Mini 2017: Encore Mafia - Now Without Cults [Endgame]
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
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- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Phoneposting, so can't do my normal town town scum scum thing, link to stuff, go into detail yet, etc., but.
VOTE: Awoo.
Others posting are town/town?, will give details when home.
Also, will'crumb later (it's a video, so can't breadcrumb right now), but my wiki page is fairly up to date and my past roles are all there.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Alright, so the detailed version: my wiki page isIn post 12, mastina wrote:Also, will'crumb later (it's a video, so can't breadcrumb right now), but my wiki page is fairly up to date and my past roles are all there.slightlyout-of-date, but I'm fairly confident there are no completed games unlisted on there. (Though, there are games that are listed as ongoing which have since completed.)
Excluding alts/hydras as they aren't eligible, I have had the following roles in games that are classified as completed:
- Vanilla Townie 5 times
- Neighborizer 2.5 times (Second game was not JUST a neighborizer)*1
- Doublevoter 1.5 times (Second game was not JUST a doublevoter)*1
- Bodyguard 1.5 times (Second game was not JUST a Bodyguard)*1
- Missile Silo 1 time (Note: could classify as either VT or Dayvig, but I am excluding it from those)
- Mason 1 time
- Inventor (of Rolecops) 1 time
- Neighbor .5 times (Not JUST a Neighbor)*2
- Hated .5 times (was not JUST hated)*1
- JOAT .5 times (was not JUST JOAT)*1
- Doctor .5 times (was not JUST Doctor)*1
- Backup .5 times (was not JUST Backup)*1
- Dayvig .5 times (was not JUST Dayvig)*1
- Rolecop .5 times (was not JUST Rolecop)*2
- Loved-maker/Lovederizer .5 times (was not JUST Loved-maker/Lovederizer)*2
- Goon 2 times
- Encryptor 1 time
- Godfather 1 time
- 1x Death Immune 1 time
Yes, that's actually a much smaller list than you'd think, but games from mastin2 don't count (yet alone, Mastin); games on alts (such as Usami) don't count, which presumably also rules out all-alt games (meaning I can't be Roxas's, House Dayne's, or Sayori's roles), and games on hydras don't count (which rules out basically over half of my games because most of my games are played on hydras especially minis as it turns out).
*1 = all of these were the same role; *2 = all of these were the same role, from a different game, btw.
As far as breadcrumbs, I'll actually give you three.For what it's worth, the second role hint (aka, my "incredibly generic doesn't-really-narrow-it-down hint) is that the game I am breadcrumbing has at least some bitter feelings from me involved.Spoiler: Incredibly Contrived, Convoluted Breadcrumb
The third and final hint?
I am quite aware that mutant said we shouldn't breadcrumb.
I am on record as saying that this role actuallyshouldbe breadcrumbed. (I'm not sure if I have explained the theory behind why this role should be breadcrumbed, but I know for a 100% fact, on MULTIPLE occasions, I can and have stated this role absolutely should be breadcrumbed.) When I roleclaim, I can go into the theory as to why. (Or if I die before claiming, then I'll do the theory talk in the dead PT.)
NOW FOR THE NEXT PART.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Town.
In post 8, Ms Marangal wrote:Obv scum before I even post?
Ouch, talk about a hit to my ego.
Also, I am against it. It won't serve town any purpose and it makes it easier for scum to figure out which of their old roles would make a good fake claim.
Can tell you what I'm not! I'm not the Pokemon that chkflip gave me with all the cool JoaT powersTown?
Scum.In post 10, Awoo wrote:I have never rolled town PR. I think signing up for this game was an antitown move.
I hardclaim VT.
VOTE: Espeonage-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
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- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Have we really not played together before?In post 20, BNL wrote:There's no way you're getting a townread off the first post in the game, especially an RVS vote.
You would not be making this post if we had ever played together, but I could have SWORN we've played together; I've seen you around a whole fuckload, yet this is something you absolutely should know about me if you have literally any experience with me.
I don't plan fakeclaims before I receive my role PM (I mean IIn post 22, implosion wrote:I will also say I'm more than a little worried that mastina's opening looks an awful lot like something she could have planned to do if she got a scum role PM when she /inned for this game, with a specific role that she had planned to fakeclaim in mind.doplan OPENERS before I receive my role PM but I don't plan CLAIMS before I do; planned claims comes AFTER), I don't fakeclaim as scum, and this is NOT a role I would fakeclaim.
Guarantee you.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I've been on mafiascum for much longer than that.In post 24, BNL wrote:Are you confusing me with someone else? I haven't been on Mafiascum between Feb 2017 and May 2018.
I was there when you were first around in 2015, and I've been around since you've been back; I could have sworn you'd encountered me at some point.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
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Sure.In post 34, implosion wrote:Someone please kick this game into gear i'm bored
VOTE: implosion.
How's that?-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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It makes sense when you know what role I have and know my philosophy for this role. I have a rather specific agenda to achieve, and this gives me the best path towards it.In post 47, mutantdevle wrote:
How open you are to giving clues about your role makes me uncomfortable.In post 23, mastina wrote:and this is NOT a role I would fakeclaim.
The only progress that will give you is showing why I'm town.In post 40, BNL wrote:Game is not progressing. Going to switch to my strongest scumread now.
VOTE: mastina
So I actually was scumreading implosion (thus the vote on him), but this actually reverses my read; this is not the type of response I'd expect from him if he were scum. It's just too natural, smooth, relaxed. He's at ease, calm, has his wits about him. It's not too serious; it's fairly lighthearted. In fact he's probably one of my strongest townreads at this point.In post 49, implosion wrote:
Not good. You did it an hour after I fell asleep.In post 36, mastina wrote:
Sure.In post 34, implosion wrote:Someone please kick this game into gear i'm bored
VOTE: implosion.
How's that?
Back to here.
VOTE: Awoo.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Mara, you'd be quite right to call me out on buddying a scumbuddy, the problem is if you think that we can fake the interactions we've had you're absolutely insane especially given BulletNLynchproof is calling for my lynch. (Something I'd absolutely not approve of.)In post 58, Ms Marangal wrote:Bnlp/mastina/???
I think you're wrong to have liked her.In post 58, Ms Marangal wrote:I think I like her.
Believe it or not I actually am quite familiar with Awoo and I can tell you with 80% confidence she's scum here.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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BulletNLynchproof
implosion
Pine
Wisdom
Errantparabola
Ms Marangal
mutantdevle
Srceenplay
Espeonage
Kokichi Oma
Myloninja13
Awoo
About this. Errant may be one higher, but I'm not sure.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Actually.
BulletNLynchproof
implosion
Pine
Wisdom
Errantparabola
Ms Marangal
mutantdevle
Srceenplay
Espeonage
Myloninja13
Kokichi Oma
Awoo
Much better.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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On the grounds that I have personallyIn post 72, Ms Marangal wrote:
Color me intrigued. On what grounds?In post 66, mastina wrote:I think you're wrong to have liked her. Believe it or not I actually am quite familiar with Awoo and I can tell you with 80% confidence she's scum here.readmost of Awoo's games (about half, the entirety of; the other half, a few key points of), and I am that exact percentage sure that this is how Awoo enters the game as scum.
Awoo is not mislynch bait; Awoo is just scum.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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This would be my experience as well--he's not outside of his scumrange altogether, but what he has given feels quite solidly not what I would even remotely expect to be his approach if he were actually scum.In post 92, Errantparabola wrote:implosion: agree with mastina that this guy is the highest town. However, experience suggests that he has a wide range of scum ability, from transparent to very solid.
Not quite, actually. You're on the right track, in that it has to do with what Pine's doing versus what he's not doing, but Pine as scum does have some obvious signs that here are absent; his approach this game is precisely what I'd expect from him as town.In post 92, Errantparabola wrote:Pine: I wonder if mastina is seeing the same thing that I'm seeing here, to put Pine so high off of just a couple posts -- I'd expect him to have big scum shoes to fill, and perhaps he'd be a little more involved here.
More or less my thoughts. Every time I see Errant post, it makes me think town, though this is with the caveat that I don't really have a good baseline for what from him is scum.
I am intrigued, because you have enough experience with me to know that I deliberately avoid giving immediate reasoning behind my initial reads to gather reactions, and only after people have reacted to my reads do I give them the explanations. (And even then, often skipping the reasoning a fair amount.)In post 76, Kokichi Oma wrote:I am also intrigued, because I feel you're the type to if you actually believed you had a meta read to just state that as first.
That's because he is.In post 77, Pine wrote:Yeah Kokichi is coming off as scum here.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I got the same vibes from them as well!In post 114, BNL wrote:Mylo gave me the same newbie vibes as Awoo did, but I'm more cautious of him.
I got the impression they were both scum and had no idea what to do in this playerlist filled to the brim with big names widely known/respected players that all randed town!-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I really feel like you're being dumb. (Especially since you're one of the few players in this playerlist to have a chance to know what role I possess off of my stance that this is a role which
shouldbe breadcrumbed. I breadcrumb ALL roles I have--even THIS one. Because no role, not even THIS one, should remain uncrumbed.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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See this?
This is scum, blatantly hopping onto a wagon initiated by town, most likely ON town.
The proof?
Awoo votes mutant, while pointing suspicion onto Pine...the player who singlehandedly initiated the wagon in the first place.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I have enough to say this is, with around 60-75% certainty, mutant as town. mutant as scum sticks out like a sore thumb; mutant as town in my experience with him is pretty much what I'm seeing this game. This comes with the caveat that I've seen him in like a total of four or so games so my experience with him is limited, but I still think what I am seeing is far, FAR more likely to be town than not.In post 157, Wisdom wrote:Is mutant different as town? I dont have experience there
Mara should be able to back me up to some extent; she saw what mutant as scum was like in the worst game ever run rather intimately (being exposed to his inner process of workings as his partner), and it was nothing like what he's like in this game.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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It actually is good townplay, so I'll continue doing it as much as I want.In post 183, implosion wrote:Idk why you're so deeply interested in discussing your role after you've already breadcrumbed it. Like, spouting bullshit softclaims to try to throw off scum is not good town play in this game.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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In post 197, BNL wrote:I think with mastina talking about her role so much, I think it’s best to leave sorting her to another Day.
I know I have explained my stance on this role at least once on mastina, but actually, the main time I've explained my stance on this role is on mastin2. Most notably, in at least one (if not two) games from a specific time. (One game, 2014; the other, 2013. I know I 'crumbed this role in at least ONE of them, but I don't know which one; it could be both, or one, or the other, but it was there and I KNOW I explained it.)In post 198, Ms Marangal wrote:
The only role that popped into my head was unlisted by you and I don't think our last game finished by the start of this so it wouldn't count. That leaves me a bit confused, but I guess I could leave you until tomorrow.In post 179, mastina wrote:I really feel like you're being dumb. (Especially since you're one of the few players in this playerlist to have a chance to know what role I possess off of my stance that this is a role which
shouldbe breadcrumbed. I breadcrumb ALL roles I have--even THIS one. Because no role, not even THIS one, should remain uncrumbed.)
Still though.
I'll leave this as an open challenge.
If you think you know what my role is, you can give me the Correct Answer to this:
In post 185, BNL wrote:Mastina what do you think of Pine?
This is a little difficult to unpack further, but I can try if you'd like.In post 177, mastina wrote:
Not quite, actually. You're on the right track, in that it has to do with what Pine's doing versus what he's not doing, but Pine as scum does have some obvious signs that here are absent; his approach this game is precisely what I'd expect from him as town.In post 92, Errantparabola wrote:Pine: I wonder if mastina is seeing the same thing that I'm seeing here, to put Pine so high off of just a couple posts -- I'd expect him to have big scum shoes to fill, and perhaps he'd be a little more involved here.
*ahem*In post 198, Ms Marangal wrote:I also think this is a little strong for not actually having experience with him
I have plenty of Awoo experience.In post 176, mastina wrote:(about half, the entirety of; the other half, a few key points of), and I am that exact percentage sure that this is how Awoo enters the game as scum.I have personallymost of Awoo's gamesread
I can go into detail about this read when I get home from dance, but this is Awoo's scum meta, through and through.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Nope!In post 224, mutantdevle wrote:Also, am I the only one who found this post a bit of a disappointment to what it was introduced as?
And I think you are very wrong to think it is very wrong.In post 203, Errantparabola wrote:I think this is very wrong.
Acceptable vote and if I move off of Awoo it would indeed be to move onto Myloninja (since both are scum), but my scumread on Awoo is greater and I like the wagon there more, so. Not moving unless I have to.
Considering your post here is strangely reminiscent of my experience with you when you were scum, sorry, read remains.In post 216, Awoo wrote:mastina:[/color] Very good logic against me, strong townread. I swear I'm not being scummy on purpose just to get reads, this is not sarcasm. But after this post you will swiftly realize I am town and collapse the wagon now
Annoyingly though I fully expect the wagon to collapse becauseotherswill buy it even though by all rights they shouldn't.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Yes, and he's my strongest townread so fuck no I'm never wagoning him and the wagon there is a steaming pile of shit. (But more on that below.)In post 238, Awoo wrote:Have you looked at BNL yet?
My thoughts are that I am second-guessing a towncred on a player who could be (*cringe* why am I using this terminology) deepwolfing that isn't hard-townreading BulletNLynchproof right now.
/approval.In post 285, the worst wrote:gawd koki is a good investigative target
Well itIn post 288, Errantparabola wrote:
What's your percentage of certainty here?In post 233, mastina wrote:And I think you are very wrong to think it is very wrong.was80%, but the more I read, the stronger my certainty becomes; it now sits at more like 90%.
That'd be a poor choice of words, though admittedly I'm struggling to find better ones. I'd say it's not that wasn't caring about Awoo's post, so much as it is that I didn't care for Awoo's post. Does that make sense? The two aren't synonymous and I think you can get the difference.In post 234, implosion wrote:mastina not caring about Awoo's post is interesting.
As I see it, there are two possible worlds. They're mutually exclusive with one another I fully admit, but in neither of them is Awoo town. The first world, Awoo genuinely sees BulletNLynchproof as mislynchable. Given that he is the current lead wagon for a lynch (more on that later), that's anything BUT a weird choice.In post 237, implosion wrote:And WRT Awoo, BNL seems like an awfully weird choice for him to make if he is scum looking for a counterwagon. If he's scum it was just a move to gain towncred and I don't think that's the move that scum looking for towncred is especially likely to make.
The second world, Awoo simply wasn't aiming for a counterwagon. Awoo as scum isn't going to just try and form a counterwagon to try and escape the noose; Awoo as scum actually tries toavoidforming a blatantly scumdriven counterwagon, and does exactly what you describe: attempt to garner towncred in a believable fashion, so that the pressure to lynch Awoo fades on its own.
Guess what I think your play here is dead on the money as being? It is exactly what you say: really intellectual. That was the first fucking red flag I picked up from the onset in your posting; the fact that you were ridiculously stilted.In post 239, Awoo wrote:play really intellectual
And this is scum whiteknighting BulletNLynchproof because they know that BNL is a mislynch in the making--yet while stating BNL is their strongest townread, they do absolutely nothing to dissuade people from voting BulletNLynchproof and give no thoughts on the players wagoning him. Is the wagon scumdriven (yes), and if so, who? (I'll give my thoughts in a bit.) Is the wagon towndriven (no), and if so, why are the scum off of the mislynch? (They aren't.)In post 262, Myloninja13 wrote:Woah, why is BNL being wagoned? He's like my only strong townread here lol.
There's nothing there other than the empty statement of what the read is, and that ispreciselywhat scum do when whiteknighting.
The only way for this list to contain so much as one scum is if Myloninja were town. (But they aren't.) And if Myloninja were town, it would contain precisely that amount, one scum no more but also no less.In post 274, Ms Marangal wrote:I think of these, espe, implosion and Errant are my top picks
One guess as to the name I'd most exclude from there.
Yes, most likely one from each!In post 296, implosion wrote:My new townset-that-I-feel-pretty-okay-about: {EP,Awoo, mutantdevle, Maragnal}.
The people that I would like to call town right now but give me significant trepidation in doing so are {Wisdom,kokichi, Pine, mastina}.
This leaves a new, 100% improved scumset of {BNL,mylo, the worst, espeonage}.
There are very clearly 3 scum in that set.
Repeat after me.In post 335, BNL wrote:Okay, AWOL just typed out a one hour response to my post. I don't think scum would do that.
Effort != Alignment.
Effort != Alignment.
EFFORT DOES NOT EQUAL ALIGNMENT.
I would literally lynch the entirety of the BulletNLynchproof wagon--and for good reason, too. Three of the names on it are literally in my bottom four fucking reads. My strongest scumread (Awoo), my tertiary scumread (Kokichi Oma), and my peripheral scumread (Espeonage). And yes, I would lynch implosion here too just because of how absolutely shitty his vote there is.In post 345, KittyMo wrote:
If Myloninja is scum, then there are two scum on the wagon there 100% guaranteed; if Myloninja is town (doubtful, but hey, I'm never 100% on my scumteams D1 so you never know), then there are three scum on that wagon, 100% guaranteed. It is a literal picture perfect definition of a scumdriven wagon and quite frankly it might be literally the worst wagon I've ever seen in my entire mafiascum career. (I mean, little hard to tell, been in literally hundreds of games each of which have dozens to hundreds of wagons so I've seen a lot of shitty-ass wagons, but. I legit can't think of a way to top this.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I wouldn't call it ridiculously overblown, but I would call it mechanically orchestrated.In post 354, the worst wrote:did you find Awoo's reaction to BNL's read shift ridiculously overblown as well?
I know this is getting meta af but her calling BNL's change of read out on feeling like.. fake and mechanically orchestrated, felt fake and mechanically orchestrated....-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Also,
Myloninja's strongest townread, by Mylo's statement, is the lead fucking wagon.In post 345, KittyMo wrote:
What is Myloninja doing about it?
Voting a player BulletNLynchproof isn't voting anymore, and as a vanity vote no less; Myloninja is not even trying to form a counterwagon to the wagon on BulletNLynchproof.
You can also see thesestunningcontributions to the game:In post 99, Myloninja13 wrote:Yo I'm back.In post 102, Myloninja13 wrote:Not really much, I get their reasoning? I haven't really done many towny things yet lol.
In post 109, Myloninja13 wrote:I feel like I should mention something related to the Encore idea, but I'm worried I'll get scumread for it. Should I say it?In post 111, Myloninja13 wrote:I have literally never been a town PR in any completed game here.In post 113, Myloninja13 wrote:After I have dinner, I can answer that!In post 117, Myloninja13 wrote:Oh. So do you want me to link my two scum games though?In post 225, Myloninja13 wrote:Hi sorry I can get to this today!
To his credit, you can maybe call these content, but only if being extra-generous:In post 303, Myloninja13 wrote:Hi guys, I heard my name being mentioned!In post 119, Myloninja13 wrote:Your vote. You were my strongest town read, so I sheeped your vote.In post 121, Myloninja13 wrote:That's fair, but it's better than my personal alternative of no vote.In post 262, Myloninja13 wrote:Woah, why is BNL being wagoned? He's like my only strong townread here lol.In post 305, Myloninja13 wrote:I don't know lol.In post 306, Myloninja13 wrote:I don't think its BNL or you though, if that helps!In post 308, Myloninja13 wrote:He's my obligatory "Strong player" townread.
The only content from him I'd call unambiguously as content would be these:In post 310, Myloninja13 wrote:Without really intending to, I generally find an experienced player who is townish, and just sheep them until I have any idea on what to do. This game, it's BNL!
(As a reminder, Awoo is scum and Kokichi Oma is probably scum as well.)In post 115, Myloninja13 wrote:I think you're town, just by consistent strong playing. I don't know why Mutant was scumread for his PR-no-crumbing idea, and the rest of his play looks similar to his town game I've seen.
I want to townread Awoo, but I can't justify why I do? I think I'm having a rare gut read with that, but considering my history of gut reads I'd likely not trust this one lol. Don't really trust implosion, but I have bias there because I've lost every town game where I was lynched day 1. I'm just confused about Kokichi lol.
Not really any other reads here, sorry. Would you like me to link my two scum games here?
He has had 20 posts to give content and contribute to the game, yet half the time he is prod dodging and the other half of the time he is giving as little content as humanly possible while still producing content.In post 313, Myloninja13 wrote:Simple questioning, being calm but still playing and also not immediately scum reading me helped.
implosion said "Designated lynch" and I was out lol. Even if that was a joke, I just ahhh at that phrase.
Wisdom hadn't really caught my attention yet then.
And I kinda just didn't like mutants posting.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Effort doesn't equal alignment.In post 361, implosion wrote:mastina, @358, aren't you the one who just stressed that effort != alignment?
Lack of effort can and does.
It's NOT a two-way street; you know why we had the expression "Lynch All Lurkers" and when people stopped willing to do that lurking became an acceptable (albeit boring) strategy for scum to employ?Because lurking is an effective, massively pro-scum strategy to utilize.
Bad explanation, but the point holds true regardless.
Scum can, will, and DO lurk because lurking both active and otherwise is an effective tactic. Laying low and letting the big town names fight each other and rip themselves to shreds is the de facto method of winning as scum. It works because by lurking, you avoid drawing attention to yourself; by avoiding drawing attention to yourself, you are less likely to be wagoned/lynched, investigated, or vig-killed, leading you to have more free-reign to do as you please.
Is lurking inherently indicative of scum? No, not in of itself. But when paired with other factors, it's a damn strong tell, and those other factors are present.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Btw before I forget:
MOD: I will be V/LA from Friday to Sunday, withabsolutely zero internet access.
Wrong. I was MILES more town in Earthbound.In post 389, the worst wrote:mastina is townier here than I've ever seen her before
I'd deserve nothing less! (Would also save me the time/effort of reevaluating and give me a convenient scapegoat if town loses, too. )In post 379, Errantparabola wrote:
If, in the long run, i end up helping you out with the awoo wagon, and you're wrong at 90% certainty, i'm going to vig you -- are we in agreement?In post 353, mastina wrote:Well it was 80%, but the more I read, the stronger my certainty becomes; it now sits at more like 90%.
Hi guy! This is blatantly coasting!In post 403, Myloninja13 wrote:Hi guys! This is a cool set-up!-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Actually, I amIn post 445, the worst wrote:she's not remotely easy to readincrediblyeasy to read. I ooze town when town. I just utilize various psychological manipulations to keep people from lynching me when scum. So I don't really look town as scum, so much as it is I don't look like your preferred lynch as scum.
No, Pine has just as long a track record of misreading me as I do him, if not longer. The player you want to trust in reading me is mastina; she never gets the read wrong.In post 445, the worst wrote:there are some people on this list who can probably do an ok job of it (Pine jumps to mind, allowing they're not literally scum together).
Yeah you don't know me so I'll give you a pass on this, but.In post 432, BNL wrote:Mastina's posts also don't sit well with me.
She went into hiding for a while
Never make this accusation again.
It has NO place in a mafia game.
...But there were?In post 432, BNL wrote:there were no change in her reads.
Except IIn post 432, BNL wrote:I also find it funny how she calls Mylo out for white knighting me and not driving the wagon off me when I see that she's doing the same thing.havebeen trying to drive the wagon off of you?
Like.
Calling the wagon the literal worst wagon I've ever seen in my entire mafia career is a little hard to top, in terms of trying to drive the wagon elsewhere.
He's really not. Here, lemme show you:In post 447, BNL wrote:Pine is currently being unreadable.
The things Pine have been doing generally show him to be town, but there's an utter lack of presence in signs that it's deliberate. No forced townness, no hidden scum beneath the town, no visible manipulation, no clear faking, just a level of naturalness which is pure.In post 177, mastina wrote:
Not quite, actually. You're on the right track, in that it has to do with what Pine's doing versus what he's not doing, but Pine as scum does have some obvious signs that here are absent; his approach this game is precisely what I'd expect from him as town.In post 92, Errantparabola wrote:Pine: I wonder if mastina is seeing the same thing that I'm seeing here, to put Pine so high off of just a couple posts -- I'd expect him to have big scum shoes to fill, and perhaps he'd be a little more involved here.
But while a player can be both pure and natural without it being town (such things I'd dub as "indicative of person" rather than alignment), I've known Pine long enough to say that I'm PRETTY sure the natural pureness I see from him isn't his base persona alone, so much as his base state as town; there is a tint of alignment in the natural pureness.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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No, on D2 I was actually LESS town in Earthbound; I traded townness for read accuracy. I was at my strongest levels of town on D1.In post 484, the worst wrote:
on d2 sure, call it a d1 comparisonIn post 483, mastina wrote:Wrong. I was MILES more town in Earthbound.
Frankly I could hop on right now if it weren't a hammer. It's not a bad wagon by any metric.In post 485, implosion wrote:mastina, opinion on Espe? Bad lynch, or just inferior lynch?
If Myloninja is scum, then he is the only scum on the wagon; all five other voters are town.
If Myloninja is town, even better; it is almost certainly an all-town wagon. (There is one name thatcouldbe scum, but they are less likely.)
If the base chance was 0%, Espeonage has a 40% overall chance of being scum: not confscum levels, but far, far, far, FAR higher than most players. (Not the highest, but still high.)
It's a towndriven wagon, on a player who has a significant chance to flip scum.
Absolutely yes I'd join it in a heartbeat.
It's not the wagon with the highest chance of flipping scum. I'd expect Espeonage to flip town 60% of the time in fact, making it not the best wagon we could get. But it's CERTAINLY not a bad wagon by any means; quite the opposite, it couldn't get any better.-
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Hey, Awoo.In post 494, Espeonage wrote:I'm a vt, much to my chagrin. Especially with how many cool powers I have had in the past. I either hinted or claimed this earlier bc I was pretty pissed about it at the start of the day. Idr
I suppose this is also open to Myloninja, as well.
But.
I have a challenge for you.
You want to prove yourself town, right?
Well then if you're town you can pick up on what the issue with this claim is, something specific to VTs which is why I am naming you two in particular.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I'm not almighty, I'm just situationally powerful. There are times where I am really, really,In post 522, the worst wrote:BNL have you played with or witnessed the almighty mastina in action before now?reallygood; there are times where I'm notterriblebut am one of the worse town players in the game. I rate myself overall as mediocre-good: the times where I do good, I REALLY do good; the times I do mediocre, I REALLY go mediocre.
Usually I can tell which is which, though I do have some games where I swear I sucked and yet I was objectively awesome and games where I swore I was on the right track only to be shown utterly wrong. If I had to guess, this game would be somewhere between the two; I wouldn't think I haveallthe scum on D1, but I think Ihavescum on D1 and that most or all of my stronger townreads are town--so, not perfect, but good enough to still be good.
Those scumreads haven't changed, sure, but other reads have.In post 521, BNL wrote:Iirc your first page reads were Awoo Mylo KO scum. Your latest reads stayed the same. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I'd like to remind you that you specified vigging me.In post 597, Errantparabola wrote:I'm definitely down to chainlynch Awoo, then mastina, see them both flip town, and lose the game
Vigging me after being wrong on Awoo is acceptable (because death during night phase saves me the effort of needing to...well, do anything)--but lynching me after being wrong on Awoo is onlyconditionallyacceptable.
The condition there is that you give me the time to reread, give new thoughts, new updated reads, more in-depth reasoning, and not ignore me when I flip town and actually put stock into said effort and reads.
But otherwise, deal remains unchanged; the offer still remains. Would gladly die if Awoo would flip town.
But Awoo won't, so it's all a moot point anyway.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Nope! Noooooooot even remotely close.In post 606, Myloninja13 wrote:It means that scum are unlikely to night kill us?-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Well, 2/3 aint bad. (Esp is the third, obv.)
And yes, this is an up-to-date statement.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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This is true!In post 716, Wisdom wrote:because awoo is town
Absolutely not, no, but I'm finding it hard to describe why not without giving it away. (It's not because of my role, it's not because of Awoo's role obv, it's because of someone else's. I wish I could give details, but doing so would out them. But suffice to say: yes, person, I got the message loud and clear; Awoo is town.)In post 743, implosion wrote:mastina, do you still think Awoo is scum?-
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Oh.
Forgot to do this:
VOTE: Myloninja.
But would also vote Kokichi Oma in a heartbeat.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Awoo
BulletNLynchproof
mutantdevle
Pine
Errantparabola
Ms Marangal
the worst
implosion
Kokichi Oma
Myloninja13
Here, have my readslist without spaces. (I have good reason for not giving spaces; I'm trying to hide one or two things which spaces in my reads would give away.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Don't forget I also know there's an investigative with a hard-innocent on Awoo. But, RE: planning:In post 836, implosion wrote:This is already alotof town power claimed between full tracker, 2-shot weak doc, BNL's role and vengeful modified babysitter.
Okay, so like.In post 831, Kokichi Oma wrote:I'm the role from NSG's game. I thought wisdom was scum. Cause he said I was scum but didn't push me like he always does when he scumreads me
I am 95% sure this is bullshit.
And I want to lynch it.
I really, really,reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeallywant to lynch it.
But dammit.
In the off 5% chance it's legit.
I can't.
Because if the claim WERE true...then it'd just be too good to pass up on; we'd be killing three birds with one stone.
To explain,
You're actually underestimating the utility here.In post 850, Awoo wrote:So basically we get 2 lynches if we vig kokichi tonight.
It's nottwolynches.
It'sthree.
Today, we should lynch the player most widely scumread aside from Kokichi Oma. (My preference would be on Myloninja.) Lynch #1.
Kokichi Oma gets vigged by BulletNLynchproof. Lynch #2.
If Kokichi Oma's role is real, he targets the second-most-widely scumread player (aside from himself, of course). That player, if you assume Kokichi's roleclaim is real, also dies. Producingthreelynches. (My preference would be on implosion.)
Oh and then there's the investigative on top of that, who simply targets a name outside of Kokichi Oma/second-most-widely-scumread-player/the worst/BulletNLynchproof (all of which would be a waste).
If we lynch scum today and Kokichi Oma is scum, we win overnight.
If we lynch scum today, Kokichi Oma is town, and targets scum, we win overnight.
If we lynch town today and Kokichi Oma is scum, we're still positioned well tomorrow. Our top three lynch candidates are all dead, with one scum remaining.
If we lynch town today and Kokichi Oma is town, targeting scum, we still are positioned well tomorrow. Our top three lynch candidates are all dead, with one scum remaining.
Even if we lynch town today, Kokichi Oma is town, and targets town, we are STILL positioned well tomorrow; our top three mislynches just got removed in one fell swoop, making it MUCH easier to POE the game and ten times harder for scum to hide.
Sadly, it does mean that even though there's a 95% chance Kokichi Oma's a scumfuck we let him live, but. He's dead tonight anyway, soooooo.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Err. Small correction.
In this instance, we only get two lynch candidates dead, but the point still remains; we end up with one scum remaining and are positioned incredibly well. It might not be aIf we lynch town today and Kokichi Oma is scum, we're still positioned well tomorrow. Our top three lynch candidates are all dead, with one scum remaining.foolproofplan, but it's guaranteed to give us a MASSIVE edge.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Which still results in our top three scumreads dead.In post 858, Awoo wrote:OK lets be realistic though worst case scenario: scum have a roleblocker and block BNL tonight and we lynch kokichi tmr, still assuming he is town and putting our top kill on the wagon.
Oh, and said roleblocker?
If said roleblocker is on BulletNLynchproof, they arenoton the worst, andnoton the investigative out there that inno'd you.
That, assuming they even have a roleblocker*; if they don't, they be fucked. (And, by the way, given this game mechanic? Not just anyone can actually be a roleblocker; only certain specific players could be a MAFIA Roleblocker.)
Scum, no matter what, face a lose-lose scenario, so.
*Mind you, the actual pool would be roleblocker/doctor/jailkeeper/rolestopper/redirector/busdriver/alien, to be a little more technically precise, but. SAME PRINCIPLE APPLIES; thepointis, there's only a small number of players who could have those roles even aspossible, and most of said roles are not that common to be mafia except for the mafia roleblocker, so for the sake of brevity you can basically just go "mafia roleblocker" to convey the same meaning as "mafia roleblocker, doctor, jailkeeper, rolestopper, redirector, busdriver, or alien".-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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(When I have more time, I may actually compile the list of players who could have those roles. I think it's a fairly small pool. As in, I think that pretty much the only players who could have it are implosion, Marangal, and Pine, small, but I'll try to verify that when I get the chance. Maybe tonight, but probably not; I have a lot of obligations. Can definitely do it tomorrow, though!)-
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(Oh, Errant too. But I'm pretty sure mutant, Mylo, and myself have no scumgames with those roles.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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If you want to lynch scum, lynch implosion because implosion is, 100%, Kokichi Oma's partner.In post 866, the worst wrote:we should probably just like lynch the scum
Do you want me to show you their isos side by side and how they treat one another, or do you want to go look it up yourself?
Because, uh.
Yeah.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Yeah, no. That would be massively, MASSIVELY anti-town at this point given that I know who the fourth investigative claim is and I would prefer it if as few options as possible were outed for it.In post 883, implosion wrote:And we should probably just massclaim, frankly.
OR, the implosion wagon is free of scum because it's fucking ON scum.In post 892, the worst wrote:who's scum meant to be on this wagon?? pine or ep I guess???
In post 881, Kokichi Oma wrote:Implosion is prob town, dont lynch him
Case 'n' point for who Kokichi's scumbuddy is.In post 882, Kokichi Oma wrote:Also I'm shooting who I want if you shoot me BNL
This is literally just the icing on the cake choke full of partner tells between the two, spanning the whole game.
Precisely.In post 893, the worst wrote:or implo lol it's surprising kokichi hasn't made the survivalistic vote
Why do you suppose, exactly, that implosion with his life in danger didn't vote Kokichi?
Why do you suppose, exactly, that Kokichi with his life in danger didn't vote implosion?
It's because they are hoping for a mislynch today.
VOTE: implosion.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I'm not.
implosion's claimed role can't be proven and makes perfect sense as a mod-provided fakeclaim as a result. He also has an excuse to showing up as a guilty to fairly probable investigatives. Neapolitan? "I'm a PR!" Gunsmith? "I have a gun!" Vanilla Cop? "I'm not vanilla!" And yet, in spite of being able to claim as much, he has no ability to actually prove his role because the game doesn't actually have a vig proper.
It's a glorified named townie claim, one which gives an excuse to be seen as guilty to investigatives but one which can never be proven.
In other words. The perfect safeclaim.
I believe it is the claim the mod provided to him.
I believe it is the role he breadcrumbed.
But there is such a thing as fakeclaiming as scum, as breadcrumbing a fakeclaim as scum, and that is precisely what implosion did.
Bonus points: that crumb is so incredibly subtle that if implosion were to so choose, he could just fakeclaim VT from any game of his choice should he have later chosen to not go through with the claim for whatever reason. (It happens. Just because you plan on claiming one role, doesn't mean you're committed to claiming that role; you can always change what your planned claim is later if need be, even if the change is simply a change from PR to VT.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Let's not assume the mafia have some mystical magical role until we actually have proof the mafia have some mystical magical role.In post 917, BNL wrote:Still would like to shoot Koki to confirm myself as town, but I do see concern with potential scum roleblocker.
So, let's not assume the vig on Kokichi Oma will fail, until we have proof that it has failed.
If the vig on Kokichi Oma fails, that in of itself generates useful setup information for us to have; it incredibly narrows down the list of players who could be scum.
If the vig on Kokichi Oma doesn't fail, we're not only left with a dead scum (which, if we lynch scum today, ends the game in a town win), but also with the information that scum couldn't stop it or for whatever reason chose not to stop it. Which is, in of itself, useful information to have available.
In other words.
Lynch scum today, vig Kokichi Oma the scum tonight.
And my belief is that the final scum is implosion.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Because then you have to deal with BulletNLynchproof as conftown, the worst as conftown whose track conftowns players, and an unknown third investigative somewhere in the midst that could guilty you or produce a hard inno on a prime mislynch candidate, e.g. Myloninja.In post 942, implosion wrote:Why would I, as scum with Kokichi, care at all if he's getting lynched today? He's dead tonight anyway.
Whereas by letting Kokichi Oma live, you're allowing him to live into the night.
Because scum want to know the roles of players so that they can salvage what is otherwise an unwinnable game for them. Denying them that opportunity is pro-town; trying to give it to them is pro-scum. You advocating for a massclaim is advocating for giving scum a road map to salvation.In post 942, implosion wrote:Okay. So from your point of view with knowledge I don't have, it's anti-town. Great. Why is this a point in favor of calling me scum?
Which is exactly what you'd do as scum when given a bad hand.
It doesn't matter if you were given a safeclaim by the mod or not; the point remains that your claim remains the perfect fakeclaim because it is not a role which can be proven and yet it is a role which gives an excuse for certain investigatives receiving guilties on you.In post 943, implosion wrote:I don't think scum have been given fakeclaims:
Doesn't mention any addition of fakeclaims. And I don't see why they'd be given fakeclaims in a game where they can literally pick and choose one from their entire history of games.Kmo wrote:Other slight modifications to Role PMs may include: linking to the game the role PM was originally from, removal of fakeclaims, references to mechanics specific to an inapplicable game theme, and edits for clarification.-
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Yeah no. Your Espeonage interactions and his interactions with you were actuallyIn post 949, implosion wrote:I'd also argue Espeonage and my play should be pretty clearly not scum-scum. In both directions.the cause of my townread on you tanking.
In post 948, the worst wrote:mastina can you throw me a few things you find partner indicative between implo/koki? I'm currently not really sold but if you can throw some comments at me with your usual level of conviction I'll have another squiz.Kokichi Oma's playing his scum meta interactions with implosion to a T; implosion is playing his scum meta interactions with Kokichi Oma to a T. It's a little bit harder to demonstrate the Kokichi side, so I admit this is mostly implosion, but that in of itself should tell you something here.Spoiler: Ask, and ye shall receive-
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BulletNLynchproof is conftown regardless of lynching Kokichi Oma today or not. Nobody's going to lynch him in the game, ever, regardless of whether his role is proven or not, because he claimed aIn post 951, implosion wrote:...what? lynching Kokichi today is the way to STOP bnl from getting a chance to become conftown.provable role. Something scum would not be inclined to do. LEAST of all, in a game featuring this particular mechanic, the Encore nature of it leading to players being easily able to verify aspects of the claim.
(Note that Kokichi Oma's role is only proven on his death, so that doesn't count as claiming a provable role. BNL claimed a role which is provable with BNL living to tell about it the day after.)
You know they exist because I, a town player, am telling you they exist. And if I am telling you that they exist, that means that they exist because I as a town player have no reason to lie about their existence. And your lack of understanding about this third investigative isIn post 951, implosion wrote:I still don't understand why there's this mysterious third investigative. Or why I would know they exist as scum and would therefore be playing around them.part of what makes it problematic.
You DON'T understand how I could know there's an investigative unclaimed with an Awoo innocent yet have it not be me, but that is precisely the case. (I'd tell you how I know, but that'd give away the precise player for those astute and/or thorough enough.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Yes, this would be what I am referring to.In post 955, implosion wrote:The one game where I did vote a scumbuddy (floral mafia) I committed to a scumread on her early off of the vote.
Okay, then question.In post 956, implosion wrote:BNL has claimed a provable role. The situation that allows his role to be proven is by not lynching Kokichi today. It not being provenmeans that it is not proven.
Would you ever lynch a player who claimed a provable role D1 as scum in this game, featuring this mechanic?
I sure as fuck wouldn't.
Thus, he's conftown regardless of whether the shot is made or not.
And?In post 961, Ms Marangal wrote:Mastina, that crumb is pretty fantastical.
What makes spectacular breadcrumbing inherently indicative of alignment?
Are you saying implosion isn't capable of it as scum?
I may be misremembering it but I do believe he himself has said otherwise.
I won't argue it's not a good breadcrumb, because simply put, it is.
I will argue that breadcrumbing is not in of itself proof of the role.
Roles, in this game, may indicate alignment given the game mechanic so I can't exactly use the exact quote of my saying, but thesentimentbehind it, I most certainly can:
Roleclaim != alignment.
If it did, we'd be clearing Kokichi Oma.
Which is, quite self-evidently, preposterous.
It doesn't matter to me if it's a mod-provided safeclaim or he fakeclaimed it on his own. The points I raise about why it is a convenient claim hold the same; the points I raise about it being something convenient and flexible hold all the same.In post 961, Ms Marangal wrote:Do you think its that plausible that scum implo chooses which of town prs is his fake claim and crumbs it in the way he just did?
Well aside from the "mod safeclaim" angle (in which case why the fuck not use the claim the mod provided to him), if you assume he fakeclaimed it on his own, then the answer is simple:In post 961, Ms Marangal wrote:Furthermore I'm pretty sure hes had cooler town roles other than backup vig so why choose that one
He's playing to a scum wincon. Hecan'tclaim a "cooler" town role.
He can, under no circumstances, claim a role which is provable. (Because he can't actually prove it. See also, why BNL is conftown.)
He can, probably, not claim VT and get away with it. (After all, Espeonage tried, and failed, in this endeavor.)
He can, under no circumstances, claim a role strong enough where given the town's other claimed roles, his role sticks out.
He can, under no circumstances, allow himself to be caught by town PRs.
All of these, his claim is convenient for. His claimed role is a guilty result to half the probable investigatives in the game, making him a pseudo-miller; why the fuck would that be a bad claim? His claimed role can't be proven; why the fuck is that a bad claim?
Oh really?In post 957, implosion wrote:and you telling me now that a third investigative exists
does not mean that i knew it existed when i was advocating massclaimIn post 793, mastina wrote:
Absolutely not, no, but I'm finding it hard to describe why not without giving it away. (It's not because of my role, it's not because of Awoo's role obv, it's because of someone else's. I wish I could give details, but doing so would out them. But suffice to say: yes, person, I got the message loud and clear; Awoo is town.)In post 743, implosion wrote:mastina, do you still think Awoo is scum?In post 797, mastina wrote:Here, have my readslist without spaces. (I have good reason for not giving spaces; I'm trying to hide one or two things which spaces in my reads would give away.)In post 856, mastina wrote:
Don't forget I also know there's an investigative with a hard-innocent on Awoo.In post 836, implosion wrote:This is already alotof town power claimed between full tracker, 2-shot weak doc, BNL's role and vengeful modified babysitter.
Oh and then there's the investigative on top of that, who simply targets a name outside of Kokichi Oma/second-most-widely-scumread-player/the worst/BulletNLynchproof (all of which would be a waste).In post 859, mastina wrote:If said roleblocker is on BulletNLynchproof, they arenoton the worst, andnoton the investigative out there that inno'd you.
So the suggestion to massclaim was madeIn post 883, implosion wrote:And we should probably just massclaim, frankly.beforeI stated there was another investigative, you say?
Do tell.
Or are you going to claim you never read any of those in spite of literally over half of them directly involving you?
If anyone had any doubts about implosion, they need only look at this point right here because this is bad on a horrendous level. I forget what the term is. Maybe misrep, maybe strawman, but what it is is that he's comparing a completely different situation to this one as if it were equal.In post 956, implosion wrote:
You also told me awoo was scummastina wrote:You know they exist because I, a town player, am telling you they exist.
I said that Awoo was scum on D1, based off of my read there and my understanding of Awoo's meta.
I am saying today that there is an investigative role with a hard innocent on Awoo.
Comparing the two is comparing apples to oranges. Actually, comparing apples and oranges would have more in common with one another than comparing the two situations because the two situations have literally nothing in common.
Stating Awoo was scum was a read.
Stating there is a fucking power role with an innocent on Awoo is not a read.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Fuck.
Awoo isn't conftown.
I can't tell you the exact question I asked the mod without giving away both the identity and exact role of the "third investigative", but I can do this:
PLAYER WHO TARGETED AWOO:Ask what'd happen if you targeted Espeonage.
The answer you get won't be what you thought it'd be, which VASTLY changes optimal usage of your role.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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(Once home from work, I'll both read and review given that new info, but I actually think even without Awoo as conftown and the investigative not having a clearing result that the investigative and Awoo are both town anyway.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Well keep in mind my running theory is that it's a mod-provided safeclaim, just that it's also a claim which I can see you making without it being mod-provided. But while it is a claim I think can be made without being mod-provided, I still think it to be a mod-given safeclaim.In post 965, implosion wrote:Wait a minute.
Doesn't this disqualify me as scum, by your logic? My role is under some circumstances provable, and as far as theoretical scum-me knows, those circumstances (the existence of a vig) might exist.
But even if not, you claimed after every other roleclaim in the game. Aside from the investigative-which-doesn't-actually-have-the-innocent-on-Awoo-they-thought-they-did, literally everyone in the game who is going to claim a PR, has claimed a PR. So by then, you would have known that your breadcrumbed role was safe to claim.
Keep in mind that just because youlaya breadcrumb, doesn't mean you need tousethe breadcrumb, least of all one as subtle as the one you made. If a vig claim came up which would ruin your planned claim, all you'd need to to fix it is just claim VT.
Sure have!In post 970, implosion wrote:so uh, I just made a random discovery. Namely, that mastina has been a mafia night 2 vigilante before.
...In a game which literally started four fucking days before this game. Check the timestamps: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:52 am, start of that game; Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:18 pm, start of this game. So, did I say four? Make that three fucking days difference. That game just ended very, very quickly in spite of being a contemporary to this game.
The list of possible mafia roles I could be, I gave you:Anything not listed there wasn't completed at the time of this game, or is ineligible for this game.
What this is, then, is a blatant attempt to shade me. Because I told you what I could be, and that wasn't on the list, for very fucking good reason; that game was so barely ongoing that it had almost not even started when this game did.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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What's premature about claiming at L-1 when there are players off the wagon that'd happily lynch you?In post 980, BNL wrote:Also Mastina, why would scum!implosion prematurely claim?-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Hate to put a dampener on this, mutant, but.In post 1004, mutantdevle wrote:I strongly agree with the worst's point of we should lynch kokichi so they can't use their night ability. Like, there's already a lot of town power claimed, and we've had a goon flip. That must mean the other mafia members must be pretty powerful. Scum are going to want to use whatever ability kokichi has.
Whatnight ability?
the worst tracked Kokichi Oma to Wisdom.
Not to Wisdom and some other player.
Kokichi Oma only visited the nightkill.
That means the two possibilities are that Kokichi Oma has no ability he can use and nightkilled Wisdom, or has an ability to use and didn't nightkill Wisdom. As in, is a mafiate without an active PR, or is town.
Those are the only two possibilities.
This is why the idea of lynching Kokichi Oma is so tremendously stupid.
Kokichi Oma is confirmed to not be able to both action and kill. If he had that power, the worst would have seen it.
implosion very likely is a strong mafia power role who CAN both action and kill. Letting him live is playing into the mafia's hands.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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In fact that's important enough for large emphasis.
What I mean by this, is.In post 1087, mastina wrote:Kokichi Oma is confirmed to not be able to both action and kill. If he had that power, the worst would have seen it.
implosion very likely is a strong mafia power role who CAN both action and kill. Letting him live is playing into the mafia's hands.
We fucking KNOW Kokichi Oma visited Wisdom...but we also fucking KNOWhe didn't visit anyone else.
If Kokichi Oma were a scum power role (say, roleblocker, redirector, you get the idea, that sort of role)...the worst would have seen him visit TWO names.
Since the worst only saw him visit one name, Wisdom, it can then be inferred he does not have that sort of a scum power role.
What does that tell you, then?
That the OTHER SCUM PLAYER holds THAT POWER ROLE.
I'm not sure I can explain this concept, will try one more time.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Okay, so.
Let me run it through you.
Basically.
This game has, confirmed, a Weak Doctor.
This game has, confirmed, a tracker.
This game has, basically-confirmed, a Cop-or-Vig.
This game has, basically-confirmed, the existence of a fourth hidden role. (Admittedly though the player isn't hiding their role nearly as well as I'd prefer but OH WELL.)
Everyone agrees that the scum must have a strong counter to this power.
Do you follow that so far?
Okay.
So the scum have a strong counter to this power, yes.
Well then that's going to be a strong power role of some sort.
Except there's a problem with lynching Kokichi Oma.
Kokichi Oma only visited Wisdom.
Because Kokichi Oma only visited Wisdom,we have mod confirmation that Kokichi Oma is not a strong scum power role of some sort.
If Kokichi Oma were a strong scum power role of some sort, he'd be seen visiting two names, or alternatively, a player that didn't die with the second mafiate having performed the kill.
Okay, so if we have mod confirmation that Kokichi Oma is not a strong scum power role of some sort...
...And we have a working theory that scum HAVE a strong power role of some sort...
...Then it stands to reason.
You don't fucking lynch the player you fucking know isn't that strong scum power role.
Kokichi Oma is DEAD. BulletNLynchproof is going to kill him.
Kokichi Oma is confirmed to not be the strong scum power role of some sort.
So what we should be fucking doing.
Is hunting the strong scum power role.
Which is why the lynch today should be implosion.
NOT Kokichi Oma.
implosion can fuck the town over; Kokichi Oma, can't.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Why should he be concerned when him getting lynched is doing what the scum fucking want us to do?In post 1030, the worst wrote:how concerned does kokichi seem about the gamestate rn?
He, the ironically-by-YOU-proven-not-strong-mafia-PR, dies.
Leaving the strong-PR-we-know-exists to have free reign to fuck the town with both the nightkill and its night action.
In addition to not allowing BulletNLynchproof to be conftown beyond all measure of conftown.
Lynching Kokichi Oma is letting the town shoot itself in the foot--almost quite literally!
So why would he be concerned?
Make him sweat by lynching his scumbuddy, on the other hand......-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Because two things:In post 1091, Myloninja13 wrote:So... what's the problem with lynching Koki and leaving less scum, even if they have a power?
One, then that power fucks the town over, because it was left alive instead of lynching Kokichi Oma who is provably NOT that power.
And two...Kokichi Oma is already being vigged. He is already dead. And not only that, but his death confirms BulletNLynchproof as town, or forces scum to kill BulletNLynchproof, but no matter what, he doesn't live.
What I mean by this is.
Kokichi Oma is already guaranteed to die this game.
Lynching Kokichi Oma today when he is proven to not be the strong scum power role we are looking for is a mistake.
That,not even going intothe chance, however remote, that Kokichi Oma is town.
No, I don't think he is; yes, I think he's scum.
But the reasons for not lynching a town-Kokichi are self-evident.
Aside from the fact that it's fucking lynching town rather than scum.
There's also that his role could be utilized to get a triple-lynch in the form of his target, himself, and today's lynch.
If Kokichi Oma is town, he is the literal worst fucking lynch today possible.
If Kokichi Oma is scum, he is provably a far less optimal lynch than his scumbuddy because we already fucking know he's not a strong power role because if he were a strong mafia power role he'd have not performed the nightkill, AND he is also still likely dead due to BNL.
So regardless of his alignment.
He's a shitty-ass lynch.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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So?In post 1092, BNL wrote:Mastina in the rules it is confirmed that scum cannot both action and kill in the same night.
Doesn't change the problem.
Kokichi Oma is confirmed to have visited Wisdom.
If that was the mafia nightkill, it means he didn't use a role.
If he didn't use a role, it means either he doesn't have one, OR HIS SCUMBUDDY'S ROLE IS JUST THAT MUCH MORE POWERFUL.
The last scum then has access to that role which could do more damage than you realize, depending on what it is. Said player may be able to falsely clear themselves utilizing this role and forfeiting the nightkill, or falsely frame town without using the nightkill.
I'm fairly certain that Kokichi Oma's claimed mafia roles he's held is an accurate claim, that he has in fact never been an active role. We know he's not the scum IC due to the non-bastard nature of the game, leaving godfather (WHY THE FUCK WOULD A GODFATHER COMMIT THE NIGHTKILL), encryptor, or goon.
Kokichi Oma's confirmed to be worthless.
What that means, then.
Is that his scumbuddy holds a role of tremendous strength.
If his scumbuddy holds a role of tremendous strength.
Then they are capable of fucking the town over without being caught doing so, nightkill be damned.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I think the results of the night speak for themselves as an "I fucking told you so" moment. (Mostly referring to the fact we're on evens, we have no definitive investigative results, and no players who are objectively absolutely cleared, even if some are subjectively soft-cleared and close to hard-cleared.)In post 1097, BNL wrote:What do you think about the point that having one scum left makes them much more vulnerable to Tracker?
Oh really then?In post 1104, implosion wrote:Because he thought he'd be less likely to be tracked than his scumbuddy.
Do tell.
Because Kokichi Oma was one of the most widely scumread players on D1.
Why the fuck would he belesslikely to be tracked, then?
Absolutely not, no.In post 1125, implosion wrote:surely, this MUST be massclaim day.
Two scum dead, all investigatives (minus Wisdom) alive, scum having no idea who the fourth PR is (and maybe even having shot someone immune to death as a result), massclaiming is absolutely not the play here.
There are only two options for the night as far as I'm concerned.In post 1142, BNL wrote:
Pretty sure he thinks that scum forgot to submit an action, and Mara fits that bill.In post 1138, the worst wrote:not doing anything til Awoo explains dat vote
One, the scum used their role instead of the nightkill. In which case, town is likely in for a nasty surprise at some point.
Or two, the scum attempted a kill on a player that could not be nightkilled. In which case, the scum utterly failed to correctly identify the fourth PR.
There's no other option.
I don't believe a moderator would allow for the town to gain an unfair advantage due to the last scum needing to be (but not actually being) replaced in the night.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Oh.
That was meant to have this:
VOTE: implosion.