(Hilariously) Unbalanced Mafia 2 [Over]

[Ankamius]

Conf

[Ankamius]

I'm a miller.

VOTE: shos

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: shos
VOTE: farside22

Gotta agree. That attack reeks.

[Ankamius]

I am a miller to all cops, but there's more to that story than I'm stating right now. This is as far as I am explaining right now, so don't even bother asking.

I don't believe Pine is scum right now; it's perfectly reasonable for two millers to exist in this game, especially since what he's claiming is a bit different from mine.

UNVOTE: shos
VOTE: farside22

Gotta agree. That attack reeks.

Muffin wants me to vote you. Do you think that's a good idea?

Why are you asking me?

UNVOTE: shos
VOTE: farside22

Gotta agree. That attack reeks.

So why did you not say anything about it at the time?

Because I didn't notice it at the time.

[Ankamius]

@Ank, what do you appear as to cops? Does your PM say that at all?

The fact he's claiming a different miller makes no sense. If you come back as just "mafia" but he comes back as communist, that makes no sense. It suggests the cop role gets both "mafia" and "Communist". If a cop gets "Communist town" then Pine isn't a miller at all. Doubly so because there's no Communist in my role pm.

It doesn't say I come up as anything specific, just guilty.

[Ankamius]

2 pages and I get to call Peregrine the VI this game.
This should be fun. How many more do I get to try and figure out before deadline?

2 pages and I get to call Peregrine the VI this game.
This should be fun. How many more do I get to try and figure out before deadline?

Seriously? The ones bolded are usually confirmed. Mastin did it backwards.

I know but since I was the first confirmed, the reverse made sense.
Also it means I don't have to think about you and wonder if your scum this game.

The general tone behind these two posts when you put them together. It looks like an attempt to discredit followed by a passive-aggressive tone that suggests an attack while also being vague enough that you can just go right back and claim it wasn't.

[Ankamius]

Work is wrecking me today, so I'll likely be unable to post until tomorrow. Anyone who's waiting on me for something (I know there's at least two) quote for me again, please.

I'm here for about 20 mins if anyone wants to talk.

[Ankamius]

I think the setup spec is useless and shouldn't be focused on as much as it is. I'll look to see who is doing most of it later, but I'm fine with wagoning anyone who is.

Pine wagon is bad. No reason to lynch him for the claim without any info.
Eddie or whoever should just out what they're hinting at or just say he's not revealing so we can get past this town fascist business.

Awesome+Pirate Ika is blurrrrgh. I don't like the replace out but the rest is null.

PEdit: sec

[Ankamius]

Any cop gets a guilty result.

[Ankamius]

Looks like it.

[Ankamius]

Role says Miller.

I'll ask about it later. Gotta go now.

[Ankamius]

@Frightened inmate number3:

Spoiler:

Exactly. I'm on the hunt, along with the other townies, for scum in this game. However, I'll be hunting 1 group in particular.

Scum is scum.

This also feels forced.

Could be both. If you are town, there shouldn't be any reason for you to focus on any scum in particular.

I'm looking for your thoughts on recent happenings Ankamius.

Flum, you seriously don't see the scum motive to claim miller? Seriously? If town believes scum claiming miller, cop investigations against him/her/it/e/them are useless.

This. Plus anyone remotely familiar with this game, or has done some research should know that millers would be a role town is given.

lastly we say this is obviously the mafia
please see how obvious this is

vote pro hawk

Can you explain what's wrong with those posts? I get the opposite impression, if anything.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: farside22
VOTE: Klingoncelt

Whee~

[Ankamius]

Hi!

Is this your scumgame I'm seeing?

[Ankamius]

Hi!

Is this your scumgame I'm seeing?

Oooh, sorry, no. My scumgame blows.

So basically... IIoA?

[Ankamius]

Hi!

Is this your scumgame I'm seeing?

Oooh, sorry, no. My scumgame blows.

So basically... IIoA?

What do you mean?

I usually don't have much to say on Day 1. I don't know half the players in this game, so I'm doing what interacting I can, picking up little clues and vibes as I go along.

Like you, Pine, and Alchemist being the Communist team.

I mean that until this post, all of your posts have been IIoA or just commenting on stuff without saying anything. You're not really interacting with people or trying to move the game along. I don't even understand why us three are the team or why you're voting Eddie or why you're so sure it's multiball or anything.

You have major dissonance between words and actions.

[Ankamius]

if it helps tammy, i have a role read on titus already. Shes a good day 2 lynch at least.
-ika

oh

[Ankamius]

I dont like the inconsistencies, and I'm certainly not going to unvote because of them.

wat

[Ankamius]

I think the setup spec is useless and shouldn't be focused on as much as it is. I'll look to see who is doing most of it later, but I'm fine with wagoning anyone who is.

Pine wagon is bad. No reason to lynch him for the claim without any info.
Eddie or whoever should just out what they're hinting at or just say he's not revealing so we can get past this town fascist business.

Awesome+Pirate Ika is blurrrrgh. I don't like the replace out but the rest is null.

PEdit: sec

That assumes that setup spec is a scum tell. Some players, like Ika and I, use setup spec regardless of alignment.

I never said anywhere that it is. The main reason I'm okay with wagoning people who are is so I can get an actual read on them and have them do more direct game-related stuff right away.

[Ankamius]

I usually don't have much to say on Day 1. I don't know half the players in this game, so I'm doing what interacting I can, picking up little clues and vibes as I go along.

Like you, Pine, and Alchemist being the Communist team.

I mean that until this post, all of your posts have been IIoA or just commenting on stuff without saying anything. You're not really interacting with people or trying to move the game along. I don't even understand why us three are the team or why you're voting Eddie or why you're so sure it's multiball or anything.

You have major dissonance between words and actions.

The 3 of you all claimed Miller. Pine claimed Communist Miller. Sure, millers aren't necessarily related, but with the Communist/Fascist faction thing going on, I'm certain that you and Alchemist are Pine's partners.

Eddie outed himself as a Fascist.

We now have 4 choices for lynching. Eddie's the best one.

You don't think that's scumhunting, Ank?

So basically, you think all 3 of us are scum buddies because we're all claiming miller-type roles?

[Ankamius]

The 3 of you all claimed Miller. Pine claimed Communist Miller. Sure, millers aren't necessarily related, but with the Communist/Fascist faction thing going on, I'm certain that you and Alchemist are Pine's partners.

Eddie outed himself as a Fascist.

We now have 4 choices for lynching. Eddie's the best one.

You don't think that's scumhunting, Ank?

So basically, you think all 3 of us are scum buddies because we're all claiming miller-type roles?

Yes. Yes I do.

So you think that three members of a single scumteam all claimed miller type roles and willingly drew a ton of attention to ourselves early game as well as giving town and possibly another faction free information about the setup without getting any setup information in return whatsoever, while also painting a wide target on their heads for other scumteams and/or a serial killer type role if one ends up being considered significantly town later on?

That's a gambit that has just about every disadvantage a scumteam would want to avoid and basically no upsides. Your reasoning makes no sense.

[Ankamius]

I'm glad that everyone is ignoring how blatantly transparent scum-Klingon is being.

[Ankamius]

I'm glad that everyone is ignoring how blatantly transparent scum-Klingon is being.

Explain?
I mean, I've pointed out a possible slip, but what other things are there? What do you think of the possible slip?

She wasn't interacting at all and just passively commented on things until I engaged her, which she responded by saying she has scumreads on everyone who claimed so far despite it making no sense whatsoever. She's not scumhunting in the slightest; she's trying to coast.

[Ankamius]

Forgot to mention that Klingon said she was interacting with people to try to get reads before throwing out those miller-is-scum reads.

[Ankamius]

I believe millers like to out themselves Day1 to avoid mislynches caused by cop investigations. So nothing unusual there.

In post 156 Pine claimed Town Communist Miller. Not the sort of title that rolls off the tongue, is it?
And then Eddie calls the Fascists a faction.

Communist. Fascists. 2 + 2, my friend.

You and the other commies jumped out and claimed miller to avoid being called out as commie scum.

At least that's how it looks to me.

i get that pine could actually be communist and claimed so that he is essentially immune to faction investigators. But why do you jump to

all

of them being communists? Why can't the others be town?

It's entirely possible that the other two are Town. Is Pine solo? No, I think he's part of a team. I think the team is 3 players. So there are 2 Communist Something-or-others out there.

OR the 3 Millers are all Communists. I think the latter.

You think what seems right to you.

Just going to point out again that I already listed how this makes no sense at all.

[Ankamius]

Hi Frightened Inmate Number3

[Ankamius]

I like this muffin guy
he gets me

wisdom why don't you

Don't dodge it and just answer, because I would really like to know why this eyestott push is happening too.

[Ankamius]

1. Read his iso
2. Realize it's a quality vote
3. ???
4. Sheep it for great justice

I'll go hunt for myself if you give me shit to look for. The only people I will ever sheep are people who are either confirmed town or people who are so town I am willing to stake the game on it. You're neither.

[Ankamius]

ank - not feeling it yet i don't think. ika says that as scum ank lurks a LOT.

He's clearly referencing the Robin Williams game. Everyone will figure out eventually that my lurking in that game is dead null except in very specific circumstances.

Also, I have an average of like 5.5 posts a day in this game. Unless he can make a case for me active lurking or whatever, then he's objectively wrong about me lurking.

[Ankamius]

I'm not seeing the ProHawk-scum sentiment.

[Ankamius]

He never stated the miller claim and suspecting me in the same context in the quotes you gave, so I don't understand what you're getting at there.

[Ankamius]

I think we're way too far on a different wavelength, farside. I can get what's scummy about those posts, but we seem to understand them way differently.

Like the second explanation behind my push on you is bizarre to me because of when it happened more than how jokey it is, and I don't really think the miller point is indicative of anything right now, but with what I'm seeing from him in this new light, he'll eventually shoot himself in the foot with it as scum later on. The Klingon reasoning works, but mainly because he never gave any indication whatsoever that he was willing to go back to see how she 'scumslipped'.

I'm more okay with lynching him now than I was before, though.

[Ankamius]

Klingon I think you're more expected to refine your reads than anything else considering you've been tunneling the same reads the entire game since the first time you gave any in the first place.

[Ankamius]

Mollie was that you who #d at me and am I getting the meaning right?

[Ankamius]

Mollie was that you who #d at me and am I getting the meaning right?

yes # you!

cos I was grateful for you clarifying.

but I am not sure the meaning that you are coming up with other than she needs to look at the gamestate as whole. was that what you meant?

I thought that meant agreement, so pretty much.

[Ankamius]

Wisdom I asked that like ten to fifteen pages ago and never got a satisfactory answer either.

[Ankamius]

Hi DGB, can you do a quick favor for me?

Toon fighter is scum. Very tentative and wishy washy. Am I wrong?

VOTE: ToonFighter

I think Klingon is town, and I'm null on ToonFighter.

VOTE: ToonFighter

I think Klingon is town, and I'm null on ToonFighter.

Meaning, you have no scumreads?

None are being wagon'ed right now. Compromising.

Explain what changed between these posts, please.

Actually, who are your scumreads too and why?

[Ankamius]

Oh right, FIN3 exists.

I still want that answer to why the quoted ProHawk posts are scum.

[Ankamius]

I still want that answer to why the quoted ProHawk posts are scum.

Who is this question for?

FIN3, the slot I mentioned in that post.

[Ankamius]

Ankamius. One question, off the top of your head, to ask me. GO!

Why can't I remember anything you've done this game so far?

[Ankamius]

I don't read ISOs unless I already know what general area I'm looking at. I'm never going to read a full ISO just because.

My best scumhunting this game was when I was the first person to scumread Klingon, before she ever did her reads that everyone else seems to scumread her for. Actually, I'm pretty sure she only revealed those reads in the first place because I was pressuring her. Her posts up to that point had been completely useless and were basically just IIoA or passive comments posing as questions towards other people without having indicated at any point that she was getting reads.

[Ankamius]

Hi, I'm a miller. Don't scumread people for just being millers like Klingon, please. Put more effort into reads.

[Ankamius]

shos: Show, don't tell.

[Ankamius]

I'm getting less impressed with eyestott as time goes on. His posts feel more and more like fake scumhunting as time goes on.

[Ankamius]

I'll give you a hint because I don't want to show; take a look at VC 28. do you think toon felt nervous, being the top wagon with 9/14 votes with two weeks to deadline?

He's on V/LA until tomorrow and has been since several VCs before that one. How did you get to this conclusion?

[Ankamius]

Oh its just a pressure vote on someone who currently is VLA. So... why exactly?

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: KlingonCelt
VOTE: Toon Fighter

[Ankamius]

I got prodded. |:

I'm up to the start of page 77. I'll do more stuff from that page on.

[Ankamius]

Not really convinced on shos being scum anymore. I'm not very impressed with the neighborhood that cleared him, but I'm not particularly interested in trying to scout in there for potential scum. FIN3 is close to making me change my mind on this.

Jackel98's post #1901 is weird. #1910 and #1911 are awful and I can definitely lynch this slot for them.

I'm feeling a lot better about Muffin.

Nobody Special's #1965 is giving me scumvibes.

I've read all of Wisdom's posts from 77-82 and there's not a single one that I get a town feel from. This is really worrying, especially since I don't remember having any read in particular on him before either.

Disagree with Pine's #2042 assessment on the TF wagon. I feel that the wagon not being completed is more due to several other slots being distractions combined with him more fading into the background. I don't like the rest of his post either.

[Ankamius]

I don't like the shos wagon.

TF it is.

[Ankamius]

Klingon, how many scum do you think there are?

Originally I thought there were 9, 3 each in Communists, Fascists, and a third group. However, FIN3's antics changed my thinking, I now think there's 2 Scumteams and her as the Jester, so 7 total.

Why did you think there was a third group and no 3Ps? What part of FIN3's "antics" made you stop thinking there is a 3rd group? WHy do you refer to the supposed jester as scum?

I'm not going over the math thing yet again. ISO my posts.

FIN is a Jester. She's doing her damndest to get lynched. Again, go to the math in my ISOs. If there's a 3rd party, then the third group of Scum might well be independent 3rd parties - the Jester, likely an SK, and maybe another - vampire, or werewolf, or cult leader, et cetera.

As for her being Scum, she's gone beyond annoying trollishness to outing her neighborhood - that's straight up Scum behavior. But since she's a Jester I don't want her lynched. I'd like to see her NK'd.

Klingon's back to the top of my scumlist. I legitimately would support a flashwagon on her if one appeared.

DGB is town. woo
I don't agree with shos being town from that post though, mainly because of how immediately docile he was when told it wouldn't happen.

[Ankamius]

Klingon's back to the top of my scumlist. I legitimately would support a flashwagon on her if one appeared.

Explain your post, Ank.

Setup speculation when there isn't any reason to be speculating the setup.
The way you're speculating the setup is so far out there that it's really difficult to believe you actually think it is the case.
It progressed from something that seemed plausible into a mess (three different types of SK roles? come on) with no basis for your thought process to have gone that direction in the first place.

Basically, you're just throwing shit about the setup out there to muddy the waters when it doesn't make sense to either be thinking about it or speculating that wildly in the first place. The whole thing reeks.

[Ankamius]

Klingon's back to the top of my scumlist. I legitimately would support a flashwagon on her if one appeared.

Explain your post, Ank.

Setup speculation when there isn't any reason to be speculating the setup.
The way you're speculating the setup is so far out there that it's really difficult to believe you actually think it is the case.
It progressed from something that seemed plausible into a mess (three different types of SK roles? come on) with no basis for your thought process to have gone that direction in the first place.

Basically, you're just throwing shit about the setup out there to muddy the waters when it doesn't make sense to either be thinking about it or speculating that wildly in the first place. The whole thing reeks.

That's very town. Particularly from people I trained. I train people to look for what's possible then what is.

Two scumteams and three independent SK-type roles?

I don't find that explanation very convincing anyway since that's something I expect is pretty easily fakeable.

[Ankamius]

Also, I'm not answering the question. We've had enough posts on setup spec in the first half of the thread and it's going to get us even further nowhere now than it did then.

[Ankamius]

Holy christ, almost TWENTY pages since I went to bed?

I'm going to read all of it... slowly.

<<< Slowly? At that rate, you'll never catch up! >>>

[Ankamius]

I'm on page 99 and my brain is melting.

Can someone beat some sense into this for me please?

[Ankamius]

Also can we lynch Fluminator?

[Ankamius]

Wary of Titus.
BlizZard is probably town
Awesome is town. Never ever lynch this.
Fluminator is scumscumscum
Wisdom is probably scum

The shos situation is the biggest problem with the gamestate right now. We either need to flip him or someone that's not directly part of this mess so we can have a better shot at figuring this out. I'm going to wait for the other members of the neighborhood to come in and talk before thinking about which is better, but I'll support the latter simply because Fluminator exists.

Also, I have a possible theory. Lemme check up on that real quick.

[Ankamius]

Okay, well, I can't figure out one way or another whether farside22 could have protected shos, but she voted him late enough in the day that I don't believe there was enough time for her to get a strong townread on him.

[Ankamius]

Awesome: What do you think of Fluminator's posts this day phase?

[Ankamius]

Why is Awesome town? I do not see it.

There's multiple posts by that slot this day phase that give me these warm tingly feelings that no scum could ever fake.

[Ankamius]

Awesome can you respond to my question please?

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Fluminator

[Ankamius]

Another 10 pages? Seriously?

[Ankamius]

that assumes that every scum faction knows about the existence of every other scum faction, which I don't think is that likely

Even with her saying that there's 3man teams?

[Ankamius]

Wary of Titus.
BlizZard is probably town
Awesome is town. Never ever lynch this.
Fluminator is scumscumscum
Wisdom is probably scum

The shos situation is the biggest problem with the gamestate right now. We either need to flip him or someone that's not directly part of this mess so we can have a better shot at figuring this out. I'm going to wait for the other members of the neighborhood to come in and talk before thinking about which is better, but I'll support the latter simply because Fluminator exists.

Also, I have a possible theory. Lemme check up on that real quick.

Yes ika, I have reads.

[Ankamius]

Fluminator: You had six posts in day 2 at the time that I posted my read on you and except for one, all of them are completely passive setup speculation or just useless information that doesn't say anything. Even the post that doesn't fit this category is a question that you never followed up on.

Also, I don't remember you making anywhere near as big a fuss on me suspecting you in the other game we played together. I came into this game with the impression that you were a calm and collected type player, so seeing you aggressively try to discredit my read isn't going to do you any favors.

[Ankamius]

Wisdom: I haven't been getting any town feel from your posting this game and some of your posts give me scum feels.

Considering that the opposite happened in both our past games, I'm willing to trust my gut intrinsically.

[Ankamius]

I'll have to ISO again to point any in particular out, but I'm not doing it right now since I work in 6 hours and haven't slept yet.

[Ankamius]

V/LA until Friday

I got a tough schedule this week. I'll be fine on the weekend, but keep this in mind if I start talking nonsense until then.

[Ankamius]

What miller claim?

[Ankamius]

Get back to me on that. I'm sleeping now.

[Ankamius]

This is what happens when I V/LA...

Can someone summarize the last 20 pages? I remember the PeregrineV ProHawk case, but that can't have been the only thing that has happened in 20 pages. I'd go read it, but I'm still zombified.

[Ankamius]

Ok.

Does that have anything to do with why he's being wagoned?

[Ankamius]

The guilty and the claim are two completely separate points.

[Ankamius]

your 4074 sounded like you didnt know why hes being wagoned

No. Like I said, I was aware of the guilty. I'm trying to figure out if the jailkeeper claim is part of the reason too.

I've been town jailkeeper in the past, so it would require some extra oomph if the answer is yes.

[Ankamius]

Oh hey I get to be lazy and not read...

[Ankamius]

Consider my vote on Wisdom. I'll wait until a vote count since I'm laying in my bed feeling like death from lack of sleep.

[Ankamius]

Lol I'm okay with a BlizZard lynch after those 2 posts.

VOTE: Wisdom

I prefer this, though.

PEdit: 3 posts, not 2

PPedit: 4

[Ankamius]

Nah, PV is town.

[Ankamius]

Scum are going to be pushing me because they fucking benefit from lynching town.

It will keep the vig/lynch on shos and therefore off them.

Do not fucking let them drown the town out.

So if shos isn't scum, what exactly is he?

[Ankamius]

Forget that question. I'm getting games mixed up.

[Ankamius]

Okay, I have a general question:

1. Was it ever revealed why the neighborhood had such a strong townread on shos day 1?

[Ankamius]

My issue with voting shos is that when I look back to how the day 1 wagons went, it feels like that was a lynch scum was trying to force through, so I'd feel more comfortable tearing apart the part of the wagon that was most adamant about him dying day 1 than him today. Wisdom both adheres to that perfectly and doesn't give me any kind of fuzzy feelings either.

[Ankamius]

I'm aware. That's why flipping him means close to nothing in that sense.

[Ankamius]

I care less about the first point since you're more likely to flip scum. The next two is information about the cop shenanigans, which lynching you will also start to unravel. The last one is basically the same if you're lynched anyway.

So no, that's not convincing at all to me.

And when I said "in that sense", I was directly responding to your last post where you stated the wagon doesn't make him town. The entire point was that it doesn't make him scum either.

[Ankamius]

I care less about the first point since you're more likely to flip scum. The next two is information about the cop shenanigans, which lynching you will also start to unravel. The last one is basically the same if you're lynched anyway.

So no, that's not convincing at all to me.

And when I said "in that sense", I was directly responding to your last post where you stated the wagon doesn't make him town. The entire point was that it doesn't make him scum either.

Explain by what logic I'm more likely to flip scum than shos?

Your latter point is nonsense since nobody argued it made him scum. You argued you're not voting him because of it, as if it made him town, which is flawed.

The shos wagon feels like there's a lot of scum on that wagon.
Your play hasn't felt town all game.
You are the biggest advocate of a shos wagon.

That's a lot of it right there.

And no, your conclusion in the last sentence is false. Me not wanting to vote someone because their wagon is scummy in a multiball situation doesn't make them town; it means that I think it's more likely that we'll hit scum on the wagon than the wagonee itself.

[Ankamius]

What about my play hasn't felt town exactly?

I searched through the only trail I left since there's no way in hell I'm reading through 4 full pages. Just in those 4 pages, you feel like you're trying to force the shos wagon to win out over TF's, but it doesn't feel like you really care. I got the feeling you were trying to maintain the status quo.

I remember you-town being thick in the action, but also trying to actively solve the game and have fluid reads. You scared me in touhou and it felt like you were getting closer to trapping me when you engaged me while I never really knew exactly what you were thinking.

In this game, I don't feel the same level of conviction from you. Your posts have a hollow feeling towards them that I don't like. Even in your engagements on me this game, it feels a lot more one-dimensional.

It's less about actual actions and more how you went about things that bugs me.

[Ankamius]

lmao

[Ankamius]

Can someone repost the list of actions that we were trying to resolve yesterday? I know one exists but I don't remember who made it nor the general page number.

[Ankamius]

19 Town
2 Communists (Zar, ???)
2 Dictators (Jackel98, Prohawk)
2 Fascists (Toon Fighter, Wisdom)
2 Hippies (Fluminator, Klingoncelt)

i think this is the setup, taking into account the discussed factions, prohawk's behavior end of day 2, and decreasing number of nightkills

so 19 town to 8 scum, with 4 scumkills per night

reasonable?

I want to check something before we go any further with this.

[Ankamius]

^Checked.

I have to think.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Impossibear.

They're not town.

Explain.

[Ankamius]

Pirate Ika: Did you lose a bulletproof shot on N1?

[Ankamius]

Pirate Ika: Did you lose a bulletproof shot on N1?

Scratch this.

Alivechihiro's ISO didn't give me a whole lot then.

[Ankamius]

^Checked.

I have to think.

If you want to contend that setup, then you need to figure out Dictator kill flavor, because if there are no more dictator then there flavor can;t have been used last night.

That's what I'm trying to figure out, although my main issue is the Hippie kills. I'm starting to wonder if they never got a kill off after N1.

[Ankamius]

I already know it's possible just by the fact that Pirate Ika claimed to have been shot night 2.

[Ankamius]

The fact that there's an extra kill flavor N1 bugs me too. I wonder if there's a kill out there that has the ability to choose their kill flavor.

[Ankamius]

Is there anything on Awesome other than a guilty? I'm starting to wonder if they really

are

some kind of SK role that had a different kill flavor N1. The main issue that's making me doubt this is that they would've had to gambit the kill attempt on shos without knowing there was a doctor in the neighborhood.

Is either head in that slot known for gambiting?

[Ankamius]

Having a different kill flavor N1 could mean they chose a different one and then chose stabbed every night after to be consistent with their claim.

I agree it's stretchy, but there's still two kill flavors night one that never showed up again. With Awesome's shot being the only one that didn't show up that same night, it's likely that they're either the cause of one or we have a lot of weird shit going on that no one knows about.

[Ankamius]

Yeah, I jumped the gun with that question. It would've been weird if you had with the N1 kill flavors.

[Ankamius]

I'm a universal miller.

[Ankamius]

My role name just says miller, but I'm specifically told in my role PM that I appear guilty to all cops.

[Ankamius]

Ankamius - That makes no literal sense whatsoever. Go reread how day two started and then get back to me. short version: we tried to kill shos night one, but we were jailkept by prohawk, which is why it didn't happen. You'd have to jump through a lot of hoops, including me having esp, to twist me into being anything other than what I am.

Okay, this solves it.

I'm completely stumped on what happened N1 then.

[Ankamius]

I sent my night action in late last night, and it wasn't accepted My bad, sorry town.

Hold up, I forgot you tracked klingoncelt to nobody.

That means the hippies are even more likely to have been the missing kills since I'm willing to bet the doctor was protecting her the whole time.

Although now that I think about it, klingon did have the three-man team shit going on.

ffs I think we need more scumflips before this starts making sense.

[Ankamius]

PV help

[Ankamius]

alivechiro is dead

[Ankamius]

What's the whole list of your results?

[Ankamius]

I sent my night action in late last night, and it wasn't accepted My bad, sorry town.

Hold up, I forgot you tracked klingoncelt to nobody.

Or, more likely, I was roleblocked. Mastin still hasn't clarified that.

Did you track klingoncelt to nobody or got no result?

[Ankamius]

That's a bad question. You should ask how many there are in the setup or still alive to remove ambiguity.

[Ankamius]

Hi. Pirate Ika is town, so stop with that discussion. Thanks.

[Ankamius]

Mollie what have you found from your notes so far?

[Ankamius]

Hi.

Titus is not SK. Why are we even bringing this up?
Pirate Ika is still town.
Last time I remembered a read on guile, it was moderately strong town. I'd need some convincing on him.
Muffin is town.

Anyone else?

[Ankamius]

I forgot PeregrineV. He's very town too.

If everyone else died, we'd have a maximum of one scum. I'd bet on that.

[Ankamius]

That might have to wait until I get home, since I'm short on time and can't get the player list to show without losing my post.

I can say that another round of flips would do a lot to clarify things, though.

[Ankamius]

If we remove FIN3 (less likely than the rest), then the rest is my best guess for the scumpool. That should be five people.

I'm not as sure about Awesome anymore either.

[Ankamius]

1. theelkspeaks

2. Pirate Ika (pirate mollie+ika)

3. Nobody Special
4. Impossibear (EspeciallyTheLies+Jingle)

5. Muffin

6. Frightened inmate number3

7. Ankamius

8. Titus

I'm fully okay with the Impossibear lynch, but I want to make sure I'm not missing anything before we go through with this. Everyone not in green above is the scumpool I'm working with for now, but I'll have to look again sometime after I get home.

[Ankamius]

Stabbed is missing in the kills, so unless the extra kill flavor is theirs, there's 4 anyway.

I'll continue this conversation later. I literally have to leave a few minutes ago.

[Ankamius]

I'm going to make a bigger post in a bit, but I want to make this known now so this doesn't cause any more issues:

Stop speculating about the serial killer. No SK exists in this setup.

I will fully explain shortly, but cease and desist until I do.

[Ankamius]

I haven't fullclaimed on purpose up until now, but I'm an X-Shot bulletproof miller vigilante. I specifically white knighted Awesome for two reasons: Both because the claim looked genuine based on the power comparison between our roles and because even if that slot was a serial killer, their goal would be to scumhunt and sabotage scum more than town, so there was more reason to make sure they stayed alive than die. This is also why I didn't shoot them before last night. This is also why I was so adamant about stopping people from suspecting people as the SK on day 4.

Night 1: I killed Jackel98 because he was a significant enough scumread to be a good shot target, yet also a high enough lynch possibility that it would've given town the information from his flip without having to use up a lynch in the attempt. I didn't kill KlingonCelt because I wanted to keep my identity hidden for the time being. Scum would've been likely to piece together whoever was the source of the kill once more of the setup was known and more shots had been fired from this slot.

Night 2: I killed Fluminator because he was pretty obviously scum. I remember thinking it wasn't very likely he was going to be crosskilled.

Night 3: I killed alivechihiro because I remembered not having any read on that slot and seeing multiple people have the same type of thoughts about him. At this point, day play was starting to come together and be likely to solve the game for most of the active participants, so I was trying to choose shots among the outliers.

Night 4: I decided to kill Awesome last night for two reasons: First, because I knew it was very likely that we would be massclaiming today and it would've been a huge distraction to have the speculation about one of us having to be the serial killer, so removing the nearly forced tunnelling on both sides would help town stay focused. Second, because with the amount of players rapidly dwindling and still having several kills a night, it was getting dangerously close to the time where that slot being alive would've been far too dangerous for a lynch if the slot really was a serial killer.

I have not lost a single shot of my bulletproof ability since the game started.

[Ankamius]

And before anyone asks, I will shoot based on town consensus from here on out.

[Ankamius]

I'm going to make a bigger post in a bit, but I want to make this known now so this doesn't cause any more issues:

Stop speculating about the serial killer. No SK exists in this setup.

I will fully explain shortly, but cease and desist until I do.

So u think commies exist then.

I don't believe so. I might have to analyze the kills again, but I think the chances of a full communist team is pretty low at this point.

[Ankamius]

What do you think of PI's bulletproof claim?

By itself? Inconclusive. I think the slot itself is town.

[Ankamius]

Lynched:
Toon Fighter,

Fascist

Godfather

, Lynched Day One.
ProHawk,

Dictator

Jailkeeper

, Lynched Day Two.
shos,

Town

Cop

, Lynched Day Three.
BlizZard,

Fascist

Sane Cop

, Lynched Day Four.


Shot: (Dictator/Communist/?)
ArcAngel9,

Town

Hippie Cop

, shot night one.
DrippingGoofBall,

Town

White Mage

, shot night two.
Klingoncelt,

Hippie

Fruit Vendor

, shot night three.
guille2015,

Town

Macho Doctor

, shot night four.


Killed: (Vigilante)
Jackel98,

Dictator

Rolecop

, killed night one.
Fluminator,

Hippie

Doctor

, stabbed and killed night two.
alivechihiro,

Town

Watcher

, killed night three.
Awesome,

Town

Compulsive SK-Miller Vigilante

, killed night four.


Stabbed: (Vigilante)
Fluminator,

Hippie

Doctor

, stabbed and killed night two.
Wisdom,

Fascist

Ninja

, stabbed night three.


Silenced: (Fascist?)
farside22,

Town

Bodyguard

, silenced night one.
EddieFenix,

Town

Fascist Cop

, silenced night two.
Bulbazak,

Town

Doctor

, silenced night three.


Outliers:
Pine,

Town

Communist Miller

, beaten to a bloody pulp night one.
Alchemist21,

Vanilla Townie

, shredded into fertilizer night one.
PeregrineV,

Town

Gunsmith

, sliced in half night four.

[Ankamius]

If there's someone alive who hasn't claimed one of the last two night 1 kills yet, they really really should. That's the primary thing that I'm concerned about.

Otherwise, it's definitely possible that there isn't a communist team in this setup if a source of the outlier kills is the hippies.

[Ankamius]

Oh okay, I missed that Impossibear claimed Hippie.

[Ankamius]

I already told you why I didn't shoot Awesome. Is there a problem with that reasoning?

[Ankamius]

There is absolutely no way I'm believing three vig claims.

One of the vigs would have shot awesome. The only other explanation is them being dumb as shit.

Me.

Yes. The fact that there being three vigs is really stupid. On the off chance that you're not full of shit, that many town killing roles just adds to the swingy as hell nature of the game.

Considering that your claim means you're almost certainly solo scum, you don't live through 3p LYLO. Period. You cannot be allowed to live that long.

Go ahead and rationalize it the way you want, but I'm town and I'll accept whatever wins us the game.

[Ankamius]

If that is the case, then where did the fifth kill last night go?

PEdit: @mollie/ika

[Ankamius]

I have not lost a single shot of my bulletproof ability since the game started.

[Ankamius]

however i want everyone to specualte something for me:

dictator has one member left, who is it and why?
presume commies is a red hearing and they are nothing more then jsut a wifom thing
presume we did take a nk last night, who would be most likely to be the person to do it?

(hint: theres an answer to this but i want to talk to mollie a bit before we decide on anything definitive)

Spoiler:

1. theelkspeaks

2. Pirate Ika (pirate mollie+ika)

3. Nobody Special
4. Impossibear (EspeciallyTheLies+Jingle)
5. Muffin
6. Frightened inmate number3
7. Ankamius
8. Titus

Impossibear, FIN3 and I are impossible because of claimed kill flavors.
Nobody Special is extraordinarily unlikely because of multiple cop innocents.

That leaves theelkspeaks, Muffin, and Titus.

Based on reads from there, theelkspeaks is the most likely since I still have a townread on the other two.

PEdit: roleblock makes it a lot more likely, yes.

PEdit2: Pirate Ika claimed to be shot on night 3 I believe. Either that or night 2.

[Ankamius]

let's direct kills, ank.

we lynch bear today.

you shoot elk.

i test your bp.

if game is not over, lynch one of us.

i think this beats the game.

I don't see how town loses with this regardless of what elk does unless we're somehow wrong about Muffin or Titus. I'm okay with going through with this.

[Ankamius]

Lylo with vig backup is impossible.

[Ankamius]

Hold me to posting later today. I'm not at work for too long today.

[Ankamius]

I think the objectively proper play is to lynch Fin3. If he's town, we still shoot according to his plan. Lynch bear tomorrow.
so it would look like

Fin3 lynched today --- Commie Flip
Ank shoots ika and Bear shoots Muffin
Lynch Bear or thelk
Ank shoots the other
gg town win

What if the scum decide to snipe town?

Fin3 lynched and flips town

Ank shoots theelk
Bear shoots Ank (in case of serial killer)
Dictator has shot

5 alive starting tomorrow
Lynch Bear
Ank shoots if game is not over

Town wins

If this really is the case, it works about as well as can be expected. Assuming that elk and Bear both shoot town, then it doesn't matter what happens D6 as long as I'm not lynched. If there's one kill other than mine, then no lynch wins town the game 100%.

[Ankamius]

Titus, your whole plan doesn't take into account ika having BP shots left.

[Ankamius]

I know; I only have about 10 minutes before I have to leave for owrk, though. I'll most likely be around on my breaks, but browsing on my tablet isn't very good for rereading stuff. If I can't make a decision by the time I'm off, then I'll do it tonight or early tomorrow.

The main issue is that you and FIN3 look more like you're talking circles around each other rather than to each other, so piecing everything together is a headache.

[Ankamius]

Okay, I'm here. I think I've made my choice, but let me make sure.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: ImpossibleBear

Four reasons:

1. In the end, I can't trust a confirmed scum roleblocker not to try to fuck with us regardless of whether there are communists or not. From what it looks like from his posting today (assuming Jingle's the only presence right now), the slot pretty much has accepted defeat; their last hurrah is to get any scum faction to win over us. Even if we make a failsafe against communists, what I see being most likely to happen is impossibear specifically stopping us from being able to eliminate the anti-town enough for town to win. This wouldn't be much of an issue with the communist team being a red herring, but it would mean that we probably won't win anyway if they are.

2. If there really is only 1 dictator and 1 hippie left, this is a cleaner and faster way to end the game.

Communists earned the win if they exist, but otherwise town gets a clean win with this path. I also can't let confirmed scum or obvscum pull out a win via shenanigans. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ankamius]

That timing though.

[Ankamius]

I know, it just feels ridiculously anti-climactic to have him be a non-factor for the whole game, then suddenly come in less than an hour after I decide which way I'm going with to go the same way.

[Ankamius]

Question for you then:

If I'm the source of Dictator's kills, then where does the extra kill N1 come from?

[Ankamius]

Is there any particular reason we shouldn't no lynch here?

[Ankamius]

I'm thinking Pirate Ika is the third dictator for the moment, but I want to run a few things before I put this down as anything solid.

PEdit: no.

[Ankamius]

FIN3 shot elk.

[Ankamius]

Is there any particular reason we shouldn't no lynch here?

thanks for claiming who you nked!

Why would I have to claim? The flavor claims it for me.

[Ankamius]

"theelkspeaks, Town Tracker, shot and

killed

N5."

[Ankamius]

Pirate Ika, there's two issues with elk clearing you:

1. elk tracked you on night 4, where you claimed bulletproof shot.
2. Night 3, according to FIN3's chart, Dictator's kill is fully unaccounted for. This makes nokill likely. What stops nokill from working on night 4?

[Ankamius]

Pirate Ika, there's two issues with elk clearing you:

1. elk tracked you on night 4, where you claimed bulletproof shot.
2. Night 3, according to FIN3's chart, Dictator's kill is fully unaccounted for. This makes nokill likely. What stops nokill from working on night 4?

bp does not mean immune to track results you dummy

That doesn't change my point. What if you nokilled?

[Ankamius]

Titus what are all your actions this game?

[Ankamius]

Pirate Ika, there's two issues with elk clearing you:

1. elk tracked you on night 4, where you claimed bulletproof shot.
2. Night 3, according to FIN3's chart, Dictator's kill is fully unaccounted for. This makes nokill likely. What stops nokill from working on night 4?

bp does not mean immune to track results you dummy

That doesn't change my point. What if you nokilled?

why the fuck would we fucking no kill? explain that fuckign shit to us. or better yet instead of putting stupid accusation backthem up with a god damn fucing vote

What happened night 3 if the answer isn't nokill?

[Ankamius]

the game is still winnable but not by much and only if muffin and ns don't get derpy

It's impossible for town to lose this game, but the only snag is town has to trust that I'm town to go with that plan. Even without going that route, we have very good chances.

The main thing working for us is that scum HAS to shoot me tonight or they can't win at all. This is a huge advantage.

[Ankamius]

4) sk ank ppushes no-lynch

I didn't take NS being conftown into account. With that taken into account, lynching today wins town the game.

[Ankamius]

The 100% win plan requires lynching you, though.

[Ankamius]

DICTATOR SHOT FIN3, NOT ELK

FIN3 AND I BOTH SHOT ELK

[Ankamius]

The 100% win plan requires lynching you, though.

-.-

explain to me how our fucking town lynch solves anything?

Lynch you
I shoot between (Titus/Muffin). Dictator is forced to shoot my bulletproof or they lose.
No lynch tomorrow
I shoot the other between (Titus/Muffin). It doesn't matter who they shoot.
One town survives regardless.

[Ankamius]

BTW it doesn't matter at all who Dictator shoots tonight if we lynch you, it doesn't change the fact that they have 0% chance of winning.

[Ankamius]

I know. I stated that when I first brought the idea up.

[Ankamius]

It doesn't matter what dictator does tonight if we lynch Pirate Ika. Unless it's NS, they just die the following night.

[Ankamius]

Also, it doesn't actually matter who we lynch if Pirate Ika is out of bulletproof shots.

[Ankamius]

ANK THE ENTIRE PLAN RELIES ON YOU NOT BEING AN SK RIGHT NOW AND WE DON'T TRUST THAT

YOU UNDERSTAND YOUR PLAN LEADS TO AN SK WIN?

I AM AWARE OF THIS PROBLEM AND I STATED IT AT LEAST 2-3 TIMES ALREADY.

THANKS.

[Ankamius]

Humor me, PI.

If we go with your plan, why shouldn't I shoot you tonight?

[Ankamius]

The biggest issue I have this game is that your bulletproof amount is still unclaimed.

Since it legitimately doesn't matter if it's known or not in my case, I only have one charge on my vest.

[Ankamius]

I'm leaving for work now and I will be back tonight.

If I come back to it being night 6

, then I'm shooting Pirate Ika if the bulletproof shot amount isn't claimed, and one of Titus/Muffin if it is.

[Ankamius]

ika wants to lynch ank cos he thinks he is sk

Is this literally the only reason?

[Ankamius]

So here's the thing:

THE LAST SCUM CANNOT WIN AS LONG AS I AM IN THE GAME.

This is the single most important fact that exists right now. Lynching me is the most anti-town fucking thing you can do right now.

If we lynch one of PI/Muffin/Titus, then I shoot another and we end up in 3p MyLo at worst. I can't shoot down NS as SK because then it comes down to a nolynch situation where both scum have to shoot each other to have any chance of winning (due to losing my bulletproof the night before), which results in a town win. Vig-me wouldn't even think of it anyway, so rule that out. No killing makes no sense as either alignment since that gives scum a free shot to eliminate my bulletproof, so that's out.

So I'm forced to shoot another from that three-person pool. Worst case scenario, it's me, the last scum, and a town left. No lynch wins town the game here, too.

The only possible snag is dictator not shooting me, which makes no sense at all because then another in the triad gets eliminated and I still have my bulletproof vest; the scum can't win there because the last member of the triad is objectively the best lynch.

It's completely boggling my mind that people are willing to give CONFIRMED scum a way out to get rid of a POTENTIAL scum. It makes no sense whatsoever.

[Ankamius]

pedit: seeing how you also want to lynch me cus we are BP? yes. IM trying to set up a gamestate where if 2 scums exist they cant win

I'm specifically suggesting you because your bulletproof is still unclaimed and it's the only thing that still screws with the analysis.

[Ankamius]

muffin can be feel to correct me as well.

if you want to prove your townness then you would be IMO arguing titus is final scum and not us. call it whatever you like but we have been puting in 150% into this gaem and im not going to let it go to waste

Considering how much evidence there is that I'm not an SK and I have a method that guarantees town a win, my reads are little more than efficiency at this point.

[Ankamius]

Hold on, I have a theory.

[Ankamius]

ank what it the full claim of your role and a paraphrased description of it?

Look, me and mollie will fight you to the bitter end on our lynch, if you want to convince us you /again/ should be arguing titus is scum and not us.

even if we are scum and you are scum and we shoot each other its same end results regardless.

You are a town one-shot-bulletproof miller-vigilante

I can target someone every night. They get rekt if it goes through. I also have a bulletproof vest valid for one kill attempt. If I get hit by a kill, then I'll survive for the first and only time. Because of this, I show the guilty result to every cop.

The rest after that is standard stuff that's probably copy pasted through all the PMs.

[Ankamius]

My theory is that all the roles come in 9 sets of 3s, which makes sense with 3 of them being scumteams and the other 6 being town roles with a theme to them.

The problem is I get to the last 2 or so sets and it starts requiring a lot more stretching to make it work.

[Ankamius]

Just for shiggles, this is roughly where I got to. The last two are weird and don't fit very well, and guile probably works better in the doctor one than Farside, but eh.

Spoiler:

Fascists:
Toon Fighter,

Fascist

Godfather

, Lynched Day One.
Wisdom,

Fascist

Ninja

, stabbed night three.
BlizZard,

Fascist

Sane Cop

, Lynched Day Four.

Dictators:
Jackel98,

Dictator

Rolecop

, killed night one.
ProHawk,

Dictator

Jailkeeper

, Lynched Day Two.
?

Hippies:
Fluminator,

Hippie

Doctor

, stabbed and killed night two.
Klingoncelt,

Hippie

Fruit Vendor

, shot night three.
Impossibear,

Hippie

Roleblocker

, Lynched Day Five.

Weaker Cops:
EddieFenix,

Town

Fascist Cop

, silenced night two.
ArcAngel9,

Town

Hippie Cop

, shot night one.
PeregrineV,

Town

Gunsmith

, sliced in half night four.

Standard Investigative:
shos,

Town

Cop

, Lynched Day Three.
alivechihiro,

Town

Watcher

, killed night three.
theelkspeaks,

Town

Tracker

, shot and killed night five.

Doctor:
farside22,

Town

Bodyguard

, silenced night one.
Bulbazak,

Town

Doctor

, silenced night three.
DrippingGoofBall,

Town

White Mage

, shot night two.

Misleading(?):
Muffin, Miller
Pine,

Town

Communist Miller

, beaten to a bloody pulp night one.
Awesome,

Town

Compulsive SK-Miller Vigilante

, killed night four.

?:
Alchemist21,

Vanilla Townie

, shredded into fertilizer night one.
Nobody Special, Vanilla Townie
?





guille2015,

Town

Macho Doctor

, shot night four.
Frightened inmate number3,

Town

Vigilante

, pulverized night five.
Ankamius, Town one-shot-bulletproof miller-vigilante
Pirate Ika, X-shot bulletproof
Titus, Insane cop

[Ankamius]

He was going by doubles, which is wrong by definition since this was a 27-player game unless it only applied to town.

[Ankamius]

I super defended Awesome when he claimed vig and never turned on him until I shot him on N4 (which a confirmed vig even stated he considered doing for the exact same reasons), then claimed the kill soon into the next day when it was premature for a massclaim.
I never once pushed for FIN3 to die after he claimed vig or really showed any suspicion of him at all.
I tried to shut down SK-hunting as much as possible when there was virtually no suspicion of it onto my slot at all, much more likely than not getting that noticed if SK-hunting starts being a huge thing that people are trying to figure out. I outright claimed vig to remove people's suspicions of other slots for that reasoning.
Two of my shots were on slots that would've been suboptimal shots for an SK. Jackel98 was a significant scumread for quite a few people and had a very limited shelf life, while alivechihiro was a non-entity that would've been a big source of paranoia if it had gotten to around this point. You can make a case on the Fluminator shot (biggest scumread by me throughout D2 and not many other people were IIRC) and the Awesome kill is explained above.

I can't see how that fits an SK thought process.

[Ankamius]

I am starting to come around to ika's plan. Ank seems desperate not to be lynched. I never really considered it but...his attitude today is off.

The ika suspicion, although plausible, seems out of left world.

The situation has completely changed from every other day that came before this. I was completely fine with dying if it would stop the SK WIFOM and give town better chances, but now it's literally scum's best interests to get rid of me ASAP. It relieves a ton of pressure from them. That's the entire reason I'm being self-preservative now.

[Ankamius]

1. Keeping an un-CCed vig with an extra kill floating around will make people jump towards SK eventually, just with the added benefit of an extra kill that can go my way.
2. Because an extra kill is bad for me?
3. A game just ended where a slot was widely suspected of being SK for what, 5-6 day phases? The real SKs rode it out until people started realizing that they weren't the SK. You were scum in that game and saw the start of this. Your logic is really bad because having other slots be suspected of the SK ties up town lynches that would otherwise be on me.

[Ankamius]

Hey guys, remember this?

1. theelkspeaks

2. Pirate Ika (pirate mollie+ika)

3. Nobody Special
4. Impossibear (EspeciallyTheLies+Jingle)

5. Muffin

6. Frightened inmate number3

7. Ankamius

8. Titus

I'm fully okay with the Impossibear lynch, but I want to make sure I'm not missing anything before we go through with this. Everyone not in green above is the scumpool I'm working with for now, but I'll have to look again sometime after I get home.

This is my reads list from the start of day 5. Look at which slots are left and think about why I'm going after a townread today.

[Ankamius]

NS is confirmed town by virtue of being confirmed... how many times now?

Unless he's been doing shenanigans every night, he's straight up town. That means one of my town reads was wrong.

[Ankamius]

3 is exactly why you kept Awesome alive. Extra kills are good for Sks if not targeting them.

Except Awesome died the night after it started?

[Ankamius]

ank have you looks at muffins chart? if you really want o show it show us how your idea/chart is better then his atm. cus really the plan falls short.

The only thing making lynching me viable in that situation is the possibility of extra bulletproof shots. Town still wins in every situation where that is not the case if we lynch someone who isn't me or NS (due to me+scum having to shoot each other and both dying after nolynch), while NS being shot with me being lynched is the only situation that makes any sense. Literally the only thing that changes is losing SK WIFOM, but otherwise you lose every single slot that can't possibly be the last scum.

[Ankamius]

NS is confirmed town by virtue of being confirmed... how many times now?

Unless he's been doing shenanigans every night, he's straight up town. That means one of my town reads was wrong.

and again i bring up a bus driver theory yet you all fucking ignore it....

am i like the only one who is trying to read him outside of the fucking cop clears?

Did we ever figure out the missing N3 nokill?

[Ankamius]

Dictators: Offensive scumteam
Fascists: Defensive scumteam
Hippies: Shenanigans scumteam

How does that look?

[Ankamius]

That doesn't really fit with Titus-scum, but Titus-scum is making more and more sense the more I think about it. I might have to cross-reference with earlier days, but it makes a lot of sense with her huge attempt to try to keep impossibear alive yesterday and her velocity today is blegh, especially when she stated earlier that lynching me benefits dictator then immediately after says that we're lynching me if anyone today.

PEdit: Oh hey that answers that question nicely.

Offensive: Rolecop finds out if someone is worth killing or blocking, jailkeeper keeps strong roles down and rolecop gives more context to who is good to kill.
Defensive: All three of the roles are designed to blend in and look town. Godfather beats cops, Ninja beats the watcher/tracker, Sane Cop just looks more town
Shenanigans: Different kill flavors per person, doctor so that they're more likely to stay alive and cause more chaos with the flavor, fruit vendor as a 'confirmable' role, roleblocker to cause actions to fail

[Ankamius]

3 is exactly why you kept Awesome alive. Extra kills are good for Sks if not targeting them.

Except Awesome died the night after it started?

I do not know what is means here.

Ank, can you create a scenario where, if we lynch anyone but you where town retains control? If we don't lynch you, we have to nl every day thereafter and hope for crosskills. That's what my math shows.

I don't see any option other than no lynch or lynch Ank.

I still want to lynch ika here but I think for the health of the game, that has to be pushed off.

I think this is a false question, because while town no longer has control in the game in that situation, scum have no control whatsoever either. If we go the lynch-me route, then we get into a standard LyLo situation where scum is given breathing room and a significantly higher chance to win.

In no other situation does scum have a choice in what they do. Assuming I'm SK: I have a 50% chance of just losing instantly if one of the triad is lynched and I shoot among the triad, and the only way I win otherwise (AKA shooting NS) is if I lied about my bulletproof shots. Crosskill is a loss for me in that situation. It doesn't matter who I kill if we no lynch, the result is exactly the same.

Scum is forced to either remove my bulletproof if I'm alive or kill NS if I'm dead. That doesn't change at all.

Literally the only case where scum has any breathing room whatsoever is if they're allowed to not have to shoot me fruitlessly.

[Ankamius]

I don't see how your mistake on who Fin3 shot is indicative of you not shooting him.

I haven't seen much dissonance. Only the whole restraining each other and constant mentions of communicating out of thread.

You should talk yo ika and take his advice.

Good night.

My issue is that scum has to lynched me today to have any shot at winning. Muffin is kinda passively supporting it, but Titus is pushing that absurdly hard.

NS doesn't even have that on his radar AFAIK (def not in the spotlight if it is) and Ika is town for obv

[Ankamius]

ious reasons.

[Ankamius]

Pretty much the exact opposite reason that I'm scumreading Titus right now; they're both against the idea of lynching me today and trying to shut down the biggest supporter of that plan. In no universe does scum do that in this situation.

[Ankamius]

Pretty much the exact opposite reason that I'm scumreading Titus right now; they're both against the idea of lynching me today and trying to shut down the biggest supporter of that plan. In no universe does scum do that in this situation.

Wrong. Dictator wants to be townread by you. If they feel confident of that, then there is zero need to lynch you.

Irrelevant. Completely and utterly irrelevant.

I already went into why lynching a player that isn't me nets scum a guaranteed loss. I went into why no lynching nets scum a guaranteed loss. The fact that you're trying to justify lynching me today by saying that dictator has a good chance of winning otherwise is pretty transparently scum. That's objectively false and there's no way you can argue that.

[Ankamius]

Pirate Ika your logic isn't entirely sound. I'm not necessarily fucked as SK since if we hit a LyLo situation where there's a scum, a town, and me, the town has to side with me to have any chance of winning. Siding against me in that situation only guarantees town a loss.

[Ankamius]

Why are we talking about this?

[Ankamius]

Pirate Ika: I see where you're coming from.

I'm willing to vote for Titus whenever we're ready. Since I'm town, there's no situation whatsoever where town loses with any lynch that isn't me or NS, so I'm willing to go through with this.

Titus being nearly obvscum is just icing.

[Ankamius]

Actually, I want to test something:

Titus: who is scum and why?

[Ankamius]

I have a distinct reason for asking this and I want a concrete answer.

[Ankamius]

Titus what are your reads on ika and pirate mollie separately?

[Ankamius]

Caution! Titus is at L-1!

6-3

:

Titus -2 (Nobody Special, Pirate Ika)

Ankamius - 1 (Titus)

At deadline, Ankamius will be lynched.

oh

[Ankamius]

Titus what are your reads on ika and pirate mollie separately?

As of last nightfall, I was scumreading ika and townreading mollie.

That has pretty much reversed. Ika's reasoning appears to be pretty sound while mollie is just making shit up. The fact mollie shut ika up after he gave us the solution to winning is pretty indicative to me. It allows them to claim credit for having the answer that ensures the SK and Dictator cannot win. Yet, mollie can come on and undo it entirely.

Also, pirates ride on boats take them over and force them to go in other directions.

Here's my problem:

You're propositioning that scum wants to buddy me and make me less likely to kill them later on over others that are in the kill pool, and you single out Pirate Ika as the most likely contributor to this angle. You're scumreading mollie and townreading ika. I've went into why not lynching me today means scum can't win; the dominant reason why this is even possible is because NS is considered cleared.

Mollie is trying to keep NS in that status and is even trying to lower the scope of this on top of that. Ika's the half of the slot that is paranoid of NS and not trying as much to PoE the scumlist down.

Your entire justification for why you're not scum for trying to lynch me so hard by saying that scum would want to buddy me and keep me alive instead of lynching me, yet your thought process makes no sense when you try to add this motivation to your suspicions. It's bogus.

[Ankamius]

Titus what are your reads on ika and pirate mollie separately?

As of last nightfall, I was scumreading ika and townreading mollie.

That has pretty much reversed. Ika's reasoning appears to be pretty sound while mollie is just making shit up. The fact mollie shut ika up after he gave us the solution to winning is pretty indicative to me. It allows them to claim credit for having the answer that ensures the SK and Dictator cannot win. Yet, mollie can come on and undo it entirely.

Also, pirates ride on boats take them over and force them to go in other directions.

Here's my problem:

You're propositioning that scum wants to buddy me and make me less likely to kill them later on over others that are in the kill pool, and you single out Pirate Ika as the most likely contributor to this angle. You're scumreading mollie and townreading ika. I've went into why not lynching me today means scum can't win; the dominant reason why this is even possible is because NS is considered cleared.

Mollie is trying to keep NS in that status and is even trying to lower the scope of this on top of that. Ika's the half of the slot that is paranoid of NS and not trying as much to PoE the scumlist down.

Your entire justification for why you're not scum for trying to lynch me so hard by saying that scum would want to buddy me and keep me alive instead of lynching me, yet your thought process makes no sense when you try to add this motivation to your suspicions. It's bogus.

You are disagreeing with me and falling into disagreement is scummy trap.

We mislynch me. You shoot wrong. Scum shoots you.

3 alive. Either you as possible SK wins, Dictator wins or cross shoot. You guess wrong, we lose.

Or we lynch you. Then the choice is in everyone's hands but the town's fucking boned anyway because I am town.

You're missing the part where in that situation, town has to work with me regardless of my alignment because at that point, it's either having a chance to win the game or guaranteeing a loss.

[Ankamius]

Are you confident enough in your read to believe you would be able to lynch scum in 3p?

It's the same situation for you unless you're right about PI being scum since any scum worth their salt would want you in 3p lylo.

[Ankamius]

You two*

[Ankamius]

Are you catching up NS?