Mod Error Mafia [TM2015] - Game Over

[Cephrir]

I am a miller.

VOTE: LLD

One scum down.

[Cephrir]

Seems like a pointless exercise, but it's going to get talked about anyway, so I might as well save everyone some time.

I was a suicidal 2-shot reflexive doctor. Which means I can doc everyone who targets me on a given night twice, and also had the power to commit suicide. With any luck you all won't make me wish I still had that power.

[Cephrir]

At least we don't have to waste time talking about tokens.

[Cephrir]

There's very likely already a scumpost in this thread. And I'm not basing that on probability.

[Cephrir]

If ever in the history of man there has ever been a time mod meta would be ineffective, that time is right now.

[Cephrir]

Why did you bother quoting post 15 just to sass me?

[Cephrir]

Because all of you had awkward entrances.

[Cephrir]

Now answer the question.

[Cephrir]

Because all of you had awkward entrances.

elaborate?

also,

Anyone else intrigued by the score in post 5?

why ignore this?

Anyone know anything about the score?

I'll elaborate if I decide it's worth doing.

What's to ignore? What if I shouldn't be revealing whether or not it means anything to me?

I am a miller.

VOTE: LLD

One scum down.

Are you conditional

No. I do have non-standard wording.

[Cephrir]

Btw I am hated

Are you conditional?

Because all of you had awkward entrances.

Then why are you voting elsewhere?

Now answer the question.

Annoying throwaway comments that are purely made so others ask the writer what he means annoy me; just post the fucking elaboration immediately.

-No reason. Didn't ring right but I don't think any of you in particular are scum yet.

-Noted.

[Cephrir]

Oh actually legit proposing a who PL day one. He's gonna be a useless fuck and end up getting lynched anyways, let's get it over with today.

VOTE: who

Can you back this up?

[Cephrir]

if any, PL ns, he's hated and stuff.

Please put down the drugs and try this post again.

[Cephrir]

If any, policy lynch notscience, he has just claimed hated.

dat better?

No.

Why would that be a reason to policy lynch someone?

[Cephrir]

@Ceph.
Are you in a bad mood? You seem needlessly antagonistic compared to the baseline I am used to.

Heh.

[It's intentional.]

[Cephrir]

If any, policy lynch notscience, he has just claimed hated.

dat better?

No.

Why would that be a reason to policy lynch someone?

because a hated townie in lylo is autoloss?

Does the word conditional not mean anything to you?

Though if this is notscience's only condition then his question to me was bizarre.

[Cephrir]

Reck, you rolled scum this game eh?

shos, read the thread.

[Cephrir]

Reck, you rolled scum this game eh?

shos, read the thread.

I'm scum because I said I hope you're scum so I can lynch you? Tell me more

I'm not buying the attitude right now.

Cephrir, why are you so interested in learning the terms and "condition"s of people's roles?

See what I did there? I made a funny. That happpens when I get no sleep.

I only asked notscience that question because he asked it to me first. I really don't care.

[Cephrir]

I explained. I can't help you if you don't like the explanation.

[Cephrir]

And Cabd isn't bad at this game, so like, that's basically the most surface level reason I've ever seen

[Cephrir]

What explanation though? All you said was "his attitude" was off, but that came after your initial issue.

It came with an implicit "grr rawr I hate you ceph" that I think is exaggerated beyond his actual opinion of me

I didn't like the first post either, didn't have a reason I could articulate especially but what Iec said resonated

[Cephrir]

Well, it felt personal, and it's not like we've never interacted.

I see you just have poor taste though!

[Cephrir]

This game is slow.

[Cephrir]

You can shove the attitude ts, thanks

Especially while agreeing with me

[Cephrir]

LLD, I don't remember playing mafia with you before, but I expected different. How would you describe your play normally?

[Cephrir]

Yay LLD makes more sense now.

Yep.

Policy lynch on me for being fucking awful? Well actually I don't really blame you that much.
As scum I sometimes play well and sometimes play poorly. As town I think I've played well approximately once. Maybe twice.

I agree with claiming past roles, particularly given my previous role: 1-shot BP Miller (Aligned with mafia. Yes, miller aligned with mafia)

This just tells me that we shouldn't setup spec based on roles, which I would have advocated anyway.

I'm replacing out, I don't want to drag my team down.

Also I'm quitting this site and mafia in general after I finish my other ongoing games.

Actually nevermind that, not replacing out. Yet. (2nd part may or may not still be true, not sure)

...k.

This doesn't make sense. First off, he posted it so early in the game that there wasn't even anything else for him to try and avoid talking about. Second, something something starting a policy lynch is a null tell.

Driving the conversation towards theory/setup/speculation allows scum to not contribute anything to the game. I've hidden behind it several times as scum. It's not about what he was avoiding THERE, it's about the direction he was heading. We have now had several pages of people claiming roles and wondering AHHH WHERE ARE THE OLD ROLE CLAIMS and it's just silly.

Advocating a policy lynch is pretty bad, unless the player is truly horrendous -- IE, not Who. Additionally, if it was really that bad that Cabd doesn't like playing with him, his team had the option to swap.

You should have held on to this, if you're town. He made one post about it. If he continued to harp on setup spec for 10 pages, you might have had a case, but one post is one post. Did it look like he might continue to do more of it? Yeah, it sure did, but that didn't actually happen. It really is silly, though; we've learned exactly one thing and that's that the mod can be expected to try to fuck with our heads, but you should always expect good mods to fuck with your head anyway.

I didn't like you calling him "actually scum" without waiting to see if things would really play out that way. On its own, that one post is a pretty flimsy reason, and I don't think anyone should have strong beliefs based on it alone.

I'm constantly baffled by the idea of policy lynches, but I haven't noticed one alignment as more likely to advocate them, especially Day 1.

@Tier: You've been suspecting reck for a lot of the same reasons as me while calling me an idiot. I don't know why you're jumping down everyone's throats and getting pissy at everyone on page 5, last time I played with you you were pretty calm and not an ass for no reason.

[Cephrir]

Alright, fuck this. Let's do something.

Cephrir, as of right now who should we lynch today?

Reck, same question. Iec, same question.

Reck.

I'd also like Copper to answer this question.

[Cephrir]

Oh my vote is still in RVS

Vote Reck

[Cephrir]

Why?

[Cephrir]

Partially yeah (the attack on cabd being weak as shit, primarily)

[Cephrir]

You implied that your vote was serious.

I interpret this as meaning you have a reason.

Are you just giving me the run-around in the hopes of getting me pissed off, or what?

Why are your opinions both elusive and shitty?

[Cephrir]

I can see you're going to be more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

[Cephrir]

My team is currently split on Ceph - one teamate thinks ceph is probably town because he's active and wants to play and would be drained from having a scum role, but another teamate says that Ceph prefers scum roles.

I don't want to get into extended conversations about my meta but I should get this out of the way at some point.

It is true that I prefer scum roles in general, but I have rolled it a lot lately. In fact, I put tokens on town here. Ordinarily I can reliably be lynched if I look town and you'll get a high success rate, because being scum thrills me and makes me want to do well. However, I can energize myself for town games by channeling a certain mindset, which is what I'm doing. If you're interested in doing meta on me this game, you'll want to look at my games playing under this persona -- this one and this one -- hence the avatar change.

[Cephrir]

The one with this avatar, naturally.

VOTE: shos

As a wise man once said, why not?

[Cephrir]

It's early D1.

This is what I wanted you to say all along. I'm fine with you suspecting him, but didn't believe in the level of certainty you had.

[Cephrir]

notscience, any commentary relevant to the actual game events?

[Cephrir]

What's the pro-town benefit of setup speculation discussion? It's not even current setup spec -- it's setup spec from a completely unrelated game. It is not productive, it's anti-productive. It's a distraction. I don't particularly give a shit about meta or anything, so that piece of the argument falls flat for me. For me, analyzing that within the context of this game alone, it's sketchy.

At least you can admit your bias.

You don't know if there is a correlation between the roles of the prior setup and the new ones, from the roles you all said you received I suspect there is one so the discussion is not useless, there are other ways where discussion of past roles can be useful as well.

This game is pretty high-profile and run by smart people. There's absolutely no way they would allow setup spec based on the previous game to be useful for town here -- that would be terrible modding. I expect there is exactly the same amount of correlation you would see between any two Magua games. So unless you normally do buckets of mod meta, we can stop anytime.

I could make the same argument for RVS you just mad for Cabd proposing that discussion, it's not productive because all of us here know how it goes, it's anti-productive, it's a distraction, it's scum indicative that you RVS voted ... (if you space the logical jumps from A to D by putting in B and C to make it look reasonable it still is absurd when you connect the dots).

I don't think it's the same at all. There are legitimate reasons for RVS to exist. If we wanted to talk about the setup instead of doing RVS, I guess that would be fine, but if we're talking in addition to, we quickly end up chasing our tails.

[Cephrir]

shos is different because he's being a smarmy coy asshole about his read. He's doing the "I have a read, you wanna know what it is? Too bad!" thing that reminds me of elementary school bus rides.

Why are you still voting for T-Bone if you have an inkling elsewhere? Did you just miss the time when there was a little momentum towards Reck, because otherwise that would've been a great time to apply pressure.

[Cephrir]

This game is pretty high-profile and run by smart people. There's absolutely no way they would allow setup spec based on the previous game to be useful for town here -- that would be terrible modding. I expect there is exactly the same amount of correlation you would see between any two Magua games. So unless you normally do buckets of mod meta, we can stop anytime.

No matter how smart Magua is he doesn't live in a vacuum, he had 1 day to make a new setup and he had the roles from his previous game fresh in mind, so I guarantee he is going to re-use some ideas.

He had a few days as well as potentially a team of helpers.

[Cephrir]

Because T-Bone hasn't done anything to make me change my vote and nobody else has passed the threshold to where I think a vote on them would be beneficial, I don't appreciate questions on how I choose to play, unless you want to make them alignment relevant?

Just trying to have an interaction, didn't really care what about, evidently that didn't work.

[Cephrir]

minus for votes cast, plus for votes received?

Looks it.

Almost makes me want to vote 48 more times to see what happens.

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

It's early D1.

This is what I wanted you to say all along. I'm fine with you suspecting him, but didn't believe in the level of certainty you had.

Do you think every person who does something early on D1 should post a disclaimer saying NOTE THIS IS EARLY D1 PLEASE TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT?

Not precisely. But clearly this is a philosophical difference, and as such I don't care about it anymore.

Regarding the numbers: I did see they don't quite work, but I do think there is a correlation.

[Cephrir]

I really don't care about self-meta tells.

Copper is very good scum FYI and I can back up that assertion if necessary. In hindsight, I see differences in the two games I've played with him, and I feel good about my ability to eventually read him.

[Cephrir]

I really don't care about self-meta tells.

Copper is very good scum FYI and I can back up that assertion if necessary. In hindsight, I see differences in the two games I've played with him, and I feel good about my ability to eventually read him.

What is your current read on copper?

Ambivalent for now, but call me when he starts walling.

[Cephrir]

Because you can read him when he does or because he's scum if he does?

The former, he's definitely going to wall eventually

[Cephrir]

I doubt the scum from last game are colluding now to lie about their past roles unless all of them are scum again so like

nah

[Cephrir]

Well, that was town.

[Cephrir]

I swear I'll start being passionate as soon as I have something about which to be passionate.

[Cephrir]

K going page by page.
didn't expect so much on p1, lol

Hi guys
~f

I think we should be massclaiming our prior roles. I especially want to hear from prior scum about how their fake claims were structured/set up.

I'll start, even. I was town day mailman, night "beyond the grave" message leaver.

This is a post that comes from a town mindset. Normally I wouldn't dwell on the first roll but getting this modmeta might definitely be useful.

Don't quite see how the town role PMs could help, but the scum definitely.

So you think the mods are shit?

Seems like a pointless exercise, but it's going to get talked about anyway, so I might as well save everyone some time.

I was a suicidal 2-shot reflexive doctor. Which means I can doc everyone who targets me on a given night twice, and also had the power to commit suicide. With any luck you all won't make me wish I still had that power.

this sounds now like a scumpost. Why is it pointless? afraid that people learn some about your current state?

worth voting here
VOTE: ceph

Seriously?

1) Obviously, me thinking it's pointless is not going to accomplish it not getting talked about
2) My cooperation should make it clear that I simply don't care either way whether this is talked about
3) This thought process is clearly consistent with what I posted in 18, which you even managed to quote.

Garbage.

In changing your RVS vote so quickly, are you declaring a weak townread on me, or...?

This post is odd, though. and it makes me a tad paranoid - maybe you knew that the mod changed his ways this game and that is why you offered at first for towncred?

What on earth does this point have to do with the post you quoted?

If ever in the history of man there has ever been a time mod meta would be ineffective, that time is right now.

explain this post.

I already have, finish reading the thread.

This doesn't make any sense to me. You're OK lynching one of Reck or Who but you don't want to be the one to hammer? Or what are you actually saying? Just seems overly cautious / going-with-the-flow-y. Why are you afraid of taking a solid stance?

I see, what I mean with this is I found these two players in particular the scummiest but I would not go through with hammering them, if I were voting for them and someone put them at L-1 I would unvote and I would not hammer them if I were not on the wagon.

Why are you interpreting my motivations to fit a scum mo? There is a difference between not having a good enough read to lynch someone and being afraid of something, you don't know what I am thinking so why are you putting forwards this particular motive?

This post works for me. I expect scum copper to be smoother. But I'm far from outright townreading him.

OMG WHY ARE THERE 10 PAGES ALREADY

BUT LMAO EVEN REROLL COULDNT KEEP ME FROM DRAWING AN AWESOME ROLE
YOU TOWNIES ARE SO LUCKY THIS GOT REROLLED
MY LAST ROLE WAS LITERALLY HAND TAILORED FOR ME

THEN AGAIN THIS ONE IS TOO
RIP SCUM

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5260319

[Cephrir]

@Ceph.
Assumimg you are town here, which think pretty likely, I want to play with you as scum to see if you have a good read on me or if you just call me town all the time.

I'm interested in this too, hehe.

[Cephrir]

On Chandra:
The point of Chandra was to be a better townie than Cephrir, sort of, or at least a more influential one.[...]
-She acts more confident than I actually feel
-Plays aggressively and abrasively.
-In order to sound confident, I tried to curtail my usual excessive use of wishy washy weasel words.
-Massively stream-of-consciousness posting. Chandra speaks her mind when she thinks of things. This results in frequent octuple posts.

[Cephrir]

And no, I am not concerned about lessening the effect of the character by telling you what it is.

Speaking of confidence, shos is scum.

[Cephrir]

This says you are ok with Cabd's post, you then go further on covering your back with the: I've seen Cabd lurk as scum... but it's too early to tell.

These points don't have anything to do with each other, untwist your knickers.

This doesn't make sense. First off, he posted it so early in the game that there wasn't even anything else for him to try and avoid talking about. Second, something something starting a policy lynch is a null tell.

Driving the conversation towards theory/setup/speculation allows scum to not contribute anything to the game. I've hidden behind it several times as scum. It's not about what he was avoiding THERE, it's about the direction he was heading. We have now had several pages of people claiming roles and wondering AHHH WHERE ARE THE OLD ROLE CLAIMS and it's just silly.

Advocating a policy lynch is pretty bad, unless the player is truly horrendous -- IE, not Who. Additionally, if it was really that bad that Cabd doesn't like playing with him, his team had the option to swap.

This post comes from town. Even if we disagree about the usefulness of (at least some of the) claims of the pre-reroll, this shows town mindset, imo.

How? These things are all really easy to say and more mafia philosophy than anything alignment-relevant. I you couldn't fake this you need serious work.

That being said, my reservations aside, I think you're town at the moment for trying to thin the herd some, in any way you can. Do I think some of the reasoning is flawed? Yes. But flawed reasoning does not a scum make.

Would you explain to me this townread? how is any of his posts 'trying to think the herd'?

Yeah this is shit I'm pretty happy with my vote

WHy is it shit

Because there was obviously no intent to avoid engaging this game by cabd and you made it seem like there was. You seemed to be pretty certain in your read but now that there's resistance to your read you try to justify it with even more bullshit ('it was just about the direction he was heading') which is put forward more as an excuse for scumreading him than as a read you believe in. Town don't need to make excuses for reads, they believe in reads.

Seriously, people, read 104 and see it's a fucking excuse.

Bullshit. see above.

See above? The above is "could you explain this to me." You not understanding something doesn't make it bullshit. Moreover, I can't see what you could be failing to understand about this post, it makes perfect sense, and it's townier than any of the seemingly random posts you're currently god tier towning Reck for.

Alright, fuck this. Let's do something.

Cephrir, as of right now who should we lynch today?

Reck, same question. Iec, same question.

Reck.

I'd also like Copper to answer this question.

Explanation. Why lynch my townread.

If you don't know why I suspected Reck at that point I invite you to RTFT again, since it apparently didn't stick the first time.

It is true that I prefer scum roles in general, but I have rolled it a lot lately. In fact, I put tokens on town here.

I find this wierd. why would you claim that, in a game which is explicitly not using the tokens?

Who cares?

I claimed it because meta would suggest me being excited to play this game would be scummy, as a means of showing that I'm actually pumped to be town. But who cares, and why not?

What's the pro-town benefit of setup speculation discussion? It's not even current setup spec -- it's setup spec from a completely unrelated game. It is not productive, it's anti-productive. It's a distraction. I don't particularly give a shit about meta or anything, so that piece of the argument falls flat for me. For me, analyzing that within the context of this game alone, it's sketchy.

At least you can admit your bias.

You don't know if there is a correlation between the roles of the prior setup and the new ones, from the roles you all said you received I suspect there is one so the discussion is not useless, there are other ways where discussion of past roles can be useful as well.

I could make the same argument for RVS you just mad for Cabd proposing that discussion, it's not productive because all of us here know how it goes, it's anti-productive, it's a distraction, it's scum indicative that you RVS voted ... (if you space the logical jumps from A to D by putting in B and C to make it look reasonable it still is absurd when you connect the dots).

I do think it's possible you are strirring things up as town and some pressure on Cabd is fine by me.

Of course you do know, there's no correlation and it's explicitly been said that a new setup has been brought. The only thing we can get from this is scum fakeclaims, and you look a lot like you're just trying to direct conversation to useless specs.

Honestly if anyone is still thinking Reck is scum after reading this page I'm gonna shit brix and throw'em on you

I'm not going to make the logical connections for you. If you think someone's town I want to hear why you think so whether or not I agree, I'm more interested in your reasons than the actual read, so what makes this post town?

DO you have a physiological issue with giving reasons? So far I feel like I'm playing with a less articulate mastin.

[Cephrir]

This game is pretty high-profile and run by smart people. There's absolutely no way they would allow setup spec based on the previous game to be useful for town here -- that would be terrible modding. I expect there is exactly the same amount of correlation you would see between any two Magua games. So unless you normally do buckets of mod meta, we can stop anytime.

No matter how smart Magua is he doesn't live in a vacuum, he had 1 day to make a new setup and he had the roles from his previous game fresh in mind, so I guarantee he is going to re-use some ideas.

The point of the RVS example was not to compare the validity of the two, it was to highlight how Reck made a series of unjustified logical leaps to land to his conclusion.

On another thought, this could be fitting. I'd imagine Magua was not planning this game alone on that day, you know many people here communicate in other means and stuff, online chats etc.
But I can see how this is coming from a townie mindset.

Because _______

I made this point more often and more emphatically than copper did. Here you are agreeing with a post of his that isn't even making it, and actually the opposite. Perhaps you don't want to give me any credit, since you're probably building up to trying to force a scumread on me.

shos is different because he's being a smarmy coy asshole about his read. He's doing the "I have a read, you wanna know what it is? Too bad!" thing that reminds me of elementary school bus rides.

Does that make me scum? have you seen me on gamestarts?
in a game YOU modded I did practically the same, got myself run up and almost lynched on D1. ended up vigging two scums iirc or something like that. This behaviour was not a one-time thing too. How does that make me scum, please?

I don't remember what you did to get run up there. If I feel like it, maybe I'll check. If it was really "no I won't explain my reads and I'm taking my ball too" then you deserved it.

minus for votes cast, plus for votes received?

No. Doesn't add up.

I like the way rhinox is going about the game.

Not really feeling a shos wagon as it's based on not cooperating, essentially, which I don't find to be a scumtell

for him.

Copper is posting safe. Trying not to butt heads.
VOTE: copper

Shos, thoughts on copper?

Bolded for you what would be the main idea. TS knows me well <3

My thoughts on copper are kinda wierd. I mean so far I have like 3-4 reads, main ones being reck town and ceph scum, but I'm always a sucker for AtE and activity, and copper & ceph's activity makes me wonder. ceph I'm scumreading for the contents of his posts and their consistency of being bad imo, but copper, I dunno, partial agreement doesn't give me shit and the fact that he posted that much content by now(which is actually content) makes me lean town....

Not voting there anyway.

Color me surprised. Lol. Oh, their consistency of being bad! What a grand fucking case. I'm quivering in my boots because I can just see that getting sheeped. And apparently copper's activity makes him town and mine makes no difference, even though I have twice as many posts as anyone else? Yeah, k. Can you not come up with anything more creative than OMGUS? You've done a pretty terrible job of pointing out what posts of mine are apparently bad.

[Cephrir]

That's tryhard? If it is, then I'll be sad.

[Cephrir]

Vote: Tiershift

Voting is a bitch on a phone or I would have done this a few hours ago. Let's lynch him.

Yeah so like

Why

[Cephrir]

Pretty sure mollie is town.

[Cephrir]

I checked if you were posting elsewhere, Cabd, and that is the only reason I'm not attempting to eviscerate you

It concerns me that I've been townbinned so quickly.

[Cephrir]

I was just talking specifically about Cabd there. I'd also like to hear what was different about your approach vs. mine there.

I am a little worried about them, but mostly in the sense that I don't understand where they're coming from. Reck is still on my radar but merely on it.

[Cephrir]

It's also curious that you seem to have suddenly stopped treating me like I'm retarded.

[Cephrir]

If this is directed at me I don't understand it.

The second part was directed at Cabd.

That's what I'm saying. You thinking this doesn't have consequences on your reads on the players townreading him?

No no, it completely does affect those. That's what I meant -- I don't understand how anyone is making that leap, and it makes me wary of those doing so (shos, for instance).

Well you suddenly stopped posting like you're retarded

grumble grumble grumble.

[Cephrir]

(the first part was a response to this:

Ceph, I'm more worried about people's townreads on reck than on you atm. How do you feel about all the townreads on reck?

which in turn was addressing this:

It concerns me that I've been townbinned so quickly.

but if you still don't follow don't worry about it)

[Cephrir]

That's probably a sign that I'm town!

[Cephrir]

That said, yell away, I like yelling

[Cephrir]

I was asking Cabd why he treated you and I differently with regards to defending him from Reck when your behavior and mine were similar.

[Cephrir]

I'm under contractual obligation to post this and inform you all that you're going to be overrun by the mighty armies of cute. Can you handle the swee-- ugh, never mind, this script is disgusting. *burns script*

Can you handle these FEROCIOUS ANIMALS?

Look at that cat. He wants to tear your faces off, scum, and feed them to you.

How about the fox? He looks cute on the outside, but just look at how he's manhandling that stick. Fierce.

The warthog is a fucking warthog. You really shouldn't fuck with warthogs, they will fuck you up. He also moonlights as a raging demigod fire wizard so yeah.

And MASTER FUCKING SPLINTER? Yeah, he's so awesome, he doesn't even need to destroy you himself. Hes so much better than you, he can TEACH OTHERS TO BE BETTER THAN YOU.

So watch out scum, these pissed off adorable woodland creatures are gonna take you down.

Contract fulfilled.

[Cephrir]

If I had to put my finger on it, your play this game, ceph, reminds me almost exactly as the rankbaus NY game I wish I could forget.

Not a Chandra game... I must need to crack some more heads.

[Cephrir]

I have the opportunity for code here; that's rare so I may as well take it.

If you think you're picking up the sorts of tells off me that fferycho did in that game, you are incorrect.

[Cephrir]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Early parts of shos's Iso looked really bad but his walls are okayish.

they really aren't

they're exactly as bad they just have slightly more words

The sum of his iso is still a really shitty mastin impression

And I allow mastin to be mastin because she has earned that from me and I have learned that trying to get her not to be mastin is a waste of time but no one else has earned that privilege especially when they are not even doing it properly

@All
I like what they are doing in other games wrt to posting the team's reads and summaries of the PT discussions on players instead of just our own, would like to see that here as well more, I've asked my teammates for some reads.

I have only gotten a few comments so far, I am the only one really consistently keeping up with all the games but also I think they're waiting for more to happen in this game so they can have stronger opinions

Std said something that changed my behavior but I'm not interested in talking about how or why atm

Vote: Katsuki

The primary issue with this vote is that it's taking away a vote that was on shoscum

[Cephrir]

Here's the thing. Katsuki will lurk his face off as scum, and is good at staying alive the longer the game goes.

I agree Shos is probably scum, but I want information on day 1. I want to pressure Katsuki to get a read, so I know whether he needs to die in a fire right the fuck now, or he can live and be useless for the rest of the game.

PLS
WE BOTH KNOW WHAT'S SCUMMY ABOUT SHOS POSTING
AND ITS MORE ABOUT WHAT HES DOING RATHER THAN WHAT HE'S SAYING

GAMMA AND CHEERY ARE SAYING YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY NOT BE SEEING WHAT WE'RE SEEING

A) I thought you weren't reading the game
B) I have no idea what you are talking about
C) I want you to explain it rather than hope someone else will do it for you

After ISOing, I think shos is town, with a few reservations. Why is he a collective scumread? All I see is people hating on his catchup but no real reasons for his scumminess.

Not feeling good about this.

Also, hi mollie!

Read my posts

He outright refuses to be protown

[Cephrir]

I'm talking about his refusal to explain reads no matter how much I beg him. They are not real.

[Cephrir]

I like Rhinox on the surface, but I don't think he's done anything hard to fake.

Presently the people who've posted on this page are the townreads I feel solid on.

[Cephrir]

Reck might as well be confirmed town to me, UT is probably the player that knows my game the best on this site, and I wouldn't expect scumReck to unpromptedly give us UT's town read on me.

I award you no points

[Cephrir]

No

VOTE: Katsuki

[Cephrir]

Scum copper
Town copper

[Cephrir]

I literally dont understand how someone could possibly think reads with all the depth of "LLD is scum because fuck you ceph" are genuine

[Cephrir]

I'm voting you until you respond coherently

It's really not very hard to make this go away

But if you won't attempt to play mafia I will lynch you with a smile on my lips and a song in my heart

[Cephrir]

Not that I don't suspect kats, I totally do

[Cephrir]

also I apologize for being pretty missing in action. these last 48 hours have taken a lot out of me

did u kno that being gay is bad and i should move home w/ my parents so they can correct my gay ways?

People need to know when to give up. My god.

I'm voting you until you respond coherently

It's really not very hard to make this go away

But if you won't attempt to play mafia I will lynch you with a smile on my lips and a song in my heart

Just because I'm apparently not playing mafia like how you want me to doesn't mean I'm not playing.

You haven't read the game, and you're pretending your opinions hold water and we should listen to you.

That's ridiculous.

this is the dumbest fucking wagon ive ever seen like holy fuck

even dumber than the 1 on you and fate hydra in adventure time?

I think you're thinking Kise, which I flaked out of.

But yes, probably dumber than that one.

Happier with my vote than I was when I made it. It's like I decided to go digging on a remote island because I felt like it and now it's like holy fuck this whole island is made of treasure!

[Cephrir]

this is the dumbest fucking wagon ive ever seen like holy fuck

even dumber than the 1 on you and fate hydra in adventure time?

I think you're thinking Kise, which I flaked out of.

But yes, probably dumber than that one.

oh yeah it was kise. you were channeling fate for a mo so i got confused.

do you have any reads?

I feel that ive been quite clear on my reads.

Shos as already explained

, and tiershift.

WE BOTH KNOW WHAT'S SCUMMY ABOUT SHOS POSTING
AND ITS MORE ABOUT WHAT HES DOING RATHER THAN WHAT HE'S SAYING

Shos was my top scumread and this still doesn't convince me he is scum

That's how terrible an explanation it is

[Cephrir]

Oooh, ad hom! Good idea! People will probably townread you for being a dick!

[Cephrir]

It wasn't a PBPA, but I absolutely agree that the whole sequence of posts he made was just an attempt to look useful without accomplishing anything.

What I don't get is why it took driving you to L-1 to get you to say that in a manner anyone else could be expected to understand, or why you're still trying to discredit me while pretending you're repeating yourself even though you haven't said that before.

It's pretty clear to anyone reading the thread that I am scumreading shos, and I think I've made that clear as recently as this page. That's not my issue in the slightest.

[Cephrir]

Our differences are not sorted out

This seems like a bus

[Cephrir]

I am so dumb, how dare I suspect you, that is just the stupidest thing ever.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I'm only scumreading you because I think you're bussing shos. Which is yet another demonstration that you aren't reading my posts.

[Cephrir]

(also mean things HERE about me for stating that reading the game will negatively affect my reads, which is not dumb at all)

Yes it is. I have not heard anything dumber today.

[Cephrir]

And me not reading is apparently scum.

Please demonstrate how it is alignment indicative.

You don't care if your reads are accurate.

P.S. You're also scum for having a shitty reaction to your wagon.

[Cephrir]

Capslockrage isn't exactly hard to fake. It's also really overblown and fake sounding. Quoth the gut.

shos is a scummy scumbutt. This fish is just wriggling more.

[Cephrir]

because Cabd's response after early game shenanigans were weak and underwhelming and I still think he's scummy?

WOuld also probably vote TierShift. Would vote Cephrir as well

So the only thing you have to say is cabd is scum for a small thing he did on page 5 and everyone who disagrees with you is scum

what other reads do you have

[Cephrir]

Things have happened since then though, what do you think of those things

Though Cabd has been posting elsewhere now so his shit is getting flimsier by the second

[Cephrir]

The Who thing is maybe the one thing I do like from him, but mollie's actual posts were already a much better reason to townread the slot at that point.

I am underwhelmed by him giving me an easy townread, meta or no meta. It's very possible he would think that he had to townread me as scum, but he knows I kick ass at scum, so I would expect much more paranoia on me. There is some possibility this is being overcome by arrogance and I mean that in the most affectionate way possible.

If he was energetic about his copper case and excited about this game changing theory then I'd expect him to have actually come back and posted it last night as promised.

"awful reads with very little in the way of reasoning" is also a pretty good description of shos' posts.

But yeah you're not wrong, I just have bigger fish to fry

[Cephrir]

Fuck I'm weasel wording

Someone smack me

Thanks

[Cephrir]

I would love to see anywhere shos does that because I honestly cannot say I've seen it.

[Cephrir]

He's hanging out in the scum qt waiting for cabd and shos to come back

[Cephrir]

Well this is an improvement innit.

@ceph's longpost @me 245:
1. I don't think the mods are shit. But in general, most mods don't shift mindsets completely between games in this regard. As a mod myself, I know that usually my fakeclaims don't change in shape. That means, I don't, say, one time give full fakeclaims, one time give only name, one time tell them give me something and I'll build for you. It's often the same.

You are probably correct about fakeclaim types being consistent, but rolenames are unlikely to be indicative of alignment here.

Ceph, I asked you in 249 what was the purpose of the intentional badposts in gamestart and you haven't answered it, it seems, but it matters no more. The reason I did this was because I often start games with acting scummy to pull reactions and start the game quicker. I'm saying this because I saw people are scumreading me, and it has to be because of gamestart play because I practically wasn't here for like three days so.

Can you explain to me what made you *confident* that I am scum in 253?

They weren't intentionally bad. Just intentionally rawr. 251 is the answer to this.

You were my top scumread at that point and I felt very good about it, it is that simple.

why do you think I would do the same thing is also a mystery to me.

You can hardly avoid occasionally doing something you've done before. We may have keyboards and brains but we're still creatures of habit.

Ceph, have you read 281's part that is directed at you? probably commented on it in the future (lol python joke, anyone?) but from the skimming I recall your vote still being on me, so this still stands.

I have since moved it actually, while continuing to express a scumread on you. I addressed most of 281 in 284, but I assume you refer to the InuYasha reference which I did gloss over. I don't tend to use meta too heavily until I've played with someone personally and preferably more than once. I don't think I mod-suspected you in InuYasha, so there must be differences. Of course I knew everyone's alignment, but I still would read town posts sometimes and think they were scummy (some xofelf posts spring to mind, though I would have been more aware of her playstyle than the town was).

@284 - the idea is not that I agree/disagree with that post at all. I think it's wrong, yes, but that is irrelevant, because the reason I think it is wrong is information that I think a townie may not think of, ergo, this can come from a town mindset. note that I said I *CAN* see how this..etc, not I *THINK* that this..etc. The idea is that it is not a "OH YOU MUST BE TOWN", and rather a, "oh you may be town after all". and yeah, of course these stuff can be faked, everything can be faked.

I misunderstood your post, then.

I'm very good as scum, you don't have to teach me. GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE TUNNEL. this is not a me-building-up-for-scumreading-you (I'm not, as of now, in case you missed), this is NOT ABOUT YOU. so it does not even matter if you said this too.

Everything is about me! I did notice. It's absolutely possible in my eyes that you could be shifting away from me because of coaching, so you're not off the hook, and I really don't care for excuses in the vein of "I was acting scummy on purpose" regardless of whether that might happen to be a strategy you use elsewhere. The post read as a buildup of that sort, and I don't have a problem with that type of post unless it makes bad points. I believe you that the first point was not intended that way.

also you need to lrn2quote, *Sigh*, or at least bold what you write inside quotes of others so I know what YOU wrote.

I don't see anything wrong with my quotes here.

I deserved what? I brought to myself LOADS of votes in thought that I can easily prove myself as town by claiming Inu?Yasha. Hence, I tried to provoke everyone all the way. What eventually happened was that a counterwagon formed for me, and it was on scum, surprise! and then I vigged more scum, etc etc. doesn't matter anymore. I'm pretty sure that if you try and look up my meta you'll find this in MANY games.

The logic behind your choices does not appeal to me at all, but I can admit the possiblity you genuinely feel that's a good strategy.

@TS and Ceph; no, I can't *convince* you about that post, it is my gut that says that this comes from a townreck, ok? good. last time I checked it's not like anyone ever gave a reason for why Reck is scum, at all, so why the fuck would I need to be defending him?

There have absolutely been some reasons for that, but anyway, fine. Just fucking say so the first time.

Ceph, explain mollie townread @307? she barely posted, and this is not enough to distinguish between scum and town mollie through meta.

I disagree. Call me arrogant if you wish.

[Cephrir]

I cannot wait to watch Katsuki pirouette through hoops!

[Cephrir]

Reminder to attempt meta on two players who are concerning me and who I think meta will be useful with.

[Cephrir]

not lynching shos!

hey mollie in what world do you think its protown to do what shos did?

He's literally spammed this game with useless fluff content. Rhinox bothered expanding on my reasoning for why everything Shos is doing is scum-motivated.

The recent posts were not useless.

[Cephrir]

Take this for example: in 123 you liked ceph for town. This was Thursday 4/2 at 9:30 AM according to my timestamps. About 24hrs later, in 242 you call ceph12 a scum post and worth voting and you vote. Had you not read that post before? If not, what did you base your ceph townread on 24hrs earlier? For the record you questioned ceph in your second post in the game referencing posts ceph made on the first page so I'm not going to buy that you just didn't catch 12 when it was made.

Good catch.

I was going to say that I will make catchup walls like that trying to flow through my thoughts as they would have been at the time, but I think that is a scum indicator for me now that I think about it.

[Cephrir]

Ceph, what do you mean that I am being mastin.?

@Ceph 403: Is THAT the reason you scumread me? REALLY?
was it not obvious to you once I had mentioned InuYasha first time????

Definitely some of it yeah, it was absolutely what set me off at first and it's also what I was talking about with regard to mastin. When mastin is asked to explain her reads she never comes up with more than "X just

feels

like scum." reiterated 14 different ways.

I didn't exactly go iso you in Inuyasha. I skim games I'm modding anyway.

TS' L-1 vote didn't alarm me, nor did a quick unvote. Some people are ready to make shit happen and some aren't. I think Katsuki's over the top reaction was manufactured as fuck, even though I hardly suspected him at all when I first voted and was mostly making a point.

[Cephrir]

Katsuki not re-evaluating in the light of much better posts does him no favors and his team can ATE all it wants. 536 was a great post and his total lack of comment on it or any recent shos posts just reinforces my whole picture.

[Cephrir]

Also, "hurr durr I have an awesome role" is something scum say for points. Actual great roles don't want everyone to know how great they are.

[Cephrir]

I am developing a metaphorical fever. Feels good bro.

[Cephrir]

I can try, Rhinox!

First of all, this string of posts merits comment because it's more content than shos had put into the entire game thread preceding them and now comprises the bulk of his posting. But on to the point.

can anyone explain to me katscum?

I really want her dead becuase of all the caps but I don't recall anything scummy
..apart from her posts
what the fuck, kats

Though this could be contrived, it reads as organic to me.

Katsuki are you a jester
wtf. like on the one hand I'd very much like to vote you right now and on the other I see all the votes piling so quick that it makes sense you're just being scumvoted

Katsuki (5): Iecerint, copper223, Lady Lambdadelta, Cephrir, pirate mollie
This wagon is a good wagon. mark these guys on it as a group of at least 4 townies

Also should be taking some looks at those who lurked so far. it's been a week almost, no excuses

Again, this looks like a real thought process to me. I've seen a lot of town players get paranoid about wagons that build too quickly, which I see as a usually unjustified fear but I understand it. He's giving out a lot of townpoints to this wagon, too, despite the fact that I can see several players on it I at least am not townreading strongly.

Reck what the fuck are you talking about?
can youtown please start playing and not spit crap?

This line reminded me forcefully of shos' play in Inuyasha, finally. I wouldn't appreciate it nearly as much were it not aggression against an explicit townread. He wants his townread to get in the game -- it's not a mudsling as it would appear to be otherwise.

I am not hard townreading shos here but posts like this definitely make me want to return to the drawing board for at least a moment. And that's why it bothers me not to see that. Katsuki looks more locked onto a mislynch target and determined not to let go. If he wanted to try to paint these posts as scummy, I could accept that if it was done passably, but you don't ignore three walls by your top suspect who was previously pretty much lurking.

[Cephrir]

I didn't go iso him

But I still have a vague recollection of the game

[Cephrir]

@Ceph
That is not a keyboard typo, it's a specific read switch he claims I would do in both games as scum, the comparison is pretty forced as I said, the objective in that game was to keep Cabd as a "town only I can read" read but that looks scummy so the rest would still follow my lead while I pocketed him and killed him off the next night phase, at no point did I give indication I was going to vote him or want him lynched; the question is if this is a genuine effort from Cabd to meta match trying to find scum or if this is self preservation.

What is your read on Cabd/copper?

I am looking elsewhere today and don't have as firm an opinion on either of you as I would like. Cabd did finally try to do something but I am greedy and I want to see him do more. You are not matching either meta the way I wish you would gently slide into for me, and your posts have not inspired any strong feelings in me.

I'll be reviewing shos but based on the number of players that want his scalp I am starting to think he is town, I don't believe in busses in this setup unless scum is dumb in which case we will win anyway, if shos is town Rhinox is my top scumread because he is fanning the flames without exposing himself like Ceph. is doing.

That's a shit reason to think someone is town. What on earth about this setup says "don't bus" to you? We don't know anything about it, do we?

[Cephrir]

ok so I just skimmed the last page and fuck this game

now to see if anyone else on my team wants to take over for me I'm not dealing with this.

If you can't handle a couple scumreads, don't play mafia

Gambit/10

[Cephrir]

10-3 is what this setup tells me.

Probably. So? I know you aren't this basic.

Plus I did not say I am townreading him, I need to review the whole thing but it's starting to smell, what I find shitty play from the players voting shos including you is the lack of a concise case despite the constant requests for one.

You pretty much did though.

I am not voting for shos. Did you even read last page? I am clearly backing off.

If Cabd is town Ceph is more likely to be scum for the above non-read.

Yeah, town never have null reads.

[Cephrir]

let me spell it out for you.

THE SCORE THINGY IS A DISTRACTION, AND ANY GUESS WE CAN FORMULATE IS AT BEST JUST THAT, A WILD GUESS.

The best case scenario is that we figure it out! And then scum ALSO know what the fuck it does, assuming they don't already know, so you're giving an informed minority and an uninformed majority information. Guess who uses it better? (also, this is why I think you're scum. I have this suspicion that scum DON'T know what the point system is, and that you, as scum, are trying to not only use that as a way to look town, but also figure it out so you can use that information to your advantage.)

I agree that thinking about the score is a bad use of time right now, but I don't agree that any attempt to figure it out is necessarily scum-motivated. It's just pointless.

That's how basic it gets, a D1 bus with that ratio is even more retarded than usual so given nobody besides perhaps Katsuki with his soft that he is 15-shot JOAT or Cabd if a scum jumped the gun when he started lurking is worth bussing, I am assuming for today that scum isn't likely going to do that.

I pretty much said what I said, if you want to simplify the meaning of my posts to the point they say something else it's all you.

My complaint, did you read my post where I include you, is that despite screaming for his lynch for pages you haven't given me 1 post summing up why he is scum.

Yes that's why I said more likely and not 100%.

The best part of bussing is bussing a partner who won't actually get lynched for it. Moreover, I don't have enough :igmeoy: for this train of thought and I'm a bit disappointed in you for thinking so simplistically.

I don't feel the need to provide a summary of reasons I believe someone is scum when I no longer particularly believe that. It boils down to "trying to look useful without actually doing anything + refusing to explain reads so aggressively that I thought they were made up" and that is the best summary I can be arsed to write.

pedit: Didn't see that, would have assumed it anyway.

[Cephrir]

...Maybe a filter that changes the word "particularly" to "I'm retarded" would be a useful service to me. Someone code me a browser extension.

[Cephrir]

what above non-read

He's talking about my response regarding Cabd.

I gave a null read and that is heinous.

[Cephrir]

ftr I wld rather you let the person am asking the question answer actually answer tia

I am impatient.

Until he gets lynched and then he can start flaming you post game for being a moron, totally worth it when townies D1 are so easy to scumread if you want to it's a joke. We can talk about my scumhunting tactics and how to improve them when you are able to read the setup description before the game.

The only part of this I understand is the insulting part. Thanks bro.

pedit: I gave my two cents copper, you just wanted nickels.

pedit2: yep

[Cephrir]

Thinking is for the placid!

[Cephrir]

I was inclined to argue with 589 but it's actually logical.

[Cephrir]

As far as I can tell you are not reacting to anything in any time

[Cephrir]

I do expect a town mindset when catching up is to read everything first and then put together a coherant thought with a single conclusion on a player.

shos seems an even less thoughtful player than I am, and I have never done this and don't plan to ever do this.

Clear things up for me here, what are your current reads on shos, kats, me, and thoughts on my case on shos?

conflicted/meh; scum; probably town; I need to read it again because dense arguments frequently lose me.

[Cephrir]

The point is you already made a half enemy with that post about lynching NS so if you have to vote someone as scum when you are under pressure and don't want to OMGUS going for NS, who by the way is already scumreading you anyway, makes sense and I don't like it when you can see a possible narrative in what a player is doing.

Would you have expected him to have a better scumread given his posts at that point?

@All
I don't like a Katsuki lynch, he was clearly softing a strong role, now there are 3 cases:
- He is scum, he has at most 2 days then the game is up.
- He is a strong role, a lynch would be terrible.
- He is baiting a NK as town, a lynch would be bad.

Why would the game be up? Plenty of strong roles can be faked forever. I don't think he's an absolute moron, so I feel comfortable discounting option 2.

That's probably why he called this wagon stupid and I don't think it's smart to lynch soneobe that chose this line of play D1, let scum WIFOM or let him dig his own grave when we have more information to base our decisions on.

Well, I happen to think he called it stupid because he was "caught for the wrong reasons"

[Cephrir]

Yes, his logic is pretty shit.

[Cephrir]

Does your role PM specifically define what lylo is?

Answer this question again, without the casuality

[Cephrir]

@Ceph
Sure, shos could still be on you and he did give indications of going on quite a few others, why are you discounting everyone else

I realize that my question implied I expected the answer to be no, but it wasn't intended that way.

If you feel confident lynching him on that good for you, I currently don't.

That's hardly what I'm lynching him on. It plays a role, that is all.

[Cephrir]

I tried to meta LLD.

It didn't work. I'm trash at meta on games I wasn't in.

[Cephrir]

katsuki was in that game?

[Cephrir]

Town catchup is town.

Agreed on much of the playerlist having town moments.

I need to do something.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Cabd

[Cephrir]

I am getting wary of tier as well, I was townreading him too easily just for agreeing with me

[Cephrir]

Katsuki's claim became too hard for me.

._.

[Cephrir]

that post did not especially make me want to lynch notscience

[Cephrir]

One thing that confuses me about Cephrir is that I feel like he would have picked up on players townreading him for crumbing knowledge about the score system, but then he expressed paranoia about people townreading him.

Like, I assume he crumbed it with knowledge that it would probably make people townread him. Which is fine. But then it's weird to get paranoid about people townreading you.

I don't know why I'm getting townread for that

[Cephrir]

There sure is a vote on me

Please, give a case on me, I could use a fight to get back into this game!

[Cephrir]

I'm actually just paranoid, especially in team mafia, yo

[Cephrir]

I'm going to clear the air sooner rather than later. All my posts on the subject of the score should be taken at face value. I have at best a teensy bit of insight and it's almost completely irrelevant.

[Cephrir]

I really did want something to fight but I know I won't get that from a mastinread

[Cephrir]

Just today mostly

But also I want stronger reads than I have

[Cephrir]

I'm just going to reassess here, possibly over the weekend, and get my shit together. Until then, I'm probably going to continue spouting bullshit.

[Cephrir]

1. You replied earlier that Mala hadn't given a read on Mollie in particular, so you did see the question, don't lie. I find it strange as she told me she knows Mollie's meta really well so I would expect that read from her to be a priority, I've been reading TTH for my teammates for instance as I have been playing with her a lot.

2. I am inferring you could be teammates.

Your second point here lacks depth for me. You do later mention having had to prod teammates to respond to your questions & etc. but I think this is a pretty quick conclusion to jump to.

@Shos
In your case weird is more likely to mean town as I said cause your stubborness to setup fish the votecount information despite the heat you are getting I think is something a town that gives no fucks and is playing for himself is more likely to do rather than a scumplayers.

This is why I want to attempt meta on shos. I know full well that I find meta fruitless 99% of the time, but shos is such an atypical player that I want to reassure myself whether his anomalousness is present as all alignments or is a towntell.

- T-Bone, the reason for his push on TS is the only somewhat alignment relevant post I got from him, I can understand not liking people asking fir pressure on you without doing so themselves, on the other hand he is also OMGUSing left right and centre when his play has little to reccomend for, also as Three-Pronged-Trouser-God in the hydra they controlled the conversation a lot more but I don't know how much of that was T-Bone.

Probably very little. No idea what my basis for this is but I fully expected T-Bone to lurk.

- LLD, I am not going to townread just because of her shenaningangs about being annoyed with the re-roll but many others are, she has been very mainstream with her pushes like shos, I am interested in her NS line if questioning because that is original content that should allow for a better read.

From my cursory meta, I came to the unfortunate conclusion that LLD's play is similar either way and I can't townread her for demeanor based reasons. In fact it gave me no real clues at all and on a philosophical basis she can't even be especially expected to bus or not bus. I am going to ignore this and try to read her as though I had not attempted it for lack of other options, but she may wind up being a POE read for me for this reason.

The Rhinox read in particular is a problem because it clashes with what my other townreads are saying so I'd like to know why he is town if you are townreading him (question for everyone).

I have liked his logical approach and find myself agreeing with him often though logical does not necessarily make him town and he lacks any emotional undertones to read on. In no small part I'm not concerned with him because other players have given me less reason for townreads. I can't recall whether we have heard what Tammy thinks of me or not but I'm interested.

[Cephrir]

I can't recall whether we have heard what Tammy thinks of me or not but I'm interested.

Not that you've gotten to it but I'll withdraw this question. There is no point to it, as Tammy would obviously know the right answer.

[Cephrir]

It's shocking to me that you can possibly have zero read on all of Rhinox, copper, mollie and Iec.

I'm reading two and a half of them as town pretty handily.

[Cephrir]

man those stuffs really blew me away

[Cephrir]

I dunno cabds content really blew me away so I think I should vote for him to be president

[Cephrir]

I feel about the same about this as I would a fruit vendor

[Cephrir]

"RECK'S WHOLE CASE RESTS ON THIS THING THAT JUST HAPPENED AND NOT MY SHITTY PLAY BEFOREHAND"

LITERALLY DIE

This is an obvious misrep, he didn't say that at all.

I think Cabd's role fits with what I am seeing about this game wrt to setup spec., once again we have a 10-3 setup in a themed game, this heavily implies we are going to have a lot of vanilla-like or. negative utility roles town side and I disagree with the interpretation that this role is naturally scum indicative, that's pretty big BS.

Huh? No it doesn't.

Furthermore Magua was just playing a game with Mollie, T-Bone and myself where Dramonic (likely as there were 2 mods) created a double foreman role that could halven the prod time of a lurker and make him hated for that day, which is another, less direct, way to manipulate the votes on that player, so I can totally see him coming up with this role and it was a town role.

How does that make it town here? It's not alignment indicative. Don't read people on roles unless you have an amazingly good reason to. Ever.

I am now leaning town on Cabd, those readlists I have only seen from Cabd town, although admittedly while his townreads are well developped I don't like the number of nulls but that is inline with him not having so much time to play the game because of RL.

This stuff is just so simplistic and it's not what I'm used to seeing from you at all. I don't know how to explain the decline in your play quality this game to myself. "Cabd is town because he can't fake a readlist"? Oh come on.

Ceph, NS and Cabd, please full claim.

Uh... no? Moreover, make me?

what I am trying to get to the bottom of is why cabd targeted tboner when I have barely seen cabd's suspicion on him and I am not buying that it is because it was the only 1 that he noticed cos it was bolded when tier and rhino were also prodded but not in bolded. cabd's only saving grace is that he indicated that he wasn't going to use his role in the first place (explains the lack of attention) plus he loves playing scum so I wld THINK he wld be smarter than try to bus a scummate in tboner.

I am trying to sort things out.

This is a really nonsensical thing to get hung up on. Cabd decided to prove his role at this moment because he decided to prove his role at this moment. It has nothing to do with whether or not he suspects T-Bone. I don't know how you get to lolscumbuddies but please don't say things that make me worry about my only halfway decent townread.

The shos push is also important by the way, I don't see at least 1 scum not getting on that push if he is town and I don't see most townies that have a clue of how to read him not getting onto it if he is scum, try to remember this when doing future analysis.

What utter garbage.

A 2-1 split is also totally possible as well if that's the nature of the objection (2 in the townred and 1 lurking) but the priority for me is to see if those 4 or 6 names are the core of a winning team for town going forwards and we can just get rid of the rest in order of scumminess until we win or if it's a faulty premise and that block was artificially generated by scum.

So basically

The scum were somewhere.

Okay, thanks, that is really helpful and insightful!

[Cephrir]

What dies "what I'm seeing with regard to setup spec" even mean in 868?

[Cephrir]

It's not my fault you decided to represent him as saying basically the opposite of what he was saying.

[Cephrir]

Iec, we're pretty much on the same page for possible lynches. Cabd/T-Bone for not doing much, Reck and Tier for not doing anything town, copper for not matching my opinion of his abilities.

pedit: Um?

[Cephrir]

What the fuck is your problem? I take issue with your play because you're thinking simplistically. That's not the you I've seen before. I'm not useless and you can go fuck yourself for saying so?

Not full claiming because one person randomly asked me to is a scumclaim? What the shit?

[Cephrir]

I've also never seen you get mad about nothing, and I don't really know what's going on here

[Cephrir]

does it bother any1 else that iceyrent tried to slide himself in as town in post 892?

I'm not that bothered, I think what he said is factually true

[Cephrir]

I don't know what to do with this day someone help

There are like 5 people I'm willing to lynch but I don't have powerful beliefs they are scum

[Cephrir]

-Wanna explain any of that
-Why is everyone trying so hard to discredit me for perfectly reasonable opinions that don't actually differ that much from what other people are saying

[Cephrir]

Because he claimed "loldontlynchmetodaybecauserole"

many strong much convince, i know

[Cephrir]

Not for lynching today: Iec, mollie, Rhinox, shos

Everyone else is in some state of flux or another for me and it's a little depressing

[Cephrir]

But that makes utility lynching in Cabd/T-Bone sound pretty appealing

[Cephrir]

I'm not being scumread

But your response makes me want to lynch you more!

[Cephrir]

Also, nice beetlejuice and deus ex scumread of me!

[Cephrir]

I don't think lurking implies intentional lurking

[Cephrir]

@tier: see 926

[Cephrir]

because of the reasons you're going to tell us about now, surely

[Cephrir]

So basically you'd lynch me because you haven't read the game enough to get a real scumread and based purely on the fact i'm willing to compromise on you

that seems protown

[Cephrir]

Preedit: So basically you're willing to lynch a slot you admittedly had no read on...and that seems protown. Riiight and I'm the scummy one.

It does. I do not have any scumreads right now that aren't Katsuki, who we aren't lynching today because of basically nothing. Unless you are suggesting I lynch my townreads, this is my best option at the moment. It's not like I voted you, though. I just expressed my willingness to lynch you because you're in the large group of players I'm unsure about and you've also been useless. Even now, you're here and able to write a lot of words and you still aren't doing anything that doesn't directly relate to yourself.

Lec, what do you think of T-bone?

1. It's an i.

2. I think he's scummy, but not in a dynamic or exciting way that would make me risk lynching him over Cabd. The only player who fits that bill for me is you, because if you flip scum I think we can infer something from your windows of higher activity and lower activity.

Cabd is scummy in a dynamic or interesting way?

that seems protown

rich coming from you

only reason y9ure a dumbtown reqd is because i dont expect you to undetstand whats scum motivated about youre posting...

maybe im wrong about you and you actually understand how to play mafia but i doubt it so you can stay i. thw dumbtown have no idea how to play mafia catagory. youre lucky b3caue3 normqlly i would want players such as yourself dead becauw3 such players as town are liabilities at best. I have 0 tolerance for vi's as town.

I've never been called a VI. I would much rather be called scum than bad, so please stick to that, because I am not bad. I think you're just trying to discredit me because I want to lynch you and you don't like my reasons. Incidentally, you've used the words "as town" about 40 times today.

pedit: let me post you assholes

[Cephrir]

Yeah, really kind. Remind me not to interact with you once I finish lynching you tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

Preedit: So basically you're willing to lynch a slot you admittedly had no read on...and that seems protown. Riiight and I'm the scummy one.

It does. I do not have any scumreads right now that aren't Katsuki, who we aren't lynching today because of basically nothing. Unless you are suggesting I lynch my townreads, this is my best option at the moment. It's not like I voted you, though. I just expressed my willingness to lynch you because you're in the large group of players I'm unsure about and you've also been useless. Even now, you're here and able to write a lot of words and you still aren't doing anything that doesn't directly relate to yourself.

I find it easier when I am behind on a game to focus on myself first to get back into it. I do it pretty much in every game regardless of alignment. I don't fault you for being willing to lynch a player in your null pool, I faulted you for not making an attempt to do something about it beyond 'hey utility lynch'. When someone invokes the term 'utility lynch' it tells me that you don't care who gets lynched, as it doesn't matter so long as someone gets lynched, and that's a scum mindset. Your language suggested to me not that you had a pool of players you were unwilling to lynch, it suggested to me you just wanted to direct the lynch on a random player because it doesn't matter to you so long as it isn't you. That's my perspective on it.

I phrased it as utility because I don't see you doing anything. This means you're unlikely to produce anything in the future that will help me read you. I could add LLD to the group I'd be willing to lynch for the same reason. I wish I had more confident reads. I could almost get excited about a reck wagon but not quite

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Katsuki

[Cephrir]

I clearly do actually

though i would be more inclined to give you your day if you weren't devoting 70% of your play to insulting me

[Cephrir]

nothung ive done this game is scum motivated.

i don't agree with this statement

unsubstantiated reads, fluff posting, refusing to explain reads when questioned and trying to convince everyone i'm a dipshit are perfectly scum motivated

[Cephrir]

Cephrir please stop that it is making me wonder if you are scum with Katsuki and this is all distancing prior to his unstoppable D2 fakeclaim.

I literally don't know if I can do that right now

[Cephrir]

I'm a great scum player

I just don't think you are

[Cephrir]

stop talking to me

[Cephrir]

it's done a pretty good job of changing my interest in this game from low to negative

[Cephrir]

^that vote is somewhat scary for some reason

[Cephrir]

cabd has been a useless lurksack regardless of alignment ever since he moved to chicago <----- he is telling the truth there. I don't know what to do with him, I mean having a role in which its utility is to get a player to vote themselves seems to me to be a negative utility scumrole but *shrug* set spec is not my thing. I don't like how he used it on a player that he has not even pushed and i am getting impatient with him not coming into the thread and explaining it.

Eh. It's a low utility something. I don't think it really means anything and I'm not gonna care about it.

tboner I have played with you when you been both alignments and what I am not seeing here is you sinking your teeth into the game which reminds me of upick song. you kept prevaricating until I rode you and even then you were meh until finally you fake-claimed a guilty on mine and nacho's hydra which was suicide. you have done nothing and continue to nothing but will post when you are under attack and defend yourself while...doing nothing. if you are town you need to come into the thread and razzle and dazzle us cos I am just sort of wanting to lynch you at this point.

This seems like a pretty decent assessment of what's going on from that slot!

Also, <3

I'm nit pushing you or any non-Cabd player because it's D1 and Cabd claimed and that should be it unless someone crumbs a daycop or innocent on Cabd.

Policy has absolutely changed the site meta before.

I remember when we used to play like that, but I feel like we stopped doing it for legitimate reasons. I remember a time when people would be yelled at for claiming off L-1. It was a simpler time; a better time. But that doesn't mean I'm going to necessarily advocate it here. Cabd really might be scum though (yes I'm aware he's been a lurksack for a while now and that's not alignment relevant).

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

Yeah, I changed back because my persona wasn't coming as naturally as it has in the past.

[Cephrir]

It's still terrifying how many people I'd be willing to lynch today

This game :/

[Cephrir]

3. mollie is being replaced, we need eddie to catch up...in a day?
-> This could be a strategic move from their team, btw, as a reason to not-vote, if either any of the lynches is on their partner, or if they just benefit from nolynch. if this is, very interesting move, team The Leftovers. Smooooooothh....

no

[Cephrir]

We still have a day.

VOTE: T-Bone

[Cephrir]

I'm very conflicted right now.

[Cephrir]

Iec, I stopped liking your opinions on the last page as much as I was liking them before. Please go back!

[Cephrir]

I have another flashwagon to try as soon as I figure out this one isn't working

[Cephrir]

man shos

you are just so wrong so consistently

:/

[Cephrir]

the ongoing games thing

that transcends alignment and win conditions

VOTE: reck

[Cephrir]

Is he scummy though

Is he actually

I think the wagon was too easy in the first place and I realize I contributed to it

[Cephrir]

I'll reread.

[Cephrir]

yep

it pretty much is

[Cephrir]

<tone: halfhearted>

notscience are you scum you seem like scum

[Cephrir]

if i vote everyone eventually i will vote scum and can pretend later that i was right

[Cephrir]

because i don't know who's scum and you're not doing jack shit along with the majority of the goddamn game

[Cephrir]

im really not enjoying this game in case anyone managed not to notice

[Cephrir]

i'm probably going to vote the wagon with the most votes in 8 hours or so :/

[Cephrir]

in before scum suicide bomber

[Cephrir]

scum already know you are scum**

[Cephrir]

being scum seems like a great reason to crumb something super indistinct

i cannot think of a power it is vital to use once and it doesn't matter if you get to do it more after that

[Cephrir]

also theres this thing called a scum roleblocker that makes this play really awful

[Cephrir]

to be honest i don't see what harm could possibly come from claiming it at this point since the maximum possible amount of damage has presumably already been done

unless, you know, it isn't real

[Cephrir]

that just tells me you were planning an incredible fakeclaim

why is cabd scum

[Cephrir]

if you want me to get pissed off again you're doing a really good job

[Cephrir]

again, i will beg you to bestow your brilliant wisdom upon me by explaining one solitary read

why is cabd scum o wise master

[Cephrir]

do you honestly think there is anything to be lost by claiming now

[Cephrir]

tier, your tone this game is not like it was in the poe game and it bothers me in a difficult to quantify manner

i don't think anyone thinks katsuki is town and isn't named iecerint

[Cephrir]

false

you aren't selfvoting

[Cephrir]

do you honestly think there is anything to be lost by claiming now

[Cephrir]

i'm not actually voting you right now

the reason i'm interested in you claiming is that i don't think there is a role that meets the specifications it would have to for your play to make sense