Newbie 1901 (Game Over!)
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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I have some experience, but it’s been awhile. I know the basic mechanics, but Flavor Leaf’s post did help as a refresherIn post 29, Flicker wrote:@2ndStoryWindow
@Emperor flippyNips
@Guten tag
How much experience do you have playing mafia?-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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- Posts: 143
- Joined: November 10, 2018
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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- Posts: 143
- Joined: November 10, 2018
As I mentioned in my previous post, I think FL and Vork are the scummiest at the moment. This post especially from Vork strikes me as scummy:In post 101, Bulbazoor wrote:Is everyone else asleep? Been a while since I did one of these readlists.
Emperor flippyNips
Vorkuta
2ndStoryWindow
muh316
Guten tag
I am here so far in terms of people I'd be happy with lynching. Guten needs to speak up. 2ndstory, so do you. I want to hear all of what you guys have to say.
Why is he trying to get us on the side of "random vote quick guys, we'll get info that way," even after he basically said that,In post 60, Vorkuta wrote:I stand by what I wrote. Unfortunately the probability (22%) of randomly catching scum on the first day is more than that (20%) of randomly guessing based on the bandwagon after someone flips green. I like my odds, and bulbasaur is responding quite selfishly and anti-towny. Almost even contrary to the town's win condition....
I used to say things like this as town or scum in my previous days of playing, but that's because I was a bad player. I'm not getting "bad player" vibes from Vork. He seems consistent in his behaviour.In post 56, Vorkuta wrote:As town, I would gladly accept the D-1 lynch as a necessary sacrifice and hope town can build a solid case based on any evidence that I've left behind while alive
All this said, you may ask why I voted FL instead of Vork. I feel like FL is the safer side to vote on. He's been extremely vocal, and I think we'll get more info from him potentially flipping green than we will if the same thing happens with Vork.
For the rest of the player-pool, I think muh's got my best townread at the moment. His posts feel genuine and he has a balanced mix of speculation to go along with his questions.
Similarly (but also not similar), I do not have a read on Flicker. Most of his posts have been questions, and I acknowledge the fact that he was trying to get conversation started, but still. They just don't seem town or scummy at the moment.
I'm placing a townread on Alonzo for now. More of a gut feeling that could easily change.
Bulbazoor: This one was probably the toughest, but I want to give him a townread. As muh stated, I like how he didn't back down when questioned, and he claims this to be his general playstyle, so I can't give a scumread based off of that.
To the remaining peoples, they have not posted enough for me to get anything off of them. IIRC this includes Emperor flippyNips and Guten tag. Hopefully I didn't leave anyone out.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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"Trying hard to stand out," yeah, I'll agree with that. But the very essence of you trying to stand out creates a loud voice that otherwise blends in with the crowd. Do you get what I'm saying?In post 103, Flavor Leaf wrote:
Im trying hard to blend in? Damn. I was trying hard to stand out. Feels bad.In post 96, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:I don’t like FL and Vork’s flattery. It feels as though they’re using it to buddy up. For now, my VOTE: Flavour Leaf lands here, primarily because it feels like he’s trying too hard to blend in.
If town accepts you and lets you lead, essentially you've blended in, even with such a loud voice. And it is that very loud voice that you would use to guide the town in the wrong direction and win the game for yourself as scum. That's why, at this moment, I'm perfectly happy placing my vote on you.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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I don’t see how this makes a case for me not wanting to lynch you. As town myself, this is literally an ideal scenario. If I’m wrong and you are town, we’ll get a lot of info. That’s fine, can’t always lynch scum on Day 1. If you are scum, I don’t quite mind the lack of info. We’d be one step closer to winning, and we’d have a few more days, as well as info from nightkills, to rely off of to catch your partner. Also, claiming you want to be alive is redundant; everyone wants to stay alive.In post 110, Flavor Leaf wrote:Also, you said I was the safer vote, while I disagree. Sure, a green flip does in fact help you a lot, and that’s what will happen, but I’d rather be alive right now. A red flip by me would give VERY little info. I’m a master of confusion as scum when I’m going down.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Also, sorry about that. I have a habit of defaulting to he/his since I’m a guy.In post 119, Flicker wrote:
Is this list in any particular order?In post 101, Bulbazoor wrote:Is everyone else asleep? Been a while since I did one of these readlists.
Emperor flippyNips
Vorkuta
2ndStoryWindow
muh316
Guten tag
I am here so far in terms of people I'd be happy with lynching. Guten needs to speak up. 2ndstory, so do you. I want to hear all of what you guys have to say.
*She/her, thanks.In post 105, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:Similarly (but also not similar), I do not have a read on Flicker. Most of his posts have been questions, and I acknowledge the fact that he was trying to get conversation started, but still. They just don't seem town or scummy at the moment.
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In terms of a reads list, this is where I am:
Emperor flippyNips - Jury's out for now.
Vorkuta - Scummiest so far. Not a strong scum vibe, but still.
2ndStoryWindow - Town lean for post 105. I also feel like his vote on Flavour Leaf might be a little IC-related paranioa, which is extremely relatable and more likely to be town IMO.
muh316 - Tentative, somewhat conflicted town lean. Kind of feels like his stances are too safe, like he's trying not to rock the boat or stand out, which feels vaguely scummy. But, I don't know if that's just paranoia because we agree on a lot.
Guten tag - Jury's out for now.
Alonzo - Don't like how he called out/shaded Vorkuta without voting there, but it's one little thing, and from following along with other games Alonzo's been in, he has a style I find hard to read. Null.
Bulbazoor - Towniest so far, for reasons I've already talked about.
Flavor Leaf - The last time I was worried someone was buddying/pocketing me, they turned out to be town. On the other hand, I think a little IC paranoia can be healthy. So, null?
Pedit: Okay, Flavor Leaf can be a scum lean for now. Something about his responses to 2ndStoryWindow feel off.
Pedit2:
Not sure why you said this. You basically just ruined any chance of seeing our actual reactions.Flavor Leaf wrote:Potential ScumFlicker or ScumMuh would benefit greatly from moving to my wagon. Let’s see what happens with them.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Why is me pushing bad? You’ve come across as one of the scummiest players so far.In post 128, Flavor Leaf wrote:Solid. Good to know you’re just pushing the idea and potential threat of me being scum more than anything else.
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Also,
Why do you wanna lead as town? What purpose does that serve? I’ve played that way before and it ends in me being wrong 9 times out of 10. Maybe you’re a better player, but I still don’t see why you need to play that way as town. Sure it’s fun to be in charge, but as town we have to work together with as much information as possible.In post 107, Flavor Leaf wrote:Why isn’t that townie? I’m trying to get town to accept me and let me lead. I’m town trying to win this game.
And I’ve stood out to you, Bulbazor, Alonzo, and Vorkuta in some fashion, so your point on me blending in because of that is flawed.
As town, I wanna lead. You’re pushing a reason, calling it scum, even when it’s NAI, or even more likely to make sense coming from a town side.
And before you say I’m trying to lead by pushing you, well I’ve got a scummy read and I’m sticking to it. Your entire basis is to try to lead because you want to lead. That seems scummy.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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How have I pocketed you?In post 131, Alonzo wrote:2sw hard pockets Alonzo...-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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I never said I’d think you’d come across as scummy if you’re scum. I said I think you’re trying too hard to come across as town, which is scummy.In post 134, Flavor Leaf wrote:
Why do you assume that as scum I would come across as scummy?In post 130, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:
Why is me pushing bad? You’ve come across as one of the scummiest players so far.In post 128, Flavor Leaf wrote:Solid. Good to know you’re just pushing the idea and potential threat of me being scum more than anything else.
Why isn’t it just my personality for you?
Because you’re wrong. I understand your case and logic. I’m just trying to see if I think you’re coming from a town or a scum mindset putting together a logical case on someone he thinks can be mislynchable.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Again, how is a gut read a pocket?In post 135, Alonzo wrote:With your obv town approach so far-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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How does it get you into trouble late game? It seems the opposite would be trueIn post 139, Flavor Leaf wrote:
I don't like coming across as town when I'm scum. It gets me into trouble late game.In post 137, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:
I never said I’d think you’d come across as scummy if you’re scum. I said I think you’re trying too hard to come across as town, which is scummy.In post 134, Flavor Leaf wrote:
Why do you assume that as scum I would come across as scummy?In post 130, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:
Why is me pushing bad? You’ve come across as one of the scummiest players so far.In post 128, Flavor Leaf wrote:Solid. Good to know you’re just pushing the idea and potential threat of me being scum more than anything else.
Why isn’t it just my personality for you?
Because you’re wrong. I understand your case and logic. I’m just trying to see if I think you’re coming from a town or a scum mindset putting together a logical case on someone he thinks can be mislynchable.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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That was quite the point: a scum flip is good regardless, even though FL claims we wouldn’t get much info if he flips red. I’m ok with sticking to my initial read. If he flips town, then he flips town. I’m not saying I want to lynch town, but realistically there is a good chance my read is wrong. In such a case, I feel as though we’d get a ton of info from his green flip, which, if we did end up lynching a townsperson, is the best thing we could hope for.In post 143, Bulbazoor wrote:
How would we be lacking info from a scum flip? Why is lynching town a good idea to you?In post 127, 2ndStoryWindow wrote: I don’t see how this makes a case for me not wanting to lynch you. As town myself, this is literally an ideal scenario. If I’m wrong and you are town, we’ll get a lot of info. That’s fine, can’t always lynch scum on Day 1. If you are scum, I don’t quite mind the lack of info. We’d be one step closer to winning, and we’d have a few more days, as well as info from nightkills, to rely off of to catch your partner.Also, claiming you want to be alive is redundant; everyone wants to stay alive.
For the bolded part, my first thought was "wasn't this the guy that was trying to be town hero by saying he'd let himself die?" That post did not sound like you wanting to be alive.
Ok, moving on to the next few new posts. Sorry, just felt the need to point out the bad logic behind this post right here.
As someone else pointed out, you’re referring to the wrong guy when you claim I was the one who wanted to be a town hero by letting himself die.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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This vote, even as an OMGUS, seems so random and misplaced it’s nearly comical
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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You still haven’t offered your read on meIn post 180, Emperor flippyNips wrote:
Ahh you’re right I did forget about him whoops. I don’t have any particular reason for holding onto the voteIn post 158, Flicker wrote:
I think you missed 2ndStoryWindow; what's your read on him?In post 146, Emperor flippyNips wrote:So far
bulba: is a little suspect to me
vorkuta: is also slightly suspect but I feel like that could be a miss read
Tag: hasn’t said enough for me to really gain an opinion on them so by them just sitting idle could be scum could be busy
Flicker: I’m getting townie vibes from
same for: muh, Alanzo
And as for flavor he has scum written all over him
Now that you're starting to make reads, why are you still holding on to your RVS vote?-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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That masterpiece of yours. We’re still waiting on it.
And by masterpiece I mean reads on the entire playerbase please-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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That doesn't change the fact that your vote on him was badIn post 215, Vorkuta wrote:
Apparently not anymore- he's at L-2 nowIn post 189, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:This vote, even as an OMGUS, seems so random and misplaced it’s nearly comical-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Yes, actually. muh's my best townread. Sure, I'll disagree with his doubt in regards to the doc claim - I for one hopped on the believer's train because he's a noob. But other than that, he's done nothing scummy in my eyes so far.In post 231, Vorkuta wrote:Ok then please indulge me- why bad? Has he done stuff to deserve insane townie points in your eyes?
(If you want my honest opinion, I want Guten replaced because we've asked him repeatedly to give his reads and he decides to pop in and make extremely short posts instead. Regardless, I'd rather not go for him today, for two reasons: I've already expressed my belief in his claim; and, I'd rather let him lurk long enough to get replaced so I actually have a chance to read the slot. When he doesn't post, paired with being new, I see no reason to jump to any reads whatsoever. It's extremely annoying, but yeah.)-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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(IF YOU'RE ALLOWED, because I don't know if you are) Can you link me to this game?In post 244, Vorkuta wrote:
Just like last game- townFL establishes town cred early on then backs off and kind of lurks for the remainder of D1 before the deadlineIn post 242, Alonzo wrote:Flavour still isn't posting much....-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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In post 249, Vorkuta wrote:-> Activity Overview, FL = 51 Posts: He has double your posts lol
So is this your last ditch attempt to get the wagon off you? By trying to shift focus away from you and to policy lynch lurkers?
This screams scummy to me
Can you explain the second post better? Because from where I'm sitting these posts seem so much like you're hopping on a bandwagon.In post 250, Vorkuta wrote:I have a readlist written up, I just want more evidence (posts ) to solidify my position on a few people.
Maybe this will help
VOTE: Emperor-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Now that I'm done replying to quotes, here's my two cents:
I'm sticking with my vote on Flavor for now. I'd also be up for a Vorkuta lynch if that's what people want, because as I've mentioned previously, he's my other scumread.
Flicker gives off a really weird vibe. I had him as town as first, but... I don't know. It's not a super strong read, and it's possible I'm being easily fooled by him. If push comes to shove, I'd vote for him as well.
I'm pretty strongly against lynching anybody else today, unless someone can give me a solid reason by the deadline.
I plan on remaining active throughout the weekend, and I encourage you all to check in as much as possible since the deadline looms. However, I wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving! Eat turkey, get stuffed, and enjoy time with family and watching football.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Can you explain this better? A prime example of my weird vibes on you. From the surface, this seems pretty town; you state your, what I perceive as, genuine opinion and, contrary to how others may view this, hold off on starting a bandwagon due to the holidays. Hey, for the millionth time, I find Vorkuta scummy and I’d follow you on that wagon, and I feel like strong town should push their reads a bit, but it doesn’t seem like Flicker’s holding off in order to evade suspicion.In post 279, Flicker wrote:Hey, no fair prodding me while I'm asleep!
So, Guten claims doc and Emperor claims VT, both of which I'm inclined to believe for now (Guten just for the possible utility, Emperor based on my read of him as fairly genuine and not scummy). I think maybe we can afford one more claim? After that, I feel like we should just lynch in the claims for sure.
I kind of want to restart the Vorkuta wagon, but I'll stay where I am given the holiday and time constraints.
However, why are you asking for a claim? Not that it’s necessarily scummy to do so, but the way you worded it, “I think we can afford one more claim.”
This late in the day I think it’s best we avoid claims and stick with what we’ve got - for better or for worse.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Why is lynching without a claim worse? Why do you expect someone to claim at L-1?In post 287, Flicker wrote:I'm not asking for a claim from anyone (yet); I'm saying that we could probably afford push one more person to L-1 and get their claim, if we wanted, but no more. Otherwise, I think we'd just have to lynch between Guten and Emperor (which I'd prefer not to do), or I guess lynch without asking for a claim (which seems like even worse form than claiming early, IMO).
(I'll come back and address the other stuff in your post later, I have holidaying to do.)
Here’s the reason why it’s bad: let’s assume two things, that there is a doctor in this game and Guten tag is not it. (This is hypothetical for the purpose of an example.) Let’s say I was the doc, and I was put at L-1 and expected to claim. I’m now put into an unfavorable position for the entire town. Either claim doc and run the risk of getting NKed tonight, or lie that I’m a townie and - while I may save myself as a doc - I can no longer counterclaim late game if need be, and/or I’ve lost a bit of credibility if it comes out I lied. Yeah, lying seems not that big of a deal if played well, but I’d rather not be put in, nor put someone else in, that position.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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I meant save myself as in not being almost guaranteed to die overnight.In post 306, Flicker wrote:
It's strong site meta, and generally a good idea, to ask for a claim before you place a hammer vote, in case you've run up a PR. The only time you maybe wouldn't ask for a claim is if there are no PRs (either because it's an all vanilla game or they're already dead) or if there's a specific setup reason that makes claiming useless (example: Watchmen Wanted).In post 288, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:Why is lynching without a claim worse? Why do you expect someone to claim at L-1?
I expect town to claim truthfully because it helps the other townies (especially the one who wants to hammer) figure out if they still want to lynch them and lying is generally bad for town.
If there was a non-Guten doc out there, I'd expect them to have already counterclaimed, because 1) trading a PR for scum is a pretty good deal and 2) doctor's not the strongest PR (relies on being able to guess who scum will kill, which to some extent relies on knowing who scum are). Also, FYI doctors can't target themselves at night (assuming that's what you mean by "while I may save myself as a doc").In post 288, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:Here’s the reason why it’s bad: let’s assume two things, that there is a doctor in this game and Guten tag is not it. (This is hypothetical for the purpose of an example.) Let’s say I was the doc, and I was put at L-1 and expected to claim. I’m now put into an unfavorable position for the entire town. Either claim doc and run the risk of getting NKed tonight, or lie that I’m a townie and - while I may save myself as a doc - I can no longer counterclaim late game if need be, and/or I’ve lost a bit of credibility if it comes out I lied. Yeah, lying seems not that big of a deal if played well, but I’d rather not be put in, nor put someone else in, that position.
For reference, my comment about getting one more claim stems from this comment by the IC of my last Newbie game:
In post 1163, nancy wrote:Yeah, I was thinking about this earlier, and was like, I really don't want to push in too many more places today because I don't want to risk outing a PR, but um, that's not a real reason not to just lynch someone because they claimed VT. You lynch who you think has the highest chance of flipping mafia. Generally speaking you don't want to sacrifice dayplay for night play.
There's a limit to this, like if you run 3 people up near the end of a dayphase and don't like how the lynch felt on any of them, and they all claimed, you probably want to be super super super certain that someone out those 3 is mafia, or super super certain that all 3 of them are town, before you push another person to claim. At that point it's probably optimal to just lynch inside the slots that have claimed.
I guess I agree with asking someone to claim. It's just that, all but 1 person (maybe 0 if we don't have another PR) will pretty much claim VT. And while I definitely don't want to lynch our 2nd PR by not making them claim... I don't want both of our PRs to be outed on Day 1, either. Idk man. I definitely don't want to lynch between Guten and Emperor today, though.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Because it gives scum an idea of who is being protected so it defeats the purpose of a protective role. Mafia will just NK someone else.In post 315, Vorkuta wrote:I'm fishing/digging for information.
Like for instance: the fact that you'd rather hang me than ask for me to be investigated.
Now that everyone's reads are in, I'm interested in knowing who people want saved/investigated.
You realize that the PRs aren't obligated to listen to you, or aren't obligated to explicitly say who they will be acting on in the night.
So ok- I'll play the 'I'm a newbie, this is only my 2nd game onsite'- now please kindly explain why what I wrote above is invalid and how is it compromising?-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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I actually like this post a lot. Finally you seem fully dedicated to advancing the game and explaining your actions. Enough so that I want to do a 180 and trust you. Hope you’re right. Btw my life tomorrow depends on muh’s flip.In post 333, Vorkuta wrote:Aight: please remember this for when I flip green
Town-
FL: because I pocketed him- also because he's acting almost in the same way as he did last game as town. Also he has was killed N-1 last game so I'd like it if he made it to D2))
Alonzo & Flicker: their buddying in posts #212-#214 coupled with a desire to get somewhere in the game and their suspicion of me seem town. I'd be distrustful on anyone who doesn't suspect me playing so scummily. Real scum would want to keep me alive early on and use me as a scape goat later in the game. Also my gut says that scum won't buddy in public this early on. However the Alonzo 'turbo' request was slightly problematic- like he's fine with lynching LITERALLY ANYBODY asap instead of even considering a replacement.
Probably town, but distrustful-
Bulba: he's made it obvious from very early on that he distrusts town and it feels like he's very trigger happy. His arguing with me early on scored solid town points with me, but it seems like town bulba is scummy and defensive in nature
Claimed Doctor, so it will resolve itself later-
Hmm- where is our masterpiece?
Scumleans-
Emperor Flippy: Maybe the guy is probably shy, but seems really eager to stay out of the limelight. Given that the guy claims to have IRL mafia experience, I really think town flippy wouod be acting differently.
2ndstorywindow: The way he posts feel like he's trying really hard to get the 'Look at me' I'm so town' sentiment going. Also calling my OMGUS vote misplaced feels like he's trying to cover for his mafia buddy (coming right up
Scummier than scumlean-
Muh: the OMGUS vote wasn't really an OMGUS vote. I'm glad bulba and flicker have similar suspicions and put them in words.
(Inb4 you guys accuse me of only saying this because the bandwagon is rolling)
Now for the speculation bits- my gut tells me that Either
-muh trying to push Emperor is bussing OR
-2ndstory is trying to protect muh.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: muh
See you on the other side ladies and gents.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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I’m not saying it was the best play - it was definitely risky. However, if he took his vote off you I feared with the inactivity we wouldn’t reach a lynch today. I didn’t wanna lynch you and I made that pretty clear. I let my fear of a no-lynch overcome that and maybe I was fooled by Vorkuta. But I also got a strong townread out of his post and if he’s town I think Flavor’s town. I decided to trust them and go against my own better judgement.
I’m gonna be the hot target tomorrow. Hopefully the rest of you see how my townread on muh was correct and I wasn’t protecting him. Throughout the night stage I’ll be doing a reread of the thread and examining everybody, especially those on muh’s wagon. I’m not scum.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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I know it’s quite my own fault, but I’m eager for resident to start posting so I can start reading the slot. Can you give us a reads list please?
Otherwise, what an interesting NK. I agree with Flicker, the doc claim could very likely be fake now, but I also don’t wanna jump on that train until we get some posts from resident.
We’re down to 5v2. We basically cannot afford a mislynch today, given our chances to win go way down. Unlike yesterday, I’m up for a no-lynch today if we can’t come to a consensus.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Also, as a preliminary reads list for D2: I think scum lie in the realm of {Bulba, Flicker, Emperor, Alonzo}, and I’m giving Flavor a solid townread for now. While I did say above the doc claim could be fake, there’s also me that thinks the slot just isn’t scum. However, even as ‘useless’ as the slot may be, I see no reason (other than the slot being scum) why Guten/resident wasn’t NKed. It would have been a pretty obvious NK, yeah, but it’s an extremely safe one. We get little to no information out of a GT/resident lynch because of the lack of activity, unlike Vorkuta...
While this may be a bit of a reach, I would also like to point out that IF GT/resident happens to be scum, it is entirely possible their partner had to decide for themselves who to kill N1, IF resident hadn’t checked in yet. Pure speculation, but keep that in mind.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Also, from my reread of the thread (this WILL be multiple posts. Sorry!):
I don’t like this postnat all. It nags me and Bulba is reaching hardIn post 37, Bulbazoor wrote:Voting someone for not confirming seems like setting up for a later push on them solely for not confirming early. Guten sounds pretty genuine so far to me. And look at how Flavor tried to vote me for me voting him. It wasn't a forced and weak push. It was an attempt to gouge your reactions and so far you aren't reacting well. Rapidly anger-voting me when I call you out is not a good thing to do. You got defensive as soon as I started attempting to pressure you.
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Can you please find this game and link it?In post 42, Flavor Leaf wrote:I was your scum buddy in one of your first scum games on site, If I remember correctly. Haven’t played with you in years.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Flicker why does/did this seem towny?In post 44, Flicker wrote:
These stances areIn post 37, Bulbazoor wrote:Voting someone for not confirming seems like setting up for a later push on them solely for not confirming early. Guten sounds pretty genuine so far to me. And look at how Flavor tried to vote me for me voting him. It wasn't a forced and weak push. It was an attempt to gouge your reactions and so far you aren't reacting well. Rapidly anger-voting me when I call you out is not a good thing to do. You got defensive as soon as I started attempting to pressure you.
suchreaches, but they strike me as slightly towny, given the game state. I think scum are more likely to be sitting back now, and you stuck your neck out, so alright.
As to why I think those are reaches:- - Guten literally has 5 words and a vote so far, and two of those words are apologies to the moderator. I don't think you can read genuineness or non-genuiness from those, but even then those seem pretty NAI.
- Have you considered the possibility that Flavor Leaf's vote on you was also a reaction test? It didn't come across as angry or defensive to me at all.
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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This post reaks of scum. “If it was on someone I townread,” in response to “would you say the same if either of their wagons were at L-1?” So Bulba, you’re telling me, a few real life days into the game, fresh out of RVS, you’d only defend your townreads from a quick-lynch? That’s ridiculous unless you’re scum. Firstly, no way you have strong scumreads by then; and secondly, no one should be quick-lynched. Like almost never. But especially not D1.In post 55, Bulbazoor wrote:yes. if it was on someone I townread. BUt for me, it's natural to get defensive because I know I am town.-
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But there was no way town would quick-lynch you D1. Why were you getting so worked up? inb4 “Because I hate being lynched” well duh, but come on man, we were barely out of RVSIn post 57, Bulbazoor wrote:I don't know if I trust town if they were willing to lynch me as town. It's a part of me to hate being lynched in any case-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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In post 63, Flavor Leaf wrote:UNVOTE: Bulbazor
Because he said basically "Well SOMEONE has to unvote me because I'm town! Come on, please..."
Not gonna lie, I really felt the genuine ness of it. Is that a solid reason to town read someone? I'm going to say yes. Haha.
Why were/are you so sure he’s town?In post 67, Flavor Leaf wrote:You should like it, Bulba. We're both town.-
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To this day I have a problem with this post. Later on you say it’s because you townread me. Why not just say thatin the first place? Me pocketing you is not the same as you townreading me, so I just don’t get it. We had little interaction beforehand, but somehow I ‘pocketed’ you. OkIn post 131, Alonzo wrote:2sw hard pockets Alonzo...-
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Ok and I’m not gonna insinuate you’re perfect, plus it was a D1 lynch, but your choice to vote for muh was terrible. As was mine, but I’m not going around saying I have an ability to catch scum early. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, I was the only one with an ACTUAL townread on muh before I took a chance. Sucks to suck at a game you loveIn post 150, Flavor Leaf wrote:
Late game if I'm town read heavily, have the people on my side, and haven't found scum yet, I'm probably scum. I generally get night killed in those situations or I end up finding at least one scum rather early.In post 141, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:
How does it get you into trouble late game? It seems the opposite would be trueIn post 139, Flavor Leaf wrote:
I don't like coming across as town when I'm scum. It gets me into trouble late game.In post 137, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:
I never said I’d think you’d come across as scummy if you’re scum. I said I think you’re trying too hard to come across as town, which is scummy.In post 134, Flavor Leaf wrote:
Why do you assume that as scum I would come across as scummy?In post 130, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:
Why is me pushing bad? You’ve come across as one of the scummiest players so far.In post 128, Flavor Leaf wrote:Solid. Good to know you’re just pushing the idea and potential threat of me being scum more than anything else.
Why isn’t it just my personality for you?
Because you’re wrong. I understand your case and logic. I’m just trying to see if I think you’re coming from a town or a scum mindset putting together a logical case on someone he thinks can be mislynchable.
This is why in 13p games, I generally have to go for a perfect scum victory, because that's where my strengths lie as a scum player the most. When I have a team to back me up while I lead.-
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Stuff like this is why I wanted you lynched, regardless. I’m still reading through and responding, also Thanksgiving was a thing, but you contributed little to nothing late yesterday, save for your final vote. I asked you for a reads list and you didn’t provide one. Please give one now.In post 155, Flavor Leaf wrote:I kind of just play, and that’s generally the stuff that gets talked about my play from others.
I was confusing on that one part, you’re right.
Generally, I’ve had players state that if I haven’t solved the game by day 3/4 without good reason, I’m probably scum controlling the game.
I get night killed a lot even when I’m coming across as scummy, if that makes sense. I’m generally a hard lynch, and if players who know me are on the scum team, that’s why i’d be night killed.
I think i worded it better here-
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Trash post, but I’m not sure what to take from itIn post 160, Alonzo wrote:Can we just turbo GT?-
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Seems like buddying, especially since Guten never told us his “story”In post 169, Alonzo wrote:=) I like this guy already-
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Emperor never did answer this (or more specifically the ask for the ask for a counterclaim), even if it would just be to say noIn post 197, Flavor Leaf wrote:@Flippy - if you’re a doctor, you can counterclaim Guten. If you aren’t a doctor, just say you aren’t counterclaiming him.-
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Why didn’t you just read the thread? I’ve no idea what goes on in your real life, but it doesn’t take that long to scroll up and just look for Guten’s name if you’re pressed for timeIn post 240, Flavor Leaf wrote:Had a busy day. Has Guten tag given us the trilogy?-
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With Vorkuta being town and having played with FL recently, I have to trust things like this. That’s basically why he’s a townread for meIn post 244, Vorkuta wrote:
Just like last game- townFL establishes town cred early on then backs off and kind of lurks for the remainder of D1 before the deadlineIn post 242, Alonzo wrote:Flavour still isn't posting much....-
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Kinda wanna place a vote on Emperor just cause muh had suspicion for him. Alas, it’s not good enough at the moment. I’ll be placing my vote on someone else momentarily when I’m done respondingIn post 251, muh316 wrote:
Which is why I said he'sIn post 249, Vorkuta wrote:-> Activity Overview, FL = 51 Posts: He has double your posts lol
So is this your last ditch attempt to get the wagon off you? By trying to shift focus away from you and to policy lynch lurkers?
This screams scummy to meactivelurking. "Active Lurking, also referred to as Fluffposting or Fillering, is the act of posting (thus differentiating it from ordinary Lurking), but the material posted is irrelevant or otherwise useless for scumhunting"
But anyway, I don't want to lynch FL today because he seems like he can be valuable in the long run given his reputation on this site. On the other hand, Emperor is not just inactive, but just scummy overall. No strong opinons, lurking, and staying away from the limelight are major scumtells in my book. He's not just a policy lynch.
Sure, I want to get the wagon off of me and find the real scum especially because the deadline is so close.-
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I held off on responding to this when it came up (mainly because Alonzo asked for a reason he’s scummier than Vorkuta, Bulba replied saying Vorkuta was scummy too, and at the time I wanted Vorkuta lynched), so call me a hypocrite for doing it now, but-In post 297, Bulbazoor wrote:I want a good logical reason on why muh is town
All of muh’s posts were genuine. If you didn’t see it then, I implore you to reread the thread and convince yourself otherwise. The fact that muh was my sure-fire townread and you’ve been pushing him all game earn you my vote.
VOTE: Bulba-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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You weren’t opposed to lynching Guten but hope his replacement says something. How will he/she do that if Guten gets lynched?In post 325, Flicker wrote:R.I.P. this game, killed by Thanksgiving.
Since I won't have much chance to post tomorrow, I'll just say that I'm not as opposed to lynching between Guten and Emperor as I was yesterday. Hopefully we get a replacement for Guten who does something, and Emperor can do something more than just asking about abbreviations (hint: voting), and we can get a lynch today and get back on track D2.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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Why would you lynch Emperor for being useless? I mentioned this above; we can’t afford a mislynch or our chances of winning drop considerably.In post 348, Flicker wrote:
WIFOM or scum, I think. WIFOM, because it was a near-useless slot that claimed in a possibly suspicious way. Scum, because it's a fake claim.In post 347, Bulbazoor wrote:Ok guys. Why wasn't doc claim killed?
At the moment, I'm tempted to lynch Emperor for being kind of useless, especially as the day progressed. But, like I said, I want to reread the thread, and see if I can find any associatives between pairs.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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This isn’t alone scummy, but the fact I already find you scummy just makes me think this is you trying to deflect suspicionIn post 350, Bulbazoor wrote:Why was vorkuta nked. Wasn't he the other bw that I didn't want to join?-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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This remains *mostly* accurate as of my responses. (This is also my last post of the tirade, btw.)In post 354, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:Also, as a preliminary reads list for D2: I think scum lie in the realm of {Bulba, Flicker, Emperor, Alonzo}, and I’m giving Flavor a solid townread for now. While I did say above the doc claim could be fake, there’s also me that thinks the slot just isn’t scum. However, even as ‘useless’ as the slot may be, I see no reason (other than the slot being scum) why Guten/resident wasn’t NKed. It would have been a pretty obvious NK, yeah, but it’s an extremely safe one. We get little to no information out of a GT/resident lynch because of the lack of activity, unlike Vorkuta...
While this may be a bit of a reach, I would also like to point out that IF GT/resident happens to be scum, it is entirely possible their partner had to decide for themselves who to kill N1, IF resident hadn’t checked in yet. Pure speculation, but keep that in mind.
Honestly, the only thing I would change is my read on Alonzo. Most of his posts are very town to me, except a select few, such as the turbo lynch post. After responding to so many posts and getting a strong read like that on him, I truly forget why I placed him on my scumread list in the first place.
That leaves {Bulba, Flicker, Emperor}. As I’ve done, I remain content with voting Bulba. He’s my best scumread.
Can the rest of you also give your full reads list and let everyone know who you’d be content lynching today with the information we have? Thanks-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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It’s not a lot, but here’s something. Other than that, I don’t know what you want me to say. Nearly all of his posts seem like he wants to further the game, he was - unfairly - pushed for illegitimate reasons, such as: posting too much fluff (by Flicker), your line where you say muh doubting the doc claim is suspicious, and whoever said his “tone” was scummy.In post 270, 2ndStoryWindow wrote:
Yes, actually. muh's my best townread. Sure, I'll disagree with his doubt in regards to the doc claim - I for one hopped on the believer's train because he's a noob. But other than that, he's done nothing scummy in my eyes so far.In post 231, Vorkuta wrote:Ok then please indulge me- why bad? Has he done stuff to deserve insane townie points in your eyes?
(If you want my honest opinion, I want Guten replaced because we've asked him repeatedly to give his reads and he decides to pop in and make extremely short posts instead. Regardless, I'd rather not go for him today, for two reasons: I've already expressed my belief in his claim; and, I'd rather let him lurk long enough to get replaced so I actually have a chance to read the slot. When he doesn't post, paired with being new, I see no reason to jump to any reads whatsoever. It's extremely annoying, but yeah.)
Hey man, I hammered the dude. I can’t honestly say there isn’t a bit of hindsight. My logic stems from the idea that was my hammer was terrible as and for town, and that my original read, which I should have stuck with, was correct. Therefore anyone who doubted him before the aforementioned lynch is suspicious in my eyes.-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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But I can assume you’re scum for repeatedly pushing him when he didn’t do anything scummy...In post 380, Bulbazoor wrote:You can't assume he was a universal townread or something-
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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2ndStoryWindow Goon
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