Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

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Post Post #1578 (isolation #0) » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:57 pm

Post by singersigner »

Yay! Seeing two of my teammates being recruited was sad, and even though larges aren't my favorite, I'm excited I actually get to play!

That being said, Empire didn't explain his read on TTH, but Zar's been filling me in with regards to major events so I can catch up quicker...I'm not really going to speculate on his reads since he's read the game in real time and I obviously haven't, except to say that UT is a pretty universal scum read with my team, and I'm personally paranoid about CDB based on our last game together. Ffery's probably gunna kill me for that comment. :shifty:

Also, I've read up on all of six pages of this game so far: first four, then from page 62 onward. I'll probably just ISO people and see where my team directs me and go from there? Anything else important people want me to comment on?
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Post Post #1594 (isolation #1) » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:49 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 1579, Bulbazak wrote:@Singer: Thoughts on Vezok and Gamma when you have the chance.

I believe vezok to be town. *shocking* He's never struck me as the kind of person to be able to pull off a fake claim very well, and even with coaching, I read him as genuinely believing he caught someone in a scummy act.

With regards to Gamma...you're gunna have to be more specific at this point. Vezok was relevant with regards to the game state and information I'm working with, and as far as I can tell...Gamma sure is...a player...

From what little I've read, it feels like TTH should be the lynch for today, so we actually have a flip and interactions to work with. We can talk ourselves into oblivion with how many people are "playing" this game. I know we're working hard on accuracy here, so I guess if anyone's super offended by the risk then they can make a more convincingly better suggestion?
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Post Post #1600 (isolation #2) » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:31 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 1517, Titus wrote:UNVOTE:

TTH wagon effective. No need for it anymore. If he vanishes again with no vla, my vote is going back.

We need to talk on some of those reads Mastina. Espy entered as a "need to sort" read. Also, your reads on me/GiF/DV suck. CDB gives me bad vibes because I am 95% sure his votes on towI get he has to do his own investigation and shoving GiF as town is really antitown since I cannot prove it.

So looking back, can you explain why your vote would only go back with another bout inactivity, if it was a pressure vote in the first place? Seems to me that would be more indicative of consistent inactivity, rather than scummy "oh shit better not get lynched" behavior. What makes it not scummy "oh shit better not get lynched" behavior now, especially in light of vezok's claim?

I agree that the TTH wagon shot up pretty quickly, but I haven't really seen anyone explain why that's such a bad thing right now, especially given the opportunity to have two lynches.
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Post Post #1608 (isolation #3) » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:02 pm

Post by singersigner »

Cheetory6 wrote:Again, with this notion that everyone on this wagon is trying to quicklynch TTH.
It's baffling to me that you're acting like this is anything but a pressurewagon.

To be honest, it's starting to look like the resistance to it is scum motivated, because scum think/know that's the
right way
to react to a wagon like that one. For clarification of how I'm describing "that one": quick and with limited interactions before doing so.

Preview Edit:
@Titus...I'll look back at more context, but when you say "I
wasn't in a hurry
to lynch him" that strays away from the idea that it was simply for pressure. Are you still surprised it took off given the circumstances with Antihero's replacement, Vezok's result, and your own pressure vote? They all seem like pretty varying reasons to vote the same person at the first sign of the opportunity to do so.

What about pressure voting anyone else...like ActionDan for example? From an activity overview perspective, Aronis also has that few posts, and Shadoweh, Gamma, mastin, vezok...all on the low end of posting.
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Post Post #1629 (isolation #4) » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:12 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 1618, mastin2 wrote:I feel horrible doing this, but I have to say it.
Empire's replace-out wasn't a town one.
singer's content is not town content.
That read's not a holdover of a read on Empire. I mean that singer's content simply isn't town, in addition to her slot not having been town in any of its iterations.

In post 1596, Bulbazak wrote:I have the same feelings regarding the TTH wagon as I did with the Shos wagon in Unbalanced 2. It's a bad lynch.
Then you should have the same feels about Esp as you did about Toon! :D

1. Why do you feel horrible for voicing your opinions/reads?
2. I'm not really going to argue how town or scum my content is as I don't really have any content to contribute right now with what little I've read and how far behind I am. If you'd like to read more into my posts than there is, I suppose that's your prerogative.
3. I need to interact with people to figure out the game and I don't see you positioning yourself in a way I can do that with you having shut down that flow of communication before it even started. Was this on purpose?

@Titus...I'm not really sure what you mean with your last post. Are you trying to suggest that I was saying "let's pressure more people" as opposed to deducing your motivation for not putting a blanket pressure vote on people producing low activity?

You're also going to have to explain "mean Titus" to me, since I don't recall ever actually playing in any games with you, and as far as I can tell, nothing in the last page should've been provoking enough to warrant any sort of aggressive response.
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Post Post #1631 (isolation #5) » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:16 pm

Post by singersigner »

I do acknowledge I've noticed Aronis receiving pressure lately, and don't negate the overall pressure people with low activity have gotten this game. My point was questioning Titus in particular, since TTH was the only vote Titus ever placed for pressure due to inactivity based on her ISO. My only goal was to clarify why.
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Post Post #1642 (isolation #6) » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:53 pm

Post by singersigner »

Cheetory6 wrote:Singer what do you think of Espeonage?

Uh, he hasn't posted since I started reading from the beginning (page 20), and the few posts he made in the last couple of pages were pretty negligible?

This might've been addressed already, but according to my team (Regfan), there's no role that justifies visiting one of the more universally town-read people in the game that can be proven the next day, etc. with regards to TTH. (Mina) It looks more like he's trying to save himself another day, and based on how many actions we can assume scum have, could use those to lie.

@Bulb...I'm not really sure what you're trying to say about me here. We have two lynches, but if you're arguing that your lynch would give us more information right now, then I'd be willing to look further into you. Someone specifically asked me about TTH, so that's where my attention landed. You're more than welcome to point me in a different direction, but until then, don't act like I made up what to comment on out of no where.
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Post Post #1673 (isolation #7) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:44 am

Post by singersigner »

unvote
for now.

I'm not really interested in a lynch until I'm all caught up. Preliminary town reads are Marquis, DeasVeil, vezok, and ActionDan. Preliminary gut is pinged by Shadoweh for her reaction to me grouping her in with players with objectively the lowest amounts of posts, mastin for denying me interactions while not explaining what she doesn't like which seems out of character for her, and...that's about as far as I've gotten with any sort of scum reads. Will wait to see what comes of my Bulb questioning and Titus' response.

@Bulb...let's not pretend TTH didn't heavily imply that it was a proveable role. I can't tell if you're confbiasing me by reading into that, white knighting the shit out of TTH, or just really trying to defend someone...
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Post Post #1749 (isolation #8) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:43 am

Post by singersigner »

Hi I'm back for a while, and this post by Shadoweh caught my eye. It's the same thing she did recently where she says something that resembles a stance, but doesn't actually commit to it. It's like she's waiting for it to gain traction first.

Now, I'm the first to admit that I'm very uncomfortable with my reads sometimes, but if it becomes a habit throughout the day (which from the post I linked, to most recently, seems to be), then it's indicative of another problem.

@Titus...did you still want to address any of my previous statements or my question about your motivation for pressure-voting TTH but no one else?

Preview Edit:
@Bulb...you're right! I don't really see any strong cases for anyone being scum right now. UT actually said it the best: it's day one and we have hardly anything to go on. We have no assumptions of interactions or motivations because *surprise* there's no flip to work with! There are only a few mild soft-claims with regards to Minor Night One actions, and that's about it. As far as I can tell, everyone has just put out the ~feels~ or the ~bad vibes~ based on 40 people trying to play one game at a time, which guarantees dissonance.

To be honest, Gamma has been the only one to articulate anything substantial since I joined and I actually really like what he has to say based on my most recent interactions with you. Reminds me of when you were an SE in that one game with the newbies and things like such as.

Also @Titus...do you typically drunk post in games, particularly on demand or as a specific alignment?
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Post Post #1768 (isolation #9) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:21 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 1757, Titus wrote:@Singer, I did.

Also, I do drunk post, regardless of alignment. ABR wanted to see it and see reactions and I generally am trying to be a little more LOL ok at the start of the game considering we don't have as much to form conclusions on.

Are you saying you did respond to this, or you still want to? If the former, the closest I can find to commenting on that are and .

Also, with regards to your statement that we don't have as much to form conclusions on, are you referring to within the first few pages pages of the game, or at that game state in which ABR requested you drunk posted? Because at that game state, there were plenty of things to comment on, more specifically the concept of the Bane/Boon votes/wagons. You recently told UT he should be using those to form his conclusions, so what reactions were you hoping to gain by getting drunk, broadcasting that you were asked to do so, and then following it up with this explanation?

Preview Edit:
I understand you're a lawyer and totally respect the way you're defining "leading question" within that context, but within the confounds of this game, I disagree with how you're interpreting it. I think you're arguing semantics and projecting what you interpreted as a leading question without trying to infer or discuss the motivation behind it, which is the same mistake you're accusing Gamma of doing.
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Post Post #1791 (isolation #10) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:15 am

Post by singersigner »

Cheetory6 wrote:
Cheetory6 wrote:Why not vote for Shadow then singer?
In post 1673, singersigner wrote:
unvote
for now.

I'm not really interested in a lynch until I'm all caught up.


Titus wrote:That one I did miss Singer. Sorry I thought you were referring to the massive list of people you wanted to pressure.

Are you trying to suggest that I was saying "let's pressure more people" as opposed to deducing your motivation for not putting a blanket pressure vote on people producing low activity?

You're also going to have to explain "mean Titus" to me, since I don't recall ever actually playing in any games with you, and as far as I can tell, nothing in the last page should've been provoking enough to warrant any sort of aggressive response.


Yes.

I tend to be overly aggressive and push too loud once I have a suspect. People have told me to tone it down but when I see really suspicious behavior I find it difficult.

That's a shame. What I'm understanding is that you disagree that you were being inconsistent with your claim to pressure-voting?

We can recap the sequence of events if you'd like:
In you claim that pressuring Mastina is good, after alluding to wanting to or being willing to vote her in both and , but never doing so.
Then in most recent history, you claim that voting for TTH is for pressure in , , and , even so far as to chastise the wagon even though that was your
goal with voting for pressure
, which is about where I found your inconsistency with regards to pressure-voting, and consequentially you fantasizing my call to question others' activity as opposed to your inconsistency. I can see why you wouldn't want to assume this was about you, but it's pretty anti-town to conclude about what it was really about before trying to engage with me about my motivations, especially when you're putting words in my mouth.

@Cheetory...now that I've read about half the game, with regards to Espeonage, he tends to post in bursts which I've seen be a way for scum to feign activity, coupled with his ignorance of the setup, which followed Tammy's. If either of them were lying, I'd say it was the second, who saw townreads come from the first, though I have a hard time believing Espy would be coached to do that by his scum team, especially if he was late into the game and needed to know how to proceed with the accumulating pressure on him. There's not a lot of content in the beginning of the game, but most recently when I've been able to interact with people in real time, his posts seem genuine, especially with regards to thinking something good could come out of nothing. Unless I missed it, it didn't look like there was any pressure to claim his action, and in my experience, unsolicited defenses of night actions either come from white knighting scum or genuine town. I read it as genuine.

My meta on him is thin at best, as I don't recall ever playing with him, though.

Preview Edit:
@Titus...do you often rely on your inflated sense of authority to control the direction of the game? This is the third time you've done so since I joined, while at the beginning of the game you claimed to not want to do so. Not gunna lie, it vaguely reads as scum who's losing control and is trying to bully people into "the right way."

Also, with regards to fakeclaiming vig, Zar had brought that up in our PT but like Titus said, felt it would be more beneficial to take it on a claim-by-claim basis before making it a public point.
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Post Post #1798 (isolation #11) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:35 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 1795, Titus wrote:@Singer,

Yeah, I did chastize the TTH wagon because TTH was posting, thus mission accomplished. I don't get sheeped easy. Your team, if they played with me regularly, would know that. There is no inconsistency there. Pressure, get what I wanted, move on. Me, by myself, doesn't get much. Yet, you do raise an interesting point. Why did the wagon on TTH take off like a rocket but the one on Mastina that I tried to push get nowhere?

Also, I don't like the tone your using... "fantasizing" and "anti-town to conclude". I can read a pargraph or two and determine motivations from it. This sounds more like an attempt to discredit than it does at serious analysis.

"Inflated sense of authority", why don't you tell me how you really feel? I don't have an inflated sense of authority. I have an enhanced stubbornness regarding right and wrong. I'm trying to mellow a bit on that but I'm not going to have us flounder and chase our tails.

It was absolutely an attempt to discredit
this particular argument
because you literally put words in my mouth as the exact moment I was pressuring your intentions. It looked/felt like deflection.

I do feel as though you think you have the ability to bully people by talking down to them like "now, now, don't make mean Titus come out and spank you."

With regards to the TTH wagon versus the Mastina wagon...you tell me? You never actually voted for Mastina, yet voted for TTH right out of the gate. I won't argue your ability to be influential or not as I'm not familiar with it, but pressuring for activity wasn't the only reason given for voting TTH, so I'd say that's hardly the same kind of influence you should be worried about. You're acting like the wagon should've immediately dissipated as soon as you unvoted even though people weren't voting for the same reasons, even though you don't think you're that influential...so...that's not really sheeping...
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Post Post #1800 (isolation #12) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:37 am

Post by singersigner »

Ahhh, anyway, I feel like this is taking a turn for the worse right now and I still need to read about 30 pages, so if you can admit that you either misinterpreted my assessment that you were being inconsistent with your pressure instead of actually calling to pressure the low activity, or were purposefully ignoring it, it would make this argument (aka the point) a lot easier.
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Post Post #1820 (isolation #13) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:05 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 1801, Titus wrote:@Singer,

Mastina announced VLa. TTH didn't. My problem is with the TTH wagon taking off at all. There wasn't much of any reason given to vote TTH but yet people wanted him to claim his role. That's asisine.

That's not me bullying people. People know this is me trying to be nice. I'm using that so people get a gauge of my emotional state since I suck at conveying it normally.

Fair enough. I'll read it over more thoroughly in context when I get to that point in the thread and give my unbiased comments (as possible) without trying to needle my way into a conversation I was only marginally understanding of in order to feel useful. :]
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Post Post #1841 (isolation #14) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:12 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 1827, fferyllt wrote:
In post 1578, singersigner wrote:Ffery's probably gunna kill me for that comment. :shifty:


Do you want me to explain why the comment doesn't make me want to kill you?


Nacho says "hi"!

Our Empire read had already softened considerably as I mentioned earlier.

Singer hasn't changed that.

Moving the slot up to town.

More reads later today.

Um...kinda, yeah! Unless you're referring to the fact that you're confirmed town and can't do that within the confines of the game?

In post 1831, Shadoweh wrote:A lot of this day phase has already been slow because so many of our talkers are V/LA. As much as I want to lynch CDB (and I do, a whole lot still), he's V/LA until the 17th. Wouldn't it be better to wait until he's here for the second lynch?

Wow singer, you're right, thats so weird of me to ask questions like that, trying to determine what the majority wants is not something I do on Day 1 ever for sure. You objectively avoided answering my question. You also didn't have Titus in your scum reads, but you've been making it a point since the moment you replaced in to harrass her with discrediting statements, RE: 'why didn't you pressure insert this random list of people'. Titus is the most fucking obvtown person talking right now and I've already thrown my torch behind supporting her. Would you say you're waiting to see if there's any traction on lynching me? Suck my obvtowny balls, put your money where your mouth is. :giggle: Your other scumread, mastin, is also someone who expressed you're probably scum. Do you just think you're so special the entire scumteam is raving to pile on top of you?

ffery: I'm trying to ask this objectively without being mad that you posted that while I was writing this. What has singer done that looks good?

Well...ok...not really sure where you're going with this post but let me see if I can parse it out...
1. What question?
2. I do not have Titus is my scum reads because I felt like there was too much clouding my judgement that I wanted to sus out first. She was also the only one to really engage with me consistently at the time I was reading last night, so I would think that's why it looks like there's a lot of attention there, wouldn't you? Unfortunately, Mastina is gone on the weekends and hasn't been back to respond to my posts. :(
3. Let me be clear...I will 100% support a lynch on you when I'm done reading up on the game. I don't need to "see if there's support" for it. If there's none, there's none, but I'm not hiding behind a thinly-veiled wall of "well what do
you
think we should do..." which can also be interpreted as buddying.
4. Um, well, I tend to let people stroke my ego so when someone disagrees with my alignment through no fault of my own, I tend to think they're scummy for it!
5. I like odd numbers.

@DeasVail...he's kind of a token policy target in most games I've seen him in (*UT*) but I've heard he's easy to read so I'm not really interested in him. He's not really playing like someone who's worried about being lynched, which I feel is more likely to come from town who won't hurt their team as much as a scumlynch would hurt theirs.

@Aronis...that seems like cherry picking. Do you actually think Titus is scummy for putting in that effort?
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Post Post #1846 (isolation #15) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:10 pm

Post by singersigner »

It was not smart to admit that, Tammy.
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Post Post #1852 (isolation #16) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:18 pm

Post by singersigner »

That's irrelevant. As town, scum shouldn't know what information you did or didn't have with regards to role PMs, sample or otherwise.

Hence, as town, it would be a mistake to admit anything like that unsolicited.
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Post Post #1856 (isolation #17) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:24 pm

Post by singersigner »

Whatever. Tammy who do you/your team think are scum?
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Post Post #1864 (isolation #18) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:51 pm

Post by singersigner »

So what this conversation if you weren't going to bother posting anything related to reading someone. That looked like you were just trying to cause a distraction or post a filler or something. Ugh.
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Post Post #1872 (isolation #19) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:11 pm

Post by singersigner »

Um...

@UT...when you said you forgot that Ffery was confirmed town, does that strike you as something one alignment would do over the other, or just a generic mistake? I'm going to explain my thoughts on that lest someone mistakes that for a trick question...

As town, my priorities are finding scum; however, in the absence of an ability to do so, town hunting could be considered equally important. In this particular instance, with the locked thread, the public mistake, the missed hours of game time...all kind of flashing red lights to what's going on, don't you think? Because of this, I have a
seriously
hard time believing it was just an oversight.

So let me explain why I think this is more likely to come from scum...

AS SCUM, you're trying to trick the town, or throw shit around, or blend in, or make enough noise that people get distracted, or whatever scum-playing tactic one might have, right? It's my theory that a scumUT was more concentrated on trying to pressure/find little indescrepencies with one of the most recent posts (probably didn't matter who the poster was) that could potentially thrust someone else into negative limelight.

His priority didn't read as "is this person scum" it reads "is this person scummy."

Preview Edit:
lol, it's k, yeah that was directed at Aronis, and should've said "so was" not "so what" but I digress...
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Post Post #1874 (isolation #20) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:20 pm

Post by singersigner »

I believe you! And your timing!
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Post Post #1876 (isolation #21) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:28 pm

Post by singersigner »

I'm not very good at sarcasm. :(
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Post Post #1895 (isolation #22) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:18 pm

Post by singersigner »

Um ok so my cat walked across my laptop and turned my screen sideways so I'm getting a bit of a head/neckache reading right now but I'll be back when someone tells me how to fix it. I'm on page 32 right now, but I can keep following along with current posts on my phone (just don't want to read 30 pages' worth of posts on it).

Ugh...I'm so annoyed. -_-

Also liked TSO calling out Bulb for his deleted post comment...aaaaand...yeah I think everyone else is kinda up in the air until I keep reading and get a better overall feel of the game. I also missed an entire day of The Good Wife for you guys so...you're welcome.
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Post Post #1905 (isolation #23) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:34 pm

Post by singersigner »

1. Ah, that. Well, I did say I put everyone who had less than 50 posts on that list. I felt the only one who wasn't explained very well was Mastina, but then the clarification was sufficient enough for me.
2. I don't understand your last sentence, but I think you can appropriately infer by my stronger scum reads that I'm not interested in lynching Titus. I am in uncharted territory with many of you, so I'm really confused by your reaction to my testing the waters with Titus. That being said, somewhere on page 30 or 31 she mentions again how she doesn't want to be relied on, so it'd be nice if you could explain where exactly I'm out of line in saying she seems to think people have some sort of dependency on her.
3. Um, ok. Well, it's not like I have some crazy way of making people see the light, but I can say what I can to direct them towards where I think the light is. It's true, by the end of my read, when I've said my peace, I might not be convincing enough with my ultimate preference. I think it would be foolish and anti-town not to express those thoughts anyway.
4. Not that this is going to help from your perspective, but the last game I played (with Ffery), I admitted I dropped suspicion on people who were willing to trust my alignment, which ultimately stemmed from a couple of previous games I was disappointed by my near-sightedness. It's not a gimmick and I'm not really sure how it relates to Marquis yet.
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Post Post #1906 (isolation #24) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:37 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 1904, Aronis wrote:VOTE: singersigner

I just didn't feel like her scumreads were legit or genuine and after reading Shadoweh's last post it solidified what I was thinking.

Not legit scumreads?!?

Lol.

Walk me through this. What about my reads are disingenuious?

Who do you think is scum (ignore your current vote on me for a hot second)?
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Post Post #1907 (isolation #25) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:10 pm

Post by singersigner »

@Ffery...Regfan would like me to remind you to clarify your town read on Titus.

He would also like me to pass along his reads list...I'm not really sure how to do that without actually C/Ping it, so...

Let's just say that these reads more or less go in descending order of towniness:

Vezok ***
DV ***
Cheer ***
[Gap]
TSO ***
Tammy ***
[Gap]
Aronis
Bulb
GIF *
Marquis *
Esp.
Titus *
Mastin
UT *
CDB ***
Gamma *

AD
[Gap]
TTH
Shadoweh ***

[Gap] = a significant difference between the strength of those reads
bolded = conflicted/null reads of no particular order
* = how strongly I personally agree with both the read and the placement of the read
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Post Post #1908 (isolation #26) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:18 pm

Post by singersigner »

Also, Ffery/Tammy, could you comment particularly on those in bold?
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Post Post #1922 (isolation #27) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:28 pm

Post by singersigner »

Now, now, Mastin, you can't really go and accuse me of "insisting" anything when I simply stated once that after three posts of very little analysis, I didn't have much to offer. You may think the comment about having plenty to offer after four pages was just an aside, but even with that you're putting a huge burden of proficiency on me to provide something within hours of replacing into a 67ish? page game at that point. I've proven since then that I'm not hiding under excuses or trying to coast.

With regards to the content you felt I had given at that point, what exactly did you have a problem with?

And I wasn't saying you were shutting down much discussion, just the one pertinent to me when you offered such a brief opinion about how basically everything surrounding my slot was scum with no implication of being willing to continue a line of questioning that would allow me to clarify or ease any issues people have been having. I feel like scum would prefer me to stay stuck in a shady position as opposed to being willing to accept a new outlook from a fresh set of eyes after unfortunate circumstances.

I understand I'm biased here, but it's not really in anyone's best interest to assume the worst at this point.
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Post Post #1926 (isolation #28) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:42 pm

Post by singersigner »

Like...you say that...and yet...I really don't think you
mean
it...

In all seriousness, though, I really need you to be held accountable for the specifics, particularly the three-four posts I made before the first time you addressed me.
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Post Post #1930 (isolation #29) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:31 pm

Post by singersigner »

You're...not...high on our scum list? You're mutually read as "whaaaaat is this person" by myself and Regfan. I did express a paranoia at the beginning of my replacement but you've since been gone as I've been playing catchup so I haven't really had time to cultivate a better read. Hence, the bolded "null in no particular order" read.
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Post Post #1947 (isolation #30) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:39 am

Post by singersigner »

I like less spam posting! It's making it easier to catch up. :]

@UT...how do you feel about my recent debate with Titus based on your ? I didn't see you comment on it at all even though it seems to be something you were also cautious of at one point.
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Post Post #1950 (isolation #31) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:12 pm

Post by singersigner »

Espeonage apparently didn't know Ffery was confirmed town, either. -_-

Why does it seem like there are two people playing this game and everyone else is either just coasting or hiding... :(
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Post Post #1957 (isolation #32) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:17 pm

Post by singersigner »

Pages 36-37 seem to have a lot of GiF and CDB deferring to their team about reads, but then GiF said he's playing this game independently (implying little help from his team), and CDB is falling back on CES a lot and not forming his own stances. I'd like to see more of a catch-up from CDB than a few responses to recent posts before making my own judgement.

I'd still be willing to lynch Shadoweh or mastin, but I'm also willing to lynch CDB, Espeonage, TTH, or Aronis (in that order) for a general apathy and not really reading them as pro-town at this point.

Preview Edit:
Mina's read is based thinking she can usually read him as town, and since she isn't really town-reading him, he falls short of her expectations by feeling fake with his read on us and a general lack of detailed reads (as I've outlined earlier with relying on CES to speak for him). The most recent pages make me feel that "cautious/safe" vibe, as well.
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Post Post #1958 (isolation #33) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:25 pm

Post by singersigner »

Can we also talk about my post with regards to both UT and now Espeonage not knowing Ffery was confirmed town? Only two people commented on it and one of them is voting me so you'll excuse me if I don't really take his opinion seriously.
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Post Post #1964 (isolation #34) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:02 pm

Post by singersigner »

I changed my mind. I don't want to lynch mastin.

Page 46.
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Post Post #1968 (isolation #35) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:44 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 968, Espeonage wrote:
In post 966, GuyInFreezer wrote:Oh btw fery is conftown.


Ok, wasn't aware.
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Post Post #1974 (isolation #36) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:56 pm

Post by singersigner »

Titus what do you think of TTH now that she's "back" from your pressure? You postulated that she could be either a threat or a benefit to town...have you been able to parse through her now that 80% of her posts have been made in the last two days?

Preview Edit:
omgtammyandIaresynched
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Post Post #2003 (isolation #37) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:57 pm

Post by singersigner »

My cat is perpetuating my alcoholism!

First he's in my lap, invoking the "cat rule."
Then he gets up, leans his head against my arm and tries to fall asleep upright.
Then I told him he's the reason I couldn't get another glass of wine and he left.

Page 51. It's getting harder and harder to keep reading the back and forths, but I only have like 12-13 more pages before i'm caught up to where I was. Same reads apply. Wishing we weren't penalized for being wrong with policy lynches. :(
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Post Post #2012 (isolation #38) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:14 pm

Post by singersigner »

Ok, seeing as I have 10 pages to go and a few glasses of wine in, I would like to formally ask Titus and Tammy to post about half as much as they are posting! If each of you posted on even the third highest level of posters (which is about 120 posts I believe), then the game would be about 15 pages shorter! WOAH. I also want to say that I'm not discouraging posting in general, just that with the quantity of posts, this caters to scum heavily, and I'd really like to 1. NOT do that, because this game shouldn't be any harder for town to find scum within 81 pages as it is, and 2. allow for others to respond and engage first. It's really hard to get an accurate feel for who's hiding and who's not when everyone feels overshadowed by the two of you. Don't get me wrong, ILY! but this catch up was really hard and slow going and I was trying to do my team justice by not doing my normal "half-hearted" catchup of only ISOing the mod and any relevant events, while also keeping up with everything else going on (there have been *count it* 14 pages! since I replaced in two days ago--ok I'll take away the two-ish pages I was personally engaging with Titus et all to get a better feel of the game).

That being said, I'm not going to fight for a lynch, as I hardly ever do on D1, seeing as I take the UT approach of WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING! I've stated my preferences, and will vote as soon as I read the last ten pages, and then we'll go from there! Thanks for being patient with me guez! <3
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Post Post #2013 (isolation #39) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:21 pm

Post by singersigner »

fffff

I really hate long paragraphy posts but I've got a pretty good buzz going and can't be fucked to edit. -_-

ALSO. FFERY. Regfan has been bugging me all night to figure out how to paraphrase the things he's like you to address so here goes:
With regards to Titus...I actually just addressed this! The post count/questioning have been interpreted to be slightly anti-town and he doesn't like her Bane0ing stance...count you elaborate on a non meta-based read of her?
Aronis...he likes #887, 14433, and 1372
Bulb...I'm gunna edit this out because I don't really agree with the town read so much!
Marquis...was paranoid, now he's not...super enlightening...
Mastin...had a town read, then didn't, now he does again, particularly the DV scum read!
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Post Post #2014 (isolation #40) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:22 pm

Post by singersigner »

Um scratch that, you asked him, not the other way around. >_>
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Post Post #2016 (isolation #41) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:34 pm

Post by singersigner »

I believe you asked for clirification on the bolded?
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Post Post #2018 (isolation #42) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:10 pm

Post by singersigner »

um...I thgink you asked him to explain a few of his reads?

...

this is awkward...
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Post Post #2031 (isolation #43) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:42 am

Post by singersigner »

My team is scumreads CDB but not GiF so much, so before I made a judgement call on the person my team is scumreading, I wanted to see more.

Mastin seems so adament that I'm scum regardless of very little evidence to support that read. Her catch ups that are in short bursts give a townier feel in that they're not being overly wordy like I'm used to from her, which makes it feel like the priority is on getting the point across, not in convincing someone she's right. So...mostly gut!

I'll have to elaborate on the mastin/DV/Regfan read thing when I get back to my computer, since I've been told not to be so meager when relating his thoughts. It's really hard not to C/P but accurately relay my team's thoughts. -_-

Ten pages to go!
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Post Post #2032 (isolation #44) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:39 am

Post by singersigner »

I did it!

Anyway, Regfan's explanation on Mastin:
Beginning was town for what felt like something we're not really going to get into right now.
Then leaned scum because she was inactive in this game while posting around the site (specifically MD).
And now her stance on DV and insisting everyone else is wrong seems town.

vote: Shadoweh
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Post Post #2038 (isolation #45) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:28 am

Post by singersigner »

Why would thag influence my catch up? That seems like a really silly reason not to vote for me if I was your biggest scum read.
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Post Post #2041 (isolation #46) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:06 pm

Post by singersigner »

Oh my gosh! You're so fuckin right! How could I have possibly missed that on my phone! Wow must be scumzorz! Not because I haven't already projected exactly how I've felt about her! But because I'm so nice, let me quote it again for you!

In post 1673, singersigner wrote:
unvote
for now.

I'm not really interested in a lynch until I'm all caught up. Preliminary town reads are Marquis, DeasVeil, vezok, and ActionDan. Preliminary gut is pinged by Shadoweh for her reaction to me grouping her in with players with objectively the lowest amounts of posts, mastin for denying me interactions while not explaining what she doesn't like which seems out of character for her, and...that's about as far as I've gotten with any sort of scum reads. Will wait to see what comes of my Bulb questioning and Titus' response.

@Bulb...let's not pretend TTH didn't heavily imply that it was a proveable role. I can't tell if you're confbiasing me by reading into that, white knighting the shit out of TTH, or just really trying to defend someone...

In post 1749, singersigner wrote:Hi I'm back for a while, and this post by Shadoweh caught my eye. It's the same thing she did recently where she says something that resembles a stance, but doesn't actually commit to it. It's like she's waiting for it to gain traction first.

Now, I'm the first to admit that I'm very uncomfortable with my reads sometimes, but if it becomes a habit throughout the day (which from the post I linked, to most recently, seems to be), then it's indicative of another problem.


It's better than an Espy vote because this is a universal scum read for my entire team and we'd really like to see her eat rope. :]
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Post Post #2043 (isolation #47) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:13 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2035, Cheetory6 wrote:My 'esp push'? I don't really see how I'm pushing for Esp right now.
I liked mastin's vote, asked espe questions, liked the responses to those questions and then haven't found something I feel is worth pushing more atm so I haven't voted someone else. If espe was in serious danger of being lynched right now, maybe I'd switch, but I don't see the point in unvoting and I'm not feeling particularly confident in my read on Bulba anymore, who I was focused on for a while. What exactly in there is an opportunistic esp push?

How can you say that you don't see how you're pushing for Esp right now when the very first thing you asked me was to comment on him, and then a follow-up reminder as I was still reading. Esp has been the second-highest wagon today, so it seems pretty weird that you're now falling back on a general sense of apathy with your vote being parked there even after you claimed you weren't particularly sold on it anymore.
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Post Post #2045 (isolation #48) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:19 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2042, Cheetory6 wrote:I didn't call you scum for missing my question.
You can be defensive over a naked vote that I haven't even elaborated on yet though if you'd like though. :)

You're voting for me so I can only assume you think I'm scum somehow. Crazy assumption!

Point being, you've had to remind me to respond to you previously without a vote on me, so there wasn't exactly a point to prove with me overlooking that comment. To assume that is to negate the shallowness of voting me immediately after Gamma and excusing it as "waiting til you're done catching up." Like. Oh, "let's wait til she's finished reading all 81 PAGES of this shit (wasting not only my time, but yours), and THEN lynch her!" :roll:

Preview Edit:
I'm bringing this up now because you literally just posted it in response to Gamma...how am I supposed to bring it up before he asked you about it? :igmeou:
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Post Post #2048 (isolation #49) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:38 pm

Post by singersigner »

Voting me is rude and I get pissy when people are wrong. :(

But you're right, it wasn't an excuse to vote me because I can tell you were just waiting for me to catch up (in hindsight I did think it was weird you kept asking me...).

I'm finally interacting in real time because I actually have a better grasp on the game now, and right when that happens, it seems like everything slowed down. I've been waiting for people to respond to me or make some sort of gesture all day, because I'm finally ready to play this game and get more information.

Gamma's vote actually upsets me more than yours because I know him irl and I feel like he should know better? Skeevy is a pretty non-committal way of describing my posting style, which while I'm biased, doesn't really describe it accurately?
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Post Post #2050 (isolation #50) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:47 pm

Post by singersigner »

Is there a particular order you think people should be lynched in Titus? I'm not gunna lie, if I'm gunna get lynched no matter what, I'd really like for it to be second.
(I'm actually a littler surprised there's still so much dissonance at this point in the day because of the double lynch)
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Post Post #2051 (isolation #51) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:50 pm

Post by singersigner »

Ahhh, that was a stupid question since you said you've go for whatever wagon was bigger. Nevermind.
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Post Post #2084 (isolation #52) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:41 pm

Post by singersigner »

I don't like that because I really don't think Gamma's scum despite not having a good reason to vote me.

@Titus...there's a difference between discrediting you and discrediting your argument which was wrong and hypocritical. I'm not sure why you've continued to overlook that. My predecessors don't really need to agree with my positions, nor I theirs and it's really weird that you're even calling on that as an issue. The only one you can even compare it to is Zar since he's still playing TM, but I won't/don't sheep my teammates unconditionally unless I have no choice.

Re: provoking me...can I make it easier for you to understand me? I'm not really sure how my communication has failed since I've been voted.

@GiF...that Gamma vote sucks only because you're using "proxy" as an excuse.
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Post Post #2087 (isolation #53) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:09 pm

Post by singersigner »

Why!
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Post Post #2089 (isolation #54) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:26 pm

Post by singersigner »

Good question.

My biggest problem with her is the juxtaposition between her insistence that she doesn't have control or sway over the town/game state, but makes comments suggesting strongly that she does and believes that she does. That, and the whole posting 3xs+ which is serious overkill. -_-

Otherwise it's really hard to parse through her self-assessment that she's posting differently at her teammates advice. It seems genuine? Though, fuck, I feel like I remember people getting upset with Marquis for purposefully posting differently, and don't remember anyone calling her out for it. I'll have to look back at that...
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Post Post #2102 (isolation #55) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:40 pm

Post by singersigner »

Gamma that looks an awful lot like selective meta to fit your agenda. Your most recent example is three years ago, and the only scum game (meta mafia) was a grand total of 35 posts.

I know you have more recent, up-to-date, and accurate meta, so it's making me even more uncomfortable that you even negate it with "Fuuuck meta."
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Post Post #2105 (isolation #56) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:08 pm

Post by singersigner »

Oh! Aaaaand. Verdict is still out on Titus. I really did find inconsistencies with her, but her latest post seems to explain it the best and pretty genuine, so my waffly read of her thus far is put in the do-not-touch-right-now pile.
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Post Post #2201 (isolation #57) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:20 am

Post by singersigner »

@Gamma...you definitely have more recent town meta on me, which was more the point, and I honestly haven't been scum (save my most recent newbie game) since the 2012 Scummies Invitational, which was also almost two years ago. I think your statement that you hate meta but are using it as a soft support/case/whathaveyou on me is really inconsistent and self-serving.

Now that I think of it, of the 40-50 games I've played, I think I have about five scum games under my belt. >_>

@Titus...so I agree with your stance on hydra dissonance being an issue, but I fail to see where it's particularly relevant here. You're pursuing it with a confirmed town so I'm not really seeing the endgame with this argument...

@GiF...why would ika replacing into your spot make it another mislynch spot? If it's substantiated I can see your thought process, but, that logick train I'm not really following, which seems to be the basis of your town read on CDB.

@AD...I know you're a particularly ornery player when it comes to working well with others by participating even a little bit, but it's pretty much an excuse to get yourself lynched/vigged/whathaveyou. It's not fair in a normal game, let alone when you have a whole team counting on you to step up. Despite my gut townread on you, I have no issue lynching you because of it.
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Post Post #2209 (isolation #58) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:08 am

Post by singersigner »

Titus wrote:
@Singer - I literally just answered that in the post before you asked me, and then you just asked GiF a question that mirrors one I asked (why would ika be mislynchable?). If you're so uncertain on me, why do I get the feeling you are ignoring my posts?


@FFery, After today's first lynch, I would like to try an exercise that has us work together. We will post our townreads. Those who we match on, we do not lynch or push. Then we each toggle down until we get to four remaining players. We then agree the second lynch is within those four and put our town weight behind it.
I would like to stop sucking as widely townread plus force myself to work with people even if I do not always agree with their reads and this seems like a method to do that.


As for the hydra thing, I will need time to try and get your perspective. I will review what you have said in more detail.
I specifically asked you that because it doesn't really answer my question. You seem to be pursuing Ffery for "hydra dissonance" (as much as can be done in TM), but where was this concern with other people using their teammates as a fallback for their reads/disagreements?

And can you please stop with the AtE with regards to your skills and ability? It's clouding the way I feel about you.
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Post Post #2217 (isolation #59) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:15 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2202, Gammagooey wrote:^and i think you attacking the individual games I posted for your town meta is more than a little dumb and arbitrary when one of them I brought up specifically because Nacho was in it with you and the other was just another large theme I remembered being in with you.

the point of bringing up those games isn't 'omg i think singer is scum because she's playing differently' which is always garbage, it's more like *i think singer's tone doesn't really seem like she's scumhunting and these are some games that i have personally seen singer play in (i was in the dead qt for a chunk of nacho's game with you) that helps to show my background with singer and why I think it's not just a playstyle nulltell*

If you had any bit of recent meta on me, I wouldn't be arguing with you. The difference in those games are circumstantially different, particularly the scum game, which is the only one I really attacked anyway.

Point being, you might have that experience with me, but anyone who's played with me recently
at all
knows my town game is vastly different now than it was three years ago (so much so that in just about every newbie game I've played recently, I comment on it at one point or another), so bringing up outdated meta while simultaneously saying "fuck meta" is really only fitting your agenda.

If you read literally any game of mine in the last year you'd see a
significant
difference in the way I approach mafia now, which you seem to be blindly approaching/not acknowledging.

fferyllt wrote:he's asking others to give him assignments. There is plenty of surface data in the thread that would suggest how to prioritize, and doing so - prioritizing - would be the town thing to do IMO.

Agreed. If he were replacing in I would understand this initially, but he has a responsibility to keep up/follow along on his own merit. To give us the responsibility of providing him direction is severely lacking town-motivation unless he can properly supply a reason for doing so.

Preview Edit:
@Titus...I'm going to ask you nicely to shut up. I'm not saying you're trying to paint Ffery as scum, pls tia (literally have never said that before but it felt good!). I'm saying you're pursuing an unnecessary line of questioning that you haven't proven to support this current game state. You know she's town. What does her opinion/stance on hydra's have anything to do with the game right now?
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Post Post #2219 (isolation #60) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:20 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2212, Untrod Tripod wrote:I've never seen singer post this much in a mafia game and it's freaking me out

*shrug* I really wanted to play TM and when I have what's essentially free reign over my own line of questioning, I try to take advantage of it.

I did post the majority of the last game we played together after Glork was wrong D1, did you not know that? (in case it wasn't obvious to anyone else, I was hydraing with Glork)
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Post Post #2239 (isolation #61) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:08 am

Post by singersigner »

With it narrowed down like that, I think you guys have a ~75% chance of getting at least 50% of the scum team!
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Post Post #2249 (isolation #62) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:16 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2230, Titus wrote:@Gif, If Espy is scum, who are his buddies?
If Espy town, who are the scums?

What's the point of this question? You could basically substitute any player's name and come up with the same results.

Titus wrote:I could lynch AD or Aronis, the rest I don't like.

Yeah, I'd really like to lynch AD now which makes me les sad.
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Post Post #2251 (isolation #63) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:19 am

Post by singersigner »

Because you have a different way of approaching the game than me and I'm trying to work with you.
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Post Post #2256 (isolation #64) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:37 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2254, Titus wrote:
In post 2251, singersigner wrote:Because you have a different way of approaching the game than me and I'm trying to work with you.


Constantly asking me why is not effective. Instead pick a read and advocate or put out a strategy. Otherwise it feels like nitpicking.

I am nitpicking. Despite having 380 posts, I'm still having a hard time getting into your head and understanding your logick train/motivations.
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Post Post #2258 (isolation #65) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:20 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2205, Titus wrote:@FFery, After today's first lynch, I would like to try an exercise that has us work together. We will post our townreads. Those who we match on, we do not lynch or push. Then we each toggle down until we get to four remaining players. We then agree the second lynch is within those four and put our town weight behind it. I would like to stop sucking as widely townread plus force myself to work with people even if I do not always agree with their reads and this seems like a method to do that

Btw, this is pretty scum motivated, btw. It allows scumyou to basically put all your partners in the town pile and have them out of the viable lynches for the day, while displacing the responsibility of your reads on "trying to get better" instead of "trying to play the game as well/accurately as possible."
And once again, you're calling on your influence over the town even though you've previously stated you don't want to have that influence and/or you don't think you have it! Which is it??


My team also collectively thinks TTH should claim now before the possibility of putting together a fake claim tomorrow based on results/actions of partner.

Regfan will embellish on his Shadoweh read (past what I've posted already) later.
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Post Post #2261 (isolation #66) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:02 pm

Post by singersigner »

The way I see it, no one is working together right now, no one is compromising, people are melting into the night, not being held accountable, and being stubborn about who they want lynched when, based on the fact that after 80 pages we still have 6-7 different people being voted. Your appeal to someone who can't even vote is lofty at best.

How can I flail when I'm discussing the motivations of someone who isn't even voting me? I'm in no danger of getting lynched. I'm not shouting at you. I'm not marginalizing you. I'm simply pointing out where I saw the flaw in your plan and asking you to acknowledge it.
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Post Post #2274 (isolation #67) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:25 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2269, fferyllt wrote:
In post 2261, singersigner wrote:The way I see it, no one is working together right now, no one is compromising, people are melting into the night, not being held accountable, and being stubborn about who they want lynched when, based on the fact that after 80 pages we still have 6-7 different people being voted. Your appeal to someone who can't even vote is lofty at best.

How can I flail when I'm discussing the motivations of someone who isn't even voting me? I'm in no danger of getting lynched. I'm not shouting at you. I'm not marginalizing you. I'm simply pointing out where I saw the flaw in your plan and asking you to acknowledge it.


I feel like I should be a huge help in giving town a balanced center today. It's mostly not happening. I'm not sure why. Maybe you can tell me why you're not really engaging me. It seems to be a chronic thing.

I tend to pay attention to people who pay attention to me. I trust Nacho's reads (and probably yours?), but unless I'm trying to convince you you're wrong about me, I feel like my priorities are to figure out the alignments of people I don't already know.

I will be more than willing to switch wagons but I need to wait for Regfan's case to be heard and acknowledged first. If it's unconvincing then I'll find my way to another wagon and do something about Shadoweh later.
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Post Post #2356 (isolation #68) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:34 am

Post by singersigner »

TTH scum read is based on two large things:

1.
TTH visiting DV
: DV is widely regarded as one of the most universally town-read people in this game, and my team has a really hard time justifying what kind of role could be provable that would justify this action. He's fairly active and far from incompetent, and seems like a prime N1 scum kill target. Without mentioning or commenting on DV during Minor Day 1, and stressing her town read of Marquis with the Boon vote, it looks like scum trying to find the sign for that accurate night kill. Her return in and reaction in make very little sense from our perspective. Like I said earlier, we feel so strongly that this is not a town-motivated action or reaction, that we don't want to give her the opportunity to come back and fake-claim something later based on more scum results and the likelihood that this was done in order to kill DV.

2.
TTH replacing in:
Before you get your panties in a bunch, it's not just because Anti replaced out and he hates being scum. The excuse given was that Anti didn't have time for this game and couldn't keep up with how large it had gotten. Because of this, I/we would expect much more out of her. Even Titus has accredited her with being competent, so it's weird that she's satisfied with TTH's contributions which we all have found to be underwhelming at best. Not only that, but her contributions basically break down like this: 30% defending her action last night, agreeing with Mastin through (which feels like scum taking advantage of Mastin's terrible reads), disappearing for three days only to come back and comment on Tammy's case/how busy she is/how she has reads but doesn't give them (), then attacking DV's reads in .

It boils down to actively lurking unless she's the topic of conversation, and not being able to substantiate the reasons for her action while simultaneously being as little a factor in this game as Antihero was.
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Post Post #2364 (isolation #69) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:51 am

Post by singersigner »

Shadoweh scum read is based on a few things:


1.
Her interactions with our slot:
From "agreeing" with Tammy in , to the tone of mentioning Zar in (Empire touched on that a bit). The way she voted Bulb in and then called our slot town when Empire replaced in seemed unnatural because if she was really switching her vote due to a town read on Empire, it should've come at the same time or before she bothered changing her vote.

2.
Stance on Boon not being outed:
and . Not specifically a scum-tell, but noting because it feels like it's only optimal play for her, which could go either way.

3.
Connection to TTH:
Because we're scumreading both of them, this point really only makes a difference if either flip scum, but and look like she's specifically avoiding bussing. Her comments about not having a say about the first lynch but jumping onto the second one in is not coming from a town-mindset. I also already brought this up, but asking why there are no votes on my slot suggests that she wants votes to fall on us, which directly contradicts her aforementioned apathy with the first lynch. It really reads as trying to get people to focus on our suspicion rather than TTH's (who was the largest wagon at the time), supporting our scum read of both of them. (adding in that this mindset of not pushing any reads doesn't make sense coming from a team with GI and basically looks like coasting)
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Post Post #2369 (isolation #70) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:58 am

Post by singersigner »

I was in the process of rewriting/paraphrasing additions from Regfan. I understand the irony of posting about TTH before the person I'm voting. It didn't stop me from going in the order it was in the PT.
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Post Post #2393 (isolation #71) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:01 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2356, singersigner wrote:
TTH scum read is based on two large things:

1.
TTH visiting DV
: DV is widely regarded as one of the most universally town-read people in this game, and my team has a really hard time justifying what kind of role could be provable that would justify this action. He's fairly active and far from incompetent, and seems like a prime N1 scum kill target. Without mentioning or commenting on DV during Minor Day 1, and stressing her town read of Marquis with the Boon vote, it looks like scum trying to find the sign for that accurate night kill. Her return in and reaction in make very little sense from our perspective. Like I said earlier, we feel so strongly that this is not a town-motivated action or reaction, that we don't want to give her the opportunity to come back and fake-claim something later based on more scum results and the likelihood that this was done in order to kill DV.

2.
TTH replacing in:
Before you get your panties in a bunch, it's not just because Anti replaced out and he hates being scum. The excuse given was that Anti didn't have time for this game and couldn't keep up with how large it had gotten. Because of this, I/we would expect much more out of her. Even Titus has accredited her with being competent, so it's weird that she's satisfied with TTH's contributions which we all have found to be underwhelming at best. Not only that, but her contributions basically break down like this: 30% defending her action last night, agreeing with Mastin through (which feels like scum taking advantage of Mastin's terrible reads), disappearing for three days only to come back and comment on Tammy's case/how busy she is/how she has reads but doesn't give them (), then attacking DV's reads in .

It boils down to actively lurking unless she's the topic of conversation, and not being able to substantiate the reasons for her action while simultaneously being as little a factor in this game as Antihero was.

In post 2364, singersigner wrote:
Shadoweh scum read is based on a few things:


1.
Her interactions with our slot:
From "agreeing" with Tammy in , to the tone of mentioning Zar in (Empire touched on that a bit). The way she voted Bulb in and then called our slot town when Empire replaced in seemed unnatural because if she was really switching her vote due to a town read on Empire, it should've come at the same time or before she bothered changing her vote.

2.
Stance on Boon not being outed:
and . Not specifically a scum-tell, but noting because it feels like it's only optimal play for her, which could go either way.

3.
Connection to TTH:
Because we're scumreading both of them, this point really only makes a difference if either flip scum, but and look like she's specifically avoiding bussing. Her comments about not having a say about the first lynch but jumping onto the second one in is not coming from a town-mindset. I also already brought this up, but asking why there are no votes on my slot suggests that she wants votes to fall on us, which directly contradicts her aforementioned apathy with the first lynch. It really reads as trying to get people to focus on our suspicion rather than TTH's (who was the largest wagon at the time), supporting our scum read of both of them. (adding in that this mindset of not pushing any reads doesn't make sense coming from a team with GI and basically looks like coasting)
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Post Post #2400 (isolation #72) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:45 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2396, Titus wrote:Sympathico is mind meld right?

Singer has been rehashing vanity wagons, complaining about the game statevthat makes no coherent sense, spending more time talking about people she will not lynch
and has no desire to work with anyone
. Espy at least tries rather than posting unless drivel that makes me want to be overly aggressive.

You're projecting and stating something as fact that has not even remotely been tested as true. No I'm not going around scrambling for a town block because I've really never felt the need to. I'm pretty confident that I won't get lynched today (at least not first because I've already stated my preference toward being second--see?? I'm working with people!) I said I'd compromise and I will. Saying I won't is just...making things up for the sake of making things up?

I also fail to see what's wrong with taking about who I won't lynch. Isn't that information just as good for the rest of town?

I'd actually really like to needle Mastin's pride a bit. The more sure she is that she's right about me being scum, the scummier I think she is for boasting about how good she is. Don't take it personally, though. Scum don't really have a choice but to be confident with a town that's imploding because then something might not go their way.
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Post Post #2402 (isolation #73) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:54 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2399, fferyllt wrote:I just finished a game with scum-singer.

Doesn't look at all like her play in this game. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=60566

You have to factor replacing in and stuff and newbie vs what this game is.

To be honest, I was pretty confident I was emulating my most recent town meta that game. I'm obviously biased, though, so once we're dead it'd be nice to see what the difference you see are.

I say most recent, because I tend to gravitate towards whichever play I most recently was successful with. Gamma brought up Mafia of the Maidens, where I was town, and ended up salvaging a scum game I replaced into with people who were in the same game, by acting the same way.

I'm glad you have more than just Empire's replace out to read me, though admittedly it would only really matter if you weren't confirmed town, lol.

Preview Edit:
@Cheetory...I'd say how torn it is across the board with people not being able to agree on more than like two-three mutual reads, town or scum. The "town block" is the closest anyone's come to trying to find a happy medium, but for whatever reason it looks forced as scummy as fuck so I'm trying not to let that bias me. I'm generally dissatisfied with general sense of apathy by everyone but about 3-4 people with the exception of the person being wagoned the most heavily at any given time.
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Post Post #2413 (isolation #74) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:08 am

Post by singersigner »

singersigner wrote:I say most recent, because I tend to gravitate towards whichever play I most recently was successful with. Gamma brought up Mafia of the Maidens, where I was town, and ended up salvaging a scum game I replaced into with people who were in the same game, by acting the same way.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=22748

is the game I was emulating after Maiden, which references that fact.

Preview Edit:
@Titus...if it makes you feel any better, Mastin's stubbornness is just as annoying as yours!

Also, you call it a vanity wagon when it's literally the first position I've really been able to take all game, and something I haven't been able to communicate effectively until last night/today. I didn't want to "go with the crowd" until I got my bearings and was convinced that what I had to say/prove could wait. People seem content ignoring what I have to say about TTH/Shadoweh, so when you guys can come up with someone not me to lynch, I'm all ears.

@Mastin...I don't need control? Like I said, I'm pretty confident I won't get lynched either way, it's just a matter of being able find something other than TTH/Shadoweh that people would also be willing to compromise on.
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Post Post #2417 (isolation #75) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:14 am

Post by singersigner »

If that's what you think needs to happen.

unvote

vote: Espeonage


Question:
How do you feel about Shadoweh's assertion that I'm scummy for calling out Mastin/Bulb for being scum shortly after they called me scum?
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Post Post #2419 (isolation #76) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:19 am

Post by singersigner »

Mastin could you provide examples of this stubbornness/accuracy?
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Post Post #2428 (isolation #77) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:51 pm

Post by singersigner »

unvote
vote: TellTaleHeart
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Post Post #2429 (isolation #78) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:52 pm

Post by singersigner »

Oversoul/Marquis/TSO/Vezok/DV

With me!
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Post Post #2433 (isolation #79) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:28 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2431, fferyllt wrote:fucking busting my ass arguing against your wagon.

I really don't know what to tell you. You don't have a vote, so while I appreciate your efforts (<3), it doesn't really seem like many people are taking your contributions as seriously as they should (incoming Titus rage). I'm either going to be lynched or I'm not, but without a vote, unfortunately your word doesn't mean much for the lynch mob, especially not until there's a flip to compare your reads to as you won't be able to follow up on any of them after today.

If Nacho wanted to elaborate on
why
he knows I'm town, that would help, but otherwise, his words seem to fall on deaf ears.
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Post Post #2435 (isolation #80) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:38 pm

Post by singersigner »

Alternatively, you could appeal to their logick train in that as long as you're alive, there's no point killing off a confirmed town's townread, since they seem to be pretty stubborn about us doing the same theirs!
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Post Post #2437 (isolation #81) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:41 pm

Post by singersigner »

Ffery, what do you think of my case on TTH/Shadoweh?
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Post Post #2440 (isolation #82) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:54 pm

Post by singersigner »

Ah...I have no past game-related knowledge of her myself. I've probably played with her at one point, but I don't retain your kind of meta-memory unless it's recent or significant. Anything meta related is coming from Regfan. I only noted what I personally had issues with this game.
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Post Post #2441 (isolation #83) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:01 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2436, fferyllt wrote:Mastin's ears shouldn'tbe deaf to Nacho.

What does this mean, and what does it tell you that she's not even remotely humoring him?
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Post Post #2484 (isolation #84) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:05 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2482, TellTaleHeart wrote:This game would be so simple and easy for me if people in the camp pushing me had more scum than the ones defending me, but Anti's telling me that's probably not the case (the opposite, is probably more accurate). Looking back over the game and individual ISOs, I'm getting this sinking feeling he's right.

After looking back at individual ISOs, what are your thoughts on the people pushing for your lynch versus not? What does Anti feel now that he seems to be following along with the game enough to have that opinion?
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Post Post #2487 (isolation #85) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:18 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2460, Bulbazak wrote:#660. It's the most important post in her entire ISO.

This is really weak reasoning to stubbornly call her town. In fact, from what I've heard, it's pretty easy to say that Empire would never replace into a scum slot, so while it might be used a legitimate reason to townread my slot, the fact that someone does it doesn't mean a whole lot for their alignment. It's null at best. What it does do is make you look worse for putting so much stock in that as to call her town because of it.

Preview Edit:
@TTH...I can actually understand where he's coming from with that because it's practically the same reason I feel that Bulb is attacking me for wanting you to claim. It's "the right way to react." If I were scum, I wouldn't need the claim to justify killing you.

Besides, as far as I'm concerned, you don't need to claim your sign, just the reason why you would visit DV. If your claim rings true, this isn't a death sentence on your part...unless scum use everything to target you, in which case I guess you'd really have to weigh the odds that there's either a doctor or scum will keep you alive for wifom. I suppose you could say the same without the claim, but seeing as my team doesn't believe you, this is our safest request.

Preview Edit x2:
Hito confirmed Ffery was immune from the Boon.
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Post Post #2494 (isolation #86) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:41 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2493, TellTaleHeart wrote:
In post 2487, singersigner wrote:@TTH...I can actually understand where he's coming from with that because it's practically the same reason I feel that Bulb is attacking me for wanting you to claim. It's "the right way to react." If I were scum, I wouldn't need the claim to justify killing you.

I actually believe Titus to be the most worrisome of the bunch, though I can't necessarily articulate why.

Ah, I only really remember Bulb saying something to that effect, though I wouldn't be surprised I missed it in one of her 50 THOUSAND posts.

In any case, assuming all of the PRs also have to figure out signs before actioning, there is one role we can think of. One.

@Oversoul...can you clarify Tammy's mistake with her actions one more time?
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Post Post #2497 (isolation #87) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:45 am

Post by singersigner »

That's not what she meant. GiF was a "question mark" read on Ffery's list of reads, so mimicking a confirmed town's read is essentially a safe read.
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Post Post #2501 (isolation #88) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:08 am

Post by singersigner »

unvote
vote: ActionDan
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Post Post #2502 (isolation #89) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:14 am

Post by singersigner »

Also, Bulba, is mollie reading along with this game? What does she think of me/Nacho's read of me? (I'd defer to ffery's read, too, but I don't know how much experience they have with each other)
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Post Post #2512 (isolation #90) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:54 pm

Post by singersigner »

Titus could you address my last question to you about TTH, please? :]
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Post Post #2513 (isolation #91) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:59 pm

Post by singersigner »

Also, now that it's been brought up, maybe you and Ffery should have a dialogue with BBT about our last game together since he was my scum buddy. What does he have to say?
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Post Post #2516 (isolation #92) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:53 pm

Post by singersigner »

Ah, ok, so it wasn't actually a question so I can see why you didn't think to address it...but while we're here! You previously said it doesn't seem like I'm reading your posts, but when it comes to my stances/cases on TTH/Shadoweh, you seemed to blow right through them. You didn't even try to discredit them as I assumed you would, except to say "Shadoweh's not getting lynched hurr durr."

You accuse me of being stubborn and not compromising, but then didn't really take the time to address the first moment I've been able to really express my team's thoughts/preferences/scumreads. It really felt like Mastin instantly shutting me down with her first response to me, which is surprising coming from both of you. It's like you're both determined to stick people in this secluded room with the rest of the outcasts, and talking around those who disagree with you without really
listening
to them and casting them off like lepers. (which I always tend to read as scummy no matter who does it because I feel like scum like to control the game state as a whole)

It's really difficult to take a town block seriously when the pioneers of it aren't taking into account the people who have the authority reads on certain players. And yes, now I'm appealing to Nacho's read of me and now mollie and BBT who probably have a vaguely better understanding of me than most others and will see this is obviously my town game. I'd appeal to CDB but I don't trust anything he has to say anymore since he was scum in my last game and just stroked my ego being right about my alignment. I'd also appeal to UT to get Reck's confirmation on me but that seems like a fruitless effort based on his contributions of the game thus far. :roll:
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Post Post #2521 (isolation #93) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:05 pm

Post by singersigner »

I'm proxying my vote to Nacho.

@Bulb...since you confirmed mollie is reading the game, can you defer to her read on me, pls?
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Post Post #2538 (isolation #94) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:56 pm

Post by singersigner »

I do think you're scummier for it, ayeup! I think your agenda could be scum trying to get me lynched, which is why I asked you to look at the more recent meta on me and to defer to the expertise of people who have the more recent/accurate experience before jumping to your incorrect conclusions.

I really thought you were town for your push on Bulb but this is a really shallow push, even for you who falls on ~reasons~ half the time.
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Post Post #2540 (isolation #95) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:14 pm

Post by singersigner »

You haven't really addressed why you're not taking advantage of a more well-rounded/accurate history on me. Meta's ever changing so if you're suggesting I've all of a sudden reverted back to the way I played scum four years ago without acknowledging that I've played scum (and town!) differently since then, it's a pretty scum motivated push to support a mislynch, yes.

However, due to mine and my team's priorities, that can be addressed later pending your answer. Unless you're ready to be more thorough and would like me to solicite other opinions on the matter now?
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Post Post #2543 (isolation #96) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:31 pm

Post by singersigner »

Stop implying you don't understand my answer. I didn't think I had to reword "scum motovated" and "scummier, yeup!" to imply that I do think it makes you scummier for it, especially now that you're appealing to others to draw on your meta for support when you won't do them the same curtesy.
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Post Post #2545 (isolation #97) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:36 pm

Post by singersigner »

Right now, my only agenda is to discredit your argument, not to get you lynched. Unless your lynch is emimant, this is only my backhanded support for it (hey this means you moved from a town read to a neutrally scummy read!).
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Post Post #2546 (isolation #98) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:37 pm

Post by singersigner »

Question: why do you seem to need me to commit to a binary read on you?
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Post Post #2548 (isolation #99) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:44 pm

Post by singersigner »

Town.
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Post Post #2550 (isolation #100) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:52 pm

Post by singersigner »

Because you were being pretty cheeky about the whole meta thing and I don't really trust a cheeky Gamma. That, and you're calling me scum so I needed to see how wrong you're willing to be.
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Post Post #2553 (isolation #101) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:04 pm

Post by singersigner »

No it's not the same answer I would've given. It's the answer I give after you asked me to make a decision.

Again, it was to prove your theory was wrong and if you continue to commit to it and not concede to your fallibility and inaccuracy, I will change my mind.

I'm not sure what your game is, but if you admittedly are not reading up on the game as much as you should, I think you should take a step back and reevaluate your real argument because it's not convincing as it is.

Preview Edit:
I didn't realize you needed a black/white answer at that point, Gamma. I was answering/responding to the best of my information/gut to figure out where your head was really at.
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Post Post #2555 (isolation #102) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:17 pm

Post by singersigner »

I was just really surprised your experience from so long ago blinded any recent experience of me, or that you even remembered it for that matter. It felt like only something scum would try to use to their advantage because they picked up on one game that could vaguely represent something similar years later. Especially blind to the fact that you have Ffery/Nacho screaming the opposite but don't agree. If it were anyone who didn't know me better I wouldn't have found it so scummy.

It's not really my scum prerogative to antagonize the people who will fight to make me eat rope. I really don't think I could be any more town except to be in Ffery's position, but that's just me!
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Post Post #2556 (isolation #103) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:29 pm

Post by singersigner »

GAMMA WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY IS THAT YOUR LOGICK TRAIN SUCKS.
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Post Post #2559 (isolation #104) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:55 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2557, Gammagooey wrote:it was a lot less of a logic train and more of a tiny meta pushcart imo but shrug


I think it's weird that you didn't see it as potentially coming from town too and that you spent so much effort focusing on it when it was one post that I think is kind of clear I didn't put a ton of effort into going through and researching the games or spelling out differences between them. Can you give some quick thoughts on why you were townreading me before that?

Also
singer wrote:@Gamma...you definitely have more recent town meta on me, which was more the point, and I honestly haven't been scum (save my most recent newbie game) since the 2012 Scummies Invitational, which was also almost two years ago. I think your statement that you hate meta but are using it as a soft support/case/whathaveyou on me is really inconsistent and self-serving.


singer wrote:If you had any bit of recent meta on me, I wouldn't be arguing with you. The difference in those games are circumstantially different, particularly the scum game, which is the only one I really attacked anyway.

Why did you think the scum game was the only one that you really attacked when you said earlier that me having more recent town meta on you was more the point?

You caught me! You were calling me scum so I denounced the scum meta in my head while proving you should realize how town I am in the thread. Oops!

Re: town read...I like people who can articulate my thoughts better than I can, so the town read came from agreeing with your Bulb read.

I still just don't really know what the point of using my previous history with you was if you didn't mean for it to make a difference in the way people feel about me. What exactly do you disagree with about my play, again? Phone posting is haaard.
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Post Post #2563 (isolation #105) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:28 pm

Post by singersigner »

I wasn't scumreading you until you brought up outed meta. I know, I know, it's not your whole case! But when someone's wrong, you're going to point out where, and everything else seemed conceptual, which is really hard to argue when you respectfully disagree!

shows where I initially respected the direction you were taking with Bulb, but I never commented on it fully during my catchup. I'll do that on a computer tomorrow.

What about Nacho's opinion of me? Could you point out what you disagree with from him? What if they provided games to support why? How much credence would you give to them because of it, knowing 100% they're pro-town motivation.

Out of curiosity, what questions were you planning on asking if I had responded that I thought you were scum?

Also, Aronis' timing is :?
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Post Post #2613 (isolation #106) » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:57 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2093, Gammagooey wrote:
In post 2056, fferyllt wrote:
@Gamma


Nacho wants to know what the fuck that singer vote was. he's calling it garbage.

best way to describe it is probably that singer feels like she's trying to display her emotions as much as possible to get read as town for how she's reacting to the things happening around her. it doesn't feel like she's legitimately suspicious of anyone - just that she's bouncing off everything that's been happening.

granted, i could see her potentially doing it as town because of her playstyle whereas most of the playerlist doing something like that I would probably go completely berserk on getting them lynched, I just think that it's still more likely to be coming from her as scum than town.

Ok I'm back on a computer so I was actually able to go back and look for this, which I think is the most substantial post Gamma's made about his scumread on me (the previous one said "skeeved out" which I don't know how to respond to. >_>

In any case, he's not wrong! That is basically exactly what I've been doing, mostly because I had a hefty job replacing in, but also because I tend to be a lot more passive these days. My main goal is to ask questions, and interpret answers to get the best feel for any game I play. He's interpreting it incorrectly, but I can't really do anything about the facts of how I play. I'm just legitimately surprising he's interpreting it the way he is, which is why I interrogated him about his follow-up meta arguments.

@Gamma...your particular insistence that I give a specific read on you "gut to my head" felt like you genuinely thought I was scum and wanted to force me to let down my ability to waffle on you until maybe a wagon on you started or it didn't. You're right that you could probably fake that as town, but your continued effort/real-time talk with me attempting to paint me in a negative light seems a fruitless effort as scum after Ffery suggested she and Nacho were slightly scumreading you because they were townreading me.

@Titus...you're right, I know BBT doesn't really do meta, but if feels regardless of that, the only real reason anyone's scumreading me right now is because of the way I'm posting?? Which is tried and true just the way I post (I'd like to think as both town and scum, but I digress). It feels weird that no one's really addressing any depth to their read of me, particularly Mastin, who still refuses to acknowledge me, despite agreeing not to lynch me yet for Ffery's sake.

How can you personally say you share a disdain for meta when you're using it to read people in this very game?

And if any of my confident town reads were under fire, I would stick my neck out for them. I can't just...make something up...

@Mastin...I replaced into Quickness (another rather large game at the time), had very little interaction with Anti, and ended up losing the game in lylo...why do you think Anti "not wanting singersigner back" means anything? This kind of jab is terrible. :roll: (oh look! singer discrediting yet another backhanded jab at her! how scummy!)

@TTH...are you at all in fear of getting lynched today?
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Post Post #2614 (isolation #107) » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:04 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2524, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 2521, singersigner wrote:I'm proxying my vote to Nacho.

The hell I'm already doing that so you can keep your vote

You're proxying to Ffery!
I'm proxying to Nacho!

This means we're
actually
more likely to actually get a lynch through regardless of who it's on. Yay!

I've considered refusing to post until people decide on a lynch to prevent this game from getting any longer unless it was to join the wagon, but I decided against it. People are still wrong about me so that needs to stop.

Still waiting on mollie's thoughts about me.
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Post Post #2616 (isolation #108) » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:54 pm

Post by singersigner »

Spoiler: EBWOP
In post 2613, singersigner wrote:
In post 2093, Gammagooey wrote:
In post 2056, fferyllt wrote:
@Gamma


Nacho wants to know what the fuck that singer vote was. he's calling it garbage.

best way to describe it is probably that singer feels like she's trying to display her emotions as much as possible to get read as town for how she's reacting to the things happening around her. it doesn't feel like she's legitimately suspicious of anyone - just that she's bouncing off everything that's been happening.

granted, i could see her potentially doing it as town because of her playstyle whereas most of the playerlist doing something like that I would probably go completely berserk on getting them lynched, I just think that it's still more likely to be coming from her as scum than town.

Ok I'm back on a computer so I was actually able to go back and look for this, which I think is the most substantial post Gamma's made about his scumread on me (the previous one said "skeeved out" which I don't know how to respond to. >_>

In any case, he's not wrong! That is basically exactly what I've been doing, mostly because I had a hefty job replacing in, but also because I tend to be a lot more passive these days. My main goal is to ask questions, and interpret answers to get the best feel for any game I play. He's interpreting it incorrectly, but I can't really do anything about the facts of how I play. I'm just legitimately surprising he's interpreting it the way he is, which is why I interrogated him about his follow-up meta arguments.

@Gamma...your particular insistence that I give a specific read on you "gut to my head" felt like you genuinely thought I was scum and wanted to force me to let down my ability to waffle on you until maybe a wagon on you started or it didn't. You're right that you could probably fake that as town, but your continued effort/real-time talk with me attempting to paint me in a negative light seems a fruitless effort as scum after Ffery suggested she and Nacho were slightly scumreading you because they were townreading me.

@Titus...you're right, I know BBT doesn't really do meta, but if feels regardless of that, the only real reason anyone's scumreading me right now is because of the way I'm posting?? Which is tried and true just the way I post (I'd like to think as both town and scum, but I digress). It feels weird that no one's really addressing any depth to their read of me, particularly Mastin, who still refuses to acknowledge me, despite agreeing not to lynch me yet for Ffery's sake.

How can you personally say you share a disdain for meta when you're using it to read people in this very game?

And if any of my confident town reads were under fire, I would stick my neck out for them. I can't just...make something up...

@Mastin...I replaced into Quickness (another rather large game at the time), had very little interaction with Anti, and ended up losing the game in lylo...why do you think Anti "not wanting singersigner back" means anything? This kind of jab is terrible. :roll: (oh look! singer discrediting yet another backhanded jab at her! how scummy!)

@TTH...are you at all in fear of getting lynched today?

"but your continued effort/real-time talk with me attempting to paint me in a negative light seems a fruitless effort as scum" this is supposed to mean that
if you were scum
you would purposefully be painting me in a bad light which seems like a fruitless effort, so it feels more like town who is legitimately trying to parse me out, and failed to do so.
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Post Post #2619 (isolation #109) » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:57 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2618, Bulbazak wrote:Forgot about this:

In post 2614, singersigner wrote:
Still waiting on mollie's thoughts about me.


I've been letting Mollie deal with her own stuff for a bit. I'll try bothering her again tomorrow.

She's had time to comment on several other things in this game so far (within the last couple of days, I might add), but not the person you're voting/scumreading?

Especially me? :(
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Post Post #2633 (isolation #110) » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:34 am

Post by singersigner »

I wasn't calling your meta post cheeky (nor did I even imply I was), I was calling our conversation cheeky. I didn't trust your line of questioning because I wasn't sure if it came from a town mindset or scum mindset and thought you were trying to set me up. I brought up people who knew my town meta because you had failed to convince me you weren't taking that into account when you brought it up in the first place.

Re biting sarcasm...once again, you're right! I'm going to use everything I know how to discredit the people who are wrong about me and appeal to the people who are right. Again, I fail to see how you think that's alignment indicative, much less leaning scum.

I'm not getting lynched today, Gamma, and I'm really fucking annoyed you're still pressing this. Does it tell you anything that not even my bigger supporters of singerscum have acknowledged your concerns about me? I really don't have the energy to fight you anymore on this so if you want to keep pushing my lynch I'll let you keep failing.

That being said, gun to your head, who're my scum buddies?
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Post Post #2634 (isolation #111) » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:34 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2632, Gammagooey wrote:
In post 2563, singersigner wrote:
shows where I initially respected the direction you were taking with Bulb, but I never commented on it fully during my catchup. I'll do that on a computer tomorrow.

get around to doing this sometime today please btw singer

Yeah I forgot about this. I'll get to it next time I'm at a computer.
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Post Post #2677 (isolation #112) » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:24 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2632, Gammagooey wrote:
In post 2563, singersigner wrote:
shows where I initially respected the direction you were taking with Bulb, but I never commented on it fully during my catchup. I'll do that on a computer tomorrow.

get around to doing this sometime today please btw singer

This post outlined my thoughts as I was reading/catching up in the game. To be honest, I can't even really pick out specifics because it really just reminded me of this game in the whimsical nature of his posting not understanding how he came to certain conclusions on his reads, and you articulated it in a way I often can't.
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Post Post #2678 (isolation #113) » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:26 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2666, Titus wrote:
In Uncouth, I didn't have a team advising me on how to get scum lynched.
*shrug* After uncouth, people wanted different play. My reads are still front and center but following others leads as to how to communicate with otherss. Alch really liked the way I drew a wagon to myself to force the scums to make bad plays in playing with elements.

So the fact you say I sound wierd is a
good
thing. I do not want to sound like a lunatic but someone who is sane rational and followed. Unfortunately it's still taking mountains to get my own team to listen to ME so its rather frustrating.

What do you mean by the bolded?
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Post Post #2679 (isolation #114) » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:37 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2656, Cheetory6 wrote:Also, can I get your read on Shadoweh?

What's YOUR read on Shadoweh? I didn't see you respond to my post/case, but now you're soliciting reads on her.
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Post Post #2681 (isolation #115) » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:46 pm

Post by singersigner »

Yessir. Sorry I'm posting so much. Real-time arguments help me the most when I catch up in large games (part of why I was so annoyed Mastin made no effort to allow me to do so with her) but I realize that's also what I hate about spam-posters.

There's also been a lot of absent people lately and it's making me uncomfortable. >_>
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Post Post #2685 (isolation #116) » Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:18 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2683, Espeonage wrote:Titus recent postings don't seem in line with how I would expect Titus to approach a game. She is a player that commonly does teaching hydras and usually likes to do things on her own terms. Being dictated to by her team seems off.

Yes. But do you think it's coming from a scum mindset? Or the nature of Team Mafia not really being 100% parallel to a hydra? (I am also trying to figure this out)
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Post Post #2715 (isolation #117) » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:58 am

Post by singersigner »

Regfan and I would really not like an espeonage wagon. I will explain more why when I get home from work but for now his engaging and push on Titus feels really town! Also his understanding of how we will not gain much by last minute hops onto him based on an arbitrary deadline reads very genuinely trying to give town the best chance at finding scum if he has to get lynched eventually.

We'd really like to see a Shadoweh lynch, and I will also explain why when we get home.

We feel better about TTH. Will also get to more paraphrasig when I get home, just please don't do anything stupid before I get back and can have my say!
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Post Post #2731 (isolation #118) » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:25 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 2725, Titus wrote:Ohh, so basically if I am wrong, you would pay the other case no heed. Decent hypothesis. And if you're wrong? What then?

To me, Mastina makes a better case than you. You will probably get an Espy lynch but I am concerned given Gamma's balls to the walls effort that he got virtually no additional sheepage. He gets sheepage. Maybe it's a team mafia thing.

It's probably because all of my scum buddies are hardcore ignoring my wagon in hopes that'll disappear. Well, there's maybe one white-knighting me, but she can't vote anyway so I'm not worried about it coming back to bite me in the butt. :]

I also didn't realize we were voting based on "bareableness"...I might have to change my strategy!

Can you comment on my case on Shadoweh?
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Post Post #2952 (isolation #119) » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:43 am

Post by singersigner »

I've read up on most of everything that's happened in the last few pages, and I'm sure I missed a couple of things that I need to address so people might need to remind me, but...I don't really know how to respond right now... :oops:

(noted that I missed communicating all of Regfan's thoughts so will post those in a bit)
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Post Post #2963 (isolation #120) » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:02 pm

Post by singersigner »

Mina and I kinda don't want to lynch ActionDan anymore. :(
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Post Post #2969 (isolation #121) » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:30 pm

Post by singersigner »

Notable ~Things~

* The tapering on/off of Esp's wagon to singer's wagon to Esp's wagon reads very much like scum not caring who the first mislynch is. I will defer to Regfan to interpret it more who he thinks is scum because of it...obviously Shadoweh is el numero uno.

* GiF funneling Ika's reads and thoughts strengthen our townread of him.

* Marquis has been pretty town but should actually either replace out or stop making excuses/dodging contributing.

* AD scum read has gotten stronger
conferring about this one

* TTHscum wouldn't try buying another day knowing she's fucked tomorrow, and her not trying to be survivalistic by genuinely reading me as town instead of hopping on the wagon reads town (I think I said this already?)

* Concerned about Oversoul/Tammy because why would Tammy replace out over Esp but not Zar? And why is Oversoul trying to start out with completely fresh reads instead of taking into account Tammy's?

* Cheetory's been delving into most of my paranoia with Titusscum, but now that Regfan is reinforcing my suspicions, I feel more confident with that. He doesn't like the way that she keeps sluffing off everything I say as not even trying or discrediting (to be fair, though, I have been doing a lot of it...just selectively when people are wrong!). She looks more like she's trying to fit in by appealing to her town reads and shirking some of the responsibility off in their direction rather than her own.

* Shadowehs still obvscum and her push/vote on Esp here is p bad yo.
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Post Post #2979 (isolation #122) » Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:34 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2973, fferyllt wrote:
hello Westeros


nacho and I are mentally counting up all the times we've claimed something for the sole purpose of surviving one more game day. we lost count. If tth confirms herself as town tomorrow, of course back off. That's an IF though.

Also, what happened to your Shadoweh read?

What do you mean what happened to our Shadoweh read? We...still have it?

Also, it's not just that she claimed something to survive, it's that she claimed something that could be confirmed and how she's spoken to it since. Maybe it's just an appeal to our egos but the whole "you guys should know what I'm talking about" seems risky for someone pushing for her to claim. It's also the attention she'd draw to herself and associations that doesn't seem as scum motivated in hindsight.

Hell, we know there aren't any SKs in the game, but they'd obviously claim vig to keep themselves alive, which is a confirmable action, but not a confirmable alignment. She seems to think she'll have the alignment, which if town, we're willing to see what happens. Either she eats a night kill because scum don't want to deal with it, or scum have to live with that claim
whatever the fuck it is
.

Preview Edit:
Regfan is dealing with some family stuff right now, but I'll ask him to clarify when he gets back. If I were to answer, I'd probably say it was an excuse to replace out of a scum slot more than anything. We talked about the possibility of a scumTammy preferring to stay in the game because of the satisfaction she'd have of tricking everyone in the end since she's so widely townread, but if it were me, I might take advantage of replacing out after getting to a good "confirmed state" with the game, just so I didn't fuck it up accidentally--it would be worth not having the hyperventilating alone.
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Post Post #3004 (isolation #123) » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:56 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 2992, Shadoweh wrote:Re: TTH, I figured out what her role probably is. Please stop having this discussion. It's not going to be vig, unless you really think TTH was planning to fakeclaim killing a town Deasvail and then coming in tomorrow holding up his townie corpse with a happy face.

Literally no one is saying that or even suggesting it, wtf?

In post 2993, Shadoweh wrote:
In post 2979, singersigner wrote:
Preview Edit:
Regfan is dealing with some family stuff right now, but I'll ask him to clarify when he gets back. If I were to answer, I'd probably say it was an excuse to replace out of a scum slot more than anything. We talked about the possibility of a scumTammy preferring to stay in the game because of the satisfaction she'd have of tricking everyone in the end since she's so widely townread, but if it were me, I might take advantage of replacing out after getting to a good "confirmed state" with the game, just so I didn't fuck it up accidentally--it would be worth not having the hyperventilating alone.

Did Regfan seriously say that? That sounds like so much incredible bullshit. Tammy doesn't get satisfaction out of tricking people, she gets guilt trips and spends the entire post game apologizing to peoeple. Her replaace out is quite reminiscent of the game we hydra'd in and she abandoned to let me finish, meanwhile she kept the Cerulean hydra going in Fantasy Camp 2 as scum, forcing herself to hold out. Her history doesn't support your thesis.

No Regfan didn't say that.
I
said, "if
I
were to answer." Geezus shit, how many times have I been accused of not reading thoroughly? :roll:
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Post Post #3005 (isolation #124) » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:56 pm

Post by singersigner »

unvote
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Post Post #3007 (isolation #125) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:08 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 3002, mastin2 wrote:
In post 2976, fferyllt wrote:
Regfan

You are breaking our hearts with this tammy fixation.
Not sure whether it'll make the heartbreak better or worse, but it'll be different when you see that he wasn't doing it with a town mindset! (Regfan is singer's team, no?)

If you're scum I'll understand (hint: we think you're pretty scum!)

If you're town, it's gunna give me such sweet satisfaction to prove how wrong you are.

Either way, I call it a win. :]
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Post Post #3043 (isolation #126) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:09 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 3010, Titus wrote:
In post 3006, DeasVail wrote:Ok, I've read up and really I just want a lynch. I still want to vote for AD because I can't think of anyone better to vote for and I don't want to be scrabbling around trying to find a lynch and have it end up being I'd much rather not lynch such as Singer/Espe. I also still don't really see much that's town about him, though I guess my hurried catch-up could have something to do with that and I'll look again. In any case, I wouldn't mind if, you know, we could get that wagon fired up again. I'm really sorry about my lack of involvement lately and I think I'll sort the reads out that I've been putting off after the first lynch (though at the rate things are going it may very well be before).

Ffery, if I could have Nacho's read progression on AD that would be pretty cool, but I understand you guys are busy and so please make this low priority if anything at all.


Why are you asking FFery to do something and then saying it doesn't matter if she does it?

Wow, you twisted the fuck out of his words!

In post 3011, Titus wrote:
In post 3007, singersigner wrote:
In post 3002, mastin2 wrote:
In post 2976, fferyllt wrote:
Regfan

You are breaking our hearts with this tammy fixation.
Not sure whether it'll make the heartbreak better or worse, but it'll be different when you see that he wasn't doing it with a town mindset! (Regfan is singer's team, no?)

If you're scum I'll understand (hint: we think you're pretty scum!)

If you're town, it's gunna give me such sweet satisfaction to prove how wrong you are.

Either way, I call it a win. :]


Mastina is not scum. Why does everyone who doubts you wind up in your scumlist?

If you are town and lynched, how can you consider that a win? Doubly so with a team backing you?

The only people who actively suspect/cast doubt on me that "wound up on my scumlist" ( :roll: ) are Shadoweh and Mastin. You I'm trying to parse out but my team seriously doesn't like what you're spitting out right now, especially recently. Bulb I already said was scum before interacting with him or him even turning his attention to my slot again, so it seems pretty shady that you're trying to throw him into this magical read that changed once he voted me or something. And Gamma, who's been one of the biggest proprietors of my wagon/lynch so far, I've already stated I think is town, so again...where exactly is your head with that statement?

As for calling it a win even if Mastin's town...you assume I need to be lynched to prove it? I was literally just stating something in retrospect once the game's over and everything's confirmed. Wholey fuck, how did you read so much into that?!?

@Oversoul...you can "nip it in the butt" all you want, but you haven't really addressed our concerns. I never said I thought you were scum; I just wanted answers to questions that cast any doubt on our townread of your slot. I also went into a two-ish page conversation with Gamma about my read on him, so...did you just miss it, or is he so special that you want to know how I feel about only him in particular?
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Post Post #3045 (isolation #127) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:34 am

Post by singersigner »

To be fair, CDB just had a fucking amazing scum game with Reck's Retro Rehash where he was perfectly engaged, and even lashed out at me for implying he was town because he was actually active...
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Post Post #3048 (isolation #128) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:04 am

Post by singersigner »

I'd have to read it in context which I don't really feel like doing, but as CDB hasn't made an impression on me so far, I'd like to hear more from him in general, particularly with regards to people we've both played with before (AD, UT, Gamma...).

Speaking of which, Bulb and TTH are both in prod range? This isn't promising for getting a second lynch in time...

My team is fine with compromising on Shadoweh for now since we can do something about her later.

vote: T S O

Preview Edit...
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Post Post #3049 (isolation #129) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:07 am

Post by singersigner »

Oh wow, ok, I just wanted to check the votecount first but apparently there are still only like three votes on him?

vote: T S O
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Post Post #3056 (isolation #130) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:51 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 3054, Oversoul wrote:Only Gamma in particular. My take away from skimming your ISO with crtl F and "gamma" was a group scum read that you don't think is as strong anymore/personally have qualms about

...

I cannot, in good faith, believe this is actually what you got out of my ISO from ctrl f "Gamma"...
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Post Post #3058 (isolation #131) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:04 am

Post by singersigner »

Like, no one on my team has actually called Gamma scum (except mildly from Mina but shhh), and the only reads list I actually provided put him definitively in the "don't know" pile which I then added a caveat to on my own saying that I only mildly agreed with the "don't know" because I had already very definitively stated I believed Gamma to be town, both at the beginning of my ISO and after our back and forth about his read on me.

I even skimmed my own ISO, to the best of my skimming abilities (gave it a good 30 seconds), just to see if anything stood out to me from your perspective (or what I imagine it would be), and came to that conclusion. Again, I can't figure out how exactly you got "team scum read that you might be disagreeing with at this point" and am totally baffled at what to do right now.

Please explain exactly how you came about this conclusion.
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Post Post #3069 (isolation #132) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:46 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 3062, T S O wrote:I got back from V/LA like 2 days ago, when I was missing for close to 2 weeks. How can you randomly expect me to have d1 content?

Singer's jump on me is fucking terrible, by the way, she doesn't even have a read on me.

You're right, I don't! Isn't that a great thing to say about yourself?

Have you caught up on those 55+ pages you mentioned a couple of days ago?
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Post Post #3124 (isolation #133) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:30 pm

Post by singersigner »

Those sure are a lot of references I'm not getting!

In post 3115, Titus wrote:
In post 3110, Cheetory6 wrote:Game I'm referencing here is Survivor.
I don't believe your stance on not defending Bulba against the bane. I really don't.
Like, the level of commitment you had to "I don't think we should bane" vs "I don't think we should bane my main townread" is just not on the same level and it just doesn't jive to me.
And nothing you've done in the last two hundred posts really pinged me as being all that town.


Yeah, and during survivor I also had uncouth. I had a lot of yelling and a lot of getting ignored. A lot of not getting my scumreads lynched and having to fight tooth and nail to save my townreads. Rather than turning Bulba into a mini Egg situation, I said fuck it Bane him. I lost the argument on a Bane, at least I can get shown right that Bulba's town.

Don't you find it funny that there hasn't been much of any push on Bulba after he was baned? Everyone was saying Bulba was scum, but now that he's baned, literally no one's pushing Bulba scum. It's not like his play's changed at all..

At least Gamma, if not a couple of others, stated they specifically wanted to Bane someone they weren't necessarily going to want lynched. This strategy has since not changed. I'm not really sure how I feel about it since I missed all of that discussion in real time and wasn't able to make my own choices mN1, but it doesn't seem unreasonable that the person who has a target on their back wouldn't necessarily be a priority right now.
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Post Post #3139 (isolation #134) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:00 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 3136, Titus wrote:
In post 3132, Untrod Tripod wrote:when were you in NC??????


A few months ago I swung by the commune for a day or two because of wedding I was attending. It was cheaper to drive out to the commune than fly back sooner. Twas fun.

Yeah! It was around Memorial Day or something. I think that was the first time we met Antihero and we haven't seen him since???

We tried playing True American but it got a little dark and less fun for the people not drinking, but we'll have to do a redo if/whenever you make it out again. :]
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Post Post #3143 (isolation #135) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:07 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 3137, Titus wrote:I've actually played more f2f games with Singer than mafia games which is interesting because mafia games in face to face I suck at as it's all emotion and reading people.

That's kind of funny because I feel like I'm the exact opposite. I'm much better at f2f because I think people can be more calculated as either alignment on the forum and I'm pretty terrible at trusting my reads even when they're right. You seem to be fairly emotionally engaged on the forum, though, so what makes the difference for you?

Preview Edit...
You call it spammy when I responded once about it... :( :?

Also, there are still three votes to lynch and several people haven't even commented on the wagon. We need to do it pretty soon if we want to take advantage of the second lynch...
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Post Post #3154 (isolation #136) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:20 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 3149, Shadoweh wrote:This is just another random lynch that won't give much info if it's town. :/ TSO was v/la for a week, it's not weird that he dropped off, and I thought he was active and townie when he was posting. However since this seems to be Dan vs TSO I would rather vote TSO. I do not condone this. >:| He had best claim, we were suposed to have lynched by now. Setting the deadline later was stupid, we'd already had Fake Day 1 and we should have known we have special procrastination powers. I wish I had considered that sooner. At least we're learning when this presumably happens again tomorrow.

This is something I can actually agree with you on. I know people probably think UT is being flighty when he says "I don't fucking care who we lynch" but at some point information is information. The possibility for a second lynch is built into the mechanics for a reason, and I think we should take advantage of it when we can, especially since that'll give Ffery/team the best information to work with, as we have little time with them left.

It's not that I want to lynch blindly, but we also should've thought about the possibility of claiming before we got to this point, as it'd be really easy for scum whose lynch is inevitable to just claim any goddamn thing and live longer, creating a scramble and another flash wagon that will give us even less information.

I almost feel like we should choose the second person regardless of what TSO/the first person flips. >_>

Preview Edit:
@Oversoul...Ok! That makes a lot more sense. I thought that it was maybe Regfan's reads list that confused you but I wanted to make sure. The bolded were specifically reads we weren't sure of and couldn't parse them out yet. Though I'm flattered you're deferring to my judgement of him (at least a little bit), I really have no idea how to read Gamma...in f2f or the forums. Like...I really just always find him cheeky, and he basically has one town tell that he only ever does sometimes in f2f that he literally could not possibly do here. So yeah, he seems more town than plenty of other people at the moment so I'm fine with that read. I just...you should probably come to your own conclusion on him because I'm basically going on gut and ~feelings~ right now. Specifically with regards to me, though, he really just seemed like he was genuinely trying to figure out the game, as opposed to setting me up for a trap.
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Post Post #3155 (isolation #137) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:22 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 3153, Titus wrote:@Oversoul, I get your pressuring Singer. I like it but now's not the time. We need to get a lynch now. That wagon is rejected by Ffery, so it's not going to happen lynch 1 and not likely at all today.

Please vote TSO or explain why you are not.

Ok, did you even read his post? How did you get pressure out of that??
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Post Post #3158 (isolation #138) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:32 pm

Post by singersigner »

He literally just said he was essentially trying to consult my read on Gamma being the one, as far as he knew, who could read him the best...for whatever reason, I don't know, beats me. I then kind of accused him of making up a read entirely and asked him to explain it, so he did. I don't see where he's criticizing me at all. If anything, it was defending his mistake, which I acknowledge that's all it seems to have been.
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Post Post #3164 (isolation #139) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:48 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 3161, Oversoul wrote:I actually do want to talk to you about more pressure you, but I'm playing league right now. Will yo ube around for a little longer?

Um, ok. I'm in bed watching TGW, but I can phone post? What choo got for me?
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Post Post #3176 (isolation #140) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:28 pm

Post by singersigner »

Shadoweh's on her vanity wagon, just let her run with it. :]

Also, I'm on my phone so I can't quote very well...but! My team DOES know Tammy's town meta, and DID have a strong town read of her. The only moments of doubt was your replacing in, which is why we wanted you to clarify those points. I understand you getting defensive, but it seems like you think I've been unclear in my assertions, which were only that the circumstances were a little fuzzy and wanted you to endulge us a little to ease our minds.

At this point, you've explained the second point to my satisfaction since we're obviously biased we didn't know what to read into it. The first...it wasn't in your ISO, it was in Tammy's. I'll have to find it when I'm not on my phone.

Was there anything specific you needed me to answer because a lot of that post was a defense/assertion that we should know better, so I'm not sure where the questions/pressure lies...
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Post Post #3194 (isolation #141) » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:29 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 3181, Shadoweh wrote:
In post 3176, singersigner wrote:Shadoweh's on her vanity wagon, just let her run with it. :]

Are you enjoying misrepping everything I say blatantly? Why don't you call Mina, who is actually on your team and watched me play seven times more then Regfan and ask her to explain your idiotic crusade on me? Maybe she can post something that isn't made to just piss me off.

To be fair, this wasn't so much an attack on you as it was on mastin/Titus (I don't remember which one) who called my vote one on a vanity wagon, but said nothing about yours after all the talk about compromise.

But sure, I'll get a quote from Mina if you'd like. It's not going to make you feel better, but whatever.

Also, we couldn't rely on waiting for a claim at this point, sadly. CDB I wouldn't feel bad because if he's truly scum, he would've drawn it out too long to realistically get a second lynch in anyway.
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Post Post #3198 (isolation #142) » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:55 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 3177, Oversoul wrote:
In post 3176, singersigner wrote:Shadoweh's on her vanity wagon, just let her run with it. :]

Also, I'm on my phone so I can't quote very well...but! My team DOES know Tammy's town meta, and DID have a strong town read of her. The only moments of doubt was your replacing in, which is why we wanted you to clarify those points. I understand you getting defensive, but it seems like you think I've been unclear in my assertions, which were only that the circumstances were a little fuzzy and wanted you to endulge us a little to ease our minds.

At this point, you've explained the second point to my satisfaction since we're obviously biased we didn't know what to read into it. The first...it wasn't in your ISO, it was in Tammy's. I'll have to find it when I'm not on my phone.

Was there anything specific you needed me to answer because a lot of that post was a defense/assertion that we should know better, so I'm not sure where the questions/pressure lies...


Nah, I just said pressure to entice you to stay. :P I'm a little manipulative like that.

My team and I think you are town. I thought you were town even when Tammy wanted Zar's blood.

That's so mean! :( :oops:

So why exactly did you need me to stay at that point? To hear your answers?
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Post Post #3217 (isolation #143) » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:39 am

Post by singersigner »

Does that mean you'd take a closer look at Mastin upon my flip?
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Post Post #3218 (isolation #144) » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:40 am

Post by singersigner »

Or Shadoweh for that matter?
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Post Post #3227 (isolation #145) » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:25 am

Post by singersigner »

vote: Shadoweh
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Post Post #3232 (isolation #146) » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:31 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 3228, TellTaleHeart wrote:VOTE: mastin2

Oooooh...
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Post Post #3286 (isolation #147) » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:22 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 3280, Titus wrote:@Mastina, what do you think of lynching Aronis? Did you look at Gundam Seed? Does this DV look different to you?

@FFery, I'm little reluctant to go lurker lynch again.

Did you really just qualify TSO's lynch as a lurker lynch?
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Post Post #3334 (isolation #148) » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:25 pm

Post by singersigner »

Titus, what was the point is telling us what TSO was
not
?
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Post Post #3365 (isolation #149) » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:47 pm

Post by singersigner »

Lol, you think Mastin and Titus were trying to hardcore bus me when they had no reason to? Only to use Ffery as an excuse to give me a pass D1?
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Post Post #3449 (isolation #150) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:05 am

Post by singersigner »

Oh geez...the Titus wagon...so juicy...

I'm kind of uncomfortable with who's on it, though. I'm townreading at least 3/5, and leaning town on the 4th, with a null read on the 5th...but I don't really know that I trust anyone's read/case more than Cheetory since he's been the most engaged with the game and actually seems like he's trying to parse through reads. Whereas the others have this semi-absent/disengaged ere about them. I don't know that this wagon is fulled by more than just general misunderstanding or dislike of Titus, versus her actual inconsistencies and hypocrisy., and because of that, I can't really figure out what I trust more. :?

In post 3404, Titus wrote:@TTH, I do.
Name anyone townreading DV but me.


Also, are you implying Aronis is scum who knew TSO was town and therefore whiteknighted?

o/

In any case, Mina comes with this:
(quoting for effect with paraphrasing)
"I think that when singer joined the game, Shadoweh's posting because substantially scummier (from a mildly weak town/null read), so I'm not sure why there's this insistence that I'd have this super power of reading her. It's not like I'm reading the game as closely as singer (the player actually playing in it), and I haven't really even played with her that much...seven games??? I can only think of a couple, one being Pandora, where she looked innocent and sincere until she rode that town cred into a more scum-motivated posting pattern with her passive and scummy stances. Granted, that game was much better for her scum game if she's actually scum in this one, but everything she's done so far sounds easily faked. The first lynch basically was her going "I don't care what happens or who gets lynched but no one is going to look good after I target them ~discredit~discredit~discredit~". THEN her completely turnaround on out slot is no less than convenient after singer picked up a bit of pressure. What little I remember of her town play is that she's more blunt and actually trying to decompose a conversation to genuinely scumhunt, which is severely lacking here. HOWEVER, lately she's seemed cranky, which lends to a slightly less scum read than before, particularly when addressing me specifically (except for the fact that things get lost in translation, and even though singer is a pretty little princess that's worthy of all the pretty little flowers, not sure how the fuck she expects it to transfer from my words to hers
interlude where singer agrees!
). The only thing I really don't really get now is the trajectory behind this stubborn read of singer. It basically boils down to "she's calling me scum so...YEAH" as opposed to everything else/other scumreads which have been more subtle and passive. 1653 was the most damning, with her wishy-washy, all over-the-place-ness, though not as much upon a second reread...just...prickly..."
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Post Post #3491 (isolation #151) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:54 am

Post by singersigner »

With so many people relying on meta, someone somewhere is bound to be wrong. What happened to actually scum-hunting...

Also, the wagons I could get behind at this point are Shadoweh, CDB, AD, (probably Titus but it kind of makes me sick now), UT, and...meh, I dunno...I feel like I'm townreading everyone. -_-
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Post Post #3550 (isolation #152) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:56 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 3532, Oversoul wrote:Singer, whatever happened to your team's read on UT by the way?

I don't know! They've been calling for Shadoweh's blood and I've been resisting UT's read because his general insistence that we just need a lynch for information mirrored my own. Now that he's being suspected again I'm not really sure. i think my rteam has a reason that they're prioritizing Shadoweh and if she can't be lynched than maybe UT but I dunno?

UT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR TEAM'S THOUGHTS ON ME PLEASE AND THANK YOU I THINK YOU KNOW WHY.
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Post Post #3551 (isolation #153) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:57 pm

Post by singersigner »

lol I feel like mnollie :D
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Post Post #3552 (isolation #154) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:57 pm

Post by singersigner »

NO LAUGHTER DAMNIT
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Post Post #3553 (isolation #155) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:57 pm

Post by singersigner »

ok I had some time
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Post Post #3560 (isolation #156) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:13 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 3554, Titus wrote:
In post 3493, Titus wrote:Singer, let's see. Tomorrow for FFery's sake, if we can work out our differences. I liked your recent posting. I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on Shadoweh, but can you talk a bit more on CDB. That read I'm kinda iffy on. Just put it point by point.



Singer please.

I think he's really cheeky and I can't figure out where his priorities lie cuz I know he was in the place with scummers for the meet but then he's been not really around and I have a hard time trusting what little he's contributed because of bad the feels in my outhg so I think he should either be here or not or just claim scum because he's on my short list and I don't care
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Post Post #3562 (isolation #157) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:21 pm

Post by singersigner »

Regfan said we should wait until later with him :()
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Post Post #3563 (isolation #158) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:22 pm

Post by singersigner »

more like LEAVE FOR LATER
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Post Post #3565 (isolation #159) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:43 pm

Post by singersigner »

ok i might be finishing my second bottle of win
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Post Post #3567 (isolation #160) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:22 pm

Post by singersigner »

unvote
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Post Post #3568 (isolation #161) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:23 pm

Post by singersigner »

meeeeeeeh

[/b]vote[/b]titus
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Post Post #3569 (isolation #162) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:23 pm

Post by singersigner »

why did the first one work :(

ok vote: titus
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Post Post #3570 (isolation #163) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:28 pm

Post by singersigner »

FACEBOK ISN'T WORKNG FOR ME AND IT'S REALLY UPSETTING SO LET'S LYNCHED SOMENONE REALLY SOON OK BECAUSE INEED TO WATCH THE GOOD WIFE
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Post Post #3571 (isolation #164) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:29 pm

Post by singersigner »

WELL I MEAN I NEED TO FIND AN ILLEGAL STEAM TO WATCH IT
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Post Post #3574 (isolation #165) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:49 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 3572, fferyllt wrote:titus votes are terrible.

I want to trust Nacho I really do but sometimes he can be wrong and Titus trued to appeal to by emotion and I'm so sad over it so can you see my point of view?
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Post Post #3576 (isolation #166) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:52 pm

Post by singersigner »

>_> r u scum
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Post Post #3615 (isolation #167) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:54 am

Post by singersigner »

It's like Shadoweh doesn't actually
want
Mina's read. :igmeou:

I'll just quote this is every post until she acknowledges it. :]

In post 3449, singersigner wrote:Oh geez...the Titus wagon...so juicy...

I'm kind of uncomfortable with who's on it, though. I'm townreading at least 3/5, and leaning town on the 4th, with a null read on the 5th...but I don't really know that I trust anyone's read/case more than Cheetory since he's been the most engaged with the game and actually seems like he's trying to parse through reads. Whereas the others have this semi-absent/disengaged ere about them. I don't know that this wagon is fulled by more than just general misunderstanding or dislike of Titus, versus her actual inconsistencies and hypocrisy., and because of that, I can't really figure out what I trust more. :?

In post 3404, Titus wrote:@TTH, I do.
Name anyone townreading DV but me.


Also, are you implying Aronis is scum who knew TSO was town and therefore whiteknighted?

o/

In any case, Mina comes with this:
(quoting for effect with paraphrasing)
"I think that when singer joined the game, Shadoweh's posting because substantially scummier (from a mildly weak town/null read), so I'm not sure why there's this insistence that I'd have this super power of reading her. It's not like I'm reading the game as closely as singer (the player actually playing in it), and I haven't really even played with her that much...seven games??? I can only think of a couple, one being Pandora, where she looked innocent and sincere until she rode that town cred into a more scum-motivated posting pattern with her passive and scummy stances. Granted, that game was much better for her scum game if she's actually scum in this one, but everything she's done so far sounds easily faked. The first lynch basically was her going "I don't care what happens or who gets lynched but no one is going to look good after I target them ~discredit~discredit~discredit~". THEN her completely turnaround on out slot is no less than convenient after singer picked up a bit of pressure. What little I remember of her town play is that she's more blunt and actually trying to decompose a conversation to genuinely scumhunt, which is severely lacking here. HOWEVER, lately she's seemed cranky, which lends to a slightly less scum read than before, particularly when addressing me specifically (except for the fact that things get lost in translation, and even though singer is a pretty little princess that's worthy of all the pretty little flowers, not sure how the fuck she expects it to transfer from my words to hers
interlude where singer agrees!
). The only thing I really don't really get now is the trajectory behind this stubborn read of singer. It basically boils down to "she's calling me scum so...YEAH" as opposed to everything else/other scumreads which have been more subtle and passive. 1653 was the most damning, with her wishy-washy, all over-the-place-ness, though not as much upon a second reread...just...prickly..."
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Post Post #3616 (isolation #168) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:58 am

Post by singersigner »

GUYSGUYSGUYS.

I think Titus is actually scum and that's AWESOME.
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Post Post #3622 (isolation #169) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:06 am

Post by singersigner »

I come baring gifts from Regfan! Updated reads. Hooraaaaay!

Town (S->W): (Very very confident)
Cheer, Oversoul, Vezok, DV, Mastin, [Gap], GIF, UT, Formerfish, Aronis, [Gap],
(Very weak)
TTH, Esp, AD.
Null:
CDB, Gamma
Scum (S->W):
Shadoweh, [Gap], Titus, Bulb
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Post Post #3641 (isolation #170) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:34 am

Post by singersigner »

Things That Bother Me About Titus 101:
In post 2590, Titus wrote:Also, BBT said he didn't care for meta. Not surprised. He did link me to a past game.
BBT and I both share a disdain for meta, so yeah.

In post 2662, Titus wrote:@Singer, Stop with the discrediting. People have gone over the read. You have postured at every turn and stopped actually hunting scum. My team recommends not interacting with you to reset but I don't see how you could EVER flip anything but scum here. Zar, Empire, now you all had major issues.

As for meta, looking at personality to see aberrations is not meta. Otherwise everything is meta. Also people can have obvious meta tells. There are only a few with this.

What's the difference between personality and the way someone plays the game? I don't understand how you're cherry picking this meta argument when you've directly appealed to people looking at both your town and scum games, and even use it yourself
this game
...convenient??

Spoiler: Titus on meta
In post 2597, Titus wrote:Found it. Open 569 I was in abject pain from a car accident I was in.
I didn't bus because my meta was to never bus
but no I was throwing shade on all the major townreads there. I just cracked when I thought Sakura was pushing me for not replying fast enough.

In post 3109, Titus wrote:You see, I approach the game exactly backwards.

Find the box of what is possible first using the setup, votes etc. Then I look at role consistency. Then I look at motivation.
Then I look at behavior (which meta is a part).


That deduction is how I work.

That deduction is also how you detect my alignment.

In post 3126, Titus wrote:@Singer, supposing that's true, that's not true for a majority of the people pushing Bulba scum. The pattern has changed.

Also, yes, you're not likely to get the meta references.
Sorry about that, but it's simpler to refer to games rather than fall prey to the "As you know" trope.

@All, let's get this TSO lynch done. We can have two lynches today, but we have to get one done first.


In post 2721, Titus wrote:
In post 2719, Gammagooey wrote:
In post 2691, Titus wrote:Two days until lynch 1 deadline. If you're going to make a push on singer now is the time Gamma. I would prefer a singer lynch atm.

what do you think I'm doing? I just made literally the biggest post I've made all game about why I think singer is scum.

Esp can you give a few more reads? cheet & shadow & CDB are all people I'd like to hear more opinions about.


You had a fight with singer which is great attempt at showing it but I am thinking more bulletpoints. Short and simple. I will add mine. Mastina can add hers. Big walls can get lost to some and quickly labeled T v T just for being walls.

This is a huge appeal for someone to do your work for you. If you think I'm fucking scum, make your own damn case. Or at the very least, show exactly in someone else's where you agree. If you didn't get anywhere in Gamma's whole engagement from me, or his own wall/case on me that I was scum, then it's up to YOU to provide. I don't think anyone would argue that Gamma did his due diligence in trying to explain exactly what he thought of me, yet you're trying to pull for more because...what? You didn't think it was convincing enough for you? You wanted to seal the deal before you changed your mind about listening to Ffery's 100% accuracy rate of reading Empire so that it wouldn't come back to bite you in the butt later? Or did you forget about this gem:
In post 2936, Titus wrote:Really UT, you want to lynch Singer after that? Confirmed town pushing something that never fails and you want to go against it...why? That seems fucking shitty. I think there's something else underneath that Ffery finds in Empire and then tailors it but a 100% accuracy rate should not be fought against.
maybe you only said it to appeal more to the confirmed town?!?

In post 2891, Titus wrote:
In post 2888, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 2886, Titus wrote:I think there's maybe one scum on Singer (UT), possible up to three on AD given the speed of his wagon and scum possibly capitalizing on quicklynch desires and a couple possible on Espy...(yes I know that's too many scum).
you can't possibly know this kind of thing right now. this is bullshit disguised as analysis.


There's a difference between thinking and knowing. I can feel a wagon has a lot of town composition without knowing everything. If you took all of mygut feels, there's five scum. Since only four, obviously I am not purporting to know anything. You know I look at votes and say what I think on wagons. I have always said VCA is fallible without a scumflip. Why are you trying to make me sound more confident than I am?

This really sounds like someone justifying the way they pulled some bullshit out of their ass and got called out on it.

In post 3140, Titus wrote:
In post 3139, singersigner wrote:
In post 3136, Titus wrote:
In post 3132, Untrod Tripod wrote:when were you in NC??????


A few months ago I swung by the commune for a day or two because of wedding I was attending. It was cheaper to drive out to the commune than fly back sooner. Twas fun.

Yeah! It was around Memorial Day or something. I think that was the first time we met Antihero and we haven't seen him since???

We tried playing True American but it got a little dark and less fun for the people not drinking, but we'll have to do a redo if/whenever you make it out again. :]


Definitely. If you are on the west coast, swing by my place too.

But seriously, we should stop this. It's spammy.

This also really bothered me but I only slightly touched on it before. I'm not really sure how you feel justified shutting down our ONE RESPONSE DIALOGUE, calling it spammy, when you went on a rant on how to better yourself in game, which easily could've been done afterwards. I feel like you needed that conversation to better yourself NOW because you're starting to pick up heat for playing "the wrong way" and getting caught for it, so you can't afford to wait until after the game where your alignment is confirmed and people can actively give you adequate advice. You're soliciting coaching on the premise that you're town so that you can look more town when no one
actually knows you're town
.

In post 3493, Titus wrote:Singer, let's see. Tomorrow for FFery's sake, if we can work out our differences. I liked your recent posting. I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on Shadoweh, but can you talk a bit more on CDB. That read I'm kinda iffy on. Just put it point by point.
[/quote]
I think this is very much an appeal to get me on her good side the second I softened up and looked like I would see a town-Titus. Really fucking sketchy shit right here.

Regfan also noted where you try to encourage people onto someone based on the fact that confirmed town signed off on it, when previously you were adamant that both Mastin AND Ffery had to sign off on the votes. When did that change and why?
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Post Post #3642 (isolation #171) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:35 am

Post by singersigner »

oh crap, my vote was butchered as fuck. >_>

vote: Titus
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Post Post #3645 (isolation #172) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:57 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 3644, Titus wrote:@Singer, The response was to limit spam. The entire conversation with multiple participants was off course. If I was warming you up, why cut you off?

You cut it off before you made the post appealing to me. Then you called me maybe town question mark and then trying to make me agree to "working with you" like I'm just going to all of a sudden think you're town? Try to think about the actual events that took place before asking stupid questions.

As for the never wrong thing, shut up about things you know nothing about. I tild Ffery I was never wrong on Egg in Uncouyh and she raked me over the coals for it. Forgive me for showing a little empathy and trying to work with you because yeah she thinks we are both town. Maybe you could do the same.

You can't really bully me into feeling bad for disagreeing with Ffery. I wasn't calling you out about saying submitting to her read in the first place, I was calling you out for lashing out at UT for disagreeing with you about her 100% accuracy, then retracting that willingness to follow up on it upon your convenience. I think you're stuck because you've essentially committed to a town read on me because of her read on Empire, yet you think I'm, what, lynchbait? so you're trying to get other people to do the dirty work for you (i.e. appealing to Gamma's case). If you
really
think I'm scum, I think it's time to take what she says under consideration while thinking for yourself. You're using Ffery as a means to relinquish responsibility for your choices and now appealing to the fact that I'm not like it's a bad thing.

Yes I use meta for personality and hoe people think. I use it to explain how I think because no one gets me. It's frustrating as hell.

This is an appeal to emotion if I ever saw one. "Woe is me! No one
gets
me!" It's hypocritical and you know it. While hypocrisy isn't alignment indicative, it only makes you look scummy because it feels like you're using it selectively to your advantage to push your own agenda. Gamma kiiiiinda felt like he was doing this, but I admit I read too much into his emphasis (or lack thereof) on the meta argument with me.

Now I am going to ask you to stop scumreading me for being a decent person. If you cannot take an olive branch when I offer it, I will smash it.

I'm scumreading you for being a decent person? :lol: You're literally just twisting it into a way to make yourself look better when I said you look like you're trying to get me off your back. Can you not see how one might take it that way?
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Post Post #3647 (isolation #173) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:34 am

Post by singersigner »

I pointed out that people were in prod range because like Oversoul already stated, Titus is/was reaching negative utility at this point, and people were falling behind, being absent, etc. I've been very vocal about my disappointment in such. But now that you bring it up again, it's particularly interesting because Titus claimed to need a wagon on TTH to bring her back and engaged in the game, yet no mention when she went missing again. Another example of where I think Titus is just talking out of her ass.

With regards to the claiming issue: did you not want two lynches? I prioritized accordingly. I felt as though at the very least, a town PR would make it a priority to claim so close to losing the opportunity of another lynch that without it, it didn't seem like we were missing anything because she was either VT or scum.

What about the Titus wagon is scummy? You don't have to say because I'm on it; I think that's implied by your read of me. I am but one person, so I'd like to know exactly what/who you have a problem with?
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Post Post #3651 (isolation #174) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:30 pm

Post by singersigner »

I don't see how you could actually be pissed at me right now. You're not even adequately addressing your inconsistencies, so I'm scumreading you, and yet again, you're skirting the responsibility of "playing nice" onto someone else because your appeal to emotion didn't work with me. I'm pretty positive this is scum caught with a wagon she doesn't know how to get rid of, and now you're just channeling your anger onto me.
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Post Post #3657 (isolation #175) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:52 pm

Post by singersigner »

Ok Shadoweh, I'll concede to you not necessarily taking the UT approach to the lynch. I'll read through things again and try to take my confirmation goggles off. My team really wanted your blood but I'm prioritizing Titus because 1. She has support, and 2. I personally find her recent posting to be much worse right now.

Preview Edit:
Ffs guys whyyyy?? We're so close!
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Post Post #3658 (isolation #176) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:54 pm

Post by singersigner »

To put it more bluntly, I'm locked into my read/vote at this point. Few people even looked at the first wagon to analyze, and if there's another close-to-deadline scramble, I'm gunna be pissed.
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Post Post #3664 (isolation #177) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:58 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 3662, Cheetory6 wrote:Give me a day.
I could vote for Espe, but it would literally be entirely a vanity vote because it would have no weight behind it. I know it doesn't really matter, but I just feel like I want to be voting for nobody right now while in this mindset q.q

Why do you think there's no support behind a Titus lynch? There were six on her already, which leaves only four. I feel like there are people who haven't even had their say. There's Mastin, Shadoweh, Ffery (in spirit), Bulb, Oversoul, and DV who have outwardly expressed (I think) that they are anti this wagon, but I think UT doesn't care, gamma...maybe doesn't care? CDB...oof, who knows... Formerfish isn't around/caught up so I wouldn't count him, TTH, and AD? None of them seem to feel that strongly either way and this is one of the only wagons I
personally
feel strongly about. You say you'd hate to see scumTitus slip away...well don't let her! This is one of her most quiet days so far and I think it's because she's actually scum and doesn't know how to defend herself other than to appeal to the one person who she's apparently been scum reading the most!

I...can feel it...so close...
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Post Post #3665 (isolation #178) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:59 pm

Post by singersigner »

lol my team probably hates me, I'm making all sorts of decisions without asking them how they feel loool
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Post Post #3682 (isolation #179) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:08 am

Post by singersigner »

Nope! Not lynching CDB anymore!
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Post Post #3686 (isolation #180) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:03 am

Post by singersigner »

:( We're so close to deadline and that's where you park your vote? Why don't you like either of the wagons?
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Post Post #3716 (isolation #181) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:55 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 3705, Gammagooey wrote:calling me town for 3693 is dumb

It'd only be dumb if you hadn't already provided an example of what a one on one in real time with you looks like. I think your approach to it reads town. I wouldn't say you were town because of it, but because of your history of being willing to pick someone's brain and actually have a conversation with them to really figure them out before jumping to conclusions (or if you've already jumped to conclusions, being willing to mold your read based on the interaction), feels really hard to fake. You never asked a leading question, or one that felt like it would be a trick question...except for the whole alignment thing, but when you admitted you expected a different answer and the line of questioning kind of came to a halt, it meant that you weren't already preparing to call me scum regardless of what I said. It shows a willingness to constantly question yourself and not tunnel for the sake of tunneling, because like you said, tunneling is easy for scum to do.
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Post Post #3717 (isolation #182) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:55 am

Post by singersigner »

ITT...Why I Think Gamma Is Town 101.
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Post Post #3737 (isolation #183) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:36 am

Post by singersigner »

I have to work tonight, too, which is unfortunate, but my team and I would just like to comment that we feel pretty strongly that Titus is scum now, and she's been protecting Victor in one of her "town block"...it would be really nice for other people to comment on mine and Cheetory's case against her!
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Post Post #3741 (isolation #184) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:46 am

Post by singersigner »

@Gamma...meh, that's fine. I can confirm it or not after a flip. She's scum so she's either Victor, or she's playing along with this whole town block thing to protect someone, which we think is more likely because town blocks are incredibly silly and anti-town in general.

@CDB...mine are in and . Cheetory's starts in his ISO at .

Preview Edit:
Crap! I missed that. Nothing he's done really, I'm just really strongly opposed to another wagon building up in the same way it did with TSO. AD and Esp were both very close to being lynched and then all of a sudden TSO was "sanctioned" by Ffery and people ate it up (including me) because it wasn't a terrible lynch. Now the same fucking thing is happening with CDB after a wagon built up on both myself at one point and Titus, because it was "Ffery sanctioned" again. I'll stand here and watch it happen if only to ring up those who were on both wagons without thoroughly being able to explain WHY and not use Ffery as an excuse.
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Post Post #3746 (isolation #185) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:09 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 3742, Gammagooey wrote:ffery already said she doesn't want to vote cdb anymore so

no

i want an actual read on cdb from you
based on the things he has done in this game.

Oh, well in that case, I still don't like the wagon, but you're not going to get anything on CDB until tomorrow. His recent posts seem genuine and that's about as far as I can throw right now because I don't have time to analyze any further.

I really just think people are afraid to lynch Titus because she's loud and likes to bully people into doing what she wants (bully...eh, demand?), and since I have town reads on virtually
everyone
(save UT who...meh?) who was on her wagon, I'm 99.7% confident it wasn't scum driven, which means she either has the right town in her pocket, or scum are avoiding it, which means she really actually is scum, or...viktor now that I think of it...

In post 3743, Titus wrote:Who the hell is Victor?

Victor
Viktor?

Also, lol...that's the one thing you have to say right now...lol...
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Post Post #3747 (isolation #186) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:11 am

Post by singersigner »

If/when Titus flips scum I will seriously reconsider my scumread of Mastin, and not just because Regfan asked me to.
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Post Post #3749 (isolation #187) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:15 am

Post by singersigner »

I'm not even really sure what you mean by that. Like, at all.

Also, Mina signed off on not lynching CDB based on his recent posting, too. I'll have her put together something while I'm at work.
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Post Post #3751 (isolation #188) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:57 am

Post by singersigner »

Booooo. I like winning.

Anyway, Mina's also at work and says "gut" so maybe we'll get to it by tonight but my phone's so cracked I can't see half the screen so doubt it. Just...fucking-a. I can't believe no one's seeing how scummy Titus has gotten in the lasts few days...
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Post Post #3754 (isolation #189) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:16 am

Post by singersigner »

I...I don't think she could be faking it any harder...
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Post Post #3755 (isolation #190) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:19 am

Post by singersigner »

I don't know what I'm more offended over: the fact that she thought I would fall for it, or the fact that she thought she could get away with it...
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Post Post #3770 (isolation #191) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:47 pm

Post by singersigner »

I ended up with an extra hour and a half to my night cuz lolstarbucks, so I'm going to do Mina's work for her. Try not to think of it as anything other than
justifying our gut.
Actually Regfan agrees so now it's fact!

It started with his most recent reads post in , which a lot of people are calling out for being easy, even though the only viable lynch target is ActionDan (I say him instead of Espy because I feel like anyone who had any strong conviction about lynching him has convinced themselves not to). Sure most of them are lurkers, but don't you find lurkers hard to read? I think they'll have more support than anyone that people are actively conflicted over, so it's not like it's really an easy stance for scum to take either. I think scum would prefer lurkers to stick around because they're easy to target when left with nothing else, not when it's D1.

Then in he doesn't even begin to justify a survivalistic hop onto either me or Titus. I think it would even be pretty easy to target Dan again at this point, but instead goes back to someone that, like I said, not many people would prioritize over Dan. Yes I know he eventually moved there, but it would take a lot of foresight to plan a more town motivated move onto a vanity wagon before making a scum motivated move onto an easy lurker lynch.

In he actually makes me paranoid again by bringing up RRR and how he thinks he can manipulate his ability to make pro-town-looking posts, but I see a difference in the way he played there versus here. Now this I really can't explain. It just is.

Now in he breaks down my case on his leading counterwagon, and could
easily
find reasons to hop onto Titus right now, yet still chooses not to. Unless they're scum buddies, I read this as very genuinely trying to decompose the motivations behind her posting and coming up with his own, genuine conclusions (as opposed to regurgitated ones). I know this was after the fact, but I think this is the most recent example that supports how Mina and I feel he's developed into a townread of ours.
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Post Post #3773 (isolation #192) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:38 pm

Post by singersigner »

*sigh*

vote: ActionDan
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Post Post #3774 (isolation #193) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:39 pm

Post by singersigner »

^inferiorlynchbutbetterthanCDB^
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Post Post #3810 (isolation #194) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:59 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 3806, ActionDan wrote:Maybe I'd spare him for Aronis. maybe. I still don't really like the conviction he had telling Vezok to vote me when he had a shitty case and knows it. Also not really thinking about other viable options like Aronis.

The claim is reasonable, but it's not alquin. It's a tracker claim.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you activity and contributions to games make for a default perfectly acceptable case, so calling it a shitty case is short-sighted and ignorant.

I guess I'd do Aronis but this last comment is just really shady. :?
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Post Post #3828 (isolation #195) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:23 am

Post by singersigner »

ActionDan it seems like activity is only a problem when you're not currently being discussed. With RRR you were plenty inactive, and in just about every game I've seen you in previously. There's a pattern, and just because you happen to take exception to that when you're being wagoned, doesn't me it's suddenly "not an issue anymore."

And calling back to my previous town read of you to defend an entire history of posting (not to mention your most recent ones in this game) is reaching, don't you think?
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Post Post #3829 (isolation #196) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:23 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 3825, DeasVail wrote:And my desire to lynch someone other than CDB has increased!

Hooray! Together we can have it all!
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Post Post #3877 (isolation #197) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:22 am

Post by singersigner »

Man, every time I'm willing to ease off Titus she says something INCREDIBLY STUPID. She's a much better lynch than ether AD or CDB.
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Post Post #3879 (isolation #198) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:25 am

Post by singersigner »

Stupid means she's making calculated efforts not to do her research after consistently getting on everyone's butt hole about "not reading." But it's apparently ok when she does it and uses it to purposefully say inflammatory remarks just to make someone else look bad/worse. Ugh.
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Post Post #3880 (isolation #199) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:27 am

Post by singersigner »

Also, what's so strong about a 1/3 ability to track and 1/9 of an ability to do both track and role cop?
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