White Flag - TM2020
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I just told my team to not give me the open and this is how things turned outIn post 9, gobbledygook wrote:@everyone, why did everyone choose this game?"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I'm not in that direction either.In post 49, Dannflor wrote:
I would sort of expect this kind of comment to be accompanied by a vote, is there a reason it's not?In post 47, Cephrir wrote:When I saw how active FF was being I thought I would have a townread on him by the time I caught up, but I don't!
I thought he was focusing on some stuff that doesnt matter, but some posts are hitting near the right notes too. Also one of my teammates thinks he's just town!"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i think your response is a lame excuse
"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I'm no meta warrior, don't worry. But I'd be concerned about this feeling from any player, and I'm more bothered by a response that's kind of irrelevant to the question I asked than any of the behavior itself. I don't see why trying not to post too much would decrease the quality of the posts you *have* made. If anything, shouldn't there be more heart to them?In post 74, gobbledygook wrote:I do find it interesting that Cephrir seems to imply he has some sort of meta feel for me when we have played together at the same time in 0 completed games as far as I can remember
I don't think this is a huge deal or anything, just a way of getting into the swing of things."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Sure.In post 76, gobbledygook wrote:
Yeah explain the basis for this commentIn post 60, Cephrir wrote:Turkey why are you made of wood this game
This post had a great opportunity to be funny. It just falls on its face instead.In post 8, gobbledygook wrote:Subject: Team Mafia 2020 Announcement
Only scum make posts like thatHopkirk wrote:Ok, this is getting scary. I've made about a dozen posts in the last hour or so as I connected the dots and the mods have removed or edited all my posts except the ones that make me sound like a raving conspiracy theorist. The clues are all there, look at page one:
In post 0, Untrod Tripod wrote:Announcing Team Mafia 2020
Thisvent will begin on January 2nd, 2020. This gives everyone amele time to get teampsogtther and for those who wish to partecipate to wiid down their current commitments.n
Team Mafia is a siteide event spwnning five gamea. Teams of four players will be given the opportunity to choose four out of the five gases tmbe placeoin, and will wordtogether to wkn their chosen games. Scoring, based on whether or not your team was in winning games, wiidlltermine the overall winners of the event. The winning team will receive a banner for their accounts that will beeisplayed until the next Team Mafia event or the next Scummies, whichever comes first. The tentative plan for the five games will bed
1. A large theme, run by Lizard people
2. A mini theme, run by the Illuminati
3. A mini normal, run by The Masons (fuck masons)
4. A white flag open, run by Lizard people
5. Assassinations of anyone who worked out what we're really up to, run by Micc
I'm put off by your use of unnecessary big words, which I'm not aware of being characteristic of you, and focusing on theory out the gate is never my favorite thingIn post 18, gobbledygook wrote:
I might be wrong but I thought the EV and actual win rate were vastly disproportionate and not in town’s favor. But you’re right I should look to see how often Tm towns win white flag rather than just generic white flags.In post 17, KittyMo wrote:
I mean, apparently the random lynch EV is almost 48%. I suspect the team aspect can fix some of the issues that cause towns to do worse in practice.In post 11, gobbledygook wrote:
I didn't I wanted to be in the other open game, but I think I was too heavy handed my own personal blacklist and bob got pushed into it instead
I specifically didn't want this game because it is particularly difficult to win as town
This post sounds like a robot wrote it.In post 55, gobbledygook wrote:
Well it speaks to the type of person you are generally which is what I want to explore. It is helpful for me to know what type of people I am dealing with since I haven’t played with many of you.In post 50, Auro wrote:How does the answer to "Why White Flag?" give any useful information? The reasons would have been established prior, and there's no picking games after role assignments anyway.
Do you think it is a bad idea to try and introduce discussion into the game?
I think this line of questioning is lameIn post 59, gobbledygook wrote:
I feel like you want some grand explanation when in reality it’s not that grand at all. Do you think there is scum motivation for asking that question?In post 57, Auro wrote:
It's perfectly fine to introduce a discussion point, but why not just explain that at the beginning?In post 13, gobbledygook wrote:
I will reveal this once everyone has answeredIn post 12, Dannflor wrote:Why did you ask that question?
What have you learnt from the responses?"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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More or lessIn post 83, gobbledygook wrote:Big words? You mean like particularly, disproportionate, and generic?
Particularly is a lovely fluffy word that sounds smart and doesn't mean much of anything"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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first time i've been accused of opportunism for voting on something that was not even a wagon at the timeIn post 98, gobbledygook wrote:
I'm just tired of being the day 1 lynch. It's been like 6 games now and its uber frustrating because I would say I am above 60% for catching scum but it doesn't matter people just do not understand me and kill me.In post 96, Dannflor wrote:My only problem is the amount of defensiveness you've shown gobble, and why you've jumped so quickly to Cephrir making a bad faith read on your slot. I get it if you don't think your posting has been bad at all (which is a purely subjective thing), but do you at least see why Auro/me would interpret your question as empty? Also, do you have any reads beyond Cephrir at this point?
I honestly do not know what to make of you. I can't tell if Cephrir was being opportunistic by voting me first while you and Auro were pretty openly probing me with skeptical sounding questions or if you guys are town for not voting me despite the tone of your posts implying that you want to"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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would it?In post 113, Auro wrote:
It would massively help (given you have the time) if you could retrieve those ISOs and try to nail down what exactly made him come off as towny/boring in his respective games, general reads on him, and establish if that's a recurrent pattern in others.In post 109, Cephrir wrote:so i've played two games with you, and i thought you looked really town when you were scum and were boring and just kind of there when you were town. is this a pattern, or is it just me?
for one thing it's entirely reasonable people might play differently in team mafia.
for another, it's 2 games of meta and thus not worth much. hell, infinity games of meta isn't worth much.
furthermore, this game has hardly started and i can't imagine painting a picture of exactly my perception of a player right now to be helpful in catching them. for example, one time i replaced into a game and started walling with strong opinions, someone pointed out my scum meta of walling with strong opinions after a replace in, i changed my posts for the rest of the game to be shorter and wishy washy and took free townreads to the bank"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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idk how close i'm allowed to stray towards quoting but the basic idea was 'this is just someone who's town and trying to win' and it's probably fair enough to say that sometimes a stick is just a stickIn post 116, Dannflor wrote:I feel those two games were outliers. More often than not—if you'll allow me to brag for a moment—I'm pretty good at obv-towning as town. You can see my recent Micros in Penguin Mafia III and Forest Fire for proof, although I know you're not too much of a meta guy.
That town game in particular is one of my worst town games in recent history and I'm not super proud of it. Overall, I think my scum game is more wooden and static than my town game but asikdfodfjsofijdsferhauihjnrskdf
Let's stop talking about meta
Can you elaborate on where FF is hitting near the right notes for you? Or even why your teammate is town reading FF would be helpful. He's a slot I keep coming back to and can't make up my mind about.
i just reskimmed him and liked it more than i did the first time, and i think he's not afraid to make waves and that's good"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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yes, i did not feel like voting you anymore. is that scummy?In post 125, gobbledygook wrote:VOTE: Hopkirk
I just don't get why you had to vote him to talk to him? Dann seems pretty capable of talking without needing to be pressured with a vote. It looked like you were trying to get away from the situation"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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ur an alt?In post 134, gobbledygook wrote:I am traditionally ate but I try to limit it as the turkey"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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NopeIn post 156, Dunnstral wrote:Do you have any experience playing with auro?"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I don't really think this is reasonable. Why isn't dunnstral allowed to have a different read from yours? I'm sure it's not a sinister scum tactic to go look at these meta games and pretend to arrive at a different conclusion.In post 169, Auro wrote:Minus points to Dunn for continuing to push there."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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@Auro: I have a light scumread on you and that's it. This doesn't worry me right now because several players are not posting, and it's not unusual for me to take a while to develop reads I feel good about.
Sorry you don't like my posting style. How does that make me scum?In post 189, Donempire wrote:Dont want to come off like im parroting gooble but cephrir sucks man. Most of his posts are quick one liners that you cant say much to and he seems afraid to engage properly, especially 81 is awful. I'm fine with placing my vote there but i want to clear my mind on former first because this doesnt play like his towngame."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Funny, I can't find that in his post at all. Maybe you're making it up.In post 195, Auro wrote:
I think he means you don't appear to be engaging with people in the spirit of solving the game.In post 193, Cephrir wrote:Sorry you don't like my posting style. How does that make me scum?
I don't think there's anything especially generic about my opinions. It's a fun word to throw at me though! Yes I have switched twice. Wow what a strong pattern I guess this must be the only thing I'll ever do.Your posts seem to have the following pattern: {Make an attack, generic stance, generic stance, unexplained vote switch}.
I haven't engaged gobble? Or dann, if not at length? What universe do you live in?Your attacks themselves aren't all that impressive, and I don't see any effort made intoengagingwith players to find out more about them.
Maybe it's your style, but scummy nonetheless.
Do you disagree?
I don't really do extended 1v1s if I can help it. I don't typically find that to be useful. I also have a tendency to glaze over long posts and stop processing them at some point, and this game has a lot of those.
Of course I disagree. Even if this was the extent of my style (it isn't), styles cannot be scummy. That's why they're called style, not alignment indicative information."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Meh.In post 209, Dunnstral wrote:This is why people are saying you're ignoring engagement, by the way
I don't want to spend pages 1v1ing someone because they think my playstyle is scummy, nor do I want to increase apathy by making everyone else read that."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I neither have nor need any.In post 219, Auro wrote:
More details on why your teammates suspect me, pl0x?In post 208, Cephrir wrote:My team is supporting me on the Auro suspicion"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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What makes you think I didnt notice that?In post 229, Hopkirk wrote:Feels like he should have noticed I'd posted as 4 different people there quite visibly. I don't get why he'd go into depth on Gobbles when it also feels like he either didn't iso me, or is acting confused to avoid stuff. This is a question btw Ceph, I'll let you decide which bit is the question.
I thought elements had written that post for you."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I didnt respond because I didnt have any objections- dann is probably right that some of this is just FF being FF, but I still like him for town anyway.In post 230, Hopkirk wrote:I don't think Ceph followed up, and it felt immediately obvious to me that FF was going to be pretty abrasive personality/playwise from tone and it feels really odd to assume that being like that here was atypical play from him.
@Ceph"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I don't think much from you has struck me too strongly either way. I wasnt in love with at least one post about gobbles and myself, but it's not terribly significant. I'm still collecting data.In post 250, Dannflor wrote:@Cephrir, you mentioned thinking I was towny as scum and scummy as town. Does that mean you think I'm "towny" this game? What are your feelings on me now/have they changed since you were voting me?"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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None in particular. I suppose not thinking things are worth commenting on is becoming a trend for me this game.In post 306, Hopkirk wrote:That's reasonable/explains why you didn't comment on it when going through Gobble. Any reason you didn't comment on it afterwards or is it just something you didn't feel it was worth commenting on? Out of interest more than anything, how did you feel about our team when you thought that's how each of us were going to be posting?
I just thought you were doing a fun thing to make the game more fun. I don't think doing a bit is alignment indicative on its own, though how it develops could be."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I am active.In post 313, Donempire wrote:@Dann - i didnt bother engaging with ceph because being active is his duty as town. When people keep asking him questions and he responds with one liners and shit like "i dont have to respond" like his post before i voted him i see it as a waste of time on a person who clearly wants the discussion to stagnate, in fact the more we focus on him im certain the more this game will die down. Read his iso, its half one liners and the other half is "game sux" or "i dont have nor need any" which kills activity.
I answer questions. I just don't feel the need to engage with your or Auro's attacks on me because they're weak, I don't think there's any point in me wasting my time trying to change your minds (especially considering that Auro is scum) and I believe everyone else can see that.
There is nothing wrong with making short posts. Feel free to object to their content.
What would you propose I say instead when asked to explain a teammate's read when they didn't offer any reasons? I was heading off an expected attack about this lack of reasons when my team is primarily, though not entirely, communicating in gut read form."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I could ask my teammates for reasons, but I assume if they had compelling ones they'd have posted them already. I feel backed up by having my opinion affirmed and that's all I was looking for.
There is plenty of game left in which I might choose to do more. When the content starts to interest me, I'll start to engage with it. I tried pushing on people to get some content i could use out of them and it mostly made everyone upset with me. :shrug:
I don't need you to highlight what posts you think are bad. I do not care and I do not think anyone else does either."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I'm not really sure why being on the sidelines at the beginning of the game is suddenly controversial. I don't think anything I'm doing here is out of the ordinary, yall just feel more compelled to try hard by the format I guess and I'm just playing mafia"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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No, just their attacks on me being poor.In post 325, KittyMo wrote:Is "everyone else can see that" in reference to finding Auro scummy?
I don't feel locked in enough to attempt to case the dude, though if I desperately needed to generate content, that's probably what I'd try to do.
I'm not surprised hito isn't town reading me yet. I can definitely fake everything I've done this game."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I very much agree with this. I think I had this thought at some point and never remembered to post it.In post 325, KittyMo wrote:the way he responds to pressure tends to give me "caught for the wrong reasons" vibes"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Oh, no! This appeal to authority completely destroys my suspicions. I guess people who haven't played with someone before aren't capable of reading that person.In post 391, Auro wrote:
So based on their experience with me (which you lack) they don't think I'm the best vote for reasons you allege.In post 387, Espeonage wrote:I've played with them both before as well, so what? See above.
They must be crazy, amirite?
While you're welcome to feel that referencing town meta points is a trust tell, it's very clear the moderators don't agree with you. No one gets modkilled for talking about their town meta, sorry, that's just not a thing.In post 394, Espeonage wrote: Like the longer you go down a "this is my town meta" line without being mod killed the bigger and bigger chance that you are in fact scum by virtue of not being punished.
Here are some reads from Bella:
Dunn, Kmo, hopkirk, gobble varying degrees of town
She suspects Dann, maybe auro, and especially wgeurts.
I think I should be responding to some of FF's posts. I'll do it later."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I've never been good at this but I guess I could try.In post 400, Formerfish wrote:Ceph im here if you wanna dance in real time?
You're saying those people are authorities on you and their opinions therefore are the only ones that count. Six of one, half dozen of another.In post 401, Auro wrote:
It's an appeal to experience, not authority.In post 399, Cephrir wrote:Oh, no! This appeal to authority completely destroys my suspicions. I guess people who haven't played with someone before aren't capable of reading that person.
I don't care! If he doesn't use meta, that's his prerogative.Esp *refused* to take a look at my town games where there's clear evidence against his reason for the scumread, whereas people who played with me have it."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Oh, I was supposed to provide the topic? Well, uhhhh we're somewhat aligned on reads so I'm not sure there are any that need hashing out. I guess you could give me some more words on wgeurts town? is it just similarity to your thought process or is there something else? i had no read on that slot and i feel like i should inspect it based on team feedback.In post 407, Formerfish wrote:
Cool, what do you wanna talk about?In post 406, Cephrir wrote:I've never been good at this but I guess I could try."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I believe this is the point of disagreement.In post 409, Auro wrote:
Let's try to figure where we disagree.In post 406, Cephrir wrote:I don't care! If he doesn't use meta, that's his prerogative.
1. Esp said I'm scum for a reason X.
2. A cursory glance at my town games would show X in those games.
3. Dunn also says I do X as town.
4. Therefore, scumreading me for X is not valid.
-Dunn is fallible.
-Maybe the way you're doing it this time is subtly different (it can't possibly be exactly the same unless you post the same exact words).
-Maybe Espe thinks the entirety of mafia is situational and personality has no consistency from game to game.
Personally the major reason for my scumread on you is becoming the focus on defense, the "you CAN'T scumread me for X!" mindset that reminds me of scum caught for the wrong reason, and harping on dumb points like this when you could be doing anything else."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Yeah uh, warthogs are very untrustworthy tbh.In post 412, Formerfish wrote:
Well, yeah, unless you wanna try to talk me out of the tr i have on you. If you need to sort me still then you would need to figure out how I can help you do that.In post 410, Cephrir wrote:
Oh, I was supposed to provide the topic? Well, uhhhh we're somewhat aligned on reads so I'm not sure there are any that need hashing out. I guess you could give me some more words on wgeurts town? is it just similarity to your thought process or is there something else? i had no read on that slot and i feel like i should inspect it based on team feedback.In post 407, Formerfish wrote:
Cool, what do you wanna talk about?In post 406, Cephrir wrote:I've never been good at this but I guess I could try.
Geurt was an initial tr because his posts felt like the could have been written by myself for the most part, its a gut read based off that mind meld. I wish he had kept it up, looking back I see that he hasnt posted in like 5 days, so reading the thread all at once doesnt show that gap. Knowing he gained initial trs from those posts but then completely dropped off the face of the earth makes me wonder if he was scum towning it up for enough cred to coast on or if he is dead irl town.
I don't have a strong read on you personally, even after the longer posts, though I'm not sure exactly how it will clear up. I've certainly had strong townreads on you early before but not every game is the same and everyone varies every time etc. I'm slow sometimes and Ithat doesn't really bother me.
OK, sure. I probably tend to give townreads for the same reason sometimes even though I'm not really sure it's actually valid. I'll just look forward to hearing more from him I guess!
See I told you I was bad at this! realtime interaction should be really helpful, but I just feel put on the spot!
I guess I remember one thing I used to do in fast paced IRC games. What's your favorite season, fishy?"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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ok idcIn post 416, Auro wrote:The meta thing:
1. I claim that *anyone* who has played with me before, or reads my town games, would arrive at the same conclusion.
2. If it's subtly different, then I invite whoever thinks so to go into detail - because that subtle difference is apparently enough to want to have me lynched. Refusing to talk about it is scummy, yeah?
3. This is one thing that's pretty consistent across games.
i don't agree with either of these but it's not really importantIn post 416, Auro wrote:As to focus on defense:
1. Looking at whether/how people re-assess based on defense is a valuable means to gaining reads on them.
2. People will sheep me once I defeat their initial bad premise.
I mean that you like to get argumentative and try to slam tiny sub-points that don't even matter into the ground to prove you are the Most Logical. And fwiw I also think that's a scum trait.In post 416, Auro wrote:As to "harping on dumb points":
1. So you agree that that scumread on me is dumb? If it seems like a legitimate reason, then defending against it is good, no?
Not literally nothing else but you're spending more time on it than I feel is warranted.In post 416, Auro wrote:2. Are you alleging I'm not doing anything else this game? I want you to explicitly say so, if you are."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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without giving away the game, this qualifies as a town answer, but the whole game probably works much better in a chatroomIn post 417, Formerfish wrote:I like fall a lot. There more things for me and my daughter to do and there are holidays that we are starting our own traditions for so its cool."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i'll explain anyway. this is a technique ive seen used in chat mafia, primarily in kingmaker setups where player x is making a decision alone. x asks every player a seemingly irrelevant question and looks for certain things in their answer.In post 424, Formerfish wrote:
I dont understand what you mean, but im not too concerned by it.In post 421, Cephrir wrote:
without giving away the game, this qualifies as a town answer, but the whole game probably works much better in a chatroomIn post 417, Formerfish wrote:I like fall a lot. There more things for me and my daughter to do and there are holidays that we are starting our own traditions for so its cool.
it probably doesn't work without the pressure of knowing you live or die based on the answer too, huh. oh well, it's fun."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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If you've read my posts this game you should already know that I don't agree with this!In post 423, Auro wrote:As long as the disagreements persists, it's a great idea to talk about it, yeah?"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Lurking, or being you or dunnIn post 472, Dannflor wrote:Ankamius has not read this game yet but I want her to come in soon and be like BAM BOOM GAMESTATE AURO IS TOWN BOOM
because I feel like the gamestate has stalled a long time with Auro as the most pushed player and top wagon and... what is scum doing if he's scum"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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