Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[singersigner]

Not lynching Mastin, either. Regfan won't let me no matter how wrong he is about us. I really don't see how you think Mastin is a more viable lynch than either Titus or AD. I will lynch either of those two. Not touching CDB even to get a lynch, sorry.

[singersigner]

Ffery, is there any time for you to explain the TownTownTown on Gamma/AD and the Town on Titus/Shadoweh?

[singersigner]

What's fucked the fuck up is that we don't even have enough fucking people willing to even be around and hear a fucking claim before making their fucking decision. Way to fucking park your vote and disappear and be super unfucking helpful. YES I'M COMPLAINING ABOUT THE HELPFULNESS OF PLAYERS AGAIN TITUS WOULD YOU LIKE TO USE THAT AGAIN. Geezus fucking-a, Gamma, what the fuck are you thinking with a Mastin vote right now. Do you realize there's been a grand total of like four people around to even change their vote again? Titus makin the big plays of not being around when it counts after being so adamant that we stick to the deadline of the first lynch (yes, yes, irl and all, but seriously...let me go count the amount of posts you've made since your biggest wagon, real quick...).

Mastin, Oversoul, Shadoweh, all with their fucking vanity wagons right now (I don't think I've used the word "vanity" to describe a wagon ever but look at me now!). Cheetory, GiF, Aronis being what...stubborn? Can't even be fucked to have a vanity wagon right now.

[singersigner]

Gaming at 3 today. Off to play skyrim to try and wake up.

FFery, you have basically dismantled many wagons today. That readwall would be great so we can get a lynch.

How the fuck are you blaming Ffery for dismantling all of these wagons when you're only voting people she approves...

[singersigner]

VOTE: mastin
Sheeping and I have dumb reasons to like this vote.

P-Edit: Hey singer.
Vote for mastin or say why you don't want to vote for mastin. Because your WKing sideliney-ness is starting to get old.

Regfan thinks Mastin wouldn't ever gambit a soft-claimed role that will inevitably die as scum. He thinks she wouldn't do something that would incriminate her as scum because she likes to endgame, and claiming something that will die eventually/early(?) doesn't allow a lot of wiggle room.

[singersigner]

Titus has ZERO votes on her by the way, for comparison.

Gee, I wonder why!

People decided to derp wagon obvtown and are now deciding to derpwagon hours before deadline. Maybe we shouldn't make the same mistake as TSO? Hm?

[singersigner]

My team is yelling at me to stop this CDB wagon and I don't really know how.

@Cheetory...I can understand your points, I really do, but every time I bring up Mastinscum in our chat, Regfan insists it's not her MO. I don't know what to tell you because I can't exactly defend her wagon, but I can't really stop it. I'm more focused on why you dropped Titus like *that* and why you're in favor of Mastin over AD who's been rung up several different times now, yet dropped by a counterwagon at the drop of a hat. Seems pretty sketch.

[singersigner]

unvote
vote: Titus

I've already said why I think Titus is scum repeatedly. I don't really have the time or effort to go into ADscum, but my whole team basically switched their read on him based on recent posting. Everyone thinks Titus is linked to Shadoweh somehow, but since there's virtually no interest for Shadoweh, Titus it is!

Preview Edit:
Oh shit, that was Shadoweh, not Ffery...

@Ffery...I literally only leaned on your/Nacho's townread of me once (and really only Nacho's) with my conversation with Gamma based on what I

thought

he was bringing up more seriously about meta and experience with me. If you're referring to me bringing up Titus' change of heart with deferring to your read on my slot, that was because I thought she was scummy for it, not because I was trying to convince her she should just listen to you... I find more fault in using a "town block" as a way of bullying people into reading you the way they want you to and threatening people who disagree.

[singersigner]

ARGH. Gamma and I are both going to be gone and I CAN'T DEAL WITH THIS.

How the fuck is CDB not going to get lynched at this point?

[singersigner]

No where did I say I was getting wary of Cheetory for unvoting Titus and voting Mastin. Everywhere did I say it was stupid.

[singersigner]

Im back. And lynch is where?

You make me sick as a player. If I had a choice I'd never have volunteered for the late because fuck players like you and Titus who make this game miserable for anyone to play, let alone win. And yes! Regardless of alignment!

[singersigner]

Whaaat

[singersigner]

Ok I don't really think you're wchm I am just really angry that becauseo u unvoted a wagon on basically my biggest scumread at this point has dissipated and I got my hopes up and it sucks. I'm

[singersigner]

And Espy has seemed town because meh? I think other people are way scummier and the way the wagons developed has just really pointed to not him being scum. No one has specifically ~avoided~ his wagon, and it doesn't feel like it really developed as a counter to anything but a claim:I dubno, I guess he can flip but I was really looking forward to something I really wanted to happen!

I'd eve support an Aronis wagon over Esp or CBD, if not AD

[singersigner]

I'm trying really hard not to look at my phone but I've been hiding in the kitchen trying to forgive out where the wagon is going and WTF I gues Esp is better than CDB but seriously...Titus...we were so close...

[singersigner]

Bane: TTH
Choose: lock

[singersigner]

If he's a VT it doesn't hurt, if he's scum, which there is every reason to believe considering how yesterday played out, it can only help.

Why don't you explain your thoughts on "how yesterday played out"?

[singersigner]

I felt like he and CDB were copout wagons to Titus and AD. That's how I would answer if I had to make up an answer. Otherwise, I really didn't feel like it at the time and then I was trying to hold out to see if there was anyone else willing to vote (I was literally hiding from Gamma and Reck in the kitchen) and there apparently wasn't.

[singersigner]

Of note, pending the validity of CDB's claim, scum clearly weren't afraid of it.

[singersigner]

Also, does this mean you'll fight me on getting a Titus lynch? Because we were so close yesterday...

[singersigner]

I said he should be the lynch from the moment I replaced in, and since then many things have transpired, and I no longer think this is the case. Do you think I have plans to push a mislynch on him now?

What do you make of AD's immediate vote to bane Esp with that theory?

[singersigner]

Why would the choice make a difference of who to bane?

Why would TTH's confirmed towniness happen before the end of the Minor Day?

[singersigner]

Oh look! Scum wants to know how to kill me!

@Bulb...that makes sense. I like that thought process a lot actually.

@Cheetory...I assumed it would be at the start of day, too, but I had no problem pressuring her in the meantime. You're making this difficult.

unbane
bane: ActionDan

[singersigner]

@Titus: I'd prefer to not bane Singer. I agree with CDB that banes need to be on those that we don't prefer to lynch the next major day. That's why I think Esp is preferable. It'd also allow us more time to sort him.

And you wonder why I think she's full of shit when she says she thinks I'm scum.

(no I know you didn't actually wonder that...)

[singersigner]

Oooooh, I didn't realize that the bane changed every day.

Well then I retract my statement about her trying to figure out how to kill me.

unbane

Why would baning a claimed VT make a difference, then?

Also, I was referring to TTH and my team's instinct to pressure her into explaining herself, but then you unvoted and it takes away that pressure.

[singersigner]

Ok I just reread Bulb's explanation and I still like it now that it makes even more sense than I thought it did before.

bane: Titus

[singersigner]

Baning her gives her a day to recalibrate and Ffery doesn't roll over in her grave. If Singer is town, I would like her to reset. If Singer is town, with her reads, she'd likely hurt more than help.

How is any of this solved by baneing her?

Well she's dumb town or scum

. Either way, I would like her not to be acting.

I understand why you have to resort to comments like these, but I still feel like you could do better.

I'll humor you, though: what makes you think me as "dumb town" would have any action to take that would be of any consequence to Titustown? How would I "hurt" more than help?

[singersigner]

Actually, Titus has some pretty clear reads.

Clear reads=right?
or
Clear reads=independent?

Because I'm really not following where she's had super independent reads that go beyond the scope of "I don't want to disagree with Ffery."

[singersigner]

@Singer, These roles are not normal. I got no clue. GiF thought his role meant doctor. I do know that dumb town can hurt. Scumplay is about weaving a narrative. Dumb town play into that narrative and are mislynches.

I feel really strongly that I'm not a mislynch for your scumteam.

Preview Edit:
Hmm...then why do you think he was killed over anyone else? Could you provide us with some wagon analysis I heard you're so fond of?

[singersigner]

I guess that would only be worthwhile with a flipped scum, huh. Scratch that.

Do you have examples of this predisposition to using that as a means for calling yourself a doctor? Who else uses/knows this term?

[singersigner]

Clear reads as in I know where she stands on certain players regardless of what Ffery thinks. Compromising and working with players does not mean that you don't have reads of your own. I think it's pretty obvious who Titus thinks is town and scum.

She's not compromising though, falling over backwards to accommodate ffery would be more accurate.

I don't think that's the case at all. Titus was trying to get Ffery and Mastin to work together, but

she's never wavered in her reads and actually pushed them very hard

. You're oversimplifying Titus's play with a slant to the negative if all you're looking at are actions that took place near the deadline.

This is pretty false. She dropped her read/pressure on my slot pretty hard after hearing Ffery had never been wrong about Empire before. She keeps finding excuses to disagree with her, even though her reaction felt pretty concrete.

You know what, though? Scum know everyooe's alignments and can pretty easily call someone town and find a way to stubbornly justify themselves. The same isn't true for scumreads, though, since it's harder to commit yourself to someone who you know you'll be wrong about.

[singersigner]

Lol, "contain [me] to give [me] a chance to rehabilitate"...then, what, I'll ~magically~ see the light? Contain my ~magical action~ that you seem to think I'll ~magically use~ use against a ~magically town Titus~ by mistake? You realize that kind of statement can only come from knowing I'm town, right?

You either want to lynch me because you think I'm scum, or you want to bane me because you don't want to risk me "making a mistake" with you. Which is it? Because you're not acting like you're convinced I'm scum, but rather like you're scared of me.

Preview Edit:
For Titus:

I guess that would only be worthwhile with a flipped scum, huh. Scratch that.

Do you have examples of this predisposition to using that as a means for calling yourself a doctor? Who else uses/knows this term?

[singersigner]

She dropped her read/pressure on my slot pretty hard after hearing Ffery had never been wrong about Empire before.

Ffery was also asking that we give her a day and not lynch you. I suspect that had a lot to do with it.

I was referring to this:

Really UT, you want to lynch Singer after that? Confirmed town pushing something that never fails and you want to go against it...why? That seems fucking shitty. I think there's something else underneath that Ffery finds in Empire and then tailors it but a 100% accuracy rate should not be fought against.

Preview Edit:
So you were the only one who would've known he was crumbing a doctor? And now he's dead. HM.

[singersigner]

@Singer, My crumbs tend to be gibberish. He did something no one else would understand but for me and him. He drew a doctor and I mislynched him as confirmed town and he wanted to avoid it because he was townreading me.

I think you're scum or dumb for this game. Neither are good to have act.

@Espy, Banining you if you are town means we do not bane scum. Opportunity cost.

Also, that's fine, because I've never been more convinced you're scum, so resorting to calling me dumb is to be expected. My ego can take it.

[singersigner]

Mental note not to forget about Bulb

or Titus

following up with 4191 but at the risk of turning into Titus, I'm making myself go to bed.

Preview Edit...after this:
I'm can quite positively say I have no idea what you're talking about, but you're starting to resort to petty insults which is pretty telling that you can't think of anything else to compromise my alignment.

And I'm also pretty sure I have no idea what UT being in the game, or scum for that matter, has anything to do with YOU retracting your willingness to fight Ffery on her read of me. It's not just about me being lynched, it's about

her read

. You were pandering to his going against her

accuracy

and now you've conveniently decided it's not so accurate anymore. THAT is what you haven't explained. THAT is what you've been dancing around by trying to call me scum but maybe dumb town and now maybe bad town question mark?

And before anyone tries to suggest I'm using Ffery's read to try and conftown myself, I'M NOT. I'm using Titus' literal words out of her fingers onto her keyboard to show that at one point SHE was willing to take Ffery's word for it so much as to imply someone ELSE was scummy for not doing so. It's not about Ffery's read itself, it's about Titus' reaction to it.

[singersigner]

EBWOP: technically her read on Empire, not me.

[singersigner]

No, you're trying to give me an opportunity to scumhunt anyone but you.

So why did you say "100% accuracy should not be fought against" if you weren't intending on not fighting against it?

You say you're trying to "give me an opportunity to scumhunt" but all you're doing is being condescending to me. I think you're trying to bane me because you legitimately don't have a case to lynch me and you know it. Baning me, from your mouth, gives you an opportunity to "contain" your biggest threat.

Preview Edit:
I know I did say I was going to bed but now that it's relevant and actually pressing for answers, I don't feel as spammy so

I felt from the beginning that DV was town and haven't really looked at him since my initial read of the game. Zar thinks he's scum.

Regfan recently brought up that FF needs to post today, if not, I should put more pressure there. He's been very nonexistant in this game since he replaced in and to be honest, I forgot about him until I gave my team my most recent reads list to look over. I thought Marquis was town but mostly because he made me also want to post with exclamation marks. >_>

[singersigner]

I promised ffery/Nacho not to lynch singer. Sadly, I intend to keep my word. She will not be lynched.

Bane: singersigner

.

...I didn't say anything about not

baning

her.

I really for the life of me don't understand why Regfan is townreading you so hard.

[singersigner]

I gave you what I got. I tend to ignore people I don't feel strongly about. I'll look back at them tomorrow, though.

Though FF's replacing in and not showing up is concerning. I generally read that as scummy since I've usually only ever seen promises for content with nothing to show for it coming from scum. This is independent of Marquis, though, so I'll try to do an unbias ISO of him tomorrow.

@Titus...since Cheetory brought it up, could you comment on how you differentiate how you dislike meta but continue to compare behaviors to past games? I know you said something about there being a difference between meta and personalities...but, I'd like to hear more about what you find different and how you've been using it to determine alignment-based motivations in this game?

[singersigner]

I'm more willing to drink the kool-aid on DV atm.
Singer's starting to irk me with her almost too intense self-assuredness on the Titusread though.
I also don't trust you at all so there's that too q.q

Plot twist: we're bussing each other.

[singersigner]

I'm more willing to drink the kool-aid on DV atm.
Singer's starting to irk me with her almost too intense self-assuredness on the Titusread though.
I also don't trust you at all so there's that too q.q

How do you feel about Mastin's position on me?

Preview Edit:
How did you know!

[singersigner]

@Singer, Bussing and tactics are changable. Without a massive effort personality is hard to change. So I look there as a baseline.

Ok, I think this clears up a lot of where we've been misunderstanding each other. I've never used the word meta to differentiate between personality versus tendencies, since I think either can be manipulated, it's just what you trust more. When I ask about meta on players, I want literally just a whole scope of how you see their play to be parallel or not from game to game. For example, players can be more aggressive in certain situations as certain alignments, which I find to be a part of their meta, but you just call it a symptom of their personality.

Am I understanding that correctly?

[singersigner]

Can you direct me to where you thought it was universally understood/believed that GiF was unlynchable? Or where it was obvious that everyone knew you knew his role? Who would be framing you from the town block and why do believe it's likely a frame targetting you?

[singersigner]

Can you direct me to where you thought it was universally understood/believed that GiF was unlynchable?

My first reaction to that statement was "whuh?" but, actually, I totally believe that town-Titus would think GiF unlynchable by that logic. While that

might

also sound like a reason for scum-Titus to kill GiF, that post feels like it's coming from a town perspective (if Titus thinks this would be the obvious consequence of how she interacted with GiF, I don't know why she'd align herself so closely with him as scum, both to make him more "lynchable" in her head and to mean that a GiF kill doesn't immediately point to her).

something I meant to say in that post but forgot is that Titus would believably think that

everyone

would see GiF as unlynchable as she does even if I don't think it could be more obvious that a bunch of people think very very differently to her about a lot of things.

Please don't excuse her play as "that's just what Titus does" or "that's just how Titus thinks." She's made a VERY big deal about how she's trying to better her play but you're just making excuses for her to keep playing poorly with her particular logick train if she's town. And if you don't mind, I need to hear it from her. I don't like

scum

people being spoon fed excuses. Feel free to interpret her answer as you wish, though.

Also, we're (me/Mina) on the TTH train now, though a lot of Regfan's case on Shadoweh was contingent on them being scum together so I will ask for updated feedback where that's concerned.

Also, also mental note not to forget about looking back at DV/Marquis.

Also, also, also...I guess I could get on board with a mastin bane? I don't think Regfan would object strongly to that. I actually don't know that there are many people I'd object to baning at this point because of Gamma's logick train.

@hitomod...does the bane affect passive abilities or only active abilities/actions?

[singersigner]

@CDB...did you ask hito what a track would return as a result to any actions that didn't go through because of sign shenanigans? No result? Or no response?

We could always bane a lurker that probably wouldn't be using their theoretical abilities anyway!

I agree with Cheetory, I see no reason why this Minor Day should last very long except to clarify any residual issues from the end of Major Day One and bring everyone to the current gamestate (talking about replacements and people who are behind).

Preview Edit:
"for some reason"...do you think your reason is good enough to lynch him?

[singersigner]

Espeonage's attitude towards self-Baning Today feels pretty VT. I'm not sure I'd lynch him any more, despite my anger that he didn't die Yesterday.

I can and am seeing it as scum knowing that they're living past their expiration date

Why would that make him more likely to sabotage the rest of his scum team?

@Oversoul...I wasn't actively making the choice to not lynch Espy at the time until I decided not to vote him when I maybe could've had the opportunity? I would've hammered for sure, but I didn't see anyone put him at L-1 so I gambled in waiting. In hindsight someone could've been doing the same thing I did, which was poor choices. But it makes me feel like if he ever flips town, all of the scum would've already been at his wagon considering no one else moved their vote to ensure a lynch. Doesn't make me want to lynch him 'just to see' though.

[singersigner]

I know she hasn't responded to this point yet, but something just seriously feels off about Titus having this serious insight as to why GiF died 'to set her up' despite not really having any reason to believe that, and then not being able to offer how anyone would've known that only she would be able to pick up his breadcrumb? I get that I'm reading bleeding scum from everything she posts now, but even through rose colored glasses that's shady.

@Titus...can you also comment on my assertion about our misunderstanding with regards to meta, and elaborate on the point above as much as possible?

@Cheetory...you're right, it is! Womp womp.

[singersigner]

So 1. I didn't say it felt off that you didn't respond, I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt by admitting the fact that you hadn't yet had the opportunity to explain yourself more thoroughly, but if you read too much into it, then...I guess I can see how you might be overly defensive about it??

and 2. Your ISO is about a gajillion posts right now but since you wouldn't find it yourself, I did your due diligence. Here is where I found your declaration that GiF claimed his role to you. And here is where I found you claim you knew GiF's role and he knew yours, which no one really seemed to pay any attention to. What I DON'T understand that you have yet to answer is how you think that made a difference in scum's choices last night and what gave you the impression that GiF was unlynchable just because you said you wouldn't lynch him. Mastin was equally townread by you yet he seems perfectly capable of gaining heat, and you by Mastin. Tammy/Oversoul were also declared town in an unlynchable way by you, with virtually no heat on them, but you consider them less town than GiF?

What also bothers me about you claiming to have known GiF's role and then asserting that scum is trying to "set you up" is that 1. it's the biggest piece of wifom shit I've seen in a long time, and 2. why not kill you so you couldn't corroborate a claim from GiF or use your stubborn townread to defend him? That seems like killing two birds with one stone as well, yet you seem to pretty confidently suggest

this

was clearly the plan, when no one brought it up but you. Literally. No one. But you. Suggested it had anything to do with you.

[singersigner]

Ok.
So.

With regards to DeasVeil

-He seems to be pretty interactive and questioning in his early ISO, which I tend to like as town because that tends to be my tendency as well (tendstendstends).
-He engages mostly with a few people (Tammy, Titus, and Zar/Empire) but that's not really alignment indicative. His interactions hover around his town reads and not so much his scum reads, though, which I'm not sure how I feel about.
-I think his solicitation of an explanation for Empire's meta townread of him seemed scummy at first because it's like "convince others I'm town!" but then he pressures him more for not really being able to explain it well, which reads as genuinely trying to ascertain Empire motivation in townreading him.
-I didn't quite follow his jump from TTH being one of his strongest scumreads to not wanting to lynch her.
-Because of this I noticed he stopped paying as much attention to the game
-I noticed how he said that cops "better not waste their time doing that" in 1833 which is a pretty weird thing to say if you're town!
-In the same post he says it's pretty easy for scum to be inconsistent and I highly disagree. I think it's a lot easier for scum to commit to reads for the better part of the game, whereas town are constantly evolving their reads to allow for more calculations. The statement isn't scummy, but if that's how he feels, then it's something I'm going to watch out for.
-OH OK IN THE SAME POST HE ALSO EXPLAIN HIS TTH PREFERENCE TO NOT GET LYNCHED WHICH IS SUPER FUCKING BAD. So he's deliberately trying to keep a scumread alive in order to let scum agonize over whether or not to kill him?? He recognizes her claim to be confirmed D2 which he comments could make her town but unlikely! Later he says he clearly explains why he wants to not lynch her but this post is full of flippy floppy wifomy womph womph that doesn't really make sense? I can get why you might not what to Bane your biggest scumread because you want to leave them for a lynch, but I don't get why you wouldn't want to push for your biggest scumread. Like...you and Titus both are like "well, my biggest scumread, etc...but we can keep you guys alive for now..." I don't understand the town motivation in that. At all.

That's about 2/3s of the way through his ISO...the rest is comments on the Esp wagon and end of day pandering that doesn't make sense out of context, and then some more "too busy right now" posts. I'd say he's somewhere within the 10-person scum team we have in this game.

Preview Edit:
Ooooooh. That probably means good things for Aronis. I don't really know how stacked a scum team of four would be since my sense of balance in mafia is WAY OFF, but since there seems to be a decent amount of soft-claiming/PR potential, I'd say it's not unlikely that each scum would have some sort of ability, even if it's lite.

[singersigner]

Zar, would it be possible to elaborate a bit on Empire's meta townread of me?

He's around now, he says that off the top of his head, you're self conscious and a lot more stiff and awkward when you're scum; basically your care a lot more about your image; when you're town you're more relaxed and don't really have a filter (he's going off the top of his head, he hasn't played with you in like a year).

Why does he have a confident read in me then if it's off the top of his head?

It's a joke with my team that everyone is scum because everyone sucks. I was implying that he's in the scum 50% of the game.

Anyway, you want me to look at your games and look at your personality as both town and scum? Fuck no. If you post nearly as much in any other game as you do here, it's not worth it. I think your logick train sucks, I think you've been hypocritical, and I think you're double-talking just so you don't have to outright answer incorrectly the first time.

I don't have a fundamental misunderstanding of your personality, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of logick. If that makes you town then...like...I seriously don't know how anyone ever town reads you for it.

I do have my mind made up because I'm as confident about you being scum as Mastin claims she is about me. If you think that makes me scum then vote me for it, otherwise, stop complaining that I need to do my work to "meta" you and actually prove to me that I'm wrong about you.

Why did you bring up GiF's role before anyone else did? Why did you suggest it was scum setting you up before anyone else did? Why do you feel so strongly (see how I didn't use the word confident there??) that his death has anything to do with you?

[singersigner]

Oops, ignore that quote, that was when I was doing DV's ISO. >_>

Preview Edit:
CDB YES THAT. Geezus fuck.

[singersigner]

Yeah that. I was mostly just talking to AGar in the kitchen and checking my phone to see if anyone (Esp) had been lynched/voted but I didn't want them to know that's what I was doing. >_> I don't really have a good answer for why I didn't actually end up voting because if I had voted, someone else might've been inclined to hammer, so I'll own that. I just think Titus is throwing shit out there about scum letting Esp live to save as a mislynch later...I really don't see why they wouldn't have tried to get him lynched yesterday since the outcome would've been the same.

I brought up GiF's role solely because people wanted to know why I was reading GiF so hard. I don't believe in lying so that was why. I suggested scum setting me up because I was asked why scum would kill GiF. I don't feel strongly. I was speculating as to possible reasons.

It is a reason to kill GiF CDB. Burning mislynches is NOT something scum like to do early. Plus, if they try and fail, they have two unkillable townies, which isn't good. I'll admit, maybe I could have played it better as I'm not subtle when I'm blocking off mislynches but I did and scum killed an unlynchable townie.

So as far as I can tell, this:

@Singer, These roles are not normal. I got no clue. GiF thought his role meant doctor. I do know that dumb town can hurt. Scumplay is about weaving a narrative. Dumb town play into that narrative and are mislynches.

is where you bring up the role, which from day start was entirely unsolicited. Where were people asking you why you were townreading GiF so hard? And the second part, I personally asked you why you think GiF was killed

because

you were commenting on his role. As far as we've seen, you were the only one who knew/picked up on his role (because literally anyone could see your comment and go ok whatever), so it's kind of weird that you then offered the exact piece of information you claim scum would be framing you for?

I'm also really tired of you acting like everything boils down to your influence. You can only be at fault for GiF's death

if you were the one who killed him.

You're playing the "woe is me" card like you could've, should've, would've done better if only you were better at this game! This is not a town mind set to continue appealing to emotion by claiming you're bad and want to get better to continue defending your bad play/presence this game.

Now, I've told you exactly what I have a problem with, and you seem to be incapable of explaining exactly why you think I'm scum other than to retort to everything I say with "you're either bad or you're scum lololol." You keep saying "if you're not even gunna try then what's the point" like whether or not I try would make a difference. I'm either scum or not, Titus, and I'm asking you to stop toeing the line using Ffery as an excuse. Please fortheloveofgod tell everyone why I'm scum. I'm literally begging you to make your case now and allow the town to make their Bane/Minor Night 2 decisions based off your case and we can go into the lynches accordingly.

@Formerfish...it's nice to see you finally enter the game. I suspect with three full nights you've had the opportunity to catch up a bit. Please share your thoughts with the class as soon as possible, plsandthx.

@Cheetory...Glork's brother is in town so my rereads are on the backburner from what's going on right now and might take a bit. I will look at Marquis/FF when I get a chance and hopefully have some input to analyze from FF by the time it gets done.

unbane
bane: Mastin

This or Shadoweh are acceptable bane choices.

[singersigner]

I was telling AGar I was ignoring him because of the game. I was talking about the game. I didn't want them to hear me talking about the game. I don't know how you're not understanding that.

[singersigner]

ITT Titus is afraid I'm going to target her with this theoretical ability I have! That's not something that looks sketchy at all! Not with all the potential PRs that could clear/protect her! Nope, looks threatened! Anyway, that's my theory. I'm fine being baned to make her feel better because I'm sure now that people know this is out there choices can be made accordingly.

Re: CDB/Cheetory...I've only really skimmed it so far, but I really feel like Cheetory is reaching to find something scummy about CDB. I don't know if that's because he genuinely thinks he caught something (my aforementioned town read of him makes me think yes?) or scum trying to discredit a town PR, but I personally don't thinl CDB is lying. As town, he would know that he's a distraction to scum right now, so his comments about Aronis would make sense from that perspective. I did bring up that it seems like scum weren't threatened by him, but what I didn't think about was the fact that scum would've already had to plan their targets of a PR (blocking or killing) assuming they have to match a sign they haven't matched yet. It seems likely that they wouldn't have chosen Aronis or CDB at that point.

This only furthers my theory that Titus has been planning GiF's death from the beginning, but I digress.

Preview Edit:
Sorry, thought I unbaned at one point but I never submitted my post.

unbane
bane: ActionDan

[singersigner]

boon: CDB

[singersigner]

Ok so I apparently missed her actual claim but even still, she's either going to die because she's the doctor or scum can take a gamble with her. A track is more useful town utility when it's guaranteed. It's not that difficult a decision, IMO, but if you feel threatened by a guaranteed tracker then...

[singersigner]

How much don't scum want CDB to have the boon right now.

[singersigner]

OK. Titus has been bothering me for a while now, and it seems like people have been skirting around commenting on her. I finally went to ISO her from when I replaced. Here's some scumTitus porn for everyone:

@Titus...what's the difference between this:

Two days until lynch 1 deadline.

If you're going to make a push on singer now is the time Gamma. I would prefer a singer lynch atm.

and this:

I guess I'll have to address it if no other wagons have formed by the time I get back later, singer ... do you have a particular post or two that best sum it up?

I did read your Shadoweh case btw, thought it was relatively unexciting despite my feelings on that slot.

My interpretation: Please make a better Shadoweh case so we can mislynch her.

Because those two comments seem to imply the same interpretation that you're only attributing to CDB's comment and not yours.

Also, since you never got around to doing this yesterday, could you indulge me with actually following up with this:

@Singer, I'll read your post more when I'm not pissed at you but no I don't see how you find someone reaching out to you as scummy especially when known town asked for that.

Also, also, why do you hate me on the AD wagon (like what about it do you hate) but vote him in the same post?

Also, also, also, could you comment on how you were so aware of Alquin's existence but not Viktor's? You specifically noted how his PM was in the first post...along with Viktor's. I'm also not sure how you knew about the risk of a higher KPN that you talk about twice, if you didn't explicitly read Viktor's role PM, as that was the only public way of knowing about it...

[singersigner]

@Singer,

The difference there, is that I'm already persuaded before Gamma and trying to work with him. Nothing about his case on you was weak at all. Yet, you try to get someone to push harder on a case that you admit is weak. Rather than actually scumhunting the case to check logic or find the errors in it, you want CDB to post more content. It's easy as scum to sit in the shadows and take pot shots.

Fair enough. Gamma did already make a pretty big play for me being scum at that point, though, so my interpretation was that you didn't think there was enough support. What exactly did you find strong about his case on me?

The context in the post was confusing. Of course I'm aware of the Vicktor role. Yet, you were speculating about me being partners with Victor. It's a meaningless statement akin to saying I'm scum. Yet, you were trying to devine some partnership from it. So yes, the question of "Who is Victor" is absolutely appropriate. I'm sure there's a few reasons why to read one PM and not the other, even if we supposed your fallacy. But how do you reach the conclusion that a) I

have not read

Vicktor's PM and that I'm scum? You should ask your buddies who are providing meta how likely it is for me to be scum and not be aware of

all

the ins an outs of the game. That's the only way scum!Titus wins. Hell, that's the only way intelligent scum win. So if you actually believe that I did not read Victor's role PM you should be clearing me, but you are not. (It should be clear that I

have read

that PM and that's not a reason to clear me at all but I'm only bringing it up to show a fallacy on Singer's part, namely what

she

should have concluded). When Gamma said that you're context was "baseless", that was actually being polite. I would have gone with choice words that I'm sure would do nothing more than piss people off rather than being productive.

Let me make this very clear: I didn't actually come to the conclusion that you didn't read his role PM. The exact opposite, actually. I came to the conclusion that you HAD to have read the PM, but the "who is viktor" commentary implied you hadn't, or were at least pretending not to. You asked who Viktor was after I very clearly said that we were speculating it was either you or someone in your townblock which couldn't possibly be speculated on until a scum flip, so I'm not sure where the confusion was on your part.

Spoiler: Here's the context!

I have to work tonight, too, which is unfortunate, but my team and I would just like to comment that we feel pretty strongly that Titus is scum now, and she's been protecting Victor in one of her "town block"...it would be really nice for other people to comment on mine and Cheetory's case against her!

@Gamma...meh, that's fine. I can confirm it or not after a flip.

She's scum so she's either Victor, or she's playing along with this whole town block thing to protect someone

, which we think is more likely because town blocks are incredibly silly and anti-town in general.

Who the hell is Victor?

Who the hell is Victor?

Victor

Viktor?

Also, lol...that's the one thing you have to say right now...lol...

@Singer, Yes, I'm not commenting on your comments regarding Viktor because

I don't even know what you're saying

. So rather than dodge my question, why not tell me who the hell he is so I can contribute?

Also, you absolutely are wrong about townblocks being anti-town in general. Townblocks serve a purpose to shut off mislynches. If there's a group of people all townreading each other, it forces scum to either a) discredit (as you have with me and Mastina) or b) buddy them or c) pray for rapid death of the townblock. I find it no coincidence that Mastina's pushed sequentially right after that.

Now, are you done wasting time since I'm so throughly discredited no one in their right mind would bane me? What's the point of attacking me

now?

No one is putting forth baning me, and I'm falling out of townblocks. It rather sounds like a chainsaw defense of the CDB boon wagon.

This sounds like scum who's lost control.

We have a claimed doctor and a claimed investigator. Rule 1 of mafia setups.

Follow the cop

should not be a recipe for a town victory. Follow the cop has only been possible once, but the cop was a serial killer that was untouchable by the scumteam (I'm still pissed on that one). The more logical action (considering the depths this setup got reviewed), is that scum have a roleblocker. Booning CDB ensures that he's either dead or roleblocked. So what's the point in booning him? So you are right that I'm very against Booning CDB. Most people should be. Yet, the analysis is looking at the fact it's

possible

that CDB gets an investigation. I highly doubt it.

How would booning the doctor be any better?? You're talking about booning the claimed doctor who would get a guaranteed protect on everyone but themselves because who knows the details about the bulletproof/scum roles in the game? Are you taking that risk because you have a strongman on your team? Like maybe it just comes down to which risk you're willing to take, and I'll concede to that. But calling it a sucky boon seems overkill if you're not willing to fight it.

Now, if you'll excuse me from your pedantic exercises, I have something more productive to do. Like wash my car in the rain, change my new guitar strings or pretty much anything else.[/quote]

[singersigner]

Crap, messed up the last part of my quote but basically everything is the same.

Why would TTH think DV is a high priority kill given the amount of suspicion DV is under?

CDB is at boon minus 3. Quickly losing hope for the smart play.

He wasn't under any suspicion at all by the time the Minor Night 1 actions were chosen/submitted.

[singersigner]

Spoiler: DV reads post

I've read up and there's not much I want to say except people want to lynch me, woooo, and I'm pretty ok with a boon of CDB.

Boon: CDB

--

More read stuff.

I've read through Gamma quickly and have pretty much lost the will I had earlier to lynch him. Still possible scum in my mind, but at least a level or two above what he was before.

Pretty sure Mastin is town, and same with Oversoul.

Ok I think I'm wrong on Shadoweh too. That's fun!

Singer is someone I don't want to lynch soon, so what I think of her alignment right now isn't incredibly important. It's probably town, but I remember being concerned about her posting at the end of the first major day.

Now TTH is someone I may still think is scum. I haven't been able to (and won't be able to) have a thorough check of this, but does it actually say anywhere that the unlockable VT knows they're the unlockable VT? Or is there some other way that TTH would not be clearly town? I ask because I'm suspicious about there only being one kill last night. Scum probably would have seen me as a high priority night kill during the first minor night, so I would consider it reasonably likely that they would prep detects on me. Obviously however, I would have been a much lower priority nightkill during the major night to the point where scum may even have considered it beneficial to not kill me. There are other potential explanations for there only being one successful unmake, and for that reason plus me having become public enemy number 3 or so, I don't expect anything to be done about this now, but I worry about TTH.

Titus I still think is town.

UT is actually entering my scumlist for reasons in addition to what others have expressed. My reasons for not wanting to lynch him have likely been disproven though I'm not completely sure, so I'm happy to have this read on hold until the next cycle thing.

Vezok is town pretty sure.

"More read stuff." There's not a whole lot of commitment to your reads. >_>

Why isn't my alignment important right now? What concerned you about my posting at the end of Major Day 1?
Cheetory already asked this but what are you wrong about with regards to Shadoweh?
Are you speculating on TTH's alignment based on the fact that you're not dead?
Why do you think Titus is town? Could you find time to comment on my recent posts about her when you're more caught up?

[singersigner]

Alternatively, you were purposefully vague so much so that I wasn't the only one who thought you didn't know who Viktor actually was in the game and could use whatever misinterpretation to your advantage! It should've been pretty clear by my reaction that I didn't realize you were asking me to specify exactly who I thought Viktor was, so do you think I was slow-playing it to set up this massive slip I thought you had?

Besides, you've already done an outstanding job at deliberately marginalizing yourself this game with your claims of not being good at D1 or discussions with Ffery about wanting to get better, etc. It's not like it's a new strategy/concept for you this game.

Preview Edit:
HEY FORMERFISH HAVE YOU CAUGHT UP YET BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING AN OUTSTANDING JOB OF NOT DOING ANYTHING.

[singersigner]

No one's around, Titus. This has been the slowest the game's been BY FAR. I'm not making the discussion harder. People not discussing it or making a choice is making it harder.

And what same question? I thought you were making fun of me because I mispelled it, but when I clarified you still said you didn't know what I was saying, so I said I thought you were playing dumb then. This isn't new...

But for to give you the benefit of the doubt, our theory was that it was Shadoweh (which shouldn't be surprising) but since there haven't been any scum flips, it wasn't something worth delving into. We were just arguing over how strong that theory was at the time because Mastin also seemed like a decent candidate. Your wagon stalled, though, so I speculated it could've been you.

Again, it's pointless to call out someone specific without an actual flip, which you would know, so that's why I thought you were trying to be cheeky about it.

[singersigner]

You didn't ask me to comment on Mastin at all. You just asked me to tell you why CDB was better/what the point of booning him was. So I did.

We have a claimed doctor and a claimed investigator. Rule 1 of mafia setups.

Follow the cop

should not be a recipe for a town victory. Follow the cop has only been possible once, but the cop was a serial killer that was untouchable by the scumteam (I'm still pissed on that one). The more logical action (considering the depths this setup got reviewed), is that scum have a roleblocker. Booning CDB ensures that he's either dead or roleblocked. So what's the point in booning him? So you are right that I'm very against Booning CDB. Most people should be. Yet, the analysis is looking at the fact it's

possible

that CDB gets an investigation. I highly doubt it.

How would booning the doctor be any better?? You're talking about booning the claimed doctor who would get a guaranteed protect on everyone but themselves because who knows the details about the bulletproof/scum roles in the game? Are you taking that risk because you have a strongman on your team? Like maybe it just comes down to which risk you're willing to take, and I'll concede to that. But calling it a sucky boon seems overkill if you're not willing to fight it.

In fact, I specifically said it came down to the risk you're willing to take, not that it was a shitty boon. Which is also why I felt like you were going overboard calling the CDB boon actively bad...which I also said. I think scum are more likely to want the unverified BP doctor to be booned than the tracker.

More importantly, did I sufficiently respond to your most recent comments in 4681? Or were you projecting me ignoring a question you never asked onto me?

We have to take some risk to get the reward.

What's the risk? What's the reward? We can't 100% assume either one of the claims are true but we can assume certain motivations or intentions and deduce how we feel from there. You're pushing the agenda that people are wrong or scummy or stupid for wanting to Boon CDB over Mastin, but at LEAST there are three town on each wagon. Who's wrong and why? Where's the wrong/scum/stupid motivation for people wanting to trust a claimed guaranteed track over a claimed guaranteed doc?

[singersigner]

Yeah don't mistake that as me calling you town.

If I didn't have such a town read on Cheetory I'd say Mastin's boon is entirely scum who's afraid of CDB's track. But *shrug* if you want to pretend that my point wasn't that at least three town had to be voting for the CDB wagon compared to the three people on Mastin's and therefore couldn't be a terrible idea because lo and behold Titus isn't the endall sayall of what's good or bad in this game, then go for it. You'll have to find a way to convince everyone.

If you want to go back and point to the posts where you clearly articulated these points already, that would be more helpful than you posturing about how I'm just now willing to discuss things when I've clearly been willing to by my last several posts. But with regards to your point, I don't think a Mastin protect is worth much since there's no guarantee either is telling the truth anyway. A scumCDB would have a very hard time fighting through no results and explaining himself without being killed over and over again, but a townCDB would at least give us more information than someone who may or may not be targeted by Mastin anyway.

[singersigner]

Alright I'll say it since you seem to be too dense to acknowledge it: statements like "I'm a dead woman" or "I'm a walking dead woman" don't come from someone who's bulletproof without stipulations. Now, I'll ask her to keep that to herself since she doesn't need to divulge any more information than necessary, but you seem to have it in your head that this bulletproof doc (WHICH HOW CAN YOU NOT EVEN QUESTION HOW FUCKING POWERFUL THAT IS IN A GAME LIKE THIS OH RIGHT BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO APPEASE YOUR BIGGEST SUPPORTER) is infallible and can't be penetrated by scum for whatever reason...maybe there's a hidden mechanic we don't know about! Or maybe there's a hidden mechanic YOU know about that you know won't be an issue is she's booned. It's all fucking speculation, so no. it's. not. wrong.

[singersigner]

If scum are roleblocking CDB, wouldn't they also be keeping him alive? And if Mastina's BP, wouldn't that keep her alive? And if she gets a successful save off, wouldn't that have the option of keeping three people alive? Everything you're suggesting that will allow two saves no matter what are equally applicable to a roleblock being used toward CDB, but with the net gain of a potential result based on mechanic madness.

[singersigner]

You don't get it.

No follow the cop allowed.
Scum have a roleblocker.

I'm not valuing Mastina's doc anymore than CDB's track. I'm supposing that neither will happen to any significant respect. Rather, it's Mastina's bulletproof that I'm valuing more. By booning her, we force scum to block her, thus keeping her alive.

By keeping her alive, we have her prowess available to crack the fucking game.

How do you know scum have a roleblocker?

Also, the bolded is chalk full of crap and you know it. No one trusts Mastin's reads as much as you claim to, and lo and behold, she's town reading you, so that's not worth much. If she's BP she'll be alive anyway, so why the speculation? Why wouldn't you assume scum would roleblock her anyway because they're not worried about CDB? If, as you say, Mastin's more valuable...

[singersigner]

How do you know scum have a roleblocker?

[singersigner]

Loool, you don't kiss ass well...you literally kissed Ffery's ass all of yesterday with only lynching "Ffery approved" lynches, so much that you made a 180 back off of me

because of her

. Then you tried to appeal to me on a few occasions, so how can you feel like you don't kiss ass well? Because it's not working?

[singersigner]

we might actually want to claim failed/non-failed traces on people to see if anyone sticks out as Viktor

but I'd rather that wait until after the first lynch at least

There are so many things that could go wrong with this I can't even.

[singersigner]

vote: DV

[singersigner]

yay friendship.
But seriously though, UTwagon seems pretty dumb to me and I really fail to see how anyone can't get behind a DVwagon when it's literally been waiting to happen for-fucking-ever now.

Well I ISOd him a few days ago and didn't find anything particularly egregious that I couldn't then reconcile with another post of the opposite alignment. His last few posts of MD1 were pretty terrible, though.

[singersigner]

^This guy knows what's up

[singersigner]

So Titus what do YOU think of DV?

[singersigner]

"Ass-backwards"?

Who's

really

pushing him (or had been from yesterday) and where are they wrong?

[singersigner]

"Ass-backwards"?

Who's

really

pushing him (or had been from yesterday) and where are they wrong?

Reread the start of the day k thanks. Just for the lazy. TTH thinks Bulba's scum. That's wrong. You think I'm scum and that's wrong. Cheetory's foundation on DV is inaccurate.

So what you think of UT and Vezok?

UT is crazy amounts of IDGAF right now and I've very explicitly said Vezok's one of my biggest townreads.

And do you just mean the beginning of Major Day 2? Because I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and allowing you to comment on the previous people who've suggested DV's scum/scummy. What about Mastin? She has a very explicit town read on you, but a pretty definitely scum-read on DV...is she wrong about both??

Also, what happened to this sentiment:

@TTH, I do.

Name anyone townreading DV but me.

Also, are you implying Aronis is scum who knew TSO was town and therefore whiteknighted?

I'm not following how your read on DV devolving from a town-read based off his Gun-something game to "need to hear more from him." People are trying to get him to engage but he's saying his head isn't in the game so what do you make of his posting toward the end of Minor Day 1 and how can you take a pot shot at me for "not reading the beginning of the day" when you made it clear you didn't think anyone was explicitly town-reading him?

[singersigner]

@UT...do you

actually

think Gamma's scum?

@Gamma...why do you think UT is scum? And what makes him worth lynching first if at all when we have a night to burn? Yes, I know,

even if he's scum

, what's the point of the mechanic if we can't take advantage of maybe lynching two

other

scum today and leaving UT to suck it over night?

Like...I get why you just want to disregard it and lynch all teh scumz! But there's a pretty obvious reason why it's not so black and white to do that.

[singersigner]

I haven't pushed DV for jack shit. I'm voting for pressure. I'd vote FF for pressure, too, since he's basically done jack all of nothing since he replaced in and yet only a few people have muttered his name.

And when I said "or from yesterday" I meant "or from yesterday" so...yeah, I really would've loved your comments on the people pushing him then before I had to ask again! I also just said I had a hard time following where your read went. What are you doing to "see more" from him if your read's changing?

So am I suspect, or am I scum? Are you regurgitating that because I had previously mentioned that I found stubborn reads to come more often from scum than town?

Preview Edit:
Gamma...how is that different than every other UT game? He's actually the same as RRR and it's not like I want to reward that kind of behavior, but why wouldn't that be equally applicable to people like AD or FF (again, had done jack shit)?

[singersigner]

Also, I had a long talk with my team (and I mean pretty lengthy) about Shadoweh last night, and it's one of the few reads we can't really come to grips with. I admitted I was basically regurgitating their read on her and I personally didn't really find anything WOW SCUMMY from her, and actually found her posting toward the end of the day to be quite town, if not a little out of character with regards to her responses to me. This is not a lynch I will pursue anymore (incoming "there was never any support anyway").

I think I will support any lurker lynch or Tituslynch today.

@CDB...yes...you're right...but only slightly!

[singersigner]

Reck's Retrospective Rehash.

And I did ask you a question, Titus: what are you doing to engage with DV and "see more" from him?

I've also literally only jumped up your butt this game, and yes it's because I'm tunneling, and yes it's because I think I'm right, so don't try to blanket statement that I've "forced myself onto people" or that I'm not "trying to work with them" just because I'm not agreeing with you. If you've noticed, I'm actually trying to engage with you and am not currently voting for you, so if townTitus feels so strongly that I'm scum, you might as well make your case for either, or try to engage with me to actually find out my alignment which you seem to sidestep every time I ask you to tell me how I'm scum.

Preview Edit:
Why did you edit my quote to make it look like I was saying you were the one who had done jack shit when I was talking about FF...?

[singersigner]

@UT,

Why is Gamma scum?

Pick someone make a case on them.

Could you do the same? pls n thx

[singersigner]

I'm talking about the behaviors you guys have exhibited this game thus far, mutually exclusive of alignment. UT's been just as weird, unreadable, flighty, etc as he was in RRR, you've been V/LA, not around much, short responses here and there that don't give much of a feel for your reads like you were in RRR, FF has just...made excuses, really. All of these behaviors are suboptimal. I probably could've worded that better, but I'm saying that his approach to the game isn't that different than usual, which I was also applying to you, which I then grouped FF into because of the whole not rewarding that kind of behavior thing. The "again jack shit" was in reference to me having just said that he hasn't done jack shit...can you really argue with that?

[singersigner]

Could you point me to where you genuinely feel as though you're breaking a pattern that's been arguably ingrained in many of our heads, as evidenced by UT's initial push on you toward the beginning of the game, and by my 100% willingness to follow it? You became a seriously lynch candidate at the time you conveniently became more available, so I'd honestly like to know where you think we should've seen the difference in your play that doesn't directly relate to you being lynched.

[singersigner]

After that, as I've stated twice in the post above

Like...ok...I guess I can't

force

you to go over your ISO and actually point me in the direction to which you felt differently about this game. Are you seriously offended by the insinuation that you're not a very engaged player unless you're a viable lynch candidate, at which your participation skyrockets, and then kind of levels off just enough to hopefully not get lynched again?

@Cheetory...I think it's because you have my support and no one really trusts it because no one thinks I'm good at this game...not that they have much reason to think so, but I genuinely don't see where I'm going wrong with my push on Titus and I would love to be told I'm wrong by someone other than her by something other than being ignored. I've been told I need to stop backing down on my reads because that's when I can be manipulated out of them...

[singersigner]

unvote
vote: FormerFish

Ok, I can keep other pressure on the backburner for now. I really think it's time to get some input for FormerFish that isn't excuses or generic regurgitated reads. He was supposed to be fresh eyes yet has made 20 posts in almost 20 days...

[singersigner]

so why are we fellating ffer's reads and not GiF's or TSOs?

they're confirmed town too

[singersigner]

I'm not saying I actually care about taking their reads into account, I'm just saying people need to stop treating her word as God's unless they actually have something to back it up themselves. I already told you my theory on you/GiF. Do you think he's saying the same thing about you in the dead thread now that you were the only person who knew he was a "doctor"?

Stop appealing to their town reads on you.

[singersigner]

There are more than a few things that interfere with that theory without having a roleblocker. Try again.

[singersigner]

Theeeeen vote Titus instead?

[singersigner]

unvote
vote: Titus

[singersigner]

Am I the only one who sits down and thinks about the actions of both town and scum to determine the most objective action? :S

You are the only one who doesn't apply occam's razor.

Why in the name of whatever you curse at would I come forth as scum saying I traced someone who is confirmed town? Do you think I have a death wish as scum?

I suppose both town and scum are equally capable of doing Occam's Razor.

Town you would need to need to disclose that since massclaiming traces and detects is stupid.
Scum you would want to claim that in advance in case someone traced you.

Occam's Razor says that claim's more likely to come from scum.

If someone traced him, he wouldn't have gotten a result from TTH, which he would've known when TTH claimed to have not gotten a result. Unless you're implying that there's a really awkward trace circle going around.

And...didn't you claim to have detected on minor night one? Occam's razor says you're scum.

[singersigner]

@Titus...iou wanted to get signs to the doctor, why did you support a lynch on the person whose sign you had just narrowed down?

[singersigner]

Why did you want GiF to protect TSO as opposed to Mastin, or yourself, or Shadoweh? It looks like you were starting to scumread TSO, so much as to argue against the Boon on him, before Minor Night 1 where you would've done your action, so why the change of heart? Why not allow TSO to have the boon if you were going to detect him to crumb his sign to allow GiF to protect him?

[singersigner]

My flip reveals people as scum. ika tends to townread people I'm scumreading and I do like a modicum of conflict around me. It keeps me from being buddied as hard. TSO wasn't a big scumread and someone ika may have wanted healed. I was trying to detect the signs ika would find useful, not what I would do as doctor as I can't force ika to make smart decisions.

You're telling me that you were trying to feed someone not actually in this game (ika) information on someone that they haven't actually given a comprehensive read on (TSO) over someone that they were actively and publicly townreading (you/Mastin)?

I'm still waiting on your read on anyone who isn't a lurker or me Singer. The more you stall and redirect from the fact you aren't scumhunting, the more I want you lynched.

That's fine. I 100% would love to see you

actually

try to get me lynched instead of just threatening to do so.

[singersigner]

Singer, ika and I go way back and have our own language. If I had the same relationship with Mastina, I would have detected last night. I don't. If I can selectively tell information to the slot I believe to be the doctor, you bet your ass that I will indeed do that. Mastina and I both were under heat. Scum killing us would have given the town information. I made a judgment call as to who the best player was to check that night.

I'm still waiting on you to scumhunt instead of nitpick. A read on anyone.

TSO was also under a bit of heat by the point, so I'm talking about the town reads both you and GiF had in common. Can you point out exactly where you felt like you were crumbing to Ika and how? Scum killing anyone gives the town information and the information I'm getting is that you knew GiF was the doctor and made it a priority to kill him.

And I'm still waiting on you to tell me/everyone why I'm scum. I've given the reads that are pertinent right now. I've given reads list, in fact. Not much has changed other than what I've stated outright in thread. If you're going to get haughty over me not reading your posts or being "lazy" for asking you to point things out, and then not do your own research, that just makes you look bad, not me.

Preview Edit:
Damn, TTH...that sucks... >_> lol.

@UT...are you at least willing to humor Gamma/the rest of the people who are interested in lynching you right now? I'm not gunna lie, I'm not going to be willing to avoid your lynch for long.

[singersigner]

I'm not gunna lie, I'm not going to be willing to avoid your lynch for long.

I'm kind of wondering why you're doing it now.
Why are you doing it now?

UT's the kind of person I can't read. So. I don't. But he's also not the kind of person I policy lynch. So. I don't.

[singersigner]

I mean, I'd do it to get a flip, but like...Titus...

[singersigner]

I mean, I'd do it to get a flip, but like...Titus...

Titus is likely not going to be lynched today because of the number of people, including me, who think she's town or town enough to be left alone for today.

Beating the "you're scared of specials" and "you're not really pushing me" drums are not likely to change that either.

Have you even read anything I've said about her? Like...please be honest. I think Shadoweh was the only person who read my case on her because she was the only one who noticed the links were off. Most people were like "nah she's town" but Titus was the only one who attacked my case saying it was dumb, but how could she have even known how dumb it was if she didn't even notice the broken links?

It's like she doesn't care about actually finding scum or discerning my alignment.
She tried to use Ffery's read on Empire to attack UT for still wanting to vote me, and now she's going against that because she's scumreading me for..what?? If I knew then I could maybe talk to her about it and figure out where she's wrong.
As much as she's attacked me for "not being willing to work with her" she's literally done the exact same thing.
She has this special bond with Ika, yet never addressed his questions about why she found me scummy in the first place, which is weird for how much she was trying to appeal to him through GiF.
Now I'm trying to draw it out of her and she has yet to articulate why she thinks I'm scum except to toss around buzz words like "discredit" or "redirection". Repeating those things do not make them true.
I don't understand how she's getting away with her weak excuse of GiF's crumb to her and how he ended up dead, or her suboptimal excuse for why scum wouldn't kill her (because that gives us too much information??).
She's pushing the all of the weak wagons with UT, Espy...the only one who she would actually be challenged on is mine and lo and behold, she hasn't even pushed it! She keeps soliciting other people to do it for her without pulling her weight and when I call her out on it, she "redirects" (see what I did there) back on to me about how I'm not actually scumhunting when I very clearly am.

Then there are so many holes in her play that I've already stated, and I honestly don't know how to more articulately state how fucking scum she is. It would be really nice if anyone but Titus appealing to Ffery's read on her could actually engage with me about why she's town, and if not, at least address where I'm wrong in my observations (read our interactions from 4662 to around 4679) other than "this is just how she plays" because that's a terrible reason to support a terrible logick train that is obviously influenced by scum.

[singersigner]

Why do you want to lynch UT?

Did you look at her interaction with me with regards to Ffery and Empire and wanting to lynch me, then not wanting to lynch 100% accuracy, and now trying to make my slot lynchable again? How do you feel about the way she's been pushing me?

And if you had an example that's more recent than her being on the site for two months+a couple of games that would be good. I already sited my issues with pulling up games from another lifetime for reference. "This is literally how she plays" shouldn't negate the hypocrisy (ok not a scumtell but highly suspect), the other discrepancies I've pointed out, the inconsistencies with her choices and pushes this game, plus the AtE with trying to better herself and play differently, for which when she was attacked for it, she gave more AtE. All of that you can just excuse with "that sure is Titus!"?

What's fucked up is that I genuinely feel like her responses to my posts are with the sole purpose of not allowing anyone else respond to them and therefore get lost in the midst of everything else. I waited hours (and I mean

hours

) for someone but her to respond to my posts last weekend, and it ended up being her first anyway. I don't fucking get it. I mean, I get the whole lazy town, gloss-over, skimming posts, etc...I just never thought it'd be this real with someone as passionate about a scumread as I am.

[singersigner]

@Bulb...I only brought up Occam's razor because Titus was responding to I think vezok who had already used it... >_>

I'm also curious as to your thoughts on "she's not that dumb as scum"...wouldn't you think that a smart scum Titus would know that, and then be able to manipulate that? That's a pretty terrible/weak defense of her. I think she genuinely thought that with her level of engagement/reasoning with someone who's now confirmed town, she thought she could get town credit by being like "look how much he trusted me!"

What do you think of UT, AD, or DV?

[singersigner]

Singer, how many of your teammates agree with your Titus read? They seemed to be super involved early but now not so much?

I don't have any more recent games with Titus. For reason, lol.

Bulba, why do you dislike those three people?

Well since all of them have been/are essentially V/LA, they haven't really given much thought as of late. I explained the one in depth conversation we had about Shadoweh, and Zar seems to have conceded I won't drop Titus even though he keeps playing devil's advocate with me. Mina thinks Titus is town, and I think Regfan...doesn't think she's as town as she once was? More of them actually agree on DV scum which is new a weird since I thought he was really town at the beginning, but then when Cheetory asked our opinion of him I ISOd him and I can see DV scum, too.

@Bulb...what exactly did you like about FormerFish?

And your logick train was basically "she's not stupid enough to do this" which can basically be said of anyone who's good at scum. Scum are fallible; if she thought she would get town credit for it, then I absolutely think she wouldn't consider it a mistake, or a "too stupid to do this" moment. It wasn't my argument, it was yours, so...not sure why you're making it mine.

She actually kind of reminds me of Shea, who prides himself on double-talk and being able to wordsmith himself out of scumreads, that when he does get caught as scum, he refuses to believe it was because of anything he did, but rather "luck." He calls it "town being right for the wrong reasons" and hates it. This is basically Sheascum in a nutshell.

[singersigner]

I'm not refusing anything. I know you're scum but you should really stop putting words in people's mouths.

Who do you need me to explain my read on? Would you be willing to show me the same courtesy (finally) and explain your read on me (finally)?

@Oversoul...yes, why would Titus begin discussion on why GiF was killed? Why would she offer TSO's "not sign" heavily implying she was some sort of PR which one could only assume was to maybe draw the nightkill question mark? In which case why wouldn't she then try to crumb her own sign after publicly outing this fact question mark? Why would she then speculate on how scum was setting her up with literally nothing to back that up at ALL as she was literally the FIRST PERSON TO EVEN SUGGEST IT AS THOUGH IT WAS PREMEDITATED OR SOMETHING? Why does Titus town or scum do ANY of these things?

[singersigner]

I'm 100% amazed at the way Titus is talking about Vezok's outward admittance of something he did/noticed as scum while people are claiming hers is town. Fucking. Un. Real.

[singersigner]

I'm starting to feel like Titus is avoiding commenting on a case on me because she knows that if she starts engaging in a case v case that people have to choose between, she'll have to account for all of the things people are missing by the sheer volume of our engagement. I wish I could say that ignoring her will let people just read what I have to say about her, but I'm afraid she'll spam over it.

I'm vote parking on Titus until people come back and actually convince me why I should be scumreading anyone else right now.

[singersigner]

Have it your way. I'll make sure to keep people accountable for it later, though. I know I'm just being obnoxious about it, and probably the worst person to play with right now, I'm just tired of being beaten off by the three-ish people who are scumreading me right now, and anyone town reading me is either ignoring everything I have to say or just like "oh poor misguided singer."

unvote
vote: FormerFish

This is something my whole team can get behind right now.

[singersigner]

Ok well here:

Cheetory
Oversoul
Vezok
CDB
Mastin
------------->line of OH SO TOWN
Shadoweh
TTH
Aronis
UT
------------->line of lynchability
AD
Espy
Bulb
FF
DV
------------->scum
TItus

That's where I, personally, am at. You can feel free to engage with me about any or all of my reads regardless of the transparency with them that I've already given freely.

Preview Edit:
Re: FF...his catch up was shallow (which is why I was surprised Bulb found it good), and speckled with excuses and inactivity. He's been a non-presence this game. Regfan didn't have a town read on Marquis, even though I did until he started AtEing it up. I just find his presence lackluster for agreeing to replace into a large game. He basically needs to show up or we're taking it at face-value of disengaged scum.
Re: UT...well I've already given my thoughts on his play with regards to it not being alignment indicative. I will lynch for a flip but not finding anything particularly outstanding in the ways of UTscum. They agree.

[singersigner]

Have it your way. I'll make sure to keep people accountable for it later, though.

I know I'm just being obnoxious about it, and probably the worst person to play with right now,

I'm just tired of being beaten off by the three-ish people who are scumreading me right now, and anyone town reading me is either ignoring everything I have to say or just like "oh poor misguided singer."

[quote="In post 4987, "singersigner"]I'm starting to feel like Titus is avoiding commenting on a case on me because she knows that if she starts engaging in a case v case that people have to choose between, she'll have to account for all of the things people are missing by the sheer volume of our engagement.

I wish I could say that ignoring her will let people just read what I have to say about her, but I'm afraid she'll spam over it.

[/quote]
Um, yes...? I feel like I got sucked into exactly what I hated about you when I replaced in. I even said that at one point along the way. I think it's really easy for scum to hide in the midst of such spammy posting, and my biggest concern about you is that you will respond to me first (especially while I've been trying to engage with other people about my findings on you), and essentially thwart off any effort by anyone else to engage in what I have to say.

With regards to UT...he's actually been pretty present in the game. He hasn't posted much content at all, but I think he's reads are constantly evolving. He's being really transparent and not afraid to change his mind, which I've also already said is hard for scum to fake.

With regards to voting FF...because I initially had a townread of DV, so if I'm wrong, I'd like to give him the opportunity to show me I was right in the first place. I think FF has had ample time to come back and engage in the game, but he hasn't. I think either wagons are likely, though, so I would probably vote either one. People are just more afraid to vote for lurkers because they "just might be wrong" about them, but ever since the Baltomeet Invitational, I'm a firm believer in lynch-all-lurkers, and kick myself whenever I don't follow through with it and they end up being scum.

[singersigner]

EBWOP:

Cheetory
Oversoul
Vezok
CDB
Mastin
------------->line of OH SO TOWN
Shadoweh
TTH
Aronis
UT

Gamma

------------->line of lynchability
AD
Espy
Bulb
FF
DV
------------->scum
TItus

Added Gamma cuz memories are hard guys.

[singersigner]

Um ok so not evolving. That was a terrible way to describe his willingness to jump ship from wagon to wagon. I think he's willing to challenge the status-quo which I'll admit, gives me warm giblets, since most of it was his approach to just wanting a flip to gain information. He's not really elaborating on his reads, but he's willing to give them. He's willing to bark up the wrong tree. I honestly don't know UTscum, but I assume this kind of behavior comes from either alignment, so again, I don't really know what about it makes it scum, except that this behavior is pretty easily targetable as a mislynch. Same as vezok's just because vezok doesn't always articulate things that well. That kind of thing is easy for scum to sluff off as a scum read because it's hard to defend as an insider-knowledge town read.

Preview Edit:
He's not a lurker. Did I ever say he was?

I honestly think his reaction to Gamma was a lot like my gut reaction to Gamma. If someone's very wrong about you, especially a town read, it's going to throw you off, and you're going to have a hard time understanding how someone you're townreading, is all of a sudden pushing bad logick trains. Even if it's a good logick train, how do you react if they're still wrong?

[singersigner]

*sigh*

I'm just more interested in the people we can't sus out who could actually be a threat tonight, to be honest. He's not a hardcore scumread of mine, so I'm not really interested in pursuing someone who doesn't threaten us right now unless I have to. There're still plenty of votes to be placed, and plenty of catchups to be made, so I don't have to.

[singersigner]

How do you agree with counterwagons between the two while only encouraging voting one?

[singersigner]

How do you agree with counterwagons between the two while only encouraging voting one?

VCA. Plus it can highlight if I am wrong, which I doubt.

Yes but if you're telling people they're wrong for voting a counterwagon, you're essentially telling them they should only be voting the one wagon...which wouldn't be giving the counterwagon you're agreeing they should have. Am I missing something here?

[singersigner]

Can you tell me how THIS is more town than THIS?

[singersigner]

How was Marquis so much more town than that? What did you think of Marquis' replace-out? Don't you think it's about time we do something about dead weight?

If it's one thing I've gotten from you, Titus, is that you make very calculated moves, so I'm wondering why you're essentially ignoring a red flag replacement and making excuses for them instead of requesting they do the smart thing and replace out to give town Titus a better opportunity at analyzing their interactions with the rest of the game. When will that be a priority for you?

[singersigner]

Um ok that was awkward. I pressed buttons while I was drunk and maybe my thoughtds disappeared!

Anyway:

1. I'm not sure I'm following your VCA.

2. Why is Mollie looking at Gamma to read me?? What does she feel like he could give her that you can't? Mollieeeeeeee...why are you reaching out to someone other than meeeee.

With regard to UT...I'm not avoiding the wagon, persay...just stalling it?? JK...mostly just that no one has given a convincing reason why he's scum more than what I'm familiar with, and no his bane is enough for me. Like I said, if it comes down to lynching him for a flip, I will, but I don't really see how he's threatening right now, so it's hard to justify voting for someone I can't read when they aren't threatening.

Aronis...I didn't realize there was a wagon on her?? She's been stroking my ego with finding Titus scum, so I've been willing to overlook much of what she's done. I think I remember her being towni-ish toward the end of Major Day 1, but this is a mental note to look back at what made me think that.

[singersigner]

@FormerFish...if you had to vote anyone right now, who would it be?

[singersigner]

UT's been hanging out with the Commune all weekend. I don't know how, why, or if that's affected his posting, but he leaves tonight so I'm expecting something in the next 36ish hours or I'm washing my hands clean of him and his fate.

DV replacing out is but his reads list could be way more thorough if he really wanted to give us something other than "seemed town" or "seemed scum". I literally have no idea where his head's at because he didn't explain ANYTHING.

Mina thinks Bulb's VCA is gross and thinks he was mildly appealing to us with his "oh well VCA says you can live another day" even though it was shallow at best. The only thing I've liked from him so far was his approach to the Bane mechanic D2 because it seemed thought out and coming from a town-motivated mindset.

I really liked Shadoweh's 5054 about FF and feeling like he shouldn't still be working with nothing this game. His last two posts were complaining that no one was engaging him or helping him out, when he should've had a slew of resources at his fingertips.

Speaking as another replacement

, it seems really under-the-radar. Even with a townread on Marquis, I can't really reconcile not being able to contribute at this point. Titus making excuses for him and deconstructing the pressure on him as "I'm not going to call taking care of family scummy" when that is not what the pressure is about at ALL, or even what people are remotely calling scummy, is terribad. Of note, this also isn't the first time she's turned a push on something/someone into something it wasn't to make it look worse!

[singersigner]

Why would oversoul pretend to counterclaim as scum knowing it would cause a 1v1 lynch?

Also, my team had its suspicions about UT but I didn't think they'd be right...just that he was a cheeky PR. >_>

[singersigner]

Oversoul's vote disappeared?

Nope, just a mistake in the VC because of distracting fluffy cat butt. Thanks for the catch, it's been fixed. -hito

[singersigner]

Can you stop spamming like a hyperactive candy kid for a minute Cheet? He faked a power, people do it all the time.
A better question would be if anyone has checked UT's sign and knows if he's Candle or not.

Empire did.

[singersigner]

Vezok, scum would not advocate for a UT lynch when they could kill him.

Oh? Why not waste a mislynch on him and get an extra kill out of the night NOW instead of waiting another night AND knowing who you have to waste a kill on.

You sure did say a lot of words pertaining to optimal scum play before.

Also, hey, hey, hey Oversoul...wanna talk to me about how Empire choose the game before he was given his role PM? And hey, hey, hey Oversoul...wanna talk about how he put two town tokens into that game only to role scum? Wanna talk about how he didn't CHOOSE to play scumm by every definition of the word? Yeah, I'm not sure where you're going with 'well now he's more likely to have also chosen to replace into another scum game.' Pls.

In any case, I wouldn't be dumb enough to link myself to my scum buddy like this (nor would I have advised claiming Alquin but that's debatable for strategy), especially when it should be pretty obvious that I was avoiding his lynch knowing his sign. I wasn't a fan of lynching him before and I'm 100% not now.

[singersigner]

Actually, I believe it more reading his ISO knowing he didn't have to care or be a tryhard. He would've bad to play the entire game from the beginning with that claim in mind.

[singersigner]

Had*

UT played like he wasn't worried about being lynched. Do you see that coming from scum, or Alquin?

[singersigner]

@Titus

Can you stop spamming like a hyperactive candy kid for a minute Cheet? He faked a power, people do it all the time.
A better question would be if anyone has checked UT's sign and knows if he's Candle or not.

Empire did.

@Gamma...I dunno, I mean, he's not even voting you, he was just discrediting your read on him, so it's hard to take him seriously, and hard to just sheep you when you repeat the whole "didn't explain his scumread on me" argument seven times before he ever had a chance to. Then he claimed, and you're still pushing it, even though he hasn't even done anything about it since then. If he voted you then maybe I could see where it looks cheeky from scum, but...

And I guess I wouldn't really fight the lynch, because it should confirm me as town if he flips town, but I just don't have the heart to support it no matter how disappointed I would be if he flipped Alquin.

[singersigner]

@Titus...that's purely numbers so your logick train is off by not calculating that the scum have to be successful at killing by knowing signs while not incriminating themselves by leaving too few people alive to mislynch.

[singersigner]

Gamma, focus on team building. It's clear he will dodge. Talk with Singer get her to bus UT or start playing protown if town. I don't care how. UT is scum.

So you've come to a consensus that I'm actually scum, have you? Wanna finally tell me why? Or are you gunna let me continue pushing your for the same reasons Gamma's pushing UT.

Guys.

I can finally tell you why singer is

scum.

Empire was scum in the vanilla nightless and was really upset because of it and switched with zar who hated the setup in vanilla nightless. I'm pretty sure there is absolutely no chance that Empire moved from a scum slot to another scum slot.

FTFY.

Also, Mina wanted me to correct myself. Empire put in three town tokens and still rolled scum. Pretty horseshit!

[singersigner]

Considering Shadweh asked if anyone could corroborate UT's sign, and I said Empire did, I

really

didn't think I had to explain that one. If you're fishing for more information than that, you won't get it.

[singersigner]

You've been posturing as if you've been tracing me (which would explain why my trace failed on you) but yet somehow you know UT's sign. That IS cause for concern from me.

What the fuck have I said that would imply I've targeted you? Or even got a result one way or another for that matter? If I thought I could get you lynched (hint: a wagon with 6 people heavily implies I can), I wouldn't waste anything on you.

And this was 100% Empire's decision anyway, not mine. Stop doubt casting things that inconvenience you and your tiny bubble of wtf.

@AD...in what world would it make sense to keep lying about token distribution after Empire/Zar's scum flip in the nightless? Two people that apparently have as much distain for being scum as I do make a

thousand

percent sense to want to place tokens in the town pile. Especially when, as you can see, it's hard as fuck to be scum in a nightless setup. What game do you think we would've wanted so much that we would put a preference of tokens on it? Seriously. And what's the point in doubt casting the token distribution of it doesn't matter to you?

[singersigner]

My condolences Titus.
Sorry to hear. Hope you're doing okay.

[singersigner]

I had the same hesitations about Gamma when he was pushing me and my team seems to agree, especially in light of his appeal to the fact that he's never been so sure! about you when everything he read as scum, I read as town. But confbias and all...

That being said, I really think you're weird for not seeing the obvious "if singer knows my sign, and singer is scum, why wouldn't she kill me?" Is that my trump card? White-knighting someone would have no know is likely Alquin I order to stay alive when I really had no threat to being lynched anyway?

CDB looks eager, but I've attributed to the rest of his team supporting him. Does make me question CES's stamp of approval for UT's lynch, though... What kind of odds is he banking on? He seems more calculated than that as town...

And I really just can't see Oversoul as scum anymore, sorry.

[singersigner]

Hey Gamma. Think about everything you feel about people not willing to vote UT and that's only a fraction of how I feel about Titus. So far only two people have actually been able to comment on my push on Titus with any legitimacy, other than "because she looks town" which tells me they 100% have not been reading my posts about her. Wanna take a crack at it instead of complaining that people aren't pushing the lynch you want based on a claim we only have a fraction of a reason to disbelieve?

[singersigner]

I survived another Mothers Day in the restaurant industry. I will be here tonight.

I'm really looking forward to you being here. I have a pending question: who would you vote right now, gun to your head?

[singersigner]

@Bulba...re: votecount...it was a little bit of the formatting, but then I guess I'm also not good at votecounts so I reread it again. Basically none of us understood where you were substantiating your theories from. You basically gave two people a free pass because you were townreading them, instead of acknowledging that when using an objective device such as VCA, you can't really do that. We don't have a whole lot to work with because we don't have a scum flip (something I can agree with Titus that we need), in which case your VCA isn't very objective, in which case it's not really convincing.

Knowing that it's not really substantial without a scum flip and the fact that it was actually only based off of one flipped town and that you included your unflipped self, it looks like busy-work disguised as scumhunting because none of it are the kind of facts that make VCAs in any way helpful.

[singersigner]

I survived another Mothers Day in the restaurant industry. I will be here tonight.

I'm really looking forward to you being here. I have a pending question: who would you vote right now, gun to your head?

UT or you.

Why me?

Also, do you or your team have any original thoughts on the game? Most of the catch-up spam I'm seeing is just regurgitating the popular opinions of others or defending yourself.

[singersigner]

GAWDDAMNIT CDB IF YOU TRY TO START A WAGON OUT OF NO WHERE AFTER JUST COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW THERE WEREN'T MORE THAN TWO VOTES ON ANYONE ON SOMEONE WHO HAS THE EXACT SAME POSTING/ACTIVITY HISTORY WITH MORE CONTENT AND LESS EXCUSES THAN SOMEONE WHO ALREADY HAS A WAGON AND IS IN YOUR LIST OF VIABLE LYNCH CANDIDATES I SWEAR TO GOD.

[singersigner]

Hey Titus, can you stop avoiding my request for you to take a stance on me and actually explain it?

What do you like about FF's contributions?
And what's wrong with me knowing UT's sign? You narrowed down TSO's sign...I'm not sure what you're getting at. Also, why did you trace last night with a claimed doctor? Didn't want to crumb signs to Mastin?

[singersigner]

@Singer, Stop ignoring my explaination. I am scumreading you. Have been. Did explain it. Will quote again if need be.

I like he's here and not posting scummy shit. Nothing specific yet but I like he's engaging, which allegedly was the point of his wagon.

You've been obsessed with me, since the start of your sub in, yet you know UT's sign. It's off to say the least. Why didn't you trace me or get my sign?

I also don't have a method of privately crumbing to anyone but ika. So detecting to feed Mastina doesn't work.

I can't see any explanation past your most recent "still trying to get a read on you" in 4988. If you could quote it that would be awesome.

I think you're smart enough to recognize the difference between original content/engaging and spamming to look like you're doing something when you're not. I asked him to provide something other than what people have already said in the last two pages before he posted, since it's becoming a habit of his to disappear for days without a trace, only to show back up when his name pops up again. You made excuses for him not more than two days ago for something that happened three weeks ago, and tried to make it like we were the ones attacking him for it, which is stretching at

best

. What makes his content/participation any less damning than Aronis'?

But whatever, my team is insisting I lay off you right now, so you're safe for another day.

And I received a result on UT's sign because of Empire's Minor Night One choice, which happened before I replaced in. I had no say in the matter. To say that I should've when even the post I quoted to you says EMPIRE DID, is fucking...I have no words for what that is, but then to imply that I'm also scummy for not claiming a result of some sorts on you is rolefishing. Care to rephrase that?

Someone overly relying on a new strategy instead of their scumhunting/how they feel about how scummy people are feels dishonest, especially since he's strong-townreading mastin. He could just use her VCAstuffs, but instead it feels like he's trying to justify the vote he's making rather than trying to figure out who scum is and trying to get them lynched.

How did you figure out Bulb never uses VCA? If that's true, I can definitely get behind a Bulb lynch.

[singersigner]

@Titus...you just said a whole lot of words. I assumed you had nothing to back it up since you haven't offered anything as such. If you're so confident I'm scum now, why aren't you pushing for my lynch instead?

Well Singer, why don't you cut to the chase and just lynch anyone I don't want to lynch? Try Espy or Cheetory tomorrow. ::haha:: Transparent reaching for a mislynch.

[singersigner]

@Cheetoryyyyy...how do I make it staaahhhp...

[singersigner]

One v ones are inherently scum sided and scum motivated. I'm not going to pander to the rest of the town to lynch me to prove me right...that doesn't prove me right, your flip does. I won't sacrifice myself just to do so because that tells us nothing for the people who hop on wagons just because confirmed town tells them to in order to make a point (see: Ffery). And if you were town, you shouldn't either.

Like, you either think I'm scum, or you don't.
You either want me to meta-dive you, or you don't. You can't pick and choose when to use meta to your advantage.

@4nxi3ty...your team should also comment on how they feel about UT, myself, FF, Espy, and Titus. That's narrowed down to less than half the playerlist, and should be commented on before the second lynch being the major point of contention of either yesterday or today. TTH claimed a VT-turned-watcher role based on the mechanics in the game, and...there were a couple of soft trace/detect claims I don't feel like fishing out right now.

@UT...what makes what CDB and Mastin's claims less bullshit than yours?

[singersigner]

So first I was scumreading everyone scumreading me (which included Bulba from the beginning of the game, btw), but now I'm just scumreading you and some lurkers (which only includes FF right now, btw)? Which is it, Titus? You can't even keep your story straight because you're just molding your read to fit your agenda.

Re: claims...you're the one who fucking drew attention to yourself both times so cut the crap about trying to be all town-savior protecting the PRs etc. You're so full of shit.

Re: UT...that should've been *more* bullshit not *less*...that's not proving why he's town, that's pointing out he's not so hot in his reads. Ffs, Titus.

[singersigner]

*sigh*

My team feels really strongly that I need to full disclosure that we only know UT is NOT Blade, DESPITE OUR SUSPICIONS THAT HE COULD'VE BEEN ALQUIN WHICH IS THE ONLY REASON I WAS AVOIDING HIS LYNCH THIS WHOLE DAY LO AND BEHOLD.

[singersigner]

Cha bra. So srs.

[singersigner]

*sigh*

My team feels really strongly that I need to full disclosure that we only know UT is NOT Blade, DESPITE OUR SUSPICIONS THAT HE COULD'VE BEEN ALQUIN WHICH IS THE ONLY REASON I WAS AVOIDING HIS LYNCH THIS WHOLE DAY LO AND BEHOLD.

How long have you guys had this suspicion?

Since he was willing to be baned, Regfan speculated he could be Alquin.

@Singer, Why didn't you say reasons and take the heat for it, much like I did with GiF?

You have had evolving reads. They've either been lurkers or temporary forays into those scumreading you. I do notice how you dodged my point of you being willing to accept Cheetory's research on Bulba's meta but not actually doing your own research.

What is YOUR read on Bulba and Aronis? What attempts are you making to reach out to people and lynch scumreads rather than just bogging the thread in diversions?

I don't understand the bolded.

Re: Bulb...I did point out that it might have something to with his team, so...I'm not sure where you think I just blanket accepted it. I already had a waffling read on him, and as you can tell, I'd much rather lynch either you or FormerFish right now, and since I won't lynch UT, Bulb seemed like a viable alternative. You make it seem like I'm pushing it for all it's worth when it is literally just that...a compromise. My team agrees he's not a terrible option because of his VCA...which I also pointed out already. Zar and I aren't a fan of the Aronis lynch and really hate that CDB is revisiting it. This goes back to his posting yesterday and the way his wagon evolved/devolved, and actually the way it's evolving now again. Of course scum want Alquin lynched and they would know if it's UT or not, but if they can't get the rest of the town on board organically, then dissolving onto "the next best thing" seems obvious.

And you can't just call my attack on you "bogging the thread in diversions" and pretend like it's true...that's not how this works, Titus. I'm pretty obviously town and you're pretty obviously resorting to dismissing everything I say as invalid because 70% of it is about you.

Preview Edit:
lol@TTH. Agreed about Aronis. Also lol@Titus thinking people sucking up to her isn't anything but convenience or fear.

[singersigner]

Hnng...I PROMISED MY TEAM THIS WOULD BE IGNORETITUSTUESDAY BUT CAN WE PLEASE GET A TITUS LYNCH NOW PRETTY PLEASE WITH A CHERRY ON TOP.

[singersigner]

Like, 90% of what she says is just factually wrong but she's twisting it to plot and scheme wherever it fits her agenda the best. She knows she can't get a lynch on me so she's not even trying, but needs to paint me as scum so people just shove it off as TvT or invalidation or whatever it is people do these days when people argue and spam the thread. If I had hair I'd be pulling it out right now. For fucking real.

[singersigner]

I WOULD LOVE A COP TO VALIDATE ME OR A VIG TO END THIS NIGHTMARE FOR ME OR A TRACK OF HER KILLING ME WOULD ALSO BE NICE SWEET VINDICTION HINT HINT WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE CDB.

[singersigner]

It's not that he doesn't post very much, it's that when he does post, it's

nothing

. Like, could somebody point me to anything that shows any amount of caring about the town? And then he shows up as soon as we wagon him after five days without saying anything?

I'm not gunna lie, I think scum would fight harder to live. I don't think anyone would think they could get away with one vote post, then immediately going MIA again after being MIA already.

Buuuuut, may I direct you to this juicy FormerFish wagon?

@Titus...did you really just accuse me of trying to

replicate

your play...and then

play dumb

about it...??

And seriously? You reprimanded me for asserting one players' actions/reactions onto another when they could be mutually exclusive because they're different players, and now you're seriously trying to come at me like "well I did this which was obviously the right way to do it so since you didn't do it you're soooooo sketchy for it!" You can have a preference, obviously, but even you pointed out that I was skirting his lynch for a while, so how can you say that I wasn't trying to just NOT OUT HIM FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

Actually can we keep track of all the arguments I've brought up for Titusscum and when you try to use them against me and fail? That's twice now. I mean...seriously, just stop. You're actively digging a whole for yourself.

[singersigner]

This is literally all I'm getting from you right now.

[singersigner]

UT, you're really not in a position to be slinging crap at anyone for their play right now. So...maybe no thanks try again on that one.

I'm up for lynching whomever and whatever, I honestly don't care anymore. Maybe scumTitus will nightkill me and put me out of my misery. Or maybe she'll keep me alive to keep her miserable for the rest of the game. Who knows! It's a mystery!

Consider this my official intent to hammer whomever gets to L-2 first (L-2 for claims obvobv).

[singersigner]

Oh oh! It's cuz you're implying we're scum together, right?? Oh oh! AMIRITE??

Maybe you could catch up before opening your mouth next time because I'm starting to get bitter about literally everything going on right now and you're not helping by letting that be your only contribution right now.

[singersigner]

unvote
vote: Titus

[singersigner]

vote: Bulb

[singersigner]

Yeah let's all pretend like that claim would've meant anything and avoided his lynch. Good idea.

vote: Titus

I'm townreading everyone on Bulb's wagon despite him flipping town so. Good luck with that.

[singersigner]

VC 125 (Major Day 2, VC 13)

(9)

Bulbazak:

TellTaleHeart, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, Gammagooey, Aronis, Untrod Tripod, ChannelDelibird, Oversoul, singersigner

(Oversoul)

[Lynch!]

(4)

Aronis:

Titus, ActionDan, Espeonage, Shadoweh

(ChannelDelibird)

(1)

4nxi3ty:

mastin2
(1)

vezokpiraka:

Bulbazak
(0)

Oversoul:

(Untrod Tripod)

(0)

Formerfish:

(Shadoweh)

(0)

Titus:

(singersigner)

(2)

Not Voting:

4nxi3ty, Formerfish

(Oversoul)

With 17 players alive it's 9 to lynch. Major Day Two will end Tuesday, May 19th, at 2PM CST.

Major Day Two Deadline

(expired on 2015-05-19 13:00:00)

HEY I FOUND A TOWN BLOCK.

[singersigner]

I'm gunna go out on a limb that scum might've been positioning an Aronis mislynch this while time.

[singersigner]

In a lethargic town, who honestlythinks that scum wasn't setting up competition between two town lynches.

I wouldn't call this town letharigic, but very divided. We have active scum pushing an agenda somewhere. Yesterday, that agenda appeared to be "Save Aronis" from my persepective. I may have to do a VCA to look at this despite it being of lower value, and my earlier team mafia one being off. These wagons do have a story to tell.

@Singer, Who do you think was scum on the Bulba wagon? Or are you seriously suggesting that everyone who voted Bulba was town?

1. Zar and I had a bit of a laugh about your nightless VCA, but everyone makes mistakes. You seem to be pretty confident about your history of it, so I'm interested in seeing your VCA firsthand.

2. I'm not sure why you're asking me to speculate on a wagon I did in fact say I was townreading everyone on, but gun-to-my-head...hnng...ok, I can't do it. I won't vote for anyone on Bulb's wagon today. Are you suggesting that it's not possible that everyone on Bulba was town? Humor me and pretend you were on it instead of me. Is Aronis the only scum on the wagon?

[singersigner]

DV was lurking a lot the last couple of weeks and wasn't voting at all (which is weird that you overlooked?), and 4xi3ty replaced in after UT's claim, so...no reason to bring attention there. If you couldn't catch up and be held accountable for your vote, why bring attention to yourself when you can't handle it? It makes perfect sense for scum DV to try to just lurk his way through it, and then replace out when he couldn't handle it for whatever reason.

Also, are we to take this as you town reading all of those wagons you mentioned?

[singersigner]

Regfan thinks one of the more universally townread players that people are blanket townreading from the beginning of the game is wrong. His theory is DV so we can get behind an 4xi3ty lynch.

My team has townreads on everyone on Bulb's wagon, yes. That was part of the reason why they were so ok with a Bulb lynch. That and his VCA, but I digress.

And I'm sorry, Titus, excusing someone for not MIA-voting is literally the dumbest thing...
And what do you mean by "shake things up"? Where are you voting to do that?
Occam's razor says you're that little birdy popping suggestions in people's ears on your pedastool, telling people they're wrong or ignorant, making it seem like it's impossible to have an all-town wagon on town, or that it's impossible to play scum in such a lucky-out-of-the-shadows kind of way, or that it's impossible for three other scum to push a mislynch successfully.

[singersigner]

Sooooo then...Titus??

[singersigner]

@FF...you can start with this post.

I survived another Mothers Day in the restaurant industry. I will be here tonight.

I'm really looking forward to you being here. I have a pending question: who would you vote right now, gun to your head?

UT or you.

Why me?

Also, do you or your team have any original thoughts on the game? Most of the catch-up spam I'm seeing is just regurgitating the popular opinions of others or defending yourself.

[singersigner]

Cheetory. She's scum. It's not worth it. Don't go to the dark side. Come see the light...again...

Preview Edit:
@FF...it should be pretty obvious by now that I was excusing his play because we suspected he was Alquin, so...you can try another explanation seeing as you don't have the same excuse. And it's not just your absense. It's the excuses you've made instead of just taking the time to do something, and then the lack of effort in doing anything. I've already said Titus's defense of you is terrible so using her words to defend you is just ironic at this point.

[singersigner]

4xi3ty...your vote on Titus is literally the only reason I'm fighting my team on you. Not to fear monger you or anything, but...

Also, it seems off that you are now the second (or third) person who's deconstructed an argument on a replacement slot due to "lurking," when that only sumpliments it. What I REALLY don't like is that it's coming from you and Titus, who's been offering a hard defense of the two bigger "lurker" wagons, with reasons that couple apply to Aronis, yet she's pushing Aronis instead of you and FF.

@Titus...I'm looking forward to finally seeing your flail case on me.

[singersigner]

Hmm...isn't it also funny that the person we know does VCA the most accurately/well, has been subtly coaching the rest of the town on what it should look like? Like trying to convince people that scum had to have been on Bulb's wagon despite there being A WHOLE HORD OF TOWN on it, or admitting that the only way to bypass her VCA is to not be voting or not bus? Seems like something she could've rasiy coached/recommended in a scum PT, and now she's using it as DV/4xi3ty's defence...

@CDB...yes...but his fiancé was in the hospital the first night he replaced in...shouldn't we give him a break??

[singersigner]

Not lynching singer, probably ever. Empire looked town, his replace-in is town, singer's engagement is

way

too high for her to be scum. Not doing it. Nope. No siree. No thank you. Nada.

Really, I'm a high volume poster regardless of my alignment. *sigh* Engagement alone, unless you can link it to the gamestate is NOT alignment indicative. Singer had to engage, She was wagoned.

There was zero wagon on me when I replaced into the game. My activity level has not changed since then. Try again.

I'd really rather you actually make a case before pandering to everyone to see if it's even worth it. Like...let's do some comparatives, shall we? You've said that town would do x (like going MIA and not voting) and scum would do y (like placing a stale vote on someone), but what about Gamma's insistence that town would make cases and push the people they actually think are scum despite claims to the contrary? Do you disagree with this? Why haven't you actually put what you have on the line and actually pushed me as scum if you

really

believe that I'm scum. Instead you've resigned to easy pushes that have garnered plenty of support at the time (UT, Aronis, Espy, AD mildly at one point, TSO "because Ffery said so"). Not once have you actually gone against the grain and pushed me in any significant way. And now you still wouldn't unless people have already convinced themselves that I could be scum and support you in it, instead of trying to convince the people who might be "blindsighted" by me to actually change their minds.

[singersigner]

@Cheetory...why your change of heart with Titus?

@Titus...did you just call me sweety?

@CDB...it's fine, you don't need to go balls deep to defend me. She has even less support than she did the first time, and even less ammo because I've stripped it away from her. Don't waste your efforts. Talk to me about why she's town, though. Is it because she's now including you in the townblock to appease you after trying to imply you were lying about your claim to get Mastin booned over you?

[singersigner]

See, that wasn't so hard now, was it?

[singersigner]

Formerfish because his play so far has been super lackluster and full of complaining/excuses instead of actually putting forward any sense of effort. He hasn't really engaged with more than like three people so far, and attacks anyone scumreading him for being uselsss as opposed to actually changing his attitude. Feels like he's trying to coast as much as possible until attention is directed his way again, in which case I fully expect him to bombard the thread again. I don't see any sense of urgency with trying to catch up or contribute in a way I would expect from a replacement, but instead throwing out AtE like "who else would replace into a game this big" which isn't alignment relevant at all, so not an appropriate form of defense. He should replace out or do something and since he doesn't have the decency to do either, I'm scumreading him I'm instead.

[singersigner]

Are you upset because your whole scum team is lurking and now you have to carry their weight? Because that's really what I'm getting from your frustration. FF...probably DV at that point which means 4nxi3ty would have to be bussing you...are you bussing Aronis? Why are you so determined that one of the lurkers can't be scum? I've actually molded my reads pretty thoroughly over the course of this game, the most unwavering one being you (sorry not sorry). Like, you're all up in my grill trying to hard defend yourself when if you really weren't worried, maybe you'd allow people to look at the facts and let them speak for themselves. But...you're not doing that.

And Shadoweh was my team's scumread. I will follow them if the votes go deep enough for it, but something at the end of D1 made me feel like she was town. We're not exactly happy with her vote at the end of the first cycle, but it's not damning. Aronisnis your read so I'm determined to do the opposite for the rest of the game unless I think you're bussing.

[singersigner]

I'm particularly interested in why it's ok now for Aronis not to explain anything and what happened to your Shadoweh scumread now that people are pushing her.

I think comparatively, Aronis has provided more that made me townread him (at the end of D1), than the others who aren't providing anything. It's a compromise lynch for me because of the way it developed and fell off before, I really feel like it's another scum driven mislynch. I explained that Shadoweh's read came from my team but it's another compromise lynch. I'd actually basically lynch anyone but Mastin off of the Bulb wagon, to be honest. I like Cheetory's theory that in order to create chaos and get multiple mislynches, scum need to buzz around all of the wagons, to make it more likely that "the next best thing" aka Aronis, goes through, too.

[singersigner]

Titus are you joking.
You're willing to vote off of the Bulba wagon but only as long as it isn't DVslot?
You've expressed that you'd at least consider Shadow and Espe now. Like.
Gahhhhhhhhhhhh.

Cheetory.

She's scum.

Protecting her buddies.

I'm not 100% ok with a DV slot lynch.

[singersigner]

I think CDB and his team's analysis of Singer's reservations about UT vote are pretty spot on.
That is kind of shit reasoning. I completely forgot Alquin was even a thing and honestly thought it was one of the lurkers but #YOLO

Mina and Zar agree with you. If we're wrong you can reprimant me and Regfan postgame. Until then, you can feel free to either try to prove us wrong now or stfu.

For now, I'll just sheep my biggest townreads because I don't trust anyone on the Titus wagon despite their willingness to vote with me.

unvote
vote: 4nxi3ty

[singersigner]

Yes. Caveat: everyone on the anxiety wagon was also on the bulba qagon. That's making me uncomfortable. Still I'll try to do a side by side comparison of anx and aronis soon

What's making you uncomfortable about it?

[singersigner]

I think CDB and his team's analysis of Singer's reservations about UT vote are pretty spot on.
That is kind of shit reasoning. I completely forgot Alquin was even a thing and honestly thought it was one of the lurkers but #YOLO

Mina and Zar agree with you. If we're wrong you can reprimant me and Regfan postgame. Until then, you can feel free to either try to prove us wrong now or stfu.

Why is this aimed at Oversoul rather than me? You know I just

did

try to prove you wrong? At length?

He was agreeing with you...so I was telling him that they agreed with him who agrees with you. So "you" is essentially "y'all" so...feel free to be included in that general sentiment of proving us wrong, but I personally don't agree and I have the vote. I think UT's ego about the claim seems pretty town. It actually replicates Titus' right now regarding Bulb's wagon, to be honest. But you have them on opposite sides of the spectrum as I do, so...I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and see who's right.

[singersigner]

Wow, another singer wagon jump without a reason. She has no problem jumping on 4ity but skips Aronis despite not trusting Adonis and not having confidence 4ity is scum. Wake up please.

You can ISO me to find reason if you'd like. It's not that hard. You're my biggest scumread and I think you're trying to coerse everyone into comparing Aronis to everything but your buddies, so you'll excuse me if I'm going to stay the fuck away from any wagon you endorse.

[singersigner]

Regfan thinks one of the more universally townread players that people are blanket townreading from the beginning of the game is wrong. His theory is DV so

we can get behind an 4xi3ty lynch.

4xi3ty...your vote on Titus is literally the only reason I'm fighting my team on you.

Not to fear monger you or anything, but...

Also, it seems off that you are now the second (or third) person who's deconstructed an argument on a replacement slot due to "lurking," when that only sumpliments it. What I REALLY don't like is that it's coming from you and Titus, who's been offering a hard defense of the two bigger "lurker" wagons, with reasons that couple apply to Aronis, yet she's pushing Aronis instead of you and FF.

@Titus...I'm looking forward to finally seeing your flail case on me.

Hmm...isn't it also funny that the person we know does VCA the most accurately/well, has been subtly coaching the rest of the town on what it should look like? Like trying to convince people that scum had to have been on Bulb's wagon despite there being A WHOLE HORD OF TOWN on it, or admitting that the only way to bypass her VCA is to not be voting or not bus? Seems like something she could've rasiy coached/recommended in a scum PT,

and now she's using it as DV/4xi3ty's defence...

@CDB...yes...but his fiancé was in the hospital the first night he replaced in...shouldn't we give him a break??

Are you upset because your whole scum team is lurking and now you have to carry their weight? Because that's really what I'm getting from your frustration. FF...

probably DV at that point which means 4nxi3ty would have to be bussing you

...are you bussing Aronis? Why are you so determined that one of the lurkers can't be scum? I've actually molded my reads pretty thoroughly over the course of this game, the most unwavering one being you (sorry not sorry). Like, you're all up in my grill trying to hard defend yourself when if you really weren't worried, maybe you'd allow people to look at the facts and let them speak for themselves. But...you're not doing that.

And Shadoweh was my team's scumread. I will follow them if the votes go deep enough for it, but something at the end of D1 made me feel like she was town. We're not exactly happy with her vote at the end of the first cycle, but it's not damning. Aronisnis your read so I'm determined to do the opposite for the rest of the game unless I think you're bussing.

Where did I say I didn't like the 4nxiety wagon that wasn't referencing how it related to yours?

Preview Edit:
That was a typo. It should've read "now"***

[singersigner]

And I should've specified...I don't trust the people on your wagon for the same reason I didn't trust them before. Their reads only line up with mine when it relates to you, so I'll concede to getting you lynched after I get your scum buddy lynched. The only one I

really

don't trust is the person I'm voting, which'll clear up if you're being bussed or not. Aronis won't give me that same clarity. Cheers.

[singersigner]

MINA WANTS ME TO TELL YOU RIGHT THIS FUCKING SECOND THAT SHE IS FURIOUS WITH ME FOR GROUPING HER IN WITH "THE REST OF MY TEAM" IN THAT SHE HAS A HUGE FUCKING TOWNREAD ON DV AND I DIDN'T SAY IT AT THE TIME SO HERE IS MY PUBLIC APOLOGY THAT APPARENTLY I'M THE WORST TEAM MAFIA TEAMMATE AND WILL NOW HIDE WITH MY TAIL BETWEEN MY LEGS BECAUSE THAT'S ALL I'M GOOD FOR.

[singersigner]

Honestly, because it only supports your agenda, I really don't want to give you more ammunition to defend someone. If you'd like to know the reason I'm actually voting for that slot (which you seem to be content complaining about instead of asking for it), you can engage with me personally, but I feel like you've been soliciting other people to do your work all game (Gamma with me, CDB with Shadoweh, etc) until it came to

finally

giving your case on me, which I practically had to beg for.

But because it would be unfair to Mina to silence her just because I disagree: she felt that DV's take on Shadoweh was town because it's transparent and unconcerned with appearances, which is apparently his town meta. There's other stuff about his reads but that's the part I can best paraphrase and also not feel like I'm giving you the answers I'd like to see from you.

Also, after discussing with Mina, we both agree that we shouldn't be lynching "on or off" the wagons right now, we should just be lynching who we think are scum, so Titus, could you explain why you think Aronis is scum without comparing him to people you don't think are scum or using Bulb's wagon as an excuse because you of all people should know that's horseshit without a scumflip?

She and I would also like to see more from AD, Aronis, and Espy, since they're not much of a presense anymore in this game and she liked them all at one point but wants to remember why.

[singersigner]

[singersigner]

Actually, I was making a joke out of my hammer with Bulb, but that's pretty bullshit to ask for two claims at this point right now. I'd rather it go to a no lynch than string up two people to claims and have to find a third option. Stop fishing, it's gross.

[singersigner]

We can assume Mastin will vote 4nxi3ty. Consider him at L-3.

Anyone not voting either in these wagons should pick one.

[singersigner]

@4nxiety...do you think Titus is bussing or is this purely a survivalistic vote?

[singersigner]

And your attitude is the reason my team thinks you're scum. Deal with it. There was a timeline that I stuck to and people were well aware that I was ready to vote. I'm not apologetic for trying to drive a lynch for a flip we desperately needed. I'm sorry if it hurts you personally because you felt he was oh so town, but clearly enough people disagreed.

People have been ready to string UT up regardless of his claim, even CDB people questioned...I'm saying that waiting for a claim was just going to be a waste of time and unless it was Alquin (which he already had the opportunity to refute), was not going to stop his lynch anyway. I was mostly responding to Titus trying to make it anything but pragmatic, especially given her remissed attitude with regards to keeping to a deadling for two lynches D1. This is exactly what scum want. They want chaos, they want wagons to stall, they want "clear choices" for a mislynch so why give that to them?

Sorry, not sorry.

[singersigner]

My opinion matters so much in that no one is listening to it, right? You were the only one who bothered commenting on my team's case on you despite the botched tags, two-ish people bothered responding to my Titus case...it doesn't really seem like anyone gives a shit about my opinion as long as they can deduct I'm town for them, which is, I guess, half the battle.

People shouted at me for not hammering Espy, and now people are pissy because I hammered Bulb too quickly. I get it. It's the town thing to wait for a claim. I feel like he would've been available with an emenent lynch if he felt there was something worth claiming to be honest, and we can ask him after the game, but I don't think he would've realistically thought that would've bought him a day. It would've sounded like a scum claim anyway, especially since he was trying to convince people earlier in the game (with Titus, iirc) that any vig claims should be treated as scum claims, even though his role implies there could be a secondary killing role in the game to be protected from. It would've sounded like he was trying to set up a vig claim for failure from the beginning, knowing he could theoretically be protected from them anyway.

Anyway, point being, I get why you're mad. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just saying that I wasn't necessarily wrong because people were starting to talk in circles like they are with Aronis/4nxi3ty and I didn't want the same thing to happen with them as it did with Espy.

[singersigner]

Ok, I appreciate the sentiment, but I really don't think I have enough power to motivate any more people who don't care to care even less. But to follow your point, there's only been two other lynches, and the first was practically a copout for half the people who joined it. It would take a lot of convincing to make me believe literally anyone on 4nxi3ty is scum right now. I think it's pretty bullshit to assume there had to be scum on any particular wagon at the rate this game is going, so I'm not using that as a means for supporting the wagon I'm on until there's a scum flip and we can actually look at the votes/interations.

[singersigner]

4nxiety got a result on me?

[singersigner]

Goddamnit Gamma.

[singersigner]

read things instead of bitching about failed, stupid gambits please singer

minor n1 traced singer, not viktor, detected ut

The implications are over your head, apparently. I needed him to respond, specially because that's what he claimed.

[singersigner]

I'm saying that he specifically claimed to trace "singer" instead of "Empire." I get that he could've filled in the blanks with replacements and all (which is why I was kind of hoping to see what he would say/how he would respond), but DV didn't even state suspicion of us at the Minor N1 point, and in fact was feeling pretty ok with Empire, which wouldn't make sense for a potential "see if they're viktor" trace.

Also, 4nxi3ty, didn't you say that your sign would change to the person who targeted you? There were two people who claim to have targeted your slot Minor Night 1, so...how does that work?

[singersigner]

Hey, hey, hey, UT.

Hey, hey, hey, FormerFish.

Hey, hey, hey, Mastin.

Hey, hey, hey, Aronis.

[singersigner]

Could you vote either Aronis or 4nxi3ty, pretty please? ily. <3

[singersigner]

He's effectively L with mastin and aronis in the wings. Id like to read over stuff before day end so if we could wait a tad that'd be great. Immediate reaction to claim is that it's not that bad tho unsure why Victor ability wasn't listed as transcendent

What's not bad about it? What makes it that believeable considering the points I brought up about how it doesn't make sense to have changed signs with two people targeting him and the fact that I highly doubt DV would think Empire was viktor with the way he was commenting on him going into Minor Night 1?

[singersigner]

Agree that this sounds pretty shifty but, as we've got time (and Dan wants to use it for stuff), I'd like for 4nx to answer 6005 and 6006.

He really could've been doing that the whole time. Like. What stuff does he need to read over that would in any way impact his decision or that he couldn't do overnight (because let's be honest, what scum would kill a townAD at this point)? I'm not saying that it doesn't matter if people look over things, but I'm not very patient, and there've been several stalls this game which are actively anti-town, that I'm tired of.

@Gamma...can you talk to me about Shadoweh? My team is convinced she's scum and while I'm not exactly a fan of her play, they feel like there's been little traction for her lynch, and I don't know to really articulate any further why they don't like her, other than what I already have. You might be the guiding light if she's scum.
Re: Titus...as much as I'd love there to be a vig right about now, I don't know that we can really afford any more kills knowing that scum have probably firmed up enough detects that can explode the game in the next couple of days.

Also, serious doubts that if the role was real and this was town4nx that he wouldn't have claimed what his signs changed to.
That's horrendously anti-town.

Agreed. The claim doesn't add up on multiple levels. It's beyond people disgreeing on how a townUT should've played Alquin, it's just actively inconsistent.

[singersigner]

Because Titus. If there was any more than two people willing to vote Shadoweh, I might've reconsidered, so...be less useless and more convincing maybe?

[singersigner]

Beep Boop.

Spoiler: Sweet contributions, bro.

Do you ever feel

like a plastic bag

floating through the wind

wanting to start again

do you ever feel

feel so paper thin

like a house of cards

one blow from caving in

do you ever feel
already buried deep

six feet under screams but no one seems to hear a thing

Do you know that there's still a chance for you cause there's a spark in you

[singersigner]

this is my last day alive, I'm going to actually push something I believe in

my team and I are putting together something right now that I think you'll find very exciting

Is this still happening? Because you'd think that knowing you're a dead man, you might actually put a priority on this...

[singersigner]

UT your Gamma points are duly noted but he's not getting lynched today. Had you not waited for two other wagons, or until you were wagoned yourself to try to articulate this, things might've gone differently, but unfortunately those weren't the odds you tried to play with so it would be a lot more helpful if you could talk a little more about the two viable lynch-wagons. What do you think of 4nxi3ty's claim?

[singersigner]

I mean, I was trying to be nice but I honestly haven't read them yet since I'm out and phone posting. I get the gist and I will read them more thoroughly when I get home, but I'm not making things up when I think it's pretty unreasonable to get an entirely new wagon going when we've had two on the brink of avoidance and stalling since we lynched Bulb. Shouting at people for being an idiot when they can't see something so clearly right in front of their ace is something I can sympathize with re: Titus, so if you're trying to imply I'm not sympathetic and intend on just twidling my thumbs and not doing anything about it, you might need to reread the game.

I will say that inconsistency in it of itself is not a scum tell, though.