In post 3582, farside22 wrote: In post 3547, Reasonably Rational wrote:Mastin, you're wrong.
I don't care about the mechanical discussion. I care about the fact that discussions about evaluating and/or reevaluating our play yesterday, NOT TODAY (which has obviously been WHOLLY focused on defending ourselves, because I got drawn in and used up all the energy I would have spent doing something productive ) have all been stonewalled.
That's what I mean when I say there's no attempt being made to think.
-Cerb
This isn't happening.
What i mean is your not doing that at all.
What you've done is implode the game with how important your role is, who everyone should pay attention to the event and gave weak reason's for scum reads you have.
I even notice nc asked for you to explain more about grapes and you just avoid that.
This is also wrong.
We have repeatedly reminded people of aspects of our play which make us as scum nearly impossible. One major aspect of that is our interactions with regards to the SC wagon, and the other (which the majority of the game did not know the details about, and which thus had to be shared) was related to how we handled our role. At the time we decided to divulge our full information regarding our event to OWK mastin was known to be conftown, Yume was known to be sheeping her, you had displayed a great degree of doubt about us, and OWK would, by virtue of paranoia regarding our play with one another in the past, no doubt investigate us if given the opportunity. As scum, it would be suicidal to place oneself in a position where you can guarantee that you'll be checked by a cop that is viewed as conftown. It *might* make sense if we were a godfather, but even then the point of the ability is a selection from multiple options, all of which are bad for scum for different reasons. It would have been effortless for us to claim that the event had a different priority, or different stress limitations, which could have both been used to give scum!us the maximum town benefit of claiming this power without ever actually having to USE the power. Instead, we claimed that it was priority 0, only took +1 stress, AND that we'd be attempting to use it EVERY NIGHT so it would happen ASAP.
The stupidity on our part that would be required for us to engage in that sequence of events is why we keep bringing up the mechanical aspect, beyond the pragmatic factor of it being optimal to take a free cop clear and then lynch us that day if you're paranoid about the accuracy or your results, or cLear us thst night if you're not and give scum an additional conftown to have to deal with.
It isn't the event itself that makes us town. It's the fact that it makes no sense to have backed ourselves into a corner like this regarding it's usage.
Regarding the grapes thing: Answering NCs question required effort. Last night I simply didn't feel like looking at grapes ISO and pointing out the posts where he seems to be thinking things through but in a fashion which dismisses, ignores, or trivializes details which are significant.
You're right that all reasons for reads at this point are weak, but the reasons for scumreading us displayed here are FAR weaker, based on the knowledge of our play the main proponents should have and the actions we've taken, than anything we've said today. I hold that our reasons(and everyone else's) are weak because everything is fundamentally based off day 1 play alone, and thus all reasons are weak.
This comes back to the lack of rigor in investigating and verifying ones own suspicions while demanding greater degrees of justification from those who disagree with you that I made fun of grapes for.
McMenno: please read the above. Drixx has not suggested mastin is not town. Drixx has outlined the existence of a scenario in which mastin would not be town, and dismissed it as nearly impossible(thus the 99% thing). This is a far cry from saying "idk guys, this mastin Yume conftown mason thing is kinda shady and means they might both be scum.", which is what you're implying when you say Drixx has suggested that Mastin might be scum. Please learn to read our posts properly before you attempt to interpret them.
In addition, since you dismissed my absolutely correct point that people are reckless in mafia in the wake of success, let me expand on it: had SC flipped town, those who had disagreed would be haranguing those who pushed it and demanded that they reasses, while becoming more certain of their own reads accuracy. In addition, because there would have been no sense of "getting ahead" ,EVERYONE would have been more cautious voting out of fear of a consecutive mislynch and spent a great deal of time looking at interactions yesterday to determine who to "blame" for the mislynch. However, because SC flipped scum, those who were pushing him (which were the most forceful players in the game ) were emboldened and now assume all their reads are correct, and those who disagree with them are taking the time to reassess.
This means that those who were voting yesterday automatically voted us at the start of today, while those who have differing opinions are being more cautious and NOT voting for things....therefore leading us to this situation where only a few hours after the day opened NOTHING had been discussed but our slot, and nobody was voting anywhere else.
It's reckless and thoughtless. If we end up mislynched here with this approach to the game town will be going into D3 with a late D1 grasp of the game.
I predict that almost no one will bother reading this, and those who do, excepting OWK, will quote at most two things out of context to use against us.
I'll look at NC and grapes sometime today when I'm not feeling lazy.
-Cerb
mark to directly show what happened due to an Event from now on.