Open 623 (White Flag) - A Moment in Time (Over)

[Viva La Gloria]

Just finishing catching up.

I think AI has something here actually, I don't like either of the major wagons and I find Titus's play to have a ton of weird inconsistencies.

Are you townread her, Sircakez?

[Viva La Gloria]

@EE, Nope.

My gut will tell me how to read Firebringer.

Hey, you wanna play pin the tail on the scums Firebringer?

I lead this town Titus!
And I have to figure out if you are scum, you are at null right now.

Hug me. You have no teeth to bite me with.

Yeah SirCakes is town.

Hey, at least a lot of scum had to jump on SirCakes to save SS.

@EE, Nope.

My gut will tell me how to read Firebringer.

Hey, you wanna play pin the tail on the scums Firebringer?

i suspect scum in one of yonm/ss

i am starting to understand the ss scum perspective
could be a case of scum feeling upset about
being caught for the wrong reasons

otoh im not that concerned about it
c666 is dumb but not scummy
i retract my earlier doubts

ss and cake arent together though
and cake has doen a good enough job responding that for now
VOTE: unvote

im going to start hunting for a new target

This just pinged. Cerb dumb? Really? Why?

Lots of SS is scum, doesn't vote but looks for a new target.

@SS, I wan one from you.

@Titus: I'd put you or anyone else as town as soon as I'd feel confident about it. I haven't been feeling this way about you yet for the reason i already explained and I hope you can understand that. I don't fear you, you could very likely be town and I'd be glad if this was the case, but I'll make up my mind on you later when i have more confidence. I haven't heared anyone analyse your posts too much yet, so maybe the more experienced players could help me out here.

@SS: thanks for the reply. Ill post my thoughts on what you said in ca. 2 hrs because my classes start now.

Sent from my phone.

This is a particularly townie way to look at things. This tells me it is remote you're looking for hedges on all seasoned players and corrected misinterpretations I had regarding your posts. The reach out to others is genuine, but requests to the group are going to largely be ignored. You should flag down whoever you think us seasoned and have them give thoughts on me. It will serve as a compliment to them and give you insight into their play.

@All, I like to mother hen newbies. You see me doing that, smack me upside the head. K? Doubly so if it fucks with reads.

So this is Titus's posting in the last 200 pages.

Before this happened she essentially declared SS mod confirmed scum, along with a bunch of other people based on weird pre-flip associations, and now a large wagon to counter Ss has formed on Sircakez. Titus is not fighting or arguing with it much at all, which you'd expect to see if she thought SS was scum and Cakez a scum led counterwagon. Instead, she's been chatting with people, sorting other slots, and just generally flirting with Firebringer, one of the leaders of the Cakez counterwagon. I get the impression that both wagons are on town and that Titus doesn't actually particularly care which one goes through; I'd expect to see her far more invested in the wagon if she was as certain as she claimed of her reads.

Also, her gigantic preflip association thing?

Smart, Rz, and likely AI.

The hell is this? zero explanation? scum.

Not to mention all the IIOA of her early game and the fact that besides declaring random people scum she hasn't really done much scumhunting at all.

I like Cerb's line of questioning as well, and that's part of what led me down this trail.

I'll explain why I'm townreading both of the major wagons if I need to but this is pretty clearly scum.

[Viva La Gloria]

I also _REALLY_ hate Titus's interactions with Yonom.

She randomly scumreads her then townreads her again and says that she's doing some sort of mother hen thing because she's a newbie.

Really doesn't make much sense at all.

[Viva La Gloria]

Also, the people on the Cakes and SS wagons, mind explaining it to me?

Because I really don't see the cases on either and I'm pretty sure SS is town and leaning town on Cakez as well.

[Viva La Gloria]

@Viva La Gloria: Welcome back to this game!
My case on SS is mainly explained in #333.

VOTE: Titus

I don't like this way of voting. Not helpful.

Ok? So what? It's not helpful, what does it mean. What are your reads on Titus and AI?

No, it is not. That is strategically replacing out. It is not acceptable. Not saying people don't do it, I don't know if anyone has but I do know it's against the rules and ban worthy.

This is a useless conversation that does nothing to find scum though.

It's pretty much impossible to detect, anyone could get away with it. Agreed that this doesn't help us find scum.

Why do you think my predecessor is more likely to have flaked out as scum than town?
Like, why are we even having this conversation? That's maximum pointless doubt casting.

[Viva La Gloria]

I really started thinking it's odd after he switched his vote again to AI again, not mentioning why he moved away from SirCakez. That seemed like he was trying way too hard to successfully lynch someone. He was basically using every chance he got to switch his vote.

How is he trying way too hard to lynch someone by peeling off the most successful counterwagon?

That doesn't make sense.

Now he has already been called out for this by others and he was able to provide some good explanations. But it's not that hard to come up with a good explanation for any situation. It seems weird that SS always has to go back and explain his actions. Every time he adds a few new details to his excuses, which makes me think he is making up a lot of these things. Example:

You call him out to explain his actions and he does.

Wouldn't you think that scum trying to make a false throught process would have a more static version of their past actions than town who had a more fluid thought process that they didn't necessarily get across the first time exactly as they meant it?

Thats a lot of new details that he hadn't described before. Yes it makes sense that he thought someone else was scummier, but did he totally forget that he had voted for someone else before? Didn't it seem odd to him to switch his vote without any hint on the previous vote? I personally feel like I'd need to justify the change. It seems like he was too busy focusing on the new person to notice this though, lol. Which makes me question if he actually compared the person he was voting with the older suspects. Which makes me wonder how much thought he puts into his votes and if he knows the implications of a mislynch.

Like, so what?

Why can't he switch from a less likely scumspect to a more likely scumspect? Do you disagree with the authenticity of his explanation for the read change? If so, why?

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus has Fire not changed your read on the slot at all?
I don't want to wagon Titus or EE today.

Did you read any of my last posts?

[Viva La Gloria]

Going to reread Sircakez because his objection to her wagon, the counterwagon argument, and the fact that maybe she doesn't want to stick her neck out too hard defending a buddy suggests they might be scumpartners. I was townreading the slot on first read though.

[Viva La Gloria]

Townreading Titus in and of itself is not scummy.

You have given no explanation of why you're townreading her and her behaviour around your wagon has been odd to say the least.

I thought she was WKing you but I may have been wrong.

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus and SirCakez both voted SS in RVS and have kept their votes there the entire game.

That strikes me as somewhat odd.

Because I like her reads and she's not doing anything scummy?

How is her flagrant lack of scumhunting, inconsistent positions, and weird 180 from scumreading to white knighting / soft defending of the Yonom slot not scummy?

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus, how have your reads changed since like page 2 when you thought you had 2 scum caught? Then later, you listed 3 as scum. Do you feel the same about those slots (please remind me which ones they were, I can't check your iso right now).

Yup.

SS rhazah ai

Reads haven't changes. Probably should have just sat and lurk derped instead.

Cakes wagon was shit and I see that the same people are trying to come after me.

*shrug* I am through trying to fix dumb. Either you go questions or you don't.

OK then.

1) Explain why you consider SS confirmed scum.
2) Explain why you consider Rhaz confirmed scum with him.
3) Explain the full progression of your Yonom read.
4) SS flips town. Then what?

I also _REALLY_ hate Titus's interactions with Yonom.

She randomly scumreads her then townreads her again and says that she's doing some sort of mother hen thing because she's a newbie.

Really doesn't make much sense at all.

That's because you're struggling with comprehension of my posts. Yonom did something kinda anti-town. Scumhunted it. I concluded I was right.

Walk us through that because I see no reasons to see anything besides a scum 180 from your Yonom push.

Right in Yonom being town.

Lynch SS and Rh and the game is over.

So we lynch SS and he flips town, then what?

Why are we lynching SS and why are we lynching RH?

I never scumread Yonom. I was suspicious of the slot and sorted it.

Scum caught in RVS don't become town because it would appease people.

I have hunted. I have two scum. White flag needs two scum lynched. The counter on obvtown cakes was just icing.

You can stall victory or get on board.

How do you expect me to distinguish whether you're flagrantly declaring people scum for mislynches or legitimately scumhunting?

SS is pretty damn town and if you're as good as you're claiming to be then I'd be able to lynch you for being wrong. Burden of proficiency and all that?

And even if he is scum why should I not see this as a bus?

Your position doesn't make sense whatsoever.

What would everyone's opinions be of an EE wagon? I'd prefer that to SirCakez, because I have given my reasons for voting SirCakez but this is starting to feel more and more like a mislynch. I'm trying not to tunnel too badly here.

Distancing from reads.

Wait, so he's trying to find someone to lynch BESIDES his counterwagon and you call it distancing from reads?

That's so incredibly dishonest.

I want to see SS's role.

Yeah, don't take any responsibility for your reads.

SS is clearly a scum led wagon; that much should be obvious.

[Viva La Gloria]

Oh, The Cow is in this game.

I wouldn't mind policy lynching him as well.

Only two lynches I'll consider today; I still don't think Cakez is scum.

[Viva La Gloria]

Oh, The Cow is in this game.

I wouldn't mind policy lynching him as well.

Only two lynches I'll consider today; I still don't think Cakez is scum.

Hmmph.

You object to me only wanting two lynches.

You want only two lynches yourself.

No, I object to the fact that you're tunneling on absolutely nothing and I don't believe that it's a genuine thought process.

If you're town derptunneling, then you'd at least be able to explain your read.

Nope. Town can be wrong. You're acting out of fear regarding someone you're simultaneously doubtcasting. Booooo.

No one in this game is scared of you.

[Viva La Gloria]

We are flipping SS because he's scum. The reasons are in my small ISO. Rvs shiftiness, vote telegraphing, and weaseling from his reads.
Rh has shitty rvs tell and the slot has done fuck all to change my mind.

Weaseling from his reads, what? His reads have clearly been uncertain the whole game and switching votes is completely to be expected under such circumstances.
Further, his RVS play is nearly as bad as you're pinning it as.
And vote telegraphing, what? What's the difference between the two forms? And isn't the towny thing to do, you know, ACTUALLY GET THE PERSON YOU WANT LYNCHED LYNCHED?

Asking me the same question does not generate a new response. He was suspicious. I sorted him and determined he was town.
SS is flipping scum.

OK so we autolynch you when he flips town? Are you going to take that deal?

If a counterwagon will have no takers, SS must try to start a new one. Distancing from reads is more of "I don't think this guy is scum but...Le vote." SS is saying Cakes has scummy things, but he's town yet he DOESN'T want to move his vote. SS is begging for a more viable counter.

And this is a reason to scumread him why? Town don't want to get lynched either.

[Viva La Gloria]

I'm liking neither Viva nor titus right now. They're both maneuvering into weird positions that make me uncomfortable.

Awesome.

Vote her with me then.

You can worry about a bus later!

[Viva La Gloria]

I'm liking neither Viva nor titus right now. They're both maneuvering into weird positions that make me uncomfortable.

I haven't manuevered at all. My reads are pretty static.

Lynch SS.

Yeah your reads are pretty static for someone who's supposed to be analyzing what's going on.
Titus, before you die, can you at least read 224 instead of brushing it off with "nice wall"?

Before you die?
Are you expecting her to get night killed or lynched?
If you want her lynched, then vote her with me.
Why would she get night killed when she's tunneling her butt on town?

The fact Cow still hasn't placed a vote irritates me.
Pretty sure Viva vs Titus is T v T honestly.

The fact that you just casually called something TvT irritates me :^)

I want to see SS flip to put Titus' push into perspective. I don't like how Titus is presenting his arguments. I feel like Viva is trying to shoe horn a Titus lynch -- in a way more subtle than the "lets vote titus" sorta way.

I'm liking neither Viva nor titus right now. They're both maneuvering into weird positions that make me uncomfortable.

I haven't manuevered at all. My reads are pretty static.

Lynch SS.

"Maneuver" as an abstract. This word play. Does maneuver have a connotation that I'm not aware of?

Pretty much.

I'm liking neither Viva nor titus right now. They're both maneuvering into weird positions that make me uncomfortable.

I haven't manuevered at all. My reads are pretty static.

Lynch SS.

Random Yonom 180 ringing a bell?
What about the fact that you've been on the same person the entire game with little explained reasoning and are randomly preflip calling someone else scumpartner?
This is absolute tripe and bollocks. Your main push target has remained static but your push is very scummy.

I'm liking neither Viva nor titus right now. They're both maneuvering into weird positions that make me uncomfortable.

Awesome.

Vote her with me then.

You can worry about a bus later!

This is the towniest thing you've said, and it's still dumb.

Oh please.

The fact Cow still hasn't placed a vote irritates me.
Pretty sure Viva vs Titus is T v T honestly.

You can't just say this shit without giving reasons.

You still have yet to explain your Titus townread AT ALL and if you continue to defend her without doing so I will be incredibly suspicious of you later.

[Viva La Gloria]

You're townreading her in spite of her incredibly disingenuous push on you?

[Viva La Gloria]

I honestly just don't understand these Titus townreads.

SS, Cakez, someone who isn't her, can you walk me through why you think that she's town?

I replace in and it feels like she's just obvscum and I don't understand what either I or you just isn't seeing.

[Viva La Gloria]

How can I distinguish that from "I'm her scumbuddy and I don't want her getting lynched!"

Talk with me please.

[Viva La Gloria]

I was townreading her in the beginning. Now she's kind of at null-leaning-town-unclear.

Can you read my posts and talk with me about it?

I really don't see it.

[Viva La Gloria]

At the very least, does her 180 on Yonom not feel incredibly fake and forced?

I'm not sure if it's white knighting or poorly crafted intercourse between scumpartners but it's just so fake to me.

Can you look over that?

I don't see why she's obvscum. Townies tunnel all the time.

Yeah that's one thing but doesn't the fact that she's been literally on you from the beginning of the game, plus the fact that she declared you confirmed scum and started chatting with Firebringer instead of fighting his Sircakez wagon raise any alarm bells?

[Viva La Gloria]

Yeah, it was a pi.

Jeez.

[Viva La Gloria]

I don't have a firm grasp on Titus this game. Not even a weak graap, honestly. I've played with her enough to expect to have some sort of lean one way or the other generally, but I don't this game. Her behavior differs from all my previous games with her, I think, in that she's been quite passive after that initial declaration regarding her suspicion of SS etc, but passivity is not in line with my experiences with her as either alignment. This is the second time I've seen her with a vanilla role (I generally only play theme/role madness games) though, and the other time she was hydraing with a hyperactive poster, so it's possible this is just what she does when she can't do any further scheming or planning for her play early game. She's tunneling, which is normal for her, and that's about all I can say for certain.

Basically, this is me doing this:¯\_(ツ)_/¯ with regards to her for the time being. Titus is, imo, almost always a terrible early game lynch, so I'm opposed to lynching her in general without a good reason (which viva has failed to provide), but she's not someone I'd defend based on her play..

I utterly don't understand your reasoning.

Why exactly is Titus a 'bad early game lynch' when she's scumming up the thread and pushing lynches on town?

Why shouldn't we lynch scum, whether it's Titus or someone else?

I can walk people through my town read of Titus and cakes Tonight for doubters.

@viva I only skimmed to this point and I thought you seemed townie from wwhat I skimmed, but your reads/logic is off. just like Titus' (and maybe mine)

But ill discuss more in a bit when I have more time.

wtf?

Why are you agreeing that your read and logic is off when you two are still pushing the same awful wagon?

Why did you put yourself in the arena with Titus? I'm not pushing on you.

Why is everyone WKing Titus? Someone tell me why she's town please.

Everyone who has actually looked back over her ISO has seen what I'm seeing. Let's get this going please.

[Viva La Gloria]

Viva: because I know for a fact she's both lynch bait at times AND very strong late game. Oh and I'm confident she'll be able to be read with more certainty later in the game. You're right that if she's scum we should lynch her, but I don't see anything particularly scummy in her play. The Yonom thing is rhe closest to being scummy, amd Yonom said stuff in the middle which could have very easily changed her mind on them.

Also, you're misunderstanding whoever it was you quoted in that shitty context removed quote. He said YOUR reads are off, and so are Titus', but maybe his are too.

To be perfectly clear here: I lynch people because they're being scummy, and their actions have scum motivations, NOT because they're not being "town" enough for me. Not obvtown!=scum. Especially on D1. Later on we can PoE things and use some logic, but right now? Nope. Not good enough.

Then why the hell is she refusing to explain her reads.
I voted her to get her to explain her shit. She did not explain her shit besides saying 'oh check my ISO' where I still find her shit utterly unexplained.
She does not get to play the "OH IM LYNCHBAIT" card and you shouldn't be playing it for her when she's utterly unable to substantiate her positions.
Why are you making excuses for her? Why is everyone making excuses for her?
Why isn't she asking questions about people making excuses for her.
She is clearly not making effort to scumhunt, her positions are clearly inauthentic. You were FoSing her and picking at her reads and all of a sudden you're townreading her?
Why?

[Viva La Gloria]

Like, this is absolutely absurd and I don't understand what's going on.
This goes beyond people townreading her. People are expressing a variety of reads from null to scum and still making excuses and refusing to vote her.
Don't you think that if she was town at least one of those people would be like "hey we can lynch this and pin it on the replacement!"

Vote her and make her talk. I'm not saying she's 100% confirmed scum but don't enable her refusing to answer questions and deathtunnel random people play.

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus, see all the people declaring SS some variation of confirmed scum and then lining up mislynches to follow him?
See all the people soft defending you and preventing me from pushing on you while leaving you open as a later lynch?

Are you seriously saying that's not bothering you and making you reconsider at all?

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus, see all the people declaring SS some variation of confirmed scum and then lining up mislynches to follow him?
See all the people soft defending you and preventing me from pushing on you while leaving you open as a later lynch?

Are you seriously saying that's not bothering you and making you reconsider at all?

SS is confirmed scum, so it doesn't bother me. The defense isn't soft and I'm town.

If people think they can mislynch me while claiming the wagon is right, they got another thing coming.

Notice that Titus continually refuses to engage me in any real way and just redirects focus back onto SS.
You're like talking to a brick wall here. When he flips town why should I believe that you were wrong as opposed to scum?
Like fuck even if he does flip scum why should I believe that you weren't bussing him? Why should I want to follow you onto Rhaz?

Please stop enabling this play. Run her up and make her talk.

[Viva La Gloria]

No one's engaging with me, everyone's putting me in a box labelled town and ignoring what I say.
No one has even asked me to explain my SS townread for crying out loud.
If everyone's so damn sure SS is town why am I not getting called out for a chainsaw vote on an unexplained townread on a leading wagon?

I asked people to explain Titus townreads. nothing.

[Viva La Gloria]

My vote's on Titus, not SirCakez.

Catching up now.

I don't see any vote or unvote by you since you replaced in. The vote from your slot is from your predecessor. ~Drixx

[Viva La Gloria]

Hi. Reads are still the same. Bye.

Bad Titus.

[Viva La Gloria]

Pistachi0n, why the hell are you jumping on the biggest wagon instead of voting something that could flip scum, aka Titus?

You're agreeing that she's probably scum and voting her wagon? The hell?

[Viva La Gloria]

VOTE: SomethingSmart

I think we'll get information from this lynch. If SS flips town, I'm going to be looking at Titus for scum tomorrow. If SS flips scum, I'm going to pursue AI.

The SS wagon is terrible.

Vote 1: SirCakez, who's been scumreading SS since the joke post 21. Also, I'm still scumreading Cakez, so I'm biased because of that.

Vote 2: Titus, also scumreading SS since the beginning, claiming he was caught scum early on. Same thing with the 21. I don't agree with her reasoning for why SS was scum--it was the infamous post 21, and "telegraphing," but didn't give thorough reasons besides those weak ones.

Vote 3: PhantomCobalt, because of "useless theory fluff." Didn't give an example of what the useless theory fluff was, didn't push beyond that.

Vote 4: Yonom, because SS was jumping to conclusions too fast and too randomly. I don't think this was as bad as the other votes, but I disagree with it. I think it's an issue of playstyle--we have people like Cerb who are stingy with their votes and don't use unless almost certain, and we have players like SS who move the vote around to indicate who their current top scumread is.

Vote 5: Extrapolated Eagle, who voted SS after he stopped scumreading Cakez. The vote seems largely arbitrary, EE is scumreading SS for a lot of the same reasons he's townreading AI. SS doesn't seem like someone trying to blend in.

Top scum-reads are Cakez, AI, and Titus.

from these.

[Viva La Gloria]

I have tried my best to give her the benefit of the doubt actually; she has refused to engage with me.
There's a few people who have looked like they might be attempting to set Titus up as a tomorrow lynch post SS, but I'm still in AI's camp.
This complete stonewalling is not town motivated whatsoever and if she's town we should run her up today, not tomorrow, while she can still be brought to trial for her SS read.

[Viva La Gloria]

Oh, I'm in complete and utter agreement with you.
Like I said, we should run up Titus and make her explain her reads better.
She can't then we lynch her, she can, we can look into other lynches.

[Viva La Gloria]

I'm not trying to buddy you whatsoever.

I'm trying to lynch Titus. You are helping me lynch Titus.

We are partners of circumstance, my friend.

[Viva La Gloria]

10 of us are similarly aligned but I wouldn't consider myself 'partners of circumstance' with anyone else because we aren't working to the same aims.
I think that you're town. I'll do my best to help you see that I'm town as well.
Plus, it's a quote from a movie anyway, that I thought fit the situation.

Also, Viva La Gloria, why are you not voting Titus if you think we are "partners of circumstance"? You do not seem to be that dedicated to your goal.

I'm pretty sure I did?

[Viva La Gloria]

Oh honestly I thought the first thing I did when I joined this game was to vote her. I've thought my vote was on her this whole game.

VOTE: Titus

My error.

[Viva La Gloria]

Why is everybody ignoring me? How does this logic not apply even better for EE?

Because, well, I get bad feelings about Titus's calculated refusal to engage whereas EE feels less scummy and more confbiasing townie.
At the very least, vote her with us to make her engage?

[Viva La Gloria]

How dare you steal my thunder.

VOTE: Titus

I'm not letting her get away with that cheeky 'SS is 100% confscum sheep me' crap when I and others made every effort to make her explain and support her reads and positions and she refused.
I've considered the fact that she was set up by scum, namedly Pistachi0n and EE, but I think Occam's razor suggests that she's the scum here.
That theory doesn't explain why she was so insistent on lynching SS and refusing to explain or elaborate on any of her other reads either.
Her associatives with Yonom were bizarre and she also had an awful vote on the SS wagon so I wouldn't mind lynching that either.
I was expecting to be night killed or I would have written something up. I'll fill in the rest of my work later.

[Viva La Gloria]

VOTE: TheCow
I like this vote better.

You know you've spent the entire game making excuses for Titus without ever explaining why you townread her.
Now you're trying to create a counterwagon.
You're next bucko.

[Viva La Gloria]

You're probably scum when Titus flips town. I've given my reasons for townreading Titus and you're ignoring them to further your own goals.

Quote them.
Find me these reasons to townread Titus.
I haven't seen anything from you.

[Viva La Gloria]

Fuck this. I am still not satisfied with Titus' answers, but TheCow seems to want to get lynched really bad.

VOTE: TheCow

NO.

We're lynching Titus day. No distractions.

[Viva La Gloria]

I don't like TheCow wagon, no.
I'm not following another Titus-led wagon, I'm going to lynch her and hit scum.
AI, remember what happened last time you sheeped a scum wagon? Don't do it again, thanks.

[Viva La Gloria]

You're probably scum when Titus flips town. I've given my reasons for townreading Titus and you're ignoring them to further your own goals.

Please convince me that Titus is town.

-Confident in reads and not jumping between people whenever pressure moves to them
-The Yonom associative "issue" was explained by her and was not scummy like Viva is pushing it to be.
-Did give a defense unlike how Viva is claiming. 574 for example.
-Actually has good reads.

How is deathtunneling someone towny? It's at best null, and her refusal to even consider other possibilities is anti-town at best. And she didn't nearly explain any scumread that would warrant an insane, ludicrous deathtunnel of the stature that we saw yesterday. It's disgusting.

No, she did not explain it. She just said 'OH HEY NEWBIE YOU MIGHT BE SCUM NVM SAW UNSPECIFIED TELL YOU TOWN NOW' and never followed up.

Her defense was a joke.

Her reads are good as town presumably? Okay, then burden of proficiency her because she just strongarmed a lynch onto pretty clear town.

[Viva La Gloria]

Hey Viva
What if Titus is town?
More votes on Cow please

If Titus is town then we'd lynch someone like Pistachi0n who may have been setting up for her lynch the next day or Sircakez who is white knighting the crap out of her without giving any decent explanation. I am not touching Cow with a 50 foot pole and your brazen pushing of a counterwagon is disgusting.

Are we really letting scum get away with this? Titus/Sircakez/Yonom scum team I called it day 2. Sircakez with the hard defense and hope he doesn't get called out for it + Titus to push his counterwagon and chain a bunch of mislynches + Yonom to do nothing but get declared town by Titus.

So TheCow's behavior does not bother you at all? The way he quickhammered?

You do realize that I was suspicious of your predecessor, right?

I don't care about my predecessor. I'm town, I'm pretty goddamn sure that you're town.
You had it right the first time, I need your vote on Titus today.

And right now, ironically enough Viva is deathtunneling Titus.

I did my best to open a dialogue with her.
Nice job spinning me as scummy and chainsawing your buddy though.

The counter-wagon was SirCakez.

The wagon dissolved around 700. Day one was about 800 posts long.

If you're town you need to vote Titus and you need to vote her now.

TITUS/SIRCAKEZ/YONOM

WE LYNCH IN THEM TODAY.

[Viva La Gloria]

TITUS/SIRCAKEZ/YONOM

TITUS/SIRCAKEZ/YONOM

TITUS/SIRCAKEZ/YONOM

TITUS/SIRCAKEZ/YONOM

TITUS/SIRCAKEZ/YONOM

[Viva La Gloria]

Scum needs to be quiet so town can talk.

Entire D2 monopolized by Titus and Cakez pushing their ass wagon on SS.

We are lynching scum today, not anti-town lynchbait like Cow. Vote Titus.

[Viva La Gloria]

This is scum Cow, I've seen it several times offsite. Fake scumhunting, extremely disinterested in the game, loads of shitposts, prodging frequently.

I've seen the player do the exact same in several games as both alignments.
You're cherry picking aspects of play to suit your own mislynch needs.

Be silent. Keep your forked tongue behind your teeth.
I did not pass through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a witless worm.

This is scum Cow, I've seen it several times offsite. Fake scumhunting, extremely disinterested in the game, loads of shitposts, prodging frequently.

This makes sense. I had a similar feeling about him.

No. Bad. Stay focused.
We want Titus. Cow is town, or if he's scum he's scum with Titus and can wait.

[Viva La Gloria]

I literally just watched two games finish with scum Cow. I know his play.

I can say for a 100% fact that you're playing exactly like your scum meta.
Aren't unsubstantiated statements fun, just like the ones you made about Titus? Just like the ones Titus made about SS?

I'm pretty sure on-site meta is more applicable :^)

uh sure.

I understand your focus on Titus, but I don't understand why you let TheCow off the hook.

You've seen TheCow's play. He will get lynched at some point. We do not need to be personally involved in his lynch.
We need to lynch Titus, today, immediately, because it otherwise

will not happen

because half the town is in love with her and her scumbuddies are hard defending her.

[Viva La Gloria]

He's scum for being flakey?
That's in every game he plays. Like literally I could not find a game where he wasn't a lurksack.
He's scum for the quickhammer?
See mini 1744. Quickhammered a town cop before they could claim apparently.

And this isn't about him at all, because I'm not sure if he's scum or not. This is about lynching you and Titus and winning.

Viva. Calm down. You're thread spamming and dominating the thread. It's anti town. Back off, Titus is a horrible lynch.

Thecow and fb are good lynches today

No. We are lynching Titus today because she is obviously scum. Cow and Firebringer aren't even in my lynch pool.
If I was to not lynch Titus I'd lynch Yonom/Sircakez/yourself.
Scumhunt off that awful SS wagon.

[Viva La Gloria]

No he's scum because this is his exact scum game I've witnessed multiple times. The fact he hasn't flaked out of this game yet is already abnormal.

OK so if he flips town what then? we sheep Titus on another town lynch and another and then we lose?
You're either scum or incredibly, incredibly blind.

[Viva La Gloria]

If he's town I jump off a cliff.

No, you're scum and then you start pushing another wagon that ISN'T titus and ISN'T yonom and I get NKed so I can't push you.
We are not lynching Cow. We have our lynchpool. vote in it.

[Viva La Gloria]

No, I don't care for your cherry picked meta.
I am not allowing a Cow lynch, simple as that. We are lynching scum today.

Viva's reads are hilariously wrong.

I think I have officially run into myself. I am just going to laugh.

We are NOTHING alike.
I have fully explained my reads.
You just throw out OH SS SCUM FOR REASONS OH YONOM TOWN FOR REASONS and then just expect town to lap it up.
You are gone today. bye.

[Viva La Gloria]

Viva your scum list is literally anyone who disagrees with you. Is this intentional? Because right now it just looks like you want to lynch anyone who makes you mad instead of just playing the game and tbh it's pissing me off. If you can't learn to at least examine your reads and think about stuff once in a while you shouldn't play, IMO.

YOU VOTED SS.
I CALLED SS TOWN.
My reads are CONSIDERABLY more examined than yours and there is a REASON that I am pushing Titus, and that is because she is scum.
Don't you dare criticize my reads when you were on a mislynch that I called as town within minutes of replacing in.

[Viva La Gloria]

Or you're just scum who already knew SS was town and knew he was going to be lynched so tried to take advantage.

called the scumteam so now they want to try to discredit me.
we are lynching these clowns today.

[Viva La Gloria]

Congrats, you were right about something once. I'm sorry I was wrong. I apologize, I will never be wrong again. That was my bad. You're right, though. Those are incredibly examined reads. Everyone who is wrong is always scum and especially if they agree with each other or defend each other. You are literally the best mafia player I have ever met

Now, if I've satisfied you, would you mind playing a pro town game from here, taking a second look at your reads and not spamming the thread with this craps?

Thanks.

I was right yesreday, and am right again today. After this game when I've lynched scum you owe me an apology if you're town.
It's that simple, really. Your reads are sewage. Your play is a garbage dump.
You're hard carrying Titus to a scum win, whether you're teamed with her or not.

[Viva La Gloria]

Still deathtunneling

You were right on ONE PERSON. Let's get that straight, dear. And don't get me started on garbage play or trash reads, I don't see where my play is "garbage" but I don't spam the thread nor yell in it nor literally repeat the same thing over and over to get attention for my lynches. I never threw temper tantrum in the thread which is what just about all your posts seem to convey and I periodically go back as reexamined my reads.

Still haven't seen a single reason why Titus is scum.

[Viva La Gloria]

Still deathtunneling

You were right on ONE PERSON. Let's get that straight, dear. And don't get me started on garbage play or trash reads, I don't see where my play is "garbage" but I don't spam the thread nor yell in it nor literally repeat the same thing over and over to get attention for my lynches. I never threw temper tantrum in the thread which is what just about all your posts seem to convey and I periodically go back as reexamined my reads.

Still haven't seen a single reason why Titus is town.

Fixed.

[Viva La Gloria]

Wait a second.
You were voting SS but you made an entire post assuming that he would flip town to defend Titus preemptively?
What the hell is that?

VOTE: EE

[Viva La Gloria]

EE is absolutely right. Viva is voting/scum reading whoever disagrees with her Titus tunnel and not who's actually scum.

You're acting like you aren't one and the same.

[Viva La Gloria]

Oh, and the only ones confbiasing are the ones who are still townreading Titus.
I reevaluated my read for hours overnight deciding where scum stood with respect to the SS wagon, and the best answer I could get was Titus scum.
You are assuming Titus is town based on a wifom argument and absolutely refusing to consider my points.

[Viva La Gloria]

EE is absolutely right. Viva is voting/scum reading whoever disagrees with her Titus tunnel and not who's actually scum.

Hell, what's the point of this besides to discredit my reads?
Are you implying that I'm scum for it? Confbiasing town?
What is the meaning of this observation and how does it hold water when you consider that besides you I was scumreading the same set of people yesterday?

[Viva La Gloria]

so you're hard defending scum and you think I should townread you for it?
That's absolute sewage.

[Viva La Gloria]

Nah Titus is town.

I already destroyed your justifications for this townread.
If you're going to try to keep it you either have to support it or you're claiming scumbuddy once she gets lynched.

[Viva La Gloria]

I love how hard scum are defending each other in this game.
Going to be very, very easy to clean this up once we've gotten one scum lynched.
Goodbye, Titus.

[Viva La Gloria]

Lol, you can speedlynch me if Titus flips town.
Why are you so certain of her townflip, Cakez? Haven't seen much in the way of reasons for that.

[Viva La Gloria]

Oh, the ones I tore to shreds?
Yeah, those aren't holding any sway here mate.
Enjoy your D3 loss. Coulda been D2 but you know random people sheeping Titus for no reason and 'BUT WE DONT LYNCH T-TITUS CHAN D1!!!'.

[Viva La Gloria]

If you're town you're going to look so, incredibly foolish in a few days when we muster up the votes to lynch this thing.

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus and wagons that aren't going to be happening because they're on town.

[Viva La Gloria]

I don't care what you think about my alignment. Call it a bus tomorrow if you want.
We're lynching scum today. Don't stand in my way.

[Viva La Gloria]

VOTE: Titus
Still want the scum lynch above all else.
AI, why are you townreading Cakez?

[Viva La Gloria]

I don't see the scumminess from Pistachion honestly.

So you're townreading Titus and you think that Pistachion's "oh we can just lynch Titus if she's wrong" line was okay?
Do you even have the capacity for cognitive dissonance?

[Viva La Gloria]

Cerberus you said you could do more analysis with flips. What do the two flips tell you?

seconding this request.

[Viva La Gloria]

Holy shit. Okay, umm. Viva, what you're doing is the definition of a death tunnel. Maybe you're fucking right (I haven't seen anything from Titus to make me feel strongly about her in any way), but the WAY you're doing this is incredibly anti-town. You're ridiculous push almost put us at L-1 less than a day into the phase. Answering: lol speedlynch me if I'm wrong is bullshit if you're town, because now you're fucking asking for two mislynches in a row. Go directly to LYLO with 0 scum flips, do not pass go. How about you give us a REAL appraisal of the game state, starting with the assumption that Titus is conftown. I am very interested in seeing where your reasoning leads you. Remember, if Titus is conftown, people who have disagreed with you about lynching her aren't automatically scum anymore!

TheCow: is this a wagon because he's useless? Is that basically what I'm looking at? Oh, and "meta". "Lolhammered town" Yeah, right, because scum wouldn't be SUPER aware of the fact that they're blatantly hammering town. Are you telling me TheCow is Uber and next leveling us here? He made rhe blatant lolhammer play assuming we'd think "No fucking way scum just did that?" No offense, the cow, but I assume competence in scum teams, not inspired play, competence alone does not make that play make sense, and I don't have nearly enough experience with TheCow to assume he's capable of taking that line.

So, yeah. Give me more guys. Titus had a stupid tell that worked for her a few times before and she placed her faith in it, and TheCow is a useless lurksack. Does anybody actually have any more reason for having lynch worthy certainty the wagon they're on is on scum?

1) I am fucking right.
2) SirCakez isn't scum for disagreeing with me about the wagon. He refuses to elaborate on the reasons for his townread, cites ridiculous meta that applies to nearly all of Cow's games as a reason to scumread him, and is defending all of my scumreads and pushing my townreads.
He goes tomorrow.
3) Cow lolhammered a cop in a game before they could claim. Can't use that idiocy as alignment indicative.
4) If you're going to bitch and whine about the current wagons, why don't you present a goddamn alternative.

For the record, if Titus was town the only difference is that I'd lynch EE instead of Yonom. Easy.

I just looked through her ISO. Not seeing it.

I don't even think you're worth talking to at this point.

[Viva La Gloria]

I play Mafia a ton on other forums.

I'm new to these parts, however.

[Viva La Gloria]

What's that supposed to mean?
I gave Titus 5 different opportunities to clarify her SS read and open a dialogue with her. All were refused.
I pointed out what could definitely be seem as scum pushing of the wagon to set her up as a mislynch. I was ignored.
I'm fairly sure if she were town that she wouldn't have played like this, and if she is town playing like this, well, no great loss right?
If you want to make a logical argument in favour of Titus being town, I'll hear it. But I doubt one is forthcoming.

[Viva La Gloria]

She was wrong and refused to engage with anyone or notice the obvious problems with the wagon, and is now suddenly trying to jump on Pistachion and Cow for following her wagon.
It's not about being wrong, it's about the manner of her wrongness.

As scum she wants town to tear itself apart. She wants chaos and she'll kind of press chaos or try to make it happen: fighting amongst town, etc. I know. I have hydraed with her as scum. However. This game she gave us an obvious direction. She pushed it. And kind of left. What does she accomplish from this if she's scum and ss is town? A single mislynch? When town already usually mislynches day one without her help? And then what? We've sat around talking, we have our strong town reads. She lets a town bloc form and tomorrow a lot of people are talking of lynching her if she's wrong. She's drawn a lot of unnecessary attention to herself and she starts in a bad spot tomorrow if she's scum. A nasty one, actually. It's high risk no reward. Not optimal play, in fact quite suboptimal play as scum

I can tell stories about anyone's scum play that will make them sound like gods and make it seem like any game is too mundane to POSSIBLY be her scum play.
Yes, her play was shit this game. I understand that you think that she's a divine create and can do no wrong but she played a horrible scum game and is going to get lynched for it.
Instead of arguing that she's too good as scum (the BEST scum player, hands down, on the site I am from got mislynched page 6 because he blatantly flipped on a read) for a bad game to possibly be her scum game:
explain why you think that she's town here. because your shitty arguments don't cut it.

[Viva La Gloria]

Oh, and I found your hydra game.
EVERYONE was calling Titus scum because of her lame play, even before she scumslipped, except for a few idiots.
Her own scum partner realized that she needed to be bussed there.
You need to stop.

[Viva La Gloria]

VOTE: Viva

Don't care. Can't hunt with the noise. Kill it or me. Ty.

Goodbye.

[Viva La Gloria]

Holy crap she literally lost a game as mafia night one.
Couldn't defend her partner, shot a vengeful who was obviously baiting a shot, got vengekilled in return.
This is the player whom you've chosen to god worship?
Where I'm from this would be, at best, a policy lynch. Disgusting.

[Viva La Gloria]

Line's probably been crossed here but that's how I react to people like EE.
No offense meant to anyone.

[Viva La Gloria]

I can see why you would be doubtful about Titus being scum, but it is a huge leap to go from that to "homegirl". It's just... strange.

I agree that this feels off.

84: suspicious of rhazh and sircakez, who is fluffy and trying too hard, and votes sircakez.
178: dislikes SS' 177.

Some NAI theory stuff, interacting with SirCakez.

386: Thinks AI's 371 is a gambit of some kind, probably scum

389, 394, 397: Clear scumhunting, trying to get in AI's head. Did he ever actually give her a proper answer to 397?

663: Excellent analysis. Declares SS wagon is terrible. Cakez, AI, and Titus are top scumreads.

689: More pressure on AI

692, 694, 696, 701: Notes SS' inconsistency in frequent vote changes early game, but refusal to move it later in the day. Notes suspicion of SS at this point due to the convenience of changing styles once it got him negative attention.

706: Vote on SS, while stating suspicion of Titus and AI dependent upon SS' flip. Pistachion, can you explain why SS scum=AI scum? Also, what happened to sircakez as scum here? Is he just not in the picture at all anymore, or does this flip not reflect upon him in any way? I hate this vote, btw, Information lynch, etc. It's pretty terrible, but the logic with regards to titus kinda held, and may hold for AI, depends.

D2

958: Town!Titus=EE scum. Why?

I need her answers to my questions to give any sort of meaningful final appraisal. I don't know if this Titus push is opportunistic or real. No suspicion of Titus prior to 663, once the wagon was going strong, which makes it feel potentially fabricated.

Need more information.

pedit: AI, do you honestly find it likely that scum!Titus tunneled the shit out of town D1 without giving anything resembling a good reason to fall back on, and then basically said "fight me" to the person leading the push on her, when the sentiment of town was completely against her, and doing so looked scummy as hell?

People mistake aggression for towniness.
I see no reason to townread Titus for anything she's done today or yesterday.
I think it's pretty possible that she ran out of juice D1 and mostly gave up today.

It's advanced scum play. This is what Drixx calls HiPS (Hiding In Plain Sight). By playing super aggressive as scum, you can be directly responsible for mislynches and still be townread by people like you.

It's far better than the lurker or opportunistic scum game.

Yeah, pretty much.
The best scum players try to position themselves as town leaders.

It's advanced scum play. This is what Drixx calls HiPS (Hiding In Plain Sight). By playing super aggressive as scum, you can be directly responsible for mislynches and still be townread by people like you.

It's far better than the lurker or opportunistic scum game.

There's a much simpler term for this that's been around longer than Drixx's term, I imagine. It's called "strongarming" and it's not what Titus is doing, there's a difference. Strongarming or HiPS is when you do scummy things and don't care about it, the only "scummy" thing she's been accused of is being wrong.

Are you saying that refusing to consider alternatives or discuss the reasons for pushing a deathtunnel isn't scummy?
Because you're wrong, flat out.
I and others tried to get her to explain her read better or to reconsider and she flat out refused to.
That's not town motivated whatsoever.

[Viva La Gloria]

Just cleaning this up. Nothing to see here.

[Viva La Gloria]

Uuuuuuugh. Delete this. Wrong game.

[Viva La Gloria]

Yeah.
I really don't like Cerberus's weird stance on the Titus wagon and I think they could easily be scumbuddies here.
His jump from scumreading her at the beginning to 'homegirl' at the end strikes me as bizarre and straining credulity.
I also really don't like how he was the one who prompted me to start investigating Titus but when I did he 180d and completely lost interest in her wagon.

[Viva La Gloria]

I think it's actually possible that scum is staying off to the sidelines here and letting town players defend Titus for them.
But still, the way Sircakez declaring Cow confirmed scum for unspecified meta arguments and refused to make any arguments for his hard defense of Titus is just dirty.

[Viva La Gloria]

VOTE: ee

safer

what the hell is this?
vote Titus with me, jesus.

[Viva La Gloria]

Because Titus, EE, AI and Rhazh/Fire all have associative with SS. Some are townreading and some are scum reading so his flip will be invaluable to sorting those reads further.

can you take us through how your reads in these players have changed?

Titus read is no longer as strong of a townread, but I think her tunnel mainly came from her tell which obviously didn't work out and not from scum intention.
EE read is weaker town since he was a high scumread of SS. I personally didn't see whatever SS was seeing and think Eagle's posts are fine but always have to consider the reads of the dead town.
AI is stronger town since he was defending SS consistently in a blatant way scum wouldn't and I don't see it as white knighting.
Rhazh/Fire more likely scum for lurking out the SS wagon and being a scumread of SS's. He's also doing the same thing today so a good candidate for scum.

The tell that she never explained and just expected everyone to yolo sheep her onto town for? Can you stop hard defending her and just bus ffs?
I don't think EE is scumbuddies with Titus here, I think that he's either misinformed town or white knighting.
AI is pretty damn town, yes.
No, we're not lynching Fire today. End story.

Yeah.
I really don't like Cerberus's weird stance on the Titus wagon and I think they could easily be scumbuddies here.
His jump from scumreading her at the beginning to 'homegirl' at the end strikes me as bizarre and straining credulity.
I also really don't like how he was the one who prompted me to start investigating Titus but when I did he 180d and completely lost interest in her wagon.

I remember started reading your ISO, and I saw that you attributed your Titus suspicion to me. I don't believe I ever expressed any particular suspicion of Titus at, well, any point in this game. I mean, not any more suspicion than for anybody else. It may have been quoted in that post, but if it wasn't, would you mind telling me what I said that got you interested in Titus?

And, it's more like I made a 90 degree turn. She was null, i read her shit, a couple things simply don't make sense for scum!Titus to me, she's PoE'd out of consideration as scum until I have to consider her out of paranoia when we're in lylo and she isn't dead yet.

Yeah.
I really don't like Cerberus's weird stance on the Titus wagon and I think they could easily be scumbuddies here.
His jump from scumreading her at the beginning to 'homegirl' at the end strikes me as bizarre and straining credulity.
I also really don't like how he was the one who prompted me to start investigating Titus but when I did he 180d and completely lost interest in her wagon.

What specifically strikes me as odd about it is the use of the word "conftown" from Cerb. It seems out of character considering his philosophy about the game. It wouldn't be as odd if he had merely said Titus was a townread.

I said probtown, and as close to conftown as we can get. Conftown is impossible in this game, but when behaviors occur that simply don't make sense for scum, I have to establish that person as outside of my pool of potential suspects. She's the first and only slot among those I've looked into whose given me cause to call her probtown. *shrug*

I do get your point, but I think you've only encountered my play and thoughts, pistachion, in games which had role madness and the potential for conftowning individuals without seeing their actual flip. The degree of certainty I demand is naturally higher in those situations than here.

Also, I've been stupid busy, but I should get around to that viva isoing tonight at least, although I might look into droog first and see if there is any reason in his iso for him getting nk'd. I'm not too familiar with his play, so I have no idea why he'd be considered, except I guess maybe because nobody at all seemed to have any suspicions about him.

you made

Titus, how have your reads changed since like page 2 when you thought you had 2 scum caught? Then later, you listed 3 as scum. Do you feel the same about those slots (please remind me which ones they were, I can't check your iso right now).

I don't have a firm grasp on Titus this game. Not even a weak graap, honestly. I've played with her enough to expect to have some sort of lean one way or the other generally, but I don't this game. Her behavior differs from all my previous games with her, I think, in that she's been quite passive after that initial declaration regarding her suspicion of SS etc, but passivity is not in line with my experiences with her as either alignment. This is the second time I've seen her with a vanilla role (I generally only play theme/role madness games) though, and the other time she was hydraing with a hyperactive poster, so it's possible this is just what she does when she can't do any further scheming or planning for her play early game. She's tunneling, which is normal for her, and that's about all I can say for certain.

Basically, this is me doing this:¯\_(ツ)_/¯ with regards to her for the time being. Titus is, imo, almost always a terrible early game lynch, so I'm opposed to lynching her in general without a good reason (which viva has failed to provide), but she's not someone I'd defend based on her play..

and then you entirely 180d again and she became a major townread.
The progression of your Titus read is awful and I'd lynch you for that alone.

[Viva La Gloria]

I could actually see Eagle scum but if Eagle's scum he's almost definitely scum with Titus so please, AI, vote her with me.

[Viva La Gloria]

Eagle, you seem to have an answer for everybody's play. It seems that you know what is going on a little too well.

This is pretty bad. Just because he's making analyses he "knows what's going on too well"?

Nice strawman, but the way he defends people seems to betray a certain insight into the role distribution (i.e., scum).

Similar to you defending random people for crappy reasons.

Wait a minute. Because I have extensive reasons for my reads... I'm scum?

I notice you jumping in everywhere defending whomever for town creds.

So doing things that you can get town cred for (ie, towny things) is scummy now? Dude, seriously? And you're saying I shouldn't defend my town reads? I'm sorry, too towny to be town isn't a thing. :/

I could actually see Eagle scum but if Eagle's scum he's almost definitely scum with Titus so please, AI, vote her with me.

This is a change from earlier, explain?

I think you're WKing way too hard for you to not feel that you have a vested interest in Titus's survival. Eagle!Scum -> Titus!scum in other words. Reverse isn't true.
You could be scum who super hard defends their partners. Either way you might as well be scum aligned based on your play in this game.
Where are the Titus votes at?

[Viva La Gloria]

If Titus was town, why is there so much resistance to her lynch?
Riddle me this batman.

[Viva La Gloria]

If Titus was town, why is there so much resistance to her lynch?
Riddle me this batman.

Because I am obviously town.

Now,can you answer my question.

This is both funny and ironic because I tried to get you to offer thoughts several times day 1.
All you would do is keep repeating that SS was scum and refusing to consider the possibility that Pist and others could have been setting you up or that maybe your 'tell' wasn't 100% accurate when SS was incredibly obvious town based on his reaction to your push. Then throw out token answers to other stuff that also said that 'OH BUT SS IS ALSO SCUM.' Hint: he wasn't.
Why weren't you trying to be communicative back on day 1 when we could have actually not lynched one of my biggest townreads?

Why should I make the effort to try and second guess my scumread and communicate when you refused to make the same effort with SS?

[Viva La Gloria]

And no, you're not obvious town.
Far from it.

[Viva La Gloria]

So, what are your reads if you assume I am town?

@EE, I disagree. Do you think we can agree on pistachion, viva or Fire?

Yeah, so even if I assume you're town then we've got little to no overlap in our lynch pool because Pistachi0n has been way better today and I don't see your scumread on me at all.
Firebringer could be scum but he's not a priority lynch by any means and I wouldn't vote him unless I had no other good alternatives.

If I wasn't going to lynch you I would be going after Sircakez and Cerb who look like they might be WKing you + Sircakez's Cow read is awful, except you've written them out of your pool of potential lynches. So regardless of your alignment our reads are functionally opposites and since you're refusing to explain how you came to any of your reads I think it's way more likely that you're just as full of shit as you were when you were forcing the SS lynch through.

You want to play at being town, you help me lynch scum. You don't try to push more crap that is probably going to hit town.

[Viva La Gloria]

This Firebringer flashwagon is awful but I don't have time to deal with it atm.

[Viva La Gloria]

Why is it awful? You said he was scum but "not the priority"? Why can't he be? Scum is scum.

No, I said he

could

be scum.
The fact that the entire scumteam just flashwagoned him determined that he is town.
Why the hell are we not lynching Titus here?

[Viva La Gloria]

These wagons are awful. Town just can't stop sheeping scum wagons.
I'm gonna look hella stupid if FB flips town but something tells me that he's not going to flip town.
We really need to lynch Titus and her block, especially Sircakez, Yonom's replacement, and Cerberus.

AI is town. Pretty sure FB is town as well based on wagon makeup.
We need to lynch Titus now or we're never going to be able to.

[Viva La Gloria]

Like I'm thoroughly uninvested now since at least some town are blatantly ignoring my calls for a Titus wagon.
When town get endgame by Titus and crew, don't come crying to me. I called scum, you ignored me.

[Viva La Gloria]

You know that I meant scum in the first line.
Don't twist my words.

[Viva La Gloria]

Like scum are so brazen about defending their partners and leading terrible lynches and then we've got half this town just sitting there blindly sheeping scum wagons.
You all deserve this loss if you don't lynch Titus today.

[Viva La Gloria]

k.
I'm not talking to Titus or anyone who townreads her from now on.

[Viva La Gloria]

Pistachion, I am sorry for repeatedly calling you Pisskop. It's a jerk thing of me to do, even though it was an accident.


Kaag, you're wierding me out here...

Kaag is literally the most obvious town and as soon as he moves in on your partners he starts weirding you out?
The nerve of you guys this game has been insane.
VOTE: Sircakez
I'd still prefer to lynch Titus but I'm fairly happy with this one.

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus STILL defending Yonom.

[Viva La Gloria]

Anyway, here is my fucking stance.

VOTE: Firebringer

How the fuck did you let Titus sway you by arguing that you lynch a town player and give reads in twilight?
Has anyone paid attention to your reads lists thus far this game?
No. Scum are monopolizing the discussion. One of us dies tonight. We get forgotten.
We are running out of players willing to vote her and the people townreading her are staying alive.
Vote Titus or Cakez, I swear to god.

[Viva La Gloria]

They're OK. I'm not feeling the AI push though. I'd like it if he gave reads on the other half of the player list that I'm actually having trouble sorting. If he keeps up the activity and doesnt go back to lurking my read might improve.

And yeah Fire's a pretty likable guy, at least from what I've seen so far. Don't know if it would affect your read on him but it's not affecting mine.

I am not likable and I want you to take that back or I will see you in court with my lawyer, Titus, for these slanderous remarks.

Yeah Titus did back off the Fire scum read too easily, agree with AI on that.
Don't sue me over a compliment please.

Reconsidering is not backing off. Reconsidering based on new posts is townie. I still think Fire is scum, but I was seeing if my nagging doubts were accurate or not.

Firebringer, you're likable. I love you.

If you really loved him you wouldn't have rolled scum.

I do think that Firebringer's responses are authentic.

Titus was highly confident of Firebringer being scum a few pages ago. Even complaining to me that I should be voting him because it was so "obvious". Now she is already backing down on that. She is just fucking manipulating this game, and she may even be manipulating SirCakez (or he is part of the scum team).

VOTE: Titus

Go to hell, Titus.

Thank you.
I'm not denying that I'm being a manipulative fuck, but the difference between me and the other manipulative fucks this game is that I'm manipulating you in your own self interest.
KAAG, please follow this. I promise you that this is scum. I see your point on Sircakez and I agree with it, but Titus is scum as well.
We need our own *actual* town block to counter Titus's scumteams grouping.

Confident that Firebringer/KAAG/AI are town here, Firebringer based on the wagon on him and his reactions and the others based on solid town play throughout.

VOTE: Titus

[Viva La Gloria]

Firebringer, your Titus vote was good.
Please don't reconsider it for stupid reasons. I promise you that AI is town this game. Don't give scum their lynch.
Let's get this game on track.

[Viva La Gloria]

I might be an abusive prick.
I don't deny it.
But I'm an abusive prick who is going to win this for town, if you help me.

[Viva La Gloria]

I might be an abusive prick.
I don't deny it.
But I'm an abusive prick who is going to win this for town, if you help me.

Usually when people tell you that, they don't want you to admit it, but actually not be it.

I'm sorry then.
I just want to win this. I'll probably eat a bullet after we lynch Titus anyway.
I can try to be nicer?

[Viva La Gloria]

I might be an abusive prick.
I don't deny it.
But I'm an abusive prick who is going to win this for town, if you help me.

Only a town would be an abusive prick.
We all know best play for being scum is being lovable.
If this was real life, 9 times out 10 town would get arrested on domestic abuse over the scum.

#TrueFacts

If you think I'm town, please sheep me here.

[Viva La Gloria]

If Titus isn't getting lynched today Karnage is my second favourite lynch.
Titus's 180 on Yonom was absolutely disgusting, and Karnage has done fuck all in thread.

[Viva La Gloria]

I don't exactly think that you're town but I like your support for that wagon.

[Viva La Gloria]

If Titus isn't getting lynched today Karnage is my second favourite lynch.
Titus's 180 on Yonom was absolutely disgusting, and Karnage has done fuck all in thread.

That's not true at all.

Throwing out a question isn't a 180 at all. I think Karnage is town. This is ridiculous.

You pushing that Sircakez wagon with no reasoning then everyone surviving is ridiculous.
This town being immediately on board with defending every scummy thing that you do is ridiculous.
You trying to push a lynch on me for 'making too much noise' is ridiculous.

The ridiculous stops when you are lynched.

[Viva La Gloria]

I'm drunk.
What I meant to say was you pushing that SS wagon then everyone (you, Sircakez, etc.) surviving is ridiculous.
You're doing everything scummy and I'm not going to listen to your scumbuddies, thanks. My townreads agree with me.

No, I didn't argue your Firebringer read was an 180. That's a read change I can see.

[Viva La Gloria]

So the fact that it's so hard to lynch fb should be setting off massive alarm bells for everyone here.

LOL.
Meanwhile, into day 10 of trying to lynch Titus, absolutely nothing.
Stop trying to push scum's counterwagons for them you are playing absolutely horrible if you are town.

[Viva La Gloria]

If Titus flipped town it would probably mean scum was in the people white knighting her, like Sircakez.
I remain convinced that the current Titus wagon is entirely town, bar maybe Firebringer.
Karnage / Cerb would also be good scumpicks.
She won't flip town though.

EE could still be scum but I'm getting the impression that he's just an awful, awful town player.

[Viva La Gloria]

When you see the Titus scum flip you'll come around.
Or maybe you won't and you'll go back to sheeping scum lynches after I die, idk, but you've been informed.

[Viva La Gloria]

Hi I've been sitting here making excuses for the entire fucking scumteam to the point that their partners barely need to get involved.
But hey, I'm playing fucking amazing look at me!

[Viva La Gloria]

Viva I thought you agreed to quiet down with the trash you spam the thread with.

When you see the Titus flip if I'm still alive and you fight me on another lynch I'm going to vote you and refuse to unvote for the rest of the game.

[Viva La Gloria]

Vote Titus or stop talking to me.

[Viva La Gloria]

Going back to not reading anything you post.

[Viva La Gloria]

My goal is for you to vote Titus.

I don't know how to get through to you.

[Viva La Gloria]

That's basically a scumclaim.
Cakez is tacitly acknowledging that my lynch is right but saying that people aren't lynching correctly because I'm annoying them.
This town refusing to lynch obvious scum is annoying me, don't see me throwing the game over it.

[Viva La Gloria]

Ah, well in that case, help me to help you.

Why is Titus scum? Without mentioning the SS wagon/lynch.

Why can't we lynch her?
Do you think that if she was town that this would be this hard?

[Viva La Gloria]

Viva is both very arrogant and very rude which I think is why people don't want to sheep him.
Fire, Karnage, KAAG and Cerberus's votes need to move to somewhere that's getting lynched today.

Viva is probably town, but that doesn't make him less manipulative. Yuck.

If you read Day 1 my push for Titus was a lot more palatable.
I'm ramping up as I realize that it's going to take more to get this lynch.
When she gets lynched and the game is cracked wide open, you'll thank me for how hard I'm working for this.

[Viva La Gloria]

I'm a warrior.
I will fight until I get night killed when scum realize they have no chance against me.
I will fight for the lynches I need to win this game.
I don't care how hard scum will bloc together, I will fight them and I will get one scum down before I get killed in return.
That's how mafia goes, and I will play it to the maximum.

[Viva La Gloria]

Firebringer

The only good reason I have not to vote FB is that FB read SirCakez as possible scum, which I agree with.

I don't expect people to defend a wagon on them, but to present cases on others. You can kinda fit FB's contribution on D2 on a post-it note.

Also, not a fan of the exchange between him and Eagle: if you think someone's logic is wrong, say why. The statement without the explanation is pointless.

Titus

Nothing has changed here, still suspect more likely to be town. I've asked the guys/gals wagoning her for a better reason than being wrong on D1, but nothing good enough has been offered.


If I can't get SirCakez (sigh), I'll have to compromise.

VOTE: Firebringer

Firebringer is @ L-1

(I am very fond of Yoshi, and I'll miss the Avatar. )

The big issue with this game is that nobody is coming across as obv!town. There's no PR's, scum know who we are...there's no point in being coy, town.

You don't see an issue with the immediate Titus/Sircakez/Karnage vote block, the same block that was on SS, jumping onto Firebringer together to create a counterwagon for Titus?
Like I'm not sure what to say to you her besides that the answer is glaring you dead in the face.

[Viva La Gloria]

Extrapolated Eagle, Titus, SirCakez, AlwaysInnocent, Karnage

SirCakez, Titus, TheCow, PhantomCobalt, Yonom, Extrapolated Eagle

Familiar?
Same votes, same shitty town wagons.
Titus is scum. You wanna push scum's counterwagon for them that's your prerogative, but if I get NKed you better fucking make Titus happen.

[Viva La Gloria]

EE's narcissism strikes me as far far more likely to come from town than scum.

I COULD see him as scum but it doesn't seem likely that he'd white knight to this extent on town. MAYBE this could be his way of defending scum!Titus; but again, better choices.

[Viva La Gloria]

Stupidity, even. Blindness. Blatant ignorance. It's quite possible I'm completely wrong on Titus and you're right, and looking at the way the counter wagon formed on fb does make me nervous about them if I'm wrong on fb.

The way you word it as 'if I'm wrong as FB' aka wait till you've lynched him just makes me want to punch you.

[Viva La Gloria]

EE's narcissism strikes me as far far more likely to come from town than scum.

I COULD see him as scum but it doesn't seem likely that he'd white knight to this extent on town. MAYBE this could be his way of defending scum!Titus; but again, better choices.

Or maybe Titus is arrogant town hmm.

Your whole dayphase has been nothing but Titus is scum. Your whole worldview (if town) depends on that.

You're saying narcissism is indicative of town, but ignoring my very confident push.

You allegedly have had a Firebringer scumread but are not pursuing it solely because the people you don't like are wagonning the other way.

You die tomorrow because I have little doubt FB will flip scum.

Don't compare yourself to Eagle.
Eagle is confident in a 'why the fuck is VLG not seeing what I'm seeing' sort of way and as you saw on this very page he's capable of reevaluating his reads.
I could potentially be wrong on him but every indication this game has been that his one-track-mindedness has been coming from a town mindset.

You are deathtunneling people on extremely poor rationale, threatening to policy lynch people for pushing against you, your reads are poorly substantiated and change with the winds of the gamestate, and you consistently vote with the same block of people who are consistently mutually defending each other the entire game.

Oh, and your twisting of my Firebringer position is laughable. I didn't call him a scumread, I said that he could potentially be scum. I'm not going to vote someone because they could potentially be scum when the entire scumblock has just voted them and based on their play the rest of the game they're clearly not going to be bussing.

What will you do tomorrow about me when Firebringer flips town? Oh wait fucking nothing because you're going to kill me and hope no one asks questions.

[Viva La Gloria]

Scumbloc leading wagons makes this no fun for town.

Maybe we'll lynch Titus one of these days.

[Viva La Gloria]

Rather lynch Titus, thanks.

If Titus isn't happening I'll lynch Karnage over Firebringer.

[Viva La Gloria]

Could if you voted her.

Would go a long way towards me wanting to support your lynches.

[Viva La Gloria]

If I get killed and you don't lynch Titus I will be literally ashamed of every single one of you.

[Viva La Gloria]

VOTE: Viva

How experienced are you with mafia?

Where the fuck did this come from?
I've played EM a ton and competed in that. Also played some FM elsewhere.

Shrug, if we want to lynch me. Do it now. Get it done. I get the argument for not having me around in lylo. Meanwhile

VOTE: TheCow

Lynch her.
It's way past time to be making comments like that when you strongarmed two town lynches.

VOTE: Titus

[Viva La Gloria]

I am not lynching anyone besides Titus today unless things get desperate at deadline.
We should have lynched Titus on fucking day 1 and we should have lynched her yesterday but she's definitely not fucking living today.
Don't let scumblock push the lynch elsewhere again. They did this yesterday. We are lynching her today. Full stop.
I have been telling you that she is scum for days. If you're not going to fucking lynch her you might as well all be fucking mafia.

[Viva La Gloria]

Oh, and calling Cow out for lolhammering is awful.
Firebringer was at L-1, nothing else was happening, the dude asked to be hammered. Furthermore, Cow has done that before as town.
I sincerely doubt scum are bussing here. Just pull your shit together and vote Titus.

[Viva La Gloria]

Like I literally don't know what else you want from me at this point.

[Viva La Gloria]

inb4 3 more votes pop up on Cow within like a page.

[Viva La Gloria]

Hey, Sircakez, EE?
You were on both mislynches.
If either of you is town and trying to fuck me over here then you can eat metal.
We're lynching Titus. We can lynch Yonom after.
Don't ask me to change my votes. I won't.

[Viva La Gloria]

I agree. Karnage is probably scum.

-but-

I don't trust you guys to lynch Titus after 2 days of this crap.
We're doing her today.

[Viva La Gloria]

I don't like how you're trying to buddy me and my reads but not voting Titus.
It rubs me really wrong.

[Viva La Gloria]

Basically just get the impression that you're trying to get me to vote anywhere else.

[Viva La Gloria]

I'm not conflicted at all.

Try me.

[Viva La Gloria]

Yeah you obviously aren't. All you have to do is plop a vote on the person you've been tunneling the entire game.

What happened to 'just going to sheep AI and Viva'?
Viva is voting scum.
My vote hasn't changed because Titus is still scum. Don't try to discredit me.

[Viva La Gloria]

Like, fuck if you're town here.
I called both SS and Firebringer as town. You lynched them and they flipped town.
I was pretty fucking sure KAAG was town as well.
My reads have been perfectly on point. I have been telling you that Titus is scum this entire goddamn game.
If Titus did something to convince me she was town I would have no issues unvoting and voting elsewhere. She hasn't done any such thing.

[Viva La Gloria]

Like I could do Karnage, sure, and maybe he's scum.
But I am not letting Titus squirm her way out of another lynch.
I'm not letting it happen. Will not lose to her after how she played this game.

[Viva La Gloria]

Maybe EE actually is scum. I don't like his horrifically flanderized fixation on Titus this whole game, though I again note that it isn't necessarily alignment indicative, though it's pretty creepy.
Regardless, we're lynching Titus today, no exceptions.
Like to be frank even if she was somehow town then we need her dead so we can focus on lynching scum. She's been a massive fucking distraction all game and led two town lynches.
We're not going to get anything productive done while she's alive, and I'm near dead certain that she's scum. Let's just get this done.

[Viva La Gloria]

VOTE: Viva

Down for this. Viva won't stop til one of us is dead.

Clarify this for me.

Outside of the fact that I'm voting for you, what's your read on me?

[Viva La Gloria]

Also don't mention what the reads are. Just the reasons behind those reads

PEdit: I've found that scum tend to tunnel on this site. To the point that it's become a tell for me. Look at garmr in the last game I played or ythan in the game before that. It makes it easy to excuse not playing the game.

And you're saying that you don't seen issue with Titus's D1 tunnel on SS or D2 tunnel on Firebringer,

both of whom

were obvious town and whose lynches I spoke against?

get real.

Noise or scum. You're not scumhunting. You are not commenting on major events outside of me. Either way, unless you shape up fast, I want you dead.

Two readwalls would be great. One if I am scum. The other if I am town.[/quote

No, see, that's not happening.
You literally just finished saying that you see the argument for why you should not be brought to LyLo.
You are now trying to push for a lynch on someone who you can't even declare a scumread on on the grounds that I want to lynch you.
Because that would definitely be a way better LyLo situation for town!Titus, right? A third town lynch on your hands?
Get real.

[Viva La Gloria]

Like I can vote Viva if there's a wide consensus but I don't think this hyper tunneling and aggression comes from scum. It would be way too brazen.

What the fuck?
You've seen wide consensuses on two lynches this game. They've both flipped town.
If you're townreading me why the fuck would you consider voting me because scumblock is telling you to?

[Viva La Gloria]

who cares who is agreeing?
why would you vote me because other people think that I'm scum?

[Viva La Gloria]

You know you've paid lip service to being willing to lynch Titus like 5 times.
You haven't voted her and keep trying to push and agree to other wagons.
If I can't lynch Titus and you're not voting her I will lynch you instead.

[Viva La Gloria]

I still think Cow is mafia trying to act like terrible town. You can see in his posts how he's devolved and it looks intentional.

Still looking for excuses to vote anyone who isn't Titus.

[Viva La Gloria]

And yet you're fishing for ins to every single wagon in the game that isn't Titus and not engaging her nor engaging anyone else scumreading her for reasons to scumread her.

[Viva La Gloria]

Nevermind, missed that SirCakez. I have a bit of a cold.

SirCakez, Karnage, EE, Cerb and I agree on the cow.
A wagon cannot go through on town without scum at this point I believe. I would like all of us to vote cow. If I am therefore wrong about cow, scum have to be on his wagon, thus proving scum in my townreads. Then y'all go fight each other.

aka lynch town then vote the townies in your fan club.
not happening. you hang today.

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus is not scum with Cow.

[Viva La Gloria]

Karnage? 100%.

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus is still townreading Karnage with absolutely zero reason given.
Scum clearly feel no need to bus with so many town eating out of Titus's palm.
The only thing that would cause me to have a chance of voting Cow would be a Titus townflip which just isn't happening.

[Viva La Gloria]

Why the eff would I let you shovel through another garbage mislynch?
Hell, even if you are town, why should anyone trust your reads after you power lynched two townies?
Like, no. I'm not obligated to give you the benefit of the doubt after two days of you absolutely refusing to engage with me.
Bye.

[Viva La Gloria]

I really started thinking it's odd after he switched his vote again to AI again, not mentioning why he moved away from SirCakez. That seemed like he was trying way too hard to successfully lynch someone. He was basically using every chance he got to switch his vote.

How is he trying way too hard to lynch someone by peeling off the most successful counterwagon?

That doesn't make sense.

Now he has already been called out for this by others and he was able to provide some good explanations. But it's not that hard to come up with a good explanation for any situation. It seems weird that SS always has to go back and explain his actions. Every time he adds a few new details to his excuses, which makes me think he is making up a lot of these things. Example:

You call him out to explain his actions and he does.

Wouldn't you think that scum trying to make a false throught process would have a more static version of their past actions than town who had a more fluid thought process that they didn't necessarily get across the first time exactly as they meant it?

Thats a lot of new details that he hadn't described before. Yes it makes sense that he thought someone else was scummier, but did he totally forget that he had voted for someone else before? Didn't it seem odd to him to switch his vote without any hint on the previous vote? I personally feel like I'd need to justify the change. It seems like he was too busy focusing on the new person to notice this though, lol. Which makes me question if he actually compared the person he was voting with the older suspects. Which makes me wonder how much thought he puts into his votes and if he knows the implications of a mislynch.

Like, so what?

Why can't he switch from a less likely scumspect to a more likely scumspect? Do you disagree with the authenticity of his explanation for the read change? If so, why?

Titus, how have your reads changed since like page 2 when you thought you had 2 scum caught? Then later, you listed 3 as scum. Do you feel the same about those slots (please remind me which ones they were, I can't check your iso right now).

Yup.

SS rhazah ai

Reads haven't changes. Probably should have just sat and lurk derped instead.

Cakes wagon was shit and I see that the same people are trying to come after me.

*shrug* I am through trying to fix dumb. Either you go questions or you don't.

OK then.

1) Explain why you consider SS confirmed scum.
2) Explain why you consider Rhaz confirmed scum with him.
3) Explain the full progression of your Yonom read.
4) SS flips town. Then what?

I also _REALLY_ hate Titus's interactions with Yonom.

She randomly scumreads her then townreads her again and says that she's doing some sort of mother hen thing because she's a newbie.

Really doesn't make much sense at all.

That's because you're struggling with comprehension of my posts. Yonom did something kinda anti-town. Scumhunted it. I concluded I was right.

Walk us through that because I see no reasons to see anything besides a scum 180 from your Yonom push.

Right in Yonom being town.

Lynch SS and Rh and the game is over.

So we lynch SS and he flips town, then what?

Why are we lynching SS and why are we lynching RH?

I never scumread Yonom. I was suspicious of the slot and sorted it.

Scum caught in RVS don't become town because it would appease people.

I have hunted. I have two scum. White flag needs two scum lynched. The counter on obvtown cakes was just icing.

You can stall victory or get on board.

How do you expect me to distinguish whether you're flagrantly declaring people scum for mislynches or legitimately scumhunting?

SS is pretty damn town and if you're as good as you're claiming to be then I'd be able to lynch you for being wrong. Burden of proficiency and all that?

And even if he is scum why should I not see this as a bus?

Your position doesn't make sense whatsoever.

What would everyone's opinions be of an EE wagon? I'd prefer that to SirCakez, because I have given my reasons for voting SirCakez but this is starting to feel more and more like a mislynch. I'm trying not to tunnel too badly here.

Distancing from reads.

Wait, so he's trying to find someone to lynch BESIDES his counterwagon and you call it distancing from reads?

That's so incredibly dishonest.

I want to see SS's role.

Yeah, don't take any responsibility for your reads.

SS is clearly a scum led wagon; that much should be obvious.

Like when you have the fucking nerve to call me 'noise' after you piledrived two town lynches?
Don't even talk to me. At least if you're scum you were just playing your wincon.

I don't think anyone can consider me as refusing to engage with you given my continuous reach outs and requests for you to see the gamestate from alternative perspectives.

Again, you're not considering the possibility the cow may be scum? Is this because I suggested a cow lynch or because you have an independent townread on him?

Entire scumbloc is jumping on Cow, yes. Not sheeping that. Not following you. You die today.
I don't have a particular scumread on him either. Would lean town without associatives.

[Viva La Gloria]

You have strongarmed lynches onto two obvtown. You voted with the same bloc of people consistently and never questioned why the same people kept joining you on mislynches.
You still are refusing to reconsider any of these people after your reads were proved incorrect time and time again.
I explained why both of the players you lynched were town; you ignored me and shoved the lynches through.
Cow may not be obvtown but I don't give a flying fuck who you think is town or scum anymore. If you flipped town I would ignore every single read you had.
I don't care. stop talking to me.

[Viva La Gloria]

Happy Valentines day.

I'll get back to this later.

[Viva La Gloria]

I get this.

I am town though.

All my scumreads got on this wagon. My wagon hits Lminus 1 when I unvote Cow and consider voting Cerb.

I am thinking Cerb Pistachion plus one other.

Good luck.

I recommend tomorrow @start of day popcorning reasonless reads lists and then scumhunting from there.

Like, what's so recommend worthy about that shit?
That request hardly even makes sense. What good does that do, Titus? What is the specific value of that play?
Like really; why would she call for that? That's clearly scum trying to look townie by pretending she cares about what happens after she gets lynched.
AI, Cakez, just lynch her, jesus. I'm not risking a lynch on anyone else and Titus continuing to worm her way out of the noose.
I note that Cakez expressed support for Titus only when it seemed inevitable but as soon as it's not he's trying to push other wagons again.
So, Cakez/Titus/Cerb?

[Viva La Gloria]

Reading someone as town doesn't mean that you're reading them as good at reading people

lol.

one of us townread both the mislynches.

one of us pushed both the mislynches.

keep your fucking mouth shut because your reads thus far this game have been horrid.

[Viva La Gloria]

like no offense this is just a game.

but your reads have been awful this whole game and now you're insulting me?

[Viva La Gloria]

Sorry about the rudeness as well EE. It wasn't called for.
I'm just super frustrated about how hard this Titus lynch has been to get.
Here's a proper readslist at any rate, if only to help you guys out if I get night killed.

Town:

AlwaysInnocent

: Always felt really on the same page with him, a lot of shared reads, I've felt that he never took any of the townreads on him or took any of his townreads for granted, and that paranoia seems very town. He's also stuck his neck out defending town in very non-white knighty ways that could have easily come back to bite him and that I don't think he would have done as scum. Very much went against the crowd and in town's interests when town was doing stupid crap. I'm legit surprised neither he nor I were NKed by this point.

ExtrapolatedEagle

: I've wavered on this but I don't think that EE would defend his partner this hard without slipping up and looking a ton more scummy than he is. The only thing I really want to hold against him is his incessant Titus WKing but he's town here regardless of the Titus flip. And if he really is scum with Titus we'll figure it out by lynching their other partner; I don't want to touch him this game. Also the arguing that we've had has felt really since from his PoV which makes me feel that he genuinely feels wronged in a way that I don't think that he would as scum.

Probtown:

The_Cow

: This is an iffy read but I feel like scum have not been bussing this game and basically everyone that I'm not townreading is all over him. Again, even if scum are trying to pull off an elaborate bus here (or even are trying to get Titus lynched to clear Cow), this isn't a slot I'd want to be lynching in for the rest of the game. Plus, there's just way too many people scumreading him and most of the people are scumreading him for reasons that are NAI from my meta dive.

Null:

Pistachi0n

: Like she's been objectively really just bad (not like scummy bad but just ugh.) but she's also been one of the people consistently voting scum and VCA paints her really well.
I'm inclined to just pencil her in as weak town because I like most of her positions overall I just think she should like put more effort. Why play this game if you're going to basically lurk and not push any of your reads, idk. but probably town.

Maybe scum-

Cerberus

: I really hated how on D1 he started pointing out the flaws in Titus's push, part of what led me on that path, but then when I mentioned it he completely 180d and denied having anything to do with it. I also get the feeling that a lot of the questions that he's been asking me have been entirely pointless; like I haven't answered the majority of what he's asked me and nothing. He also does a lot of just declaring things without really following up on it and I have never gotten the impression that he's actually trying to solve the game. Cow push sucks as well. If 1 of my 3 scumreads is actually town this is probably the fourth.

Scum-

Karnage

: A lot of this is based off of associatives with the Titus slot and Titus's scumflip makes this an instant lynch tomorrow but I could make a strong case independently even; there's the day one shit where they had like this mini distancing session and Titus randomly came out with a weird ass townread. I really hated the 'oh let's see how far you are willing to bus him Cakez' thing from yesterday; that looks like scum distancing with an out after Firebringer flips town. His reads are weak and feel like they're just following crowd mentality, both Karnage and Yonom have been part of the scum voting block (and her positions have been just as weak!) and have possibly the worst substantiation. Like, let's help Cakez bus? what the fuck. no.

Sircakez

: Slimy as fuck. Been on every town wagon, and SS's wagon that took off way too fast could easily have gained support as a counter wagon for Scum!Cakez. I really don't like how he agreed to lynch Titus and now is like digging for every excuse to not vote Titus and making other people take responsibility for his votes. His 'oh my reads are bad so I sheep' claim doesn't really mesh with the way he's playing; he's pushing for literally every wagon that's not Titus right now and I'm pretty sure he's actually just hoping that one of them takes off. Don't think he's town here. If he's town, he deserves like an award for most pro-scum play.

Confirmed scum-

Titus

: I feel like I've said enough here? She's jumping from easy scumread to easy scumread (cow now), she's been strongarming lynches while refusing to give reasons and then making really crappy analogies for why she shouldn't be held responsible for unexplained lynches that hit town. Even after the disaster SS lynch (which I tried several times to get her to substantiate on and she refused) she did the same fucking shit with Firebringer; barely explained wagon on an easily lynched player with the same crappy votes on it, hits town, doesn't really say anything about it at all. Her attempt now to try to smooth things over with me after she has refused to talk with me at all this entire game just feels so dirty and scummy; I wouldn't expect town to wait until she's absolutely forced to engage with me to do so. Particularly considering that I was generally townread and she had tried to vote me a few times; that's something that I think that Town!Titus would have tried to get things going on but she never did. Always felt like she was content just being lazy and going for easy wagons (Cow again!) and she's been just pushing wagons through in a really dirty way. Like, she is trying today to get a Cow speedlynch going under the pretensees that it's to 'clarify that there's scum in her townblock', like what the fuck? Like, no. She has to go today.

In terms of the likely teams I've been looking at, in sets of 2:


Extremely likely
Titus/Sircakez (Poorly supported townread on Sircakez from Titus, Sircakez saying he's ok to lynch her but pushing every other wagon)
Sircakez/Karnage (Let's help Cakez bus from Karnage, pushing for a Karnage lynch without actually pushing for it from Cakez)
Karnage/Titus (All that crap from Yonom, poorly clarified position from Karnage, extremely stale and unexplained townread from Titus)

for my Karnage/Sircakez/Titus working theory.

The one thing I don't like about putting Karnage and Sircakez together is that Sircakez has been pushing for a Karnage lynch but I think that it's a distancing attempt and that scum were expecting to have to bus one of their own if the Cow lynch didn't go through. I also get the impression that Sircakez isn't *actually* trying to get the wagon shifted, he's just trying to make a show of it, whereas with other things such as Cow I feel like he was genuinely trying to make something happen.

Other possibilities include:
Cerb/Titus (Associatives are horrible)
Pist/Sircakez (The only person Sircakez hasn't tried to pin the lynch on that's scummy is Pist. All he's done is call her null and ignore her)
Cow/Pist (Long shot but if Titus was town this would sort of make sense, with Pist pushing Titus as a chainsaw)
EE/Titus (long shot, and still best not to lynch EE. If EE were part of the scumteam with someone else who wasn't already a likely lynch contender I'm positive that they would have come into today or yesterday with a speedbus on Titus.)
Cerb/Pist (Maybe? they don't really have positions on each other)

Anyway, that's where I'm at. Sorry if you felt that I was tunneling but I've been paying attention to everyone, believe me; I just feel like we have to lynch Titus or she might never get lynched.

[Viva La Gloria]

No quickhammer. I want clarification on what some people are thinking before we go to night.

I'm probably the NK since my death no longer points to anyone in particular so.

[Viva La Gloria]

'stop yelling at you'? Titus isn't even at L-1.

[Viva La Gloria]

Vote Count 3.2

AlwaysInnocent {0} -
Cerberus v666 {0} -
Viva La Gloria {0} -

Extrapolated Eagle

,

Titus

pistachi0n {0} -
SirCakez {0} -

Extrapolated Eagle

TheCow {1} -

Titus

, Karnage
Titus {3} - Viva La Gloria, TheCow, pistachi0n,

AlwaysInnocent

Extrapolated Eagle {0} -
Karnage {1} - SirCakez,

Extrapolated Eagle

Not Voting (4): AlwaysInnocent, Cerberus v666, Extrapolated Eagle, Titus

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or No Lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2016-02-25 14:30:00) from now, or February 25th at 2:30 PM Eastern (GMT-5).

Prodding: N/A
Replacing: N/A

Spoiler: No Strikethrough VC

Vote Count 3.2

AlwaysInnocent {0} -
Cerberus v666 {0} -
Viva La Gloria {0} -
pistachi0n {0} -
SirCakez {0} -
TheCow {1} - Karnage
Titus {3} - Viva La Gloria, TheCow, pistachi0n
Extrapolated Eagle {0} -
Karnage {1} - SirCakez

Not Voting (4): AlwaysInnocent, Cerberus v666, Extrapolated Eagle, Titus

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or No Lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2016-02-25 14:30:00) from now, or February 25th at 2:30 PM Eastern (GMT-5).

Prodding: N/A
Replacing: N/A

Now titus has {4} votes and is at L-1.
But, okay.

[Viva La Gloria]

No, it's ok. we'll lynch cow who you said would flip town to prove that one of your townreads is scum.

that's happening.

[Viva La Gloria]

Nevermind, missed that SirCakez. I have a bit of a cold.

SirCakez, Karnage, EE, Cerb and I agree on the cow.
A wagon cannot go through on town without scum at this point I believe. I would like all of us to vote cow. If I am therefore wrong about cow, scum have to be on his wagon, thus proving scum in my townreads. Then y'all go fight each other.

[Viva La Gloria]

Umm, failsafe? what?
Like, I'd instavote you in LyLo.
I mean I would already but even moreso after you pushed another wagon that hit town.
Failsafe means jack shit. You talked more about the results to appear town, but since you knew he was flipping town you talked about his townflip.
Like, I'm still instavoting you in LyLo.

[Viva La Gloria]

Yeah, how about you try reading my posts if you're town rather than trying to fit them into a scum box.

You still didn't answer 1911.

I don't have to put you in a scum box, you were born there.
Oh, and the answer is I don't care.

AI is happy to lynch you, for one.
EE doesn't support your lynch yeah but he clearly idolizes you so I don't think he's objective here.
OMGUSing is not scummy. It's at worst bad play, but I don't think anyone here thinks that Cow is the pinnacle of town prowess?

Your scumreads WERE supported by jack shit. Your 'case' on SS was complete garbage and I explained to you why on day 1; you ignored me. Your 'case' on Firebringer I don't even remember anything about besides that you were pushing him with minimal reasoning besides meta and saying that it was bad gut. So yeah, pretty fucking shitty scumreads. Now you're onto Cow, easy lynch #3. Not happening while I'm alive.

Like, you must realize at this point that if you flipped town I and every other smart town player would systematically ignore all your reads. If you were town you've been utterly wrong all game and have tried to lead this game off of a fucking cliff for 3 days running. Lynching you is the best thing for town, period. And that's the most I'm saying about the possibility that you're town, because if you're actually town here I will have a fuckton to say to you in post game.

[Viva La Gloria]

I can't be scum with Titus. Not sure why Cerb is parking his vote on me.

Who said you were scum with Titus? And of course you can't be scum with her, because she's town. And my vote is parked on you for reasons I have given previously in the thread.
Speaking of which, wtf guys? Why are we sitting here and letting fucking thecow lurk through another day?

I want to lynch you more every time I see you post. Either you're scum buddies with Titus or you're buddying her.

They could be buddies, yeah. I might be wrong about Karnage or Cakez.
We're lynching Titus today though, period.

[Viva La Gloria]

Like, I don't mean for this to be an insult to you or her, but it's pretty clear that you respect her a lot and look up to her.
Calling it creepy was horrible of me and I'd take that back a hundred times. There's plenty of people of both genders who I look up to in Mafia.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with it but I feel that you are slightly pedestalizing her and that you may not have a clear point of view on her.

Also, it's not that she's -wrong- per se, it's the manner in which she's wrong. She's shoving through lynches in a really bad way, I don't feel like her pushes were legitimate, and I feel like she's been consistently choosing the most easily lynched targets at the beginning of each day. I'm extremely sure I'm right here.

Can you at least agree that if she flips scum and I die you'll consider following my lynchpool?

[Viva La Gloria]

AI: See the second sentence of this post. Want to know what makes absolute sense to me and I'm not letting go of and fuck all of you who don't see what I see? Titus as town. Actually, let's step this back a bit. You say I'm either buddying titus, or I am scum with her. 1) Do you seriously think I would hard defend the fuck out of her and keep screaming that she's town while she's blatantly ramming lynches on scum through? That's a path that leads *directly* to her getting lynched, then me getting lynched, a loss for our team. There is basically no chance that we're scum together. If I'm scum buddying her, if you have even the tiniest bit of experience with her...you should realize that anyone who KNOWS Titus knows buddying her as scum is incredibly dumb as well, because HER OWN SCUM PLAY is largely based upon letting 'townbeards' win the game for her by buddying up with the people who are wrong and getting a faux town block going off in the wrong directions.

And how the fuck is that not this game?
Like you literally exactly described her play in this game. You and EE (assuming that you're town) making excuses and pushing her mislynches while she hides in the back.
Cerb if you're town you're being incredibly dense.

[Viva La Gloria]

AI: See the second sentence of this post. Want to know what makes absolute sense to me and I'm not letting go of and fuck all of you who don't see what I see? Titus as town. Actually, let's step this back a bit. You say I'm either buddying titus, or I am scum with her. 1) Do you seriously think I would hard defend the fuck out of her and keep screaming that she's town while she's blatantly ramming lynches on scum through? That's a path that leads *directly* to her getting lynched, then me getting lynched, a loss for our team. There is basically no chance that we're scum together. If I'm scum buddying her, if you have even the tiniest bit of experience with her...you should realize that anyone who KNOWS Titus knows buddying her as scum is incredibly dumb as well, because HER OWN SCUM PLAY is largely based upon letting 'townbeards' win the game for her by buddying up with the people who are wrong and getting a faux town block going off in the wrong directions.

And how the fuck is that not this game?
Like you literally exactly described her play in this game. You and EE (assuming that you're town) making excuses and pushing her mislynches while she hides in the back.
Cerb if you're town you're being incredibly dense.

Valid point, and maybe I am being incredibly dense, but seriously...as I pointed out in my 1042, her 1007 had an extremely high chance of resulting in her death. I can not imagine scum!Titus taking that chance,when she could have deflected somewhere else instead of confronting you. :-/

And the rest of her play is has been all about solving the game!

Also...umm, wanna address my allegation that your are incredibly compromised and unable to properly evaluate any slots in the game because of your Titus tunnel? At least tell me you're considering that I might be right about that?

I ignored your allegations because they're stupid.
she's scum. either vote her or quit wasting my time.
and no, she made that post because she knew you'd react in that way. People assume suicidally anti-town things have to be town so they get townread for them.
I don't buy that logic for a minute, whatsoever, particularly coming from someone who has been hyped by several players as a good scum player.

Also, what's up with that passivity? Do you wanna, umm, etc? You're acting like I'm about to rip your head off or something.
I'm sorry if I've been nasty this game but Titus needs to get lynched.
You want to win this game, just vote her.

[Viva La Gloria]

Viva, there is a REASON why suicidal plays are seen as unlikely to be made by scum.

Because they're dumb, and they, by definition, tend to result in the death of the player making them. Unless Titus has certain knowledge of the likely reactions of this particular group of players, or at least of those members of this group of players who weren't already voting her, AS A WHOLE, NOT JUST ME, then the line doesn't make sense. It's a terrible play.

Also, sorry if my verbiage isn't as forceful as you'd like. I just don't see a reason to use imperious phrasing at this time.

-Cerb

Fuck no. Not when half the game is already firmly in her camp and hanging onto every word she says.

Why's this day still going even? Just hammer.

[Viva La Gloria]

You people should learn how to bus.

[Viva La Gloria]

Stating intent to hammer.

Thank you.

Posting this again. Please don't say stupid shit like Cow was getting bussed tomorrow.

Sorry about the rudeness as well EE. It wasn't called for.
I'm just super frustrated about how hard this Titus lynch has been to get.
Here's a proper readslist at any rate, if only to help you guys out if I get night killed.

Town:

AlwaysInnocent

: Always felt really on the same page with him, a lot of shared reads, I've felt that he never took any of the townreads on him or took any of his townreads for granted, and that paranoia seems very town. He's also stuck his neck out defending town in very non-white knighty ways that could have easily come back to bite him and that I don't think he would have done as scum. Very much went against the crowd and in town's interests when town was doing stupid crap. I'm legit surprised neither he nor I were NKed by this point.

ExtrapolatedEagle

: I've wavered on this but I don't think that EE would defend his partner this hard without slipping up and looking a ton more scummy than he is. The only thing I really want to hold against him is his incessant Titus WKing but he's town here regardless of the Titus flip. And if he really is scum with Titus we'll figure it out by lynching their other partner; I don't want to touch him this game. Also the arguing that we've had has felt really since from his PoV which makes me feel that he genuinely feels wronged in a way that I don't think that he would as scum.

Probtown:

The_Cow

: This is an iffy read but I feel like scum have not been bussing this game and basically everyone that I'm not townreading is all over him. Again, even if scum are trying to pull off an elaborate bus here (or even are trying to get Titus lynched to clear Cow), this isn't a slot I'd want to be lynching in for the rest of the game. Plus, there's just way too many people scumreading him and most of the people are scumreading him for reasons that are NAI from my meta dive.

Null:

Pistachi0n

: Like she's been objectively really just bad (not like scummy bad but just ugh.) but she's also been one of the people consistently voting scum and VCA paints her really well.
I'm inclined to just pencil her in as weak town because I like most of her positions overall I just think she should like put more effort. Why play this game if you're going to basically lurk and not push any of your reads, idk. but probably town.

Maybe scum-

Cerberus

: I really hated how on D1 he started pointing out the flaws in Titus's push, part of what led me on that path, but then when I mentioned it he completely 180d and denied having anything to do with it. I also get the feeling that a lot of the questions that he's been asking me have been entirely pointless; like I haven't answered the majority of what he's asked me and nothing. He also does a lot of just declaring things without really following up on it and I have never gotten the impression that he's actually trying to solve the game. Cow push sucks as well. If 1 of my 3 scumreads is actually town this is probably the fourth.

Scum-

Karnage

: A lot of this is based off of associatives with the Titus slot and Titus's scumflip makes this an instant lynch tomorrow but I could make a strong case independently even; there's the day one shit where they had like this mini distancing session and Titus randomly came out with a weird ass townread. I really hated the 'oh let's see how far you are willing to bus him Cakez' thing from yesterday; that looks like scum distancing with an out after Firebringer flips town. His reads are weak and feel like they're just following crowd mentality, both Karnage and Yonom have been part of the scum voting block (and her positions have been just as weak!) and have possibly the worst substantiation. Like, let's help Cakez bus? what the fuck. no.

Sircakez

: Slimy as fuck. Been on every town wagon, and SS's wagon that took off way too fast could easily have gained support as a counter wagon for Scum!Cakez. I really don't like how he agreed to lynch Titus and now is like digging for every excuse to not vote Titus and making other people take responsibility for his votes. His 'oh my reads are bad so I sheep' claim doesn't really mesh with the way he's playing; he's pushing for literally every wagon that's not Titus right now and I'm pretty sure he's actually just hoping that one of them takes off. Don't think he's town here. If he's town, he deserves like an award for most pro-scum play.

Confirmed scum-

Titus

: I feel like I've said enough here? She's jumping from easy scumread to easy scumread (cow now), she's been strongarming lynches while refusing to give reasons and then making really crappy analogies for why she shouldn't be held responsible for unexplained lynches that hit town. Even after the disaster SS lynch (which I tried several times to get her to substantiate on and she refused) she did the same fucking shit with Firebringer; barely explained wagon on an easily lynched player with the same crappy votes on it, hits town, doesn't really say anything about it at all. Her attempt now to try to smooth things over with me after she has refused to talk with me at all this entire game just feels so dirty and scummy; I wouldn't expect town to wait until she's absolutely forced to engage with me to do so. Particularly considering that I was generally townread and she had tried to vote me a few times; that's something that I think that Town!Titus would have tried to get things going on but she never did. Always felt like she was content just being lazy and going for easy wagons (Cow again!) and she's been just pushing wagons through in a really dirty way. Like, she is trying today to get a Cow speedlynch going under the pretensees that it's to 'clarify that there's scum in her townblock', like what the fuck? Like, no. She has to go today.

In terms of the likely teams I've been looking at, in sets of 2:


Extremely likely
Titus/Sircakez (Poorly supported townread on Sircakez from Titus, Sircakez saying he's ok to lynch her but pushing every other wagon)
Sircakez/Karnage (Let's help Cakez bus from Karnage, pushing for a Karnage lynch without actually pushing for it from Cakez)
Karnage/Titus (All that crap from Yonom, poorly clarified position from Karnage, extremely stale and unexplained townread from Titus)

for my Karnage/Sircakez/Titus working theory.

The one thing I don't like about putting Karnage and Sircakez together is that Sircakez has been pushing for a Karnage lynch but I think that it's a distancing attempt and that scum were expecting to have to bus one of their own if the Cow lynch didn't go through. I also get the impression that Sircakez isn't *actually* trying to get the wagon shifted, he's just trying to make a show of it, whereas with other things such as Cow I feel like he was genuinely trying to make something happen.

Other possibilities include:
Cerb/Titus (Associatives are horrible)
Pist/Sircakez (The only person Sircakez hasn't tried to pin the lynch on that's scummy is Pist. All he's done is call her null and ignore her)
Cow/Pist (Long shot but if Titus was town this would sort of make sense, with Pist pushing Titus as a chainsaw)
EE/Titus (long shot, and still best not to lynch EE. If EE were part of the scumteam with someone else who wasn't already a likely lynch contender I'm positive that they would have come into today or yesterday with a speedbus on Titus.)
Cerb/Pist (Maybe? they don't really have positions on each other)

Anyway, that's where I'm at. Sorry if you felt that I was tunneling but I've been paying attention to everyone, believe me; I just feel like we have to lynch Titus or she might never get lynched.

[Viva La Gloria]

I'd be very happy with a lynch on scum.

Hammer Titus.

[Viva La Gloria]

sorry.

I don't even want to play this anymore.

[Viva La Gloria]

I want to reread EE's yesterday.

I don't understand that night kill.

[Viva La Gloria]

AI was universally townread and his townreads have been on point all game. He was the obvious night kill.

I still don't think he's scum but maybe he's misreading scum's designated ML or EE had really on point reads.

Lots of Cow scumreads getting thrown out which makes me wonder if scum want to lynch him today.

[Viva La Gloria]

Pist, Cerb, everyone else, what are your reads on Cakez and Karnage?

[Viva La Gloria]

Especially considering there's only like 300 posts for him ever, so. umm. yeah, not the most difficult ego search to peruse for an alt slip. I understand not wanting to be a dick and outing someones alt, but he shouldn't have fucked up and slipped if he didn't want his alt outed.

Viva, who are you?

If you want to know, find out yourself.

[Viva La Gloria]

Nope. Secret alt and all that.

Should I have?

If you have some strong desire not to play with me let me know and I won't join your games.

[Viva La Gloria]

I mean that's answer enough.

But as far as I was aware the fight was between myself and Drixx and we've sort of squared that off so I wasn't even thinking about that at the time.

I will not join any further games with you.

[Viva La Gloria]

If Drixx was 'playing' in the game I absolutely would not have joined.
In my experience the people who dislike playing with me, IE Marquis, are perfectly content having me join games they moderate because they don't have to deal with me.
I didn't suppose that it would create issues with you or I wouldn't have joined.

[Viva La Gloria]

I see your point. we can talk about this in postgame.

[Viva La Gloria]

If it makes you feel better this was my first attempt at a secret alt.
In my second which has since been made public I did make the moderator aware of my identity because someone had suggested it to me in the time between their creations.
I will continue to do so in the future.

[Viva La Gloria]

Pist, what's your read on Cow & Cerb?
Cow, what's your read on Pist?
Cakez, what's your read on Cerb?
Cerb, what's your read on Cakez and Pist?

Karnage, full readslist please.
AI replacement (whenever we get one) the same.

What's everyone's Pistachi0n reads?

[Viva La Gloria]

I think that Pistachi0n is probably scum no matter what the scumteam is.
I could see her defense on Cow as being a chainsaw but I could also see it as just having been deliberately contrarian to stay off the major wagons if her partners were on.

The only scumteam I can really think of that doesn't include her is something like
Cakez/Cerb/Karnage
but it's sketchy because of the whole Cakez pushing on Karnage the entire game thing.

[Viva La Gloria]

I still think that Cow is town though, and I don't like how freely people are suggesting that lynch.

[Viva La Gloria]

fuck no. unvote that shit.

[Viva La Gloria]

What's your Pist read?

[Viva La Gloria]

Stop it.

What's your Pist read?

[Viva La Gloria]

Hi Ranger.

This is RC. Give me a moment and I'll give you some catchup material and post my thoughts.

[Viva La Gloria]

Ranger, I like you, but if Cakez was my partner and playing like this I would have made sure he got lynched day 1.