UK Meet 2015 Invitational (Game Over)

[Tammy]

Hi guys!

I have some stuff to catch up on, but I should be able to get this read and give you my thoughts tonight.

[Tammy]

VOTE: leap of faith

Hopefully, I'll finish this read tonight, but there's a good chance I pass out mid-read. So, probably no thoughts from me until tomorrow.

[Tammy]

Oh hey that wasn't that bad actually. At first I felt like I was crashing a party, but it started to settle early. There's still some subtext thee that I feel like I'm missing, but maybe a fresh pair of outside eyes is what this game needs!

I do want to think about a few things and reread a few parts tomorrow and address some things when I'm actually at a computer, so please hold for that.

My biggest town reads are ampersand and Prozac. Ampersand because of fen's reflection posting - also liked the post where she was posting then said okay just talked to ces or something as it felt stream of consciousy. Prozac I had no idea on until the claim, and yeah tracker might not be town but I loved the post where he said it might be hard reading this game because of how well everyone knows each other. I realize he could say that regardless of alignment but it felt honest and not preplanned, and might really sound that way to me because it's something I've been contemplating lately with regards to ,y own games in that I feel like my reads have been sucking lately because I keep playing with friends and I have a hard time scum reading them. Anyway, I really liked that post.

Nexus - what has your read on CDb been this game?

[Tammy]

So, I had this weird dream last night where I had come to a cabin in the woods and you guys were playing mafia and I joined in and gave my thoughts and some blonde guy started raging at me that it wasn't enough and I wasn't scum hunting enough and I was like "I read the game while in bed and was on my iPad and gave my thoughts, why are you yelling at me when I thought I started off pretty well." I woke up pretty confused and kinda half-eyed the game to make sure I didn't get yelled at which is pretty silly because you guys across the pond probably wouldn't do that in the first place, well who would? Anyway, I thought it was amusing.

One thing that did keep repeating to me in the dream though was Nexus' assertions that he got his favorite role. I don't remember seeing anyone react to that at all and it kinda surprised me that he's on people's suspect list while doing something that I thought would be familiar or that would spark a response. I'm not sure what to make of that. Maybe I'm misremembering how many times he said it.

I also think I'm misremembering the cdb-nexus connection. I thought that they had a two-way easy read connection in that they both thought they could read each other very well. I remember cdb thinking he could read nexus very well and then getting paranoid and helping to mislynch him in red wedding, and then in the next game, fantasy camp?, talking about that and having a more definite read. But what I think I'm misremembering is that nexus also feels like he can read cdb well off of very little which was confusing me somewhat here.

I don't think the two of them can be partnered though, or are very likely. If cdb does feel, and it's substantiated by other games, that he can read Nexus, I doubt if they were partnered he'd be likely to read him as strongly town because I don't think* Nexus has a very strong scum game and would likely be caught which would put cdb in a bad position. And with you guys all knowing each other so well and being friends I think he'd be less likely to get away with town reading his scum partner Nexus, who would likely be caught as scum, and then there he'd be looking too obvious. Therefore I doubt very seriously they are scum together, and with there being only one kill last night, there's the likelihood that there's just one scum team, which means one of them is likely town.

Fenchurch - I saw that you're currently willing to vote CDB, what does CES think about the no track result on cdb from last night?

*My memory of Nexus' scum game comes from hearing that he lurks like hell as scum though is not substantiated but seeing him in a scum hydra with faraday in mafiastuck where I think faraday imitated him to make him see more active :/

~~~

Okay I'm going to do some of the iso's I said I wanted to last night and will try to get some questions/other thoughts that weren't so forefront here in a minute. I do need to stop waiting until late at night to play mafia though so if I start rambling or not making sense, I apologize and will try to fix it tomorrow.

[Tammy]

Oh, I was hoping to find something off of the Avox lynch, but he didn't really do himself any favors there, though in hindsight his crumbs were pretty obvious. But, in game I'd have probably found him suspicious too, and I think that he had the unfortunate circumstance of being a solo mason, and maybe I'm just a bit forgiving there because I think 90% of the time I've been a solo mason in greater idea on Skype I've been mislynched. So.

Maybe something can be learned from the Hito kill. Though I suppose that the killers also could have expected Ampersand to be healed and went for the second option.

[Tammy]

Okay need to ground myself: Town reading/not willing to lynch today - Ampersand and Porochaz

Probably at least one town here: CDB/Nexus

Everyone else: Elmo, Shanba

Hrm.

[Tammy]

You're right. I'm scum and I decided to confess. I've never been flustered by a wagon on me as town before. Certainly not at the very meet which thus we celebrate.

i dunno i only played like three games at the last meet and I've been drunk since then

i like this post. It might be the drunk part though.

[Tammy]

I was going to make a scummy-looking comment about something Fenchurch didn't post because she thought it looked scummy but then I thought that comment looked scummy so I didn't post it.

But yeah, we should probably just lynch insp.

Vote: insp

I love this post because it reminds me of when mina and I hydrad in the reckoning and she left me this message about a scummy looking post she wanted to post but didn't, and then like a half an hour later posted it and went OOPS.

Anyway, this and the later posting of said scummy thought along with reflective posting is what made me think they're town. Which I'm glad that it's fen church doing the most of the posting here because i was stupidly paranoid about ces in team mafia, and maybe I don't give fen church enough credit for what she's likely to do in a scum game, but her thoughts just feel so damn transparent and honest that I just think it's town.

[Tammy]

At least I'm not trying to get you mislynched this time? That should be helpful.

Primate, you should place a vote.

Oh I remember, this is the only post I worried about from Ampersand.

In yoloville, CES made a similar type of "mislynch" slip and I should have paid more attention to it when Vi pointed it out.

I don't really think it's anything here because damn does the rest of their posting read so town, but don't want to overlook anything right now.

[Tammy]

I'm way town, though!

Honestly kinda understand the votes on me and am rather self-conscious at the moment

{..}

Huh? What changed?

This felt stretchy. I didn't think this felt contradictory.

~~~

I'm sorry I'm spamming; I think you guys prefer big walls, but.

[Tammy]

Different to face to face for sure...

also I haven't played a forum mafia game in a long time, so this is taking some getting back used to.

This is one of those subtext things that is probably lost on me but it instinctually bugs me.

I only hesitate here because I was pretty sure scum used this excuse in an offsite game recently and it turned out he really was rusty and hadn't played in years. But it still feels a bit out of place here among a small group of friends.

[Tammy]

Something feels off about the porochaz/nexus/cdb interaction on page four.

If prozac turns out to be a mafia tracker, nexus might be his partner. But there's cdb's town read to contend with there.

~~~

I kinda want to vote Shanba because my predecessor did. Can anyone tell me how good of a scum hunter primate is? I've never played with him before and it would be nice if I could trust his reads.

[Tammy]

I like Ampersand, CDB and nexus this game so far.

I'd like to note here that I am actually really paranoid about nexus, so take my reads on him with a grain of salt.

I'm not sure what to make of this. On the one hand I hate that he? has nexus as a town read in one post and not even a minute later expresses paranoia on nexus with absolutely no indication why. On the other hand, I know how contradictory I can be when my head and gut are fighting, but I'm not seeing an indication of this fight here, so I don't know why there's a turn around in less than a minute.

If you like CDB, do you not trust his read on nexus?

Didn't realise inspie has only posted 3 times.

Scum shirley can't be two of the lowest posters. SHIRLEY NOT

I have a naked gun chuckle here, and I want to call it town cuz funny is town. It is known.

I've clearly claimed an only town role so you should all sheep me and lynch poro.

As I was reminded in Skype this past weekend, no it could have been werewolf too :/ (This serves no purpose in this game since he didn't flip it, but I did totally let LLD skate by as a mason because I forgot about the ww mason. Just reliving my shame.)

Also, quote striping woooooo! (It's getting late. Don't mind me.)

[Tammy]

I need to go to sleep. I'll pick up from 135 tomorrow.

Thanks Fenchurch. I'll respond to anything I need to tomorrow as well. But I will say that the reason why I asked what CES thought about the no track on CDB was because in NY 146 when he replaced in he gave a statistical reason why he was likely not scum because of a no track on him/or vanilla result, damn now I'm second guessing that and will have to look back. If it was a track, I might have another question. So, tomorrow.

[Tammy]

I've had a very long day, so I'll try to finish up with my reread as much as I can.

I guess it helps that almost nobody is around though :/

[Tammy]

It is annoying that Prozac has not been around at all. If he is the town tracker, he is most likely dying tonight and I'd expect something at least.

[Tammy]

because av pinged my scumdar as well but I was also unsure on INSPIE and it's TOO MANY SCUM READS FUCK MY LIFE.

I'll vote Prozac > AV > Inspie i think

This post felt off but I can't exactly put my finger on why.

[Tammy]

CDB: you have inspi as most scummy, neutral on AVox, and Poro as not voteworthy. What are your reasons for these reads, please?

Inspie isn't anything that I haven't said in thread but I feel like his entrance was empty and unhelpful, and his subsequent justification of it seemed like he was making it up a bit after the fact. I liked your #77 in that regard.

AVox is probably up from neutral to scummy now. I thought his first couple of posts were pretty nondescriptly Avoxy and was waiting to get a bit more input but his interactions with you on Wednesday don't look great. The fact that his last posts are asking a couple of clarificationy questions on which he never followed up doesn't sit well to me - looks more like scum posting to be seen posting rather than town actually trying to get answers to figure out anything.

Prozac just seems pretty town. He's here, and he's making some kind of effort even if he's admittedly struggling to get into things at times. His reads are maybe not meshing with others' perfectly and he's had some heat with which to deal but he doesn't strike me as particularly rattled by it.

The reasonings for these feel like they should be closer in your reads than farther apart.

[Tammy]

Okay yeah, I'll pick back up at page 8 tomorrow as I'm about to pass out. I have company coming in this morning and a busy weekend but I will make sure I finish with my reread and give my complete thoughts. That should happen tomorrow at some point. I want to read back over Hito's early points again though.

Can someone tell me what swagger tell is?

[Tammy]

Okay so I am, at this moment, tired and tipsy, but am going to catch up here.

Sorry I was not here earlier. I thought my company was only staying last night, so I'd be able to catch up before, but it was extended which gave me less time though I'm not complaining becaus yay company.

[Tammy]

And I got prodded!

[Tammy]

Company is now stealing my food. Mean company.

[Tammy]

I'm now seeing from an outside view why people sometimes have a problem with me after reading shanba's posts. I mean cause some of the contradictory stuff feels weird then I go gosh that sounds like me and I'm feeling problematic.

[Tammy]

Okay first things first, apparently I was posting in the wrong thread while exhausted/tipsy...

Subject: Micro 488: Forest Fire - Endgame

Oh actually, Prozac is kinda reminding me of him when he was a tracker in team mafia.

I have no problem going first and can you please stop acting like you have something on me when we both know you don't. My claim wouldn't change no matter where I went in the lineup.

I'm a vanilla townie.

Also, I'm sorry that I disappeared. I knew that I had company coming on Friday, but thought they were leaving on Saturday, which meant I could catch up here. I didn't expect to get back home late Sunday night. I'm also sorry that I missed deadline. I suck at time zones. Murica!

I need to catch up on the end of day yesterday and I promise I will do that tonight. I'm in the midst of a kitchen project, but I will catch up before I go to bed. If you guys could not just default on old Tammy scum models and think me not being around means scum and not just I had company and couldn't mafia, and give me a chance then maybe we still have a chance to win this.

[Tammy]

Oh if we're in the middle of a mass claim I should probably hold off on thoughts, huh?

Also, CDB can go next.

[Tammy]

What did you expect from Tammy?

You and Nexus had both claimed VT or non-active roles. Tammy is perhaps the least familiar with the Greater Idea deck and with Patrick as a mod. She seemed like the best to push to go first as we figured Tammy-scum might be most likely to either claim something weird (that wouldn't fit well in the game) in anticipation of having to counter us, or to react in some way to the added pressure; or conversely, that Tammy-town making a claim that fitted really well would be a lot more believable. I also expected her to respond a bit more quickly than Elmo would (she was posting elsewhere on site), but that turned out to be wrong.

The fact that she was confident that we 'didn't have anything on her' made me think she's slightly more likely town, although CES is wondering if that is really the way she would respond if she is town. He thinks that her assumption that that's what we were doing could be more likely to come from a scum mindset. I'm still considering.

- Fenchurch

Yep, that's how I responded as town.


Your statement that I might change my role based on what you claimed sounded like you trying to make it seem like you had something on me either for reactions or to set me up. I knew you didn't have anything on me but the possibility of being set up still lingered. I imagine my scum response would have been different.

~~~

I'm trying to get current with today's stuff right now. I just remembered midterm grades are due today though so I might not get caught up until tonight. Which I promise when I get home from pub quiz I will do. I'm not sure if I have company coming this weekend yet or not, so I will make sure to do this before I go to bed tonight.

[Tammy]

Oh if we're in the middle of a mass claim I should probably hold off on thoughts, huh?

Tammy you implied here that maybe you already had some thoughts you were holding back? What were they?

- Fenchurch

Oh no, I was about to finish catching up on yesterday's posts when I realized that it was mass claim and I should hold off. Also, I was being somewhat selfish with my time as I was in the midst of a big kitchen cleaning/rearranging project yesterday, so the mass claim gave me a reason to keep working on that.

Also, pub quiz night went later than usual and I played video games when I got home instead of read because I'm a big fat liar, but it's okay because I found out my weekend is almost entirely free, which is sad face, but it also means I can get current/reread this weekend - tomorrow. Well later today actually because it's super late.

[Tammy]

Hmm...that's a good question. I mean my immediate response is town, but quite frankly it's probably not alignment indicative. I haven't been scum since capcom in December/January where I kept pretty on top of things except for when I was traveling/submitting final grades. I once told shadoweh that if I say I'm going to do something and I dont, I'm probably town because as scum I'd feel self-conscious about not doing it whereas as town I feel like my towniness will shine through when I do it. Nacho told me recently that I've turned into a slacker. I'm not sure that's exactly true though.

It's just that my professional life has gotten increasingly busier over the past couple years and my personal life has gotten fuller in the past few months.

Anyway my weekend is pretty free, but I will do this today.

[Tammy]

By today I mean Saturday. Sorry, I was here and planning to catch up, but I have unexpected plans. Tomorrow evening is still free for me, so I promise. I promise!

[Tammy]

I'm in the middle of rereading the game to reconnect myself and will have some thoughts/questions posted tonight when I get back home.

But real quick - fen church from your reads list I'm gathering that you basically have everyone at the same level of towniness/suspicion? Does ces have a similar view?

I had another quick question and now I can't remember it. Maybe it will come back to me.

[Tammy]

Oh I didn't realize post 465 was ces, though the voice makes a lot more sense now for what I thought sounded a bit tonally off from you. Granted I don't know you that well, but "now let's find some scum" felt oddly uh can't really think of he word, a bit off though if coming from you. I was also confused why you went from suggesting teams to having everyone equal.

[Tammy]

Wow, I'm pretty embarrassed to admit that I kinda forgot about this game for the past couple of days. I think that's the first time that's happened to me. Sorry all.

Porochaz - why did you choose to track CDB?

CES points out that even as a Tracker, Poro could be a Mafia Tracker, but thinks that if the claim is a lie or is scum this will become apparent come massclaim, so Poro is not the best lynch for today.

I'm inclined to believe the claim, and I'm inclined to think Poro is town now. I didn't have any strong read on him before anyway (the vote and the push was all from CES), and the hito-kill plus his claim make me think he's probably town.

My order of preference for lynching now:
scummiest > less scummy
Nexus >> Shanba > Primate/Elmo/CDB >>> Porochaz

I've read CDB's 228 on why he thinks Nexus is town, and I don't really agree. I think it assumes less from Nexus' scum play than is correct - that he wouldn't show engagement or investment in the game, that he wouldn't express opinions counter to the majority - I don't think these things are true. I think Nexus' play here could be scum, and I think he would be likely to kill hito last night.

VOTE: Nexus

- Fenchurch

Oh but fenchurch while you're around, is there a reason you pointed out that the push on Prozac was ces and you didn't have a strong read on him? You're very reflective on your thoughts and there's not a lot of indication that you weren't considering him as scum before that and in the end of day posts did have him listed as one of your biggest end of day suspects.

I feel like I might be getting hung up on something tiny here but it's rattling.

[Tammy]

I don't understand the mafia reflexive doctor discussion. From my understanding they protect whoever targets them, so if cdb was this role and prozac targetted him, then cdb would have automatically protected him? So, if someone targetted Prozac for the kill then Prozac would have been saved and come mass claim time cdb would have been caught as that role because there are no protectives?

Is my understanding correct? Since that didn't happen is there any bearing on the game or figuring out the game now beyond if we mislynch today, it actually has the potential to give us another day?

[Tammy]

<snip>

The reasonings for these feel like they should be closer in your reads than farther apart.

I don't really see what you mean.

It felt like the reasoning you were giving for being scummy and Prozac being townie were for somewhat similar reasons. They were both having problems getting into the game and were drawing heat. I guess the main difference was Prozac not being rattled by his wagon and you thought Avon was. Elmo said a similar thing about avox flailing but I didn't really see it. Although with how flustered I tend to get when there's a wagon on me, I tend to be a fair bit more forgiving over the flailing accusations.

[Tammy]

I'm still trying to make sense of the Hito night one kill. I think that cdb had a point that he could have easily have been a target on day two for his push on avox, and I think that might be the one thing that is keeping me looking a little sideways at ampersand even though their posting looks so town. i suck at balance, so I don't know what to think about the claim that tourist makes them more town. I guess I do like that they claimed something rather benign? And it does make me feel a little better that they didn't fake claim something on me which is what I partially had it in my mind they were going to do if they were scum as I think I'd be an easy person to set up after my disappearance yesterday.

Anyway, last nights kill makes sense. I had this silly thought that scum could have left Prozac alive in order to cause confusion but then that would be silly though looking at the end of day it looks like ampersand would have been a likely track target. Anyway my silly thought was oh but then he would have gotten an innocent on them because tourist, which is silly because they'd have to know tourist.

Anyway, I just kinda want to put these bits of paranoia to rest because it would be nice to have at least one solid town read that I can depend on, and I am of the mind that it's possible that ampersand just wasn't killed night one due to healer threat, and maybe Hito was the next choice because he was unlikely to be healed and he has a pretty good reputation for being obviously town when town and would have been able to overcome anything day two? Or maybe they thought that they had a better chance of manipulating those whom they know better?

I am concerned with the way that cdb came out on day two with the kill pointing to shanba. That might be hindsight bias though. I need to look back at that.

[Tammy]

Why is Nexus so town to you that he's not in your plausible scumteams? My first instinct coming into Today was to doubt my biggest reads, though Tammy/Elmo is necessarily my most likely pair now, especially after your claim.

If their claim reads town to you, and you've had nexus as a town read all game, and from your perspective it's me/Elmo, then why are you concerned about their town read on nexus?

[Tammy]

Yes.

Basically I'm paranoid about everything. I'm paranoid about the fact you're still alive. I'm paranoid about the fact CDB is still hard townreading me, although the fact he's kept it up to today makes me slightly less paranoid.

I need to do a genuine, honest to god re-read, and I will do it on Saturday.

Do you think scum cdb would be likely to change his mind on you today after town reading you so hard all game?

[Tammy]

Oh, more things. I'd definitely take a Nexus lynch over a Shanba lynch. CDB's read of him still weirds me out, though.

You say that you'd take a nexus lynch over a shanba lynch, but you never voted for nexus and in your previous post you're voting for cdb.

Do you think they're scum together? (I know you previously thought this), but if so why not push the cdb lynch harder?

[Tammy]

It's getting late and I have some other things to do. Tomorrow I want to read through isos and see if I can parse something out. This is a weird sor of lylo so far and I don't know what to make of it.

[Tammy]

Bye Elmo

Hopefully someone readable will replace in.

[Tammy]

I find it really concerning that cdb comes in here and sees that he's being paired with me on partnerships and immediately votes me. It makes me think he definitely is scum because I think town him who was supposedly going to reread his biggest town reads today, but then found reasons not to decided to make a hail mary push against me because as long as the day doesn't end with a cdb lynch then he'll win.

Lynching me will do nothing but hand scum the win and it feels like he's doing it to save himself. He'll probably "forget" about this game again and won't check in to even unvote, but whatever. If I'm not hammered in the morning that just means he's definitely scum, so I guess that will be nice to know.

[Tammy]

Been a busy couple days and empire is in town and I think staying here for the next couple days so I need to clean, etc. anyway, this is a prod dodge, but there's a possibility I will be here tonight.

[Tammy]

Also I want to declare that we are planning to vote Tammy soon.

- Fenchurch

Please don't. It's not going to further a town win. I'm not really sure what I can do to sway people either because you've all known each other and it just feels like I'm the odd one out here.

I don't think it's fair to compare my replace in to team mafia. In team mafia I had been following along from the beginning suw to it beg team mafia, and I had a strong scum read on bbt - that was correct- and a scum read on ces - that was correct. I had decent town reads on zach, ika, and antihero as well as regfanish.

Where those things were completely defined I felt strong, although people were arguing against my but read so I stod back.

Everything else was weak and I was fumbling around for where to find reads. I feel like that undefined aspect is more comparable to here where I haven't felt overwhelmingly great about reads.

But I guess since nobody has quick hammered it means that cdb is definitely scum, so can we please lynch scum and not me?

VOTE: cdb

I have a few things to do and then I will catch up here and get current.

[Tammy]

That was a typo.

[Tammy]

See I'm in a damned if I do damned if I don't situation here.

YOU compared my play to team mafia. That's the only reason I tried to explain myself about team mafia. It's disingenuous as fuck for you to claim that you're comparing my play to there and how you read me as town sooooooo much easier than here because of how I presented my thoughts, and then when I tell you why it's not fair for you to make that comparison, you go oh look she talked too much about team mafia.

You're comparing the reads I did have there which were strong to here which will always net an incorrect comparison. HOWEVER if you look at the intersections, those reads that weren't as strong and see how I was flailing about on those, they'd match up quite well to how I feel here, but you're only concentrating on the strong reads.

I really have no idea how me feeling defeated makes me scum. Everyone is gearing up to lynch me; I have not one ally at all. The only ally I did have was night killed. Everyone else has these weird notions of how I would behave in a game where I have no clue who scum is besides cdb and that's only thanks to the fact that I haven't been quick hammered. You're totally mistaking how I might behave in lylo in a game where I was here from the start and emotionally invested and doing everything from the start to how I might behave in a game in which I replaced in the day before lylo and came close to being lynched the day I replaced in. It's a whole other ballpark.

You're giving the game to CDB because he's your friend; there's not much I can do about that. And hey I completely understand, I'd want to believe my friend over someone I barely know too, but there's really not a whole lot that I can do when everyone wants to lynch me for lame reasons and the game ends with my lynch. If it had happened yesterday then at least I could put something out there that would help with solving the game, but I can't here. Maybe my play has been shit here, maybe it's been my fault. I don't know. I just don't know what else to do.

[Tammy]

Could you state read on me before you hammer please

Stop acting like there's going to be a tomorrow.

Also, nexus confirmed town, ampersand/cdb confirmed scum team although I suppose outside chance of boo kitty just not being around to hammer.

[Tammy]

See I'm in a damned if I do damned if I don't situation here.

YOU compared my play to team mafia. That's the only reason I tried to explain myself about team mafia. It's disingenuous as fuck for you to claim that you're comparing my play to there and how you read me as town sooooooo much easier than here because of how I presented my thoughts, and then when I tell you why it's not fair for you to make that comparison, you go oh look she talked too much about team mafia.

It's not about that you talked too much about team mafia in absolute terms; it's that there is a recurring pattern of where you seem to talk more freely about things that aren't this game. I mean, I have no clue what your opinion on Bookitty or Nexus is.

You're giving the game to CDB because he's your friend; there's not much I can do about that. And hey I completely understand, I'd want to believe my friend over someone I barely know too, but there's really not a whole lot that I can do when everyone wants to lynch me for lame reasons and the game ends with my lynch. If it had happened yesterday then at least I could put something out there that would help with solving the game, but I can't here. Maybe my play has been shit here, maybe it's been my fault. I don't know. I just don't know what else to do.

I don't get how you can accuse us of giving the game to CDb if at the same time you claim not to be able to give any arguments for CDb being scum. Do you

He's voting me and there wasn't a quick hammer. He's confirmed scum. But you know this.

[Tammy]

Sorry I haven't been really communicative. My Internet has been up and down (I don't know why, but at a guess it has to do with thunderstorms and heat) and I had a post typed up here this morning that went poof when my 'Net went down.

In short, I'm fine with the Tammy lynch. I am sure Nexus is town. I think I could probably make a case for CDB-scum, if that's wanted, but I just don't feel it myself. (His absence after I said I thought he was town, though, isn't making me feel all kittens and puppies about him.)

I'm going to try to make a better post once my Internet is more stable. For now, though, I'm going to say that I think the best chance for hitting scum for sure in LYLO is to vote Tammy, because:

I don't think Nexus is scum
I don't think Ampersand and CDB can be scum together
So Ampersand-Tammy or CDB-Tammy are the only viable possibilities from my perspective

My vote will be going to Tammy sometime before deadline.

I realize you said you suck at reading me and we don't have much experience together, but can you extend me a little trust or interact with me to get a better picture.

If you're town here, cdb and ampersand are confirmed scum, can I interest you in a vote there? Ampersand had played a hell of a game, but town still has a chance to win this, but for that to happen I need someone to trust me.

[Tammy]

Deadline is in just over an hour.

Anyone got anything else to say before I hammer?

That goes for you to except you are definitely confirmed town, please don't just listen to them. We can still win this.

[Tammy]

CDB: you have inspi as most scummy, neutral on AVox, and Poro as not voteworthy. What are your reasons for these reads, please?

Inspie isn't anything that I haven't said in thread but I feel like his entrance was empty and unhelpful, and his subsequent justification of it seemed like he was making it up a bit after the fact. I liked your #77 in that regard.

AVox is probably up from neutral to scummy now. I thought his first couple of posts were pretty nondescriptly Avoxy and was waiting to get a bit more input but his interactions with you on Wednesday don't look great. The fact that his last posts are asking a couple of clarificationy questions on which he never followed up doesn't sit well to me - looks more like scum posting to be seen posting rather than town actually trying to get answers to figure out anything.

Prozac just seems pretty town. He's here, and he's making some kind of effort even if he's admittedly struggling to get into things at times. His reads are maybe not meshing with others' perfectly and he's had some heat with which to deal but he doesn't strike me as particularly rattled by it.

Assuming boo kitty is town, this is some typical scum/scum interactions. Oh what are your fake reads, person who's definiteky not my partner *wink wink*

And I pointed out how these reads don't make any sense. If you look at the reasons he shouldn't be reading avox as scum and Prozac as town because he could very easily be describing the same person here. And if you look at the players involved, it doesn't make any sense. Why would people expect that Prozac, who enjoys playing scum, would flail at his wagon. He knows better? Then why use that as a reason?

This is faking reasons for reads and it's pretty disgusting that he holds that up to go after quite possibly one of the easiest lynched in this player list and then has the nerve to kill Hito and then claim he shouldn't have died because he'd have pushed Hito for his avox push if he had lived.

[Tammy]

I'm rereading some of the end of Day 1 that I mostly missed (apologies for that 'n' stuff). Hito kill strikes me as odd; I might have been prepared to go after him for some of his AV push. I guess scum were pushing for activity kills and, if they were, I would have thought that Ampersand were a more obvtown option.

This could get invalided next post I read but wanted to post it so it's obvious that I'm not just dodging tonight.

Well now we know why ampersand didn't die!

[quote="cdb]

OK, caught up now. Follow-up to previous post: I think hito dying over Ampersand might make a bit more sense if Shanba is scum.

CDB, specifically, you voted AV because you thought Prozac looked fairly town; what do you think about Shanba, and his reasons in #104? In retrospect, I would've expected you to press him on that.

I found Shanba's #104 re: Prozac pretty dry and uninteresting; it certainly didn't do anything to persuade me at the time. Now I'm rereading it just after thinking 'I wonder if hito was right about Shanba' so there's a bit of bias coming into the read, but it does feel a little like motions are being gone through. It's not obvious why Shanba seems to frame it as if he must choose between Nexus and Prozac right now. His reasons for the Prozac vote are ... yeah, dry. Like, he's pointing out behaviour that is not what anyone would call ideal, I guess, but I don't really feel like it's anything out of the ordinary.

VOTE: Shanba

I still think that Nexus is town. Ampersand and Primate are also pretty strong townreads. Shanba + one of Elmo/Prozac? Maybe. I'm probably going to concentrate on getting one before I start worrying about partners too much.

Okay so after voting the easiest mislynch of day one, he questions the nightkill, and then goes after the next easiest mislynch for committing the night kill.

[Tammy]

I'm here! Skimming up a bit. I have no reason to doubt Prozac's claim.

Of course he didn't. That's because he's scum and knew that Prozac was town and not lying.

Besides why would he question it when it semi cleared him from a no action standpoint and gave him a clear from the lynch that most likely would have happened/should have happened day two.

[Tammy]

My impression is that CDB doesn't strongly bus that often. And seems like it kinda has been working? But this still feels like I'm being dumb. Basically I need someone to tell me why my theory is stupid so I can stop considering it.

Last time that I was scumbuddies with Nexus, I bussed him into a volcano.

I had been toying with the idea that this could point to a cdb/nexus pairing with him purposefully going in a different direction and highlighting that here, but nexus is confirmed town now so that's not it.

[Tammy]

Shanba voting no-votes-Elmo with less than 3 hours to deadline is so WTF that it seems like an odd kind of towntell, because what kind of scum tries to not-die by doing that? Tempted to move to Prozac.

I thought that Elmo had gotten after cdb for his reaction to the Prozac claim but he didn't he got after nexus for it, which is weird because at first cdb just believed it to. I thought that cdb could be showing some waffling here to make up for too readily believing the claim, but now I'm thinking that it's possible he's waffling on the claim to throw off Elmo's selective scum hunting, which would make them partnered, not ampersand.

Ampersand, if you are indeed town here, please unvote, so we have a chance at this.

I am town. Cdb is scum.

Please reread him with that in mind.

Getting rid of the tracker here would have been perfect.

[Tammy]

Why Tammy?

Wondering if Tammy's sudden burst of activity upon replacing in was scum enjoying the challenge of trying to overcome a pretty barren predecessor's iso and earn some big towncred by injecting some life into a slow game. It's really not much, but Primate looks less town in iso than I remembered him being.

This is so superficial. First off it's trying to get rid of someone while they're not around and could be a role. Would make it so easy to get rid of me while I'm not here because during the times I do get wagoned, it tends to give me the push I need to be really obviously town and figure out where the scum are when in behind or confused.

This is also bogus because it's a well established fact that I hate scum and feel like I suck at it. There would be no "enjoying the challenge", I'd have been fucking miserable from the start. No, this is claiming that my rl business had anything to do with my alignment and not the fact that I just had company in town that weekend.

He was trying to get rid of me while I wasn't around instead of deal with me because he knew that I wouldn't make sense as a nightkill this game.

[Tammy]

Please hold I'll be back in a bit.

But cdb is confirmed scum.

Ampersand should unvote if they're town before boo kitty can quick hammer.

It doesn't make any sense for ampersand to be voting me and encouraging nexus to take his time reading and not vote until deadline. That's just manipualtive nullshit designed to make it look like they care and are concerned about the game as well.

If they were so convinced I was scum, so as to vote me in lylo, they wouldn't be encouraging for someone to take their time.

[Tammy]

Yes they would.

Says scum already tasting his victory.

[Tammy]

Why do we think we have a reflexive doctor again? I must've missed something.

Nothing definitive, but that's definitely the scum power that I would pick if I were designing a game with a tracker and a lone mason and a tourist as the town's power. It's also very possibly the one that I would pick even without a tourist, but think the tourist makes for a better setup. It makes the mason sorta mean something, it makes the tourist potentially mean something, it gives the tracker a chance to not die. It feels like the right amount of protection in a nine-player game. And I'm pretty sure that it's a role of which Patrick is a fan in general.

I don't think that the above makes it more likely that we'd be able to find scum based on who might be a mafia reflexive doctor but, if I had to bet on the setup, that'd be my punt.

This makes so much more sense now as does the entire play. They designed this together, and knowing Patrick as well as they do, they added something that they would be able to explain away as most likely. This is why they wanted me to go first because there was a possibility, which they even admit, that I could have been a power role and they didn't want to make a misstep because what if I had been a tourist? Too risky. They weren't concerned about nexus going after them because as they said he all but claimed vanilla anyway.

There is a chance that ampersand is the town one here depending on boo kitty, but in that case cdb is just sucking up to a town player he knew how to play his cards with and what to do for them to avoid voting him and voting me instead. Fenchurch has already shown that she's willing to go after whoever shows suspicion of her, so he knows his best bet is to claim that he was going to reread them but then has this great reason why he just doesn't need to.

Either way you shake it cdb is scum.

[Tammy]

Anyway tl:dr cdb is confirmed scum.

Hopefully if ampersand are town they come to their senses and unvote before boo kitty can quick hammer.

IF not, this game is in boo kitty and nexus' hands. IFor that's the case, I'll be around and will help in anyway I can.

[Tammy]

I am town, and we are about to lose this game because of me and you're criticizing how things look to me when you are voting for me?

Uh-uh.

[Tammy]

I wish I knew if boo kitty read, but I guess if she had and knew that was a discussion, she'd make a point of saying not hammering?

[Tammy]

I mean, if people are actually thinking of buying into what Tammy is selling here, just reread this:

I'm here! Skimming up a bit. I have no reason to doubt Prozac's claim.

Of course he didn't. That's because he's scum and knew that Prozac was town and not lying.

Besides why would he question it when it semi cleared him from a no action standpoint and gave him a clear from the lynch that most likely would have happened/should have happened day two.

This is the formula for every one of Tammy's recent posts. "I have to argue that CDB is scum" leads to "here is something he did that is completely alignment-neutral, IT'S BECAUSE HE'S SCUM".

If anyone's still worried that it might be me and Tammy, this should be the proof against. Bussing is good because you know that you can find things that your buddy has done that are scum-motivated, but Tammy is dredging up things that have no bias towards either possible motivation and trying to paint me as scum for them.

You are confirmed scum, which means your motivation there was scum and was to further a scum win, which you're probably about to get so yay you, good job.

[Tammy]

Gg town.

Thanks Patrick for running it and letting me replace in even though it was scum.

I almost just rolled over and let you guys lynch me, but I figured I should give some kind of fight even if it sucked.

Sorry for disappearing that weekend and missing deadline; I was telling the truth about why I went silent though!