Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[Raven Branwen]

I’m not yet fully caught up but so far, I’m liking Kana and Clover and maybe MT as well.

@mod, the light orange font isn’t showing up on my iPad.

[Raven Branwen]

@Dunn, what makes you think Skitter’s posting is “fake”?
I don’t understand Nadhia at all.

@Votato, what is so scummy about Clover not having any confident scumreads early on D1?

[Raven Branwen]

tux is town. lilith is town? kanna is a bit townie based on first impression. but again, need a lot more content. morning is townish, but need a bit more. im less confident in morning being town than most games. could be the gamblers fallacy making me skeptical, or maybe its something else. but town for now. skitter gives me townvibes, but need to see more content. beeboy gives early townvibes? but has been strange. its page 13, so thats about all youre gonna get. that leaves a PoE of
{clover, midway, nahdia, raven, drusilla}. midway im not willing to lynch at this stage, but mostly because hes LHF and will probably be obvscum later on if scum. im happy leaving my vote on clover pending content from the other slots.

Three of your possible PoE could also be argued as LHF, two of which haven’t posted much content. Why is your focus more on posters with less content than more active posters?

This is pinging me a bit. It reads like, if I can’t push Clover, i’ll shift my focus to the lower content posters, which in general is something scum tends to do more than town.

[Raven Branwen]

The more I read from this game, the more confused I get. I’m liking Votato a bit better now but I still don’t understand why Clover is his #1 scumread.

I have 0 experience with Lillith but nothing she’s posting is particularly pinging me.

Anyone here have meta on Nadhia? I’m having the most trouble trying to parse her.

@Dunn, can you please answer my Skitter question? Thanks.

And thanks @mod for preventing me from undue eyestrain.

[Raven Branwen]

I got light town pings from beeboy because of the frustration because it seemed real to me. In the game I've played with beeboy before he was cool as a cucumber. Do you think he's likely to fake this anger because it's something 'town' him most do as scum? I suppose you could make an argument for saying beeboy wouldn't get mad at scum but the main problem I have is the pretense that he's faking this and that's just not how I took it.

maybe i should reframe. it's not so much that beeboy is faking it as i have a feeling it's not how town!beeboy would react there. the aggression can be both real and also scummy. i maintain the "I see things clearly other people arent" is out of place tho.

caught up, kinda

votato talking about townblocks all the time feels like buddiyng. not to mention admits he's apathetic as town and has the second-highest posts?
midwaybear gives all kinds of thoughts/analysis and then says they have no reads in 355.

morning tweet seems actually engaged in sorting players.
to answer her question on tux: i did say i thought his entrance was a reach i think? but looking back, it get the feeling scum would be less likely to enter on something so.. elaborate?

That’s interesting, @votato, are you usually this engaged as town? But I don’t understand, Nahdia. Why does talking about townblocks read as buddying to you? This is my problem with you in a nutshell, you make one statement I can kind of agree with, then combine it with another that leaves me scratching my head.

[Raven Branwen]

i think i'm here right now

<Morning Tweet, Tuxedo Mask, votato>
<beeboy, Dunnstral>
<Clover Ebi, midwaybear>

<skitter30, lilith2013, Raven Branwen, Nahdia, drusilla> -- POE

I forgot to address this yesterday but can you explain your reasoning for this list? Like why are Tux and votato so high and Clover so low and obviously your PoE. is it ordered and why am I in it because you don’t have a solid read on me yet or have I actually done anything you see as scummy?

[Raven Branwen]

i mean i never said my clover scumread was that strong. but its still the strongest scumread i have? i mean clover has a point, but i dont think clover's scumread on me is any better. i think everyone is kinda waiting for scum to appear and reveal themselves, which for some reason they dont seem to want to do.

Well D1 is hard because it’s only when you get flips that you can really get good reads. I would say that I think it’s extremely unlikely that you and Clover are aligned, so if either one of you flips scum, the other one is very likely to be town.

[Raven Branwen]

and is that really your only take away from what has been an eventful 7 pages?

did you ever explain what exactly I said that was "stirring up both sides" of the Dunn wagon?

shading people defending dunn as well as people attacking dunn. you were fence-sitting and playing both sides.

I need to re-ISO her, I see a few people as having done that. Maybe she just expresses it more cohesively than Nahdia?

[Raven Branwen]

@Dunn, can you please answer my Skitter question? Thanks.

I feel like I've answer multiple times, the gist is that it seemed like a fake persona. a.k.a. not how she would naturally type out her posts, and I believe that to be scummy

I don’t have a very good history of correctly reading Skitter, so I wanted to understand this better, because I’m obviously not seeing that.

[Raven Branwen]

Alright, finally caught up. Why do you think Nahdia and me look like partners? @Skitter? Because I’m genuinely trying to sort her and don’t want to possibly mislynch a slot that I’m still confused about? I don’t understand a lot of her posts but her tone is coming off as kind of genuine. I was a bit worried about Lillith but her wanting to pressure vote me reads townie.

I don’t yet have a strong read on Skitter/Dunn/Beeboy which is why I haven’t posted much about them. I was going back and forth on votato but he is still my strongest scumread and I’m okay with being mislynched providing he’s next.

VOTE: votato

Taking another look at the game, his posting strikes me as very clearly manipulative and I’m not wrong to fos players who place a suspicious amount of focus on LHF. It reads to me as if votato voted me because his preferred Clover wagon wasn’t gaining enough momentum, so I’m good with this vote.

@Skitter, I’ve been spectating a few of your games and I was hit and miss on my read of you.

[Raven Branwen]

i mean, there are a lot of slots you just havent spoken on. why the extra effort to sort me in particular?

@raven that is

Because as I’ve already explained, I don’t know how to read you or make sense of your posting, so it’s slots like yours which I tend to focus on most in general, because town all too frequently mislynches D1 by wagoning the least charismatic players, which seem to be you, me, mwb and drusillia in this game but all of them I find a lot easier to parse than you.

Scum is more often than not, generally less likely to fall into that category and is usually sofisticated enough to fool people early game.

I always get my spidey senses up when a slot is getting undue pressure, which is why I didn’t want to vote you.

[Raven Branwen]

do we have a different definition of LHF or something? what i mean is like, she's pushing the same people she says she needs more content on as scum. the reads feel "easy".

i mean she also explained why she's scumreading her, it's not like she's just going like 'meh skitter isn't here so i'll vote her' or something

i guess. my feeling was just that like, raven and i have both been fairly low impact posters thus far. so it's "easiest" to scumread us because we're not likely to hit back hard.

tux is town. lilith is town? kanna is a bit townie based on first impression. but again, need a lot more content. morning is townish, but need a bit more. im less confident in morning being town than most games. could be the gamblers fallacy making me skeptical, or maybe its something else. but town for now. skitter gives me townvibes, but need to see more content. beeboy gives early townvibes? but has been strange. its page 13, so thats about all youre gonna get.

that leaves a PoE of
{clover, midway, nahdia, raven, drusilla}

. midway im not willing to lynch at this stage, but mostly because hes LHF and will probably be obvscum later on if scum. im happy leaving my vote on clover pending content from the other slots.

This is why I’m voting votato. This post has never sat right with me and it strengthens my Clover tl as well because it was only after I posted that I thought they were unalligned that he switched his vote to me. Clover unlike votato didn’t react suspiciously to that.

[Raven Branwen]

i mean i never said my clover scumread was that strong. but its still the strongest scumread i have? i mean clover has a point, but i dont think clover's scumread on me is any better. i think everyone is kinda waiting for scum to appear and reveal themselves, which for some reason they dont seem to want to do.

Well D1 is hard because it’s only when you get flips that you can really get good reads.

I would say that I think it’s extremely unlikely that you and Clover are aligned, so if either one of you flips scum, the other one is very likely to be town.

Is this truly a coincidence, that he switches his vote to me right after this post?

[Raven Branwen]

I’m okay with being mislynched providing he’s next.

that's not how it works...

I don't really agree with the votes on votato. I feel like a lot of his posts this game have been trying to gamesolve. I feel like he was genuinely trying to sort me with posts 567, 573, and 580. His interaction with lilith also was fine.
I don't think he voted you because his clover wagon wasn't gaining momentum, but perhaps out of part troll(as lilith was pushing him to vote you) and actual scumread.

Sorry i agree with you that raven is a better wagon

Do you wanna vote raven then?

Am I missing out on why Kanna is townread cause I'd love to be clued in.

I think her takes have been somewhat similar to MT's, and most people seem to be townreading MT so I guess they also townread Kanna by association? But I don't really think I'm there on either of them yet.

I think it's hard to gauge Ravens 466 without knowing exactly where she was during the catch up. Being disconnected/having a dif viewpoint isn't scummy it's how you present it that should be what you're looking at.

Sure, that's why I'm pressuring her so I can see if the disconnect I feel is in fact AI.

But Lillith claimed to vote me as a reaction test? How do you read that as a troll? He gave literally no reason for his vote other than I’m “scummier”.

[Raven Branwen]

Is this truly a coincidence, that he switches his vote to me right after this post?

This isn't true either

How is it not true? He never even commented on that post. Why do you think that is?

[Raven Branwen]

Scum is more often than not, generally less likely to fall into that category and is usually sofisticated enough to fool people early game.

This seems to be how mafia *feels*, but realistically everyone has a chance of being mafia, right?

No, I got that directly from an RC quote actually. He was hard defending the LHF in a game whom everyone wanted to lynch and he kept pushing to lynch the player that most players were wrongly townreading and when I asked him how he was so certain that the LHF was town and that other player was scum, that is what he told me and it’s totally changed the way I make reads on D1 as a result. If you really want to get technical, everyone has a 25%/75% of rolling scum/town but in the vast majority of games I’ve played in/spectated, town mislynches LHF about 75% of time due to low charisma. Generally low charisma players have only a greater than rand chance of being scum when they’re newbs/inexperienced. So, if I was playing this in the newbie queue, I’d probably be looking at it differently.

[Raven Branwen]

Why do you think Nahdia and me look like partners? @Skitter? Because I’m genuinely trying to sort her and don’t want to possibly mislynch a slot that I’m still confused about? I don’t understand a lot of her posts but her tone is coming off as kind of genuine.

because you're making a Big Deal of equivocating over your nahdia read + now nahdia is defending you too

Yes because her tone seems genuine to me, what’s wrong with that? Is she? It reads more than she’s concerned about us both being LHFs in this game. Do you disagree that either of us would be easy pushes to make?

[Raven Branwen]

@skitter, why is doubling down in the first 2 posts scummy, but doubling down in the bottom one townie? what is your read on dunnstral/has it changed?

that's a good question

basically, his rvs vote on me seemed like bs, and he doubled down so it seemed like he was trying to fabricate a push out of nothing.
whereas later, with his lilith read, given how lilith was perceived in thread at the time, it seems like an inoppurtune push for scum to make there as it was a fairly unpopular take, so it seemed townie to me

So, are you townreading him now? What do you think of my votato read?

[Raven Branwen]

@mod per the ban thread i think votato needs to be replaced

What? why?

[Raven Branwen]

Spoiler:

Yes because her tone seems genuine to me, what’s wrong with that? Is she? It reads more than she’s concerned about us both being LHFs in this game. Do you disagree that either of us would be easy pushes to make?

- it's more the fact that you keep making a Big Deal over the fact that you don't know how to read them and that you're making a point of making this known. it feels kinda fake.
- I dont' think they're lhf
- you might be (@nahdia in a vacuum i think raven might be lhf but i don't think lilith is approaching it from that angle)

Yes, I have been talking about it a lot which Nahdia mentioned as well and my response to you is the same as what I posted to her. I don’t see why you think that’s “fake” though.

Spoiler:

So, are you townreading him now? What do you think of my votato read?

i'm not fully over his rvs push on me (i still think it's scummy) but i don't want to push him anymore

Taking another look at the game, his posting strikes me as very clearly manipulative and I’m not wrong to fos players who place a suspicious amount of focus on LHF. It reads to me as if votato voted me because his preferred Clover wagon wasn’t gaining enough momentum, so I’m good with this vote.

i dont' particularly agree with this vote, and i'm not sure i would characterize his posting as being manipulative either
and

i don't think that's why he voted you

People keep saying this but so far no one can tell me exactly WHY he did vote me and since he has been banned, we won’t ever know, which is extremely frustrating to me, since he is the only one who could confirm or debunk my reasoning. All I can do know is wait for his replacement to post content.

Spoiler:

i guess. my feeling was just that like, raven and i have both been fairly low impact posters thus far. so it's "easiest" to scumread us because we're not likely to hit back hard.

@ raven posts like these feel partner-y

Can you tell me why? You keep saying that she’s trying to “tie” herself to me and “defend” me and I agree with Kanna as I don’t see how she’s doing either one of those things with that post. Why is calling us both lhfs read as “partnery” to you at all. I don’t get it.

[Raven Branwen]

Spoiler:

i don't really see the raven/nahdia link and it feels weird how she's portraying it that way like in these posts:

a) raven is making a point of making it known that she can't commit to a read on nahdia
b) nahdia is defending raven from being pushed
c) what do you think of the fact that lilith also sees the associative?

Find me the quote where Nahdia is “defending” me. Calling us both lhfs isn’t defending.

Spoiler:

and is that really your only take away from what has been an eventful 7 pages?

did you ever explain what exactly I said that was "stirring up both sides" of the Dunn wagon?

shading people defending dunn as well as people attacking dunn. you were fence-sitting and playing both sides.

I need to re-ISO her, I see a few people as having done that. Maybe she just expresses it more cohesively than Nahdia?

? What does this mean, do you think nahdia was fencesitting?

[/quote]

I don’t and still don’t understand her reasoning for most of her reads which initially pinged me but she comes off as so sincere, it’s really hard to distinguish between confused town and scum posting. Her recent posting and in particular, her questioning of me, makes me lean to confused town. When I compare her posting with votato, it’s literally no contest. I am concerned that she is being scumread because of low charisma and I would rather vote a slot I feel more confident on.

I’m really not liking Skitter pushing us together as buddies. What are your thoughts on that? She keeps buddy reading a post that doesn’t read to me that way at all as her main reason for continuing to push this narrative and I also don’t understand why she feels I should be able to alignment lock anyone today. I’m not even alignment locked on Starbuck/votato rn and should probably unvote her pending more content.

UNVOTE:

[Raven Branwen]

But Lillith claimed to vote me as a reaction test? How do you read that as a troll? He gave literally no reason for his vote other than I’m “scummier”.

Yeah, but that's sorta a votato thing to do. He was scumreading you, so when Lillith told him to vote you, he was probably like "screw it lol I'll vote".

How is it not true? He never even commented on that post. Why do you think that is?

He voted you a long time before you said that.

Funny that you unvoted. Just going with the flow?

Re the bolded. Link=quote? He wasn’t voting me before I made that post but if I’m wrong on that, please correct me.

Why is it “funny”? That slot got replaced and a replacement is a good way to test your reads. Why do I feel that you’re unfairly trying to shade me here? Are you?

[Raven Branwen]

I think im with lilith here. Nahdia hasn't been great. But i don't get strong scum vibes yet. They just haven't done anything. Raven feels scummier. Raven could you provide an annotated realist please?

i mean i never said my clover scumread was that strong. but its still the strongest scumread i have? i mean clover has a point, but i dont think clover's scumread on me is any better. i think everyone is kinda waiting for scum to appear and reveal themselves, which for some reason they dont seem to want to do.

Well D1 is hard because it’s only when you get flips that you can really get good reads. I would say that I think it’s extremely unlikely that you and Clover are aligned, so if either one of you flips scum, the other one is very likely to be town.

Okay, I see I was wrong here but he still gave no explanation. I would seriously like to know what you think is wrong with my unvoting a slot that just got replaced pending further content? Are you saying you wouldn’t have unvoted under similar circumstances? @MidWayBear?

[Raven Branwen]

I’m not even alignment locked on Starbuck/votato rn and should probably unvote her pending more content.

I would seriously like to know what you think is wrong with my unvoting a slot that just got replaced pending further content?

Meh, it just felt like people were defending votato so you tried to inconspicuously unvote while providing that reason(more content). Like trying to subtlety back off.

Not even in the slightest. I unvoted because the slot got replaced, no other reason and eventhough I was mistaken about him voting based on that alignment comment, I still think his posting seemed very manipulative and agenday Unfortunately, I will never really find out the real reason he voted me, so I am unvoting pending what Starbuck has to say. I also think it’s kind of weird that that considering I started that wagon, you’d think I’d be so concerned about looking “conspicuous”. If I wanted to do that wouldn’t it make way more sense to sheep an already existing wagon?

[Raven Branwen]

Can you explain what you think I should have done instead when I didn't have enough information to feel like I could scumread you?

You gave about the answer I expected. I understand wanting to pressure people that are present in the thread. Though I do still find it weird you didn't acknowledge my posts after my push on Beeboy, or how others responded to those posts. Like you were apparently mindmelding on Beeboy, so did that mindmeld break when they gave reasons for unvoting me, or did you agree? Also, you say now you can continue pursuing it now that you know my view of Dunn, is this it? I kind of thought there would be more for the follow up.

In post 488, lilith2013 wrote:
Idk if it’s really as easy as raven/nahdia but that’s kind of where I’m at

Can you elaborate on this? Something about it feels very off.

You didn't address this. What did you mean here?

In post 466, Raven Branwen wrote:
The more I read from this game, the more confused I get.

What is confusing you about this game?

Ugh, My quotes keep breaking. Anyways, Raven are you still feeling confused? It seems like you're just having trouble sorting Nahdia, is there something else there now?

Yes, that’s precisely what I’ve been trying to say but I think if she were actually trying to pocket me, she wouldn’t then be asking me why I’ve been giving her slot as much focus as I have.

[Raven Branwen]

Fair point about looking conspicuous, but I still don't get the motivation behind why you unvoted. After all, it's not like votato was under serious pressure, and you still say that he seemed manipulative and agenda-y so the unvote doesn't really make sense to me.

Well after Starbuck replaced in, beeboy unvoted so I thought I should follow suit. I’m assuming his reasoning was similar.

[Raven Branwen]

I will do another catchup in a bit and shock warning: they will very likely be disjointed, disparate and unconnected, like they are every damn game I do catchups (particularly extensive ones). @Lillith

I’m pretty much allergic to wall posts and my strongly preferred stream of consciousness post by post responses kept getting me yelled at and accused of spamming and derailing the game, so this is my best attempt to compromise the way I like to do catchups and still be considered of others.

I also said I was confused primarily about Nahdia’s posting because I was but I’m liking her posting more and more and am starting to develop a strong town lean on that slot.

More to come.

[Raven Branwen]

I will do another catchup in a bit and shock warning: they will very likely be disjointed, disparate and unconnected, like they are every damn game I do catchups (particularly extensive ones). @Lillith

I’m pretty much allergic to wall posts and my strongly preferred stream of consciousness post by post responses kept getting me yelled at and accused of spamming and derailing the game, so this is my best attempt to compromise the way I like to do catchups and still be considered of others.

I also said I was confused primarily about Nahdia’s posting because I was but I’m liking her posting more and more and am starting to develop a strong town lean on that slot.

More to come.

i mean the thought did cross my mind that as scum you don't really have the need to produce this much content.

idk. i guess you do have a reason to be scumreading raven, though i disagree with pretty much the whole thing. even so it's at least a bit less convenient now.

@both raven and nahdia: I think I just really struggle to see what the underlying thoughts are behind the posts. Raven, I don’t mean to bash on your posting style, it’s something I’m also having trouble with for drusilla, and this is the main way I read people - understanding the thought process behind the posts and whether those thought processes are town indicative or scum indicative. If I can’t get to/understand the thought processes behind the posts, then I form a scumread on that person because I think either they’re trying to hide their thought processes or their thought processes don’t feel like something I could see from town. I think I’d actually prefer the “spammy” stream of consciousness posts tbh, because that would help with letting me see what your thought processes are, but I think I also have a high tolerance for reading posts if my post count is any indication...

I believe that but then you probably don’t have the experience of having people tell you that you clogging up the thread with useless repetitive posts makes it unfun to play with you, because it makes the game unplayable and difficult to read.

I actually did temporarily revert to that posting style when I made those 4 posts in a row on votato but because it wasn’t a complete catchup, my fear of spamming resulted in my misconstruing the timeline of his posting. I made my post wrongly accusing him of sr me right after I posted my I think he and Clover were unaligned post, BEFORE I read that he thought I was scummy, so I decided that unless I spammed the thread with numerous catchup posts in a row, I was going to continue making those kind of mistakes, so I’m sorry if that makes it harder for you to read me but making posts with several unrelated comments is just the way I do my catchups, so there’s absolutely nothing “disconnected” about that.

[Raven Branwen]

We will just have to agree to disagree wrt votato’s PoE post. I still consider that to be scummy but I liked Star’s catchup, so I think votato may just be one of those posters who posts scummy irrespective of alignment. It did seem to me that most who tr him were basing that off of meta, so I can see how that’s possible.

But yes, I did/and still do think that him posting that he’s pretty much voteparking Clover unless he can imo switch to one of the lower content posters is something more often than not, I’ve seen scum do, so I think that was avalid read.

As regard to your other question, are you literally not reading my posts because I already explained that when MWB asked me the exact same thing and I just did it again in my most recent post, so I don’t understand why you keep asking me a question, I’ve not only explained once but twice now?

[Raven Branwen]

@Skitter, what will you do if Nahdia flips town like I think she likely will? tunnel me because you don’t seem to be too interested in looking at any other possibilities? Why are you not considering the possibility that you could be wrong and that Nahdia and I could both be just town?

Nahdia is correct to question why either you or Lillith continue to push this narrative about us somehow being linked, when there have been no flips. I think it’s kind of premature and not terribly productive to be focusing on associatives before we’ve even had a single flip. At this point in the game, it makes way more sense to be trying to form individual scumreads, don’t you agree?

[Raven Branwen]

@Lillith, that was the main reason I initially scumread that slot. It obviously wasn’t scummy for him to have posted that if he changes his read on Clover, he will look elsewhere. What I found scummy was that his PoE (other than Clover) seemed to be comprised of mainly LHFs: me, Nahdia, Drusilla, MWB. Why was he not interested in looking for scum in the more active higher content posters? That was my concern and that’s something that historically scum tend to do more often than town and he literally never even explained his reasoning for his scumread on me, it read to me as a convenient vote after you pushed him. What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?

[Raven Branwen]

I can't find any follow-up engagement with clover where votato tries to engage and sort clover more, and he only started questioning clover again after I did.

pedit: my reads on you and nahdia started as independent reads.

nahdia chose to defend you, which links you whether you want it or not.

Please explain HOW? Kanna and Tux have also defended me. Are they “linked” to me as well?

[Raven Branwen]

Spoiler:

.... so why is raven liking being defended towny? skitter do you usually try to read for partners on d1?

overindexing on finding partners early is scum mindset imo. sure, some town can do it. but for scum, having partners and considering how you're distancing/associating with them is at the forefront. this is actually what got me caught in the large normal you're referring to!

and considering you admit to not individually reading raven despite all this content based around her, and that the way you're pivoting from SvS to TvS is nonsensical, it's a huge red flag.

gonna go back and reread/case bc i was townleaning earlier but the last time you were pushing me for whacky reasons and i softed up on you, you ended up being scum!

a) i didn't say that i thought raven was townie, don't put words in my mouth. i said that you guys look like svt, which is not at all the same thing
b) i try not to look for partners day1 but i sometimes end up doing that to my dismay ...
c) i'm kinda baffled that i'm getting this much pushback on the you/raven thing, which makes me think i'm on to something ...
d) i think that you're scum. more than that, i am very confident that you're scum. i think that there's something very wacky in how you're engaging with raven, and it makes me think there's at least one scum in the pair. the more i thought about it, i settled on tvs over svs, and i'm not sure why it's a nonsensical read or a red flag
e) and yes, i'd love to hear more about why i'm pushing you for whacky reasons, and why you think i'm scum here.

i was only in mbos for... 22 hours? idk im not going back to look. i remember it being less than 24 hours. i think my carrot is pointing the wrong way!
and yes that's the problem with meta. there is no way for me to tell you that you're wrong other than tell you that you're wrong. i can point out the differences in the scenarios but if you don't agree with them well, you'll just have to update your meta for next game!

the different is in that game, the wagon was like, immediate, and had lots of people on it, and ended with a lynch in under a day. none of that has happened this game.

.... so why is raven liking being defended towny? skitter do you usually try to read for partners on d1?

overindexing on finding partners early is scum mindset imo. sure, some town can do it. but for scum, having partners and considering how you're distancing/associating with them is at the forefront. this is actually what got me caught in the large normal you're referring to!

and considering you admit to not individually reading raven despite all this content based around her, and that the way you're pivoting from SvS to TvS is nonsensical, it's a huge red flag.

gonna go back and reread/case bc i was townleaning earlier but the last time you were pushing me for whacky reasons and i softed up on you, you ended up being scum!

a) i didn't say that i thought raven was townie, don't put words in my mouth. i said that you guys look like svt, which is not at all the same thing
b) i try not to look for partners day1 but i sometimes end up doing that to my dismay ...
c) i'm kinda baffled that i'm getting this much pushback on the you/raven thing, which makes me think i'm on to something ...
d) i think that you're scum. more than that, i am very confident that you're scum. i think that there's something very wacky in how you're engaging with raven, and it makes me think there's at least one scum in the pair. the more i thought about it, i settled on tvs over svs, and i'm not sure why it's a nonsensical read or a red flag
e) and yes, i'd love to hear more about why i'm pushing you for whacky reasons, and why you think i'm scum here.

a) ??? paraphrase is "i thought it was svs but raven liked being defended so maybe it's tvs". im not sure how else to interpret that.

the basic premise is this: i think that your mind instantly went to "partners" rather than white-knighting when you admit to not even having an independent read on raven is SUPER telling of your mindset. that's a major logical leap.

@Skitter, you’re getting “pushback”, because you are so tunnelled on Nahdia, you are ignoring any signs that point against your read on her. 754 doesn’t sound like a scum reaction to being pushed. I don’t understand how you’re not seeing that.

I’m starting to think you’re confibiasing on her slot. Nahdia’s town, get off of your ridiculous tunnel.

[Raven Branwen]

What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?

I don't townread him for that; it's more like not really thinking that was scummy. I townread him for trying to sort people and scumhunt. I honestly don't think the PoE post comes from scum either.

Scum historically focuses on LHF because they’re the easiest to mislynch. Sure, it can also come from town but less so. Ngl, if Star hadn’t have replaced in, my vote would still be 100% on votato. I’m not revoting her rn because so far I like what I’ve seen from her and when a slot gets replaced, you need to take into account your read on both players. I particularly like her calling her predecessor’s read on Clover, “lame”. I will need to see a lot more from her before I have a confident read on that slot but so far I like what I’ve seen from her.

[Raven Branwen]

Spoiler:

Can you explain what you think I should have done instead when I didn't have enough information to feel like I could scumread you?

You gave about the answer I expected. I understand wanting to pressure people that are present in the thread. Though I do still find it weird you didn't acknowledge my posts after my push on Beeboy, or how others responded to those posts. Like you were apparently mindmelding on Beeboy, so did that mindmeld break when they gave reasons for unvoting me, or did you agree? Also, you say now you can continue pursuing it now that you know my view of Dunn, is this it? I kind of thought there would be more for the follow up.

What posts do you want me to acknowledge? I was catching up on like 300 posts, I only commented on the stuff I thought was important.

My reads have diverged from beeboy's but that doesn't mean my original reasons for townreading him aren't still valid. As I said, the fact that he was having thoughts so similar to mine is a good sign his thought processes are town thought processes, and I think beeboy really got engaged with the conversations that were happening and wasn't afraid to give his opinions on the wagon that was happening at the time. iirc you disagreed with my description of what happened, but I don't really feel like it's worth arguing with that because you basically seem to have locked in your idea of what happened and I don't wanna put in the effort to argue if I don't think the argument will be successful (ie by changing your mind).

Your continual lack of read on Dunn is problematic, for much the same reasons I was scumreading nahdia. Dunn's wagon was the first big event in this game and instead of giving your opinion on Dunn, you latched onto beeboy instead. That reads as if you are uncomfortable with interacting with the main wagon. The "read" you gave me in response was basically a non-read, so it feels like you went straight for beeboy without thinking about what beeboy's motiviations would have been in defending the dunn wagon there and what that would indicate about dunn's alignment. That's a missing link that I often can't replicate when I'm scum.

I mean if you're talking about Beeboy V. Me I would have expected you to comment on how it concluded. It seems like an odd omission from your catch up.

I don't think breaking a mind-meld with someone implies you don't read them as town. However, since you were hopping on a bunch of Beeboy's posts to comment that you agree and it was the conclusion of Beeboy V. Me I did expect something like "what are you guys doing he doesn't have a Dunn read?" or "I wouldn't unvote here." You know what I'm saying, it feels like a missing link.

Okay now you’re literally using the words I used about you

I talked to beeboy already about that, and at the time you had yet to respond to me about whether you had a read on dunn so that wasn’t something I felt I could bring up as an argument because I didn’t know whether you had a read on dunn when I asked beeboy about you.

I already said that I only commented on things I thought were important. During my catch-up I was more focused on how other people were responding to your interactions with beeboy, as well as the lack of Dunn read from you that persisted, so I guess I didn’t think the ending if the interaction itself was notable.

You really seem to want to 1v1 me here, and like.. your reaction to my one question to you was way overblown. Why are you coming after me so hard? Is it because you saw that dunnstral was called town for pushing me and you want the townpoints too? Sorry, no townpoints for you.

In post 488, lilith2013 wrote:
Idk if it’s really as easy as raven/nahdia but that’s kind of where I’m at

Can you elaborate on this? Something about it feels very off.

You didn't address this. What did you mean here?

both in my poe -> both had posts that pinged me -> I think both might be scum. What's "off" about this progression?

Why is like 80% of your content in the last several days focused on me?

This is what interests me at the moment.

I didn't complain about the progression. You asked if it was really so easy as Raven/Nahida, and then said that's where you
are at. That implies you view them as the scum team. Now this pinged me because its a closed set up, and this comes off like a scum slip. Because you seem to think we're looking for two scum. Why?

.........

I’m used to playing in micros. For whatever reason, I always initially think it’s two scum. I realized after I made that post that it likely was a three-man scumteam, but I still stand behind that post. Even if they’re not

the

scumteam, I’m still POEd down to them somewhat.

Why do you think it’s likely to be a “three-man scumteam” and if your initial belief was that it was two, then how are you seeing Tux as thinking this as a scumslip?

[Raven Branwen]

Spoiler:

i changed my mind on midway, i think i'm gut-townreading them

From what post(s)?

Bleh, I don't like this post. It seemed you were building up to a scum read on me in your catch up. Where did it go? Was it just because in your catch you saw that people weren't pushing me anymore?
VOTE: Lilith

i rather dislike this progression too

You don't think their progression on me is weird? They apparently mind-meld with Beeboy over me, which implies they scum read me, but no vote or comment on those town reading me or even on Beeboy's updated view of me. Instead, I just vanish from their posts.

This feels a bit nitpicky to me. I don’t know, it’s just to me I don’t expect people to be robots and do everything by the book right away like this and I think this is kinda obvious though? Plus if you look at Lilith it didn’t seem like she was gonna vote you from the impression I got.

630 and the posting before by Raven posts her in my townreads. I think regardless of her stances the progression is obvious and it ties together her posting and makes a bit more sense on why she’s trying to sort slots like Nahdia over the larger content posters.

How do people feel about 638 by Kanna? Do you think scum her goes after Skitter of all people? It's making me scratch my head on how to read it.[/quote]

I think she’s town, her thought processes read very logical and non-agenda-y to me.

[Raven Branwen]

I feel weird that I don't have a read on Morning/Nahdia yet. Maybe I skimmed their posts? Everyone else I can say something on besides those 2. This isn't really me calling them anything more so me coming to my own shock that I don't have a read on 2 activeish slots

I really liked 754, it read to me like townie pushback to a bad read. MT, nothing actually pings me so far, so weak townlean for now.

Scum historically focuses on LHF because they’re the easiest to mislynch.

Maybe, but my theory was that they will actually focus on tougher targets sometimes to use WIFOM. That's why I initially scumread Dunnstral.

True, I have seen that as well, so I don’t understand why either Lillith or Skitter think it suspicious that neither Nahdia nor I are being wagoned. My point was that it has been scum more often than town that has tended to go after the least charismatic slots. That’s exactly what happened in the game where I referenced RC for example. Both scum and town deathtunnelled LHF!Lovebird in that game and incorrectly townread scum!Formerfish. He had a real uphill battle convincing everyone that he was right. That’s why I’m always wary when I see LHF getting wagoned, especially on D1. Not saying LHF can never be scum, just that low charisma is a very poor barometer for reading someone on D1 anyway.

[Raven Branwen]

I really liked 754, it read to me like townie pushback to a bad read. MT, nothing actually pings me so far, so weak townlean for now.

Hm, I think Skitter has brought up some valid points though. Do I agree with all of them? No, but do I think it's just a bad read that you can dismiss? Nope. Why don't you tell me what about it is bad and I'll give you my own thoughts after. I get your read on Skitter is semi scummy so maybe I can give some new insight on it.

LHF to me has never really been something I paid much attention to and more so tried to look at the posts itself of said LHF.
pedit: @

Mod

is my vote not on midway? I thought it has been for ages
VOTE: MidwayVOTE:

I definitely disliked Nahdia’s earlier posting because it looked like she was often contradicting herself but her recent posting has been good, particularly her pushback against the scumreads on her. 754 as I previously stated, reads like a townie reaction. I’m not saying that Skitter has no reason to have qualms about Nahdia but I don’t understand why she is so tunnelled on her. To have Nahdia in her PoE is one thing but I don’t know why she isn’t looking at any other slots. I do agree with you though, it would be a bad look as scum. I just don’t understand why she seems to be so confibiased on that slot. It’s somewhat concerning to me that it’s looking to me like she’s more interested in confibiasing her than sorting. I used to deathtunnel a lot and now I try to listen more to other people’s reads.

[Raven Branwen]

I am really sorry i havent been able to reread, i have needed more time than i though. I am near certain lilith is town this game so my preemptive guess is i will scrutinize whoever was pushing her earlier

For now,

VOTE: Raven

Why?


Do you usually just drop naked votes on players without any explanation?

[Raven Branwen]

Spoiler:

True, I have seen that as well, so I don’t understand why either Lillith or Skitter think it suspicious that neither Nahdia nor I are being wagoned. My point was that it has been scum more often than town that has tended to go after the least charismatic slots. That’s exactly what happened in the game where I referenced RC for example. Both scum and town deathtunnelled LHF!Lovebird in that game and incorrectly townread scum!Formerfish. He had a real uphill battle convincing everyone that he was right. That’s why I’m always wary when I see LHF getting wagoned, especially on D1. Not saying LHF can never be scum, just that low charisma is a very poor barometer for reading someone on D1 anyway

My point is that if you’re supposed to be LHF, why is no one else jumping on these wagons? I know I’m town and if you’re also town/LHF then scum should have leaped at the chance to gain momentum on your lynch by following my lead.

Not necessarily, scum doesn’t always jump on LHF but it happens more often than not but I think this take is wifom.

Spoiler:

Raven do you have any reaction to my 693 and 694? You seemed to be insisting for evidence of what skitter and I were saying and I gave you my evidence and you keep ignoring me

Raven do you have any reaction to my 693 and 694? You seemed to be insisting for evidence of what skitter and I were saying and I gave you my evidence and you keep ignoring me

I was initially very suspicious of Nahdia but I don’t agree with yours and Skitter’s take.

Spoiler:

I can't find any follow-up engagement with clover where votato tries to engage and sort clover more, and he only started questioning clover again after I did.

pedit: my reads on you and nahdia started as independent reads.

nahdia chose to defend you, which links you whether you want it or not.

Please explain HOW? Kanna and Tux have also defended me. Are they “linked” to me as well?

I don’t think Tux has defended you? seems like he is more just taking any post I make and trying to paint me as scummy with it.

Kanna just said “I think she’s town” but I don’t feel like she was particularly advocating against your lynch.

Nahdia argued with me point for point as if she really didn’t want you to be lynched.

All three of those situations are wildly different.

Yes, but you’re conveniently ignoring the fact that you and Skitter keep pushing us together. No one has done that with either me and Kanna or me and Tux.

[Raven Branwen]

What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?

Okay, what’s your read on midway then?

Ironically, one thing I did like about votato’s posting is he wanted more time to sort out MWB. I’m not sure who to vote for yet but I’m sort of getting the feeling that MT is buddying you and I’m also not tr Skitter’s deathtunnell on Nahdia, so rn, I think I’d prefer either to MWB.

[Raven Branwen]

UNVOTE:

I need to reevaluate some things. MT makes me really uncomfortable with how hard she is townreading me for reasons I can’t find. having a lot of second thoughts on votato’s lack of engagement with clover who was supposed to be his strongest scumread and then apparent passiveness in trying to sort the people he put in his poe.

What about Starbuck? How did her entrance affect that read?

[Raven Branwen]

Spoiler:

True, I have seen that as well, so I don’t understand why either Lillith or Skitter think it suspicious that neither Nahdia nor I are being wagoned. My point was that it has been scum more often than town that has tended to go after the least charismatic slots. That’s exactly what happened in the game where I referenced RC for example. Both scum and town deathtunnelled LHF!Lovebird in that game and incorrectly townread scum!Formerfish. He had a real uphill battle convincing everyone that he was right. That’s why I’m always wary when I see LHF getting wagoned, especially on D1. Not saying LHF can never be scum, just that low charisma is a very poor barometer for reading someone on D1 anyway

My point is that if you’re supposed to be LHF, why is no one else jumping on these wagons? I know I’m town and if you’re also town/LHF then scum should have leaped at the chance to gain momentum on your lynch by following my lead.

Not necessarily, scum doesn’t always jump on LHF but it happens more often than not but I think this take is wifom.

How is this wifom exactly? Scum want to mislynch people; I agree on the point that scum often go for LHF because they’re easy to mislynch. It’s really weird that out of both your wagon and the nahdia wagon, neither skitter nor I got any support there (although tbh if you flip town, I think that implicates votato and MT and I’m starting to doubt them for other reasons so I might be coming around to you actually being LHF. I’m just still trying to figure out why it felt so difficult to get people to vote you.)

Do you think I’m scum?

Spoiler:

I can't find any follow-up engagement with clover where votato tries to engage and sort clover more, and he only started questioning clover again after I did.

pedit: my reads on you and nahdia started as independent reads.

nahdia chose to defend you, which links you whether you want it or not.

Please explain HOW? Kanna and Tux have also defended me. Are they “linked” to me as well?

I don’t think Tux has defended you? seems like he is more just taking any post I make and trying to paint me as scummy with it.

Kanna just said “I think she’s town” but I don’t feel like she was particularly advocating against your lynch.

Nahdia argued with me point for point as if she really didn’t want you to be lynched.

All three of those situations are wildly different.

Yes, but you’re conveniently ignoring the fact that you and Skitter keep pushing us together. No one has done that with either me and Kanna or me and Tux.

I don’t think I was doing that before nahdia started defending you, only after? I mentioned your names together but only because I thought you were both scummy, not because I saw anything partner-indicative. It was only after the nahdia defense that I thought came off really strong that I started thinking about it that way.

I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it does look like you’re genuinely trying to solve this game. Anyway, you’re not someone I think I want to vote today.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven, have you posted reads recently that I could reread?

Are you asking if I’ve made any kind of list yet? The answer is no.

I still think Kanna, Clover are town. Lean town on Nahdia, Tux. Null on most, still haven’t made up mind on beeboy, Dunn, you. Drusilla isn’t pinging me and I think MWB could possibly be this game’s Lovebird.

So that leaves MT, Skitter and Star, so I will probably vote amongst those three. I would really like to hear more from Star.

[Raven Branwen]

I will admit I've been slowly edging Kanna to my scummy pile but if my townreads are saying she's town I'm more than likely wrong than correct. I should go read Skitter and Nahdia more closely after some tea.

My confident townreads are now looking something like Lilith/Skitter/Beeboy/Raven/Dunnstral

Hey ftr I don’t think kanna is particularly towny, and also you should have more faith in yourself.

I really don’t understand this, don’t you think her thought processes have made logical sense?

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: Skitter

Not confident on this. I might switch to MT or Star depending on their catchups.

@Skitter, do you currently have a read on me independent of your read on Nahdia?

[Raven Branwen]

I’m not saying that Skitter has no reason to have qualms about Nahdia but I don’t understand why she is so tunnelled on her. To have Nahdia in her PoE is one thing but I don’t know why she isn’t looking at any other slots.

i think you're dismissing the validity of my push my calling me confbiased and tunneled

Well, I don’t see you expressing suspicion on anyone else. Are you tr everyone but me and Nahdia? Assuming we’re both town, who else do you currently sr?

VOTE: Skitter

Not confident on this. I might switch to MT or Star depending on their catchups.

@Skitter, do you currently have a read on me independent of your read on Nahdia?

trying to decide if you're town who tends to townread people who give you townreads and scumreading people who don't, or if you're scum desperately trying to squash scumreads on you

Fair enough, I am in general far better at seeing through bad pushes on me and less good at seeing through pockets but I honestly don’t think anyone is pocketing me here.

The reason why I am so suspicious of the push on Nahdia is precisely because it’s directly tied to me and vice-versa. If you had independent reasons for sr us both, I wouldn’t be so suspicious. If Nahdia and I were not literally being pushed together by both you and Lillith and Nahdia and me were defending each other to this extent, than I’d totally get the linkng, in fact, I might even be a bit paranoid myself but I believe this is happening in large part, as a direct result of that, so no I think it makes very little sense to me.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven can I get responses to these?

What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?

Okay, what’s your read on midway then?

Ironically, one thing I did like about votato’s posting is he wanted more time to sort out MWB. I’m not sure who to vote for yet but I’m sort of getting the feeling that MT is buddying you and I’m also not tr Skitter’s deathtunnell on Nahdia, so rn, I think I’d prefer either to MWB.

It seems like midway responded to this, did you have any thoughts on that? Quote below:

What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?

I don't townread him for that; it's more like not really thinking that was scummy. I townread him for trying to sort people and scumhunt. I honestly don't think the PoE post comes from scum either.

Okay then I think I’m back to “I’m still trying to figure out why there weren’t more people jumping on your wagon if you’re town/LHF” unless it’s literally MT and/or votato

Do you have any thoughts on that?

I’m pretty sure you have already asked me a similar version of the exact same questions which I’ve already answered so I doubt very much my response to different variations of them, is going to result in a different answer, so I’m not sure exactly what the point of this is?

But okay, I’ll restate. I thought it scummy that votato’s PoE other than Clover was only amongst the LHF posters which I already explained and stand by. As you know, I’m currently re-evaluating that slot due to my liking Star’s entrance.

I think auto assuming that scum will necessarily push/jump on an LHF wagon, is kind of a wifomy read, because I’ve seen games where that’s precisely what did happen and lots of games where it did not. I’m really not sure what answer you’re hoping to get from this?

[Raven Branwen]

Raven, have you posted reads recently that I could reread?

Are you asking if I’ve made any kind of list yet? The answer is no.

I still think Kanna, Clover are town. Lean town on Nahdia, Tux. Null on most, still haven’t made up mind on beeboy, Dunn, you. Drusilla isn’t pinging me and I think MWB could possibly be this game’s Lovebird.

So that leaves MT, Skitter and Star, so I will probably vote amongst those three. I would really like to hear more from Star.

Also can you explain the Tux read? Can you also explain why you asked me about Tux accusing me of slipping and how my response to that affected your read on either me or him?

He seems to be sorting and and his reasoning behind his thought processes look to be coming from a townie mindset. I can find you specific quotes as to why I think this. He also seems similar here to a recent town game of his that I spectated.

Yes, because the way you were framing your my/Nahdia reads didn’t sound all that different than what Tux had said about it, so I found it rather curious that you accused him of possibly scumslipping with that. Also, eventhough this is a closed setup, it is still a micro, so wouldn’t logic dictate that if Tux had added a third person to his at the time-theoretical team, that would be a lot more suspicious? I just don’t see what about assuming a two person scumteam in micro - closed or otherwise - strikes you as a possible scumslip?

[Raven Branwen]

Spoiler:

Can you explain what you think I should have done instead when I didn't have enough information to feel like I could scumread you?

You gave about the answer I expected. I understand wanting to pressure people that are present in the thread. Though I do still find it weird you didn't acknowledge my posts after my push on Beeboy, or how others responded to those posts. Like you were apparently mindmelding on Beeboy, so did that mindmeld break when they gave reasons for unvoting me, or did you agree? Also, you say now you can continue pursuing it now that you know my view of Dunn, is this it? I kind of thought there would be more for the follow up.

What posts do you want me to acknowledge? I was catching up on like 300 posts, I only commented on the stuff I thought was important.

My reads have diverged from beeboy's but that doesn't mean my original reasons for townreading him aren't still valid. As I said, the fact that he was having thoughts so similar to mine is a good sign his thought processes are town thought processes, and I think beeboy really got engaged with the conversations that were happening and wasn't afraid to give his opinions on the wagon that was happening at the time. iirc you disagreed with my description of what happened, but I don't really feel like it's worth arguing with that because you basically seem to have locked in your idea of what happened and I don't wanna put in the effort to argue if I don't think the argument will be successful (ie by changing your mind).

Your continual lack of read on Dunn is problematic, for much the same reasons I was scumreading nahdia. Dunn's wagon was the first big event in this game and instead of giving your opinion on Dunn, you latched onto beeboy instead. That reads as if you are uncomfortable with interacting with the main wagon. The "read" you gave me in response was basically a non-read, so it feels like you went straight for beeboy without thinking about what beeboy's motiviations would have been in defending the dunn wagon there and what that would indicate about dunn's alignment. That's a missing link that I often can't replicate when I'm scum.

I mean if you're talking about Beeboy V. Me I would have expected you to comment on how it concluded. It seems like an odd omission from your catch up.

I don't think breaking a mind-meld with someone implies you don't read them as town. However, since you were hopping on a bunch of Beeboy's posts to comment that you agree and it was the conclusion of Beeboy V. Me I did expect something like "what are you guys doing he doesn't have a Dunn read?" or "I wouldn't unvote here." You know what I'm saying, it feels like a missing link.

Okay now you’re literally using the words I used about you

I talked to beeboy already about that, and at the time you had yet to respond to me about whether you had a read on dunn so that wasn’t something I felt I could bring up as an argument because I didn’t know whether you had a read on dunn when I asked beeboy about you.

I already said that I only commented on things I thought were important. During my catch-up I was more focused on how other people were responding to your interactions with beeboy, as well as the lack of Dunn read from you that persisted, so I guess I didn’t think the ending if the interaction itself was notable.

You really seem to want to 1v1 me here, and like.. your reaction to my one question to you was way overblown. Why are you coming after me so hard? Is it because you saw that dunnstral was called town for pushing me and you want the townpoints too? Sorry, no townpoints for you.

In post 488, lilith2013 wrote:
Idk if it’s really as easy as raven/nahdia but that’s kind of where I’m at

Can you elaborate on this? Something about it feels very off.

You didn't address this. What did you mean here?

both in my poe -> both had posts that pinged me -> I think both might be scum. What's "off" about this progression?

Why is like 80% of your content in the last several days focused on me?

This is what interests me at the moment.

I didn't complain about the progression.

You asked if it was really so easy as Raven/Nahida, and then said that's where you
are at. That implies you view them as the scum team. Now this pinged me because its a closed set up, and this comes off like a scum slip. Because you seem to think we're looking for two scum. Why?[/quote]
.........

I’m used to playing in micros. For whatever reason, I always initially think it’s two scum. I realized after I made that post that it likely was a three-man scumteam, but I still stand behind that post. Even if they’re not

the

scumteam, I’m still POEd down to them somewhat.[/quote]

Okay, I totally misread this, sorry. @Tux, why did you think Lillith thinking there were two scum in a micro, a “scum slip”?

[Raven Branwen]

He accused me of slipping, not the other way around

Yeah, it’s definitely a silly accusation and generally overused as well. I was in a game with either a semi-open or closed setup and I correctly figured out the setup by putting together literal clues the mod had posted on the first page. I literally had to spend over half that game fighting off tmi scumreads for guessing correctly.

[Raven Branwen]

Well, I don’t see you expressing suspicion on anyone else. Are you tr everyone but me and Nahdia? Assuming we’re both town, who else do you currently sr?

people i townread: lilith, drusilla, mt, beeboy
people that are maaaaaybe townie: clover
people that are maaaaaaybe scummy: dunn, kanna, midway
people aren't townie: you, nahdia

people that i'm unsure on: starbuck, tux

Why am I not townie and again, I want just a read on me alone. Let’s imagine Nahdia isn’t in this game, how do you read me?

[Raven Branwen]

I am going to be honest here, this game is a solid balance between being very content dense and me not actually being able to get any solid reads. I am not sure if that says more about the game or me as a player.

I feel this in my bones. Sorry, guys, I think I'm having trouble transitioning from Micro to this. Trying my best to keep up. Anyways...

UNVOTE: Lilith

Sorry, it took so long, but I've just been trying to get to the bottom of some strange anomalies I saw in an overall townie ISO. Most especially was what I view as a scum slip. I think Lilith's answers to my questions were very good, especially since I had to spell out it was a scum slip for her to notice. I think if it was an actual scum slip, scum would have noticed what I mean the first time I highlighted that quote. Also the general frustration I'm picking up from their posts seems townie.

@Kanna, Nahdia, and Raven, why are you voting Skitter? It seems odd that Skitter points out that she thinks Nahdia and Raven might be scum together, and they both end up voting her together.

@Morning where are you at? You're a strong town read from earlier in the game but you've fallen off with being busy. Can I get a quick update on what's going on?

@Lilith how's your revaluation going? I don't feel Morning Tweet is scum. Also, I don't think we've had a wagon get over 3 votes all-day 1 which we should fix. I'd like to quardinate on my top two town reads for this. Skitter can be there too I think, I like Skitter.

Why is that odd? I agree with both Kanna’s and Nahdia’s analysis about that. I think that Skitter is confibiasing both Nahdia’s and my slots and I’m finding it incredibly frustrating that she won’t explain her read on me, other than to once again lump me in with Nahdia and saying I’m “not townie” still with no explanation why that is. That’s in a nutshell the difference I see between Skitter and Lillith. Lillith has actually commented on/questioned and attempted to sort me APART from Nahdia. What I’m still trying to figure out is if Skitter is baddly tunnelled town or scum and her continued lack of any independent analysis/read on my slot isn’t exactly giving me town pings.

[Raven Branwen]

ugh so many people going "woe is me"
I guess I am guilty of this too though. Tuxedo's questions feel a little forced. I think if he really wanted to know why kanna, raven, and nahdia were voting skitter he could have looked at their isos. I don't really see the point in asking morning that either.

Yeah, I don’t understand why he’s asking us that when the answers are right in our ISOs like you said but I don’t think his question to MT is bad. I didn’t care too much for that catchup or whatever that was. She claimed she wanted to vote for whomever was pushing Lillith and drops a naked vote on someone who has never pushed Lillith and she has yet to give any reasons either as to why she voted me or obvtown reads Lillith.

[Raven Branwen]

Why am I not townie and again, I want just a read on me alone. Let’s imagine Nahdia isn’t in this game, how do you read me?

i realized i know your main so lowkey townie unfortunately

Why “unfortunately”? I honestly don’t think Nahdia’s scum here and your read on her is misplaced.

[Raven Branwen]

I’m tired but I will give a few thoughts. First off, I’m really liking Star’s catchup. She seems to be mindmelding with a lot of my takes, so it looks as if votato may be one of those players who just has a scummy playstyle.

@MT, please explain to me why you like Kanna’s analysis on the me/Nadia push but are of the opinion that somehow how me or Nadhia ought to be seeing Skitter’s reasoning if Kanna isn’t? Why the higher bar for me and Nahdia?

Also, when did I ever accuse Skitter of making up anything. Please find/link me that quote. In fact, out of Kanna and Nahdia, I was the most unsure of my read on Skitter and couldn’t honestly tell why she was so fixated on her tunnel. I’m starting to think she might actually believe her Nahdia push, which I still disagree with.

Does anyone else think that the Nahdia wagon is gaining traction relatively fast or is it just me? @Beeboy, if Drusilla is your strongest scumread why are you voting Nahdia?

@Tux, do you have independent reasons for thinking Nahdia is scummy?

@MT, while your catchup is okay, I find your read on me kind of hedgey. Are you having extreme difficulty sorting me or what?

@Beeboy, why am I in your PoE? The other day you said something along the lines of that I’m claiming something that doesn’t exist: LHFs. Why? What game have you been in/ spectated where they didn’t exist?

@Dunn. what is your current read on the gamestate and what is your opinion on the fast growing Nahdia wagon?

Anyway, I don’t want to vote Kanna, Clover, Star, Nahdia and MWB today.

[Raven Branwen]

That's a bad look for when my mlg reads end up being correct and she flips scum!!!

So why aren’t you voting her rather than Nahdia?

[Raven Branwen]

That's a bad look for when my mlg reads end up being correct and she flips scum!!!

So why aren’t you voting her rather than Nahdia?

I’m not currently sr Drusilla just to be clear, I just don’t understand why bee is insisting she’s scum while voting Nahdia.

[Raven Branwen]

@Beeboy, why am I in your PoE? The other day you said something along the lines of that I’m claiming something that doesn’t exist: LHFs. Why? What game have you been in/ spectated where they didn’t exist?

I scum read Nahdia, Votato/Starbuck, Drusilla to varying degrees.
I town read the 5 listed, the rest is people I am trying to sort. I can't just call everyone who puts effort into this game town I don't think I am going to solve the game doing that >_____>

I said this game doesn't have LHFs, at least compared to a typical player list, I think everyone in this game is capable of defending themselves. The 2 new players Tux and Midway are probably among the better 2020 users on the site. Tux can defend his stances even if you think those stances are easily attack-able and Midway pulled some crazy WIM in the last game I played with him. I stand by this statement I think this is a relatively strong player list.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that then. I don’t think there has ever been/will be a mafia game in existence - unless it were to ever turn pro - where LHFs weren’t in the playerlist.

I did sr - hard - votato but what didn’t you like about Star’s catchup?

[Raven Branwen]

I wasn’t feeling well yesterday. @Star: re: Skittter, I think Kanna explained things fairly well. Re: Tux, I don’t know if it’s newbishness or whatever but it’s kind of annoying that he keeps shading opinions that differ from his. Ie: Nahdia and I didn’t like Skitter’s push on us. Ergo, we must be working together, eventhough Kanna expressed the same thoughts and is also voting Skitter but then there was also the ridiculous scumslip read on Lillith thinking it’s likely there’s two scum in a micro etc.

With regard to the posting style thing, I agree it was unfair for Lillith to jump on me for that because it is a different posting style than the one she prefers. However, I don’t view her hyper posting nor to a lesser extent Skitter’s as AI.

I think that Lillith claiming however that her hyper posting is “obvtown” is equally ridiculous. I tend to not put much stock into activity reads in general unless a particular poster has a clear AI activity meta.

I’m also a bit concerned about the confidence Skitter seems to have on certain slots like Drusilla’s and some others for example. @Skittter, do you have meta on Drusilla. Why are you so confident she’s town?

Also Skitter, you seemed to change your read on me when you claimed to recognize my main. While I thought that was good, because it pointed away from you confibiasing me, you never explained how this affected your read on me. Is the reason you haven’t yet responded to my question regarding that, because you don’t think you can answer it without outing me? What about thinking you recognizing my main made you flip your read on me? If you can give some reasoning on that, it would help.

MT is growing on me. I like that she’s revaluating her stances and her explanation of those stances doesn’t feel agenda-y to me. While I was initially suspicious of beeyboy’s voting Nahdia when he preferred Drusilla. I felt his explanation on that looked townie.

Dunn needs to do more. I’m still a hard null on that slot although his lower activity might be possibly town indicative for him. @Dunn, besides MWB, do you have any other reads and why has your activity seemed to have fallen off since the game started?

Oh and @Kanna, who tf is Shiki? I’m guessing Drusilla, since she is the only one who has actually shaded you?

Anyway, my not interested in voting today list now includes MT and beeyboy as well. I did like Tux’s take on Nahdia’s “defeatest” attitude and both her frustration and fight read townie to me.

@Skittter, other than Nahdia, who do you think is scum? I’m not understanding your suspicions on Star.

[Raven Branwen]

realtalk i want people to weigh in on this. skitter's agenda is v evident in what i just laid out. i dont want to find another wagon, i want this. i will kick and scream if i must.

@Skitter, you seem to want your cake and eat it too here. If you honestly think this is my town meta, then you shouldn’t keep pushing this illogical narrative.

And why is Star a viable alternative wagon for you? I don’t find her scummy. Also why you were correct in your opinion on her Lillith post style thing, why didn’t you say anything when Lillith was doing the same thing to me?

Also, what is your reasoning on Dunn? Other than I’m assuming his decline in activity level, what basis do you sr him?

[Raven Branwen]

I feel like Raven should feel more paranoid about you defending her so strongly and instead kind of took your motives for granted

Why? I don’t see that at all. I’m also becoming more and more confident that Nahdia is town. She just went from looking to a counterwagon to Skittter to hard doubling down on Skitter. How much more anti-survivalist can you possibly get?

I think this is a really bad take, bad as in not making sense to me at all. Why should I be remotely paranoid of a slot hard defending me that I am feeling more and more confident is town? In what world does that make an iota of sense to you?

What do you think about Star’s thinking you and Skitter are tagteaming because I’m seriously starting to wonder about that as well?

[Raven Branwen]

I feel like Raven should feel more paranoid about you defending her so strongly and instead kind of took your motives for granted

idk how many ways i can say that i wasnt so much defending raven as i was questioning the legitimacy of your reads.

Sure the intent you had was to question my reads but the result of it was that you were effectively defending raven, no? Like chainsaw kind of defense

How? Skitter is saying she’s tr me off of meta and still not not walking back her one scum in Nadhia/me theory in the event of a Nahdia townflip. She’s on the one hand is claiming that she would recesses if Nahdia flipped town but she has given no INDEPENDENT reason for thinking I could be scum other than that.

If Skitter is pushing Nahdia in good faith and tr me off of meta, then don’t you think the logical thing would be to stop pushing that narrative in the event of a Nahdia townflip?

[Raven Branwen]

lilith i would switch to starbuck if we're approaching deadline and we need my vote but i would much rather nahdia

I think it’s very interesting that you’re sr both Nahdia and Star who aren’t tr you but not Drusilla? And what happened to Dunn aa a counter? You seemed to have dropped that entirely.

What is the difference between Nahdia/Star and Drusilla? Answer: Drusilla isn’t pushing me. That said, I strongly disagree with her Kanna read.

[Raven Branwen]

Oh skitter read my mind - starbuck trying to shade me for having too MANY posts is also really bad. It is actually part of my meta that as scum I struggle to create content but also the nature of the content itself is very superficial. Even if you don’t know that, I’m not calling myself obvtown for the amount of posts I have but rather that I would not be able to fake the gamesolving that I’ve done in my posts. (this is also @kanna)

Ftr I was told that people hate walls, so I switched to multiple smaller posts because I thought that would be easier to read. Apparently it’s not???

You’re kidding me right? You did the exact damn thing to me yet it’s somehow only scummy that Star is doing that? Are you even reading your posts? *smdh*

[Raven Branwen]

@raven I disagree that it’s the same thing, but regardless, I feel like I then spent quite a bit of time engaging you to try to determine if the disconnect I felt was AI whereas starbuck hasn’t done that all, she’s just throwing shade at me and seeing if it will stick

I think that your take on my posting style is similar to Star’s on you. It’s NAI in both cases, especially my making several seemingly unconnected statements. We happen to have different posting styles and mine used to be very similar to yours. Star would probably take issue with it if I were posting that way, so Star and you are both wrong to view either of our posting styles as AI.

Again, yes you have engaged with me but I really don’t see how Star’s take on you is vastly dissimilar to yours on me. I think she’s making the same buddy parallel between you and Skitter that you have made with Nahdia/me, so how are they different? Iow, if you think it makes no sense for her to think you and Skitter might be buddies than how do you not see why you thinking me and Nahdia could be linked at being all that different?
I guess, both Star’s take on you/Skitter doesn’t really seem terribly all that different to me than your take on me/Nahdia.

Other then you extensively engaging me which is true, how are the two basically different? I’m really not following.

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: Starbuck Woohoo!

Okay I feel like I need to play mediator a little because this conversation has gone for pages and I feel like at this point it can let some people just sit back and watch as Lilith/Skitter/Raven/Nahdia post walls at each other.

@Raven/Nahdia do you see how the way you guys are playing around each other could be considered buddying to some extent?
@Skitter How do you feel about joining us on a Starbuck wagon. Also, could you see in a world where Raven/Nahdia are TvT that your logic doesn't make sense in there eyes or do you think all your points have been on point/they should have no problem with it?
@Lilith Good vote

I know at least for me when I see people coming to my defense against a case that I don't think is logical it can lead me to townreading/buddying the other player in question and that may be the case here regardless of AI for Nahdia/Raven. I think the best way to go at this is not base it on team and go for the slots one at a time and figure it out in that matter. Yes, I get Skitter has things that make them look worse together, but that shouldn't be the main point of a read.

I probably missed some points from all parties because I am guilty of skimming a bit but I want to try and settle this with an outside party such as myself or someone else since most of you have me as town it could be easier to bounce your thoughts off of me?

Why Star?

I rarely have confident scumreads in early game, so it was really more about relating to that than anything else. It’s something I’ve frequently wrongly gotten fos’d for. If someone has a lot of sr this early. I get more worried and these weren’t overly confident reads, so I didn’t understand why anyone thought that was scummy.

[Raven Branwen]

How? Skitter is saying she’s tr me off of meta and still not not walking back her one scum in Nadhia/me theory in the event of a Nahdia townflip. She’s on the one hand is claiming that she would recesses if Nahdia flipped town but she has given no INDEPENDENT reason for thinking I could be scum other than that.

again, i don't think that i said that indepenantly i thought you were scum. in fact, i think i said that if i had to give a read on you indpendantly it would be low-key townie. i'm like 98% certain i know your main, and it's largely a meta read

despite that, there's a weird af associative between you two, and it strengthened after i initially called it out because you two keep defending each other and pushing back on people who push either of you. i no longer think that you're *both* scum because tying yourself to each other is p risky, but i think that you've been pocketed by nahdia and that you like being defended by her so you townread her back and defend her in turn. and nahdia is thus incentivized to keep defending you because by lumping themselves with you they have a defender and can say that other people reading them wrong since they're doing the same things that other townies are doing, right?

i feel like i've said all of this like 19000 times now and i don't know how to explain it better at this point

How is the way she’s defending me more likely to come from scum than town? Yes, she is clearly defending me but I don’t see how you’re necessarily viewing that as a pocket. I guess, I’m asking what specifically about the way she’s defending me screams pocket, because I’m not seeing it?

[Raven Branwen]

Ftr I was told that people hate walls, so I switched to multiple smaller posts because I thought that would be easier to read. Apparently it’s not???

it depends what era you're from.
current people hate walls, older players hate spamposting, it's an eternal struggle between the two camps

Interesting, I did not know this. What I do know is that geriatric games are my mafia definition of hell, so you are extremely unlikely to ever see me sign up for one.

[Raven Branwen]

I've said that I'm working to separate the flooding from reading either of you as scum because I've seen it used as a tactic before. I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt but when I express concern and you both are doing everything you can to invalidate that concern that doesn't look very good to me. It seems hypocritical to constructive criticism. I'm not saying to not say what you want to say, but right now the current Activity Overview (located in the bottom right) has you with 191 posts, skitter with 129, followed by Nahdia with 93. You have more than double the posts that Nahdia has on her own.

i mean it's not like i tried to make a good-faith effort to change posting styles, which was ignored, or expressed my concern over your tuxedo vote/push, which was largely ignored, or anything

My opinion is that the posting styles of both you and Lillith are NAI. That said, I never really thought you in particular were flooding the thread/hyper posting.

[Raven Branwen]

I think it’s very interesting that you’re sr both Nahdia and Star who aren’t tr you but not Drusilla? And what happened to Dunn aa a counter? You seemed to have dropped that entirely.

What is the difference between Nahdia/Star and Drusilla? Answer: Drusilla isn’t pushing me. That said, I strongly disagree with her Kanna read.

wut
it's not like i townread people because they're townreading me

dru not pushing you doesn't make sense as a reason to townread her? i don't even know what you're saying here

I not saying it is but that is one thing that differentiates her from Nahdia and Star, correct? She has not really given any kind of read on my slot yet.

Speaking of, @Drusilla, what is your read on me?

[Raven Branwen]

I feel like Raven should feel more paranoid about you defending her so strongly and instead kind of took your motives for granted

Why? I don’t see that at all. I

’m also becoming more and more confident that Nahdia is town. She just went from looking to a counterwagon to Skittter to hard doubling down on Skitter. How much more anti-survivalist can you possibly get?

I think this is a really bad take, bad as in not making sense to me at all. Why should I be remotely paranoid of a slot hard defending me that I am feeling more and more confident is town? In what world does that make an iota of sense to you?

What do you think about Star’s thinking you and Skitter are tagteaming because I’m seriously starting to wonder about that as well?

like does this not look like a werid reaction to anybody else ... ?

Somehow I missed this. I think you’re missing my point. While seeking a counterwagon to yourself is NAI. it read to me as if her doubling down on you was anti-survivalistic, because it’s probably a lot easier to get the counterwagon lynched. Do you not see that, so how is this “weird”?

[Raven Branwen]

I feel like Raven should feel more paranoid about you defending her so strongly and instead kind of took your motives for granted

Why? I don’t see that at all. I’m also becoming more and more confident that Nahdia is town. She just went from looking to a counterwagon to Skittter to hard doubling down on Skitter. How much more anti-survivalist can you possibly get?

I think this is a really bad take, bad as in not making sense to me at all. Why should I be remotely paranoid of a slot hard defending me that I am feeling more and more confident is town? In what world does that make an iota of sense to you?

What do you think about Star’s thinking you and Skitter are tagteaming because I’m seriously starting to wonder about that as well?

At the time you had no read on nahdia and were verbalizing how much difficulty you had reading them. If someone were to come in defending me the way nahdia did, I’d feel pretty paranoid that they had ulterior motives for doing so. And look, you’re now townreading nahdia so if it was scum!nahdia then the move worked to start pocketing you and if it was town!nahdia then I’m right and your not being paranoid is suspicious.

Re: Starbuck, I think Starbuck is kinda scummy and votato was pretty scummy. Starbuck has been shading me basically since I announced that I was no longer townreading her slot, so I don’t really put a lot of stock in how she is painting me and skitter. As for my actual opinion on me and skitter, she definitely knows my scumgame the best out of the people in this game and she’s probably second-most familiar with my scumgame out of people on this site. I don’t see any issue with her townreading me so hard when my scumgame is vastly vastly different from my towngame and she would recognize that. I think it’s natural to look to a person that you strongly townread for guidance/for help/whatever in a game where you need to identify other town and work together with them, and people trying to shade us for that when it’s a major winning point for town is really off. Like I think skitter has a really strong towngame and I think I have a decent towngame as well, and scum are probably afraid that we’ve townlocked each other because that means it’s a very very uphill battle for them. I think it could be suspicious if skitter was trying to create a townbloc and put herself in it but she hasn’t done anything of the sort.

tldr, I now want to vote Starbuck

Please explain to me why my logically valid reasoning that you are apparently being so obtuse about would be “suspicious” if she’s town? For you to accuse Star of shading is rich when you are doing that to me here. I have clearly presented my reasoning for tr Nahdia. Yes I didn’t initially and yes, I was confused on her but ever since she’s been wagoned, her reaction to that has been consistently townie and for someone who’s literally a accusing another slot of shading, well all I have to say about that is. “glass houses”.

[Raven Branwen]

isn't skitter the counterwagon though?

She was trying to find another one before doubling down on Skitter. My point was that she had much better chances of avoiding the lynch if she pushed for a different wagon than Skitter, so I read her doubling down on Skitter as town indicative, because it increases her chances of being lynched.

Bolded for Lillith who apparently isn’t reading my posts.

[Raven Branwen]

Picking weird arguments, and bad tone. Her tone was pretty defensive to me last time similar to this game, and I feel like the arguments she's been making are also similarly bad to last game. I sense emotion and it is probably townie emotion based on the meta.

Link?

[Raven Branwen]

Picking weird arguments, and bad tone. Her tone was pretty defensive to me last time similar to this game, and I feel like the arguments she's been making are also similarly bad to last game. I sense emotion and it is probably townie emotion based on the meta.

Link?

Subject: Mini Theme 2145: The Weakest Link Game over

And what the gif is illustrating is that I think you're flailing. Again, an attack on your game play and not on you as a person. Like I said in the Quiz PT, I'm not attacking you by saying that your guilty pleasure is MMMBop on repeat. I'm solely pointing out issues in what you are saying about the game and how you are acting in the game.

I'm not attacking you like ABR went after me. You're scummy and you're continuing to be scummy and you aren't changing my mind by continuing to act so infantile.

Don’t know if this is it but both Star and spring were town in that.

[Raven Branwen]

Sorry to spam but @beeboy, you were in TWL, so I don’t understand how you think Star is playing differently here. Dunn was too and I’d like to hear his read on Star.

[Raven Branwen]

I feel like Raven should feel more paranoid about you defending her so strongly and instead kind of took your motives for granted

Why? I don’t see that at all. I’m also becoming more and more confident that Nahdia is town. She just went from looking to a counterwagon to Skittter to hard doubling down on Skitter. How much more anti-survivalist can you possibly get?

I think this is a really bad take, bad as in not making sense to me at all. Why should I be remotely paranoid of a slot hard defending me that I am feeling more and more confident is town? In what world does that make an iota of sense to you?

What do you think about Star’s thinking you and Skitter are tagteaming because I’m seriously starting to wonder about that as well?

At the time you had no read on nahdia and were verbalizing how much difficulty you had reading them. If someone were to come in defending me the way nahdia did, I’d feel pretty paranoid that they had ulterior motives for doing so. And look, you’re now townreading nahdia so if it was scum!nahdia then the move worked to start pocketing you and if it was town!nahdia then I’m right and your not being paranoid is suspicious.

I can follow this case pretty well, but also there's something about Raven's play -- she always seems to comment on people who are reading her negatively, like she did with my catchup (which was more of a null read, and she still commented on it). I'm getting the feeling she quite likes being townread and is inherently less suspicious of being townread as opposed to being read negatively.

I could see that as being scummy, yeah. but i love getting townread too. Love it ! But i do find it suspicious sometimes when my null/scumreads start strong townreading me, sure. I think your case is coming from a genuine mindset and has some merit, although I wonder if Raven simply doesn't get paranoid of buddying much or just didn't get paranoid in this particular instance

It is a legitimate criticism that I am generally a lot more about bad pushes on me than being defended or tr. In one game I was in, the scumteam was practically crying when I replaced out. And if in a game I played with Skitter, town won but no thanks to me for hard defending the entire scumteam. However, that was quite awhile ago and I’m getting a lot better at seeing through pockets.

The reason I’m not more paranoid about Nahdia is the context of the situation. Nadhia and I keep getting pushed together and that is key. If we were being pushed separately and she was hard defending me as she has been here, yeah, I probably would get a little paranoid but I feel that the two of us getting constantly pushed together make it nothing short of inevitable that we would both be hard defending each other and I can’t understand how Lillith can’t see that at all. Why would it make more logical sense for me to be paranoid of slots defending me, especially when it makes perfect sense to do so, then slots pushing me together with other players?

How familiar are you with Lillith’s meta? Is it typical for her to death tunnel to this extent and ignore literally anything pointing away from that? So when Star keeps saying that it’s pinging her, I stop thinking I’m crazy to think this.

[Raven Branwen]

I think it was starbuck who mentioned this, but it’s a good point that a skitter/nahdia flip is good to resolve

I'm fine with one or the other. Given skitter's severe overreaction, I'd much rather that elimination.



Midway, we aren't getting Dunn today. Please pick one of Nahdia or skitter. Either or. We need to figure out this 1v1.

Y'all want to compromise on midway? Because I'm down for he or Dunn over all the rest of this.

@Star, these posts were one minute apart. Do you no longer think Skitter and Lillith are tagteaming? I can understand why you might consider wanting to settle on MWB or Dunn but why would you prefer it? How can you change your mind this quickly? And if you think the Skitter/Nahdia thing ought to be resolved, then how does either an MWB or Dunn wagon help to resolve this?

Ftr, I am not a fan of compromise wagons, they far more often than not result in a mislynch.

[Raven Branwen]

¶

Votecount 1.21

[3] Nahdia:

skitter, beeboy, lilith2013

[3] skitter30:

Kanna, Nahdia, Raven Branwen

[2] Starbuck:

Clover Ebi, Tuxedo Mask

[1] midwaybear:

Dunnstral

[1] Dunnstral:

midwaybear

[3] Not Voting:

drusilla, Starbuck, Morning Tweet

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to throw someone down the well.
The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-07-10 09:18:09).
V/LA section. Joint mod iso.

I wish this wasn’t so close to deadline, especially since some players are just coasting.

[Raven Branwen]

I suppose the wishing well didn't like our gift then... right, I have a new plan. Follow me everyone. The mayor leads the remaining villagers up a dirt path away from the burning wreckage.

Werewolves are town? So Star was actually town? This game is aptly named.

[Raven Branwen]

i too am a werewolf and i am fairly certain lunacy is a town of werewolves.

was anyone in a pt with starbuck and/or lilith?

I hardclaim werewolf and no.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven!!!!

Ngl, When I got my role pm, I actually though I rolled scum. I am so super glad to be town. \o/

[Raven Branwen]

Are you a power role like bodyguard or watcher like Starbuck/Lilith?
I am a werewolf lone wolf.

VT werewolf lmao.

[Raven Branwen]

Well now me and drusilla are confirmed, but everyone could be faking it.

How are you guys confirmed? Am I missing something?

[Raven Branwen]

So you knew she was scum?

Lillith flipped werewolf. @Tux, why did you think she scumslipped?

Raven
Dru
MWB
beeboy
Skitter
Nahdia

These are all of the werewolf claims, correct? Am I missing anybody?

So, this would mean that there were three ww wagons.

[Raven Branwen]

@Nahdia I am sorry for parking my vote on you.
I was too scared to move my vote so many big posts was making me scared

i suppose i can forgive you. i guess p much all of d1 is an opportunistic mess.
and yet i still couldnt execute skitter v_v

All wagons were ww, so scum was obviously flying underneath the radar.

[Raven Branwen]

Ya pretty much.

3 scum.
10 town.

Doesn't make sense he got left out.

What makes you think 3 scum? I remember Lillith thought that as well?

[Raven Branwen]

The flavor insinuates the Mayor is scum more then once.
It's either lone wolf midway or Hectic himself.

Can someone with a kill shoot Hectic for me?

How can the mod be scum?

[Raven Branwen]

Every year, the Silent Star emerges anew. Do not be deceived by its beauty... it only spells calamity for all unfortunate enough to gaze upon it.

Welcome to the town of Lunacy! I'm Mayor Top Hat, but you already knew that because you live here!

It's a switch. On the back is engraved Melt with Lava. What could this possibly mean?
Your thoughts are interrupted as a flaming demon emerges from the flames, heading straight towards the crowd of onlookers!
But you quickly realise it's just your Mayor, wearing a fireproof suit.

Good job, everyone. You make me very proud to call myself your Mayor. With luck, the gift of Starbuck will stop the deaths that plague this town.

The Mayor bursts into laughter and sends you all home to get some rest.

I think scum is just Hectic tbh.
Every time a kill occurs he is always this weird demon figure.

If you’re actually serious here than how tf are we even supposed to play this game?

What I think is hilarious is Lillith called Skitter locktown who wrongly believed she was scum.

[Raven Branwen]

Midway if you were a lone wolf who did you think knew about you / who are you told are your wolf buddies?
Lone wolf is a legit role.

MWB, you aren’t an SK are you? That would bring this game to even newer heights of crazy than I previously thought possible.

[Raven Branwen]

I am too a paired werewolf and i can prove it

Here's the post i was planning on entering today with:

~~~~~~~~~

I think the last like 10 or so pages were extremely helpful in affirming some of my reads. My main takeaways are: Lilith is town. Tux is town from the 1v1. Kanna/skitts more or less sealed Star’s fate on pages 51/52, Kanna specifically i think could have justified pivoting to the midway wagon with the large support base it had in Clover/Dunn/Beeboy/Star/Nahdia + she hadn’t really expressed as much of a viewpoint towards non skitts/Nahdia slots. Midway is town for not just the counterwagon but also how i’ve been reading him. Clover I still lean town on + he similarly could have just simply stuck to his guns on midway.

Leaving last scum in {Beeboy, Drusilla, Raven} with Nahdia/Dunnstal as my light town leans for different reasons

here are my notes from rereading it through:

Spoiler: reads

Town //
Kanna
lilith2013
Tuxedo Mask
Midwaybear

High Town //
Clover Ebi
Skitter3

Town Inclined //
Nahdia
Dunnstral

Unsure (less preferred) //
Beeboy

Unsure //
drusilla

Scummish //
Raven Branwen

Spoiler: explanations

Kanna - Her comments towards Starbuck in 1248 and 1267 followed by her vote in 1274 came at a crucial point where the midway and Starbuck wagons were a tossup.

Kanna’s ISO is pro Nahdia, con Skitts primarily, but towards the later end of the day when compromise wagons were suggested, was for Starbuck being lynched and had no opinion on midway. From what i can tell, Kanna could have shaded midway instead of Starbuck, or at the very least not suspected Starbuck (given her previous stances) if she wanted, but she didn’t.

Reading the end of the day now I can see why the Starbuck wagon clinched -- she more or less started attacking everyone in sight without much regard for accuracy. I’d expect a scum!Kanna to either vote midway or hedge between the two wagons, pointing out scummy things in both candidates. Instead she (along with skitts) sealed the deal on midway when i think it would have been easily justifiable to send it the other way.

~

Lilith - She is responsible for putting the Starbuck wagon on the table in the first place (1036/1039).

The pushback to Lilith/Skitts from Starbuck (and to a lesser extent Raven) makes me feel this slot is town. Obviously there was no need to begin the Starbuck wagon even though lilith had a history of scumleaning the slot -- She could have saved investigating Starbuck for another day like others had been proposing. Instead Lilith does not give her the chance. My townread from earlier still stands, with one of the main voices against Lilith’s self meta argument flipping scum.

~

Tuxedo - He joined the Starbuck wagon in 1114, even though Lilith unvoted and suggested we move off our vanity votes. He lobbies for lilith to come back. This vote came at a time where Nahdia/skitts were still acceptable wagons.

Tuxedo had all the excuse in the world at this point to not vote for Star -- The main pusher of the Star wagon had unvoted, people were mentioning how it feels off to exile a replacement, and what not. Didn’t stop him though. There is also the deal with the Star v. Tux 1v1 which heavily suggests he’s town as well. I believe that Star was genuinely trying to get suspicion drawn towards Tux, thinking it’d stick because of his odd early game.

~

Midway - He townread Starbuck and vehemently wanted Dunn killed. However, he was also the counterwagon to Starbuck, with {Dunnstral, Starbuck, beeboy, Clover Ebi, Nahdia} voting for him.

I feel like I’ve been over why midway isn’t scum and I suppose it you could discredit me by saying all I’m saying is “Too scummy to be scum”. However, him being the bad counterwagon to Starbuck and his reaction to the hammer still make me feel he’s town. I think voting for midway was defensible, and scum could have gotten away with it since there weren’t really too many players defending him, but in this case he’s town and scum got caught with their pants down (^∀^)

~

Clover - He joined lilith second, voting Starbuck in 1052. He wanted midway primarily but has a secondary scumread on votato.

Clover indicates that he wants Starbuck dead pretty strongly in 1052 (he’s excited about it). Had he gotten his way with the midway lynch, he would have had to scumread Starbuck for the rest of the game more or less given how strong he indicated the scumread is-- this is hard to explain. I think that scum!Clover would have indicated a weaker scumread on Starbuck and possibly stuck to his guns with the midway wagon -- it would have been pretty excusable as long as he didn’t strongly indicate he wanted Starbuck dead -- but he does here.

~

Skitts - She vastly preferred Nahdia but joined lilith/Clover as the third vote in 1142. She commented negatively towards Starbuck at a crucial point between the midway/Starbuck wagons along with Kanna.

I think again the pushback towards Lilith/Skitts suggests that Starbuck (and scum) were worried about them becoming obvtown and wanted to cast shade on the two of em. Skitts still wanted Nahdia wagoned instead obviously, but she indicated that the Starbuck wagon was much preferred over midway. I think that given Skitts’ previous interaction with Starbuck (like calling her “remarkably uncharitable” in 1066), skitts could not have joined the midway wagon even if she wanted. However, she has consistently been against Starbuck (1040) which would have been hard to explain away after a Nahdia/midway misexile regardless.


~

Nahdia - They lobbied for skitts votes at a time where Nahdia/skitts were still the wagons, but also said that midway was a viable alternative. After midway acquired 4 votes from {Dunnstral, Starbuck, beeboy, Clover Ebi}, they joined as a 5th (they hadn’t made any posts between the vote and the skitts/midway post). They continued to make negatives comments/sort of shades towards midway (1252, 1285, 1296) as the day progressed. No mention of Star really since suggesting midway as far as i can tell. Oh there’s one actually -- they laugh at Tuxes’ point against Star saying that her catchup being extended could be scummy. I agree with Nahdia here actually

Tonally I’ve leaned town on Nahdia ever since they reentered the thread drunk a while back. Nahdia says that Star’s catchup was unremarkable and agrees that catchups are easy to fake (back at 1135). They scumread votato early and say they’re willing to vote Star if needed.

Their final post is at Star’s L-2, when Clover left the midway wagon for Star -- they argue that midway can’t really justify attacking Star since he had been expressing a TR on votato. Fair enough.

Overall I can believe Nahdia potentially being scum but also they did have the history of scumreading votato -- I am inclined to think that scum would have jumped ship and attacked Star once it seemed inevitable (page 52, like beeboy did). My independent townlean on Nahdia makes me lean against it being them as well

~

Dunn - He vehemently argued for midway’s exile all the way up until “E-1”ing Star. He did have votato/Star as his second scumread prior.

Dunn has been pretty disengaged with the game. I suppose it’s possible he didn’t intend to kill Starbucks with his vote, given that she (I assume) would have claimed watcher, which then could have caused the wagon to pivot back to midway. Still, he shut this down COMPLETELY by offing her. He also had votato/Star as his second choice for the exile which is consistent

However, if he believed that was an actual E-1, this could have been a distancing move, sure, because then Star might have gotten out of it with the claim. In fact, there was probably enough momentum on midway that it could have easily shifted back. And Dunn would have been totally justified in doing so.

Still I lean against it as that’s much more complicated -- I lean towards the more obvious answer that town!Dunn wasn’t paying attention, since if that is his mate on the line, he’d have paid more attention to the votes.

~

Beeboy - He was second to vote midway, as Nahdia suggested we powerwagon him. After Lilith/Tux insisted on Starbuck, he voted Star. He recalled reasons to vote for midway and lobbied for Clover/Starbuck to help him lynch beeboy. After Kanna and Skitts make the vote + comments that ended up sealing the wagon, beeboy cast the E-1 on Star.

After Nahdia suggested a powerwagon on mid, Beeboy clarifies that he is willing to vote Star, but feels they won’t be exiled “as they've been a topic for a very long period of time.” I feel this is somewhat weak reasoning for not voting Star but at the same time, i was townleaning Star earlier as a reason of the Tux 1v1.

Beeboy’s case on midway (1181) comes after Dunn, Clover, and Star all express the desire to exile midway after his vote on Star. Again -- midway is town, but I think scum could come up with justifiable ways to misexile him. Beeboy mentions that midway changed opinions at complete reason in a different game (getting him killed), but this game he’s sticking tunneled on Dunn to avoid getting himself killed. i would argue that midway has not put much towards not getting himself killed this game, either.

[5] midwaybear: Dunnstral, Starbuck, beeboy, Clover Ebi, Nahdia

I think there was almost certainly scum pushing for midway to be killed, it was a perfect counterwagon. However, beeboy’s voting pattern is almost like too blatant-- check 1181. He literally asks Star (along with beeboy) if we can get momentum for a midway wagon.

~

Drusilla - She was absent for the midway/Starbuck wagons. Their last post expresses a suspicion of Kanna.

I don’t have a read on drusilla and sadly there’s no wagon analysis from her for me to examine. Via PoE and her latest suspicion being Kanna, her odds are higher to be scum, though. I would not be surprised at any flip from her, though, because skitts and another player (?) if i recall have been adamant she is town.

~

Raven - She initially considered votato to be scummy but turned around upon Star’s catchup. She stuck to the skitts wagon.

In 1026, Raven questions Skitts why Star is a viable counterwagon, as she doesn’t find Star scummy. Additionally in 1029, she expresses a suspicion/dislike that lilith/skitts are tagteaming (don’t like this much).

Raven keeps discussing the Nahdia/Raven debate in 1069 despite skitts seeming like she’s very uninterested at this point in 1067. Raven’s 1072 sticks out to me a bit -- She sort of agrees with Star that skitts/lilith’s posting styles are NAI, but makes sure to include that it wasn’t bothering her. It’s like halfway to agreeing with Star but not quite.

Now contrast this with Nahdia’s response (1071) to the same comment: Nahdia gives what i think is the correct interpretation of lilith’s claim about her meta. “i mean lilith isn't say she would do things different as scum. she's saying she literally could not do what she is doing rn if she were scum.” I think this is a much more fair evaluation of lilith -- Starbuck was HEAVILY shading lilith for the posting style thing and while Nahdia gave what i think was the right answer, Raven more just chimed in that she agrees posting style is NAI.

In 1164, Raven asks Star several questions about her current stances. She says that she doesn’t like compromise wagons much but leaves it at that with regards to the Star wagon. Raven consistently sort of wants to steer away from the wagons in skitts/Nahdia swapping, even in 1164 where she questions Starbuck for a discrepancy.

Tldr - Raven has made posts not really townreading Star but also questioning the wagon choice on her (1026 & 1062), agreeing with Star on lilith/skitts not being townie via posting (1061 & 1072), and expressedthat she doesn't want a compromise wagon, but not mentioning names (1164)

~~~~~~~~~

(Basically I went full tryhard mode which is decently indicative of my scum game)

Also i left off the "0" in skitts in my reads for a reason but i'll explain that later probably

I was prepared for a long haul since we accidentally got our traitor killed but apparently that was pointless

I am 100% not scum and I can prove it, because I share a PT with another claimed ww. My PT partner is afraid we’ll get NK’d if we out each other.

[Raven Branwen]

EVERYONE. I HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT. I AM A WW FACTIONAL COP. NAHDIA IS ALIGNED WITH THE MAFIA. VOTE: Nahdia

I was right on you, you were my strongest tr with good reason, so Skitter was right then? I really was pocketed.

VOTE: Nahdia

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: Kanna

Why? she just claimed cop.

[Raven Branwen]

Vote nahdia and trust me. There’s no reason for me to lie about this

Kanna is town. Without outing my main, I have meta on her. Other than my presumed mason buddy, she has been my strongest tr since the game started.

[Raven Branwen]

Alrighty,

I got rolecopped.

Same claim; skitter is a werewolf.

What? @Kanna are you an alignment or role cop? *confuzzled*

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: kanna

What does that mean nahdia?

I mean i got rolecopped, they saw I'm a factional cop, and they quick guilted me to get me lynched.

I am so confused...

UNVOTE:

UNVOTE:

I don’t know what to think.

[Raven Branwen]

And Kanna did you ask what result you would get if you targeted yourself with your alignment cop?

I’m a factional cop with the description of “you can target someone and you’ll find out exactly what faction they’re apart of.” I thought this meant multiball. Nahdia came up straight mafia

So not ww.

VOTE: Nahdia

[Raven Branwen]

My PT partner is afraid we’ll get NK’d if we out each other.

i didn't actually say that
i'm also not sure raven is aware that i already claimed us in thread ... i posted that i did in the pt :shrug:

Oh, still not caught up. Yes, can confirm, Skitter is 100% my mason buddy. *smdh* @MT.

[Raven Branwen]

Kanna has been my strongest tr out of the gate, only Skitter is stronger for obvious reasons. Thank God, she didn’t get voted out. I would have been devastated knowing what I know now.

[Raven Branwen]

Kanna has been my strongest tr out of the gate, only Skitter is stronger for obvious reasons. Thank God, she didn’t get voted out. I would have been devastated knowing what I know now.

i don't understand what is happening here. did you think you were town yesterday?

No, yesterday I believed I had rolled scum with Skitter and we were trying to figure out in our PT, whether or not we were aligned with Star or if this was multiball.

Then Skitter was saying we were masons and I was in total shock.

[Raven Branwen]

Today, you will push me off this cliff. I of course know that. I've even decided spot I'm going to land. I will also attempt a flip. But insofar as the game of mafia is about pitting an informed minority against an uninformed majority, I must protest: I am I am not, in fact, informed. At least, not entirely. There are still unanswered questions here. I advise strongly that all of you, my supposed enemies and my so-called allies, keep your wits about you. Trust no one. Not even yourselves.

Why would Kanna lie? I’ve seen her play scum and it’s 180 degrees different than here. Besides who in their right mind would fake a guilty on a slot she was tr yesterday?

[Raven Branwen]

No, yesterday I believed I had rolled scum with Skitter and we were trying to figure out in our PT, whether or not we were aligned with Star or if this was multiball.

then what is the relevance of your townread of kanna? who one would assume also thought she had rolled scum?

We rolled werewolves not mafia, so we thought this might be multiball. Skitter really did think Nahdia was scum in our PT. I thought the multiball theory was wrong until I saw the Star flip, the, we both thought she flipped scum.

[Raven Branwen]

then what is the relevance of your townread of kanna? who one would assume also thought she had rolled scum?

and you were mafia who thought you had made a good townread? none of this makes sense to me.

We wrongly thought we were scum and that is was possibly multiball, so we were still trying to make reads.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven is a werewolf, nice.

Who almost got my mason buddy executed.

[Raven Branwen]

Why would Kanna lie? I’ve seen her play scum and it’s 180 degrees different than here. Besides who in their right mind would fake a guilty on a slot she was tr yesterday?

i do not believe she is lying but she would have thought she was in a two-person team yesterday just like you supposedly did, right? so why would her play have been 180 degrees different?

Like I said, I have meta on her. I’ve seen her town and scum game. I also believe her claim and I thought she was super obvtown from the getgo.

[Raven Branwen]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend is an ancient proverb which suggests that two parties can or should work together against a common enemy. The earliest known expression of this concept is found in a Sanskrit treatise on statecraft, the Arthashastra, which dates to around the 4th century BC, while the first recorded use of the current English version came in 1884.

???

Why are you posting this?

[Raven Branwen]

Like I said, I have meta on her. I’ve seen her town and scum game. I also believe her claim and I thought she was super obvtown from the getgo.

right but her claim is werewolf. so she thought she was a werewolf in a multiball game. which you are also claiming was your thought process. so do you think you were super obvtown from the getgo as well?

Obviously not, I honestly thought I had rolled scum with Skitter and I was bummed because we had no NAs or special powers and thought the only shot in hell in winning this thing was for us to hard distance each other.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven is a werewolf, nice.

I owe you a apology, because based on the facts that you were aware of at the time, your reasoning actually made sense.

Can you just imagine if Skitter had flipped, I can’t see anyway I would have avoided being mislynched.

Me: Skitter and I are masons.

She would totally confirm this, unfortunately she can’t since I helped kill her.

Town: Cool story bruh, let’s kill this with fire.

Town coming at me with pitchforks screaming: KILL RAVEN!

[Raven Branwen]

p.s.: You're not a mason

What do you mean? Of course I am. Skitter and I are both werewolves. How are we not masons?

[Raven Branwen]

Yeah I tried to tell her that too :shrug:

If we’re both werewolves, how are we not masons?

[Raven Branwen]

Well that would imply 5 masonries, which would be weird, no?

Well, we both thought we were scum yesterday and working together, so I know we’re the same alignment but yeah, obviously someone has to be lying.

@Kanna, what made you decide to investigate Nahdia? When did your read on her change?

Who did Nahdia claim was her partner? I think I missed it.

[Raven Branwen]

(I think she's ww on play, just to be very clear. I think mechanically we probably are not masons)

The specific way my role pm was worded made me think that, other than the obvious fact we were strategizing together.

[Raven Branwen]

(I think she's ww on play, just to be very clear. I think mechanically we probably are not masons)

The specific way my role pm was worded made me think that, other than the obvious fact we were strategizing together.

Hectic posted right in our PT we are werewolves, so this obviously can’t be the case with all of the claimed pairs but when the mod tells you you’re the same alignment, what other conclusion can you draw?

[Raven Branwen]

same, and it was very obvious you thought that, but given that there's apparently five groups of people that thought that, something smells fishy

tux claimed nahdia's partner

Unless you think the mod would actually lie to one of them, we don’t know what was posted in anyone’s PT but ours. I think it’s unlikely that two scum share the same PT, so Tux is probably mech town from that.

[Raven Branwen]

Tux hard tr you and was willing to vote Nahdia, so there’s the argument right there. He wouldn’t have been willing to vote her, if Hected posted that they were the same alignment.

@Tux, did the mod post in your PT that you were werewolves?

[Raven Branwen]

Tux hard tr you and was willing to vote Nahdia, so there’s the argument right there. He wouldn’t have been willing to vote her, if Hected posted that they were the same alignment.

@Tux, did the mod post in your PT that you were werewolves?

I think if we logically assume that Tux is likely town because Hectic probably wouldn’t put two scum in the same PT, than I think this is a good place to start.

[Raven Branwen]

@Kanna, what made you decide to investigate Nahdia? When did your read on her change?

morning and i thought starbuck was *our* traitor and was crumbing to us here:

Let's see here, I need to take a look closer at a few folks.....

So far I've sorted

Townish
Morning Tweet
Kanna
beeboy
Raven Branwen
Clover Ebi

so we took a gamble that we could have another one (nahdia) because they was townreading us too. also they were possibly on the chopping block today with pushing the counterwagon yesterday and we needed to know if we should save them. very much right for the wrong reasons, sorry nahdia.

I thought the same thing about Star and asked Hectic why she didn’t have access to our PT.

[Raven Branwen]

You'd think if mafia got both of their partners killed they'd know they were doing today, though. They had an entire night to discuss things - why would the pairings change things?

Also, if you're right, who does that imply as scum? Tux?

Do you think it likely that the mod would put two scum in the same PT? Unlikely, Nahdia being almost certainly scum, probably means Tux is town.

[Raven Branwen]

@Kanna, what made you decide to investigate Nahdia? When did your read on her change?

morning and i thought starbuck was *our* traitor and was crumbing to us here:

Let's see here, I need to take a look closer at a few folks.....

So far I've sorted

Townish
Morning Tweet
Kanna
beeboy
Raven Branwen
Clover Ebi

so we took a gamble that we could have another one (nahdia) because they was townreading us too. also they were possibly on the chopping block today with pushing the counterwagon yesterday and we needed to know if we should save them. very much right for the wrong reasons, sorry nahdia.

I thought the same thing about Star and asked Hectic why she didn’t have access to our PT.

I think this is actually Star’s trs and I think it’s a good list. if we add Skitter and Tux to that list, who does that leave?

Can someone do a list of all of the claimed ww pairs?

I think Skitter and I are actually masons based on both the wording of my role pm and Hectic posting right in our PT that we’re werewolves but even if that weren’t the case, she’s been working with me the entire game. Tux mainly for mech reasons.

[Raven Branwen]

Unless they're lying about being in the same pt

But if they really are in the same pt, I'd guess that Tux is a wolf

We have MWB who is claiming to be a lone wolf and no one else is claiming to be in a PT with Tux. So, did Hectic call both Hectic and Nahdia werewolves too and did both of their role pms suggest that they were the same alignment? If true than A). why would he do that and B). I guess we’re actually not masons then. :/. Skitter is still town regardless, so I’m not worried but it would have been really cool to have been masons.

[Raven Branwen]

Star likely thought she was anti-town when she made that list

Anyone on that list you think isn’t likely to be town?

[Raven Branwen]

drusilla -

clover obi

?

nahdia

-

tuxedo mask
morning tweet - kanna

dunnstral -

beeboy

?

skitter - raven branwen

midwaybear

yes?

@Kanna, what is your read on Drusilla?

I have no idea whether or not we’re looking at a two or three person scumteam but rn, I am the most suspicious of Dru but having no meta on her, I will give precedence to Kanna on this.

@Drusilla, what are you reads outside of yesterday positioning Bee/Kanna/Skitter as the scumteam?

[Raven Branwen]

I think Skitter and I are actually masons based on both the wording of my role pm and Hectic posting right in our PT that we’re werewolves but even if that weren’t the case, she’s been working with me the entire game. Tux mainly for mech reasons.

This seem familiar?

yes absolutely.

we were told we "forgot" how to nightkill, so i thought maybe we would remember it at some point?

Nahdia is mafia and they had access to the flavour we got as well. It seems that either A.) Nahdia was paired with star or lilith and they were tricked into thinking it was a "masonry" too, or B.) Nahdia and Tux are indeed paired and they still had access to the exact flavour somehow. Tux can be town in that scenario, but that would mean he too thought it was a masonry from the wording

Regardless I'm sure you're a wolf though so doesn't really matter

If Nahdia was paired with Tux, then how could she also have been paired with either Star or Lillith? I think it extremely unlikely that Lillith and Star were paired. Maybe they were also lone wolves, that is of course assuming that MWB is town but there could conceivably be 3 unpaired slots. That’s what I’m thinking based off of Star/Lillith interactions.

So, I obviously already know I’m voting Nahdia but I don’t want to rush the day, so we can hopefully figure out her partner(s). I think it noteworthy that Dru was basing her sr on they’re being a 3 person scumteam but then Lillith thought that as well, so NIA.

[Raven Branwen]

was kinda hoping someone would react to my first post but i guess you all just don't care about me. i see how it is.

just gonna say this from the top and maybe ill do better sticking to it: im going to be making an effort to limit the hours in which im an active participant in this game. i enjoy mafia a lot but i also find it exhausting when im constantly thinking about it which leads to apathy. please do me a big favor and yell at me if you notice im posting in the thread all throughout the day. i will be happier and honestly probably better/more engaged in this game if i can practice a little restraint.

why share this? i understand the logic of holding yourself to that but do you have an expectation of others actually discouraging you from posting throughout the day?

additionally, what sort of reactions were you hoping for?

whoops

i guess maybe it's not an entirely reasonable expectation for others to tell me to be less active now that you put it like that. but it would be nice.
wasn't any specific reaction i was looking for. i guess just curious if people would conjure reasons for it being AI

Possible associatives? Yes, it’s kind of flimsy but I could see myself making this kind of post to a buddy. Also, neither has given any read on each other.

[Raven Branwen]

Star likely thought she was anti-town when she made that list

Anyone on that list you think isn’t likely to be town?

Clover Ebi

Why?

[Raven Branwen]

@Drusilla, what are you reads outside of yesterday positioning Bee/Kanna/Skitter as the scumteam?

Again, they thought they were anti-town yesterday

Who are you referring to Dru or Bee/Kanna/Skitter? Dru has given no reads on anyone else in the game afaik.

[Raven Branwen]

I got light town pings from beeboy because of the frustration because it seemed real to me. In the game I've played with beeboy before he was cool as a cucumber. Do you think he's likely to fake this anger because it's something 'town' him most do as scum? I suppose you could make an argument for saying beeboy wouldn't get mad at scum but the main problem I have is the pretense that he's faking this and that's just not how I took it.

maybe i should reframe. it's not so much that beeboy is faking it as i have a feeling it's not how town!beeboy would react there. the aggression can be both real and also scummy. i maintain the "I see things clearly other people arent" is out of place tho.

caught up, kinda

votato talking about townblocks all the time feels like buddiyng. not to mention admits he's apathetic as town and has the second-highest posts?
midwaybear gives all kinds of thoughts/analysis and then says they have no reads in 355.

morning tweet seems actually engaged in sorting players.
to answer her question on tux: i did say i thought his entrance was a reach i think? but looking back, it get the feeling scum would be less likely to enter on something so.. elaborate?

Clover really doesn’t sound like a Nahdia buddy here.

[Raven Branwen]

have literally already talked about this!

to answer her question on tux: i did say i thought his entrance was a reach i think? but looking back, it get the feeling scum would be less likely to enter on something so.. elaborate?

Nahdia sharing a PT with Tux, makes kind of sense that she would try to buddy him.

[Raven Branwen]

i mean, to be clear, scum could enter with something like that. but i dont think it's indicative in the same way what i noticed beeboy was doing is. so that's what i focused on.

my reads are, in fact, surface level. that doesn't make them also not accurate statements that can indicate scum. i'm looking for scum motivation, and it's there in those posts i point out.

it's just more like ... there's a lot of things that's taken place itt
and i dont' inherently disagree that you've made valid points

my problem is more that out of everythiing that's happened those are the things you chose to comment on? it just feels really shallow and like vague surface-level observations that you've thrown out to make people look bad than actually like you're using these things to sort people. these observations don't seem to be going anywhere and given the lack of a broader scumreads they feel disjointed if that makes sense

i mean i see what you're saying here skitter. but it's day 1, there's no mechanical foothold in this game, and it's a bigger table by my standards. im gonna plead with you not to read too far into my disengagement. what do you want me to comment on?

Skitter 100% never a Nahdia buddy, even if I didn’t already know that. Buddies never talk to each other like this.

[Raven Branwen]

"caught" is relative. the point stands.

morningtweet is town, midwaybear is scum(?). dunnstral is scum.

If Titus were in this game, she would probably invoke the rule of the 3. MT is obviously the town if this is the case and if there’s only one. So, if I’m either wrong on Dru and/or there’s 3 scum not 2, this might possibly be noteworthy.

[Raven Branwen]

i do not know what to make of drusilla. similar to skitter, i think their indexing on partner reads is odd. but perhaps that is in fact The MEta. beeboy made a point when talking about clover using recent knowledge. which drusilla did in 818 and it gave me pause, since because i was kind of going in predisposed to find her scummy that pause is moreso? that was something. but i dont like how she seems to just use me being scum as a baseline assumption without, justifying it? like, to read beeboy or kanna as partners.

MORNING TWEEET.

Maybe I’m wrong on Dru?

[Raven Branwen]

we're both town, this game. your vote wounds me, but i will survive.

i see you townread skitter. but most of your spoiler tag on skitter is actually discussing me. my ego is stroked, but a scumread on me, town!skitter does not make.

that is uncharitable... i am only pushing one of those slots!

MT definitely not a Nahdia buddy.

[Raven Branwen]

reading isnt fun, beeboy. this is deathly serious.

what kind of reads do you want? i looked at drusilla, who you voted, and found the thing that gavem e pause. which i said. did you notice that?

Good bee is also a werewolf.

Nahdia ISO spews Skitter, MT and beeboy town.

I mean werewolf obviously.

[Raven Branwen]

I dunno. maybe but no one else is claiming to be partners with either Nahdia or Tux, so without a cc, I think it’s more likely he isn’t lying. As Dunn correctly pointed out, all of the werewolves were wrongly playing their scimgames. I initially tr Clover because I also typically have too many trs on D1 but now I recall that in a recent game I played with him, he had several detailed readslists, so my Clover tr might have been premature.

I have a bit of a townlean on Dunn for the way he kept correcting me. It was very clearly logically based and agreeing with my readslist minus Clover sounds like town!Dunn to me.

What gives me pause about MWB is his consistent tr on Star/votato. He stayed on Dunn eventhough Star was trying to get him executed and the fact that Nahdia jumped on him, makes me think he might actually be telling the truth about being a lone werewolf.

So, my current PoE other than of course Nahdia is Dru/Clover and outside chance of MWB.

Raven
Skitter
Kanna
Morning Tweet
beeboy
Tux (for mech reasons)
Dunn
MWB
Clover/Dru
Nahdia

[Raven Branwen]

Well i mean if they were paired with Star and lilith, no one could call Tux out on this lie.

But if Nahdia and Tux are truthfully in a hood together, then that makes me think Tux is town since Nahdia clearly had access to the wolf flavour and why would it be there if there werent a wolf in the hood to trick? Suppose it could be Nahdia + Clover/Dru then

That’s a good point and why I don’t have him higher on my list, because I’m mainly tr him for mech reasons - claiming to be Nahdia’s partner.

It’s not typical for Clover not to have reads but I’m still way more suspicious about Dru having given no reads on anyone else in the game other than Kanna/bee/Skitter and no trs. I also think that Dru looked more like a Nahdia buddy than Clover. One thing in Dru’s favour was being the first one to claim werewolf. I will re-ISO Nahdia tomorrow but I was never really a fan of her Kanna push but if Kanna thinks she’s town, I’ll trust that read over mine but I think it’s really weird that she has given no reads on anyone else in the game. It’s also possible Clover didn’t give reads because like the rest of us, he also wrongly thought he was scum. Skitter, bee and you are spewed as not-Nahdia buddies, despite my other reasons for tr your slots.

So my confident werewolf core is Skitter/Kanna/you/beeboy.

[Raven Branwen]

Well i mean if they were paired with Star and lilith, no one could call Tux out on this lie.

But if Nahdia and Tux are truthfully in a hood together, then that makes me think Tux is town since Nahdia clearly had access to the wolf flavour and why would it be there if there werent a wolf in the hood to trick? Suppose it could be Nahdia + Clover/Dru then

That’s a good point and why I don’t have him higher on my list, because I’m mainly tr him for mech reasons - claiming to be Nahdia’s partner.

It’s not typical for Clover not to have reads but I’m still way more suspicious about Dru having given no reads on anyone else in the game other than Kanna/bee/Skitter and no trs. I also think that Dru looked more like a Nahdia buddy than Clover. One thing in Dru’s favour was being the first one to claim werewolf. I will re-ISO Nahdia tomorrow but I was never really a fan of DRU’s Kanna push but if Kanna thinks she’s town, I’ll trust that read over mine but I think it’s really weird that she has given no reads on anyone else in the game. It’s also possible Clover didn’t give reads because like the rest of us, he also wrongly thought he was scum. Skitter, bee and you are spewed as not-Nahdia buddies, despite my other reasons for tr your slots.

So my confident werewolf core is Skitter/Kanna/you/beeboy.

[Raven Branwen]

@Dru, valid point on Tux, I didn’t take into account that Nahdia or Tux could have possibly been paired with Star/Lillith and those would be the only possibilities. Nahdia/Lillith extremely unlikely to have been paired. Same goes for Tux/Star, so he’s no longer mech clear for claiming Nahdia as a partner.

@Clover, why did you address your post to me, when it’s Dunn who is the one who strongly suspects you the most?

Anyway, I trust Kanna, so if she is confident on Dru town, that’s good enough for me.

And LMAO that Dru thinks thinks there’s still a world I flip scum here. XD

[Raven Branwen]

yeah it just seems like they're trying to communicate with someone who isn't in a pt with them
but yeah

VOTE: nahdia

i'm not sure what the vote is at

I'm really finding the story/narrative that you're putting out to be quite fascinating!

Yeah totally, so either Tux is ww and she’s sending messages to her buddy or she could be scum with Tux and someone else. She’s clearly not just lolcatting.

[Raven Branwen]

I have day talk in my werewolf factional PT, feel like the mafia have it as well.
Anyway yeah just end the day.

Maybe Nahdia isnt with the other two in the maf chat, like a traitor. Or mafia has a traitor and they're talking to that player. anything is possible

although yeah trying to communicate would be super risky

That would make the most sense, if scum has daytalk.

@Clover, what do you think about Dunn’s case? Why don’t you seem shocked to find out ww /= scum?

Can someone do an ISO check on Lillith to see if she and Tux look possibly allogned or not? Same with Star with Nahdia?

[Raven Branwen]

I’ll doc you.

If both Kanna and MWB are both alive tomorrow, then MWB is probably town for this.

[Raven Branwen]

I wanna know how people feel about Raven/Nahdia now that Nahdia is outted. It looks pretty bad to me

...

Wait Skitter don't look at me like that please I would've flipped with you I promise

I wanna know how people feel about Raven/Nahdia now that Nahdia is outted. It looks pretty bad to me

Tux/Mid/Raven hm

You tr me when I thought I was scum and now that I know I’m a ww, you sr me? I find this hilarious.

[Raven Branwen]

Keep in mind if Tux is town, then Nahdia can be partners with any of the groups that are heavily vouching for each other being wolves. Since they'd be working together, it makes sense that they'd affirm heavily that the other is a wolf, no?

Yeah. I know a good way to sort Clover. I have meta on him under a different account.

@Clover, can you give us a detailed ordered readslist? Thanks.

@MWB, why did you say you would doc Kanna publically? Why not just do it privately? This way you put a target on your back if you’re town, and then scum will probably just find a different target.

Had you not said anything until tomorrow, we might have had a no kill tonight.

[Raven Branwen]

What have you done!?

The Mayor runs to the edge of the cliff, aghast.
But then, something reaches over from below...

Spoiler:

A shadowy hand reaches past the Mayor and darts towards Kanna, wrapping its tendrils around her.
The villagers barely have any time to react as the hand yanks Kanna away and into the abyss below.

Kanna can only scream on the way down, she was a...

Spoiler:

Werewolf Faction Cop

How? @MWB, didn’t you say you would doc her?

[Raven Branwen]

?

it confirms the world as chara mafia if they kill me because a pair would be trapped, because they cannot push me and clover ebi if i am dead, leaving only skitter/raven and beeboy/dunnstral.

Was it you or Clover Ebi?

it was chara.

Chara, I’m sad you’re scum here. :/

[Raven Branwen]

i'm confused. what do you mean by a pair being trapped? why does you dying clear clover?
i don't follow

so if chara was a werewolf, we were still looking for a pair because of yesterday. thus a pair cannot kill me, because they would be dead to poe. so they kill kanna, because chara is caught either way.

I expected to be MT or MWB due to the doc claim.

[Raven Branwen]

when you say 'pair' you mean 'one member of a non-chara pair, who would then implicate both themselves and their partner'?

but if we assume 3 scum adn we know that chara is one that logic doesn't really hold because they'd be implicating their town/ww partner ... which for them is a good thing

no i mean yesterday we had two possible worlds.

chara is a werewolf - we are looking for a different claimed pair.
chara is mafia - we are looking for one mafia in the other pairs or midwaybear.

so killing me is chara caught anyway, not that he wasn't always the elimination to me today to figure out which world we were in, but yeah.

How are they not mafia if they visited Kanna? Am I missing something?

[Raven Branwen]

I think there’s probably one mafia in the other pair and tux and Nandi were just pretending to be in the same pt.

Yeah, I think that’s pretty freaking obvious now.

[Raven Branwen]

your death doesn't exonorate clover and we wouldn't know which pair it was either. like yes there has to be scum in a pair/midway but we thought that yesterday anyways

your death doesn't exonorate clover and we wouldn't know which pair it was either. like yes there has to be scum in a pair/midway but we thought that yesterday anyways

i think clover is the most likely mafia. my death if chara was a werewolf would exonerate clover and midwaybear. thus killing me means chara is mafia, just the same as leaving me alive to red check him did.

Town!Clover doesn’t have any trouble making detailed readslist with logical reasoning behind it, that was the main thing that pinged me when Dunn made his case on him.

[Raven Branwen]

This game is too powerful given every claim can be swapped with your neighbor, boiling every single kill down to a 50/50 outside the original watcher Starbuck.

If I were mafia I'd be inclined to shoot MT instead of Kanna

Not sure what weight that holds

I wasn’t expecting Kanna to die after MWB said he would doc her. Scum was probably pretty desperate and was apparently willing to take that chance.

[Raven Branwen]

then there's some sort of fundemental communication block here
we're kinda assuming the possibility of mixed pairs

so i don't get why 'town!dru' -> 'town!clover'.

like it's not an inherently obvious conclusion to me

yes there are mixed pairs. lilith and starbuck are unlikely to have been originally paired. thus it is very likely one of the claimed pairs was originally paired with lilith/starbuck. so if chara was a werewolf, we'd still be looking for a full pair. so killing me confirms midwaybear because he's solo and clover ebi, because i'd be dead. but since chara is mafia, this doesn't apply.

But you said they visited Kanna.

[Raven Branwen]

I’ll doc you.

If both Kanna and MWB are both alive tomorrow, then MWB is probably town for this.

@MWB, why did you say you would doc Kanna publically? Why not just do it privately? This way you put a target on your back if you’re town, and then scum will probably just find a different target.

Had you not said anything until tomorrow, we might have had a no kill tonight.

did you actually believe that midwaybear was a doctor?

I wasn’t sure if he was an actual doc or a vt werewolf trying to bait the NK. Either way, I did not expect Kanna to die.

[Raven Branwen]

i'm a werewolf.
i also have access to a hood with Nahdia and Tuxedo.

You’re the only player to claim 3 partners. Seems fishy to me, considering MWB is the only one unpaired.

[Raven Branwen]

hi skitter!
it's nice to see you anyway!

Bizarre reaction.

Dru said you were the only one to visit Kanna. Why would she lie? Also, Tux’s whole weird Lillith scumslip nonsense makes a lot more sense now.

[Raven Branwen]

i don't know if i have the breathing room to town this slot up. but i'd like to figure out if drusilla's scum or town before i go, at least. but i don't think it's worth it for scum to fake a guilty on my slot.

How can both you and Dru be telling the truth here? One of you has to be lying and I don’t think it’s Dru.

I plan to vote you, because I can’t see how you’re not confiscum here.

[Raven Branwen]

2) Why shouldn't I think that?
3) The way he played the early game felt really scummy to me. Along with the fact me and Dru noted that Tux probably slipped a few times. We just didn't push it because fear of getting night killed when we thought the game was multiball but Tux has always been a scumread of mine.

2. i mean i guess between dru/chara why do you think dru is telling the truth? like i'm not sure i have a reason to doubt the claim but the circumstances are a bit weird (like why is she even alive to be able to give this is confusing me) so the fact that you don't have any doubt i'm finding a bit strange
3. can you give some examples of tux slipping?

2) I'm positive that Drusilla is telling the truth skitter you should trust me on this. Look at the most likely option and it starts making a ton of sense.
3) Tux made a post to Lilith about there being 2 scum that me and Dru instantly caught onto and figured it was a slip, but we couldn't push it for obvious reasons.

That was the thing that bothered me most about Tux and why I removed him from my town pile. I thought it could also have something to do with him being a newb but scum obviously makes way more sense. I’m also not liking that Chara keeps claiming Dru isn’t lying because if I’m town!Chara being wrongly accused of being the only one to visit town!Kanna who is now dead, I’d be screaming bloody murder at someone trying to obviously frame me but no they’re totally chill and not even remotely suspicious. This isn’t how town reacts in these circumstances.

[Raven Branwen]

*why she does this as town lying about having a guilty on you

so like if her result is wrong i'd think she's scum since i don't think town!you lies about visiting her either

maybe i'm jaded, but i think town makes a bad false guilty more often than scum fakes a guilty on a slot that was pretty votable.
unless she thought she was going to be the lynch going into today. is that likely?

No, because Kanna vouched for her. Why does she choose you to fake a guilty on? Didn’t you just say that she wasn’t faking that guilty?

[Raven Branwen]

I mean level 1 which is usually enough to win a game.


Level 1 mafia tells me the following:
Chara is flipping scum.
Scum shot Kanna because they didn't need to take the 50/50 on them which they did on you and Drusilla.

So the "worse" shot on Kanna was better since MT is last scum.

If that’s true, then that would be the second time this game I got pocketed. :/

[Raven Branwen]

I'm a player who likes thinking of future events. I also like to townread people until proven otherwise. The main reason I've seen to doubt Drusilla is a reason I myself brought up but almost no one commented on. Along with a Nahdia interaction. Regardless of my personal viewpoint on her is it not as simple as we lynch Chara and Drusilla if it's wrong?

Are you saying it's weird that I'm showing a bit of confidence? Well, this game is different. I can't play this game like I would normally it goes against my entire style because people were playing like werewolves and all of day 1 I was saying I couldn't find scumreads. I would have to restart the game all over again and feel even more useless than before. I'm not confident, in fact this is probably the least confident I've been in any mafia game. That's why I'm trying to rely on others than myself. Is that what feels different?

re:confidence, kinda?

This game has too much power and only me, dunnstral and skitter seem to be aware of that.
I rely on others frequently, although I find even if I trust someones reads I am not going to trust them or not question what is going on I guess? Before I concluded Raven was town I strongly though Skitter was town and sort of just let it happen.

Scum is between, You and MT. Everyone else I strongly think is town for a tell you disagree with which is basically large shifts between when they rolled scum and now.
I also just think it's unlikely scum wouldn't be paired with a PR because I seriously don't see how scum play around this level of power without near full setup knowledge which s till isn't enough. Not to mention Mid had the best reaction day start.

I think Drusilla could be scum because scum should have a ninja or a roleblocker, which makes me think the action was "allowed" to happen if I am wrong on my reads. But that is a giga tinfoil I am not sure I want to act on hence scum being between you and MT.

I won't go into the tone shift given I think that's just wrong/incorrect. There's no way MT doesn't kill there cop partner. So your poe is already incorrect from my point of view. I was starting to come around to Chara town due to things I cannot talk about, but a result is a result. You're not the only one who sees that the power is wacky but without all the answers its best to not question such a thing and look at things from a basic point of view. We have one scum in two slots that is the basics. You don't need to look at it from any other manner.

I don't think what you and skitter are doing is very productive and is pretty easy to fake.

Skitter may be good at scum but Meryl Streep has nothing to worry about. Skitter’s locktown. She doesn’t say the kinds of things she did to me in our PT if she’s scum, period!

[Raven Branwen]

i kinda think mt is town tho :/

@beeboy, why MT over anyone else on the playerlist? She was my 3rd strongest town after Skitter/Kanna.

[Raven Branwen]

is that likely?

no, your slot was very likely to be voted out today regardless of what dru did/said (barring her coming in with a guilty on someone else, i suppose)

if drus was aware of that, then yes, i don't like her being an auto lynch after me.

pedit: or i'm overcomplicating things. i just don't see the point in scum faking it. do you, Clover? assume i flip town, what about that play was useful for drus scum?

Why not? If you’re actually a ww, why wouldn’t you want her executed after you. I sure as hell would.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't think what you and skitter are doing is very productive and is pretty easy to fake.

i disagree about it being unproductive. but i do think it's shortsighted to declare that having the same mindset must mean you have the same alignment. (referring to beeboy's comment about skitter)

Skitter isn’t capable of faking what she did in our PT. Not even RC could pull that off.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't have the chops or power to vote who I think is scum so I know someone from my pair is on the block tomorrow but, I don't think either of us should be.
pedit: It isn't useful! You and I were the two most likely lynch options assuming no result came out today. But there's no reason for Dru to lie about it and I'm 100% positive she isn't.

Wait! How could you possibly KNOW this? How do you know the game won’t end today?

[Raven Branwen]

Am I allowed to role fish in the open or are we not at that stage yet?
Asking for a friend.

I’m not opposed to a mass claim if that’s what you’re driving at?

[Raven Branwen]

I don't have the chops or power to vote who I think is scum so I know someone from my pair is on the block tomorrow but, I don't think either of us should be.
pedit: It isn't useful! You and I were the two most likely lynch options assuming no result came out today. But there's no reason for Dru to lie about it and I'm 100% positive she isn't.

wait, why are you or drusilla on the chopping block tomorrow?

+1

[Raven Branwen]

I don't get how any of Skitter/Beeboy/Dunnstral have the pov they're trying to present with the logic that is on the table. I should probably mull on it a little

sorry :/ what part is confusing and i can try to explain how i came to my conclusions agian

If Chara flips scum who are you likely looking at

Same if they flip town please. This has a point to it I promise

Again, what makes you thing the game won’t end if Chara flips scum?

[Raven Branwen]

why does scum her fake a guilty on me knowing i'm going down anyway? either she did that for some reason, thinking there was a chance her (or her partner? but in that case the partner would claim) would be lynched over my slot. it's possible i guess, but i'd still rather properly examined rather than auto, at least.
or she's town and lied about it because she wanted me lynched, which i've seen happen enough times even though faking a guilty as town as a terrible idea.
there's also the third option of weird night-shenanigans, but i definitely didn't act last night so i don't know what it could be, given the flipped roles look pretty standard.

Why does she say as scum you’re the only visit on Kanna? Why do you tr that if you’re actually a ww?

[Raven Branwen]

Am I allowed to role fish in the open or are we not at that stage yet?
Asking for a friend.

please do. i think all the information on the table is good at this point.

Me and Dunnstral aren't VTs. Hbu fam?
@Skitter @Raven?

We’re vts. I already claimed that much yesterday.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't have the chops or power to vote who I think is scum so I know someone from my pair is on the block tomorrow but, I don't think either of us should be.
pedit: It isn't useful! You and I were the two most likely lynch options assuming no result came out today. But there's no reason for Dru to lie about it and I'm 100% positive she isn't.

wait, why are you or drusilla on the chopping block tomorrow?

Me: When the setup was revealed that we're all werewolves and not scum my tone didn't change because I was one of the few people who were genuinely scumhunting instead of playing like a werewolf so my tone didn't go from Scum-->town but Town--Town.
Drusilla: Nahdia defended her a bit and everyone else is more town.

but if i flip scum, why would you or especially drusilla ever be in danger?

@Clover, I find it really weird that you are so confident that the game won’t end with a Chara scumflip.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't get how any of Skitter/Beeboy/Dunnstral have the pov they're trying to present with the logic that is on the table. I should probably mull on it a little

sorry :/ what part is confusing and i can try to explain how i came to my conclusions agian

If Chara flips scum who are you likely looking at
Same if they flip town please. This has a point to it I promise

scum: midway, you
town: dru, you, then midway, and more distantly beeboy/dunn

why does scum her fake a guilty on me knowing i'm going down anyway? either she did that for some reason, thinking there was a chance her (or her partner? but in that case the partner would claim) would be lynched over my slot. it's possible i guess, but i'd still rather properly examined rather than auto, at least.
or she's town and lied about it because she wanted me lynched, which i've seen happen enough times even though faking a guilty as town as a terrible idea.
there's also the third option of weird night-shenanigans, but i definitely didn't act last night so i don't know what it could be, given the flipped roles look pretty standard.

i guess to me the simplest explanation is that you're just scum. like either town or scum her faking a guilty seems unlikely, so the simplest explanation seems most probable
i would have to re-evaluate if we don't live in that universe but like her faking a guilty as either alignment seems unlikely. i guess thinking about it i can see her doing it a bit more as town

Why MWB? I’m not seeing how he’s scum?

[Raven Branwen]

Scum could be Skitter, I don't think me being bad is out of the question.

No, she can’t fake what she said in our PT. Please, I’m not an idiot, I would sense if anything about what she said was even slightly off and there was nothing.

[Raven Branwen]

lol why MT?

Because, she was the most widely read ww player after Kanna.

[Raven Branwen]

I expected to be MT or MWB due to the doc claim.

it is very hard for me to believe that you thought it was likely midwaybear was a doctor.

I thought either it was true or he was a ww baiting the NK. Either way, I did not expect Kanna to be the NK, unless it actually is a 3 person scumteam and I’m wrong on him but I don’t really see the scum motivation for that fake doc claim.

[Raven Branwen]

And as I've been...trying to say. I was not playing like scum the entire game.

why does you playing like town D1 mean we should townread you now though?

Because if I was scum I would not be able to play my day 1 like I did.

Why would you think you were town with a ww role pm? Me and Skitter definitely didn’t.

[Raven Branwen]

Huh?

Why haven’t you yet done a detailed ordered readslist like you have in every game I’ve played with you where you were town?

[Raven Branwen]

your death doesn't exonorate clover and we wouldn't know which pair it was either. like yes there has to be scum in a pair/midway but we thought that yesterday anyways

your death doesn't exonorate clover and we wouldn't know which pair it was either. like yes there has to be scum in a pair/midway but we thought that yesterday anyways

i think clover is the most likely mafia. my death if chara was a werewolf would exonerate clover and midwaybear. thus killing me means chara is mafia, just the same as leaving me alive to red check him did.

Town!Clover doesn’t have any trouble making detailed readslist with logical reasoning behind it, that was the main thing that pinged me when Dunn made his case on him.

Sure I haven't made a reads list this game but if you look at my day 1 I think you'll see how it fits into my other games.

Okay, make one now then, go.

[Raven Branwen]

How the heck does town get a bodyguard, watcher, cop, and a backup for those?

But whatever-- we tried to cop Chara, obviously. Sad times.

I don’t understand the srs on you in any case. I think Dru is telling the truth and if game doesn’t end with Chara flip and Clover and Chara seem to be the only ones who seem to be confident on that, which I find odd.

[Raven Branwen]

I guarantee mafia were unphased by midways doctor claim. If town has 4 protectives, why even bother lol

Still kind of weird they shot Kanna. I almost feel like more experienced players would have shot me -- unless I'm crazy ?

well if you need me for anything lemme know I probably can't read the whole thing till later

Yeah, like I said. You were the next most widely tr player after Kanna and MWB assuming he’s town and they believed the doc claim but yeah I guess after Lillith’s flip, I can see why they might not.

[Raven Branwen]

I for one am highly anticipating Clovers claim

Chara and Clover are the only ones currently pinging me. Chara, because of their suspiciously chill reaction to Dru’s guilty and both them and Clover for seeming a little to confident that the game won’t end,

[Raven Branwen]

Does this look nicer than my current avatar?
I don't like changing my avatar very often but I've been rocking this off site for awhile.

Go for it.

[Raven Branwen]

Whatd I do to get read so highly as werewolf? Kanna and I had a blast together although I'm not sure we laid heavy on the associative tells.

I suppose.. if Chara is town I'd expect a full pair (Raven/skitts, beeboy/Dunn, Clover/drus) to be the remaining scum, which would not include me anymore (;﹏;)

However assuming Chara is scum then I suppose the remaining scum could be anyone regardless of groupings. But that would suggest not skitts/Raven and beeboy/Dunn since they are vouching for each other so hard, and Tux was trying to combat that. That leaves me/Midway/Clover/Drusilla and my opinion on who it is highly depends on Clovers claim

Skitter and me are lock wws. I seriously don’t understand how anyone could possibly think my reaction to finding out we were actually wws and not scum was faked.

[Raven Branwen]

Why are you asking this when the only game we've played together I can't talk about Raven

This is an alt. I played another game with you on a different account where you made several. I correctly initially hardtown read you in that but then later scum pushed you and I stupidly doubted my initial strong tr on you. Don’t out me, if you’ve figured it out.

[Raven Branwen]

Do you really think me making a reads list is AI for me? I feel like my thoughts have been pretty in the open that I haven't needed to give one

But why the resistance to making one? If it would help me to confidently tr you, why not just humour me anyway and just do it?

[Raven Branwen]

They did one of those day 1.
I don't think it's a town tell when he does it as scum.

It's just a playstyle deviation but this is an abnormal game state anyway since we have chain guilties.

It depends on his reasoning for making those reads. I’m way more concerned about his resistance to making one than the fact that he hasn’t yet.

[Raven Branwen]

I for one am highly anticipating Clovers claim

Chara and Clover are the only ones currently pinging me. Chara, because of their suspiciously chill reaction to Dru’s guilty and both them and Clover for seeming a little to confident that the game won’t end,

To be fair I'd be pretty surprised if there are only 2 scum. I agree Charas reaction is very.. odd

Why? I mean it’s obviously possible, Lillith thought so. I have meta on Chara and I’d be hella shocked if they were town here based off of their reactions. Their not wanting Dru executed after them, makes 0 sense to me.

[Raven Branwen]

I hate how everyone besides me and dru have fallen into the trap of this set up. It's so hard to play with people doing this. mmmm

Fallen into the trap? you've got my attention

Everyone hard townreads their neighbor for neighborhood reasons besides me and dru. Who have openly stated doubt on each other to some extent before this claim today where the lynch is obvious. Everyone besides us is hard townreading there neighbor/partner. Saying that there partner could never fake what was posting. But the reality of the situation is someone is getting fooled and their neighbor

did

fake it.

We need to understand that the scum in this setup had plenty of time to prepare and build up fake interactions in a neighborhood that make it very easy to pocket your unsuspecting partner. I don't think it's hard to say that everyone (besides maybe myself but I'll get into that in a moment) here can fake what they posted. It's the strategy scum wanted in the first place. What you should be looking at is in thread interactions not your own hood. That's the trap and everyone is in it.

One of the reasons I had dru as town post this is because of how much we

didn't

work together. Our pt the whole game was mostly silent. More on her end then mine. We weren't trying to do crazy theory or work as a team. We just kept our distance. But I don't want people to focus on this part I want people to see the others.

You don’t have access to Skitter’s comments, I do, She is never scum here.

[Raven Branwen]

Of course I'm confident the game won't end. I doubt this game is 11-2 that'd be so sad for the scum team considering what's flipped already.

Why? How are you so certain that it isn’t 2 scum? It’s a micro after all. Just to be clear, I’m not confident it isn’t. I think it’s extremely unlikely that Chara doesn’t flip scum and pretty much next to impossible that Skitter does.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't believe Raven thinks it's scummy that I'm assuming this game has 3 scum like, what? I'm just so confused
pedit: Got it.

Okay, then tell me why are you necessarily assuming that? Same question for MT.

[Raven Branwen]

11v2 where town gets a bodyguard, watcher, cop, and a backup for those vs. a 2 man scumteam where one is a vanilla goon? Feels hard to believe

Exactly. That’s why I think a mass claim - assuming game doesn’t end either today or tomorrow is a good idea, because if it’s more than 2 scum, then odds are it’s not likely a goon.

[Raven Branwen]

I can't take what you're saying to heart given everyone is saying that about there teammate Raven.

Fair enough but as someone who actually has had the experience of being pocketed by scum in a PT, I feel extremely confident I’m not wrong on Skitter. She genuinely thought Star flipped scum until she saw Lillith flip, then realized it didn’t make sense that wws were scum. I just don’t believe that was fake. Also, she was 100% working together with me on D1, when I thought we were scum. In fact, it was she who encouraged me to vote her, something I was super nervous about doing. IOW, she 100% had my back.

[Raven Branwen]

If everyone is saying that there neighbor is town you can't trust those claims because you come at a standstill so it makes every point about it moot.

What I’m saying is that I 100% trust my Skitter read and I seriously doubt anyone who had access to our PT wouldn’t townlock her.

[Raven Branwen]

Because 3 scum is the normal? Along with the fact that I doubt we have all these town roles when 1 of the mafia is a goon.

Not in a micro last time I checked but fair enough wrt to the second point. Anyway, is anyone seriously tr Chara at this point? I think it’s pretty damn obvious that Drew isn’t lying. Plus, I was actually in a game where scum actually made the same comment as Chara: not to autolynch their accuser post flip.

[Raven Branwen]

Of course I'm confident the game won't end. I doubt this game is 11-2 that'd be so sad for the scum team considering what's flipped already.

Why? How are you so certain that it isn’t 2 scum? It’s a micro after all. Just to be clear, I’m not confident it isn’t. I think it’s extremely unlikely that Chara doesn’t flip scum and pretty much next to impossible that Skitter does.

this is a mini. 1 more player and itd be a large

Oh, okay I feel stupid now.

[Raven Branwen]

Me making a reads list would make me feel stupid. I mean, I already feel pretty stupid this game but if you think it'll somehow prove me as town I'll do it. But I don't think I'm worried about being lynched

I really would if you don’t mind.

[Raven Branwen]

If everyone is saying that there neighbor is town you can't trust those claims because you come at a standstill so it makes every point about it moot.

What I’m saying is that I 100% trust my Skitter read and I seriously doubt anyone who had access to our PT wouldn’t townlock her.

I'm pretty sure you could replace Skitter with anyone else's name and that same statement would be made about their neighbor partner. It just doesn't work.

Do you have access to our PT? No, so stop doubting my read. I’m not that much of an idiot to get fooled here.

[Raven Branwen]

I'm not trying to upset you so clearly I'm doing something wrong. My apologizes I'll come back later

I understand that to anyone who doesn’t have access to our PT could logically make that assumption but as I am the only one who knows what’s posted in there, other than of course Skitter, I would literally bet the game on Skitter town. If Skitter were scum here, there would be something that didn’t sit right with me about her posting, something even slightly off and there is none. That’s why I’m so certain of this.

[Raven Branwen]

I can see where Clover is coming from. We have all decided we're not being tricked, leaving just Clovers hood. Clover as town would be pretty frustrated about this

That being said I dont see a world where Raven or skitts are scum, besides maybe them both being scum together but I heavily doubt that too. Raven just seems like a wolf to me, same with skitts -- both of their entrances yesterday point to this for me

Beeboy and Dunn have higher odds of being scum together faking being wolves together, sure. I would argue again that one cannot be scum without the other being scum, it just seems unlikely. And overall I dont really think theyre mafia anyway

Clover and Drusilla are kind of left on the outside. Dru has a guilty on Chara which sounds about right to me. So naturally everyone is assuming its Clover last mafia now. Which is possible. But a shame since I was wolf reading him based off the frustration yesterday and today. He said stuff yesterday I think that was getting misinterpreted and today sort of the same deal. I suppose frustration in of itself isnt inherently AI.

Theres also midway who is a player in this game. Probably a wolf player. He is definitely here

In the game I referenced town didn’t even claim an actual guilty on scum, they just hard scumread them and that player actually posted something along the lines of, if you want to lynch me it’s okay but don’t lynch them after my flip. Fun fact: I probably have one of the best long term memories on this site and I especially have an excellent memory for things scum has said. So, Chara pleading for Dru’s life post flip majorly pinged me.

I liked how he didn’t jump on Star eventhough he was the counterwagon and it looked like he was trying to save Kanna from being the NK but I don’t know anymore. While I would still feel a lot better if Clover made that readslist, it’s possible one of my trs could be wrong - OTHER than of course Skitter who based on all of the available info is locktown.

Other than Skitter, I don’t see why MT kills Kanna, so I highly doubt it’s her. Same with Dru.

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: Chara

L-2

Tell me when I should put them at E-1.

[Raven Branwen]

Both me and Skitter believed that Nahdia was sending cryptic messages to someone other than Tux, make of that what you will.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't get how any of Skitter/Beeboy/Dunnstral have the pov they're trying to present with the logic that is on the table. I should probably mull on it a little

sorry :/ what part is confusing and i can try to explain how i came to my conclusions agian

If Chara flips scum who are you likely looking at
Same if they flip town please. This has a point to it I promise

If they flip town it's you or druisilla. The latter being much more likely due to power role

If they flip mafia

it's not me, beeboy, mt, probably not skitter, we can work from there, anyone else?

I don't get beeboy saying it's mt because wouldn't mt shoot their cop partner night 1? That's the simplest answer

*Ahem*. I think you forgot someone.