Open 634: Sharing is Caring (Game Over)

[KuroiXHF]

How convenient, a vc right here.

VOTE: Kuroi
for being last.

VOTE: Masquerade
I needed to talk to my scum bu-...scum bubbles.
...spring cleaning, yeah.

[KuroiXHF]

Just went through the game and the only two people really popping out are KT and wgeurts.

KT is most assuredly showing signs of attempting to be better. Still, look at your posts from other's point of views. Why is your aggression and your voting someone else connected? Has that person done something foolish and you're aggressively going after them because it sure looks like you're using your "aggression" as a synonym of reckless, where you're acting without regard for not only others, but of sound tactics.

wgeurts is just a player I'm not used to. You remind me of Plotinus in the sense that you're zeroing on everyone and going so far into detail that it's scummy, but you don't ping me as scum. If that's your playstyle, fine, but it's going to force me to read your posts a lot more than I normally will.

[KuroiXHF]

kuroi why are you trying to STOP me pressuring SHOTTY....??

I'm not, but blindly voting isn't pressuring anyone. If he does something that warrants a vote and you respond by voting him and asking him questions that keeps him on his toes, you are effectively applying pressure. However, if you simply vote him for something incredibly minor and you change your vote like the wind, you're not pressuring anyone and you're not going to persuade anyone to your cause.

At this point, people ignore you because your votes tend to be baseless and erratic. If you want people to stand behind you, take a step back, take a deep breath and ask questions first.

If I may bring forth an example:

Wrong:

Person A: I don't like this lynch.
Person B: But this person is so clearly scummy! You must be their scum buddy! Vote: Person A!

Right:

Person A: I don't like this lynch.
Person B: Well why not? What specifically about this lynch do you not like?
Person A: *Lists a bunch of reasons*
Person B: *Responds and refutes.*
Person A: *Argues in an inferior way that appears that they're protecting much more than actually defending a townie who has simply said the wrong thing the wrong way.*
Person B: Alright. I believe that you're defending your scummy because of *listing reasons via quoting* Vote: Person A.

You do too many of the Wrong, and not enough of the Right, KT.

[KuroiXHF]

I actually disagree. It seems obvious you were kidding.

[KuroiXHF]

My vote was strictly an RVS vote for the hat. I still hate the hat, but
UNVOTE: .

You saw three votes on someone and you decided, "Hey, let's just RVS this guy. That's not scummy at all?"

[KuroiXHF]

Nope. Why do you think it's scummy?

One of the more recent games I've been in, someone was lynched before I even got to the computer. This was day one, and I was actually scum. You brought someone to L-3, to a point where it's easy to have someone lynched.

If you're not scum, you're clearly not playing with the town's best interests in mind.

[KuroiXHF]

Can you also confirm whether or not the scum driving that got away with it?

All I'm saying is that driving a person to L-3 unwarranted is anti-town. However, it is also suspicious. I'm not going so far as to say it's scum driven, but I don't think I can read anyone on that bandwagon (especially the latter half) town.

[KuroiXHF]

What I'm trying to figure out is whether you're trying a faulty push or you're genuinely freaking out about this as town. How much experience do you have with mafia Kuroi?

A bit. I've played for a while a couple of years back. Accumulatively, about two years, I'd like to guess. I'm not pushing him, at least, not for a lynch. I'm really trying to go through his thought process. From my end, I'm seeing a couple of reasons he did what he did:
1) He didn't know how many votes everyone had. <- Unlikely, given his answer.
2) He didn't see a problem with it. <- I think he said this is why.
3) He thought he could get away with it.
I disagree with L-3 being nothing. No one should be that close on the first day because it's so easy for townies to get lynched. Please don't even suggest that wouldn't happen.

My vote was strictly an RVS vote for the hat. I still hate the hat, but
UNVOTE: .

You saw three votes on someone and you decided, "Hey, let's just RVS this guy. That's not scummy at all?"

Like this just seems wrong. Why would scum do something blatantly scummy if they knew it was blatantly scummy? Wouldn't you agree that's the kind of thing they would want to avoid?

What's your read on texcat kuroi?

Concisely, either lean scum or null. Given what little I know from him this early during the day, I can't be sure. I'm just sure that I didn't like what I saw and so I wanted answers. I also don't want to answer your other questions because that's leading to a WIFOM. "He wouldn't do that, that's something only scum would do! But maybe that's what they want you to think! Maybe thinking that's what they want you to think WOULD BE what they wanted you to think!" I prefer the KISS method. (Keep it simple, stupid.)

Preview Edit-Masquerade: Town-reading him right now. Not because of the townread of me, but rather, more about his second point. I don't think he knows me well enough to say what I like to hear but if I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll find out later.

Preview Edit-SirCakez: Did you want to see how closely together all of those votes were? It wasn't a poke to see if they were there. It was an opportunistic and growing bandwagon. Again, I'm not stating Texcat is scum, but it warrants question and that bandwagon by itself is an anti-town move.

[KuroiXHF]

(That moment when you had to click "Submit" three times before your post actually goes through. Didn't have to deal with that craziness since the Game of Thrones game, lol.)

[KuroiXHF]

RVS wagons form all the time, not indicative.

It is sometimes indicative and always anti-town.

[KuroiXHF]

Yep. And I still don't see a problem with it. I do find it strange that you are so focused on it, especially since Alexcellent seemed totally indifferent to the wagon.

So focused? You're not the only person I've spoken to and I didn't even say that I scum read you, but you're acting so defensive.

VOTE: Texcat

This is not RVS and I do scum read you now, at least more than anyone else and enough for a vote on Day One.

[KuroiXHF]

hello!!!

Welcome back. What do you think about Texcat and myself? Do you think Texcat or I are overreacting?

[KuroiXHF]

Guys, if I respond by the post, I apologize. I'm at work and won't be able to go completely full out until later on today (about 4 PM-ish EST)

RVS wagons form all the time, not indicative.

It is sometimes indicative and always anti-town.

I disagree, they produce content and gain momentum.

I don't disagree with that. They obviously produce contest if we can respond to them and four votes in mere hours is certainly gaining momentum, but there's positive momentum/content and negative momentum/content.

Kuroi if you're town please reread texcats post and take a really good look. That was not a scum over the top defense. Also defending ones self is once again also not a scum tell. It's going "over the top" in your defense displaying over-confidence and/or paranoia that is scummy.

I will reread. I'm not saying he's scum, but he's certainly the scummiest here. Please keep in mind that we're only in the first days of Day One. I don't even fully scum-read Texcat. I have him as lean scum. Don't worry, wgeurts, I'll be looking at everyone. If you show me someone who deserves the noose more, I'll show my vote in that direction.

[KuroiXHF]

We don't have much to go on yet so I would say both actions are pretty null. Kuroi is the only one who is asserting this is some type of scum tell right? Since no one else is coming up with lame reason to support him I'm leaning that he is null - scum more than null town. Its D-1 and IME scum is always the most opportunistic here.

Right now I have a very extremely weak null scum read on Maixmous, Kuroi, and Percival, and Kain Tepes. Each one of these slorts have attempted to push weak cases that no one else is being opportunist about at all.

I think you're expecting high levels of arguments based off nothing. If I was using the strength of argument from today on Day Four, fine. I take your point. But here, on Day One, where we're going based off RVS and small talk? I see what you're saying, but I disagree with it.

BTW, I don't take kindly to you calling me a slort.

Yeah we can't wait around for scum to offer themselves on a platter. But when have any of you ever caught scum before they slipped up? I am a firm believer in that your win con ultimately influences your decisions.

I don't understand this. Town's win condition is to eliminate scum. Scum's win condition is to pretend to be town and pretend to want to eliminate scum. Third party's a bit different, but there's not much of that this game. Essentially, they all act to want the same thing, getting rid of scum and with scum tactics like bussing, where they actually get rid of scum, I don't know what you mean, unless you're just providing filler.

That being said I have a theory about all mafia games with the standard 9 player newbie setup. At some point in time before the game ends it goes to either mylo or lylo. It is here that scum has to make its move. Its here that they are forced to deliver themselves up on a platter. I think the best course of action for a VT is to develop your reads as the days progress and try to eliminate players that are anything less than town starting with who is more than likely to be scum. Outside of PR's that is pretty much all you can hope to do as town.

Question... Isn't this kind of the goal of Mafia games? People who create setups want to hit as close to a 50/50 chance of victory for either town or scum. Sure, this varies with the skill levels of the players along with a degree of luck, but generally, a lot of games that are balanced end up coming to lylo/mylo? Am I misunderstanding you?

Right now I have a very extremely weak null scum read on Maixmous, Kuroi, and Percival, and Kain Tepes. Each one of these slorts have attempted to push weak cases that no one else is being opportunist about at all.

Wow that was bad.

Are you referring to his spelling of your name?

[KuroiXHF]

Yep. And I still don't see a problem with it. I do find it strange that you are so focused on it, especially since Alexcellent seemed totally indifferent to the wagon.

So focused? You're not the only person I've spoken to and I didn't even say that I scum read you, but you're acting so defensive.

VOTE: Texcat

This is not RVS and I do scum read you now, at least more than anyone else and enough for a vote on Day One.

7 out of your last 8 posts were about me and my RVS vote. I think that's focused. (If you hadn't made that one short post about hitting the submit button 3 times, it would have been 7 out of 7.)

I've been doing most of the talking for most of the eight posts. Maybe I'm just more active than everyone else, but I talk to someone when they respond back to me. Believe me, if Joe Schmo replaced someone and started talking, I'd be asking them about the game.

Quickthoughts.
*SNIP*

Fair assessment. I'd actually really like to hear from those who have post few times.

[KuroiXHF]

Nope. Why do you think it's scummy?

One of the more recent games I've been in, someone was lynched before I even got to the computer. This was day one, and I was actually scum. You brought someone to L-3, to a point where it's easy to have someone lynched.

If you're not scum, you're clearly not playing with the town's best interests in mind.

I don't personally agree with this line of thinking. I don't think it's anti-town usually, unless it suddenly gets to L-1 because derphammers are a thing. But L-3 isn't really a dangerous thing in RVS, they can get reactions and create content. Odds are slim that three more votes will suddenly pile on to someone in RVS.

Slim isn't zero. Maybe if I haven't experienced this myself, I may agree with you but because I have, I'm not going to agree with you. This is, in the grand scheme of things, minor but people are trying to change my mind that bringing someone to L-3 in RVS isn't an anti-town thing to do.

Texcat would have been much better off accepting it, and moving on, waiting for someone to do something scummier.

[KuroiXHF]

I suppose I should put my read list:
Strong Town: KuroiXHF
Lean Town: Allexcellent, Wgeurts
Null: Aneninen, drmyshottyizsik, Clumsy, KainTepes, Masquerade, Persivul, Maxous, Sircakez
Lean Scum: Texcat, BlacleWorks
Strong Scum: Davesaz

Notes:
- Most people are unsorted and it's either because they haven't pinged me either way or they haven't posted enough for me to get a real opinion.
- I almost put KainTepes as lean scum because his behavior is different this game and he's less erratic, but I think he may be learning, which is why I changed my mind and put him as null.
- Davesaz is clearly scum since he knows all the other scum but won't tell us! :-p
- Have a question as to why I read someone as I did? Let me know!

Preview Edit-Alexcellent: And it's less likely than the RVS-Lynch on Day One in my micro game. Still, we're past that point. Like you, I object more to Texcat's response more-so than his actual vote.

I'm still unsure about Maxous. I'll read more later.

[KuroiXHF]

I'm so confused right now and feel like I really should be voting BW for the above.

Voting when confused is not something I would recommend. I'd prefer you vote when you understand what's going on.

[KuroiXHF]

VOTE: Kuroi

I'm going to look away and when I look back, something that is naked will be a little less naked.

I'm so confused right now and feel like I really should be voting BW for the above.

Voting when confused is not something I would recommend. I'd prefer you vote when you understand what's going on.

Coaching your partner or protecting them here? Advice like this is almost always given by scum

Wgeurts' vote weighs as much as mine. Call it coaching if you like, but I'd rather people know why they're voting.

[KuroiXHF]

why warn scum though, why not continue to let them slip up?

Who said anything about scum? I'm town-reading him. Plus, this is day phase. Do you think he's going to accidentally forget his scum buddies if he's scum?

I thought I posted my reads earlier but apparently not :/
Leaning scum on Shotty, Kurio, Blacle
Leaning town on Anen, Alex, Tex
Haven't read enough of others yet

I see a Kuroi vote. Wagon time
VOTE: Kuroi

Wonderful. Which votes of mine do you not like? Why do you think I'm scum?

Preview Edit-Aneninen: Sure. I have two scum games on MS:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65032 - A Song of Ice And Fire Mafia
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65526 - Pokemon Episode 2 Mafia

[KuroiXHF]

What do you think of Maxous and his vote on Texcat?

So I wasn't sure before and I'm still not 100% sure. I'm definitely not reading him. I'm definitely fence-ing on if he's lean scum or null. I don't like his vote on you not because of any L-4 reason, but your post was an obvious joke and he seemed to take it quite seriously.

I also got a weird feeling when he followed my vote, but I admittedly brushed it off.

Preview Edit-SirCakez: You haven't been reading my posts, have you? That's not why I'm voting Texcat. I also have other lean scum. My ISO is yours to read at your leisure.

[KuroiXHF]

It's a large part of it, yeah.

Go through it again, then. I'm really fine if you vote me but I'm going to be really annoyed if I get lynched because you have no clue what it is I've said or done.

I'm voting Texcat because she reacted horribly to my questions. I'm voting her because instead of simply moving on, she's fighting me and is focusing on it. She's doing no scum hunting and is tunneling me.

I also lean scum on BlacleWorks.

[KuroiXHF]

Preview Edit-Aneninen: Sure. I have two scum games on MS:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65032 - A Song of Ice And Fire Mafia
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65526 - Pokemon Episode 2 Mafia

Thanks, but that didn't help me much.
Something is there in your posts that shouldn't be there and I don't know what it is. I hoped checking your scumgames could help but not.
I don't know what to think.

I didn't think it'd help, to be honest. I tend to play a different game every time I play, at least so far. All I can really do for you is answer any questions you may have. I also work at a job that, depending on the time of day, unless there's something going on, I can post a lot. I've played games before where my high activity level has made me look scummy.

[KuroiXHF]

You're right. I have no idea wgeurts is town. With that said, all I suggested was vote when you're not confused. I'm really surprised that people are looking at this suggestion as scum helping other scum. But, whatever. If you're voting me for that, at least you've taken my advice.

[KuroiXHF]

SHOTTY IS SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!

You were doing so well before... why'd you stop? Really, you need to do more than just throw accusations.

[KuroiXHF]

BTW, Clumsy made a very good point, one I hadn't noticed. If he's scum, he's doing a damn good job.

[KuroiXHF]

FYI, I'm generally AFK on weekends. I may be able to put in something every now and then, but that's about it.

[KuroiXHF]

...I am REALLY not liking Blacle's posts... When I'm fully back on Monday, I'll have to reassess.

[KuroiXHF]

BTW, Clumsy made a very good point, one I hadn't noticed. If he's scum, he's doing a damn good job.

Hrng... I want to like this (for vanity), but it rubs me the wrong way. I go from completely Null in your 122 to "If he's scum, he's doing a damn good job [of hiding it]."? It feels like buddying. I might be being paranoid? Am I paranoid? I'm paranoid. Still don't like it though. I feel like I only had 1 actual good post so far, far from a damn good job. Meh.[/quote]

I accidentally skipped this post. No offense, but I don't see you doing anything before that post that made me feel you were town before scum or that.

So yes, you had one really good post. That one. Since your post, My bottom three are Texcat, Blacle and Aneninen. I'm confident there's scum in one of these three.

[KuroiXHF]

To respond to you, Wgeurts, I do definitely have something to add to Blacle but this requires a longer post and to reiterate, I'll be able to do this tomorrow.

[KuroiXHF]

Alright. I'm back. I'm excited to finally make my full recap from the weekend. Will I lay the hammer? Time will tell.

[KuroiXHF]

Hi Kain of all the Players here I like you. Please never change. Some players have been trying to control your playstyle since your first post. That's a sign of being scum IRL. Idk how what that has to do with the game tho.

I'd just like to say, I hate this post. All of it. From beginning to end, but I want to say that none of us are trying to change his personality or who he is. We're trying to help him do better. All this does is make it seem like you're trying to buddy him also.

Back and doing what I promised. I've reread clumsy's posts and I'm not feeling that as scum anymore. I saw a "why me fry me" tell in there before and I apparently read the rest of his posts with a bias after that, ignoring that now there's honestly not too really see as scum-motivated.

So you're just saying that you're just reading it the other way? Nothing wrong with that, reads change, even on the same posts. But you did seem pretty confident on that, just casually throwing out the possibility of lynching me today, which would be a very bad idea.

Don't drink and mafia unless your a professional. If you can't see it masquerade I'm just going to add you to the people who have no memory of what has been posted. That being said I catch all "mistakes" and count them as Lies. I can cloak and dagger all I want. It helps me get reads and I am town and gettting reads is all I can do so If I get lynched for playing differently than you then so be it. Your just not mature enough to read intent.

Please don't act like you're some sort of mafia professional. I keep getting the impression that you're all about twiddling your fingers together and then telling everyone when they catch you on your shirt that you're saying, "No, you fell into my

real plan.

" Of course there's deception in Mafia and even townies do it from time to time, but let's be real - if you were so good, you wouldn't be forced into a position where you had to claim - real claim or not.

I don't have much to say.
I'm already voting for Blade and I can't see any reason for changing that.

Wgeurts can be sorted out later.

Why do I get the feeling you're just flying low under the radar?

Even though I really do not like what Blacle is doing, I don't think he's scum anymore. Went through his iso and this

I don't like that I'm agreeing with what wgeurts is saying. Its almost like hes forcing me to town read him by giving generally useful advice. Stop manipulating me!
[ unvote][/unvote]

shows that he already had some suspicion to wgeurts.
It's also not the first time I played with an idiot that thinks it's a good idea to make himself look like lynchbait, so there's that.

I'm actually taking this into consideration. Thanks, Masquerade.

Before anyone hammers they must give a 24 hour intent to hammer. If not blitz lynch them tomorrow.

I really hate whenever anyone says this. You're in no room to start telling us how to play this game. If I'm going to vote you, I'm just going to do it. I won't speak for anyone else but myself but if someone hammered you before I was able to post, I would still go through all the evidence and posts, then ask questions before I simply vote anyone.

[By mentioning my poor use of the English language you discredit yourself. You can always ask for clarification if my words do not make sense. Is my posting format confusing to you?

Out of curious, Blacle, is English not your first language?

Blade, you need to claim..

I'm getting a scum vibe from you. FYI.

Mobilepost.
Let's see whether there's a vounterclaim.

As for the usage.
Either NoKill or he should shoot a conflicted player.
No individual action Blade, please! The title of The Worst Vig ever was taken ages ago, okay? ^_^

I really don't like this. Why are we simply having people claiming? This is not a good strategy.

Anyways, now that I'm current, and since we have no counter claim, I won't vote Blacle. Texcat's naked vote didn't alleviate my concerns, but I'm also worried about Aneninen. For right now, my vote remains as it is.

[KuroiXHF]

You have my meta.
Your feeling is wrong.

Meta is only a tool. It's not an end all.

Who's not scumread by you?

I did put a readlist out there, though it's now semi-outdated.
Those I'm not scum reading (although not necessarily town reading) are:
drmyshottyizsik, Clumsy, Alexcellent, KainTepes, Masquerade, Maxous, wgeurts, SirCakez

That's all except for about three people.

Preview Edit - I guess we're doing this. I'm not a vig.

[KuroiXHF]

Um more votes on Wgeurts please. Obviously the scummiest person in the game followed by Anenien.

No Kuroi don't drink and mafia unless your a professional at drinking and mafia is how that was meant to be read. Viewing me as scum at this point makes no sense. FOS on you. Seems like you should know better than this if your trying to teach players how to play. I'm having fun and playing well. Let us not hate the player... lol

I was responding as I was reading. I'm probably not alone in saying you're the scummiest person this game, even if you're not scum. If it wasn't for the claim, I'd already have my vote on you.

[KuroiXHF]

If we aren't going to lynch Wgeurts today. I would be okay with lynching Aneninen based on the associatives with Wgeurts. I still prefer a Wgeurts lynch.

Sorry, but you have to say, "I want to vote wgeurts" about six more times before we're convinced to vote him.

Damn you're right, I felt like I'd been posting more then that.
Regarding the coasting people - I'd put Persivul in that list. He's been noticeably quiet.

Last week my cat died, my daughter had surgery, and I was working 12 hour days. Check any of my games, I was noticeably quiet in all of them.

I've seen people say negative things about you, but you'd have to be a real douchebag to lie about this. I'll give you a pass.

VOTE: TEXCAT

HE IS SCUM BECAUSE WGEURTS,, is town

And in other news, Justin Beiber's music is shit so Rebecca Black gets a Grammy award.

VOTE: Texcat

I'd need to make a quotewall to explain myself and I'd rather not do that. Instead, if you don't agree point me to a post you think is town and I'll explain why it's scum.

If there's anything anyone wants me to comment on, let me know. I think it's a good idea to stop talking about the PR's. My opinion is they should do what they see fit, and there's no reason to inform scum about anything.

I'd just like to say that this just feels like sheeping to me.

[KuroiXHF]

Your posts are contributing very little. You were sitting on your RVS vote until this morning, like seriously.

This game is moving slowly, and until then I had no reason to change my vote.

Does anyone here know if he's normally reactive? (Expecting the game to move before he does?)

[KuroiXHF]

Again, no explanation? Throughout your ISO, this is the first time you've mentioned Masq. Is it just for pressure or what?

I'm beginning to scum read Persivul. Dude, I fucking get it if you have emergencies with your pets or families or whatever but if you're not going to be able to play this game, you should replace out. I hope you're not just using that stuff as a crutch.

[KuroiXHF]

Do you really think I would play like this as scum?

Almost textbook definition of creating a WIFOM.

I'm not sure what's stopping me in voting you, Persivul. I'm weighing my options right now. For right now, UNVOTE:

[KuroiXHF]

I'm going to agree with Drmyshozzyizsik and I'll also follow Persivul's advice.

VOTE: Persivul

I've explained my reasoning.

[KuroiXHF]

Why is everyone playing rediculously shit tier mafia?

Shit tier mafia? Let's see...

Using meta to establish reads? I make a point to play differently in every game just to prove that meta is actually the worse way to attempt to read someone. I think some of you forgot that this game is purely psychological.

So you're intentionally trying to manipulate the effectiveness of meta by acting artificially. That doesn't quite disprove meta. It doesn't disprove that meta is a valuable tool. Still, it's only a tool. The thing about tools is that for any big project, one tool doesn't do it all. Sure, you need a hammer to build a house but you can't build a house with just a hammer. Meta is a tool, and a very good tool too but you can't find mafia just by meta.

Lynch Wgeurts.

Shit tier mafia, huh? The only way you can try to bring others to your side is by repeating, "LYNCH WGEURTS, LOLZ!"

[KuroiXHF]

Like what the fuck do you mean by typical town content.

Walls of analysis that everyone is announcing. I'm not in the mood. Deal with it. Or, lynch me and watch me flip town, after you've already run up a town PR.

Evidently your win condition (if you're town) is to find scum at most costs. (All costs except the costs of you not feeling like it.)

[KuroiXHF]

Kuroi, your reaction is shit tier.

Oh good. So I react as well as you play. I was worried we weren't playing on an even field.

Your only capable of pointing out the obvious

I can do much more than that. It's just that everything you're doing is obvious.

You are actually playing worse than Wgeurts.

How much worse? You told everyone to vote him like fifty times and I don't think you told people to vote me even once?

Atleast Wgeurts can keep his emotions in check. Atleast Anenien has the balls to recognize terribad plays.

My emotions are fine, unless you can consider laughter emotion - in which case, you're right. And I've actually called you on your terrible plays.

I am absolutely disgusted so far. I am very happy that I am the Vig Framer on me tonight... also don't kill me

Why do I get the feeling the Blacle's going to kill me tonight? lol

[KuroiXHF]

KT is pretty much about to be replaced.

[KuroiXHF]

If we can't come to an agreement 24 hrs before dead line I propose we do a 3way hammer... You know what nevermind you guys are big babies and would not go for that! BABIES!

Oh no... My tiny feelings. They're hurt!

[KuroiXHF]

Why is it important that Wgeurts stays alive? I just cant seem to figure out his importance to the game

BW, what is the importance of a town player being alive in mafia?

THE TOWN NEEDS TO BE ALIVE TO WIN!

And if you shoot the player making the most content and being the most productive you're a fool.

I don't like this post. Wgeurts is making it way too obvious he wants all of us to think he's town. I think he just pushed me down to reading him as null.

Also BW if you shoot me, we policy lynch you and then the town loses you are solely responsible. If you want to win don't be an idiot.

Fuck that. I don't policy lynch anyone. If I lynch BW, no matter how little sense he makes, it's because he's proven to have lied about his role. Unless that's done, I'm not voting him and neither should anyone else.

Regarding KT: I don't give a fuck if he's going to be replaced. Look at the wagons. Look at his ISO. It's scummy. Note it NOW befoe someone comes in and cleans up the slot. I've cleaned up some very bad scum slots as a replacement. It's not difficult. In this game, all you need to do is post a wall of non-committal observations and some newbie theory and you're conftown.

Says the man who voted someone else the next post he made. KT is scummy, absolutely, but in order for your logic to make enough sense for me to follow you, he'd have to be much scummier as scum than he is as town. He's as scummy as he usually is, and I'm really interested to see the defense that his replacement makes.

Just lynch me. I have never seen so much stupidity in a single game.

I agree, but your condescending attitude isn't of much help. Neither is your playing against your win condition.

Also, mod. Please consider me v/la until Monday afternoon. I can post until 9:00 PM EST tonight. I'll also guarantee I'll be nowhere near as active this weekend as I was last weekend when it comes to posting while on v/la. I'm going larping!

[KuroiXHF]

OMG Kuroi he's not playing against his win condition!!! Why are people so dumb. If Percy is scum than guess what he doesn't look like scum by what he is doing. If Percy is town then guess what he doesn't look like scum by what he is doing... You know why? Playstyle is NAI!!!!!!!!!! The reads are in the motivations behind the action!!!!!!! Scum gets caught because they are paranoid as fuck and slip up trying their best to fit in... There is soooo much more to this game than being able to post witty remark sigh....

The hell... I'm about to start ignoring you and I can't tell if it's that you're more emotion than logic or because you use more exclamation points than words. What does, "Playstyle is NAI" mean?

Neither is your playing against your win condition.

That's a serious charge and it's bullshit. Flips alter the game, and allowing yourself to be lynched D1 in hope that the drivers of the lynch will be analyzed D2 is a valid strategy.

p-edit: and what BW said.

Let me put it down like this. If you willingly allow yourself to get lynched as town, you're making it harder for town to win. If you willingly allow yourself to get lynched as scum, you're making it harder for scum to win. I don't suppose you're a jester, are you? Because I'm sure that either belongs to BW or KT.

[KuroiXHF]

Kuroi stop please that's not playing against your win condition.
Why did you make a wall about your scumread on wgeurts but not vote him?

Because I didn't scum-read him. I found him scummy enough to bump him down from town to null, but he stays there. There are scummier people out there.... I'd also hardly consider my disagreements with wgeurts to be a wall.

[KuroiXHF]

Also, as a general rule, a wall really doesn't mean there a vote has to be placed. All a wall means is that I have a lot to say. I used to think Wgeurts was pretty comfortably town, but I don't think so anymore. I'm still trying to think if I disagree with wgeurts' playing style, or if he's playing alongside a scum tactic. When I come back on Monday and find pages of new information, I'm sure that I'll have new opinions and new reads on people. I'll then post more.

That is, of course, unless someone is already lynched.

[KuroiXHF]

sorry if i'm glazing over this a bit but I still prefer a lynch among {KainTepes, Texcat, Masquerade} if at all possible

So I just skimmed through your ISO and I was curious if you think KainTepes is intentionally coasting or if you think he gave up on this game (or MafiaScum). I can see your arguments on Texcat and Masquerade, though, although I'm not sure I agree.

[KuroiXHF]

Fair enough. Thanks for answering.

[KuroiXHF]

Back form my V/LA

All I can really add is that I don't like this vote on shozzy. I mean, it's not terrible, but don't count on me switching because it's L-1. Maybe if deadline is imminent, but two days was added on. I'm also looking forward to Chilledtea's catch-up.

Also, you're right Aneninen. That comment of mine does sound like a bussing comment. Woops.

[KuroiXHF]

I think bw is a loose cannon, literally

Blacle certainly

does

seem loose here.

[KuroiXHF]

That's a weird question considering their was only 1 kill. With the roles it's possible that that was a vig shot, but it seems more likely it's the NK.

VOTE: wgeurts

Which was the weird question?

[KuroiXHF]

It confused me when you voted someone else.

Person A: *asks odd question.*
Person B: OMG THAZ SO SCUMMIEZ! LOLZ! *Votes Person C*

[KuroiXHF]

haven't put together a readslist yet and think I should

(Blacle)
(Anen, Persivul)
(Maxous, texcat, chilledtea, Clumsy)
(wgeurts, Kuroi)
(Masquerade)

You've thought of me as scum more than once this game, but I don't believe you've given me a reason why.

[KuroiXHF]

Yes, because mafia vote together. You have no idea that Persivul is or isn't scum. Or Texcat. Or Aneninen.

Preview Edit- I'm not the JK either.

[KuroiXHF]

If you're referring to where I said 'hammer me' , I was being sarcastic there. Ofc I don't want be lynched.

That actually wanted me to lynch you.

[KuroiXHF]

You've thought of me as scum more than once this game, but I don't believe you've given me a reason why.

Maybe because you're so concerned about yourself.

Asking a question equals concern about myself to the scum degree? If you're reaching for straws, you might want to be a bit more slick about it.

i'm not a jailkeeper

VOTE: KuroiXHF

quick tl;dr: he was really aggressive early, got very quiet during the scum lynch and looks quiet and demotivated now because he lost a buddy

i'll give more thoughts tonight/tomorrow, sorry.

All I can say about heading into the scum lynch was that I was heading into a V/LA and was low on time since I was preparing for my event. When I came back from my event, there was already a lynch.

Well then
VOTE: Kuroi
Agree with the above + listed reasons earlier

At least I'm now fairly sure you're town. You've been more or less consistent on me.

[KuroiXHF]

Oh happy day, the drunk is going to give me a chance to redeem myself...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

[KuroiXHF]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Buddying

Disproving someone's criticism means that I'm trying to buddy up to you?

[KuroiXHF]

It's blatantly clear than buddying is a scum tactic, and that you were accusing me of buddying and, by extension, scum. Please don't be coy.

[KuroiXHF]

Actually, I was thinking there was also the possibility of you subconsciously buddying me by attacking Persivul's attack on me. I didn't really see it as something alignment indicative.

Did you see where you were on my last read list? You weren't strong town. If you want to vote me, do it and stop playing footsie with me.

Do you see ad hominem as alignment indicative?

No, I see it as a lack of fluid logic. I base my votes based on logic and encourage others to do the same.

[KuroiXHF]

Masquerade, look at who I voted yesterday, then come back to me.

Perisvul's response doesn't really tell me much.

[KuroiXHF]

Has everyone else gone through and confirmed there are no CCs? If yes, we can confirm him to be town. If not, I want to wait until everyone stops by before I can take him off the table for scum.

[KuroiXHF]

Fuck me sideways but I can't find an argument to lynch wgeurts... and the only one to give me anything was Sircakez.

I'd like to see heat on Aneninen and Texcat.

[KuroiXHF]

Why is that, Kuroi? You'd like to see heat on us, but don't vote us? Or make any argument for why we are scum?

VOTE: KuroiXHF

Holy shit, that was a horrible post. If I want to see heat on someone, I would HAVE to vote them? Why the hell are your reactions so terrible?

[KuroiXHF]

My question to you

was

heat. This isn't the first time you've acted much more erratic than the average person. Going from zero to sixty isn't normal. Are you always like this, or just this game?

[KuroiXHF]

That's because you put forth that inappropriately emotional questioning in the same post as the vote. There's a difference between not doing the dirty work and fielding out thoughts from everyone else.

[KuroiXHF]

And then they were more along the lines of when did you quit beating your wife than real questions.

No, it was a real question. Are you normally thing temperamental with your accusations? Because they are this game.

[KuroiXHF]

Did a quick skim of Kuroi and I feel like voting him. Don't have much time and want to check on a couple other things, also Kuroi is weekend-v/la so it's not likely he's going to respond soon anyway.
I don't believe his responses to me earlier this day came from town but so far that's my stongest argument and mostly because of his tone.

Yes. Tone is alignment indicative. Amazing work.

I can write a case on Kuroi if I have to

Let's hear it.

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Wgeurts Today, Kuroi Tomorrow.

Original thoughts. Where are they?

[KuroiXHF]

Great reasoning. It certainly doesn't suggest you're voting for me for reasons not pertainent to the game.

I was going to vote you, but I'm not sure if you're just making a newbie mistake.

[KuroiXHF]

Do you realize you haven't pushed anything today? Who are your scumreads Kuroi?

...You're completely evading my question. Now I'm forced to ask myself, since KT left town, are you scum or a VI?
Or did you not see me pushing Texcat, who I actually still scumread.

Here's my readlist:
Strong Town: Clumsy
Lean Town: Wgeurts, SirCakez
Null: Chilledtea, Persivul, Maxous
Lean Scum: Aneninen, Masquerade
Strong Scum: Texcat, Masquerade (Put you in twice because I'm trying to figure out your level of intelligence/scum.)

I admittedly have much more scum reads than I like. I'm really itching to vote you, but I don't want to be too hasty.

[KuroiXHF]

Do you realize I'm uncc'ed JK?

I haven't read the game since before the weekend. I would have if I felt like I was going to vote you. OK, VI.

[KuroiXHF]

Holy shit. Is that all you read on it? Did you also read posts from Day One?

Tell me, are you simply too lazy to read or do you just not give a shit?

[KuroiXHF]

Can we please get rid of Kuroi who just admitted he isn't even reading the game?

Way to twist my words. I said I haven't read since before the weekend. I skimmed the posts since I was gone Friday night and then said I would have re-read before voting anyone.

Sircakez, are you now just trying to make up reasons to get rid of me?

[KuroiXHF]

I then said I skimmed the game since. The message behind my words for "not reading the game" is that I forgot who was the claimed for the power role.

AND as I said, I would have reread before throwing a vote out. Want to stop misusing my words?

[KuroiXHF]

I said that I read from BEFORE the weekend. Are you not even reading the words that you're twisting?

[KuroiXHF]

Right, since I came back from the weekend. There was no jailkeeper claim since the beginning of the weekend.

[KuroiXHF]

Yes, before 11 PM.

I'm not playing this fucking game of semantics and grab-ass with you two. If you want something substantial, talk to me. Otherwise, I'm not interested.

[KuroiXHF]

Ah. Wgeurts wasn't scum so I must be. Did you also notice my lack of vote on him?

[KuroiXHF]

I pushed by asking questions. This is a mobile post. Will have a vote out by tonight

[KuroiXHF]

I had clear pressure on Texcat, who either does nothing or has irrational responses. I was stuck between Texcat or Aneninen, but Aneninen at least seemed to make a half-assed effort.

VOTE: Texcat
I still find Aneninen extremely scummy. SirCakez is now rubbing me the wrong way for the apparent tunneling and the caption next to their vote.

It's funny. I don't really see much of a reason for my vote. What did I do Day Two? It's more of what I didn't do. I didn't vote anyone.

[KuroiXHF]

your play has been ridiculously different between post-shotty lynch and pre-shotty lynch.

How? Please be specific.

[KuroiXHF]

To clarify to everyone else, I'm now L-1. If you're going to vote me, be damn sure you have all the answers off me.

Pretty quick wagon though, don't you say?

[KuroiXHF]

in the early game you were a lot more aggressive, explanatory and co-operative with us

I looked back and I actually agree. I disagree it's because of your claim that I lost a buddy. I think it's more of people voting me and me not having a clue as to why.

I know you were v/la but your posting was still quiet during the shotty lynch

I'm sorry, but this part is actually just ridiculous. "You were V/LA but you still didn't talk enough." I think me being V/LA had something to do with that?

[KuroiXHF]

I shot at Kuroi. He is the rolecop lynch him.
VOTE: KuroiHFX

I'm actually a vanillia townie. Maybe there are other reasons I'm alive. Good job, idiot.

[KuroiXHF]

Their is no reason for you to be alive unlesss MafiaDoc can save town and scum. And if he can I'm replacing out. So if you flip VT I'm replacing out just saying. Save your insults for someone with a smaller dick than you Kuroi.

Actually, I should be thanking you. I was ignoring you before because you really have nothing to add, and this lynch proves it. As far as your dick measuring insults? I've been called things by better people. I wasn't insulting you, either. I was describing you.

[KuroiXHF]

I didn't even fucking talk about your dick. Keep it in your pants, and off the boards. Take a tip: Find KainTepes and learn how to play Mafia from him, because he'll help you reach your potential.

Unless my idealism is taking over me and you've already reached it.

[KuroiXHF]

If I hammered its twilight and scum always trolls in twilight

Stop while you're [relatively] ahead. I have no reason to lie and I'm obviously proving you wrong.

Another tip: If you're heading toward a trainwreck, you may want to apply the brakes.