Silent Star 1: Lunacy
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Three of your possible PoE could also be argued as LHF, two of which haven’t posted much content. Why is your focus more on posters with less content than more active posters?In post 321, votato wrote:tux is town. lilith is town? kanna is a bit townie based on first impression. but again, need a lot more content. morning is townish, but need a bit more. im less confident in morning being town than most games. could be the gamblers fallacy making me skeptical, or maybe its something else. but town for now. skitter gives me townvibes, but need to see more content. beeboy gives early townvibes? but has been strange. its page 13, so thats about all youre gonna get. that leaves a PoE of
{clover, midway, nahdia, raven, drusilla}. midway im not willing to lynch at this stage, but mostly because hes LHF and will probably be obvscum later on if scum. im happy leaving my vote on clover pending content from the other slots.
This is pinging me a bit. It reads like, if I can’t push Clover, i’ll shift my focus to the lower content posters, which in general is something scum tends to do more than town.-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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The more I read from this game, the more confused I get. I’m liking Votato a bit better now but I still don’t understand why Clover is his #1 scumread.
I have 0 experience with Lillith but nothing she’s posting is particularly pinging me.
Anyone here have meta on Nadhia? I’m having the most trouble trying to parse her.
@Dunn, can you please answer my Skitter question? Thanks.
And thanks @mod for preventing me from undue eyestrain.-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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In post 464, Nahdia wrote:
maybe i should reframe. it's not so much that beeboy is faking it as i have a feeling it's not how town!beeboy would react there. the aggression can be both real and also scummy. i maintain the "I see things clearly other people arent" is out of place tho.In post 293, Clover Ebi wrote:I got light town pings from beeboy because of the frustration because it seemed real to me. In the game I've played with beeboy before he was cool as a cucumber. Do you think he's likely to fake this anger because it's something 'town' him most do as scum? I suppose you could make an argument for saying beeboy wouldn't get mad at scum but the main problem I have is the pretense that he's faking this and that's just not how I took it.
caught up, kinda
votato talking about townblocks all the time feels like buddiyng. not to mention admits he's apathetic as town and has the second-highest posts?
midwaybear gives all kinds of thoughts/analysis and then says they have no reads in 355.
morning tweet seems actually engaged in sorting players.
to answer her question on tux: i did say i thought his entrance was a reach i think? but looking back, it get the feeling scum would be less likely to enter on something so.. elaborate?
That’s interesting, @votato, are you usually this engaged as town? But I don’t understand, Nahdia. Why does talking about townblocks read as buddying to you? This is my problem with you in a nutshell, you make one statement I can kind of agree with, then combine it with another that leaves me scratching my head.-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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I forgot to address this yesterday but can you explain your reasoning for this list? Like why are Tux and votato so high and Clover so low and obviously your PoE. is it ordered and why am I in it because you don’t have a solid read on me yet or have I actually done anything you see as scummy?In post 394, Kanna wrote:i think i'm here right now
<Morning Tweet, Tuxedo Mask, votato>
<beeboy, Dunnstral>
<Clover Ebi, midwaybear>
<skitter30, lilith2013, Raven Branwen, Nahdia, drusilla> -- POE-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Well D1 is hard because it’s only when you get flips that you can really get good reads. I would say that I think it’s extremely unlikely that you and Clover are aligned, so if either one of you flips scum, the other one is very likely to be town.In post 395, votato wrote:i mean i never said my clover scumread was that strong. but its still the strongest scumread i have? i mean clover has a point, but i dont think clover's scumread on me is any better. i think everyone is kinda waiting for scum to appear and reveal themselves, which for some reason they dont seem to want to do.-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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I need to re-ISO her, I see a few people as having done that. Maybe she just expresses it more cohesively than Nahdia?In post 405, votato wrote:
shading people defending dunn as well as people attacking dunn. you were fence-sitting and playing both sides.In post 403, lilith2013 wrote:
did you ever explain what exactly I said that was "stirring up both sides" of the Dunn wagon?In post 160, votato wrote:and is that really your only take away from what has been an eventful 7 pages?-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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I don’t have a very good history of correctly reading Skitter, so I wanted to understand this better, because I’m obviously not seeing that.In post 471, Dunnstral wrote:
I feel like I've answer multiple times, the gist is that it seemed like a fake persona. a.k.a. not how she would naturally type out her posts, and I believe that to be scummyIn post 466, Raven Branwen wrote:@Dunn, can you please answer my Skitter question? Thanks.-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Alright, finally caught up. Why do you think Nahdia and me look like partners? @Skitter? Because I’m genuinely trying to sort her and don’t want to possibly mislynch a slot that I’m still confused about? I don’t understand a lot of her posts but her tone is coming off as kind of genuine. I was a bit worried about Lillith but her wanting to pressure vote me reads townie.
I don’t yet have a strong read on Skitter/Dunn/Beeboy which is why I haven’t posted much about them. I was going back and forth on votato but he is still my strongest scumread and I’m okay with being mislynched providing he’s next.
VOTE: votato
Taking another look at the game, his posting strikes me as very clearly manipulative and I’m not wrong to fos players who place a suspicious amount of focus on LHF. It reads to me as if votato voted me because his preferred Clover wagon wasn’t gaining enough momentum, so I’m good with this vote.
@Skitter, I’ve been spectating a few of your games and I was hit and miss on my read of you.-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Because as I’ve already explained, I don’t know how to read you or make sense of your posting, so it’s slots like yours which I tend to focus on most in general, because town all too frequently mislynches D1 by wagoning the least charismatic players, which seem to be you, me, mwb and drusillia in this game but all of them I find a lot easier to parse than you.In post 613, Nahdia wrote:i mean, there are a lot of slots you just havent spoken on. why the extra effort to sort me in particular?
@raven that is
Scum is more often than not, generally less likely to fall into that category and is usually sofisticated enough to fool people early game.
I always get my spidey senses up when a slot is getting undue pressure, which is why I didn’t want to vote you.-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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In post 614, Nahdia wrote:
i guess. my feeling was just that like, raven and i have both been fairly low impact posters thus far. so it's "easiest" to scumread us because we're not likely to hit back hard.In post 610, skitter30 wrote:
i mean she also explained why she's scumreading her, it's not like she's just going like 'meh skitter isn't here so i'll vote her' or somethingIn post 609, Nahdia wrote:do we have a different definition of LHF or something? what i mean is like, she's pushing the same people she says she needs more content on as scum. the reads feel "easy".
This is why I’m voting votato. This post has never sat right with me and it strengthens my Clover tl as well because it was only after I posted that I thought they were unalligned that he switched his vote to me. Clover unlike votato didn’t react suspiciously to that.In post 321, votato wrote:tux is town. lilith is town? kanna is a bit townie based on first impression. but again, need a lot more content. morning is townish, but need a bit more. im less confident in morning being town than most games. could be the gamblers fallacy making me skeptical, or maybe its something else. but town for now. skitter gives me townvibes, but need to see more content. beeboy gives early townvibes? but has been strange. its page 13, so thats about all youre gonna get.that leaves a PoE of. midway im not willing to lynch at this stage, but mostly because hes LHF and will probably be obvscum later on if scum. im happy leaving my vote on clover pending content from the other slots.
{clover, midway, nahdia, raven, drusilla}-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Is this truly a coincidence, that he switches his vote to me right after this post?In post 595, Raven Branwen wrote:
Well D1 is hard because it’s only when you get flips that you can really get good reads.In post 395, votato wrote:i mean i never said my clover scumread was that strong. but its still the strongest scumread i have? i mean clover has a point, but i dont think clover's scumread on me is any better. i think everyone is kinda waiting for scum to appear and reveal themselves, which for some reason they dont seem to want to do.I would say that I think it’s extremely unlikely that you and Clover are aligned, so if either one of you flips scum, the other one is very likely to be town.-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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In post 618, midwaybear wrote:
that's not how it works...In post 611, Raven Branwen wrote:I’m okay with being mislynched providing he’s next.
I don't really agree with the votes on votato. I feel like a lot of his posts this game have been trying to gamesolve. I feel like he was genuinely trying to sort me with posts 567, 573, and 580. His interaction with lilith also was fine.
I don't think he voted you because his clover wagon wasn't gaining momentum, but perhaps out of part troll(as lilith was pushing him to vote you) and actual scumread.In post 513, lilith2013 wrote:
Do you wanna vote raven then?In post 511, votato wrote:Sorry i agree with you that raven is a better wagon
But Lillith claimed to vote me as a reaction test? How do you read that as a troll? He gave literally no reason for his vote other than I’m “scummier”.In post 578, lilith2013 wrote:
I think her takes have been somewhat similar to MT's, and most people seem to be townreading MT so I guess they also townread Kanna by association? But I don't really think I'm there on either of them yet.In post 574, Clover Ebi wrote:Am I missing out on why Kanna is townread cause I'd love to be clued in.
Sure, that's why I'm pressuring her so I can see if the disconnect I feel is in fact AI.I think it's hard to gauge Ravens 466 without knowing exactly where she was during the catch up. Being disconnected/having a dif viewpoint isn't scummy it's how you present it that should be what you're looking at.-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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How is it not true? He never even commented on that post. Why do you think that is?In post 619, midwaybear wrote:
This isn't true eitherIn post 617, Raven Branwen wrote:Is this truly a coincidence, that he switches his vote to me right after this post?-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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No, I got that directly from an RC quote actually. He was hard defending the LHF in a game whom everyone wanted to lynch and he kept pushing to lynch the player that most players were wrongly townreading and when I asked him how he was so certain that the LHF was town and that other player was scum, that is what he told me and it’s totally changed the way I make reads on D1 as a result. If you really want to get technical, everyone has a 25%/75% of rolling scum/town but in the vast majority of games I’ve played in/spectated, town mislynches LHF about 75% of time due to low charisma. Generally low charisma players have only a greater than rand chance of being scum when they’re newbs/inexperienced. So, if I was playing this in the newbie queue, I’d probably be looking at it differently.In post 624, Kanna wrote:
This seems to be how mafia *feels*, but realistically everyone has a chance of being mafia, right?In post 615, Raven Branwen wrote:Scum is more often than not, generally less likely to fall into that category and is usually sofisticated enough to fool people early game.-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Yes because her tone seems genuine to me, what’s wrong with that? Is she? It reads more than she’s concerned about us both being LHFs in this game. Do you disagree that either of us would be easy pushes to make?In post 628, skitter30 wrote:
because you're making a Big Deal of equivocating over your nahdia read + now nahdia is defending you tooIn post 611, Raven Branwen wrote:Why do you think Nahdia and me look like partners? @Skitter? Because I’m genuinely trying to sort her and don’t want to possibly mislynch a slot that I’m still confused about? I don’t understand a lot of her posts but her tone is coming off as kind of genuine.-
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So, are you townreading him now? What do you think of my votato read?In post 631, skitter30 wrote:
that's a good questionIn post 620, Kanna wrote:@skitter, why is doubling down in the first 2 posts scummy, but doubling down in the bottom one townie? what is your read on dunnstral/has it changed?
basically, his rvs vote on me seemed like bs, and he doubled down so it seemed like he was trying to fabricate a push out of nothing.
whereas later, with his lilith read, given how lilith was perceived in thread at the time, it seems like an inoppurtune push for scum to make there as it was a fairly unpopular take, so it seemed townie to me-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Spoiler:
Yes, I have been talking about it a lot which Nahdia mentioned as well and my response to you is the same as what I posted to her. I don’t see why you think that’s “fake” though.
Spoiler:
People keep saying this but so far no one can tell me exactly WHY he did vote me and since he has been banned, we won’t ever know, which is extremely frustrating to me, since he is the only one who could confirm or debunk my reasoning. All I can do know is wait for his replacement to post content.
Spoiler:
Can you tell me why? You keep saying that she’s trying to “tie” herself to me and “defend” me and I agree with Kanna as I don’t see how she’s doing either one of those things with that post. Why is calling us both lhfs read as “partnery” to you at all. I don’t get it.-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Spoiler:
Find me the quote where Nahdia is “defending” me. Calling us both lhfs isn’t defending.
Spoiler:
I don’t and still don’t understand her reasoning for most of her reads which initially pinged me but she comes off as so sincere, it’s really hard to distinguish between confused town and scum posting. Her recent posting and in particular, her questioning of me, makes me lean to confused town. When I compare her posting with votato, it’s literally no contest. I am concerned that she is being scumread because of low charisma and I would rather vote a slot I feel more confident on.
I’m really not liking Skitter pushing us together as buddies. What are your thoughts on that? She keeps buddy reading a post that doesn’t read to me that way at all as her main reason for continuing to push this narrative and I also don’t understand why she feels I should be able to alignment lock anyone today. I’m not even alignment locked on Starbuck/votato rn and should probably unvote her pending more content.
UNVOTE:-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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In post 654, midwaybear wrote:
Yeah, but that's sorta a votato thing to do. He was scumreading you, so when Lillith told him to vote you, he was probably like "screw it lol I'll vote".In post 626, Raven Branwen wrote:But Lillith claimed to vote me as a reaction test? How do you read that as a troll? He gave literally no reason for his vote other than I’m “scummier”.In post 627, Raven Branwen wrote:How is it not true? He never even commented on that post. Why do you think that is?He voted you a long time before you said that.
Funny that you unvoted. Just going with the flow?
Re the bolded. Link=quote? He wasn’t voting me before I made that post but if I’m wrong on that, please correct me.
Why is it “funny”? That slot got replaced and a replacement is a good way to test your reads. Why do I feel that you’re unfairly trying to shade me here? Are you?-
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In post 509, votato wrote:I think im with lilith here. Nahdia hasn't been great. But i don't get strong scum vibes yet. They just haven't done anything. Raven feels scummier. Raven could you provide an annotated realist please?
Okay, I see I was wrong here but he still gave no explanation. I would seriously like to know what you think is wrong with my unvoting a slot that just got replaced pending further content? Are you saying you wouldn’t have unvoted under similar circumstances? @MidWayBear?In post 595, Raven Branwen wrote:
Well D1 is hard because it’s only when you get flips that you can really get good reads. I would say that I think it’s extremely unlikely that you and Clover are aligned, so if either one of you flips scum, the other one is very likely to be town.In post 395, votato wrote:i mean i never said my clover scumread was that strong. but its still the strongest scumread i have? i mean clover has a point, but i dont think clover's scumread on me is any better. i think everyone is kinda waiting for scum to appear and reveal themselves, which for some reason they dont seem to want to do.-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Not even in the slightest. I unvoted because the slot got replaced, no other reason and eventhough I was mistaken about him voting based on that alignment comment, I still think his posting seemed very manipulative and agenday Unfortunately, I will never really find out the real reason he voted me, so I am unvoting pending what Starbuck has to say. I also think it’s kind of weird that that considering I started that wagon, you’d think I’d be so concerned about looking “conspicuous”. If I wanted to do that wouldn’t it make way more sense to sheep an already existing wagon?In post 657, midwaybear wrote:In post 653, Raven Branwen wrote:I’m not even alignment locked on Starbuck/votato rn and should probably unvote her pending more content.
Meh, it just felt like people were defending votato so you tried to inconspicuously unvote while providing that reason(more content). Like trying to subtlety back off.In post 656, Raven Branwen wrote:I would seriously like to know what you think is wrong with my unvoting a slot that just got replaced pending further content?-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Yes, that’s precisely what I’ve been trying to say but I think if she were actually trying to pocket me, she wouldn’t then be asking me why I’ve been giving her slot as much focus as I have.In post 658, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
You gave about the answer I expected. I understand wanting to pressure people that are present in the thread. Though I do still find it weird you didn't acknowledge my posts after my push on Beeboy, or how others responded to those posts. Like you were apparently mindmelding on Beeboy, so did that mindmeld break when they gave reasons for unvoting me, or did you agree? Also, you say now you can continue pursuing it now that you know my view of Dunn, is this it? I kind of thought there would be more for the follow up.In post 647, lilith2013 wrote:Can you explain what you think I should have done instead when I didn't have enough information to feel like I could scumread you?
You didn't address this. What did you mean here?In post 593, Tuxedo Mask wrote:In post 488, lilith2013 wrote:
Idk if it’s really as easy as raven/nahdia but that’s kind of where I’m at
Can you elaborate on this? Something about it feels very off.
Ugh, My quotes keep breaking. Anyways, Raven are you still feeling confused? It seems like you're just having trouble sorting Nahdia, is there something else there now?In post 593, Tuxedo Mask wrote:In post 466, Raven Branwen wrote:
The more I read from this game, the more confused I get.
What is confusing you about this game?-
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Raven Branwen Mafia Scum
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Well after Starbuck replaced in, beeboy unvoted so I thought I should follow suit. I’m assuming his reasoning was similar.In post 666, midwaybear wrote:Fair point about looking conspicuous, but I still don't get the motivation behind why you unvoted. After all, it's not like votato was under serious pressure, and you still say that he seemed manipulative and agenda-y so the unvote doesn't really make sense to me.-
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I will do another catchup in a bit and shock warning: they will very likely be disjointed, disparate and unconnected, like they are every damn game I do catchups (particularly extensive ones). @Lillith
I’m pretty much allergic to wall posts and my strongly preferred stream of consciousness post by post responses kept getting me yelled at and accused of spamming and derailing the game, so this is my best attempt to compromise the way I like to do catchups and still be considered of others.
I also said I was confused primarily about Nahdia’s posting because I was but I’m liking her posting more and more and am starting to develop a strong town lean on that slot.
More to come.-
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I believe that but then you probably don’t have the experience of having people tell you that you clogging up the thread with useless repetitive posts makes it unfun to play with you, because it makes the game unplayable and difficult to read.In post 733, lilith2013 wrote:In post 720, Raven Branwen wrote:I will do another catchup in a bit and shock warning: they will very likely be disjointed, disparate and unconnected, like they are every damn game I do catchups (particularly extensive ones). @Lillith
I’m pretty much allergic to wall posts and my strongly preferred stream of consciousness post by post responses kept getting me yelled at and accused of spamming and derailing the game, so this is my best attempt to compromise the way I like to do catchups and still be considered of others.
I also said I was confused primarily about Nahdia’s posting because I was but I’m liking her posting more and more and am starting to develop a strong town lean on that slot.
More to come.
@both raven and nahdia: I think I just really struggle to see what the underlying thoughts are behind the posts. Raven, I don’t mean to bash on your posting style, it’s something I’m also having trouble with for drusilla, and this is the main way I read people - understanding the thought process behind the posts and whether those thought processes are town indicative or scum indicative. If I can’t get to/understand the thought processes behind the posts, then I form a scumread on that person because I think either they’re trying to hide their thought processes or their thought processes don’t feel like something I could see from town. I think I’d actually prefer the “spammy” stream of consciousness posts tbh, because that would help with letting me see what your thought processes are, but I think I also have a high tolerance for reading posts if my post count is any indication...In post 721, Nahdia wrote:i mean the thought did cross my mind that as scum you don't really have the need to produce this much content.
idk. i guess you do have a reason to be scumreading raven, though i disagree with pretty much the whole thing. even so it's at least a bit less convenient now.
I actually did temporarily revert to that posting style when I made those 4 posts in a row on votato but because it wasn’t a complete catchup, my fear of spamming resulted in my misconstruing the timeline of his posting. I made my post wrongly accusing him of sr me right after I posted my I think he and Clover were unaligned post, BEFORE I read that he thought I was scummy, so I decided that unless I spammed the thread with numerous catchup posts in a row, I was going to continue making those kind of mistakes, so I’m sorry if that makes it harder for you to read me but making posts with several unrelated comments is just the way I do my catchups, so there’s absolutely nothing “disconnected” about that.-
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We will just have to agree to disagree wrt votato’s PoE post. I still consider that to be scummy but I liked Star’s catchup, so I think votato may just be one of those posters who posts scummy irrespective of alignment. It did seem to me that most who tr him were basing that off of meta, so I can see how that’s possible.
But yes, I did/and still do think that him posting that he’s pretty much voteparking Clover unless he can imo switch to one of the lower content posters is something more often than not, I’ve seen scum do, so I think that was avalid read.
As regard to your other question, are you literally not reading my posts because I already explained that when MWB asked me the exact same thing and I just did it again in my most recent post, so I don’t understand why you keep asking me a question, I’ve not only explained once but twice now?-
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@Skitter, what will you do if Nahdia flips town like I think she likely will? tunnel me because you don’t seem to be too interested in looking at any other possibilities? Why are you not considering the possibility that you could be wrong and that Nahdia and I could both be just town?
Nahdia is correct to question why either you or Lillith continue to push this narrative about us somehow being linked, when there have been no flips. I think it’s kind of premature and not terribly productive to be focusing on associatives before we’ve even had a single flip. At this point in the game, it makes way more sense to be trying to form individual scumreads, don’t you agree?-
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@Lillith, that was the main reason I initially scumread that slot. It obviously wasn’t scummy for him to have posted that if he changes his read on Clover, he will look elsewhere. What I found scummy was that his PoE (other than Clover) seemed to be comprised of mainly LHFs: me, Nahdia, Drusilla, MWB. Why was he not interested in looking for scum in the more active higher content posters? That was my concern and that’s something that historically scum tend to do more often than town and he literally never even explained his reasoning for his scumread on me, it read to me as a convenient vote after you pushed him. What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?-
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Please explain HOW? Kanna and Tux have also defended me. Are they “linked” to me as well?In post 744, lilith2013 wrote:I can't find any follow-up engagement with clover where votato tries to engage and sort clover more, and he only started questioning clover again after I did.
pedit: my reads on you and nahdia started as independent reads.nahdia chose to defend you, which links you whether you want it or not.-
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Spoiler:
@Skitter, you’re getting “pushback”, because you are so tunnelled on Nahdia, you are ignoring any signs that point against your read on her. 754 doesn’t sound like a scum reaction to being pushed. I don’t understand how you’re not seeing that.
I’m starting to think you’re confibiasing on her slot. Nahdia’s town, get off of your ridiculous tunnel.-
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Scum historically focuses on LHF because they’re the easiest to mislynch. Sure, it can also come from town but less so. Ngl, if Star hadn’t have replaced in, my vote would still be 100% on votato. I’m not revoting her rn because so far I like what I’ve seen from her and when a slot gets replaced, you need to take into account your read on both players. I particularly like her calling her predecessor’s read on Clover, “lame”. I will need to see a lot more from her before I have a confident read on that slot but so far I like what I’ve seen from her.In post 757, midwaybear wrote:
I don't townread him for that; it's more like not really thinking that was scummy. I townread him for trying to sort people and scumhunt. I honestly don't think the PoE post comes from scum either.In post 745, Raven Branwen wrote:What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?-
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Spoiler:
How do people feel about 638 by Kanna? Do you think scum her goes after Skitter of all people? It's making me scratch my head on how to read it.[/quote]
I think she’s town, her thought processes read very logical and non-agenda-y to me.-
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I really liked 754, it read to me like townie pushback to a bad read. MT, nothing actually pings me so far, so weak townlean for now.In post 768, Clover Ebi wrote:I feel weird that I don't have a read on Morning/Nahdia yet. Maybe I skimmed their posts? Everyone else I can say something on besides those 2. This isn't really me calling them anything more so me coming to my own shock that I don't have a read on 2 activeish slots
True, I have seen that as well, so I don’t understand why either Lillith or Skitter think it suspicious that neither Nahdia nor I are being wagoned. My point was that it has been scum more often than town that has tended to go after the least charismatic slots. That’s exactly what happened in the game where I referenced RC for example. Both scum and town deathtunnelled LHF!Lovebird in that game and incorrectly townread scum!Formerfish. He had a real uphill battle convincing everyone that he was right. That’s why I’m always wary when I see LHF getting wagoned, especially on D1. Not saying LHF can never be scum, just that low charisma is a very poor barometer for reading someone on D1 anyway.In post 769, midwaybear wrote:
Maybe, but my theory was that they will actually focus on tougher targets sometimes to use WIFOM. That's why I initially scumread Dunnstral.In post 759, Raven Branwen wrote:Scum historically focuses on LHF because they’re the easiest to mislynch.-
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I definitely disliked Nahdia’s earlier posting because it looked like she was often contradicting herself but her recent posting has been good, particularly her pushback against the scumreads on her. 754 as I previously stated, reads like a townie reaction. I’m not saying that Skitter has no reason to have qualms about Nahdia but I don’t understand why she is so tunnelled on her. To have Nahdia in her PoE is one thing but I don’t know why she isn’t looking at any other slots. I do agree with you though, it would be a bad look as scum. I just don’t understand why she seems to be so confibiased on that slot. It’s somewhat concerning to me that it’s looking to me like she’s more interested in confibiasing her than sorting. I used to deathtunnel a lot and now I try to listen more to other people’s reads.In post 777, Clover Ebi wrote:
Hm, I think Skitter has brought up some valid points though. Do I agree with all of them? No, but do I think it's just a bad read that you can dismiss? Nope. Why don't you tell me what about it is bad and I'll give you my own thoughts after. I get your read on Skitter is semi scummy so maybe I can give some new insight on it.In post 772, Raven Branwen wrote:I really liked 754, it read to me like townie pushback to a bad read. MT, nothing actually pings me so far, so weak townlean for now.
LHF to me has never really been something I paid much attention to and more so tried to look at the posts itself of said LHF.
pedit: @Modis my vote not on midway? I thought it has been for ages
VOTE: MidwayVOTE:-
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Why?In post 785, Morning Tweet wrote:I am really sorry i havent been able to reread, i have needed more time than i though. I am near certain lilith is town this game so my preemptive guess is i will scrutinize whoever was pushing her earlier
For now,
VOTE: Raven
Do you usually just drop naked votes on players without any explanation?-
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Spoiler:
Not necessarily, scum doesn’t always jump on LHF but it happens more often than not but I think this take is wifom.
Spoiler:
I was initially very suspicious of Nahdia but I don’t agree with yours and Skitter’s take.
Spoiler:
Yes, but you’re conveniently ignoring the fact that you and Skitter keep pushing us together. No one has done that with either me and Kanna or me and Tux.-
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Ironically, one thing I did like about votato’s posting is he wanted more time to sort out MWB. I’m not sure who to vote for yet but I’m sort of getting the feeling that MT is buddying you and I’m also not tr Skitter’s deathtunnell on Nahdia, so rn, I think I’d prefer either to MWB.In post 794, lilith2013 wrote:
Okay, what’s your read on midway then?In post 745, Raven Branwen wrote:What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?-
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What about Starbuck? How did her entrance affect that read?In post 788, lilith2013 wrote:UNVOTE:
I need to reevaluate some things. MT makes me really uncomfortable with how hard she is townreading me for reasons I can’t find. having a lot of second thoughts on votato’s lack of engagement with clover who was supposed to be his strongest scumread and then apparent passiveness in trying to sort the people he put in his poe.-
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I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it does look like you’re genuinely trying to solve this game. Anyway, you’re not someone I think I want to vote today.In post 797, lilith2013 wrote:
How is this wifom exactly? Scum want to mislynch people; I agree on the point that scum often go for LHF because they’re easy to mislynch. It’s really weird that out of both your wagon and the nahdia wagon, neither skitter nor I got any support there (although tbh if you flip town, I think that implicates votato and MT and I’m starting to doubt them for other reasons so I might be coming around to you actually being LHF. I’m just still trying to figure out why it felt so difficult to get people to vote you.)In post 795, Raven Branwen wrote:Spoiler:
Not necessarily, scum doesn’t always jump on LHF but it happens more often than not but I think this take is wifom.
Do you think I’m scum?
I don’t think I was doing that before nahdia started defending you, only after? I mentioned your names together but only because I thought you were both scummy, not because I saw anything partner-indicative. It was only after the nahdia defense that I thought came off really strong that I started thinking about it that way.Spoiler:
Yes, but you’re conveniently ignoring the fact that you and Skitter keep pushing us together. No one has done that with either me and Kanna or me and Tux.-
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Are you asking if I’ve made any kind of list yet? The answer is no.In post 801, lilith2013 wrote:Raven, have you posted reads recently that I could reread?
I still think Kanna, Clover are town. Lean town on Nahdia, Tux. Null on most, still haven’t made up mind on beeboy, Dunn, you. Drusilla isn’t pinging me and I think MWB could possibly be this game’s Lovebird.
So that leaves MT, Skitter and Star, so I will probably vote amongst those three. I would really like to hear more from Star.-
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I really don’t understand this, don’t you think her thought processes have made logical sense?In post 805, lilith2013 wrote:
Hey ftr I don’t think kanna is particularly towny, and also you should have more faith in yourself.In post 767, Clover Ebi wrote:I will admit I've been slowly edging Kanna to my scummy pile but if my townreads are saying she's town I'm more than likely wrong than correct. I should go read Skitter and Nahdia more closely after some tea.
My confident townreads are now looking something like Lilith/Skitter/Beeboy/Raven/Dunnstral-
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Well, I don’t see you expressing suspicion on anyone else. Are you tr everyone but me and Nahdia? Assuming we’re both town, who else do you currently sr?In post 830, skitter30 wrote:
i think you're dismissing the validity of my push my calling me confbiased and tunneledIn post 784, Raven Branwen wrote:I’m not saying that Skitter has no reason to have qualms about Nahdia but I don’t understand why she is so tunnelled on her. To have Nahdia in her PoE is one thing but I don’t know why she isn’t looking at any other slots.
Fair enough, I am in general far better at seeing through bad pushes on me and less good at seeing through pockets but I honestly don’t think anyone is pocketing me here.In post 832, skitter30 wrote:
trying to decide if you're town who tends to townread people who give you townreads and scumreading people who don't, or if you're scum desperately trying to squash scumreads on youIn post 809, Raven Branwen wrote:VOTE: Skitter
Not confident on this. I might switch to MT or Star depending on their catchups.
@Skitter, do you currently have a read on me independent of your read on Nahdia?
The reason why I am so suspicious of the push on Nahdia is precisely because it’s directly tied to me and vice-versa. If you had independent reasons for sr us both, I wouldn’t be so suspicious. If Nahdia and I were not literally being pushed together by both you and Lillith and Nahdia and me were defending each other to this extent, than I’d totally get the linkng, in fact, I might even be a bit paranoid myself but I believe this is happening in large part, as a direct result of that, so no I think it makes very little sense to me.-
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I’m pretty sure you have already asked me a similar version of the exact same questions which I’ve already answered so I doubt very much my response to different variations of them, is going to result in a different answer, so I’m not sure exactly what the point of this is?In post 836, lilith2013 wrote:Raven can I get responses to these?In post 799, lilith2013 wrote:
It seems like midway responded to this, did you have any thoughts on that? Quote below:In post 796, Raven Branwen wrote:
Ironically, one thing I did like about votato’s posting is he wanted more time to sort out MWB. I’m not sure who to vote for yet but I’m sort of getting the feeling that MT is buddying you and I’m also not tr Skitter’s deathtunnell on Nahdia, so rn, I think I’d prefer either to MWB.In post 794, lilith2013 wrote:
Okay, what’s your read on midway then?In post 745, Raven Branwen wrote:What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?
In post 757, midwaybear wrote:
I don't townread him for that; it's more like not really thinking that was scummy. I townread him for trying to sort people and scumhunt. I honestly don't think the PoE post comes from scum either.In post 745, Raven Branwen wrote:What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?In post 803, lilith2013 wrote:Okay then I think I’m back to “I’m still trying to figure out why there weren’t more people jumping on your wagon if you’re town/LHF” unless it’s literally MT and/or votatoIn post 804, lilith2013 wrote:Do you have any thoughts on that?
But okay, I’ll restate. I thought it scummy that votato’s PoE other than Clover was only amongst the LHF posters which I already explained and stand by. As you know, I’m currently re-evaluating that slot due to my liking Star’s entrance.
I think auto assuming that scum will necessarily push/jump on an LHF wagon, is kind of a wifomy read, because I’ve seen games where that’s precisely what did happen and lots of games where it did not. I’m really not sure what answer you’re hoping to get from this?-
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He seems to be sorting and and his reasoning behind his thought processes look to be coming from a townie mindset. I can find you specific quotes as to why I think this. He also seems similar here to a recent town game of his that I spectated.In post 837, lilith2013 wrote:
Also can you explain the Tux read? Can you also explain why you asked me about Tux accusing me of slipping and how my response to that affected your read on either me or him?In post 807, Raven Branwen wrote:
Are you asking if I’ve made any kind of list yet? The answer is no.In post 801, lilith2013 wrote:Raven, have you posted reads recently that I could reread?
I still think Kanna, Clover are town. Lean town on Nahdia, Tux. Null on most, still haven’t made up mind on beeboy, Dunn, you. Drusilla isn’t pinging me and I think MWB could possibly be this game’s Lovebird.
So that leaves MT, Skitter and Star, so I will probably vote amongst those three. I would really like to hear more from Star.
Yes, because the way you were framing your my/Nahdia reads didn’t sound all that different than what Tux had said about it, so I found it rather curious that you accused him of possibly scumslipping with that. Also, eventhough this is a closed setup, it is still a micro, so wouldn’t logic dictate that if Tux had added a third person to his at the time-theoretical team, that would be a lot more suspicious? I just don’t see what about assuming a two person scumteam in micro - closed or otherwise - strikes you as a possible scumslip?-
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You asked if it was really so easy as Raven/Nahida, and then said that's where youSpoiler:
are at. That implies you view them as the scum team. Now this pinged me because its a closed set up, and this comes off like a scum slip. Because you seem to think we're looking for two scum. Why?[/quote]
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I’m used to playing in micros. For whatever reason, I always initially think it’s two scum. I realized after I made that post that it likely was a three-man scumteam, but I still stand behind that post. Even if they’re notthescumteam, I’m still POEd down to them somewhat.[/quote]
Okay, I totally misread this, sorry. @Tux, why did you think Lillith thinking there were two scum in a micro, a “scum slip”?-
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Yeah, it’s definitely a silly accusation and generally overused as well. I was in a game with either a semi-open or closed setup and I correctly figured out the setup by putting together literal clues the mod had posted on the first page. I literally had to spend over half that game fighting off tmi scumreads for guessing correctly.In post 846, lilith2013 wrote:He accused me of slipping, not the other way around-
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Why am I not townie and again, I want just a read on me alone. Let’s imagine Nahdia isn’t in this game, how do you read me?In post 853, skitter30 wrote:
people i townread: lilith, drusilla, mt, beeboyIn post 843, Raven Branwen wrote:Well, I don’t see you expressing suspicion on anyone else. Are you tr everyone but me and Nahdia? Assuming we’re both town, who else do you currently sr?
people that are maaaaaybe townie: clover
people that are maaaaaaybe scummy: dunn, kanna, midway
people aren't townie: you, nahdia
people that i'm unsure on: starbuck, tux-
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Why is that odd? I agree with both Kanna’s and Nahdia’s analysis about that. I think that Skitter is confibiasing both Nahdia’s and my slots and I’m finding it incredibly frustrating that she won’t explain her read on me, other than to once again lump me in with Nahdia and saying I’m “not townie” still with no explanation why that is. That’s in a nutshell the difference I see between Skitter and Lillith. Lillith has actually commented on/questioned and attempted to sort me APART from Nahdia. What I’m still trying to figure out is if Skitter is baddly tunnelled town or scum and her continued lack of any independent analysis/read on my slot isn’t exactly giving me town pings.In post 855, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
I feel this in my bones. Sorry, guys, I think I'm having trouble transitioning from Micro to this. Trying my best to keep up. Anyways...In post 851, beeboy wrote:I am going to be honest here, this game is a solid balance between being very content dense and me not actually being able to get any solid reads. I am not sure if that says more about the game or me as a player.
UNVOTE: Lilith
Sorry, it took so long, but I've just been trying to get to the bottom of some strange anomalies I saw in an overall townie ISO. Most especially was what I view as a scum slip. I think Lilith's answers to my questions were very good, especially since I had to spell out it was a scum slip for her to notice. I think if it was an actual scum slip, scum would have noticed what I mean the first time I highlighted that quote. Also the general frustration I'm picking up from their posts seems townie.
@Kanna, Nahdia, and Raven, why are you voting Skitter? It seems odd that Skitter points out that she thinks Nahdia and Raven might be scum together, and they both end up voting her together.
@Morning where are you at? You're a strong town read from earlier in the game but you've fallen off with being busy. Can I get a quick update on what's going on?
@Lilith how's your revaluation going? I don't feel Morning Tweet is scum. Also, I don't think we've had a wagon get over 3 votes all-day 1 which we should fix. I'd like to quardinate on my top two town reads for this. Skitter can be there too I think, I like Skitter.-
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Yeah, I don’t understand why he’s asking us that when the answers are right in our ISOs like you said but I don’t think his question to MT is bad. I didn’t care too much for that catchup or whatever that was. She claimed she wanted to vote for whomever was pushing Lillith and drops a naked vote on someone who has never pushed Lillith and she has yet to give any reasons either as to why she voted me or obvtown reads Lillith.In post 857, midwaybear wrote:ugh so many people going "woe is me"
I guess I am guilty of this too though. Tuxedo's questions feel a little forced. I think if he really wanted to know why kanna, raven, and nahdia were voting skitter he could have looked at their isos. I don't really see the point in asking morning that either.-
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Why “unfortunately”? I honestly don’t think Nahdia’s scum here and your read on her is misplaced.In post 860, skitter30 wrote:
i realized i know your main so lowkey townie unfortunatelyIn post 856, Raven Branwen wrote:Why am I not townie and again, I want just a read on me alone. Let’s imagine Nahdia isn’t in this game, how do you read me?-
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I’m tired but I will give a few thoughts. First off, I’m really liking Star’s catchup. She seems to be mindmelding with a lot of my takes, so it looks as if votato may be one of those players who just has a scummy playstyle.
@MT, please explain to me why you like Kanna’s analysis on the me/Nadia push but are of the opinion that somehow how me or Nadhia ought to be seeing Skitter’s reasoning if Kanna isn’t? Why the higher bar for me and Nahdia?
Also, when did I ever accuse Skitter of making up anything. Please find/link me that quote. In fact, out of Kanna and Nahdia, I was the most unsure of my read on Skitter and couldn’t honestly tell why she was so fixated on her tunnel. I’m starting to think she might actually believe her Nahdia push, which I still disagree with.
Does anyone else think that the Nahdia wagon is gaining traction relatively fast or is it just me? @Beeboy, if Drusilla is your strongest scumread why are you voting Nahdia?
@Tux, do you have independent reasons for thinking Nahdia is scummy?
@MT, while your catchup is okay, I find your read on me kind of hedgey. Are you having extreme difficulty sorting me or what?
@Beeboy, why am I in your PoE? The other day you said something along the lines of that I’m claiming something that doesn’t exist: LHFs. Why? What game have you been in/ spectated where they didn’t exist?
@Dunn. what is your current read on the gamestate and what is your opinion on the fast growing Nahdia wagon?
Anyway, I don’t want to vote Kanna, Clover, Star, Nahdia and MWB today.-
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So why aren’t you voting her rather than Nahdia?In post 913, beeboy wrote:That's a bad look for when my mlg reads end up being correct and she flips scum!!!-
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I’m not currently sr Drusilla just to be clear, I just don’t understand why bee is insisting she’s scum while voting Nahdia.In post 918, Raven Branwen wrote:
So why aren’t you voting her rather than Nahdia?In post 913, beeboy wrote:That's a bad look for when my mlg reads end up being correct and she flips scum!!!-
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We’ll have to agree to disagree on that then. I don’t think there has ever been/will be a mafia game in existence - unless it were to ever turn pro - where LHFs weren’t in the playerlist.In post 920, beeboy wrote:
I scum read Nahdia, Votato/Starbuck, Drusilla to varying degrees.In post 916, Raven Branwen wrote:@Beeboy, why am I in your PoE? The other day you said something along the lines of that I’m claiming something that doesn’t exist: LHFs. Why? What game have you been in/ spectated where they didn’t exist?
I town read the 5 listed, the rest is people I am trying to sort. I can't just call everyone who puts effort into this game town I don't think I am going to solve the game doing that >_____>
I said this game doesn't have LHFs, at least compared to a typical player list, I think everyone in this game is capable of defending themselves. The 2 new players Tux and Midway are probably among the better 2020 users on the site. Tux can defend his stances even if you think those stances are easily attack-able and Midway pulled some crazy WIM in the last game I played with him. I stand by this statement I think this is a relatively strong player list.
I did sr - hard - votato but what didn’t you like about Star’s catchup?-
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I wasn’t feeling well yesterday. @Star: re: Skittter, I think Kanna explained things fairly well. Re: Tux, I don’t know if it’s newbishness or whatever but it’s kind of annoying that he keeps shading opinions that differ from his. Ie: Nahdia and I didn’t like Skitter’s push on us. Ergo, we must be working together, eventhough Kanna expressed the same thoughts and is also voting Skitter but then there was also the ridiculous scumslip read on Lillith thinking it’s likely there’s two scum in a micro etc.
With regard to the posting style thing, I agree it was unfair for Lillith to jump on me for that because it is a different posting style than the one she prefers. However, I don’t view her hyper posting nor to a lesser extent Skitter’s as AI.
I think that Lillith claiming however that her hyper posting is “obvtown” is equally ridiculous. I tend to not put much stock into activity reads in general unless a particular poster has a clear AI activity meta.
I’m also a bit concerned about the confidence Skitter seems to have on certain slots like Drusilla’s and some others for example. @Skittter, do you have meta on Drusilla. Why are you so confident she’s town?
Also Skitter, you seemed to change your read on me when you claimed to recognize my main. While I thought that was good, because it pointed away from you confibiasing me, you never explained how this affected your read on me. Is the reason you haven’t yet responded to my question regarding that, because you don’t think you can answer it without outing me? What about thinking you recognizing my main made you flip your read on me? If you can give some reasoning on that, it would help.
MT is growing on me. I like that she’s revaluating her stances and her explanation of those stances doesn’t feel agenda-y to me. While I was initially suspicious of beeyboy’s voting Nahdia when he preferred Drusilla. I felt his explanation on that looked townie.
Dunn needs to do more. I’m still a hard null on that slot although his lower activity might be possibly town indicative for him. @Dunn, besides MWB, do you have any other reads and why has your activity seemed to have fallen off since the game started?
Oh and @Kanna, who tf is Shiki? I’m guessing Drusilla, since she is the only one who has actually shaded you?
Anyway, my not interested in voting today list now includes MT and beeyboy as well. I did like Tux’s take on Nahdia’s “defeatest” attitude and both her frustration and fight read townie to me.
@Skittter, other than Nahdia, who do you think is scum? I’m not understanding your suspicions on Star.