare]

Last two posts are mine.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

You know

After sheeping you, my "non-townreads" turned to this.

MTD, Stav, Massive

I had the exact same type of PoE list at some point in last open I played and I was 0/3.
Please assist. (Sans MTD bc you say he's scum)

[Death Stare]

(By same type of PoE list, I meant that the "non-townreads" were consisting of lurker/inactives/contentlessness)

[Death Stare]

The players you are eliminating from this list (sthar, gray, dave) are for weak reasons.

They are indeed for weak reasons.
My sthar read is bc of gut
In last game I was able to correctly townread dave within his first 2 posts. I'm not seeing it this game. But I do think he's more town than scum.
Gray is a weird case. I remember Ank saying that grey is scum for his early posts. Also he kept oscillating between TOTALFLUFF and OMGSRS which is weird 2 me but my gut says that's probably townstuff.

[Death Stare]

Maybe Mollie was bussing him earlier

Mollie never scumread me.

[Death Stare]

Well that vote was an RVS vote.
Also mollie didn't vote me nacho did.

[Death Stare]

Also for someone to be scumread by people, I'm surely having a lot of "pls sheep me" request.

[Death Stare]

And I'm sheeting that.
No yell of hatred for me?

[Death Stare]

Sheeping*

[Death Stare]

I think Mollie is very likely scum 'cause townMollie doesn't town read townNero thus means is very likely to be scumMollie.

I read you as town in xmen you dummy.

LIKE I AM PRETTY FUCKING SURE I READ YOU AS TOWN ON D1 AND FOLLOWED UP YOUR LEADS!!!1!

nero is off the town table. no way would he misrep like that it is right there in the fucking thread

Also I can see nero making that statement regardless of his alignment tbh

[Death Stare]

Your ketchup post in general.

[Death Stare]

There is no such thing as specific in ketchup post.
Just list your opinion on everything that has happened so far.

[Death Stare]

Not if you use other skin than subsilver

[Death Stare]

1. He blatantly ignored practically everyone else who expressed that they found this behavior bizarre, but the moment I posted (his other expressed scumread), it caused him to unvote.

Unvote, yes. Did it make him change his position? No. Unvoting a wagon with no wheels is more indicative of a good player than it's indicative of scum.

2. He didn't vote anyone else. Voting this slot immediately would've been very very town, but just pushing for another angle would've been pretty town too.

Why would voting you immediately be town?
Why is looking for a different angle not as town as pushing a different angle? It seems to me like most of his eggs were in the "wg = scum" basket so it seems unrealistic for him to pull out another strong scumread out of his ass and not jumping on you isn't scummy unless you two are scumbuddies.

You're not reading.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Reading MonkeyMan's ISO literally would answer every single question you asked me in that post. I'm completely lost as to how you can't answer those yourself.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Reading MonkeyMan's ISO literally would answer every single question you asked me in that post. I'm completely lost as to how you can't answer those yourself.

-Ank

The answers might seem obvious to you but not to others. You should answer them yourselves if you want people to actual listen to what you say.

I would expect him to be able to see what I'm talking about considering he's a lot more experienced than I am and has been focusing on you a lot this game. You've been talking about how we're on your scumlist for a decent chunk of the game (

especially

before that). That directly answers his questions for #2.

The question for #1 isn't even relevant mainly because he missed the above.

[Death Stare]

But honestly, I'm not really interested in talking with Nacho really anymore since at best we're just running in circles around each other.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

This game lacks nacho whiteknighting the living hell out of monkeyman

[Death Stare]

But honestly, I'm not really interested in talking with Nacho really anymore since at best we're just running in circles around each other.

-Ank

You're not interested in talking with me because you refuse to talk with me. Everything that we are talking about refers to opinion of alignment which is subjective which means that it's not as simple as going through an ISO and discovering the answer. The "oh he's more experienced he should know what I'm talking about" is bullshit and frustrating.

So these posts don't actually mean anything:

VOTE: Death Stare

Sure, I will sheep Nero.

But sure, lets flash lynch Death Stare.

Scum:

wreurts, Death Stare

A lot of people already scum read you so I see no point to pursue that either. I also feel like you have more than 2 votes on you but the votecount says otherwise.

A lot of people already scum read you so I see no point to pursue that either. I also feel like you have more than 2 votes on you but the votecount says otherwise.

....

I remember people thinking you were scummy and I thought you had at least 4 votes on you. I actually thought you had more votes than me which is where my disinterest came from.

That's 1/8 of the current posts he has in the thread that has that general thought process behind it, which sounds less impressive than it actually is with the sheer amount of posts he has that is fully dedicated to wgeurts.

There's been enough mentions in the thread about MonkeyMan scumreading this slot across the game that having to ask why I'd think he's townier for switching his vote to me instead of just unvoting wgeurts and sitting on his ass is town is basically nothing but fluff.

BTW, I never responded to this because it's pretty clear now that we're never going to get anywhere with this.

[Death Stare]

This game lacks nacho whiteknighting the living hell out of monkeyman

VOTE: Death Stare

This implies you KNOW I am town. Only 1 group of people can be certain about other people's alignments and that is scum.

Game over.

White Knighting

-Ank

[Death Stare]

I was aware that Monkey had already expressed a view on your slot. I still don't understand how immediately voting your slot after finding reason not to pursue the wg read would be town: sure, it would be logically consistent but you were/are a popular suspicion and if town, an easy mislynch. So, from your perspective, it seems townier to me that Monkey wouldn't pursue the easy lynch despite having a perfect excuse to: pursuing your lynch would end up on some side as null. The only reason I could seehim pursuing your lynch immediately after being town is if you assume he would forget about his suspicion on your slot as scum, which I find unlikely.

You stated why it would be town: it's logically consistent. He didn't give a fuck about how people thought about him before that, so switching wagons would've continued that thought process. Instead, the impression he gave changed to scum wanting to backpedal and be more careful about their play now that they're getting more heavily scrutinized for it.

I also have no idea why you keep suggesting we aren't going anywhere, why you keep acting like I'm continuously shutting you out: I'm not shutting you out, I continue to make attempts to understand your perspective and better clarify mine. Yes, I'm an aggressive player but so are you so the complaining that we won't ever get anywhere is ????

When did I ever say you were shutting me out? I said we were running around in circles around each other.

[Death Stare]

-Ank

[Death Stare]

ok nacho, i still don't get your deal with death stare.

he confused monkeyman in this game with the "famous" monkeyman from other games (bad meta) and that's why he started sheeping you.
i don't know, i'd have to sit down and parse their stuff, which i don't have time to do because i have to go right now.

toodles

ftr I disagree with the deathy2 scumread

guy reached out and that counts for a lot

also these last couple of posts came from

~iln

But I haven't been posting for a while.

[Death Stare]

What a great post to make as a page top

[Death Stare]

ok nacho, i still don't get your deal with death stare.

he confused monkeyman in this game with the "famous" monkeyman from other games (bad meta) and that's why he started sheeping you.
i don't know, i'd have to sit down and parse their stuff, which i don't have time to do because i have to go right now.

toodles

His case isn't good even if the right monkey man is in place.
Parse their stuff, find what they posted that was good.

This can't seriously be the only reason to scumread me right?

[Death Stare]

I don't pls share

[Death Stare]

Oh also wheres the question that ank didn't answer

[Death Stare]

I was aware that Monkey had already expressed a view on your slot. I still don't understand how immediately voting your slot after finding reason not to pursue the wg read would be town: sure, it would be logically consistent but you were/are a popular suspicion and if town, an easy mislynch. So, from your perspective, it seems townier to me that Monkey wouldn't pursue the easy lynch despite having a perfect excuse to: pursuing your lynch would end up on some side as null. The only reason I could seehim pursuing your lynch immediately after being town is if you assume he would forget about his suspicion on your slot as scum, which I find unlikely.

So why does us being a easy mislynch if town matter when he is not thinking of us as such and never considered us being town in the first place?

[Death Stare]

Oh also wheres the question that ank didn't answer

Read.

I did
But I still couldn't find it.

[Death Stare]

So that one summarizes to

Because we are an easy mislynch, monkey is more town for not pushing for our lynch immediately.
what the hell?

[Death Stare]

Like idgi
Maybe I'm just being sleep deprived but where did you even get the idea of us being an easy mislynch and monkey had that as a possibility when expressed his scumread on us?

[Death Stare]

But then there's a lot of stuffs that I don't get in this game

[Death Stare]

Prod dodge for awsum reason
Will be here tomorrow

[Death Stare]

I'm heavily struggling to keep up with this game right now. I'll try to sync up with my other head and see if I can get a read back on the game.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Can you point me to a case on star?

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Can you point me to a case on star?

-Ank

its called mollie is right.

With how little I trust your slot right now, this isn't going to get you a sheep vote.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

I just spent 15 minutes of my life arguing as to why you guyz were unlikely to be scum today and this is the thanks I get?

I want to get back up to speed with this game and have an idea of what's going on. Sheeping without knowing why doesn't accomplish that in any way whatsoever.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

UNVOTE: MTD

Pending hydra sync, but right now I don't like this vote. I'll defer to GIF on the 50shades read since he can read mollie better than I can read nacho, so consider the slot a townread from us now.

Not going to sheep at this point though. Maybe after we sync.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

back from ridiculous work weekend, catching up.

I'm particularly interested in what you can dredge up.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Still in the process of syncing

@T S O: Why did your overall attitude change from your first post to now? I was starting to lean town originally but that's rapidly faltering.

[Death Stare]

Yesterday was a clusterfuck that was impossible to sift through. Between the huge post spams that 50 shades has been posting and the sheer amount of walls that multiple people have been playing, trying to get a feel for what people are talking about is a lot more of a headache than it's worth.

Just point to why you think massive is scum.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Will look at massive cases.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Spoiler:

(1) Quite a slow start. (Remember, I was wondering whether the scums had been lurking early-Day1 but since all of you told me that my theory had been bullshyt, I dropped it.)

Dead null.

(2) 225:

"wgeurts wants to no lynch. wgeurts doesn't like random bandwagons. wgeurts wants to hold onto his vote. I don't know that mafia is the game for wgeurts."

– if both Wgeurts and Massive are scum, this might have been a coaching. Also, 293; he's responding to Wgeurts's 289. Wgeurts:

"Ok, everyone here is so much better at mafia than on the other forum. Any articles anywhere I can read to improve?"

Massive:

"They're not better, they're just different. And aw you say the sweetest things to me! But seriously, the best way to "get better" is to just keep playing..."

– Yet another coaching? (Caveat: I made similar posts when I was interacting with Wgeurts on early-Day1.)

#225 is a weird post, but it's not alignment-indicative. #293 is a huge stretch.

(3) Davesaz, 237:

"I have seen massive in another game, though he was NK'd before I replaced in so none of the interaction was in real time. I'd like to see more of him in this game."

And Massive's answer in 237

"You and me both! Getting NKed N1 is like the worst thing ever."

– a kind of soft-defense on each other?

I don't understand how this is a defense.

(4) 322 Massive's answer for my 318. Aneninen:

"Massive had very few posts with little content. A bit less scummy but it's still scummy. I saw that he's posted recently, I'm going to read those posts as soon as I can."

. Massive:

"SPOILER ALERT: You'll still find it scummy. Especially the part where I say I could vote you."

– well... either Massive thinks I'm the kind of idiot who scumreads everyone who votes for them – or Massive knows that I'm town??? Whattafukk?! Yes, the first part is also possible but he must have noticed that I had never scumread MTD, in spite of his vote!

This looks more like a reaction-fish than anything else.

(6) 593 and 620 – these posts seem to be genuine. Though, having read them again somehow they look less contentful now.

I don't know about wgeurts prod dodging in #620, but I'm not really getting the same vibe from #593 that you are.

(7) The Nero-case starts in 610. I've already talked about that. Apart from the Nero-case there were not much else in Massive's posts for a while. (If I consider his answers to other players, eg. me the part of the "Nero-case".)

I'll wait to comment on this for the moment, as I can see either alignment making that type of case.

(8) Why did he claim at all in 1082? That was absolutely unneccessary, in my opinion.

This is town, if anything. I don't know about anyone else, but I find it a bit weird for mafia to claim a role that town generally doesn't put much thought into keeping around for the role itself when they're in the process of being wagoned up. It's not a very strong tell, but I consider it one nonetheless. Agreed that it's unnecessary, though.

(9) Massive and Nero. Massive, 1082:

" Nero is a sheep here and I still haven't seen anything to disprove the idea he will jump on anything that moves regardless of reasons."

. Nero, 1083:

"Also I didn't jump on everything yesterday like you claim and its rather interesting that you are changing your push on me to something else."

. Massive, 1090:

"You jumped on wguerts when you thought you had found a rolling ball and had to backtrack to fill in your scum read. Doing exactly the same here."

– That's not entirely true. I launched a case against Wgeurts on late-Day1, which contained plenty of new things, in my opinion. Nero still didn't jump on that wagon – neither on late-Day1, nor now.

This has a bit more meat in it. It's something I can agree with.

(10) Heartless and Massive. Massive in 1111:

"I already know neither Anti nor TTH can actually read me."

– I wonder whether there is a proof for that. 1132 (an answer for Heartless's case) is not an informative answer, in my opinion.

I don't understand what massive is trying to achieve here, but I also don't understand how this is scummy. How is this scummy again?

Thoughts on Aneninen's case. I think someone else posted one too, lemme see.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Nothing in wgeurts' analysis is compelling to me.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Do you mean in cases on wg or analysis by wg? What do you think of his massive votes yesterday/today?

Case by wgeurts on massive; the one you quoted in #1209.

I'd have to look at him again to give you a better answer, but I'm not convinced either way of opportunistic scum or easily influenced town at the moment.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

wgeurts apparently never really had a massive-scumread until today.

I'm now even less impressed with the vote today.

[Death Stare]

Oh, while you're here, can you point me towards an sthar case? I'm like 90% sure your slot was a big pusher of that wagon.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

[Death Stare]

I guess the best thing to do is concentrate on the best available maybe scum.
VOTE: wgeurts

Can you point to somewhere in the thread where you explain this?

-Ank

[Death Stare]

I need to listen to my gut more.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Monkeyman is scum.

Discuss.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

I'm tempted to call Nero Cain and massive town from that flip, though.

Nero was town regardless of 50 shades' alignment, though.

[Death Stare]

Monkeyman is scum.

Discuss.

-Ank

Care to explain the missing kill?

I am a bulletproof PGO and nacho died trying to kill me.

[Death Stare]

lol

[Death Stare]

Or just simply you roleblocked us amirite
Then this game just got easier.

[Death Stare]

Your case on wgeurts is still incredibly bleh and Nacho trying to discredit me pointing it out is a lot more telling.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Btw Shades is town and I don't get why people are voting there.

Why do you think this?

MTD, i think they are town too but I was just curious.

lalalalalalala

-Ank

[Death Stare]

VOTE: MonkeyMan

Let's dance.

[Death Stare]

No, you are scum hence why I am asking why only a scum got killed.

But I will take your post as a scum claim.

Then I dont see why you ask me of all people to ask for a missing kill?
If you roleblocked us, say truthfully. because that means we have at least 3 conftown.

[Death Stare]

I am town and if you roleblocked us, that means there are at least 3 clears (confirmed doctor, his save, and a vig who shot nacho).

[Death Stare]

Hm actually 4.
Ive thought about nacho coaching for roleblock claim WIFOM and that would hurt scum more.
So yeah. 4 conftowns at this point makes this game very easy.

[Death Stare]

So I looked at the setup page finally.

TTTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker

Godfather Flip

TTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)

Godfather Flip

TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather

More than 2 townies

T = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)

Flipped Townies

0 Ts = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather

[s/]

Flipped Townies

TTTTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
TTTTTT = Goon + Godfather
TTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)

Yeah so we have confirmed one mafia left and that vig was probably a serial killer. High chance of mafia crosskilling SK N2. But then where did the N1 kill go?

If MonkeyMan's roleblocker claim is true (it probably is and gets rid of the chance of scum RB claiming RB) that has more than 1 shot, that means there are at least 2 Rs in play, right?

So RRTTTTT (9 VT + Roleblocker vs Goon + Godfather vs Serial Killer) is the only possibility we have if MonkeyMan is a full roleblocker.

MonkeyMan claimed that he blocked wugerts N1, who was a VT. Therefore yeah, crosskill happened both night.

That means the remaining mafia knows who the Serial Killer is. Hue.

[Death Stare]

P-Edit: well I got ninja'd.

[Death Stare]

Wait, but then where did D2 kill go?

Hmm.

I'm willing to be flipped for the sake of people puzzlesolving, but does my townflip condemns MonkeyMan?
SK has only 1 bulletproof and since wugerts was roleblocked N1, that means SK didn't kill or mafia hit a bulletproof SK.

[Death Stare]

So I looked at the setup page finally.

TTTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker

Godfather Flip

TTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)

Godfather Flip

TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather

More than 2 townies

T = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)

Flipped Townies

0 Ts = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather

[s/]

Flipped Townies

TTTTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
TTTTTT = Goon + Godfather
TTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)

Yeah so we have confirmed one mafia left and that vig was probably a serial killer. High chance of mafia crosskilling SK N2. But then where did the N1 kill go?

If MonkeyMan's roleblocker claim is true (it probably is and gets rid of the chance of scum RB claiming RB) that has more than 1 shot, that means there are at least 2 Rs in play, right?

So RRTTTTT (9 VT + Roleblocker vs Goon + Godfather vs Serial Killer) is the only possibility we have if MonkeyMan is a full roleblocker.

MonkeyMan claimed that he blocked wugerts N1, who was a VT. Therefore yeah, crosskill happened both night.

That means the remaining mafia knows who the Serial Killer is. Hue.

Well actually
scrap this lol

[Death Stare]

This is why I don't setup spec

[Death Stare]

Prod accepted.

I will look through and post thoughts soonish.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

After reading the day's events more slowly, I think it's solved. The SK is pretty clear to me too, but now is not the time to go into that since we can lynch only one.

VOTE: Death Stare

You should out this info if you've apparently solved the game. Stay silent if it's role info, but there's literally no reason to keep it hidden if it's not.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Right now I'm waiting for DeathStare's explanation – and MonkeyMan's answers for my questions.

Hi. I'm here right now. Can you point me to what I'm supposed to explain?

-Ank

[Death Stare]

I was doing so fucking well too.

Your version about the Night2 events. Your reasons for voting for MonkeyMan. Plus, I'd like to see some answers for my questions asked in 1389.

It's pretty obvious from where I'm standing where the other kill went; it was protected by a doctor (which should not claim). One thing I would like people to think about is who out of 50Shades and us would be more likely to be sent to make the kill if we're scumpartners.

I've already outlined my MonkeyMan scumread here and here. The first one is self-explanatory (go look throughout somewhat-early D1 if your memory on it has waned. It took up enough space that quoting or posting links is going to be annoying for everyone involved), but the second one looks like newb-scum trying to find an excuse for townreading their partner.

Re: 1389

Wait-oh.
MonkeyMan had not posted anything about being a Roleblocker before you posted this. How do you know what happened at Night?!

It's not exactly hard to guess. GIF was the one who posted that, but the way MM was so overly eager to 1v1 us in this tunnelly way was a pretty heavy softclaim of a role guilty. A cop would've just outed their result if they were going to go on this route, so the only other option is a role blocker.

The rest... I can't really answer. This is all GIF's territory and the amount of syncing we've done in the past forever is virtually nil.

[Death Stare]

Wow, where did that come from? lol

I'm waiting.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

I haven't yet decided if it helps town more to post my casae now than it does to wait. It certainly doesn't make sense to do so solely on the request of confscum.

Considering that you have no explanation whatsoever for why you're so sure we're scum, I'd say it's pretty important that you do. At least explain why you're so sure.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

This game lacks nacho whiteknighting the living hell out of monkeyman

Whiteknighting is when scum defends town.

Also, with Nero saying I am scum he is scum now too. This post actually looks like a buss to me. Might be me thinking everyone who doesn't believe me is scum because I don't believe people are inherently dumb.

Hey Monkey
this is a serious advice regardless of my alignment and your alignment in this game.

Go play some more newbie game after this.

[Death Stare]

vote Nero

There, now I'm hunting. I can't believe you even went back to that when no one believed you yesterday.

no

[Death Stare]

Also I have no idea why people are taking that lol-BP-PGO claim seriously.

[Death Stare]

Syncing~

-Ank

[Death Stare]

davesaz, standby for the moment on answering my question.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

btw, just so this is out there: both of us are okay with being today's lynch if it will help bring clarity to town, but we have one demand beforehand:

Every

player currently alive gives their opinion on the current situation and a read on us.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Self-voting outside of scum self-hammering is anti-town, that's why.

The demand also has yet to be fulfilled, so I will not accept a lynch at this point.

GIF and I are still in the process of syncing. Our reads have significantly progressed since daystart.

[Death Stare]

-Ank

( *:

[Death Stare]

Aneninen:

1. If you're going to just discount whatever I say, then why did you ask me what my version of night 2 was anyway? Imagine if you're town in this situation. Wouldn't you end up with the same conclusion?
2. Your response has nothing to do with what I said at all. I was asking which between 50Shades and us would send in the mafia kill.
3. After syncing with GIF and talking about the setup, we both believe at this point that it's nearly impossible for MM to be scum, so this is a moot argument anyway. There's only one possible way he's a mafia roleblocker, but that relies on terrible townplay (worse than I believe anyone here is capable of).
4. I already stated why a cop doesn't make sense. Debunk that argument and explain why it makes sense. Saying it makes perfect sense and not even addressing why I said it wasn't a strong possibility is badposting.

I fully believe GIF was referring to the white knighting statement with that advice. Also, GIF was the one who did all the setup-spec in thread. I didn't even read any of it.

I'm probably going to be unable to post for the next close to 12 hours. If we are hammered by that point, then town

NEEDS

to massclaim tomorrow.

[Death Stare]

One last note: if the last sentence happens, then you are most likely in MyLo. I believe this is a 3-man scumteam.

-Ank (last two are mine).

[Death Stare]

I realized while I was in the shower that GIF and I completely discounted the possibility of there no being a town roleblocker at all. We'll have to discuss this more while we finish syncing.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Lack of Heartless is saddening.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Aneninen: You ignored my requests (2 and 4). I was explaining my point and asking for yours in 4 and straight up asking a question in 2. Dont blow them off.

@3: forgot since I was in a hurry. I'll unvote (and quote this post) on the hydra account when I have access to a computer.

@1: There indeed are other scenarios. The ones I saw (like another roleblock or no kill) simply make no sense.

MonkeyMan: I'd have to talk to GIF to give a better answer, but off the top of my head, I would say Heartless or MTD.

davesaz: There is nothing else that makes sense to me except DRTTTTT.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

It's pretty obvious from where I'm standing where the other kill went

You say it was so obvious where the kill went yet you think it was to two people? How does that make any sense. I was lead to believe you would give one answer but yet you gave to and said: "I need to talk to my partner to give a better answer."

You are scum.

Either you're misunderstanding or misreping. It's pretty clear that I meant doc-protected.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

One last note: if the last sentence happens, then you are most likely in MyLo. I believe this is a 3-man scumteam.

With one scum already flipped?

You are correct. Ignore the MyLo statement.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

UNVOTE: MonkeyMan

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Lack of Heartless is saddening.

-Ank

/hasn't said a word to us since the beginning of the game

el-oh-el

VOTE: deathstare

Since when commenting on a player required to talk to them first?

[Death Stare]

I was lead to believe you would give one answer but yet you gave to and said: "I need to talk to my partner to give a better answer."

FTR, we were syncing for a while yesterday and never finished. We have a bunch of reads that differ from each other and we haven't butted heads around large chunks of the game yet.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

You want to know how it should be super obvious this is a scum lynch? The lynch hasn't happened yet and scum would easily be willing to lynch town based off of a RB claimed block.

Or all scum are already on the wagon.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

monkey, dave, anen, heartless

Show me where the scum is in there.

I mainly posted that to show that your logic is off. What I think is more likely is that it is correct if it's a 2-man scumteam or wrong if it's a 3-man scumteam. I find it more likely with a 3-man that one scum is looking to try to resist the wagon to gain towncred when we flip town.

but if Monkey is scum and is basically fakeclaiming then that would be pretty much suicide me thinks unless he has a scumbuddy left so I'm of the mind to lynch not Monkey/DS today.

Is it just me, or is this trying REALLLLY hard to avoid having to make a stand on Monkey / DS?

GIF finds it very likely that Nero is SK if we have one, so it makes sense that he'd rather not resolve this WIFOM immediately.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Aneninen:

@2: This is what I'm asking you: Assuming that 50Shades and this slot are a scumteam, which slot do you believe would have went to kill someone?
@4: You basically just described why it doesn't make sense for MM to be anything but a roleblocker. GIF's read on MM in day 1 changed considerably after finding out that he was a new player instead of this guy. Considering the level of play consistent with newer players, he's most likely to posture first for a pseudo-guilty and claim outright for a guaranteed guilty. With this in mind, how is it not reasonable for us to figure out he's a roleblocker before he claims it?

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Why does every link to a post in this thread on this page lead to the OP?

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Spoiler: GIF posts

Final read

Scum: {dave, Heartless}
If there's a SK, it's Nero.

Nero-SK is actually pretty easy to see if we assume that TSO was killed by SK not mafia.
Nero-SK lolkills TSO because he hates his guts and kills 50 because he think they are mafia.
That's what I told Ankamius, but if I have to choose between town and SK, I would choose town for him.

Scumlist is 95% based on pure VCA (At least, on my part. I didn't even skim the 75% of this game) but since we have like little bit less than 8 hours left we'll be able to come up with something more decent than a VCA stuff. I don't see anyone other than us getting lynched anyway if not for pure utility lynch so we have plenty of time.

(I'll start doing stuff tomorrow. I'm back from work and I'm tired as hell)

Did we not claim?

I thought we did ages ago.
If it wasn't obvious enough, VT.

Also 8 days, not hours lol

There is 0% chance of us being the SK

---

BTW we haven't synced at all since last time. I have no work tomorrow so we'll probably be able to hammer stuff out.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Also, what if one mafia killed the other mafia so that the killing mafia could claim vig?

This would be one of the most awkward and risky gambits for the lowest possible gain if it succeeds, especially since they had no way of knowing what was in the setup.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Too many silent people.

The

only

way there can be missing kills, without MonkeyMan's roleblock having hit scum, is additional town PRs. And if there is even one more, there

must

be

at least

three to give us a total of at least 5. The only setups with a godfather are 0-2 T's (5+ power roles) and 5-7 T's. (0-2 power roles)

Isn't there still the possibility that the RB claim was false?
Also you are ignoring the possibility of crosskills.
Also don't forget the potential SK-bulletproof.

Faking that as town is VI play and being a mafia roleblocker means that this is a very risky gambit for a pretty small payoff.

-Ank