Mini 1730: Suikoden U-Pick GAME OVER

[Suzune]

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

Seems like a good start.

[Suzune]

So what are we thinking here, Elbirn clearly wants those votes. Why though.

[Suzune]

My only other thought was a jester. In your suggestion LQ, Since we would not know what we were activating it would be silly for us to get the votes up that much.

[Suzune]

Well I will question all unusual actions at the very least.

[Suzune]

No I will not lynch you because clearly there is something in this for you. With so few cards on the table I see not why we should gamble.

[Suzune]

VOTE: elbirn

Your wish is my command.

why are you not thinking about the repercussions of this? Who wants to be lynched? Clearly something is in it for them.

[Suzune]

So how come no one thinks it's weird he wants to be lynched and there is zero caution...

[Suzune]

That I would agree to. Although it is half about timing too.

[Suzune]

That I would agree to. Although it is half about timing too.

Perhaps Jeanne thinks better to side with you then fight you. It is a lot of effort to push against you about something.

As for LQ, usually I think, wow he is so town. However I am not getting that vibe. Although I sense the confusion about the tunnel might be genuine.

[Suzune]

Yeah, but sometimes you have to be the voice of reason when no one else is thinking.

[Suzune]

Suzune, do you see LQ as role fishing?

I will not lie to you. I lack the talent of figuring out from people posting what kind of role they have. So while I envy this skill in others, I cannot see it well myself. So my opinion means little, however, I do not see how he is rolefishing. I think there is little information to be gained from those opening posts nor can I see how Jeanne would end up in a pickle where she would be forced to crumb. Although, it might have been to test the water.

[Suzune]

Also, how am I tunneling? The game's hardly started...

Well LQ seems to think you are. That says something.

[Suzune]

You don't have to have the talent to see role fishing. Role fishing is done by those who can't see crumbs, not those who can.

Alas, I fake the skills I do not have, while looking with the ones I do. What you say is probably a fair assessment.

[Suzune]

Your language seems stilted Suzune. What gives?

It is actually my usual. It drives Vyse crazy, haha. When I put a lot of effort into something or I have time to reason things out, typically I tend to drain all the emotion from my posts but the more involved I get the more it bleeds.

[Suzune]

Although I can say the role the mod gave me was very cool awkward and just all around appropriate.

Well I am glad you thought yours was cook awkward.

Also, I have no flavour knowledge either. I went into it with the attitude of I wonder what the Fire Emblem comparison is?

[Suzune]

This scumling right here.

Honestly, anyone who voted you because you asked is suspicious.

[Suzune]

I apologize I have a drop I guest this evening I will be around early tomorrow.

[Suzune]

I will try to do one now, I realized there have been many posts and should. It might just be a speed catch up.

[Suzune]

Eight pages in one day, that seems like a lot.

Catch Up post~

Cuz he's scum?
How do you know?

Beat me to it. It was the first thing I thought when I was reading that right now...

All the fruit conversation looks like more the small talk to me. I have never seems casual small talk in a mafia game on mafiascum before. However, once a mafia partner and I had an elaborate code where everyone was food names although we never used it much. Honestly that is the first thing that I think about when I see this. I wonder if there is more going on, they both mentioned elderberries which seem like an odd choice to me.

SO yeah, Suzune, what are you afraid of seeing happen if we lynch elbirn as he has requested?

Well my gut feeling, although they are less common on mafia scum was jester. My second thought is one Lickey mentioned was that some power would unlock being close to death. This is based on a video game so I think the idea is not terribly far fetched.

[Suzune]

I hear that it is hard to get farm land in North America this time of year. So it took a little longer the expected.

[Suzune]

It is my concern that the elderberries will be eaten much too quickly to be a viable fruit choice for the recipes.

[Suzune]

Kiwi might be a tad tart in the food but I is a viable choice. Certainly get a reaction from the guests. Apples would also be delicious in my opinion.

[Suzune]

So......what do the farmers say?

You reap what you sow. You pushed the plan too fast and we reaped no harvest. Simple as that.

I find myself agreeing with Reasonably Rational simply because if you wanted to discover scum through a potential quick hammer the votes would have to have been closer that someone would have wanted to make the risk to kill a townie. That would mean one of them would have to sacrifice themselves for the team. Therefore, since it was still so open and opinions were really divided at the point of the lock. It makes me wonder what was supposed to happen. I understood what was supposed to happen but I do not think that did happen here. It was too early, the plan jumped the gun.

[Suzune]

So......what do the farmers say?

You reap what you sow. You pushed the plan too fast and we reaped no harvest. Simple as that.

I find myself agreeing with Reasonably Rational simply because if you wanted to discover scum through a potential quick hammer the votes would have to have been closer that someone would have wanted to make the risk to kill a townie. That would mean one of them would have to sacrifice themselves for the team. Therefore, since it was still so open and opinions were really divided at the point of the lock. It makes me wonder what was supposed to happen. I understood what was supposed to happen but I do not think that did happen here. It was too early, the plan jumped the gun.

*sighs* I SAID I WOULD BE BUSY ON MONDAY, K? DON'T KNOW ABOUT WHERE YOU LIVE, BUT HERE, REAL LIFE IS MORE IMPORTANT. IF YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND THAT, THEN U ARE STUPID......

do not snap at me. I would have just waited longer. Real life is important for me and I play when I have time. Do not suppose to understand my life or to discredit me. It was merely my observation on the plan.

[Suzune]

Why would scum use it know?
Idk?
Because that's what town would do if they had the role to look town?

This kind of reasoning is kind of strange. Does scum not use all roles because they would think that townies would use it that way. I am uncertain that you can claim that that an action is scummy because scum would use it in that way to be townie.

[Suzune]

Well, you're scum with wgeurts and LQ then and the three of you are trying to trick us.

Who is, I'm confused. Why are you so upset? who is scum with who?

@Titus, it is kind of a on again off again mason. I had one of these in another game, we called the ability "the cook"

p-edit titus, No you are incorrect. On another site I have a role created to be used there call "The Hacker". The hacker has the power to hack the vote count. Since we do not play with hammers there whoever has the most votes at the end is the one who gets lynched, so that hacker and replace the votecount with one from an earlier point of the phase changing the lynch target. This is a scum role and most scum use it early because it messes with who the town thinks is mafia and scum because everyone wants to know who they were saving. So I would say using it early has its advantages. Pushing the phase early easpecially when we wanted to use it for townie purposes makes those who were doing the initial planning look like scum. So one could argue it was used correctly.

[Suzune]

Links for Titus
The development began here in my Fall game for Persona 3 x Noctune game. The persona 3 main character had it here in it's earliest form. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1 ... sg37236775

Later used by Pyro and I in the Call of Duty Mafia
Role description because it appeared in a private club

Spoiler:

Burtus- Hacker
no one escapes his cell block. once you are in you are in for life. brutus has the power to switch the vote list out with one that appeared earlier in the day. thus voiding all votes that came after that one. with the votes stacked against you, you are going to need a cell block tango.

[Suzune]

I concerns me that Titus and I are on the same page. I feel like that never happens...

[Suzune]

I was hoping that Jeanne calmed down a little bit and would come to her senses but that almost never happens. As weird as it is to say, people who snap at me almost always flip scum. Naturally she kicked me from the private topic, I wanted to see if I could calm her down a little but there was nothing that could be done.

VOTE: Jeanne

I will vote Jeanne but not just for you. I would also like an answer to my post that apparently never got posted. I guess I will just resay it here. Jeanne why are you so upset? I do not understand where all this rage came from and choosing to insult multiple people and then storm out helps no one, town nor a mafia faction. It makes it look like you go caught with your hand in the cookie jar. Which is frankly quite confusing to me.

Although I will switch back to LQ should something happen on the positive with Jeanne. I left her a bit of rope, let us see if she answers me.

[Suzune]

Jeanne, Shiro is not in this game. So past issues are past. We are looking at this time and this game alone. How precisely did Titus betray you? Excuse me a tad, but I may overstep my bounds, who cares what Titus thinks of you. Play the game. When you started rage posting you made yourself look scummy that is my opinion.

A level head is the key to understanding. I did not treat you as a fool, however, I thought the plan was inopportune and not well executed.

[Suzune]

I am inclined to think that LQ is still scum, BM has way too few posts to make a read, now...

Wgeurts is an interesting question. Clearly they are very focused on you. Everything you do is being studied. I think even if they are town that single mindedness is not actually very useful to the town and actually comes off as anti-town because it is not really a tunnel, but just a fixation.

Jeanne, I think could use another push. Last time their panic was ugly and anti-town. I would bite that, just to see if maybe her buddies calmed her down a tad.

[Suzune]

Last time Titus was scum. Why are you not addressing that too?!

What do you mean last time Titus was scum. Yes the last game I played with and Titus was scum, he asked me a whole bunch of questions too so I am being wary.

[Suzune]

So then why are you favoring her being town over me being town? Is it favoritism or something?

Friends close, enemies closer. I do not want to be manipulated again, so I have to wait and judge. But he seems kind of townie to me. Your reaction was the huge tip of for me. You stopped thinking, and stopped helping down and went straight for insults. I don't want to come off as coaching here, so this is just what I think.

[Suzune]

I had counted on you two helping me find scum, that's why I invited you to a farm. Now you're both turning against that?

I believe I said, I would give you a chance. Did you not read that?

[Suzune]

Part of me thinks you are merely wounded town Jeanne

[Suzune]

I'm just going to toss this out there. When we were chosen to join the private topic, it said we had been invited to the strategy table. Random strangers would not be invited to the strategy table on the battlefield, therefore, i think it cannot be a mafia ability. hm, but her reaction was so...but logically speaking it makes sense.

[Suzune]

Suzune, never clear or scumfirm based on ability. I had a doc inventor as scum. Used it to sail for days.

I know, but thematically it makes sense. Theme reads are meaningless though.

[Suzune]

Glad you pointed this out because yes, my attention to relevant details suck balls. I go about completely different ways at reading people.

Curiosity killed the cat, so how do you go about it?

[Suzune]

While I do not approve of her behavior, I think more and more as I reread why she said that Jeanne might just be wounded town...clearly her heart is in the town. Or at least, I think she is moving with town motivation.

I will return my vote to LQ
VOTE: LQ

Fix'd your vote tag <3

[Suzune]

LQ you have almost the exact opposite reads of be, with the exception of Titus still running a gambit because I think he is.

[Suzune]

I find reasonably rational to make a lot of sense. His comments and attitudes appear protown. He makes cases comes to a deciding factor and articulates it in such a way that his point is clear. Personally I find him town.

What other lurkers would you like to hear about. Now in my opinion being a lurker is hard to read because they say less things. The less they say the less ripples they create in the water, the less I can read them. I tend to read comments that are surface based and look to see how people react. This reaction tells me how people think and how they feel about things. Scum trying to be normal or spin a lie create certain kinds of ripples. Therefore people like Magik and pistashion are hard to read because they have little context for me to go off of.

[Suzune]

I think RR would prolly look town to you no matter what, but eh, I just have a different way of looking at them

Well goodness...glad to know that they would look town to me regardless...

Tell me what you see?

[Suzune]

I think his reasoning is sound. post 652 and post 712 highlight good thinking and reasoning that suggests motives behind the situation. A scum would not have to punch holes in the plan of someone else, we could all see that the gambit with Elbrin, Titus, Jeanne and Suzune failed. However, the logic used to explain it was well done and he listened to Jeanne's outbursts and responded in kind. I think that Drixx's frustration was well placed and his explanations were tone appropriate.

[Suzune]

LQ we have bumped heads in the past at the best way to read people and to understand who is town and who is not. Last time it was under the gaze of Suzune as mafia and LQ as town. I believe that this time we might be looking at this from the opposite perspective. However, regardless of my alignment I look at and read people in the same way, I am unsure whether that is true for you. However, I am certain that we do not look for the same things. I find it hard to imagine, regardless of what Titus says about roles, that a mediator kind of roll feel into the hands of a mafia. Now, as a third party I can understand that, however usually unless they have a specialized win condition that kind of third party role seeks to aid one faction or the other, typically the town. We have used them before in other games, we called it being asked to tea, coming to the party, the chef, all kinds of favourful language. Therefore those invited or those communicated with could end up not town.

This is something to consider. I have more interesting cards in my hand because I was invited. However, I think that unless Titus is running a very powerful gambit and it if it works then my hat is off to him. Thus I added a few people to my pile of who I think must be townies based on what I already knew. From there I narrowed the field to what other people were thinking and how they were reacting. While I think the in game gambit failed, I think it is possible that some results were yielded even thought they were not the intended ones.

Scum are not creatures that can be found or hidden in flavourful language, however I have a hard time reading jokes and other play on words. Therefore, I tend to read what people say and how they react to the information given. People cannot help the context clues that give through interaction. People you know really well you fear will see through you so your interaction is more strained this is why it is hard to play when you are friends with a lot of people in game. It is harder to keep up a deception because of the way your words sound. Thus, I think there are no reads as simple as well articulated but it was the point that was made and the reaction people had too it that tips me. Sure it is possible that RR is mafia, however, at this current moment I do not think so.

[Suzune]

First off, congrats on the wall post; I don't think I've seen you do that before.

They are not as uncommon as you seem to think. It happens for many reasons usually related to how passionate I feel about something, being in trouble, or leading a case.

[Suzune]

First off, congrats on the wall post; I don't think I've seen you do that before.

They are not as uncommon as you seem to think. It happens for many reasons usually related to how passionate I feel about something, being in trouble, or leading a case.

Ok, so which one is it this time? I don't think its leading a case since for some reason I've been suspected seriously within the first 5 pages. It doesn't really look like you're in trouble at all? I mean I gave you a little pressure and you give me an essay. It must be that you just feel passionate about this subject.

Looking back at our AMS game I think there were a few wall posts you made. Didn't mean it to offend you at all. I know that you as a literary degree you are fully capable of writing walls, I just don't see you do it too often.

Honestly it was more of an information dump. A way to see what what going on in my head and to make connections. You must happened to be around to be the listener of it. When I am playing as scum I usually talk to myself in the topic to hear my own thoughts and see if they make sense. So when I cannot do that I journal them or just kind of dump them somewhere so I can go back and review the. Later. You were just a good listener.

Nah, no offense taken. I did not feel offended in the least. I have several degrees none that really help in mafia.

[Suzune]

VOTE: ranger

why so?

[Suzune]

I didn't like the secret vote in the dark mechanic. It seems to me it's just a sneaky way for Scum to create a mislynch. No one can see the count, no one can claim at L-1... No, I don't like it.

I don't think the concept of secret votes is a mechanic that favors town or mafia. Yes it can create a mislynch but a wise townie could also use it to keep the town from debating when it was at L-1

The only way anyone can prove anything is by mod confirmation or flip.

There is always a way to swing things so that the town sees that your power is being used for good. Unless you mess up and damage the town...so that is something that could be done. However, I feel like if I was in the same place and I was a vanilla townie or something that I would just claim that.

This is a misrep of me unless you click on the post. it is actually comprised of 2 quotes: one where Elb says "because he's Scum?" and me responding "How do you know?"

I am really disappointed in you Suzune, like really. Why do this?

I did not misrepresent you, I only tagged on that I would have asked the same question. I said nothing negative or positive about you really just that I had the same though. All I did was post a thought paragraph afterwards on my opinion about something. Oh second part of it. Is that not what you said to me? That you played a game that someone gained a power after so many votes. If I misunderstood then I apologize, however, I thought that is what you said.

@Suzune, why have you not seen the Town points I have made? What made you satisfied with keeping a vote on us for so long since the beginning of the game? On the one hand I feel the vote on me is really oportunistic and on the other hand I feel you wouldn't be that obvious as Scum. Help me out here. Why are you nonchalantly voting me?

That makes me laugh for some reason the thought of someone nonchalantly voting. I am voting for you for a small pool of reasons. The first being that you usually shout town to me, I mean shout it on the top of your lungs, but this time I feel really odd about you and your playing style. That strikes a cord with me. In the early game, all your posts seemed to create ripples and expect more push from you more read from you, but this side of LQ I cannot get a handle on. Usually you are vocal, opinioned on reads, playing hard and fast. You seem out of your element. I have never seen you play as scum before, but you seen quite odd here.

You have been really adamant about I am town because I say I am town. This seems odd to me. I know I have made this arguement before in the past, however you are in no real danger so the fact that it keeps coming up interests me. It almost seems like if I say it enough they will believe it. I see no positive post from you that show your position or how you are reading people. The things you have posted are one liners about not liking their tone or not having a comment. You would also not defend yourself in post 332. Which strikes me as odd. I realise there might not have been enough pressure but I feel like not backing yourself is an odd strategy.

That is kind of a window into what I am thinking.

Long post----being divided here

[Suzune]

There should be no mistakes. Since I am town, anyone who reads me as scum is scum from my point of view

Is this post serious? I mean people might always read you as scum, if everyone who ever read me as scum when I was town was mafia then I would have so many scum reads all the time...

Okay, maybe it was not going to be super long...

[Suzune]

I don't care. I am aiming for the town win, and anyone who hinders that shall burn.

Small wonder this comment comes off as anti-town. It is strong belief that townies listen to and hear posts in order to understand and work through motive. Understanding how people will act comes from seeing where they are coming from.

[Suzune]

Okay, here are my reads. They're all gut reads for now.

I feel like I am a pain with you but, Jeanne, could you give us a little bit of substance.

Your not masons, otherwise you wouldn't have voted em

Well this is true. I would call it temporary aid. At least masons know that everyone present is town.

So just because I have voted them, I cannot be in masonry/neighbourhood with them,

Perhaps this is a rule I am unfamiliar with. But Masons can vote masons. I have allowed my masons to do it before in order to keep their teammates from being nightkilled because they would always have a small suspicion on them.

[Suzune]

LQ is spiralling down the ladder towniness in these posts.

I wonder if that is fair considering who is he is fighting against. LQ is logical and reasonable, while Jeanne is passionate and emotional.

p-edit- Thank you Reasonably Rational and I apologize for missing it.

[Suzune]

looking for how Elb and Suz fit into this,

I don't know how I fit in, I know I was invited to be part of it. It was an adventure.

Weird conversation going on, on page 43 about helping people. Now when I am really in a bind or I need help I will try to see if some of the posts are talking to me. Or if someone knows something about my alignment and are helping me without helping me. Now this we are coaching you in the topic and making obvious about it is interesting. When one does it for themselves it seems normal or regular. People do not admit to being in a bind and instead try to read out and understand the game. However, this is explicit helping. Now sometimes you can help not obviously however I wonder about this. See the more I read it the more townie feelings I feel from them, however, this raises red flags of manipulation for me because you are saying how to think.

Am I now town?

You are interesting to say the least.

LQ is spiralling down the ladder towniness in these posts.

I wonder if that is fair considering who is he is fighting against.

LQ is logical and reasonable

, while Jeanne is passionate and emotional.

p-edit- Thank you Reasonably Rational and I apologize for missing it.

Thanks, but you're wrong.

Hm, I do not think so. You post logically and with patience. You read people for more then their words because you gave me a fantastic read once. However, to each their own.

[Suzune]

If we lynch LQ and he flips Scum that's great, but I'd like a lynch that gives us information.

This is a fair point because many people seem to be leaning against LQ, that limits the amount of information that is obtained from the flip.

[Suzune]

Information is always gained, what's important is getting people on record before the flip about *why* they're leaning against him.

I will give this to you. However, when a lot of people believe on thing, it gets hard to tell who is having original ideas and who is copying. However, your point is fair.

[Suzune]

No, because so far the only people that I town-read have disagreed with me solely because I am yelling, not because I read LQ as scum.

Okay listen. I have had about enough of this. It is difficult to read and study this game if you are going to make nine thousand posts about why we should read things the way you are. I honestly, do not doubt you are townie however I would like to ask one townie to the next if you could comprise your thoughts to one post please. This will allow the rest of the town to comprise lists, it is hard to descern who is mafia and who is town for ourselves and make decent cases when everyone is so focused on you. The town is a team. It needs to be played like that.

Unfortunately, you are in the minority on that one. If what you said was true, more people would see it that way.

Perhaps it is an acquired taste. Your posting style and attack patterns are your own and I see wisdom in them.

OK, I'm caught up (I think). Doesn't look like much happened. People are still Scum reading me for no reason or poor reasons.

Apparently nothing I said in 941 interested you then. Fair enough...

[Suzune]

I have composed them, and nobody is reading.

There is nothing to fight right now. Allow people to deliberate. I try not to hand out free advice in mafia games until after but let me give you a little. Your emotions give the mafia control over you and they will force your hand certain directions by charging you up. Please be informed.

[Suzune]

And why aren't you visiting the farm anymore?

I don't know about Titus, but I cannot physically visit the farm right now, however, I am participate in farm communication through this topic.

[Suzune]

Well, I this is a new one for me. Usually speaking, games of mafia scum do not gain ten pages in less then twenty four hours. Catch up post coming.

He is correct, though, in that you haven't actually learned a shitton yet

I have to agree with RR. I feel like if you had actually gained quite a bit of knowledge you would not announce it. Unless you wanted to see whether the mafia would target you. This is why it is hard for information roles to decide when to show their power because they risk dying and taking the information with them or bluffing and hoping for the best.

Claiming now may help as let's face it, he's probably getting lynched anyway so doing it now rather than later could gain us some time.

I hate to be the negative person here, but does it really matter what she claims. In a role madness kind of game like this doctor is just as likely to end up as mafia as town. Therefore, unless the role she claims is like drop dead town, I am uncertain it will help at all. Some roles one would think have to be town but still.

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

I did already, but no one responded to them, not even LQ. It can be found here if you are curious: post 941

Suzune was RVS.

I made a post for you about it a few days ago. In case my reason for keeping the vote were not clear.

There was a role claim in here, therefore, my original posting concerns about LQ cases might need to be retracted right now. I will read more of the claim tomorrow.

Elaborate on this please. I've heard a couple different things so far.

1) Titus can send out two messages per day
2) Jeanne can invite one person to a neighborhood.

Neither of those correspond with you being invited to some other PT.

I know very little about Titus I am afraid. I was never in a private topic with him, I was brought after him. So I was invited after Jeanne invited Titus. Or at least that is how I understand it. Where I am from we call this role "The Chef" usually. They are able to bring people regardless of alignment together for a small period of time. So Jeanne chose me and we talked. This is how I was filled in on the gambit.

Continuing this conversation down into the next posts. Titus, I can speak for myself he asked me the question. I agree that Titus should not have answered for me if for nothing else then it is annoying. I can answer my own questions.

[Suzune]

I have my sights set on you next, RR.

Personally I think this is a bad choice.

Anyways. Today should be spent pressuring BM, pistachion, and Klingon. We need thoughts on everything from those 3 slots.

Personally I wonder if Pistachion is lynch bait but the others are believe are worth the push.

p-edit, I apologise Jeanne but I agree that you were left alive because you hinder the town. You need to calm down today a little otherwise the town will not be able to think and reason.

[Suzune]

Titus and I discussed this in private. Pushing RR and Klingon was her idea. Had she not been killed, she would confirm this.

I hate to burst your bubble but I do not follow Titus's orders blindly. He has gotten my lynched on orders and plans before. I tend to think for myself. So as glad as I am that you two planned something. I am not in on it this time and therefore, I will chase leads that I think are important.

[Suzune]

Pisachion would be easy to make a case on they have few posts and none of them are particularly townie, although a couple could have been sorted into that pile. I would be interested in seeing what they have today. However, I fear that it would be a quick lynch if people started to rally against them. While the speed of the lynch might tell us things as well...

Goodness it is so confusing to look at people's ISO because half the people are only talking to Jeanne about what she thinks and this is throwing off my ability to detect weirdness.

However, for today I think that Kling is probably a good target, however I would also be interested in pushing BRantz for more information on him. Most of his posts yesterday were trying to settle Jeanne and this means we got little of his opinions. That is kind of safe pushing Jeanne because as long as you side with her you are her friend. Therefore, I think we need to find out what people are thinking.

p-edit x9, this is the response to your question RR

[Suzune]

You seem to not understand that you noisiness is better for the scum.

[Suzune]

Thats fine as long as you are posting things that add something to the game. 90% of your posts yesterday didn't.

Well since you are around. Who are you getting a scum feeling from? Where do you stand right now in the game?

[Suzune]

Reasonable, for lack of a better way to describe it. You are very reasonable, you make sense to me. Your posts are strong and I understand them well. However, naturally this means that I will have to go back later and look for strangeness in your posts to see if you are deceiving the town. However, for now I think you are trustworthy.

p-edit- Jeanne town has no choice

[Suzune]

Exactly. Town would never leave me alive.

Actually if you know that, why do you help the scum so much...

[Suzune]

Also, why do you help the scum so much, Suzune. Mine and Ranger's gut wasn't wrong on the first day, so what makes you think it'll be wrong on the 2nd?

What? I made the actual case against LQ in the game topic, now I realise for some reason no one read it. However, I used more then gut. What makes you think that I cannot read another person. Seriously? Just because I get a good hand in cards one round, does not mean I will the next time. I prefer data and you keep me from getting it.

[Suzune]

Also, just because you're all logic doesn't mean you're above the rest of us. Your opinion isn't the only thing that matters. Everyone's opinion matters.

All I am saying is that not following your gut does not make someone's posts anti-townie....Jeanne you are unusual. I pride myself on my ability to post as neutrally as possible however you drive me crazy that I cannot do that well...

[Suzune]

Um, I apologise english is not my first language. But is demonize the right word here. Demonize means to be perceived as threatening, so like a demon. I do not believe anyone is perceiving Titus's opinions as threatening, RR is merely starting they are based on assumptions. We all make decisions that are based on assumptions throughout the game. However, as the game state evolves and fleshes out assumptions need to be revisited in order to keep them fresh.

[Suzune]

I am also still around to talk

[Suzune]

Blackest Magick just to be fair, I am going tell you where I stand on you. On the sliding scale of townie and scum, you are hinging quite close to the scum side of things in my opinion. It would be great if you could give where you stand right now and your opinions on people. You missed most of the action and hung back quite a bit going into the end. Tell me what it is like from where you are standing?

I am not scum this time so no need to feel sad. Although I got a terrible role that is something we can all feel sad about.

I believe that we lost a lot of potential for data letting Jeanne talk. We should run ISO's for everyone and see who only engaged with her and did not put forth any opinion. It is both easy to engage only with Jeanne because she provides instant feedback and is quite loud. However, this means that people go away with not doing much or saying much. The trick this phase I think is that we are going to have to go around her in order to get people to talk about other things. Otherwise, we will give the mafia excellent cover again.

Elbirn is someone I knew was part of Titus's little plan. I saw that when I was invited to talk with Jeanne. He was clued in on the plan. Therefore, much of his early posting is bias and plays right into the hand that Titus dealt for him. I think it would not be unreasonable to poke him a little then just to check the alliance, otherwise, we risk getting surprised. However, at the moment I have a slight town read on him.

I think I will ISO fire, we have not heard much from them really, and I feel like I have no particular stance on them.

[Suzune]

i was wrong about lq/titus.

i still feel like ranger is scum.

is there something specific you want me to comment on

I would suggest an all encompassing post. I would like to hear about where you stand, what your reads are, the status of the game. All of it.

[Suzune]

i'll see what i can do

Thanks a bunch. I want to breath as much life from as many people into this topic before Jeanne returns so that I have plenty a data to study and so I can judge how people are handling the game phase.

[Suzune]

No comments for me Suzune?

When did I become town leader? Okay, okay, I'm sorry but I do not trust you yet. I mean if you could flesh out what gives you a light scum read on Kling perhaps we can exchange Kling notes. That will give us more information on him. I'm all for exchanging and sharing information.

[Suzune]

titus kill may mean inexperienced scum

I am more inclined to believe that they realised he was the anchor for Jeanne and that they hoped that it would ruin the town's chances of succeeding if they removed what stabalized her. They also removed someone known for their late game strategies. Now, this is what I have heard of Titus, however I have not had the opportunity to see it before.

There is higher potential in the mafia understands the town will struggle without information and that they intend to keep us from receiving as much help as possible.

[Suzune]

This is something that I do not understand about people. I asked a question and you provided an answer. I read the answer and filed the information away for later. People should be more specific about what they want. I mean, honestly my gut opinion was that your reads were a sheep of what everyone else has been saying because I find it unlikely that everyone has nearly the same reads. I have never played in a game where people all feel the same way about certain people. Therefore, I am interested in the reasons for your reads, but I hoped to ask you at a more optimal window. However, since you decided to press for an answer right now, I will just ask. I want to now the reason that you find people scummy. Even if the read is gut based on x. I am interested to know what you are thinking.

[Suzune]

Rephrased: If you had no intention of following up on your question why ask it in the first place?

I apologise that I did not preform the way you expected. You did what I asked and I read the results. I guess, I saw no further need to comment at that time. Time would play out and I hoped to see the flowers of the seeds I planted by observing your interaction between people based on your reads.

[Suzune]

Then everyone disappeared....that's interesting.

[Suzune]

Kling tends to have slow reads. However, before I have noticed when he is under fire or he feels like he is in a good position his demeanor changes. So I think if nothing else it is worth putting pressure on him in order to see what that yields.

For me, I often find it odd when people, without badgering comment on their own towniness. post 273. It makes me think the post is trying to lead you into thinking in one mindset. Quotes like post 426 initially made me think that he was looking at the same thing I was because he noticed that LQ was off his usual game. Therefore, this drew my attention to him as a player. post 436 is an interesting time to agree. Kling and I were mafia in the game where we had the code, therefore, I find it odd to comment on it after I commented on it since it was certainly going one well before my comment. It was actually the weird fruit choices which tipped me off to it being a code rather then something else.

This post interests me too. Remember that previously he mentioned that he agreed it was a code then lists off these possibilities later on.

I'm trying to figure out what's up between you two. And I listed 4 choices, not 1. Masons, Neighbors, Lovers, Scumbuddies.

Typically speaking lovers do not communicate outside the game therefore, it is an unrealistic choice. Masons can only talk at night, so unless a code was made pregame there would be no reason for them to do it in the topic, especially since masons do not really want to get outed as masons generally speaking. Neighbors makes the most sense, and we do not know whether the scum have day talk. However, I think the list is kind of odd.

I commented on post 813 after it was made. So I leave my opinions on that one. Personally I think he is worth keeping an eye on.

VOTE: Kling

[Suzune]

Any particular reason other then his boast to vote him?

[Suzune]

Got to love autocorrect doing a worse job than myself.
Suzune who are your scum reads?

i have just been called into work, I will be home in a few hours. You can read my reads in my Opening posts from today as well as my case against Kling. Hate to make you do the work but I simply do not have time right now.

[Suzune]

Got to love autocorrect doing a worse job than myself.
Suzune who are your scum reads?

Suzune, you, me and RR town bloc?
You can trust my word that he's town, and I'd Jeanne could let me in so I don't have to dump shenanigans in public she'll understand too. And I've got strong evidence and a shot tonne of crumbs to back it up.
Jeanne if she let's me in can be an honoury member of the bloc, the one we trust least but would still be surprised to see flip town as there are a lot of strong associative tells pointing to her being town which I'm picking up in my.

yes, I can agree to the town bloc

[Suzune]

I motion to have Kling added below blackest Magic and above Pistachio

[Suzune]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Blackest Magic

[Suzune]

If you had asked me to take a bet on who it would be, I would have been wrong...

[Suzune]

Well my gut feeling was going to be RR. Or one of the others that claimed Masons in post 652.

This leaves me with mixed feelings. The first being that they were scum and used that as a claim to hide behind. Or the second is that they are town and the mafia hoped to manipulate us into thinking that they were scum.

[Suzune]

Well I am usually against role claims, but if we can get mine out in the open, it could be used more effectively.

I'm Rahal and I have the weirdest assortment of abilities I have ever seen.
I have a one shot skill to redirect actions from another player to me. Which I wa just going to use to suicide however, maybe I do not need to anymore,

My second ability is one shot aesthetic. When I choose to activate this ability I will be aesthetic for two nights.

I have not used either of my abilities yet. Day one and two are not ideal for the aesthetic because there are more people and cop roles are important early game. Late game I figured was better so that the mafia could not work against me.

I want to comment on a few others but I am on my tablet so that will be slow.

[Suzune]

Okay.

@wguerts: the role us not bastard then, based on when my alignment actually changes, but effectively in lylo I am a survivor.

that would be an alignment change and would negitively effect the town because it would change the lylo number. Why would you out it? That sounds like a stupid question, but if winning is your goal then you win by helping the town not raising us to be suspicious of you.

[Suzune]

Brantz role does seem odd, though this is a Varsoon game, and it seems like a very strange thing for scum to fakeclaim. Hard to believe that the final remaining scum would be putting theyself on the chopping block like that.

Also, we know that flip flavor is not supposed to reveal anything game-wise, but did any1 else get paranoid thoughts over that last bit of flavor or just us?

The Allied Unification Army's advance was powerful and decisive, but there were those who thought that it was too simple. Strategists poured over the details of the conflict, but by the time they realized the flaw in their plans it was too late. The remaining members of the Epoch Resistance had hid among the corpses until they could strike at the heart of the Allied Unification Army.

Soldiers returned to a grizzly slaughter at their headquarters. Yet another strategist had been slain. It was as if the Epoch Resistance did not mind the losses they had incurred; as if it was all a plan to bereave the Allied Unification Army of their greatest thinkers.

~Yukari

Okay, I was pondering this while driving today. I think you are right fire. I assume the game is balanced. Therefore look at my role. Why would I need to be aesthetic if the was not something big that the mafia had to be aesthetic from. Some power is lurking...

[Suzune]

Guys, Ascetic on its own especially a activated two night ability isn't town. Suzune does your role block kills as well?
You role is designed that one night you can Ascetic yourself and the next you can redirect someone to you thus blocking them, that's pretty scummy suzune. Elibern, do you mind accounting suzune tonight to see if she is really? [/b]

Trust me I would not make that nonesense up. It's true do not get me wrong that aestetic is usually a anti town ability. I had it when I played the serial killer in another game. Still it is what I was drawn. I thought it looked like a please sacrifice yourself for the town kind of role. Typically speaking ascetic does not block killin abilities, therefore I would not assume it could.

Well I'm glad you think it is scummy, personally I thought it was kind of worthless. I assumed if I could redirect the kill then I would take the death for the town. If used correctly I would die.

[Suzune]

Well I will bite because this seems like a waste to me. What is it you expect me to do wgeurts, use my power or not. If we waste Elbirn by visiting me that tell the mafia so much. First if you want to confirm my ability that means I cannot use it. Which tells the mafia that I am an open target. If I use my ability it will make me look scummy. So what is the goal here make Suzune a target for tonight and hope she dies? If you spin this against me I will rally for your lynxh. I have worked to hard in this game for you to topple it.

[Suzune]

Suzune, you claimed both abilities are 1-shot so I want Elibern to confirm that.
A self-redirector could be a scum role especially as we have no cops

they are one shot but the aestetic works for two nights so that if could activate and redirect. What does it prove to you if he targets me just that I am indeed aestetic? I just do not want to waste man power on things that would take many nights to prove.

[Suzune]

The You make me a target. The scum now know what I do. So if they have something cooking you have broadcasted that I will be open tonight.

[Suzune]

Yeah, and honestly if you get killed it will do the town good as you're one of the town reads I have a nagging feeling is wrong.

If it makes you happy.

[Suzune]

If we figure out who might die, I could pick up the kill too.

[Suzune]

Yeah, and honestly if you get killed it will do the town good

You know what is funny. I cannot get over the audacity of this comment. It irks me so much. I'm trying not to roll my feelings into a "you must be scum" mindset. However, it if we are unsuccessful today, I might push the lynch on him biasly. If I do, someone flag me that is what I am doing.

[Suzune]

No, don't Ascetic tonight. Let Elibern check to see if you really do have 2 1-shot abilities, if you speak the truth then this will confirm it.
Anyway, BRantz you're confusing me, please explain your role again.

If I check her and one ability has been used,it'll still show she has the ability. It'll read as like, suzune has two abilities, the first has 0 shots left, the second has 1 shot left.

Are you sure on the timing of your result? Does it take into account the events which occurred during the night? Also, ascetic means it won't work period.

-Cerb

Only if I activate it. If I choose not to activate then, he will get through.

[Suzune]

Well assuming the alignment was made after the roles were made, even then the ascetic was meant as a scum role it would have drawn attention. therefore I feel like it has to have been a balance for someone's night ability.

[Suzune]

Well assuming the alignment was made after the roles were made, even then the ascetic was meant as a scum role it would have drawn attention. therefore I feel like it has to have been a balance for someone's night ability.

How many abilities in this game do you see which could be affected by ascetic?

All depends. If I a was mafia I feel like it would be beneficial because I would not use the redirect and the ascetic at the same time. I was an ascetic serial killer and cop, yes those two things go together, and it never worked out poorly for me. So I imagine it would be more useful to a mafia agent, and they probably would not have messaged the host to ask if they were serious about the role.

[Suzune]

Vote count please mod?

[Suzune]

All of them, except killing roles. That is how ascetic works.

[Suzune]

Oh, I misunderstand. I have never been ascetic with a game having day abilities. I am uncertain how it works. I assume since the roleblock does not work until evening that it might still work on that. However, I am uncertain. depends on how actions stack.

[Suzune]

What are you trying to get at? Regardless of whether it has more use as a scum role or a town role. It remains a town role in This game.

[Suzune]

Mid game alignment changes are bastard. My alignment change isn't mid game.

Correct me if I am wrong, but an random end game alignment change would also be bastard because it would change the dynamic of the final lynch should it get there.

[Suzune]

Okay I'll do it.

Intent to hammer BRantz

[Suzune]

Sorry I'm at work.

Yes I am going to hammer

RR, you want me to wait?

[Suzune]

Interesting that Kling unvoted...

[Suzune]

So what's the plan here? My gut says not to hammer pistashion

[Suzune]

Since Kling unvoted

VOTE: BRantz

This is L-1

[Suzune]

Okay, so I kept my end of the bargain and did not use my aestic power so that I could be read by Elbirn. So what were the results of your finding?

[Suzune]

What the fudge was up with the hasty lynch?
Me and RR had formed the conclusion pistachi0n wasn't scum. And the BRantz thing is dubious but is a matter for post game discussion.
Where's the other scum kill?
If Klingoncelt vigged we should have two kills, and Ranger roleblocked pistachi0n.

Suzune didn't use either of her 2 abilities... maybe she's Scum?

haha, that's a laugh. You know i could not have used the aestic one because then he would not have been able to read me. I did not use the redirect because I had no way of knowing who was going to die and thought it was better not to waste it. If you remember we had a great debate about using my powers before the day end.

[Suzune]

Fire it was announced it last page

[Suzune]

What are you confused about. Of course I did not. That would be silly because Elbrin was going to read me.

Suzune has two abilities, both of which have one shot each

Oh! I get it. He had no way of knowing whether or not I used my abilities.

[Suzune]

My claim is so bizarre I am not clever enough to make it up.

[Suzune]

I like your plan. I will type them up on my computer and be ready to share tomorrow because I have work soon. This keeps the scum from copying

[Suzune]

I'm bored someone tell me what I should be doing

we are all rereading the game in order to post new reads

[Suzune]

Sorry I have a guest in town my time online is limited.

[Suzune]

Back in a few hours

[Suzune]

Okay, just getting home. First year I was in the states for Thanksgiving and my coworkers were like come stay with us. So I am home. Post coming~

[Suzune]

Here is where I am standing right now.

Early game I spend a lot of time thinking that RR might be scum. However, his logical reasoning and play style began to warm up to me. Their behavior has all been hunting trying to understand people's motives and powers and working towards the effort of the game. I believe there is little doubt in my mind they are scum.

wgeurts I was very judgmental to in the early game. I thought they were probably scum but they were so far down on my priority list. However, if there is a sleeper scum I still think it might be him. His early game was vastly hard to read and he had some moments where I wondered both what he was thinking and how it was getting there. However, it is always not really taken stage because there was so reason to really push it at the time, there were always someone bigger being scummier. So I think if it fails to be kling this is where it should be. So this is my weakest town read.

FireKari I believe is rather townie. They seem to actively scum hunt and weigh possibilities. Otherwise, there is not much of worry here town~

Elbrin I might actually have to think about. Because of my irregular situation early game of being in on the plan with Titus, Jeanne and Elbrin. I have kind of glossed over him and made the assumption that Titus could indeed choose another townie. Therefore, I regret to say that I had not thought about it until I started posting this. Honestly, I assume that if I had noticed something really odd i would have said something but...I regret I had not really thought about it.

Kling- I like you as a player, but I swear you are always mafia. This is really who I am left with. Through process of elimination it honestly must be you. His unvote though right before the hammer yesterday was interesting to me because he ended up upvoting on the mafia member. While that could have been just bad luck it set pistashion as the one would could have been hammered killing the townie. Honestly, the majority of the day one posts since wgeurts first scum read on him have been reactionary. Therefore, I think this is the way to go.

[Suzune]

Because, I just made one for everyone.

[Suzune]

Are we waiting on the vote count?

[Suzune]

It is one of my personal annoyances, defense but not telling people where to look instead. I mean, if everyone is dead set on you, the best you can do is attempt to lead so that if the flip is wrong then the town knows where to look. However, you offer no opinion to the contrary therefore, what reason is there to not suspect you. If it is not you, then who is it. Defense of yourself is not enough.

[Suzune]

Yeah. Sorry guys. We have two scenarios in mind, both of which, if Suzune uses her redirection tomorrow night, give us a 50% chance of having both masons live until a 3 man LYLO, if she outguesses the scum...but we do need a question answered:

This is actually my intention, to try to out pace the scum and keep everyone alive going into the next day beside myself. I have the sacrifice yourself role afterall.

I think your opinion holds some weight. No one has really been reading Elbrin because, myself personally, have just been working on the assumption that Titus and Jeanne chose another townie. I admitted this in my reads list. So it is highly possible he has been flying under the radar.

[Suzune]

Sure Reasonable.

I have two one shot abilities.

The first is the ability to use Ascetic which keeps me from being hit my all skill that are not kills. This works for two night. The night I activate it and the following.
The second is a redirect ability that allows me to take all the actions another player would receive.

If you need the flavour I would have to go dig up the character name for you. Let me know.

[Suzune]

Let's put it this way, I do not make cases against me teammates. I would bus them but I would not have put as much effort into proving to LQ why they were scum if I was there teammate. Even though they did not read and continued to say that no one made any case on them. Which was annoying and I kept posting it over and not gettign any reaction. Apparently, my case was not good enough to move him.

At that point it's between suzune and ranger, suzune recently duped me as scum so idk if I'm so confident in my ability to read her.

Oh please, it was hardly a deception.

So here is an embarrassing story:

So, elbirn....how bad at being scum do you think kc has to be to make the unsupportable claim she made, if you'd be terrible if you did what Kari pointed out? And, how is ranger being first on both those wagons more suspicious if she did it than your RVS post+support of their lynch was?

I have totally done this before as scum. In order to buy more days out of the town and to hopefully get them to turn on each other. I claimed that there were still mafia alive even though I knew there were not and claimed that I would not kill that night to put the town into 1-1-1. When I knew there was no mafia. I backfired on me, so I can understand the value in claiming something that is unbackable and hoping the town will in fight. So it has nothing to do with being bad at scum, more of just trying to get everyone to in fight. More of a testement to what someone thinks of us rather then their playing skills. Therefore, Kling might be hanging on for hope that we don't lynch him,

[Suzune]

Then put a little faith in my guess. However, I agree we should have a plan laid out for tomorrow just in case.

[Suzune]

But how come titus was assassinated and Jeanne and pistachi0n were slain?

Was one of the roles an assassin, and the other a warrior or something. If the assassin died then someone else would have to take their place on the night kills.

[Suzune]

Any final words Klingoncelt?
~Yukari

How about "Don't lynch me, please, I'm not Scum."

Then who is?

[Suzune]

If he is town I am going to be so annoyed. He claimed innocence over and over but would not suggest who was mafia...

[Suzune]

This game went really well and everyone played great. It was a lot of fun. I would play this game. Thanks for the great game.

You know, I know that Kling is a girl but I always make that mistake...

[Suzune]

But Titus is always scum.

honestly I always assume that. I just assume you are never on my team.

[Suzune]

Drixx, i find it interesting that you think I sound motherly. In most of my recent games everyone says I am too stiff and cold that it puts them on edge. So I am interested in the fact that I got such a different read then usual.

[Suzune]

It seems like it would have hurt the town no matter how I used it. Therefore, I wonder if it was meant to mislead since there was no obvious roleblock that I would have to use it on and no scum had abilities I could block with it.

Imagine I would be unable to be invited ot the table or something because I used it...would that not get me instant lynched.

[Suzune]

LQ you are usually so obviously townie to me. So when I was reading your posts and not feeling the town vibe, I started to worry. First, I thought you were just off your game, but when nothing happened later to change it. I began to get suspicious. Personally, I like townie LQ better.

[Suzune]

I think it is a balance. Every time my I think my scum game is good, my town game suffers. If I think my town game is good, my scum game suffers. While there should be no difference between town and scum, there is. I'm sure you will master it LQ.

Right now I am on the side of a slightly better town game. I was able to sneak by everyone our last encounter in midnight sun, but I am not sure it was good scum playing that did it.

[Suzune]

I have a high opinion of you LQ. I like your game. Therefore, I plan achievement for it.