TM 2023 | Open: PYP S_TM | Endgame

[Alisae]

Does Ali normally sound so robotic as either alignment? That's been the hardest thing for me to sort about that slot.

Can u quote posts?
Sometimes it’s intentionally and I like to throw in “user” before some usernames because that’s just how I am I think it’s funny

[Alisae]

okay, i've gone through 3 games with alisae, 1 them town 2 them scum, with me reading them mostly correctly in all of them, and

UNVOTE:

yeah i'm not so sure alisae is scum anymore. i don't know. the town game wasn't really helpful because, again, i townread them there off a very specific instance (them hammering a strongman on d1 without forcing a cc, when i know scum-alisae would make their partner force a cc) and nothing like that has happened here, so that's not much help

but in the two scumgames, the way i read alisae was actually... kind of closer to "wait a bit to see if i make sense as scum" than i fist realized >_> like in the micro, the way they made arguments just gave an air of "look i am solving i am taking all of you very seriously" that immediately pinged me, and here that's not really present. and with warrior cats, i did start off townreading them, but as the game went on i realized they were on the wrong side of history a bit too much for it to be accidental. and then alisae went forward to ignore me when i asked them something and declare me scum for ??? reasons and basically shut off everything i'm saying.

and i remember them asking basically the exact same "do you have reads" question that they did here in the scumtisi-game-that-shall-not-be-named where they were town. so like uh.

i feel kinda stupid writing this because "wait to see what they push" is kinda much closer to how i used to read them, so it makes sense that they thought so, and i deleted warrior cats mafia from my memory before now

for reference, games are:
viewtopic.php?t=87486
viewtopic.php?t=90022
viewtopic.php?t=90508

Ya some of my modes as wolf are
“Always be on the wrong side”
Against players who I feel like I could get away with it as or when I’m lazy, I take a show not tell approach to “look at how much I’m solving”

I forget the scum game ur referring to

“Wait to see who I push” is basically a good way to read me.

I’m unsatisfied with approach because I feel like if u we’re going to go about metaing me, you would look at the game I posted, and also find and look at some of my towngames

[Alisae]

Mena u can tell Koba that they’re cringe for championing the word cringe on ms!

[Alisae]

ok i also wanna be a cool kid so here's readlist

town - mena, ythan, staeg
slightly less town but also probably? town - alisae, gimli, cephrir, maybe mith?
i don't know and would like to see more - marashu, imaginality
idk and don't ask - lld
scum?? - rad, bella

VOTE: bella

some things i wanna note
- ceph i don't explicitly read as town, but i know he's a capable scum player and my vibe is that he would make reads up rather than going "idk bro" for like half the game. also shea told me that he thinks town ceph is def more likely to openly say he's confused, but he's never played with scum-ceph so i'd like a vibe check from the rest of y'all on this
- gimli is like, vibes; mostly seeing him slaughter the town in HK mafia made him a very capable scumplayer in my eyes, and he feels like he's tapping in the dark here still, so i'm willing to townlean him for now. i DO need to check how his early town game looks, but also he's high in the draft and i don't want lld to yell at me so maybe later
- mith i was told was a Good Player so maybe i shouldn't put a lot of stock into this, but keeping up with scumreading lld on early d1 is A Choice
- ausuka was really mean and yelled at me about townleaning imaginality bc their 694 looked way too nitpicky, and i value her opinion so they go null
- rad is like meh his readslist is meh but i don't know i don't have a high confidence level in this read

as for bella
- this is not really a read of bella but moreso a vibecheck on klick, but. i think klick's contributions to this game is what i'd expect from him if their slot was red. yes, i know klick hates playing scum, but it's not like he has to keep up the presence here or actually post or whatever. anyway.

klick is chronically unable to read me. like absolutely fucking clowning on my alignment every time he tried. it's so bad that, in cyrus' white flag, i joked how he's scum because he's finally reading me correctly. (he was scum.) so i think i would definitely expect (1) town klick to scumread me here, (2) scum!klick to know that i would be expecting him to scumread me here.

here's the thing tho. his scumread feels utterly bad. like, "oh it's similar to his scumplay in WF. no i will not elaborate" feels like he *knows* he has to make up a scumread on me but isn't actually sure how. and i think town!klick is aware of how he is unable to read me, so again that he would at least mention that to bella and it'd get mentioned here

Klicks contribution to the game aren’t alignment indicative. Bella would probably champion what they have to say as either alignment.

I’m not happy with this read, why is Bella a wolf?

[Alisae]

Like why on Bella’s own play

[Alisae]

ok but have they considered that klick is scum

We both think klick is town for how much he’s engaging with the game lol

Interesting that ur takes feel like the mirrored version of dats. Is this how the wolves distance themselves nowadays?

[Alisae]

Gimli, why did you originally vote for Marashu?

he quoted the same post datisi used to SR Rad (thats 127 and 128, asking lld to calm down and move on) that's NAI or even a little towny from rad imo so I don't agree with how datisi read the situation. I don't scumread datisi for it cause maybe he believes in it, but for marashu to drop in the game and sheep what imo is not a good case, I didn't feel good about that. it feels like marashu just picked the first reasonable looking push in front of him and pushed that, so I voted him.

I was trying to get a feel for why kuribo was suspecting Gimli, and one of the things mentioned was that vote. So I looked at the context here.

408 - Datisi votes for Rad (giving 127 as one reason, followed by some more stuff)
409-412 - Marashu enters the game. 411 is the post where Marashu gives 127, mirroring Datisi.
Otherwise, the spacing and sequence of quotes suggests that Marashu is legitimately catching up on the game at this point, and I assume this is null unless someone can point to some specific meta on this either way. I'm not sure I buy the idea that Marashu was quoting 127 solely because Datisi did, though.
413 - Gimli votes Marashu (with no explanation until 648)
414 - Marashu votes Rad
415 - Staeg enters the game, gives three scum reads (Datisi, Marashu, implosionality) votes Marashu. "Gimli has the right idea" is very strange here, given that Gimli has not at this point explained the vote in 413 and that two others (LLD and Alisae) are on the wagon at this point.

648, Gimli explains the scumread (in response to Rad) as "suspecting marashu the hardest ever since he voted on you" and that "marashu didn't explain why he voted there".

The gap between 413 and 648 coupled with the lack of consistency (Marashu's vote on Rad being after Gimli's vote) rubs me the wrong way.

Anyone more familiar with Gimli's play have any comment on this? (Or Staeg's 415, for that matter.)

I’m actually the most experienced with Gimli. Their teammate FA accidentally slipped who they were when she went to /in to mod demon slayer, but that information is only meaningful to me, I don’t think any of the ms users that would remember gimli are in team mafia.

The way I caught gimli in hollow knight was we elimmed a wolf that wasn’t there and during d1 they were constantly saying “let that wolf cook”

So right now I’m not really sure who their teammates could be, and their read on me is actually pretty good. In my wolf games I’m super slimy and full of crap. They have an above rand chance of being town I think but they could be a wolf.

[Alisae]

415 - Staeg enters the game, gives three scum reads (Datisi, Marashu, implosionality) votes Marashu. "Gimli has the right idea" is very strange here, given that Gimli has not at this point explained the vote in 413 and that two others (LLD and Alisae) are on the wagon at this point.

This is a really good catch. The order of how this all went down is really strange paired with the "Gimli has the right idea" quote. I'll be thinking about it more. I can kinda see a townie perspective of why he said that when he did but I'll let him elaborate if he wants to instead of throwing that out there.

Not fond of Rad's presence being the LLD null-or-town debacle + let's all take a breath, but the latter really isn't what I'd bill Rad for; Marashu's entrance being justify vote -> scumreading Rad for the moderation -> piggyback joke haha we're scum -> hop on Rad bandwagon was impressive, Gimli has the right idea

Implosion came in with good takes but then RVS'd instead of doing a real vote, which they still haven't moved; I like them following up on some of relevant setup theory bits ("this game does median, so how good is the data from previous games" + "you included the 1-in-5 as positive examples, but in reality those point in the opposite direction"), but they don't do anything with the protracted theory conversation (or otherwise) so I'm leaning scum on this one, too

VOTE: Marashu

I see this post and I thought that this post was written more so to look good and be ironclad than to actually be right.

"Gimli has the right idea" could be strategical phrasing.

[Alisae]

Try harder

[Alisae]

I see this post and I thought that this post was written more so to look good and be ironclad than to actually be right.

"Gimli has the right idea" could be strategical phrasing.

You know, I probably would've read these before now if you hadn't posted over 200 times already

Im sorry mister mafiascum I have a lot of free time and post a lot.

Tbh I don’t really mind requoting old posts because it’s easier than repeating myself

[Alisae]

Try harder

can you stop being so condescending it's making it really hard to interact with you

You aren’t likely to be right cuz ur looking into takes that another team is providing.
Anyone who is a wolf is going to ask their teammates for takes that could look like they come from a town perspective.

[Alisae]

It’s not likely to be right

[Alisae]

I’m asking u to give your best attempts at solving Bella based on their merits and post
Try to do it and if u can’t show me why and where you’re having trouble

[Alisae]

Shouldn’t be hard

[Alisae]

Why are you so difficult to work with????

[Alisae]

Forget it man
UNVOTE:

I feel like wolf!datisi would have just thrown some bullshit my way and call it a day

[Alisae]

VOTE: marashu
This silence from this slot is probably damming tbh

[Alisae]

Actually the thought occurred to me that they were pretty silent in warrior cats as well

[Alisae]

UNVOTE:

[Alisae]

Is that post meant for your wolf pt???L

[Alisae]

Weird sequence of posts but ok

[Alisae]

Goddamnit ali

This is like a weird post but the follow up seems like it could be covering something up

We had a whole thing going

I could really just be overthinking it but that's like genuinely the first thing I thought when I saw this

[Alisae]

How many votes does Marashu even have?

[Alisae]

The answer to the riddle is "The frog's name is actually irrelevant. The important thing to note is that vinegar dissolves the shell of an egg, leaving only the membrane intact. The salt then diffused through the membrane and replaced the egg white. This is a fun science experiment that you can try at home!"

Vote Count 1.5

Marashu (4): Lady Lambdadelta, Gimli, Staeg, Menalque
Lady Lambdadelta (2): Ythan, mith
Datisi (2): Alisae, Bellaphant
Rad (1): Marashu
mith (1): imaginality
Alisae (1): Datisi

Not Voting (2): Cephrir, Rad

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate.

Deadline is April 27 at 10:00 PM PST, in (expired on 2023-04-28 01:00:00).

VOTE: marashu
This silence from this slot is probably damming tbh

Actually the thought occurred to me that they were pretty silent in warrior cats as well

5 votes

[Alisae]

well rather 4 but 5 including me

[Alisae]

I think I do not want to be on Marashu wagon but I want to see who gets on Marashu wagon

[Alisae]

I'm going to ask my team if they think they see what I'm seeing in 784, maybe I just see it because it's in real time and it happened RIGHT in front of me

[Alisae]

Norwee thinks I am reaching

[Alisae]

I miss LLD and Ythan

[Alisae]

LLD could be intentionally not posting though if they feel like they're a wolf in control of the gamestate.
One of the things she wanted me to take away from Election is that as a wolf, playing your hand reactively and not playing when you don't need to play and only playing it when you're in trouble and you need to move the thread in the direction you want it to go is quite a powerful strategy

[Alisae]

(I think I am going to push the admin team for a feature which collapses back-to-back posts together, my brain hates all the empty space.)

that would be awesome!!!

[Alisae]

Like I'm not willing to push anyone in the top 4 today, it was a mistake town made in a recent game that gave my scum team in the PYP I played a LOT of info to find a cop when we shagged the draft.

It's not worth it. We have 3 sixes at the bottom, and there's almost always a scum in that group.

top 4 huh

[Alisae]

Ythan (9)
Staeg (14)
Gimli (2)
mith (17)

VOTE: Staeg

[Alisae]

@Mith

what do you think of a Rad-Staeg-LLD team?

[Alisae]

LLD if wolf, by not wanting to go after top 4 is probably aiming to protect someone.

I'm not voting mith or Ythan. I don't think Gimli is a wolf and honestly I don't feel like voting them is even productive right now.

Not fond of Rad's presence being the LLD null-or-town debacle + let's all take a breath, but the latter really isn't what I'd bill Rad for; Marashu's entrance being justify vote -> scumreading Rad for the moderation -> piggyback joke haha we're scum -> hop on Rad bandwagon was impressive, Gimli has the right idea

Implosion came in with good takes but then RVS'd instead of doing a real vote, which they still haven't moved; I like them following up on some of relevant setup theory bits ("this game does median, so how good is the data from previous games" + "you included the 1-in-5 as positive examples, but in reality those point in the opposite direction"), but they don't do anything with the protracted theory conversation (or otherwise) so I'm leaning scum on this one, too

VOTE: Marashu

I suspect staeg because of this post. This is a post that I feel like is written to look good and present something as ironclad. It's a kind of post that aims to justify themselves.

Wolves like to generally look good and have ironclad reads.
Villagers want to be right.

It could also be argued that they're distancing from Rad with this but also not voting them. If I want to vote town but have wolves in my wolf pool this is how I'll often go about it so I imagine that's what is what could be happening here.

Reading Rad interactions with LLD, I feel like it's not impossible for a wolf!Rad to come out of the gates say that their teammate is being aggressive if they're a wolf.
It's not like impossible for those two to fake the interactions that they did, I imagine the goal would be to prove that Rad's initial thought process was a thought process if it was fabricated.
The way that ended with Rad being like "ok ya you're different and this is how you're different" could come from a wolf.
they revisit it and say that they could actually be how they're different but it still reads like you could be trying to force the conclusion you want to force.

Staeg and LLD are also positioned similarly in Rad's readlist.

There is an argument that Rad would probably want to put LLD higher on his readlist but I think playing it the way he's playing it could be the safe play

[Alisae]

What does this even mean

The phrasing is intentionally used to try to push the blame onto Gimli if you know both Marashu and Gimli are town

[Alisae]

I think there is also merit in that LLD could opt to pick the same number with someone that they didn't know to look townie. I think that's a play should she could go with and make work

[Alisae]

It would also surprise me in the sense that LLD and Staeg were/are on the Marashu wagon and Rad listed that slot as the only scumread.

This could probably be the main reason why that wagon feels so inflated! The power that comes from playing wolf is that you have more votes than a single villager who's voice is easier to shut down.

I've never played with Rad before.

I think if Rad is a wolf with LLD, they're interacting the way they are with LLD because LLD is the heart to every wolfteam and playing wolf with LLD means that you're always actively playing around LLD

[Alisae]

I have no idea what you're on about wrt those reads being (presented as) ironclad or what reading of events has me distancing from Rad (up until last post) - elaborate?

I think your post. 415, was crafted with the intent to look good as opposed to being right.

Not fond of Rad's presence being the LLD null-or-town debacle + let's all take a breath, but the latter really isn't what I'd bill Rad for

you're distancing from rad but you're not going

after

them but instead you're going after who you could potentially see as limbait.

[Alisae]

Ya I can buy that impression, but you're not just saying that the vibe is plumage, there's that other bit about ironclad reads, wtf do you mean by that?

Your presentation of Marashu and Imaginality comes off as ironclad.
"They did this into this into this!" and "they RVS'd instead of putting down a real vote that they still haven't moved!" followed by "I liked this thing they did but they didn't do anything with it!"

[Alisae]

Are we using different definitions for distancing? Playing defense for someone by going for limbait doesn't fit any that I know of; it sounds to me like you're saying something other than mith's "looks like they're deflecting shots from each other", but I can't tell what it is

If you are a wolf with Rad and you wanted to appear as unaligned w/ Rad while also voting Marashu, the player you would perceive as limbait if you are a wolf, I believe the best way to do that would be to shade Rad while also voting Marashu

[Alisae]

Happy Cake day btw

[Alisae]

his is all fair but I'll ask you to look again at these interactions and consider them being from town!Rad.

I can see everything you are doing in these interactions coming from town as well! I'm just explaining what I think is happening if you two are teamed together.

[Alisae]

Ari?

[Alisae]

A few of Ari's posts feel like red flags, but I want to discuss this with my team.

who are you talking about and which posts?

[Alisae]

LLD could be intentionally not posting though if they feel like they're a wolf in control of the gamestate.
One of the things she wanted me to take away from Election is that as a wolf, playing your hand reactively and not playing when you don't need to play and only playing it when you're in trouble and you need to move the thread in the direction you want it to go is quite a powerful strategy

oh yes b'y i'm in control of this game state

how can you legitimately believe this when 1) I posted all of yesterday when I said I wouldn't and 2) I'm attempting to detilt and bring the thread back to normal levels.

I'm reading along and trying to let things besides me exist because of anger.

I townread
Ceph
mith
Bella
Marashu
Imaginality
Ythan
Gimli

I am also townleaning Datisi because I think if Datisi is a wolf they're a bit more cooperative and right now I am getting feelings I got in the Micro I just played with them where I shitpushed them as a wolf and I suggested a massclaim and they told me your mech is stupid and doesn't tell me anything and they were masons with the mason who was informed of the same information I was informed.

That's a...stupidly long run on sentence...

But like that's like, 7 solid townreads
Datisi and Mena is pending, but I townlean Datisi.

ok so that's 9 town
who does that have me left with?

[Alisae]

If you vote me, and I flip town Ali, you die tomorrow.

I don't want to flip you. I actually want to be able to call you town confidentially as soon as I am able if you're town. If anything you're like, null.

Accusing you is not something I take lightly. You're the type of player where if you're wolf, you're playing to some kind of gameplan and there will be pieces that support that gameplan somehow. In a sense, to accuse you I feel like I have to flip the chessboard around. I have to see what I feel like you would see and I have to identify your strategy, all of the pieces. If you're mafia, what's your gameplan and your strategy? I need to be able to identify these things to confidentially call you mafia.

It's really draining to accuse you otherwise.
I want you to tell me who the mafia is. Do you think Rad is likely to be mafia?

[Alisae]

I townread
Ceph
mith
Bella

Marashu

Wait wait wait... you townread marashu? How? Why?

Alisae could be town (have we been in a game where I was town?

This is more likely to come from a villager than a wolf.
It's not much of anything but it's a start?

[Alisae]

If you vote me, and I flip town Ali, you die tomorrow.

I don't want to flip you. I actually want to be able to call you town confidentially as soon as I am able if you're town. If anything you're like, null.

Accusing you is not something I take lightly. You're the type of player where if you're wolf, you're playing to some kind of gameplan and there will be pieces that support that gameplan somehow. In a sense, to accuse you I feel like I have to flip the chessboard around. I have to see what I feel like you would see and I have to identify your strategy, all of the pieces. If you're mafia, what's your gameplan and your strategy? I need to be able to identify these things to confidentially call you mafia.

It's really draining to accuse you otherwise.
I want you to tell me who the mafia is. Do you think Rad is likely to be mafia?

yes and I'm trying to figure out if this is Election "let me post this thing that is chaotic and makes me look townie while advancing my objectives" alisae or Anything UPick "I'm going nuts with wild theories that end in me QUICK HAMMERING A FORMER TOWNREAD OF MINE" Alisae.

and calling your bluff is one way to see how this goes.

Why do you think Rad might be mafia?
Do you also have anyone else you think might be mafia?

[Alisae]

Personally I think Mith is being far to hands off in how he reads me. There's not a lot of confidence in there which admittedly years away can provide but there's just something inside me that screams "this is a player who is pushing me as their main choice to die today and is hedging their take on my slot the whole way.

They describe how my "Reaction" is bad but that's the second person in this game to vote me on a reaction and barely explain why it's bad. Ythan, at least, I believe sees something she doesn't like.

But I'm struggling with Mith.

So why are you townreading Mith, Ali?

Again, however Mith is top 4 so I'm not voting there today.

Mith huh...
That's a take I think you would have as any alignment but it is helpful that you have it!

What do you think of a Ceph-Bella-Mith team? I think if mith is a wolf I have him paired with these players.

If I can identify you as town I think mith is one I would be willing to reconsider but I want to call his posting town because he seems solvy? He seems like he is thinking about the game. 537 explains my biggest worry on mith.

[Alisae]

you're asking questions you are already getting answers to, so....

Sorry about that.
Ya I think the best thing to do when I do this is just requote your posts. I miss things pretty easily.

[Alisae]

I think ceph's hands off approach in a game of loud voices reads as scum, where I think he'd be looking to plant a flag on me one way or another as town, even if he was wrong he'd be looking to influence it.

One of my goals during this day phase is to try to solve with Cephrir in real time. If he's stuck, I want to see if I can help him and see what happens as a result.

[Alisae]

Maru's low effort posting can be cured by more legitimate pressure that no one seems to want to put there.

The very first game I played with them was Warrior Cats and they were largely absent for most of day 1. A lot of people wanted more from them during d1 and d2 in Warrior Cats and it took them awhile before eventually getting more out of them.
Maybe I'm just stupid, but can you explain to me how putting down votes there adds anything to the amount of pressure that is already on the slot. It's already at 4 votes. How do more votes change things?

I don't think more votes is helpful for sorting Marashu. I value time > votes here. They're inactive but they DO want to play mafia and they DO try to play mafia when they're a villager, so like, I want to give them the chance to let them do that?

[Alisae]

I also think Marashu will just obvscum if he's a wolf so there's that too!

[Alisae]

Oh ya who the fuck are even Marashu's teammates.
Is rolling wolf with him so doomed that he just has to get bussed immediately? Wave did it in Cakez game.

I think I am the only player in the game that is ACTIVELY looking for innocence.

[Alisae]

stayed too long, i'm off again

ciao

Thank you, you were very cooperative.
UNVOTE:

I'm going to think about what it is I want to do next.

[Alisae]

Maru's low effort posting can be cured by more legitimate pressure that no one seems to want to put there.

The very first game I played with them was Warrior Cats and they were largely absent for most of day 1. A lot of people wanted more from them during d1 and d2 in Warrior Cats and it took them awhile before eventually getting more out of them.
Maybe I'm just stupid, but can you explain to me how putting down votes there adds anything to the amount of pressure that is already on the slot. It's already at 4 votes. How do more votes change things?

I don't think more votes is helpful for sorting Marashu. I value time > votes here. They're inactive but they DO want to play mafia and they DO try to play mafia when they're a villager, so like, I want to give them the chance to let them do that?

I mean, the question is where scum Marashu and thus Marashu's team feels under any actual pressure or not, right?

You're itching to leave the wagon, and people are suspecting me more actively while Marashu lurks.

This is a game full of old school players, so let's use an old school adage. LAL. well, EAL now? Eliminate all Lurkers.

put marashu to actual deadly pressure and say "post or die" and if he doesn't post... he can die?

You have to actually be willing to kill someone or they just won't care.

ok ya I will mull this over.
I kind of want to say that currently I think that time is still more valuable than votes here, and I do think there is this sort of "post or die" energy that is going around in thread that isn't necessarily stated with votes. Like, I think people are probably going to be willing to kill Marashu if they don't post and I don't think you really need votes to show this.

viewtopic.php?t=90686 In this game that was finished shortly after election (I'm on Klickwork), I proactively punished town whenever town ended up voted town. D1 I ended day early because we used our numbers to inflate the start of the wagon.
D2 we ended early because we started piling on votes when only town voted town and 1 town put the d2 elim into lethal range
D4 we gradually built the wagon up and as soon as town put town into hammer range a hammer was placed
D5 was F8 Mylo

This kind of stuff is why I'm starting to become more skeptical of how I've been using my vote because even in cakez game I felt I was misplaying with my vote. I probably should have unvoted when the watcher claimed watcher if I didn't know what was going on. I shouldn't have just gutvoted ircher on d3. I DEF should have just voted PB over you on D4.

[Alisae]

tbh I want to also give the table a chance to react to your latest posts, I feel like they are good posts that advance the game forward and that is what I wanted!

[Alisae]

oh also d1 quickhammer was by a wolf

[Alisae]

Maybe I should just vanish like a tbh. The game has a lot of me and I think letting people react to what has happened is best.
I'll probably pop back in though if I see Ceph posting because I wanna solve with him in real time

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

Alisae seems to me like she's on designer drugs

What gives you this impression?

Wait why'd you move your vote off me

I'm content with LLD's responses so I wanna take a step away from the thread

[Alisae]

im pretty trash in real time/the "dance" is something i tend to avoid as either alignment because, maybe social anxiety? not sure but it fills me with dread. im willing to try though

I think you can be better than you think you are at it and I think you should try to do your best and even if you're struggling to come up with a read, being able to talk about why it is you're struggling is good!
Just try it, bring up someone's ISO and go with the first thing that comes to ur mind.

[Alisae]

Life and Mafia is what you make of it so give it your best shot!

[Alisae]

It also sort of became apparent that Ali was full of it in that sense when e started asking for my reads and then pulled a Ceph/Mith/someone forget who scumteam out of eir ass to fit our conversation.

......

[Alisae]

It also sort of became apparent that Ali was full of it in that sense when e started asking for my reads and then pulled a Ceph/Mith/someone forget who scumteam out of eir ass to fit our conversation.

......

Am I wrong?

Several of those names are on the list of 9 townies you presented prior to our conversation.

the INSANT you were like "oh yeah no, this is a possible team too" I was like "okay so Ali doesn't have a strong belief in this at all, so why is Ali team solving like this without a strong belief?"

I wouldn't say you're wrong. I would say you're lacking consideration for how I want to play the game. This is a gamestate that could be developed further and further and the way I like to play mafia is I see the game as a mafia equation. If X is true, what is Y? This is what has worked for me.

It's more or so frustrating because am I supposed to see that line and go "Is LLD a wolf just making up whatever it is they wanna make up to shade me and are they just going to keep doing it" when I see the first quote? All because I decided to come into you, something that I know is draining, tiresome, requires lots of fucking effort, and something I would rather just avoid entirely?

Like I voted Staeg, said I could see him as aligned with you, and you made it all about yourself and the team theory and then offered in a demanding tone to vote Rad.

Like most of your content on this game was from the first 4 hours of the game where you argued w/ Ythan, I feel like it would be reasonable to want more from you. I feel like I made it clear that I don't really want to vote you out but rather if you are a wolf, go after what you're trying to protect. You went out of your way to protect me on Election during D3 and especially on D4. I just want to try to understand your perspective and I'm literally always thinking about "who is the wolf team if this person is town. Who are these person's potential partners if this person is a wolf"

Is it unreasonable for me to want to take a step back and re-assess?

[Alisae]

Ali I like your new avatar.

Thanks.
I don't quite understand why Titus wants to vote me, I feel like I should be an easy townread for her to identify.

[Alisae]

the whole purpose of the exercise was to see if you were really that locked in on that team you were presenting and where your head was at, to read you in a position that makes it hard for you to do anything else.

and as with all situations like that, I need to be willing to actually do the things I say or they have no meaning.

If you'd be like "alirght bet" I'd have voted Rad.

If you'd voted me, it would have shone a light on it overall.

If you'd kept on staeg it would have been flying in the face of generally accepted strategy

Instead you backed down and chose to try and re-evaluate, which I townread actually because I think scum you uses my unpopularity in this game to fly in the face of me and say how frustrated you are by my shenanigans.

I'm not locked into anything right now. I think it's too early to be locked into something right now.

[Alisae]

tbh LLD me saying "I have all of these players as town" was more so an invitation to talk about reads because well, if I'm wrong on you, and I'm wrong about this whole team theory, then I'm likely going wrong somewhere in my TRs.

[Alisae]

Ali I like your new avatar.

Thanks.
I don't quite understand why Titus wants to vote me, I feel like I should be an easy townread for her to identify.

I don't know what to say to that besides maybe you're scum then lol

Titus rarely actually has a fos on me ever when we play in games. I can fool her easily as a wolf and I work well with her as a villager, especially because I know her play extremely well. I'm amazing at reading Titus.

The fact that Titus wants to vote me off, idunno what to do with that information, I'm still processing. She usually never fos' me

Have you caught up? If so do you have reads? More players have posted and I would like to know where your head is at on them!

[Alisae]

LLD is there anything else you want from me?
Otherwise I am probably just gonna

[Alisae]

LLD is there anything else you want from me?
Otherwise I am probably just gonna

can you make an innocent child role appear in this game so I can go on a rampage or just be certain about you?

In a more serious note, you say you're not locked into anything and I want you locked into something. Like it's obviously not practical for you to not be allowed to be flexible so... meeting half way.

I want 3 names of people who you are willing to kill today. GTH, when the clock starts to wind down towards deadline, people you are willing to kill. Whether it's compromise or enthusiastically.

I would mirror the sentiment! If you could be an IC that would be lovely!

Fuck, 3 names of people I want dead RIGHT NOW?
Fuck man, I would prefer not, part of the reason why is basically I want people to play and I feel like as time goes on things just get more clearer but like
3 people I would wanna kill right now?
ok uh

Staeg is my only real suspect so him ig
1 of you/mith ig would be informative.
and if they just don't post or obvscum marashu

[Alisae]

To want me to be an IC, you must think my range is incredible. I think I am going to cry

[Alisae]

ok my answer doesn't change and I would lean you over mith

[Alisae]

wait no sorry mith over you.
I would vote mith over you

[Alisae]

That said, I do feel more strongly about LLD-scum than anyone else at the moment. On the more recent postings:

I hate the whole "calling Alisae's bluff" thing; obvious incentive to go along with this if LLD is scum and Rad is town, not really all that risky if they are both scum, and feels like an overly extreme reaction to the mere suggestion of her in a group.

The interaction with Rad himself is... something. Asking "why top 4 specifically" is a perfectly legitimate question that was (as far as I can tell) never answered before this exchange. In a vacuum, the reaction is anti-town; I get the impression from others not blinking at this that LLD just bites people's heads off like this sometimes though?

This kind of posting...
It screams alarm bells to me due and makes my previous concern louder...

[Alisae]

I think my current scumread of LLD is more to do with the volume and attitude of the numbers discussion more than with disagreeing over her conclusion (I don't currently have any reason to think she doesn't believe what she's been pushing about the scum-in-triple probability). It completely flooded the early game in a way that doesn't strike me as productive for town, where I can see plenty of benefit for scum to try to push on a particular group of players (potentially stifling other D1 discussion; and the argument about it has certainly had the effect of stifling my willingness to read through everything). I particularly don't care for the start of the argument with Ythan.

Like reading this, it seems like you think LLD's actions are something that could come from a wolf but I feel like if you're a wolf, it's pretty easy to want to push a read like this and hang onto it.
You could also be a villager and this is a valid concern. This is something I'm thinking about as well but I hoping I can get a clearer answer as to what's going on if I just let the game develop and just let LLD do what she wants to do.

This is my biggest worry regarding mith

Like the same thing that came up here is coming up again...

[Alisae]

ok goodbye

[Alisae]

I wonder why alisae expressed this need to interact with me in real time, gave me an assignment and did nothing further with me

Sure, I dipped after writing that post about gimli, but e didn't know that

I probably should have said something but tbh when I first read that post, my mind literally went blank I have no idea how to engage with it

[Alisae]

I also thought you would do more than 1 ISO but that's rude I will try again

[Alisae]

369 expresses the concern that they're using a lot of words.
762 expresses the concern that they would have used more words.
I thought that was interesting when reading that post because the two ideas contradict each other.

tbh I wanna see how Gimli engages with that and how other players engage with that.

I'm still just mind fucking empty though when reading that. I would normally fos that post if literally any other players posted it in a different context but in this context when I said "give it your best shot" and you did I don't really want to.

[Alisae]

I wanted to play video games more than I wanted to do this

And now I want to sleep more than I want to do this

lmao ya that was rude to bait you.

[Alisae]

Sorry I just did not know at all how to engage with a post like that

[Alisae]

as bella proceeds to point out, the tone of this post is... like, from mars, comically pockety. hi, (user)! i like your thoughts because [reason 1] and [reason 2]. please do not vote me out, friend!

Like I think it's just me but tone reads I feel like don't really resonate with me. This isn't really for me tho it's for you and if you feel like that's what works for you you should like do that.

I just don't really know how to engage with it.

fwiw I think it's still productive that you made a post like that because it advances the game and that's good! I think it's better

[Alisae]

I missed these I think it's worth talking about.

It also sort of became apparent that Ali was full of it in that sense when e started asking for my reads and then pulled a Ceph/Mith/someone forget who scumteam out of eir ass to fit our conversation.

......

Am I wrong?

Several of those names are on the list of 9 townies you presented prior to our conversation.

the INSANT you were like "oh yeah no, this is a possible team too" I was like "okay so Ali doesn't have a strong belief in this at all, so why is Ali team solving like this without a strong belief?"

However, this is true. You apparently tr me but also I'm scum with ceph? (@alisae, who I typed into ari at 3am, I am legit sorry)

Individually ya, but if LLD is town, who are the people pushing her as wolf? A team of You-Ceph-Mith is the first thing that comes to mind when I think of something like that. It's something that was in the back of my mind. If LLD and I are both town, this is something that made sense. If I ever thought LLD was town, this was going to be the next thing I would explore.

ig it's fine for you to be disturbed by this since it felt sudden but this is just me thinking ahead.

--

....I do agree with lld that you are ridiculously hard to read: you post takes that almost come from my brain and then suddenly do something Weasel-y and my voting finger gets twitchy

Just to slightly contradict what I just said, I'm not sure if scum are 'in control' of the thread - I think a lot of the people posting are town, which is why we feel a bit lost. But yeah, they coiodbe done better than rand in the draft and are sitting pretty and quiet waiting to elim a townie and get to the fun night actions

I think you just don't understand what I'm doing and you're not thinking from my perspective!
This is why I think "ok it's fine for Bella to be disturbed about this" because I think you just see it and go "??????" but there is method to my madness.

I wrote a huge post about how I feel like by this point in time I've obvtowned myself but it took me like 2 hours to write and its like 4am and tbh I tired myself out and lost interest so I'm just going to spare you from that. It's on my notepad though ig /shrug
But like, I don't think I'm ridiculously hard to read though. I don't think I'm the miracle worker that can do anything.
If anything I'm the person who is the most willing to get their hands dirty and be slimy to get what they want.

I also feel like there's a lot of things I just wouldn't do if I was a wolf.
I don't need to TR imaginality for TRing Rad early.
I don't need to TR Marashu at all.
I don't need to pick a fight with Datisi because he TRs me.
I don't need to call Cephrir town and try to encourage him to solve when he has a bunch of people as idk.

[Alisae]

Spoiler: cephrir's casing me

welcome to cephy's FakeReads!

the game show where we post complete and utter bullshit (proving that i could fake some reads if i wanted to) and then see if I buy any of the bullshit I just made up (this is the "spin for scumhunting usage")

me presenting it in this fun way is scummy, but if i also write this meandering self-aware clause, it's not scummy anymore

if anything aren't the 6s less likely to be scum cause no coordination? like scum wouldn't pile on the number 6

no that's

again scum don't know what numbers town pick

so if scum split into 3 different numbers the odds that one of those numbers hits a triple up is much higher than any townie hitting it, by 3:1. Coincidentally about the historical odds that groups of 3+ same number pickers contain at least 1 scum.

that just makes 6 the number people picked the most.

otoh the 6 is also the number that contains more townies, cause if scum splitted then its 2/3 or 3/3 town in it

while lets say a number that was only picked once has 0 or 1 scum and 0 or 1 town

you're just discovering 6 was the most picked number in the game and 'figuring out' its more likely to contain scum while forgetting its just the one with the most *PEOPLE* in it

given last time you were extremely loud like this about wanting to control things you were scum, and this is clearly not how to scumhunt, I'll go ahead and ignore it from this point forward since I just explained why I think its wrong

so, okay

any leans on anyone, LLD?

i think this takes way more words to arrive at an obvious point than necessary, as if to make it look more like a thought process

The other issue is, if people are impressionable, like me, the only take away they are gonna have is that the 'reasonable' responses (me, imag, alissy, gimli) are town, and those aren't even particularly good takes!

hi bella! I like this post cause it pushes what I'm sure you think is a protown agenda, while exposing reads you're probably making in the spot understanding the reasoning for it is weak and the threadstate isn't conducive to scumhunting.

as bella proceeds to point out, the tone of this post is... like, from mars, comically pockety. hi, (user)! i like your thoughts because [reason 1] and [reason 2]. please do not vote me out, friend!

The other issue is, if people are impressionable, like me, the only take away they are gonna have is that the 'reasonable' responses (me, imag, alissy, gimli) are town, and those aren't even particularly good takes!

hi bella! I like this post cause it pushes what I'm sure you think is a protown agenda, while exposing reads you're probably making in the spot understanding the reasoning for it is weak and the threadstate isn't conducive to scumhunting.

Hi! Did AI write this post? It feels very expository but also like it's trying hard to be friendly! While being slightly passive aggressive

damn bella

well I haven't had my coffee yet

an attempt to nail casual levity

"what im sure you think is a protown agenda" is just so on the nose!

I think that sentence came out a certain way that wasn't my intention, ofc I agree with your thoughts re:protown, but trying to act protown isn't towny per se, but its a suitable background on how you're giving no weight to your impressionable reads because you made those reads for real, which is the specific part I lean town on

perhaps the worst part of this whole exchange wherein our hero, in a desperate effort to avoid sounding like an AI again, contorts himself into this word salad ass post

tentatively townleaning on imaginality's entrance, it mirrors my thoughts on stuff while making a much more proper post than I could

I guess I like datisi's effort in reading the thing through. I won't, at least not for now

what is townie about "a more proper post"? is that just buddying?

I can feel klick's townyness through bella its so glorious

this post is crafted to sound town-excited

ashu the hardest ever since he voted you, cause I thought datisi's case in that page was pretty unconvincing, or at least I felt like datisi was noticing things that aren't indicative of alignment and calling them scummy. marashu didn't explain why he voted there but since dats' case was on the same page it makes sense for it to be sheeping him which I find suspicious cause IDT many townies would read through those points and agree with them. I don't like that marashu didn't return to the game yet while promising to do so, so I'm fine with where my vote is.

marashu did not vote until after gimli voted for marashu - this is revisionist

I'm suspecting marashu the hardest ever since he voted you, cause I thought datisi's case in that page was pretty unconvincing, or at least I felt like datisi was noticing things that aren't indicative of alignment and calling them scummy. marashu didn't explain why he voted there but since dats' case was on the same page it makes sense for it to be sheeping him which I find suspicious cause IDT many townies would read through those points and agree with them. I don't like that marashu didn't return to the game yet while promising to do so, so I'm fine with where my vote is.

Gimli, why did you originally vote for Marashu?

he quoted the same post datisi used to SR Rad (thats 127 and 128, asking lld to calm down and move on) that's NAI or even a little towny from rad imo so I don't agree with how datisi read the situation. I don't scumread datisi for it cause maybe he believes in it, but for marashu to drop in the game and sheep what imo is not a good case, I didn't feel good about that. it feels like marashu just picked the first reasonable looking push in front of him and pushed that, so I voted him.

mith sees the point i made above and gimli here catches on to his mistake but the backpedal isn't that compelling. i disagree with the characterization that marashu was "sheeping" datisi's case by agreeing with a single line from it for one post.

Gimli, why did you originally vote for Marashu?

he quoted the same post datisi used to SR Rad (thats 127 and 128, asking lld to calm down and move on) that's NAI or even a little towny from rad imo so I don't agree with how datisi read the situation. I don't scumread datisi for it cause maybe he believes in it, but for marashu to drop in the game and sheep what imo is not a good case, I didn't feel good about that. it feels like marashu just picked the first reasonable looking push in front of him and pushed that, so I voted him.

I was trying to get a feel for why kuribo was suspecting Gimli, and one of the things mentioned was that vote. So I looked at the context here.

408 - Datisi votes for Rad (giving 127 as one reason, followed by some more stuff)
409-412 - Marashu enters the game. 411 is the post where Marashu gives 127, mirroring Datisi.
Otherwise, the spacing and sequence of quotes suggests that Marashu is legitimately catching up on the game at this point, and I assume this is null unless someone can point to some specific meta on this either way. I'm not sure I buy the idea that Marashu was quoting 127 solely because Datisi did, though.
413 - Gimli votes Marashu (with no explanation until 648)
414 - Marashu votes Rad
415 - Staeg enters the game, gives three scum reads (Datisi, Marashu, implosionality) votes Marashu. "Gimli has the right idea" is very strange here, given that Gimli has not at this point explained the vote in 413 and that two others (LLD and Alisae) are on the wagon at this point.

648, Gimli explains the scumread (in response to Rad) as "suspecting marashu the hardest ever since he voted on you" and that "marashu didn't explain why he voted there".

The gap between 413 and 648 coupled with the lack of consistency (Marashu's vote on Rad being after Gimli's vote) rubs me the wrong way.

Anyone more familiar with Gimli's play have any comment on this? (Or Staeg's 415, for that matter.)

I guess that's inconsistent in terms of what narrative I presented in the thread but I voted marashu for the movement he was making towards rad with posts that came before mine, obviously. after I voted he made another post with that vote, ignored that I voted him and stormed off, which strengthed my scumread. I didn't explain cause I haven't verbalized what I thought at that point, just thought marashu's push was kinda scummy

I think this is a lot over one vote though

"i voted marashu for the movement he weas making towards rad with posts that came before mine" is again unfair - marashu had made only one post on the subject and it's hardly "movement towards" anything

even the revised version is uncompelling

I don't have thoughts on staeg

update this to an actuall null read. I think his posts are correct enough but he hasn't shown anything alignment indicative thus far

i guess scum might have posted more thought process here for town points

so, do i buy any of the bullshit i just posted? actually, i do a little.

thanks for playing FakeReads!

this is bad, ceph, are you scum? I have never seen you do anything even close to such filler scumcase

so your first point, that I used more words than necessary, isn't true and I'm surprised you used it to push me. I used less words than everyone else that came after me and said what I said to LLD. I was breaking down the math for it in a dumb way cause I'm a dumb man, but how is it an excessive? also I don't think the thought process behind that post is alignment indicative, so how would it be something that 'looks like thought process' when it has to be literal thought process regardless of my rand? what are you suggesting, that I'm making up a thought process as to why a mechanical idea is wrong when that thought process is specifically NAI and something both town and scum could conclude exactly the same way with exactly the same reasoning?

well I don't appreaciate being called wordsalady either that made me sad but I understand my posts come off like that as well so whatever

re: imaginality's post. of course they're more proper posts than mine since mine are word salad. either way it was a post with clear ideas and easy to read which reflected my thoughts better than if I were to explain those same thoughts.

Man I literally asked the guy who said that they were struggling to try to form a read and here you are taking that out of context just to beat him down.
man.

[Alisae]

My response to this is to shrug, throw up my hands and walk away

gun to head villagery response?

[Alisae]

@alisea, I've had klick in my ear about how good of a scun player you are, plus you are nice. It makes me paranoid.

My wolfgame is good vs bad players that are not prepared for the various amounts of cheese strategies I will use against them.
Demon Slayer was for the most part me getting through the game w/ cheese strategies.
Election was a game where I feel like I didn't wanna or needed to do much of anything and I could rely on my teammates to do everything that I could have done.

[Alisae]

Cprh has dropped down the trs for a few of us. Null

y

[Alisae]

@Alisae do you feel like LLD is being anti-town this game? If so, do you equate anti-town LLD moreso to town!LLD or scum!LLD?

why would u use the phrase Anti-town? What does that mean here

[Alisae]

I'm brutal like that

looks to me like you're removing the context from the post and just attacking it

[Alisae]

My response to this is to shrug, throw up my hands and walk away

gun to head villagery response?

he does all of this purposefully towny looking reaction to things when he is mafia

Does he though?
I haven't seen wolf!Ceph in a long ass time.

[Alisae]

my alisae townread is starting to wear thin as e's posting continues to be soft and 'trying to understand' and 'trying to grasp' and 'letting it rest' and this and that. it's here it's interacting it's making impressions on everyone but is it solving? is it pushing the game anywhere?

VOTE: Gimli

[Alisae]

My response to this is to shrug, throw up my hands and walk away

gun to head villagery response?

he does all of this purposefully towny looking reaction to things when he is mafia

Does he though?
I haven't seen wolf!Ceph in a long ass time.

yes he does, that's the thing he absolutely excels at

Show me

[Alisae]

Come on... you have 42k posts, certainly you know this concept.

I'm aware of the concept but what specifically are you describing as anti-town?

[Alisae]

2. alisae appears to have ignored the question. do you care?

what did I ignore?

[Alisae]

My response to this is to shrug, throw up my hands and walk away

gun to head villagery response?

he does all of this purposefully towny looking reaction to things when he is mafia

Does he though?
I haven't seen wolf!Ceph in a long ass time.

yes he does, that's the thing he absolutely excels at

Show me

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=90634&user_select%5B%5D=4489

When I look at linked game and look at this game and I'm following the vote, Ceph looks like he's actively voting and using his vote and I don't see a readlist from here where as here when he gave a readlist it had a bunch of idks

I feel like I'm not getting that same kind of struggle in the linked game that I'm getting here but I could also not be reading closely enough. How do you think these 2 are similar?

[Alisae]

Come on... you have 42k posts, certainly you know this concept.

I'm aware of the concept but what specifically are you describing as anti-town?

Alright.

Spamming the thread, often with the same question relentlessly
Many (most? every? i dunno) interactions with people who disagree with her are met with aggression and personal insults
Making the conversations very difficult to navigate and uncomfortable even when I'm just an observer

None of this is conducive in helping a town come together

this is how she usually is.

[Alisae]

I don't think looking at how anti-town lld is being is alignment indicative for her

[Alisae]

Spoiler: an ocean of cephrir doing one liners to diminish pushes on him as scum

UNVOTE:

would be happy not to believe you but meh

your day play today has been very underwhelming as town

LLD tunnel on Ranger sort of took over the day, and I found that interaction hard to read

Tried to give some reads on other players, apparently that was too surface-level and TMI

Several players are also being hypocritical.

You for instance haven't done anything extraordinary (do you ever?), and Ceph and STD are coasting as usual.

I'm scumhunting thanks for the totally unnecessary dunk

Cephrir really desperate for my elimination...embarrassingly thirsty for it

What can I say, scum blood tastes best

it's....not though

I mean, in the sense that a N5 doctor claim just gets you yeeted every time, if your only goal is to buy time.

N1 cop claim is one that has to produce results if they're alive. N2-NX don't.

There's a cool scum strategy it's called lying

If Cephrir was town who strongly scumread me here he'd recognise that it's mechanically correct to let me live regardless.

You've misjudged things my furry friend

I'm gonna need someone other than you to convince me

plus, it makes me look super townie to not push for std here. You both flip on me if I haven't found scum by day 3-4ish, so if i show that i don't want to kill him i can kill him later and look really good

it's a scum strategy :3

excuse me while i go have an aneurysm

Where do you feel like he's trying to diminish pushes?

[Alisae]

My response to this is to shrug, throw up my hands and walk away

gun to head villagery response?

he does all of this purposefully towny looking reaction to things when he is mafia

Does he though?
I haven't seen wolf!Ceph in a long ass time.

yes he does, that's the thing he absolutely excels at

gimli is right about this

you're saying that you would blatantly just be like "idk" and do nothing as mafia?
I feel like you would be more...proactive but It's been a long time

[Alisae]

Goddamnit ali

This is like a weird post but the follow up seems like it could be covering something up

We had a whole thing going

I could really just be overthinking it but that's like genuinely the first thing I thought when I saw this

This is giving my a headache btw

[Alisae]

Can anyone comment on 784 and tell me if that's like, even valuable or worth getting hung up about?

[Alisae]

VOTE: marashu
This silence from this slot is probably damming tbh

Ez game ez lyfe?

man i wish i didn't have a townread on menalque already so that i could ask about that read with the excuse of sorting him

Is this you asking me about that read? Don’t be coy with me young sir

I agree wolfslips are rare, this makes makes me feel like it's less so

[Alisae]

I am going to forget about it and proceed to fuck off until I get the responses from Gimli.

I am also going to mull over 1114. On a cursory view the post is gross

[Alisae]

like that post just spits in my fucking face it's gross

[Alisae]

What purpose does that serve other than to just plant paranoia about me?

[Alisae]

Not caught up at all but my team's telling me to post now and chat with people who are around, and catch up as I do so? Anyway, I'm here but not caught up yet. AMA.

hi please read and post content

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

Ground Control to Major Ali
Commencing countdown, engines on
Check ignition and may God's love be with you

[Alisae]

Ok, caught up.

Town

Alisae - scum!Alisae makes no sense to me. Like, white knighting me doesn't really benefit Alisae much because of how much it would stand out. Pocketing me doesn't make sense because at this point me reaching endgame feels more than a bit unlikely?
Ythan - I'm a bit unsure on this slot but it's this high because my team is TR'ing Ythan.
Lady Lambdadelta - I'm really bad at reading into emotionally-charged posts so I was going to avoid reading into this slot, but I liked the more recent exchange between LLD and Bellaphant (and the effort I see that's going into sorting every slot).
mith - At first I was a bit concerned about mith's posts about simulated data (partly because I failed to see how it led to an LLD vote), but I think that mith's posts since then have been pretty on-the-mark.
Cephrir - I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Ceph has posted (especially 886). I'm also kind of tonally TR'ing this slot but apparently that's dangerous to do.

Datisi - I feel like Datisi's posts have been pretty solid, I guess? This one's more of a gutread.

Bellaphant - I didn't mind Bella's entrance, but I dunno. Something seemed a bit off during the recent exchange with LLD. That might just be frustration, though?
Menalque - Nothing really stood out, both when reading the game and when doing an ISO (because I couldn't really remember anything of note)

imaginality - 1158 feels slightly tmi? And also what's the point of 1155? I didn't really have strong feelings about this slot until saw those. Looking back, I had missed that imag was defending Gimli in 968.

Staeg - This was lower because for some reason I thought Staeg was the first one who said that Gimli voted because of my vote, but I realized later that I had it wrong. Still, the entrance was odd and felt like piggybacking Gimli, and 418 implies that other things happened that Staeg found suspicious in the first 16 pages, but no mention of what that might have been.
Rad - I'm a bit frustrated that people don't seem to see what I mean about Rad. At risk of deathtunneling, I find it so strange that this slot is trying to stand on both sides of the fence; scumreading me while also wanting to hold back because I "could be town".
Gimli - I think this is the read my team and I most agree on. My team didn't like the readlist. I didn't like how revisionist Gimli was to the vote on me (at the time of the vote, I thought Gimli found something strange about me finding Rad's post strange).

scum

Right now the two other people I would vote (Gimli/Staeg) are both top-4, so I'm affirming that I still like my vote where it is.

I can see some of these takes coming from town
Mostly just the Ythan read tbh
I don't really get your Rad read can you explain it more!

[Alisae]

this is a drug song ali

ur mum

[Alisae]

Marashu reads ig are pretty resident sleeper tho

[Alisae]

like that post just spits in my fucking face it's gross

What purpose does that serve other than to just plant paranoia about me?

sorry mate its just how im reading the game. the sheer amount of not moving the game in any direction while posting as much as you are doesn't make me feel good about you. your responses to me were too reactive in a way I don't know if fits much with your towngame either, as I remember town you being extremely charitable to scumreads as town and trying to pick people's thoughts and understand them rather than OMGUSing them.

if I were just strong TRing you like everyone else seems to be doing, wouldn't that be objectively worse from an alignment standpoint? why would I pick you as scum, when there's all these flavours of potential low hanging fruit hanging around?

also why would I try to diminish your influence in the game when you're not pushing anything? I think if I was scum I'd be fine with the way you're playing

I slept on it and I think I overeacted. I feel like wolf!Gimli would probably just do the same thing they did in Hollow Knight was TR me even though a lot of villagers fos'd me, so I think your TR on me fading is probably likely town
UNVOTE:

[Alisae]

ali can you read my marashu town case

I'm getting there

[Alisae]

i do not recall mena making posts like "goddamit ali" in scum PTs, without like any further comment

ok sure

[Alisae]

o wait you picked 1 w/ mena I can't trust you fullheartedly but the more I think about that thing I saw w/ Mena the more I think it's just not likely to be right

[Alisae]

Personally, I think Marashu's reads were dogshit and surface level garbage that barely said anything about anything.

But do you know what they weren't?

Coached.

I agree w/ the "coached" thing but that's mostly because I don't think the coaching you're referring to actually happens on this website. I could be wrong though!

[Alisae]

Marashu comes in here and goes

"I'm tripling down on Rad and have suspicions in Gimli and Staeg but they're top 4 so I won't"

How in the fuck is that how scum responds here? Scum has to find a path forward to look good to survive.

Scum might lurk or beg off and say it's harder right now but Marashu comes in with a full reads list full of awfully justified reads and sticks back into Rad.

I might be insane, I really might be, cause those posts are bad but I think Marashu's play doesn't make sense for scum and Rad and Bella's positioning around the wagon are suspicious, ESPECIALLY Rad's.

Marashu I think can just stick back into Rad if wolf.
I'll mull over Rad and Bella's positioning

[Alisae]

I might be insane, I really might be, cause those posts are bad but I think Marashu's play doesn't make sense for scum and Rad and Bella's positioning around the wagon are suspicious, ESPECIALLY Rad's.

This is just so ridiculous. Do you vets not consider experience at all? Mara's got like 1400 posts on here. I'm at 1700 and that's like 4 newbies and 1 large. How is marashu's reentry NOT newbie scum as hell? And how are you still not understanding why I'd want to hold off on flipping a slot with 5 posts that could have repped out into a more readable player?

Here I'll replace your unvote since that wagon PL has suddenly become less scummy

VOTE: Marashu

I'm not sure I like this though. I'm going to review did they actually comment about the readlist at all?

[Alisae]

Rad - I'm a bit frustrated that people don't seem to see what I mean about Rad. At risk of deathtunneling, I find it so strange that this slot is trying to stand on both sides of the fence; scumreading me while also wanting to hold back because I "could be town".

Let me break this concept down for you Mara, although I do think this is most likely coming from bad faith, maybe you're just town deathtunneling me.

Just woke up, and I see there's already 17 pages in the past 6 hours. Going to start reading now.

okay, so do you know why my team was able to predict that we should never pick 6?

Because 6 is the single most picked number in PYP history. The literal last game of this that was run I was scum in even included multiple people on 6s.

When 3 players end up on the same number, and that number is famously known for being highly picked, it's very likely there is one scum in the list if not 2 doing a scum gambit that has HAPPENED IN TEAM MAFIA BEFORE (Faraday and Hoopla did it).

Even from a statistical model, 3 people picking the same number contains scum a large percent of the time.

And finally, killing on the bottom end of the draft pool reduces scum's opportunity to learn our roles by pressuring our top end, forcing a clam and backing off and then forcing another claim, a strategy I employed as scum literally 2 months ago when I last played this game as scum and nearly won.

My team was debating between 4, 6, and 7. For our sampling, we looked at the last 5 times PYP S_S was run. 4 was more common than 6 (6 only being chosen by 3 people across all 5 games). 7 was less common than 6 but we figured 7 might be a more recognizable number (lucky 7) and more likely for people to pick in this specific game. In hindsight, it was more likely to be closer to median than 4 so was more likely to be common.

Lld if you think ythan is town and you're town, let's calm down and move on

This pings me as slightly +scum trying to look moderate.

tbh I picked 6 because my teammates are marashu and imaginality and I wanted to spell out the devil numbers as a team to spell out how doomed it is

Shh! We agreed that was going to be the big reveal

Caught up. VOTE: Rad

I like Bellaphant for town.

Quick gut impressions (because I start work in like 5 minutes and my entire morning was reading this thread), this is in range for LLD as either alignment, but the argument itself I think is sound. Alisae could be town (have we been in a game where I was town? I don't have time to check). Bit of a tougher time reading Ythan. I'm terrible at reading Datisi but seems town so far. No strong opinions yet about other players.

I'll check back in a few hours.

This was you and your slot for 2+ days. This was everything I knew about you as a player and every bit of clues in the game as to what alignment your slot is.

Now I consider what I see there scummy. And at the time, it was actually the most scummy thing I saw in any player. So you were my biggest scum read.

What level of confidence do you think I should have on that read at that stage of the game?

If you think I should have high confidence, ok, then I can understand why you may be confused about why I'm scumreading you but also holding back because you could be town.

Let me tell you though - I'm not so full of myself as to believe I can pinpoint scum in that amount of info. So I absolutely have kept the idea that you might just be town with a bad take this whole time.

Does that change my read of anything you said previously? Nope. Your posts there are still scummy to me.

Would I bet the d1 flip on you turning out scum? Well no, I wasn't confident in that, I was open about not being confident, and that's why I didn't vote for you.

You're reading my openness as scummy. That's your call, but consider if I instead had deathtunneled you there because of a single thing I found you scummy for and ignored all the other slots in the game. Does that make me more towny to you? Or does it even matter what I had done and you're just convinced from an early read that I'm scum?

hmmmmmmmmmm

[Alisae]

Personally, I think Marashu's reads were dogshit and surface level garbage that barely said anything about anything.

But do you know what they weren't?

Coached.

I agree w/ the "coached" thing but that's mostly because I don't think the coaching you're referring to actually happens on this website. I could be wrong though!

I do it a good amount.

you left me out to dry d1 without telling me anything that was going on in election and then I voted you and you shouted at me

[Alisae]

I might be insane, I really might be, cause those posts are bad but I think Marashu's play doesn't make sense for scum and Rad and Bella's positioning around the wagon are suspicious, ESPECIALLY Rad's.

This is just so ridiculous. Do you vets not consider experience at all? Mara's got like 1400 posts on here. I'm at 1700 and that's like 4 newbies and 1 large. How is marashu's reentry NOT newbie scum as hell? And how are you still not understanding why I'd want to hold off on flipping a slot with 5 posts that could have repped out into a more readable player?

Here I'll replace your unvote since that wagon PL has suddenly become less scummy

VOTE: Marashu

I'm not sure I like this though. I'm going to review did they actually comment about the readlist at all?

ok so this rad vote on Marashu came AFTER LLD called them out.

[Alisae]

and AFTER LLD defended Marashu

[Alisae]

I really want to lim both Rad and Mara but they're near definitely not scum together

Why?

[Alisae]

This is the spacing he used for his reads. First of all, the spacing indicates that he is thinking about confidence levels for reads a lot more than just "here are some catagories, here are some piles" It's interesting because even if I ignore the words I can sort of get a picture of his world view? And in a weird way, it aligns with mine. Like, if you drew a line below Datisi and above Bella, you'd have "the people I think are currently townie" and "the people I am worried about"

I like this argument

[Alisae]

Like.... if this is scum, they said "let me do a bunch of spewing that is actually kind of interpretable but not enough work to save myself in any capacity".

Oh ya in the last game they actively went out of their way to not spew.

[Alisae]

I've spoken on why I'm voting for you and I'm not interested in humoring the way you're still trying to mischaracterize me lol

gun to head this feels like what town posts.

Does wolf!Ythan just fake a tunnel on LLD when she knows that she'll survive and not get pressured for anything else?

[Alisae]

I also want to say that a wolf!Ythan would be more proactive than this but this is my first time playing with Ythan!

[Alisae]

their scum game is loud and agenda driven with clear strong pushes for elims

this is the opposite of that

that's really base level for an alisae read that strong

Cephrir read me as town super early in cakez game when you said you thought I might be a wolf. This all happened on the same page.
I'm fine with it.

[Alisae]

Have to admit it bothers me a bit that Cephrir's bottom 3 is exactly my "most likely scum group if I'm right about imaginality".

Something I just noticed is it's the same thing as Marashu's bottom 3 except for Imaginality. But Imaginality is Marashu's like bottom 4.

[Alisae]

VOTE: Rad
I am going to come back to the thread later but Getting on when LLD gets off reads as wolf!Motivated to me

[Alisae]

Honestly when it comes to Mara, I feel like that is a player that should be able to be readable as more time goes on.
I think the reasons to think the slot is town are good for enough to let it slide. If it truly is a wolf that just made bad posts, they'll probably consistently make more bad posts. If they're town, they should be able to consistently show signs of that.

[Alisae]

I think it’s really easy for a wolf!lld to just votepark marashu and if they ever do vote marashu that’s something I feel like is worth investigating

[Alisae]

I think it’s really easy for a wolf!lld to just votepark marashu and if they ever do vote marashu that’s something I feel like is worth investigating

yeah that's not happening this game lmfao

would u ever post something like this if ur a wolf?

[Alisae]

I think it’s really easy for a wolf!lld to just votepark marashu and if they ever do vote marashu that’s something I feel like is worth investigating

yeah that's not happening this game lmfao

would u ever post something like this if ur a wolf?

would I ever post "that's not happening this game lmfao" as a wolf?

I don't know, I'm not sure? Probably I would, if the circumstances were right? But I'm not scum so I...

I am having a hard time answering this question. Probably yes, but I've never said it before and I'm town here and I don't know if I've been in this circumstance before so.

Ok
I’m asking because this is a post that restricts your actions for the long term if ur a wolf

[Alisae]

Ok
Marashu isn’t someone who should be that hard to read so if you’re right you’re right!

[Alisae]

Also Imaginality's post is big garbo and I'm trying to decide if I want to vote Imaginality or Rad and who is scummier lmfao

Something I plan on doing is rereading ur interactions with them when you offered to vote rad with me. Their reactions recently have been wolfy but I need to look back at that incident when i feel like I have brain power

[Alisae]

Ok
Marashu isn’t someone who should be that hard to read so if you’re right you’re right!

You make me so stupidly paranoid.

You're dancing around this like a victory lap.

I just know when to rely on my teammates and for what

[Alisae]

Also Imaginality's post is big garbo and I'm trying to decide if I want to vote Imaginality or Rad and who is scummier lmfao

Wasn't Imaginality a strong TR of yours?

[Alisae]

When I read Imaginality's posts backwards, up to the point where he voted you, I feel like what I see with Imaginality is all of the things I think wolves would want to do coming from a townie's mouth. Is that weird?
I'm not used to the idea that someone as scum makes up a theory on how someone is PLANNING a bus someone on D2 or future days. I remember pushing Aureal for presenting some kind of crazy logic in a newbie game that someone was just going off of the notes in their wolf PT on what to do next, but when I was bantering w/ Klick during Demon Slayer, that's another thing I bring up and I wanted his take on how he would read a post like that and he said that he thought that post always comes from town

[Alisae]

Anyway I'm more included to believe that 964 is likely to just be a real thought but something I noticed is they're also fosing Gimli and I feel like a lot of people are fos'ing Gimli.

I think Gimli is town because he said his TR on me got weaker in a way that seemed wolfy but is probably just too wolfy to be a wolf because I can't think of why a wolf would ever actually write a post like 1114. I read 1186 and I'm like "ya uh huh ya ok I think I can agree with most of what Gimli is saying here"

[Alisae]

Also Imaginality's post is big garbo and I'm trying to decide if I want to vote Imaginality or Rad and who is scummier lmfao

Wasn't Imaginality a strong TR of yours?

Not recently? Not since the first iteration of their posting when you convinced me to swap to Marashu. Their posting regarding Mith and I has been scummy and I talked about what I saw with Datisi

When you offered me deal you mentioned them as a strong tr but I see that has changed. What do you think about my read on Imaginality?

[Alisae]

When I read Imaginality's posts backwards, up to the point where he voted you, I feel like what I see with Imaginality is all of the things I think wolves would want to do coming from a townie's mouth. Is that weird?
I'm not used to the idea that someone as scum makes up a theory on how someone is PLANNING a bus someone on D2 or future days. I remember pushing Aureal for presenting some kind of crazy logic in a newbie game that someone was just going off of the notes in their wolf PT on what to do next, but when I was bantering w/ Klick during Demon Slayer, that's another thing I bring up and I wanted his take on how he would read a post like that and he said that he thought that post always comes from town

Anyway I'm more included to believe that 964 is likely to just be a real thought but something I noticed is they're also fosing Gimli and I feel like a lot of people are fos'ing Gimli.

I think Gimli is town because he said his TR on me got weaker in a way that seemed wolfy but is probably just too wolfy to be a wolf because I can't think of why a wolf would ever actually write a post like 1114. I read 1186 and I'm like "ya uh huh ya ok I think I can agree with most of what Gimli is saying here"

[Alisae]

I'll think about it

[Alisae]

Hi, a brief check-in, pain and parenting getting in the way of posting. I'll be free from the latter later so I'll respond to mith's junk case against me later today (NZ time) and some random other stuff from my skim of what's happened since. Also any specific questions if you bold them at me.

For now: my spicy one line take is LLD is still scum, and Maru is town. It's easy for scum to find reasons to towncase someone they know is town. And there are more other viable targets to mislim than earlier compared to Marashu or bust so switching to townreading Marashu makes LLD look better with less risk than before.

I obviously recognize the wolf!motive for this post. This feels like a wolf looking to discredit LLD. I have a hard time seeing this being a genuine thought because I don't think it aims to engage at all with what you're saying but rather just goes out to attack you for doing it

[Alisae]

My also first initial impression of Imaginality is that in Demon Slayer, they were saying things that made sense about the game as I was railroading them, so like comparing this to that, this doesn't feel like something that makes sense

[Alisae]

I await with baited breath the dismantling of my junk case.

I think it’s really easy for a wolf!lld to just votepark marashu and if they ever do vote marashu that’s something I feel like is worth investigating

My totally-paranoid take on LLD/Marashu is that they are scum together. I don't think it's actually likely, and I'm certainly not going to spend the time right now digging through all... (checks) 333 LLD posts (this will probably be wrong by the time I finish writing this) to see if it makes any sense, but that's been on my mind since I unvoted LLD, LLD unvoted Marashu, and momentum seems to be converging elsewhere.

Overall non-paranoid take would place them both somewhere in a nebulous blob in the middle of the pack; Marashu has posted

just

enough to not make me think he's deliberately lurking, and I agree with LLD that it doesn't make a lot of sense to not come back with something stronger if he's scum (but, scum are bad sometimes). LLD has the opposite problem of posting so much content that it's not hard to find some things I like to go with the things I was voting her for.

Anyway. I would vote for Rad over Marashu right now if it came to a deadline thing (not that we are anywhere close to that yet). Quite happy on imaginality, until he blows up my junk case of course.

I'm fine looking elsewhere. If that's the case, it should reveal itself with time.

[Alisae]

VOTE: Rad
I am going to come back to the thread later but Getting on when LLD gets off reads as wolf!Motivated to me

Can you explain the wolf thought process you believe happened?

Seems like a panic reaction to try to maintain status quo

[Alisae]

VOTE: Rad
I am going to come back to the thread later but Getting on when LLD gets off reads as wolf!Motivated to me

Can you explain the wolf thought process you believe happened?

Seems like a panic reaction to try to maintain status quo

The status quo of what, a mara wagon that I previously chose not to join?

the atmosphere of "Mara's post is bad"

[Alisae]

I am here to dedicate brainpower.
First thing I want to do is re-read from when marashu posted reads because I don't think I absorbed everything that I could reading that as I was waking up

[Alisae]

VOTE: Rad
I am going to come back to the thread later but Getting on when LLD gets off reads as wolf!Motivated to me

Can you explain the wolf thought process you believe happened?

Seems like a panic reaction to try to maintain status quo

The status quo of what, a mara wagon that I previously chose not to join?

the atmosphere of "Mara's post is bad"

But it was bad and not a single person has said it wasn't bad. What is my scum motivation in voting mara with regards to Mara's terrible posts?

[Alisae]

i have said many times that i don't use games where i didn't play for meta

anyway i figured rad could be like, incompetent newbscum, but i looked up a scumgame of his and like: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=50&t=89776&user_select%5B%5D=36603 on a quick skim

[Alisae]

tbh I'm reading the game and uh...He has a point?

[Alisae]

UNVOTE:

[Alisae]

The yellow face is cute but like... really, what was it? Why wouldn't I have just chilled in the mara wagon before? Why "panic" and jump back on it later when I had all the reason in the world to be on it before that?

LLD unvoted it. She saw innocence. The idea is you were worried about LLD influencing the game off Marashu. Your vote came specifically in after her unvote. Not before, after her unvote. Like it was a response

[Alisae]

Anyway now the question becomes why Is Datisi bringing up meta from a game they weren't involved in to advocate for your innocence?

[Alisae]

I've played loads more with town!rad and yeah, scum!rad is less bossy and awkward;p

Bella is also advocating for Rad here hmm......

[Alisae]

okay yeah the more i look at my last post the more i like it

he argued earlier in the game that there isn't anyone else he'd like to vote more than marashu, so he didn't vote anyone

but lld is scummy for actually voting marashu and "refusing to progress the game"

VOTE: rad

now he votes rad...

[Alisae]

these reads are fucking garbage

Gimli Cephrir Ythan
LLD Marashu | Bella Rad
Datisi Mena
Mith
Imaginality Staeg

I need more from Mena Mena legit baited us today lmfao. I want to say I feel like they're always aligned with Datisi? Is that crazy?

[Alisae]

But I think it's probably easier for LLD to just push a town!Mara vote through with that terrible return post than to overthink it.

Yes this is something I said. Very easy for wolf!LLD to just push Mara through. Wolf!LLD I want to say wouldn't close off her options like this. Very confident to give her the day pass today.

So TvT or SvT with scum!Mara and LLD is just wrong.

I am going with TvT.
See this: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75555
If I think LLD is town and is most likely always the townie in this situation, when it comes to a topic as simple as Marashu? I'm not going to write her off has "WRONG KEKW" like she's not going to be incompetent at identifying easy to read marashu. I'm going to want to trust her when she has the read she has.

[Alisae]

Alright, why is marashu "easy to read" and I'm not?

well for one I've played with him 2 times before this compared to you who this is my first game with.
In the first game he was town and I was a wolf and he voted me and was very much so just doing his thing during the day.
In the 2nd game I was town and he was a wolf and he was on the wrong side of history while being bussed by his more competent scumbuddy in twilight. D2 he did nothing. He just rolled over and died.

[Alisae]

like I submitted him as a vig shot n1 and he didn't die. Cephrir was also in that game tracked him and got no result. Like he was rolestopped so he just ran over and died.

[Alisae]

I don't know what you're getting at

[Alisae]

in general. Give it time and it should be easy.
I'm leaning on LLD because my gut feels on Marashu haven't really changed so wynaut

[Alisae]

Why am I not easy? 1400 posts vs 1700. We're the same skill level. What is it that makes Mara easy for LLD to read and I'm not easy?

your postcount is irrelevant its because I've played with marashu and I don't know who you are

[Alisae]

you are questioning me about the same fucking thing over and over and I've made myself super fucking clear. At this point I'm lost because at how this line of questioning is helpful FOR YOU.

Marashu is easy to read. Any competent player should be able to do it easily.
They make their alignment obvious.

Us 3 played together in the game I shot him as vig and he didn't die

[Alisae]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN LOL

[Alisae]

Why am I a wolf?

[Alisae]

What kind of read even is that?

[Alisae]

Us 3 played together in the game I shot him as vig and he didn't die

seriously what the fuck does this have to do with anythiiiiing lol

YOU LITERALLY ASKED IF SHE PLAYED WITH MARASHU BEFORE AND I SAID SHE HAS

[Alisae]

A correct one probably. Others can follow the sequence of events and logic it out for themselves. I don't need to explain it to you.

AND THAT IS?????????????

[Alisae]

I EXPLAINED MY HISTORY WITH MARASHU AND HOW I FEEL LIKE IF THEY'RE TOWN THEY'LL TOWNTELL AND IF THEY'RE A WOLF THEY'LL OBVWOLF AND YOU'RE GETTING HUNG UP ON ME SHEEPING LLD'S READ ON A PLAYER THAT I CONSIDER TO BE EASY TO READ????????????

[Alisae]

JUST FUCK OFF MAN

[Alisae]

A correct one probably. Others can follow the sequence of events and logic it out for themselves. I don't need to explain it to you.

EXPLAIN IT

[Alisae]

WHY IS MARA EASY FOR LLD TO READ, because of 1 game? That fucking newbie is so easy to read, for LLD (but not you), after that 1 game.

Is that your stance here?

jm vc
[opbmgol;[pujn.,vg

[Alisae]

bhxfmj>L"?YHj;
d'srfXFJHbmsagdgb

[Alisae]

I caught Marashu before and Imaginality I think I can get a good read on. Last time I played with him I pushed him as low hanging fruit and railroaded his elim extremely quickly.

Alisae could be town (have we been in a game where I was town? I don't have time to check).

No this is our 3rd game together,

I want to think this player writes this as town?
UNVOTE:

last game we played together he was bussed during twilight and I tried to shoot him n1 but he was rolestopped. He was also tracked.
I feel like Marashu is someone who should be easy to read. But if he's a wolf, he's probably just going to roll over and die.

Maru's low effort posting can be cured by more legitimate pressure that no one seems to want to put there.

The very first game I played with them was Warrior Cats and they were largely absent for most of day 1. A lot of people wanted more from them during d1 and d2 in Warrior Cats and it took them awhile before eventually getting more out of them.
Maybe I'm just stupid, but can you explain to me how putting down votes there adds anything to the amount of pressure that is already on the slot. It's already at 4 votes. How do more votes change things?

I don't think more votes is helpful for sorting Marashu. I value time > votes here. They're inactive but they DO want to play mafia and they DO try to play mafia when they're a villager, so like, I want to give them the chance to let them do that?

I also think Marashu will just obvscum if he's a wolf so there's that too!

LLD is there anything else you want from me?
Otherwise I am probably just gonna

can you make an innocent child role appear in this game so I can go on a rampage or just be certain about you?

In a more serious note, you say you're not locked into anything and I want you locked into something. Like it's obviously not practical for you to not be allowed to be flexible so... meeting half way.

I want 3 names of people who you are willing to kill today. GTH, when the clock starts to wind down towards deadline, people you are willing to kill. Whether it's compromise or enthusiastically.

I would mirror the sentiment! If you could be an IC that would be lovely!

Fuck, 3 names of people I want dead RIGHT NOW?
Fuck man, I would prefer not, part of the reason why is basically I want people to play and I feel like as time goes on things just get more clearer but like
3 people I would wanna kill right now?
ok uh

Staeg is my only real suspect so him ig
1 of you/mith ig would be informative.
and if they just don't post or obvscum marashu

[Alisae]

randomlettershowangerandanger
istownamirite

YOU ARE LITERALLY PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH WHEN YOU ARE SAYING THAT I SAID THAT MARASHU WOULD BE EASY FOR LLD TO READ I LITERALLY NEVER SAID THAT AND I'VE BEEN CONSISTENT IN MY THOUGHTS ABOUT MARASHU ALL FUCKING GAME

[Alisae]

randomlettershowangerandanger
istownamirite

actually I'm done
VOTE: Rad
you're saying this is wolf indicative when it's not fuck you

[Alisae]

Why are you voting me

[Alisae]

You're not doing a very good job of spelling out the reasons why I am mafia!

[Alisae]

you're misrepresenting me

[Alisae]

you're saying that my keyboard mashing is a lamist act

[Alisae]

I DID ANSWER IT
I HAVE MORE GAMES PLAYED WITH MARASHU THAN YOU

[Alisae]

ITS NOT ABOUT POST COUNT THATS IRRELEVANT ITS ABOUT EXPERIENCE

[Alisae]

I have a bigger problem with you not ever answering my question

you also keep FUCKING saying that LLD is good at reading Marashu when that's not what I'm saying I'm saying the player in general isn't that hard to read and if LLD seems like they have a good read on the guy and it doesn't conflict with anything I'm seeing I'm going to sheep it!

SHE LITERALLY SAID THAT SHE WOULD NEVER VOTE MARASHU IN THIS GAME
She's stating like huge confidence in herself being right on Marashu

[Alisae]

HAHAHA

but you're leaning on LLD's read on Mara so that's irrelevant?!?

how is any of this conducive into finding my alignment?

[Alisae]

HAHAHA

but you're leaning on LLD's read on Mara so that's irrelevant?!?

how is any of this conducive into finding my alignment?

What I already found it.

We must adhere to Ceph's demands now.

NO, I WANT YOU TO TALK

[Alisae]

I fail to understand how I am a wolf for anything that happened on these last few pages and you're dodging me whenever I'm asking for a definite answer

[Alisae]

Only if Ceph allows

YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING WITH FREE FUCKING WILL AND NOW YOU'RE HIDING BEHIND CEPHRIR????????????
WHAT THE FUCK

[Alisae]

If you want me to "shut up" answer the question
why did you vote me for blowing up in your face for questioning that leads literally nowhere? What makes you think this comes from Mafia?

[Alisae]

Only if Ceph allows

YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING WITH

FREE FUCKING WILL

absolute loyalty

AND NOW YOU'RE HIDING BEHIND

to

CEPHRIR????????????
WHAT THE FUCK

You are pretentious...

[Alisae]

are you just fucking with me or do you think I'm mafia?

[Alisae]

Also you literally never answered my question lol

how is my answer not satisfy you I literally said it was because I have more games played with Marashu than you

[Alisae]

you might be mafia though

Why?

[Alisae]

UNVOTE:

[Alisae]

You seriously didn't answer my question which legit bothered me.

how did I not answer your question?
I feel like I've had to repeat myself multiple times

Q: Why is marashu easier to read and I'm not?
A: Because I've played with Marashu more than you.

[Alisae]

these reads are fucking garbage

Gimli Cephrir Ythan
LLD Marashu | Bella Rad
Datisi Mena
Mith
Imaginality Staeg

I need more from Mena Mena legit baited us today lmfao. I want to say I feel like they're always aligned with Datisi? Is that crazy?

[Alisae]

You seriously didn't answer my question which legit bothered me.

how did I not answer your question?
I feel like I've had to repeat myself multiple times

Q: Why is marashu easier to read and I'm not?
A: Because I've played with Marashu more than you.

Yeah but again you ultimately leaned on LLD's read on Mara so it doesn't matter that you've played with Mara before, the question then goes to why is Mara easier for LLD to read than I am.

This is what you were trying to ask? Why is it easier for LLD to read Mara than you?

not "ultimately"
I feel like you're not considering my own read that I had on Marashu.
I've been championing that Mara had a +rand chance to be town. He has made a game advancing post since then.
LLD then claimed that if they were sure on anything in this game, they were the most sure on Marashu town.

Marashu is just a task I don't mind relegating to LLD here because she's preaching that she has a really good read on Marashu.
It doesn't conflict with anything I currently have so I don't mind going along with it.

I don't feel like I ever said that it was easier for LLD to read Mara than you.